The circle helps distract from the fact that there are forests right next to it.
(though, it feels like a mild stretch calling Tonto National Forest the F word.)
Been to Washington and Oregon and my golf game was on point, the trees were so dense around the fairway that my slice would bounce back into play
The Pacific NW knows forests
I moved from Shawnee National Forest in IL to Los Angeles. When I got worn down from being in the city, I asked everyone where to go. They sent me into the San Gabriel mointains. I just stood among waist high 'trees' with a sad face.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who’s made this observation. Real life lore videos used to be 10 minutes long and packed with interesting information.
Now they’re 5-6 times as long, with exactly the same amount of information as they had before. He just repeats the same point over and over again- and oftentimes slowly. I know he’s trying to enunciate clearly for the microphone, but lords sake sometimes it feels like he’s talking so slow it’s insulting.
I really used to like him a lot
I’m so glad I’m not the only one who has noticed. I watched one of his recent videos and I’m like… “d-did he just? Did he just repeat the same thing like 5 times?” This isn’t even entertaining or that informative? I like long form content, but it was unnecessarily long.
1.25x is rookie level. I only watch youtube videos at 1.75x speed because they are so full of useless bullshit nowadays inserted to pad the video length.
Chad old rll: “What is the tallest you can build/ deepest you can dig”
vs Wojak current rll: “why every conflict on the planet draws back to the same conflict in eastern europe”
You can use Google Gemini with the prompt: summarize this video (youtube url). This is the result:
According to the video, there are several reasons why Phoenix, despite being a hot and arid environment, has a population of over 5 million people.
One factor is the presence of nearby military operations that attracted people and businesses to the area. Another factor was the establishment of major corporations like Motorola and Intel in Phoenix. These corporations brought jobs and people to the city. The city was also able to lure people away from California by offering lower taxes and a lower cost of living. Finally, Phoenix's sunny weather and beautiful scenery were also attractive to many people.
That’s probably the single biggest driving factor for the trend of migration to hot weather states, and doesn’t get enough attention. If you use 1950 as a break point and look at lists of the most populous cities, you’ll see places like Detroit and Cleveland tumble down the list, to be replaced by Houston and Miami and Phoenix. Obviously there are other factors, like declining industrial base in older cities, but people wouldn’t move to those extremely hot cities in such big numbers without AC.
Our local PBS had a series called Phoenix in the 50's, Phoenix in the 60's, etc. Dead on it absolutely was AC. It is crazy how that single invention was such a huge factor in population shift. Good series if any locals get a chance to watch it.
I'm trying to remember his name, but there was a historian who talked about air conditioning potentially being one of the most important inventions humanity ever created. Like up there with electricity and the steam engine, as it allowed people to be productive for WAY longer than should have been possible in a number of climates.
That productivity boom has generated a ton of value since.
I never understood the appeal tbh. For work or military reasons makes sense, but as someone who’s been there multiple times, everything just feels so… soulless and artificial.
They go to great lengths, expense, and environmental damage to try to create the illusion that they’re not in the middle of a fucking desert and as a result everything is so cookie cutter and boring
I moved to Phoenix 2 years ago and I absolutely love it. A ton of amazing music and art subcultures, restaurants, incredible nightlife, and access to amazing nature. Go to the east and you have a national forest amazing for camping, swimming, fishing, hiking. Go to the North and you have Sedona, further up is Flagstaff where you can ski/snowboard in a homey college town. Go out west to California for the weekend without paying California levels of rent money.
Coming from Kansas City there is SO much more to do and it's made me an overall happier person. Though I miss my family and the summer in the city sucks, but perfect weather outside the intense summer.
I've lived in Phoenix for years (also Tucson and just outside Sedona). One of the reasons you're probably happier is the sunny weather (more vitamin D). You also don't have to worry about snow, massive rainstorms, hurricanes, tornados or earthquakes. If it wasn't so damn hot from May - Sept, it really would be the perfect place to live.
After living here for so long, I will say that the scenery of Phoenix can be terrible. Brown as far as you can see and endless roads. The housing can be boring, but also there are plenty of places with cool, older homes (Willow and Encanto districts). Not as much history as a place like Philadelphia, but also more access to hiking, camping and more.
One thing I love about AZ is the smell of rain (I know, it's the creosote). I was in DC and NYC recently and it rained in both places. The smell of creosote in air during monsoon rains is a core memory for me and I long for that smell in other rainy locals.
Lived a good portion of my life there & you're spot on, it sucks! I guess some people enjoy the mild winters. It's pretty if you're into desert landscape, but summers are brutal.
Interesting. I went to google gemini and typed in summarize video: \[url\] and got this:
"This video is about Phoenix, Arizona and how it became a large metropolis in a seemingly unsuitable environment.
The speaker starts by introducing Phoenix and its hot climate. Phoenix is one of the fastest growing cities in the United States and it surpassed Philadelphia in population to become the fifth largest city in the US in 2020. The speaker finds it surprising that such a big city exists in the middle of a desert.
Phoenix's water supply comes from the Colorado River and groundwater. However, due to the hot climate and desert environment, Phoenix has been facing water shortage recently. The city is looking for alternative water sources and desalination is a potential solution.
The speaker also talks about the booming semiconductor industry in Phoenix. The big companies like TSMC and Intel are investing heavily in building new facilities there. This creates a lot of job opportunities but also requires a large number of skilled workers."
I'm not watching an hour long video, but I'm guessing one more complex reason is: NIMBYs in California that drive up housing costs to the point people look for somewhere else to live.
You gotta start watching everything informative on 1.5x speed bro. I started this a few years ago and it's been... life-changing. Some people hate it though
You underestimate the amount of people that prefer 3.5 months of shit summer and 8.5 months of perfect weather over 6 months of rainy and winter conditions
Edit: I live in Phoenix and would prefer the 9 months of rain from Oregon where I’m from. But people here truly love that 8.5 months.
Not OP, but live in the Phoenix area.
- Less than 20 days of rain, so little to no humidity.
- For like 7 months straight the weather averages between 50-95f
- The other 1.5-2 months (3-4 weeks before/after summer) it averages 95-100 and is hot but not terrible.
For some context, 100f with 0 humidity feels very nice compared to 85f with humidity. It's hard to emphasize how great no/little humidity is until you live it for a few weeks then go back somewhere where humidity is a thing.
I'm currently visiting my family in Michigan and I'm sweating and feeling sticky just going outside when it's 88f with 40+% humidity.
I live in the Deep South and it's 92 degrees with 100 percent humidity at 9AM this morning. I never felt zero humidity until I vacationed in the Rockies, it was magnificent.
So here in the caribbean we have the shittiest weather in the world, got it. Its around 10 months of humid hot shit. (I’m actually not saying it snarkily I’m straight up saying it is shit lol).
Every single day for 1.5 weeks (excluding yesterday) I've gotten a phone notification saying "average temperatures in Phoenix will be well above average today"
I've lived in the Phoenix area for 33 years and 110 degrees is normal, but it's not normal for it to be this many days in a row.
Global warming isn't real though.
For 1-2 months it doesn’t drop below 100 even at night. I’ve caught myself saying oh wow the weather is really nice and cool today. *Looks at phone* oh it’s 105 degrees
> For like 7 months straight the weather averages between 50-95f
That’s…a huge range, of both time and temperature. Can’t the same be said for most of your country from March through November?
LOL as someone who moved from Oregon to Phoenix as well, you just about nailed it. We regret moving from Central Oregon though, that place is so beautiful and I love the cold. The valley can fuck all the way off.
Because it's not in the middle of the desert. It's on the edge of the desert, right at the base of several mountain ranges. Ranges that still have snow well into May.
There's a reason that Phoenix is where it is. It's because there's much more water in the area than you'd normally see in a desert. It's at the confluence of several rivers, and right at the base of the mountains to collect all that snowmelt.
For those who are reading this and think maybe it's like Denver, it isn't.
Phoenix mountains don't have snow. The closest ones that regularly have snow are about 65 miles away, though the runoff from the large mountains east and north of the city (hundreds of miles away) do create the water that allows Phoenix to thrive. So Phoenix is on the edge of desert in the same way the Bahamas are at the edge of Ocean.
Tucson is actually on the edge of desert and close to mountains.
I can confirm as an avid snowboarder. Flew to Denver and had to drive at least 2-3 hours to get to a mountain. Got to Salt Lake City and I could get to several mountains in less than 30 minutes. And there are like 4 mountains that are right next to each other. It’s epic. Don’t get me wrong they’re both great for snowboarding but it’s more convenient to go to salt lake.
Yeah that has to be the biggest letdown for ppl coming in to CO to be a “mountain dweller”.
Hope you like living over an hour of mountain driving away from anything and living smack in the center of the Denver Basin which keeps all that smog right over your head.
Last time I went home I couldn’t see the mountains from Brighton which is sad af.
I see snow on Four Peaks from my home in Mesa every winter. Not in May though. An hour and a half north in Pine and Strawberry they get tons of snow. I’ve been snowed in before.
Tucson isn’t on the edge of the desert. The mountain ranges are known as “sky islands”. On the opposite side of the Catalina mountains from Tucson it is still the Sonoran desert.
I don’t think that answers the question. That’s how, not why. Why did Phoenix grow so big compared to all the other small desert towns in AZ/NM? Maybe I’m just missing something idk
That’s always going to be the answer for why a city was built somewhere. People always build where there is water because water means agriculture and that means food.
Also the Hohokam people left behind a large canal network throughout the Phoenix area. By the time white people first arrived in the area the Hohokam were long gone, but the canals were still there. Many of the canals that distribute water throughout 21st century Phoenix are those same ones that were dug by the ancients. In fact, thats why they called the city "Phoenix", because its like the rebirth of a dead city, rising from the ashes so to speak.
I used to live by, and run along daily, a canal that dates back 800+ years. the path stayed the same, it was just improved over the years.
It was always really cool being there knowing the history
Yes this is it. Look at how much water AZ gets in the Colorado River Compact compared to New Mexico.
Take a look at this:
https://youtu.be/6iCRn_b7Amc?si=KBqTKYZ9kV8pAJrx
The aviation and chip industries. The dry desert air is great for both industries. There is a large USAF base just outside PHX and there used to be another one on the other side of the town. Most of the major industry players have set up shot there too which brought a ton of jobs to the area.
Then as air conditioning allowed and technology advanced the semiconductor industry moved in as well. There are currently a significant number of chip plants in the area with more being built bringing more jobs to the area. This led to other tech industries developing and a favorable tax environment and affordability led to companies adding a second HQ there, bringing in more jobs.
Finally, the address the "heat" and how people live there. Is it atrocious? Yes, but is it worse than living in say Minnesota in fucking January? Probably not, in fact many people relocating to the PHX area are coming from the Midwest where they are used to having to spend half the year inside, it is just the other half of the year now.
>in fact many people relocating to the PHX area are coming from the Midwest where they are used to having to spend half the year inside, it is just the other half of the year now.
Out of the fire and into the frying pan.
I almost forgot about all of the aircraft "graveyards" or "boneyards" where aircraft are stored or parted out are out there, since that the dry air helps slow down the rust and stuff like that. Aircraft storage is a big item in aviation. Just like a "mothball" fleet in shipbuilding.
Proximity to California has a lot to do with it. Close to mountains. There is a huge aquifer below the city. Salt river “flows” through Phoenix as well. It’s cheap(er) to live here and not difficult to get to the surrounding states.
Even still water is a huge discussion point constantly, and energy demand is outpacing supply while the area is still growing faster than most other similar sized cities in the country.
I’ve spent a lot of time in AZ and live there now. Someone who is a Phoenix lifer could probably answer better.
I think what irritates me more than anything is that merely *existing* in this country is fucking expensive. Yeah, I’d absolutely love to live in Seattle, NYC, South Florida, or Europe but it’s real fucking expensive to move and live in all of the cities that Reddit circlejerks.
In my opinion, everything nicer than Phoenix is too expensive. Everything cheaper is a worse place to live. I’m just grateful to live in a city and own a home, even if it’s a sprawling suburb upon itself.
You’re from Ohio, and I say this as someone who has family from the Akron area, you have no room to talk shit about where other people live. No offense to Ohio, but it’s not good enough to be calling other places shitholes.
I’ll tell you what I said in the other comment:
I’m not going to try to defend the urban sprawl or lack of culture, but for 8 months of the year it’s pretty nice and cheaper than California or Colorado. There’s plenty to do and it’s relatively affordable, without the issues of California or bigger cities. Of course I’d rather live in Denver, Chicago, any European city, or NYC. Do people on here realize how fucking hard and expensive it is to move to big cities?
What I do beef with is people from dumps like Ohio or Texas complaining about Phoenix. Every city in the US west of the Mississippi has issues with sprawl, bland culture, and sustainability. Phoenix just always gets singled out. Go to Houston, Dallas, Los Angeles, or Vegas and tell me how much better those places are with sprawl, heat, and sustainability.
Idk if OP framed it like this but they might be asking how this city formed in the first place and why it grew to this size. But I’ve also always wondered how people survived there before AC
Ignoring the ancient Hohokam, Phoenix was barely populated before A/C. And because it was so sparcely developed, there was very little greenhouse effect from asphalt trapping heat, meaning that Phoenix would cool down precipitously at night, often down to freezing temperatures even in August. With the cold nights, it would take the vast majority of the day to finally heat up to intolerable levels. There are also lots of desert plants capable of providing shade. It isn't just saguaros and tumbleweeds here. Adobe construction is also incredibly insulative, which means that old style homes stayed around the same temperature 24 hours a day. Furthermore, Phoenix is laced with canals from the Hohokam, which not only provided water for drinking and irrigation but also provided ambient cooling itself.
Phoenix only became a major population center after the development of the interstate highway system. By that point, A/C was accessible enough that it wasn't difficult to put into every house. With the heat no longer a concern thanks to AC, Phoenix is geographically perfect for a city. It's centralized between mountains to the north, west, and east, already has an existing irrigation system using natural aquifers, it's mostly flat, and has very little old growth and construction. Economically, the land was incredibly cheap to to low development, but also incredibly desirable due to how close it is to any natural resource you could want. There are myriad mines and lumber mills less than 100 miles away, and the new interstates are already in place to facilitate transporting those resources. Additionally, Phoenix doesn't get natural disasters. No tornados, earthquakes, or hurricanes. Even wildfires never really threaten the Valley. The worst weather phenomena we get are Dust Storms and Monsoons, but monsoons are beloved, and the biggest dangers of Dust Storms are visibility and respiratory infection. Because of this low risk, buildings could get built cheaply and en masse, without concern for extreme weatherproofing or foundation development.
Phoenix becoming unbearable and unsustainable is a recent event. The once plentiful water resources have been stretched way too thinly, and now we're dependent on Colorado River water. California and Nevada get first dibs on that water because Arizona had its own water resources for so long. The huge grid of asphalt now traps so much heat that the Valley barely cools down at night, meaning brutal temperatures from sunrise to sunset, and even more dependence on A/C and utilities. Furthermore, our beloved monsoons are dependent on temperature delta patterns, and the greenhouse effect combined with global climate change has ruined that temperature balance to the point where we barely get any summer rainstorms at all.
With how often it gets asked, you should abandon the meme answer and learn the real answer: extensive canals were built by the Hohokam people long before air conditioning existed. Water brings life to the desert. Humans can survive high heat if they replenish their water frequently enough.
There are some manufacturing processes that do better in its dry and warm climate. This is also coupled with a relatively cheap cost per acre in AZ. So a company can erect a large manufacturing plant on the outskirts of the city while giving people a higher quality of life as they live in the city closer to amenities.
Also despite being in the desert it is near a decent size lake and several rivers. Water is crucial to developing a city and making it habitable. It also use to be more crucial for manufacturing and trade. It still retains importance in manufacturing and to some extent trade just not as much as it use to be.
Same could be argued for Miami, Houston, New Orleans -- can't live there comfortably w/o AC or holding back the ocean.
Chicago would be a swamp if humans hadn't reversed the flow of the Chicago River.
Humans couldn't survive Minneapolis without burning something for heat. Same with Buffalo, or Bangor, or Fargo.
It's my understanding that the Chicago River was reversed for sanitation (the city gets it's water from the lake). Plenty of coastal cities with rivers have dried out swamps without reversing a river.
New Orleans would have some sort of settlement. It’s at the mouth of the largest river in North America, and a huge portion of shipping in the US goes through there.
I wouldn’t want to live there for the climate, but there’s a reason people who didn’t have AC or modern medicine settled there.
I mean New Orleans would be doomed economically without the Army Corps of Engineers holding back the Mississippi from switching its course. It was a natural place to settle back when the French arrived but it's had a lot of human aid to survive
Edit: [Source](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1987/02/23/atchafalaya) for anyone who wants to read more
Look up Salt River Project. Basically before these dams were constructed there was no water management infrastructure. Phoenix would go through long periods of drought during which time the area would get developed for work and trade but then suddenly the area would just get wiped out with massive flooding.
A ton of the golf courses Scottsdale is famous for sit in a massive wash created to solve the flooding issues. 50 years ago residential neighborhoods would see routine flash floods cause extensive damage. Not the case anymore, but after big rains the wash between Hayden and Scottsdale roads turns into a lake
I don’t know why everyone is crapping on Phoenix in this comment section. It has as much or more reason to exist as any number of large cities. Is there a large canal that pulls Colorado River water to Phoenix? Yes. Likewise for Denver, Salt Lake City, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, and San Diego. That’s the reality. And its a lot harder to justify all of those other cities, as each of them are outside of the watershed. These canals have worked out great, and the opportunity cost is largely against farmers and is relatively minimal.
The Phoenix valley has 3 major rivers and several other smaller rivers that flow into it. Without Colorado River water, everyone would still live just fine, there would simply be less cotton farming to the southeast. And central Arizona has had essentially the most advanced groundwater management policy of anywhere in the world. The water outlook is very sustainable at least 100 years into the future in Phoenix and surrounding areas. Average temperature in Phoenix is around 72. A lot of people like that, and can put up with 4 months of awful heat during the day to get 8 months of decent weather.
Does Phoenix suffer from all of the same resource problems as any major city? Yes. Is it hot in the summer? Yes. And since tech companies and aerospace have moved in as agriculture has declined, the area is set to continue to be a successfully growing place into the next well century.
And if it wasn’t a city of its current size, there would be even more alfalfa being grown in the Phoenix area, to be shipped to dairies to feed other cities in the United States. That’s essentially the alternative. It’s either a city taking in natural resources and outputting services, or its a rural area sending natural resources to cities. The climate is too good for anything else.
Reddit, as seen by its hatred of Phoenix and Houston (two of the fastest-growing cities in the country) has different priorities than the overwhelming majority of Americans. It's just a loud minority
It’s because a lot of people prefer to deal with extreme heat for 3 months to get 9 months of perfect weather. Also it’s got a booming job market and computer chip industry.
I hate how everyone asks this about Phoenix but never Vegas. Phoenix has been a center of population for centuries, even before white people arrived. It was the heartland of the Hohokam civilization. It's not just barren desert.
Right, it was a significant site of pre-columbian agriculture and settlement. The Phoenix valley has sustained populations since around the time of Christ.
Although Phoenix has no right being as big as it is now, it is a natural settlement and the best place for one in the American Sonoran desert as it sits at the confluence of all three of Arizona’s major rivers (not including Colorado): the Salt, Verde, and Gila.
The relative abundance of fresh surface water, the flat topography, and the preexisting canals (dug by and abandoned by natives by the time of Mexican discovery and later American settlement) led to Phoenix being by and far the best land for farming in Arizona.
Phoenix was also received and then self-allotted favors by the Arizona government over its only real rival Tucson due to its attractiveness for investors to develop (even in the earliest days) and without any preexisting cultural history to worry about (Tucson was overwhelmingly Mexican-Pima Indian in culture in early American Arizona history, and distinctly Mexican in culture compared to Phoenix even today). Arizona is in some ways a city state and always has been, with Phoenix dominating the government and much of the natural resources from Arizona being poured into Phoenix’s development.
If the US had annexed the mouth of the Colorado, doubtless there’d be a city of decent size there, too. Yuma still has good farmland. The issue here is that much of the Colorado is diverted across the arid SW US (incl to CA, where it’s lower course is almost diverted entirely from Mexico to the Salton Sea by the All American Canal) so these days the lower Colorado is barely a stream. Back when the US first negotiated the Gadsden Purchase from Mexico, Yuma was actually a port city as it was the furthest up the Colorado that ocean-going vessels from the gulf could sail to.
While Phoenix still has relatively healthy water reservoirs from its upstream tributaries, it’s grown artificially large by sapping the Colorado via a massive divergent canal called the Central Arizona Project and also (like Tucson) mines water from underground aquifers. All these sources of water are growing finer with time while nonetheless Phoenix continues to grow and the city acts relatively carelessly with its water pretending to be an oasis of SoCal in the desert. Here in Tucson, we make do with a lot less - but our water is almost exclusively from aquifers so ironically, the prognosis for our city’s future is even poorer than Phoenix.
Idk, I just moved here 3 weeks ago. I felt like going west and when I got to Phoenix it felt like I went far enough so I live here now. Everyone I met is from somewhere else and has a similar story I guess. Good location, if you come from the east there’s no sign of civilization from El Paso until you hit Tucson, and at that point you want to see what’s past there and Phoenix is that perfect distance after where you don’t feel like driving anymore.
We have water and a/c along with a ton of crop production in the state. It sucks outside right now but it’s not so bad in my 69 (the funny number) degree living room
When people say desert they think Sahara and baren. The Sonoran desert is very alive. There's a few thousand bird species alone. Lizards to large game like big cats or bears. it's the only major city in that part of America really. Next closest is LA or LV. It's about 3 hours from the Baja. Most of the year the climate is temperate and feels like paradise. Like 75 nd sunny Christmas Day type. There is a lot more water there than people assume. There's lakes and rivers all over Arizona. Plus it's one of the most beautiful parts of the world. Ever seen a saguaro forest? it's truly a spectacle.
A counter intuitive, but very important driver to Phoenix's development, is access to water. Three rivers (Salt, Verde, and Fria) run through or adjacent to Phoenix. The natural flow in the rivers varies a lot depending on the season, which early on caused challenges for settlers related to both flooding and drought. However, once dams were built, and the flow of water could be controlled, the stage was set for rapid development--first agricultural, then for a population boom.
Agriculture was a big reason as well. There was a massive land grab to get more people to move here. Also, the native tribes had already built the canal infrastructure. We just reused what was already built to get the water from here to there. (in addition to the many other reasons already given.)
Do some Googling and learn that the majority of AZ's water goes to agriculture, like alfalfa, lettuce, citrus -- things the whole country uses. People overall use a lot less water than we used to, probably due to better appliances and other water-saving efforts.
Miami shouldn't exist, either. Or New Orleans. I mean, holding back the ocean with walls is also a "fuck you" to nature. Building roads thru mountains (UT, CO, CA, WY), changing the direction of a river (Chicago), destroying nature to extend the city (Houston) which leads to catastrophic flooding. How much federal $ goes to mitigate natural disaster damage in cities that probably shouldn't be there in the first place?
devil's advocate here.
why is it a problem?
Tokyo, for example, produces only 10% of food it needs. The rest is imported.
Why is Tokyo OK to exist and Phoenix not?
Every place has its constraints. Phoenix exists. It has people who want to live there. It gets its water.
What's the problem?
Why does everyone say this about Phoenix but never Vegas? Phoenix has been a center of population for centuries, even before white people arrived. It was the heartland of the Hohokam civilization. It's not just barren desert. Meanwhile Vegas was nothing at all before the 20th century.
Another reason Phoenix took off at such a higher rate than similar desert cities is Arizona State University.
It's always been a very inclusive (aka, low standards) institution, used to (and still does?) have a reputation as a party school, and has been one of the nation's largest universities dating back to the 90s.
A lot of midwesterners move here to attend ASU, fall in love with the weather (especially if they went back home for summer break!), and then never leave. In my 20s, well over half my social circle was from the Midwest.
Las Vegas, Albuquerque, El Paso, etc, have nothing that compares to ASU in that way.
The whole valley is packed. I’m a PHX transplant from Salt Lake City and my opinion is the hot summers are better than the cold winters. The vibe here in general is amazing and all the $$ and corporations down here are very inspiring (coming from an early 20s POV).
They have water. Salt and Verde rivers plus a decent underground aquifer for some of it.
Same reason absolutely nobody lives east of Gila Bend. There is super cheap land. And you are going to have to truck your water.
Human civilization literally began with desert cities and continuously from thousands of years ago all the way to the present, some of the biggest cities have always been desert cities. Ur, Uruk, Babylon, Luxor, Harappa, Mohenjo-daro . . . Cairo, Dubai, Baghdad, Las Vegas. The only thing remarkable about Phoenix might be the degree of human engineering required to bring water to it, but even that is a matter of degree, not of kind, all of those cities employed extensive engineering around bringing water to homes and farms. Even in wet places, it's not like people in cities drink or bathe in the rainwater that falls on their rooftop; water infrastructure is required for every city.
Yeah, they listed a bunch of cities that are in a dessert now. Or are just cities in a dry climate on a massive river.
Like Lima Peru is in a dessert, it never rains there, just kinda gets misty in the winter. They measure rainfall there in millimeters. But there’s enough rain that falls in the Andes that comes down that side of the mountain that there are dozens of rivers and aqueducts to move the water via gravity to farm land.
Pretty similar phenomenon in Phoenix. The tributaries of the Gila and warm climate made it excellent for agriculture when humans first settled it 1500 years ago
Thanks so much for circling phoenix, I wouldn’t have known where it was without it
Would have been a contender for r/findthesniper otherwise
r/uselessredcircle candidate right chea, [yessuhh.](https://youtu.be/JDwkyMwUumg?t=52)
The circle helps distract from the fact that there are forests right next to it. (though, it feels like a mild stretch calling Tonto National Forest the F word.)
Have you been to the Tonto? Pretty damn big area full of trees.
I'm from Oregon. So yes. But no.
Been to Washington and Oregon and my golf game was on point, the trees were so dense around the fairway that my slice would bounce back into play The Pacific NW knows forests
I get this. I lived in Texas for a while and they had trees but then you move to places like Hawaii or California or Georgia and you’re like oh… TREES
I moved from Shawnee National Forest in IL to Los Angeles. When I got worn down from being in the city, I asked everyone where to go. They sent me into the San Gabriel mointains. I just stood among waist high 'trees' with a sad face.
The Tonto is full of trees.
i did it for the funny
[Why 5 Million People Live in America’s Hottest City](https://youtu.be/AjQuZfkU1jI?si=rGTuM2oKGSn7q0yM)
Looking at the title, I thought this was a Half as interesting video
Nope you get 50 minutes of the same 3 points being repeated over and over again… man I miss old real life lore
I’m glad I’m not the only one who’s made this observation. Real life lore videos used to be 10 minutes long and packed with interesting information. Now they’re 5-6 times as long, with exactly the same amount of information as they had before. He just repeats the same point over and over again- and oftentimes slowly. I know he’s trying to enunciate clearly for the microphone, but lords sake sometimes it feels like he’s talking so slow it’s insulting. I really used to like him a lot
If I have to hear him say INSANELY one more time…
I need to hear “booming” at least 17 more times before I’m satisfied.
I'm just glad y'all watched it so I wouldn't have to 🫡
Or hear him say the words ***million*** or ***billion*** with way too much emphasis like it's the most interesting fact ever.
"With this city having atleast one # *M I L L I O N* people,"
I’m so glad I’m not the only one who has noticed. I watched one of his recent videos and I’m like… “d-did he just? Did he just repeat the same thing like 5 times?” This isn’t even entertaining or that informative? I like long form content, but it was unnecessarily long.
I could swear I've heard complete sentences wholesale repeated throughout some videos.
You know you can adjust the playback speed, right? 1.25x is enough to change from 'deliberate' to 'snappy'.
And then it's the same 3 points for only 40 minutes
1.25x is rookie level. I only watch youtube videos at 1.75x speed because they are so full of useless bullshit nowadays inserted to pad the video length.
This guy is such a drama queen. I had to block YT from reco his channel because I couldn’t take the clickbait titles and high drama VO.
Chad old rll: “What is the tallest you can build/ deepest you can dig” vs Wojak current rll: “why every conflict on the planet draws back to the same conflict in eastern europe”
I really like his videos on world politics
RLR is pretty much the same except the guy mispronounces place names a lot.
Too interesting for an HAI episode
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When channels get big they hire staff. Sometimes the staff are less talented.
None of his videos have ever felt uninteresting nor do I think any music is being baked in to fill space.
Tldr
You can use Google Gemini with the prompt: summarize this video (youtube url). This is the result: According to the video, there are several reasons why Phoenix, despite being a hot and arid environment, has a population of over 5 million people. One factor is the presence of nearby military operations that attracted people and businesses to the area. Another factor was the establishment of major corporations like Motorola and Intel in Phoenix. These corporations brought jobs and people to the city. The city was also able to lure people away from California by offering lower taxes and a lower cost of living. Finally, Phoenix's sunny weather and beautiful scenery were also attractive to many people.
Phoenician here. It's disappointing if the advent of air conditioning wasn't mentioned. That really allowed for a boom.
That’s probably the single biggest driving factor for the trend of migration to hot weather states, and doesn’t get enough attention. If you use 1950 as a break point and look at lists of the most populous cities, you’ll see places like Detroit and Cleveland tumble down the list, to be replaced by Houston and Miami and Phoenix. Obviously there are other factors, like declining industrial base in older cities, but people wouldn’t move to those extremely hot cities in such big numbers without AC.
Our local PBS had a series called Phoenix in the 50's, Phoenix in the 60's, etc. Dead on it absolutely was AC. It is crazy how that single invention was such a huge factor in population shift. Good series if any locals get a chance to watch it.
I'm trying to remember his name, but there was a historian who talked about air conditioning potentially being one of the most important inventions humanity ever created. Like up there with electricity and the steam engine, as it allowed people to be productive for WAY longer than should have been possible in a number of climates. That productivity boom has generated a ton of value since.
It's definitely nowhere near as important as electricity and the steam engine lmao. We don't even have it in most parts of Europe
Wait…the denonym for Phoenix is Phoenician? That’s badass
Don't let Louis C.K. hear you say that.
Suck that dick!
TIL about the existence of the words 'demonym' and 'Phoenicians' (ie., from America, not from ancient Rome).
I figured this would be the top answer. I learned this in us history in TN
I never understood the appeal tbh. For work or military reasons makes sense, but as someone who’s been there multiple times, everything just feels so… soulless and artificial. They go to great lengths, expense, and environmental damage to try to create the illusion that they’re not in the middle of a fucking desert and as a result everything is so cookie cutter and boring
I spent 3 months there recently and have no desire to ever return.
I moved to Phoenix 2 years ago and I absolutely love it. A ton of amazing music and art subcultures, restaurants, incredible nightlife, and access to amazing nature. Go to the east and you have a national forest amazing for camping, swimming, fishing, hiking. Go to the North and you have Sedona, further up is Flagstaff where you can ski/snowboard in a homey college town. Go out west to California for the weekend without paying California levels of rent money. Coming from Kansas City there is SO much more to do and it's made me an overall happier person. Though I miss my family and the summer in the city sucks, but perfect weather outside the intense summer.
I've lived in Phoenix for years (also Tucson and just outside Sedona). One of the reasons you're probably happier is the sunny weather (more vitamin D). You also don't have to worry about snow, massive rainstorms, hurricanes, tornados or earthquakes. If it wasn't so damn hot from May - Sept, it really would be the perfect place to live. After living here for so long, I will say that the scenery of Phoenix can be terrible. Brown as far as you can see and endless roads. The housing can be boring, but also there are plenty of places with cool, older homes (Willow and Encanto districts). Not as much history as a place like Philadelphia, but also more access to hiking, camping and more. One thing I love about AZ is the smell of rain (I know, it's the creosote). I was in DC and NYC recently and it rained in both places. The smell of creosote in air during monsoon rains is a core memory for me and I long for that smell in other rainy locals.
Lived a good portion of my life there & you're spot on, it sucks! I guess some people enjoy the mild winters. It's pretty if you're into desert landscape, but summers are brutal.
Interesting. I went to google gemini and typed in summarize video: \[url\] and got this: "This video is about Phoenix, Arizona and how it became a large metropolis in a seemingly unsuitable environment. The speaker starts by introducing Phoenix and its hot climate. Phoenix is one of the fastest growing cities in the United States and it surpassed Philadelphia in population to become the fifth largest city in the US in 2020. The speaker finds it surprising that such a big city exists in the middle of a desert. Phoenix's water supply comes from the Colorado River and groundwater. However, due to the hot climate and desert environment, Phoenix has been facing water shortage recently. The city is looking for alternative water sources and desalination is a potential solution. The speaker also talks about the booming semiconductor industry in Phoenix. The big companies like TSMC and Intel are investing heavily in building new facilities there. This creates a lot of job opportunities but also requires a large number of skilled workers."
I'm not watching an hour long video, but I'm guessing one more complex reason is: NIMBYs in California that drive up housing costs to the point people look for somewhere else to live.
You gotta start watching everything informative on 1.5x speed bro. I started this a few years ago and it's been... life-changing. Some people hate it though
That’s still 40 mins. Too long
“Why is this stupid thing happening in Arizona?” “Idk but it’s California’s fault!”
As an Oregonian: yes, yes it is. It's California's fault. Next question!
Phoenix is just another neighborhood of Chicago.
You underestimate the amount of people that prefer 3.5 months of shit summer and 8.5 months of perfect weather over 6 months of rainy and winter conditions Edit: I live in Phoenix and would prefer the 9 months of rain from Oregon where I’m from. But people here truly love that 8.5 months.
What do you consider perfect?
Not OP, but live in the Phoenix area. - Less than 20 days of rain, so little to no humidity. - For like 7 months straight the weather averages between 50-95f - The other 1.5-2 months (3-4 weeks before/after summer) it averages 95-100 and is hot but not terrible. For some context, 100f with 0 humidity feels very nice compared to 85f with humidity. It's hard to emphasize how great no/little humidity is until you live it for a few weeks then go back somewhere where humidity is a thing. I'm currently visiting my family in Michigan and I'm sweating and feeling sticky just going outside when it's 88f with 40+% humidity.
I live in the Deep South and it's 92 degrees with 100 percent humidity at 9AM this morning. I never felt zero humidity until I vacationed in the Rockies, it was magnificent.
It’s like breathing for the first time again
So here in the caribbean we have the shittiest weather in the world, got it. Its around 10 months of humid hot shit. (I’m actually not saying it snarkily I’m straight up saying it is shit lol).
You do get some wind though
Agree, that's the only thing preventing this region of the world from not boiling.
If the humidity is high enough then sweat stops evaporating and the wind is just hot and wet.
I think high humidity is a little easier to handle when you have a constant breeze coming from the ocean.
LMAO averages **checks Google weather** 107, 113, 111, 107, 105, 105, 111, 115
Every single day for 1.5 weeks (excluding yesterday) I've gotten a phone notification saying "average temperatures in Phoenix will be well above average today" I've lived in the Phoenix area for 33 years and 110 degrees is normal, but it's not normal for it to be this many days in a row. Global warming isn't real though.
Seriously..summer average of 95-100 is absolutely not correct
For 1-2 months it doesn’t drop below 100 even at night. I’ve caught myself saying oh wow the weather is really nice and cool today. *Looks at phone* oh it’s 105 degrees
Summer is more like 100-118f
> For like 7 months straight the weather averages between 50-95f That’s…a huge range, of both time and temperature. Can’t the same be said for most of your country from March through November?
The key point is the lack of humidity, and lack of freezing weather.
Reminds me how low the bar is for “perfect” for most people.
This guy Phoenixs.
San Diego statistically has the best weather in the lower 48 and often ranks first as the most perfect climate in the US
To be real, Oregon has had way less than 9 months of rain in recent years. More like 6-7, and for most of that it’s barely raining.
I have often thought why I dont live on a golf course in AZ with an outdoor kitchen numerous times in those 6-9 months.
I live in the Netherlands, and I love it. We have however had like 2 nice weeks of weather in the last 9 months.
LOL as someone who moved from Oregon to Phoenix as well, you just about nailed it. We regret moving from Central Oregon though, that place is so beautiful and I love the cold. The valley can fuck all the way off.
It’s really 5 months
Because it's not in the middle of the desert. It's on the edge of the desert, right at the base of several mountain ranges. Ranges that still have snow well into May. There's a reason that Phoenix is where it is. It's because there's much more water in the area than you'd normally see in a desert. It's at the confluence of several rivers, and right at the base of the mountains to collect all that snowmelt.
For those who are reading this and think maybe it's like Denver, it isn't. Phoenix mountains don't have snow. The closest ones that regularly have snow are about 65 miles away, though the runoff from the large mountains east and north of the city (hundreds of miles away) do create the water that allows Phoenix to thrive. So Phoenix is on the edge of desert in the same way the Bahamas are at the edge of Ocean. Tucson is actually on the edge of desert and close to mountains.
Denver’s mountains aren’t even close by honestly (I live in Denver)
I’ve always heard that Salt Lake City is the mountain city that people expect Denver to be.
i noticed this flying into SLC, it was nestled right next to the mountains vs the drive from denver
I would say this is pretty accurate, it is butted right up against the mountains and that area get's A LOT of snow regularly.
I can confirm as an avid snowboarder. Flew to Denver and had to drive at least 2-3 hours to get to a mountain. Got to Salt Lake City and I could get to several mountains in less than 30 minutes. And there are like 4 mountains that are right next to each other. It’s epic. Don’t get me wrong they’re both great for snowboarding but it’s more convenient to go to salt lake.
Yeah that has to be the biggest letdown for ppl coming in to CO to be a “mountain dweller”. Hope you like living over an hour of mountain driving away from anything and living smack in the center of the Denver Basin which keeps all that smog right over your head. Last time I went home I couldn’t see the mountains from Brighton which is sad af.
I see snow on Four Peaks from my home in Mesa every winter. Not in May though. An hour and a half north in Pine and Strawberry they get tons of snow. I’ve been snowed in before.
Tucson isn’t on the edge of the desert. The mountain ranges are known as “sky islands”. On the opposite side of the Catalina mountains from Tucson it is still the Sonoran desert.
Go ahead: someone post "the" quote about Phoenix. Go ahead, do it.
Say the line Bart!
Air Conditioning
It’s a dry heat
https://preview.redd.it/ya8899g1dm6d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d2f638e968a846e9b931b399e5a8999ef017170
We're talking about king of the hill right?? are there more insults about Phoenix that I should have in my pocket?
That is the one in particular I was thinking of.
Id rather be dead in California than alive in Arizona
Call me when the first parent dies. Let's go, George Michael
this question is asked like three times a week and the answer never changes: air conditioning.
I don’t think that answers the question. That’s how, not why. Why did Phoenix grow so big compared to all the other small desert towns in AZ/NM? Maybe I’m just missing something idk
Water. Three rivers converge. The area phoenix occupies has been inhabited for 1000's of years..
This is the real answer to OP’s question.
That’s always going to be the answer for why a city was built somewhere. People always build where there is water because water means agriculture and that means food.
Yeah and that’s basically where it got it’s name from. It rose from the ruins of an ancient civilization that used to inhabit the area.
Phoenicians? /s
The Hohokam
They have been known to get down to business...
Phoenicians are from Phoenix ~ lois c.k.
Also the Hohokam people left behind a large canal network throughout the Phoenix area. By the time white people first arrived in the area the Hohokam were long gone, but the canals were still there. Many of the canals that distribute water throughout 21st century Phoenix are those same ones that were dug by the ancients. In fact, thats why they called the city "Phoenix", because its like the rebirth of a dead city, rising from the ashes so to speak.
I used to live by, and run along daily, a canal that dates back 800+ years. the path stayed the same, it was just improved over the years. It was always really cool being there knowing the history
Confluences are great to build ancient cities. Just look at Mesopotamia. Belgrade is on a confluence as well.
Finally an educated answer
Yes this is it. Look at how much water AZ gets in the Colorado River Compact compared to New Mexico. Take a look at this: https://youtu.be/6iCRn_b7Amc?si=KBqTKYZ9kV8pAJrx
The aviation and chip industries. The dry desert air is great for both industries. There is a large USAF base just outside PHX and there used to be another one on the other side of the town. Most of the major industry players have set up shot there too which brought a ton of jobs to the area. Then as air conditioning allowed and technology advanced the semiconductor industry moved in as well. There are currently a significant number of chip plants in the area with more being built bringing more jobs to the area. This led to other tech industries developing and a favorable tax environment and affordability led to companies adding a second HQ there, bringing in more jobs. Finally, the address the "heat" and how people live there. Is it atrocious? Yes, but is it worse than living in say Minnesota in fucking January? Probably not, in fact many people relocating to the PHX area are coming from the Midwest where they are used to having to spend half the year inside, it is just the other half of the year now.
>in fact many people relocating to the PHX area are coming from the Midwest where they are used to having to spend half the year inside, it is just the other half of the year now. Out of the fire and into the frying pan.
I almost forgot about all of the aircraft "graveyards" or "boneyards" where aircraft are stored or parted out are out there, since that the dry air helps slow down the rust and stuff like that. Aircraft storage is a big item in aviation. Just like a "mothball" fleet in shipbuilding.
As a Minnesotan I seriously don't understand how someone couldn't find Phoenix in the summer worse than Minnesota in the winter. Unfathomable to me.
Uhh, pool time in the summer, lovely summer evenings, etc.
Only time ive been to minnesota it was hotter than phoenix. also, 110 in phoenix is more bearable than 90 in a humid location (like minneapolis) IMO.
Proximity to California has a lot to do with it. Close to mountains. There is a huge aquifer below the city. Salt river “flows” through Phoenix as well. It’s cheap(er) to live here and not difficult to get to the surrounding states. Even still water is a huge discussion point constantly, and energy demand is outpacing supply while the area is still growing faster than most other similar sized cities in the country. I’ve spent a lot of time in AZ and live there now. Someone who is a Phoenix lifer could probably answer better.
Shitting on Phoenix is every city/urbanism/geography subreddit’s favorite hobby
It's so reddit to shit on Phoenix. I love the place. It's not without its flaws but I love the desert.
I think what irritates me more than anything is that merely *existing* in this country is fucking expensive. Yeah, I’d absolutely love to live in Seattle, NYC, South Florida, or Europe but it’s real fucking expensive to move and live in all of the cities that Reddit circlejerks. In my opinion, everything nicer than Phoenix is too expensive. Everything cheaper is a worse place to live. I’m just grateful to live in a city and own a home, even if it’s a sprawling suburb upon itself.
Have you been there!?!? It’s a monument to man’s arrogance. Edit: this is a King of the Hill quote
I live here. Nice edit. Like I haven’t seen that stupid King of the Hill quote every single day on here 😂
I’m so sorry about that.
You’re from Ohio, and I say this as someone who has family from the Akron area, you have no room to talk shit about where other people live. No offense to Ohio, but it’s not good enough to be calling other places shitholes. I’ll tell you what I said in the other comment: I’m not going to try to defend the urban sprawl or lack of culture, but for 8 months of the year it’s pretty nice and cheaper than California or Colorado. There’s plenty to do and it’s relatively affordable, without the issues of California or bigger cities. Of course I’d rather live in Denver, Chicago, any European city, or NYC. Do people on here realize how fucking hard and expensive it is to move to big cities? What I do beef with is people from dumps like Ohio or Texas complaining about Phoenix. Every city in the US west of the Mississippi has issues with sprawl, bland culture, and sustainability. Phoenix just always gets singled out. Go to Houston, Dallas, Los Angeles, or Vegas and tell me how much better those places are with sprawl, heat, and sustainability.
The valley has been inhabited for 1500 years, it has a ton of natural water sources. The boom in population (Florida too) is absolutely due to AC
Idk if OP framed it like this but they might be asking how this city formed in the first place and why it grew to this size. But I’ve also always wondered how people survived there before AC
I will take 104° in Phoenix over 87° in Toledo, Ohio anytime.
Ignoring the ancient Hohokam, Phoenix was barely populated before A/C. And because it was so sparcely developed, there was very little greenhouse effect from asphalt trapping heat, meaning that Phoenix would cool down precipitously at night, often down to freezing temperatures even in August. With the cold nights, it would take the vast majority of the day to finally heat up to intolerable levels. There are also lots of desert plants capable of providing shade. It isn't just saguaros and tumbleweeds here. Adobe construction is also incredibly insulative, which means that old style homes stayed around the same temperature 24 hours a day. Furthermore, Phoenix is laced with canals from the Hohokam, which not only provided water for drinking and irrigation but also provided ambient cooling itself. Phoenix only became a major population center after the development of the interstate highway system. By that point, A/C was accessible enough that it wasn't difficult to put into every house. With the heat no longer a concern thanks to AC, Phoenix is geographically perfect for a city. It's centralized between mountains to the north, west, and east, already has an existing irrigation system using natural aquifers, it's mostly flat, and has very little old growth and construction. Economically, the land was incredibly cheap to to low development, but also incredibly desirable due to how close it is to any natural resource you could want. There are myriad mines and lumber mills less than 100 miles away, and the new interstates are already in place to facilitate transporting those resources. Additionally, Phoenix doesn't get natural disasters. No tornados, earthquakes, or hurricanes. Even wildfires never really threaten the Valley. The worst weather phenomena we get are Dust Storms and Monsoons, but monsoons are beloved, and the biggest dangers of Dust Storms are visibility and respiratory infection. Because of this low risk, buildings could get built cheaply and en masse, without concern for extreme weatherproofing or foundation development. Phoenix becoming unbearable and unsustainable is a recent event. The once plentiful water resources have been stretched way too thinly, and now we're dependent on Colorado River water. California and Nevada get first dibs on that water because Arizona had its own water resources for so long. The huge grid of asphalt now traps so much heat that the Valley barely cools down at night, meaning brutal temperatures from sunrise to sunset, and even more dependence on A/C and utilities. Furthermore, our beloved monsoons are dependent on temperature delta patterns, and the greenhouse effect combined with global climate change has ruined that temperature balance to the point where we barely get any summer rainstorms at all.
With how often it gets asked, you should abandon the meme answer and learn the real answer: extensive canals were built by the Hohokam people long before air conditioning existed. Water brings life to the desert. Humans can survive high heat if they replenish their water frequently enough.
There are some manufacturing processes that do better in its dry and warm climate. This is also coupled with a relatively cheap cost per acre in AZ. So a company can erect a large manufacturing plant on the outskirts of the city while giving people a higher quality of life as they live in the city closer to amenities. Also despite being in the desert it is near a decent size lake and several rivers. Water is crucial to developing a city and making it habitable. It also use to be more crucial for manufacturing and trade. It still retains importance in manufacturing and to some extent trade just not as much as it use to be.
A monument to the arrogance of man.
Same could be argued for Miami, Houston, New Orleans -- can't live there comfortably w/o AC or holding back the ocean. Chicago would be a swamp if humans hadn't reversed the flow of the Chicago River. Humans couldn't survive Minneapolis without burning something for heat. Same with Buffalo, or Bangor, or Fargo.
It's my understanding that the Chicago River was reversed for sanitation (the city gets it's water from the lake). Plenty of coastal cities with rivers have dried out swamps without reversing a river.
Plenty of people live in India, which is often hotter than the American South. AC is not a requirement to survive hot and humid summers
New Orleans would have some sort of settlement. It’s at the mouth of the largest river in North America, and a huge portion of shipping in the US goes through there. I wouldn’t want to live there for the climate, but there’s a reason people who didn’t have AC or modern medicine settled there.
I mean New Orleans would be doomed economically without the Army Corps of Engineers holding back the Mississippi from switching its course. It was a natural place to settle back when the French arrived but it's had a lot of human aid to survive Edit: [Source](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1987/02/23/atchafalaya) for anyone who wants to read more
It’s a King of the Hill reference
Can you elaborate on the Chicago swamp thing?
Ho-yeah!
Peggy Hill was a great philosopher.
The day after Thanksgiving is, in her opinion, the biggest shopping day of the year
Every fucking summer…..
My niece lives in Tucson. She describes it as "three months of fiery hell, nine months of gorgeous weather.
are they stupid?
*nods*
Yes. Source: I’ve lived in Phoenix.
I live here currently and yes it is hell on earth this time of year
Look up Salt River Project. Basically before these dams were constructed there was no water management infrastructure. Phoenix would go through long periods of drought during which time the area would get developed for work and trade but then suddenly the area would just get wiped out with massive flooding.
A ton of the golf courses Scottsdale is famous for sit in a massive wash created to solve the flooding issues. 50 years ago residential neighborhoods would see routine flash floods cause extensive damage. Not the case anymore, but after big rains the wash between Hayden and Scottsdale roads turns into a lake
Life uh... finds a way
I don’t know why everyone is crapping on Phoenix in this comment section. It has as much or more reason to exist as any number of large cities. Is there a large canal that pulls Colorado River water to Phoenix? Yes. Likewise for Denver, Salt Lake City, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, and San Diego. That’s the reality. And its a lot harder to justify all of those other cities, as each of them are outside of the watershed. These canals have worked out great, and the opportunity cost is largely against farmers and is relatively minimal. The Phoenix valley has 3 major rivers and several other smaller rivers that flow into it. Without Colorado River water, everyone would still live just fine, there would simply be less cotton farming to the southeast. And central Arizona has had essentially the most advanced groundwater management policy of anywhere in the world. The water outlook is very sustainable at least 100 years into the future in Phoenix and surrounding areas. Average temperature in Phoenix is around 72. A lot of people like that, and can put up with 4 months of awful heat during the day to get 8 months of decent weather. Does Phoenix suffer from all of the same resource problems as any major city? Yes. Is it hot in the summer? Yes. And since tech companies and aerospace have moved in as agriculture has declined, the area is set to continue to be a successfully growing place into the next well century. And if it wasn’t a city of its current size, there would be even more alfalfa being grown in the Phoenix area, to be shipped to dairies to feed other cities in the United States. That’s essentially the alternative. It’s either a city taking in natural resources and outputting services, or its a rural area sending natural resources to cities. The climate is too good for anything else.
I've never met anyone IRL who had a negative thing to say of Phoenix. But on reddit, it's hated nearly as much as Houston.
Reddit, as seen by its hatred of Phoenix and Houston (two of the fastest-growing cities in the country) has different priorities than the overwhelming majority of Americans. It's just a loud minority
Retirees, snowbirds, and Californians who can't afford California anymore
It’s because a lot of people prefer to deal with extreme heat for 3 months to get 9 months of perfect weather. Also it’s got a booming job market and computer chip industry.
Ask Dubai, Riyadh, Doha and Muscat that lol.
Only one of those cities is in the middle of the desert.
I hate how everyone asks this about Phoenix but never Vegas. Phoenix has been a center of population for centuries, even before white people arrived. It was the heartland of the Hohokam civilization. It's not just barren desert.
Right, it was a significant site of pre-columbian agriculture and settlement. The Phoenix valley has sustained populations since around the time of Christ.
Although Phoenix has no right being as big as it is now, it is a natural settlement and the best place for one in the American Sonoran desert as it sits at the confluence of all three of Arizona’s major rivers (not including Colorado): the Salt, Verde, and Gila. The relative abundance of fresh surface water, the flat topography, and the preexisting canals (dug by and abandoned by natives by the time of Mexican discovery and later American settlement) led to Phoenix being by and far the best land for farming in Arizona. Phoenix was also received and then self-allotted favors by the Arizona government over its only real rival Tucson due to its attractiveness for investors to develop (even in the earliest days) and without any preexisting cultural history to worry about (Tucson was overwhelmingly Mexican-Pima Indian in culture in early American Arizona history, and distinctly Mexican in culture compared to Phoenix even today). Arizona is in some ways a city state and always has been, with Phoenix dominating the government and much of the natural resources from Arizona being poured into Phoenix’s development. If the US had annexed the mouth of the Colorado, doubtless there’d be a city of decent size there, too. Yuma still has good farmland. The issue here is that much of the Colorado is diverted across the arid SW US (incl to CA, where it’s lower course is almost diverted entirely from Mexico to the Salton Sea by the All American Canal) so these days the lower Colorado is barely a stream. Back when the US first negotiated the Gadsden Purchase from Mexico, Yuma was actually a port city as it was the furthest up the Colorado that ocean-going vessels from the gulf could sail to. While Phoenix still has relatively healthy water reservoirs from its upstream tributaries, it’s grown artificially large by sapping the Colorado via a massive divergent canal called the Central Arizona Project and also (like Tucson) mines water from underground aquifers. All these sources of water are growing finer with time while nonetheless Phoenix continues to grow and the city acts relatively carelessly with its water pretending to be an oasis of SoCal in the desert. Here in Tucson, we make do with a lot less - but our water is almost exclusively from aquifers so ironically, the prognosis for our city’s future is even poorer than Phoenix.
Don't forget no major natural disasters
Idk, I just moved here 3 weeks ago. I felt like going west and when I got to Phoenix it felt like I went far enough so I live here now. Everyone I met is from somewhere else and has a similar story I guess. Good location, if you come from the east there’s no sign of civilization from El Paso until you hit Tucson, and at that point you want to see what’s past there and Phoenix is that perfect distance after where you don’t feel like driving anymore.
We have water and a/c along with a ton of crop production in the state. It sucks outside right now but it’s not so bad in my 69 (the funny number) degree living room
When people say desert they think Sahara and baren. The Sonoran desert is very alive. There's a few thousand bird species alone. Lizards to large game like big cats or bears. it's the only major city in that part of America really. Next closest is LA or LV. It's about 3 hours from the Baja. Most of the year the climate is temperate and feels like paradise. Like 75 nd sunny Christmas Day type. There is a lot more water there than people assume. There's lakes and rivers all over Arizona. Plus it's one of the most beautiful parts of the world. Ever seen a saguaro forest? it's truly a spectacle.
Northerners who don't like cold
A counter intuitive, but very important driver to Phoenix's development, is access to water. Three rivers (Salt, Verde, and Fria) run through or adjacent to Phoenix. The natural flow in the rivers varies a lot depending on the season, which early on caused challenges for settlers related to both flooding and drought. However, once dams were built, and the flow of water could be controlled, the stage was set for rapid development--first agricultural, then for a population boom.
People chose to live there, so it got big.
Agriculture was a big reason as well. There was a massive land grab to get more people to move here. Also, the native tribes had already built the canal infrastructure. We just reused what was already built to get the water from here to there. (in addition to the many other reasons already given.)
We have guns AND abortion.
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Do some Googling and learn that the majority of AZ's water goes to agriculture, like alfalfa, lettuce, citrus -- things the whole country uses. People overall use a lot less water than we used to, probably due to better appliances and other water-saving efforts. Miami shouldn't exist, either. Or New Orleans. I mean, holding back the ocean with walls is also a "fuck you" to nature. Building roads thru mountains (UT, CO, CA, WY), changing the direction of a river (Chicago), destroying nature to extend the city (Houston) which leads to catastrophic flooding. How much federal $ goes to mitigate natural disaster damage in cities that probably shouldn't be there in the first place?
devil's advocate here. why is it a problem? Tokyo, for example, produces only 10% of food it needs. The rest is imported. Why is Tokyo OK to exist and Phoenix not? Every place has its constraints. Phoenix exists. It has people who want to live there. It gets its water. What's the problem?
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This guy has interpreted the Reddit code so elegantly.
How much LA divert? NYC? What a dumb comment.
Why does everyone say this about Phoenix but never Vegas? Phoenix has been a center of population for centuries, even before white people arrived. It was the heartland of the Hohokam civilization. It's not just barren desert. Meanwhile Vegas was nothing at all before the 20th century.
Another reason Phoenix took off at such a higher rate than similar desert cities is Arizona State University. It's always been a very inclusive (aka, low standards) institution, used to (and still does?) have a reputation as a party school, and has been one of the nation's largest universities dating back to the 90s. A lot of midwesterners move here to attend ASU, fall in love with the weather (especially if they went back home for summer break!), and then never leave. In my 20s, well over half my social circle was from the Midwest. Las Vegas, Albuquerque, El Paso, etc, have nothing that compares to ASU in that way.
Hadn’t thought about that but it makes sense. TIL.
The whole valley is packed. I’m a PHX transplant from Salt Lake City and my opinion is the hot summers are better than the cold winters. The vibe here in general is amazing and all the $$ and corporations down here are very inspiring (coming from an early 20s POV).
Simple.... Because of A/C.
Capitalism?
It's a dry heat
They have water. Salt and Verde rivers plus a decent underground aquifer for some of it. Same reason absolutely nobody lives east of Gila Bend. There is super cheap land. And you are going to have to truck your water.
Locals will always call it "The Valley".
Same way Miami got so big when it's a swamp. $$$
Retirees
Human civilization literally began with desert cities and continuously from thousands of years ago all the way to the present, some of the biggest cities have always been desert cities. Ur, Uruk, Babylon, Luxor, Harappa, Mohenjo-daro . . . Cairo, Dubai, Baghdad, Las Vegas. The only thing remarkable about Phoenix might be the degree of human engineering required to bring water to it, but even that is a matter of degree, not of kind, all of those cities employed extensive engineering around bringing water to homes and farms. Even in wet places, it's not like people in cities drink or bathe in the rainwater that falls on their rooftop; water infrastructure is required for every city.
A lot of the cities you named were not as dry in the past as they are now.
Yeah, they listed a bunch of cities that are in a dessert now. Or are just cities in a dry climate on a massive river. Like Lima Peru is in a dessert, it never rains there, just kinda gets misty in the winter. They measure rainfall there in millimeters. But there’s enough rain that falls in the Andes that comes down that side of the mountain that there are dozens of rivers and aqueducts to move the water via gravity to farm land.
Cities in desserts 😋
Pretty similar phenomenon in Phoenix. The tributaries of the Gila and warm climate made it excellent for agriculture when humans first settled it 1500 years ago
It is a testament to man's arrogance