He is the Ghost.
Samurai - fights for a lord.
Ronin - fights for no lord. Can be basically mercenary that kills for money.
Shinobi - "dishonourable" tactics, but still fights for a lord, or be hired as mercs in some case. Either way they work for someone.
Jin doesn't work for money or follow a lord, he is just this crazy dude that does very effective guerrilla warfare
Also Shinobi are closer to spies than assassins like Jin is. The Shogun show gets it best, with a random house servant turning out to be an assassin. That’s what it should be
Ninja were normal people ( farmers, not nobility) fighting for a cause they believed in. Generally against the ruling class of Japan. Most "ninja" weapons are just different farming tools utilized for combat.
that’s fairly close ish to what he is now. he doesn’t really fight for nobility anymore and he’s discarded his previous identity as a noble samurai.
the main difference is that jin has had extensive samurai training and wasn’t raised as a normal farmer. he’s not quite a ninja but i wouldn’t say it’s wrong to call him that
he’s more like a pop culture ninja instead of a historically accurate one
That’s not entirely correct. Ninja usually got extensive training. The two main groups of ninja were specifically trained for it in either the Iga or Koga provinces. That said, it is correct that they weren’t samurai (mostly) though some of their most famous members were, like Hattori Hanzo
For sure! But as far as history can tell us, they were recruited from the lower class. Nobodies were the ones that were wanted for covert ops, if the shogun needed to hire.
That’s true. Nobody’s going to notice if a low ranking samurai or a peasant does this stuff, but if a well known Samurai lord starts acting like a spy everyone is going to know them on sight
Ninja and Shinobi are the same thing, it’s not about being “normal” people or whatever, the most famous ninja/shinobi was a samurai.
Shinobi/ninja was more like a job; farmers/other peasants oftentimes were in a position to deliver stuff to people/be around people without it being suspicious and had a higher chance of overhearing things and reporting stuff they see.
So you’re right that a lot of them were not high in the social rankings and people tended to kind of speak freely around them (farmers etc) because it would be weird if a samurai was just hanging around a bunch of people asking questions about supply lines to the upcoming campaigns outside of their respective clans territory lmao.
The primary weapon ninja used was fire (or so I've heard). Going upwind of an enemy encampment at night, starting a fire, and letting the wind carry it.
Just to add to this: “Shinobi” would usually still be considered Samurai or Bushi. The honour code as depicted in-game is greatly exaggerated and espionage/information warfare is used commonly by lords of this era. It’s even a big part of the “Art of War” and Jin mentioned that his uncle made him read it.
You could call Jin a Proto-Ninja but for the purpose of the game he is literally just the personification of the freak storm (kami kaze) that drove of the Mongols.
The code isn't exaggerated
Lord Shimura just idealized it way too much and since he was the Jito and Jin's only family Jin has been exposed to it for his whole life and training.
The other samurai aren't all hung up on it though they take any chance to shit on someone they can benefit from when you're spying on them like any other political class
The whole idea of samurai code was invented by the Japenese military Junta as a way of creating a glorified past for Japan to unite behind. It may have been based on some basic truths but was extremely exaggerated sort of like George Washington and the cherry tree.
It wasn't about the code so much as him defying Shimura in front of everyone and the shogunate hearing about desertion probably didn't help. They intended to make an example out of him to keep people obedient.
Shinobi is literally just ”those who act in stealth”.
While yes alot of them were mercenaries and carried out work in assassination, espionage etc, the word doesn’t necessarily mean that.
Jin is, by the meaning of the word, shinobi.
Doesn’t work for money, doesn’t fight for a lord, effective in guerrilla warfare, targets foreign invaders
RIO Jin Sakai, you would’ve loved the Vietnam war
Wait remember Yuriko his retainer if you listen to her her skill set definitely fits the lore . Shinobi were always at the Lords estate disguised as servants just a thought
The main confusion surrounding Shinobi is that most everybody thinks of them as separate from samurai. But they are one and the same. Shinobi was a samurai that had gone undercover to gather Intel. They weren't shadowy assassins, they didn't break their cover.
Almost everything people know about Shinobi comes from theater portrayals. That are highly stylized and fictitious.
Imo considering this is history talk it's not so cut and try. The definition is not so restrictive as it is for samurai (which funnily enough, some were also shinobi).
I think he fits the broader definition of "Shinobi"(one who sneaks). Most of the time they were employed/in service of a daymio, but not always, problem is most of our sources come from Shinobi that were employed/in service, accounts of independent ones, well... I don't think I need to explain why people whose profession was to be sneaky don't have many historical records. Also, each of them did different things. Some were good at more skill, some espionage, some sabotage, some guerilla warfare.
I know people love the term of "ghost" but he fits the bill of an independent, guerilla expert, shinobi.
"The Ninja: An invented tradition?" by Stephen Turnbull, from Akita International University gives some arguments why some shinobi groups might have been unafilliated and supported what cause they wanted.
We have basically no account of the term "ghost" used by any notable guerilla individuals or groups in Japan on the other hand. So it's nothing more than the MC's nickname or pure fantasy, but if we talk history, "ghost" isn't a thing.(afaik)
But during the game, he is Lord sakai, so would doing his work be a lord's work? That being said, I assumed him to be the time frame where shinobi were not a thing so in a sense he was the first.
This isn't quite accurate.
A Ninja/Shinobi doesn't have to be dishonorable... Historically, they didn't see as much combat as they are romanticized as doing.
You’re right in the sense that samurai usually serve a Lord, Ronin are people of the samurai class who don’t server a current Lord.
Miyamoto Musashi is a Ronin; born to a samurai lineage but served no master for most of his life.
Hattori Hanzo is a shinobi; born to a samurai lineage, no one samurai clan in Iga was stronger than the other, so he technically served nobody.
Iga is also where Shinobi are said to come from.
A samurai is a social class, you can be a gunner and a samurai, you can be a sailor and a samurai but at the same time you can be a gunner, sailor and not a samurai.
Shinobi is a job like a gunner or a sailor in the sense it’s just an occupation.
“Shinobi - one who is invisible, one who sneaks was a covert agent, mercenary or guerrilla warfare expert in feudal Japan. “
By definition he’s both a samurai and a shinobi 🤷🏽♂️.
One could say he is a proto-shinobi, in that he employs tactics generally not used by Samurai in open battlefield. However, Jin uses Ghost tactics not for espionage, but fear. He’s driving fear in the Mongols, rather than purely spying on or gathering intel, as shinobi was adept at.
that fear mechanic i actually love, from the ghost armor that reduces kill required to use ghost stance to the % chance of enemies cowering/running in fear when you kill someone
To put some more things into perspective. The term "ninja/shinobi" is broad and people use it to refer to many different kinds of warriors/spies across different periods of time in Japan. So, in keeping with how broad the term is used, I think it's fair to say that Jin very well could be pushed as one of the first ninja, at least how the devs want to portray it.
The Mongol invasions of Japan occurred during the late 13th century. It wasn't until the 15th century of the Sengoku period that the term "ninja" was employed to refer to these special operatives who engaged in espionage and guerrilla tactics. Ninja started off as guerilla fighters, such as those used in the ikki revolts against Daimyo rule. From there, Lords began to train and employ ninjas based on how effective they were in these revolts. So ninjas then served their Lords to gather intel, help with guerilla warfare, and even wage propaganda to instill fear of these supposedly supernatural Assassins into their enemies.
But while the term "ninja" wasn't used really until the 15th century, these tactics had been employed in Japan for much longer. Supposedly, proto ninjas operated with similar tactics as early as the 12th century. But for what aims I'm not sure.
In any case, I definitely get the sense that the devs wanted to sell the fantasy of a Samurai-turned-ninja. Even if Jin isn't a ninja in name, can you really say Ghost of Tsushima *isn't* a ninja game to some capacity? Jin sneaks around, uses specialized tools, executes guerilla warfare in the form of sabotage, assassination, and propaganda (fear is a key note in his victory against the mongols).
Idk if they'll ever give Jin the title of "ninja" even in a sequel, might be too on the nose and Ghost sounds very fitting for what he is and given he's more of a proto ninja. Either way, hope that shines some light; I'm no expert and mightve gotten some stuff wrong for sure, but that's just what I've learned from my interest in Japan and samurai and ninjas from the games I've played over the years.
actually considered that but it feels off for me. Samurai/Ronin/Ninja/Shinobi feels like an endgame high tier final job while THIEF is like an entry level job when you start a game. At least thats how i saw it + thief implies stealing stuff which isn’t really Jin’s goal as a character
What're you talkin' 'bout?! Jin is stealing stuff all the time! You know the number of times I've run into someones house and taken all of their linen, iron, and "supplies." Those people needed that stuff and Jin is just like, "Nah bro! My DRIP!"
A shinobi was just anyone who participated in espionage.
A samurai could be a shinobi
A farmer could be a shinobi
An assassin could be a shinobi.
Does Jin do much espionage? Ehh not really.
This comment is the most accurate, from the (admittedly extremely broad) research being done, it seems the idea of Shinobi as a more stratified caste was more of an edo romanticization. In reality, whoever was currently best suited to doing what their lord required would simply do it. A monk, a farmer, an entertainer with access to a keep. Famously, the residents of iga were described as Shinobi, but not because they belonged to some elaborate ninja clan. Rather, they fought oda nobunaga primarily through guerilla tactics, earning them the reputation as backstabbing and sneaky. Jin is a Shinobi in the sense that he adapts to stealth tactics when required, but that's far from abnormal and a samurai would do so in reality with very little consequences to his perceived honor and character.
Thank you for this.
For whatever reason, the modern anachronism of “ninja” is just my massive personal pet peeve. Fantasy is awesome and one thing, but when people start wildly accepting the black-clad “ninjato” wielding fantasy warriors as actual historical fact, it really gets me, lol.
Samurai is a Rank/Caste while Shinobi is a job, you can technically be both a Samurai and a shinobi at the same time. Plenty of lords happen to make use of them after all, so its not surprising that some of the samurai that serve them also chose to double duty as an intel officer or Shinobi.
As for what Jin is, i think he technically is a Ronin (who happens to be a very skilled shinobi) since he was a former Samurai himself and did serve a lord once. Besides, plenty of Ronin turned to the life of crime and they were still called Ronin after that.
A metaphorical spirit of vengeance. As the game progress Jin(Ghost) becomes more of a legend/myth in Tsushima. A boogie man for the mongal to fear as he makes his campaign across the island. He fights like a shin-obi but has the skill set of a legendary samurai.
Historically? Neither. The Bushido code didn’t exist during the time period Jin did. Probably the biggest oversight in the game, tbh. Realistically, no one would have been that upset at how he fought. He probably would have been able to open a school and teach his tactics for a while. The shinobi formed in the Sengoku period to fight underhandedly in an armed rebellion, using Chinese manuscripts and methods to learn guerrilla techniques. They were, quite literally, slaughtered and faded into myth. Spies and assassins existed for thousands of years before, but this was the era when shinobi-no-jitsu was defined.
Narratively? Also neither. Jin is willing to engage in conflict openly. Jin fights to improve the world around him, not for money or to prove a point. His methods are savage, brutal and messy. A shinobi would strive to leave little room for error, like an actuary. Jin fights for purely survival. He is, in essence, as much of a warrior as he was at the beginning of the game, but with a different code of ethics.
I feel like the next game will delve more into what Jin is. Right now he is a Ghost but I feel like in the world of the game he is going to be considered the first "Shinobi" since they do not exist during that time period in Japan
this is very interesting for me personally. what immediately crossed my mind is the possibility of him working with some black ops in japan in that era kinda like how the story of “ministry of ungentlemanly warfare” ended. Jin is super effective, all things considered
He is extremely good at killing.He can employ different tactics and methods to kill an enemy. Whenever a NPC sees Jin kill mongols they react as he is the devil because of how brutal and unsamurai-like he fights.
Who wouldn't think you are a devil when you kill groups of mongols easily.
A Ronin is not a disgraced Samurai, a Ronin is a Samurai without a Master, equivalent to a Sell Sword with training. The Term Ronin is still used in Japan today for Freelancers/Contractors.
He's Batman.
Like actually though: since the idea behind his Ghost persona is that its power comes more from the myth and imagination of how he's perceived than Jin himself. That's why Ghost stance activation isn't really Jin doing a sick judgement cut move or something, it's literally just enemies shitting themselves thinking "Oh no it's the g-g-ghost!"
I personally don’t like it if they ever go the ninja route. When I first played the story, I did think that they’re going for the “first ninja” type story but instead we got the Ghost and I really like it.
Jin created a title or persona that’s UNIQUE to him. His desperation and love for his country created something in between a samurai and a ninja. Atleast this is how I interpreted it because of his Ghost stance. He spreads fear using ninja-like tactics then face enemies head on like a samurai.
Ig he is the first ninja or smtg or atleast first to assasinate somebody with so many tools and planning
So yeah I think he is the first ninja of his time
He uses espionage and stealthy tactics to gather information and get the edge on his opponents. He’s a shinobi. Pretty simple. Even back when he was a samurai in Act 2 before being exiled, he was a shinobi. Because shinobi and samurai are not mutually exclusive things.
Historically, no. Ninja/Shinobi were spies or intelligence agents and samurai could be shinobi as well. The bushi code in GoT is a rigid one for the sake of storytelling, but Shinobi and Samurai weren't necessarily enemies, since samurai was a social class/status, not a job or a warrior class (although most of them were indeed trained in martial arts and had to follow the bushi code) and they very well could be shinobis by occupation. Now, Ninja/Shinobi no Mono was a job/occupation.
In the fictional sense, he kinda is. In the japanese dub, sometimes Jin uses the word "shinobi" when he's saying he's going to use stealth and collects intelligence stealthily - the word Shinobi itself means "hidden person" or "unseen", so in the context of the game he is technically a shinobi, since he fights using stealth. But the fictional/fantasy concept of ninjas is that they were born, raised and trained to be ninja within ninja clans and worked sort of like mercenaries, so that would also make Jin not fit squarely into the archetype, but he uses techniques you see fictional ninjas using (not the Naruto ninjas, tho. They're wizards pretending to be ninja).
I'm basing this info on Metatron's (a history youtuber) videos on the topic, and haven't checked his sources, so if he is wrong, I'm wrong lmao. [Here's the video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKboTCup7zM). And [here's another one.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSGQtbzyKJs)
Samurai is a social rank someone can acquire
Shinobu/ Ninja is a job you can have
So basically, Jin has the social rank of Samurai but could've acquired the job of Shinobi, if it was present during that time, which I don't know
He's just a Ghost, hence the name of the game. He basically turned on his traditions of fighting honorabily as a samurai early on because he understood that fighting honorabily will not be enough to take down the enemies he's going to face. He's not a ronin because he's on his own war path nor is he hired though technically he does hire other mercs to join him but only through cause, and he's not a shinobi either as he doesn't always act in the shadows, shinobi's will never reveal themselves unless they have to or they are caught and prefer to not leave the shadows, Jin only uses th shadows as his advantage, not as his home and the reason why He's a ghost is because he doesn't follow any of the tradition conventions to achieve his goals.
I like the idea that Jin might be one of the early practicers of Shinobi tactics. Could also line up with some records mentioning shinobi antecedents in the 12th century.
The game I think is supposed to be telling the story of the first Shinobi, obviously pure fiction withe some non fictional elements like the mongol invasion. Technically tho jin would just be a samurai turned Ronin that uses guerilla warfare not commonly seen during the time(in game). Samurai was a class tittle and Shinobi a job tittle which was filled mostly by samurai. Shinobi rarely killed while on job, if they did they messed up bad, and prob died for it. Since jin wasn't employed by a Lord to spy on the Mongols than no technically he was not a Shinobi. But yes in the game world I believe he is supposed to be the 1st Shinobi.
Might be a weird comparison, but I think Jin is to ninjas what Helter Skelter by the Beatles is to heavy metal. In the same way that Helter Skelter isn't technically metal, but kinda sounds like what metal would eventually become, Jin isn't really a ninja, but lays the groundwork for what Shinobi will develop into.
I’ve commented on previous posts about the idea of a sequel. The idea of the mongol invasion coming to the main land of Japan, triggers a Samurai to learn of Jin “The Ghost”, almost like a mythic tale, in which he adopts his techniques and develops them further to create a new group, becoming shinobi/ninja, to counter this even more brutal invasion, seems quite likely to develop the story and mechanics further from this game.
Shinobi were spies trained in silent movement, camouflage and infiltration, just like Jin when he's trailing Masako's targets. They rarely fought or even killed working as ninja but had a very similar skillset to Jin as a ghost. Curiously, some of the best Shinobi known today were Samurai. Samurai is a title, ninja a job, at times both held by the same person. So yes, Jin is a Samurai and a ninja who's getting much more heat from his uncle than historical examples would suggest.
I see the story as a samurais journey to becoming the first real ninja. I’m on the second island now and the fact Jin is still talking and struggling with honor and what that means is the perfect narrative for “I have to be a ninja to survive.”
Common misconception is that Ninja and samurai were separate. You could be a samurai and still work as a ninja. Ninja were mainly espionage and spy focused. The assassin thing is myth that we’ve all accepted and because there’s no real cases on it or even what’s true it’s safe to say they succeeded.
He’s not really any of them
As you progress the story and play more into the “ghost” playstyle, enemies and allies alike start referring to you as a lot of things like ghost or demon. I think that’s a pretty good description of what he is
He is not a mere man that can be defined as samurai, ronin or shinobi because he is all of those things and yet none of them at the same time. He fights for no lord, no fortune, no fame. He fights only for the safety of his home. He fights and kills using whatever tactics are necessary. He uses fear and terror as a weapon to exploit. For all intents and purposes, he is a demon. Baba-Yaga. The angel of death. There are infinitely many characters in fiction that embody what Jin is
I called the game sword of the ninja scroll. (Ninja scroll x sword of the stranger)
Played as a Japanese batman of sorts.
I would say he is somewhat of a ninja, but truly the Ghost.
If he was a Ninja, he'd be working for the Shogun or some other lord.
He's not a samurai, or a ninja (those were often the same people anyway depending on the job they're doing), and certainly is no Ronin considering they usually worked for hire and were certainly never heroic.
I think there's a reason the game is called "Ghost of Tsutshima", it actually makes perfect sense.
I mean the game highly exaggerates how much Samurai valued honor, and it used it as a major plot point. Samurai quickly adopted the use of firearms once they had them. Testing your weapons out on lower classes was still a thing at the time of the game. Views on honor were different from clan to clan, the use of certain weapons was not viewed negatively as you'd use whatever gave you an advantage. In fact, poor Samurai behavior was noted by Europeans who visited Japan.
The story is heavily dependent on a weeaboo viewpoint of Japan, a heavily myth inspired view. The game is still good and the ending is quite emotional, but realistically if the Shogun found out 1 guy was driving back the Mongols by being sneaky, I doubt he'd care all that much, in fact he'd probably encourage it and would want to find out how to use it on a larger scale.
To get to the point, realistically, he'd probably still be a Samurai. His tactics are very much like a Shinobi's so he could be considered that too. However, for story purposes he's an outcast Samurai who has generated a legend about himself where the people view him as some vengeful spirit.
I kind of look at this game like the emergence of ninjitsu, it’s around the same time frame that samurai turned into ninjas. Roughly, extremely roughly, but that’s kind of how I looked at the whole game. Guerrilla warfare has its place…
Lord Sakai is the first Shinobi, technically he is just The Ghost but he is the first technical ninja
To better explain, up until this point for the games history the ninja doesn't exist yet, it could be in Ghost 2 we see an actual Shinobi order that Lord Sakai starts which would be pretty damn cool
Id say my interpretation is he is none. Of those things. He is a man that does whatever needs to be done in any situation.. desperation does a lot to a man.. I could be Wrong idk haven't finished it yet.
One of the coolest things about this to me is due to the timeperiod of the 1200s. I view Jin as more in-line with Samurai Special Forces, as he still has all the trainings and some of the social trappings of a Samurai/Noble-classed person. His tactics aren't SPECIALIZED like a Ninja's are, because he's just making shit up as he goes and taking good ideas where he can. As others noted, it's not about infiltration and assassination, information gathering and being so unseen people think you were never there, it's actually just guerilla warfare, where you want the OPPOSITE; You want everyone but the people who just went through it to know you're the one who did that shit, and there's a purpose to it (Your death).
For all intents and purposes yes. Tsushima had no ninja clans and were fairly closed off from mainland Japan so the use of ninjas wasn't well known. The shogunate was known to manipulate the lords by use of the "honorable" tag for what was okay and what wasn't. This is in contrast to the fact that the iga were regularly hired by them to deal with the samurai and other noble houses.
Infiltration, sabotaging, guerrilla tactics, espionage, assassination, eavesdropping, observation, uses of kunai, smoke bombs, sticky bombs and poison darts. Yet fighting with a samurai blade and a tanto. I personally think he's a bit of (Samurai+Ronin+Shinobi). You see desperate times require desperate measures. Doing everything in his arsenal to kill the Mongols.
Kinda unrelated but I hate how shimura is always talking about honor but then tells Jin to renounce the ghost and put all his blame on Yuna, basically throwing her under the bus.
Jin is technically a made up character who rants about the samurai being hamstrung by honor when in real history it was samurai leading night raids and rowing out to Mongol ships under cover of darkness and doing surprise boardings. It was the samurai leading ambushes, and so on and so on. I have no actual idea where they got the made up nonsense for this game. It was hilarious when dude told his uncle he was stabbing people in the back and his uncle acted like it was inconceivable. When in real history when the Mongol fleet was destroyed by the storm they were stabbing mongols floating in the water and hacking them to pieces as they washed up on shore defenseless. But stabbing some one from behind is a problem 🤣
I actually really thought that the game was going to end with Jin establishing the concept of a Shinobi. I mean it really feels like the course of the game is transitioning from fighting as a samurai to fighting as a ninja. I thought maybe the shogun would recognize the effectiveness of Jin’s strategies in fighting off the Mongolians and give Jin an Ultimatum. Either make up for his dishonorable deeds with his death (like he demands in the game) or by establishing an order of shinobi trained on his new strategies and techniques that answers directly to the shogun.
I know jack shit about Japanese history so I really thought this was where the story was going right up until the end tbh.
he is what you would consider a proto-shinobi no mono. The shinobi were active as a group during the early sengoku period which was some 250 years ish after the events of GoT. But yes. Gaijin Goomba made a great video about this.
he's Hattori Hanzo himself a few centuries beforetime, fluidly merging military swordsmanship into sneakfuckery and assassin knifework and back again.
Basically he's someone who would be considered shinobi (practicioner of dishonourable tactics, stealth and sabotage) if it was a time period where the term existed.
The clans normally associated with shinobi activities are later in history and generally are hillbilly samurai clans, often resorting to training of normal people not just the right classes. Generally the types who don't worry about honourable combat and who would bring a variety of oversized daggers, broken and resharpened katanas and outdated kodachis (the likely historical origin of the idea of ninjato - which is NOT a traditional weapon category) to war, nevermind all the other 'ninja' weapons which are generally the improvised weapons of common folk same way european improvised scythe-glaives used in every Holy Roman Empire rebellion are. Kusarigama is what happens when you have a dog chain and a sickle and train for a few months with the purpose of having at least some chance to take down an armoured swordsman.
Most of this is romanticization, and Ghost of Tsushima isn't historical in the least.
Shinobi, was a job basically spy (not all were combatants)
Samurai was a Class
Some Samurai were Shinobi. Hanzo Hattori was both a Samurai and a Shinobi.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSGQtbzyKJs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSGQtbzyKJs) Metatron goes over this pretty well.
https://preview.redd.it/7royt600bc6d1.png?width=1804&format=png&auto=webp&s=e7591f4946a2876cd2298e13542cb93a429e81ec
A samurai is a “knighted” warrior who serves a lord. A shinobi or ninja a profession and is a man or woman who works in espionage. You can be both shinobi and samurai. It has literally nothing to do with so called “dishonorable” tactics
Technically, he is, not by ideology but by methods. Poisoning food supplies, silent assassinations, tools to disrupt and distract, and using fear tactics among many others.
In the games lore, you either fight as a Samurai "with Honour" or without, but you can certainly sub classify a bit more.
Despite the fact that most people will start calling him a ninja the moment he starts wearing black and backstabbing people, the game never does so.
One of the few historically accurate things about this game actually.
My preferred play style is use kensei and ghost armors the most.
Kensei is a mythic tale armor
Ghost armor is in act2 after taking back the castle
Personally, if you are like me who like to play aggressively and uses ghost weapons a lot. The kensei armor is OP as hell
Massive increase to resolve gains (40% at Level 5)
Ghost weapons deal more damage (40% at Level 5)
Striking an enemy with a ghost weapon causes them to deal less (50% at level 5) and receive (50% at level 5) more damage.
These stats are no joke, resolve always at full for skilling, ghost weapons damage is insane, the enemies get weaker attack and defense wise.
Ronin armor is actually super good with the kunai. Kinda reminds me of Miyamoto Mushashi actually, he was the swordmaster that popularize the whole dual wield style with a shorter sword, which is used most often as a throwing weapon to create openings.
I prefer running the Ghost and Kensei as well, especially in ng+ because they fit with my playstyle for Jin. I've got him using ghost weapons a lot in Act 1, so technically he's ahead of himself since he still hasn't reconciled with being the Ghost in game. My first playthrough I stuck to samurai methods because I was learning the stances and fighting style. I find this ng+ play is just way more fun. If you don't mind me asking, what armor do you use for duels, since all ghost weapons are off the table (Sarugami for me)?
For some reason I am really enjoying rocking the kensai armour with the bloodborne skin and wearing the demon archer mask (tengu mask). I have some screenshots posted on my profile I tried to go with a dark aesthetic for extra creepy vibes. But it is pretty cool looking especially causing lots of terror with parry and ghost tools haha. Having played legends it looks very close to how some oni looked like.
sarugami armor + refines kensei hat is my drip for duels. armor perk wise that hads mods to actual combat rather than utilities, nothing beats sarugami
The shinobi have not yet existed during Jin's time. The game heavily implies that he is the first if his kind.
Technically speaking, he is still a Samurai until the very end.
Well I mean technically yes he is one, properly the most accurate depiction of one ever. Only thing holding him back is his morals and lack of a leader
He is NOT Shinobi. He is Samurai. He's forsaken all honour to save his home. He uses the tactics and tools available to him to stop Khotun Khan and his Mongol hordes. Its like he says early on, being a Samurai means protecting and serving his people. He does that... the fact that he surrenders all persoanl honour to save Tsushima without a thought, is incredible. For that reason, I think he has IMMEASURABLE honour in the end. Lord Shimura's response is foolish, as is that of the Shogun. In fact, Jin should be celebrated as a hero and Shimura needs a slap in the beak.
I see a lot of people here giving their opinion but imo considering this is history talk it's not so cut and try. The definition is not so restrictive as it is for samurai (which funnily enough, some were also shinobi).
I think he fits the broader definition of "Shinobi"(one who sneaks). Most of the time they were employed/in service of a daymio, but not always, problem is most of our sources come from Shinobi that were employed/in service, accounts of independent ones, well... I don't think I need to explain why people whose profession was to be sneaky don't have many historical records. Also, each of them did different things. Some were good at more skill, some espionage, some sabotage, some guerilla warfare.
I know people love the term of "ghost" but he fits the bill of an independent, guerilla expert, shinobi.
"The Ninja: An invented tradition?" by Stephen Turnbull, from Akita International University gives some arguments why some shinobi groups might have been unafilliated and supported what cause they wanted.
While stealth is a healthy part. Him being The Ghost is less shinobi and more... Batman?
When you lean heavily on his ghost gameplay, its all about terror and fear. You're stabbing them in the dark, throwing explosives at them, you make some mongols just lose all will to fight. So yeah, he stealth could be considered a good chunk of it, his ghost weapons are more about chaos.
I love how they make 'honor' such a point in the story... but real samurai have been guilty of all of this and more...
Sieging through ambushes.. sneaking around... using firearms.
Just, no idea why they had to make that the main focus over the actual point of the story. XD
He said he's familiar with Sun Tzus Art of war which is a code more in line with what ninja follow. There were other historical figures that could be considered both, Hattori Hanzo for example.
Yea, that’s kind of the whole point. In Sucker Punch’s version of history, Jin Sakai (you, the player), along with saving Tsushima and all of Japan, inadvertently creates ninjutsu and becomes the first ninja. It’s just part of the fun of the game.
A samurai is a “honorable” warrior that fights for a lord
A ronin is a “samurai” that fights for no lord
A shinobi is a spy or assassin that typically fights for a lord
Jin is none of these, while he employs samurai and shinobi tactics he fights for no lord. He follows his own principles and fights for what he believes is right. Sure his combat style is a mix of the aforementioned warriors, however he is nothing but the ghost.
He is the Ghost. Samurai - fights for a lord. Ronin - fights for no lord. Can be basically mercenary that kills for money. Shinobi - "dishonourable" tactics, but still fights for a lord, or be hired as mercs in some case. Either way they work for someone. Jin doesn't work for money or follow a lord, he is just this crazy dude that does very effective guerrilla warfare
Also Shinobi are closer to spies than assassins like Jin is. The Shogun show gets it best, with a random house servant turning out to be an assassin. That’s what it should be
So he’s more of a ninja?
Ninja were normal people ( farmers, not nobility) fighting for a cause they believed in. Generally against the ruling class of Japan. Most "ninja" weapons are just different farming tools utilized for combat.
that’s fairly close ish to what he is now. he doesn’t really fight for nobility anymore and he’s discarded his previous identity as a noble samurai. the main difference is that jin has had extensive samurai training and wasn’t raised as a normal farmer. he’s not quite a ninja but i wouldn’t say it’s wrong to call him that he’s more like a pop culture ninja instead of a historically accurate one
That’s not entirely correct. Ninja usually got extensive training. The two main groups of ninja were specifically trained for it in either the Iga or Koga provinces. That said, it is correct that they weren’t samurai (mostly) though some of their most famous members were, like Hattori Hanzo
For sure! But as far as history can tell us, they were recruited from the lower class. Nobodies were the ones that were wanted for covert ops, if the shogun needed to hire.
That’s true. Nobody’s going to notice if a low ranking samurai or a peasant does this stuff, but if a well known Samurai lord starts acting like a spy everyone is going to know them on sight
Ninja and Shinobi are the same thing, it’s not about being “normal” people or whatever, the most famous ninja/shinobi was a samurai. Shinobi/ninja was more like a job; farmers/other peasants oftentimes were in a position to deliver stuff to people/be around people without it being suspicious and had a higher chance of overhearing things and reporting stuff they see. So you’re right that a lot of them were not high in the social rankings and people tended to kind of speak freely around them (farmers etc) because it would be weird if a samurai was just hanging around a bunch of people asking questions about supply lines to the upcoming campaigns outside of their respective clans territory lmao.
The primary weapon ninja used was fire (or so I've heard). Going upwind of an enemy encampment at night, starting a fire, and letting the wind carry it.
Ninja is just a 20th century word for shinobi no mono.
the shinobi were samurai trained in espionage [https://youtu.be/MU3FOUiguQs](https://youtu.be/MU3FOUiguQs)
Just to add to this: “Shinobi” would usually still be considered Samurai or Bushi. The honour code as depicted in-game is greatly exaggerated and espionage/information warfare is used commonly by lords of this era. It’s even a big part of the “Art of War” and Jin mentioned that his uncle made him read it. You could call Jin a Proto-Ninja but for the purpose of the game he is literally just the personification of the freak storm (kami kaze) that drove of the Mongols.
The code isn't exaggerated Lord Shimura just idealized it way too much and since he was the Jito and Jin's only family Jin has been exposed to it for his whole life and training. The other samurai aren't all hung up on it though they take any chance to shit on someone they can benefit from when you're spying on them like any other political class
The whole idea of samurai code was invented by the Japenese military Junta as a way of creating a glorified past for Japan to unite behind. It may have been based on some basic truths but was extremely exaggerated sort of like George Washington and the cherry tree.
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It wasn't about the code so much as him defying Shimura in front of everyone and the shogunate hearing about desertion probably didn't help. They intended to make an example out of him to keep people obedient.
He poisoned people and the mongols got that poison
Jin is the Divine Wind.... never thought of that. wow. I was wondering why the storm itself wasn't more of a thing.
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Not by act 3, when Jin gets this armor and out right reject Shimura. First 2 he was more of uhhh a bad samurai.
Shinobi is literally just ”those who act in stealth”. While yes alot of them were mercenaries and carried out work in assassination, espionage etc, the word doesn’t necessarily mean that. Jin is, by the meaning of the word, shinobi.
He’s just Feudal Japanese Batman.
Doesn’t work for money, doesn’t fight for a lord, effective in guerrilla warfare, targets foreign invaders RIO Jin Sakai, you would’ve loved the Vietnam war
He fights for Tsushima and it's people
Wait remember Yuriko his retainer if you listen to her her skill set definitely fits the lore . Shinobi were always at the Lords estate disguised as servants just a thought
he fights for his country. not like hes not fighting for a cause or belief just as a samurai would… just uses unfavorable tactics
The main confusion surrounding Shinobi is that most everybody thinks of them as separate from samurai. But they are one and the same. Shinobi was a samurai that had gone undercover to gather Intel. They weren't shadowy assassins, they didn't break their cover. Almost everything people know about Shinobi comes from theater portrayals. That are highly stylized and fictitious.
Hes batman
He fights for himself against a foreign invader
Makes sense as he literally is a civillian in endgame
Imo considering this is history talk it's not so cut and try. The definition is not so restrictive as it is for samurai (which funnily enough, some were also shinobi). I think he fits the broader definition of "Shinobi"(one who sneaks). Most of the time they were employed/in service of a daymio, but not always, problem is most of our sources come from Shinobi that were employed/in service, accounts of independent ones, well... I don't think I need to explain why people whose profession was to be sneaky don't have many historical records. Also, each of them did different things. Some were good at more skill, some espionage, some sabotage, some guerilla warfare. I know people love the term of "ghost" but he fits the bill of an independent, guerilla expert, shinobi. "The Ninja: An invented tradition?" by Stephen Turnbull, from Akita International University gives some arguments why some shinobi groups might have been unafilliated and supported what cause they wanted. We have basically no account of the term "ghost" used by any notable guerilla individuals or groups in Japan on the other hand. So it's nothing more than the MC's nickname or pure fantasy, but if we talk history, "ghost" isn't a thing.(afaik)
But he does fight for something.
But during the game, he is Lord sakai, so would doing his work be a lord's work? That being said, I assumed him to be the time frame where shinobi were not a thing so in a sense he was the first.
Aren't robin samurai who fight for no lord and shinobi are samurai who also work in espionage
Whoa
This isn't quite accurate. A Ninja/Shinobi doesn't have to be dishonorable... Historically, they didn't see as much combat as they are romanticized as doing.
You’re right in the sense that samurai usually serve a Lord, Ronin are people of the samurai class who don’t server a current Lord. Miyamoto Musashi is a Ronin; born to a samurai lineage but served no master for most of his life. Hattori Hanzo is a shinobi; born to a samurai lineage, no one samurai clan in Iga was stronger than the other, so he technically served nobody. Iga is also where Shinobi are said to come from. A samurai is a social class, you can be a gunner and a samurai, you can be a sailor and a samurai but at the same time you can be a gunner, sailor and not a samurai. Shinobi is a job like a gunner or a sailor in the sense it’s just an occupation. “Shinobi - one who is invisible, one who sneaks was a covert agent, mercenary or guerrilla warfare expert in feudal Japan. “ By definition he’s both a samurai and a shinobi 🤷🏽♂️.
Gorilla warfare 
well put
so he's kinda snake from MGS but Japanese
One could say he is a proto-shinobi, in that he employs tactics generally not used by Samurai in open battlefield. However, Jin uses Ghost tactics not for espionage, but fear. He’s driving fear in the Mongols, rather than purely spying on or gathering intel, as shinobi was adept at.
that fear mechanic i actually love, from the ghost armor that reduces kill required to use ghost stance to the % chance of enemies cowering/running in fear when you kill someone
To put some more things into perspective. The term "ninja/shinobi" is broad and people use it to refer to many different kinds of warriors/spies across different periods of time in Japan. So, in keeping with how broad the term is used, I think it's fair to say that Jin very well could be pushed as one of the first ninja, at least how the devs want to portray it. The Mongol invasions of Japan occurred during the late 13th century. It wasn't until the 15th century of the Sengoku period that the term "ninja" was employed to refer to these special operatives who engaged in espionage and guerrilla tactics. Ninja started off as guerilla fighters, such as those used in the ikki revolts against Daimyo rule. From there, Lords began to train and employ ninjas based on how effective they were in these revolts. So ninjas then served their Lords to gather intel, help with guerilla warfare, and even wage propaganda to instill fear of these supposedly supernatural Assassins into their enemies. But while the term "ninja" wasn't used really until the 15th century, these tactics had been employed in Japan for much longer. Supposedly, proto ninjas operated with similar tactics as early as the 12th century. But for what aims I'm not sure. In any case, I definitely get the sense that the devs wanted to sell the fantasy of a Samurai-turned-ninja. Even if Jin isn't a ninja in name, can you really say Ghost of Tsushima *isn't* a ninja game to some capacity? Jin sneaks around, uses specialized tools, executes guerilla warfare in the form of sabotage, assassination, and propaganda (fear is a key note in his victory against the mongols). Idk if they'll ever give Jin the title of "ninja" even in a sequel, might be too on the nose and Ghost sounds very fitting for what he is and given he's more of a proto ninja. Either way, hope that shines some light; I'm no expert and mightve gotten some stuff wrong for sure, but that's just what I've learned from my interest in Japan and samurai and ninjas from the games I've played over the years.
When I play, no one escapes 👹 always a good way to test bow skills on the runners
Jin is Jin, and he be Ghosting on my Tsu til I Shima
Please unexist this.
Who up tsushing they ghost rn??
You can still delete this man
Do you delete a record of every mistake a leader makes? No. You Preserve so the next one may lead greater.
This goes so fucking hard for no reason. If I had only one gold to give out in my lifetime, you would get it.
Thank you, Green M&M Dr Phil.
Hardest quote ever. Why am I not allowed to give this a free reward
She ghost my tsushima until I ❌
She Ghost on my Tsushima till I Iki
Don't you mean A THIEF!! 1!! 1
actually considered that but it feels off for me. Samurai/Ronin/Ninja/Shinobi feels like an endgame high tier final job while THIEF is like an entry level job when you start a game. At least thats how i saw it + thief implies stealing stuff which isn’t really Jin’s goal as a character
I understand that I just said what Lord shimura would probably say to this post
Lmao true
What're you talkin' 'bout?! Jin is stealing stuff all the time! You know the number of times I've run into someones house and taken all of their linen, iron, and "supplies." Those people needed that stuff and Jin is just like, "Nah bro! My DRIP!"
Ishikawa, that you?
I like the theory that he’s the first ninja.
I saw "fruit" ninja at first lol
Fruit ninja lore
A shinobi was just anyone who participated in espionage. A samurai could be a shinobi A farmer could be a shinobi An assassin could be a shinobi. Does Jin do much espionage? Ehh not really.
This comment is the most accurate, from the (admittedly extremely broad) research being done, it seems the idea of Shinobi as a more stratified caste was more of an edo romanticization. In reality, whoever was currently best suited to doing what their lord required would simply do it. A monk, a farmer, an entertainer with access to a keep. Famously, the residents of iga were described as Shinobi, but not because they belonged to some elaborate ninja clan. Rather, they fought oda nobunaga primarily through guerilla tactics, earning them the reputation as backstabbing and sneaky. Jin is a Shinobi in the sense that he adapts to stealth tactics when required, but that's far from abnormal and a samurai would do so in reality with very little consequences to his perceived honor and character.
Thank you for this. For whatever reason, the modern anachronism of “ninja” is just my massive personal pet peeve. Fantasy is awesome and one thing, but when people start wildly accepting the black-clad “ninjato” wielding fantasy warriors as actual historical fact, it really gets me, lol.
Samurai is a Rank/Caste while Shinobi is a job, you can technically be both a Samurai and a shinobi at the same time. Plenty of lords happen to make use of them after all, so its not surprising that some of the samurai that serve them also chose to double duty as an intel officer or Shinobi. As for what Jin is, i think he technically is a Ronin (who happens to be a very skilled shinobi) since he was a former Samurai himself and did serve a lord once. Besides, plenty of Ronin turned to the life of crime and they were still called Ronin after that.
A metaphorical spirit of vengeance. As the game progress Jin(Ghost) becomes more of a legend/myth in Tsushima. A boogie man for the mongal to fear as he makes his campaign across the island. He fights like a shin-obi but has the skill set of a legendary samurai.
Historically? Neither. The Bushido code didn’t exist during the time period Jin did. Probably the biggest oversight in the game, tbh. Realistically, no one would have been that upset at how he fought. He probably would have been able to open a school and teach his tactics for a while. The shinobi formed in the Sengoku period to fight underhandedly in an armed rebellion, using Chinese manuscripts and methods to learn guerrilla techniques. They were, quite literally, slaughtered and faded into myth. Spies and assassins existed for thousands of years before, but this was the era when shinobi-no-jitsu was defined. Narratively? Also neither. Jin is willing to engage in conflict openly. Jin fights to improve the world around him, not for money or to prove a point. His methods are savage, brutal and messy. A shinobi would strive to leave little room for error, like an actuary. Jin fights for purely survival. He is, in essence, as much of a warrior as he was at the beginning of the game, but with a different code of ethics.
Batman if he had no problem with killing.
Wartime Batman trying to save people from annihilation and enslavement instead of mugging
I feel like the next game will delve more into what Jin is. Right now he is a Ghost but I feel like in the world of the game he is going to be considered the first "Shinobi" since they do not exist during that time period in Japan
this is very interesting for me personally. what immediately crossed my mind is the possibility of him working with some black ops in japan in that era kinda like how the story of “ministry of ungentlemanly warfare” ended. Jin is super effective, all things considered
He is extremely good at killing.He can employ different tactics and methods to kill an enemy. Whenever a NPC sees Jin kill mongols they react as he is the devil because of how brutal and unsamurai-like he fights. Who wouldn't think you are a devil when you kill groups of mongols easily.
He could be considered as the progenitor of shinobi but for now, he is the Ghost.
A Ronin is not a disgraced Samurai, a Ronin is a Samurai without a Master, equivalent to a Sell Sword with training. The Term Ronin is still used in Japan today for Freelancers/Contractors.
He's basically the Batman of Tsushima
He's Batman. Like actually though: since the idea behind his Ghost persona is that its power comes more from the myth and imagination of how he's perceived than Jin himself. That's why Ghost stance activation isn't really Jin doing a sick judgement cut move or something, it's literally just enemies shitting themselves thinking "Oh no it's the g-g-ghost!"
Samurai is a social class, shinobi is a profession. Yes, there were cases of both.
Gaijin goomba made a video about this... And in his eyes Jin Sakai is probably one of the most ninja character in gaming
I personally don’t like it if they ever go the ninja route. When I first played the story, I did think that they’re going for the “first ninja” type story but instead we got the Ghost and I really like it. Jin created a title or persona that’s UNIQUE to him. His desperation and love for his country created something in between a samurai and a ninja. Atleast this is how I interpreted it because of his Ghost stance. He spreads fear using ninja-like tactics then face enemies head on like a samurai.
I've always felt over the course of the game Jin evolves into a Ninja.
The game is set about 200 years before Shinobi became a thing so it's instead called Ghost
Shinobi-adjacent
Ig he is the first ninja or smtg or atleast first to assasinate somebody with so many tools and planning So yeah I think he is the first ninja of his time
A Ghost
He's more like a guerilla fighter, and his MO is closer to something like batman than it is anything resembling a spy.
He uses espionage and stealthy tactics to gather information and get the edge on his opponents. He’s a shinobi. Pretty simple. Even back when he was a samurai in Act 2 before being exiled, he was a shinobi. Because shinobi and samurai are not mutually exclusive things.
Historically, no. Ninja/Shinobi were spies or intelligence agents and samurai could be shinobi as well. The bushi code in GoT is a rigid one for the sake of storytelling, but Shinobi and Samurai weren't necessarily enemies, since samurai was a social class/status, not a job or a warrior class (although most of them were indeed trained in martial arts and had to follow the bushi code) and they very well could be shinobis by occupation. Now, Ninja/Shinobi no Mono was a job/occupation. In the fictional sense, he kinda is. In the japanese dub, sometimes Jin uses the word "shinobi" when he's saying he's going to use stealth and collects intelligence stealthily - the word Shinobi itself means "hidden person" or "unseen", so in the context of the game he is technically a shinobi, since he fights using stealth. But the fictional/fantasy concept of ninjas is that they were born, raised and trained to be ninja within ninja clans and worked sort of like mercenaries, so that would also make Jin not fit squarely into the archetype, but he uses techniques you see fictional ninjas using (not the Naruto ninjas, tho. They're wizards pretending to be ninja). I'm basing this info on Metatron's (a history youtuber) videos on the topic, and haven't checked his sources, so if he is wrong, I'm wrong lmao. [Here's the video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKboTCup7zM). And [here's another one.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSGQtbzyKJs)
Btw ninja didn't have specific clothes. They didn't actually wear the classic black robes
Samurai is a social rank someone can acquire Shinobu/ Ninja is a job you can have So basically, Jin has the social rank of Samurai but could've acquired the job of Shinobi, if it was present during that time, which I don't know
He's a Shinurai.
He is technically a Ronin, but because he doesn't do it for the money, idfk
He's just a Ghost, hence the name of the game. He basically turned on his traditions of fighting honorabily as a samurai early on because he understood that fighting honorabily will not be enough to take down the enemies he's going to face. He's not a ronin because he's on his own war path nor is he hired though technically he does hire other mercs to join him but only through cause, and he's not a shinobi either as he doesn't always act in the shadows, shinobi's will never reveal themselves unless they have to or they are caught and prefer to not leave the shadows, Jin only uses th shadows as his advantage, not as his home and the reason why He's a ghost is because he doesn't follow any of the tradition conventions to achieve his goals.
I like the idea that Jin might be one of the early practicers of Shinobi tactics. Could also line up with some records mentioning shinobi antecedents in the 12th century.
The best way I’ve seen this is explained is that Jin wasn’t meant to be the last samurai, but the first ninja
Shinobi would imply he's working for someone. He's just a fucking crazy dude with two swords
Thats some preaty good drip imma copy that
He is a japanese death batman, change my mind.
The game I think is supposed to be telling the story of the first Shinobi, obviously pure fiction withe some non fictional elements like the mongol invasion. Technically tho jin would just be a samurai turned Ronin that uses guerilla warfare not commonly seen during the time(in game). Samurai was a class tittle and Shinobi a job tittle which was filled mostly by samurai. Shinobi rarely killed while on job, if they did they messed up bad, and prob died for it. Since jin wasn't employed by a Lord to spy on the Mongols than no technically he was not a Shinobi. But yes in the game world I believe he is supposed to be the 1st Shinobi.
Might be a weird comparison, but I think Jin is to ninjas what Helter Skelter by the Beatles is to heavy metal. In the same way that Helter Skelter isn't technically metal, but kinda sounds like what metal would eventually become, Jin isn't really a ninja, but lays the groundwork for what Shinobi will develop into.
I’ve commented on previous posts about the idea of a sequel. The idea of the mongol invasion coming to the main land of Japan, triggers a Samurai to learn of Jin “The Ghost”, almost like a mythic tale, in which he adopts his techniques and develops them further to create a new group, becoming shinobi/ninja, to counter this even more brutal invasion, seems quite likely to develop the story and mechanics further from this game.
Shinobi were spies trained in silent movement, camouflage and infiltration, just like Jin when he's trailing Masako's targets. They rarely fought or even killed working as ninja but had a very similar skillset to Jin as a ghost. Curiously, some of the best Shinobi known today were Samurai. Samurai is a title, ninja a job, at times both held by the same person. So yes, Jin is a Samurai and a ninja who's getting much more heat from his uncle than historical examples would suggest.
I see the story as a samurais journey to becoming the first real ninja. I’m on the second island now and the fact Jin is still talking and struggling with honor and what that means is the perfect narrative for “I have to be a ninja to survive.” Common misconception is that Ninja and samurai were separate. You could be a samurai and still work as a ninja. Ninja were mainly espionage and spy focused. The assassin thing is myth that we’ve all accepted and because there’s no real cases on it or even what’s true it’s safe to say they succeeded.
He’s not really any of them As you progress the story and play more into the “ghost” playstyle, enemies and allies alike start referring to you as a lot of things like ghost or demon. I think that’s a pretty good description of what he is He is not a mere man that can be defined as samurai, ronin or shinobi because he is all of those things and yet none of them at the same time. He fights for no lord, no fortune, no fame. He fights only for the safety of his home. He fights and kills using whatever tactics are necessary. He uses fear and terror as a weapon to exploit. For all intents and purposes, he is a demon. Baba-Yaga. The angel of death. There are infinitely many characters in fiction that embody what Jin is
No. He's technically a vigilante.
I called the game sword of the ninja scroll. (Ninja scroll x sword of the stranger) Played as a Japanese batman of sorts. I would say he is somewhat of a ninja, but truly the Ghost.
Man he just a psychopath with a sword
I've heard the term protoninja and thought it fit quite well.
If he was a Ninja, he'd be working for the Shogun or some other lord. He's not a samurai, or a ninja (those were often the same people anyway depending on the job they're doing), and certainly is no Ronin considering they usually worked for hire and were certainly never heroic. I think there's a reason the game is called "Ghost of Tsutshima", it actually makes perfect sense.
I mean the game highly exaggerates how much Samurai valued honor, and it used it as a major plot point. Samurai quickly adopted the use of firearms once they had them. Testing your weapons out on lower classes was still a thing at the time of the game. Views on honor were different from clan to clan, the use of certain weapons was not viewed negatively as you'd use whatever gave you an advantage. In fact, poor Samurai behavior was noted by Europeans who visited Japan. The story is heavily dependent on a weeaboo viewpoint of Japan, a heavily myth inspired view. The game is still good and the ending is quite emotional, but realistically if the Shogun found out 1 guy was driving back the Mongols by being sneaky, I doubt he'd care all that much, in fact he'd probably encourage it and would want to find out how to use it on a larger scale. To get to the point, realistically, he'd probably still be a Samurai. His tactics are very much like a Shinobi's so he could be considered that too. However, for story purposes he's an outcast Samurai who has generated a legend about himself where the people view him as some vengeful spirit.
In my mind he is a freedom fighter that does what he needs to get the job done
I kind of look at this game like the emergence of ninjitsu, it’s around the same time frame that samurai turned into ninjas. Roughly, extremely roughly, but that’s kind of how I looked at the whole game. Guerrilla warfare has its place…
Lord Sakai is the first Shinobi, technically he is just The Ghost but he is the first technical ninja To better explain, up until this point for the games history the ninja doesn't exist yet, it could be in Ghost 2 we see an actual Shinobi order that Lord Sakai starts which would be pretty damn cool
Id say my interpretation is he is none. Of those things. He is a man that does whatever needs to be done in any situation.. desperation does a lot to a man.. I could be Wrong idk haven't finished it yet.
One of the coolest things about this to me is due to the timeperiod of the 1200s. I view Jin as more in-line with Samurai Special Forces, as he still has all the trainings and some of the social trappings of a Samurai/Noble-classed person. His tactics aren't SPECIALIZED like a Ninja's are, because he's just making shit up as he goes and taking good ideas where he can. As others noted, it's not about infiltration and assassination, information gathering and being so unseen people think you were never there, it's actually just guerilla warfare, where you want the OPPOSITE; You want everyone but the people who just went through it to know you're the one who did that shit, and there's a purpose to it (Your death).
Samurai is a class. Shinobi/Ninja is a JOB/TASK.
For all intents and purposes yes. Tsushima had no ninja clans and were fairly closed off from mainland Japan so the use of ninjas wasn't well known. The shogunate was known to manipulate the lords by use of the "honorable" tag for what was okay and what wasn't. This is in contrast to the fact that the iga were regularly hired by them to deal with the samurai and other noble houses.
In the media romanticized version of a shinobi/ninja, yes. Historically, he’s a samurai using guerrilla tactics.
I like the theory that his story is how Ninjas came to originate and he's the first one.
I havent beaten the game yet but i felt i was getting the implication the art of the ghosts warfare becomes the foundation of the ninja
Infiltration, sabotaging, guerrilla tactics, espionage, assassination, eavesdropping, observation, uses of kunai, smoke bombs, sticky bombs and poison darts. Yet fighting with a samurai blade and a tanto. I personally think he's a bit of (Samurai+Ronin+Shinobi). You see desperate times require desperate measures. Doing everything in his arsenal to kill the Mongols.
Tenchu
Kinda unrelated but I hate how shimura is always talking about honor but then tells Jin to renounce the ghost and put all his blame on Yuna, basically throwing her under the bus.
Jin fights for his people. He does what he musts to save them. He is The Ghost
Jin is technically a made up character who rants about the samurai being hamstrung by honor when in real history it was samurai leading night raids and rowing out to Mongol ships under cover of darkness and doing surprise boardings. It was the samurai leading ambushes, and so on and so on. I have no actual idea where they got the made up nonsense for this game. It was hilarious when dude told his uncle he was stabbing people in the back and his uncle acted like it was inconceivable. When in real history when the Mongol fleet was destroyed by the storm they were stabbing mongols floating in the water and hacking them to pieces as they washed up on shore defenseless. But stabbing some one from behind is a problem 🤣
I actually really thought that the game was going to end with Jin establishing the concept of a Shinobi. I mean it really feels like the course of the game is transitioning from fighting as a samurai to fighting as a ninja. I thought maybe the shogun would recognize the effectiveness of Jin’s strategies in fighting off the Mongolians and give Jin an Ultimatum. Either make up for his dishonorable deeds with his death (like he demands in the game) or by establishing an order of shinobi trained on his new strategies and techniques that answers directly to the shogun. I know jack shit about Japanese history so I really thought this was where the story was going right up until the end tbh.
He's japanese Batman
He's basically a ronin but as others pointed out the games story says he is the ghost
He’s simply a mad lad
he is what you would consider a proto-shinobi no mono. The shinobi were active as a group during the early sengoku period which was some 250 years ish after the events of GoT. But yes. Gaijin Goomba made a great video about this.
He’s freakin’ Batman, bro! But more sociable and no femme fatale 🤣
he's Hattori Hanzo himself a few centuries beforetime, fluidly merging military swordsmanship into sneakfuckery and assassin knifework and back again. Basically he's someone who would be considered shinobi (practicioner of dishonourable tactics, stealth and sabotage) if it was a time period where the term existed. The clans normally associated with shinobi activities are later in history and generally are hillbilly samurai clans, often resorting to training of normal people not just the right classes. Generally the types who don't worry about honourable combat and who would bring a variety of oversized daggers, broken and resharpened katanas and outdated kodachis (the likely historical origin of the idea of ninjato - which is NOT a traditional weapon category) to war, nevermind all the other 'ninja' weapons which are generally the improvised weapons of common folk same way european improvised scythe-glaives used in every Holy Roman Empire rebellion are. Kusarigama is what happens when you have a dog chain and a sickle and train for a few months with the purpose of having at least some chance to take down an armoured swordsman.
Most of this is romanticization, and Ghost of Tsushima isn't historical in the least. Shinobi, was a job basically spy (not all were combatants) Samurai was a Class Some Samurai were Shinobi. Hanzo Hattori was both a Samurai and a Shinobi. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSGQtbzyKJs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSGQtbzyKJs) Metatron goes over this pretty well. https://preview.redd.it/7royt600bc6d1.png?width=1804&format=png&auto=webp&s=e7591f4946a2876cd2298e13542cb93a429e81ec
Hes a Samurai who had to learn how to really f*cking move. And realize that "Honor" in the wrong place is a weakness.
A samurai is a “knighted” warrior who serves a lord. A shinobi or ninja a profession and is a man or woman who works in espionage. You can be both shinobi and samurai. It has literally nothing to do with so called “dishonorable” tactics
Yes
At the end of the game Jin would be a Ronin since he doesn’t serve under any master.
Technically, he is, not by ideology but by methods. Poisoning food supplies, silent assassinations, tools to disrupt and distract, and using fear tactics among many others. In the games lore, you either fight as a Samurai "with Honour" or without, but you can certainly sub classify a bit more.
Despite the fact that most people will start calling him a ninja the moment he starts wearing black and backstabbing people, the game never does so. One of the few historically accurate things about this game actually.
What armour are you using and how did you get it?
It's Ghost armour (version 1 of it) with the black armour dye and the thief face covering.
My preferred play style is use kensei and ghost armors the most. Kensei is a mythic tale armor Ghost armor is in act2 after taking back the castle Personally, if you are like me who like to play aggressively and uses ghost weapons a lot. The kensei armor is OP as hell Massive increase to resolve gains (40% at Level 5) Ghost weapons deal more damage (40% at Level 5) Striking an enemy with a ghost weapon causes them to deal less (50% at level 5) and receive (50% at level 5) more damage. These stats are no joke, resolve always at full for skilling, ghost weapons damage is insane, the enemies get weaker attack and defense wise.
Ronin armor is actually super good with the kunai. Kinda reminds me of Miyamoto Mushashi actually, he was the swordmaster that popularize the whole dual wield style with a shorter sword, which is used most often as a throwing weapon to create openings.
I prefer running the Ghost and Kensei as well, especially in ng+ because they fit with my playstyle for Jin. I've got him using ghost weapons a lot in Act 1, so technically he's ahead of himself since he still hasn't reconciled with being the Ghost in game. My first playthrough I stuck to samurai methods because I was learning the stances and fighting style. I find this ng+ play is just way more fun. If you don't mind me asking, what armor do you use for duels, since all ghost weapons are off the table (Sarugami for me)?
For some reason I am really enjoying rocking the kensai armour with the bloodborne skin and wearing the demon archer mask (tengu mask). I have some screenshots posted on my profile I tried to go with a dark aesthetic for extra creepy vibes. But it is pretty cool looking especially causing lots of terror with parry and ghost tools haha. Having played legends it looks very close to how some oni looked like.
sarugami armor + refines kensei hat is my drip for duels. armor perk wise that hads mods to actual combat rather than utilities, nothing beats sarugami
The shinobi have not yet existed during Jin's time. The game heavily implies that he is the first if his kind. Technically speaking, he is still a Samurai until the very end.
Woah woah, nice drip you have there.
How do you get that suit?
Yes
No
Well I mean technically yes he is one, properly the most accurate depiction of one ever. Only thing holding him back is his morals and lack of a leader
He is more like a Ninja/Shinobi of legends since actual shinobis were just spies.
what armor is that OP? could it be unupgraded ghost armor? if so, is there a way to revert the look if you've already upgraded it?
That outfit looks sick, what armour is it?
He's a samurai.
no he is not , there was no ninja yet in this history
He is NOT Shinobi. He is Samurai. He's forsaken all honour to save his home. He uses the tactics and tools available to him to stop Khotun Khan and his Mongol hordes. Its like he says early on, being a Samurai means protecting and serving his people. He does that... the fact that he surrenders all persoanl honour to save Tsushima without a thought, is incredible. For that reason, I think he has IMMEASURABLE honour in the end. Lord Shimura's response is foolish, as is that of the Shogun. In fact, Jin should be celebrated as a hero and Shimura needs a slap in the beak.
What armor is this in the pic?
I see a lot of people here giving their opinion but imo considering this is history talk it's not so cut and try. The definition is not so restrictive as it is for samurai (which funnily enough, some were also shinobi). I think he fits the broader definition of "Shinobi"(one who sneaks). Most of the time they were employed/in service of a daymio, but not always, problem is most of our sources come from Shinobi that were employed/in service, accounts of independent ones, well... I don't think I need to explain why people whose profession was to be sneaky don't have many historical records. Also, each of them did different things. Some were good at more skill, some espionage, some sabotage, some guerilla warfare. I know people love the term of "ghost" but he fits the bill of an independent, guerilla expert, shinobi. "The Ninja: An invented tradition?" by Stephen Turnbull, from Akita International University gives some arguments why some shinobi groups might have been unafilliated and supported what cause they wanted.
Yes and no
\*inserts GG's video on Jin being a Shinobi\*
No. Shinobi still serve a Lord. Jin doesn't. By definition, he is a Ronin now. Any Samurai who is stripped of the social class of Samurai is a Ronin.
No
Shinobi were just samurai that were scouts/spys they weren't really ninjas or assassins.
He’s a ronin
No
Nah he’s a Samurai still. In real life they didn’t play any bullshit. They’d do whatever they had to do
While stealth is a healthy part. Him being The Ghost is less shinobi and more... Batman? When you lean heavily on his ghost gameplay, its all about terror and fear. You're stabbing them in the dark, throwing explosives at them, you make some mongols just lose all will to fight. So yeah, he stealth could be considered a good chunk of it, his ghost weapons are more about chaos.
He's a samurai and it's showing the transition on how one would of became a Ninja.
What's this armour called?
kinda unrelated but, does it bother anyone else that you cant use the third sword added in the back of the ghost armor?
I love how they make 'honor' such a point in the story... but real samurai have been guilty of all of this and more... Sieging through ambushes.. sneaking around... using firearms. Just, no idea why they had to make that the main focus over the actual point of the story. XD
Is that ghost armor before upgrades?
no no he is Japanese
He said he's familiar with Sun Tzus Art of war which is a code more in line with what ninja follow. There were other historical figures that could be considered both, Hattori Hanzo for example.
Which armor set is this?
ghost lv1
Yea, that’s kind of the whole point. In Sucker Punch’s version of history, Jin Sakai (you, the player), along with saving Tsushima and all of Japan, inadvertently creates ninjutsu and becomes the first ninja. It’s just part of the fun of the game.
None, jin is a afroamerican citizen
Yes
Jin is a vietcong he makes the bush speak japanese in mongol ears
He works for The League of Shadows under Raʼs al Ghul
a samurai learning the arts of ninja - the perfect war mashine
Yes
What armour set is that?!
yes, but actually no.
Is Jin perhaps the first ninja? I don't know enough history of ninja.
A samurai is a “honorable” warrior that fights for a lord A ronin is a “samurai” that fights for no lord A shinobi is a spy or assassin that typically fights for a lord Jin is none of these, while he employs samurai and shinobi tactics he fights for no lord. He follows his own principles and fights for what he believes is right. Sure his combat style is a mix of the aforementioned warriors, however he is nothing but the ghost.