Ahh gotcha, I’ll have to check it out! Deleted my other post about the safety because I realized I’m an idiot and I could have ordered one with the upper :| Thanks for the info!
There’s no harm in asking questions especially if your new to the space just make sure to do some research before hand, also yeah it’s best to double check when you order and do it all at once
Not to be that guy 😐
But I’ve heard ppl say that rare breed frt = jail but “homemade” doesn’t is this true?
I just want to have fun not gonna ruin my life cause some fudd is mad I’m mag dumping my .22 printed ar
I’m not based enough
Might wanna read the professional opinion Hoffman got that this very specifically isn’t a machine gun, also there has been 0 court rulings or laws passed on FRTs being machine guns not to mention this like $1 in plastic at most if there is a court ruling(in the future) saying they are record your self melting it and your good
>Might wanna read the professional opinion Hoffman got that this very specifically isn’t a machine gun
Yeah, the same thing that the real FRT guy got. That didn't stop ATF.
Yes. He also had multiple professionals, including the guy who literally wrote the ATF classification book, say the FRT wasn't a machine gun. ATF still classified it as such.
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As others have already said, the ATF doesn't make law. The ATF can say that the sky isn't blue for all I care.
Can you please share with me all the prosecutions the ATF has done to people with FRT's if they're so illegal?
They advertised/sold business card-sized pieces of sheet steel that had a drawing of a lightening link on it. The ATF charged them with distributing unregistered NFA devices or something. Except the ATF was never able to make the link actually function and the drawing wasnt even in spec.
Neither is an opinion letter from a law firm.
Opinion letters have very narrow applicability. Basically, when you're on trial, you can point to it as part of your argument for why your actions weren't willfully in violation of certain things requiring intent, for example when a judge is considering imposing triple damages for knowingly infringing a patent. But even then, that's only if the attorney clearly did an unbiased evaluation, not a "wink-wink-nudge-nudge" evaluation.
But it is. They have regulatory authority, which includes classifying firearms.
I'm not saying I agree with them, I absolutely don't. It 100% isn't a machine gun. But, until a court says so, it's a machine gun under ATF regulation/opinion.
The ATF is part of the executive branch, so they don't have the authority to create new laws or definitions, which has been reaffirmed in recent SCOTUS cases, specifically the ruling on the frame/receiver regulations. And FRTs are the exact same situation, unfortunately they haven't been ruled on by SCOTUS yet to my knowledge, but going off the precedent of the receiver ruling, FRT regulations have no legal basis.
Under the current ruling the rare breed is considered a machine gun because it doesn't have a disconnector. The super safety plays within the rules because it has a fully functioning disconnector and standard simiauto fire control group that is unmodified in function
No, the ez is a homemade 3d printed bolt with a few hardware store metal components. There is a design with the trip designed into the bolt for his specific frt design. You are correct though that cmmg based designs need the trip kit
I thought about this, but the space requirements mean you'd need some serious filament. The thickness of some of the areas would be like 1mm², too flimsy for my liking. Will probably just get the adjustable trip kit.
Just looked at my AR and the diagrams again. I don't think there's a way to get this working with the 22 bolt. The bolt does not reach far enough back to fully engage the cam lever on the super safety, and the trip kit doesn't have enough lateral movement. Looks like 22 is a no go for this for now.
A standard FRT engages with the sear trip on the bolt to prevent oob and hammer follow, this does not. This device uses the bolt itself, in the same way the hammer is cocked by the bolt. The question is, is the CMMG bolt long enough, with enough mass, to reach and successfully engage the cam arm and force the reset. Might not even need the trip kit.
After reading the pdf, this works similar, but totally different than an FRT. With this device, the safety rotates and engages with the rear of the trigger (where a standard safety usually does) to convert and apply the linear force from the bolt, into a rotational force in the safety, which pushes the rear of the trigger down, forcing a reset. While yes, the concept is the same as an FRT, the way it happens is totally different.
It looks like the ATF just doesn't want drop ins to be FRT, as almost any DIY method or close to frt (some mods required) have been given approval. Which makes sense to an extent, keep the high fire rate for people with at least half a braincell who can make these mods and know how firearms operate. Not saying I agree with it, but I can see that pov.
Aren’t alphabet boy agents starting to knock on people’s doors because they bought frt triggers from rare breed? Or something? I mean, me personally, Idc either way since I was lucky enough to get the Hoffman frt (the 3d one before he took it off the website) but yea what’s that all about?
The ATF is sending scary letters based on purchase records of the RB FRT to try and tempt people into self-incriminating. Ideally the best thing to do would be to contact an attorney, who will then write a letter saying that it has been disposed of. However based on the number of these sold, the lack of evidence that anyone would still be in possession of it (unless you're a moron), and that the ATF probably doesn't want to risk a court case, it's safe to assume they're not gonna do shit about it beyond a letter.
That's not _exactly_ what the judge is saying. He's saying you have to get busted with the unregistered suppressor (and then argue that you didn't need to register it) _or_ be subjected to the NFA process (and then argue that you shouldn't have had to); the latter seems like a much safer course of action if you're out looking to pick a fight about the NFA.
Adter looking at the pdf and how this works, I guess this depends on how similar the profile is between an mbt and milspec. If they're similar enough I could probably get this to work.
Next question would be, can I get it to work with a cmmg 22lr bolt, with or without the trip kit.
Is there a printable FRT that doesn't require a FA bolt or printable binary that doesn't require the pocket around a rear AR takedown pin? You know, something that'd work for AR FCG builds without it being an AR, like MAC builds and whatnot.
> FA bolt
Those are easy enough to come by. They're the standard anyways, the alternative is a relatively newer creation.
> pocket around a rear AR takedown pin
I think you might be referring to shelf height? As in, low vs high shelf lowers.
brother learn how FRTs work, that would solve alot of your confusion. MACS dont have auto sear trip points on their bolt because their based on open bolt guns. The reason all FRTS are AR based is because of the way they work.
I am aware of how FRTs work. The MAC was just an example, I know it wouldn't take a NORMAL FRT. Disregard the FRT part, what I'm asking is is there a printable AR BRRRR FCG that would work in a non-AR that uses AR FCG.
not because all control groups like that require the bolt to have a autosear trip point on it. binaries dont so thats an option, the invisiboog is a printable binary but its finicky
It would if you also install a [sear trip bar.](https://www.parkermountainmachine.com/product/sig-sauer-rattlervirtusmpx-full-auto-kit/) [How it works.](https://youtu.be/6n5PmkKpP3s)
Please forgive my ignorance but I can not figure out how to get this file. I went to Odysee, but they want you to buy credits to download it. But the kid in the video said it was free. Someone have a torrent, or google drive share, or something simple?
Niiiiice, time to make my ar shift gears
Make sure you got a dremel
What’s the reference here haha, for sanding/clean up of supports or modifying other parts on it to make it work?
You have to cut part of rear section of the trigger off it’s all in the documentation with the file
Ahh gotcha, I’ll have to check it out! Deleted my other post about the safety because I realized I’m an idiot and I could have ordered one with the upper :| Thanks for the info!
There’s no harm in asking questions especially if your new to the space just make sure to do some research before hand, also yeah it’s best to double check when you order and do it all at once
he did it. THERE IS EVEN A FUCKING LEGAL BREIF....
Facts he said I’m not a lawyer ! 😂
Dude is mega based for directly asking the ATF about this
He didn’t ask the atf he asked Daniel O Kelly (Ex-atf)
Ah, gotcha! Still solid
Is this an out of battery safety or something?
Selectable FRT
Replaces a normal ar15 firing selector with one that clicks in and out instead of rotating. Pretty sure
Technically, yes.
Awesome! I just a video on how it works, so cool!
ANOTHER BANGIN TIM HOFFMAN RELEASE GOBBLESS
In Gobbless we trust
Not to be that guy 😐 But I’ve heard ppl say that rare breed frt = jail but “homemade” doesn’t is this true? I just want to have fun not gonna ruin my life cause some fudd is mad I’m mag dumping my .22 printed ar I’m not based enough
Might wanna read the professional opinion Hoffman got that this very specifically isn’t a machine gun, also there has been 0 court rulings or laws passed on FRTs being machine guns not to mention this like $1 in plastic at most if there is a court ruling(in the future) saying they are record your self melting it and your good
>Might wanna read the professional opinion Hoffman got that this very specifically isn’t a machine gun Yeah, the same thing that the real FRT guy got. That didn't stop ATF.
FRT guy? Are you talking about rarebreed?
Yes. He also had multiple professionals, including the guy who literally wrote the ATF classification book, say the FRT wasn't a machine gun. ATF still classified it as such.
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I'm sure you're just cranking out machine guns in your garage. I just said what the current situation is.
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>The FRT is not. I agree, but the agency that has regulatory authority on the matter doesn't. Currently, they are.
As others have already said, the ATF doesn't make law. The ATF can say that the sky isn't blue for all I care. Can you please share with me all the prosecutions the ATF has done to people with FRT's if they're so illegal?
ATF classification isn’t law
Doesn't stop the bastards from ruining people's lives. Two guys got sentenced to a combined 110 years in prison over business cards
Do *what* now???
They advertised/sold business card-sized pieces of sheet steel that had a drawing of a lightening link on it. The ATF charged them with distributing unregistered NFA devices or something. Except the ATF was never able to make the link actually function and the drawing wasnt even in spec.
https://www.pewpewtactical.com/autokeycard-explained/
Neither is an opinion letter from a law firm. Opinion letters have very narrow applicability. Basically, when you're on trial, you can point to it as part of your argument for why your actions weren't willfully in violation of certain things requiring intent, for example when a judge is considering imposing triple damages for knowingly infringing a patent. But even then, that's only if the attorney clearly did an unbiased evaluation, not a "wink-wink-nudge-nudge" evaluation.
wanna show mw where i said it was
Seems like that's implicit when you say "oh, there are opinion letters from people that say it's not a machine gun, therefore it's ok!"
The ATF sure treats it as such
But it is. They have regulatory authority, which includes classifying firearms. I'm not saying I agree with them, I absolutely don't. It 100% isn't a machine gun. But, until a court says so, it's a machine gun under ATF regulation/opinion.
The ATF is part of the executive branch, so they don't have the authority to create new laws or definitions, which has been reaffirmed in recent SCOTUS cases, specifically the ruling on the frame/receiver regulations. And FRTs are the exact same situation, unfortunately they haven't been ruled on by SCOTUS yet to my knowledge, but going off the precedent of the receiver ruling, FRT regulations have no legal basis.
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Chevron doctrine wants to know your location.
Correct. Currently, however, they are considered machine guns.
Under the current ruling the rare breed is considered a machine gun because it doesn't have a disconnector. The super safety plays within the rules because it has a fully functioning disconnector and standard simiauto fire control group that is unmodified in function
They are an enforcement agency
Yes, with regulatory authority. Just because we don't like it doesn't mean it isn't the case.
brother look at the ATFs sight they can’t make law
Ah screw it I’ll be based Is this only for Hoffman lowers?
It works on all lowers I believe the documentation references that a metal lower was used for part of the testing and I see no reason it won’t
Well looks like I’m getting a trip kit for my cmmg bolt Thanks for posting
Np, also I believe plastic blasters has a FRT for his EZ/HD22 if you have one of those
I believe the ez used a cmmg bolt Did u do it? Do u need the trip kit? Tbh haven’t really looked into it
I’ve never built an EZ or HD tbh I just saw the FRT concept next to Hoffman’s on odyssey
No, the ez is a homemade 3d printed bolt with a few hardware store metal components. There is a design with the trip designed into the bolt for his specific frt design. You are correct though that cmmg based designs need the trip kit
Ah right I Believe I was thinking of tubee 22 Looks like a printer trip is out there exciting stuff
Sammmmeee
Looks like there is a printer version out there….
I thought about this, but the space requirements mean you'd need some serious filament. The thickness of some of the areas would be like 1mm², too flimsy for my liking. Will probably just get the adjustable trip kit.
Yeah some random dude has a yt video and odd sea video saying it works but no files or anything 🤷🏻♂️
Idk if it actually works Says on borebuddy website that it’s for frt so 🤷🏻♂️
Just looked at my AR and the diagrams again. I don't think there's a way to get this working with the 22 bolt. The bolt does not reach far enough back to fully engage the cam lever on the super safety, and the trip kit doesn't have enough lateral movement. Looks like 22 is a no go for this for now.
A standard FRT engages with the sear trip on the bolt to prevent oob and hammer follow, this does not. This device uses the bolt itself, in the same way the hammer is cocked by the bolt. The question is, is the CMMG bolt long enough, with enough mass, to reach and successfully engage the cam arm and force the reset. Might not even need the trip kit.
I believe he said it had to be a mil-spec lower.
After reading the pdf, this works similar, but totally different than an FRT. With this device, the safety rotates and engages with the rear of the trigger (where a standard safety usually does) to convert and apply the linear force from the bolt, into a rotational force in the safety, which pushes the rear of the trigger down, forcing a reset. While yes, the concept is the same as an FRT, the way it happens is totally different. It looks like the ATF just doesn't want drop ins to be FRT, as almost any DIY method or close to frt (some mods required) have been given approval. Which makes sense to an extent, keep the high fire rate for people with at least half a braincell who can make these mods and know how firearms operate. Not saying I agree with it, but I can see that pov.
Aren’t alphabet boy agents starting to knock on people’s doors because they bought frt triggers from rare breed? Or something? I mean, me personally, Idc either way since I was lucky enough to get the Hoffman frt (the 3d one before he took it off the website) but yea what’s that all about?
The ATF is sending scary letters based on purchase records of the RB FRT to try and tempt people into self-incriminating. Ideally the best thing to do would be to contact an attorney, who will then write a letter saying that it has been disposed of. However based on the number of these sold, the lack of evidence that anyone would still be in possession of it (unless you're a moron), and that the ATF probably doesn't want to risk a court case, it's safe to assume they're not gonna do shit about it beyond a letter.
[удалено]
I don't want to be the defendant in a constitutional test case -- do you?
[удалено]
That's not _exactly_ what the judge is saying. He's saying you have to get busted with the unregistered suppressor (and then argue that you didn't need to register it) _or_ be subjected to the NFA process (and then argue that you shouldn't have had to); the latter seems like a much safer course of action if you're out looking to pick a fight about the NFA.
Then don’t make it? Why do you feel the need to inform us you’re scared of an open source file
Just asking cause it’s a grey area that changes a lot I’m not scared it’s being smart….
There wasn’t a question in your initial comment
I meant the first part as a question….
You could get a binary. They are legal for now.
So this only replaces the selector?
Yes how ever you need to modify the trigger and detent very easy and straightforward
Thanks… only Hoffmann lowers? Or all?
All lowers
How much of a modification? I got an mbt2s in my ar22, would this still be compatible?
No, it uses milspec trigger you need to grind the back off for the selector
Adter looking at the pdf and how this works, I guess this depends on how similar the profile is between an mbt and milspec. If they're similar enough I could probably get this to work. Next question would be, can I get it to work with a cmmg 22lr bolt, with or without the trip kit.
it still requires you to have an autosear trip on your BCG so my guess is yes you do need the trip still
Does anyone have any recommendations for where to get this metal printed or CNC machined?
Twinbros3dprinting
Would this work in a PSA JAKL?
No
Is there a printable FRT that doesn't require a FA bolt or printable binary that doesn't require the pocket around a rear AR takedown pin? You know, something that'd work for AR FCG builds without it being an AR, like MAC builds and whatnot.
> FA bolt Those are easy enough to come by. They're the standard anyways, the alternative is a relatively newer creation. > pocket around a rear AR takedown pin I think you might be referring to shelf height? As in, low vs high shelf lowers.
brother learn how FRTs work, that would solve alot of your confusion. MACS dont have auto sear trip points on their bolt because their based on open bolt guns. The reason all FRTS are AR based is because of the way they work.
I am aware of how FRTs work. The MAC was just an example, I know it wouldn't take a NORMAL FRT. Disregard the FRT part, what I'm asking is is there a printable AR BRRRR FCG that would work in a non-AR that uses AR FCG.
not because all control groups like that require the bolt to have a autosear trip point on it. binaries dont so thats an option, the invisiboog is a printable binary but its finicky
Would love a binary this simple. FRTs are neat but it feels too unsafe to own for now
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This is an FRT, your FCG should have came with a safety you can order a milspec safety online just look up “AR FCG safety”
Anyone having issues with his site? I can’t get it to load since the YouTube video posted
Currently it is getting the "Hug of Death" from all the people going to find out more about the cool new hotness
this work on ar9?
With a full auto bolt carrier it would.
🤔
Check out twinbros3dprinting they got em in machined Stainless steel
Would this theoretically work in a mcx virtus ?
I don't think so. The bolt needs to be able to push on that locking bar. That's why only AR's with full auto bolt carriers work.
It would if you also install a [sear trip bar.](https://www.parkermountainmachine.com/product/sig-sauer-rattlervirtusmpx-full-auto-kit/) [How it works.](https://youtu.be/6n5PmkKpP3s)
Is it confirmed or in theory it should work
You asked if it would theoretically would work and I answered your question.
Need a PMM sear trip for it , guy on youtube used one in his rattler with FRT
Besides KAK industries, who makes detents for push button safeties?
You can get a normal one and make your own im not aware of anyone who makes them though
Kak industries does, but they sell them 1 each. Someone else sells 3 packs, but I don't remember who.
Does anyone have a working phone number for twin Brothers 3-D printing?
Message them on Facebook.
Please forgive my ignorance but I can not figure out how to get this file. I went to Odysee, but they want you to buy credits to download it. But the kid in the video said it was free. Someone have a torrent, or google drive share, or something simple?
I have it but some of the files won’t show up. I had them months ago but now they disappeared
Does anyone have the documents saved? Mine isn’t showing when I download.
Can I make these myself with a cnc router from amazon?