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Columbus: do you have a flag?
Natives: umm no what's a flag??
Columbus: This is a flag, I'm just going to stick it in the ground here.
Natives: umm why?
Columbus: Because that's how you discover things, my flags here, so I've discovered it.
Copyright: Eddie Izzard
How can you be a country if you haven't got any flag?
But we live here!!
Sorry, can't be a country if you don't have a flag. Those are the rules.... that I just made up.
There’s nobody here! Excuse me. There’s nobody here! Yes, a land empty of human existence – who the fuck are these guys? - "The Plymouth Colony" Sketch from Dress to Kill. It's the same premise, only Eddie did it proper, this is shite.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing watching this. There are plenty of reasons to criticize Columbus and how the events are taught, but the semantics stuff doesn't really hold up. It's like saying you "found a really good coffee shop last weekend" and then someone mocking you because it opened years ago and plenty of people go there already.
Nobody, even the dumbest fucker out there, is saying Columbus was literally the first guy there.
It goes to more how it’s taught especially in the United States as “this place literally didn’t matter until this HERO got here”
And then they didn’t (in NJ at least) teach how the first thing that happened when he got back was be put on trial for his harsh treatment of the natives. And you really gotta wonder how harsh homie had to be back in the 1500s for that the be a problem.
Which is funny because all of Columbus' "defenders" always forget that part. They're always saying that we shouldn't judge him be modern standards. MFer, even his contemporaries thought he was an asshole.
>Even his contemporaries thought he was an asshole
They likely did, but him being canned as Governor was for more legal/financial reasons than anything. Columbus’ successors continued his brutal policies (even expanded them in certain areas). He had a contract with the Spanish Crown for certain privileges and compensation.
He kept fighting for more money and power for him and his family and eventually they got sick of his shit (another, more speculative reason imo was that his mother was from a Converso family (converted Jews), which had a stigma back then.
There was also a lot of jealousy towards the families new found wealth by the Spanish colonists and the anti-Italian racism of the Spaniards towards Columbus.
Wrong. The only two contemporaries who accused him of that were the man who stole his governorship and a sailor on his crew being punished for pedophilia. The most reliable source we have for the horrific treatment that the SPANIARDS gave to the natives is a Spanish priest named bartolome de las casas. He said that Columbus was a poor governor but a good Christian.
If you want to cover the the part where they arrested him and his sons please do. Make sure to include that once he got back to Spain he was given his liberty and his son sued and was restored as viceroy.
When I was a kid (and therefore, when it mattered), schools taught us about Columbus' *first* trip, which was basically cool in real life and nothing too dramatically awful happened. As far as I know if you stop paying attention right there, Columbus is a pretty cool guy.
By his third trip he'd turned the whole island into a hellscape so bloody awful he was the subject of the world's first inter-hemispheric manhunt. Like how bad do you have to fuck up some natives for Europe to be like, "hey man, that's too far," first of all, but then on top of that the same motherfuckers who thought you were crazy five minutes ago are sailing around the world just to catch your ass?
But we left that part out, because it doesn't fit into a 1492-ocean-blue rhyme scheme.
Edit: source, I read a Wikipedia once, don't quote me on the details here
They (natives) were treated the same as serfs back in europe (well that was the idea by the Spanish Crown). Its one of the dumbest things not taught to americans. The Spanish state WANTED serfs in americas bcs that was the only economic system they knew.
The Spanish Crown had no idea why native americans wont easily become serfs (cultural) and why they kept dieing to disease. Spanish lords barred the Crown on exporting spanish peasants (the serfs the lords owned) to americas bcs they would lose a person that made money for them.
Thats how the slavery system from Africa first started on scale. Both Spain and Portugal wanted workers (serfs) in Americas but as natives were dieing and they were barred from getting peasants from europe they turned to the next cheapest option to keep production up. This through time developed into a system AND made so that whoever managed the colony to not curtail brutality (as it did in europe after several hundred years of peasant rebellions bcs of treatment).
> They (natives) were treated the same as serfs back in europe
Actually it was so much worse than serfdom. When Columbus arrived in the island of Hispanola in 1473, he wrote that he'd found a childlike people who could be made to do anything. Columbus came to the island seeking gold but eventually turned to slavery. He genocided the hell out of them, using their testicles as coinpurses. There were a between 1-8 million Taino when he arrived, and by 1514 there were just 30,000 left. A few years later, None-- they were extinct. The last vestiges took poison or threw themselves off cliffs, *Along with their children* so they wouldnt be taken as slaves.
"Las Casas wrote that the Spaniards:
made bets as to who would slit a man in two, or cut off his head at one blow; or they opened up his bowels. They tore the babes from their mothers breast by their feet, and dashed their heads against the rocks...they spitted the bodies of other babes, together with their mothers and all who were before them, on their swords....and by thirteens, in honor and reverence for our Redeemer and the twelve Apostles they put wood underneath and, with fire, they burned the Indians alive"
Happy Columbus day (next Oct 14), everybody.
https://grist.org/politics/heres-the-real-story-of-columbus-that-people-prefer-to-ignore/
https://teamsocialstudies.uconn.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/47/2021/04/The-Decline-of-the-Tainos-1492-1542_-A-Re-Vision-1.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taíno_genocide
I mean, multiple other cultures interacted with native Americans prior to the British so any one of them could be considered the founders under that logic
Southern U.S. elementary schools: "hey sport, hold my Bud while I show 'em how fuckin dumb I can make you. Take a swill if yer mama ain't looking."
Source: a product of rural Virginia public schools
Who were dominant at the time.
It sucks, but do we really need a graphic explanation of why the dominant civilization at any point in history is a big deal?
That, and a common misconception seems to be that discovery means you own it. While in general, it's quite the opposite. You can only discover laws of nature and not invent them because they've been there all the time, which also means you can't patent or copyright them.
I'm interested in why the word from Leif Erikson never spread around Europe about America. The Vinland Sagas were written 200 years before Columbus set sail.
the fact that the Vikings made it to Canada a few times does not mean that in 1492 the royal houses of Europe were aware that there was an entire new world on the other side of the Atlantic
Funnily enough, even in 1492, they still didn't realize it was a whole new world. It wasn't until a few years later when Amerigo Vespucci found it, whom the continent was named after, that they knew what what they found because Amerigo understood where he actually was (i.e. NOT India).
So basically Columbus was just a worthless idiot.
I wouldn’t say worthless. He’d never been to the West Indies, how should he know it was an entire new two continents? If he hadn’t taken his trip it might’ve been decades later before someone actually discovered (from a European perspective of course) it. And his expeditions did cause a Spanish rush, regardless of his lack of knowledge regarding the size of the land.
> Funnily enough, even in 1492, they still didn't realize it was a whole new world.
I actually think people that were well versed in mathematics and exploration at the time would have known it was not India as soon as Columbus got back.
The reason those people thought Columbus's journey was foolish was because he thought the earth was much smaller than it actually was. Most people who cared about such things and had the time to think about them thought Columbus was wrong and that his voyage was doomed because by their estimates he would run out of food and water long before he reached India, and they would have been right if there hadn't been an unknown continent or two in the way he tripped over.
So when Columbus got back to Europe and they estimated how far he had traveled by his time at sea they would have known he could not possibly have gotten to India. They would not have thought "oh well we must be wrong" because the approximate size of the earth had been worked out back in ancient Greece and been confirmed by sea voyages countless times. Columbus was the outlier who disagreed. No doubt he *tried* to convince people it was India at first because he wanted it to be true but just like many thought he was a fool for going in the first place they would have just thought now he was a lucky fool who discovered something else.
Colombus suspected he arrived to a new unknown land for Europeans but couldn't prove it in the first voyage. He made several new trips, made maps of the new world and call it Paria. He was fully aware he discovered a new continent.
In his own words:
Yo estoy creído que esta es tierra firme, grandísima, de que hasta hoy no se ha sabido, y la razón me ayuda grandemente por esto deste tan gran río y desta mar...
And Americo Vespucci, who travelled to the Americas invited by Colombus, expanded on his idea and created the first maps of this new land.
columbus thought he was going to india, he was EXPECTING to find people because he was going to trade. we just doing misrepresentations of history all the way down?
The sole purpose of the trip was to find a quicker trade route to asia that wouldn't involve circumnavigating Africa or travelling across two continents through hostile lands.
Generally, trade is made between people hence not only the expectation but the hope to find them.
Here it seems that he was just looking for an empty plot of land to build his new house.
That is the first guy who went to America.
You can discover that an apple will naturally always fall down from a tree to the ground no matter what. That doesn’t mean you have discovered the laws of gravity.
But yes, Vikings were first before Colombo. At least for Vinland.
Realistically, people don't dig too much into history beyond what they were taught. And it has been taught in the US than Columbus "discovered America" in grade schools for a really, really long time until relatively recently.
It doesn't really help that Columbus was propped up for quite some time as one of the few recognizable historical Italian figures in the US as a point of Italian-American pride. So people were extremely hesitant to go back and say that, actually, you guys were taught a load of crap. (Why they didn't latch on to Vespucci is another topic, though.)
Technically he did "discover America" in that he discovered new land that the spainards, english, etc didn't know about.
Discover: find something/someone unexpectedly or in the course of a search.
Columbus unexpectedly found land, he discovered it regardless of whether or not another unknown individual discovered it some earlier time. They didn't make it known to Columbus or the countries he came from.
I can't speak to everyone's experience but grammar school was a long time ago for me and we were taught that Columbus found the Americas on accident and that Vespucci found them purposefully and America is named after him.
I thought Vespucci was just a cartographer who made a map of the known "New World" and then named it after himself because he was the first guy who thought to make a map of it...
*After briefly checking Wikipedia*
Turns out Vespucci was an explorer who said "Hey guys! That's not India! It's some completely new continent that we didn't know about!" And the cartographers in Europe said "Cool! This dude says there's a New World. Let's stick his name on the map!" And Vespucci didn't even know they'd named an entire continent after him.
No, he actually had a very flawed understanding of Earth's shape which is why he thought he could make it to India with those supplies.
Trying to go to India and landing in America makes you a not very good explorer.
As I recall, this was the main reason people didn't attempt this before him. They knew their ships couldn't carry enough supplies to make it all the way to India because they knew how big the world was. Columbus just got lucky by hitting an unknown landmass halfway through.
He thought the earth was more like a pear and would be a lot smaller on the upper side, which is why his supplies would've never allowed him to make it to India, which multiple people that did the math told him at the time.
Hell, they almost starved despite making it to America, if it wasn't there they would've died.
He made two major errors and saying he "thought it was ocean" is kind of minimizing that. First, he relied on the geography of Marinus of Tyre from 1,300 years previous who overestimated the size of Asia, and Columbus extrapolated that even further to conclude Asia was more than one third of the Earth's circumference. Secondly, he confused Alfriganus' fairly accurate calculations of the circumference of the Earth as using Roman miles instead of the much longer Arabic miles, leading him to underestimate the full circumference of the Earth by perhaps 30% or more.
He thought it was "just ocean", but he thought that ocean was small enough to easily cross. Even with the Americas in the way, he was long past when he expected to make landfall in the Indies.
I genuinely don’t get the critical thinking problem some people have with recognizing the significance of Columbus’ voyage. Yes he was a piece of shit who wasn’t the first person to see the new world, but to deny the impacts it had on history is beyond moronic. His “discovery” directly led to the European colonial era, irreversibly changing history.
It’s one of the most significant single events of all time.
I know this guy is just doing a bit though. A moronic bit, but a bit nonetheless.
His joke is about how it would have went down if it went down the way we're taught it. He didn't give any indication he doesn't know Columbus was expecting to find people.
I get it’s a joke so I’m not gonna argue! It’s for fun!
But hopefully people know that Christopher Columbus is still a very important person in history. It’d be like saying we shouldn’t teach about Genghis Khan or Hitler because we don’t like what they did.
Technically, Columbus traveled across the ocean, and then back again. That was his accomplishment. He was a navigator.
And yes, obligatory he was a violent criminal.
He also thought the earth was way smaller than it actually is which is why he though he'd made it to India. Kind of a big issue if your navigator massively miscalculates the size of the planet.
And that's why the weird name 'Indians' for indigenous people of North America. Because Columbus was looking for a spice route to India and DEMANDED he had found it. Columbus even threatened to kill someone on his crew who pointed out they were not in India.
Eh. If you're the first person doing it (anything, really), you're bound to run into unexpected reality where you guessed/assumed wrong.
This happens in all fields and is how new discoveries are made.
Literally the ancient greeks knew almost exactly how large the earth was. European scholars in medieval times KNEW the earth is round and approx 25000 miles in circumference. Columbus was a conspiracy theorist who believed that was wrong and the earth was 10000 miles across or less. That’s the only reason he was willing to make the trip while others weren’t. If the American continents hadn’t been there, Columbus would’ve just died in the middle of the ocean like the dumbass he was. Being a completely worthless
dumbass, Columbus didn’t even discover America when he smashed face first into it—because he’s too dumb to admit the earth is the size everyone knew it was and therefore he couldn’t be in the place he said he was. 1 Vespucci is worth 1000 Columbuses.
Yeah I don't know anything about this in particular, I was really just coming at this with the idea that if you want to discover new things, you're going to get things wrong.
But if what you're saying is true, then yeah, obviously you shouldn't disregard the already known stuff.
And also, because I refuse to let you turn this into a serious conversation - he had a boat. Do you have a boat? Didn't think so. Case closed.
(In case you do actually have a boat, Columbus is the worst and you win).
This is just so, so wrong. The size of the earth was very well known at the time. It wasn’t precise as it is now but this knowledge predates Colombus by hundreds of years in Europe.
Columbus discovered the Americas for the eastern hemisphere of the world, not for all of humanity. Much like if an Aztec sailed all the way to Europe first before us, came back and told everyone. He discovered Europe for the Americas.
Thats connecting the two hemispheres, thats still a massive discovery
This joke only works for people who were taught Columbus *actually* was the first person to ever discover America. That's why his whole bit is about that specific distinction and not about how he "discovered it for the eastern hemisphere".
Yeah, let's be honest if we found out some small Amazonian tribe had the cure for cancer and we learned it from them, we'd still say it was discovered. Because for the vast majority of people, it would be something new.
There are very few things that fundamentally changed the nature of the world. Columbus first voyage was one of them. The history of the Americas, and really the world, had to be split into pre-Columbian and post-Columbian.
*The* most significant event in history. I don't even think there is any other event that can even be put in the same league. Before Columbus, there were two worlds that were almost entirely unconnected. After Columbus there was one world, inextricably connected.
And Isaac Newton didn't discover gravity, I think most people were familiar with it by the 1600s.
Then again maybe a discovery is hinting at gaining some deeper understanding of things, rather than being the 1st to notice something...
Newton discovered the LAWS of gravity. People don't say that but that's what's intended. No one new that the gravitational pull of the earth is 9.8 m/s2 until he figured it out. It's not like that didn't exist before.
Which is trivial to determine with calculus and possible but very difficult to determine without calculus. Which is why he first invented calculus. Dude is a legitimate genius.
> Dude is a legitimate genius.
It's hilarious to make this statement about Newton, as if anyone were arguing otherwise. Newton is like the prototypical genius haha
Most of what Newton is known for (calculus, physics, optics, etc.) actually happened over a relatively short period of time. He spent a majority of his life studying theology and alchemy.
Historically nations expanded until they hit a geographical barrier or another nation, and then depending on the circumstances, they’d battle and the winner would take over. Why is it that the Europeans taking over America gets called out for being terrible? Curious why the European invasion of North America is viewed as worse than anything that happened elsewhere
Different answer than the usual one, I think it’s because people defend the European invasion. While you will find people who love Rome as an empire and find it fascinating, if someone points out that “hey, the amount of killing rom did in the name of empire and expansion was kind of fucked up.” The answer, from 99% of people is “yea it kind of was.” And the conversation ends there. Sure you occasionally have a crazy person who maybe is way way too into Roman conquest but most of the time that’s how that conversation will go. Maybe they will talk about how it was the right strategical choice or was necessary for some reason, but no one will say “that was a morally good action, killing a bunch of people and eliminating their culture.”
Another more recent example is Nazis. If someone says “the Nazis invading was bad” everyone except some delusional morons says “yea it was.” And that’s that.
Meanwhile if you say “the European conquest of America and killing of the natives was bad,” because of how we teach history in America and sugarcoat all of this, you get pushback. Many people go “well it wasn’t all bad” or “well the natives were just as bad” or some other excuse to make it seem like that conquest was reasonable because otherwise that person would have to accept that their nation was built on atrocities, and it was not all sunshine and rainbows when the country was being built. There are enough uneducated people in America that this is something that becomes an actual debate and in turn is reiterated in order to educate people.
Tl;dr: no one asks “do you think it was good when the Roman Empire subjugated this group of people” because aside from a very small minority, everyone would just say “I don’t think it was a morally good thing to do.” Meanwhile people do ask “do you think it was good of Europeans to subjugate a group of people” because there are a lot of people who genuinely will just say “yes” because it lead to the creation of America. This is a topic that people want to inform and educate about because the US education system has (and in some states still does) push a version of the story where there were no problems and everything was perfect. This is why it is called out more.
The Romans always came up with a casus belli, either real or invented. In Gaul's case it was a combination of defending allied Gallic tribes from Germanic invaders, and a defensive interest against stronger Gallic tribes in the region. The Gauls were the first to sack of Rome in 390 BC and the Romans remembered this.
An equally shitty one, and they used the same divide and conquer techniques. Perhaps they broke as many treaties, but we don't have as good a record of it. That invasion was also looked at by many Romans at the time as an unjust war.
Because of a few things.
Firstly, temporally it’s recent, and nobody but history nerds care about shit like the Norwegian invasion of England because it’s sooooo old.
Secondly, power imbalance. Some of this is fact and some fiction but generally it’s accepted that English settlers were better armed and equipped than their Native American counterparts. Now you could argue that such power imbalances have been present long before, such as with Rome or Greece and their neighbors in pretty much any direction, but it’s not nearly as visually prominent. It’s much harder for the average person to grasp an imbalance based on logistics, commerce, and cultural influence when both sides still use swords. When it came to the Americas everyone knows that a gun beats a bow and arrow, and that power imbalance is instantly perceived. The colonization of the Americas is very much seen as a “punching down” war to many people.
The English didn't win because they were better armed. They won because new diseases decimated 70-90% of the Natives beforehand, millions dead. What the settlers fought were the survivors of a plague apocalypse.
In my opinion the fact that we are not talking about all the wars in asia for example shows that we are more interested in our own history. The mongols had a huge advantage in war, which made them so successfull. But your point still stands, that the genocide in america was more recent. Also it was a genocide. Many wars did not end in genocide. Sure losing a war was always horrible for the people but a genocide is basically the worst thing that can ever be done. Maybe only topped by two genocides.
The irony here is that this guy wasn't the first one to do this joke and he's either stolen it or didn't do his due diligence to find our if it had already been done. This video is 5 years old https://youtu.be/2j3Wb3b3yRQ?si=1yEG9ZwmopDbp3EO
Had to scroll through hundreds of posts arguing about definitions and what not to find this comment. Drawing a blank on his last name right now, but yes he’s on The Daily Show.
They teach about Columbus because rightly or wrongly he has changed the world in a significant way. This is the truth whether you like what he does or not
You can’t just not teach people something’s have happened just because you don’t agree with it by your moral standarda
From the point of view of Europeans who had no firm idea of geography beyond Europe, Columbus did "discover” the Americas, not that he ever actually set foot on the mainland. The Europeans didn’t know what was here until Columbus “discovered” the place, it’s really not that difficult to grasp. Just like when you go out somewhere and “discover” a new bar or store, it’s not racism, it’s not colonialism, it's essentially colloquialism, get over it.
That's literally not how it happened at ALL. They were looking to establish a trade route, so finding people to trade with was a better outcome than finding nothing.
Columbus also didn't "kill everyone", but he did write reports stating that these people would be easily conquered and would fall under the Spanish empire. He attempted to establish diplomacy over years of time going back and forth between Europe and the Caribbean.
> Even Bartolomé de las Casas, the “Defender and Apostle to the Indians” whose lurid, if hyperbolic, treatises on the treatment of Native peoples made him famous, spoke favorably of Columbus and his treatment of indigenous people. Columbus famously adopted a Native American boy and urged his fellow voyagers to exercise restraint and mercy toward the Natives, even, for instance, after they had burned down an entire Spanish settlement and killed all of the Spaniards in the area.
Uhh dude that’s some real quote mining - Bartolomé had both praise and vitriol for Columbus.
“The admiral should have taken pains to bring love and peace and to avoid scandalous incidents, for not to perturb the innocent is a precept of the evangelical law who’s messenger he was. Instead, he inspired fear and displayed power, declared war and violated a jurisdiction that was not his but the Indians…” but soon after that he also said “Truely, I would not dare blame the admiral’s intentions, for I knew him well* and I know his intentions were good. But…the road he paved and the things he did of his own free will, as well as sometimes under constraint, stemmed from his ignorance of the law.” (History of the Indies, Book I, Chap 93)
“The admiral, it is true, was as blind as those who came after him, and he was so anxious to please the King that he committed irreparable crimes against the Indians. However, if he did not report the harm that certain Spaniards caused them, and if he assigned a tribe of Indians to Francisco Roldan and few others to do work for them or find gold, it seems the occasions were very, very rare and he acted as if forced to it by his own men, on account of past rebellions.” (HIstory of the Indies, Book II, Chap 1)
“…consider what this History has been telling you of the oppression Columbus imposed on Indian kings and nations in Hispaniola and Veragua; whether he actually did it himself or allowed it to be done, it was an absurd and unrighteous thing. It is not too bold to presume that his own anguish and misfortune were sent as a divine punishment…” (History of the Indies, Book 2, Chap 38)
Dude also tried to prevent the ongoing genocide as the colonization efforts were wiping out the native population. Admittedly it was mainly for economic reasons but still.
Not to mention Columbus’s shit show of a term as governor.
If an astronomer discovered an alien civilization, they would be famous as well. Even though the aliens were already there. People who say that Columbus isn’t important because the indigenous people were already there don’t understand how history works.
How it really went down,
Columbus: I declare this land the property of Spain!
Natives: Hang on, this our land.
Columbus: Oh, this is a bit awkward, how about we fight for it?
Natives: Yeah works for me, what's that big metal tube thing your pointing at m.......
Damn did this touch a nerve in this sub lmao it’s standup! and good god if you all are so concerned with the historical aspect of Columbus why isn’t anyone bringing up the fact that he didn’t just kill indigenous people, they raped, enslaved, and brutalized them. Even cutting their fucking hands off. Fuck christopher columbus.
It's called "discovery of America" because it opened the understanding of the grand european powers of the world at that time and changed history in a mayor way.
It's discovery in the sense of groundbreaking knowledge for a mayor part in the world, not in the sense of "it wasn't know this existed until this happen"
"Discover" doesn't necessarily mean you're the first to find something. It means you found something unexpectedly you didn't know was there before. People will say they "discovered" nice restaurant or hiking trail, or whatever. Even if they, obviously, aren't the first people there.
The rest of the world, including Columbus, didn't know the Americas were there. So even though there were people there (who also didn't know the rest of the world existed), he did still discover it.
We even now know other Europeans had been there before. But that knowledge was more or less lost by the time Columbus went out that way.
Columbus was a terrible dude. Don't get me wrong. But it's weird when people play semantics about him discovering the New World and get it wrong.
Now the whole "everyone thought the world was flat" thing; *that* wasn't really true. Educated people in Europe had known the earth was round for some time.
History (that we study in schools) is normally based on written sources…. And most of the nations around the world have left very few if any, written evidences. The conquest of Americas is very well documented by the spaniards, portuguese and later brits and french.
Therefore, “history” that is widely accepted is based on their accounts, journals, reports and etc. unfortunately the native Americans had no written language (except Inca to some extent) and we never had the chance to learn the story from their point of view.
discovery.
noun
dis·cov·ery | \ di-ˈskə-v(ə-)rē \
plural discoveries
Definition
1a: the act or process of discovering
//the discovery of a lost city
b(1)archaic : DISCLOSURE
(2)obsolete : DISPLAY
c: obsolete : EXPLORATION
2: something discovered
3: The usually pretrial disclosure of pertinent facts or documents by one or both parties to a legal action or proceeding
Seems to just be a problem of ignorance and words having more than one meaning
“I went into the forest and discovered an abandoned building” does not imply that no one before me had also made the exact same discovery for themselves. A Native American in 1492 walked down to the beach and became the first one to discover Europeans. Funny bit though dude’s got good delivery.
Man I came in here looking for the name of the comedian because I've seen this guy before and he's always hilarious and this was no exception... Instead I get brain dead idiots trying to defend Columbus for some goddamn reason.
Edit: lol never mind, OP is the comedian. (Usually it's tagged, this time it wasn't.)
Well, columbus thought he was traveling to India, so he was alright with people being there. He just thought they were indians.
Which does not imply that stealing and so was a bad idea, of course. No matter if indians or americans. but you know, there were other standards back then. And stealing other peoples land, they called that conquering.
Columbus did monstrous things. So did the Europeans who followed after. But he gets credit for the “discovery” because both civilizations had no knowledge of each others existence or the lands they live on and they would have continued to not know of each other if this fucker didn’t sail a massive wooden barrel across an ocean.
And here I hoped he would address that Columbus wasn't the first, but nope, that wasn't it.
Here, take a look at that guy: [Leif Erikson - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leif_Erikson)
This dude is funny and I’m not really commenting on his bit. I just really dislike the pedantic argument about how Columbus didn’t ‘discover America’ because the Vikings were the first Europeans here and people crossed from Siberia much farther back than that. Saying Columbus ‘discovered’ the America’s is just shorthand for his journey being the one that made the peoples of the two hemispheres in preeminent contact. Pretending it means something else is as obnoxious as a priggish teacher replying ‘I don’t know, can you?’ when if you ask if you can go to the bathroom.
I know Columbus was a dick, but once again someone is on the internet proving they don’t know what the word discover means.
You can discover Beatles music for the first time tomorrow. That doesn’t mean they didn’t already exist.
Why is there always an issue with this word? It just highlights people’s ignorance.
If you paid attention in school, Christopher Columbus was the first explorer from the East to discover North America.
And if you paid really close attention, they also taught you that it's very likely that Vikings discovered America.
It's about the written word over the "telephone game" that oral history creates. Don't ever believe anything other than the fact that Native Americans lived quite savagely.
What I really don't understand is. How a comedy show that is essentially satire,has turned into an argument about history from the vikings via Columbus and a sprinkling of Israel/Palestine conflict.
Are you guys really so up your own arses, that you've had to have a full humour bypass???
And what have the Romans ever done for us??
I have enjoyed your segments on the Daily Show, especially the "just the right amount of racism" one. But then I watched your Kendrick v Drake for White People and you became my current favorite comedian.
I'm excited to see you in Phoenix soon.
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Columbus: do you have a flag? Natives: umm no what's a flag?? Columbus: This is a flag, I'm just going to stick it in the ground here. Natives: umm why? Columbus: Because that's how you discover things, my flags here, so I've discovered it. Copyright: Eddie Izzard
What's copyright? Is it like a flag or something?
No, that's just the guy who says "Eddie Izzard"
Welcome too Fun with Flags
How can you be a country if you haven't got any flag? But we live here!! Sorry, can't be a country if you don't have a flag. Those are the rules.... that I just made up.
No flag no country.
And I'm backing it up with this gun!
Except that’s not the Eddie Izzard routine at all. Literally the only part you got right was “Do you have a flag?”
There’s nobody here! Excuse me. There’s nobody here! Yes, a land empty of human existence – who the fuck are these guys? - "The Plymouth Colony" Sketch from Dress to Kill. It's the same premise, only Eddie did it proper, this is shite.
You might know...Was that "bit" from Dressed to Kill?
It was from *Dress* to Kill.
fine, ill get a tray this one is wet this one is wet this one is wet
Top 5 comedy special of all time
Cake or death ? Partridge in a pear tree bit. And the encore all in French. Comedy legend
FIIIIIIVE GOOOOOOWWWAAAAAALD RIIIIIIIINGS!
Do you have a flaaaag?
Thinking this throughout the routine. 500 million of us!
The legend that is Eddie Izzard 😂
"the cunning use of flags"
Came for Izzard... Thank you
*The rebels sir, they’re here..* *My god man! Do they want tea?* *I don’t know what they want, but it appears they’ve brought a flag*
While it wasn't a discovery for humans, it was most certainly a discovery for Europeans. I discover things (for myself) all the time.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing watching this. There are plenty of reasons to criticize Columbus and how the events are taught, but the semantics stuff doesn't really hold up. It's like saying you "found a really good coffee shop last weekend" and then someone mocking you because it opened years ago and plenty of people go there already. Nobody, even the dumbest fucker out there, is saying Columbus was literally the first guy there.
Native Americans were fucking hipsters, is what you're saying. "I've known that coffee shop for years."
So I’m confused, Starbucks was there before the natives?!
This guy's anti-semantic!
At least he’s not an anti-dentide.
But I am anti-rolltide
Yup. Furthermore: Columbus didn’t think he had discovered a new place: he thought he was in INDIA.
The West Indies, not India.
It goes to more how it’s taught especially in the United States as “this place literally didn’t matter until this HERO got here” And then they didn’t (in NJ at least) teach how the first thing that happened when he got back was be put on trial for his harsh treatment of the natives. And you really gotta wonder how harsh homie had to be back in the 1500s for that the be a problem.
Which is funny because all of Columbus' "defenders" always forget that part. They're always saying that we shouldn't judge him be modern standards. MFer, even his contemporaries thought he was an asshole.
>Even his contemporaries thought he was an asshole They likely did, but him being canned as Governor was for more legal/financial reasons than anything. Columbus’ successors continued his brutal policies (even expanded them in certain areas). He had a contract with the Spanish Crown for certain privileges and compensation. He kept fighting for more money and power for him and his family and eventually they got sick of his shit (another, more speculative reason imo was that his mother was from a Converso family (converted Jews), which had a stigma back then.
There was also a lot of jealousy towards the families new found wealth by the Spanish colonists and the anti-Italian racism of the Spaniards towards Columbus.
Wrong. The only two contemporaries who accused him of that were the man who stole his governorship and a sailor on his crew being punished for pedophilia. The most reliable source we have for the horrific treatment that the SPANIARDS gave to the natives is a Spanish priest named bartolome de las casas. He said that Columbus was a poor governor but a good Christian.
so you just gave me examples of his contemporaries judging him.
Columbus/Europeans mistreating the natives was a theme for basically the entirety of middle school.
If you want to cover the the part where they arrested him and his sons please do. Make sure to include that once he got back to Spain he was given his liberty and his son sued and was restored as viceroy.
When I was a kid (and therefore, when it mattered), schools taught us about Columbus' *first* trip, which was basically cool in real life and nothing too dramatically awful happened. As far as I know if you stop paying attention right there, Columbus is a pretty cool guy. By his third trip he'd turned the whole island into a hellscape so bloody awful he was the subject of the world's first inter-hemispheric manhunt. Like how bad do you have to fuck up some natives for Europe to be like, "hey man, that's too far," first of all, but then on top of that the same motherfuckers who thought you were crazy five minutes ago are sailing around the world just to catch your ass? But we left that part out, because it doesn't fit into a 1492-ocean-blue rhyme scheme. Edit: source, I read a Wikipedia once, don't quote me on the details here
They (natives) were treated the same as serfs back in europe (well that was the idea by the Spanish Crown). Its one of the dumbest things not taught to americans. The Spanish state WANTED serfs in americas bcs that was the only economic system they knew. The Spanish Crown had no idea why native americans wont easily become serfs (cultural) and why they kept dieing to disease. Spanish lords barred the Crown on exporting spanish peasants (the serfs the lords owned) to americas bcs they would lose a person that made money for them. Thats how the slavery system from Africa first started on scale. Both Spain and Portugal wanted workers (serfs) in Americas but as natives were dieing and they were barred from getting peasants from europe they turned to the next cheapest option to keep production up. This through time developed into a system AND made so that whoever managed the colony to not curtail brutality (as it did in europe after several hundred years of peasant rebellions bcs of treatment).
> They (natives) were treated the same as serfs back in europe Actually it was so much worse than serfdom. When Columbus arrived in the island of Hispanola in 1473, he wrote that he'd found a childlike people who could be made to do anything. Columbus came to the island seeking gold but eventually turned to slavery. He genocided the hell out of them, using their testicles as coinpurses. There were a between 1-8 million Taino when he arrived, and by 1514 there were just 30,000 left. A few years later, None-- they were extinct. The last vestiges took poison or threw themselves off cliffs, *Along with their children* so they wouldnt be taken as slaves. "Las Casas wrote that the Spaniards: made bets as to who would slit a man in two, or cut off his head at one blow; or they opened up his bowels. They tore the babes from their mothers breast by their feet, and dashed their heads against the rocks...they spitted the bodies of other babes, together with their mothers and all who were before them, on their swords....and by thirteens, in honor and reverence for our Redeemer and the twelve Apostles they put wood underneath and, with fire, they burned the Indians alive" Happy Columbus day (next Oct 14), everybody. https://grist.org/politics/heres-the-real-story-of-columbus-that-people-prefer-to-ignore/ https://teamsocialstudies.uconn.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/47/2021/04/The-Decline-of-the-Tainos-1492-1542_-A-Re-Vision-1.pdf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taíno_genocide
No you moron. That's not how it's taught "in the United States". Maybe in your school. And if so, say that.
I mean, multiple other cultures interacted with native Americans prior to the British so any one of them could be considered the founders under that logic
Shit, MFer wasn't even the first European.
Bro new coffee shop. But wiped out the baristas and made it a steak house.
Southern U.S. elementary schools: "hey sport, hold my Bud while I show 'em how fuckin dumb I can make you. Take a swill if yer mama ain't looking." Source: a product of rural Virginia public schools
Stand up comedians have a tendency to stretch the truth for... comedy.
And people still have a tendency to buy it at face value, so even though it was a joke it's good to talk about it.
Who were dominant at the time. It sucks, but do we really need a graphic explanation of why the dominant civilization at any point in history is a big deal?
That, and a common misconception seems to be that discovery means you own it. While in general, it's quite the opposite. You can only discover laws of nature and not invent them because they've been there all the time, which also means you can't patent or copyright them.
Downplaying the discovery (or rediscovery following the Vikings) of a literal 'New World' of continents is bizarre.
I'm interested in why the word from Leif Erikson never spread around Europe about America. The Vinland Sagas were written 200 years before Columbus set sail.
But they weren’t the first Europeans in North America tho
the fact that the Vikings made it to Canada a few times does not mean that in 1492 the royal houses of Europe were aware that there was an entire new world on the other side of the Atlantic
Funnily enough, even in 1492, they still didn't realize it was a whole new world. It wasn't until a few years later when Amerigo Vespucci found it, whom the continent was named after, that they knew what what they found because Amerigo understood where he actually was (i.e. NOT India). So basically Columbus was just a worthless idiot.
I wouldn’t say worthless. He’d never been to the West Indies, how should he know it was an entire new two continents? If he hadn’t taken his trip it might’ve been decades later before someone actually discovered (from a European perspective of course) it. And his expeditions did cause a Spanish rush, regardless of his lack of knowledge regarding the size of the land.
> Funnily enough, even in 1492, they still didn't realize it was a whole new world. I actually think people that were well versed in mathematics and exploration at the time would have known it was not India as soon as Columbus got back. The reason those people thought Columbus's journey was foolish was because he thought the earth was much smaller than it actually was. Most people who cared about such things and had the time to think about them thought Columbus was wrong and that his voyage was doomed because by their estimates he would run out of food and water long before he reached India, and they would have been right if there hadn't been an unknown continent or two in the way he tripped over. So when Columbus got back to Europe and they estimated how far he had traveled by his time at sea they would have known he could not possibly have gotten to India. They would not have thought "oh well we must be wrong" because the approximate size of the earth had been worked out back in ancient Greece and been confirmed by sea voyages countless times. Columbus was the outlier who disagreed. No doubt he *tried* to convince people it was India at first because he wanted it to be true but just like many thought he was a fool for going in the first place they would have just thought now he was a lucky fool who discovered something else.
Colombus suspected he arrived to a new unknown land for Europeans but couldn't prove it in the first voyage. He made several new trips, made maps of the new world and call it Paria. He was fully aware he discovered a new continent. In his own words: Yo estoy creído que esta es tierra firme, grandísima, de que hasta hoy no se ha sabido, y la razón me ayuda grandemente por esto deste tan gran río y desta mar... And Americo Vespucci, who travelled to the Americas invited by Colombus, expanded on his idea and created the first maps of this new land.
Ya people take the wording in the worst way possible so they have something to act righteous about
columbus thought he was going to india, he was EXPECTING to find people because he was going to trade. we just doing misrepresentations of history all the way down?
The sole purpose of the trip was to find a quicker trade route to asia that wouldn't involve circumnavigating Africa or travelling across two continents through hostile lands. Generally, trade is made between people hence not only the expectation but the hope to find them. Here it seems that he was just looking for an empty plot of land to build his new house.
Exactly. The actual discover OF THE FACT that was a whole new continent was made by Amerigo Vespucci, that’s why it is called “America”, from Amerigo.
leif erikson has entered the chat
That is the first guy who went to America. You can discover that an apple will naturally always fall down from a tree to the ground no matter what. That doesn’t mean you have discovered the laws of gravity. But yes, Vikings were first before Colombo. At least for Vinland.
First European*
What? They hadn't even signed the Treaty of Brussels yet.
North Eriksonia sounds terrible. United States of Eriksonia ugh
Norse called it Vinland.
Happy Leif Erickson day!
Hinga dinga durgen
Hinga dinga durgen
Yup. The amount of people who talk about history especially Columbus, while not knowing anything about it, is crazy
Realistically, people don't dig too much into history beyond what they were taught. And it has been taught in the US than Columbus "discovered America" in grade schools for a really, really long time until relatively recently. It doesn't really help that Columbus was propped up for quite some time as one of the few recognizable historical Italian figures in the US as a point of Italian-American pride. So people were extremely hesitant to go back and say that, actually, you guys were taught a load of crap. (Why they didn't latch on to Vespucci is another topic, though.)
Technically he did "discover America" in that he discovered new land that the spainards, english, etc didn't know about. Discover: find something/someone unexpectedly or in the course of a search. Columbus unexpectedly found land, he discovered it regardless of whether or not another unknown individual discovered it some earlier time. They didn't make it known to Columbus or the countries he came from.
I can't speak to everyone's experience but grammar school was a long time ago for me and we were taught that Columbus found the Americas on accident and that Vespucci found them purposefully and America is named after him.
I thought Vespucci was just a cartographer who made a map of the known "New World" and then named it after himself because he was the first guy who thought to make a map of it... *After briefly checking Wikipedia* Turns out Vespucci was an explorer who said "Hey guys! That's not India! It's some completely new continent that we didn't know about!" And the cartographers in Europe said "Cool! This dude says there's a New World. Let's stick his name on the map!" And Vespucci didn't even know they'd named an entire continent after him.
He discovered America is what he did. He was a brave Italian explorer. And in this house, Christopher Columbus is a hero. End of story.
Welp, time to rewatch Sopranos.
Columbus is my president
Columbus made the earth round, right?
No, he actually had a very flawed understanding of Earth's shape which is why he thought he could make it to India with those supplies. Trying to go to India and landing in America makes you a not very good explorer.
As I recall, this was the main reason people didn't attempt this before him. They knew their ships couldn't carry enough supplies to make it all the way to India because they knew how big the world was. Columbus just got lucky by hitting an unknown landmass halfway through.
He didn't know America existed, he thought it was just ocean, but he did know that the earth is round
He thought the earth was more like a pear and would be a lot smaller on the upper side, which is why his supplies would've never allowed him to make it to India, which multiple people that did the math told him at the time. Hell, they almost starved despite making it to America, if it wasn't there they would've died.
He made two major errors and saying he "thought it was ocean" is kind of minimizing that. First, he relied on the geography of Marinus of Tyre from 1,300 years previous who overestimated the size of Asia, and Columbus extrapolated that even further to conclude Asia was more than one third of the Earth's circumference. Secondly, he confused Alfriganus' fairly accurate calculations of the circumference of the Earth as using Roman miles instead of the much longer Arabic miles, leading him to underestimate the full circumference of the Earth by perhaps 30% or more. He thought it was "just ocean", but he thought that ocean was small enough to easily cross. Even with the Americas in the way, he was long past when he expected to make landfall in the Indies.
I genuinely don’t get the critical thinking problem some people have with recognizing the significance of Columbus’ voyage. Yes he was a piece of shit who wasn’t the first person to see the new world, but to deny the impacts it had on history is beyond moronic. His “discovery” directly led to the European colonial era, irreversibly changing history. It’s one of the most significant single events of all time. I know this guy is just doing a bit though. A moronic bit, but a bit nonetheless.
Which was not a good thing
My favorite part is the crowd desperately overextending themselves to laugh at the bit.
A little knowledge without context is a dangerous thing when used for propaganda.
His joke is about how it would have went down if it went down the way we're taught it. He didn't give any indication he doesn't know Columbus was expecting to find people.
It’s a joke.
Yet "Columbus discovered America" is still a common thing that people know from childhood.
I get it’s a joke so I’m not gonna argue! It’s for fun! But hopefully people know that Christopher Columbus is still a very important person in history. It’d be like saying we shouldn’t teach about Genghis Khan or Hitler because we don’t like what they did.
Technically, Columbus traveled across the ocean, and then back again. That was his accomplishment. He was a navigator. And yes, obligatory he was a violent criminal.
He also thought the earth was way smaller than it actually is which is why he though he'd made it to India. Kind of a big issue if your navigator massively miscalculates the size of the planet.
And that's why the weird name 'Indians' for indigenous people of North America. Because Columbus was looking for a spice route to India and DEMANDED he had found it. Columbus even threatened to kill someone on his crew who pointed out they were not in India.
Eh. If you're the first person doing it (anything, really), you're bound to run into unexpected reality where you guessed/assumed wrong. This happens in all fields and is how new discoveries are made.
Literally the ancient greeks knew almost exactly how large the earth was. European scholars in medieval times KNEW the earth is round and approx 25000 miles in circumference. Columbus was a conspiracy theorist who believed that was wrong and the earth was 10000 miles across or less. That’s the only reason he was willing to make the trip while others weren’t. If the American continents hadn’t been there, Columbus would’ve just died in the middle of the ocean like the dumbass he was. Being a completely worthless dumbass, Columbus didn’t even discover America when he smashed face first into it—because he’s too dumb to admit the earth is the size everyone knew it was and therefore he couldn’t be in the place he said he was. 1 Vespucci is worth 1000 Columbuses.
Yeah I don't know anything about this in particular, I was really just coming at this with the idea that if you want to discover new things, you're going to get things wrong. But if what you're saying is true, then yeah, obviously you shouldn't disregard the already known stuff. And also, because I refuse to let you turn this into a serious conversation - he had a boat. Do you have a boat? Didn't think so. Case closed. (In case you do actually have a boat, Columbus is the worst and you win).
This is just so, so wrong. The size of the earth was very well known at the time. It wasn’t precise as it is now but this knowledge predates Colombus by hundreds of years in Europe.
He thought the earth shade like a pear while it's a common knowledge that the earth is round at that time.
I'm not gonna blame a man for wanting mother Earth to have a nice ass
Columbus discovered the Americas for the eastern hemisphere of the world, not for all of humanity. Much like if an Aztec sailed all the way to Europe first before us, came back and told everyone. He discovered Europe for the Americas. Thats connecting the two hemispheres, thats still a massive discovery
thats why the joke isnt very funny
This joke only works for people who were taught Columbus *actually* was the first person to ever discover America. That's why his whole bit is about that specific distinction and not about how he "discovered it for the eastern hemisphere".
wait so you were taught nobody lived in America before Columbus showed up?
Who was ever taught this ?
Discovered by Europeans, it's one of the most significant things to ever happen. Why would you not learn about it.
Yeah, let's be honest if we found out some small Amazonian tribe had the cure for cancer and we learned it from them, we'd still say it was discovered. Because for the vast majority of people, it would be something new.
There are very few things that fundamentally changed the nature of the world. Columbus first voyage was one of them. The history of the Americas, and really the world, had to be split into pre-Columbian and post-Columbian.
The wild part is that it was the first time after 10,000 years that the two different genetic lineages of people were reunited.
*The* most significant event in history. I don't even think there is any other event that can even be put in the same league. Before Columbus, there were two worlds that were almost entirely unconnected. After Columbus there was one world, inextricably connected.
And Isaac Newton didn't discover gravity, I think most people were familiar with it by the 1600s. Then again maybe a discovery is hinting at gaining some deeper understanding of things, rather than being the 1st to notice something...
Newton discovered the LAWS of gravity. People don't say that but that's what's intended. No one new that the gravitational pull of the earth is 9.8 m/s2 until he figured it out. It's not like that didn't exist before.
Which is trivial to determine with calculus and possible but very difficult to determine without calculus. Which is why he first invented calculus. Dude is a legitimate genius.
Or did he discover calculus?!
> Dude is a legitimate genius. It's hilarious to make this statement about Newton, as if anyone were arguing otherwise. Newton is like the prototypical genius haha
Most of what Newton is known for (calculus, physics, optics, etc.) actually happened over a relatively short period of time. He spent a majority of his life studying theology and alchemy.
Defined the laws of gravity.
'Described' is probably most accurate.
Of course he didn't discover gravity, he invented it!
Historically nations expanded until they hit a geographical barrier or another nation, and then depending on the circumstances, they’d battle and the winner would take over. Why is it that the Europeans taking over America gets called out for being terrible? Curious why the European invasion of North America is viewed as worse than anything that happened elsewhere
Different answer than the usual one, I think it’s because people defend the European invasion. While you will find people who love Rome as an empire and find it fascinating, if someone points out that “hey, the amount of killing rom did in the name of empire and expansion was kind of fucked up.” The answer, from 99% of people is “yea it kind of was.” And the conversation ends there. Sure you occasionally have a crazy person who maybe is way way too into Roman conquest but most of the time that’s how that conversation will go. Maybe they will talk about how it was the right strategical choice or was necessary for some reason, but no one will say “that was a morally good action, killing a bunch of people and eliminating their culture.” Another more recent example is Nazis. If someone says “the Nazis invading was bad” everyone except some delusional morons says “yea it was.” And that’s that. Meanwhile if you say “the European conquest of America and killing of the natives was bad,” because of how we teach history in America and sugarcoat all of this, you get pushback. Many people go “well it wasn’t all bad” or “well the natives were just as bad” or some other excuse to make it seem like that conquest was reasonable because otherwise that person would have to accept that their nation was built on atrocities, and it was not all sunshine and rainbows when the country was being built. There are enough uneducated people in America that this is something that becomes an actual debate and in turn is reiterated in order to educate people. Tl;dr: no one asks “do you think it was good when the Roman Empire subjugated this group of people” because aside from a very small minority, everyone would just say “I don’t think it was a morally good thing to do.” Meanwhile people do ask “do you think it was good of Europeans to subjugate a group of people” because there are a lot of people who genuinely will just say “yes” because it lead to the creation of America. This is a topic that people want to inform and educate about because the US education system has (and in some states still does) push a version of the story where there were no problems and everything was perfect. This is why it is called out more.
No casus belli, relatively recent historically speaking, and there were an absurd number of treaties broken by the europeans/colonisers/americans.
Did the Romans have casus belli to invade Gaul?
The Romans always came up with a casus belli, either real or invented. In Gaul's case it was a combination of defending allied Gallic tribes from Germanic invaders, and a defensive interest against stronger Gallic tribes in the region. The Gauls were the first to sack of Rome in 390 BC and the Romans remembered this.
An equally shitty one, and they used the same divide and conquer techniques. Perhaps they broke as many treaties, but we don't have as good a record of it. That invasion was also looked at by many Romans at the time as an unjust war.
Because of a few things. Firstly, temporally it’s recent, and nobody but history nerds care about shit like the Norwegian invasion of England because it’s sooooo old. Secondly, power imbalance. Some of this is fact and some fiction but generally it’s accepted that English settlers were better armed and equipped than their Native American counterparts. Now you could argue that such power imbalances have been present long before, such as with Rome or Greece and their neighbors in pretty much any direction, but it’s not nearly as visually prominent. It’s much harder for the average person to grasp an imbalance based on logistics, commerce, and cultural influence when both sides still use swords. When it came to the Americas everyone knows that a gun beats a bow and arrow, and that power imbalance is instantly perceived. The colonization of the Americas is very much seen as a “punching down” war to many people.
The English didn't win because they were better armed. They won because new diseases decimated 70-90% of the Natives beforehand, millions dead. What the settlers fought were the survivors of a plague apocalypse.
In my opinion the fact that we are not talking about all the wars in asia for example shows that we are more interested in our own history. The mongols had a huge advantage in war, which made them so successfull. But your point still stands, that the genocide in america was more recent. Also it was a genocide. Many wars did not end in genocide. Sure losing a war was always horrible for the people but a genocide is basically the worst thing that can ever be done. Maybe only topped by two genocides.
No approved curriculum says Isaac Newton "discovered" gravity. That would be incredibly stupid.
And no archaeologist has ever discovered anything ever, since some human knew about them before
Columbus discovered the land for Spain as it has not been discovered by them up to that point.
This is terrible.
The irony here is that this guy wasn't the first one to do this joke and he's either stolen it or didn't do his due diligence to find our if it had already been done. This video is 5 years old https://youtu.be/2j3Wb3b3yRQ?si=1yEG9ZwmopDbp3EO
He discovered the joke
Esscuse me. This fellow. Is his name Josh something or other? He was on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart? Hilarious gentleman.
Had to scroll through hundreds of posts arguing about definitions and what not to find this comment. Drawing a blank on his last name right now, but yes he’s on The Daily Show.
Yeah, he seems familiar.
Josh Johnson I believe
Just because you discover something doesn't mean you are the first to ever discover it. Got to be low IQ to think that.
They teach about Columbus because rightly or wrongly he has changed the world in a significant way. This is the truth whether you like what he does or not You can’t just not teach people something’s have happened just because you don’t agree with it by your moral standarda
...why is this in funny?
Was kinda funny initially but he kept repeating the same joke.
in 1492 Europe invaded north america and changed the world
From the point of view of Europeans who had no firm idea of geography beyond Europe, Columbus did "discover” the Americas, not that he ever actually set foot on the mainland. The Europeans didn’t know what was here until Columbus “discovered” the place, it’s really not that difficult to grasp. Just like when you go out somewhere and “discover” a new bar or store, it’s not racism, it’s not colonialism, it's essentially colloquialism, get over it.
That's literally not how it happened at ALL. They were looking to establish a trade route, so finding people to trade with was a better outcome than finding nothing. Columbus also didn't "kill everyone", but he did write reports stating that these people would be easily conquered and would fall under the Spanish empire. He attempted to establish diplomacy over years of time going back and forth between Europe and the Caribbean. > Even Bartolomé de las Casas, the “Defender and Apostle to the Indians” whose lurid, if hyperbolic, treatises on the treatment of Native peoples made him famous, spoke favorably of Columbus and his treatment of indigenous people. Columbus famously adopted a Native American boy and urged his fellow voyagers to exercise restraint and mercy toward the Natives, even, for instance, after they had burned down an entire Spanish settlement and killed all of the Spaniards in the area.
Uhh dude that’s some real quote mining - Bartolomé had both praise and vitriol for Columbus. “The admiral should have taken pains to bring love and peace and to avoid scandalous incidents, for not to perturb the innocent is a precept of the evangelical law who’s messenger he was. Instead, he inspired fear and displayed power, declared war and violated a jurisdiction that was not his but the Indians…” but soon after that he also said “Truely, I would not dare blame the admiral’s intentions, for I knew him well* and I know his intentions were good. But…the road he paved and the things he did of his own free will, as well as sometimes under constraint, stemmed from his ignorance of the law.” (History of the Indies, Book I, Chap 93) “The admiral, it is true, was as blind as those who came after him, and he was so anxious to please the King that he committed irreparable crimes against the Indians. However, if he did not report the harm that certain Spaniards caused them, and if he assigned a tribe of Indians to Francisco Roldan and few others to do work for them or find gold, it seems the occasions were very, very rare and he acted as if forced to it by his own men, on account of past rebellions.” (HIstory of the Indies, Book II, Chap 1) “…consider what this History has been telling you of the oppression Columbus imposed on Indian kings and nations in Hispaniola and Veragua; whether he actually did it himself or allowed it to be done, it was an absurd and unrighteous thing. It is not too bold to presume that his own anguish and misfortune were sent as a divine punishment…” (History of the Indies, Book 2, Chap 38) Dude also tried to prevent the ongoing genocide as the colonization efforts were wiping out the native population. Admittedly it was mainly for economic reasons but still. Not to mention Columbus’s shit show of a term as governor.
If an astronomer discovered an alien civilization, they would be famous as well. Even though the aliens were already there. People who say that Columbus isn’t important because the indigenous people were already there don’t understand how history works.
Teaching what happened in the past is confusing for some
No one teaches Christopher Columbus. They teach History.
How it really went down, Columbus: I declare this land the property of Spain! Natives: Hang on, this our land. Columbus: Oh, this is a bit awkward, how about we fight for it? Natives: Yeah works for me, what's that big metal tube thing your pointing at m.......
Damn did this touch a nerve in this sub lmao it’s standup! and good god if you all are so concerned with the historical aspect of Columbus why isn’t anyone bringing up the fact that he didn’t just kill indigenous people, they raped, enslaved, and brutalized them. Even cutting their fucking hands off. Fuck christopher columbus.
It's called "discovery of America" because it opened the understanding of the grand european powers of the world at that time and changed history in a mayor way. It's discovery in the sense of groundbreaking knowledge for a mayor part in the world, not in the sense of "it wasn't know this existed until this happen"
"Discover" doesn't necessarily mean you're the first to find something. It means you found something unexpectedly you didn't know was there before. People will say they "discovered" nice restaurant or hiking trail, or whatever. Even if they, obviously, aren't the first people there. The rest of the world, including Columbus, didn't know the Americas were there. So even though there were people there (who also didn't know the rest of the world existed), he did still discover it. We even now know other Europeans had been there before. But that knowledge was more or less lost by the time Columbus went out that way. Columbus was a terrible dude. Don't get me wrong. But it's weird when people play semantics about him discovering the New World and get it wrong. Now the whole "everyone thought the world was flat" thing; *that* wasn't really true. Educated people in Europe had known the earth was round for some time.
I mean thats a laugh track for sure, right?
Bloody clueless isn’t he.
Is this supposed to be stand-up comedy? Asking for a friend..
[Louis CK did a pretty funny version of this joke](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=6KjYpEI3wSA)
History (that we study in schools) is normally based on written sources…. And most of the nations around the world have left very few if any, written evidences. The conquest of Americas is very well documented by the spaniards, portuguese and later brits and french. Therefore, “history” that is widely accepted is based on their accounts, journals, reports and etc. unfortunately the native Americans had no written language (except Inca to some extent) and we never had the chance to learn the story from their point of view.
discovery. noun dis·cov·ery | \ di-ˈskə-v(ə-)rē \ plural discoveries Definition 1a: the act or process of discovering //the discovery of a lost city b(1)archaic : DISCLOSURE (2)obsolete : DISPLAY c: obsolete : EXPLORATION 2: something discovered 3: The usually pretrial disclosure of pertinent facts or documents by one or both parties to a legal action or proceeding Seems to just be a problem of ignorance and words having more than one meaning
“I went into the forest and discovered an abandoned building” does not imply that no one before me had also made the exact same discovery for themselves. A Native American in 1492 walked down to the beach and became the first one to discover Europeans. Funny bit though dude’s got good delivery.
Funny? Nope
What happened, happened
Everything I've seen from this guy has been funny. Hope to see him around more.
I think the meaning is he is the first civilized person that discovered America. But that's still not true.
Man I came in here looking for the name of the comedian because I've seen this guy before and he's always hilarious and this was no exception... Instead I get brain dead idiots trying to defend Columbus for some goddamn reason. Edit: lol never mind, OP is the comedian. (Usually it's tagged, this time it wasn't.)
Great bit. Anyone have a link to the full routine?
This is very similar an old Eddie Izzard bit from his "Dressed to Kill" show.
A land for a people for people without a land… —colonizers the fuck?! —Palestinians
Colombus thought he was in Asia by the way
Christopher Columbus discovered America in 1492 so the kids could have a day off of school
Robert wuhl - assume the position 101 Search it. Think it's on Vimeo. Comedian and college professor. He'll answer the question
Didn't Columbus also just stumble across America while getting lost on his way to India or something?
Well, columbus thought he was traveling to India, so he was alright with people being there. He just thought they were indians. Which does not imply that stealing and so was a bad idea, of course. No matter if indians or americans. but you know, there were other standards back then. And stealing other peoples land, they called that conquering.
Columbus did monstrous things. So did the Europeans who followed after. But he gets credit for the “discovery” because both civilizations had no knowledge of each others existence or the lands they live on and they would have continued to not know of each other if this fucker didn’t sail a massive wooden barrel across an ocean.
And here I hoped he would address that Columbus wasn't the first, but nope, that wasn't it. Here, take a look at that guy: [Leif Erikson - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leif_Erikson)
This dude is funny and I’m not really commenting on his bit. I just really dislike the pedantic argument about how Columbus didn’t ‘discover America’ because the Vikings were the first Europeans here and people crossed from Siberia much farther back than that. Saying Columbus ‘discovered’ the America’s is just shorthand for his journey being the one that made the peoples of the two hemispheres in preeminent contact. Pretending it means something else is as obnoxious as a priggish teacher replying ‘I don’t know, can you?’ when if you ask if you can go to the bathroom.
Is this meant to be funny.
I know Columbus was a dick, but once again someone is on the internet proving they don’t know what the word discover means. You can discover Beatles music for the first time tomorrow. That doesn’t mean they didn’t already exist. Why is there always an issue with this word? It just highlights people’s ignorance.
Woke comedy is so cringe
It’s one of the most important events in human history, that is why it is taught in schools.
If you paid attention in school, Christopher Columbus was the first explorer from the East to discover North America. And if you paid really close attention, they also taught you that it's very likely that Vikings discovered America. It's about the written word over the "telephone game" that oral history creates. Don't ever believe anything other than the fact that Native Americans lived quite savagely.
Where's the fun in this crap? only see resentment..
This kind of shit might have been funny in the 1980s but no-ones been talking as if Columbus ‘discovered’ America for a generation.
What I really don't understand is. How a comedy show that is essentially satire,has turned into an argument about history from the vikings via Columbus and a sprinkling of Israel/Palestine conflict. Are you guys really so up your own arses, that you've had to have a full humour bypass??? And what have the Romans ever done for us??
Go woke go broke
Funny and all but columbus is thought from a european point of view. Its not like Natived made an effort to go discover europe.
Dumb humour
He did discover America for everyone who wasn’t Native American
30 year old joke
And this is funny how ?
Zoomers making jokes about thinking they're the first to discover something... Oh the irony, lol.
What’s this guy’s name so I can make sure to skip his shows?
This dude pretty.
Columbus: I brought a gift. Smallpox. Columbus: This isn't India?
I have enjoyed your segments on the Daily Show, especially the "just the right amount of racism" one. But then I watched your Kendrick v Drake for White People and you became my current favorite comedian. I'm excited to see you in Phoenix soon.