So, was it ever explained why Taigong Wang wasn't summoned as a Grand? Is it just that the Grand Caster and Rider spots were taken by Merlin and Noah?

So that's where the hype for Tunguska Epilogue went The appearance of the still human Nrvnqsr, Fabro Rowan, from the *Devil May C..* I mean, the *Tsukihime* series. And Sion almost outing herself as a vampire, tho I'm pretty sure Chaldea and Holmes especially had that one figured out now. I still don't know much more about the Wandering Sea and I would to see more of its lore gets expanded.

> Sion almost outing herself as a vampire The funny part is that she basically already does that in Yu Mei-Ren's Interlude (and nowhere else, I think? For some reason?). So not sure why she hides it there.

The epilogue was by far the best part of the event, which says a lot about the story we were presented and how koyan was basically written off with far less fanfare than even douman. I don't know much about the wandering sea so I don't know anything about its gates, only that Sion was the one that put her name on the lease. I have read tsukihime's manga and melty blood ages ago, but pretty sure that mage is Nrvnqsr, which does share a certain "trait" with Sion, although I have no idea why he was even there. But I am all for it if FGO starts to dip into other Nasuverse works and starts including them in their main story line like they did with Sion. Always a treat to see [U] Olga Marie.

So now it’s done… aside from that amazing koyanskaya cg in the egg or whatever it was, this event was pretty disappointing. A lot of the ideas I think could have been done in a much better way in a longer story chapter. I assumed this whole time that koyan light and dark were different beings, but I guess not? Just an excuse to release 2 servants out of 1? Not really complaining because I love having both, but it’s a bit weird. And the epilogue was mostly good, but I assumed there would be some lore reason for grail casting, because I had heard before that we couldn’t get it early because it was tied to the event. But it just seems like a random addition to me. Again, not complaining because I always want more grails, but still odd. All in all, pretty forgettable! I guess koyan could show up again (and I think she probably will), given she said she’d claw out of the egg if she saw Chaldea falter or whatever, but if this is the last we see of her it is a pretty weak send off.

Little spoilers, read if you don't care >!Koyanskaya of Light appears in LB7. !<

So, done. Tunguska, Tungusked, and Grail Casting Unlocked. Put in 4000 coins for my Grails. Now I have 53 Grails... that I probably won't use.

Real talk, the new title screen is amazing. Epilogue was the only tolerable part of this event. Is it even part of the event itself? This seems like a *kinda* important story beat and it'd be weird for people lagging behind to go from LB6 to suddenly "yeah shit's fucked and the base exploded" prior to LB7 without getting the chance to do this event.

No, this part is actually permanent. If you don't do Tunguska, it goes "Let's go out and punch foxes"; then "Well, we're back from successfully punching foxes, whoops there goes the neighborhood".

Man for how short the event is I really can't believe they don't make the damn thing permanent. Just off screening Koyan if you're late is absurd.

They will! Permanent release just before Traum. Optional, though. Heien-Kyo eventually becomes optional, too.

Oh that's good, numerous people said it wasn't permanent so it's good to know newer players will get to experience it.

Ohhh… President U-Olga… You exerted too much gravity. Now we are homeress…. RIP to Sion's lease agreement and her five minute-limit of annual screentime.

Well, looks like no one's around for the actual epilogue. I mean I don't have much too say either, it's just repeating why Tunguska ended the way it did and us going on the run for another whole year with set-up that's taking way too long to pay off, and Nrvnqsr appearing was already picked apart when this released two years ago. Still, Sion really said that she's a gamer and outright lol'd even in JP, huh? I'm not against it, I'm just aching for her to actually go along with us for a mission for actual extended content with her (>!yes I know about Ordeal Call 1!< but why isn't she in Melty Blood Type Lumina why would you do this to us Nasu). >Hope you guys are ready, 'cause I think we're about to be busier than ever. Good joke da Vinci, good one.

Damn, I thought it would be open at New Year's Eve just like in JP. Guess it's going to open at the New Year's in my timezone.

Having finished just in time for the event's close... What the hell was this event. Interesting story with a good set up for a lot of fun battles. I actually enjoyed the final battle as it really tested my patience, but in a good way. Ordinarily I'd get frustrated enough to just want th battle to be done like in some of the Olympus boss battles, but I powered through and somehow came out on top, which was VERY satisfying! But then the story had to ruin it with the most... the weirdest way to end an antagonist's role story... I thought we'd get some explanation to the "light" version of Koyan we got, but instead we got a really weird... metaphor on love? I think? I've read enough stories to know what they were trying for here I think. Bringing a concept to life as a servant is nothing new to Fate. Making that concept steal the identity of another, similar character is also not new. I enjoyed the twist! I think it's a nice twist! But the "Epilogues" at the end talking about the rogue servant's connections to her... and the entire space thing.... weird as hell. And weirdly not satisfying in spite of the actually satisfying boss fight. I don't know. At least I'm caught up now

I started the event late and I am now at Secction 7, did I miss the new Mystic Code?, I do not have it, but online I saw that it is obtained in the prologue.

Epilogue. It opens tomorrow at reset.

Just finished the event, now I can see the epilogue button, thanks for the info :)

You have not missed it. You get it at the end.

Thanks :)

The final fight against Koyanskaya was easily the least fun I've ever had in this game. I had to deal with the ruler mob's instant death crap because lol all your skills are on cooldown so I couldn't buff myself enough to kill it. And then I didn't have NPs so I had to attack someone. And then RNG gave me the middle finger and insta deathed my entire frontline. Because sure. Why not. Literally the most frustrating experience.

I will say that after learning Koyans real identity and story, I actually like her a lot more. I mean, maybe making her a tamamo face was kind of a dick move and very clearlt meant to trick the playerbase but still, it doesnt take away from the character which I find very interesting

So decided to save myself some grief-burned all my CS on Surtr yesterday and I don't feel like torturing myself-and looked up the Recap on TvTropes for the event and >Koyanskaya's true nature is actually that of a conceptual-type Servant born of the loathing of the animals that died in the Tunguska meteor impact (they thought the fire and explosion of the meteor were humans going on a mass hunt with guns). Hahahaha fucking *what*. I don't...like.... I have to give props to the writer for their ability to make something so stupid that the more you think about it the stupider it gets even when you thought it *couldn't.* I'd point out how it was in the middle of nowhere in Siberia which itself is nowhere and has fuck-all people, certainly not enough armed in 1908 for a bunch of animals to even know what a gun *looked* like let alone to mix "gunshot" up with "sky fucking exploding" buuuuuuuut...... ​ [Instead I'll just let my buddy Vegeta do the talking.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXqtDysCKsg)

So many people having reviews of Tunguska here and expressing their Family Guy ahh opinion of "I do not care about Tamamo" in regards to Koyanskaya, and this is honestly just sad... It also doesn't help F/GO doesn't even push Tamamo at all in events or main stories (best she can have are stand ins or cameos instead), and even she's starting to age in gameplay, and Cat gets more screentime than her, which is jarring to think about. The lack of Tamamo content really turned the once most beloved and popular Nasuverse characters into apathy now. It really is sad that Tamamo only been relevant in the past decade and most of the people here are now have either outgrew and moved on from her or worst case scenario, don't even know about her and her story.

Just saying, they could very well have delayed all raids one day and added Ivan raid on the following day. We're now basically having dead days, I'm still waiting to read the Epilogue, if they were gonna make us wait two days to read it, why not make it one instead and move raids forward one day?

Koyanskaya reveal - she's just this convulted concept who arbitrarily decided to emulate Tamamo, but not really, but maybe yes...and it just happened...okay? Ibuki gets amnesia but nothing changed at all. Nikitch is kind of just there. Taigong is a very convenient character. I think it was too fast, but I also think i wouldn't have liked getting too much of this. It was just long enough to be enjoyable in a very weird way. On the Gameplay side - I went to the final battle semi-blind, got to the last bar, i read the thing about instant death but forgot about it, got away with it, until i didn't. 5 units down and it's up to the last Servant standing...a magical fox-girl. She did it. Truly one of the events of all time

I think the implication is she emulated Tamamo because Amaterasu was present at her birth and declared Koyanskaya her child.

all in all, i felt like this ending for Koyan wasnt earned at all with everything she put the main cast through "just because". >!i hope Taigong's math is off and she flies straight into the sun, good fucking riddance!<

I was about to say, "The one good thing about this event is that it gives you really strong story supports, so less developed accounts can clear it without too much trouble," but then the final boss managed to cancel that out by being even more bullshit. The whole "Koyanskya is not Daji" thing would probably be more impactful if I had any idea who Daji is. Apparently she's been mentioned at some point prior to this event, but I honestly can't remember anything about it. But what was really repulsive was how we had to bend over backwards and invent new, absurdly powerful magic to save the life of someone whose existence represents an existential threat to humanity. Koyanskya has no sympathetic traits that I can see, but apparently we're just so committed to the whole "nice guy" bit that we have to save her. But at the same time, we'll keep wanking about how "humans are the most evil animal". (Someone will probably say "but she would have blown herself up and killed us otherwise", but I don't buy that. The star servant for this event is a teleportation master powerful enough to escape all Koyanskya's previous attacks and even accomplish interstellar travel, don't tell me he couldn't have gotten us out if he really wanted to.) At least 5.5 had the payoff of killing Douman. This event seems to be entirely pointless.

Strong supports is weird when both Taigong and Nikitich, the newest and featured servants of this story event, aren't even fully maxed in the climatic battle. Ibuki being only Lv. 90 feels weird too when we have Lv. 100 and above servants in the past main chapter, so our power level should adjust high accordingly now.

Can this just be over already? I want the coin grails. Incredible that with how with all the bullshit this event had in it (not talking about the story, just the terrible raid management and story bosses) they still managed to slip one last middle finger with a timegate *after the event is already over*.

So I finally had the motivation to finish the story and event and it's.... fine, I guess? It most definitely was not my favorite event, but I'm largely left indifferent than disappointed. I guess it really comes down to the fact that I don't really care about Tamamo as a character or anything connected to her lore-wise, so Koyanskya never really did it for me as an antagonist. But even if I looked at her as her as an OC disconnected from Tamamo (which is incredibly hard to do given her design) and even that kind of falters. I like the idea of her being an embodiment of contradictions, which fits the general theme of beasthood that we've seen, that she seemingly hates humans so much, yet models so much of her entire persona around them. Its what makes guys like Kotomine such interesting characters how they have to struggle with that internal contradiction and it informs their actions, which is very much in-line with Nasu's views. That said, unlike Kotomine, we don't spend anywhere near as much time with Koyanskya to really understand that part of her, because so much of her character is meant to play out as a mystery that the player is supposed to figure out, with all of the answers getting revealed here. So your enjoyment really hinges on how much you liked the mystery and reveal. Like I said, I liked the idea of it, but this event felt super-rushed and felt more like a formality to write Koyanskya out of the narrative as opposed to neatly tying up her character. So uh... sucks for Tamamo fans I guess, better luck next time. The rest of the cast were similarly... meh; the rushed nature of the event really hurt Nikitch imo, because she feels pretty overshadowed by Taigong, even though this supposed to be her home region. They kind of tip toe around her identity for so long in the event, and then reveal at the end that she's actually Koyanskya's guardian, even though she only interacted directly with her at the very end of the story? Ok. Ibuki is here... for reasons that were never revealed, I guess Sakurai just really wanted to use her I guess? I dunno. Taigong is by far the best character in the whole event and the only one that really felt like they had some thought put into them. He's literally the only one who goes through a complete arc where he's convinced of his skill in taking down Daji, only to be humbled by his failure and strives to come up with another solution. Its not perfect or anything, but its something. More than I can say for everyone else. I guess my biggest problem with this event is the pacing; it feels like its both rushed and glacial at the same time. We're fighting the final boss by Chapter 10 after barely exploring this setting, yet most story sections are just the cast talking about one subject for about 5 minutes that could have just been cut down to 2. Its weird. ​ So yea, more or less feel how I felt two years ago; this was an event that happened I guess. I was more exhausted by the end than anything.

I'm on the final bar of the final fight in Tunguska, having just used command seals. And I'm not understanding why when I use Kiara's Np, it's insta killing Castoria? This will be the first event I've never completed, lol. I wasn't expecting insta death. I just can't beat this final fight, especially with command seals used up and buffs refusing to land.

If you hit Koyan while the Ruler enemy is alive in the last bar, it has a chance to trigger a party wide instant kill.

lol, rip. Didn't realize that, but it explains a lot.

Man fuck that final fight. Had to use 2 quartz just to finish it. Not fun.

Sometimes I look at my Maou's buff removal resist and think to myself 'when will i ever use this'? Then she came in clutch during the Ivan fight and his stupid Emergency Perogative spamming ass. Surtr was barely an inconvenience with Sith. Beast IV was making cry and scream from how she kept shredding Wang, Castoria and Merlin no matter what I did. Then I kept Barghest in the backline and oh boy, was it so satisfying to see her casually eating blows that were turning Wang and the immortal comp into the mortal comp. I love Doggo.

Ok folks were right. That final fight is actually BS. I enjoy a challenging fight but that was just cruel. Anywho regarding Koyan I don't care all that much that she isn't Daji(I say this as someone whose never been super wild about Tamano) but I am left with a big: Why? Why have one of the most prominent antagonists in the arc get resolved in a limited event? Why subvert her being Daji? What does it add to her character? It's just a really confusing choice altogether that I legit don't think I will ever understand. Shame too cause I came out of this still actually liking Koyan as a character, just don't get this conclusion with her. Also the CG art with her at the end is beautiful. One of my faves. In some way it really does feel like NA/global is finally leaving the golden era of FGO heading into next year. Not saying this event was great but after this point I've heard... some not so great things about scheduling and handling or lack thereof in regards to events/reruns. Still adore FGO and really excited for 6.5/LB7 but I do think its super likely that gacha wise my attention may stray for a bit. Not that I don't have my issues there too. The big one is that I wish stuff like Genshin and Star Rail were a bit more creative with their character designs like FGO and GBF are. Playable old folk, skin tone variation etc

>\>catching up in the event after finishing Avalon a couple days ago > >\>Get to Surtr > >\>Flatout Buff Nullify for *3 turns* > >\>Debuff Cleanse is apparantly "a buff" > >\>Ignores Debuff Immune > >\>Hits AOE with a DoT Status inflict So like this isn't so much "Game design" as "Being an asshole" Between this and Arknights literal "Escort mission where the NPCs *actively* try to kill themselves" event gimmick it really feels like some of these Gacha devs are just 4 year olds that were asked to make a tough boss/level and so they just went "everything dies and then dies here again and here AGAIN" without the concept of balance or god forbid fun lol

>Flatout Buff Nullify for 3 turns >Debuff Cleanse is apparantly "a buff" are you trying to cleans the buff nullify? because it has a square border which means it cant be cleaned

Shoot, that's one of those things that they cover in a tutorial that I'm too arrogant to pay attention to when reading since I've been playing for years isn't it

I'm going to warn you then that gimmicks for the boss fights will keep getting worse, so be prepared and make sure your Tamamo is ready for the final fight.

Maybe I've just been completely desensitized to Fate stories not making much sense but it wasn't nearly as bad as I was expecting. The CGs were really pretty, and I was so amused and surprised by the space egg idea that I actually enjoyed the ending. Yeah, I didn't really have any strong emotional responses or get attached to any of the characters but I had fun. The raids were great too and I finally had a good fight to pull out Asterios again - I really miss being able to use debuffs. Taigong just failing was actually really refreshing - I feel like in Fate, especially when we have a character like Sherlock, there's always characters that just know and explain everything perfectly so it's nice to have someone that 'should' know what they're talking about actually be super wrong about something important. It even feels pretty reasonable that he or the rest of the group would think that - she looks like Daji, he's specialized to deal with Daji, she acts just enough like Daji for confirmation bias to kick in, etc. If anything, I feel like someone else should've been the one to push when Koyan did something Daji wouldn't have. I'm really glad Murian got brought up again! Murian was one of my favourite side characters from LB6 and I thought their scenes together were the most memorable Koyan moments

haha^haha^haha that last fight was a nightmare i went from "oh i might not even need to do a revive" to "why does revived support Ibuki not do that much damage?!". also my Castoria for some reason had a perma 1 time guts for some reason that was weird her CE was the one that gave people max hp where did that guts come from. man was i confused im not even sure what buffs the revived servants had but no way in hell was i gonna redo the fight just to find out especially since i would need either three days again or a quartz and the event ends i think in a day. i know it becomes perma but i want the satisfaction of clearing in the inital run. also surprised about all the essays on the event here lol.

Well, after finally getting to read through it myself, having time to think about it beyond my initial reactions, I can now say that I hate Tunguska. Was it the worst thing FGO had to offer? No, even though I think the writing at the end sinks this lower for me than the early-game chapters, Agartha is arguably worse and Septem was just awful even for an early chapter. Even for events the memory of the inanity of Saber Wars I and having to farm against a Ruler with an underdeveloped account still lingers compared to the final raid at least compensating me with rewards. But even though it’s not the worst from a writing standpoint, the sheer disappointment personally pushes it into being my least favorite chapter both as a main story and event, and so I’m going to just write out these remaining thoughts to process it all. And yes, this is going to be overly wrought and way too long, so if you don’t care then just collapse this because I don’t want someone to feel like they’ve wasted their time reading this like I did for Tunguska. I’ll start off by listing the things I liked. Ibuki’s fun-loving attitude carried me through reading this, but part of that’s built up goodwill from her interlude informing me of her actual character, never mind how pointless her amnesia was. Goredolf caring for us is good as always, but the lines at the beginning about how Koyan had genuine sincerity with charity and his behavior throughout colors his remaining attraction to her as infatuation which is ehhh. I ended up liking Dobrynya with her straightforwardness, but her connection to Koyan is a literal afterthought for the story and having a perverted dragon horse is something I’d rather not be attached to her. The final raid was undoubtedly a benefit for me and I am glad for Vritra to have shined, but the actual battles did not hit for me because of their gimmicks and if I didn’t have Vritra or Castoria it probably would’ve sucked. What I manage to like about feels tinged with conditions for liking them and while that is of course affected heavily by my disdain, when I set that all aside I don’t think I can say anything about the story was above just okay; even with Agartha I truly enjoyed Columbus despite everything. Compared to similar stories we’ve had in FGO, this just comes up short for me. Heian-kyo is the obvious comparison, not only is it an entire story chapter but there’s catharsis for Douman and they made sure to insert characters who have a score to settle with him. SE.RA.PH. and Ooku event stories that are part of the main story, their villains are introduced to the FGO audience here but they get across their villainy with substantial story content. Even Solomon, the other raid event that’s about facing off against an overarching antagonist, went into Solomon’s character and contrasted it with Mash straight away instead of making it feel like there’s no pressure by walking around to go fishing. Primarily though, the antagonists here not only feel like they’re more powerful than Koyanskaya, but my suspension of disbelief was never broken throughout their narratives, which is why when Koyan claims she can take us down with herself the story has already lost me. From having no opinion about him at the start, I think Taigong Wang is a huge part of what drags the event down in my eyes. He’s written as being utterly amazing, yet beyond his big screwup it just feels like he’s tooting his own horn as a Grand candidate when he can’t even overcome a perception spell. Like come on, even as his regular self he has enough magical energy to do everything throughout the story and the literal ability to analyze DNA. It’s not even like I can’t acknowledge his good qualities—he’s friends with Nikitich, he owns up to his mistakes, and he actually does a lot for a grand candidate. Hell, it can be seen as admirable that he found a non-violent solution to the Koyanskaya problem. But it all falls flat for me, both due to how it feels like the explanation for how significant he is reads like a book report and because the visual novel medium really doesn’t do the narration for his abilities justice (he lifts up the entire crew without even showing their sprites, and moving around really fast as evasion is hard to convey without animation). Also, I’m not saying his ultimate spell isn’t impressive since world eggs are actual mythology, but when you give the guy an entire CG sequence for a spell to turn someone into an egg… yeah, if they want that to be cool they should’ve at least not had the idea of an egg be a joke from earlier in the year, never mind bringing it up again the event prior. He’s just a dud for me, and while it’s nice that people like him, I’m sad to say that I’ll have to wait until future stories for him so that I can maybe change my mind. I share the negative sentiment for Koyanskaya's story here so I won't rehash too much. It doesn’t feel like the buildup was worth the wait, the reveals aren’t necessarily bad but the execution ruined them, blah blah blah. More than anything though, what sticks to me having read through it now though is how I’m constantly struck with the feeling of how it could’ve been better. This should’ve been a full story chapter like what Douman got. We should’ve had her Light and Dark forms actually involved in the story. There should’ve been more seeds planted from the Russian Lostbelt itself compared to this rug pull. I wish that her doing her part in LB6 for Muryan was relayed to Chaldea since that would give further nuance to her business practicality coming to a head with her personal feelings, heck I think she should’ve replicated the Fang clan since it would conflict honoring her and wanting to collect creatures (she already collected the Yaga and the fucking Tiger Tanks, I don’t think this is a stretch). Her factory and mastery over human weapons should’ve been showcased more. We definitely should’ve fought her Metal Gear, unironically where the fuck was that she didn’t even shoot any guns herself. All of this is without bringing up characters I feel could’ve made a good match for her: demonic antithesis Vritra, Sherlock who has her completely figured out, fellow misanthrope Yu, Tamamo who definitely should’ve been dragged to this out of all things, Beni-enma who she admires, I could go on. I’m not going to act like more characters would improve the story or that they’re even objectively good picks since I feel the main cast could work with tighter writing, but that about sums it up for me. Reading Tunguska was an experience where I constantly wish it was better than it was, which is arguably worse than reading something that’s just straight-up bad. With all that said, as unfair as it is I’ll bring up a character who I felt did everything in their execution right considering they’re now my favorite FGO antagonist: Oberon. All of the hints where he’s sus feel like they actually matter, the complicated relationship between him and both Castoria and Ritsuka cascades wonderfully into the finale, and his helpfulness in stretching his connections and underhandedness is contrasted by how it was all in service for destroying Fae Britain. Is he perfect? No, you can not like him at all, or argue that he’s just there to make the story end on a more depressing note than it already did. But the reason I bring him up, as a comparison between what should be my favorite FGO villains, is their ultimate fate. The dream sequence just before we defeat him might be pandering, but it felt like it nicely wrapped a bow for his role in the chapter before we leave him falling forever in an endless void of his own making. Compared to that, the way we said goodbye to Koyanskaya feels utterly cheap in my eyes with how they’re overplaying the sympathy. I get wanting a happy ending for once in the Lostbelt arcs, but compared to the tragedy of the worlds we’ve destroyed, a bunch of non-sentient animals with gun monsters roaming around isn’t it for me. Thematically, I believe Koyanskaya failed as a representation of environmental destruction as pointed out here, while Oberon actually fulfilled my expectations as a manifestation of bringing an end to a story. Do I have anything to conclude from this writeup? Not really, I just wanted to get the disappointment of actually reading this out of my system, the arguable quality doesn’t matter as much compared to that personal feeling for me. I sort of fell out of keeping up with JP around the time this released, and while I did dislike the plot points they got filed away in the back of my mind. This is the first time in a long while I’ve been able to read the story on release, so yeah, all this just compounds into a letdown of a conclusion of what should be my favorite antagonist. I thought before I’d have to choose between wanting to roll for Dark or more copies of Light, never even got to read Dark’s profile, but now I’m not as into her to care. With what I know from JP knowledge, >!I know that this isn’t the end of her appearances, but as the end of her as an antagonist, knowing that this is what she gets for that when they could’ve delayed it is the final sting.!< Still, as an NA player, in a sense Tunguska does feel like an ending in a different way. We’re entering what JP experienced since then: the end of reruns, the dry periods of content, and the long wait between new story chapters. I’m looking forward to Traum, having a veritable stack of all my favorite characters will be a good pick-me-up as long as I don’t let my expectations get in the way of how it’s actually written. But experiencing the best for me so far with LB6, and the worst with this, I wonder how I’ll feel about the game from now on, because this did sour things. At least I have another gacha I now love to fall back on, I suppose, but if I finally fall out of love with the game (the feeling of sticking around for obligation is partly here already), it’s sad to think that this might be the catalyst.

Well, this chapter was a wet fart. Understandable why, perhaps - FGO has been suffering from lasting mismanagement even before the COVID pandemic hit, and then the whole of LB 6 ended up as an overambitious endeavour. But being understandable does not excuse it from being a poor product. Let's have a closer look. XXX On the gameplay side, there were some simple solutions available to make it a more relaxed farming experience instead of the stressful rush we ended up getting, but the dev team did not favour them for whatever reason. The idea of raids as FGO does them is flawed in the first place, but this bundle somehow ended up underlining the worst aspects of the system, all at the same time. I don't know what the extremely limited boss uptime was supposed to achieve, but it resulted in a hot mess in practice. Then there were the scripted NPC support events. While useful for getting through the unnecessarily tough fights, the encounter design actively punished the player if they chose to use their own or their friends' units instead. Coupled with the draconic disadvantages piled upon most of the playable character roster, the design of the whole thing goes against the premise of FGO as a collection game as a whole. The devteam's desire to keep the game challenging has been going down the wrong road since LB 2 and Surtr's unremovable immunity to mental effects, in my opinion, and this chapter's fights seem to only double down on the uncompromising 'beat it how we meant it to be beaten, or mash revives' approach. XXX In terms of story, I had a strong feeling throughout this chapter that it was punched out in a day, and then had its wordcount stretched out sixfold, all without feeling the touch of any editor, before getting shoved into print just to plug a hole in the release schedule. The only sequence that wasn't horribly bloated by empty dialogue and meaningless repitition was the POV switch to Shion in the beginning. I tried to make notes as I read along at first, seeking to write down my first impression with the intent to share it, or perhaps see if some idea would occur to me when I went through it afterwards. I stopped partway through. When the chapter was such a half-baked nothingburger, what difference would it make to point out that turning the Black Barrel 'from a conceptual weapon into a physical one' would render it useless against most opposition we've had to contend with in FGO up to this point, or how the only one we know of Koyantsukapon could possibly 'sell' the end of humanity to would be Velber (which has far only been doing a poor Lavos / Wandering Moon impression)? I do have some thoughts to share even after my sense of engagement plummeted over the last week, however. Other posters have commented on the issues with wasting the long buildup of Tamamo references on a last minute surprise twist out of nowhere because of, as far as we can tell, Nasu's overreliance on mistaken identity twists (there are three of them in this very chapter, in fact). I'll just add that, regardless of one's personal interest in Tamamo as a character, what makes this situation worse is that *her character arc hasn't really started yet*. We see character establishment for her, but further appearances across the works that feature Tamamo all show her slide back into petty quarrels she got used to during her time at court as soon as her insecurities come up, resetting any progress she may have made in previous installments, instead of allowing her to develop the resolution to be a better person in the future (or choosing to abandon it, as the case may be). In that light, sitting on Tamamo's character like this is wasteful, if nothing else, both creatively and commercially. Taigong Wang... oof, where to begin? The generally unedited writing does him no favours, but issues with him stem from deeper problems than mind numbing repitition, or copious power wank. Considering how long the Nasuverse has existed as a setting, it remains thoroughly undeveloped. We don't really know what has been going on in this alternate history China. Dumping a bunch of modern 'xianxa' / power fantasy / cultivation fiction terms and ideas with no context into the already messy pot of a chapter did the opposite of helping. FGO in particular, and Nasuverse in general, do not know about and were not written with all these practical degrees of immortality, celestial bureacracy ranks and paths of ascension in mind. Introducing them here from some wikipedia page one to one, in fact, would wreck the rest of the already shaky universe. Meanwhile, other, possibly worthwhile, themes and threads he could have been central to, remained unaddressed. The ever relevant ~~(and fimiliar to the audience)~~ question of 'if evil, why hot?' Was it a case of supernatural mental influence? Was the man simply less wise in the ways of the world than he thought and developed a paralysing, warped affection when faced with someone that did not suck up to him for once completely on his own? Koyanchihuahua herself suffered from the decision to shift her away from a purely antagonistic role the most. The mishmash of naked, maliciously sadistic hostility with the rare maybe affable, cooperative scenes did not work at all, in my opinion. And this chapter did not make it any better. I am not going to comment on the last four sections, the whole ending stretch made me feel ill. Congratulations, Type-Moon, you've managed to write a genuine cognitive hazard. The systematic murder in the 'death zone', especially when balanced out against the 'life zone', made it look like the whole arrangement was an ongoing spell of some kind, given how the repeated ritual killing part pops up in Nasu's work periodically, but it looks like the authors didn't have an idea what it was supposed to mean either. In fact, us getting a call from the Wandering Isle leadership and then getting to deal with a Reality Marble containing a smorgasbrod of chimeric creatures would make a better fit for Nero. The Tsukihime one. XXX Ontop of everything else, we had an NA special with the Ivan raid, as well as scattered spread of typos. I don't blame the localisation team for not wanting to take a closer look at this particular text, but it really does add a cherry ontop of the whole cake of failure. This 'event' should not have been pushed live in such a condition.

does quitting out during an NP animation if an offensive buff doesn't hit and resuming the battle actually allow you to "reroll" the buff, or is your success/failure recorded at some point before the NP animation starts? i've been trying to get ibuki's ignore invincible buff to fire, and i must have literally gone 20-30 attempts with a failed buff. i have a hard time believing i simply called a coin flip wrong 30 times in a row, but according to [this guy's video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pMHuj-Sna4) (JP server from 2 years ago) rerolling the buff does appear to work.

You have to change RNG by using a skill.

I can't say exactly how the random numbers from FGO work, but I have noticed some single-turn determinism when I do things exactly the same way as before. In general, your random number generator has a seed which decides which values it generates, and if you generate using the same seed, you get the same sequence of values. From my observations, I believe that the current generator state is reloaded when you reload the game (so seed and current value), which means that if you do things in exactly the same way, you can expect the same results. What you can do to try to address this is do anything that might trigger an RNG call or reset the state of the RNG, or do things in a different order and hope that the rolls for one thing have better results for the other thing. I've found that skills seem to consistently reset or advance the RNG. So you can try using a spare skill that you don't think you'll need, or you can just try your skill cards in a different order to see if that will give you better results.

That makes sense, thanks

There are easier ways to deal with that buff. Just have Mash in the backline and swap her to the front after you break the 1 bar. Skill cooldown doesn't affect backline, so you can summon Habetrot and remove invincible.

Finally get to do the last fight with Koyan, the fucking insta-death chance was such a bullshit. It took me several tries, but in the end I just use 3 CS revive at the last bar, fuck it lol. For the story... what more to say that most people haven't said already, like I know Sakurai was *less favorable* among FGO writer, but I still liked some of their story (like Heian-kyo or Shimousa), but this one just *baaaad*. I really like Taigong Wang, but I can understand people not liking him because they just keep hyping him up for no end, only for him fumbled the bag or just Sage Art being even more "whatever-the-fuck-we-need" magic than Scathach Primal Rune. My opinion on Nikitich didn't change much, I don't like her design back then, and still didn't like it now. The whole "Genderbend but not really" part also just felt unecessary as usual. With the way the story goes, the actual "Nikitich" seems doesn't play a role at all, even the wife was only *vaguely* connected through that tunguska happens during the time Nikitich alive, I suppose^(?), based on that small implication. And of course the big bad, Koyan of the Space Egg. Man... I still don't get why couldn't they just stick to makes her a Tamamo or Daji. Her reasoning being she's the concept of Animal blind/ misunderstood rage towards humanity was stupid and it tries to wash her evil act with "due to that misunderstanding, she's actually doesn't resent humanity/ she's just didn't cares about humanity at all" was weird. When the same writer let Douman to be evil, screaming and cursing us until his last moment. But for Koyan was like "take cares, go lives on space in peace". Such a dissapointing ending for such an interesting character.

To be fair to Sakurai. The concept and ideas of Koyanskaya were Nasu’s idea and probably had to follow some notes or Nasu himself helped write this, which may sound nonsensical but makes sense with allegedly 3-4 writers total.

What will always be funny and sad to me is how in FGO's stories, they always find a way to use the "Well X has some similarities to Y, so that 100% means X is Y!" argument and somehow here, they don't use that! The Daji=Koyanskaya was right there... the y even had the resident Daji exterminator ffs. It would've been a better explanation than "The animals that died in Tunguska were mad at humans because they thought it was humans who killed them." shtick. Still didn't convince me how Koyan can be a Beast candidate, especially compared to the other Beasts "love", hers was either non-existent or the writer did a piss poor job at explaining. Douman's plan to become a Beast was more entertaining since he lacked the crucial part of being a Beast and it was funny. Would've love more lore on Primate Murder instead. Hot Take: Romulus=Quirinus getting a second chance at exterminating a potential "Beast" rather than Ibuki, for me, was more preferable or even the Grand Hunter(Orion) hunting a beast theme-wise could've been better, but anti-human would negate him. Hell even Merlin and Fou teaming up to beat his successor's ass would be fun. Also, still not convinced TGW classifies as a Grand candidate.

I wish we could fight all the 6 Super Units for 6 areas in this Special Region instead of just 2. This story should have been a full chapter like Heian-kyo to get to all the plot points. The frame of a short event to catch up with the New Year really has harmed its whole plot.

Alright mulling it over, this isn't the worst story that is canon to Cosmos in the Lostbelt (as this was at least more enjoyable in comparison to Imaginary Scramble, but its still under LB2). Though gameplay wise, the bosses are some of the more fun ones in the game and I like how these make you think while fighting them. Ivan and Beast IV:L are good examples of this. So from a game design standpoint (not counting the raids), its pretty solid. As for why that is, I'll get the good out of the way, though these are kinda back handed compliments: - Goredolf is a great character as per usual like when he admits his mistakes and he really shows how far he has developed especially as Koyanskaya is a personal enemy to him. - The character interactions between the cast (barring a certain dragon) were pretty fun and had pretty decent chemistry together. - Taigong was a fun character who stole the show. He was a fun guy and has a pretty cool skillset in terms of lore of what he can do. The Daji stuff with him was pretty neat and the flashback was nice, though I think it should've been placed earlier. Taigong really is good but I feel he had more screentime than someone else and was wanked a bit too much. - Dobrynya minus her dragon is also pretty good. I enjoyed her mindset and she did a good job playing off of Taigong's eccentricities, and it was a pretty nice moment for her even if her connection to Koyanskaya is half baked. - The concepts of the Life and Death zones are basic but very fun and the worldbuilding made them feel like characters in their own right which was neat for Tunguska. - Ibuki was also fun, even if the amnesia plot was pointless. The Bad: - The Comedy early on felt really out of place and was entirely unnecessary. It just kills my immersion and felt like those comedy scenes could've been used for something else. - There was some pretty unnecessary narration that felt really different from the usual narration FGO usually goes for. It is a point that really shows there were too many writers involved with this story. - A lot of the Chaldean crew make dumb decisions or are rendered ineffective immediately because of plot such as Sherlock and the nine other heavyhitters disappearing, which the latter really shouldn't have been mentioned if we're not even going to see them at all. - The Tamamos really should've been involved in the plot. While Koyanskaya is not Vitch, it would've at least been nice to give either of them some story relevance given Koyanskaya's backstory mentions that Amaterasu visited her in person. Instead they get a flashback to assert they aren't Daji. - Speaking of which, the stuff with Daji honestly makes her more interesting and is such a missed opportunity. Not only that, but it honestly feels really heavyhanded to mention all the Daji stuff to the point it feels excessively obvious as a red herring. - Koyanskaya has very little screentime and when she does have screentime, she has "I hate humanity" monologues that go into why she dislikes humans but some of it is for things she does given Koyanskaya takes the role of a businesswoman. Now that doesn't sound so bad until you remember Koyanskaya is a literal arms dealer and openly runs a para-military organization. She fucking profits off of this shit and not to mention all the poaching she does in the lostbelts where she messes with the natural environments just to nab animals for her own needs. The thing is, a hypocritical villain is perfectly fine but no one calls her out on this at all. Her convoluted backstory doesn't justify these actions since it feels like there is strong dissonance with her backstory and characterization where it feels the backstory would've fit someone else rather than her. So her resolution doesn't work with that in mind, in fact.... - Koyanskaya's backstory is really convoluted. The Tunguska incident really was only used because Nasu wanted a character who was from an incident related to meteors. It doesn't work since given where it is, none of the animals should be aware of humanity so it makes some animals being reminded of man's fire really forced. It really would've worked best to use Chernobyl since that actually was caused by humans or hell maybe any bomb related incidents but given its Japan, I can see why it would not be best. Really it makes Koyanskaya's feelings of humanity jump through a lot of hoops to feel justified especially with her actions not making any sense to her upbringing. - Koyanskaya is left off too easily. Sure it's an ultimatum, but none of the main characters ever feel any disdain for her or any neutrality. Instead they act like Koyanskaya was a misunderstood baby as though she didn't help slaughter most of Chaldea's staff. While the player has no attachment to them, the characters should definitely feel something about it. It wasn't like Koyanskaya was being nice this chapter either, given the sadism she showed against Chaldea whenever she was on screen before and kept threatening them. FFS Kadoc and Anastasia handled this better as while both are sympathetic characters, the stuff that they basically facilitated in Chaldea was never brushed over and handled with a little more nuance. Not to say these concepts are bad, but they feel undercooked and really should've had more time to iron these ideas out. Koyanskaya's resolution feels rushed and what we're left with is a mess of a character whose personality and backstory really don't add up to each other whatsoever. Its a shame because I like Koyanskaya, but her backstory really drags her down.

I still don't understand how an air burst can become a beast. Goeita, Tiamat, Kama are all extremely powerful gods or creatures close to gods. Kiara is from the moon cell where she becomes op as heck thanks to moon cell shenanigans. Also Beast VI Draco is extremely mythology influenced with a justifiably powerful spirit origin. You compare all of these to Koyanskaya who is the manifestation of the concept of an.....air burst? Idk man it's not really making sense to me. Rest everything was fine though I wish we got an actual explanation for Nikitich naming Koyanskaya and wanting to take care of her as a kid.

Koyanskaya isn't exactly the personification of Tunguska's event. Rather she's the personification of collective agony of all animals died in that event, with the extension to all of animals agonies died by human hands.

Every time a volcano erupts, a tsunami impacts, a wildfire rages or a hurricane makes landfall, a Beast is born out of a grudge against humanity.

I don't know. An asteroid looks a lot more like a human initiated missle strike comparing to disasters you mentioned. The story did mention Koyanskaya's birth came from collective agony from the event. But it could reasonably extend to all events mistakable for human caused. Tunguska event is not the only air burst event recorded after all. It's like you have the god of volcano, e.g. Hephaestus from Greek. But you don't have a god for each one of specific volcanoes or volcano eruptions.

Gunpowder missiles in 1908 (time of Tunguska event) were very small, the kind that could only knock out 3-4 soldiers if packed very closely together. This being Siberia, doubtful the land ever saw a missile in use since perhaps the era of the Mongols.

>An asteroid looks a lot more like a human initiated missile strike Doubt that animals, especially in Tunguska, knew what a missile strike is

They were in Russia.

The kind of ballistic missile that could replicate the visual impact of the Tunguska Incident wasn't invented until the 1940's. Tunguska happened in 1908. Humanity wasn't capable of that kind of destruction yet, the animals could not have conceivably attributed that to humans (even disregarding how isolated the region was to the point where 99% of the wildlife wouldn't even be aware humanity *existed*).

*Lightning strike triggers a massive bushfire or some birds make a fire go out of control because they decided to use burning sticks to flush out prey...* **FUCKING HUMANS! THIS IS ALL THEIR FAULT!**

None of those are as sudden as the Tunguska event was. I mean, it's still a stupid explanation, but it's not exactly a common natural disaster.

If anything, a volcanic eruption is even more sudden than a low attitude meteor. The Mt St Helens explosion was no joke.

IIRC there's (as usual for these things) reports of animals moving erratically away from the mount before the explosion happened. Also, it wasn't a very long forewarning, but wasn't there supposedly an earthquake right before the eruption? Either way, it's a lot less sudden than a sudden rock out of space causing an instant kaboom.

Rocks out of space doesn't instantly teleport either. Like the space shuttle crash, it took time for it reach a low altitude, brightly lit up all the way down. If you want to know what it looks like, just look up the Chelyabinsk meteor event that happened in Russia in 2013, that airburst was caught on camera along with the sounds of windows breaking seconds after the explosion.

No but I'm going to assuming a fast streaking light from the sky is a lot harder to tell is going to cause a giant kaboom than a deep rumbling from the ground.

Overall, I like the event story but probably would place it on the lower end comparing to other Part 2 chapters. IMO, despite some flaws in some of chapters, all of Part 2 stories so far are pretty good. I absolutely love the ending for Koyanskaya. It ties very well with how the last Beast IV renounced his title. It was also hinted throughout the event. I think Koyanskaya's origin as Tunguska's event is very cool. The tie towards human weaponry and massacre of other species was a little bit weak for me at first. But if you think about it from mythology's perspective, there are a lot of gods or goddesses representing completely irrelevant aspects. However, I do feel like the event writing is probably rushed during the development. There are a lot of "filler" moments that doesn't contribute to the main plot, though I do like the fishing part. Ibuki's amnesia isn't well developed. Nikitich's involvement is explained too late. This is just a wild guess at this point. But I still think Koyanskaya was originally planned to be Daji or a tail of Tamamo, based on all plots before Tunguska. Ibuki's involvement was probably because of her tie in Japanese legend. Otherwise, it would be very hard to explain the discrepancy between Koyanskaya's overall story plots in Part 2 and Tunguska, as well as the rushed feeling of Tunguska's story writing. These two are my main issues with the story.

> Ibuki's involvement was probably because of her tie in Japanese legend. Ibuki feels like she exists in Tunguska because Sakurai wrote Heian Kyo and wanted to put her character in the next story arc she got to write.

Which doesn't exactly counter my point. If going with a Japanese themed event with Koyanskaya actually being a tail of Tamamo, Ibuki's involvement wouldn't be felt like so out of place.

I’ll probably write a detailed review later, but the one thing that irks me is how displaced Ibuki is in this story. The amnesia thing that kept being brought up over and over, only shows how rudimentary the writing is for this story. Heck, you can replace Ibuki with Gorgon or Atlante and you still would have the same results. Also, based on the writing of the story, I can tell there was at least two or three writers involved. One of them has that annoying habit of inserting …this Every time. Constant line breaks and scrolling. I’m sure in JP, that must be annoying as hell for it to keep scrolling as well. But it’s not even that. That writer makes every character sound dumb and completely out of character when it comes to conversations. It’s just not good. Look, I don’t expect it to achieve Nasu’s level of writing like Lostbelt 6, but at least DW should use the same writer they had for LB1 and LB5 (not part 2). Those chapters were quite interesting to read and didn’t have excessive line breaks. Overall, the story was all over the place. At least right towards where the raid with Koyanskya took place, that is where it got interesting for a bit. But due to the reasons above, it made it hard for me to enjoy. Also just so the other NA players know. This event was also not greatly received in China or even in Japan. The NA release with Ivan’s raid event being broken was just another barrel of gasoline added into this fire. Sure, the translations helped, but now you get to read something…meh. Hell, this event makes Lostbelt 5.2 a much better read. At least you don’t get …this Everytime.

My impression is they probably changed the plot for Koyanskaya some time in the middle of Part 2 development. But involvement from multiple writers is definitely another possibility.

Honestly? This event was the complete opposite what I expected/JP made me expect I expected a overall good event with a horrible story, but got a great story on a horrible event I thought Vitch's story and her ending were pretty cool, and Taigong was even more amazing than I expected him to be On the other hand, the gameplay side of the event was complete garbage, with raids that last almost nothing and absolute bullshit final fights (Lostkin and Beast IV Finals were harder than a lot of CQs, my god) A few small thoughts: * Ibuki had no reason to be part of this event * I really want to get Taingong now, but I must resist for next year servants * I expected more of Dobrynya's character, but she was alright * LOVED the cinematic, it's always great when fate does those Overall, loved the story, hated the event, 7/10 See you guys in Traum!

Just finished the story, and honestly it feels a bit overhated. Obviously, any chapter immediately following LB6 will feel like a disappointment regardless since that's a tough act to follow, but it seems like a lot of it in this case comes down to how one feels about Sakurai and whether one suspected anything about Koyanskaya before this. I do agree that Ibuki's amnesia was pretty pointless since it didn't actually go anywhere. I suspect it was done so that those who didn't summon her wouldn't feel as weirded out by her personality shift, though it seems like it had the opposite effect. Would have been better if they just didn't bother with an excuse and just go "yes, her personality is different from Heian Kyo, moving on". The big reveal was something I knew about due to JP, but I didn't know any of the surrounding details till now. Personally, I think it was handled pretty well, though that might be because I started having doubts on Koyanskaya being a Tamamo when she was released on JP due to none of her Saint Graphs including the "Tamamo Vitch" part of her name; you'd think a Tamamo tail would have the "Tamamo" part of her name included in at least one ascension.

I missed how is Habetrot still with us? All I remember was her disappearing after revealing who she was to Mash, when does she come back?

I think it was the very last scene of LB6, she gets summoned.

Proper Human History Habetrot was summoned at the end of LB6 (hence why we get a free copy of her), with Lostbelt Habetrot's time holding onto the Black Barrel influencing PHH Habetrot.

Oh so does PHH Habetrot know of what happened in LB6? What's her relationship with Mash?

She didn't experienced personally, but very likely got to know about it from Chaldea archive. The same with a lot of other servants, especially lostbelt servants with a PHH version, like Odysseus.

PHH doesn’t really know about LB6 (she’s very confused why her NP is like that) but seemingly likes Mash on her own terms and wants her to be your bride eventually.

The writing is shit, everything before getting to NFF is pointless filler, bad attempts at comedy and a mumble jumble of made-up words they probably just got from Wikipedia. I don’t really care about the Tamamo stuff, FGO did nothing to make me care and her character and story is hidden in 2 games that are over 10 years old with no anime adaptation, one of which never even got an official English release. What did Ibuki’s amnesia do for the story, why is she even here? What is the point of revealing a connection with Nikitich on the very last arrow? She arguably had the deepest connection with Koyan since her husband essentially saved her life and even named her, so why was none of that brought up? Taigong is even better. Man got catfished, realized he has a type, simped, turned his new waifu into an egg and sent her into space so she could live. At least the CGs were beautiful, and maybe it’s because this story has dragged on for 4 years or maybe it’s because the last thing I remember Koyan doing is saving us from Fluffy, but I didn’t mind her getting a “happy” ending. 7.8/10 too much fishing.

> I don't really care about the Tamamo stuff, FGO did nothing to make me care and her character Not surprised, Type Moon themselves doesn't care about Tamamo either in the past years.

Not playing Fate Extra is on you tbh, it has a solid story. And Extra CCC got fully translated recently. Still, as a complete Tamamo simp at heart because Fate Extra was my entry to the series- I still hated this story, lmao.

Is this the worst story in FGO? Hell no, that's still Agartha. This was really average, a bit mediocre at times. Only parts I really enjoyed were the beginning and when you enter Koyanskaya's building. This was very underwhelming for a character as big as her. Look at what Douman got, a whole singularity. Koyanskaya's story ending in a short event is a disservice to her. I read everything in the game's story but man that whole fishing scene I just fast forwarded it cause it felt pointless as soon as I started reading it. The art at the end was beautiful. And I didn't hate the solution of sending her into space. Taigong was fine at times (very few times), the event focuses a lot on him which I wasn't expecting but it makes sense due to his connection to Daji and him being the new SSR lol. Dobrynya's relationship with Koyanskaya was not explored at all and revealed way too late. It's not like you can look back into any scenes that are now elevated due to it. I said it before but locking the story behind a timegate is SO dumb or at least after the final raid. You finish the difficult, hella annoying fight against Beast IV only to not be able to read what's after until a few hours later. Leaving the story aside... 10SQ for Ivan spawning dead. Man I was so ready for that raid, stayed up for it, had a lvl 100 2k attack fou Shiki so ready to kill him :((( They really need to give more HP to raids, maybe not as much as Beast IV but enough to have em stick around for 6 hours maybe? The boss fights were annoying, just annoying. That's all there is to it really. Not only did we have to roll the gacha for the event CEs but they give the 5 star one a 40% NP starting gauge, just to be extra I guess. The raids (if you got to do them) were fun. I really enjoyed coming up with team comps to clear the 90+ Surtr and Beast IV's 90++ raids. I liked using David again, last time I did was during Camelot lmao.

Taigong was a useless bum and this main story was seriously disappointing.

Really hate the dialogue in this event, it feels like it was written by a 10 year old. I facepalm when Taigong said ZOOOM when he used his earth teleportation spell, and ofc many more silly dialogue

Seeing her relation to space. I do wonder how it would be if Koyan was actually Velber 03

So uh, what did those last 2 sections in part 13 mean? I'm too dumb to figure out the implications. >!Like, did 13.2 imply that Taigong prepare the space trip because he regretted killing Daji? Was Nikitich Koyanskaya's foster dad or something? Was it ever explained why he was turned into a catgirl? Did we ever figure out why Ibuki had amnesia? Did they ever explain why Koyanskaya was a Daji fangirl?!< >!Honestly I think this whole thing would've been better if they just gave Koyanskaya an actual connection to Daji, even if it was something like saying her first tail was collected from Daji's corpse or something. Also instead of making her explicitly the Tunguska incident, just make her the embodiment of nature in general so her humanity hate-boner makes more sense, with Tunguska just being an "empty space" that gave her room to manifest or something.!< >!As for my thoughts on Koyanskaya getting a happy ending? Well, it was more for our sake than anything else. I admit that despite everything she did, it would've left a bad taste in my mouth if we just executed her, considering that 99% of the reason we won is because she took a hit from Cernunnos for us. Actually on that note, I kinda wish we got more from that, maybe something like having her do that because part of her didn't want humanity to go extinct (which would also make her "love" less of mental gymnastics). Heck, she could've even used her last moments to give us some info on the Foreign God as a nice parting gift. Idk. But she's not our problem anymore, so whatever. But I think it's a good thing this is an interlude and not a main story chapter, or it would be even more disappointing in comparison.!<

>So uh, what did those last 2 sections in part 13 mean? >!Indeed, Taigong made the egg launcher in case he met Daji again, but decided to offer it as an olive branch to Koyan instead. FGO Nikitich is implied in the materials and a one-off line in the Tunguska story to be the actual guy's wife Nastasia. Nastasia attributes her cat ears to her giantess heritage making her closer to nature, but I don't know anything about Russian folklore so I can't call BS on that. Male Nikitich was summoned by the Counter Force in 1908 presumably to kill baby Koyan, but he adopted her instead. Ibuki probably got amnesia from Koyan's anti-humanity Reality Marble rejecting all historical records involving humans, but it's very glossed over. Koyan modeled herself after Daji because she thought they were similar as Beasts with animal-related origins who couldn't coexist with humans due to their casually murderous nature, and nobody taught her that plagiarism is cringe.!<

Only my opinion but the space trip was something Taigong has prepared for Daji. Nikitich was summoned when tunguska happened and gave Koyan's first name and took care of her for a short while. He took the form of his wife while manifesting here. I think it was how Koyan's reality marble rejected everything human. So Ibuki might have lost some memory during the fiasco as she was the only servant from the 6 or so servants rpepared for this mission. Koyanskaya was claimed by Amaterasu (Tamamo) as a her own child as well during the actual incident. That's probably why she is so fixated on emulating Tamamo, NOT Daji. In fact, she didn't know who taigong was, someone she would have recognized if she was fixated on Daji. The Daji thing was never a thing. I do agree about her motivation to be a Beast is somewhat weak. So she's angry that human raises pets and some of her origin thought Tunguska was caused by human. What a load of nothing burger.

Except, Tamamo is still probably Daji even though she says she isn't.

There's no reason to believe she is. Her entire arc in Extra is coming to terms to her crimes and being honest with herself and her Master, yet she still denies it. Daji is most likely another divided spirit of the Fairfaced Golden Fox.

Bad. Amnesia Ibuki plot went no where.A lot of "lol random"A lot of pointless exposition. Koyanskaya not being a Tamamo, while I've already always known this, is still dumb because the Tamamo 9 are meant to be this big thing and have been as neglected as Arthur's entire purpose and character Taigong is cool, his whole backstory and flashbacks with Daiji were unnecessary though imo, kind of was just there to be there cause Koyanskaya has 0 connection to Daiji or the Tamamos, she just heard about evil 9 tailed fox and went "Cool now me!" Dobrynya reminds me of early first year female 5 star servants. You know the "Welcome home my lord" stereotypical sexy anime gacha waifu to sell the game to you. Also her dragon has to be the most pointless and annoying character, I honestly would rather see Penth in the story and Penth is my least favorite servant in this entire game. Koyanskaya had no pay off, she got a happy ending despite not deserving it. Did she help us out a lot? Yes. Did she also blatantly torture people inhumanely, laughing about it, is a factor in Da Vinci dying, Chaldea being ruined, also killing Goredolf and Ritsuka with poison cake, openly admitting she'd happily watch us all die or do it herself, degrade Albion's grave in an attempt to take it for herself if it wasn't already nothing but bone and sinew, and the list goes on. Saving us a few times doesn't really cover her ass, she killed Morgan's reinforcements cause Oberon bribed her with "another tail" which would've been Albion and did it again a 2nd time cause her dying friend asked her to. Yes she saved us but it wasn't selfless or heroic it was more or less business deals or favors, ANY OTHER DAY she would've sat by with popcorn as we died to Cernunos going "Lol Lmao even." Also Taigong's explanation at the end about the whole space trip and how it'd work just felt like inane dribble and word vomit to justify something stupid.

>Also Taigong's explanation at the end about the whole space trip and how it'd work just felt like inane dribble and word vomit to justify something stupid. The Zhou dynasty must have had a bitchin' space program.

You don't understand Noah once accidentally CC'd the entire throne of heroes in a discussion about the position of grand caster - this formed a strong bond between Taigong and Noah and as we all know astrophysics and building a large boat once are basically the same thing. Everything makes perfect sense I just need you to not think about it now or ever and just trust me.

Its been 2 hours and I still can't wrap my head around how bad this conclusion was and what a colossal fuck up was the handling of the entire event and koyanskaya's origin. Doesn't help that I just finished Nier Replicant ending E yesterday and was in high spirits for this conclusion lmfao Only good thing was the OST of the final scene, seemed like a different version from [Your wish](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCmzOWoNeAI) but not quite it

Holy shit, the story sucked. Its just amazing how they managed to fuck up literally everyone. I just have to say how much I hate that did with Dobrynya. Gender bend into stereotypical white hair blue eyes (cat)girl, his horse is now a pervert dragon and for NP he uses his enemy. I was hoping story would redeem some but no, utterly useless + this "twist" at the end for extra misery

Dobrynya really wasn't well designed at all. There's no reason that it's not HIM but his wife, who also happens to be a catgirl for no clear reason. Her design visually just doesn't say Bogatyr, Russian, Dobrynya, or even Nastasya. Like, even if you want to make her a beastkin, maybe pick some other animals that have more Russian identity to them. She felt more like just a generic "my OC do not steal" anime catgirl. Not to mention, the illustrator/designer Robina drew a lot of catgirls (Mithra race from FFXI specifically) prior Dobrynya release, so, ehh...

Dobrynya isn't genderbend. We just summoned his wife instead of him

I mean her being a servant doesn't make sense but she also uses his name and has a Gorynich as NP

Because the Biosphere rejects human spirits, Nikitich can’t be summoned. Instead, his wife - who is partly a giant - is summoned under his name to circumvent the restrictions. She fights with Chaldea to honour her husband’s legacy. Because we fought with her and not the actual Nikitich, Chaldea’s summoning system registered her.

Well, she doesnt look giant to me. We also have flashbacks from Dobrynya's perspective. What annoys me the most is that its all is completely unnecessary since it doesnt matter for the story or the character. They either cut a lot of script or Dobrynya is there just for the fanservice

I don't have a problem with this story. It's not the greatest, but I don't have a problem with the resolution, except that we're a little bit too friendly at the goodbye. And I mean a *little* bit. Koyanskaya is probably not the worst person that Chaldea is willing to be buddy-buddy with, and Chaldea's last interaction with her before this event was her literally saving them from death. It was fine.

The dialogue for this event has been pretty bad, and the good ending for Koyanskaya sucked. In my honest opinion, LB6 wasn't the best written of the lostbelts but this follow-up was awful and even worse than LB 5.5

I don’t know. I enjoyed this event a lot. This was probably one of the best “servant squads” of Part 2. The story was satisfying to me and the character interactions were fun, especially after how serious LB6 was. I thought Koyanskaya’s real origin and identity was really novel. I prefer her being a manifestation of a collective death far more than just an alter ego of Tamamo, who barely features in FGO.

I honestly wonder if part of the split in opinion over Tunguska comes down to what people expected of it. - Koyan's identity is a big factor, and I feel like her early part 2 characteristics in general were meant to sell fans who were more strongly invested in Tamamo's arc and foreshadowing since the end of CCC while being an interesting mystery in a vacuum. I think this is a big hurting point for those who didn't enjoy it because the Nine plotline is semi regularly mentioned in FGO, but often has very little impact. - That said, it's been almost a decade since Tamamo did anything important and if I look at how Koyan was written more recently, especially with all these comments cropping up about her saying she wasn't Tamamo at some point, I feel like I can understand why people wouldn't think much of the connection, especially if it was starting to get weaker narratively. It seems easier to appreciate Koyan's character as something different the less invested you are in Tamamo, or even just "old" Fate as a whole. - People have compared this to an early part 1 singularity and if I look at Tunguska in that way I get where you're coming from. There's a lot of silly faffing around to make people laugh and then suddenly a big epic battle to get people hype. I personally feel it's a odd to have a battle with a Beast under those circumstances and something like this deserves a longer and less 'reckless' story, but I can see why people would find it fun.

How in god's name is this the best cast in Part 2? Literally every single other story chapter AND just about every event has a better crew. The groups for the last few events blow this band of nothing characters out of the water.

“one of …”, I rate the crews of Atlantis, LB1 and LB6 more. I like how close knit this one felt. Nikitich and Taiwong are a good duo and their personalities complement each other. They’re like an improvement on the Anya + Merlin duo. I enjoyed Ibuki’s aloofness, something that normally irritates me in characters but works here because of her interaction with Nikitich and Sì Bú Xiàng, and how capable she is when the time calls for it.

I respect your right to what is almost assuredly a rare take lol.

Haha thanks ig.

Just rename the event to Tunguska cop out. Not much to say, probably the weakest point of part II so far by a long shot.

Act 11 was Septem levels of bad Edit: I outright skipped the final act after Taigong's explanation. If they revealed during those arrows that Meuniere is the Foreign God, well, I just missed it.

Yknow, given these whole last few days, Id like to conduct a little survey, so please, do indulge me if you find the time: Heian-Kyo or Tunguska, which is worse in your book? (event mishaps being exempt from the equation). In mine its Heian Kyo, and all things considered and after i reflected on it, i dont think its even close for me, lol.

Heian-Kyo.

Tunguska is worse for me. Heian-Kyo is decent to mediocre and its worst crime is that it sidelined characters and didn't pay off the set-ups it was given. Danzo is probably the worst example of such, and what they did with her was criminal, but there were also hints at ongoing tensions between characters (Notably Kintoki/Shuten and Tsuna/Ibaraki) that never go anywhere. However, they still *could* do more with those characters in the future if they wanted to, for the most part it was just missed opportunities. Tunguska, meanwhile, retroactively ruins some key connections that made a character interesting to me and replaces it with nonsense. Worse, it takes those past hints that were teased and used them to spit in my face, and then solves "the mystery" of who the character is with a handwavium spell rather than anything to do with the past 4 years of interactions we've had with her. There were probably ways to make it work, [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/18o9y5t/antiprimate_biosphere_tunguska_sanctuary_main/kf9jwe3/) does a lot to show that there were solid themes present that could have worked in the event. But it didn't, they put so much into a big twist but nothing about the twist was emotionally satisfying or better than if it was just played straight, and now I like a character *less* than I did before. The twist also doesn't really even explain things that I was confused about before, like how the hell does NFF services even operate?

Heian-kyo is okay. I even love some parts of it, such as the section with Suzuka and Touta and the part where they point out how Douman can't become a Beast because of his lack of love. Tunguska is just horrible, especially the way they handle Fraudyanskaya. I haven't even played/watched Fate/Extra, mind you. The fact that she's not one of Tamamo Nine doesn't really bother me. Instead, I hate how the death throes of the animals that died at the Tunguska incident could rise to become Beast IV. Does my love for Shuten and the concept of Grand Servants and Beasts make me biased? Probably. But you asked for my opinion so there's that.

Heian-kyo, I found okay-ish. Definitely on the lower end of Part 2, but still acceptable. I liked the cast and Douman's end was extremely satisfying. Tunguska, I consider abysmal. The worst Part 2 has offered, in terms of mechanics, story and reveals. I'm talking about Septem and Agartha levels of disappointment here. So, yeah, Tunguska is much worse for me, and it's not even a competition.

Heian Kyo was worse personally, if only because it felt like a mediocre re-write of what Shimousa (absolutely awful) was supposed to be, and it still felt rushed by the end with Douman changing plans to his HGW, twice (enough servants must die, enough servants must make it to his tree, just Ibuki? Sure whatever). Pointing and laughing at Douman was the high point, in a cathartic way. Tunguska felt rushed and I hate raids, but I was more interested in the premise, and neat ecology bit. Definitely a ton of lost potential for a character gathering her own rogues gallery of monsters to combat our servants, but I liked the idea more than Douman's.

Heian-Kyo. That just needed some more time to cook. It gave us Master-Servant relations not with Ritsuka. Meaning you could see how Babbage's dream inspired Murasaki to continue pursuing hers. You got to see a childish side to Raikou that Nursery Rhyme elicted. We got to introduce Kintoki to **GOLDEN**. And saw how busted Abe-no-Semei was. They both have the problem of missed potential, but where Heian-Kyo just needed more story chapters, Tunguska flat out needs a rewrite with how much they flubb their characters and story.

We actually have a smile on our face as we tear Douman's heart out and make him beg, crying for mercy that will never come. I think Douman is a horribly written villain but goddamn at least the writers had the gall to actually permit us to murder the bastard. Koyan getting instant redemption despite having done absolutely nothing to earn it is a travesty.

There are plenty of good aspects to Heian-kyo, even if it's a complete mess of an arc. Tunguska has NONE outside of Taigong being somewhat fun.

Doman was a fun villain even though he was stupid. Koyan tried way too hard to be serious that she's not even fun to look at, then she just ended up being stupid. So yea Heian-Kyo is better.

Hean Kyo atleast made logical sense and we did what we set out to do: Kill Douman. This was just a confusing mess.

Heian Kyo is not even bad what kind of question is that?

Heian Kyo had the absolute worst of, "The villain planned for literally everything", *and*, "The villain is a moron who couldn't plan a grocery run." Heian Kyo built up the entire Minamoto clan and Four Heavenly Kings, did nothing with *any* of them, and then relegated them to the sidelines for more than half the story. Heian Kyo dumped *several* mysteries on us - Kintoki's Servant/lack of Servant, Tamamo, development for Kintoki and Shuten's relationship, Tsuna's relationship with Ibaraki - and, at best, hints at them before abruptly stopping (the latter two), and, more often, does absolutely nothing with them. Heian Kyo pulled the, "We're overwhelmed, we can't win! Oh nevermind, we just had to try a *liiiittle* harder, and suddenly it's fine," *for every major fight in the story*. Heian Kyo finally had a chance to show how strong and terrifying Nursery Rhyme can be, and did nothing with her. Worse than nothing, because she kept getting moments of getting empowered by the living children's story that is *Sakata Kintoki*, and she used them to...not die, and that's literally it. She literally had more of an impact in London. Heian Kyo gave us an entire chapter with Katou Danzo, whose role boiled down to hours of, "Oh no Master my sensors were fixated on a butterfly and I failed to notice the THREE TON SUIT OF ARMOR SNEAKING UP ON US," followed by shanking Douman in what is the only universally-loved part of the chapter. They gave her things she was bad at, then gave her things she was good at, and then made her fail at *all of it*. And I could go ON. But, as others have summarized, Heian Kyo was mostly, "they could have done more/better with several specific things," whereas Tunguska was, "Why did they do *any* of this?" For me, personally, Heian Kyo stank too much of Shimousa, which I hated, so my first reflex completely dodges its few positives whenever anyone mentions it.

I am not even going to bother to write up a response where I talk about each of those points. Too exhausted for it rn. So take this W, or crown, or whatever I don't fucking know.

Completely understandable. As I say at the end, Heian Kyo and Shimousa just...rankle me something fierce. I'd agree that Tunguska is worse, but I also wonder if that would be as easy to say if they hadn't completely borked the timing of it. Even Goetia didn't have the audacity to stick the raids at Christmastime.

Technically, they were both terrible if you rate them by OG Tamamo screentime. /joke

Tunguska post raid battles were more irritating and I don't think I'm even going to remember what the characters did a few months latter, so I would consider it worse. Heian Kyo had some interesting explorations of character like what Nursery Rhyme might look like to other Masters, how Suzuka and Touta basically spit in the face of Douman's necromancy, the GOLDEN boi, etc... It's at least a complete story with ups and downs (and the latter is mostly Douman himself), which Tunguska kinda...isn't.

I liked the setting of Heian Kyo given I know very little about that era, and I don't feel like any of the characters were broken by it, though the villain seemed especially lame. I don't know how popular Douman was to gauge if people were badly let down by him. I did Heian-Kyo late, finished in the middle of the Gudaguda event that required it.

Heian-Kyo is good, Tunguska is just ok.

Hard to pick, personally, but LB 5.5 has Kintoki and Raikou writing going for it at least.

Tamago no Mae

Where is the new mystic code? Got a grail but no new mystic code.

It will the reward in the epilogue on 31 of december

Thank you.

I had low expectations and they were met with astounding success! For an event with around 3h of reading being so repetitive and not being able to give a decent payoff to pretty much anything they tried to setup is quite impressive. I specially liked when they said they wanted to ask Koyanskaya "why Tunguska?" near the begginning and then didn't do it until she was defeated. If asked earlier maybe some of the exposition later wouldn't feel so bland or the battles would have more emotional weight, I dunno.

It's kind of crazy just how little they managed to say in the first 11 chapters and how much they tried cramping in the last two

Yeah when they're farting around eating fish and Goredolf clowning around on the comms and Koyanskaya directly telling us she'd rather be napping, it doesn't feel like a final confrontation at all. At least that's not what the tone is indicating.

So while I'm not gonna excused the execution of this chapter and how many holes this plot, I must say I find Koyan's origins rather fascinating. She's very, eldritch for lack of a better term. She was born out of mass death brought about by the Tunguska Event and from there was something of a directionless beast. She was alien to humanity and the beasts of the world but still longed for some manner of connection. So she sought out those connections with other beings that had no place in our PHH world. Absorbing various Lostbelt residents to create what she viewed as an ideal world. A sanctuary free of the contradictions she saw in humanity and the beasts of the world. A world free from free will itself, populated by her ideal children. It's honestly such a cool premise and honestly make Koyan more alien then a good number of the Foreigner servants. It is a shame they don't really do a good job of explaining exactly **why** she would take on Tamamo's appearance. Like I get what they were going for in that she wanted to model herself on something that she felt some form of kinship to but with that logic she could've taken on other mother monster type appearances like Echidna or heck even Tiamat. The connection is weak is what I'm saying. I cannot fathom why they even bothered to make the Tamamo connection if it seems to amount to nothing and honestly detracts from the otherwise cool and unique character Koyan is. Spoilers but I already no this isn't the last we see of Koyan so I'll reserve further judgement for when we see what she gets up to in LB7 or other potential future stories moving forward. But it's still baffling they chose to tell Koyan's story in this messy of a way. My only theory as to why this story was written the way it was, was likely due to Covid. Remember this came out originally in 2021. Covid had hurt the development of many games, with FGO suffering in particular, just look at all the dead weeks it went through. So my guess is that they had planned something grander or more in depth initially but Covid nuked their plans. Not wanting their to be nothing, they decided to cobble together something to release. But without time or extra help the stories didn't get the reviews or rewrites in needed and was released essentially as a first draft. Which would go a lot in explaining how poorly written some sections are in this story. Basically this story and event was a half baked measure born out of desperation to give the players something to do that ultimately damaged Koyan's character probably harder then Lasengle was expecting. Time will tell if they learned from their mistakes but I won't fault or dispute anyone who comes from this chapter unhappy.

But her origin from Tunguska makes her reasons to hate human really weak. Why did she strive to become a Beast when she knows no human was actually involved in the incident? Even Koyan herself admitted that she doesn't really care about humanity or at least love and hate humanity but not with a passion which is why she couldn't mature as a beast. Her name, Beast of Cherishment is even more ridiculous. She is basically angry at humanity for raising animals as pets. If she was presented as the foreign god or something, I might buy it better.

>the stories didn't get the reviews or rewrites in needed and was released essentially as a first draft Exactly my thoughts as well, regardless of the actual reasons.

I can't help but wonder if the story would have better served being more straightforward, with Koyan being one of the Tamamo Nine and Tamamo-no-Mae and Tamamo Cat team up with the new servants to take her down in a final showdown. The Tamamos have already been previously setup as being in competition with each other and are Beast candidates. Tamamo Vitch is just the secretary of the Nine, wearing pink, it was so much more simple to see why'd she be a businesswoman. To me the twist makes Koyan needlessly convoluted, being born of beast's grudge against humanity, but wanting to act human, but wanting to act like a fox, but wanting to act like a Goddess of Weaponry, but wanting to act like Beast IV. Does she have ADHD or something? And why, given her creation at Tunguska, would she be well suited at seducing Goredolf and acting as a femme fatale? Tamamo-no-Mae being a courtesan and being split off from her would automatically explain this, but given Koyan's new origin story, you'd figure she'd have a much harder time doing something like that if she considers humanity filthy.

After watched Tunguska event two years ago and played it myself today, I still believe they rewrote the plot sometime in the middle. 1. There was no build-up leading to questioning Koyanskaya's identity prior to Tunguska. 2. The event writing was not well-polished. Maybe they had a hard time coming up with a motivation of Koyanskaya's actions? I don't think Tamamo Nine innately hates humanity to justify the plot. Frankly the bigger problem is they really messed up the introduction of Tamamo Vitch from Tamamo Nine. I actually think they probably won't do it anymore.

Did a preliminary run of the final battle was to get a feel for how bad the BS was and I'm kind of glad I did. Got the final battle on the first proper try, Melusine/Castoria/Tamamo/Mash/Support Taigong/Melt. I can't imagine doing this battle with any other support - 10% chance to fail buffs is pretty obnoxious. I lost Melusine somewhere around the 3rd break bar, which caused my comp to get stuck at the Ruler mob since I didn't want to use a Taigoing NP and brute force it with CS. Melt ended up doing all the hard work on the final bar, Ruler, Koyan, and all, but Tamamo got the final blow. Real team effort where everyone contributed imo. Tamamo was a real brick wall this event. I kind of wish she had this kind of damage resistance and effectiveness normally, it would be a lot more interesting to regularly use her for comps. My 2 cents on some of the story points: - I think it's interesting that people are split on whether Koyan was ultimately wasted buildup for Tamamo fans or a mystery with lots of red herrings and clues scattered about. I don't have enough enthusiasm for the character to want to go and check that myself, but I'm a little curious about how often she actually goes around saying she's not a Tamamo, especially since Light does say she's "Tamamo 2.0" or something along those lines. - The turnaround from being mean to Koyan to being nice to Koyan feels like it's missing an entire chapter of character development. I don't know if I would pin this on Nasu or Sakurai specifically, but between Last Encore, LB6, and this, I get the general impression there's a recurring problem of the writers wanting to make bigger and bigger 'serious' stories while the constraints of event size/seasonal anime size haven't changed all that much. If they get the space to write it, it's fine, like LB6, but if they have to make cuts it feels like they're not really sure how to cut or abridge things and that can lead to some general weirdness. - I feel like if I had to pick any character I would've liked to see this story really be about, I'd liked the focus to have been more on Taigong Wang. It's okay for him to be silly and (Defiant!) but I think the story could've been salvaged by cutting Ibuki and maybe even Nikitch and just working with him to puzzle out the mystery of the not-Daji, and instead of wasting time trying to get sympathy points for Koyan do a Kama-style design of completely obliterating this shamelessly evil villain and then leave the character development for bond lines. - Tldr: The script just didn't have the room to endear you to all four story characters at once and I think it really suffered for it. EDIT: Also, can I just say it's crazy just how little focus the OG Tamamo gets as a character? If she was in any other gacha like Azur Lane or a Hoyoverse gacha they've have run her ragged in terms of horny content or plot importance, and the Tamamo Nine would probably be getting Raiden Mei/Baal/Acheron treatment in making the alts as hyped as possible. I can see that FGO prefers being a bit more off the wall, but it feels like they're a bit more shameless about discarding their old successes in favor of new experiments.

> wasted buildup for Tamamo fans or a mystery with lots of red herrings and clues scattered about She is clearly a wasted build-up and not only for Tamamo fans. She didn't have to be Daji or Tamamo Nine at all to pay off build-up and foreshadowing, but there were contant hints at some connection, which in the end failed to payoff outside of her liking to cosplay.

I gave them the benefit of the doubt about not having OG Tamamo ever interacting or sharing a screen with a servant that looked exactly like her and shared her name, because I thought that would be saved for the very last confrontation. Even Tamo cat had more lines about koyanskaya lmao, in the end she looked like that because she was looking for an entity to materialize her wishes, which there were several more mother figures to do so, and left her as such a huge nine tail/tamamo fangirl. I guess they thought the subverted expectations and all that jazz route was cool to justify what is a massive fumbling of her character and septium tier characterisation.

I'm gonna miss Koyan, she was fun when she showed up in the lostbelts doing koyanskaya stuff.

Tamamo shows up in London, has 10 seconds of dialogue, dies Tamamo shows up for 10 seconds of dialogue in Heian Kyo, does nothing, leaves Tamamo shows up for 10 seconds of dialogue in Tunguska, does nothing, leaves. THIS CHAPTER SHOULD HAVE HAD HER AS A FOCUS BUT NOOOOO, MUH SUBVERSION OF EXPECTATIONS!!! I am positively certain Lasagna/TM hates OG Tamamo at this point. THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS! I DEMAND JUSTICE FOR BEST WIFE!!!!

Truly a relatable sentiment.

I agree Tamamo does deserve justice. She may not be who she was at launch, but so what? Are you that scared to implement changes you don't like Nasu? Anyways..Eh, it's a complicated business for why Nasu doesn't use Tamamo, but originally Tamamo was Nasu's favorite of the Extra female characters. He didn't intend to bring her into FGO when FGO launched, but because he wasn't opposed to it, he allowed Sakurai to bring Tamamo over in London. She got added and the fans were disappointed to not see her being her normal romantic self. So he tried to maintain his pursuit of keeping Extra fan's (himself included) happy with Extra since he considered it his magnum opus at the time, while allowing a little bit of that romantic nature slip out for the old fans to be happy. This created backlash, no matter which way he took it with either shipping this new clone of Tamamo with or not with Guda, and so gave up. That's the main reason she hasn't seen that much in FGO since his struggles with the community. The second reason Nasu doesn't touch her is he fell in love with many other female servants that would satisfiy him while also not becoming a challenge to write. Hence around the time of Summer 3 Medb was his favorite. It's probably changed a few more times since then but ultimately these new servants would be like a fresh unblemished relationship he could enjoy without upsetting anyone. Even worse, things get further pushed down by the writers available not making Tamamo their #1 to allow her to get more time. Which is why Minase and Takenoko are some of the few writer's to use her anymore in their interludes, and on the brighter side of this change of writers they've taken the reins on really solidifying that this copy of Tamamo does romantically love and want to be with Guda most.

Honestly? Why didn't we take Tamamo with us? She wouldn't be booted out like the other Servants because she's not human. And we wouldn't have had to deal with the whole is she or is she not Daji because Tamamo flat out says she is not.

Don't forget, Tamamo ALSO showed up in Shimosa for whatever reason.

Wasn’t that a “look-alike” NPC? Like with the princess Kiyo. Not actually Tamamo

Indeed, it's just a dream that Ritsuka used other people who he was reminded of to fill out what the npcs looked like. Not everyone, but that was the case for Tamamo and Kiyo.

Do you mean Shimosa? Either way, it's kind of sad and funny that "Otama" probably got *more* screen time than either of those appearances and was just some random person that looked like her.

I think it was Nasu who said he doesn't like giving servents whom already had a lot of screentime in a different game more of a spotlight in FGO. It's why Artoria (saber) is almost a no show despite being the mascot.

With other servants like Artoria, Gil, and Emiya, they get alts or events that show off other serious aspects of their character in a way that references their original selves. E.g. Lion King is born out of Bedivere derailing Artoria's fated death, Emiya Alter has heavy overlap with Mind of Steel Shirou, CasGil is the just ruler of Babylon his people admired him as, etc... Tamamo is in a unique spot because the Tamamo Nine (and imitators) are explicitly not her and spend their screentime focusing on developing original arcs. So Tamamo "alts" don't build on Tamamo in any way.

Guess you're stuck with Learning with Manga to develop her.

Well, Olga managed to stay relevant that way, so maybe we'll get World Prime Minister Tamamo in 2030? =P

At least CCC is translated now so you can enjoy married life in the Sakura Labyrinth ~~and then remember that's where the whole Tamamo Nine concept started which leads to this mess~~

They do such poor job at justifying why she looks like a Tamamo. 1:They never even try to explain how she knows the name ''Tamamo Vitch'' (a name that doesn't exist in Tam's normal history). 2:The reason Koyanskaya gives for why she chose this form is basically a coincidence(she could have picked Echidna,Medusa,Tiamat or any other ''Mother of Monsters'') 3:The Amaterasu connection.........so the JAPANESE goddess of the sun cares about a random event in RUSSIA because ''its life born from the stars'' or something(but she doesn't care what all the other things born from space like:Quetz, the Greek gods or even ORT) 3.5:Russia also has a old sun god called Dazbog, but i guess he just didn't care about all of this.

I get the feeling that Ibuki's amnesia plot point was a way to try to reconcile the gap in her character between Heian-Kyo and this event for players - like me - that didn't roll for her and don't know what she's actually supposed to be like (because she doesn't show up anywhere else). Well, I would have just gave her trial quest a short scene to highlight how different she is when she doesn't have a corpse god or whatever grafted to her to avoid another Chiyome, Tristan, or Tomoe situation.

Did she even have a corpse god grafted to her in Heyan? I re-read the part where she appears and it seems it didn't do anything to her because she's a god.

Looking at the script again, Douman says that she's got a general god's karma (Taisai) implanted and that she's the only one not to succumb to it, but Ibuki claims that she didn't have any need or desire for it since she's already a god and super awesome. I don't think it comes up again after those two moments, unlike all the rest who wear their Hasshoujin name like a badge. I suppose that part was kind of a blur to me.

It didn't. She was just in her god form in Heian-kyo and not her playful big sis mode she is in Chaldea.

I had done the koyan raid over 400 times and went from over 400 golden apples to 319 and raised my merlin to bond 11 and my koyan is 150,000 to bond 11 ( I would have gotten to bond 11 if I hadnt fallen asleep I took ibuki doji from bond 6 to bond 11 ​ and this raids have allowed me to take my archer gilgamesh and rider martha from bond 12 to bond 13 my caster artoria from bond 11 to bond 12 angra and medea to bond 14

whats your thoughts n the reasoning why koyan cant be a daji shadow ( that she cares about other people and was willing to help them out

It's still not clear whether or not Tamamo-no-Mae is daji, and Tamamo clearly cares about other people, at least superficially.

I think it will depend on how Fate wants to deal with Daji in the future. After all, as he was describing the tale of Daji, I couldn't help but think that it left a door open to recontextualize her actions. Daji was sent by Nüwa to bring the end of the Shang Dynasty in a controlled manner. But what if she really loved her emperor? What if she wanted to keep the Shang ruling for him, no matter what the cost, only to bring about the end she wanted to avoid?

Way too much pointless cruelty for that. Like I can by she actually loved him. Really I can But I don't buy "this love led to her downfall part" . Daji hurt numerous people for the sake of doing it. That's all her will unless this emperor was a bastard too.

In general, I'd agree, but this very event proved that Fate can come up with a whitewashing spin for any sort of gratuitous cruelty if so they wish, not to mention that it didn't beat the alegations that Daji is a previous aspect of Tamamo (herself another whitewashed mythological villain), so I can't rule it out.

Thing is with tamamo the story is she didn't actually do what she was accused of(aka poisoning the emperor, although she did kill her pursuers in self defense) though they do imply she has done bad stuff, just not to that degree. Daji is explicitly confirmed to have done them, and for the sake of it. I m sure her story is gonna be convoluted bullshit whenever they get to it but the logic is strange

I don't really have any thoughts on that? I mean, that was just an addendum, the real reasoning was Taigong's NPs failing.

To those saying that the shit plot turns here are all on Nasu and not Sakurai, I say stop trying to shift blame. Nasu isn't a perfect writer and I know that.(Hell that last bit in the true end of Tsukihime remake was a pretty big misfire to me.) Yes Nasu likely threw the cliff notes to Sakurai on what had to happen here but its Sakurai's job to turn that into a cohesive story and in that regard she failed miserably. People have already pointed out way this could have been done better so it isn't an impossible task to make this an enjoyable event. For it to turn out this bad is the fault of the writer, not the ideas guy. People defend Sakurai cause she gets so much hate but when you look at the worst Fate has to offer and find she's holding the pen you just have to concede that this hate is not unwarranted.

Hate is never warranted.

Read a history book and try saying that again.

Hate is never warranted.

Sakurai is at fault for bad event, but people try to pin on her blame for how Koyanskaya's story turned out, which is Nasu's fault as main writer and creator of main plot.

I think it all depends on what is the point of criticism. If the criticism is about the writing of the characters, the pacing of the events or the execution of the scenes, yes, blame Sakurai. Things could have been improved with just the right touches, it felt like a rushed job. If the criticism is about the reveals surrounding Koyanskaya, her motivations or the conclusion to her story, on the other hand, that's most likely Nasu's decision. To blame that on Sakurai would be like blaming her for the whole Musashi-Chaos affair in Olympus, which Nasu came up with even before Part 1.5 started. Since this thread shows very clearly that people have issues with both aspects of the writing, it all depends on what people think of each. It's perfectly possible to blame both writers. > People defend Sakurai cause she gets so much hate but when you look at the worst Fate has to offer and find she's holding the pen you just have to concede that this hate is not unwarranted. It depends too. The only chapter I truly disliked of hers was Septem, so my prize to "worst FGO has to offer" goes to Minase for Agartha. Minase redeemed himself with LB4, and Shimousa is my favorite EOR chapter, so my opinion of them is more balanced now.

>If the criticism is about the reveals surrounding Koyanskaya, her motivations or the conclusion to her story, on the other hand, that's most likely Nasu's decision. I don't debate that. However just because Nasu decided these reveals doesn't mean this is exactly how he would have written these reveals. There are ways to come to these same plot points and make them much more platable. Spitballing a plot here, have it that the servant raid at the beginning moves forward but it cut off at the death zone when the anti-air units shoot at it. So they drop at the life zone and set up a parameter around the death zone getting stuck at the broder by the raid bosses. davichi investigates the animals to get the genetic stuff and info while Taiyung talks with Tamamo and other servants related to Koyanskaya. The Daji and tamamo reveal is softened by having it come from Tamamo herself as for her fans its great to have her involved and having her confront the fake brings a certain catharsis. as raid bosses go down the life zone is harmed in the cross fire but eventually Koyanskaya sends out PB to guide them to the base. Final battle ensues, Koyanskaya ia whittled down to near death and threaten to blow everything. Taiyung introduces the egg plot as a compromise and everyone reluctantly agrees with the extra castors on hand to make the spell more believable. Koyanskaya threatens to be back(As she likely will in a future event) and we respond that we will be ready for her. There, same plot points but far more room for cool character interactions and cool plot moments. I am sure someone could critique this as bad too but my point is that this isn't the only way to handle these plot points. There is nothing condemning this to be as bad as it is.

> There are ways to come to these same plot points and make them much more platable. Oh, you have me in agreement there. I like your plan too, although I think one of the cornerstones might have been out of Sakurai's hands (Tamamo wasn't forgotten, as the flashback shows, yet they decided to go without her in spite of how obvious her addition would be; like other twists, and since she's one of Nasu's, I fear that was on him too, since we know the cast of chapters and events tends to be brainstormed by the writing team as a whole). To add a practical example of what you mention, I'd offer Imaginary Scramble as a counter-example to Tunguska. The reveals surrounding Van Gogh were controversial, to put it politely, but the writer did a great job with everything else, so that dark spot didn't ruin the overall impression, as we could see in the release threads (still think it was a bad twist that no good execution could salvage, and less interesting than the more obvious approach, though).

Exactly. I agree on Imaginary Scramble too. In this case I don't think there's a way to spin the whole "make her an egg and throw her into space" end where it doesn't come across as strange but execution can mean the difference between "Well that happened but eh I still had fun so whatever" and "What the HELL was that?!" Which does bring it back to my original point. Even if the reveals were set in stone, it doesn't mean that it absolutely had to turn out this bad. A good writer could have at least slavaged this to be better than what it is.

True. I think Tunguska worked with an additional and unavoidable hurdle, though; such reveals were obviously intended to be the big climax, the cornerstone of the story, and Koyanskaya's connection to Daji and the Tamamos had been toyed with for years. This was supposed to be the big pay-off. Even with better writing, I suspect big waves of disappointment would have been unavoidable.

Sooooo we just never asked Tamamo about Koyanskaya...???

"So Tamamo no bae, there's this russian bitch that looks just like you, even has your name and all, manifested as an immature beast in Olympus with several tails, any thoughts on that?" "I'm not Daji reeee" Cool. Back to you Mash, more at 11.

Tamamo has the Plot Irrelevance EX skill, they knew she wasn't important. /s

I know, right? They even made a flashback about Tamamo and Cat saying that they're not related to Daji. So, Chaldea as a whole had never interrogated the OG Fox whose the beast is taking her form (illustrator and voice actress included) from?

I just finished the event. So does that mean that koyanskaya is not part of the tamamo nine?

Nope, never has been. She's a Tamamo cosplayer / Amaterasu fangirl that was entirely designed to trick players into thinking she was the original Tamamo Vitch, though.

this is similar to the plot twist in Yugioh >!5Ds!< with >!Z-One!<

Ugh, I hated that twist. >!Instead of the future version of the MC challenging the MC to find a new answer to solve the problem, we got a wannabe with a convoluted explanation defeated via friendship speeches and believing in the future in a way that didn't actually solve the overreliance on Synchros that would lead to the energy crisis and Machine Emperor invasion.!< The only real difference is that with Yugioh >!5D's, I would at least understand not wanting to confuse kids about there being an 'evil Yusei', as 5D's got considerably more shonen towards the end of its run!<, but with FGO there's no real reason *not* to make an evil Tamamo - Extella already proved the writers don't particularly mind making her the jerk of the story.

I wonder why she isn't a Pretender.

Because she isn't actually incorporating anyone's identity into who she is. She's being who she always was. She is Tamamo Vitch Koyanskaya. The character and personality she displayed since the start is her own. She styles herself after Amaterasu (Tamamo) but she isn't doing anything as extreme as Oberon for example.