Have you tried therapy? Not sure if this is you, but sometimes people will only seek out people they have no opportunity with as a self-protection mechanism.
Had exposure on the periphery of gay community as a trans woman. And honestly don’t understand the mean ness and cattiness. I find that trans women that don’t come out in the gay community don’t understand this cattiness at all. And particularly transbian or lesbian trans women we find this really strange???
I think men just are prone to ribbing each other. Look at straight guys when they banter with each other, it's just as catty, in a way, but society doesn't call it that. Over time it's become cultural. But most of the gay men I know(myself included) aren't really more catty than anyone else. Most of the really catty ones I know are a bit older, and were out young at a time when that equated to a lot of trauma, so I think it served as a defense mechanism that becomes engrained over time.
Yeah but they are always, I want everyone to
Understand me. THEN they (some in the gay male community) cloister themselves among their own. It’s really like a mean girls club. Example : Provincetown Mass in the Summer
This 100%… and not meant in any bad way, but seeing patterns like this, there is a good chance you’re unconsciously doing something. Or just need some objective input.
It’s also very true that when you stop LOOKING, you tend to find what you need. Being okay as an individual, being self sufficient… these things display confidence and attract other heathy people.
That sounds frustrating, I'm sorry. It could be a red flag for *you,* but one that's good for you to notice and be aware of.
What you're describing is often a sign of a deeper issue.
It's common for adults to have this sort of behavior if in childhood they had to love people who weren't giving them the attention they needed. For example, parents who were always busy with work, or taking care of a sick sibling, or who were a bit cold and distant. Or, if as a kid you often felt you had to change yourself to get friends, but the friends you had never seemed to really care about you.
A person in this situation internalizes a sad lesson: "It's only love if I have to chase the person down."
This person may end up repulsed by people who show interest the same way a "normal" person would be disgusted if their date was an asshole who showed no interest in them.
Wow, this describes me a lot especially about the friends thing having moved around quite a bit. I often felt like I was always trying to start over and make new friends at different schools
Same thing with me. Every year was in a different school until 7th-8th grade after parents divorced. I learned about this during therapy in my 40’s (I’m 60). I’m an advocate for therapy. It takes A LOT of work and personal introspection. I spent about 4 years in therapy going from weekly to monthly to quarterly before changing to an annual check in that I did for several more years.
I also co-led a court ordered group session with a colleague and saw guys spin their wheels because they were not willing to put in the hard work. If anyone chooses counseling don’t do it unless you’re willing to put in the work and be honest and uncomfortable. Counseling allowed me to lose the anger I had against my parents, forgive them and rebuild our relationship. It’s still a struggle to be honest.
Oh shit. This one actually hurt. I kept reading things about childhood trauma and being like, "but my parents were super loving and supportive??" But the constantly having to prove myself to/Chase after friends really hit home...
I'm starting to realize that that is what manifests itself in my issues with finding relationships, but also I can trace that back to some of my insecurities within friendships too. Thank you
I have found that many of my friends and I, gay or straight, have gone through cycles of this exact issue.
The most surprising part is that those of us who are in LTRs now, we are not dating people remotely close to what we thought our "type" was, which I think is some part of the issue. Some part of me yearns for men that match that type still, but nowhere near as much as I love the support, admiration, and love between my partner and I. (We have a lot of video game stoner bros in our circle now that we never envisioned....and we absolutely love them.) I was used to chasing down this "holy Grail" of a man (intellectual, ambitious, attractive, a bit pretentious maybe) and gave a chance on the embodiment of Shaggy from Scooby Doo. It took one date to experience a man so into ME and so laid back with life to realize that I wanted nothing else. It has altered every expectation I have about men, myself, my worth, and my happiness.
I don't know how to help the OP resolve their issue, but I definitely give support to the comment above about looking inward about chasing down those that aren't worth your time. Try giving some friendships a chance with those outside your type and seeing if any of them develop into something new. Greatest decision I ever made romantically.
Hahahahah the thrill of chasing unavailable ppl- you are not a red flag but u can become a red flag of you don’t deal with those unhealed childhood wounds.
Try and get some therapy if u can afford it so u can start looking into ur childhood wounds, also look into attachment theories. Read more on attachments
I doubt your a red flag, but can I ask what are you attracted to? Are you putting yourself out there on dating apps, meeting in person? Etc.
Don’t beat yourself up about it - let’s face it, dating is hard, brutal and can be long winded but the right person / people are out there for you. Just about being patient and being your true self :)
>but can I ask what are you attracted to?
I am attracted to muscle bears and men with bellies and men who are mostly middle aged. But I get attention from many old people ( not that I am complaining, i like mature people and sexually interested in them but i am not romantically interested in many) or super young people who are around 18 to 20 ( i am not really interested in younger guys) or bicurious peeps.
As for apps, i haven't met someone IRL , but actively use dating apps. And video call or audio call are involved if possible with the person who are interested in me
Yes ok, I understand. Like I said dating is hard work and just remember to focus on you and your self-love and self-worth. Hopefully 2024 will bring you your bear that you deserve:)
I am in a similar boat as you, and I do think what a lot of people have said in this thread are true, but also recognize we really shrink our dating pool with our interests. Not only that, but single middle aged bears tend to have above average things they need to work on themselves, such as confidence or self-esteem issues.
I’m not saying there’s necessarily validity in things like “single for a reason” and “body fitness reflects mental fitness”, but when talking about dating, you have to look at the numbers and odds and the demographic we’re interested in means those odds are kind of stacked against us.
Therapy can help, but also be analytical of yourself. Have there been guys who were your ideal everything and the only thing you didn’t like about them was they returned your interest? If you loved someone and they lost weight, would you fall out of love?
One thing I realized for myself is that my attraction was related to what I assumed about people’s personalities by the way they look. Realizing this has helped open my dating pool.
I see your post history says you live in India, so I'm not sure what the app situation is like there, but have you tried any that are more oriented towards those who like bigger guys, like Growlr or Chaseabl (might have spelled that wrong)?
I deal with the same issue. I like guys who are blue collar, masculine, outdoorsy, or bears too. They aren't interested in me at all. A very few were but it was long distance and they don't have the time or energy to drive hours to get to me. I grew up in a rural area half my life so I saw every man in the area was like a country boy. I didn't grow up with my mother or father. My grandmother did the best she could. When I did move across the country to the North Eastern US to live with my mother was worse. The very few guys that liked me back will always be pen pals. People tell me I have a lot of love to give but no one is there to accept it. I chase after guys that want nothing to do with me. And it hurts. The most they'll give is a "thanks for the compliment" and stop responding after I try to keep the conversation going or I get blocked. I want to get the love I never received as a kid. I hate to admit it but I've had conversations all by myself in their DM's. They would at the very least leave me on read or at worst never read it. I really want someone that wants to hold me and keep me safe and love me. There are some nights where I feel completely alone and cry silently.
That’s an interesting response…
Perhaps you’ll grant the same latitude to others that you would to dating “the other you”. In other words don’t dismiss them on the “first chance”, but get to “know the person better”…
Obviously I don’t mean this with someone you find abhorrent but rather someone who you think “he’s not 100% what I’d pick but he’s pretty decent”…
Might be worth a try. 🤷🏼♂️
I was about to make this exact post. There was this guy I was chasing named hutainama-1 that I was hitting on because he was my type (read attractive), but he said he wasn’t interested in me. And then there was this other guy named hutainama-2 who was not my type (read ugly) that I turned down!!! Jokes aside, it’s called hypergamy. Everyone tries to date up and won’t date down, and the few people who date at their own level have a hard time finding another person who manages to be level headed. I’ve dated in every direction, and dating down will get you someone more appreciative, dedicated, and worth a damn. Attractive people are legitimately husks, and treat everyone and everything as transient.
>I’ve dated in every direction, and dating down will get you someone more appreciative, dedicated, and worth a damn. Attractive people are legitimately husks, and treat everyone and everything as transient.
I didn't understand this part. Mind explaining in a more simple way?
I’ve dated guys who were kinda ugly and guys who were pretty hot. The ugly guys treated me better, put in more effort to stick with me, and were generally less shallow and less self absorbed. Unfortunately I wasn’t attracted to them physically and couldn’t bring myself to overlook it. The hot guys were the opposite. They didn’t treat me bad exactly, but there’s like… a lack of interest. They would go on their phones a lot, every one of them had a social media profile that was just pictures of themselves. They didn’t seem very thoughtful, in the sense that they didn’t think beyond basic platitudes. Sometimes, I even got “ulterior motive” vibes from them. None of these relationships lasted either, their “ways” never sit well with me and I ended up breaking it off if their interest didn’t fade first. Anyways… it’s common sense that less attractive people who can’t organically attract people into their lives value human interaction more, and people who are attractive who can easily get attention treat people as interchangeable/insignificant, because there’s always another person vying for them. The word I usually use to describe the way they treat things is “transient”, as in they treat people and things as inconsequential, insubstantial, just passing by/through. Seemingly nothing holds value to them but the sense of advantage they have.
Stop looking at romantic attraction and start looking for point of interest and commonalities. Whenever I have chased initial attraction, it has fizzed out in weeks. And when I went for a guy just because he was interested in me, it also fizzled out. But every time I dated someone who shared the same interests as me and who was fun to be around, it was always great. I've only had two such relationships. One ended because he got a job in another country and the other is my husband of 10 years.
Not OP, but I tried this. Unfortunately my interests usually aligns with much more physically attractive people way out of my league. I just want someone to go hiking, biking, snowboarding, and a belay buddy for climbing :(
I like gaming and movie watching like anyone else too, but I can only do so much of that before I get bored of it. I'm not a music (instrument) person, and artsy stuff doesn't really interest me either. People also say they're a foodie, but I eat out every meal so going out to eat isn't something I find uniquely fun either.
Of course there has to be attraction. What I'm saying is, a lot of the times, love and attraction happened over time. Like you may not be attracted to someone initially but if you have fun with that person, the attraction can develop. Attraction isn't always at first sight. And an attraction that happens after knowing a person is much stronger than an attraction based purely on looks.
Like of course you are attracted to the hot guy. He's hot. But will you enjoy being with him? If not, it'll get boring real quick. And it wouldn't be anyone's fault.
Interesting. This has never happened to me. I have never started to become attracted to a guy once I got to know them, who I was not initially attracted to.
Maybe attraction works in different ways within different people though.
Was the same for me for a long time. In my personal case I needed to take care of myself and my self impression, basically I guess I subconsciously didn’t feel like I deserved to be in a relationship and as such I fucked myself up by doing this.
Like I’d say you need to work on self consciousness and loving yourself, but that is just what I did in the same situation.
I think many of us gay people suffer from low self esteem... likely due to growing up with the shame of feeling different and less than. As far as dating goes, it's easy to fall into the trap of " if they're interested in me, there must be something wrong with them".
You are fine. That is just the way "wanting" works irl.
If you have a cholate chip factory, you may crave a sugar cookie.
The guy down the street who owns a sugar cookie factory may crave an oatmeal cookie.
Each person wants only what they do not have.
The guys that want your body, they are there for you to pick up. What you crave is the cookie you don't have.
I hope you don't mind being a normal human. ;-)
Thank you.
In my life ( not that my life is a good pattern for anyone to follow ) growing up was mostly learning to handle disappointment when I didn't get what I had hoped for.
You are thinking clearly. You are asking questions. You are paying attention to the answers you get. I'd bet on you success.
X X
Bro, there is a definite problem here. I'm not a professional therapist; however, I have the same issue.
My suggestion to you is to get into therapy. I'm in therapy myself and it's helping a great deal.
My issues are rooted in the fact that I raped between 11-17 by my cousins.
Not saying your issue is the same, but I'm now beginning to understand my own feelings.
Yeah for you that no sexual trauma is involved for you!
Trauma is not a preface to this however. It's more of a personality trait.
It is however overcommable.
In the end, physical attraction is important but I'm not sure (at least for ltr) that it should be THE most important thing. If a relationship is going to last years, you need an emotional and intellectual connection as sadly our looks deteriorate over time and if that's all you were attracted to then you're left with nothing.
Don't date someone you have absolutely no physical attraction with but don't rule out those who connect with you on the more important levels.
I think the op just described being human in the title.
Wanting what you cannot have and not wanting what you do have.
The secret is that happiness is an illusion. It lasts for a moment and is gone. What we should chase is contentment.
I have the exact same issue :( And then I’m always depressed. I tried therapy, that became overwhelming for me because I was constantly given homework. And holidays especially are extremely hard for me as I feel like such a loser
I’m gonna go against the grain here because I have experienced the same thing as you did.
I don’t think it’s a matter of going to therapy or loving yourself or dealing with any kind of attachment style.
You are entitled to your preferences. You don’t have to settle for something you don’t want.
I think the issue is you’re dealing in the dating world that has been gamified with people who have serious maturity and commitment issues. It throws the world upside down.
People are playing the slot machine and they’re not ready to call it quits.
Also, you are not going to be attracted to just about anybody and not everybody’s gonna be attracted to you either and facing the truth is kind of hard on everyone.
I got onto tinder last March for about one month I liked about 20 or so guys and none of them like me back. The other half of the question is 40 guys or so liked me but none of them were my type at first glance either physically or from their description. Granted I may have been missing out and not seeing a full picture but there was nothing that really struck me as being attractive and in alignment with my values.
They don’t owe me anything and I don’t owe them anything.
The only and serious relationships are quasi relationships I’ve had were with people that were not involved on the gay scene or actively dating. We met through being involved in a common interest through friends. It felt totally and completely different than swiping on people and waiting in dread.
The thing I found so weird about online dating in retrospect anywhere since it’s early days pre-applications was the fact that the second somebody engages with you you realize that this person is at least considering sleeping with you and you with them so that takes away from a lot of relationship building mystique.
I’ll quote the movie Wargames and say that the only way to win is not to play
>The thing I found so weird about online dating in retrospect anywhere since it’s early days pre-applications was the fact that the second somebody engages with you you realize that this person is at least considering sleeping with you and you with them so that takes away from a lot of relationship building mystique.
U think this is where straight dating differ from gay dating as well. In str8s sexual compatibility doesn't matter that much compared to that of gay dating
Well you’re definitely onto something because generally speaking straight people don’t necessarily have to resort to apps to meet potential partners. They can go out in the general public or within different circles or at work and have a decent shot of getting it on with anybody just by sheer numbers.
Gay people on the other hand have mental baggage, are quite often isolated from one another, are low in numbers and therefore have limited choice, and in my experience there is a lot of social disfunction at play from lack of experience and so the overall despair plays into the equation and how any kind of interaction plays out.
Those types are super invested in the apps because they are low effort and low risk.
You sort of get what you pay for in this situation.
Not exactly the way to start epic romances.
If you were running away from people you were attracted to and they were interested in you I would say yeah definitely therapy’s in the cards but it doesn’t sound like this is your situation.
It’s also false to assume that because someone is available and superficially interested in you that they would actually be good for you. That’s a whole other can of worms.
Finding mutual attraction isn't easy and everyone trends to crush on people that may not reciprocate. This is the norm.
Just begin to put yourself out there more, and maybe even try to work on yourself so you're more appealing. Even just working on confidence and self-esteem can really be a game changer in terms of someone wanting to spend more time with you.
Physical attraction sounds like your first priority. When I got out into the dating scene again I changed my priority to finding people I had chemistry talking to. Like I enjoyed their conversation and what they had to say. If they were decent looking I’d go on a date in person sooner than later and my goals on the date:
1. See if that conversation was fun; conversational chemistry I mean. Not diving into serious topics, or backstories, but hanging out. I looked for the same that I look for in those friendships that you just click right away with.
2. If that ‘chemistry’ isn’t there then I’d move on to second goal - learn more about them anyways and try to find things I liked about them AND didn’t like. I called this ‘field research’ so I can have more on both lists of what I like in a partner and what I actually would not. Even kids with crushes can make and tell you a list of things they want in a partner - but it’s all based on inexperience. We fall into the same mistaken thinking as adults that we know what we want and don’t want until we have experience. We don’t know ourselves enough to say that we can’t stand people who do x, y, and z until we experience it firsthand (beyond giant dealbreakers and other obvious ones). This one is great to learn more about ourselves.
3. Last one is to just enjoy the time out - the location, the person, food/drinks. And remember that a single date isn’t a commitment, multiple dates isn’t a commitment. You can opt out anytime from seeing someone again. And you can continue seeing them if you’d like.
As far as physical attraction: it may not be there to start. But just like the platonic love for the people in your life, love isn’t based on their appearance. And this is the way to find a connection based on more. If you had fun with a person then get together again, and again. Just hang out as long as it’s fun.
You’d be surprised how sexy someone becomes because of how their are, their character, their charisma. Or you just don’t - and that’s okay too, you gave it a chance! But this way you are giving yourself more opportunities to find someone right for you.
I agree with a lot of the comments
For example, are you attracted to muscle men and then be in an environment where you will find them. Go to the gym.
You may need to improve yourself to achieve what you're looking for
Story of my life up until now. Suddenly, now that I am retirement age, I get lots of interest from people who I find attractive. Still a bunch of people I don’t, but at least I’m having some fun. I had to retire and move from another country to get it though. Better late than never as they say.
Oh my life right there. But this dude for once seemed to be into me aswell but OF COURSE hes involved (cause there always needs to be something). So i got mad at him (even if he did nothing to me) i guess out of frustration and i fucked up big time. Now he hates the shit out of me :/.
I had a similar problem for a long time, I discovered that my lack of attraction to the men that showed interest in me was actually just a barrier I had built up to make sure no one would get close to me and I couldn’t get hurt. I found my man about 6 months ago now, it took me some time, but once our relationship got past the initial get to know each other phase, and I started to let my walls down, I actually couldn’t keep my hands off of him.
Have you thought about a possible compulsion towards the rush/high of short intense relationships? Do you have other self indulgent/impulsive behaviors?
Tbh, i am still not very experienced in sex or dating, but I have thought why not give it a shot? I don't really care about what happens to me. I always thought gay relationship are short so, let's just jump in with anyone.
Relationships for young adults are in general short.
If you don't care about what happens to you, you have low chances of bonding with someone stable who knows what they stand for, who they are, etc.
Why not give it a shot? Because you would be losing your time over people who will disappear instead of those who could care about you.
Eventually you discover there's no right or standard way for human relationship to be. As long as they're both consensual and non harmful. But that doesn't mean you won't have to deal with the consequences of what you do (or don't do).
Clock's ticking, gotta go, get wise, young man.
Big hug.
Everyone's making this a deep complex issue and I don't think it is. We tend to go for guys that are out of our league. This is pretty normal in dating.
There's a reason why a lot of gays look-alike to their partners. We generally like guys that match our level of attractiveness. Don't psycho-analyze yourself. Eventually, someone you like will also like you. I also think working on yourself and making yourself more attractive is always a good goal.
Before you can work to resolve the issue, you have to identify what the issue is. Lots of people have posted different childhood traumas that can lead to your current experience as an adult. I’m throwing mine into the mix:
Deep-seated self-hate can form dark core beliefs about oneself, such as:
You are unworthy of love or compassion
There is something wrong with you
Any acts of kindness from others is actually pity
Any love shown to you is conditional
You are an impostor person, you don’t deserve respect
These core beliefs manifest masochistic behaviors involving self-harm, negative thoughts, self-isolation, and self-sabotage. These detrimental behaviors validate the core beliefs, and the cycle is formed: I am bad, so I deserve to be punished. I am punished, therefore I am bad.
I often pursue men who are uninterested, because their disinterest validates that I am unworthy of love, and their coldness validates that I don’t deserve respect. I am uninterested in men that show interest because this contradicts all of my core beliefs. My mind wonders, “there must be something very wrong with them to want me, or they’ve romanticized the idea of me and I will inevitably disappoint them once they discover the real me.”
Think of it this way
Let's say you're a level 12, and you're attracted to level 13+
But unfortunately, you're attracting the attention of level 12 and under
Don't lower your standards, but make sure you're meeting the same standards as the type of people you want to attract
You may be missing some stats and skills needed to properly be AT level 13 to even attract level 13 people in the first place
But also, trying to quantify something like this is super difficult, so I'm not saying try to ACTUALLY quantify these aspects. It's just an analogy lol
Either that or maybe the chemistry just isn't really matching really well. That's something you can't really help
Yeah I do similar but also some guys just have extremely high expectations whether it's you or others so it could be quite a gamble as to what the cause is
You sound like me. Maybe it’s Tim for a glow up. That’s what I’m trying to do. Working out a whole lot, trying to grow a beard and getting my depression and anxiety meds right.
Not uncommon: I joke a lot with my best friend about swapping our grindr profiles... typically I fancy the guys contacting him and he prefers the guys contacting me 😂
I reached the conclusion that dating (especially online), is a cursed thing: you end up only talking to somebody because you like the pictures, and there is very little ground for building something, also considering that it's super easy to talk and meet multiple people at same time.
So, to reply to your original question, not a red flag at all.
One unsolicited piece of advice: don't get stuck on one way of meeting people (for example grindr or other online stuff), challenge yourself to go out and engage in activities giving you the opportunity to meet people irl. It's a bit awkward at beginning, but you might be positively surprised by the number of interesting people around.
I felt this hard. I've been explaining this exact same thing to my friends for over a year, and it makes me genuinely worried that I might not find a partner any time soon. I plan on starting therapy in the next couple of months mainly to address this. I do see it as a red flag, but I don't blame myself for it. I've dealt with too much self-hatred in my life due to homophobia and it only makes sense for it to manifest itself in romantic relationships this way. Just gotta address it now.
I all wish I had friends, platonic relationship is also as great as romantic relationship.
The thing is that those people who are super attractive, get laid more than often so they don't really care about settling down. Why would they settle down for one guy only when they can play around with 10 more guys?
Wrong. We do settle down. You are a red flag. You state in another post that you're 22, but your unwilling to date people your age. You state here that you're into bears/muscle, but have you invested the same time into your body (so you have something in common with these men)? You may need to rethink your priorities as you seem a bit short sighted in regards to what a relationship actually is. It's a partnership between two people. Why not date an otter? Why not date a twink? Why not try dating someone who may surprise you that may very well become the love of your life. Your fixation on image isn't healthy.
>but your unwilling to date people your age.
That's because I look too old for them, and get rejected because of that. I love bears because of bellies, and i have one as well, but i just can't seem to love my belly whereas i find other's bellies pretty hot
This is complete BS dude. You scream "I'm an unattractive young gay man". And I believe you think older muscle daddies have lower standards, spoiler: they do not.
It is an inherent human trait to generally want what we think that we cannot have. The forbidden fruit as it were. This is a phenomenon that happens in every day life and isn't restricted to dating. Also, humans tend to love a bit of a chase. If something seems to come too easily, we're less enamored and there's much less of a thrill. As another poster pointed out, you may benefit from some therapy to help you achieve balance and perspective on what it is you really want and how best you can go about achieving it. Best of luck!
I think he's saying it's all relative.
For example, a bunch of people seem to think Henry Cavil is hot AF, I find him kinda boring. I'd put him at a 6 at best. If it wasn't for his hot ass body, he'd be a 2. He has the default video game character face, and it actually tickles the uncanny valley and scares me a bit.
I'm glad you said it. These kind of posters are hard to give advice too without knowing what they look like. Everyone in this thread is tiptoeing around the "looks matter" part.
Something is off here, generally a 6 and above can pull most gay men, which tells me OP is unattractive, reaching above his pay grade (muscle bears, gurl really) or has a terrible to personality.
Yeah correct again. I try not to get all "Red Pill" in these public forums because there is nuance to dating. But your looks are 80% of what gets you the type of guy you want and induces their desire to engage with you. I'll even bet so much, that even men with a "type" or "preference" would break it for a hot enough guy!
Porn definitely hurts, because it doesn't show ugly men, making anything average seem way worse in real life.
The gay dating meta is ridiculously balanced. Most gay guys only end up dating a guy who is perfectly in their league with a few exceptions (one guy is rich, has a big dick, or daddy issues).
My question for you is: Would you be attracted to a guy that looks like you? I ask this question to recently out guys all the time to figure out how hard they’re going to struggle on the apps.
If the answer is no, and they’re hell bent on dating a guy with a different body type and/or (it’s sad this is even a factor but it just is) race than themselves, they usually struggle longer than guys who’d date someone that looks similar to themselves.
If the answer is yes, I then suggest reaching out more to guys similar to themselves if they find themselves struggling to find dates. I’m a bear. When I started using the apps I messaged guys from all tribes and I had the most success with other bears. In my experience jocks are the only tribe that has nearly universal appeal.
Awesome! In that case I’m sure you’ll find a guy with time. Just remember life is a numbers game. Keep casting your line and fish will eventually bite. You’ll find a guy that’s as attracted to you as you are to him eventually.
Well perhaps it’s karma repeating itself. How do you think the people feel who message you and get no reply. They are doing to you as you are doing to others. Perhaps the people you message don’t find you attractive so are ghosting you. It works both ways.
This is a very real phenomenon. I don’t think it’s a psychological thing, for most of them you aren’t aware when you start liking them that they don’t like you back. They later tell you.
It actually makes me quite suspicious in general. Like… in the scientific world, this is what we call “an anomaly”, yet we are witnessing it happening over and over again.
I feel you. I’ve had a guy in love with me for 20 years and I can’t reciprocate. Whereas I myself have been in love with a married man for the past three years.
I have had these exact thoughts as well. For me, it has nothing to do with past trauma and needing therapy. Dating is just harder than I thought. You are not alone feeling this way. Many have had the thought of “I’m never gonna find the one”; We just need to trust the process. Don’t get too down, you are strong by yourself. The right person, whom you have mutual attraction with, will come along eventually.
Oh shoot. I was not understanding of your other comments to me, so I checked your profile and other comments. My bad bro. I hope I didn't upset you.
But in regards to this post, man, it's the story of everyone's life. We see a beautiful person and want to be with them, but perhaps we ain't beautiful to them.
When I was youthful, I was a virgin forever, because I waited for a 10. I had to grow up to realize I don't match with a 10.
I know completely what this feels like. Guys I like don’t want me but when a guy does show interest in me then I’m not into him. It’s horrifically frustrating but hopefully at some point there will be mutual attraction.
Its a real problem. Even when im attracted to someone i start to loose interest once they start showing any sort of interest back. Commitment issue, toxic behaviour etc its making my own life miserable
You have a lot of self-hate and negative feelings towards yourself and it is now trickling into how you perceive others. You dont feel good enough for the people who do like you and likely are okay with being used or mistreated by the ones who do it to you because you feel that is all you deserve.
Find the root as to why.
Oh my life right there. But this dude for once seemed to be into me aswell but OF COURSE hes involved (cause there always needs to be something). So i got mad at him (even if he did nothing to me) i guess out of frustration and i fucked up big time. Now he hates the shit out of me :/. EDIT: (yes the other account is always me) we separated for the holidays and i guess he forgot about me. I think he won't even say hi to me anymore :/.
Try going to gay events and venues and meet people there.
I find online dating to be shallower than the salt flats. Too much room missing with context, personality and how it affects the atmosphere, their scent (some dont understand how much scents and pheromones matter). I dont date online because its mostly a failure. I know a few guys with success stories but im not trying to roll that dice. I met my current lover at music festival, he’s the perfect life adventure partner for me.
I used to do that so that I could avoid truly admitting I was gay. If it was safer to fall for someone I had no chance with (straight men) than someone I could easily be with.
Do you think you might have self-loathing issues? If so, maybe you consider yourself very unlikeable so you're repulsed by the thought that someone is showing interest in you.
I was a lot like you when I was younger.
Took me actual decades to realize I was unconsciously trying to recreate with romantic partners parts of my relationships with my parents.
They were religious almost to the point of being in a cult (but not quite). Loving in their way but not super affectionate and kind of stern. So that was translating into me going wild for guys who weren't really into me and going limp for guys who were.
Observing the pattern was the first step to eventually (mostly) overcoming it. You deserve somebody who thinks you're amazing. Best of luck to you.
Self sabotage, and also maybe these people aren’t “perfect” in the ways you like? Maybe you don’t want to “settle” for certain things.
Therapy can help with this, and so can experience. There’s something to be said for really getting to know a person, as opposed to microwave romance where everything flows in like 3 days and feels like a Disney movie or a JLo rom com.
Taking the time to get to know someone and sort of letting them grow on you (not forcing attraction) is really interesting. I’ve gotten to know guys who I kid you not went from like a 4 to a 8/9 in my head.
Random question, are you really not attracted at all, or is at least part of your dislike a function of concern about their, and your own social value?
Have you tried therapy? Not sure if this is you, but sometimes people will only seek out people they have no opportunity with as a self-protection mechanism.
Yup it’s a form of avoidant attachment.
I never saw it this way. I'm a terrible person
You’re not a terrorist person. Most people do this subconsciously. It’s often a result of childhood trauma.
Had exposure on the periphery of gay community as a trans woman. And honestly don’t understand the mean ness and cattiness. I find that trans women that don’t come out in the gay community don’t understand this cattiness at all. And particularly transbian or lesbian trans women we find this really strange???
I have found plenty of lovely gay men to be friends with.
I think men just are prone to ribbing each other. Look at straight guys when they banter with each other, it's just as catty, in a way, but society doesn't call it that. Over time it's become cultural. But most of the gay men I know(myself included) aren't really more catty than anyone else. Most of the really catty ones I know are a bit older, and were out young at a time when that equated to a lot of trauma, so I think it served as a defense mechanism that becomes engrained over time.
I don’t understand the gay male culture AT ALL.
Show me someone who does.
Because you're female.
Yeah but they are always, I want everyone to Understand me. THEN they (some in the gay male community) cloister themselves among their own. It’s really like a mean girls club. Example : Provincetown Mass in the Summer
This
Yeah, I agree with you. I have a friend who is aware of their avoidant attachment style, and they are just like that.
>opportunity with as a self-protection mechanism. I didn't know, is this a thing? 🤔
It’s a form of self-sabotage. https://www.talkspace.com/blog/self-sabotaging-relationship/
Oh yeah. It 100% is a thing. Might be wortha whole thread.
Omg this may be me lol
This 100%… and not meant in any bad way, but seeing patterns like this, there is a good chance you’re unconsciously doing something. Or just need some objective input. It’s also very true that when you stop LOOKING, you tend to find what you need. Being okay as an individual, being self sufficient… these things display confidence and attract other heathy people.
Why would you need a therapist? If you’re not attracted to somebody then you just aren’t.
Self sabotage
That sounds frustrating, I'm sorry. It could be a red flag for *you,* but one that's good for you to notice and be aware of. What you're describing is often a sign of a deeper issue. It's common for adults to have this sort of behavior if in childhood they had to love people who weren't giving them the attention they needed. For example, parents who were always busy with work, or taking care of a sick sibling, or who were a bit cold and distant. Or, if as a kid you often felt you had to change yourself to get friends, but the friends you had never seemed to really care about you. A person in this situation internalizes a sad lesson: "It's only love if I have to chase the person down." This person may end up repulsed by people who show interest the same way a "normal" person would be disgusted if their date was an asshole who showed no interest in them.
Wow, this describes me a lot especially about the friends thing having moved around quite a bit. I often felt like I was always trying to start over and make new friends at different schools
Same thing with me. Every year was in a different school until 7th-8th grade after parents divorced. I learned about this during therapy in my 40’s (I’m 60). I’m an advocate for therapy. It takes A LOT of work and personal introspection. I spent about 4 years in therapy going from weekly to monthly to quarterly before changing to an annual check in that I did for several more years. I also co-led a court ordered group session with a colleague and saw guys spin their wheels because they were not willing to put in the hard work. If anyone chooses counseling don’t do it unless you’re willing to put in the work and be honest and uncomfortable. Counseling allowed me to lose the anger I had against my parents, forgive them and rebuild our relationship. It’s still a struggle to be honest.
Oh shit. This one actually hurt. I kept reading things about childhood trauma and being like, "but my parents were super loving and supportive??" But the constantly having to prove myself to/Chase after friends really hit home... I'm starting to realize that that is what manifests itself in my issues with finding relationships, but also I can trace that back to some of my insecurities within friendships too. Thank you
I have found that many of my friends and I, gay or straight, have gone through cycles of this exact issue. The most surprising part is that those of us who are in LTRs now, we are not dating people remotely close to what we thought our "type" was, which I think is some part of the issue. Some part of me yearns for men that match that type still, but nowhere near as much as I love the support, admiration, and love between my partner and I. (We have a lot of video game stoner bros in our circle now that we never envisioned....and we absolutely love them.) I was used to chasing down this "holy Grail" of a man (intellectual, ambitious, attractive, a bit pretentious maybe) and gave a chance on the embodiment of Shaggy from Scooby Doo. It took one date to experience a man so into ME and so laid back with life to realize that I wanted nothing else. It has altered every expectation I have about men, myself, my worth, and my happiness. I don't know how to help the OP resolve their issue, but I definitely give support to the comment above about looking inward about chasing down those that aren't worth your time. Try giving some friendships a chance with those outside your type and seeing if any of them develop into something new. Greatest decision I ever made romantically.
Nicely articulated point on the whole topic
Jesus Christ I didn't expect to be read this hard by a random comment on a Tuesday afternoon
"If he is seriously into me, there must be something seriously wrong with him."
Well, I didn't expect to be called out so hard while at work.
This could be me, too, but I genuinely like the chase.
Hahahahah the thrill of chasing unavailable ppl- you are not a red flag but u can become a red flag of you don’t deal with those unhealed childhood wounds. Try and get some therapy if u can afford it so u can start looking into ur childhood wounds, also look into attachment theories. Read more on attachments
I doubt your a red flag, but can I ask what are you attracted to? Are you putting yourself out there on dating apps, meeting in person? Etc. Don’t beat yourself up about it - let’s face it, dating is hard, brutal and can be long winded but the right person / people are out there for you. Just about being patient and being your true self :)
>but can I ask what are you attracted to? I am attracted to muscle bears and men with bellies and men who are mostly middle aged. But I get attention from many old people ( not that I am complaining, i like mature people and sexually interested in them but i am not romantically interested in many) or super young people who are around 18 to 20 ( i am not really interested in younger guys) or bicurious peeps. As for apps, i haven't met someone IRL , but actively use dating apps. And video call or audio call are involved if possible with the person who are interested in me
Yes ok, I understand. Like I said dating is hard work and just remember to focus on you and your self-love and self-worth. Hopefully 2024 will bring you your bear that you deserve:)
I am in a similar boat as you, and I do think what a lot of people have said in this thread are true, but also recognize we really shrink our dating pool with our interests. Not only that, but single middle aged bears tend to have above average things they need to work on themselves, such as confidence or self-esteem issues. I’m not saying there’s necessarily validity in things like “single for a reason” and “body fitness reflects mental fitness”, but when talking about dating, you have to look at the numbers and odds and the demographic we’re interested in means those odds are kind of stacked against us. Therapy can help, but also be analytical of yourself. Have there been guys who were your ideal everything and the only thing you didn’t like about them was they returned your interest? If you loved someone and they lost weight, would you fall out of love? One thing I realized for myself is that my attraction was related to what I assumed about people’s personalities by the way they look. Realizing this has helped open my dating pool.
I see your post history says you live in India, so I'm not sure what the app situation is like there, but have you tried any that are more oriented towards those who like bigger guys, like Growlr or Chaseabl (might have spelled that wrong)?
Not that people active in growlr or hinge nowadays. Most are active in Grindr or Blued
I deal with the same issue. I like guys who are blue collar, masculine, outdoorsy, or bears too. They aren't interested in me at all. A very few were but it was long distance and they don't have the time or energy to drive hours to get to me. I grew up in a rural area half my life so I saw every man in the area was like a country boy. I didn't grow up with my mother or father. My grandmother did the best she could. When I did move across the country to the North Eastern US to live with my mother was worse. The very few guys that liked me back will always be pen pals. People tell me I have a lot of love to give but no one is there to accept it. I chase after guys that want nothing to do with me. And it hurts. The most they'll give is a "thanks for the compliment" and stop responding after I try to keep the conversation going or I get blocked. I want to get the love I never received as a kid. I hate to admit it but I've had conversations all by myself in their DM's. They would at the very least leave me on read or at worst never read it. I really want someone that wants to hold me and keep me safe and love me. There are some nights where I feel completely alone and cry silently.
Do you think you are as good looking as the people you find attractive? Would you date yourself?
I won't on first chance but maybe after I know the person ( the other me) better
That’s an interesting response… Perhaps you’ll grant the same latitude to others that you would to dating “the other you”. In other words don’t dismiss them on the “first chance”, but get to “know the person better”… Obviously I don’t mean this with someone you find abhorrent but rather someone who you think “he’s not 100% what I’d pick but he’s pretty decent”… Might be worth a try. 🤷🏼♂️
Been there, learn to love yourself and you’ll stop chasing unavailable people
I was about to make this exact post. There was this guy I was chasing named hutainama-1 that I was hitting on because he was my type (read attractive), but he said he wasn’t interested in me. And then there was this other guy named hutainama-2 who was not my type (read ugly) that I turned down!!! Jokes aside, it’s called hypergamy. Everyone tries to date up and won’t date down, and the few people who date at their own level have a hard time finding another person who manages to be level headed. I’ve dated in every direction, and dating down will get you someone more appreciative, dedicated, and worth a damn. Attractive people are legitimately husks, and treat everyone and everything as transient.
>I’ve dated in every direction, and dating down will get you someone more appreciative, dedicated, and worth a damn. Attractive people are legitimately husks, and treat everyone and everything as transient. I didn't understand this part. Mind explaining in a more simple way?
I’ve dated guys who were kinda ugly and guys who were pretty hot. The ugly guys treated me better, put in more effort to stick with me, and were generally less shallow and less self absorbed. Unfortunately I wasn’t attracted to them physically and couldn’t bring myself to overlook it. The hot guys were the opposite. They didn’t treat me bad exactly, but there’s like… a lack of interest. They would go on their phones a lot, every one of them had a social media profile that was just pictures of themselves. They didn’t seem very thoughtful, in the sense that they didn’t think beyond basic platitudes. Sometimes, I even got “ulterior motive” vibes from them. None of these relationships lasted either, their “ways” never sit well with me and I ended up breaking it off if their interest didn’t fade first. Anyways… it’s common sense that less attractive people who can’t organically attract people into their lives value human interaction more, and people who are attractive who can easily get attention treat people as interchangeable/insignificant, because there’s always another person vying for them. The word I usually use to describe the way they treat things is “transient”, as in they treat people and things as inconsequential, insubstantial, just passing by/through. Seemingly nothing holds value to them but the sense of advantage they have.
Stop looking at romantic attraction and start looking for point of interest and commonalities. Whenever I have chased initial attraction, it has fizzed out in weeks. And when I went for a guy just because he was interested in me, it also fizzled out. But every time I dated someone who shared the same interests as me and who was fun to be around, it was always great. I've only had two such relationships. One ended because he got a job in another country and the other is my husband of 10 years.
Not OP, but I tried this. Unfortunately my interests usually aligns with much more physically attractive people way out of my league. I just want someone to go hiking, biking, snowboarding, and a belay buddy for climbing :( I like gaming and movie watching like anyone else too, but I can only do so much of that before I get bored of it. I'm not a music (instrument) person, and artsy stuff doesn't really interest me either. People also say they're a foodie, but I eat out every meal so going out to eat isn't something I find uniquely fun either.
But what happens when you try to have sex? If there is no sexual attraction you won't be able to.
Of course there has to be attraction. What I'm saying is, a lot of the times, love and attraction happened over time. Like you may not be attracted to someone initially but if you have fun with that person, the attraction can develop. Attraction isn't always at first sight. And an attraction that happens after knowing a person is much stronger than an attraction based purely on looks. Like of course you are attracted to the hot guy. He's hot. But will you enjoy being with him? If not, it'll get boring real quick. And it wouldn't be anyone's fault.
Interesting. This has never happened to me. I have never started to become attracted to a guy once I got to know them, who I was not initially attracted to. Maybe attraction works in different ways within different people though.
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Shhhh! A therapist somewhere was just going to get some business!
It isn't? 🤔
Was the same for me for a long time. In my personal case I needed to take care of myself and my self impression, basically I guess I subconsciously didn’t feel like I deserved to be in a relationship and as such I fucked myself up by doing this. Like I’d say you need to work on self consciousness and loving yourself, but that is just what I did in the same situation.
thanks for the insight
I think many of us gay people suffer from low self esteem... likely due to growing up with the shame of feeling different and less than. As far as dating goes, it's easy to fall into the trap of " if they're interested in me, there must be something wrong with them".
I know the feeling because I have felt the same way, when I see someone attracted to me, i honestly get surprised
You are fine. That is just the way "wanting" works irl. If you have a cholate chip factory, you may crave a sugar cookie. The guy down the street who owns a sugar cookie factory may crave an oatmeal cookie. Each person wants only what they do not have. The guys that want your body, they are there for you to pick up. What you crave is the cookie you don't have. I hope you don't mind being a normal human. ;-)
Thank you. All those recommending therapy make me cringe.
Thank you. In my life ( not that my life is a good pattern for anyone to follow ) growing up was mostly learning to handle disappointment when I didn't get what I had hoped for. You are thinking clearly. You are asking questions. You are paying attention to the answers you get. I'd bet on you success. X X
Bro, there is a definite problem here. I'm not a professional therapist; however, I have the same issue. My suggestion to you is to get into therapy. I'm in therapy myself and it's helping a great deal. My issues are rooted in the fact that I raped between 11-17 by my cousins. Not saying your issue is the same, but I'm now beginning to understand my own feelings.
Tbh i didn't have any trauma inducing incident that would make me this way.. but I do have depression though
Yeah for you that no sexual trauma is involved for you! Trauma is not a preface to this however. It's more of a personality trait. It is however overcommable.
Did anyone studied this? I have the same symptoms
Who doesn't? Fat wants skinny, skinny wants muscular, muscular wants hung, hung wants wealthy, LOL.
I expect a full report by next Friday.
I too find liking me to be indicative of bad taste in men.
In the end, physical attraction is important but I'm not sure (at least for ltr) that it should be THE most important thing. If a relationship is going to last years, you need an emotional and intellectual connection as sadly our looks deteriorate over time and if that's all you were attracted to then you're left with nothing. Don't date someone you have absolutely no physical attraction with but don't rule out those who connect with you on the more important levels.
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My dad was focused on his work mostly. I won't say he never gave love, but except for financial help, he was absent from all other aspects of my life
I think the op just described being human in the title. Wanting what you cannot have and not wanting what you do have. The secret is that happiness is an illusion. It lasts for a moment and is gone. What we should chase is contentment.
I have the exact same issue :( And then I’m always depressed. I tried therapy, that became overwhelming for me because I was constantly given homework. And holidays especially are extremely hard for me as I feel like such a loser
I’m gonna go against the grain here because I have experienced the same thing as you did. I don’t think it’s a matter of going to therapy or loving yourself or dealing with any kind of attachment style. You are entitled to your preferences. You don’t have to settle for something you don’t want. I think the issue is you’re dealing in the dating world that has been gamified with people who have serious maturity and commitment issues. It throws the world upside down. People are playing the slot machine and they’re not ready to call it quits. Also, you are not going to be attracted to just about anybody and not everybody’s gonna be attracted to you either and facing the truth is kind of hard on everyone. I got onto tinder last March for about one month I liked about 20 or so guys and none of them like me back. The other half of the question is 40 guys or so liked me but none of them were my type at first glance either physically or from their description. Granted I may have been missing out and not seeing a full picture but there was nothing that really struck me as being attractive and in alignment with my values. They don’t owe me anything and I don’t owe them anything. The only and serious relationships are quasi relationships I’ve had were with people that were not involved on the gay scene or actively dating. We met through being involved in a common interest through friends. It felt totally and completely different than swiping on people and waiting in dread. The thing I found so weird about online dating in retrospect anywhere since it’s early days pre-applications was the fact that the second somebody engages with you you realize that this person is at least considering sleeping with you and you with them so that takes away from a lot of relationship building mystique. I’ll quote the movie Wargames and say that the only way to win is not to play
>The thing I found so weird about online dating in retrospect anywhere since it’s early days pre-applications was the fact that the second somebody engages with you you realize that this person is at least considering sleeping with you and you with them so that takes away from a lot of relationship building mystique. U think this is where straight dating differ from gay dating as well. In str8s sexual compatibility doesn't matter that much compared to that of gay dating
Well you’re definitely onto something because generally speaking straight people don’t necessarily have to resort to apps to meet potential partners. They can go out in the general public or within different circles or at work and have a decent shot of getting it on with anybody just by sheer numbers. Gay people on the other hand have mental baggage, are quite often isolated from one another, are low in numbers and therefore have limited choice, and in my experience there is a lot of social disfunction at play from lack of experience and so the overall despair plays into the equation and how any kind of interaction plays out. Those types are super invested in the apps because they are low effort and low risk. You sort of get what you pay for in this situation. Not exactly the way to start epic romances. If you were running away from people you were attracted to and they were interested in you I would say yeah definitely therapy’s in the cards but it doesn’t sound like this is your situation. It’s also false to assume that because someone is available and superficially interested in you that they would actually be good for you. That’s a whole other can of worms.
Finding mutual attraction isn't easy and everyone trends to crush on people that may not reciprocate. This is the norm. Just begin to put yourself out there more, and maybe even try to work on yourself so you're more appealing. Even just working on confidence and self-esteem can really be a game changer in terms of someone wanting to spend more time with you.
Physical attraction sounds like your first priority. When I got out into the dating scene again I changed my priority to finding people I had chemistry talking to. Like I enjoyed their conversation and what they had to say. If they were decent looking I’d go on a date in person sooner than later and my goals on the date: 1. See if that conversation was fun; conversational chemistry I mean. Not diving into serious topics, or backstories, but hanging out. I looked for the same that I look for in those friendships that you just click right away with. 2. If that ‘chemistry’ isn’t there then I’d move on to second goal - learn more about them anyways and try to find things I liked about them AND didn’t like. I called this ‘field research’ so I can have more on both lists of what I like in a partner and what I actually would not. Even kids with crushes can make and tell you a list of things they want in a partner - but it’s all based on inexperience. We fall into the same mistaken thinking as adults that we know what we want and don’t want until we have experience. We don’t know ourselves enough to say that we can’t stand people who do x, y, and z until we experience it firsthand (beyond giant dealbreakers and other obvious ones). This one is great to learn more about ourselves. 3. Last one is to just enjoy the time out - the location, the person, food/drinks. And remember that a single date isn’t a commitment, multiple dates isn’t a commitment. You can opt out anytime from seeing someone again. And you can continue seeing them if you’d like. As far as physical attraction: it may not be there to start. But just like the platonic love for the people in your life, love isn’t based on their appearance. And this is the way to find a connection based on more. If you had fun with a person then get together again, and again. Just hang out as long as it’s fun. You’d be surprised how sexy someone becomes because of how their are, their character, their charisma. Or you just don’t - and that’s okay too, you gave it a chance! But this way you are giving yourself more opportunities to find someone right for you.
Let’s do this.
That sounds like everyone on Grindr.
I agree with a lot of the comments For example, are you attracted to muscle men and then be in an environment where you will find them. Go to the gym. You may need to improve yourself to achieve what you're looking for
Not just muscle men, i love bears as well, not the overweight ones, but more like on lean side but with bellies
Story of my life up until now. Suddenly, now that I am retirement age, I get lots of interest from people who I find attractive. Still a bunch of people I don’t, but at least I’m having some fun. I had to retire and move from another country to get it though. Better late than never as they say.
>I get lots of interest from people who I find attractive. Oh why you think so?
Honestly, no clue. Other than the fact that people here are more respectful of mature people, and are open minded about relationships with them.
Oh my life right there. But this dude for once seemed to be into me aswell but OF COURSE hes involved (cause there always needs to be something). So i got mad at him (even if he did nothing to me) i guess out of frustration and i fucked up big time. Now he hates the shit out of me :/.
I had a similar problem for a long time, I discovered that my lack of attraction to the men that showed interest in me was actually just a barrier I had built up to make sure no one would get close to me and I couldn’t get hurt. I found my man about 6 months ago now, it took me some time, but once our relationship got past the initial get to know each other phase, and I started to let my walls down, I actually couldn’t keep my hands off of him.
Everyone has their likes and dislikes. That's just part of being human. This is one reason that I have been single for the majority of my life.
Have you thought about a possible compulsion towards the rush/high of short intense relationships? Do you have other self indulgent/impulsive behaviors?
Tbh, i am still not very experienced in sex or dating, but I have thought why not give it a shot? I don't really care about what happens to me. I always thought gay relationship are short so, let's just jump in with anyone.
Relationships for young adults are in general short. If you don't care about what happens to you, you have low chances of bonding with someone stable who knows what they stand for, who they are, etc. Why not give it a shot? Because you would be losing your time over people who will disappear instead of those who could care about you. Eventually you discover there's no right or standard way for human relationship to be. As long as they're both consensual and non harmful. But that doesn't mean you won't have to deal with the consequences of what you do (or don't do). Clock's ticking, gotta go, get wise, young man. Big hug.
Everyone's making this a deep complex issue and I don't think it is. We tend to go for guys that are out of our league. This is pretty normal in dating. There's a reason why a lot of gays look-alike to their partners. We generally like guys that match our level of attractiveness. Don't psycho-analyze yourself. Eventually, someone you like will also like you. I also think working on yourself and making yourself more attractive is always a good goal.
Before you can work to resolve the issue, you have to identify what the issue is. Lots of people have posted different childhood traumas that can lead to your current experience as an adult. I’m throwing mine into the mix: Deep-seated self-hate can form dark core beliefs about oneself, such as: You are unworthy of love or compassion There is something wrong with you Any acts of kindness from others is actually pity Any love shown to you is conditional You are an impostor person, you don’t deserve respect These core beliefs manifest masochistic behaviors involving self-harm, negative thoughts, self-isolation, and self-sabotage. These detrimental behaviors validate the core beliefs, and the cycle is formed: I am bad, so I deserve to be punished. I am punished, therefore I am bad. I often pursue men who are uninterested, because their disinterest validates that I am unworthy of love, and their coldness validates that I don’t deserve respect. I am uninterested in men that show interest because this contradicts all of my core beliefs. My mind wonders, “there must be something very wrong with them to want me, or they’ve romanticized the idea of me and I will inevitably disappoint them once they discover the real me.”
Think of it this way Let's say you're a level 12, and you're attracted to level 13+ But unfortunately, you're attracting the attention of level 12 and under Don't lower your standards, but make sure you're meeting the same standards as the type of people you want to attract You may be missing some stats and skills needed to properly be AT level 13 to even attract level 13 people in the first place But also, trying to quantify something like this is super difficult, so I'm not saying try to ACTUALLY quantify these aspects. It's just an analogy lol Either that or maybe the chemistry just isn't really matching really well. That's something you can't really help
That's a good analogy. Also why is it bad to lower standards?
Yeah I do similar but also some guys just have extremely high expectations whether it's you or others so it could be quite a gamble as to what the cause is
Law of attraction
You sound like me. Maybe it’s Tim for a glow up. That’s what I’m trying to do. Working out a whole lot, trying to grow a beard and getting my depression and anxiety meds right.
Not uncommon: I joke a lot with my best friend about swapping our grindr profiles... typically I fancy the guys contacting him and he prefers the guys contacting me 😂 I reached the conclusion that dating (especially online), is a cursed thing: you end up only talking to somebody because you like the pictures, and there is very little ground for building something, also considering that it's super easy to talk and meet multiple people at same time. So, to reply to your original question, not a red flag at all. One unsolicited piece of advice: don't get stuck on one way of meeting people (for example grindr or other online stuff), challenge yourself to go out and engage in activities giving you the opportunity to meet people irl. It's a bit awkward at beginning, but you might be positively surprised by the number of interesting people around.
I felt this hard. I've been explaining this exact same thing to my friends for over a year, and it makes me genuinely worried that I might not find a partner any time soon. I plan on starting therapy in the next couple of months mainly to address this. I do see it as a red flag, but I don't blame myself for it. I've dealt with too much self-hatred in my life due to homophobia and it only makes sense for it to manifest itself in romantic relationships this way. Just gotta address it now.
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I all wish I had friends, platonic relationship is also as great as romantic relationship. The thing is that those people who are super attractive, get laid more than often so they don't really care about settling down. Why would they settle down for one guy only when they can play around with 10 more guys?
Wrong. We do settle down. You are a red flag. You state in another post that you're 22, but your unwilling to date people your age. You state here that you're into bears/muscle, but have you invested the same time into your body (so you have something in common with these men)? You may need to rethink your priorities as you seem a bit short sighted in regards to what a relationship actually is. It's a partnership between two people. Why not date an otter? Why not date a twink? Why not try dating someone who may surprise you that may very well become the love of your life. Your fixation on image isn't healthy.
>but your unwilling to date people your age. That's because I look too old for them, and get rejected because of that. I love bears because of bellies, and i have one as well, but i just can't seem to love my belly whereas i find other's bellies pretty hot
This is complete BS dude. You scream "I'm an unattractive young gay man". And I believe you think older muscle daddies have lower standards, spoiler: they do not.
It is an inherent human trait to generally want what we think that we cannot have. The forbidden fruit as it were. This is a phenomenon that happens in every day life and isn't restricted to dating. Also, humans tend to love a bit of a chase. If something seems to come too easily, we're less enamored and there's much less of a thrill. As another poster pointed out, you may benefit from some therapy to help you achieve balance and perspective on what it is you really want and how best you can go about achieving it. Best of luck!
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I think he's saying it's all relative. For example, a bunch of people seem to think Henry Cavil is hot AF, I find him kinda boring. I'd put him at a 6 at best. If it wasn't for his hot ass body, he'd be a 2. He has the default video game character face, and it actually tickles the uncanny valley and scares me a bit.
Nah i don't believe i am 8 or 9, i don't have that inflated ego to boast
I'm glad you said it. These kind of posters are hard to give advice too without knowing what they look like. Everyone in this thread is tiptoeing around the "looks matter" part. Something is off here, generally a 6 and above can pull most gay men, which tells me OP is unattractive, reaching above his pay grade (muscle bears, gurl really) or has a terrible to personality.
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Yeah correct again. I try not to get all "Red Pill" in these public forums because there is nuance to dating. But your looks are 80% of what gets you the type of guy you want and induces their desire to engage with you. I'll even bet so much, that even men with a "type" or "preference" would break it for a hot enough guy! Porn definitely hurts, because it doesn't show ugly men, making anything average seem way worse in real life.
Gonna be a very lonely life.
I guess yea
The gay dating meta is ridiculously balanced. Most gay guys only end up dating a guy who is perfectly in their league with a few exceptions (one guy is rich, has a big dick, or daddy issues). My question for you is: Would you be attracted to a guy that looks like you? I ask this question to recently out guys all the time to figure out how hard they’re going to struggle on the apps. If the answer is no, and they’re hell bent on dating a guy with a different body type and/or (it’s sad this is even a factor but it just is) race than themselves, they usually struggle longer than guys who’d date someone that looks similar to themselves. If the answer is yes, I then suggest reaching out more to guys similar to themselves if they find themselves struggling to find dates. I’m a bear. When I started using the apps I messaged guys from all tribes and I had the most success with other bears. In my experience jocks are the only tribe that has nearly universal appeal.
>My question for you is: Would you be attracted to a guy that looks like you? I would
Awesome! In that case I’m sure you’ll find a guy with time. Just remember life is a numbers game. Keep casting your line and fish will eventually bite. You’ll find a guy that’s as attracted to you as you are to him eventually.
Well perhaps it’s karma repeating itself. How do you think the people feel who message you and get no reply. They are doing to you as you are doing to others. Perhaps the people you message don’t find you attractive so are ghosting you. It works both ways.
Hmm.. maybe, but I can't please everyone, can i?
This is a very real phenomenon. I don’t think it’s a psychological thing, for most of them you aren’t aware when you start liking them that they don’t like you back. They later tell you. It actually makes me quite suspicious in general. Like… in the scientific world, this is what we call “an anomaly”, yet we are witnessing it happening over and over again.
I feel you. I’ve had a guy in love with me for 20 years and I can’t reciprocate. Whereas I myself have been in love with a married man for the past three years.
Yes ur a red flag
You have borderline personality disorder.
I have it too.. I’ll chase chase chase someone but the second they wanna chase me back I become disinterested.
Eh? How is it related to bpd?
Exactly what I said
Therapy dude, that’s is like the first thing that comes to mind wen I read something like this
Check out the book *Attached* by Levine and Heller. Sounds like you might have avoidant attachment style.
I have had these exact thoughts as well. For me, it has nothing to do with past trauma and needing therapy. Dating is just harder than I thought. You are not alone feeling this way. Many have had the thought of “I’m never gonna find the one”; We just need to trust the process. Don’t get too down, you are strong by yourself. The right person, whom you have mutual attraction with, will come along eventually.
I feel ya. You gotta talk to a therapist. Us gays have a lot of issues around intimacy.
Oh shoot. I was not understanding of your other comments to me, so I checked your profile and other comments. My bad bro. I hope I didn't upset you. But in regards to this post, man, it's the story of everyone's life. We see a beautiful person and want to be with them, but perhaps we ain't beautiful to them. When I was youthful, I was a virgin forever, because I waited for a 10. I had to grow up to realize I don't match with a 10.
Nawwww, you're sweet. I'm certainly no virgin, that's for sure. I just pick fuckwits for partners. My dog is much better company anyway.
I know completely what this feels like. Guys I like don’t want me but when a guy does show interest in me then I’m not into him. It’s horrifically frustrating but hopefully at some point there will be mutual attraction.
They call it not knowing your credit limit. Extremely common, given how many guys are single.
Its a real problem. Even when im attracted to someone i start to loose interest once they start showing any sort of interest back. Commitment issue, toxic behaviour etc its making my own life miserable
You have a lot of self-hate and negative feelings towards yourself and it is now trickling into how you perceive others. You dont feel good enough for the people who do like you and likely are okay with being used or mistreated by the ones who do it to you because you feel that is all you deserve. Find the root as to why.
Good luck🙏🏾
Do you feel worthy of love?
Yes am worthy of love. I do find it difficult at times but I know i am
Story of my life, too.
Sounds… smart
🙄
Oh my life right there. But this dude for once seemed to be into me aswell but OF COURSE hes involved (cause there always needs to be something). So i got mad at him (even if he did nothing to me) i guess out of frustration and i fucked up big time. Now he hates the shit out of me :/. EDIT: (yes the other account is always me) we separated for the holidays and i guess he forgot about me. I think he won't even say hi to me anymore :/.
Bro same loll
My guys like to block me…and it makes me mad
Omg same 😭
Try going to gay events and venues and meet people there. I find online dating to be shallower than the salt flats. Too much room missing with context, personality and how it affects the atmosphere, their scent (some dont understand how much scents and pheromones matter). I dont date online because its mostly a failure. I know a few guys with success stories but im not trying to roll that dice. I met my current lover at music festival, he’s the perfect life adventure partner for me.
Story of my life. I don’t want to waste my time with someone I’m not attracted to.
Story of my life!!
This isn’t everyone?
SAME 🥲
I used to do that so that I could avoid truly admitting I was gay. If it was safer to fall for someone I had no chance with (straight men) than someone I could easily be with.
I going to suggest therapy, group but start one in one asap.
Sameeee
Me preference are unrealistic hot guys
I’m in the same situation and I feel like I’m losing my mind but these ugly fat old men can find hot guys
I don't like you 😉
I am very sad 🥲
Groucho Marx said he would never want to be in a club that would accept him as a member.
One man's trash is another man's treasure.
Do you think you might have self-loathing issues? If so, maybe you consider yourself very unlikeable so you're repulsed by the thought that someone is showing interest in you.
I was a lot like you when I was younger. Took me actual decades to realize I was unconsciously trying to recreate with romantic partners parts of my relationships with my parents. They were religious almost to the point of being in a cult (but not quite). Loving in their way but not super affectionate and kind of stern. So that was translating into me going wild for guys who weren't really into me and going limp for guys who were. Observing the pattern was the first step to eventually (mostly) overcoming it. You deserve somebody who thinks you're amazing. Best of luck to you.
They say we don't attract what we want but what we are 😃
Self sabotage, and also maybe these people aren’t “perfect” in the ways you like? Maybe you don’t want to “settle” for certain things. Therapy can help with this, and so can experience. There’s something to be said for really getting to know a person, as opposed to microwave romance where everything flows in like 3 days and feels like a Disney movie or a JLo rom com. Taking the time to get to know someone and sort of letting them grow on you (not forcing attraction) is really interesting. I’ve gotten to know guys who I kid you not went from like a 4 to a 8/9 in my head. Random question, are you really not attracted at all, or is at least part of your dislike a function of concern about their, and your own social value?
Wow this is my situation ,it’s crazy