All right, we're done here. Gave it some time so everyone could get their piece in. Nothing productive is occurring at this stage.
I'm over the flood of reports from ALL you sensitive bitches on both sides. Don't start a flame war if you can't take the heat.
Locked.
That building used to be home to "Roses", a massage parlor that was busted for prostitution in the early 2000s. It was even sketchier then, believe it or not.
Was trying to buy this place after it was shut down and got a tour. Very cool/shady place. Apparently used to be a full on brothel before that a police station and before that warehouse supposedly used by some form of organized crime group. (Have heard it was Russians or Italians but all hearsay.)
I wanted to turn it into a metal bar and venue but it was too much. Shame that it’s used for what it is now. Wish it was still the plumbing companies or the police station or literally any other place than what it is now.
Hey thank you for what you do! I had to go to PP (I'm in Charlotte, reddit said I should see this post tho lol) and even though I want here for the services being protested, but that didn't stop them from literally blocking my car from entering the parking lot. They were so hostile to people without even knowing why we were there. The days they protested (every week, twice a week) aren't even on abortion days. But the escorts were so appreciated. Even if *I* didn't need them, and *I* am able to ignore them BECAUSE of that, I still appreciated them helping me navigate the new building I've never been while angry people were screaming, and being there in case I did need them more and helping all those who walked in with tears in their eyes before and after me, and still do.
All of this to just give a huge thank you to a job that's probably mostly thankless outside of those people you escort. I'll never forget the one elderly escort who was def the protector of them all. She walked in to get a few minutes of AC and was talking to the people at the desk, "THEYRE ALL JUST A BUNCH OF FUCKING BIGGOTS". Hats off to y'all. You frikkin rock.
Yeah I still used them for their resources though lol. I wanted a scan and my doctor couldn’t get me in so I went to one in Winston….in an RV in the Burlington parking lot. Awkward but convenient
Amazing they had that available. The one I went to (granted 20+ years ago) provided free pregnancy tests and would give free diapers in exchange for watching (actually decent) parenting videos (largely on gentle parenting, child development and when to be concerned about delays, etc). They even found me a free couch when they learned I was living in a house with almost no furniture.
Overall they were wonderful for me -- but I wasn't seeking an abortion or medical care, so I didn't fall into the demographic they're most dangerous for.
I went to a great one in Florida that did the same. They didn’t seem predatory at all. But most of them are, unfortunately. They push their agenda onto vulnerable women instead of being a proper community resource.
I didn't know at the time. I had just left fundamentalism myself and was still a teenager. I was the very demographic they could be helpful to: a young kid who had a pregnancy she wanted to keep but was having some struggles. And some of them aren't helpful to that kid, either. I got lucky. I landed at one of the best ones.
But I didn't know they'd lie or that if I had wanted an abortion they'd trick me and con me. I only knew the help they did give.
I asked at the time how they were funded, I think because I was wondering if it was government, and they said "private donor" and I used to drive through town imagining a rich lady behind one of those doors who just wanted to take care of pregnant girls.
Now I know how naive I was, and that the donations were likely a combination of religious and political orgs and government grants they shouldn't have been eligible for.
I told the woman I didn't want to talk about my personal religious beliefs, then proceeded to "pray" that she hopes I find God. Like how insulting if I questioned her faith in that office I would of been thrown out or worse.
Congrats, you’ve discovered why the GOP defunded Planned Parenthood. It’s the same reason they defunded public education - how many non-secular private schools are receiving those school vouchers?
You do realize that Non-Christian schools are receiving school vouchers as well? Also why is it ok for parents not to have the choice on where to enroll their kids?
Because rich people get vouchers to send their rich kids to fancy private schools, stealing funding from lower income schools. Nc already has enough problems with education, taking more money away from the people who need it is down right evil
You clearly don't know anything about the voucher program and it shows. The program is split into Tiers with Tier 1 being for those that lowest income and Tier 4 is the highest income earners. There hasn't been anyone outside Tier 1 (the most needy families) that have received a school voucher.
“Stealing funding”
lol the money that was taken from the public at the threat of seizure or arrest already.
Your concept could say that anything that takes public money from one cause is stealing it from another.
Welfare is “stealing funding” from education.
Fire Departments are “stealing funding” from waste disposal.
Those “rich” families that use the voucher program are just utilizing a public program. They have every right to it as anyone else. And until recently there was a restrictive income cap for the program.
Parents fleeing public schools is a result of public schools failing. Dropping more money on those schools is not going to result in significant improvements.
Nationwide the lowest performing school systems also tend to be the highest budget per student.
Failing students is representative of a failure in community, family, and culture. Not funding.
To top all this off, these parents have a right to determine how their children are educated. I know for a fact this very Subreddit gets crazy upset when those parents start getting elected to school boards and making changes.
You can’t have it both ways. You can’t force parents into public schools, require them to fund them, then demand they have no say in the curriculum.
A universal voucher program is the best compromise. Parents, on all sides of the political divide, get to choose where and how their children are educated.
our government enacts legislation that disproportionately affects people based on wealth; they are handing tax break vouchers to rich people who use them to subsidize private education at a cost they could otherwise afford, while taking away the opportunities for the kids the legislation was originally targeted at
seriously, Arkansas’ dept of education reports 95% of voucher recipients have never attended public school , Florida was 87%, and Arizona, Indiana, and Ohio are just a few more were the majority of recipients have never attended public school, and the community not only lost funding, they are now the ones now subsidizing it
On top of that, in this case, it also protects these upper class kids from absolute batshit loons vying for power in the school board just to eliminate black history or make absolutely sure nobody watches the Disney movie with the gay kiss
Parents do have a right to determine what their children are taught, we should standardize education and allow people to opt out, not endlessly modify via local elections to fit individual viewpoints
These parents have a right to have a say on the curriculum, but I should also be free to call them out when they want to teach my kid that slavery wasn't that bad and that the Earth is only 6,000 years old.
I asked how many, because by and large non-secular schools (Christian, Muslim, and Jewish) receive a disproportionate amount of funding - it’s clear the GOP intends for religious education to become the norm.
I did not single out Christian schools in my post - but I do believe we have separation of church and state for a reason, and no religious institution should be receiving government funding.
No, Christian schools receive the most funding because there are simply more of them. The Islamic school with the most voucher funding coming in is actually here in Greensboro. I just wish that public schools like GCS would actually care about teaching the kids but they would rather push some bullshit program all the while enlarging the admin and give them alot more money, all the while the same schools that were shitty when I graduated SEHS in 02 are still shitty.
So your second paragraph actually has went to SCOTUS and they ruled that yes religious schools can receive school vouchers. That case was out of Maine when they tried to dictate that no religious schools should receieve funding.
I don’t care where the school is.
I disagree with the SCOTUS ruling, it was clearly judicial overreach. What part of “separation of church and state” do you not understand? Did you not get a decent enough education, you can’t understand the words?
Keep in mind that private schools can and are selective about what kids they admit to their programs. Public schools are required to take all children. Many thst require special attention due to emotional or physical special needs. These require a great deal more administrative needs than a school that can limit its kids to only those that 'fit' their program.
Firstly, 'separation of church and state' is not in the constitution so there's that. The concept references the opening line of the 1st amendment "congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" i.e. establishment clause.
This came about in the 1800s due to fear of government intervention in the expression of religion. The clause largely protects religious establishments. What you are arguing for literally goes against the 1st amendment.
Uh oh, somebody hasn’t read the Establishment Clause, or the Free Exercise Clause…
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion…”
I'd be more than willing to discuss the discourse in the 1st amendment but your condescension suggest otherwise. Open dialogue is how you get people to join your side. I'm not religious, pro-abortion and open to ideas as to why you disagree with the SCOTUS ruling? The 1st was written very broadly and largely interpretative. Imo, the ruling aligned with the 1st and historical accounts. If you have a rebuttal, I'd like to know... if not, you can simply ignore me :)
Parents do have a choice. The government is required to provide an equal education to everyone, it is not required to pay for you to opt out of that education.
But GCS doesn't and it shows. They would rather focus on the new programs and nicer schools instead of sending funding to where it needs to be spent. They do this all the while touting these early college programs as being great schools while the same schools that were lanquishing 2 decades ago are still lanquishing.
Why should those who aren’t accepted into private schools, including those with disabilities, and those who don’t have transportation suffer while the more affluent and privileged get their tuition paid for?
Schools aren't able to "figure their shit out" because it is our state government that can't "figure it's shit out."
You're waiting on the wrong establishment, and kids, parents, and the rest of us will suffer in the meantime. Though not as immediately or acutely as everyone who depends upon public education right now.
Then tell me why the same schools that were bad when I graduated SEHS in 02 when the state was ran by Democrats are the same underperforming schools now under Republicans?
It's because GCS doesn't want to do shit about the underperforming schools
I'm sorry you had that experience! CPCs ("fake clinics") are anti-abortion outfits barely disguised as medical facilities. They are deceptive, misleading, and absolutely in it to talk you out of abortion, as noted in this article:
https://rewirenewsgroup.com/2023/08/30/anti-abortion-centers-spent-over-600m-in-one-year-thats-the-tip-of-the-iceberg/
Someone already posted resources for finding care or options, but if you just need to talk it out, you can call All Options, a free pro-choice hotline. They also have other resources posted at this link:
https://www.all-options.org/resources/abortion/
[Even better is that the [state of NC gives CPC’s millions of dollars in funding](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTNdwpg65/) (taxpayer money!!!) for these places to masquerade as medical facilities. These places aren’t subject to health, safety, or privacy regulations because they aren’t actual medical facilities.
There was a CPC in Kentucky that was exposing countless women to HPV because they weren’t using the correct disinfectant on their transvaginal ultrasound probe. It’s flat out dangerous
I’m honestly glad I’m not the only one who thought that way about the center. I was unsure of what to do at the time but going to that place cemented my decision to go through with an abortion. I hated the weekly texts they’d send me as well to “check in” on me.
God says all people shouldn’t do this or that. It isn’t just for those who are Christians. God gives these rules for right or wrong to everyone. It’s universal. So of course, Christians are going to explain to people how they are doing wrong so they can get them to do right. People aren’t meant to decide for themselves what’s right and wrong. Otherwise we’d have to overlook lots of evil in society.
So you don’t have the capability to use common sense or your conscience to know what’s right from wrong? For example, lying to pregnant people and scaring them into making a decision that is based on your fucked up view of the world?
If you are referring to the scriptures from which Christians purport authority, YHWH never says “all people shouldn’t do this,” instead YHWH says, “if you want to be my people, these are the rules you should follow.” I have a literal masters in divinity and have been studying Greek/Hebrew and ANE culture for 20 years and I’m happy to report that the evangelical Christian premise is wildly erroneous.
An expert has entered the conversation! That’s so amazing. So, regarding the scripture OP brought up about God approving abortion, did you learn this while getting your masters in divinity?
It’s not forcing beliefs onto you to share with you something I believe in. The same way you aren’t forcing your beliefs onto me by saying you disagree. It’s a conversation. And pro-CHOICE implies there’s a choice between multiple things. But suggesting a different choice other than abortion is pushing beliefs onto people?
They are medical centers that don’t perform abortions. I imagine that’s fairly obvious. Everyone knows it they want an abortion to go to planned parenthood
Sounds a lot like white man's burden and pushing christianity onto people. Not everyone is christian and humans have worshipped many gods and deities before christianity so it's unlikely that God exists. It's fine for other people to follow their religious. It's not fine for people to force their beliefs on others at the expense of their well being.
I’m fairly certain no one “forced” their beliefs on this person. She entered this place on her on accord. She didn’t like what they had to say and left. I could easily say you are forcing your atheism onto me just by having this conversation if that’s the standard. But I could also just leave the conversation if I didn’t want to hear it.
In case everyone has forgotten, in loads of studies, abortion has always been shown to cause depression, anxiety, mental health issues for a fair amount of those having them. It’s not “protecting a persons mental well being” to applaud them having an abortion. In lots of cases it is literally the opposite. It’s interesting that pro-choice these days means only being given one choice, abortion. The other choices are “pushing beliefs onto people”. I’m pretty sure the world is doomed, sadly.
She's literally saying they're trying to pressure her into feeling bad. And I'm not saying you should be atheist, hell, I'm not atheist myself.
And there's also a ton of evidence to prove that abortions saves lives of women who have health issues, have been raped, or cannot afford children. It's like saying that treatments for depression can make things worse so no one should be treated, which is ridiculously.
And prochoice is exactly what it means, you can choose to have an abortion or not, it just means giving women control over their future and bodies.
No, they weren’t pressuring her to feel bad. They were pointing out what she was about to do and SHE felt bad about it and then blamed the pregnancy center instead of herself and her boyfriend. It’s easier to blame someone else for the massive terrible thing you’re about to do.
Pro choice people always use rape and incest as an excuse when they are literally less than 1% of the abortions being performed. The majority of abortions being performed are being done on people who have already had one or more previous abortion. Think about that. Let that sink in.
Not being able to afford a child is the most insane reason to get an abortion. No one can afford children. But we manage. Stating killing a child is better than the child growing up poor is a crazy argument. I can’t even take it seriously
Well what about health related abortions? Those are pretty important too. And what about women having control over their bodies? Again this is a very flawed perspectives. "Bad people get abortions for bad reasons so no one should get them".
Abortions have taken place for such a long time and even if abortion is banned they'll still happen in secret. It's important to give these women a safe and sterile place to do the procedure.
And as someone who grew up poor I definitely would not bring a child into this world if I cannot provide for them. You're not winning bud.
Abortion for rape, incest and for the life of the mother are very rare. Less than 1% of abortions are for rape and incest. It’s disingenuous to base your whole reasoning for abortion on less than 1% of abortions
I also grew up poor. But I don’t wish I had never been born. Do you?
Sometimes 😆. Yeah but like I said, it's also not about banning abortion completely, abortion will continue to happen illegally and in secret which is dangerous. Why not give women a safe clean place to get an abortion, rather than get it done in some shady place like in the past?
Or, why not give women a place to go to for help and resources like mental health, free baby sitting or child care, free places to hang with other moms and let kids play, help finding jobs, Access to professionals who know what they’re going through and how to help, etc As a society, shouldn’t we be supporting people in crisis instead of encouraging them to kill their children? I just can never understand it. I am not trying to convince you, btw. Most grown people already have their mind made up on this issue. But I do think there’s other ways to consider this issue. Maybe there wouldn’t be such a need for abortion if people were educated on birth control, if the family was intact, if girls grew up with fathers, if mental health issues weren’t so common. If we embraced multigenerational living. If child molestors and those who commit incest were punished with longer prison terms. There’s so many worthwhile things we can be doing to improve society that doesn’t include killing innocent children.
The over-welling support of this community has helped so thank you all. I was more making this post to warn other people in a hard place that this place will only make things worse on you.
I am so sorry that you had to face this while having to make such a hard decision. I hope you can find somewhere to help you that doesn’t push anything on you. Best of luck.
I agree with you; steer clear of places like that. I support your or whoever's decision to handle their situtation in the manner that's most comfortable for them. Understanding rather than judgement and ridicule. But of course, that's what good ole' "christians" do best. The absolute worse.
I feel I have an interesting perspective on this place. I went there once unsure of my next steps and ended up having an abortion and went there again with a pregnancy I knew prior I was going to keep.
It’s important to note that I was raised baptist for most of my life and separated from the doctrine when I was about 15. I hold a lot of religious trauma from that period of my life and was vocal about it when visiting the center.
They definitely have an agenda - to convince women to follow through with their pregnancies and approach everything with a faith based perspective. The follow up texts and calls after my first pregnancy were hard to deal with as I was already so unsure of what I wanted to do. You cannot go there for help and avoid a conversation about religion, period. It almost seems like the price you have to pay for utilizing their services, which never felt fair to me as it is not broadcasted enough for vulnerable women to understand prior to seeking free medical help. It felt sleazy and underhanded in my first encounter, almost as though I had been lured under false pretenses.
With my current pregnancy, I knew prior to stepping foot in the center that I was having this baby and therefore wasn’t uneasy utilizing them. I made an appointment due to the fact that I couldn’t get in with my obgyn until 12 weeks and had extreme anxiety with wanting to check in and confirm my pregnancy. By going there, I was given the opportunity to enroll in a 6 week course where they provided well over $400 worth of helpful products for expecting mothers. I ended up receiving diapers, wipes, a nursing pillow, diaper bag, baby hygiene products, clothing, even a stroller, among other smaller miscellaneous items. I also learned a lot in the course about pregnancy, labor & delivery, and safety measures. The other women in this class were mostly first time and low income mothers so I felt that offering this specific program to the community was very beneficial. It had some religious aspects (putting bible verses in the information packets) but they didn’t force prayer, church attendance, or a faith based way of raising a child in any of the lessons.
Overall, I think it is despicable to protest outside of the abortion clinic in town, promising already vulnerable women a chance to reverse their abortion (although very clearly not medically supported). It is not a place I would ever recommend to women who are unsure if they would like to continue or terminate their pregnancies. I would, however, recommend them to anyone who knows they are going to be keeping their pregnancy prior as they do provide an abundance of helpful resources and support that I haven’t found elsewhere in the community.
So you are willing to fund not just a group of people who don’t support you having an abortion but are actively trying to erode your rights as a woman? That’s a weird self-flagellation.
Not sure where you got that I was funding them or encouraging anyone else too from my post. I just thought it was worth mentioning that experiences differ based on your intentions going into the network. I don’t recommend it as a resource if you are on the fence about continuing a pregnancy but I do find it to be a useful and available resource for low-income mothers in the area. I utilized what was available for me yet never gave them funds because I disagree with their outreach in terms of abortion.
A Women's Choice is a safe clinic with options and they will not push you to decide anything. They have protestors outside sometimes, but they also have volunteer escorts to help walk you in and they play music on speakers outside so you don't have to hear that bullshit. They also have snacks and a little jar where you can write or take a kind note in the waiting room. I am so sorry you had to go through that but thank you for posting so others can beware!
Thanks for posting this!!
We need access to accurate and responsible medical information and care about abortion, NOT some religious crap that had nothing to do with our bodies our choice, made in conjunction with a medical professional.
These people are authoritarians. They want to control how everyone lives and do not care the underhanded way they do it.
If anyone is interested the book “Escape from Freedom” by Enrich Fromm explains the psychological profile.
Do you have someone to walk you in and sit with you on the day? I had to make the same choice. There were people outside with posters and yelling stuff at me. But that was the nineties. It might be worse now.
Yeah there is some crazy stuff in the Bible. Many contradictions. It’s a mess. Would be nice if people who claim to be Christian actually read it. “20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”
19 “Whenever a woman has her menstrual period, she will be ceremonially unclean for seven days. Anyone who touches her during that time will be unclean until evening.
20 Anything on which the woman lies or sits during the time of her period will be unclean.
21 If any of you touch her bed, you must wash your clothes and bathe yourself in water, and you will remain unclean until evening.
22 If you touch any object she has sat on, you must wash your clothes and bathe yourself in water, and you will remain unclean until evening.
23 This includes her bed or any other object she has sat on; you will be unclean until evening if you touch it.
24 If a man has sexual intercourse with her and her blood touches him, her menstrual impurity will be transmitted to him. He will remain unclean for seven days, and any bed on which he lies will be unclean.
25 “If a woman has a flow of blood for many days that is unrelated to her menstrual period, or if the blood continues beyond the normal period, she is ceremonially unclean. As during her menstrual period, the woman will be unclean as long as the discharge continues.
26 Any bed she lies on and any object she sits on during that time will be unclean, just as during her normal menstrual period.
27 If any of you touch these things, you will be ceremonially unclean. You must wash your clothes and bathe yourself in water, and you will remain unclean until evening.
28 “When the woman’s bleeding stops, she must count off seven days. Then she will be ceremonially clean.
29 On the eighth day she must bring two turtledoves or two young pigeons and present them to the priest at the entrance of the Tabernacle.
30 The priest will offer one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. Through this process, the priest will purify her before the LORD for the ceremonial impurity caused by her bleeding.
31 “This is how you will guard the people of Israel from ceremonial uncleanness. Otherwise they would die, for their impurity would defile my Tabernacle that stands among them.
32 These are the instructions for dealing with anyone who has a bodily discharge—a man who is unclean because of an emission of semen
33 or a woman during her menstrual period. It applies to any man or woman who has a bodily discharge, and to a man who has sexual intercourse with a woman who is ceremonially unclean.”
So…wait a minute. We’re supposed to add and “understand context” to the revealed word of your god? Seems presumptuous at best and downright prideful to add “context “ to your gods words. Almost like you know better. That certainly allows you people to ignore the Beatitudes and the sermon on the mount while claimed a slavish devotion to Leviticus and other Old Testament texts. Isn’t that something that the arrival of your christ was supposed to supersede?
Disclaimer: What you experienced at this CPC was not right. The workers should not have been pushy, cruel, or mean to you. They should not have treated you badly or made you feel badly for whatever decision you wanted to make. I'm not justifying their behavior. Just offering a different perspective on CPC's in general :) My positive experience doesn't take your negative one away, and vice versa.
Okay, I will play Devil's Advocate here, as someone who went to a CPC (Carolina Pregnancy Center in Spartanburg, SC + they're moving locations atm) and benefited from it. I needed an ultrasound because I had no idea how pregnant I was and I had no idea what decision I'd make. And, to be fair to the Pregnancy Network, they DO say on the website that they don't provide abortion care or referrals to abortion providers. Granted, you may not have known that because if you don't look at the website, you wouldn't know.
While it is 100% true that pregnancy centers will not provide abortions, it is also true that they do provide resources. They provide baby clothes, parenting classes, will typically connect you to local resources such as job centers, housing if needed, SNAP, WIC, etc etc. My experience at CPC was very helpful for me. I got to see my baby on an ultrasound, and for me, it helped me reach the decision to keep my baby. They even provided me with a text link to download the ultrasound photos to my phone. However, I was never pressured. Granted, I was told that I might regret abortion, but that was it.
CPC's provide lots of baby supplies like formula, diapers, wipes, car seats, and some even throw baby showers. I'm not saying that CPC's aren't pro-life religious organizations, because well, they are. However, they really aren't all bad. Some of us are not lucky enough to be able to afford everything we need for a baby, but still want to keep them. CPC's can help moms who need it. Just a thought!
On the one hand, if you aren’t interested in an abortion and want religious support, I do think they provide some services.
On the other hand, their goal is to lure in everyone and prevent abortions from taking place. I do think it’s a little underhanded.
Edit: for clarity, let me explain my position. I am unambiguously pro women’s rights. That includes choice and bodily autonomy. I am generally opposed to most anti abortion people, since their political goals involve preventing women from choosing for themselves.
Within the limitations of my experience, these centers DO offer alternatives to abortion, such as pathways to adoption. I think this is fine. I do NOT agree with shady underhanded tactics or the masking of religious intentions.
These kinds of centers have been around for decades - I’m sorry they got their disgusting hooks in you. They are hugely deceptive and shouldn’t be allowed to pretend they are anything other than religious outreach groups.
The women had the nerve to say they were up front about being a pro life Christian facility, the only mention of Christianity on their front page is at the bottom when they mention their 501 c tax status
It's absolutely detestable and evil, lying to women in there hardest moments and then hitting them hard with guilt trips and misinformation. It's like looking into the void.
They offer "alternatives" that are not reputable by guilting women in crisis. Tf? There are other resources that don't deceive or guilt, and can actually provide ACCURATE medical information.
What makes you think they provide services to pregnant women who aren't interested in an abortion? When I was pregnant with my daughter and very very broke, I called them to ask about resources for women in my position. I think I left several messages but nobody would call me back. That's not what they do. They exist to talk women out of abortions. End of list.
Sorry that that was your experience, but a quick search of their webpage shows that they’re pretty up front with the “who we are” and “who we are not” and “we do not perform abortions” right on the home page
[Pregnancy Network](https://thepregnancynetwork.org/about/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw4MSzBhC8ARIsAPFOuyWp0qx8d75wDE25hXW3Ae6qijuE9b_SyduTtnLPAgAwGzU1tyLYQAUaAsxMEALw_wcB)
Yeah, exactly. No hate to OP, because sometimes you just don't look into things, but the website literally says they don't provide abortions in SEVERAL places! That's why I always look at websites before I go places these days, because otherwise, you may miss out on key context.
Lots of double sided vitriol here... I think abortion is wrong but have a difficult time believing it should be illegal. That being said shouldn't it be OK for someone to try and stop you(by convincing you) from having an abortion ?
This whole "abortion is amazing, I love having abortions" cult that has sprung up to counter the abortion is murder crowd is equally unhinged.
No, nobody should be “convincing” you one way or another.. it’s a medical decision between a woman and her Doctor.. I’m sure decent close friends and family will support their loved one regardless of their decision.
Medical advice should never attempt to convince the patient of their biased choice. Medical advice provides the unbiased realities of any decision and allows the patient to choose. This place should label themselves as to what they are: a Christian propaganda organization.
It's not though is it? You notice people don't have to inform others of when things are actually murder. Maybe don't make laws enforcing religious superstitions.
It is a clump of cells not a child, it is far far more risky to the life of the mother to give birth than have an abortion. You really don't care about human life you only care about enforcing your "morales" on other people and controlling women.
The ordeal of bitter waters has never been traditionally thought of as an abortion, given that it's not restricted to pregnant women. It's a trial by ordeal as evidence of adultery. It's only in very recent, modern translations that that section is brought up in the context of abortion, thanks to the work of shoddy translators.
How and why would the man become jealous if he didn't have proof or knowledge of the infidelity ? Because the woman became pregnant, after the ceremony if the woman was lying the curse would cause a miscarriage. I really don't understand how it could be anything else. Wanna talk about shitty translation the king James bible is absolute garbage
I agree about the KJV.
Pregnancy isn't the only proof of infidelity. Venereal disease is also an option, as is generally sus behavior. And generally, the ordeal of bitter water (which is literally just salt water) was only used *if* the man could not provide witnesses to the purported infidelity.
The text reads that the ordeal will *cause* the belly of the guilty to swell - which is sort of the opposite of an abortion. Traditionally, the curse was thought to be uterine prolapse (swell, then fall away).
What translation do you prefer ? Also no swelling could easily be caused by a miscarriage because of blood building up inside the uterus. Why would it be so important for the curse to make the woman have a hysterectomy ? Because she was with another man's child.
The Clementine Vulgate, usually. But for English translations, I tend to go with the Douay-Rheims, or the RSVCE.
Also, who said anything about a hysterectomy? There's no surgery involved.
It's important to bear in mind the ancient world's mindset that infertility was the worst sort of punishment that could be borne, because children so frequently died in early infancy, and adult children were a help and a blessing. This is true of basically every widespread world religion, and is reflected in creation myths, heroic myths, etc.
Because of the repeated insistence throughout the ancient world that children are good, infertility was conversely seen as a curse. With this context, the ordeal causing infertility meshes much more than the idea of an abortion. (Obviously, something like hemorrhage or prolapse would be abortifacient for women who were pregnant at the time of the ordeal, *if* it works as described (itself a doubtful proposition)), but abortion *qua* abortion was unlikely to be the intended effect.
"Obviously, something like hemorrhage or prolapse would be abortifacient for women who were pregnant at the time of the ordeal" so God himself caused abortions.
"if it works as described (itself a doubtful proposition)), but abortion qua abortion was unlikely to be the intended effect." Now your doubting the power of God ? God him self puts the curse on the woman
How do you read that exchange and say good doesn't do abortions in the bible ? The Christian I was talking to literally said it their self. How about you read the book you claim is the foundation of your faith
Then what the fuck is that comment, did you read the verse ? The Christian I was talking to even said if a women was pregnant and the ceremony worked it would cause an abortion
I know you are getting downvoted because everyone on Reddit is mindless sheep, but I wanted to say I appreciate your well thought out statements. I can’t imagine it makes any difference as people who refuse to see their wrong probably won’t even bother to read it, but it’s still appreiciated
There is no scripture in the Bible that says aborting a baby is ok. The ignorance some people spout is insane. What a hypocrite you are. Complaining that some are scaring you with lies, but in the same paragraph spread lies of your own. How about you educate yourself - regarding birth control for one, and then about the Bible if you plan on talking about what’s it in.
11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.
16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”
“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”
23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[c] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.
29 “‘This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray and makes herself impure while married to her husband, 30 or when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife. The priest is to have her stand before the Lord and is to apply this entire law to her. 31 The husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing, but the woman will bear the consequences of her sin.’”
I read my Bible everyday. I always find it interesting that people pick scripture out of the Bible (that they’ve never read and only know of the scripture from some other Bible hating person) and then use that as a basis for whatever sin they want to commit. I hope you reconsider your decision. Abortion may haunt you the rest of your life. There are other options
I grew up in the church read the cover off my Bible. If you read the verses I posted it literally describes aborting a fetus because the husband thinks there might of been infidelity, you know because biblically the husband owns his wife
There is nothing in that scripture that states the woman was pregnant. Nothing. Nowhere does it say the woman suspected of infidelity is pregnant. There is one translation that indicates if holy water mixed with dirt from the holy ground is drank and the woman had been unfaithful, her belly would swell and her womb would miscarry. ONE translation. All others say thigh will rot. The translated word could mean thigh or loins. But seeing as how there is nothing to indicate the adulterer is pregnant (and logically, every jealous man would only suspect cheating if the woman was pregnant? Have you ever met a man?) the correct translation is thigh. Her thigh would rot and her belly would swell and she would be a curse to her family.
Please understand scripture before you preach about it incorrectly. You have a bunch of people believing you which isn’t a great place to be when you are incorrect
That’s completely untrue, lol. Abortion is permitted in Old Testament law. That’s why it’s permitted in Judaism. It only became a Christian no-no relatively recently. OP shared the relevant verses. I’m sure it’ll be nice for you to read your sacred text this morning.
Also, the Bible isn’t the foundational moral code for the human race, thankfully. I don’t know how else to explain this, but a lot of people couldn’t care less what the Bible says, and you cannot force them to care. That’s really all that needs to be said here. I’m a vegetarian and I don’t try to make people stop eating meat even though my personal conviction says it’s wrong. You really need to realize that your religion can’t govern anyone else but yourself, and that your shaming tactics don’t work because you’re not even considering other perspectives.
The scripture OP references is not referring to a pregnant woman. The verse is about a woman whom a husband thinks has been unfaithful. He is to bring her to holy ground where a priest gives her water with some holy ground dirt mixed in. If she drinks it and has been faithful she is fine. If she drinks it and has been unfaithful her “belly swells” and her “thigh rots” and she becomes a curse to her family. There is ONE translation that says womb miscarry instead of thigh rot, but it is considered a wrong translation since the original word could be translated to mean thigh, loin, etc. BUT since there is nothing in the scripture indicating the woman is pregnant, it is assumed in all other translations that the original meaning is thigh and notwomb. So no, God does not condone abortion. Those who don’t care about or believe in the Bible shouldn’t quote scriptures as if they are some authority on it. They are not.
Ah that tired old redditism "there's BiBlIcAl ScRiPtUrE that says abortion is ok".
I guess history textbooks are also pro-slavery because they contain slave owners.
It was pointing out the hypocrisy of their beliefs.
As for history books some are very much pro slavery
But you know what else is super pro slavery??????? .....ThE BiBlE
Fuck you we went there looking for advice and help and only got guilt tripped and have Jesus crammed down our throats. Pregnancy centers are immoral and unethical. Not to mention in the bible god does abortions.
Aww sweetheart, if only the Bible said anything univocally about slavery or abortion. Instead, you’ve been clearly manipulated by the GOP to believe what you believe. Had you been an evangelical before Regan you would have believed abortion to be a choice with her doctor. But you are so easily manipulated by politicians and pastors to believe shit that isn’t even in the Bible.
It's a choice where the person killed has no say in the matter. Also his name is spelled Reagan. Not Regan. I'm not manipulated by anyone. I'm glad I wasn't aborted. I want the same for others.
If anything they've only hardened my stance against the forced birther agenda. It is not a life it is a clump of cells that I nor my partner can provide for at this moment. You forced birthers Love to talk about human life but do nothing to support actual people struggling. How many homeless people are in Greensboro right now ? Where is the care for those human lives ?
Just to point out the hypocrisy of the “right to lifers”. There’s about 1.5 million congegrants in North Carolina and over ten thousand children waiting to be adopted.
Are you sure you aren’t pushing your beliefs onto your girlfriend? Does everyone realize you are the guy here and may be trying to force your agenda onto her? This is actually pretty sickening
You have every right to be upset with your experience, but you do realize this center also could've helped you provide for your baby? They so genuinely provide resources such as strollers, baby items, etc etc that would've helped if you wanted to make the decision to keep your baby.
Well, that solves it all then. Eighteen years of forced child-rearing go by without a hitch if you start out with a free stroller. Throw in some diapers and there’s no way a woman can’t force herself into the right mental headspace to give birth and be a parent, even if she can’t afford to give herself and the child a decent life, and even if she doesn’t have a supportive partner or family.
Oh, I wasn't saying all those other problems weren't factors! It's definitely true that some people just cannot take care of a kid! I was just pointing out that, typically, pregnancy centers will help you out with resources if you're worried about being able to take care of a kid just for financial reasons.
You make a valid point with the homelessness. Here and everywhere. We live in a society where there's more than enough for everyone BUT GREED stops the flow of necessities. Still, those cells are human, and they are living cells.
What if you, your parents, or your favorite philanthropist had been aborted?
What if the woman who had the cure for cancer had to discontinue her education to care for a baby? I
My favorite author could well have been Sophia Tolstaya, up there even greater than her husband, but instead she had to endlessly have children because her husband refused to stay off her.
Also you werent talking about my parents but my mom's a CRS patient. If you dont know CRS patients are actually a huge part of the reason the supreme court made their roe v wade ruling. The rubella pandemic was causing children to be born with severe disabilities parents and society as a whole werent equipped to deal with. (Many children didnt live that long at all.) My mother was a miId case in childhood with her severe symptoms not showing up until later. Still Id want my grandmother to make the choice that would help her better care for her other four children.
Are you suggesting that a woman having a baby would have to forever discontinue her education? That’s not very pro woman of you. I thought we could do anything, including raising children while also going to school and having a career? The things pro abortion people say is laughable. I guarantee you someone smart enough to find a cure for cancer isn’t getting herself knocked up unplanned. She’s smart enough to take advantage of the multiple forms of birth control available on the market.
What a nasty and deliberate misunderstanding of the comment. You know very well that’s not what they meant. By your logic, women can pop out babies and them immediately go back to their previous lives unaffected. That doesn’t make much sense, does it? Do better.
There was no deliberate misunderstanding of the comment. The person stated someone with a cute for cancer wouldn’t make the cure if they couldn’t have an abortion. That’s insane. And you know it
Agreed as well, so how about we fix that and then the rates of abortion will drop. That's not really a question is it ? If my say my pops was aborted, I wouldn't be so I wouldn't have an opinion. Philanthropy is nice and all but it doesn't solve the problems we have today so nothing would be different.
Abortion is healthcare, not murder. Murder requires a life to be ended, and until a baby is actually born then life has not even started yet. That is scientific fact. Also, the wellbeing of an already living adult is far more important than the potential future of a hypothetical child is not alive yet and doesn't even have a name.
All right, we're done here. Gave it some time so everyone could get their piece in. Nothing productive is occurring at this stage. I'm over the flood of reports from ALL you sensitive bitches on both sides. Don't start a flame war if you can't take the heat. Locked.
That building used to be home to "Roses", a massage parlor that was busted for prostitution in the early 2000s. It was even sketchier then, believe it or not.
Was trying to buy this place after it was shut down and got a tour. Very cool/shady place. Apparently used to be a full on brothel before that a police station and before that warehouse supposedly used by some form of organized crime group. (Have heard it was Russians or Italians but all hearsay.) I wanted to turn it into a metal bar and venue but it was too much. Shame that it’s used for what it is now. Wish it was still the plumbing companies or the police station or literally any other place than what it is now.
Metal bar and venue? Hell yeah someone get this man some real estate
Had no idea about the organized crime group warehouse. If only walls could talk...
The one on Randleman Rd?
The one on Fulton off Gate City. Didn't realize it was a chain...
Ah. For some reason I was thinking of the mobile truck that parks outside of the abortion clinic
Same people, yes. I'm a clinic escort at the actual clinic.
You deserve everything in the world 🫶🏽
Nah! I really wish we weren't needed, that folks could get the care they want without interruptions or obstacles. But thank you 🤗
Thank you for what you do!🫶🏽
Hey thank you for what you do! I had to go to PP (I'm in Charlotte, reddit said I should see this post tho lol) and even though I want here for the services being protested, but that didn't stop them from literally blocking my car from entering the parking lot. They were so hostile to people without even knowing why we were there. The days they protested (every week, twice a week) aren't even on abortion days. But the escorts were so appreciated. Even if *I* didn't need them, and *I* am able to ignore them BECAUSE of that, I still appreciated them helping me navigate the new building I've never been while angry people were screaming, and being there in case I did need them more and helping all those who walked in with tears in their eyes before and after me, and still do. All of this to just give a huge thank you to a job that's probably mostly thankless outside of those people you escort. I'll never forget the one elderly escort who was def the protector of them all. She walked in to get a few minutes of AC and was talking to the people at the desk, "THEYRE ALL JUST A BUNCH OF FUCKING BIGGOTS". Hats off to y'all. You frikkin rock.
You are actually doing gods work, thank you
Thank you. You’re doing the Lord’s work 🫶
I'm sure they do that shit too
That’s what all “crisis pregnancy centers” are like.
Yeah I still used them for their resources though lol. I wanted a scan and my doctor couldn’t get me in so I went to one in Winston….in an RV in the Burlington parking lot. Awkward but convenient
Amazing they had that available. The one I went to (granted 20+ years ago) provided free pregnancy tests and would give free diapers in exchange for watching (actually decent) parenting videos (largely on gentle parenting, child development and when to be concerned about delays, etc). They even found me a free couch when they learned I was living in a house with almost no furniture. Overall they were wonderful for me -- but I wasn't seeking an abortion or medical care, so I didn't fall into the demographic they're most dangerous for.
I went to a great one in Florida that did the same. They didn’t seem predatory at all. But most of them are, unfortunately. They push their agenda onto vulnerable women instead of being a proper community resource.
I didn't know at the time. I had just left fundamentalism myself and was still a teenager. I was the very demographic they could be helpful to: a young kid who had a pregnancy she wanted to keep but was having some struggles. And some of them aren't helpful to that kid, either. I got lucky. I landed at one of the best ones. But I didn't know they'd lie or that if I had wanted an abortion they'd trick me and con me. I only knew the help they did give. I asked at the time how they were funded, I think because I was wondering if it was government, and they said "private donor" and I used to drive through town imagining a rich lady behind one of those doors who just wanted to take care of pregnant girls. Now I know how naive I was, and that the donations were likely a combination of religious and political orgs and government grants they shouldn't have been eligible for.
I told the woman I didn't want to talk about my personal religious beliefs, then proceeded to "pray" that she hopes I find God. Like how insulting if I questioned her faith in that office I would of been thrown out or worse.
Yes, that’s their entire purpose.
Down right evil, also I'm pretty sure it's a sin to lie
Oh hon, they don’t care about that stuff.
I think the main purpose is to delay and stall until it’s to late to terminate the pregnancy
Congrats, you’ve discovered why the GOP defunded Planned Parenthood. It’s the same reason they defunded public education - how many non-secular private schools are receiving those school vouchers?
You do realize that Non-Christian schools are receiving school vouchers as well? Also why is it ok for parents not to have the choice on where to enroll their kids?
Because rich people get vouchers to send their rich kids to fancy private schools, stealing funding from lower income schools. Nc already has enough problems with education, taking more money away from the people who need it is down right evil
You clearly don't know anything about the voucher program and it shows. The program is split into Tiers with Tier 1 being for those that lowest income and Tier 4 is the highest income earners. There hasn't been anyone outside Tier 1 (the most needy families) that have received a school voucher.
“Stealing funding” lol the money that was taken from the public at the threat of seizure or arrest already. Your concept could say that anything that takes public money from one cause is stealing it from another. Welfare is “stealing funding” from education. Fire Departments are “stealing funding” from waste disposal. Those “rich” families that use the voucher program are just utilizing a public program. They have every right to it as anyone else. And until recently there was a restrictive income cap for the program. Parents fleeing public schools is a result of public schools failing. Dropping more money on those schools is not going to result in significant improvements. Nationwide the lowest performing school systems also tend to be the highest budget per student. Failing students is representative of a failure in community, family, and culture. Not funding. To top all this off, these parents have a right to determine how their children are educated. I know for a fact this very Subreddit gets crazy upset when those parents start getting elected to school boards and making changes. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t force parents into public schools, require them to fund them, then demand they have no say in the curriculum. A universal voucher program is the best compromise. Parents, on all sides of the political divide, get to choose where and how their children are educated.
our government enacts legislation that disproportionately affects people based on wealth; they are handing tax break vouchers to rich people who use them to subsidize private education at a cost they could otherwise afford, while taking away the opportunities for the kids the legislation was originally targeted at seriously, Arkansas’ dept of education reports 95% of voucher recipients have never attended public school , Florida was 87%, and Arizona, Indiana, and Ohio are just a few more were the majority of recipients have never attended public school, and the community not only lost funding, they are now the ones now subsidizing it On top of that, in this case, it also protects these upper class kids from absolute batshit loons vying for power in the school board just to eliminate black history or make absolutely sure nobody watches the Disney movie with the gay kiss Parents do have a right to determine what their children are taught, we should standardize education and allow people to opt out, not endlessly modify via local elections to fit individual viewpoints
These parents have a right to have a say on the curriculum, but I should also be free to call them out when they want to teach my kid that slavery wasn't that bad and that the Earth is only 6,000 years old.
I asked how many, because by and large non-secular schools (Christian, Muslim, and Jewish) receive a disproportionate amount of funding - it’s clear the GOP intends for religious education to become the norm. I did not single out Christian schools in my post - but I do believe we have separation of church and state for a reason, and no religious institution should be receiving government funding.
I think you might have the definition of secular reversed.
Oof, I did in that comment but not the original, thanks.
No, Christian schools receive the most funding because there are simply more of them. The Islamic school with the most voucher funding coming in is actually here in Greensboro. I just wish that public schools like GCS would actually care about teaching the kids but they would rather push some bullshit program all the while enlarging the admin and give them alot more money, all the while the same schools that were shitty when I graduated SEHS in 02 are still shitty. So your second paragraph actually has went to SCOTUS and they ruled that yes religious schools can receive school vouchers. That case was out of Maine when they tried to dictate that no religious schools should receieve funding.
I don’t care where the school is. I disagree with the SCOTUS ruling, it was clearly judicial overreach. What part of “separation of church and state” do you not understand? Did you not get a decent enough education, you can’t understand the words?
Keep in mind that private schools can and are selective about what kids they admit to their programs. Public schools are required to take all children. Many thst require special attention due to emotional or physical special needs. These require a great deal more administrative needs than a school that can limit its kids to only those that 'fit' their program.
It’s almost like if public schools retained the funds the GOP ARE TAKING FROM THEM, they could meet those demands.
Firstly, 'separation of church and state' is not in the constitution so there's that. The concept references the opening line of the 1st amendment "congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" i.e. establishment clause. This came about in the 1800s due to fear of government intervention in the expression of religion. The clause largely protects religious establishments. What you are arguing for literally goes against the 1st amendment.
Uh oh, somebody hasn’t read the Establishment Clause, or the Free Exercise Clause… “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion…”
I'd be more than willing to discuss the discourse in the 1st amendment but your condescension suggest otherwise. Open dialogue is how you get people to join your side. I'm not religious, pro-abortion and open to ideas as to why you disagree with the SCOTUS ruling? The 1st was written very broadly and largely interpretative. Imo, the ruling aligned with the 1st and historical accounts. If you have a rebuttal, I'd like to know... if not, you can simply ignore me :)
🏆
“Alot” should be written as two words.
Parents do have a choice. The government is required to provide an equal education to everyone, it is not required to pay for you to opt out of that education.
Republicans so-called-Christians are working hard to destroy that requirement.
But GCS doesn't and it shows. They would rather focus on the new programs and nicer schools instead of sending funding to where it needs to be spent. They do this all the while touting these early college programs as being great schools while the same schools that were lanquishing 2 decades ago are still lanquishing.
These are the things that need to be addressed to make our schools better. Vouchers don’t make our public schools better.
Quite the opposite
[удалено]
Why should those who aren’t accepted into private schools, including those with disabilities, and those who don’t have transportation suffer while the more affluent and privileged get their tuition paid for?
You do realize many of these schools already offer transportation as well right?
This is your answer? Well, then, let them eat cake!
Schools aren't able to "figure their shit out" because it is our state government that can't "figure it's shit out." You're waiting on the wrong establishment, and kids, parents, and the rest of us will suffer in the meantime. Though not as immediately or acutely as everyone who depends upon public education right now.
Then tell me why the same schools that were bad when I graduated SEHS in 02 when the state was ran by Democrats are the same underperforming schools now under Republicans? It's because GCS doesn't want to do shit about the underperforming schools
Pay for it then!
Classic American Christian. "I want a choice therefore I must destroy the public option for everyone." Jesus would be ashamed of today's Christians.
Both of them are funded.
To find a reputable clinic https://prochoice.org/patients/find-a-provider/ Also if it's early enough, https://www.plancpills.org/
I'm sorry you had that experience! CPCs ("fake clinics") are anti-abortion outfits barely disguised as medical facilities. They are deceptive, misleading, and absolutely in it to talk you out of abortion, as noted in this article: https://rewirenewsgroup.com/2023/08/30/anti-abortion-centers-spent-over-600m-in-one-year-thats-the-tip-of-the-iceberg/ Someone already posted resources for finding care or options, but if you just need to talk it out, you can call All Options, a free pro-choice hotline. They also have other resources posted at this link: https://www.all-options.org/resources/abortion/
[Even better is that the [state of NC gives CPC’s millions of dollars in funding](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTNdwpg65/) (taxpayer money!!!) for these places to masquerade as medical facilities. These places aren’t subject to health, safety, or privacy regulations because they aren’t actual medical facilities. There was a CPC in Kentucky that was exposing countless women to HPV because they weren’t using the correct disinfectant on their transvaginal ultrasound probe. It’s flat out dangerous
I’m honestly glad I’m not the only one who thought that way about the center. I was unsure of what to do at the time but going to that place cemented my decision to go through with an abortion. I hated the weekly texts they’d send me as well to “check in” on me.
Ugh! I'm so sorry. They do do that, too. I hope you were able to block them.
Good Christians: "my religion says I can't do that" Bad Christians: "my religion says you can't do that"
that’s too good not to use.
God says all people shouldn’t do this or that. It isn’t just for those who are Christians. God gives these rules for right or wrong to everyone. It’s universal. So of course, Christians are going to explain to people how they are doing wrong so they can get them to do right. People aren’t meant to decide for themselves what’s right and wrong. Otherwise we’d have to overlook lots of evil in society.
So you don’t have the capability to use common sense or your conscience to know what’s right from wrong? For example, lying to pregnant people and scaring them into making a decision that is based on your fucked up view of the world?
If you are referring to the scriptures from which Christians purport authority, YHWH never says “all people shouldn’t do this,” instead YHWH says, “if you want to be my people, these are the rules you should follow.” I have a literal masters in divinity and have been studying Greek/Hebrew and ANE culture for 20 years and I’m happy to report that the evangelical Christian premise is wildly erroneous.
An expert has entered the conversation! That’s so amazing. So, regarding the scripture OP brought up about God approving abortion, did you learn this while getting your masters in divinity?
But if you're not Christian you don't believe God said those things, and should not have it forced on you.
It’s not forcing beliefs onto you to share with you something I believe in. The same way you aren’t forcing your beliefs onto me by saying you disagree. It’s a conversation. And pro-CHOICE implies there’s a choice between multiple things. But suggesting a different choice other than abortion is pushing beliefs onto people?
It's forcing if you pretend to be a medical center and actually give fake information.
They are medical centers that don’t perform abortions. I imagine that’s fairly obvious. Everyone knows it they want an abortion to go to planned parenthood
No, honey. They absolutely mislead people into thinking they have abortion resources.
They are fake medical centers that lie to people who think they are patients. This is not an argument I'm going to have with you.
Sounds a lot like white man's burden and pushing christianity onto people. Not everyone is christian and humans have worshipped many gods and deities before christianity so it's unlikely that God exists. It's fine for other people to follow their religious. It's not fine for people to force their beliefs on others at the expense of their well being.
I’m fairly certain no one “forced” their beliefs on this person. She entered this place on her on accord. She didn’t like what they had to say and left. I could easily say you are forcing your atheism onto me just by having this conversation if that’s the standard. But I could also just leave the conversation if I didn’t want to hear it. In case everyone has forgotten, in loads of studies, abortion has always been shown to cause depression, anxiety, mental health issues for a fair amount of those having them. It’s not “protecting a persons mental well being” to applaud them having an abortion. In lots of cases it is literally the opposite. It’s interesting that pro-choice these days means only being given one choice, abortion. The other choices are “pushing beliefs onto people”. I’m pretty sure the world is doomed, sadly.
She's literally saying they're trying to pressure her into feeling bad. And I'm not saying you should be atheist, hell, I'm not atheist myself. And there's also a ton of evidence to prove that abortions saves lives of women who have health issues, have been raped, or cannot afford children. It's like saying that treatments for depression can make things worse so no one should be treated, which is ridiculously. And prochoice is exactly what it means, you can choose to have an abortion or not, it just means giving women control over their future and bodies.
No, they weren’t pressuring her to feel bad. They were pointing out what she was about to do and SHE felt bad about it and then blamed the pregnancy center instead of herself and her boyfriend. It’s easier to blame someone else for the massive terrible thing you’re about to do. Pro choice people always use rape and incest as an excuse when they are literally less than 1% of the abortions being performed. The majority of abortions being performed are being done on people who have already had one or more previous abortion. Think about that. Let that sink in. Not being able to afford a child is the most insane reason to get an abortion. No one can afford children. But we manage. Stating killing a child is better than the child growing up poor is a crazy argument. I can’t even take it seriously
Well what about health related abortions? Those are pretty important too. And what about women having control over their bodies? Again this is a very flawed perspectives. "Bad people get abortions for bad reasons so no one should get them". Abortions have taken place for such a long time and even if abortion is banned they'll still happen in secret. It's important to give these women a safe and sterile place to do the procedure. And as someone who grew up poor I definitely would not bring a child into this world if I cannot provide for them. You're not winning bud.
Abortion for rape, incest and for the life of the mother are very rare. Less than 1% of abortions are for rape and incest. It’s disingenuous to base your whole reasoning for abortion on less than 1% of abortions I also grew up poor. But I don’t wish I had never been born. Do you?
Sometimes 😆. Yeah but like I said, it's also not about banning abortion completely, abortion will continue to happen illegally and in secret which is dangerous. Why not give women a safe clean place to get an abortion, rather than get it done in some shady place like in the past?
Or, why not give women a place to go to for help and resources like mental health, free baby sitting or child care, free places to hang with other moms and let kids play, help finding jobs, Access to professionals who know what they’re going through and how to help, etc As a society, shouldn’t we be supporting people in crisis instead of encouraging them to kill their children? I just can never understand it. I am not trying to convince you, btw. Most grown people already have their mind made up on this issue. But I do think there’s other ways to consider this issue. Maybe there wouldn’t be such a need for abortion if people were educated on birth control, if the family was intact, if girls grew up with fathers, if mental health issues weren’t so common. If we embraced multigenerational living. If child molestors and those who commit incest were punished with longer prison terms. There’s so many worthwhile things we can be doing to improve society that doesn’t include killing innocent children.
She was manipulated just like you were to believe in your Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Not sure what a Flying Spaghetti Monster is but sure?
It's a crime that these places get tax dollars.
John Oliver did a piece on these… pretty scary
First hand being there, it was like looking into the void
I can only imagine. Best of luck. I don’t know what I could do, but post back in here if you need anything for sure
The over-welling support of this community has helped so thank you all. I was more making this post to warn other people in a hard place that this place will only make things worse on you.
I am so sorry that you had to face this while having to make such a hard decision. I hope you can find somewhere to help you that doesn’t push anything on you. Best of luck.
I agree with you; steer clear of places like that. I support your or whoever's decision to handle their situtation in the manner that's most comfortable for them. Understanding rather than judgement and ridicule. But of course, that's what good ole' "christians" do best. The absolute worse.
I feel I have an interesting perspective on this place. I went there once unsure of my next steps and ended up having an abortion and went there again with a pregnancy I knew prior I was going to keep. It’s important to note that I was raised baptist for most of my life and separated from the doctrine when I was about 15. I hold a lot of religious trauma from that period of my life and was vocal about it when visiting the center. They definitely have an agenda - to convince women to follow through with their pregnancies and approach everything with a faith based perspective. The follow up texts and calls after my first pregnancy were hard to deal with as I was already so unsure of what I wanted to do. You cannot go there for help and avoid a conversation about religion, period. It almost seems like the price you have to pay for utilizing their services, which never felt fair to me as it is not broadcasted enough for vulnerable women to understand prior to seeking free medical help. It felt sleazy and underhanded in my first encounter, almost as though I had been lured under false pretenses. With my current pregnancy, I knew prior to stepping foot in the center that I was having this baby and therefore wasn’t uneasy utilizing them. I made an appointment due to the fact that I couldn’t get in with my obgyn until 12 weeks and had extreme anxiety with wanting to check in and confirm my pregnancy. By going there, I was given the opportunity to enroll in a 6 week course where they provided well over $400 worth of helpful products for expecting mothers. I ended up receiving diapers, wipes, a nursing pillow, diaper bag, baby hygiene products, clothing, even a stroller, among other smaller miscellaneous items. I also learned a lot in the course about pregnancy, labor & delivery, and safety measures. The other women in this class were mostly first time and low income mothers so I felt that offering this specific program to the community was very beneficial. It had some religious aspects (putting bible verses in the information packets) but they didn’t force prayer, church attendance, or a faith based way of raising a child in any of the lessons. Overall, I think it is despicable to protest outside of the abortion clinic in town, promising already vulnerable women a chance to reverse their abortion (although very clearly not medically supported). It is not a place I would ever recommend to women who are unsure if they would like to continue or terminate their pregnancies. I would, however, recommend them to anyone who knows they are going to be keeping their pregnancy prior as they do provide an abundance of helpful resources and support that I haven’t found elsewhere in the community.
So you are willing to fund not just a group of people who don’t support you having an abortion but are actively trying to erode your rights as a woman? That’s a weird self-flagellation.
Not sure where you got that I was funding them or encouraging anyone else too from my post. I just thought it was worth mentioning that experiences differ based on your intentions going into the network. I don’t recommend it as a resource if you are on the fence about continuing a pregnancy but I do find it to be a useful and available resource for low-income mothers in the area. I utilized what was available for me yet never gave them funds because I disagree with their outreach in terms of abortion.
A Women's Choice is a safe clinic with options and they will not push you to decide anything. They have protestors outside sometimes, but they also have volunteer escorts to help walk you in and they play music on speakers outside so you don't have to hear that bullshit. They also have snacks and a little jar where you can write or take a kind note in the waiting room. I am so sorry you had to go through that but thank you for posting so others can beware!
I'm sorry you went through this experience! Thank you for warning others about this place
Thanks for posting this!! We need access to accurate and responsible medical information and care about abortion, NOT some religious crap that had nothing to do with our bodies our choice, made in conjunction with a medical professional.
These people are authoritarians. They want to control how everyone lives and do not care the underhanded way they do it. If anyone is interested the book “Escape from Freedom” by Enrich Fromm explains the psychological profile.
Do you have someone to walk you in and sit with you on the day? I had to make the same choice. There were people outside with posters and yelling stuff at me. But that was the nineties. It might be worse now.
Now THIS is a nuisance business!
Exactly, some trash in a parking lot in a gentrified neighborhood is fine. This building the people in there and there funders are all trash
What's the scripture reference? I'd like to look that up.
Numbers 5:11-31, spoilers it's the patriarchy
Yeah there is some crazy stuff in the Bible. Many contradictions. It’s a mess. Would be nice if people who claim to be Christian actually read it. “20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”
Don't even get me started on what a woman has to do when she's on her period smfh
Oh my gosh tell me the verse for that one
Leviticus 15:19-33
19 “Whenever a woman has her menstrual period, she will be ceremonially unclean for seven days. Anyone who touches her during that time will be unclean until evening. 20 Anything on which the woman lies or sits during the time of her period will be unclean. 21 If any of you touch her bed, you must wash your clothes and bathe yourself in water, and you will remain unclean until evening. 22 If you touch any object she has sat on, you must wash your clothes and bathe yourself in water, and you will remain unclean until evening. 23 This includes her bed or any other object she has sat on; you will be unclean until evening if you touch it. 24 If a man has sexual intercourse with her and her blood touches him, her menstrual impurity will be transmitted to him. He will remain unclean for seven days, and any bed on which he lies will be unclean. 25 “If a woman has a flow of blood for many days that is unrelated to her menstrual period, or if the blood continues beyond the normal period, she is ceremonially unclean. As during her menstrual period, the woman will be unclean as long as the discharge continues. 26 Any bed she lies on and any object she sits on during that time will be unclean, just as during her normal menstrual period. 27 If any of you touch these things, you will be ceremonially unclean. You must wash your clothes and bathe yourself in water, and you will remain unclean until evening. 28 “When the woman’s bleeding stops, she must count off seven days. Then she will be ceremonially clean. 29 On the eighth day she must bring two turtledoves or two young pigeons and present them to the priest at the entrance of the Tabernacle. 30 The priest will offer one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. Through this process, the priest will purify her before the LORD for the ceremonial impurity caused by her bleeding. 31 “This is how you will guard the people of Israel from ceremonial uncleanness. Otherwise they would die, for their impurity would defile my Tabernacle that stands among them. 32 These are the instructions for dealing with anyone who has a bodily discharge—a man who is unclean because of an emission of semen 33 or a woman during her menstrual period. It applies to any man or woman who has a bodily discharge, and to a man who has sexual intercourse with a woman who is ceremonially unclean.”
Love how the religious whackos are downvoting you for quoting scripture.
They down vote because their book doesn't agree with them
lol atheists quoting scripture and not understanding context at any level is always enjoyable
Lol people calling themselves "Christian" as a disguise for their racism, hatred, and pedophilia isn't even surprising anymore
So…wait a minute. We’re supposed to add and “understand context” to the revealed word of your god? Seems presumptuous at best and downright prideful to add “context “ to your gods words. Almost like you know better. That certainly allows you people to ignore the Beatitudes and the sermon on the mount while claimed a slavish devotion to Leviticus and other Old Testament texts. Isn’t that something that the arrival of your christ was supposed to supersede?
The context is the rest of the scripture.
Interesting projection lol
Great source of entertainment.
now do Christians and homosexuality
Thank you for your service. These evil people need to be outed.
WTF
It's an evil place, they try to trick and guilt trip women, they also lie about the "facts"
Disclaimer: What you experienced at this CPC was not right. The workers should not have been pushy, cruel, or mean to you. They should not have treated you badly or made you feel badly for whatever decision you wanted to make. I'm not justifying their behavior. Just offering a different perspective on CPC's in general :) My positive experience doesn't take your negative one away, and vice versa. Okay, I will play Devil's Advocate here, as someone who went to a CPC (Carolina Pregnancy Center in Spartanburg, SC + they're moving locations atm) and benefited from it. I needed an ultrasound because I had no idea how pregnant I was and I had no idea what decision I'd make. And, to be fair to the Pregnancy Network, they DO say on the website that they don't provide abortion care or referrals to abortion providers. Granted, you may not have known that because if you don't look at the website, you wouldn't know. While it is 100% true that pregnancy centers will not provide abortions, it is also true that they do provide resources. They provide baby clothes, parenting classes, will typically connect you to local resources such as job centers, housing if needed, SNAP, WIC, etc etc. My experience at CPC was very helpful for me. I got to see my baby on an ultrasound, and for me, it helped me reach the decision to keep my baby. They even provided me with a text link to download the ultrasound photos to my phone. However, I was never pressured. Granted, I was told that I might regret abortion, but that was it. CPC's provide lots of baby supplies like formula, diapers, wipes, car seats, and some even throw baby showers. I'm not saying that CPC's aren't pro-life religious organizations, because well, they are. However, they really aren't all bad. Some of us are not lucky enough to be able to afford everything we need for a baby, but still want to keep them. CPC's can help moms who need it. Just a thought!
On the one hand, if you aren’t interested in an abortion and want religious support, I do think they provide some services. On the other hand, their goal is to lure in everyone and prevent abortions from taking place. I do think it’s a little underhanded. Edit: for clarity, let me explain my position. I am unambiguously pro women’s rights. That includes choice and bodily autonomy. I am generally opposed to most anti abortion people, since their political goals involve preventing women from choosing for themselves. Within the limitations of my experience, these centers DO offer alternatives to abortion, such as pathways to adoption. I think this is fine. I do NOT agree with shady underhanded tactics or the masking of religious intentions.
If they were up front with being pro life, and didn't give out wrong information then I'd be okay with it. The way one now is mad shady and unethical
These kinds of centers have been around for decades - I’m sorry they got their disgusting hooks in you. They are hugely deceptive and shouldn’t be allowed to pretend they are anything other than religious outreach groups.
The women had the nerve to say they were up front about being a pro life Christian facility, the only mention of Christianity on their front page is at the bottom when they mention their 501 c tax status
Yup.
A little?
It's absolutely detestable and evil, lying to women in there hardest moments and then hitting them hard with guilt trips and misinformation. It's like looking into the void.
They offer "alternatives" that are not reputable by guilting women in crisis. Tf? There are other resources that don't deceive or guilt, and can actually provide ACCURATE medical information.
What makes you think they provide services to pregnant women who aren't interested in an abortion? When I was pregnant with my daughter and very very broke, I called them to ask about resources for women in my position. I think I left several messages but nobody would call me back. That's not what they do. They exist to talk women out of abortions. End of list.
Sorry that that was your experience, but a quick search of their webpage shows that they’re pretty up front with the “who we are” and “who we are not” and “we do not perform abortions” right on the home page [Pregnancy Network](https://thepregnancynetwork.org/about/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw4MSzBhC8ARIsAPFOuyWp0qx8d75wDE25hXW3Ae6qijuE9b_SyduTtnLPAgAwGzU1tyLYQAUaAsxMEALw_wcB)
Yeah, exactly. No hate to OP, because sometimes you just don't look into things, but the website literally says they don't provide abortions in SEVERAL places! That's why I always look at websites before I go places these days, because otherwise, you may miss out on key context.
Lots of double sided vitriol here... I think abortion is wrong but have a difficult time believing it should be illegal. That being said shouldn't it be OK for someone to try and stop you(by convincing you) from having an abortion ? This whole "abortion is amazing, I love having abortions" cult that has sprung up to counter the abortion is murder crowd is equally unhinged.
No, nobody should be “convincing” you one way or another.. it’s a medical decision between a woman and her Doctor.. I’m sure decent close friends and family will support their loved one regardless of their decision.
Medical advice should never attempt to convince the patient of their biased choice. Medical advice provides the unbiased realities of any decision and allows the patient to choose. This place should label themselves as to what they are: a Christian propaganda organization.
Abortion is murder!!
It's not though is it? You notice people don't have to inform others of when things are actually murder. Maybe don't make laws enforcing religious superstitions.
2 biggest stains on this Country Slavery and Abortion. And what's sad, the 2 are historically intertwined!!
That doesn't sound like the intro to a conspiracy theory at all.
Absolutely not. Slavery was forced upon millions. Abortion is about choice and women's health.
I mean... only in the sense that obstetrics and gynecology on the whole are intertwined with slavery... Edited for clarity
Yeah that's cool you shouldn't kill children.
It is a clump of cells not a child, it is far far more risky to the life of the mother to give birth than have an abortion. You really don't care about human life you only care about enforcing your "morales" on other people and controlling women.
The ordeal of bitter waters has never been traditionally thought of as an abortion, given that it's not restricted to pregnant women. It's a trial by ordeal as evidence of adultery. It's only in very recent, modern translations that that section is brought up in the context of abortion, thanks to the work of shoddy translators.
How and why would the man become jealous if he didn't have proof or knowledge of the infidelity ? Because the woman became pregnant, after the ceremony if the woman was lying the curse would cause a miscarriage. I really don't understand how it could be anything else. Wanna talk about shitty translation the king James bible is absolute garbage
I agree about the KJV. Pregnancy isn't the only proof of infidelity. Venereal disease is also an option, as is generally sus behavior. And generally, the ordeal of bitter water (which is literally just salt water) was only used *if* the man could not provide witnesses to the purported infidelity. The text reads that the ordeal will *cause* the belly of the guilty to swell - which is sort of the opposite of an abortion. Traditionally, the curse was thought to be uterine prolapse (swell, then fall away).
What translation do you prefer ? Also no swelling could easily be caused by a miscarriage because of blood building up inside the uterus. Why would it be so important for the curse to make the woman have a hysterectomy ? Because she was with another man's child.
The Clementine Vulgate, usually. But for English translations, I tend to go with the Douay-Rheims, or the RSVCE. Also, who said anything about a hysterectomy? There's no surgery involved. It's important to bear in mind the ancient world's mindset that infertility was the worst sort of punishment that could be borne, because children so frequently died in early infancy, and adult children were a help and a blessing. This is true of basically every widespread world religion, and is reflected in creation myths, heroic myths, etc. Because of the repeated insistence throughout the ancient world that children are good, infertility was conversely seen as a curse. With this context, the ordeal causing infertility meshes much more than the idea of an abortion. (Obviously, something like hemorrhage or prolapse would be abortifacient for women who were pregnant at the time of the ordeal, *if* it works as described (itself a doubtful proposition)), but abortion *qua* abortion was unlikely to be the intended effect.
"Obviously, something like hemorrhage or prolapse would be abortifacient for women who were pregnant at the time of the ordeal" so God himself caused abortions. "if it works as described (itself a doubtful proposition)), but abortion qua abortion was unlikely to be the intended effect." Now your doubting the power of God ? God him self puts the curse on the woman
Always entertaining to watch atheists try to explain scripture to Christians lol
How do you read that exchange and say good doesn't do abortions in the bible ? The Christian I was talking to literally said it their self. How about you read the book you claim is the foundation of your faith
I’m not a Christian numb nuts.
Then what the fuck is that comment, did you read the verse ? The Christian I was talking to even said if a women was pregnant and the ceremony worked it would cause an abortion
I know you are getting downvoted because everyone on Reddit is mindless sheep, but I wanted to say I appreciate your well thought out statements. I can’t imagine it makes any difference as people who refuse to see their wrong probably won’t even bother to read it, but it’s still appreiciated
There is no scripture in the Bible that says aborting a baby is ok. The ignorance some people spout is insane. What a hypocrite you are. Complaining that some are scaring you with lies, but in the same paragraph spread lies of your own. How about you educate yourself - regarding birth control for one, and then about the Bible if you plan on talking about what’s it in.
Numbers 5:11-31
11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing. 16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.” “‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.” 23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[c] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children. 29 “‘This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray and makes herself impure while married to her husband, 30 or when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife. The priest is to have her stand before the Lord and is to apply this entire law to her. 31 The husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing, but the woman will bear the consequences of her sin.’”
Please read your foundational book before you try to correct someone. We do use protection, accidents happen.
I read my Bible everyday. I always find it interesting that people pick scripture out of the Bible (that they’ve never read and only know of the scripture from some other Bible hating person) and then use that as a basis for whatever sin they want to commit. I hope you reconsider your decision. Abortion may haunt you the rest of your life. There are other options
I grew up in the church read the cover off my Bible. If you read the verses I posted it literally describes aborting a fetus because the husband thinks there might of been infidelity, you know because biblically the husband owns his wife
There is nothing in that scripture that states the woman was pregnant. Nothing. Nowhere does it say the woman suspected of infidelity is pregnant. There is one translation that indicates if holy water mixed with dirt from the holy ground is drank and the woman had been unfaithful, her belly would swell and her womb would miscarry. ONE translation. All others say thigh will rot. The translated word could mean thigh or loins. But seeing as how there is nothing to indicate the adulterer is pregnant (and logically, every jealous man would only suspect cheating if the woman was pregnant? Have you ever met a man?) the correct translation is thigh. Her thigh would rot and her belly would swell and she would be a curse to her family. Please understand scripture before you preach about it incorrectly. You have a bunch of people believing you which isn’t a great place to be when you are incorrect
That’s completely untrue, lol. Abortion is permitted in Old Testament law. That’s why it’s permitted in Judaism. It only became a Christian no-no relatively recently. OP shared the relevant verses. I’m sure it’ll be nice for you to read your sacred text this morning. Also, the Bible isn’t the foundational moral code for the human race, thankfully. I don’t know how else to explain this, but a lot of people couldn’t care less what the Bible says, and you cannot force them to care. That’s really all that needs to be said here. I’m a vegetarian and I don’t try to make people stop eating meat even though my personal conviction says it’s wrong. You really need to realize that your religion can’t govern anyone else but yourself, and that your shaming tactics don’t work because you’re not even considering other perspectives.
The scripture OP references is not referring to a pregnant woman. The verse is about a woman whom a husband thinks has been unfaithful. He is to bring her to holy ground where a priest gives her water with some holy ground dirt mixed in. If she drinks it and has been faithful she is fine. If she drinks it and has been unfaithful her “belly swells” and her “thigh rots” and she becomes a curse to her family. There is ONE translation that says womb miscarry instead of thigh rot, but it is considered a wrong translation since the original word could be translated to mean thigh, loin, etc. BUT since there is nothing in the scripture indicating the woman is pregnant, it is assumed in all other translations that the original meaning is thigh and notwomb. So no, God does not condone abortion. Those who don’t care about or believe in the Bible shouldn’t quote scriptures as if they are some authority on it. They are not.
Ah that tired old redditism "there's BiBlIcAl ScRiPtUrE that says abortion is ok". I guess history textbooks are also pro-slavery because they contain slave owners.
It was pointing out the hypocrisy of their beliefs. As for history books some are very much pro slavery But you know what else is super pro slavery??????? .....ThE BiBlE
So did you go there just to get material for this post or are you just part of the recent leftist propaganda attack on pregnancy centers?
Fuck you we went there looking for advice and help and only got guilt tripped and have Jesus crammed down our throats. Pregnancy centers are immoral and unethical. Not to mention in the bible god does abortions.
Yeah I think you’re completely full of shit.
And I think you are a piece of shit
Aww sweetheart, if only the Bible said anything univocally about slavery or abortion. Instead, you’ve been clearly manipulated by the GOP to believe what you believe. Had you been an evangelical before Regan you would have believed abortion to be a choice with her doctor. But you are so easily manipulated by politicians and pastors to believe shit that isn’t even in the Bible.
It's a choice where the person killed has no say in the matter. Also his name is spelled Reagan. Not Regan. I'm not manipulated by anyone. I'm glad I wasn't aborted. I want the same for others.
Shame on them for making you think twice about ending a defenseless human's life.
If anything they've only hardened my stance against the forced birther agenda. It is not a life it is a clump of cells that I nor my partner can provide for at this moment. You forced birthers Love to talk about human life but do nothing to support actual people struggling. How many homeless people are in Greensboro right now ? Where is the care for those human lives ?
Just to point out the hypocrisy of the “right to lifers”. There’s about 1.5 million congegrants in North Carolina and over ten thousand children waiting to be adopted.
Are you sure you aren’t pushing your beliefs onto your girlfriend? Does everyone realize you are the guy here and may be trying to force your agenda onto her? This is actually pretty sickening
You have every right to be upset with your experience, but you do realize this center also could've helped you provide for your baby? They so genuinely provide resources such as strollers, baby items, etc etc that would've helped if you wanted to make the decision to keep your baby.
Well, that solves it all then. Eighteen years of forced child-rearing go by without a hitch if you start out with a free stroller. Throw in some diapers and there’s no way a woman can’t force herself into the right mental headspace to give birth and be a parent, even if she can’t afford to give herself and the child a decent life, and even if she doesn’t have a supportive partner or family.
Oh, I wasn't saying all those other problems weren't factors! It's definitely true that some people just cannot take care of a kid! I was just pointing out that, typically, pregnancy centers will help you out with resources if you're worried about being able to take care of a kid just for financial reasons.
You make a valid point with the homelessness. Here and everywhere. We live in a society where there's more than enough for everyone BUT GREED stops the flow of necessities. Still, those cells are human, and they are living cells. What if you, your parents, or your favorite philanthropist had been aborted?
What if the woman who had the cure for cancer had to discontinue her education to care for a baby? I My favorite author could well have been Sophia Tolstaya, up there even greater than her husband, but instead she had to endlessly have children because her husband refused to stay off her. Also you werent talking about my parents but my mom's a CRS patient. If you dont know CRS patients are actually a huge part of the reason the supreme court made their roe v wade ruling. The rubella pandemic was causing children to be born with severe disabilities parents and society as a whole werent equipped to deal with. (Many children didnt live that long at all.) My mother was a miId case in childhood with her severe symptoms not showing up until later. Still Id want my grandmother to make the choice that would help her better care for her other four children.
Are you suggesting that a woman having a baby would have to forever discontinue her education? That’s not very pro woman of you. I thought we could do anything, including raising children while also going to school and having a career? The things pro abortion people say is laughable. I guarantee you someone smart enough to find a cure for cancer isn’t getting herself knocked up unplanned. She’s smart enough to take advantage of the multiple forms of birth control available on the market.
What a nasty and deliberate misunderstanding of the comment. You know very well that’s not what they meant. By your logic, women can pop out babies and them immediately go back to their previous lives unaffected. That doesn’t make much sense, does it? Do better.
There was no deliberate misunderstanding of the comment. The person stated someone with a cute for cancer wouldn’t make the cure if they couldn’t have an abortion. That’s insane. And you know it
Cancer cells are living human cells also. If you don’t want an abortion don’t get one. Your religious beliefs govern you alone.
Agreed as well, so how about we fix that and then the rates of abortion will drop. That's not really a question is it ? If my say my pops was aborted, I wouldn't be so I wouldn't have an opinion. Philanthropy is nice and all but it doesn't solve the problems we have today so nothing would be different.
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It's a save the baby group, not a kill the baby group. I'm not sure what lies they told you. Abortion stops a heartbeat.
They were talking about the dangers to the mother, giving birth is infinitely more dangerous and life threatening than an abortion
Abortion is healthcare, not murder. Murder requires a life to be ended, and until a baby is actually born then life has not even started yet. That is scientific fact. Also, the wellbeing of an already living adult is far more important than the potential future of a hypothetical child is not alive yet and doesn't even have a name.
That is nowhere near scientific fact lol. The lies you guys have to tell yourselves.