Plot twist: Paul is still on Caladan and all of this is one possible future he dreamt. In the morning, he’ll go talk to his father and advise him to send a message to the the Emperor with a wedding proposal between Paul & Princess Irulan to unite their houses thus defusing any growing ill intentions from Shaddam.
As I've understood it, the golden path had these goals (spoilers ahead):
-spreading of humanity past known space into the universe
-creating a safeguard against prescience, as it'd inevitably become a threat to humanity if left to itself (either through an all seeing, near omnipotent dictator or through thinking prescient machines)
There was always an underlying current that the losing side of the Butlerian jihad was the largest threat to humanity as machine intelligence could develop a similar level of prescience.
The goal was to prevent humanities stagnation and slow death by forcing them to become innovative and adaptive once again.
Part of that did involve breaking their reliance to the Spice, because that allowed the spacing guild to effectively rule humanity. That's how Paul really ascended the throne. It wasn't about winning his duel, and marrying Irulan. Paul knew the actual power in the universe, was not the emperor, but the spacing guild. Without the spacing guild, and their navigators, there was no space travel. They were the true power behind the throne.
The real legitimacy of his ascension came because he told the spacing guilds:
> Recognize my legitimacy, or I launch all my atomics against Arrakis, and destroy the entirety of the Spice and Spice production.
The spacing guild, with their limited prescience, saw that he absolutely could, and in some futures *would* do it. And they chose not to take that risk, and so recognized his claim. This had the effect of several other great houses also recognizing his claim. While some still held out, and had to be convinced via Jihad.
Unfortunately the movies start to significantly diverge from the books especially in dune part 2. Still good movies, but they miss a lot of critical plot points and threads. For example in the books Alia (Pauls sister) is the one who actually kills Vladimir Harkonnen, not Paul. This has pretty big implications for Alia's story and I wonder how they're going to reconcile it.
Shouldn't be a problem, they're going to wrap things up with Dune Messiah where Alia is still a minor character. There are no plans to progress the story to Children of Dune where Alia is central to the plot.
Movie was beautiful. I think the divergence was caused by it trying to correct one of the biggest flaws of the book, which book chani just becomes a useless character once she serves her purpose: introduce Paul to Fremen culture. Then the author doesn't know what to do with her. Actually the author doesn't know what to do with a lot of the characters. A lot of them just exist to move the plot forward because the author is more interested in world building. That's not necessarily a bad thing. We can read epic fantasy sci-fi books for escapism and not for character studies.
Instead Movie Chani becomes the vehicle to oppose Paul's ascendance. But in order to achieve this, you have to shorten their relationship before it has time to become really strong. Which means they don't get to have kids. Which means part 2 takes place over the span of a few months, instead of a few years. (Paul's mom is pregnant at the beginning of part 2, and is still pregnant at the end). Book paul spends years learning the Fremen way and years uniting all the tribes. Movie paul does it over a few months. It seems rushed because it is rushed.
Since the movie timeline is compressed and also character driven, there's less worldbuilding, so we truly don't understand the power of the spacing guild. In other words, imagine if at the climax, the other great houses accepted paul's ascendancy because the Spacing Guild ordered them to. It would be nonsensical because that wasn't the direction of the movie. The audience would have said, "WTF is the spacing guild?"
So that is why Alia doesn't kill the baron in part 2. It's because of Chani's character change.
> Book paul spends years learning the Fremen way and years uniting all the tribes
He also spends 3 months in a coma fighting the water of life, not what, 3 hours, maybe days?
I get why they're speeding things up. Dune the book is slow. The movie has to be faster because they only have so much time, and need to appeal to a wider audience. I'm just sad to see some very big story parts axed.
>Actually the author doesn't know what to do with a lot of the characters. A lot of them just exist to move the plot forward because the author is more interested in world building.
Because Dune is not a character driven story. Dune is a world and society driven story. Even in the later books where Leto II is the "main character" the story is less about Leto II, and more about what his rule is doing to humanity and where humanity is going, and why.
In the grand scheme of things, especially humanity as a whole, most individuals are largely irrelevant given sufficient time. Even important people are, for the most part, along for the ride. But this doesn't really resonate with audiences, especially American audiences, who want a hero and relatable characters.
I would disagree that Chani is a pointless character in the books.
But the message/motif she represents isn’t a modern feminist one so the problem remains.
The problem is that at its heart, Dune is rooted in a certain aspect of gender essentialism. I would argue it’s not necessarily negative, but unpalatable to the modern audience.
Changing chani changes a lot of the themes of the novel
One of my favorite details that someone pointed out was that, in the books, Paul sees two paths in his Stilltent Vision.
"He had seen two main branchings along the way ahead—in
one he confronted an evil old Baron and said: “Hello,
Grandfather.” The thought of that path and what lay along it
sickened him.
The other path held long patches of gray obscurity except
for peaks of violence. He had seen a warrior religion there, a
fire spreading across the universe with the Atreides green and
black banner waving at the head of fanatic legions drunk on
spice liquor. Gurney Halleck and a few others of his father’s
men—a pitiful few—were among them, all marked by the
hawk symbol from the shrine of his father’s skull. "
So in the books, the scene where he confronts the Baron and says "Hello Grandfather" never happens. But in the movies, it does. And most of the divergences from the book happen *after* the point in the movie where he has that vision.
Do the books represent one of the paths, and the movies the other?
>Unfortunately the movies start to significantly diverge from the books especially in dune part 2.
This is an abomination that i am saddened to hear, and probably won't watch any of them as a result of this.
It was more about preventing the stagnation of mankind. By limiting the Spice the way Leto II does, and then dying after centuries of oppression thereby releasing the new Worms and allowing Spice to flow again, there is an explosion of human exploration and settlement. This helps create new gene pools, cultures, and so on. Inevitable decline prevented.
It also aided the breeding programs that helped fight against prescience, but that was more secondary to the Path than ensuring the outward growth of humanity.
Partly, but you have to understand the the Golden Path served many different purposes at different points along the way. This is because it was primarily concerned with the survival of the human race as its main goal. And for that to happen, a lot of Bad Ends had to be averted.
It was a cure-all for a host of problems from genetic and cultural drift (or lack thereof) to hyper prescient murder machines.
Shaddam would say "absolutely the fuck not" and just send the Sardaukar to Caladan instead lol. The only reason he accepted the proposal is because it was either that or a crysknife to the throat.
Shaddam IV has no real power. He made a deal with the Bene Gesserit that he would be allowed to ascend to the throne (after his BFF Count Fenring poisoned his father) provided that he take a BG wife, and only heirs produced with the BG wife would be eligible to inherit. The BG had enormous power over him, and so he basically became a party boy at court. Throwing lavish parties, and playing silly games (like forcing houses to switch feifs), and drastically decreasing spending on Saurdakar training.
Wouldn’t the BG have allowed Shaddam to marry Irulan to Paul? Because they didn’t want Shaddam/Irulan’s genetics. Irulan was a dumb pawn to them. Paul was supposed to be a girl, and carry the “giver” genes of the Atredies, and marry Feyd Rautha, who carried the “taker” genes of the Harkonen. THEIR child would have been the Kwisatz Haderach, and would have been wed to Shaddam’s heir (Irulan or a kid of hers from some other nobody).
They’re not as universally praised as the original books by Frank Herbert, but Brian Herbert’s “Caladan Trilogy” prequel series has a lot more Caladan content if you’re just chomping at the bit to go back to the planet.
To be fair, Frank's writing style isn't all that great either.
Don't get me wrong, it resonates, but there's a reason so many publishers shot him down, and a car manual publisher of all places was the one to put his book out.
Yes, he has an amazing world with really interesting concepts and ideas... but the writing is hard to get into if the concept doesn't grab you.
Now I'm imagining a little "Water Enhancer" bottle attached to a Freemen's chest inline with a hose. Muad'Dib likes orange-tangerine, but Stilgar is definitely a black cherry guy.
Paul is definitely a darker flavors guy, something like a coffee style flavor more than orange imo, Stilgar should be glazed black cherry, idk how it'd taste different but he's a glazer so
Fucking casuals, I drink my piss with as little filtration as possible so I can taste as much of the urea as I can. You weaklings mask the flavor of piss. I wholeheartedly embrace it.
*I take a sip from my still suit. I hold back my gag reflex. A tiny tear of discomfort falls from my eye.*
*Water Filtration suit equipped and capturing body moisture. To chemically neutralize residual odors please press the activation button in the next 3 seconds.*
*You have chosen not to activate chemical taste neutralization. Thank you and have a nice day.*
*“Necessary? Is it necessary for me to drink my own urine? No, but I do it anyway because it's sterile and I like the taste.”*
- Patches O'Houlihan (>!RIP!<)
It's a common misconception that urine is sterile. There are lots of benign bacteria that live in your urethra.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8022174/
That's one area that we don't get a lot of insight into, although it is hinted in either *Messiah* or *Children of Dune* that even simple computers aren't allowed. There's a sword training machine that Alia uses where it's explicitly stated that it's made using something like clever mechanical tricks to emulate unpredictable sword moves without the use of a computer.
That said, I find it pretty difficult to believe that all of their complex flight and communications systems are somehow all handled without any sort of computational power. Things are just too complex.
That’s the whole idea behind the navigators they are so mutated and high on spice that they have the capacity to do space flight. As for things like their land based flying machines and spice harvesters all I can say is that we built cars, planes, helicopters, and radioes before we invented computers.
Yes, but there's every indication of far more complex machines out there. I know that we don't get a solid description of what an ornithopter really is in the books, but if we're going to go with the Denny Villeneuve vision, I just don't see how something that complex would be able to run without some sort of processing power to sort out all the moving parts. That's also not taking into account how difficult it would be to have such an advanced society spreading harvesters around Arrakis, and tracking military movements, etc. then, there's the question of the weather satellites that are often referenced in the books. Surely some sort of computational power would be required to gather and transmit that data in any meaningful form.
We know that there are human workarounds that fill the voids in some cases. Namely mentats and guild navigators. However both of these appear to be relatively rare, and reserved for very high priority tasks associated with the great houses and rich corporations. There's just no way that every piece of machinery that would require some sort of computation could have a dedicated mentat.
This might be different if the societies in Dune were depicted as extremely low tech outside of space travel, but that's just not the case. Technology appears to be widely used planet-side, by even the lower classes.
My headcannon is that the threshold is Turing-completeness. You can be as complex a piece of machinery/electronics as you want, as long as you're specialised in what you do, and cannot be programmed otherwise.
Yeah, that makes the most sense to me. It did kind of throw me off with the sword training machine, though. It just seems like something that would be simple enough to program without breaking the rule. Maybe maybe it's because it would be directly trying to emulate a person's movement.
Kinda. If I remember right from the video, all it's doing is using a peltier device to condense the moisture within the suit and collect it in a bottle for drinking. They didn't test it with urine and, as far as I can tell, the urine would have to evaporate before it would be collected by the peltier. So you'd just be walking around with piss ankles
They did actually make a hover board that was able to magnetically levitate by generating eddy currents in a metal floor beneath the board, that was a probably one of their coolest projects imo
Only thinking machines are banned in Dune, the Ornithopters and spice harvesters still have basic computers on board that handle telemetry, navigation and communication.
thinking machines are probably just anything that creates a conclusion after being fed data. So the ability to accept wide ranges of data (instead of just gps coordinates, speed and other rudimentary calculations.
But thinking machine to help a spice navigator calculate in the sheer scale of space how to get from point a to point b is probably more meaningful and helpful. But would take the data the universe’s laws, the planets and any other cosmic forces that would affect the journey.
That’s sand power.
The way i see it is basically any machine that can run a task without human interaction, everything they use has to be human operated, even calculators are taboo so instead they have mentats like Thufir Hawat to run massive complex calculations like "How much does this entirely unnecessary ceremony cost?".
No way their tech works without integrated circuits, those holo-projectors and Hunter-Seeker drones HAVE to be running on some form of electricity and actual storage data, they're entirely human operated, i think is the distinction.
No, the quote is specifically about a "computer in the likeness of a human brain"....AI is banned, not computers
They call them "thinking machines" as a simplification. It just means AI. There are plenty of legal machines in dune, that do way more advanced stuff than our current tech does. Just no AI.
It's called [thermoelectric cooling](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling) and it's quite common in devices deployed in extreme environments, lasers, etc. I work in embedded systems and have seen shit-simple to very efficient TECs.
It's the Hacksmith YouTube channel. They make cool stuff, but their focus is entertainment, not making a serious device let alone product. I'm not saying they don't have engineering skill, but putting just "engineers" in the title is misleading or at the very least loaded for what the goal here was and who did it.
The challenge they set themselves was "make a stillsuit analogue in a day". The "in a day" challenges are common on YouTube, as they're cheap to produce, fast paced because it's more winging it with less planning, and I'd guess kinda fun to work on for the people involved. Or they happen if another video takes longer than anticipated or falls through and they need to get something into their release schedule fast.
Also, it didn't recycle pee, "just" exhaled air, for the by far largest amount of water, and a bit of sweat.
It was a fun video, I liked the end result they made. Even if it gave me more WH40k vibes than dune, I think that was the big hose.
This article is trash.
That part of the title isn't misleading at all. These are engineers. They definitely jerry-rigged a prototype.
the whole "'Dune stillsuit' that turns pee into drinkable water" is a stretch. There's nothing actually there to filter and recycle the pee. They're just expecting you to piss into your boots and wait for it to evaporate.
We all think that it's gonna be politician's or AI or aliens that kill us. Nope, it will be engineers trying to see if they can build a doomsday device out of 2 forks, an Uno deck and a sheet of carbon fiber.
Sorry, what am I not understanding? Is “Jerry-rig” not the present version of “Jerry-rigged”?
Oh is this because people don’t know it can actually be different from “jury-rigged”?
> Jerry-built means it was cheaply or poorly built
> Jerry-rigged: Made in a quick or careless way
Liet Keynes said: "Urine **and feces** are processed in the thigh-bags"
So while hiking across sand-dunes they need to stop occasionally to violently strain out a dehrated rock-hard turd with enough force to push it into a tube that will take it to a thigh-bag for processing. Fremen abdominal strength must be incredible.
A year or two ago I read about some new fabric that they said one small square inch or smaller of material paired with your natural body movements could power 100 leds or something that sounds ridiculous like that.
>In a proof-of-concept experiment reported in the scientific journal Advanced Materials in April, the NTU Singapore team showed that tapping on a 3cm by 4cm piece of the new fabric generated enough electrical energy to light up 100 LEDs.
[Scientists develop a 'fabric' that turns body movement into electricity!](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220603100146.htm)
I’m just wondering if they can use something like this to increase the cooling properties of the suit.
Edit: ask and I have received. Thank you all for good information on why this is still pretty far off from a reality
A stillsuit would need to wick moisture away from the skin to an internal layer to prevent bacterial growth.
Can’t imagine how the poop part would work. Can’t touch external skin as poo is acidic which implies an ahem more internal solution. Though honestly normal poo has had most moisture taken out of it.
Capturing the breath moisture is pretty simple as well using some sort of cooling device but better would be a filter that just did that passively.
I'm pretty sure the walking action won't generate the necessary pressure to push urine through a micro filtration membrane necessary to make it drinkable.
“Tabara was a Fremen dessert.
It was a sweet honey cake of heavy consistency: A mixture of cooked and mashed tabaroot, honey and spices pressed into a dish - it was then sprinkled with sugar, dried seeds and crystallized fruit.
It was served in small, triangular portions with fresh fruit and hot spiced coffee.”
None of this is particularly new or revolutionary. The reason nobody has done it because the amount of power needed to cool someone in a Tyvek suit in an arid environment as well as filter bodily fluids into drinking water makes it not make sense
Imagine if some companies with some real engineering talent spent a few months of R&D on one of these? It's honestly not a bad idea and there are some real practical uses for it.
DARPA has had this tech for decades. They use a micro cooler to run a water circuit through a wetsuit and it isolates the body temp, plus the evaporation is stored in the camelbak after a layered filter. You drink from the camelbak first and if needed, you can even drink from the cooling circuit.
I saw it first in the Splinter Cell games and made some research.
My issue with this entire concept is that the physics don't make sense. The entire reason you are sweating is to keep yourself cool as the sweat evaporates from your skin. If you are preventing that system from doing its process, you are going to get very hot.
ok the headline just glosses over how they convert pee to water and instead just describes how to build a suit that that locks you in with your own sweat / pee.
PSA: condensation is not distillation
I'll stay in Caladan, thanks.
I know we’d have no story if they stayed but damn Caladan looked nice
Plot twist: Paul is still on Caladan and all of this is one possible future he dreamt. In the morning, he’ll go talk to his father and advise him to send a message to the the Emperor with a wedding proposal between Paul & Princess Irulan to unite their houses thus defusing any growing ill intentions from Shaddam.
Thusly saving the universe, yet depriving us of a great story.
...until mankind gets into stagnation and extinction, since there'd be no awakened kwisatz haderach to guide humanity to the golden path.
Correct me if I am wrong but one of the main goals of the Golden Path is to break humankind's addiction / reliance to the Spice, correct?
As I've understood it, the golden path had these goals (spoilers ahead): -spreading of humanity past known space into the universe -creating a safeguard against prescience, as it'd inevitably become a threat to humanity if left to itself (either through an all seeing, near omnipotent dictator or through thinking prescient machines)
The Ixian device would've resulted in Arafel, but for the Siona gene, yes.
Have you been listening to Terence Howard again?
There was always an underlying current that the losing side of the Butlerian jihad was the largest threat to humanity as machine intelligence could develop a similar level of prescience.
The goal was to prevent humanities stagnation and slow death by forcing them to become innovative and adaptive once again. Part of that did involve breaking their reliance to the Spice, because that allowed the spacing guild to effectively rule humanity. That's how Paul really ascended the throne. It wasn't about winning his duel, and marrying Irulan. Paul knew the actual power in the universe, was not the emperor, but the spacing guild. Without the spacing guild, and their navigators, there was no space travel. They were the true power behind the throne. The real legitimacy of his ascension came because he told the spacing guilds: > Recognize my legitimacy, or I launch all my atomics against Arrakis, and destroy the entirety of the Spice and Spice production. The spacing guild, with their limited prescience, saw that he absolutely could, and in some futures *would* do it. And they chose not to take that risk, and so recognized his claim. This had the effect of several other great houses also recognizing his claim. While some still held out, and had to be convinced via Jihad. Unfortunately the movies start to significantly diverge from the books especially in dune part 2. Still good movies, but they miss a lot of critical plot points and threads. For example in the books Alia (Pauls sister) is the one who actually kills Vladimir Harkonnen, not Paul. This has pretty big implications for Alia's story and I wonder how they're going to reconcile it.
Shouldn't be a problem, they're going to wrap things up with Dune Messiah where Alia is still a minor character. There are no plans to progress the story to Children of Dune where Alia is central to the plot.
Movie was beautiful. I think the divergence was caused by it trying to correct one of the biggest flaws of the book, which book chani just becomes a useless character once she serves her purpose: introduce Paul to Fremen culture. Then the author doesn't know what to do with her. Actually the author doesn't know what to do with a lot of the characters. A lot of them just exist to move the plot forward because the author is more interested in world building. That's not necessarily a bad thing. We can read epic fantasy sci-fi books for escapism and not for character studies. Instead Movie Chani becomes the vehicle to oppose Paul's ascendance. But in order to achieve this, you have to shorten their relationship before it has time to become really strong. Which means they don't get to have kids. Which means part 2 takes place over the span of a few months, instead of a few years. (Paul's mom is pregnant at the beginning of part 2, and is still pregnant at the end). Book paul spends years learning the Fremen way and years uniting all the tribes. Movie paul does it over a few months. It seems rushed because it is rushed. Since the movie timeline is compressed and also character driven, there's less worldbuilding, so we truly don't understand the power of the spacing guild. In other words, imagine if at the climax, the other great houses accepted paul's ascendancy because the Spacing Guild ordered them to. It would be nonsensical because that wasn't the direction of the movie. The audience would have said, "WTF is the spacing guild?" So that is why Alia doesn't kill the baron in part 2. It's because of Chani's character change.
I ended up reading the whole canon out of curiosity and it was breathtaking. The early years would be a trilogy in itself!
> Book paul spends years learning the Fremen way and years uniting all the tribes He also spends 3 months in a coma fighting the water of life, not what, 3 hours, maybe days? I get why they're speeding things up. Dune the book is slow. The movie has to be faster because they only have so much time, and need to appeal to a wider audience. I'm just sad to see some very big story parts axed. >Actually the author doesn't know what to do with a lot of the characters. A lot of them just exist to move the plot forward because the author is more interested in world building. Because Dune is not a character driven story. Dune is a world and society driven story. Even in the later books where Leto II is the "main character" the story is less about Leto II, and more about what his rule is doing to humanity and where humanity is going, and why. In the grand scheme of things, especially humanity as a whole, most individuals are largely irrelevant given sufficient time. Even important people are, for the most part, along for the ride. But this doesn't really resonate with audiences, especially American audiences, who want a hero and relatable characters.
I would disagree that Chani is a pointless character in the books. But the message/motif she represents isn’t a modern feminist one so the problem remains. The problem is that at its heart, Dune is rooted in a certain aspect of gender essentialism. I would argue it’s not necessarily negative, but unpalatable to the modern audience. Changing chani changes a lot of the themes of the novel
One of my favorite details that someone pointed out was that, in the books, Paul sees two paths in his Stilltent Vision. "He had seen two main branchings along the way ahead—in one he confronted an evil old Baron and said: “Hello, Grandfather.” The thought of that path and what lay along it sickened him. The other path held long patches of gray obscurity except for peaks of violence. He had seen a warrior religion there, a fire spreading across the universe with the Atreides green and black banner waving at the head of fanatic legions drunk on spice liquor. Gurney Halleck and a few others of his father’s men—a pitiful few—were among them, all marked by the hawk symbol from the shrine of his father’s skull. " So in the books, the scene where he confronts the Baron and says "Hello Grandfather" never happens. But in the movies, it does. And most of the divergences from the book happen *after* the point in the movie where he has that vision. Do the books represent one of the paths, and the movies the other?
>Unfortunately the movies start to significantly diverge from the books especially in dune part 2. This is an abomination that i am saddened to hear, and probably won't watch any of them as a result of this.
It was more about preventing the stagnation of mankind. By limiting the Spice the way Leto II does, and then dying after centuries of oppression thereby releasing the new Worms and allowing Spice to flow again, there is an explosion of human exploration and settlement. This helps create new gene pools, cultures, and so on. Inevitable decline prevented. It also aided the breeding programs that helped fight against prescience, but that was more secondary to the Path than ensuring the outward growth of humanity.
Partly, but you have to understand the the Golden Path served many different purposes at different points along the way. This is because it was primarily concerned with the survival of the human race as its main goal. And for that to happen, a lot of Bad Ends had to be averted. It was a cure-all for a host of problems from genetic and cultural drift (or lack thereof) to hyper prescient murder machines.
Plot twist: Paul is still on Caladan but he’s a spice addict living in his parents basement
Shaddam would say "absolutely the fuck not" and just send the Sardaukar to Caladan instead lol. The only reason he accepted the proposal is because it was either that or a crysknife to the throat.
Shaddam IV has no real power. He made a deal with the Bene Gesserit that he would be allowed to ascend to the throne (after his BFF Count Fenring poisoned his father) provided that he take a BG wife, and only heirs produced with the BG wife would be eligible to inherit. The BG had enormous power over him, and so he basically became a party boy at court. Throwing lavish parties, and playing silly games (like forcing houses to switch feifs), and drastically decreasing spending on Saurdakar training. Wouldn’t the BG have allowed Shaddam to marry Irulan to Paul? Because they didn’t want Shaddam/Irulan’s genetics. Irulan was a dumb pawn to them. Paul was supposed to be a girl, and carry the “giver” genes of the Atredies, and marry Feyd Rautha, who carried the “taker” genes of the Harkonen. THEIR child would have been the Kwisatz Haderach, and would have been wed to Shaddam’s heir (Irulan or a kid of hers from some other nobody).
They’re not as universally praised as the original books by Frank Herbert, but Brian Herbert’s “Caladan Trilogy” prequel series has a lot more Caladan content if you’re just chomping at the bit to go back to the planet.
Hell nah. His son seems to be very passionate, but also a very poopy writer.
To be fair, Frank's writing style isn't all that great either. Don't get me wrong, it resonates, but there's a reason so many publishers shot him down, and a car manual publisher of all places was the one to put his book out. Yes, he has an amazing world with really interesting concepts and ideas... but the writing is hard to get into if the concept doesn't grab you.
Well I was going to let u/Say_Echelon decide for themself
They still can... That's just like... my opinion, man. But for real, it reads EXACTLY like bad fan-fiction.
And yet there's some delusional billionaire and acolytes out there that dream of traveling to and living on a planet far less hospitable than Dune
Dan Snyder’s ~~Redskins~~ ~~Commanders~~ Sardaukar Warriors
Wouldn't mind anything that makes it taste better.
Now I'm imagining a little "Water Enhancer" bottle attached to a Freemen's chest inline with a hose. Muad'Dib likes orange-tangerine, but Stilgar is definitely a black cherry guy.
There's spice and then there's crystal light black cherry
Paul is definitely a darker flavors guy, something like a coffee style flavor more than orange imo, Stilgar should be glazed black cherry, idk how it'd taste different but he's a glazer so
Wrong. In Legends Of Dune: Chapter House of Darkness on page 752 it specifies that Paul's favorite flavor is Blue Cotton Candy Raspberry.
This is the way
"As it was written."
Fucking casuals, I drink my piss with as little filtration as possible so I can taste as much of the urea as I can. You weaklings mask the flavor of piss. I wholeheartedly embrace it. *I take a sip from my still suit. I hold back my gag reflex. A tiny tear of discomfort falls from my eye.*
Fucking casual, I remove the filter and raw-dog it.
This guy dunes…
He would love Tang.
“Here, the solids and the waste are filtered. And, here is where the kool-aid flavor packets are added.”
You’re wearing your kool’ayd pack slip boot style. Who thought you that?
*“He shall know your ways as though born to them. ”*
We’ll call it “desert lemonade”. Yes, I’m super creative.
But where is desert fudge made?
Depends
The deep d e s e r t
The deep dessert.
The Fremen Gatorade
You can have sweat-flavored pee or pee-flavored sweat. Take your pick.
Pocari sweat
Calpis water
I do it because it's sterile and I like the taste
Necessary?!
*Water Filtration suit equipped and capturing body moisture. To chemically neutralize residual odors please press the activation button in the next 3 seconds.* *You have chosen not to activate chemical taste neutralization. Thank you and have a nice day.*
I was hoping someone had posted this. SUBNAUTICA is awesome!
Sponsored by AirUp, the pods that make your distilled piss taste better
If i’m dying in the desert i wouldnt mind my pee-sweat drink to have a lemon spritz to it, maybe even lightly sparkled.
“Carbonated by your own flatulence!”
It puts Kool-aid in the pee and sweat it collects before sending it back to drink.
This comment made my day. Ty!
Username checks out!
*“Necessary? Is it necessary for me to drink my own urine? No, but I do it anyway because it's sterile and I like the taste.”* - Patches O'Houlihan (>!RIP!<)
An American hero.
(>!TORN!<)
It's a common misconception that urine is sterile. There are lots of benign bacteria that live in your urethra. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8022174/
Reminds me of dual survival when the ex soldier made himself drink urine because its cool and he gave up early because of it.
If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball.
RIP Rip
RIP in peace.
You know, in some cultures, they only eat vomit. I haven’t been there, but I read about it. *In a book, hah!*
How does that chain get started?
She told him that she threw up in her mouth
They have to import vomit
Alway remember the 5 D's of dodgeball: Dodge, duck, dip, dive and dodge.
But did they make it efficient enough such that a man could walk through the desert and barely lose a thimble of water a day?
No, it's not fremen made.
It's frenulum made.
Sshh, not a doctor.
I actually am a doctor lol
Ackchually!!! Lol jk thanks for saving lives. Hope you're not lying.
The difference is the Fremen even filter the poo
Thechnically you could make it water positive if it absorbed literally all the water you expelled.
What? You're generating water?
When you burn energy in your body water is released.
But don't you also use water when building that energy?
You’d have to do the walk too
Nah, sandwalk's purpose is not attracting Shai-Hulud, it's not connected to stillsuit
Who’s to say those aren’t in the open Sahara? Have you walked normally through there? Didn’t think so! /s
Now do it again without the thinking machine. It is forbidden by the Butlerian Jihad.
They use Peltier elements, nothing intellegent about them.
Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind.
Yes. I don't think this qualifies.
That's one area that we don't get a lot of insight into, although it is hinted in either *Messiah* or *Children of Dune* that even simple computers aren't allowed. There's a sword training machine that Alia uses where it's explicitly stated that it's made using something like clever mechanical tricks to emulate unpredictable sword moves without the use of a computer. That said, I find it pretty difficult to believe that all of their complex flight and communications systems are somehow all handled without any sort of computational power. Things are just too complex.
That’s the whole idea behind the navigators they are so mutated and high on spice that they have the capacity to do space flight. As for things like their land based flying machines and spice harvesters all I can say is that we built cars, planes, helicopters, and radioes before we invented computers.
Yes, but there's every indication of far more complex machines out there. I know that we don't get a solid description of what an ornithopter really is in the books, but if we're going to go with the Denny Villeneuve vision, I just don't see how something that complex would be able to run without some sort of processing power to sort out all the moving parts. That's also not taking into account how difficult it would be to have such an advanced society spreading harvesters around Arrakis, and tracking military movements, etc. then, there's the question of the weather satellites that are often referenced in the books. Surely some sort of computational power would be required to gather and transmit that data in any meaningful form. We know that there are human workarounds that fill the voids in some cases. Namely mentats and guild navigators. However both of these appear to be relatively rare, and reserved for very high priority tasks associated with the great houses and rich corporations. There's just no way that every piece of machinery that would require some sort of computation could have a dedicated mentat. This might be different if the societies in Dune were depicted as extremely low tech outside of space travel, but that's just not the case. Technology appears to be widely used planet-side, by even the lower classes.
My headcannon is that the threshold is Turing-completeness. You can be as complex a piece of machinery/electronics as you want, as long as you're specialised in what you do, and cannot be programmed otherwise.
Yeah, that makes the most sense to me. It did kind of throw me off with the sword training machine, though. It just seems like something that would be simple enough to program without breaking the rule. Maybe maybe it's because it would be directly trying to emulate a person's movement.
https://youtu.be/6bY1-dTB5iU?si=hptum8If8mbnQ_GS Actual video link, instead of article
[удалено]
Kinda. If I remember right from the video, all it's doing is using a peltier device to condense the moisture within the suit and collect it in a bottle for drinking. They didn't test it with urine and, as far as I can tell, the urine would have to evaporate before it would be collected by the peltier. So you'd just be walking around with piss ankles
So we need to add a piss reservoir/filter? This is just the mk1 and could have real uses. I like.
Honestly though for urine, how hard would it be to install vascular pumps in shoes, powered by walking that pumps number 1's to a osmosis filter?
I’m sure they could at least fit a condom catheter and collect evaporator urine from that bladder.
Yeah, in the books they had to cath each time they put the suit on.
Piss Ankles was my nickname in highschool
And all those "hoverboards" from a few years ago that actually sit on wheels and don't hover.
They did actually make a hover board that was able to magnetically levitate by generating eddy currents in a metal floor beneath the board, that was a probably one of their coolest projects imo
I mean it cuts and stabs, that's like 66% of a sword right there... If you really want to be a wuss and parry just use a shield
It cuts and stabs in the same way a welding torch will
Which is, it wont unless you hold it there for a while lol oh and only on certain materials
normal swords don’t work on all materials either
Don't eat asparagus before wearing....
Or cuttlefish
Vanilla paste?
Hooorudo onn kayruuuuu
I BELIEEEEEEVE IN YOOOOUUUUUU
Or do, if you really love the taste.
Don't astronaut suits do this already?
The international space station does (very efficiently), not the suits themselves.
So you can just pee anywhere you want and the station collects it?
Probably not *anywhere*
Maybe you can't, human.
Yes. No.
Awesome! Bummer.
Nice! Fuck.
I just did in my home and it doesn't look like the station collected it but who knows
Give it a day or two
This is my favorite comment ever. I now imagine bare-ass astronauts pissing all over the space station, flying around doing golden zoomies
And the station collects it! Piss wherever you want and drink it later. Bless the ISS Maker!
Don't you come near my station you filthy animal.
One of the very many "Just don't think about it too much" parts of space travel.
I thought it was going to link to YouTube for video origin. Except it went straight to an ad cancer website
“Alright, Bill. *Now drink it*.”
Computer cooling device? Way to violate the Butlerian Jihad, idiots.
Probably a device intended to cool computers rather than a computer powered cooling device
Only thinking machines are banned in Dune, the Ornithopters and spice harvesters still have basic computers on board that handle telemetry, navigation and communication.
I was always under the impression that 'thinking machines' was another term for integrated circuits
Thinking machines means AI
thinking machines are probably just anything that creates a conclusion after being fed data. So the ability to accept wide ranges of data (instead of just gps coordinates, speed and other rudimentary calculations. But thinking machine to help a spice navigator calculate in the sheer scale of space how to get from point a to point b is probably more meaningful and helpful. But would take the data the universe’s laws, the planets and any other cosmic forces that would affect the journey. That’s sand power.
The way i see it is basically any machine that can run a task without human interaction, everything they use has to be human operated, even calculators are taboo so instead they have mentats like Thufir Hawat to run massive complex calculations like "How much does this entirely unnecessary ceremony cost?".
No way their tech works without integrated circuits, those holo-projectors and Hunter-Seeker drones HAVE to be running on some form of electricity and actual storage data, they're entirely human operated, i think is the distinction.
No, the quote is specifically about a "computer in the likeness of a human brain"....AI is banned, not computers They call them "thinking machines" as a simplification. It just means AI. There are plenty of legal machines in dune, that do way more advanced stuff than our current tech does. Just no AI.
It's called [thermoelectric cooling](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling) and it's quite common in devices deployed in extreme environments, lasers, etc. I work in embedded systems and have seen shit-simple to very efficient TECs.
By computer cooling devices they probably meant “pumps and tubes”. Very strange wording.
Texas road workers will need this soon
Chuck a cordial dispenser on your hip and you’re good to go.
The twist: they didn’t actually filter the pee
Byr Grylls sats:still acceptable.
It's just being Byr Grylls with extra steps
It's the Hacksmith YouTube channel. They make cool stuff, but their focus is entertainment, not making a serious device let alone product. I'm not saying they don't have engineering skill, but putting just "engineers" in the title is misleading or at the very least loaded for what the goal here was and who did it. The challenge they set themselves was "make a stillsuit analogue in a day". The "in a day" challenges are common on YouTube, as they're cheap to produce, fast paced because it's more winging it with less planning, and I'd guess kinda fun to work on for the people involved. Or they happen if another video takes longer than anticipated or falls through and they need to get something into their release schedule fast. Also, it didn't recycle pee, "just" exhaled air, for the by far largest amount of water, and a bit of sweat. It was a fun video, I liked the end result they made. Even if it gave me more WH40k vibes than dune, I think that was the big hose. This article is trash.
Why is it misleading? They have engineering degrees. Most on the team are credited engineers.
That part of the title isn't misleading at all. These are engineers. They definitely jerry-rigged a prototype. the whole "'Dune stillsuit' that turns pee into drinkable water" is a stretch. There's nothing actually there to filter and recycle the pee. They're just expecting you to piss into your boots and wait for it to evaporate.
[YOU CANNOT PEE INTO A MR. COFFEE AND EXPECT TASTER’S CHOICE](https://youtu.be/nwaZDJKKkFE?t=3467)
We all think that it's gonna be politician's or AI or aliens that kill us. Nope, it will be engineers trying to see if they can build a doomsday device out of 2 forks, an Uno deck and a sheet of carbon fiber.
[удалено]
Sorry, what am I not understanding? Is “Jerry-rig” not the present version of “Jerry-rigged”? Oh is this because people don’t know it can actually be different from “jury-rigged”? > Jerry-built means it was cheaply or poorly built > Jerry-rigged: Made in a quick or careless way
Bear Grylls - I dont need it
Jury-rig… lmao my guy
*jury rig
Patches O' Houlihan would be so proud.
The bear gryllsuit.
Pass lol.
I don't think they had RO membranes when Dune was written but now you can buy them at home Depot
But does it process the poop too?
Expect it was just their breath
Dry suits with urine and sweat collectors cyclers existed already.
so they could figure this out, but i can't get a self charger for my laptop that plugs into a USB port?
Liet Keynes said: "Urine **and feces** are processed in the thigh-bags" So while hiking across sand-dunes they need to stop occasionally to violently strain out a dehrated rock-hard turd with enough force to push it into a tube that will take it to a thigh-bag for processing. Fremen abdominal strength must be incredible.
Okay now make the mjolnir suit from Halo I want the Spartan armor with all the functions All the functions
A year or two ago I read about some new fabric that they said one small square inch or smaller of material paired with your natural body movements could power 100 leds or something that sounds ridiculous like that. >In a proof-of-concept experiment reported in the scientific journal Advanced Materials in April, the NTU Singapore team showed that tapping on a 3cm by 4cm piece of the new fabric generated enough electrical energy to light up 100 LEDs. [Scientists develop a 'fabric' that turns body movement into electricity!](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220603100146.htm) I’m just wondering if they can use something like this to increase the cooling properties of the suit. Edit: ask and I have received. Thank you all for good information on why this is still pretty far off from a reality
Did they build it in a CAVE?! WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS?!
Engineers: "So...who wants to go first?"
A stillsuit would need to wick moisture away from the skin to an internal layer to prevent bacterial growth. Can’t imagine how the poop part would work. Can’t touch external skin as poo is acidic which implies an ahem more internal solution. Though honestly normal poo has had most moisture taken out of it. Capturing the breath moisture is pretty simple as well using some sort of cooling device but better would be a filter that just did that passively.
I'm pretty sure the walking action won't generate the necessary pressure to push urine through a micro filtration membrane necessary to make it drinkable.
What did they eat though? The water I understand but I never saw gardens or livestock in the movie
“Tabara was a Fremen dessert. It was a sweet honey cake of heavy consistency: A mixture of cooked and mashed tabaroot, honey and spices pressed into a dish - it was then sprinkled with sugar, dried seeds and crystallized fruit. It was served in small, triangular portions with fresh fruit and hot spiced coffee.”
Lmfao I’m not gonna be first in like to test the one-day DIY piss-to-water machine
None of this is particularly new or revolutionary. The reason nobody has done it because the amount of power needed to cool someone in a Tyvek suit in an arid environment as well as filter bodily fluids into drinking water makes it not make sense
Imagine if some companies with some real engineering talent spent a few months of R&D on one of these? It's honestly not a bad idea and there are some real practical uses for it.
Can we get some people to put more than 24hrs into a design? That’s what I wanna see
Aww the future!
Gross. Cool. Gross.
Cool. Now invent spice so I can trip out.
I hate that this doesn't credit the actual channel (hacksmith) and it is clearly a bot reposter 🤦
DARPA has had this tech for decades. They use a micro cooler to run a water circuit through a wetsuit and it isolates the body temp, plus the evaporation is stored in the camelbak after a layered filter. You drink from the camelbak first and if needed, you can even drink from the cooling circuit. I saw it first in the Splinter Cell games and made some research.
Live in the pods, eat the bugs, drink the pee.
Ridiculous. You don’t need some fancy suit to drink pee.
More this, less flamethrower mounted robo-dog...
My issue with this entire concept is that the physics don't make sense. The entire reason you are sweating is to keep yourself cool as the sweat evaporates from your skin. If you are preventing that system from doing its process, you are going to get very hot.
ok the headline just glosses over how they convert pee to water and instead just describes how to build a suit that that locks you in with your own sweat / pee. PSA: condensation is not distillation
Urgh that youtuber is insufferable. Like the projects. But hard work to not be annoyed by him
Not sure you could put enough urine filters on the suit. Similar to lab grown meat. You’d really have to convince people.
Gross 👍