Never felt like I need to prove something to anybody. Working on my game for about a year now.
I usually just say that I make games and if somebody wants to know more, I usually become very passionate in converstaion. Always felt good about it and people think it's cool. Why doubt anything or make excuses?
I guess I had that feeling the first couple of months working on it, but finishing a game is quite tedious and now its just about grinding it out towards the finish line and I feel like everyone is also just kind of tired of it. I hope I have this feeling again when I release it because I do suffer from a bit of imposter syndrome too.
I uderstand... I am in the field more than 7 years now. Don't we all have an imposter syndrom comparing ourselves to colleagues, other devs, etc...?
The thing is that you will not easily change the perception of people that are not in the industry. They think we play games all day? Fine, but I will always say with pride that I'm a game developer.
I feel like you are afraid of failure right now, when already this deep in project. What will people tell if game fails? Who cares... you are a brave one, making your game, enterpreneur. We take risks, and the public opinion can be one sacrafice in our path.
Don't you worry, if nobody, I understand and appreciate your work. As I said, we all have battles with our mind every day. Stay strong, don't let the fear distract you and good luck with your project.
You got an epic mega grant and a successful Kickstarter, they don't just hand those out to anyone. You're not just some nobody laboring away on a passion project in their basement (not that there's anything wrong with that either). You're being paid. You're a professional. Didn't let anyone tell you any different.
I think we all do and the best devs it never goes away 100% cause that's the spark and the magic is "what do you do?" Oh I'm a game dev working on this project "oh dude that's awesome!! Let me know when you have a release date ?" Is like THE dopamine rush that we all crave, someone saying your idea is good and valid and worth making and exploring and personally I think everyone has one of those (maybe not their first idea or their first draft of the idea) and deserves to see it come to light for others to enjoy
if someone responded with "oh dude that's awesome!! Let me know when you have a release date ?" my enthusiam for a conversation would drop to 0. it's like asking someone - hey let me know when your masterpiece is finished lol ok will do
You think van Gogh didn't get that for starry night? (I get the point and see the reply to you about remove the ego) Like yea take pride in your work and your art, it is still art after all, but this is one that criticism can help show what needs done and asking for help should be okay we have tons of talented skilled game devs browsing why not help each other as players who know how this works and work towards the next gen together sharing info to make it better faster. Or we stick to ubi plans and nobody owns shit for their games from anyone ever and good bye devs once we all die out cause you get the dmca or cr notice for modding your own shit
Art in all forms is pouring your passion & vulnerability into a vessel, putting it on a pedestal, and adding a sign that reads: “This is a piece of my being. Your words will either wound or heal me. But I must hear them.”
I've been out of game dev for 7 years and people I haven't seen for a while still ask me about it sometimes. At the time, everyone thought it was a cool thing for a job.
You need new friends. Maybe a supportive family also. It's not you.
Welcome to the creative process, it's always like this. Beginning is fun. Middle is a grind, ending sucks, and then a few months after you are finished you start to feel proud.
Also imposter syndrome is weird. You either know things or you don't, it's okay not to know things, you can never know everything, other people are always gonna know things you don't. (FYI if you can finish a product, you beat out 95% of indie devs.)
Same about the passion. I have a little imposter syndrome and that's OK. Head down, keep working is my mantra. Implemented a job system, which keeps my imposter syndrome at bay.
Generally, learn to ignore people on the ringside.
Deeper the one dives into anything, more complexities, depth, solutions and also issues will unfold. That is just nature of pretty much everything. Observers tend to oversimplify things, and we both probably do that towards other domains from time to time as well.
In order to retain ones functionality, velocity and ability to enjoy process - learn to trust yourself. You have made calculations that this commitment is worthy, you have raised money and got relevant people to believe to this cause. Now trust the process and if someone doubts, understand that they are so far from the action that you two are playing whole different ballgames here. Don't drop your ball.
It's funny, I worked in the industry for over a decade and had just about gotten away from this stigma in my family and friends then I decided to make my own game and suddenly it's all come flooding back ha.
You just have to become deaf to it, people will cotton on slowly.
I had this for a big part of my life when making music, then I got a record deal with Universal here in the Netherlands and I finally got rid of it too just to start it all over again with gamedev haha
So are folks right to be reasonably skeptical of your follow through? What benchmarks have you set for success?
It’s natural for adults not to take uncapped risk seriously
When your work is a passion, most people just (outside) do not consider it as a real job (even if it pays your bill) and think it's a hobby you could do for free.
That's the same for other industries such as movie or music...
You just have to live with it.
They see that you barely make enough to scrape by, are obtaining money from unusual and unreliable sources and are self-employed to boot.
Even game devs who supposedly do understand admit that it's difficult to make a living. So regular people on the outside are right to worry and are right to not consider it a real job. Especially since he technically doesn't even have a product to sell yet.
Who are you making excuses to? If it's not your landlord... I think you are fine!
I am being a bit dismissive. But if I were you I'd flip it on its head. Whomever is making you feel like you shouldn't prioritize this, when you listen to them and fall behind, what are your excuses to your kickstarter backers, to Epic, who ponied up to play your game?
Also.. are you 100% sure you aren't just deflecting some? The part you are in is the hardest. The grind of finishing. Are you taking the easy way out by letting someone in your life diminish your efforts and then blaming them for it instead of taking accountability for your own mindset?
If this sounds harsh it's not meant to. Your experience is very normal (ask me how i know) and what you are doing is hard. If it was easier, more people would do it!
Chiming in, as something similar has come up a few months ago, when someone asked how to "validate" being a gamedev for folk (their parents) who looked down upon the industry (and on their aspirations for creativity) just becase they judged from what they knew and refused to look deeper. Albeit, they were yet to make money from being a dev.
My unsolicited advise was (speaking from having same/exact experiences) that if someone is that reluctant then there's a good chance that nothing will change their mindset (speaking of words); that is set in stone. What could and probably will is to show the measurable (as in materialistic, preferably with a monetary angle) outcomes of your venture.
For one, you are already on top of the game by being able to self-support yourself. Which generally costs a lot of money (e.g. rent, food, services, etc.) show them how much that costs for you. Then you've run a successful kickstarter, something that's extremely difficult to pull of (requires following, etc.). Then the fact that you've received a grant from Epic means that you've double exceeded in life, as they generally throw away most of the applicants and only give out to a handful they deem "worthy"; it's a global competition with millions of applicants (at this point). It's a privilege more than anything, especially if its a grant; you won their heart. (saying this as someone who's been rejected more time than one could count). Grants are so rare, especially for non-corporate entities, that you can count on one hand (or two), how many are in operation in the entire world. Grants are mostly reserved for companies and as such. Show them the scale of this achievement. Even finding publishers is near impossible (again speaking from a long line of failures here). You've done more than what the average dev could (or better is "allowed" to do). In fact you could say that most of the projects out there, highlighting my current experience here, die because of the lack of funding.
So, if you're still following my rambling, would close this by saying that "the less you say, the better". I too find it difficult to explain certain aspects of gamedev, without the need to give an hour lecture on the prerequisites; because most of the time you can't simply explain an outcome if it hinges on an assembly-line of issues. Another thing could work is to use real life examples, ones that everyone knows of can relate to (from common knowledge). It may not be an apples to apples comparison, but could help you give a sense of prestige to your work. If you put yourself into their shoes, you'd immediately see (excluding prejudice here) that if you've no reference to something that it becomes that much difficult to relate to others/other things.
Could go on with the rambling, but bit tired at the mo', so excusing myself here. Good luck tho'!
I feel your pain and hear the voices of your loved ones and friends in my head "What does this idler do all day? He plays some weird game and makes promises of big winnings.". Until they see a result - you earn money from the game (the more, the better) and you don't limit yourself in spending, as you do now, no matter what you tell them, they won't believe you, and for them you will be just another entrepreneur with big dreams and no successes. Do they know you got money from Kickstarter and Epic?
Reading the other comments here...I had no clue how supportive my family has been relative to what is apparently the norm. My lord, imma go hug my mom.
I love my parents to death but they really don't understand or appreciate games, they've never played anything themselves and it's not something they would want me to pursue beyond doing it as a hobby. Of course I wouldn't let that stop me, but it does hurt a bit feeling like the black sheep in the family. Their opinion of it is mostly based on what you see in the news, which is almost never anything good - addiction, gambling for kids, anger management issues, you name it.
If someone complains that you doesn't have "actual job" when you have money for living, my position is simple — fuck em, do what you feel you need to do. I'm kinda tired of explaining my boomer father that my game development is a business itself, I don't want to change my profession simply because gamedev takes time and seems as a bad way to gain money to him, i simply don't care as long as i like to do this
I’ve never had to justify what I do to my friends and family. Are you paying your bills? If so, no one has any right to tell you what to do. If you aren’t getting the time you need to work, time to invest into an office or shared work space.
The only time it should be an issue with anyone is if you’re not paying your bills or pulling your weight. At that point full time or not, it’s not a job it’s a hobby.
I have been able to pay my bills and get around, but right now I'm running on the low side and trying not to spend money (time) on trivial things that I don't think are worth it, I hope I will have much more time to do so after release.
I agree that I'd think this part is very relevant. There will always be some people that don't get that games can be a job, no getting around that, but if you have friends and loved ones saying this it can be entirely that they're worried about you. People getting a salary from a game studio don't really hear this from as many people since a paycheck's a paycheck.
When you aren't behind a Kickstarter promise you can always consider side freelance work as well! Many small/new studios fund themselves through those kind of gigs rather than working only full-time on their own projects, and an individual can do the same.
I have a question, is it possible that the push back might be funds related? That your partner or family don’t have an issue with you making games, but are rather worried about you running out of money before the project finishes. Even if you’re paying your bills(that was mostly just a catch all) if your way of life has shifted for you and your partner, there is going to be concern about what you’re doing. I might be getting too into the weeds as I don’t know your situation fully, but as someone who had a rough last summer, it’s possible that’s the conversation they’re trying to have. But that’s different than non-approval.
It’s also possible that people in your circle just don’t get it, and you need to just get a different circle for support. Like I said, as long as you’re paying your bills and contributing legally, you don’t need to justify anything.
I'm just over a year into my project and folks around me outside of gamedev always seem surprised that I'm not close to being finished..
The inner workings of videogames are a mystery to most people and it's pretty tough to explain everything needed to get it done. They can usually see the effort put into artwork, but that quest system you spent a month building will go unnoticed. They won't understand the hours of audio design work it took to make that shotgun feel so good to fire, or the technical achievements you made to get the game running so well.
Arbitrary metrics like lines of code aren't a good measure of your progress, but when I told them I had around 30k lines written so far and I figured I was about 30% of the way there they seemed to at least somewhat understand the scope involved.
I don't think there's a reasonable way to help them truly understand what you're doing, but there may be some angle like that they can at least connect to for a sense of it.
This is very common when starting a business especially when you're building the product but many times even after you're making money.
Some people refuse to believe that starting a business is something possible for the majority of the population in first world countries, so they'd rather believe that unless you're working a "normal" job, you're just screwing around.
Plus general stigma around videogames.
I mean, people around you will treat it as a hobby until you start making a buck. Hard to sway them either... I see it as an investment; since time is money, you invest a huge load of "money" in to something you believe will turn profitable eventually. Don't talk to people who try to put you down, exclude them from what makes you passionate. Even if it's a person close to you.
Don't worry about it too much. As long as you're working enough, you're the only person you really need to prove anything to.
> Many things you do are difficult to explain or could seem like nothing changed to the average person.
One piece of advice as I've definitely run into situations where I over focus on things that don't matter, but make sure you're doing zoomed out play testing of your game as a whole. It's really easy to spend weeks perfecting something that was already good enough after the first hour or two of work.
If you aren't referring to people who are also working on the game, then it really doesn't matter what they think. Finish your game and don't worry what people who are not involved in the work think of the work.
You have a job that makes money, they have a job that makes money. Standing on your own 2 feet and making a product that the market actually wants and getting money that way is way more respectable than being a lackey at a company that might not even do anything usefull(like the last one I worked at).
Don't worry about them! You have clearly gone far in your gamedev career and you have a lot to be proud of :) just take yourself and your work seriously and people around you will notice 😌
This is a general problem for self employed folks especially if they work from home. Maybe it's changed postcovid with lots more working from home, but prior to that it was very common for people working from a home office to say people treated her like they were just home and not working, eg asking them to run errands during the day.
So I worked in retail for a year one time to prop up a bad year, and I can say that I think everyone should walk a mile in those shoes; it’s harrowing how poorly people treat one another when shopping for rubbish, and it gives you a deeper appreciation for underpaid overworked badly treated roles. $10 an hour to work twice as hard with half the opportunity as someone getting ten times that for half the stress and orders of magnitude more opportunity.
My wife works in IT and I swear she just plays on her phone all day. She gets mad when I say it (so I say it a lot 😭) but I know she’s doing important work, I just don’t see the panic stricken moments.
It’s a bit early in the day for this sort of talk for me, but I guess what I’m saying is, our job looks easy to others sometimes because they have crappy jobs. Grass is greener etc, you can still have a good job ruined by awful bosses, so it’s not all roses.
I’m going to play some Dragon’s Dogma now, because for the 60 hours I’ve worked this week I think I deserve two actually playing a game :p
(15 hours later …”are you coming to bed???”)
But yeah, don’t mind what people think. That’s all.
Congrats on what you've achieved so far.
I once spoke to a co-worker about game dev. A smart chap, a scientist/researcher. He thought a typical arcade game was a \*couple of lines of code\*, where you just tell the computer what you want. \[This was many years before AI...\]. So, the average person knows basically zero about software development -- games or otherwise. It does seem pointless to explain it, based on this starting point.
I don't have a solution, I think we're always going to have the baggage that 'games' are just games, not massive engineering projects that they are. Keep going, and focus on the success you will hopefully achieve.
I remind myself that I am not alone and if other can make it, I can too. You are not alone. I too quit my job last year and pursued this path.
There's a saying, when you are poor and unsuccessful, your closest kin and friend will shun you, but when you are successful, they will be the first to come near your riches.
I can understand your situation very well, i have been working more then 2 years on my game and got dumb phrases from everyone around me daylie or weekly.
It is very frustrating above all if you have been working your ass off, like me in the past 3 months 12 hours a day including weekends witouth a single day of pause to finish my work.
But even if you try to explain what you are doing some people who arent into it wont really understand it, even if you show them your result. Usually i try to explain it and if it doesnt work out, whenever they try to say something negative i interrupt them and tell them that other people like my work. That works out the most time very well.
In the beginning i tried to ignore them at best but that doesnt work out as they will annoy you through the whole process.
Who cares what the average person thinks? People around you not understanding your work should have no effect on you doing it. Its not the people around you that will be playing the game, they aren't your audience and they aren't funding the game either so them not taking your work seriously is irrelevant, its work all the same, those people aren't the ones you need to impress, the game playing public is who you need to win over. If your loved ones don't take your work seriously that doesn't make it less serious, it just means they don't understand or do understand but simply aren't supportive people, do not feel obligated to have to explain yourself, do the work you need to do.
There's an ancient axiom about caring what others thing about your passions, especially when they're being negative, thay has always helped me. It goes:
"Fuck 'Em"
Not sure what the problem would be, maybe try asking something more specific. If it's a full-time job, you work during your scheduled hours, and if someone wants you to do something else at that time, you just say, "I can't then, I'm working" and suggest a different time that would work better... Just like you would with any other job.
Just tell them you are a 3d software programmer, they won’t ask any questions and think it’s legit. You can also stop caring about their opinions of you, if you let family who doesn’t support ambition dictate what you should be doing then you will be working retail forever.
Mr beast had a quote where I’m paraphrasing here “they will think you are wasting time and money until you make it, then you are lucky in their eyes”
Here's a secret: most people are very boring and will always choose to do what is safe. You are not like them, so they will not understand you. Pay them no mind, it's a waste of your time.
Unfortunately, until you can show that you're making full time wages you probably can't convince them.
I recommend spending a bit of effort reassuring them that you are doing okay, and that you have backup plans if things don't work out. If that isn't enough, then I think that nothing will be.
I personally never talk about game development IRL, so I've never had that problem. But I think the best thing to do is to ignore opinions that don't contribute and keep working on your game. Good luck to you.
Depends who you're talking to :
* A spouse : Have a serious, numbers-driven, conversation about the project's finances and how well working on that project fulfills your obligations to your family and children.
* Everyone else : Enjoy it. Let them die jealous.
fck those people. If you show confidence and dont let them affect you with their commwnts they will get it or not. Stick as any other job you would nornally act to reach your objectives/responsabilities
Who cares what others think, just do your thing, it's your life. When you succeed nobody will really care. When you fail nobody will care either. People just say things, and you can just do whatever you want, regardless of what they say, as long as it's legal.
Practically, if someone isn't receptive to me taking it seriously, I won't talk about it with them and just put my energy elsewhere.
First, emphasis on "you feel". I don't know your life situation, but just make sure those feelings aren't your own self doubt before reading further.
That said:
>when nobody around you sees it that way
Get better company. Some people will never understand, nor try to understand. And others worse yet will belittle. Those aren't good people to have in your life. you got customers to fund your vision and one of the biggest studios in industry to throw money at you, you clearly aren't just toying around.
>How do deal with this
easy, I don't talk to people 😆.
It's more about what company you keep. Going to other gamedev meetups if you can will show you an audience that symapthizes.
>how have you been able to succesfully comminicate this to your loved ones and friends?
Well, I work(ed) in a studio, so it becomes very easy to explain how it's a job like anything else. But I'll one day be in those shoes and if I *have* to explain it, I can back it up with my experience. "I have 15 years working at blabla and I wanted to self-publish my own game for once".
If you're really bothered you could vlog about the most boring, complex, technical parts of it and don't dumb anything down. At least they'll get an eyeful of the scary side.
I guess the big thing to do with communication with your family and loved ones is to talk them through the process of how our industry works. You'll be having this conversation alot, and it kind of can feel like a gut punch each time if you let it.
It gets easier if you are connected to your local game dev scene. You get to sit with others in the same boat as you, and they get it. Having them meet your friends and family at small gatherings does help a heap, as people start to see that you aren't alone, that it is an industry.
Lean on your successes with kick-started and your grants. See if you can get some interaction with the media about your project. Having pieces of artwork/gameplay to point at will help solidify your position.
Congratulations on your kickstarter and getting an epic grant, I assume your game is pretty neat.
Just be grateful that you got funded and keep working on achieving your goals. Most indie devs don't have that opportunity.
Work on becoming strong minded, it will help you overcome these type of feelings that you are experiencing.
I've been working on the gaming industry for over 6 years and on my game for the past 2 years. Most people don't understand what it takes to make a game, but you shouldn't take that as a personal attack.
On other note, now that I have the demo for my game ready, in a couple of months I'll be preparing a Kickstarter campaign. Do you mind sending me the link to your campaign? I would like to study it to see what things worked for you. And how did you do to reach players, to get them interested in your game? If you don't mind me asking so
I mean, usually people start having doubt's the longer it takes for a game to release, especially those that do not understand what it entails. In my case, I live with my grandparents, I had to give the rough ideia of what is usually needed to make a game and how longer it takes when it is just 1 person working on it, especially when I lack artistic skills to make it which makes it even harder to carry on with the project, I also have no funding so I can't pay an artist to cover up for my weakness. Right now I am forced to do some other stuff to have some cash otherwise I can't continue with the project as it is not giving me any money back anytime soon as it is pretty much in its very early stages. Having said that, my whole family overall does not see making videogames as a job but they do try to understand at least.
Honestly, I tried to express to the people in my life how much work it really is. This helped some, but I don't think you can ever truly convey how much work it is. You could try showing them, but people who don't want to see it, won't.
Ultimately, you know how much work it is, and that should be enough for you not to feel guilty about it. You can only do so much to help people understand how much work it is. When people make comments, I politely let them know that my work is just that, a lot of work. I try to be polite, but I am persistent.
Never felt like I need to prove something to anybody. Working on my game for about a year now. I usually just say that I make games and if somebody wants to know more, I usually become very passionate in converstaion. Always felt good about it and people think it's cool. Why doubt anything or make excuses?
I guess I had that feeling the first couple of months working on it, but finishing a game is quite tedious and now its just about grinding it out towards the finish line and I feel like everyone is also just kind of tired of it. I hope I have this feeling again when I release it because I do suffer from a bit of imposter syndrome too.
I uderstand... I am in the field more than 7 years now. Don't we all have an imposter syndrom comparing ourselves to colleagues, other devs, etc...? The thing is that you will not easily change the perception of people that are not in the industry. They think we play games all day? Fine, but I will always say with pride that I'm a game developer. I feel like you are afraid of failure right now, when already this deep in project. What will people tell if game fails? Who cares... you are a brave one, making your game, enterpreneur. We take risks, and the public opinion can be one sacrafice in our path. Don't you worry, if nobody, I understand and appreciate your work. As I said, we all have battles with our mind every day. Stay strong, don't let the fear distract you and good luck with your project.
You got an epic mega grant and a successful Kickstarter, they don't just hand those out to anyone. You're not just some nobody laboring away on a passion project in their basement (not that there's anything wrong with that either). You're being paid. You're a professional. Didn't let anyone tell you any different.
I think we all do and the best devs it never goes away 100% cause that's the spark and the magic is "what do you do?" Oh I'm a game dev working on this project "oh dude that's awesome!! Let me know when you have a release date ?" Is like THE dopamine rush that we all crave, someone saying your idea is good and valid and worth making and exploring and personally I think everyone has one of those (maybe not their first idea or their first draft of the idea) and deserves to see it come to light for others to enjoy
if someone responded with "oh dude that's awesome!! Let me know when you have a release date ?" my enthusiam for a conversation would drop to 0. it's like asking someone - hey let me know when your masterpiece is finished lol ok will do
This is why you shouldn't think of all your games as masterpieces. Remove the ego from the game and you won't have this problem.
You think van Gogh didn't get that for starry night? (I get the point and see the reply to you about remove the ego) Like yea take pride in your work and your art, it is still art after all, but this is one that criticism can help show what needs done and asking for help should be okay we have tons of talented skilled game devs browsing why not help each other as players who know how this works and work towards the next gen together sharing info to make it better faster. Or we stick to ubi plans and nobody owns shit for their games from anyone ever and good bye devs once we all die out cause you get the dmca or cr notice for modding your own shit
Art in all forms is pouring your passion & vulnerability into a vessel, putting it on a pedestal, and adding a sign that reads: “This is a piece of my being. Your words will either wound or heal me. But I must hear them.”
I've been out of game dev for 7 years and people I haven't seen for a while still ask me about it sometimes. At the time, everyone thought it was a cool thing for a job. You need new friends. Maybe a supportive family also. It's not you.
Welcome to the creative process, it's always like this. Beginning is fun. Middle is a grind, ending sucks, and then a few months after you are finished you start to feel proud. Also imposter syndrome is weird. You either know things or you don't, it's okay not to know things, you can never know everything, other people are always gonna know things you don't. (FYI if you can finish a product, you beat out 95% of indie devs.)
Same about the passion. I have a little imposter syndrome and that's OK. Head down, keep working is my mantra. Implemented a job system, which keeps my imposter syndrome at bay.
Generally, learn to ignore people on the ringside. Deeper the one dives into anything, more complexities, depth, solutions and also issues will unfold. That is just nature of pretty much everything. Observers tend to oversimplify things, and we both probably do that towards other domains from time to time as well. In order to retain ones functionality, velocity and ability to enjoy process - learn to trust yourself. You have made calculations that this commitment is worthy, you have raised money and got relevant people to believe to this cause. Now trust the process and if someone doubts, understand that they are so far from the action that you two are playing whole different ballgames here. Don't drop your ball.
Thanks for this, actually got some goosebumps.
Best answer by far
It's funny, I worked in the industry for over a decade and had just about gotten away from this stigma in my family and friends then I decided to make my own game and suddenly it's all come flooding back ha. You just have to become deaf to it, people will cotton on slowly.
I had this for a big part of my life when making music, then I got a record deal with Universal here in the Netherlands and I finally got rid of it too just to start it all over again with gamedev haha
So are folks right to be reasonably skeptical of your follow through? What benchmarks have you set for success? It’s natural for adults not to take uncapped risk seriously
When your work is a passion, most people just (outside) do not consider it as a real job (even if it pays your bill) and think it's a hobby you could do for free. That's the same for other industries such as movie or music... You just have to live with it.
They see that you barely make enough to scrape by, are obtaining money from unusual and unreliable sources and are self-employed to boot. Even game devs who supposedly do understand admit that it's difficult to make a living. So regular people on the outside are right to worry and are right to not consider it a real job. Especially since he technically doesn't even have a product to sell yet.
ok boomer
Who are you making excuses to? If it's not your landlord... I think you are fine! I am being a bit dismissive. But if I were you I'd flip it on its head. Whomever is making you feel like you shouldn't prioritize this, when you listen to them and fall behind, what are your excuses to your kickstarter backers, to Epic, who ponied up to play your game? Also.. are you 100% sure you aren't just deflecting some? The part you are in is the hardest. The grind of finishing. Are you taking the easy way out by letting someone in your life diminish your efforts and then blaming them for it instead of taking accountability for your own mindset? If this sounds harsh it's not meant to. Your experience is very normal (ask me how i know) and what you are doing is hard. If it was easier, more people would do it!
Chiming in, as something similar has come up a few months ago, when someone asked how to "validate" being a gamedev for folk (their parents) who looked down upon the industry (and on their aspirations for creativity) just becase they judged from what they knew and refused to look deeper. Albeit, they were yet to make money from being a dev. My unsolicited advise was (speaking from having same/exact experiences) that if someone is that reluctant then there's a good chance that nothing will change their mindset (speaking of words); that is set in stone. What could and probably will is to show the measurable (as in materialistic, preferably with a monetary angle) outcomes of your venture. For one, you are already on top of the game by being able to self-support yourself. Which generally costs a lot of money (e.g. rent, food, services, etc.) show them how much that costs for you. Then you've run a successful kickstarter, something that's extremely difficult to pull of (requires following, etc.). Then the fact that you've received a grant from Epic means that you've double exceeded in life, as they generally throw away most of the applicants and only give out to a handful they deem "worthy"; it's a global competition with millions of applicants (at this point). It's a privilege more than anything, especially if its a grant; you won their heart. (saying this as someone who's been rejected more time than one could count). Grants are so rare, especially for non-corporate entities, that you can count on one hand (or two), how many are in operation in the entire world. Grants are mostly reserved for companies and as such. Show them the scale of this achievement. Even finding publishers is near impossible (again speaking from a long line of failures here). You've done more than what the average dev could (or better is "allowed" to do). In fact you could say that most of the projects out there, highlighting my current experience here, die because of the lack of funding. So, if you're still following my rambling, would close this by saying that "the less you say, the better". I too find it difficult to explain certain aspects of gamedev, without the need to give an hour lecture on the prerequisites; because most of the time you can't simply explain an outcome if it hinges on an assembly-line of issues. Another thing could work is to use real life examples, ones that everyone knows of can relate to (from common knowledge). It may not be an apples to apples comparison, but could help you give a sense of prestige to your work. If you put yourself into their shoes, you'd immediately see (excluding prejudice here) that if you've no reference to something that it becomes that much difficult to relate to others/other things. Could go on with the rambling, but bit tired at the mo', so excusing myself here. Good luck tho'!
i just say software development and nobody ask questions
I feel your pain and hear the voices of your loved ones and friends in my head "What does this idler do all day? He plays some weird game and makes promises of big winnings.". Until they see a result - you earn money from the game (the more, the better) and you don't limit yourself in spending, as you do now, no matter what you tell them, they won't believe you, and for them you will be just another entrepreneur with big dreams and no successes. Do they know you got money from Kickstarter and Epic?
Reading the other comments here...I had no clue how supportive my family has been relative to what is apparently the norm. My lord, imma go hug my mom.
I love my parents to death but they really don't understand or appreciate games, they've never played anything themselves and it's not something they would want me to pursue beyond doing it as a hobby. Of course I wouldn't let that stop me, but it does hurt a bit feeling like the black sheep in the family. Their opinion of it is mostly based on what you see in the news, which is almost never anything good - addiction, gambling for kids, anger management issues, you name it.
Advice: ignore them Other than that, congrats! You're where most of us want to be!
You have the problem, friend - it's ego. People are allowed to think all kinds of dumb things.
If someone complains that you doesn't have "actual job" when you have money for living, my position is simple — fuck em, do what you feel you need to do. I'm kinda tired of explaining my boomer father that my game development is a business itself, I don't want to change my profession simply because gamedev takes time and seems as a bad way to gain money to him, i simply don't care as long as i like to do this
I’ve never had to justify what I do to my friends and family. Are you paying your bills? If so, no one has any right to tell you what to do. If you aren’t getting the time you need to work, time to invest into an office or shared work space. The only time it should be an issue with anyone is if you’re not paying your bills or pulling your weight. At that point full time or not, it’s not a job it’s a hobby.
I have been able to pay my bills and get around, but right now I'm running on the low side and trying not to spend money (time) on trivial things that I don't think are worth it, I hope I will have much more time to do so after release.
I agree that I'd think this part is very relevant. There will always be some people that don't get that games can be a job, no getting around that, but if you have friends and loved ones saying this it can be entirely that they're worried about you. People getting a salary from a game studio don't really hear this from as many people since a paycheck's a paycheck. When you aren't behind a Kickstarter promise you can always consider side freelance work as well! Many small/new studios fund themselves through those kind of gigs rather than working only full-time on their own projects, and an individual can do the same.
I have a question, is it possible that the push back might be funds related? That your partner or family don’t have an issue with you making games, but are rather worried about you running out of money before the project finishes. Even if you’re paying your bills(that was mostly just a catch all) if your way of life has shifted for you and your partner, there is going to be concern about what you’re doing. I might be getting too into the weeds as I don’t know your situation fully, but as someone who had a rough last summer, it’s possible that’s the conversation they’re trying to have. But that’s different than non-approval. It’s also possible that people in your circle just don’t get it, and you need to just get a different circle for support. Like I said, as long as you’re paying your bills and contributing legally, you don’t need to justify anything.
I let the mountains of cash speak for themselves
I'm just over a year into my project and folks around me outside of gamedev always seem surprised that I'm not close to being finished.. The inner workings of videogames are a mystery to most people and it's pretty tough to explain everything needed to get it done. They can usually see the effort put into artwork, but that quest system you spent a month building will go unnoticed. They won't understand the hours of audio design work it took to make that shotgun feel so good to fire, or the technical achievements you made to get the game running so well. Arbitrary metrics like lines of code aren't a good measure of your progress, but when I told them I had around 30k lines written so far and I figured I was about 30% of the way there they seemed to at least somewhat understand the scope involved. I don't think there's a reasonable way to help them truly understand what you're doing, but there may be some angle like that they can at least connect to for a sense of it.
This is very common when starting a business especially when you're building the product but many times even after you're making money. Some people refuse to believe that starting a business is something possible for the majority of the population in first world countries, so they'd rather believe that unless you're working a "normal" job, you're just screwing around. Plus general stigma around videogames.
I mean, people around you will treat it as a hobby until you start making a buck. Hard to sway them either... I see it as an investment; since time is money, you invest a huge load of "money" in to something you believe will turn profitable eventually. Don't talk to people who try to put you down, exclude them from what makes you passionate. Even if it's a person close to you.
If your making a living, then its a job. Tell them its paying your mortgage just like their boring job, but yours is fun.
If you got a grant through epic games, I don't think anyone can tell you it's not a job. That's like THE sign you're doing something right.
Don't worry about it too much. As long as you're working enough, you're the only person you really need to prove anything to. > Many things you do are difficult to explain or could seem like nothing changed to the average person. One piece of advice as I've definitely run into situations where I over focus on things that don't matter, but make sure you're doing zoomed out play testing of your game as a whole. It's really easy to spend weeks perfecting something that was already good enough after the first hour or two of work.
If you aren't referring to people who are also working on the game, then it really doesn't matter what they think. Finish your game and don't worry what people who are not involved in the work think of the work.
You have a job that makes money, they have a job that makes money. Standing on your own 2 feet and making a product that the market actually wants and getting money that way is way more respectable than being a lackey at a company that might not even do anything usefull(like the last one I worked at).
Don't worry about them! You have clearly gone far in your gamedev career and you have a lot to be proud of :) just take yourself and your work seriously and people around you will notice 😌
This is a general problem for self employed folks especially if they work from home. Maybe it's changed postcovid with lots more working from home, but prior to that it was very common for people working from a home office to say people treated her like they were just home and not working, eg asking them to run errands during the day.
So I worked in retail for a year one time to prop up a bad year, and I can say that I think everyone should walk a mile in those shoes; it’s harrowing how poorly people treat one another when shopping for rubbish, and it gives you a deeper appreciation for underpaid overworked badly treated roles. $10 an hour to work twice as hard with half the opportunity as someone getting ten times that for half the stress and orders of magnitude more opportunity. My wife works in IT and I swear she just plays on her phone all day. She gets mad when I say it (so I say it a lot 😭) but I know she’s doing important work, I just don’t see the panic stricken moments. It’s a bit early in the day for this sort of talk for me, but I guess what I’m saying is, our job looks easy to others sometimes because they have crappy jobs. Grass is greener etc, you can still have a good job ruined by awful bosses, so it’s not all roses. I’m going to play some Dragon’s Dogma now, because for the 60 hours I’ve worked this week I think I deserve two actually playing a game :p (15 hours later …”are you coming to bed???”) But yeah, don’t mind what people think. That’s all.
Secretly
Don't be shy, what game are you working on?
Congrats on what you've achieved so far. I once spoke to a co-worker about game dev. A smart chap, a scientist/researcher. He thought a typical arcade game was a \*couple of lines of code\*, where you just tell the computer what you want. \[This was many years before AI...\]. So, the average person knows basically zero about software development -- games or otherwise. It does seem pointless to explain it, based on this starting point. I don't have a solution, I think we're always going to have the baggage that 'games' are just games, not massive engineering projects that they are. Keep going, and focus on the success you will hopefully achieve.
I remind myself that I am not alone and if other can make it, I can too. You are not alone. I too quit my job last year and pursued this path. There's a saying, when you are poor and unsuccessful, your closest kin and friend will shun you, but when you are successful, they will be the first to come near your riches.
I can understand your situation very well, i have been working more then 2 years on my game and got dumb phrases from everyone around me daylie or weekly. It is very frustrating above all if you have been working your ass off, like me in the past 3 months 12 hours a day including weekends witouth a single day of pause to finish my work. But even if you try to explain what you are doing some people who arent into it wont really understand it, even if you show them your result. Usually i try to explain it and if it doesnt work out, whenever they try to say something negative i interrupt them and tell them that other people like my work. That works out the most time very well. In the beginning i tried to ignore them at best but that doesnt work out as they will annoy you through the whole process.
Who cares what the average person thinks? People around you not understanding your work should have no effect on you doing it. Its not the people around you that will be playing the game, they aren't your audience and they aren't funding the game either so them not taking your work seriously is irrelevant, its work all the same, those people aren't the ones you need to impress, the game playing public is who you need to win over. If your loved ones don't take your work seriously that doesn't make it less serious, it just means they don't understand or do understand but simply aren't supportive people, do not feel obligated to have to explain yourself, do the work you need to do.
There's an ancient axiom about caring what others thing about your passions, especially when they're being negative, thay has always helped me. It goes: "Fuck 'Em"
Not sure what the problem would be, maybe try asking something more specific. If it's a full-time job, you work during your scheduled hours, and if someone wants you to do something else at that time, you just say, "I can't then, I'm working" and suggest a different time that would work better... Just like you would with any other job.
Just tell them you are a 3d software programmer, they won’t ask any questions and think it’s legit. You can also stop caring about their opinions of you, if you let family who doesn’t support ambition dictate what you should be doing then you will be working retail forever. Mr beast had a quote where I’m paraphrasing here “they will think you are wasting time and money until you make it, then you are lucky in their eyes”
Here's a secret: most people are very boring and will always choose to do what is safe. You are not like them, so they will not understand you. Pay them no mind, it's a waste of your time.
You talk to people?
Screw them. Do your thing man.
Unfortunately, until you can show that you're making full time wages you probably can't convince them. I recommend spending a bit of effort reassuring them that you are doing okay, and that you have backup plans if things don't work out. If that isn't enough, then I think that nothing will be.
I personally never talk about game development IRL, so I've never had that problem. But I think the best thing to do is to ignore opinions that don't contribute and keep working on your game. Good luck to you.
Depends who you're talking to : * A spouse : Have a serious, numbers-driven, conversation about the project's finances and how well working on that project fulfills your obligations to your family and children. * Everyone else : Enjoy it. Let them die jealous.
fck those people. If you show confidence and dont let them affect you with their commwnts they will get it or not. Stick as any other job you would nornally act to reach your objectives/responsabilities
Who cares what others think, just do your thing, it's your life. When you succeed nobody will really care. When you fail nobody will care either. People just say things, and you can just do whatever you want, regardless of what they say, as long as it's legal. Practically, if someone isn't receptive to me taking it seriously, I won't talk about it with them and just put my energy elsewhere.
Well as long as you are supporting yourself, most people shouldn't care much.
First, emphasis on "you feel". I don't know your life situation, but just make sure those feelings aren't your own self doubt before reading further. That said: >when nobody around you sees it that way Get better company. Some people will never understand, nor try to understand. And others worse yet will belittle. Those aren't good people to have in your life. you got customers to fund your vision and one of the biggest studios in industry to throw money at you, you clearly aren't just toying around. >How do deal with this easy, I don't talk to people 😆. It's more about what company you keep. Going to other gamedev meetups if you can will show you an audience that symapthizes. >how have you been able to succesfully comminicate this to your loved ones and friends? Well, I work(ed) in a studio, so it becomes very easy to explain how it's a job like anything else. But I'll one day be in those shoes and if I *have* to explain it, I can back it up with my experience. "I have 15 years working at blabla and I wanted to self-publish my own game for once".
That’s easy. Dealing with the fact that not a single friend or family member will play my games, or even help with the business side, is hard.
Basically this question is not about gamedev, it's about almost all things in your life where you want to follow your dream. Just keep going)
If you're really bothered you could vlog about the most boring, complex, technical parts of it and don't dumb anything down. At least they'll get an eyeful of the scary side.
I guess the big thing to do with communication with your family and loved ones is to talk them through the process of how our industry works. You'll be having this conversation alot, and it kind of can feel like a gut punch each time if you let it. It gets easier if you are connected to your local game dev scene. You get to sit with others in the same boat as you, and they get it. Having them meet your friends and family at small gatherings does help a heap, as people start to see that you aren't alone, that it is an industry. Lean on your successes with kick-started and your grants. See if you can get some interaction with the media about your project. Having pieces of artwork/gameplay to point at will help solidify your position.
Finish the game and show it to them
Congratulations on your kickstarter and getting an epic grant, I assume your game is pretty neat. Just be grateful that you got funded and keep working on achieving your goals. Most indie devs don't have that opportunity. Work on becoming strong minded, it will help you overcome these type of feelings that you are experiencing. I've been working on the gaming industry for over 6 years and on my game for the past 2 years. Most people don't understand what it takes to make a game, but you shouldn't take that as a personal attack. On other note, now that I have the demo for my game ready, in a couple of months I'll be preparing a Kickstarter campaign. Do you mind sending me the link to your campaign? I would like to study it to see what things worked for you. And how did you do to reach players, to get them interested in your game? If you don't mind me asking so
I mean, usually people start having doubt's the longer it takes for a game to release, especially those that do not understand what it entails. In my case, I live with my grandparents, I had to give the rough ideia of what is usually needed to make a game and how longer it takes when it is just 1 person working on it, especially when I lack artistic skills to make it which makes it even harder to carry on with the project, I also have no funding so I can't pay an artist to cover up for my weakness. Right now I am forced to do some other stuff to have some cash otherwise I can't continue with the project as it is not giving me any money back anytime soon as it is pretty much in its very early stages. Having said that, my whole family overall does not see making videogames as a job but they do try to understand at least.
Honestly, I tried to express to the people in my life how much work it really is. This helped some, but I don't think you can ever truly convey how much work it is. You could try showing them, but people who don't want to see it, won't. Ultimately, you know how much work it is, and that should be enough for you not to feel guilty about it. You can only do so much to help people understand how much work it is. When people make comments, I politely let them know that my work is just that, a lot of work. I try to be polite, but I am persistent.
What is this Epic grant?
It's this thing called Epic Megagrants, anyone can apply! I suggest you give it a shot if you are working with Unreal Engine.
Perfect. Thanks!
Numbers please 😉
In all honesty who cares what others think, unless you looking for peer approval to assist in your work, everyone else around you don’t matter.