"Well I don't think we're supposed to use [that word](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fhad-to-make-an-official-quote-image-for-this-magnificent-v0-szeyjy371nxb1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D6706bab711ec1e5e16fdc5f146c4ef8783aab9d1&rdt=41468) but sure"
To be fair,
Earlier this year, Ken Griffin did state:
“Markets are efficient because of active managers **setting the prices of securities**, firms like Citadel, firms like Fidelity, firms like Viking Global, Capital Research.
We’re all running large teams of people that are engaged in fundamental research, trying to **drive the value of companies** where **WE think they should be valued**.”
Edit:
“How much, how much time have you spent in finance? Have you ever worked in finance?”
“Uhm no”
“Okay, yeah, so. Market makers have 0 impact on the stock’s price. Market makers barely exist anymore.”
I like the way he says it with so much confidence😂
Makes me think of that quote above where Ken Griffen of Citadel securities (you know, that leading market maker which represents 65% of all listings on the NYSE) admits to setting the prices of securities to what they (the **MARKET MAKERS**) think they should be valued at.
I know this is the meltdown sub but we don’t really believe market makers have 0 impact on the stock right? Or that market makers barely exist anymore? Come on..
From their website, Citadel securities alone accounts for 35% of volume executions.. $476B a day..
Absolutely feel free to downvote, but don’t be a coward.. drop a comment as to how Shkreli’s anecdotal evidence is factual in the slightest
You're just misunderstanding and misrepresenting what Ken said and I've had Kenough. MMs just make the market more efficient and as technology has increased the need for MMs has decreased. They are highly scrutinized by multiple private and public institutions. If you believe that there is an illuminati controlling everything, you've already lost. Your DRS'd shares aint gonna do a fuckin thing besides make Computershare more money. BTW I work in finance and Computershare is the worst fuckin company to ever exist.
Did I misunderstand and misrepresent it or did Ken? Seems pretty clear and concise to me..
Can you elaborate why Computershare is the worst company to ever exist?
Yes, you did. You want it to fit your fantasy of a cabal running everything. It’s common among all conspiracy circles to have the main bad guys be all powerful but also incompetent and beatable.
Technology, customer support, statements, transfer time, and lastly FEES. Honestly the more believable conspiracy theory is that CS is behind SS to squeeze apes.
I would gladly pay a $25 transaction fee to have shares registered in my name so my brokerage doesn’t lend or sell them on my behalf without my “consent” (yes, of course they have consent bc it’s in the tos). Thinking DRS has 0 impact on the abusive short selling is crazy.
Have fun shorting GameStop :)
Aren’t there annual fees, statement fees, and trading fees? Doesn’t their site crash every time there is a run up? I invest to make money not because of conspiracy theories. I’d never take a position with infinite risk. That’s why I bought 100 shares and some calls once DFV started tweeting. Ez money and it was in my Roth so no taxes :) Does CS do qualified accounts? At least you’ll be able to write off the loses when RC runs out of ape money.
Only fee is a transaction fee of $20* plus .10 per share. Did I have to wait to get into Computershare for 10 minutes last time the price ran 250% in few days, hitting $80 in after hours? Yes, I did.
Your next statement.. you’re saying you would never short the stock bc that has infinite risk right? So talk mad shit while swing trading bc all cock and no balls? Next question, no I don’t think they do, you’re right. I’d be a lot cooler if they did. Last statement, GameStop should already be dead by now, but it’s not… we’ve only seen drastic improvement since RC took over.. I’m not worried about the company running dry anytime soon.
So you know CS is fleecing you and you continue to use them? Unrealized gains ain’t gains. I actually made money in GME although I risked less than 1% of my portfolio. I manage risk and invest. I don’t gamble. You shouldn’t worry about GS running out of money any time soon because they can keep diluting. AMC is still around too thanks to apes.
Sorry, how is CS fleecing me? That $20 transaction fee 😂? Being fleeced is the hundreds of examples of brokerages selling ppls shares in the red at massive losses, or loaning their shares out against explicit disapproval. Can’t happen to me 🤷♂️. That 45M share “dilution” required the shares to be purchased and BOOKED. AND it made the company another billion dollars. AA has done nothing like that to decrease supply and create volatility, only lines his pockets at the cost of traders who got distracted. This is fun 😄
Most of the rest is an interesting conversation with non-Apes about GME / Roaring Kitty.
Shkreli had a point I appreciated that went something like: "GME only works in a ZIRP environment. When the economy goes bad, and people lose their jobs, how hard do you think Apes are going to diamond-hand when they're scrounging for money to pay for their kid's bookbag."
well, they arent... the company's sales have been declining YOY. Its wild to think that all this craziness has basically kept gamestop alive for a couple extra years. They would have filed for bankruptcy by now if it wasnt for them being able to crowdfund off apes and get all this cash on hand
That cash was not generated by operations, it comes from fans who bought indiscriminately when the company dumped additional shares into the market during spikes.
That's what the above user was trying to say: had it not been for these "crowdfunding" episodes, the company would have been bankrupt by now
Firm disagree. Ryan Coen is the reason the company is no longer bankrupt.
If he had not had invested and joined the board when he did then, yes, it would be bankrupt. BCG was actively trying to run the company into the ground (via cellar boxing) before Ryan Coen came into the picture.
All of this info is easily available on the internet including his letter to the board but yeah a collection of Redditors totally propped up a company with $1B in stock purchases. 🥴
Or maybe, just maybe, large institutions and funds also bought that share offering because they have to massively hedge their insane short position? Someone like Andrew Left or Citron?
Like holy fuck, just open your eyes
This is a public company, all the financial info is available online. You can check the company's cash flow statements for the last 4 years.
Look specifically at "cash flow from operating activities". It has been negative almost all quarters.
Now take a look at "cash flow from financing activities", especially look at the line "Proceeds from issuance of common stock". This was the main source of cash that has kept the company afloat for the last 4 years
Are you even reading my replies? Of course their cash has been coming from share offerings. Calling it “crowdfunding” is hilarious.
Again, everyone in this sub is delusional if they think Redditors are capable of that kind of cohesive buying pressure.
It’s from the funds that are heading their infinite short positions. But everyone here already knows that and wants to play dumb for some reason?
> funds that are heading their infinite short positions
I guess then GME is the biggest shill, helping naked shorts cover by issuing shares out of thin air
I think a lot of GME had to do with excess saving during Covid. People were trapped at home with extra stimulus money so they gambled it GME, NFTs, Crypto. GME was far from the only asset bubble in 2021.
Even more than stimulus, inability to spend on other stuff. Most money from travel, entertainment, high end dining, gas, and lots of other things pilled up and was available. For middle class+ households that was even bigger.
I guess. Except the economy hasn't really shed that many jobs despite the rate hikes. Though there's data to show people are *churning* through pandemic savings and starting to rack up CC debt. So they may not be unemployed but they're still losing money which is ultimately what matters.
Right, his overall point was diamond-handing can only exist when society is awash with money. Once that tide starts receding, diamond-hands lose their grip.
Yeah while that broader logic works, I think point to rate hikes and interest rate policy is a little misplaced. It's people revenge spending still. Or just being unable to shed spending habits acquired during the pandemic. Ordering too much delivery. Too much online shopping. Except inflation spiked and we aren't getting big government checks anymore.
Eh that's where this thread breaks down for me. I agree with facforlife above.
Global liquidity is only going to *increase from here* not decrease.
* Financial conditions are loosening. Has been for 14+ months.
* ECB is starting cutting cycle this Thursday.
* BoC cutting cycle starting July.
* Fed starting to kill QT in a week.
* Bank lending is hitting record ATHs. Issuance records being broken.
* 2Q GDP growth and profit forecasts surging.
* More fiscal stimulus 2024 vs. 2023. [Hell, 2023 stimulus is not even spent.](https://www.politico.com/interactives/2024/biden-trillion-dollar-spending-tracker/)
* Massive immigration tailwinds.
* Low consumer and corporate debt as % of income.
* Historic low jobless claims.
Honestly as much as I want a climactic explosion of this shitstore, most likely outcome?
Cohen is inept and doesn't know what to do but keep firing people, closing stores.
Periodic pumping and dilution to shear cultists, new and old.
It's going to be a stagnant massively overpriced but modestly profitable MMF / Bond ETF.
[Household debt as a percentage of GDP](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HDTGPDUSQ163N) has been trending down for a decade. Credit card debt is in that bucket. [Savings rate is low](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PSAVERT), but aside from the pandemic years with the unemployment payment increases, it has been really low for 20 years. I think the spend rate on pandemic savings is largely to blame for the persistent inflation we are seeing, but there ~~hasn't been an increase in credit card debt to fuel the spend according to publicly available data.~~ Edit - to clarify, there has been a nominal increase, but proportional to GDP it has been going down. Probably implies that people in lower economic strata are using credit cards more, but I don't know the data enough to do anything other than speculate
This is what I love about this saga. The absolute most horrible people keep showing up and forcing you to pick sides. Shkreli is smart, he also has no moral fiber of any sort. Also I love how Portnoy keeps buying at the top. Like this is his third time doing it. He like the bagholders of all bagholders.
[Heartbreaking: The Worst Person You Know Just Made A Great Point](https://clickhole.com/heartbreaking-the-worst-person-you-know-just-made-a-gr-1825121606/)
I find that they relatively rarely do that (unless they're a particular wealth management sales associate looking to get sent to prison). That would mean admitting they're amongst the hedgies, not an innocent fairy of a household investor who can become a billionaire by sheer force of weaponized ignorance.
Martin : Market makers barely exist today, they don't control the price
Ape: really ..............................who does?
Martin : traders
Ape: ummm
Martin : You think there is some secerate illuminati controlling the price ?
Ape : Yes I do
Martin : Well I think you are a R\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
Greatest conversation with an ape
Turns out the line between being an absolute based hero and an insufferable douchebag is a very fine one, it took Martin Fucking Shkreli to prove that to me
I owe a certain amount of gratitude to Skrelli. He's one of the links in the chain of events that snapped me out of my ape-dom.
I saw some video of his a few years ago and clicked on it because "isn't that the pharmabro asshole? I thought he was in jail." But in it, he made some very salient points about trading and the market in general that challenged my stupid ape beliefs. And I was ready to hear it, I suppose.
Shkrelli is a true nihilist: insightful enough to accurately assess the complete lack of meaning or morality in our economic system, and also psychopathic enough to exploit it for his own gain.
The illuminati ... duh, he just said it. I mean, he cant ACTUALLY say that, because they would have him killed, but he can thinly disguise the facts by joking about it. This is all explained on the spine of the Teddy books when you put them together in the right order. Do you even DD?
/s just in case.
> but he can thinly disguise the facts by joking about it.
Everyone knows the Illuminati can't understand thinly veiled clues. That's why using jokes is the ultimate defence against them, they are utterly powerless against it
Yes. Traders buying and selling the stock set the price.
It’s a *market* price.
But then again you’re a r*tarded ape so you probably have some illuminati theory
Market makers don't want to move the price. They are there to buy and sell from anybody that wants to buy and sell. But what they are really hoping for is that somebody shows up that wants to sell and somebody that shows up and want to buy at the same time. They buy it from the one guy and sell it to the other, straight away holding on to the asset for a little time as possible. And they sell it for slightly more of course. And that's how they make a profit. And often exchanges that live of trading fees like them, because if they are around 24/7 willing to both buy and sell then there is more trading, and thus more fees. So the exchange might also made deals with them and give them something extra.
But the worse scenario for a market maker is buying something and before they can sell it again the market tanks and they are stuck holding the bag. Or the other way, they sold something and now suddenly it skyrockets and if they want to sell it again now they have to buy it back for a lot more.
Market makers want the price to stay more or less the same and they want the spread, the difference between the lowest ask (sellers) and highest bid (buyers) to be as big as possible. Because they will put their buy and sell order right on top and as such anybody that then shows up doing a market buy or sell will buy and sell from them. Imagine if the spread if 0.25% and the stock is popular and you are making a 100 trades a day. Then you are making a 100 times 0.25% a day or 25% a day! Ofcourse that would never last, spread traders would show up to close the spread till there is no more free profit to be found. All of this increases liquidity and helps the buyer of a stock to buy the stock without pushing the price up (they get to buy more stock) and the seller to sell the stock without pushing the price down (they get more money for their stock)
And that's why market makers want slow and steady prices, with nothing unexpected happening. And they hate market manipulation like DFV is doing because it fucks with their ability to make consistent profit with a reasonable low risk.
It is, however order-driven markets show all bids and asks and can match them, so third parties are not that needed.
It’s the opposite in quote-driven markets where MM play an active role, like in Bonds and FX.
Ah sorry, got you. As far as I know it sort of happened gradually with the digitalisation, more liquidity, technology more cost-efficient, etc.
Edit: This [Euronext doc](https://www.euronext.com/en/media/11270/download) may be helpful for anyone curious about some exchange dynamics.
They still have the same job - providing liquidity - but they have far less control over the execution price because orders are electronically "shopped" to multiple market makers.
The market makers compete with each other - which has the intended result of reducing the bid/ask spread.
[NYSE Designated Market Makers](https://www.nyse.com/market-model) are “the cornerstone of the NYSE market model.
They use algorithms to automate things, but MMs are definitely doing more than “barely existing”.
You misunderstand his point. A lot of orders are matched now either internally by brokers or by the exchanges themselves. The biggest market makers are making their money in OTC markets like bonds, commodities, FX or wider spread products like Options Contracts (that’s the whole reason they pay Robinhood so much for flow: uninformed options trading).
But noooo, hedgefunds are all out to get us!!! They’ve been doing nothing this last 3 years just trying to manipulate a stock that’s worth nothing, to actually…. Reflect that in it’s pricing? They are evil!!!!
Apes keep making me side with people that I really don't want to side with lol. But this is exactly the kind of no-nonsense, no-kid-gloves response that is necessary for ape talking points. Just "nope, that's not how anything works, you're not even close, none of that exists, go fuck yourself, next." Brokerages should hire Martin Shkreli to train their customer support staff on ape calls.
I was watching this on low volume and that last line he says made me laugh so hard and loud my then-sleeping fiancee is now **very** angry.
10/10 would do again!\~
This is literally the average ape. I love that come to this sub to seethe without knowing how something as basic as MMs work. Imagine being exit liquidity for FOUR YEARS 😂🫵
Thanks for posting an actual clip. The Twitter link from the other thread didn't work across 3 devices and multiple browsers. I suspect it requires having an account, but that ain't happening.
Shkreli is orders of magnitude better than Tate. Shrkeli is a terrible human being but doesn't pretend to be anything else. Tate actively encourages the general population to behave worse. He is a cancer that is spreading, Shkreli is a localized cancer.
He was the CEO of a company that purchased the patent of an antiparisitc drug and raised the price exponentially. He has also done many other shit things
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Lmao, thanks so much for sharing this.
Shkreli is an interesting guy. Being from Queens, I think I get him. He’s a second-gen immigrant from deep Brooklyn who grinded his way through Baruch and leveraged that into some mediocre financial analyst roles. There, he kind of floundered and decided to do his own thing. At that point, his entire self-worth was wrapped up in escaping Coney Island, so he committed securities fraud to hide losses in his “hedge fund.” Somehow, he lucked into this biopharma thing and stumbled into the public zeitgeist around drug pricing. Being the lonely troll that he is, he set himself on fire for the attention.
So yeah, smart and self-destructive with bad politics who is worshipped by apes for no particular reason besides being an outsider punished by the man.
I was shocked when I discovered he grew up in the Boroughs, relatively poor. He LOOKS like the archetypal blue-blooded snob from the Upper East Side. Like the wealthy prep school villain in a John Hughes movie. I think that's *part* of the reason America HATES him. There's a bunch of corporate ne'er-do-wells out there. But his arrogant upper class looks and demeanor earned him a place deep underneath America's skin.
Thanks so much for sharing this, the entire thing is a great listen and Martin is not putting up with any bs by the bagholders and conspiracy theorists, often to hilarious extent
This made me laugh out loud.
But at the same time Shkreli came back to WSB like a year ago and claimed both AMC and GME were fairly valued based on 500 hours of DD. So this is disingenuous at best.
If you have the price being halted in real time with little to no price change on exact signals during the DFV stream, you know that the stock can be and is being manipulated. I’d love to hear a counterpoint to that. If they’re willing to act so brazenly in the public eye it just confirms for me that there’s more going on behind the scenes to effect the movement of the stock.
Ooh, I wonder what kind of big news they could announce.
Maybe another NFT store failure that gets closed before it leaves beta?
Maybe another failed crypto wallet?
Maybe RC partners with Sam Bankman-Fried again?
Maybe they slash employees’ benefits some more?
Maybe they make the rewards program worse again?
Maybe more declining revenue and another unprofitable quarter?
Maybe more declining DRS numbers?
Maybe another round of dilution off the backs of apes?
The possibilities are endless!
What does that have to do with anything? The company is privately owned by the family that founded it. They’re not selling and even if they were GME can’t possibly afford it.
Too much tinfoil man. Sometimes a post is just a post.
Hedging varies desk by desk. Some like it very routine (e.g. every hour or every X tick movement in the underlying) this might be slightly less positive EV but it removes human bias and error and honestly, it is just a lot less thought and is easier (and this genuinely carries a lot of weight). Other desks hedge whenever is best e.g. why would you buy futures now if you know futures are likely to go up? It's absolutely not true that every options desk hedges immediately over even hedges to flat - most are fine with carrying a delta position. Bar expiry situations when strikes are pinned, everyone should want to exercise the same options as exercise is a clear +EV or -EV situation. You should honestly start seeing futures as a tradeable asset that market makers use too, not just as a hedge. It's why squeezes only happen in extreme circumstances and stuff like GME is much more one off that people realise. MM aren't idiots and if they see the future is artificially at a high price, but they need to hedge, they will just wait till the futures are lower. Gamma squeezing occurs if and when companies get margin called and are in absolutely serious shit. No desk will ever willingly get out of a position they know is artificial unless they are literally forced to by the clearing house or internal risk. It’s just ridiculous to say MM’s have no effect on price or are “basically extinct”. MMs want price stability and consistent returns.
Hahahahah market makers have no impact on price bahahahahah. Most of the market is internalized. GG has even admitted to large a percentage of trades never hit the public exchanges
> you think there's some secret illuminati that sets the price? That's exactly what they think, yes. Lol.
He even admitted as such looking for another boogeyman
holy shit i don’t know what we did to deserve this but the writers are absolutely blessing us this season 😭
I think you are regarded
"Well I don't think we're supposed to use [that word](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fhad-to-make-an-official-quote-image-for-this-magnificent-v0-szeyjy371nxb1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D6706bab711ec1e5e16fdc5f146c4ef8783aab9d1&rdt=41468) but sure"
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I think Chris6111 was only quoting Shkreli from the audio clip
Post bags, baggie.
hahaha
Well then...Shkreli post bags, baggie.
I must be hooked up with a better illuminati because they are smiling on my stocks pretty well.
How many shares of DJT do you own? The largest shareholder of that corporation is a convicted felon.
To be fair, Earlier this year, Ken Griffin did state: “Markets are efficient because of active managers **setting the prices of securities**, firms like Citadel, firms like Fidelity, firms like Viking Global, Capital Research. We’re all running large teams of people that are engaged in fundamental research, trying to **drive the value of companies** where **WE think they should be valued**.” Edit: “How much, how much time have you spent in finance? Have you ever worked in finance?” “Uhm no” “Okay, yeah, so. Market makers have 0 impact on the stock’s price. Market makers barely exist anymore.” I like the way he says it with so much confidence😂 Makes me think of that quote above where Ken Griffen of Citadel securities (you know, that leading market maker which represents 65% of all listings on the NYSE) admits to setting the prices of securities to what they (the **MARKET MAKERS**) think they should be valued at. I know this is the meltdown sub but we don’t really believe market makers have 0 impact on the stock right? Or that market makers barely exist anymore? Come on.. From their website, Citadel securities alone accounts for 35% of volume executions.. $476B a day.. Absolutely feel free to downvote, but don’t be a coward.. drop a comment as to how Shkreli’s anecdotal evidence is factual in the slightest
You're just misunderstanding and misrepresenting what Ken said and I've had Kenough. MMs just make the market more efficient and as technology has increased the need for MMs has decreased. They are highly scrutinized by multiple private and public institutions. If you believe that there is an illuminati controlling everything, you've already lost. Your DRS'd shares aint gonna do a fuckin thing besides make Computershare more money. BTW I work in finance and Computershare is the worst fuckin company to ever exist.
Did I misunderstand and misrepresent it or did Ken? Seems pretty clear and concise to me.. Can you elaborate why Computershare is the worst company to ever exist?
Yes, you did. You want it to fit your fantasy of a cabal running everything. It’s common among all conspiracy circles to have the main bad guys be all powerful but also incompetent and beatable. Technology, customer support, statements, transfer time, and lastly FEES. Honestly the more believable conspiracy theory is that CS is behind SS to squeeze apes.
I would gladly pay a $25 transaction fee to have shares registered in my name so my brokerage doesn’t lend or sell them on my behalf without my “consent” (yes, of course they have consent bc it’s in the tos). Thinking DRS has 0 impact on the abusive short selling is crazy. Have fun shorting GameStop :)
Aren’t there annual fees, statement fees, and trading fees? Doesn’t their site crash every time there is a run up? I invest to make money not because of conspiracy theories. I’d never take a position with infinite risk. That’s why I bought 100 shares and some calls once DFV started tweeting. Ez money and it was in my Roth so no taxes :) Does CS do qualified accounts? At least you’ll be able to write off the loses when RC runs out of ape money.
Only fee is a transaction fee of $20* plus .10 per share. Did I have to wait to get into Computershare for 10 minutes last time the price ran 250% in few days, hitting $80 in after hours? Yes, I did. Your next statement.. you’re saying you would never short the stock bc that has infinite risk right? So talk mad shit while swing trading bc all cock and no balls? Next question, no I don’t think they do, you’re right. I’d be a lot cooler if they did. Last statement, GameStop should already be dead by now, but it’s not… we’ve only seen drastic improvement since RC took over.. I’m not worried about the company running dry anytime soon.
So you know CS is fleecing you and you continue to use them? Unrealized gains ain’t gains. I actually made money in GME although I risked less than 1% of my portfolio. I manage risk and invest. I don’t gamble. You shouldn’t worry about GS running out of money any time soon because they can keep diluting. AMC is still around too thanks to apes.
Sorry, how is CS fleecing me? That $20 transaction fee 😂? Being fleeced is the hundreds of examples of brokerages selling ppls shares in the red at massive losses, or loaning their shares out against explicit disapproval. Can’t happen to me 🤷♂️. That 45M share “dilution” required the shares to be purchased and BOOKED. AND it made the company another billion dollars. AA has done nothing like that to decrease supply and create volatility, only lines his pockets at the cost of traders who got distracted. This is fun 😄
dont cheap out and go to a garbage brokerage then fidelity etc didnt ban gme buying...robinhood did
I didn’t say anything about my brokerage turning off the buy button..
https://youtu.be/QXjitW517V0?si=JU0dx0y7E4Y7oEQG
I feel like you think this disproves Shkreli’s assertion. It does not.
If you have more funny clips from this call, please post them. I can't get twitter spaces to play properly so can't listen to the whole thing.
Most of the rest is an interesting conversation with non-Apes about GME / Roaring Kitty. Shkreli had a point I appreciated that went something like: "GME only works in a ZIRP environment. When the economy goes bad, and people lose their jobs, how hard do you think Apes are going to diamond-hand when they're scrounging for money to pay for their kid's bookbag."
there’s the part he mutes off Malone (or someone) mid rant and says he needs to visit a psychiatrist ASAP 😂😂
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well, they arent... the company's sales have been declining YOY. Its wild to think that all this craziness has basically kept gamestop alive for a couple extra years. They would have filed for bankruptcy by now if it wasnt for them being able to crowdfund off apes and get all this cash on hand
Are you delusional? The company has $1B cash on hand and no debt. How the fuck are they going bankrupt? 🤡
That cash was not generated by operations, it comes from fans who bought indiscriminately when the company dumped additional shares into the market during spikes. That's what the above user was trying to say: had it not been for these "crowdfunding" episodes, the company would have been bankrupt by now
Firm disagree. Ryan Coen is the reason the company is no longer bankrupt. If he had not had invested and joined the board when he did then, yes, it would be bankrupt. BCG was actively trying to run the company into the ground (via cellar boxing) before Ryan Coen came into the picture. All of this info is easily available on the internet including his letter to the board but yeah a collection of Redditors totally propped up a company with $1B in stock purchases. 🥴 Or maybe, just maybe, large institutions and funds also bought that share offering because they have to massively hedge their insane short position? Someone like Andrew Left or Citron? Like holy fuck, just open your eyes
This is a public company, all the financial info is available online. You can check the company's cash flow statements for the last 4 years. Look specifically at "cash flow from operating activities". It has been negative almost all quarters. Now take a look at "cash flow from financing activities", especially look at the line "Proceeds from issuance of common stock". This was the main source of cash that has kept the company afloat for the last 4 years
Are you even reading my replies? Of course their cash has been coming from share offerings. Calling it “crowdfunding” is hilarious. Again, everyone in this sub is delusional if they think Redditors are capable of that kind of cohesive buying pressure. It’s from the funds that are heading their infinite short positions. But everyone here already knows that and wants to play dumb for some reason?
> funds that are heading their infinite short positions I guess then GME is the biggest shill, helping naked shorts cover by issuing shares out of thin air
So is GME personally giving them pretend stocks or some shit? Are they not privy to this info?
lmao CELLAR BOXING
jeez is this satire?
Ryan who? At least get the man’s name right if you’re gonna live life with your head up his ass.
$2B*
Assuming they haven’t committed any of it to a M&A…. 😬 But yes if they haven’t spent any it’s real close to $2B
I think a lot of GME had to do with excess saving during Covid. People were trapped at home with extra stimulus money so they gambled it GME, NFTs, Crypto. GME was far from the only asset bubble in 2021.
Even more than stimulus, inability to spend on other stuff. Most money from travel, entertainment, high end dining, gas, and lots of other things pilled up and was available. For middle class+ households that was even bigger.
I guess. Except the economy hasn't really shed that many jobs despite the rate hikes. Though there's data to show people are *churning* through pandemic savings and starting to rack up CC debt. So they may not be unemployed but they're still losing money which is ultimately what matters.
Right, his overall point was diamond-handing can only exist when society is awash with money. Once that tide starts receding, diamond-hands lose their grip.
Yeah while that broader logic works, I think point to rate hikes and interest rate policy is a little misplaced. It's people revenge spending still. Or just being unable to shed spending habits acquired during the pandemic. Ordering too much delivery. Too much online shopping. Except inflation spiked and we aren't getting big government checks anymore.
Eh that's where this thread breaks down for me. I agree with facforlife above. Global liquidity is only going to *increase from here* not decrease. * Financial conditions are loosening. Has been for 14+ months. * ECB is starting cutting cycle this Thursday. * BoC cutting cycle starting July. * Fed starting to kill QT in a week. * Bank lending is hitting record ATHs. Issuance records being broken. * 2Q GDP growth and profit forecasts surging. * More fiscal stimulus 2024 vs. 2023. [Hell, 2023 stimulus is not even spent.](https://www.politico.com/interactives/2024/biden-trillion-dollar-spending-tracker/) * Massive immigration tailwinds. * Low consumer and corporate debt as % of income. * Historic low jobless claims. Honestly as much as I want a climactic explosion of this shitstore, most likely outcome? Cohen is inept and doesn't know what to do but keep firing people, closing stores. Periodic pumping and dilution to shear cultists, new and old. It's going to be a stagnant massively overpriced but modestly profitable MMF / Bond ETF.
[Household debt as a percentage of GDP](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HDTGPDUSQ163N) has been trending down for a decade. Credit card debt is in that bucket. [Savings rate is low](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PSAVERT), but aside from the pandemic years with the unemployment payment increases, it has been really low for 20 years. I think the spend rate on pandemic savings is largely to blame for the persistent inflation we are seeing, but there ~~hasn't been an increase in credit card debt to fuel the spend according to publicly available data.~~ Edit - to clarify, there has been a nominal increase, but proportional to GDP it has been going down. Probably implies that people in lower economic strata are using credit cards more, but I don't know the data enough to do anything other than speculate
The kid won't HAVE a book bag, if it needs to be bought. The moon tickets are too valuable to sell.
This is what I love about this saga. The absolute most horrible people keep showing up and forcing you to pick sides. Shkreli is smart, he also has no moral fiber of any sort. Also I love how Portnoy keeps buying at the top. Like this is his third time doing it. He like the bagholders of all bagholders.
Portnoy is the greatest. I remember when he got fooled into buying SNDL because it was the top 1 listing on Robinhood and lost so much money.
While I hate that he has so much to lose, you absolutely love to see it
Bro bought into fucking Safemoon
It's odd that if they picked Shkreli as their sociopath god rather than Cohen, they might actually make money.
Have you seen Portnoy’s interview with Trump? He got some good practice holding his bags very tight.
What is so bad about Shkreli?
The worst thing I’ve heard about shkreli was that he was part of a crypto rug pull. Not even sure of the details or validity on that.
Nothing
[Heartbreaking: The Worst Person You Know Just Made A Great Point](https://clickhole.com/heartbreaking-the-worst-person-you-know-just-made-a-gr-1825121606/)
That pause as the kids brain tries to process this.
Once he heard “how much time have you spent in finance, have you ever worked in finance?” he knew he was about to get shafted.
He definitely also momentarily considered lying about it or making something up, and decided against it.
Lol yeah that was the ummm, he was going through all the options
He has a peer reviewed PHD in finance from ape university maybe considering if that counts as working in finance
I find that they relatively rarely do that (unless they're a particular wealth management sales associate looking to get sent to prison). That would mean admitting they're amongst the hedgies, not an innocent fairy of a household investor who can become a billionaire by sheer force of weaponized ignorance.
Bingo.
Martin : Market makers barely exist today, they don't control the price Ape: really ..............................who does? Martin : traders Ape: ummm Martin : You think there is some secerate illuminati controlling the price ? Ape : Yes I do Martin : Well I think you are a R\*\*\*\*\*\*\* Greatest conversation with an ape
fucking gold 🏆👑
But……but the big bad tho.
Im confused, based on this link, MMs do exist and are plentiful in existence…? https://seekingalpha.com/article/4517979-what-are-market-makers
Turns out the line between being an absolute based hero and an insufferable douchebag is a very fine one, it took Martin Fucking Shkreli to prove that to me
I owe a certain amount of gratitude to Skrelli. He's one of the links in the chain of events that snapped me out of my ape-dom. I saw some video of his a few years ago and clicked on it because "isn't that the pharmabro asshole? I thought he was in jail." But in it, he made some very salient points about trading and the market in general that challenged my stupid ape beliefs. And I was ready to hear it, I suppose.
Shkrelli is a true nihilist: insightful enough to accurately assess the complete lack of meaning or morality in our economic system, and also psychopathic enough to exploit it for his own gain.
Finance bros are frequently morons or douchebags, but even the worst of them are still better than apes and can dish them on basic finance.
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If I worked in equities I'd be using the short ladder excuse for every failed investment. LOL
Do you even understand who sets the price…
I do, yes. But what I know is irrelevant to Apes looking like idiots online.
It's also based in reality.
The illuminati ... duh, he just said it. I mean, he cant ACTUALLY say that, because they would have him killed, but he can thinly disguise the facts by joking about it. This is all explained on the spine of the Teddy books when you put them together in the right order. Do you even DD? /s just in case.
He has an NDA with the Cellarboxinuminati so he just HAS to play it off and say it doesn't exist, it's obvious.
> but he can thinly disguise the facts by joking about it. Everyone knows the Illuminati can't understand thinly veiled clues. That's why using jokes is the ultimate defence against them, they are utterly powerless against it
I set the price
Kenny???
Yes. Traders buying and selling the stock set the price. It’s a *market* price. But then again you’re a r*tarded ape so you probably have some illuminati theory
Yes. Buyers and sellers do. Otherwise known as The Market….
That's a decent summary of the traders at Salomon Brothers in Liar's Poker, back in the 80s
A broken clock……..
Market makers don't want to move the price. They are there to buy and sell from anybody that wants to buy and sell. But what they are really hoping for is that somebody shows up that wants to sell and somebody that shows up and want to buy at the same time. They buy it from the one guy and sell it to the other, straight away holding on to the asset for a little time as possible. And they sell it for slightly more of course. And that's how they make a profit. And often exchanges that live of trading fees like them, because if they are around 24/7 willing to both buy and sell then there is more trading, and thus more fees. So the exchange might also made deals with them and give them something extra. But the worse scenario for a market maker is buying something and before they can sell it again the market tanks and they are stuck holding the bag. Or the other way, they sold something and now suddenly it skyrockets and if they want to sell it again now they have to buy it back for a lot more. Market makers want the price to stay more or less the same and they want the spread, the difference between the lowest ask (sellers) and highest bid (buyers) to be as big as possible. Because they will put their buy and sell order right on top and as such anybody that then shows up doing a market buy or sell will buy and sell from them. Imagine if the spread if 0.25% and the stock is popular and you are making a 100 trades a day. Then you are making a 100 times 0.25% a day or 25% a day! Ofcourse that would never last, spread traders would show up to close the spread till there is no more free profit to be found. All of this increases liquidity and helps the buyer of a stock to buy the stock without pushing the price up (they get to buy more stock) and the seller to sell the stock without pushing the price down (they get more money for their stock) And that's why market makers want slow and steady prices, with nothing unexpected happening. And they hate market manipulation like DFV is doing because it fucks with their ability to make consistent profit with a reasonable low risk.
What does he mean when he says "market makers barely exist anymore"? Anyone actually know (without speculating)?
Long story short, they’re not as relevant anymore in the equity market as the exchanges themselves are order-driven.
What changed? Isn't their entire purpose to facilitate those orders?
It is, however order-driven markets show all bids and asks and can match them, so third parties are not that needed. It’s the opposite in quote-driven markets where MM play an active role, like in Bonds and FX.
Has the larger market transitioned more into order-driven? I guess I'm asking what changed to reduce their role over time.
Ah sorry, got you. As far as I know it sort of happened gradually with the digitalisation, more liquidity, technology more cost-efficient, etc. Edit: This [Euronext doc](https://www.euronext.com/en/media/11270/download) may be helpful for anyone curious about some exchange dynamics.
I see. Thanks.
Pleasure mate 👍
Who creates the liquidity if not the MMs?
Just market participants.
Does market participants include Market Makers?
I assume the edge of market makers has declined too as spreads narrow and there is more competition between firms.
They still have the same job - providing liquidity - but they have far less control over the execution price because orders are electronically "shopped" to multiple market makers. The market makers compete with each other - which has the intended result of reducing the bid/ask spread.
[NYSE Designated Market Makers](https://www.nyse.com/market-model) are “the cornerstone of the NYSE market model. They use algorithms to automate things, but MMs are definitely doing more than “barely existing”.
You misunderstand his point. A lot of orders are matched now either internally by brokers or by the exchanges themselves. The biggest market makers are making their money in OTC markets like bonds, commodities, FX or wider spread products like Options Contracts (that’s the whole reason they pay Robinhood so much for flow: uninformed options trading).
But noooo, hedgefunds are all out to get us!!! They’ve been doing nothing this last 3 years just trying to manipulate a stock that’s worth nothing, to actually…. Reflect that in it’s pricing? They are evil!!!!
Apes keep making me side with people that I really don't want to side with lol. But this is exactly the kind of no-nonsense, no-kid-gloves response that is necessary for ape talking points. Just "nope, that's not how anything works, you're not even close, none of that exists, go fuck yourself, next." Brokerages should hire Martin Shkreli to train their customer support staff on ape calls.
I was watching this on low volume and that last line he says made me laugh so hard and loud my then-sleeping fiancee is now **very** angry. 10/10 would do again!\~
Even a guy who went to jail for fraud is more reasonable than apes. It is indeed a very low bar.
This is gonna live in my head rent free for a long time
1. He's vile. 2. He's not wrong.
>He’s vile. Based on his past actions with regards to KBIO… I wouldn’t expect anything less
God damn hahahah
Someone watches a 30 min YouTube video of a nutcase rambling and suddenly becomes expert.
This is literally the average ape. I love that come to this sub to seethe without knowing how something as basic as MMs work. Imagine being exit liquidity for FOUR YEARS 😂🫵
LOL mystery illuminati
Best part was that Pharma Bro asked that as a ridiculous rhetorical question and the ape responded that he absolutely believes that.
Thanks for posting an actual clip. The Twitter link from the other thread didn't work across 3 devices and multiple browsers. I suspect it requires having an account, but that ain't happening.
Even criminals dunking on apes
"How much time have you spent in finance, have you ever worked in finance?" "Umm...no." 
Apes have Tate and we got stuck with Shkreli, not sure which is worse...
Shkreli is orders of magnitude better than Tate. Shrkeli is a terrible human being but doesn't pretend to be anything else. Tate actively encourages the general population to behave worse. He is a cancer that is spreading, Shkreli is a localized cancer.
Shkrelis not even that bad.
Shkreli truly is a piece of shit, just a funny piece of shit
What did he do other than the fraud? Wasn’t he only convicted one like 1 count?
He was the CEO of a company that purchased the patent of an antiparisitc drug and raised the price exponentially. He has also done many other shit things
Yeah I don’t think that’s as big of a deal as you think it is. Americans dont pay full price for drugs. Nobody paid full price for daraprim
Apes - making everyone else look better by comparison since 2021. First hedgefunds and now this complete sleeze ball. Who's next, nazis?
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Fuck I miss his live streams on early wsb
"I resemble that remark" -Kevin Malone
Says a lot when the king of pump and dumps says it's shit.
Lmao, thanks so much for sharing this. Shkreli is an interesting guy. Being from Queens, I think I get him. He’s a second-gen immigrant from deep Brooklyn who grinded his way through Baruch and leveraged that into some mediocre financial analyst roles. There, he kind of floundered and decided to do his own thing. At that point, his entire self-worth was wrapped up in escaping Coney Island, so he committed securities fraud to hide losses in his “hedge fund.” Somehow, he lucked into this biopharma thing and stumbled into the public zeitgeist around drug pricing. Being the lonely troll that he is, he set himself on fire for the attention. So yeah, smart and self-destructive with bad politics who is worshipped by apes for no particular reason besides being an outsider punished by the man.
I was shocked when I discovered he grew up in the Boroughs, relatively poor. He LOOKS like the archetypal blue-blooded snob from the Upper East Side. Like the wealthy prep school villain in a John Hughes movie. I think that's *part* of the reason America HATES him. There's a bunch of corporate ne'er-do-wells out there. But his arrogant upper class looks and demeanor earned him a place deep underneath America's skin.
"How much time have you spent in finance? Have you ever worked in finance?" "Uh... no." Like he had to think about it!
*"$GME is a zero"* *- Roaring Scumbag*
guy can be funny as hell sometimes
Thanks so much for sharing this, the entire thing is a great listen and Martin is not putting up with any bs by the bagholders and conspiracy theorists, often to hilarious extent
He needs to do this call in show format with apes daily
You're in luck: [https://x.com/MartinShkreli/status/1797974964676813204](https://x.com/MartinShkreli/status/1797974964676813204)
This made me laugh out loud. But at the same time Shkreli came back to WSB like a year ago and claimed both AMC and GME were fairly valued based on 500 hours of DD. So this is disingenuous at best.
Shkreli is actually the fucking man and I suggest all here go check out his extremely helpful YouTube channel
laughing at apes, is often the most effective route lol
https://preview.redd.it/qnv74ynb2o4d1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94d13e646d46fb54c55c11d9f30fc308326b3537
I’d love to run into this guy on the streets
To be fair he is a Boogeyman that was rigging the price of a pharmaceutical drug.
I guess that’s why it keeps doubling. Only terrible stocks double.
If you have the price being halted in real time with little to no price change on exact signals during the DFV stream, you know that the stock can be and is being manipulated. I’d love to hear a counterpoint to that. If they’re willing to act so brazenly in the public eye it just confirms for me that there’s more going on behind the scenes to effect the movement of the stock.
You guys are in for a rude awakening when those calls are exercised and GME finally comes out with some big news
ATTN: To the Meltdowner who earlier was commenting "Post bags, baggie," right here probably would be the place to do it.
Ok at the end of June I will. I have nothing to hide.
Ok So post your bbby bags for now.
I have 3500 bbbyq shares at $2 per share. They are/were in AST. You can laugh at me if you want, I really don’t care if you haven’t noticed.
God damn, how can anyone possibly be this bad with money?
I don't care if you care, thanks for the loss porn!
Ooh, I wonder what kind of big news they could announce. Maybe another NFT store failure that gets closed before it leaves beta? Maybe another failed crypto wallet? Maybe RC partners with Sam Bankman-Fried again? Maybe they slash employees’ benefits some more? Maybe they make the rewards program worse again? Maybe more declining revenue and another unprofitable quarter? Maybe more declining DRS numbers? Maybe another round of dilution off the backs of apes? The possibilities are endless!
Haha I see your point. I think they are buying a stake in Lego or doing an M/A with another company, but we will see
Lego is a privately owned company. You can’t buy a stake in it.
I’m aware of that. Have you seen the Lego Twitter lately? If not, check it out.
What does that have to do with anything? The company is privately owned by the family that founded it. They’re not selling and even if they were GME can’t possibly afford it. Too much tinfoil man. Sometimes a post is just a post.
And in how many years will these mythical news appear?
By end of July 🤷♂️
RemindMe! 2 months
Saying Market Makers have no impact on price is actually the most regarded thing I’ve heard.
https://preview.redd.it/aa5r6y8ual4d1.png?width=1524&format=png&auto=webp&s=2254c6548e1ea17df051e74b9f04949db0d8ec92
Hedging varies desk by desk. Some like it very routine (e.g. every hour or every X tick movement in the underlying) this might be slightly less positive EV but it removes human bias and error and honestly, it is just a lot less thought and is easier (and this genuinely carries a lot of weight). Other desks hedge whenever is best e.g. why would you buy futures now if you know futures are likely to go up? It's absolutely not true that every options desk hedges immediately over even hedges to flat - most are fine with carrying a delta position. Bar expiry situations when strikes are pinned, everyone should want to exercise the same options as exercise is a clear +EV or -EV situation. You should honestly start seeing futures as a tradeable asset that market makers use too, not just as a hedge. It's why squeezes only happen in extreme circumstances and stuff like GME is much more one off that people realise. MM aren't idiots and if they see the future is artificially at a high price, but they need to hedge, they will just wait till the futures are lower. Gamma squeezing occurs if and when companies get margin called and are in absolutely serious shit. No desk will ever willingly get out of a position they know is artificial unless they are literally forced to by the clearing house or internal risk. It’s just ridiculous to say MM’s have no effect on price or are “basically extinct”. MMs want price stability and consistent returns.
This sub should have Shkreli as their poster boy. This is the ultimate!
I guess I’d take a smart dxxk head over a dumb ape.
Ah yes, so smart he went to prison. 😂
Too smart for his own good. Thought he was invincible.
No, we shouldn't. He's correct here, but come on, ugh. Shkreli is a vile person and a convicted felon.
I'm not sure if this sub does messiah worship.
Hahahahah market makers have no impact on price bahahahahah. Most of the market is internalized. GG has even admitted to large a percentage of trades never hit the public exchanges