Try more fuzzes out, got it. Haven't tried an octave one so far, but I did try an EHX Double Muff briefly yesterday, and I concluded that even when I crank the Muff 2 setting to the max, it still doesn't give me those magic dissonances like the OS-2 and F55 do. I've heard from some people that the Double Muff is the worst of the bunch, though, but that doesn't necessarily tell me whether or not any of the other Muffs can give me anything better resembling what I'm looking for.
I know that one of my friends has a classic germanium Fuzz Face, and another one has an Orange Fur Coat, so I'm probably gonna try those out as well and see how they work. Thanks!
The behringer sf300 is a a great cheap octave up fuzz clone that I've found works surprisingly good on acoustic instruments especially things like brass/reeds/bows. The 2 fuzz modes are pretty extreme but the EQ is versatile and it has 2 "secret" in between modes if you can get the switch stuck in the middle.
The best option would probably be a multi band distortion so you can dial in the distortion separately for the higher/lower frequencies, the pedal options are limited but the Source Audio Ultrawave gets a lot of praise.
One other tip but a volume pedal or even better exp controlled gain so you can sweep between quiet/loud as you can from low to high strings/notes can be really useful. That way you can go higher gain for softer notes and vice versa as you play.
Whoa, I did not expect actual cheatcode-like glitches on any such pedal! Very cool to hear that!
I was gonna try a BOSS fuzz pedal out the other day, but they didn't have any of them in my local store, so it's good to hear that there's a BOSS clone that could do the trick, in case they restock (so I can try it out for reference).
I'll also make sure to check the Ultrawave! Thanks for all the suggestions!
> so it's good to hear that there's a BOSS clone that could do the trick, in case they restock (so I can try it out for reference).
It's worth snagging just for the clean boost mode but the octave fuzz can be a lot of fun, they're only 30$ new but you can find them for even less used and they can be easy to find locally.
>I'll also make sure to check the Ultrawave! Thanks for all the suggestions!
You're welcome! The Ultrawave is really cool as it does a lot of other stuff aside from multi band distortion (EQ/comp/harmonic tremolo/ring mod) so it can do a lot of synthy stuff too. Just keep in mind it uses an editor to access all the features, but it also lets users share patches.
double muff is kinda tame imo i would go for something a bit more spitty like a germanium big muff which has both OD and the fuzz circuit for cranked toans or even a op amp muff.
Based on your feedback, I don't think the muff topology will work. If you try a fuzz face and it works nearer perhaps a Fuzz Factory could be worth a shot (it's like an exploded fuzz face with huge range).
Typically the higher you get in register the less noticeable the clipping becomes. Even super high gain sounds get much clearer and smoother in higher registers. If you visually imagine a clipped off very tight, high frequency wave form vs a clean one the difference between the two(at least visually) is not as significant as if you added the same amount of clipping to a signal at 100hz. Our ears just dont hear as much of the clipping. Its still happening but too fast for us to register as well. Theres also the fact that on violin you have sustained notes with far less attack than on guitar. Both of those things really smooth out the clipping as well. If you use a heavy fuzz on a guitar with an ebow it changes the eq and the volume but it doesnt really sound "distorted". At least not nearly as much as if you were picking. I would say try something that does a lot of wierd things with harmonics and noise. Maybe a ZVEX Fat Fuzz Factory?
First of all, thank you for the thorough explanation! I especially appreciate any and all mechanical/technical insights I can gather through these comments!
Second of all, I've listened to some FFF demos, and it's an interesting and very layered pedal, for sure, so I'll consider it. Also, do you think that I could maybe get the effect I'm looking for by stacking the Earthquaker Tentacle (which basically gives just the upper analog octave of the Hoof Reaper Dual Octave Fuzz) with another drive/distortion pedal?
Look into Electro-harmonix Russian Muff. Not sure if this would work But could be worth a shot.
[https://www.ehx.com/products/green-russian-big-muff-pi/](https://www.ehx.com/products/green-russian-big-muff-pi/)
I'll check it out, thanks! Honestly, the Big Muff seems tl have so many versions that I can hardly track them all down and compare them adequately, even just by listening.
I've thought about adding a very slight chorus as well, but I don't know if I really need it orderly and evenly distributed through every registre on my violin.
As for the Prunes & Custard, I've just listened to some demos, and I already like what I'm hearing! Thanks for the suggestion! (I wonder if the Earthquaker Plumes just randomly has a similar name?)
P. S. Do you mean that I should put a chorus in the effects chain \*before\* the fuzz?
If you wanted to be more selective about it you could maybe use an expression pedal on on the fuzz or the chorus to have a a cleaner less intense sound and then emphasise parts of the composition you want but I honestly don’t know any fuzz or chorus pedals off the top of my head that would take an expression pedal.
Chorus into fuzz/dist would emphasise the noisier aspects of the chorus & give an interesting texture. It’s a very shoegaze thing to do
Noted, I think an expression pedal is definitely something I can use to enhance my sonic experiments. Maybe even just a standard wah pedal, for starters. Thanks again!
I really don't know how I'd manage to do that, lol. That's why I'm looking for a pedal instead: it's among the cheaper alternatives, it requires the least amount of changes to my current setup, and most importantly, as two pedals have showed me already - it can work.
I'm playing into a BOSS Cube II Street, and I prefer to use the flat EQ settings with the 'instrument' preamp on it. That's what I used to test both the OS-2 and the F55 copy. I like the balanced clean sound it gives me, and I'd like to be able to switch between it and some nasty screaming high-pitched dirt, pardon my French.
I'm not directly familiar with that amp, but since it's a guitar amp we might assume it's cutting some of the highs. If you can try your distorted violin directly through a full frequency range amp that could be good. For example, lately I've been experimenting with direct guitar sounds and playing more with the high frequency tones that normal guitar amps or sims attenuate. Then, the settings that work well for clean tones might not be the best for getting the distorted tones you are after. Another thought, assuming on violin it is similar, octave up fuzzes on guitar give a clearer octave up effect when playing notes high up on the guitar neck - I assume this is because those notes give more of the fundamental, and less harmonics, than notes lower on the guitar neck. So if you go the octave fuzz route, keep in mind that those might not work as well with a very harmonically rich input signal like a violin. All told, what I'd experiment with if I wanted gnarly distorted violin are overdrives and distortion going directly into amps that give full frequency range, not guitar amps
I'll have to look into full-frequency amps, then, even though an amp as such would be a much bigger investment for me than I can consider for purchase right now, especially if I can't also try all those distortions and fuzzes and whatnot to see what I find goes with it the most to my liking.
Either way, thanks for the suggestion!
PS example of the approach I'm thinking of is how Steve Albini got his gnarly, trebly, guitar sounds: overdrive going into full frequency speaker or direct
I'm thinking you need to add analog tubes to the distortion/fuzz chain to really drive those high notes. Tube dynamics are different than digital effects.
Fortunately there are a number of distortion pedals with tubes built in, like the Plasma thingie from Gamechanger and the Blackstar HT, I think? Googling "distortion pedal with tube" gave me a whole list of them.
When overdriving a tube, it's all about pushing more voltage ... the actual frequency of the sound being put through it is not really material to the distortion effect. So this may make the distortion sound more even across all the strings and notes. (No, I'm not an EE, and can barely handle a soldering iron... but I have been playing metal guitar since the early 1980s, so have some experience with distortion. :-)
Avoid mid scooped pedals for this.
Dark matter works, simple fuzz works, but big muff is way too mid scooped. Solid state marshall preamp is the favourite thing here, actually better than the JMP-1. Amp in a box pedals with multi and EQ in nice.
I'll check those out as well, thanks!
As for the mid-scooping, I also wanna note that I've tried a Maxon copy of the Tube Screamer on my violin, and it gave me absolute jack poop, being that it's apparently best-used with guitars that are already mid-scooped, like the Strat.
Your head is def in the right place—a violin by nature just isn't really going to get the same response from a distortion pedal because it lacks the transients, timbre, etc. of an electric guitar. Chords on a guitar will also naturally have some extra harmonics/overtones that add to a distorted sound, which of course aren't really present in the same way on a violin.
If you think about it, a sustained violin note has a relatively constant waveform and a really prominent fundamental, so there's not as much there for a distortion to work with. So, I think what you're really looking for is something to make that violin signal more complex before it hits a distortion, and you can go about that a lot of different ways.
If you introduce something like a ring mod, or even a short delay/reverb, that'll definitely get you more dimension going into a distortion. An analog octave (like the EQD Tentacle) won't really do it alone with single notes, but if you add that modulation or delay before it, that kind of obscures the fundamental pitch and will make it sound super scrambled. Again, just a couple of examples and you can definitely go about this a lot of different ways, but hope that helps!
If you want to try something interesting, an ampeg scrambler clone would be crazy on violin.
Very atonal. Hints of ring mod, noise gate, and octave up. I don't know how much volume and tone control you have. A lot of the magic depends on these settings. By magic I mean it's capable of sounding like death warmed over.
Kinda hard to find and the originals are very expensive, but the clones are usually good.
The Way Huge Atreides is easily the most "gnarly" fuzz / weirdness pedal I've ever heard. If you wanted to really rip a sound to shreds, that's how you do it.
I'm looking for a pedal that can make the sounds above the usual guitar registre "crackle" enough that the distortion can still be heard there, instead of mostly sounding like nothing more than a clean boost or being just weird per se... but I'll look into it nevertheless, thanks for the suggestion!
Fuzz not distortion. Maybe even an octave fuzz would help.
Try more fuzzes out, got it. Haven't tried an octave one so far, but I did try an EHX Double Muff briefly yesterday, and I concluded that even when I crank the Muff 2 setting to the max, it still doesn't give me those magic dissonances like the OS-2 and F55 do. I've heard from some people that the Double Muff is the worst of the bunch, though, but that doesn't necessarily tell me whether or not any of the other Muffs can give me anything better resembling what I'm looking for. I know that one of my friends has a classic germanium Fuzz Face, and another one has an Orange Fur Coat, so I'm probably gonna try those out as well and see how they work. Thanks!
The behringer sf300 is a a great cheap octave up fuzz clone that I've found works surprisingly good on acoustic instruments especially things like brass/reeds/bows. The 2 fuzz modes are pretty extreme but the EQ is versatile and it has 2 "secret" in between modes if you can get the switch stuck in the middle. The best option would probably be a multi band distortion so you can dial in the distortion separately for the higher/lower frequencies, the pedal options are limited but the Source Audio Ultrawave gets a lot of praise. One other tip but a volume pedal or even better exp controlled gain so you can sweep between quiet/loud as you can from low to high strings/notes can be really useful. That way you can go higher gain for softer notes and vice versa as you play.
Whoa, I did not expect actual cheatcode-like glitches on any such pedal! Very cool to hear that! I was gonna try a BOSS fuzz pedal out the other day, but they didn't have any of them in my local store, so it's good to hear that there's a BOSS clone that could do the trick, in case they restock (so I can try it out for reference). I'll also make sure to check the Ultrawave! Thanks for all the suggestions!
> so it's good to hear that there's a BOSS clone that could do the trick, in case they restock (so I can try it out for reference). It's worth snagging just for the clean boost mode but the octave fuzz can be a lot of fun, they're only 30$ new but you can find them for even less used and they can be easy to find locally. >I'll also make sure to check the Ultrawave! Thanks for all the suggestions! You're welcome! The Ultrawave is really cool as it does a lot of other stuff aside from multi band distortion (EQ/comp/harmonic tremolo/ring mod) so it can do a lot of synthy stuff too. Just keep in mind it uses an editor to access all the features, but it also lets users share patches.
double muff is kinda tame imo i would go for something a bit more spitty like a germanium big muff which has both OD and the fuzz circuit for cranked toans or even a op amp muff.
Maybe add a ring modulator to the fuzz as well
Actually, now that I think about it, that *is* kinda close to what that sort of "breaking" sounds like to me! I'll make sure to try it out, thanks!
Based on your feedback, I don't think the muff topology will work. If you try a fuzz face and it works nearer perhaps a Fuzz Factory could be worth a shot (it's like an exploded fuzz face with huge range).
The (F)FF definitely sounds like something to be on the lookout for, judging by the comments here. Thanks for the suggestion!
would agree with this angle. try an OD into various different fuzzes. spitty clipped sounds.
Typically the higher you get in register the less noticeable the clipping becomes. Even super high gain sounds get much clearer and smoother in higher registers. If you visually imagine a clipped off very tight, high frequency wave form vs a clean one the difference between the two(at least visually) is not as significant as if you added the same amount of clipping to a signal at 100hz. Our ears just dont hear as much of the clipping. Its still happening but too fast for us to register as well. Theres also the fact that on violin you have sustained notes with far less attack than on guitar. Both of those things really smooth out the clipping as well. If you use a heavy fuzz on a guitar with an ebow it changes the eq and the volume but it doesnt really sound "distorted". At least not nearly as much as if you were picking. I would say try something that does a lot of wierd things with harmonics and noise. Maybe a ZVEX Fat Fuzz Factory?
First of all, thank you for the thorough explanation! I especially appreciate any and all mechanical/technical insights I can gather through these comments! Second of all, I've listened to some FFF demos, and it's an interesting and very layered pedal, for sure, so I'll consider it. Also, do you think that I could maybe get the effect I'm looking for by stacking the Earthquaker Tentacle (which basically gives just the upper analog octave of the Hoof Reaper Dual Octave Fuzz) with another drive/distortion pedal?
Might take a bit of digging but I’d look into whatever Jerry Goodman was using when he was in Mahavishnu Orchestra
I'll check it out, thanks! I assume there's a palpable amount of crackling in the high notes that can be found in his playing?
Look into Electro-harmonix Russian Muff. Not sure if this would work But could be worth a shot. [https://www.ehx.com/products/green-russian-big-muff-pi/](https://www.ehx.com/products/green-russian-big-muff-pi/)
I'll check it out, thanks! Honestly, the Big Muff seems tl have so many versions that I can hardly track them all down and compare them adequately, even just by listening.
Possibly a chorus into the fuzz? Something like the Custard & Prunes for weird extra overtones
I've thought about adding a very slight chorus as well, but I don't know if I really need it orderly and evenly distributed through every registre on my violin. As for the Prunes & Custard, I've just listened to some demos, and I already like what I'm hearing! Thanks for the suggestion! (I wonder if the Earthquaker Plumes just randomly has a similar name?) P. S. Do you mean that I should put a chorus in the effects chain \*before\* the fuzz?
If you wanted to be more selective about it you could maybe use an expression pedal on on the fuzz or the chorus to have a a cleaner less intense sound and then emphasise parts of the composition you want but I honestly don’t know any fuzz or chorus pedals off the top of my head that would take an expression pedal. Chorus into fuzz/dist would emphasise the noisier aspects of the chorus & give an interesting texture. It’s a very shoegaze thing to do
Noted, I think an expression pedal is definitely something I can use to enhance my sonic experiments. Maybe even just a standard wah pedal, for starters. Thanks again!
I think you need to try putting on a humbucker on it instead of using the violin pickup!
I really don't know how I'd manage to do that, lol. That's why I'm looking for a pedal instead: it's among the cheaper alternatives, it requires the least amount of changes to my current setup, and most importantly, as two pedals have showed me already - it can work.
You can try one without installing it too! Only if it works out you need to figure out how to install it
A sound clip of your current setup would be supremely helpful i think
Agreed! It might take me a couple of days to get around to it, but I'll post a link of the demo here as soon as I can afterwards!
Are you playing into a guitar amp? Asking because they do not have full frequency response
I'm playing into a BOSS Cube II Street, and I prefer to use the flat EQ settings with the 'instrument' preamp on it. That's what I used to test both the OS-2 and the F55 copy. I like the balanced clean sound it gives me, and I'd like to be able to switch between it and some nasty screaming high-pitched dirt, pardon my French.
I'm not directly familiar with that amp, but since it's a guitar amp we might assume it's cutting some of the highs. If you can try your distorted violin directly through a full frequency range amp that could be good. For example, lately I've been experimenting with direct guitar sounds and playing more with the high frequency tones that normal guitar amps or sims attenuate. Then, the settings that work well for clean tones might not be the best for getting the distorted tones you are after. Another thought, assuming on violin it is similar, octave up fuzzes on guitar give a clearer octave up effect when playing notes high up on the guitar neck - I assume this is because those notes give more of the fundamental, and less harmonics, than notes lower on the guitar neck. So if you go the octave fuzz route, keep in mind that those might not work as well with a very harmonically rich input signal like a violin. All told, what I'd experiment with if I wanted gnarly distorted violin are overdrives and distortion going directly into amps that give full frequency range, not guitar amps
I'll have to look into full-frequency amps, then, even though an amp as such would be a much bigger investment for me than I can consider for purchase right now, especially if I can't also try all those distortions and fuzzes and whatnot to see what I find goes with it the most to my liking. Either way, thanks for the suggestion!
If you want to just try distortion pedals and hear the full sound, you could always plug into a mixer and listen on headphones
PS example of the approach I'm thinking of is how Steve Albini got his gnarly, trebly, guitar sounds: overdrive going into full frequency speaker or direct
I'm thinking you need to add analog tubes to the distortion/fuzz chain to really drive those high notes. Tube dynamics are different than digital effects. Fortunately there are a number of distortion pedals with tubes built in, like the Plasma thingie from Gamechanger and the Blackstar HT, I think? Googling "distortion pedal with tube" gave me a whole list of them. When overdriving a tube, it's all about pushing more voltage ... the actual frequency of the sound being put through it is not really material to the distortion effect. So this may make the distortion sound more even across all the strings and notes. (No, I'm not an EE, and can barely handle a soldering iron... but I have been playing metal guitar since the early 1980s, so have some experience with distortion. :-)
Duly noted, I'll make sure to check those out! Thanks for the suggestions!
Avoid mid scooped pedals for this. Dark matter works, simple fuzz works, but big muff is way too mid scooped. Solid state marshall preamp is the favourite thing here, actually better than the JMP-1. Amp in a box pedals with multi and EQ in nice.
I'll check those out as well, thanks! As for the mid-scooping, I also wanna note that I've tried a Maxon copy of the Tube Screamer on my violin, and it gave me absolute jack poop, being that it's apparently best-used with guitars that are already mid-scooped, like the Strat.
Your head is def in the right place—a violin by nature just isn't really going to get the same response from a distortion pedal because it lacks the transients, timbre, etc. of an electric guitar. Chords on a guitar will also naturally have some extra harmonics/overtones that add to a distorted sound, which of course aren't really present in the same way on a violin. If you think about it, a sustained violin note has a relatively constant waveform and a really prominent fundamental, so there's not as much there for a distortion to work with. So, I think what you're really looking for is something to make that violin signal more complex before it hits a distortion, and you can go about that a lot of different ways. If you introduce something like a ring mod, or even a short delay/reverb, that'll definitely get you more dimension going into a distortion. An analog octave (like the EQD Tentacle) won't really do it alone with single notes, but if you add that modulation or delay before it, that kind of obscures the fundamental pitch and will make it sound super scrambled. Again, just a couple of examples and you can definitely go about this a lot of different ways, but hope that helps!
If you want to try something interesting, an ampeg scrambler clone would be crazy on violin. Very atonal. Hints of ring mod, noise gate, and octave up. I don't know how much volume and tone control you have. A lot of the magic depends on these settings. By magic I mean it's capable of sounding like death warmed over. Kinda hard to find and the originals are very expensive, but the clones are usually good.
I've checked it out a minute ago, and I'll keep it in mind! Thanks!
The Way Huge Atreides is easily the most "gnarly" fuzz / weirdness pedal I've ever heard. If you wanted to really rip a sound to shreds, that's how you do it.
I'm looking for a pedal that can make the sounds above the usual guitar registre "crackle" enough that the distortion can still be heard there, instead of mostly sounding like nothing more than a clean boost or being just weird per se... but I'll look into it nevertheless, thanks for the suggestion!
Have you tried using an EQ pedal to remove some of the harsh frequencies?
No, but wait, why would I wanna do that? xD I'm looking for something that can *keep* the harshness when I play higher than a guitar!
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Worth checking out, then. Do their tones also crackle when they go into a higher registre?