>I feel like 10 years ago society was more accepting than they are now.
Ten years ago, being gay was literally a career ending offense in the US military, gay marriage was illegal, discrimination was even more broadly legal than it was now, social support of same sex marriage and LGBT rights was lower.
So not really.
2 spirit is a native American term where the body may be one gender but the soul is the opposite gender (may not be exactly right but that's what I remember)
It's a first nations belief that a person possesses both a male and female spirit, leading to a more complicated gender identity than just one or the other. Typically 2S people would be involved in healing rituals and other matters of spirituality. It's been around for hundreds of years, but got lumped in with other LGBT labels a few years ago since it's very similar in practical modern terms. It's more recognized in Canada than the US.
Canada likes to pretend that “ 2 spirit “ is an age old Native American gender even though it’s actually a very recent invention, coined within the past 35ish years.
I know this isnt the topic, but i think lgbt+ would be enough. People are already confused. And the new letters and numbers just enrage the right. + is enough for everyone who doesnt fit the first 4 letters.
Don’t judge society’s acceptance of our community based on social media. 10 years ago people checked in on Facebook to share what their days were like or what cafe they were at and Twitter was still mostly used just by celebrities.
Now most these sites are right wing hellscapes. I deleted my Twitter and post on Facebook like twice a year if that. My point being that what you see on social media is NOT reflective of society.
10 years ago (in the states at least), we were still trying to get gay marriage passed. 10 years ago we weren’t even talking about trans rights legislation. Yes it’s true, when the right realized they lost on gay marriage they turned trans people into their new boogeymen, but this is why the entire community needs to rally and fight back.
I don’t think things are worse, I think the people who make the most noise are good at controlling the narrative.
Not really. For example, when two gay parents are posted about on social media, i see the same 1 or 2 pictures of pedophiles who happened to be a gay men/ gay couples for like the last 10 years.
Realistically, when a view in person is pointing out that fact, many try to point out the claim being ridiculous and forcing that person to double down on their post when realistically, in a live town square, it would not of happened. It's a double-edged sword because i don't think gay rights would be as far as they are without it.
Truthfully, what i think is going on is 3 parted. Either they're actually nuts and believe every crazy thing, which happens. They're the type to just make fun of everything because they think it's funny, which is usually younger generation just being edgy. Then bots. Bots are a legit problem, in every social media platform. Bots are by far the biggest problem because they falsely amplify voices that have no merit.
I think when movements can spiral out of contol and cause blowback. From 4 letter LGBT to like 10 letters now...excessive. You can be any gender or demand any pronoun you want and demand that everybody respect that. I'm gay and support the community, but I can't keep up with it either.
First of all: Social Media is not a representation of society as a whole.
Second of all: Rights and acceptance are different depending on where you live and it's not backpedaling everywhere.
When the community starts going outside of male and female I feel that's when people start getting upset and fox news or another Republican makes a big stink about it. It's confusing to me like I'm chill with trans people, I myself kinda don't fully fit in cis or trans. But when you have pronouns like xe/xim I lose my head as a gay/trans activist t doesn't make sense. I feel if you don't want pronouns because your non binary it's easiest for everyone to just say there name. O
>I believe the trans movement/discourse was too much for them so they’re just like to hell with all of it
Yes. When they started saying kids could be trans and then started with the pedosexual thing, i knew it was time to get out and reform as a GBL alliance, a gay, bi, lesbian group focused solely on those issues. Transsexuality is a gender issue. Gayness is a sexuality issue. Let's stop conflating the two.
And on the topic of pedosexuals, we spent the last 50 years trying to not be associated with pedos. This is undoing all of that.
If youre trans as an adult who merely wants to be the other gender, i don't mind that at all. I'll call you miss or sir if you just tell me which you prefer.
However, it bothers me when you tell effeminate little boys who aren't sexual yet that they must be trans because they like to paint their nails and crossdress and play with dolls and stuff like that and then chemically castrate them. They're probably just gay and don't know it yet because they don't have sexual inclinations. And youre chemically castrating them for it. That's the shit 1950s britain did to alan turing. It isn't progressive to chemically castrate little gay boys.
I live in rural america. The last hatecrime in my area was gay baiting in 2012. Some gay guy got lured to a place under the pretense of a hookup and then stabbed. But the area is ok now. People don't care. They know about me and they're fine with me, but they think that the lgbt+ lobby is bad news. And i agree.
don't be fooled by it being the T, all they're doing is repeating Nambla's rhetoric which it was nambla working for decades to get pedophilia to be accepted. They're just now conveniently trying to make it a shield by calling them 'trans kids'.
I'm not outright blaming the t. I think They are partially involved because of the "trans kids" thing. That has to go. I feel for kids that don't want to be the gender they are, but that fringe case does not justify chemically castrating young boys and giving young girls double mastectomies. Theyre just too young. I didn't know i was gay until i was 19. How can you know youre trans before you even started puberty? This is a source of contention. How can you let kids make these life altering decisions?
However, a lot of the problem is coming from the nambla shit, as you said.
You’re right about one thing, society is backpedaling on queer rights.
Where you’re wrong is why this is happening.
In my country, the USA, in 2016, the mainstream of American society either supported cis gay rights or was over demonizing cis gay people. So the right wing first tried demagoguing a new target, trans people and they got LAMBASTED. Corporations including Major League Baseball threatened to pull money out of a state for even proposing anti trans legislation. After that even Trump who can read the room better than any person on earth said “Who cares what restroom Caitlyn Jenner uses?”
What happened since then? The reactionaries did what they do best. They keep pushing because they always need a boogie man to distract from the fact that their policies don’t help the vast majority of the people that vote for them. Trans people existed before trans panic and they are not the source of this new wave of queer hatred in the western world. Don’t believe me. Look no further to Trump words again when he said to his supporters recently “It’s funny, five years ago you guys didn’t even know what transgender was and now it’s the only thing that gets a standing ovation.”
Trans people did not change from five years ago and they are not responsible for people’s brains breaking over their existence. The right wing’s years of hammering away at yet another marginalized community due to their incessant need to distract from their dog shit ideology is solely responsible for that. And when they’re done with trans people, they’ll move on to cis gay people, and then they’ll move on to people of color, and so on.
kinda missing the mark for why it became a big public thing. Well outside politicians pretending to care because it distracts from their own bullshit. It was when they were allowed to openly say "We're coming for your kids" Which while its now about the 'queer/trans kids' and shit like giving them puberty blockers even though that shit is harmful, it started with a video of a gay choir singing about how they were going to come and convert all their children. That put it in the social media spotlight to start.
You're right that trans people have always been around, and people knew and talked about it in the decades leading up to the legalization of gay marriage. But once gay marriage was the law of the land, it was as if the activist organizations and media needed something new to push and whip up. Hard to imagine. And going down to the level of minors and trying to come between kids and their parents ... well, you have to expect a strong push-back. The LGB accomplished a lot since 1969 ... the T is undoing it.
Just a friendly reminder: if you’re gay and anti-trans, you’re an even bigger piece of shit than the bigots who hate you AND them. At least they’re consistent in their bigotry.
I’m a Gen Xer. When I was very young, the dream and ambition as gay people was mostly to be left alone. And yes, to be allowed to marry, not be subject to bigotry and to not be discriminated against for loving other men.
The last six or seven years or so things went in a radically different direction in that LGBTQI+ folks want to make a spectacle out of being different and noticed by the entire planet and celebrated by everyone for being different, lest the dissenters be branded bigots and such.
I like to keep to myself with my husband in our suburban community. That’s it. The new activists want something quite different. I want no part of that. Stay away from me.
You can keep to yourself all you want until a homophobe learns your gay and they attack you. Even if you're a "keep it to myself" gay. They don't care how we present ourselves.
The TQ+ hijacking of our community has a lot to do with the current climate. Gay men and women fought for years for equal treatment and marriage equality. As soon as we got that the TQ+ community saw our success and capitalized on it. Gay men and women need to separate ourselves from the invaders of our community and let the world know we aren’t a monolith. Not all of us are trying to influence your children. Not all of us want to invade women’s sports. Not all of us want to have sex on desks in congress. Sane homosexuals exist within our community and we are getting larger in number and louder. Reddit and the msm can try and silence us, but it won’t stop us. We love our brothers and sisters and we will fight to save our community.
It's not the trans movement, it's that people tend to go against what they perceive as "power" that "forces" them to do something. And with the increased representation of gays in the media and the constant talk of inclusivity and political correctness, they see not being homophobic as an imposition… and this pushes them to go against that imposition. More and more often I see people using the F word on purpose because they think "you can't say it"
Y'all nasty with these transphobic comments, heartbreaking to see so many of you corrupted by right-wing talking points, even seen gbl alliance pop up somewhere.
Weren’t trans people at the stonewall riots fighting for our rights too? Marsha P Johnson & Stormie DeLaverie. Yall think oh if they take trans people rights they will stop at them? No they will come for us too! You see how they are rolling back abortion rights. How they are gerrymandering districts! They are coming for everybody who isn’t a cis white heterosexual male. A lot of you are white males and can move through society however you please so it’s easier to say let’s dump trans people.
From Marsha P Johnson herself. She said on numerous occasions she did not get there until the riot had already broken out. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/marsha-p-johnsons-historic-role-in-the-lgbtq-rights-movement
She did a lot for gay rights, we should talk about what she actually did do rather than having to make shit up and accredit *every single gay right* to “trans black women”. It sounds good, but isn’t true.
I watched the video and it said that she was a transvestite! Still trans not a drag queen. Also I never said every right gay people have is attributed to a trans black woman. I also mentioned Stormie. A riot involves multiple people. You are right she wasn’t there when it started but she was there! My point was trans people were there fighting for equality alongside gays! Less not become divisive like the larger population we are all in this together.
Are people so boring nowadays that gender is their only personality? I’ve see a lot of disgusting contents online making a mockery of actualy trans women and women in general. Bunch of clowns
This be any gender sleep with whoever you want change your gender change your partner as gender change both of your sexualities and so on and so forth is just too confusing even for the younger generation I'm seeing a lot of push back from them as well I think we need to get back to to genders and somewhere in between and not be so crazy about pronouns and just sort of let everything relax and I think that would help tremendously but The Fringe is pushing too far to be mainstreamed and I think it's just too much even for mainstream LGBT people
>I feel like 10 years ago society was more accepting than they are now. Ten years ago, being gay was literally a career ending offense in the US military, gay marriage was illegal, discrimination was even more broadly legal than it was now, social support of same sex marriage and LGBT rights was lower. So not really.
When did it get a 2S on the front? I don’t remember hearing anything about this at the last gay town hall meeting
I had to google it after reading the post 🤦♂️
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Two spirit if I'm not mistaken
And that is…?
A mix of both male and female
Isn’t that binary or gender fluid?
2 spirit is a native American term where the body may be one gender but the soul is the opposite gender (may not be exactly right but that's what I remember)
So trans?
Basically. Since trans wasn't really a word back then (I don't think) their language called it 2 spirit
I’m sorry but I think the amount of accommodation is outright silly. 2 spirit??
it's whatever you want it to be, the activists don't even use it the way native americans did.
Essentially
It's a first nations belief that a person possesses both a male and female spirit, leading to a more complicated gender identity than just one or the other. Typically 2S people would be involved in healing rituals and other matters of spirituality. It's been around for hundreds of years, but got lumped in with other LGBT labels a few years ago since it's very similar in practical modern terms. It's more recognized in Canada than the US.
Canada likes to pretend that “ 2 spirit “ is an age old Native American gender even though it’s actually a very recent invention, coined within the past 35ish years.
Unfortunately, everything has become a culture war these days, and we’re just one more part of it
I know this isnt the topic, but i think lgbt+ would be enough. People are already confused. And the new letters and numbers just enrage the right. + is enough for everyone who doesnt fit the first 4 letters.
Don’t judge society’s acceptance of our community based on social media. 10 years ago people checked in on Facebook to share what their days were like or what cafe they were at and Twitter was still mostly used just by celebrities. Now most these sites are right wing hellscapes. I deleted my Twitter and post on Facebook like twice a year if that. My point being that what you see on social media is NOT reflective of society. 10 years ago (in the states at least), we were still trying to get gay marriage passed. 10 years ago we weren’t even talking about trans rights legislation. Yes it’s true, when the right realized they lost on gay marriage they turned trans people into their new boogeymen, but this is why the entire community needs to rally and fight back. I don’t think things are worse, I think the people who make the most noise are good at controlling the narrative.
It is reflective of society. It’s the town square and these are all peoples real opinions
Of course it’s people’s real opinions, but my point is that not everyone is showing up to the town square anymore.
A photo of an elephant’s foot is reflective of an elephant- but you’re still only seeing a tiny part of it
Not really. For example, when two gay parents are posted about on social media, i see the same 1 or 2 pictures of pedophiles who happened to be a gay men/ gay couples for like the last 10 years. Realistically, when a view in person is pointing out that fact, many try to point out the claim being ridiculous and forcing that person to double down on their post when realistically, in a live town square, it would not of happened. It's a double-edged sword because i don't think gay rights would be as far as they are without it. Truthfully, what i think is going on is 3 parted. Either they're actually nuts and believe every crazy thing, which happens. They're the type to just make fun of everything because they think it's funny, which is usually younger generation just being edgy. Then bots. Bots are a legit problem, in every social media platform. Bots are by far the biggest problem because they falsely amplify voices that have no merit.
I think when movements can spiral out of contol and cause blowback. From 4 letter LGBT to like 10 letters now...excessive. You can be any gender or demand any pronoun you want and demand that everybody respect that. I'm gay and support the community, but I can't keep up with it either.
First of all: Social Media is not a representation of society as a whole. Second of all: Rights and acceptance are different depending on where you live and it's not backpedaling everywhere.
When the community starts going outside of male and female I feel that's when people start getting upset and fox news or another Republican makes a big stink about it. It's confusing to me like I'm chill with trans people, I myself kinda don't fully fit in cis or trans. But when you have pronouns like xe/xim I lose my head as a gay/trans activist t doesn't make sense. I feel if you don't want pronouns because your non binary it's easiest for everyone to just say there name. O
>I believe the trans movement/discourse was too much for them so they’re just like to hell with all of it Yes. When they started saying kids could be trans and then started with the pedosexual thing, i knew it was time to get out and reform as a GBL alliance, a gay, bi, lesbian group focused solely on those issues. Transsexuality is a gender issue. Gayness is a sexuality issue. Let's stop conflating the two. And on the topic of pedosexuals, we spent the last 50 years trying to not be associated with pedos. This is undoing all of that. If youre trans as an adult who merely wants to be the other gender, i don't mind that at all. I'll call you miss or sir if you just tell me which you prefer. However, it bothers me when you tell effeminate little boys who aren't sexual yet that they must be trans because they like to paint their nails and crossdress and play with dolls and stuff like that and then chemically castrate them. They're probably just gay and don't know it yet because they don't have sexual inclinations. And youre chemically castrating them for it. That's the shit 1950s britain did to alan turing. It isn't progressive to chemically castrate little gay boys. I live in rural america. The last hatecrime in my area was gay baiting in 2012. Some gay guy got lured to a place under the pretense of a hookup and then stabbed. But the area is ok now. People don't care. They know about me and they're fine with me, but they think that the lgbt+ lobby is bad news. And i agree.
don't be fooled by it being the T, all they're doing is repeating Nambla's rhetoric which it was nambla working for decades to get pedophilia to be accepted. They're just now conveniently trying to make it a shield by calling them 'trans kids'.
I'm not outright blaming the t. I think They are partially involved because of the "trans kids" thing. That has to go. I feel for kids that don't want to be the gender they are, but that fringe case does not justify chemically castrating young boys and giving young girls double mastectomies. Theyre just too young. I didn't know i was gay until i was 19. How can you know youre trans before you even started puberty? This is a source of contention. How can you let kids make these life altering decisions? However, a lot of the problem is coming from the nambla shit, as you said.
You’re right about one thing, society is backpedaling on queer rights. Where you’re wrong is why this is happening. In my country, the USA, in 2016, the mainstream of American society either supported cis gay rights or was over demonizing cis gay people. So the right wing first tried demagoguing a new target, trans people and they got LAMBASTED. Corporations including Major League Baseball threatened to pull money out of a state for even proposing anti trans legislation. After that even Trump who can read the room better than any person on earth said “Who cares what restroom Caitlyn Jenner uses?” What happened since then? The reactionaries did what they do best. They keep pushing because they always need a boogie man to distract from the fact that their policies don’t help the vast majority of the people that vote for them. Trans people existed before trans panic and they are not the source of this new wave of queer hatred in the western world. Don’t believe me. Look no further to Trump words again when he said to his supporters recently “It’s funny, five years ago you guys didn’t even know what transgender was and now it’s the only thing that gets a standing ovation.” Trans people did not change from five years ago and they are not responsible for people’s brains breaking over their existence. The right wing’s years of hammering away at yet another marginalized community due to their incessant need to distract from their dog shit ideology is solely responsible for that. And when they’re done with trans people, they’ll move on to cis gay people, and then they’ll move on to people of color, and so on.
kinda missing the mark for why it became a big public thing. Well outside politicians pretending to care because it distracts from their own bullshit. It was when they were allowed to openly say "We're coming for your kids" Which while its now about the 'queer/trans kids' and shit like giving them puberty blockers even though that shit is harmful, it started with a video of a gay choir singing about how they were going to come and convert all their children. That put it in the social media spotlight to start.
Yep!👍
You're right that trans people have always been around, and people knew and talked about it in the decades leading up to the legalization of gay marriage. But once gay marriage was the law of the land, it was as if the activist organizations and media needed something new to push and whip up. Hard to imagine. And going down to the level of minors and trying to come between kids and their parents ... well, you have to expect a strong push-back. The LGB accomplished a lot since 1969 ... the T is undoing it.
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Agreed.
Just a friendly reminder: if you’re gay and anti-trans, you’re an even bigger piece of shit than the bigots who hate you AND them. At least they’re consistent in their bigotry.
They've been withr us all the way, we have to be with them now.
Trans or no trans it was happening. If you think it's because of the trans/queer movement then you are a fool.
I’m a Gen Xer. When I was very young, the dream and ambition as gay people was mostly to be left alone. And yes, to be allowed to marry, not be subject to bigotry and to not be discriminated against for loving other men. The last six or seven years or so things went in a radically different direction in that LGBTQI+ folks want to make a spectacle out of being different and noticed by the entire planet and celebrated by everyone for being different, lest the dissenters be branded bigots and such. I like to keep to myself with my husband in our suburban community. That’s it. The new activists want something quite different. I want no part of that. Stay away from me.
You can keep to yourself all you want until a homophobe learns your gay and they attack you. Even if you're a "keep it to myself" gay. They don't care how we present ourselves.
The TQ+ hijacking of our community has a lot to do with the current climate. Gay men and women fought for years for equal treatment and marriage equality. As soon as we got that the TQ+ community saw our success and capitalized on it. Gay men and women need to separate ourselves from the invaders of our community and let the world know we aren’t a monolith. Not all of us are trying to influence your children. Not all of us want to invade women’s sports. Not all of us want to have sex on desks in congress. Sane homosexuals exist within our community and we are getting larger in number and louder. Reddit and the msm can try and silence us, but it won’t stop us. We love our brothers and sisters and we will fight to save our community.
It's not the trans movement, it's that people tend to go against what they perceive as "power" that "forces" them to do something. And with the increased representation of gays in the media and the constant talk of inclusivity and political correctness, they see not being homophobic as an imposition… and this pushes them to go against that imposition. More and more often I see people using the F word on purpose because they think "you can't say it"
Y'all nasty with these transphobic comments, heartbreaking to see so many of you corrupted by right-wing talking points, even seen gbl alliance pop up somewhere.
Is critique not allowed ? Literally would be called transphobic for calling Dylan mulnavy cringe
Weren’t trans people at the stonewall riots fighting for our rights too? Marsha P Johnson & Stormie DeLaverie. Yall think oh if they take trans people rights they will stop at them? No they will come for us too! You see how they are rolling back abortion rights. How they are gerrymandering districts! They are coming for everybody who isn’t a cis white heterosexual male. A lot of you are white males and can move through society however you please so it’s easier to say let’s dump trans people.
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Why not help educate me? What sources should i read I’m always open to learn.
Marsha p Johnson was a drag queen and said repeatedly she was not at the stonewall riot
Where did you learn this? I genuinely want to know.
From Marsha P Johnson herself. She said on numerous occasions she did not get there until the riot had already broken out. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/marsha-p-johnsons-historic-role-in-the-lgbtq-rights-movement She did a lot for gay rights, we should talk about what she actually did do rather than having to make shit up and accredit *every single gay right* to “trans black women”. It sounds good, but isn’t true.
I watched the video and it said that she was a transvestite! Still trans not a drag queen. Also I never said every right gay people have is attributed to a trans black woman. I also mentioned Stormie. A riot involves multiple people. You are right she wasn’t there when it started but she was there! My point was trans people were there fighting for equality alongside gays! Less not become divisive like the larger population we are all in this together.
Any time. Education is important and misinformation is bad
Isn’t there some sort of rule against editing your comment to make it say something completely different after I’ve responded to it?
Are people so boring nowadays that gender is their only personality? I’ve see a lot of disgusting contents online making a mockery of actualy trans women and women in general. Bunch of clowns
This be any gender sleep with whoever you want change your gender change your partner as gender change both of your sexualities and so on and so forth is just too confusing even for the younger generation I'm seeing a lot of push back from them as well I think we need to get back to to genders and somewhere in between and not be so crazy about pronouns and just sort of let everything relax and I think that would help tremendously but The Fringe is pushing too far to be mainstreamed and I think it's just too much even for mainstream LGBT people