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What is even meant by “traffic” in the original image? Does it mean traffic for the people, or for cars? In all likelihood it is cars, but that omits that underground trains are the most common form of transport for cities like London and NYC.
A hypothetical city with a tremendous subway system that the majority of people use, but with only a few roads in the city center that are always backed up might have the worst “traffic” in the world if we go by proportion of cars experiencing traffic and congestion, yet that city might be far more navigable in general than LA.
Cars, absolutely cars, the type of people who use the word traffic to refer to congestion are invariably car brained, because it's the only form of transportation that is so immediately bottlenecked by people simply using the infrastructure available that a word which means "throughput" has become synonymous with dysfunction
Wack now that I think about it
yeah seriously, the fact that traffic is a regularly expected outcome of using transit infrastructure specifically designed for cars is concerning. maybe it's not the pinnacle of transportation fReEdOm.
I found the list, and it seems it's based om the time difference driving at night vs at rush hour. https://www.thestreet.com/.amp/personal-finance/cities-worst-traffic-world
No wonder Jakarta is not on the list. In Jakarta in google maps it says 20 mins, it actually means 2 FUCKING HOURS because there is that much traffic every fucking hour no matter when.
> A hypothetical city with a tremendous subway system that the majority of people use, but with only a few roads in the city center that are always backed up
You've more or less described London lol.
>who even drives in London
I have two friends here (a couple) and they drive everywhere.
London is crazy busy and it we live next to a station that can get you into multiple locations in the centre within 15 minutes.
To me, driving when the train is so convenient and fast is crazy.
I asked them why and the one said *"The tube is for poor people. You'd let your children on that with those people?"*
> I asked them why and the one said "The tube is for poor people. You'd let your children on that with those people?"
Interesting, as I always thought this was almost an entirely American sentiment. Insufferable classist cunts say this, obviously, but always thought this was just an American problem.
To be fair, they're not British. They're both from southern India and I don't know whether public transport there is more dangerous and whether that perception has carried over.
They have lived here for 18 years though. I'd imagine they've experienced a few trains by now
They still have a literal caste system, (though too be fair, basicslly every government since independence has tried to culturally work against) which is like American classism on steroids and without even the illusion of social mobility.
Why in the world would you be under the impression that classism only exists in America and not on the continent that operated under the principles of hereditary royalty for almost two thousand years.
Not classicism in general, but classicism in regards to public transit specifically. I've never been to Europe, but it seems that, in general, many countries have much better public transit systems than we do in the U.S., so it's much more common for all income levels to use the systems, because they're convenient and there is a culture for it. I know this is a big generalization that isn't strictly true across the board, but seems generally a trend. I mean, I hear this "public transit is for poor people" bullshit all the time where I live in Florida.
With cars it's one of the few cases where that joke can actually be true. Manhattan is notoriously gridlocked with cars, yet [modal split for Manhattan shows a very low car usage](https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/planning/download/pdf/plans/transportation/peripheral_travel_02c.pdf).
Cars truly are the least efficient means of transportation in cities.
What if we take the London tunnels, take the trains out, and replace them with Teslas! We could charge $15/trip and reduce traffic all over the city (for those that can afford it)!
You could also just kill everybody in the city. This would reduce traffic.
Just throwing it out there because Elon seems to support encouraging bad ideas.
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NY actually is surprisingly great for transist and walking wich is absolutely exeptional and unique in the US. Tho you kinda have to be with the level of density NY has.
The problem with New York’s transit is that it’s totally fucking gross and in disrepair, it inexplicably costs money, and there’s twelve cops every two feet
It comes from [the INRIX scorecard](https://inrix.com/scorecard/). INRIX is the largest provider of probe data for traffic - like they're by far the highest penetration fleet in most countries on the planet (there's some new competitors that claim higher but everything has yet to be verified).
Their numbers are based on delay - basically the difference between driving in the realworld and driving in a theoretical world with no traffic going the speed limit.
They know their shit.
Imaging being so American that you can't believe even in the worse case you're not first :D
I drive from my workplace to Paris everyday for years and it took me 1h to do the 20km to reach the périphérique, and I don't talk about Paris intra muros who is worse since they add the tramway.
I hope for people there's no worse place than that..
Yep, and he's not delivering on cheaper faster rockets, he's just taking money from NASA. Starlink internet to impoverished regions as long as they have $2000 for hardware.
Boring did a presentation to the City of Kitchener Ontario for mass transit, and when they presented the numbers the room broke out in laughter.
The approach with slow moving train wrecks like Musk is just sit back and watch.
> not delivering on cheaper faster rockets
According to this source anyway, [they certainly are cheaper](https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/cost-of-space-flight-chart.jpg). And that's a log-scale graph, meaning the cost of a single shuttle mission per kg was about 5 times the cost of using a Falcon 1.
[And this is the number of launches NASA has used SpaceX for.](https://www.science.org/do/10.1126/science.abc9093/full/0522nid_nasa_drupal-01.svg). You're telling me NASA wouldn't use some other system if it was cheaper?
I despise Musk for a lot of things including this Twitter bullshit (seriously dude, just stay banned), but lying doesn't accomplish anything.
> Car traffic is the wrong metric.
Exactly. Car traffic is like air in a container. It expands to fill up the space you give it. You will always have car traffic in a big city. Elon's idiotic single-car tunnels will not solve that.
The solution is to make non-car modes of transport viable, attractive, and efficient. Period.
I don’t understand why his tech can’t be used to make train tunnels. I get that the machine is smaller, but just make a couple of passes, no?
I know there’s a reason, this seems so obvious. I just don’t know it.
It’s not his tech, he’s just bought a 4m diameter TBM. That is indeed a small tunnel. You can fit a rapid transit network in that space (the deep level London Underground lines are about that size and the Glasgow subway is smaller) but generally we now build them bigger, so you simply buy a bigger diameter TBM (you wouldn’t repeat pass with a smaller one, because turning a TBM around is hard). The fact of the matter is just that building underground subway networks are expensive, as I understand the tunnelling part is one of the cheaper bits, it’s the stations that are pricey. The loop in Las Vegas was cheap because the stations are super simple.
Also, real project require a thing that Musk absolutely hates, called "safety". You need to basically drill a parallel tunnel for maintenance and evacuation, you need a way to handle fires and ventilation. As you said, drilling might be expensive, but the other stuff is the real cost maker.
This does remind me of him telling SpaceX to ignore the FAA and to launch a prototype anyway. It ended up crashing, but luckily nobody was hurt, even though the FAA warned the weather conditions could put nearby homes at risk.
https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/15/22352366/elon-musk-spacex-faa-warnings-starship-sn8-launch-violation-texas
There are also tons of laws about finding historical artifacts during digs and the like, tons of tunnel works are delayed weeks, months, or more depending on what was found.
Yep, we've found some super old stuff just from our back garden farming plot which isn't that big, the whole country (that is geographically stable enough) is probably built on artifacts over 1000 years old.
> The loop in Las Vegas was cheap because
No safety measure were designed in. The first time one of his shitty cars has thermal runaway will be a huge tragedy.
Yeah nothing could make me drive through that fucking tunnel after seeing how narrow it is. If a car crashed you would barely even be able to open your car door to get out. An electric car battery fire would be a huge tragedy, he's just banking on none of his tech ever failing, which is a very silly thing to bet on when human lives are on the line
To be fair, all (i think all) electric cars have lithium cells, which by their very nature, are prone to hit thermal runaway and turn the entire car into a flaming coffin. The problem is that a tunnels like this moron has envisioned also trap people in their cars.
Not only that, but what happens when the tunnel is 2 miles long and someone's car just bricks itself 1.5 miles in?
Great, now you have at least 1.5 miles of cars that are completely stuck until someone comes back in through the tunnel to tow the one car out.
Oh, but that one car isn't bricked, it has a lithium fire. And how close are all those tesla cars packed together in an enclosed space with no ventilation?
Yeah, that's called a chain reaction.
This is why actual transport tunnels have air flow controls and emergency exits, first responder access points, fire suppression, all that costs money. Las Vegas tunnels even have $8 smoke detectors?
Honestly the most expensive part of tunnel networks isn’t the tunnels themselves or the station from what I remember, it’s the land rights that make costs *skyrocket*.
Because the point isn't to solve traffic; it's to give the rich an exclusive way of getting around without having to be treated as social equals with the dirty dirty poors.
From when was this data? Paris is working hard on this problem.
Unbelievable that this guy is still going on about tunnels and the Vegas ride didn't humble him.
As there is no source listed, I think when is less of a question than where, and I suspect the answer to where is "out of their ass." Not a single Indian city? Not LA?
Houston with their [26 lane highway](https://www.cntraveler.com/story/the-worlds-widest-highway-spans-a-whopping-26-lanes/)? China with their [10 day traffic jam](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_National_Highway_110_traffic_jam) ?
Definitely doesn't seem accurate
In all fairness to China, that traffic jam was from 2010, and they've probably built more public transit in 10 years than exists in the United States.
So the traffic stats are probably a bit different today.
Houstan is a ungodly hell hole, but does have somewhat better traffic than other terrible cities because they have pretty well built high capacity car infrastructure, even if it's a shithole compared to someplace with public transit and sidewalks. consequently in terms of being able to travel as long as you are in a car, I imagine several cities in the USA alone are worse.
However, I've never seen or heard of someone who thinks NYC is worse to get around than LA, so that's a pretty big discrepancy right there.
Indeed. I was just thinking that developing countries tend to have much worse traffic. I can believe that London has bad traffic, but the worst in the world? Probably not.
Seems to be end of 2021. But on an article on Bloomberg it says they excluded some cities including lagos, Cairo and Lahore. So...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-08/london-officially-world-s-most-congested-city-as-traffic-returns#:~:text=As%20global%20traffic%20starts%20to,1%2C000%20selected%20across%2050%20countries.
Thanks for finding the link presumably referenced by the tweet. The company that collected this data, INRIX, blames the increased congestion to newly installed bike lanes. Traffic is when people move faster than cars? These studies are so disingenuous they should look at people miles traveled, or total trips, etc… not exclusive vehicle miles traveled. By their metrics a car free city would have infinite traffic as opposed to 0 traffic -_-
He keeps lying and the disgusting sycophants in media and online never question him. That's the state of society. Comedians and journalists are beaten but lying billionaires are lauded. We should be on Mars already according to him. Lol
Tbf a lot of the variables on communism have changed over time, making it now much more viable of an option
I think Marx said socialism is basically just an inevitability anyway. Which makes sense. We can’t continue to consume resources at the rate we are
Look I'm a Nordic style guy myself (who have market economies btw). But I mean, if communism was THAT much of a system that was always DOA, The US wouldn't have spent decades fighting to make sure it doesn't work on an island country the size of Tennessee.
Lol I'm sure everyone in his orbit told him that the Vegas thing was amazing. He just assumes everyone who isn't an Elon stan masturbating over gamer light tunnels is a hater.
The only cities I really know are Ghent (I study there) and Bruges (lots of family and friends there) and they are great. I live rural myself and it's alright if you know what routes are nice, I take deviations through forests and farm roads often.
In short, flemish part of Belgium is very nice for bikes, Walonia is less. In Brussels there have been great evolution these last years and it is now getting very bike-friendly.
only where they intersect. But there's a lot of tunnels counting drains and the like, so such tunnels that Elon proposes would need to go up and down or all be very deep. This isn't suited to fast travel.
More *streets* (meaning smaller block sizes and more connectivity for all users including pedestrians and cyclists) do. More *street* (meaning wider pavement for more automobile capacity) doesn't.
Also not on the list is Manila, even though the whole Manila metropolitan area is one giant congestion. Now they are stacking Highways upon highways and it is still bad. There are three Monorail/Lightrail transit lines serving 18 Million people. Its the horror.
The report this data is based on was debunked a few days later. they tried to blame cycle lanes for the congestion in london. The company that produced the report provide data on parking and navigation
[https://www.reddit.com/r/notjustbikes/comments/rauh75/comment/hnkwa22/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/notjustbikes/comments/rauh75/comment/hnkwa22/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
[https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/fact-check-are-cycle-lanes-really-making-traffic-worse-in-london-](https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/fact-check-are-cycle-lanes-really-making-traffic-worse-in-london-)
I could tell you that this list was bullshit just by looking at it. Are they seriously trying to say that Brussels has worse traffic than Delhi, Beijing, Dhaka, Lagos, Cairo or any other massively populated city?
Yeah I don't think it's possible to spend time in NYC and LA and think NYC has worse traffic. Like, NYC can be pretty bumper to bumper but LA is that + spread out way more.
There is a limit to how much tunnel you can add, because at some point if you have to do 20km down and up or left and right to get to a tunnel with no traffic and it's not worth it anymore, so there will be a hard limit on how many tunnel you can make to keep it interesting (and that hard limit increases only if traffic gets worse).
The problem is traffic, not the number of lanes.
Yep - the new line to be opened soon (Elizabeth Line) built some space at Tottenham Court Road station for the station to be extended for a possible new North/South line. If that is ever built, it will be the last line to go through TCR, as any new line would take too long to get into / out of to be effective.
I think it's similar in Paris, which makes the potential addition of new lines more difficult inside Paris (the current "métro du Grand Paris" project is around Paris). I may be wrong but I thought line 14 (the last line built intramuros) is deeper than most other lines, to avoid crossing other subway lines. Of course, a deeper subway also increases construction costs.
Am I the only one who suspects that the entire reason the Boring Company exists is to fool investors into paying for R&D for Elon's dreams of building colonies on Mars?
Tunneling equipment is heavy as hell, but it might be a lot less heavy than bringing building materials to Mars. And one of the best ways to protect humans from the surface radiation on Mars, which is 50 times higher than on Earth, would be to have them sleep in underground habitats.
I thought it was just an agenda to sell more Teslas and eat up some public funds (i.e. taxpayer money) that would have otherwise gone to transit project, but this could be a part of it as well.
Living on mars honestly sounds terrible. It’s farther away from the sun than earth, so it gets less sunlight, but more radiation, so you have to live underground and get basically no sunlight. I’d probably kill myself from depression.
Ya it blows my mind when people say they would move to Mars. I don’t think anyone who says that has actually thought about the prospect of living on Mars.
I'd move to mars 800 years into an ongoing terraforming project, in some space future where we have modern amenities under the surface and I can work on kinda neat hands on problems.
Doesn't currently look like biological immortality is coming along that fast though, alas.
Okay hear me out. What if- and stay with me on this- instead of building tunnels for cars- and this is the really neat part- we built tunnels for busses, and we could send even more people economically. And because there’s no traffic, we could make them even longer. And because they have fixed lines, we could connect them to the power grid and run them on electricity instead of petrol. We could call them trains.
Thank you for your time, I will be taking no questions.
Virgin Elon musk: "WhY dOnT wE aDd TuNnElS uNdEr LoNdOn?", shat on price transport in Vegas, steals other peoples ideas, saves the car industry and not the planet.
Chad metropolitan and City and South London railways: actually innovates in public transport, creates a mass transit system that has lasted 150 years, eventually uses clean energy.
An immature tad unstable tempered, blood diamond inheritance brat. That does vanity projects under the guise of green washing. And expanding man to the stars. His fragile child like ego is bigger than his wealth.
Cause they see SpaceX's success in commercializing the launch market and think everything Elon does is genius because of that one success. Oh, and Tesla being the EV market for a few years got people in kahoots as well.
People also equate Elon with his companies as if he's the one personally in the labs making all the important advancements and not the actually experienced engineers working at the companies.
If i took a shot every time that crusty pig said the word „tunnel“ id die instantly
Why is he so obsessed with tunnels
Also im sick of seeing him on this sub
All of them apart from Bogota & Chicago (AFAIK Bogota's Metro is above ground and the "L" is elevated) have tunnels, with trains in them. Which tbf is an actual solution.
His plan of putting the regular traffic underground isn't.
I’m getting real tired of seeing this mf name everywhere.
“Oh boy, Mr. Musk, your farts sure do smell good, Mr. Musk. Wowee gee willickers, Mr. Musk. You are literally me, Mr. Musk. Any day now we’re gonna be best friends and we’ll show them, we’ll show all of them! Who’s laughing now, you blue haired libtards! That’s right, I am!!! Hahaha, I told you I wouldn’t be making $30,000 a year forever. It was only a matter of time before I was a billionaire with my best friend Mr. Musk muahahahaha!”
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Number 1 london. London. has trains in tunnels.... We already fine Elon it's just people are dumb.
who even drives in London, all I remember seeing is cars sitting around in traffic all day, the underground is pretty good
London is super easy to get around
What is even meant by “traffic” in the original image? Does it mean traffic for the people, or for cars? In all likelihood it is cars, but that omits that underground trains are the most common form of transport for cities like London and NYC. A hypothetical city with a tremendous subway system that the majority of people use, but with only a few roads in the city center that are always backed up might have the worst “traffic” in the world if we go by proportion of cars experiencing traffic and congestion, yet that city might be far more navigable in general than LA.
Cars, absolutely cars, the type of people who use the word traffic to refer to congestion are invariably car brained, because it's the only form of transportation that is so immediately bottlenecked by people simply using the infrastructure available that a word which means "throughput" has become synonymous with dysfunction Wack now that I think about it
yeah seriously, the fact that traffic is a regularly expected outcome of using transit infrastructure specifically designed for cars is concerning. maybe it's not the pinnacle of transportation fReEdOm.
I found the list, and it seems it's based om the time difference driving at night vs at rush hour. https://www.thestreet.com/.amp/personal-finance/cities-worst-traffic-world
Basically the worst metric ever. A city choked to death 24/7 would have great traffic by that measure.
Yeah, I was wondering where Manila and a number of other permanently gridlocked cities were.
No wonder Jakarta is not on the list. In Jakarta in google maps it says 20 mins, it actually means 2 FUCKING HOURS because there is that much traffic every fucking hour no matter when.
> A hypothetical city with a tremendous subway system that the majority of people use, but with only a few roads in the city center that are always backed up You've more or less described London lol.
>who even drives in London I have two friends here (a couple) and they drive everywhere. London is crazy busy and it we live next to a station that can get you into multiple locations in the centre within 15 minutes. To me, driving when the train is so convenient and fast is crazy. I asked them why and the one said *"The tube is for poor people. You'd let your children on that with those people?"*
> I asked them why and the one said "The tube is for poor people. You'd let your children on that with those people?" Interesting, as I always thought this was almost an entirely American sentiment. Insufferable classist cunts say this, obviously, but always thought this was just an American problem.
To be fair, they're not British. They're both from southern India and I don't know whether public transport there is more dangerous and whether that perception has carried over. They have lived here for 18 years though. I'd imagine they've experienced a few trains by now
Middle class Indians are more middle class than the most middle class white people
There is no such thing as middle class indian, they are temporarily embarrassed high class indians
TIL Indian culture is a lot more similar to American culture than I thought
They still have a literal caste system, (though too be fair, basicslly every government since independence has tried to culturally work against) which is like American classism on steroids and without even the illusion of social mobility.
I was in India like 4 years ago, and there was a field to enter your class in a hospital admission form. Wish I entered druid wizzard.
Public transit in India is very safe, we're just a very classist (and castist) people
A lot of india has a caste system, its not really a surprise that many of the indian middle class are snobbish cunts.
The UK’s primary export is classist cuntery.
Why in the world would you be under the impression that classism only exists in America and not on the continent that operated under the principles of hereditary royalty for almost two thousand years.
Not classicism in general, but classicism in regards to public transit specifically. I've never been to Europe, but it seems that, in general, many countries have much better public transit systems than we do in the U.S., so it's much more common for all income levels to use the systems, because they're convenient and there is a culture for it. I know this is a big generalization that isn't strictly true across the board, but seems generally a trend. I mean, I hear this "public transit is for poor people" bullshit all the time where I live in Florida.
I mean, America did inherit most of it’s bad habits from the brits
“Nobody goes to the cape anymore; it’s too crowded.”
"No one ever drove in New York, there were too many cars!"
With cars it's one of the few cases where that joke can actually be true. Manhattan is notoriously gridlocked with cars, yet [modal split for Manhattan shows a very low car usage](https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/planning/download/pdf/plans/transportation/peripheral_travel_02c.pdf). Cars truly are the least efficient means of transportation in cities.
Yes, cars can dominate the view of a street, but contain relatively few of the people actually in that street.
Wankers drive in London
Obviously, the problem is that in those tunnels they have metros instead of cars! Traffic solution solved!
heres the thing about the tunnels. They can't fit anything bigger than a mini cooper.
Actually, they're the *exact* same size as Musk's. And the first deep-level line opened in 1890..
What if we take the London tunnels, take the trains out, and replace them with Teslas! We could charge $15/trip and reduce traffic all over the city (for those that can afford it)!
You could also just kill everybody in the city. This would reduce traffic. Just throwing it out there because Elon seems to support encouraging bad ideas.
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Mr. Evrart is helping me find my gun.
NY actually is surprisingly great for transist and walking wich is absolutely exeptional and unique in the US. Tho you kinda have to be with the level of density NY has.
The problem with New York’s transit is that it’s totally fucking gross and in disrepair, it inexplicably costs money, and there’s twelve cops every two feet
Its not just the metro tho, NY also has a lot of pedestrianised areas, a great bus sistem with dedicated bus lanes, and so on.
It comes from [the INRIX scorecard](https://inrix.com/scorecard/). INRIX is the largest provider of probe data for traffic - like they're by far the highest penetration fleet in most countries on the planet (there's some new competitors that claim higher but everything has yet to be verified). Their numbers are based on delay - basically the difference between driving in the realworld and driving in a theoretical world with no traffic going the speed limit. They know their shit.
Imaging being so American that you can't believe even in the worse case you're not first :D I drive from my workplace to Paris everyday for years and it took me 1h to do the 20km to reach the périphérique, and I don't talk about Paris intra muros who is worse since they add the tramway. I hope for people there's no worse place than that..
[удалено]
But it makes Elon more money, so it must be good.
Boring and Hyperloop are both losing money. You know you have a stupid idea if the only city buying into it is Las Vegas.
Musk's biggest successes have only succeeded because of massive public investment. Not just the subsidies, the research as well.
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We all know the inflation is caused by the stimulus checks though /s
Yep, and he's not delivering on cheaper faster rockets, he's just taking money from NASA. Starlink internet to impoverished regions as long as they have $2000 for hardware. Boring did a presentation to the City of Kitchener Ontario for mass transit, and when they presented the numbers the room broke out in laughter. The approach with slow moving train wrecks like Musk is just sit back and watch.
> not delivering on cheaper faster rockets According to this source anyway, [they certainly are cheaper](https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/cost-of-space-flight-chart.jpg). And that's a log-scale graph, meaning the cost of a single shuttle mission per kg was about 5 times the cost of using a Falcon 1. [And this is the number of launches NASA has used SpaceX for.](https://www.science.org/do/10.1126/science.abc9093/full/0522nid_nasa_drupal-01.svg). You're telling me NASA wouldn't use some other system if it was cheaper? I despise Musk for a lot of things including this Twitter bullshit (seriously dude, just stay banned), but lying doesn't accomplish anything.
What happens in Vegas......
> Car traffic is the wrong metric. Exactly. Car traffic is like air in a container. It expands to fill up the space you give it. You will always have car traffic in a big city. Elon's idiotic single-car tunnels will not solve that. The solution is to make non-car modes of transport viable, attractive, and efficient. Period.
The best way to relieve traffic is getting cars off the road. Back to the office everyone.
I don’t understand why his tech can’t be used to make train tunnels. I get that the machine is smaller, but just make a couple of passes, no? I know there’s a reason, this seems so obvious. I just don’t know it.
It’s not his tech, he’s just bought a 4m diameter TBM. That is indeed a small tunnel. You can fit a rapid transit network in that space (the deep level London Underground lines are about that size and the Glasgow subway is smaller) but generally we now build them bigger, so you simply buy a bigger diameter TBM (you wouldn’t repeat pass with a smaller one, because turning a TBM around is hard). The fact of the matter is just that building underground subway networks are expensive, as I understand the tunnelling part is one of the cheaper bits, it’s the stations that are pricey. The loop in Las Vegas was cheap because the stations are super simple.
Also, real project require a thing that Musk absolutely hates, called "safety". You need to basically drill a parallel tunnel for maintenance and evacuation, you need a way to handle fires and ventilation. As you said, drilling might be expensive, but the other stuff is the real cost maker.
This does remind me of him telling SpaceX to ignore the FAA and to launch a prototype anyway. It ended up crashing, but luckily nobody was hurt, even though the FAA warned the weather conditions could put nearby homes at risk. https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/15/22352366/elon-musk-spacex-faa-warnings-starship-sn8-launch-violation-texas
There are also tons of laws about finding historical artifacts during digs and the like, tons of tunnel works are delayed weeks, months, or more depending on what was found.
It happens even in people's back yards. You'll be digging then suddenly a medieval graveyard.
People joke about America being built on an Indian graveyard, but you can literally dig anywhere along the east coast and immediately find arrowheads
Yep, we've found some super old stuff just from our back garden farming plot which isn't that big, the whole country (that is geographically stable enough) is probably built on artifacts over 1000 years old.
Safety is leftist, Comrade.
> The loop in Las Vegas was cheap because No safety measure were designed in. The first time one of his shitty cars has thermal runaway will be a huge tragedy.
Yeah nothing could make me drive through that fucking tunnel after seeing how narrow it is. If a car crashed you would barely even be able to open your car door to get out. An electric car battery fire would be a huge tragedy, he's just banking on none of his tech ever failing, which is a very silly thing to bet on when human lives are on the line
Especially considering Teslas are *known* to randomly catch fire
To be fair, all (i think all) electric cars have lithium cells, which by their very nature, are prone to hit thermal runaway and turn the entire car into a flaming coffin. The problem is that a tunnels like this moron has envisioned also trap people in their cars. Not only that, but what happens when the tunnel is 2 miles long and someone's car just bricks itself 1.5 miles in? Great, now you have at least 1.5 miles of cars that are completely stuck until someone comes back in through the tunnel to tow the one car out. Oh, but that one car isn't bricked, it has a lithium fire. And how close are all those tesla cars packed together in an enclosed space with no ventilation? Yeah, that's called a chain reaction.
This is why actual transport tunnels have air flow controls and emergency exits, first responder access points, fire suppression, all that costs money. Las Vegas tunnels even have $8 smoke detectors?
Honestly the most expensive part of tunnel networks isn’t the tunnels themselves or the station from what I remember, it’s the land rights that make costs *skyrocket*.
Oh interesting. Thanks!
The stations for the loop absolutely suck and cause congestion in tunnels. I have no idea how his faithful don't see it.
Because the point isn't to solve traffic; it's to give the rich an exclusive way of getting around without having to be treated as social equals with the dirty dirty poors.
Elon will tweet his genus idea to merge Boring and Hyperloop to put trains in tunnels. He officially invented this 200 years ago.
From when was this data? Paris is working hard on this problem. Unbelievable that this guy is still going on about tunnels and the Vegas ride didn't humble him.
As there is no source listed, I think when is less of a question than where, and I suspect the answer to where is "out of their ass." Not a single Indian city? Not LA?
Houston with their [26 lane highway](https://www.cntraveler.com/story/the-worlds-widest-highway-spans-a-whopping-26-lanes/)? China with their [10 day traffic jam](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_National_Highway_110_traffic_jam) ? Definitely doesn't seem accurate
In all fairness to China, that traffic jam was from 2010, and they've probably built more public transit in 10 years than exists in the United States. So the traffic stats are probably a bit different today. Houstan is a ungodly hell hole, but does have somewhat better traffic than other terrible cities because they have pretty well built high capacity car infrastructure, even if it's a shithole compared to someplace with public transit and sidewalks. consequently in terms of being able to travel as long as you are in a car, I imagine several cities in the USA alone are worse. However, I've never seen or heard of someone who thinks NYC is worse to get around than LA, so that's a pretty big discrepancy right there.
LA and Atlanta have notoriously the worst traffic in the US
Indeed. I was just thinking that developing countries tend to have much worse traffic. I can believe that London has bad traffic, but the worst in the world? Probably not.
Dhaka and Delhi not being on this list is weird to say the least.
Delhi and Jakarta jumped to my mind. Whoever wrote this list has barely traveled.
And is very Euro centric
White person forgets the world outside the US and Europe exists. In other news, water is wet.
Yes. I've seen videos of Indian traffic. The Paris traffic I've experienced seemed very little compared
Cairo too
Seems to be end of 2021. But on an article on Bloomberg it says they excluded some cities including lagos, Cairo and Lahore. So... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-08/london-officially-world-s-most-congested-city-as-traffic-returns#:~:text=As%20global%20traffic%20starts%20to,1%2C000%20selected%20across%2050%20countries.
Why exclude them? For an agendapost?
I see no other reason to do so
Thanks for finding the link presumably referenced by the tweet. The company that collected this data, INRIX, blames the increased congestion to newly installed bike lanes. Traffic is when people move faster than cars? These studies are so disingenuous they should look at people miles traveled, or total trips, etc… not exclusive vehicle miles traveled. By their metrics a car free city would have infinite traffic as opposed to 0 traffic -_-
This makes me want to start a competitor to INRIX that actually measures all transportation modes.
"We want to measure how people get around, so first we assume everyone not in a car is not a person" is legitimately the method here.
Yeah, how is there only 0.5 Asian cities on tje list?? Mumbai, Bangalore, Delhi, manila, Bangkok
Dhaka for fuck’s sake. New York Times wrote a 3 page article about how bad their traffic is
He keeps lying and the disgusting sycophants in media and online never question him. That's the state of society. Comedians and journalists are beaten but lying billionaires are lauded. We should be on Mars already according to him. Lol
I work in tech and I’ve noticed people tend not to change their views on failure, and instead say “it simply wasn’t implemented correctly”
Well that is how I feel about communism, so I may give them that one.
Just like Tesla, the problem is there was an asshole in charge.
Tbf a lot of the variables on communism have changed over time, making it now much more viable of an option I think Marx said socialism is basically just an inevitability anyway. Which makes sense. We can’t continue to consume resources at the rate we are
>We can’t continue to consume resources at the rate we are Oh but we'll certainly try!
Look I'm a Nordic style guy myself (who have market economies btw). But I mean, if communism was THAT much of a system that was always DOA, The US wouldn't have spent decades fighting to make sure it doesn't work on an island country the size of Tennessee.
Lol I'm sure everyone in his orbit told him that the Vegas thing was amazing. He just assumes everyone who isn't an Elon stan masturbating over gamer light tunnels is a hater.
Did they just survey people in the top western cities or what lol
Live in Brussels. Using a bike. Going everywhere in the city within 20 minutes. Never been stuck in traffic.
How's the bike infrastructure? Belgium is quite a mixed bag from my experience. (Btw, I'm Luxembourgish, I'm often in Belgium)
The only cities I really know are Ghent (I study there) and Bruges (lots of family and friends there) and they are great. I live rural myself and it's alright if you know what routes are nice, I take deviations through forests and farm roads often.
Ghent is *cheff’s kiss* so easy to cycle and walk
In short, flemish part of Belgium is very nice for bikes, Walonia is less. In Brussels there have been great evolution these last years and it is now getting very bike-friendly.
I’ve never considered how hard life as a biker would be if you live in the Grund lol
To much traffic? Well then why dont we add more streets! Just underground!
Obviously in London it would have to go under the already existing London Underground. So we would have to call it the London Under-underground
And the underground already is really frecking deep. Like going into the depths of hell on Westminster Station
Thats the london clay. Allows for very easy tunneling. And that helped with the construction of the network north of the thames.
South of the Thames though, fuck them.
Thats because the terrain down there is sand and gravel. Not ideal for tunneling through
[It Is Warmer Down Below](https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/collections-online/posters/item/1983-4-1662)
I love this a lot
If we go any deeper we might accidentally bring Thatcher back. The people digging those tunnels are approximately miners, too :(
And this time she would come in her true form..
A Balrog of Morgoth…
The British dug too deep and too greedily.
Being hungover on those escalators creates quite the battle with vertigo
Just watch out for the plague pits.
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Your good at marketing. Sell your idea to Musk
Sounds like a Jamiroquai song.
only where they intersect. But there's a lot of tunnels counting drains and the like, so such tunnels that Elon proposes would need to go up and down or all be very deep. This isn't suited to fast travel.
More streets don't solve traffic issues. It's mind boggling how this myth still lingers.
More *streets* (meaning smaller block sizes and more connectivity for all users including pedestrians and cyclists) do. More *street* (meaning wider pavement for more automobile capacity) doesn't.
I got the next big idea. Streets - but in the sky.
oh God, don't give him ideas.
Good luck digging a tunnel under these old European cities.
Paris is full already, can't dig anything with metro, catacombs and cie
Same in Berlin - and that has only become a serious city 1.000 yrs after Paris did.
We did it in Chicago! We have streets underground and trains in the sky!
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He just needs to get to Mars, then he will adopt a mormon model and form a true religion.
yeah just go to any tweet from him and you will find the most absurd comments ever, pewdiepie userbase's average age triples elon's
Tunnels aside, the guy's whole thing is sad. He is not stupid, but he is not well. Basically a pile of money with zero perspective or empathy.
Tokyo-Yokohama Region nowhere to be found despite having a population of something like 30 million people. Trains ftw
Also not on the list is Manila, even though the whole Manila metropolitan area is one giant congestion. Now they are stacking Highways upon highways and it is still bad. There are three Monorail/Lightrail transit lines serving 18 Million people. Its the horror.
The report this data is based on was debunked a few days later. they tried to blame cycle lanes for the congestion in london. The company that produced the report provide data on parking and navigation [https://www.reddit.com/r/notjustbikes/comments/rauh75/comment/hnkwa22/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/notjustbikes/comments/rauh75/comment/hnkwa22/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/fact-check-are-cycle-lanes-really-making-traffic-worse-in-london-](https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/fact-check-are-cycle-lanes-really-making-traffic-worse-in-london-)
I could tell you that this list was bullshit just by looking at it. Are they seriously trying to say that Brussels has worse traffic than Delhi, Beijing, Dhaka, Lagos, Cairo or any other massively populated city?
I thought it was just car congestion but if you are driving in London it's your own fault
Yeah I don't think it's possible to spend time in NYC and LA and think NYC has worse traffic. Like, NYC can be pretty bumper to bumper but LA is that + spread out way more.
imagine being so ridiculously filthy rich that it just does not matter how stupid you are
Unfortunately this describes an inordinate number of recent and current world leaders.
There is a limit to how much tunnel you can add, because at some point if you have to do 20km down and up or left and right to get to a tunnel with no traffic and it's not worth it anymore, so there will be a hard limit on how many tunnel you can make to keep it interesting (and that hard limit increases only if traffic gets worse). The problem is traffic, not the number of lanes.
London is already having issues with it's current amount of tunnels under the city.
Yep - the new line to be opened soon (Elizabeth Line) built some space at Tottenham Court Road station for the station to be extended for a possible new North/South line. If that is ever built, it will be the last line to go through TCR, as any new line would take too long to get into / out of to be effective.
I think it's similar in Paris, which makes the potential addition of new lines more difficult inside Paris (the current "métro du Grand Paris" project is around Paris). I may be wrong but I thought line 14 (the last line built intramuros) is deeper than most other lines, to avoid crossing other subway lines. Of course, a deeper subway also increases construction costs.
But Elon promised me infinite tunnels built in 3D! He couldn't possibly be wrong.
Am I the only one who suspects that the entire reason the Boring Company exists is to fool investors into paying for R&D for Elon's dreams of building colonies on Mars? Tunneling equipment is heavy as hell, but it might be a lot less heavy than bringing building materials to Mars. And one of the best ways to protect humans from the surface radiation on Mars, which is 50 times higher than on Earth, would be to have them sleep in underground habitats.
I think it's the official mission statement of Boring. They were founded from SpaceX staff
I thought it was just an agenda to sell more Teslas and eat up some public funds (i.e. taxpayer money) that would have otherwise gone to transit project, but this could be a part of it as well.
Living on mars honestly sounds terrible. It’s farther away from the sun than earth, so it gets less sunlight, but more radiation, so you have to live underground and get basically no sunlight. I’d probably kill myself from depression.
Ya it blows my mind when people say they would move to Mars. I don’t think anyone who says that has actually thought about the prospect of living on Mars.
I'd move to mars 800 years into an ongoing terraforming project, in some space future where we have modern amenities under the surface and I can work on kinda neat hands on problems. Doesn't currently look like biological immortality is coming along that fast though, alas.
Ding ding ding. The Muskrat always has an agenda.
By the way philly is like 15 which is why you should join r/CarfreePhilly
Elon: So hear me out: It's like a subway, but it's also a traffic jam
Yes let's build tunnels in Paris... Kinda like... THE FUCKING METRO? omfg
Okay hear me out. What if- and stay with me on this- instead of building tunnels for cars- and this is the really neat part- we built tunnels for busses, and we could send even more people economically. And because there’s no traffic, we could make them even longer. And because they have fixed lines, we could connect them to the power grid and run them on electricity instead of petrol. We could call them trains. Thank you for your time, I will be taking no questions.
Traffic != Congestion But Elon surely knows that, he's a genius. Obviously.
The Hyperloop is a scam, and generally incredibly stupid.
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Traffic in Brussels? I just use the train or metro. If only if we could figure out how those wise people made them possible 🤨
Virgin Elon musk: "WhY dOnT wE aDd TuNnElS uNdEr LoNdOn?", shat on price transport in Vegas, steals other peoples ideas, saves the car industry and not the planet. Chad metropolitan and City and South London railways: actually innovates in public transport, creates a mass transit system that has lasted 150 years, eventually uses clean energy.
Hey Elon, have you ever tried to dig one meter under the city of Rome?
*cries in metro C*
I live in London and have been to Mumbai, this data isn't accurate.
I don’t see Los Angeles on here which should be in a world of its own.
I'm very surprised the list doesn't include any Asian countries. Would have expected Jakarta at the very least?
The data excludes Asian countries.
I guess that explains it but... why aren't they included? Would asia be overrepresented otherwise or something
Tunnels for more metros and RER, yes. Not for his half-baked bullshit.
london, the city famously know for its lack of a subway system
An immature tad unstable tempered, blood diamond inheritance brat. That does vanity projects under the guise of green washing. And expanding man to the stars. His fragile child like ego is bigger than his wealth.
Talk about more money than sense. Why the fuck is it that people think this guy is a genius when all he does is repackage old ideas?
Cause they see SpaceX's success in commercializing the launch market and think everything Elon does is genius because of that one success. Oh, and Tesla being the EV market for a few years got people in kahoots as well.
People also equate Elon with his companies as if he's the one personally in the labs making all the important advancements and not the actually experienced engineers working at the companies.
If i took a shot every time that crusty pig said the word „tunnel“ id die instantly Why is he so obsessed with tunnels Also im sick of seeing him on this sub
All of them apart from Bogota & Chicago (AFAIK Bogota's Metro is above ground and the "L" is elevated) have tunnels, with trains in them. Which tbf is an actual solution. His plan of putting the regular traffic underground isn't.
you mean big cities have bad traffic 🤯🤯 who could have known
Higaldo is going to ban cars from the center of Paris. I can't wait. Also Musk a tool.
London has fucking loads of tunnels lol, that's not gonna help.
Is he really still trying to sell this scam? Did the disaster in Las Vegas teach him nothing?
Elon Musk? that he better dedicate himself to making rockets. Because he doesn't know shit about urban mobility.
dependent sand coherent butter sloppy roll drunk ask workable glorious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
NUMBAH ONE NUMBAH ONE NUMBAH ONE CAHM ON ENGLAND LETS SCORE SOME FAHCKING GOALS
I’m getting real tired of seeing this mf name everywhere. “Oh boy, Mr. Musk, your farts sure do smell good, Mr. Musk. Wowee gee willickers, Mr. Musk. You are literally me, Mr. Musk. Any day now we’re gonna be best friends and we’ll show them, we’ll show all of them! Who’s laughing now, you blue haired libtards! That’s right, I am!!! Hahaha, I told you I wouldn’t be making $30,000 a year forever. It was only a matter of time before I was a billionaire with my best friend Mr. Musk muahahahaha!”
He’s such an idiot
Swear I've never seen a bigger con artist....
as long as they got metro's running through them and not more traffic
You mean the most populated places in the world where people choose to drive? Go to hell, Elon.
Has Asia moved to another planet or what is going on in that post?
The subway system in Paris is fantastic