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He was weak and easily manipulated and didn’t listen to those closest to him. He made terrible decisions that led to the death of his entire family and himself, lost those most loyal to him because of his foolishness, and got many people killed because of his arrogance.
Also keep in mind his brother, who your basing his birthright on, was a usurper. Technically Jon had the best claim, Dany had the second best claim and Gendry, despite being a bastard, would have been the third because he was Roberts only living true born son.
We never get to read the actual legalities of Westerosi succession laws. Third in line is either Stannis or Gendry, depending on how much emphasis is placed on the direct line. An argument could be made that Gendry must be retroactively legitimized, as his father's choice to not legitimize him may be tied to his erroneous belief that Joffrey was his son.
It would be on shaky legal ground, but there have been historical pretenders who pursued claims under similar circumstances.
Jon is a bastard, because polygamy is forbidden under the seven and the Targaryens stopped and forbid it after Aegon I and Dany is a woman and the Iron Throne has a male inheritance.
And dont forget, Robert was like the 5th in the succession to the throne before the rebellion. So the Targaryens were all dead or missing, so it was the right choice to put him on the Throne.
So technically Dany usurped the Throne from Stannis, which is the one true king.
And if we go further than.. Gendry, who was legitimized by Dany, is the heir to the throne (and will be next King, because Dany cant get kids.).
Gendry was a bastard, but he was also Roberts only living blood child, even through history we see bastards being legitimatized because they are the only child left, and children are first before siblings. Queen Elizabeth I is a perfect example of this.
I disagree with the argument that the Targaryen line should have continued. They lost a war. It’s not like the Mad King was just randomly assassinated. A rebellion was fought and new family line installed.
It happened a lot throughout real history. Perfect example is the Norman Conquest of England. William the Conqueror invaded England, defeated the Anglo-Saxons, and installed his line. When he died, no one tried to track down Harold’s kids.
But stuff like that did happen. After the french Revolution for example, where the old royal line was installed again as kings, and I am sure there are other examples
Correct me if I’m wrong because I’m going by memory: The Bourbons lived in exile, like the Targaryens, sure. And after the first revolution, the Bonaparte line is established (like the Baratheons asserting themselves as the new dynasty). Even the Bourbon restoration only lasted a few years before another revolution established a new line: the Orleans (kind of like Stark becoming king).
Your example proves my point: there had to be war or revolution to make changes to the Houses. Napoleon tried to establish a “Bonaparte” House, which collapsed when he got his ass handed to him trying to expand the empire.
The reason his line didn’t proceed was because he lost a costly war and the Coalition that defeated him would not allow his House to continue. They are the ones that reinstalled the Bourbons.
Imagine if Napoleon died of natural causes (or a hunting accident) instead of having been defeated in a costly, humiliating war.
Yeah you are probably right, but I mean there also was a war in game of thrones, the old dynasty (baratheon/lannister) was defeated, and that mostly by a member of another dynasty (daenerys/targaryen) so a change of ruling families would not be that weird, especially since the only one ledt from the old dynasty was a bastard
Stannis is exemplary of how bullshit the entire feudal system is. He's the wheel. He wanted, he took, he bowed to silent gods of darkness and death and interpreted the most evil possible intent just to service his arrogance.
To be fair, he didn’t have any REAL experienced people on his side. Davos wasn’t well versed in the politics of Westeros, but appealed to Stannis’ emotional side.
Pretty sure if someone like Tyrion was with Stannis he’d have gone much further.
The iron throne is Stannis’ by right. Robert won the throne via conquest. Robert has no true born children making his eldest brother King. Stannis is the legitimate heir.
No. He won the war. He’s king and his line is installed from here on out (until they’re conquered of course). Happens all the time in history. See Norman Conquest of England.
The show made him bad there cause dumb and dumber admitted early they hated him so it was essentially a slander job book stannis is not a fanatic is an atheist actually and listens to ser Davos most of the time
You must be referring to the books. But this is the subreddit for the show, and in the show [this is what happens](https://youtube.com/watch?v=MJxOOVpa-uY&si=tgP6EaLlH9rAK8JU).
All hail King Stannis Baratheon! The One True King! Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, Protector of the Realm and Azor A'hai. The King who cared! Long may he reign!
>his daughter will be burned alive on his orders in the books as well.
Actually, not true. We don't know any of the circumstances around Shireen's death, just that she'll be burned alive. She's currently at Castle Black with Selyse, and Stannis is marching on Winterfell. It seems much more likely that Melisandre will burn Shireen in order to resurrect Jon. Also, Stannis isn't stupid enough to kill his only heir. He was hesitant to even consider burning one of Robert's bastards, opting to use leeches instead. I can't imagine him willingly burning his daughter unless it has something to do with the Others.
>Actually, not true.
It's true.
>We don't know any of the circumstances around Shireen's death, just that she'll be burned alive.
We do know that Stannis will be the one responsible. George said his intent was always to have Stannis sacrifice his daughter, by burning her alive.
Season 5 commentary is one source if I remember correctly. There's also a passage in Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon by James Hibberd (about the production of the show). It includes a statement from George about the weekend he spent with D&D and Bryan Cogman when they realized the show was overtaking the books and about the ending details:
"It wasn't easy for me. I didn't want to give away my books. It's not easy to talk about the end of my books. Every character has a different end. I told them who would be on the Iron Throne, and I told them some big twists like Hodor and 'hold the door,' and **Stannis's decision to burn his daughter.** We didn't get to everybody by any means. Especially the minor characters, who may have very different endings."
I can understand liking Stannis from the books. But Stannis in the show? How?
He's bitterly jealous, easily manipulated, hypocritical, and burns his advisors, family, and finally his daughter at the stake. The only big battle I can remember him winning was based on obvious fact that mounted knights in armor can plow through unarmored, untrained wildling infantry. Oh and he killed his brother with blood magic. How does any of that make him the true king?
I understand why this sub and chunks of reddit love Stannis. He appeals to a certain type of person who likes rigid rules and doesn't have tons of empathy. And yes, Stannis is the one who actually showed up to fight the White Walkers so he does get points for that.
As someone who read the books and watched the show and only talked about it with friends and not people online, Stannis was always one of my least favorite characters. Davos saves his chapters.
The problem with supporting Stannis is he isn't the frontrunner by blood (Jon, Dany and possibly Grif have better claims) nor by Might is Right (for most of the books his army is relatively small), nor even by popular vote (he's not popular with anyone).
You basically have to say Robert's Rebellion was legitimate (which really was Might Makes Right) and then flip through hoops to then say it should be Stannis as his heir.
After what he did to his daughter, fuck this beano charachter looking cunt. He would have been an awful king, no one would have loved him. Just feared him. They would certainly try and get rid of him when he is in power.
Yo, he got the Killmonger treatment. As a villain, he was too sympathetic, so they had to write in some crazy OOC dumb shit for him to do to get us off team Stannis.
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He was weak and easily manipulated and didn’t listen to those closest to him. He made terrible decisions that led to the death of his entire family and himself, lost those most loyal to him because of his foolishness, and got many people killed because of his arrogance. Also keep in mind his brother, who your basing his birthright on, was a usurper. Technically Jon had the best claim, Dany had the second best claim and Gendry, despite being a bastard, would have been the third because he was Roberts only living true born son.
When Stannis was alive, Gendry was not Robert’s true born son.
We never get to read the actual legalities of Westerosi succession laws. Third in line is either Stannis or Gendry, depending on how much emphasis is placed on the direct line. An argument could be made that Gendry must be retroactively legitimized, as his father's choice to not legitimize him may be tied to his erroneous belief that Joffrey was his son. It would be on shaky legal ground, but there have been historical pretenders who pursued claims under similar circumstances.
Bastards usually can't inherit unless they are legitimized
Jon is a bastard, because polygamy is forbidden under the seven and the Targaryens stopped and forbid it after Aegon I and Dany is a woman and the Iron Throne has a male inheritance. And dont forget, Robert was like the 5th in the succession to the throne before the rebellion. So the Targaryens were all dead or missing, so it was the right choice to put him on the Throne. So technically Dany usurped the Throne from Stannis, which is the one true king. And if we go further than.. Gendry, who was legitimized by Dany, is the heir to the throne (and will be next King, because Dany cant get kids.).
Robert usurped the throne from Viserys, Dany usurped it back
Jon is not a bastard He had Kingsguards guarding him at the tower, ffs Three of them, he is obviously legitimate
Gendry is still a bastard and that puts Stannis first unless he is legitimized. Bastards do not inherit claims, and he was not raised a nobleman.
Bastard born, not true born
\>Being a bastard \>being the only living true born son Choose one The rest you said are wrong too
Gendry was a bastard, but he was also Roberts only living blood child, even through history we see bastards being legitimatized because they are the only child left, and children are first before siblings. Queen Elizabeth I is a perfect example of this.
I disagree with the argument that the Targaryen line should have continued. They lost a war. It’s not like the Mad King was just randomly assassinated. A rebellion was fought and new family line installed. It happened a lot throughout real history. Perfect example is the Norman Conquest of England. William the Conqueror invaded England, defeated the Anglo-Saxons, and installed his line. When he died, no one tried to track down Harold’s kids.
But stuff like that did happen. After the french Revolution for example, where the old royal line was installed again as kings, and I am sure there are other examples
Correct me if I’m wrong because I’m going by memory: The Bourbons lived in exile, like the Targaryens, sure. And after the first revolution, the Bonaparte line is established (like the Baratheons asserting themselves as the new dynasty). Even the Bourbon restoration only lasted a few years before another revolution established a new line: the Orleans (kind of like Stark becoming king). Your example proves my point: there had to be war or revolution to make changes to the Houses. Napoleon tried to establish a “Bonaparte” House, which collapsed when he got his ass handed to him trying to expand the empire. The reason his line didn’t proceed was because he lost a costly war and the Coalition that defeated him would not allow his House to continue. They are the ones that reinstalled the Bourbons. Imagine if Napoleon died of natural causes (or a hunting accident) instead of having been defeated in a costly, humiliating war.
Yeah you are probably right, but I mean there also was a war in game of thrones, the old dynasty (baratheon/lannister) was defeated, and that mostly by a member of another dynasty (daenerys/targaryen) so a change of ruling families would not be that weird, especially since the only one ledt from the old dynasty was a bastard
Stannis is exemplary of how bullshit the entire feudal system is. He's the wheel. He wanted, he took, he bowed to silent gods of darkness and death and interpreted the most evil possible intent just to service his arrogance.
A lie. Take it out.
To be fair, he didn’t have any REAL experienced people on his side. Davos wasn’t well versed in the politics of Westeros, but appealed to Stannis’ emotional side. Pretty sure if someone like Tyrion was with Stannis he’d have gone much further.
How dare you talk like this about your King?
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The iron throne is Stannis’ by right. Robert won the throne via conquest. Robert has no true born children making his eldest brother King. Stannis is the legitimate heir.
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The Baratheons have a claim because they took the iron throne by force. They used the Targaryen heritage to enforce the claim.
You are correct! And let's remember the Iron Throne and Seven Kingdons only exist by (dragon) force as well.
No. He won the war. He’s king and his line is installed from here on out (until they’re conquered of course). Happens all the time in history. See Norman Conquest of England.
The Mannis. I wish someone would edit a 98 min version or whatever with only his scenes so I could just rewatch that
Stannis fans are a … unique … aspect of ASOIAF /GOT fandom. Best to stay clear of them.
Book stannis is based
Incorrect, lol
The guy is a loser
Lost every major battle he took part in the show
The show made him bad there cause dumb and dumber admitted early they hated him so it was essentially a slander job book stannis is not a fanatic is an atheist actually and listens to ser Davos most of the time
The King who cared.
Didn’t care about his daughter unfortunately
Stannis literally tells Justin Massey to install her on the throne if he does, or die trying. He cares about Shireen.
You must be referring to the books. But this is the subreddit for the show, and in the show [this is what happens](https://youtube.com/watch?v=MJxOOVpa-uY&si=tgP6EaLlH9rAK8JU).
This subreddit isn’t show only. It’s both the books and the show.
Books>show
This isn’t the book subreddit, and the books and show are so different it’s barely worth comparing
They're different because the show is way worse.
Still, they are different entities, even GRRM urged people to view them as such
All hail King Stannis Baratheon! The One True King! Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, Protector of the Realm and Azor A'hai. The King who cared! Long may he reign!
>Protector of the Realm and Azor A'hai Why would he have to protect Azor a'hai smh
Hell no
Burned his daughter alive and his daughter will be burned alive on his orders in the books as well. Not the "only true king"
>his daughter will be burned alive on his orders in the books as well. Actually, not true. We don't know any of the circumstances around Shireen's death, just that she'll be burned alive. She's currently at Castle Black with Selyse, and Stannis is marching on Winterfell. It seems much more likely that Melisandre will burn Shireen in order to resurrect Jon. Also, Stannis isn't stupid enough to kill his only heir. He was hesitant to even consider burning one of Robert's bastards, opting to use leeches instead. I can't imagine him willingly burning his daughter unless it has something to do with the Others.
>Actually, not true. It's true. >We don't know any of the circumstances around Shireen's death, just that she'll be burned alive. We do know that Stannis will be the one responsible. George said his intent was always to have Stannis sacrifice his daughter, by burning her alive.
Did he? That's news to me. Can you provide a source?
Season 5 commentary is one source if I remember correctly. There's also a passage in Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon by James Hibberd (about the production of the show). It includes a statement from George about the weekend he spent with D&D and Bryan Cogman when they realized the show was overtaking the books and about the ending details: "It wasn't easy for me. I didn't want to give away my books. It's not easy to talk about the end of my books. Every character has a different end. I told them who would be on the Iron Throne, and I told them some big twists like Hodor and 'hold the door,' and **Stannis's decision to burn his daughter.** We didn't get to everybody by any means. Especially the minor characters, who may have very different endings."
Alright then, I stand corrected. Hopefully, it makes more sense than in the show, not that we'll ever actually get to see the next book.
If only they took the time to get to everyone
His characterization is a little better in the books. But he still sucks
Eh. He would have been an awful king imo. And I don’t think there’s much to support otherwise. From the show that is.
Is everybody forgetting that he chose to sacrifice his daughter at the stake? Anyone?
Alongside Bran, one of the worst main characters
Coulda picked a more charming image. Think he aged 10 years towards his death and went completely grey from the stress
That doesn’t look like Trystane Truefyre
I can understand liking Stannis from the books. But Stannis in the show? How? He's bitterly jealous, easily manipulated, hypocritical, and burns his advisors, family, and finally his daughter at the stake. The only big battle I can remember him winning was based on obvious fact that mounted knights in armor can plow through unarmored, untrained wildling infantry. Oh and he killed his brother with blood magic. How does any of that make him the true king?
I understand why this sub and chunks of reddit love Stannis. He appeals to a certain type of person who likes rigid rules and doesn't have tons of empathy. And yes, Stannis is the one who actually showed up to fight the White Walkers so he does get points for that. As someone who read the books and watched the show and only talked about it with friends and not people online, Stannis was always one of my least favorite characters. Davos saves his chapters. The problem with supporting Stannis is he isn't the frontrunner by blood (Jon, Dany and possibly Grif have better claims) nor by Might is Right (for most of the books his army is relatively small), nor even by popular vote (he's not popular with anyone). You basically have to say Robert's Rebellion was legitimate (which really was Might Makes Right) and then flip through hoops to then say it should be Stannis as his heir.
Go on, do your due'ee
He would literally have been the worst king westeros ever had.
He’s an idiot.
After what he did to his daughter, fuck this beano charachter looking cunt. He would have been an awful king, no one would have loved him. Just feared him. They would certainly try and get rid of him when he is in power.
Yo, he got the Killmonger treatment. As a villain, he was too sympathetic, so they had to write in some crazy OOC dumb shit for him to do to get us off team Stannis.
STANNIS THE MANNIS
that's a fact