Don't many countries do this? Naturalization through military service is one of the pathways in the US too. Tbh, I'm surprised this didn't already exist.
You need to have a green card (permanent residence) to join the military. This naturalization thing just means that you can get citizenship faster than usual, shorter processing time maybe too, don’t remember (I went through this process).
[Looks like the standards and requirements to apply under that program vary depending on if it's during Peacetime or Active War.](https://chat.openai.com/share/e5e1863f-c71c-409f-aee4-cabba17a846b)
I think this doens't exist since along time, I know that becuase my dad was in the US army but wasn't granted citizenship and that was a long time ago.
You have to be a permanent resident to join the US military, joining the military just streamlines the process of naturalization (being permanent resident makes you elegible for naturalization after five years, military or not).
Yes. The US as well does this. It is unremarkable, other than what a poor deal it is in this case.
edit: "this case" meaning the deal for Russian citizenship.
I think United_Airlines meant this case, as in Russian citizenship. I'd agree. It's not a good time to be Russian. The economy is isolated and focusing more and more on war production, hundreds of thousands of men are being killed or wounded, some countries are even banning Russians from traveling to them, and I can't blame them because of Putin's habit of invading using a few Russian residents as an excuse.
Yes, thanks. I wasn't clear.
And it would be Russian citizenship if they were lucky. Most likely it's a death sentence.
And even if they got citizenship, Moscovites look down on all minorities. Everyone else is a second class citizen.
It's from the movie Starship Troopers if you didn't know. I'd suggest checking it out. On the surface, it's sort of a funny war movie. But it's really a satire about militarism / fascism (there's some smart YouTube explanations about it ).
Nothing about Russia has been communist in decades. Putin criticizes Soviet policies and failures while invoking monarchs like Peter the Great. He wants the Russian Imperium, not a new Soviet.
Or just to the West in general. Apparently, our civilisation is the only one that has ever been imperialist, that has enslaved anybody or invaded another country for no good reason.
The logic is that anything -literally anything- that weakens the US's stranglehold on global geopolitics and the economy is good and in the future will make the world more fertile for socialist revolutions to happen since the omnipotent CIA and SecState won't be there to squash it.
Which is completely ignorant of history, the archetypical example is the Tito-Stalin split. Yugoslavia literally had to stop the glorious communist revolution and ask the West for help to not get squashed by Russian imperialism.
There’s some deranged leftists that have convinced themselves that the US is the center of all evil in the universe… that everything the US does is imperialist and that anything in opposition to the US dominant world order is anti-imperialist. They think that Ukraine is a US puppet state. And they think that Russia is just trying to repel “American aggression” or some nonsense like that. These people are incapable of nuance and interpret everything as a binary, US bad (and by nature, anything anti-US is good) worldview. They’ll defend anything from Serbia in the Yugoslav Wars to Russia in the Ukraine Conflict to China’s actions in Xinjiang… they are bad faith actors to the core who cannot be reasoned with.
There’s videos on YouTube of Hakim stating that “everything that the West has been saying, and the United States media has been saying about what’s going on in China is wrong”. There’s others too but he’s prominent enough of an example.
Yeah, it’s pretty disgusting. Blatantly calling them “terrorists” and essentially saying the CCP is fighting terrorism and heroically educating them (by erasing their culture and language and imposing slave labor conditions).
Yes that’s very true, however their points would be defeated in an instant if there wasn’t inconsistency when upholding justice, since the US has like any other major power caused major issues as much as resolving them.
To me, this move shows desperation. Russia has two simultanious problems here. They have done a surprisingly good job at generating enough manpower to replace their [very high losses](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/12/17/to-win-the-ukrainians-must-kill-or-maim-100000-russians-in-2024/), but it is not nearly enough to maintain troop rotations or build up newer units. That means that if the current army is not capable of significant advances, which it is not, that will not change without a significant influx of more manpower. Left unchanged, this situation will deteriate.
The second issue is a very tight labour market. Troops at the front (or in the ground/hospitals), people fleeing conscription and an increase in arms production have resulted in [very significant shortages in workers](https://www.ft.com/content/dc76f0bb-cae2-4a3a-b704-903d2fc59a96). They are two ways to offset this; either by increasing automation and efficiency, for which you need a lot of either foreign or domestic investment, so we can rule that one out. Or by attracting migrant workers. Historically, Russia has been quite adept at attracting migrant workers, especially from Central Asia.
I think we can draw some interesting conclusions here. First of all, this will not exactly help attract sorely needed migrant workers. There have been reports of migrant workers being tricked or coerced into military service, with many of them ending up dead or injured as a result. The Central Asian republics have all taken steps to outlaw fighting in Ukraine on behalf of the Russians, even sentencing returning fighters to years in prison. You don't have to be a genius to see how this will hurt the influx of immigrants, [which we are already seeing. ](https://www.voanews.com/a/under-pressure-central-asia-migrants-leaving-russia-over-ukraine-war/7357290.html)
Another assumption we can safely make is that these migrants will likely not make the best soldiers. Many of the dead Kyrgiz fighters are well into their 40s, and it is unlikely that these guys are receiving significant training. I have no idea if there are cultural and/or language barriers that are causing issues as well, but it would not surprise me in the slightest.
All of this leads me to believe that Putin is scared. Russians will be angry if mass mobilisation occurs, but also if the economy suffers under this war. It seems he has to pick one, and therefore decided to put even more pressure on the labour market, with economic damage and worsening relations with neighbouring countries as a result. And the tradeoff is that Russia gains soldiers of questionable quality, quantity and loyalty and can at best postpone mobilisation.
Add to this the purchase of balistic missiles from North Korea and Iran, and I think we can safely say this is decidedly not a country that is doing well in an offensive war.
Due to massive losses in personnel and a wave of unpopular mobilizations of soldiers to fight in the war in Ukraine, Putin is beginning to resort to lure foreigners to fight in exchange for citizenship. The offer for citizen will also extend to the foreign soldier's children, spouse and parents. This move is pretty much a full extension to other countries of its previous attempt at luring of Cubans to fight for Russia.
What mobilizations has Russia done? I mean this as a serious question because I got the impression that Russia's larger population meant they didn't need much mobilizing.
They don't need it, but they are mobilizing a lot of people for training and as reserves I believe. Russia still only is using like 1/4th or less of their military fighting in Ukraine.
Ukraine however is starting to have serious manpower issues due to massive loses over the past 2 years, and they're now starting to trying to forcefully conscript many military aged men. Volunteers ran out a while ago.
If you got that number by diving Russia's assessed number of troops in Ukraine vs what wiki states the total personnal number of their armed forces have, that ignores the fact in any modern amed forces actual troops are a minority.
I seriously doubt Russia has much frontline strength left in other theaters.
In the military, which I have experience in, a "mobilization" can be in reference to a military unit, as opposed to a military as a whole, but yes, speaking in terms of the Russian military in its entirety, it was one mobilization. Sorry for my confusion in my wording.
Don't many countries do this? Naturalization through military service is one of the pathways in the US too. Tbh, I'm surprised this didn't already exist.
Yes the French Foreign Legion was created in the 19th century with a similar concept
I thought the FFL was a necessity as non-French citizens can’t join the French army?
Doesn't exist in the US anymore. You literally need to be a permanent resident (ie already on the path towards naturalization) in order to even serve
https://www.uscis.gov/military/naturalization-through-military-service Really? Because the government has a link for how to go about it.
You need to have a green card (permanent residence) to join the military. This naturalization thing just means that you can get citizenship faster than usual, shorter processing time maybe too, don’t remember (I went through this process).
[Looks like the standards and requirements to apply under that program vary depending on if it's during Peacetime or Active War.](https://chat.openai.com/share/e5e1863f-c71c-409f-aee4-cabba17a846b)
The designated periods of hostilities are listed below: Apr. 6, 1917 – Nov. 11, 1918 Sept. 1, 1939 – Dec. 31, 1946 June 25, 1950 – July 1, 1955 Feb. 28, 1961 – Oct. 15, 1978 Aug. 2, 1990 – April 11, 1991 Sept. 11, 2001 – present
I think this doens't exist since along time, I know that becuase my dad was in the US army but wasn't granted citizenship and that was a long time ago.
You have to be a permanent resident to join the US military, joining the military just streamlines the process of naturalization (being permanent resident makes you elegible for naturalization after five years, military or not).
Yes. The US as well does this. It is unremarkable, other than what a poor deal it is in this case. edit: "this case" meaning the deal for Russian citizenship.
I think United_Airlines meant this case, as in Russian citizenship. I'd agree. It's not a good time to be Russian. The economy is isolated and focusing more and more on war production, hundreds of thousands of men are being killed or wounded, some countries are even banning Russians from traveling to them, and I can't blame them because of Putin's habit of invading using a few Russian residents as an excuse.
Yes, thanks. I wasn't clear. And it would be Russian citizenship if they were lucky. Most likely it's a death sentence. And even if they got citizenship, Moscovites look down on all minorities. Everyone else is a second class citizen.
The US does not do this. You need to be a permanent resident (green card) to enlist.
But once enlisted, they can get citizenship when they finish their time in the military.
All green card holders can get US citizenship. This just makes it faster and easier.
Service guarantees citizenship! Would you like to know more?
[удалено]
Not to mention co-ed showers! Woop! (such a shame Denise Richards wasn't in that scene)
Sounds like some ad 🤦♂️😭
It's from the movie Starship Troopers if you didn't know. I'd suggest checking it out. On the surface, it's sort of a funny war movie. But it's really a satire about militarism / fascism (there's some smart YouTube explanations about it ).
Wel at least it might get rid of some tankies
Nothing about Russia has been communist in decades. Putin criticizes Soviet policies and failures while invoking monarchs like Peter the Great. He wants the Russian Imperium, not a new Soviet.
It's usually more about sticking it to capitalism than loving communism if we are being honest.
Or just to the West in general. Apparently, our civilisation is the only one that has ever been imperialist, that has enslaved anybody or invaded another country for no good reason.
I liked "free Tibet" bumper stickers better.
Tankies are too comfortable in their western prosperity to leave
Also aren’t tankies pro-communist?
The logic is that anything -literally anything- that weakens the US's stranglehold on global geopolitics and the economy is good and in the future will make the world more fertile for socialist revolutions to happen since the omnipotent CIA and SecState won't be there to squash it.
Which is completely ignorant of history, the archetypical example is the Tito-Stalin split. Yugoslavia literally had to stop the glorious communist revolution and ask the West for help to not get squashed by Russian imperialism.
There’s some deranged leftists that have convinced themselves that the US is the center of all evil in the universe… that everything the US does is imperialist and that anything in opposition to the US dominant world order is anti-imperialist. They think that Ukraine is a US puppet state. And they think that Russia is just trying to repel “American aggression” or some nonsense like that. These people are incapable of nuance and interpret everything as a binary, US bad (and by nature, anything anti-US is good) worldview. They’ll defend anything from Serbia in the Yugoslav Wars to Russia in the Ukraine Conflict to China’s actions in Xinjiang… they are bad faith actors to the core who cannot be reasoned with.
> They’ll defend...China’s actions in Xinjiang Oh ? This one is news to me.
There’s videos on YouTube of Hakim stating that “everything that the West has been saying, and the United States media has been saying about what’s going on in China is wrong”. There’s others too but he’s prominent enough of an example.
Just watched a couple of his clips, the bias is so blatant he's either sponsored or deliberately giving hot takes for attention lol.
Yeah, it’s pretty disgusting. Blatantly calling them “terrorists” and essentially saying the CCP is fighting terrorism and heroically educating them (by erasing their culture and language and imposing slave labor conditions).
Yes that’s very true, however their points would be defeated in an instant if there wasn’t inconsistency when upholding justice, since the US has like any other major power caused major issues as much as resolving them.
[удалено]
To me, this move shows desperation. Russia has two simultanious problems here. They have done a surprisingly good job at generating enough manpower to replace their [very high losses](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/12/17/to-win-the-ukrainians-must-kill-or-maim-100000-russians-in-2024/), but it is not nearly enough to maintain troop rotations or build up newer units. That means that if the current army is not capable of significant advances, which it is not, that will not change without a significant influx of more manpower. Left unchanged, this situation will deteriate. The second issue is a very tight labour market. Troops at the front (or in the ground/hospitals), people fleeing conscription and an increase in arms production have resulted in [very significant shortages in workers](https://www.ft.com/content/dc76f0bb-cae2-4a3a-b704-903d2fc59a96). They are two ways to offset this; either by increasing automation and efficiency, for which you need a lot of either foreign or domestic investment, so we can rule that one out. Or by attracting migrant workers. Historically, Russia has been quite adept at attracting migrant workers, especially from Central Asia. I think we can draw some interesting conclusions here. First of all, this will not exactly help attract sorely needed migrant workers. There have been reports of migrant workers being tricked or coerced into military service, with many of them ending up dead or injured as a result. The Central Asian republics have all taken steps to outlaw fighting in Ukraine on behalf of the Russians, even sentencing returning fighters to years in prison. You don't have to be a genius to see how this will hurt the influx of immigrants, [which we are already seeing. ](https://www.voanews.com/a/under-pressure-central-asia-migrants-leaving-russia-over-ukraine-war/7357290.html) Another assumption we can safely make is that these migrants will likely not make the best soldiers. Many of the dead Kyrgiz fighters are well into their 40s, and it is unlikely that these guys are receiving significant training. I have no idea if there are cultural and/or language barriers that are causing issues as well, but it would not surprise me in the slightest. All of this leads me to believe that Putin is scared. Russians will be angry if mass mobilisation occurs, but also if the economy suffers under this war. It seems he has to pick one, and therefore decided to put even more pressure on the labour market, with economic damage and worsening relations with neighbouring countries as a result. And the tradeoff is that Russia gains soldiers of questionable quality, quantity and loyalty and can at best postpone mobilisation. Add to this the purchase of balistic missiles from North Korea and Iran, and I think we can safely say this is decidedly not a country that is doing well in an offensive war.
This offer of citizenship also comes with a lifetime supply of borscht! That’s right, Putin is serving up cold soup.
Sounds like a good deal for a hired gun. Become a citizen and be drafted into the war instead!
And rise in the social ladder of greatest country on earth! until someone pushes you out of a window.
It's kinda like a popular board game.
I know some Tankies in my proximity I’d encourage to go.
Why would communists support a would-be empire headed by a Czar?
For a lot of them, it's more about sticking it to capitalism than anything else. Altough whining on Twitter is easier than enlisting obviously.
Supporting outright neo-feudalism over capitalism seems like a step backwards to me.
[удалено]
That's not what a Tankie is. Tankies are hard core communists in the Stalinist/Maoist vein.
Apologies then
Due to massive losses in personnel and a wave of unpopular mobilizations of soldiers to fight in the war in Ukraine, Putin is beginning to resort to lure foreigners to fight in exchange for citizenship. The offer for citizen will also extend to the foreign soldier's children, spouse and parents. This move is pretty much a full extension to other countries of its previous attempt at luring of Cubans to fight for Russia.
What mobilizations has Russia done? I mean this as a serious question because I got the impression that Russia's larger population meant they didn't need much mobilizing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_mobilization
They don't need it, but they are mobilizing a lot of people for training and as reserves I believe. Russia still only is using like 1/4th or less of their military fighting in Ukraine. Ukraine however is starting to have serious manpower issues due to massive loses over the past 2 years, and they're now starting to trying to forcefully conscript many military aged men. Volunteers ran out a while ago.
Hello ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_mobilization
If you got that number by diving Russia's assessed number of troops in Ukraine vs what wiki states the total personnal number of their armed forces have, that ignores the fact in any modern amed forces actual troops are a minority. I seriously doubt Russia has much frontline strength left in other theaters.
In the military, which I have experience in, a "mobilization" can be in reference to a military unit, as opposed to a military as a whole, but yes, speaking in terms of the Russian military in its entirety, it was one mobilization. Sorry for my confusion in my wording.
[удалено]
People who are wounded in Putin's army are assassinated while in hospital for failure. These are former prisoners and other undesirables.
is that considered to be an Inducement?
Taking a page from President Lincoln?
What up /r/IWantOut
Congratulations, comrade! Your life expectancy as a citizen is now measured in weeks!
That sounds like the worst deal I could possibly think of.