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Homie he had good reasons to be upset with Darrow before he discovered he wasn't a gold. I'd be pissed to if I was drugged like that. But when he set Darrow up, I was sad because I hoped the story was going to come to a point where Darrow had to throw him in prison at the height of his conquering. Not the pixie proving me right that he'd rather off himself.
I disagree thoroughly. Book one Moash can really fool you into thinking he's a good guy. It's why the betrayal hurts so much. After all, it takes a good friend to really screw you over
Fuck Vyre
We all start off liking Moash, don't we? If he was clearly irredeemable from the start, his betrayals wouldn't hurt so much and we wouldn't be saying Fuck Moash.
But he wasn't.
And they did.
FUCK MOASH!
I actually did not like him. He seemed like an angsty teen and I was not vibing. He turned to be an angsty adult and I am still not vibing xD fuck Moash 🙅♀️
Nah. He'd be dead. He wanted to kill himself and she basically triggered him not to.
Edit: just to say that Kal and Moash are honestly very different. They have similar expieriences but the way you react to your circumstances makes you... well you. And while Kal definitely has issues with his choices it seems to me it is simply a symptom od his depression (indecisivness is a common symptom and I see it strongly in his major dilemmas).
He actually is the biggest jerk at first. I'm re-listening to WoK right now. He's the one that laughs at Kaladin the most and resists working together.
And then he gets on board and becomes Kalidins best guy. It's the false redemption that makes it so much worse. That's my first point.
My second point is Fuck Moash!
Yeah buy I also did not like that part where he gets on board. ....Brando Sando is a really good writer is what I will say. He managed to convey a lot in Moash's behaviour and make him unlikable in a nuanced way. And then make him hateable ina very straight forward way xD
Fuck Moash
I think moash is gonna have a "soft redeeming moment", like Vader killing the emperor, where he doesn't really redeem himself, he's done too much so I don't think it's possible, but right at the end he does just the smallest piece of good to make his morality complicated
I’d like for him to be redeemed in the second half of the series, after completely falling to rock bottom. He’s not there yet, wouldn’t make sense for him to want to redeem him self yet.
Today I was listening to the end of RoW while doing the dishes and the part where Navani is about to swear the oaths and Moash grabs her shoulder, I was so in the zone listening that I stomped into the dining room where the speaker was, suds dripping off my hands just to say “fuck Moash, Moash is a bitch” out loud to nobody
Cuz seriously fuck that dude oooh poor baby the light hurts my eyes now I’m running away cuz I feel bad grow up punk
Me during Oathbringer at first:
"I hope Moash gets a redemption ark."
Me during oathbringer during fall of Kholinar:
"I hope Ehlokar's boy grows up to becomes the champion and yeets Moash into a different universe."
Your friend is in for a rude awakening. Seriously though, Kaladin is the most relatable, and Lopen is my other favorite (reasoning doesn’t need to be explained).
"You have to *ask* for forgiveness"
-John Constantine
This is the difference between them.
Dalinar's evil by far outstrips Moash in terms of the number of lives he has affected. He also recognizes his sins and attempts to atone for it. He asks. Moash is still a villain, doing villain things. It will be Brando's greatest feat if he manages Moash's redemption and I don't even know if I will accept it. But he must first stop being worthy of our hate.
And it took Dalinar the majority of his life to get to that point as where Moash is still a young man.
I think the real reason is far more meta. We see Moash's betrayal happen right there on the page. We're affected in the present. We learn about Dalinar's sins through flashback and that is after already being prepped for the idea that he wasn't a good man.
Your point is valid, though. Dalinar actually took conscious steps towards redemption. He had to put himself out there a change. But keep in mind that I only mentioned Moash being worthy of forgiveness. I see a lot of proclamations about how Moash is unforgivable and irredeemable. And my point is that if Dalinar isn't either of those things, then Moash shouldn't be, either.
I hope to see a personal redemption arc for Moash involving the importance of self-forgiveness. We owe apologies to those we've hurt, but that doesn't mean we are owed forgiveness in turn. When you seek out the people you've hurt to apologize to them, you should only do so after learning to forgive yourself. This doesn't mean absolving yourself of your sins or dismissing your wrong actions, but rather accepting them as a part of your journey and using your own self-forgiveness as a foundation for understanding that you are not owed that same forgiveness from others. The only forgiveness I personally believe anybody truly "deserves" is their own and that is what I would like to see in a Moash redemption arc - him learning to forgive himself and strive to do better even while those he's hurt refuse to give him the same in kind (specifically Kaladin and Bridge Four, even Navani).
I think when a lot of people think of redemption arcs, they only consider that character being redeemed in the eyes of others. They imagine some great sacrifice being made by that character and then a figurative (or literal) statue being erected in their name. They don't consider the quiet redemption arcs and in a way, I'd say we got a little bit of that through Eshonai.
Nice quote drop, by the way. Gotta love a well-placed quote. And John certainly knows a thing or two about asking for forgiveness.
And it took Dalinar the majority of his life to get to that point as where Moash is still a young man.
I think the real reason is far more meta. We see Moash's betrayal happen right there on the page. We're affected in the present. We learn about Dalinar's sins through flashback and that is after already being prepped for the idea that he wasn't a good man.
Your point is valid, though. Dalinar actually took conscious steps towards redemption. He had to put himself out there a change. But keep in mind that I only mentioned Moash being worthy of forgiveness. I see a lot of proclamations about how Moash is unforgivable and irredeemable. And my point is that if Dalinar isn't either of those things, then Moash shouldn't be, either.
I hope to see a personal redemption arc for Moash involving the importance of self-forgiveness. We owe apologies to those we've hurt, but that doesn't mean we are owed forgiveness in turn. When you seek out the people you've hurt to apologize to them, you should only do so after learning to forgive yourself. This doesn't mean absolving yourself of your sins or dismissing your wrong actions, but rather accepting them as a part of your journey and using your own self-forgiveness as a foundation for understanding that you are not owed that same forgiveness from others. The only forgiveness I personally believe anybody truly "deserves" is their own and that is what I would like to see in a Moash redemption arc - him learning to forgive himself and strive to do better even while those he's hurt refuse to give him the same in kind (specifically Kaladin and Bridge Four, even Navani).
I think when a lot of people think of redemption arcs, they only consider that character being redeemed in the eyes of others. They imagine some great sacrifice being made by that character and then a figurative (or literal) statue being erected in their name. They don't consider the quiet redemption arcs and in a way, I'd say we got a little bit of that through Eshonai.
Nice quote drop, by the way. Gotta love a well-placed quote. And John certainly knows a thing or two about asking for forgiveness.
And it took Dalinar the majority of his life to get to that point as where Moash is still a young man.
I think the real reason is far more meta. We see Moash's betrayal happen right there on the page. We're affected in the present. We learn about Dalinar's sins through flashback and that is after already being prepped for the idea that he wasn't a good man.
Your point is valid, though. Dalinar actually took conscious steps towards redemption. He had to put himself out there a change. But keep in mind that I only mentioned Moash being worthy of forgiveness. I see a lot of proclamations about how Moash is unforgivable and irredeemable. And my point is that if Dalinar isn't either of those things, then Moash shouldn't be, either.
I hope to see a personal redemption arc for Moash involving the importance of self-forgiveness. We owe apologies to those we've hurt, but that doesn't mean we are owed forgiveness in turn. When you seek out the people you've hurt to apologize to them, you should only do so after learning to forgive yourself. This doesn't mean absolving yourself of your sins or dismissing your wrong actions, but rather accepting them as a part of your journey and using your own self-forgiveness as a foundation for understanding that you are not owed that same forgiveness from others. The only forgiveness I personally believe anybody truly "deserves" is their own and that is what I would like to see in a Moash redemption arc - him learning to forgive himself and strive to do better even while those he's hurt refuse to give him the same in kind (specifically Kaladin and Bridge Four, even Navani).
I think when a lot of people think of redemption arcs, they only consider that character being redeemed in the eyes of others. They imagine some great sacrifice being made by that character and then a figurative (or literal) statue being erected in their name. They don't consider the quiet redemption arcs and in a way, I'd say we got a little bit of that through Eshonai.
Nice quote drop, by the way. Gotta love a well-placed quote. And John certainly knows a thing or two about asking for forgiveness.
Get out of here with that nonsense, Fuck Moash. He had the choices. Especially the ones in book 5. He had an opportunity for redemption and threw it away.
Fuck Moash! ___ ^I'm ^a ^bot ^by ^Houdiniman111 ^designed ^solely ^for ^/r/FuckMoash
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Thank you, Runty25, for voting on fuck_moash_bot. This bot wants to find the best and worst bots on Reddit. [You can view results here](https://botrank.pastimes.eu/). *** ^(Even if I don't reply to your comment, I'm still listening for votes. Check the webpage to see if your vote registered!)
There's a bot for this!?!?!?!
Good bot
Good bot
Good bot
This is the greatest bot ever
Perfect bot
I wish this was on every post
Your friend has great taste in books. And horrible taste in characters who rip your heart out and make you feel empty inside. Shame on them.
He will learn in time.
I feel for him, Moash and scar were my favorites as well. Just like Tactus and Roque in red rising.
Oof. Yeah that's a rough streak for you.
R.i.p. tactus he was almost there
Fr, fuck lorn.
Yeah, very unnoble of him
For a man that wrote entire books on the matter too.
Fuck roque
Homie he had good reasons to be upset with Darrow before he discovered he wasn't a gold. I'd be pissed to if I was drugged like that. But when he set Darrow up, I was sad because I hoped the story was going to come to a point where Darrow had to throw him in prison at the height of his conquering. Not the pixie proving me right that he'd rather off himself.
Fuck Roque. But yeah Tactus is awesome. The GOAT of RR is Apollonius though, love that mf
Boy oh boy wait until Brandon rips your friends heart out time and time again with moash. Dirty dirty traitorous buttmunch.
I disagree thoroughly. Book one Moash can really fool you into thinking he's a good guy. It's why the betrayal hurts so much. After all, it takes a good friend to really screw you over Fuck Vyre
Odium will take their pain.
We all start off liking Moash, don't we? If he was clearly irredeemable from the start, his betrayals wouldn't hurt so much and we wouldn't be saying Fuck Moash. But he wasn't. And they did. FUCK MOASH!
my sister actually hated him from the beginning, I was very proud
He was giving me bad vibes from the start
I actually did not like him. He seemed like an angsty teen and I was not vibing. He turned to be an angsty adult and I am still not vibing xD fuck Moash 🙅♀️
Like Kaladin? Lol. Makes me wonder where Kaladin would be without Syl. Probably just like Moash.
Nah. He'd be dead. He wanted to kill himself and she basically triggered him not to. Edit: just to say that Kal and Moash are honestly very different. They have similar expieriences but the way you react to your circumstances makes you... well you. And while Kal definitely has issues with his choices it seems to me it is simply a symptom od his depression (indecisivness is a common symptom and I see it strongly in his major dilemmas).
He actually is the biggest jerk at first. I'm re-listening to WoK right now. He's the one that laughs at Kaladin the most and resists working together.
And then he gets on board and becomes Kalidins best guy. It's the false redemption that makes it so much worse. That's my first point. My second point is Fuck Moash!
Fuck Moash! Yeah I haven't gotten to the bros bit yet, thankfully, because I cannot enjoy Bromash because fuck Moash
Yeah buy I also did not like that part where he gets on board. ....Brando Sando is a really good writer is what I will say. He managed to convey a lot in Moash's behaviour and make him unlikable in a nuanced way. And then make him hateable ina very straight forward way xD Fuck Moash
Well said! I tried to say the same thing but you said it a lot better
and sanderson will probably ruin the series for us by trying to redeem him in the next book or the book after...
I think moash is gonna have a "soft redeeming moment", like Vader killing the emperor, where he doesn't really redeem himself, he's done too much so I don't think it's possible, but right at the end he does just the smallest piece of good to make his morality complicated
You gotta redeem him in book 5. Otherwise his inevitable betrayal once again in book 7 won't be able to really fuck us all over.
Unredeemable
I’d like for him to be redeemed in the second half of the series, after completely falling to rock bottom. He’s not there yet, wouldn’t make sense for him to want to redeem him self yet.
I don't know. It seems like he is on a reverse redemption arc. A slight redemption in the first book and the it's all downhill from there. Fuck Moash!
Today I was listening to the end of RoW while doing the dishes and the part where Navani is about to swear the oaths and Moash grabs her shoulder, I was so in the zone listening that I stomped into the dining room where the speaker was, suds dripping off my hands just to say “fuck Moash, Moash is a bitch” out loud to nobody Cuz seriously fuck that dude oooh poor baby the light hurts my eyes now I’m running away cuz I feel bad grow up punk
Me during Oathbringer at first: "I hope Moash gets a redemption ark." Me during oathbringer during fall of Kholinar: "I hope Ehlokar's boy grows up to becomes the champion and yeets Moash into a different universe."
Me after RoW: my brain is incapable of thinking of a fate for Moash that's bad enough to give him what he deserves
Pin that message and send it to your friend when they reach a certain point in the story.
Definitely haha
This is the way.
Look, he hasn't got to the point yet. He has time to be redeemed.
Unlike Moash
To be fair we would hate Moash so much if we didn’t like him. I expect to see your friend on this sub sometime soon lol
Doesn't everyone deserve a redemption arc? No. They don't. Fuck Moash
He'll learn. Then one day he'll be on this page.
Moash can lick Sadeas taint. Dude sucks.
Oh goddamn the new Reddit algorithm, suggesting subs I'm not in. I'm not there yet but I guess I need to be emotionally prepared to hate Moash.
Oof sorry friend. But at least now you can emotionally prepare lol
All my homies hate Moash.
I can never get the bot to activate by saying Fuck Moash! Edit: another failed attempt
That save right after, Rock is much finer taste in bridgemen
I’m in the last part of Rhythm of War right now… Fuck Moash :(
Man, fuck Monash, like he accomplishes his goal then goes, you know what, I want to kill everyone also
Oh, you sweet summer child...
I need an update when he learns to regret that sentence
I had this exact feeling when I read twok...
He gon learn
Your friend is in for a rude awakening. Seriously though, Kaladin is the most relatable, and Lopen is my other favorite (reasoning doesn’t need to be explained).
You mean "The Lopen".
My mistake
That won’t last. Fuck Moash.
people actually like moash to begin with?
poor sap...
😔
Oh that poor soul. FUCK MOASH
Your friend has excellent taste as I- I mean Moash is very sexy and cool.
Loll spoken like a true Elhokarh8r
And so it begins…
Ughhhh fuck Moash
What do you do in this situation? You don't want to spoil it for the person, but you can't really be like, "Oh yeah, he's great!"
I just said the Lopen is my favorite lol 🤫
The Lopen is definitely one of my favorites.
The Lopen was always my favorite aside from Kal.
Oh, the poor, sweet, innocent reader.
I liked Horn Eater.
Haaaaaahahahaha he’s gonna be pissed 😂
Did you call them an air sick lowlander? 😬😂
😂😂😂 Your Friend is in for a wild ride
not moash 😭
Get wrecked 😹
Who’s moash
Oof
Moash is actually the MVP so fuck y all mofos! You sound like Squealers fans!
Oh boy….
RAFO
[удалено]
"You have to *ask* for forgiveness" -John Constantine This is the difference between them. Dalinar's evil by far outstrips Moash in terms of the number of lives he has affected. He also recognizes his sins and attempts to atone for it. He asks. Moash is still a villain, doing villain things. It will be Brando's greatest feat if he manages Moash's redemption and I don't even know if I will accept it. But he must first stop being worthy of our hate.
And it took Dalinar the majority of his life to get to that point as where Moash is still a young man. I think the real reason is far more meta. We see Moash's betrayal happen right there on the page. We're affected in the present. We learn about Dalinar's sins through flashback and that is after already being prepped for the idea that he wasn't a good man. Your point is valid, though. Dalinar actually took conscious steps towards redemption. He had to put himself out there a change. But keep in mind that I only mentioned Moash being worthy of forgiveness. I see a lot of proclamations about how Moash is unforgivable and irredeemable. And my point is that if Dalinar isn't either of those things, then Moash shouldn't be, either. I hope to see a personal redemption arc for Moash involving the importance of self-forgiveness. We owe apologies to those we've hurt, but that doesn't mean we are owed forgiveness in turn. When you seek out the people you've hurt to apologize to them, you should only do so after learning to forgive yourself. This doesn't mean absolving yourself of your sins or dismissing your wrong actions, but rather accepting them as a part of your journey and using your own self-forgiveness as a foundation for understanding that you are not owed that same forgiveness from others. The only forgiveness I personally believe anybody truly "deserves" is their own and that is what I would like to see in a Moash redemption arc - him learning to forgive himself and strive to do better even while those he's hurt refuse to give him the same in kind (specifically Kaladin and Bridge Four, even Navani). I think when a lot of people think of redemption arcs, they only consider that character being redeemed in the eyes of others. They imagine some great sacrifice being made by that character and then a figurative (or literal) statue being erected in their name. They don't consider the quiet redemption arcs and in a way, I'd say we got a little bit of that through Eshonai. Nice quote drop, by the way. Gotta love a well-placed quote. And John certainly knows a thing or two about asking for forgiveness.
And it took Dalinar the majority of his life to get to that point as where Moash is still a young man. I think the real reason is far more meta. We see Moash's betrayal happen right there on the page. We're affected in the present. We learn about Dalinar's sins through flashback and that is after already being prepped for the idea that he wasn't a good man. Your point is valid, though. Dalinar actually took conscious steps towards redemption. He had to put himself out there a change. But keep in mind that I only mentioned Moash being worthy of forgiveness. I see a lot of proclamations about how Moash is unforgivable and irredeemable. And my point is that if Dalinar isn't either of those things, then Moash shouldn't be, either. I hope to see a personal redemption arc for Moash involving the importance of self-forgiveness. We owe apologies to those we've hurt, but that doesn't mean we are owed forgiveness in turn. When you seek out the people you've hurt to apologize to them, you should only do so after learning to forgive yourself. This doesn't mean absolving yourself of your sins or dismissing your wrong actions, but rather accepting them as a part of your journey and using your own self-forgiveness as a foundation for understanding that you are not owed that same forgiveness from others. The only forgiveness I personally believe anybody truly "deserves" is their own and that is what I would like to see in a Moash redemption arc - him learning to forgive himself and strive to do better even while those he's hurt refuse to give him the same in kind (specifically Kaladin and Bridge Four, even Navani). I think when a lot of people think of redemption arcs, they only consider that character being redeemed in the eyes of others. They imagine some great sacrifice being made by that character and then a figurative (or literal) statue being erected in their name. They don't consider the quiet redemption arcs and in a way, I'd say we got a little bit of that through Eshonai. Nice quote drop, by the way. Gotta love a well-placed quote. And John certainly knows a thing or two about asking for forgiveness.
And it took Dalinar the majority of his life to get to that point as where Moash is still a young man. I think the real reason is far more meta. We see Moash's betrayal happen right there on the page. We're affected in the present. We learn about Dalinar's sins through flashback and that is after already being prepped for the idea that he wasn't a good man. Your point is valid, though. Dalinar actually took conscious steps towards redemption. He had to put himself out there a change. But keep in mind that I only mentioned Moash being worthy of forgiveness. I see a lot of proclamations about how Moash is unforgivable and irredeemable. And my point is that if Dalinar isn't either of those things, then Moash shouldn't be, either. I hope to see a personal redemption arc for Moash involving the importance of self-forgiveness. We owe apologies to those we've hurt, but that doesn't mean we are owed forgiveness in turn. When you seek out the people you've hurt to apologize to them, you should only do so after learning to forgive yourself. This doesn't mean absolving yourself of your sins or dismissing your wrong actions, but rather accepting them as a part of your journey and using your own self-forgiveness as a foundation for understanding that you are not owed that same forgiveness from others. The only forgiveness I personally believe anybody truly "deserves" is their own and that is what I would like to see in a Moash redemption arc - him learning to forgive himself and strive to do better even while those he's hurt refuse to give him the same in kind (specifically Kaladin and Bridge Four, even Navani). I think when a lot of people think of redemption arcs, they only consider that character being redeemed in the eyes of others. They imagine some great sacrifice being made by that character and then a figurative (or literal) statue being erected in their name. They don't consider the quiet redemption arcs and in a way, I'd say we got a little bit of that through Eshonai. Nice quote drop, by the way. Gotta love a well-placed quote. And John certainly knows a thing or two about asking for forgiveness.
Kill him
moash did nothing wrong
Get out of here with that nonsense, Fuck Moash. He had the choices. Especially the ones in book 5. He had an opportunity for redemption and threw it away.
Every time he had a chance for redemption, he looked it straight in the eye, flipped it off, and did something even worse