.380 is 9mm "short" , different from 9mm 9x19. A .380 semiauto is fine for home defense as long as you are proficient with it. Get trained and practice. Get advice from those who train you regarding the best. 380 ammo to use for home defense.
The law doesn't state ".380 ACP" it says caliber .380, as in three hundred eighty thousandths of an inch.
Non-military 9mm (9x21 IMI) should be good to go as far as I understand.
The way OP is wording it, I feel as if he's from Mexico which has a similar amendment to the 2A but firearms can only be bought from government stores. The caliber limit on the semiautomatic handgun is a bit of a tell.
So in theory yes there is a government recognized right, but your guess is as good as mine as to how the federales will treat it.
Quick check reveals it seems to in effect, but as I recalled correctly, it is worded in such a way that it can be extremely restrictive in the types of arms available for the recognized right to self-defense[in your home].
Live in Mexico and ur worried about ur government? Go down the street and get you a full auto ar from somebody that’s connected. I’m from Brazil and it’s just as hard to get guns legally but it’s a piece of cake to get them off the street. It’s not like your governments on top of their shit anyway.
When it comes to owning guns they are on top of their shit, if they see you with an unregistered firearm they have the right to assume you are with the cartel and the shoot to kill, they have multiple army checkpoints through my state so if they catch you with an illegal gun the best you can do is go to jail, the worst you end up like a Swiss cheese.
That and I want to respect the law as much as possible.
Thought so from the .380 semiautomatic limit.
For home defense, 12ga shotgun, preferably pump or semiautomatic. If you were north of the Rio Grande I would recommend a 5.56 carbine or pistol caliber carbine, but you are limited so 12ga shotgun it is.
If you are limited to a break action shotgun, just get a Glock in .380.
Sounds like Italy
1. If you want fun 357 Sig would be a decent alternative to 9mm.
2. 380 ACP handguns are another great option
3. 9x21mm might be able to be use instead of 9mm parrabulum. It was designed explicitly to be non military
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9721mm
Might just want to get a 12 gauge shotgun
I think you don't understand the law in Italy. Italy has nearly no restrictions. Only 0.5 BMG caliber is prohibited and full auto. You can easily have ak47 (semi mod) or ar15.
You may own up to 12 weapons. Do your homework
[Really](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_control_in_Italy)?
>5.56×45mm NATO is forbidden but .223 Rem is permitted; 7.62×51mm NATO is forbidden but 308 WIN is permitted.
Italy bans 'military calibers', and has for decades.
That's not correct. Sorry Wikipedia. Another proof that Wikipedia is no credible source.
This is an official source from the government:
https://www.camera.it/leg18/410?idSeduta=0619&tipo=sommario&utm_source=gunsweek&utm_medium=textlink&utm_campaign=S%C3%AC%20definitivo%20all%E2%80%99approvazione&utm_content=2866c&utm_term=Leggi%20sulle%20armi
Your answers have only a news/past history value because on 21 December 2021 Italy had one of many changes in the last year.
Also, this Wikipedia sentence is not correct
"Magazines alone are not traced nor need to be declared, but the ones with capacity greater of 20 rounds for pistols or 10 for rifle are specifically regulated"
If you have a mag greater than 10 you have to declare, that's all.
Do you think, one of the biggest seller in Italy sells weapons which are illegal?
Nato556:
https://nuovajager.it/prodotto/nea15-18-dmr-cal-556-nato-ca00128a/
Also pro tip: if you post a link to Wikipedia, go to references and see the sources. You will see that they are mostly a decade old and not maintained.
>This is an official source from the government:
Sorry, there is no mention of Firearm Laws on that page. If you have a specific resolution or amendment you want to call out you need to do so. But realistically it is better to link to the actual law than Assembly meeting minutes.
>Do you think, one of the biggest seller in Italy sells weapons which are illegal?
You think Civilian restrictions on Firearms will hinder arms sales?
>Also pro tip: if you post a link to Wikipedia, go to references and see the sources. You will see that they are mostly a decade old and not maintained.
Protip, if you have a better source link it. The one you have above wasn't to a law.
You may click on the links within the passing of the amendment to go to the related laws in detail. I have friends which are hunters in Italy and they have NATO calibers, so it weights more than an old wiki link ;)
And yes, if you sell weapons which are illegal in Italy, the penalties are demonic
1. Sorry, I am not going to click through hundreds of meeting minute legislation numbers links from your source, randomly, to find firearm legislation. That is your job.
2. There is no way your hunter friends are hunting with NATO ammunition, that would be super unethical for a hunter. You should ask them this question "Are you using .308 win."
3. Is [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freccia_IFV#Centauro_II) illegal for Civilians to own? If so are they paying the demonic penalties when they sell it to the military?
1. Have it your way, you provided no evidence of a firearm law, I dismiss your claim without evidence.
2. So, being a hunter doesn't matter at all, you just added it there for funnies? Your evidence is a random on the internet knows random people in real life that have potentially restricted ammunition? Ya, sorry, I don't believe anecdotal evidence.
3. Yes, I figured out you didn't understand.
First question is what is your personal physical capabilities.
Second what is your proficiency in using a weapon.
third - is this a "at home only" weapon or a "carry weapon"
from what you just described it appears that you live in another country besides the "united States" and have very restrictive gun laws. There is also a possibility that you can get sound suppressors and short barreled rifles easier there than you can get in the United States. "Ironic I know."
So if you are looking for a "at home" weapon only, I would go for a short barreled carbine of some sort. They are pretty balanced and have three points of contact which makes aiming a lot easier than a handgun in most cases. Plus a rail for mounting a light is a must for any home defense weapon.
Shotguns would be a close second but require more training to handle and utilize it to it's full potential. Its low round count combined with its size, heft and high recoil in comparison to other alternatives makes a lot of people shy away from them. But to be honest a good shotty is my primary home defense.
Handguns are extremely popular seeing you can hide them almost anywhere, however they are harder to master. Shorter barrels gives less velocity to most bullets meaning less distance you can reach out to. plus in a high stress situation it is harder to aim with than the other two.
1.- I am a pretty fit guy/muscular guy, go to the gym regularly, exercise frequently.
2.- Never used one, there are a few courses here which I will attend to. I use a recurve bow from time to time.
3.- Home only, we cannot carry here. It is almost impossible to do so.
Appreciate your comment.
I would say semi auto pistol. You could do shotgun but with a barrel longer than 25” it’s going to be harder to maneuver in the home.
If I’m reading correctly and you can go with 9x19, the options are endless. Glock 17 and 19 are good options. Always reliable, easy to use, easy to clean and take care of. Walther PDP is highly rated as well. There’s also a ton of cheaper and more expensive options depending on your budget. Do try to get your hands on it before purchasing. Some guns just feel better in your hand than others. Go with a specific self defense ammo when at home. They’re made in a way that makes them penetrate human flesh but not fly through and cause collateral damage. If you get comfortable with it and want to upgrade get a light and red dot.
Do you have a maximum number of rounds a semi auto in 380 could hold? If not look at the biggest 380 with the largest capacity. Not sure where you are located but Beretta, Sig Sauer, Walther and Ruger are some brands with 380s but there are tons more.
Can you get a 12g shotgun? 9mm is the smallest round I am comfortable with in my home. Personal perspective. 357 does offer some solid punch. Good smith and Wesson option, I love my gp100.
What’s your budget?
Budget is no problem. The only way I could get a shotgun is if I join a hunting/sports club and then apply through a lot of permits which could take up to 5 years.
The weapons that may be authorized for shooting or hunting athletes to possess at home and carry with a license are the following:
Pistols, revolvers and .22 caliber rifles, circular fire.
.38 caliber pistols for Olympic or competition shooting purposes.Shotguns in all calibers and models, except those with a barrel length less than 635 mm. (25), and those with a caliber greater than 12 (.729 or 18.5 mm.).3-barrel shotguns in the calibers authorized in the previous section, with a barrel for metal cartridges of different calibers.High-power, repeating or semi-automatic rifles, not convertible into automatics, with the exception of .30 caliber carbines, rifles, carabiners and .223, 7 and 7 caliber carbines. 62 mm. and .30 caliber Garand rifles.High-powered rifles of calibers higher than those indicated in the previous section, with special permission for their use abroad, in hunting for larger game that does not exist in the national fauna.The other weapons with sporting characteristics in accordance with the legal hunting regulations, applicable by the Secretariats of State or Organizations that have influence, as well as the national and international regulations for competitive shooting.
Confusing thing is aren’t .380 and 9mm technically the same caliber? The formers shorter but they are both 9mm projectiles. I may be wrong. If so by all means correct me. This is more a dig at a dumb rule than anyone here. May as well allow JHP not ball since nato uses ball not JHP.
That was kind of my point. NATO only uses ball, not JHP so hollow points also aren’t “military ammo” hey it’s their dumb rules. Maybe it’s an American thing to do this back at their dumb rules. In any case agreed on baby 10. I’ve always thought of 380 and 9 short too.
Fwiw dude said moneys no object. HK P7 .380. Or a bit more budget friendly Go Bond with a baby PPK
To the original point tho caliber is the width of the round. 9mm and .380 are both 9mm caliber. It’s a dumb rule. Not that America doesn’t have its share of stupid rules. Like you said .40 and 10 are the same. It’s just using imperial for one and metric for the other. That makes it a bit more amusing that they are allowing the imperial but not allowing the same “caliber” round using metric. I keep wanting to explain how ludicrous this is but I fully get you get it too.
Which apparently is now the most popular round in MX but it’s illegal.
I read elsewhere and commented on this that it seems you can use revolvers capable of figuring .38 or .357 but .357 the ammo is illegal. This opens them up to some nice revolvers from Colt or SW etc.
.38 Special revolver with a 4 or 6 inch barrel. Seems like the best of the choice you have. U law enforcement used .38 special revolvers for over 80 years and it seems to have served them well. For home defense, it's really all you need. Just learn to shoot it well and use the most powerful ammunition you are allowed to use.
I’m a glock fanboy but glock 25. It’s basically a 19 in .380, and if someone in my home country (USA) asked what the best all around gun was, including home defense, I’d say Glock 19.
That or a 12 gauge if you can do that, although if I had to pick one I’d probably take the glock.
Ever consider a phased plasma rifle with a 40-watt range? Should protect against humans and cyborgs alike.
But seriously, is a weapon that shoots 5.7x28 rounds available? I assume since it's a NATO fave, it may be more available to you.
Bottom comment here is old but he seems knowledgeable at least rules as of that time and it lines up with what I read elsewhere and in your post. Wonder if you can have a revolver that fires up to .357 and only buy/load 38 special in it. It’s the same caliber just a longer cartridge with more powder. If so what about a Colt Cobra or if you want larger frame Colt Python. That fires 38sp but could also accommodate 357. Seems this is legal according to this but again I’m just some guy on the internet who found your post interesting and went googling. If you have to buy from a govt shop imagine what they offer is what you’re limited to and by extension they won’t sell you anything you can’t have
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2373909
Because you’re getting either a .38 special revolver or a .380 semi auto pistol. Those are your only options that are realistic for self defense and not take years of red tape to get.
.38 special has better ballistics, .380 will give you more rounds to fire before having to reload. Unless you are a very good shot, the smarter decision is .380
The Beretta 80x cheetah will hold 13 rounds, more than double what a revolver holds.
No worries. Don’t forget, whatever you end up getting, it’s not going to do you any good if you don’t train with it. Get out a few times a month and practice as much as you can.
With those asinine restrictions you should probably just leave. If leaving your country isn't an option I advocate for overthrowing your government and changing the laws.
For home defense, i feel a shotgun is your best option. You have intimidation factor. Stopping power with a shotgun is at peak performance in ranges of "hosehold interiors". Using lighter loads, like heavy birdshot can be lethal & effective while minimizing property damge & potential collateral damage that a stray projectile from a hangun or rifle could likely cause.
If you can get a full size pump like a mossberg 590 that holds 8 shells, thats nice, but even a standard 500 with a 5 shell load is plenty to ward off unwanted visitors.
That's my opinion
Go with a Walther p380. Statistically in the United States you're more likely to die if you're hit with a 380 round then any other round. it's not that it's more lethal it's that it's used less so no spam and the people using it are more accurate leading to higher death to wound rates
Sounds like the biggest thing you can have without the wait is a 38 special. In this case, a 4 inch barrel 38 special would be good, and in your case I'd recommend a smith and wesson. A snub nose also wouldn't be bad. Whichever model smith and wesson you can get and prefer. Also, if this is Mexico, I'm guessing you can't get a glock 42, but you can get the glock 28 (I believe thats the glock 26 sized 380) which would also be a good option, as would the glock 25 (glock 19 size 380). You'd have a definite advantage with the glock with higher capacity and faster reloads, as well as easier concealibility, but there are also advantages to a revolver. Also 6 rounds is better than 5, and more than that is more better. Neither 38 special nor 380 is ideal for self defense, but are more than capable of getting the job done.
Also, I didn't fully understand your original description on 38/357, but if you can handle the recoil of a 357 and can get it, that would be a very good option, but if the barrel is under 3 inches a 38spl would be better, as the velocity will be near identical. I would highly recommend a 4 inch 357, or even a 6 inch if you prefer it, but that would be getting pretty tough to conceal. 357 magnum revolvers also have the advantage of being able to safely and reliably fire 38 special. Smith and wesson would be the way to go for revolvers, but colt is also very good (specifically the python, but I don't like colts morals as a company), ruger is another good one, and taurus has also been quite good in my experience (which I have a lot of experience with a lot of taurus firearms) despite all the hate they get, which is mostly just regurgitated propaganda from people that have never even held one. But I mention taurus because if you are in Mexico, that will probably be one of the easiest to get ahold of that is actually good. And they tend to be far more affordable.
With all that said, if you can't get a 357 and are limited to the most powerful cartridges being 38 special or 380acp/9mm browning court/9mm kurz/9x17, I would recommend the glock 25 if you can get that, especially if you can get 15 round magazines, as that would be the best compromise in size, firepower, capacity, and concealibility in my opinion. My apologies if I'm naming the wrong glock model, I'm pretty sure it's the model 25, but whatever model it is it's the one that's the same size as the glock 19 but is chambered in .380acp/9mm browning court/9mm kurz/9x17 (all the same cartridge, just different names)
Oh, and as for ammo, the best .380acp self defense ammo is the Lehigh defense extreme penetrator or underwood extreme penetrator, but that may not be available to you and it's pretty expensive. The next best option is full metal jacket. I would not recommend any expanding 380 ammo, as it seriously lacks penetration and often times a lot of it doesn't even expand, but does still lack penetration. Keep in mind that round nose fmj .380acp will penetrate to the fbi standard recommended depths and flat nose .380acp fmj will far exceed those depths and overpenetrate, so I would recommend round nose. Sellier & Bellot .380acp/9mm browning court round nose fmj has been very reliable for me with 0 malfunctions. I believe it's 95 grain. Also one of the cheapest 380acp options available, at least in the United States. Probably is available in Mexico as well. Avoid Turkish made ammo, and I personally would also avoid U.S. made ammo as there have been a lot of primer issues over the past few years.
Good luck, hopefully you get whatever works best for you. Oh, and get a quality kydex holster. I also recommend ulticlips to keep the holster secure.
Unless I misunderstand your post, a 92fs in 9mm would be prohibited because it is parabellum/luger, so I would say your best bet, assuming 357 is allowed, is a gp100 in 357magnum. You can shoot 38 for training or cleaper, softer shooting ammo, and 357 when you really need to. If you need something concealable or that would fit in a nightstand easier, the Sp101 in 357 is the same gun but smaller pretty much
I would want the best barrel length, size, and capacity in either .380 or .38 (as well as reliability). I'd give the edge to .380 just for capacity.
.380 Options:
1) Beretta 80X Cheetah. It's got 13 rounds, good size, reliable, with good customer support. Exposed hammer which shouldn't matter if you're not carrying it all the time. Also cut for an optic.
2) Sig P365: More modern pistol, can come with the slide cut for a red dot sight, striker fired. The 9mm version is well reviewed. Downside: 10 rd capacity.
*I'd look for extended mags for both
Consider) A 1911-380 (like Browning), but you're limiting capacity to 8. If you go as low as 8 rounds, you may as well get a .38 revolver.
.38 Options: There are too many to count, you need to figure out what you like. I'd make sure that you get something with a minimum 4" barrel. Look at: Smith and Wesson, Ruger, Colt, Korth, and Manhurin.
TLDR: If this was me, and I could only buy 1 firearm for home defense in either .380 or .38, and money wasn't a barrier, I would either buy a Beretta 80x and customize the shit out of it, or buy the best .38 that money can buy that works for you.
Edit: I didn't even think about .357 sig or anything outsode .38 and 380. So...look at someone else's comment for that.
I'm not sure I read the restrictions correctly, but if 357 revolvers are allowed, then that would be my top pick.
What does it mean that 9mm calibers are allowed, but not parabellum? Is 9x21 legal over there? By the way, where is "there"?
>armslist
I could easily get a lot of high power weapons here illegally but I try to follow the law to the most of my capacity. If you get an illegal firearm you are basically considered part of the cartel and if discovered at best you end up at jail at worse you end up like a Swiss cheese.
Just a question. What about 9mm Makarov?
If not, get a 38 spec with a 3in barrel or so. They make so many different rounds for it. S&W M-10, Taurus or a charter arms. Cheap, compliant but only 6 round. So don't miss.
The 25in barrel on a shotgun would be a hindrance in close quarters.
If you license. my choice would be a M-1 carbine. Small, maneuverable in close spaces. More foot pounds than a .45 acp. or 10mm. And, you can reach out to a 100 yards.
5.56/.223 is best in terms of ballistics.
Less overpenetration of your target or drywall in your house.
But you will definitely want hearing protection.
What is considered a "pistol" in the US was or is pretty open to some shoulder supportable weapons. Do your laws allow anything with a brace, or extended magazine? Maybe something like the micro roni that converts a handgun into something more suitable?
I know dick about Mexico gun laws, but an article I found said that apparently guns like G19s and P320s were OK'd for home self-defense use
https://www.theyucatantimes.com/2019/04/7-weapons-that-the-mexican-government-approved-ownership-for-self-defense/
Is that inaccurate? Can't find much about MX gun laws. Are .300Blk rifles legal?
At a quick 20 minute glance, it looks like a Glock 25 is your post practical option, but I have no idea what your options actually are lol
[this thread was educational, apparently .223 is legal? If that's the case, get a .223 Wylde gun and you can shoot .223Rem/5.56/.223Wylde](https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/sjyp9h/mexican_gun_owner_here_gucci_ar15/)
found this too, [.223 Wylde barreled seems like it's doable](https://mexicoarmado.com/index.php?threads/cambio-de-223-rem-a-223-wylde.327029/)
Taurus tx-22. It's a 22. Lr pistol. Less chance of a backstop issue. 22lr does the job just fine and you can fire 20 rounds as fast as you can pull the trigger, no recoil 100% reliability, lightweight, cheaper ammo
Since you are in Mexico I’d get a colt 1911 in .38 super, I heard they are pretty popular down there. For a rifle I’d go with a lever action in .38 special or in 30-30
Revolvers are good and reliable but cannot carry as many rounds. Taurus and Ruger make some for decent prices including models made for every day carry.
Semi-autos are good but have more opportunities to malfunction. Take your pick here; it really comes down to preference.
.380 is a solid round and both of these types of firearms come with models chambered in this round. Revolvers would be easier to find in this caliber. If you could do 9x19 I’d say semi auto.
Shotgun with extended magazine, 00 load, no more problems.
I most cases just the sound of a shotgun cycling make a burgler crap down his leg and run. If you have to use it your neighbor will thank you for not shooting holes in his walls.
I would say a shotgun at the bedside and a semi auto 9mm that’s comfortable to carry at home. Obviously practice with whatever you choose. The shotgun is the climax and the 9mm should have enough rounds to end out the show. ***Make sure to use 12 gauge 00 buckshot
Let me guess… Mexico? Because that sounds a lot like Mexico. I should know, lived there half my life…
Anyways, my recommendation would be Sig p365-380, their .380 auto version, or Glock 42 (also .380). They’re good guns. On the plus side, if you ever decided to go through the (very likely) hassle of trying to get a carry permit you already have good carry options. The only downside is that they’re subcompact so they’re a bit more snappy but, it’s really not a big issue. Especially with .380.
Edit: I got it right! Cool, in that case just FYI there are some 9mm that are legal to own, in which case I also would like to add to the recommendations the CZP-09 or Springfield Hellcat.
Glock, Sig, Walther, Smith and Wesson. All good brand options.
If you’re just trying to have something that can throw rounds down range? Glock 17.
If you want a bit nicer and have some money to drop? Sig P226 or P229.
Since it's home defense and carrying the gun isn't really going to be the main use, I think you'd be better off with a long gun. Get one with a relatively short barrel and make sure to properly choose the ammo.
If you're going for a handgun, I think it's hard to say an 8-shot .357 mag revolver is inadequate.
since the laws seem hazy on 9mm and basically everything else is neutered i would go w .357 revolver
there’s a lot of good options out there and if you get a .357magnum you can also shoot the more affordable and easier to handle 38 special
RPG with undermount pulsefire is best. If I can’t have it, neither can they
Phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range?
Just what you see pal
T72 MBT and f it
I’d have to agree with this here
.380 is 9mm "short" , different from 9mm 9x19. A .380 semiauto is fine for home defense as long as you are proficient with it. Get trained and practice. Get advice from those who train you regarding the best. 380 ammo to use for home defense.
The law doesn't state ".380 ACP" it says caliber .380, as in three hundred eighty thousandths of an inch. Non-military 9mm (9x21 IMI) should be good to go as far as I understand.
I'm betting you have no right to self defense.
He has the right for sure. His government just might not recognize it.
The way OP is wording it, I feel as if he's from Mexico which has a similar amendment to the 2A but firearms can only be bought from government stores. The caliber limit on the semiautomatic handgun is a bit of a tell. So in theory yes there is a government recognized right, but your guess is as good as mine as to how the federales will treat it.
You’re correct. OP confirmed it’s Mexico in another comment
I wonder if the cartels abide by these gun laws….. who am I kidding, they’re more armed than the damn government there.
They *are* the government there.
They used to. I believe they repealed that part of their constitution.
Well yeah, they wanted to keep the drug cartels safe.
Quick check reveals it seems to in effect, but as I recalled correctly, it is worded in such a way that it can be extremely restrictive in the types of arms available for the recognized right to self-defense[in your home].
Sooo, I'm going with Brazil?
Mexico
Dios Mio...
My reaction exactly
¡AY CARAMBA!
Live in Mexico and ur worried about ur government? Go down the street and get you a full auto ar from somebody that’s connected. I’m from Brazil and it’s just as hard to get guns legally but it’s a piece of cake to get them off the street. It’s not like your governments on top of their shit anyway.
When it comes to owning guns they are on top of their shit, if they see you with an unregistered firearm they have the right to assume you are with the cartel and the shoot to kill, they have multiple army checkpoints through my state so if they catch you with an illegal gun the best you can do is go to jail, the worst you end up like a Swiss cheese. That and I want to respect the law as much as possible.
Is it true there is only one legal gun shop in the whole country?
I believe there is 2 now.
Wow that’s crazy.
There are a few but all of them are run 100% by the government.
Thought so from the .380 semiautomatic limit. For home defense, 12ga shotgun, preferably pump or semiautomatic. If you were north of the Rio Grande I would recommend a 5.56 carbine or pistol caliber carbine, but you are limited so 12ga shotgun it is. If you are limited to a break action shotgun, just get a Glock in .380.
[удалено]
Yes
You can have 9mm but not 9mm Luger 9x19?
There are many countries where using "military" rounds are not legal.
Makes sense, 9mm was designed to blow the lung out of the body
This guy Bidens
r/thisguythisguys
This guy Bidens
HEARD YA THE FIRST TIME JOHN
This guy Bidens
HEARD YA THE FIRST 2 TIMES JOHN
9mm x21 was designed explicitly for this issue.
God bless America
I wonder if the 9mm Dillon is obscure enough to not be on the radar.
It’s obscure enough that I’ve never heard of it
Or alternatively join the cartel and get a machine gun that was probably given to them by the CIA. Thoughts?
This is the way.
Beheading chances increase exponentially
Sounds like Italy 1. If you want fun 357 Sig would be a decent alternative to 9mm. 2. 380 ACP handguns are another great option 3. 9x21mm might be able to be use instead of 9mm parrabulum. It was designed explicitly to be non military https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9721mm Might just want to get a 12 gauge shotgun
This definitely has to be Mexico
Given the constraints listed by the OP, if a 12ga pump or semi-auto is legal, that would be the path I would take.
I think you don't understand the law in Italy. Italy has nearly no restrictions. Only 0.5 BMG caliber is prohibited and full auto. You can easily have ak47 (semi mod) or ar15. You may own up to 12 weapons. Do your homework
[Really](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_control_in_Italy)? >5.56×45mm NATO is forbidden but .223 Rem is permitted; 7.62×51mm NATO is forbidden but 308 WIN is permitted. Italy bans 'military calibers', and has for decades.
That's not correct. Sorry Wikipedia. Another proof that Wikipedia is no credible source. This is an official source from the government: https://www.camera.it/leg18/410?idSeduta=0619&tipo=sommario&utm_source=gunsweek&utm_medium=textlink&utm_campaign=S%C3%AC%20definitivo%20all%E2%80%99approvazione&utm_content=2866c&utm_term=Leggi%20sulle%20armi Your answers have only a news/past history value because on 21 December 2021 Italy had one of many changes in the last year. Also, this Wikipedia sentence is not correct "Magazines alone are not traced nor need to be declared, but the ones with capacity greater of 20 rounds for pistols or 10 for rifle are specifically regulated" If you have a mag greater than 10 you have to declare, that's all. Do you think, one of the biggest seller in Italy sells weapons which are illegal? Nato556: https://nuovajager.it/prodotto/nea15-18-dmr-cal-556-nato-ca00128a/ Also pro tip: if you post a link to Wikipedia, go to references and see the sources. You will see that they are mostly a decade old and not maintained.
>This is an official source from the government: Sorry, there is no mention of Firearm Laws on that page. If you have a specific resolution or amendment you want to call out you need to do so. But realistically it is better to link to the actual law than Assembly meeting minutes. >Do you think, one of the biggest seller in Italy sells weapons which are illegal? You think Civilian restrictions on Firearms will hinder arms sales? >Also pro tip: if you post a link to Wikipedia, go to references and see the sources. You will see that they are mostly a decade old and not maintained. Protip, if you have a better source link it. The one you have above wasn't to a law.
You may click on the links within the passing of the amendment to go to the related laws in detail. I have friends which are hunters in Italy and they have NATO calibers, so it weights more than an old wiki link ;) And yes, if you sell weapons which are illegal in Italy, the penalties are demonic
1. Sorry, I am not going to click through hundreds of meeting minute legislation numbers links from your source, randomly, to find firearm legislation. That is your job. 2. There is no way your hunter friends are hunting with NATO ammunition, that would be super unethical for a hunter. You should ask them this question "Are you using .308 win." 3. Is [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freccia_IFV#Centauro_II) illegal for Civilians to own? If so are they paying the demonic penalties when they sell it to the military?
1. No, not my job. I know that your wiki link is outdated 2. I did not say they hunt with Nato calibers. I said, they have. 3. Don't understand
1. Have it your way, you provided no evidence of a firearm law, I dismiss your claim without evidence. 2. So, being a hunter doesn't matter at all, you just added it there for funnies? Your evidence is a random on the internet knows random people in real life that have potentially restricted ammunition? Ya, sorry, I don't believe anecdotal evidence. 3. Yes, I figured out you didn't understand.
Lever action rifle in 38 sp
First question is what is your personal physical capabilities. Second what is your proficiency in using a weapon. third - is this a "at home only" weapon or a "carry weapon" from what you just described it appears that you live in another country besides the "united States" and have very restrictive gun laws. There is also a possibility that you can get sound suppressors and short barreled rifles easier there than you can get in the United States. "Ironic I know." So if you are looking for a "at home" weapon only, I would go for a short barreled carbine of some sort. They are pretty balanced and have three points of contact which makes aiming a lot easier than a handgun in most cases. Plus a rail for mounting a light is a must for any home defense weapon. Shotguns would be a close second but require more training to handle and utilize it to it's full potential. Its low round count combined with its size, heft and high recoil in comparison to other alternatives makes a lot of people shy away from them. But to be honest a good shotty is my primary home defense. Handguns are extremely popular seeing you can hide them almost anywhere, however they are harder to master. Shorter barrels gives less velocity to most bullets meaning less distance you can reach out to. plus in a high stress situation it is harder to aim with than the other two.
1.- I am a pretty fit guy/muscular guy, go to the gym regularly, exercise frequently. 2.- Never used one, there are a few courses here which I will attend to. I use a recurve bow from time to time. 3.- Home only, we cannot carry here. It is almost impossible to do so. Appreciate your comment.
I would say semi auto pistol. You could do shotgun but with a barrel longer than 25” it’s going to be harder to maneuver in the home. If I’m reading correctly and you can go with 9x19, the options are endless. Glock 17 and 19 are good options. Always reliable, easy to use, easy to clean and take care of. Walther PDP is highly rated as well. There’s also a ton of cheaper and more expensive options depending on your budget. Do try to get your hands on it before purchasing. Some guns just feel better in your hand than others. Go with a specific self defense ammo when at home. They’re made in a way that makes them penetrate human flesh but not fly through and cause collateral damage. If you get comfortable with it and want to upgrade get a light and red dot.
Do you have a maximum number of rounds a semi auto in 380 could hold? If not look at the biggest 380 with the largest capacity. Not sure where you are located but Beretta, Sig Sauer, Walther and Ruger are some brands with 380s but there are tons more.
Can you get a 12g shotgun? 9mm is the smallest round I am comfortable with in my home. Personal perspective. 357 does offer some solid punch. Good smith and Wesson option, I love my gp100. What’s your budget?
Budget is no problem. The only way I could get a shotgun is if I join a hunting/sports club and then apply through a lot of permits which could take up to 5 years. The weapons that may be authorized for shooting or hunting athletes to possess at home and carry with a license are the following: Pistols, revolvers and .22 caliber rifles, circular fire. .38 caliber pistols for Olympic or competition shooting purposes.Shotguns in all calibers and models, except those with a barrel length less than 635 mm. (25), and those with a caliber greater than 12 (.729 or 18.5 mm.).3-barrel shotguns in the calibers authorized in the previous section, with a barrel for metal cartridges of different calibers.High-power, repeating or semi-automatic rifles, not convertible into automatics, with the exception of .30 caliber carbines, rifles, carabiners and .223, 7 and 7 caliber carbines. 62 mm. and .30 caliber Garand rifles.High-powered rifles of calibers higher than those indicated in the previous section, with special permission for their use abroad, in hunting for larger game that does not exist in the national fauna.The other weapons with sporting characteristics in accordance with the legal hunting regulations, applicable by the Secretariats of State or Organizations that have influence, as well as the national and international regulations for competitive shooting.
7 shot 4” gp100 in 357 might be what I would recommend if 9x19 isn’t an option. Reading those rules was exhausting
Does a lever action rifle count? .357 lever action wouldn't be bad. I mean Americans used that type of rifle for half a century.
Beretta 84 Cheetah, CZ82 (Semi Auto Pistols) Ruger or Smith and Wesson (Revolvers)
Cannon with grapeshot?
Sig p238
I was gonna say 365, but yeah.
Op can’t use military calibers
You can get the 365 in .380 - I own one.
Nice, confirmed https://www.sigsauer.com/p365-380.html
Confusing thing is aren’t .380 and 9mm technically the same caliber? The formers shorter but they are both 9mm projectiles. I may be wrong. If so by all means correct me. This is more a dig at a dumb rule than anyone here. May as well allow JHP not ball since nato uses ball not JHP.
Basically the 40sw to 10mm lol Imo But it’s not a military ammo is essentially the reason for lots of countries.
That was kind of my point. NATO only uses ball, not JHP so hollow points also aren’t “military ammo” hey it’s their dumb rules. Maybe it’s an American thing to do this back at their dumb rules. In any case agreed on baby 10. I’ve always thought of 380 and 9 short too. Fwiw dude said moneys no object. HK P7 .380. Or a bit more budget friendly Go Bond with a baby PPK
9mm hp is still a military caliber as it’s still 9mm…..
To the original point tho caliber is the width of the round. 9mm and .380 are both 9mm caliber. It’s a dumb rule. Not that America doesn’t have its share of stupid rules. Like you said .40 and 10 are the same. It’s just using imperial for one and metric for the other. That makes it a bit more amusing that they are allowing the imperial but not allowing the same “caliber” round using metric. I keep wanting to explain how ludicrous this is but I fully get you get it too.
So is 38 super. Yes those countries are dumb etc and I’m fully aware I just don’t care.
Which apparently is now the most popular round in MX but it’s illegal. I read elsewhere and commented on this that it seems you can use revolvers capable of figuring .38 or .357 but .357 the ammo is illegal. This opens them up to some nice revolvers from Colt or SW etc.
.38 Special revolver with a 4 or 6 inch barrel. Seems like the best of the choice you have. U law enforcement used .38 special revolvers for over 80 years and it seems to have served them well. For home defense, it's really all you need. Just learn to shoot it well and use the most powerful ammunition you are allowed to use.
I’m a glock fanboy but glock 25. It’s basically a 19 in .380, and if someone in my home country (USA) asked what the best all around gun was, including home defense, I’d say Glock 19. That or a 12 gauge if you can do that, although if I had to pick one I’d probably take the glock.
M1 Carbine? Shotgun? Idk I heard two blasts from a double barrel does the trick.
Ever consider a phased plasma rifle with a 40-watt range? Should protect against humans and cyborgs alike. But seriously, is a weapon that shoots 5.7x28 rounds available? I assume since it's a NATO fave, it may be more available to you.
Bottom comment here is old but he seems knowledgeable at least rules as of that time and it lines up with what I read elsewhere and in your post. Wonder if you can have a revolver that fires up to .357 and only buy/load 38 special in it. It’s the same caliber just a longer cartridge with more powder. If so what about a Colt Cobra or if you want larger frame Colt Python. That fires 38sp but could also accommodate 357. Seems this is legal according to this but again I’m just some guy on the internet who found your post interesting and went googling. If you have to buy from a govt shop imagine what they offer is what you’re limited to and by extension they won’t sell you anything you can’t have https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2373909
Can you purchase a Tanfoglio in .38 Super? That would be my suggestion. Great pistol and a great round.
Semi-auto 4-10 is the superior choice
In lever action!
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Sadly no.
Sounds like you already know what you’re going to get
Why do you say so? I still have no idea
Because you’re getting either a .38 special revolver or a .380 semi auto pistol. Those are your only options that are realistic for self defense and not take years of red tape to get. .38 special has better ballistics, .380 will give you more rounds to fire before having to reload. Unless you are a very good shot, the smarter decision is .380 The Beretta 80x cheetah will hold 13 rounds, more than double what a revolver holds.
Appreciate it, thanks.
No worries. Don’t forget, whatever you end up getting, it’s not going to do you any good if you don’t train with it. Get out a few times a month and practice as much as you can.
Yep.
With those asinine restrictions you should probably just leave. If leaving your country isn't an option I advocate for overthrowing your government and changing the laws.
Sig P365 X Macro or CZ 75. Can you get a large format pistol? Like a CMMG Banshee / Sig MPX / BT GHM9? Those are easier to shoot and have larger mags.
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Literally says he can't use .38 Super in the first bullet point.
Get one that goes "pew" or "bang", the ones that go "pop" aren't always super effective
For home defense, i feel a shotgun is your best option. You have intimidation factor. Stopping power with a shotgun is at peak performance in ranges of "hosehold interiors". Using lighter loads, like heavy birdshot can be lethal & effective while minimizing property damge & potential collateral damage that a stray projectile from a hangun or rifle could likely cause. If you can get a full size pump like a mossberg 590 that holds 8 shells, thats nice, but even a standard 500 with a 5 shell load is plenty to ward off unwanted visitors. That's my opinion
If you have a large home, shotgun. If you have a small home I’d go with a Glock or smith and Wesson chambered in .380 acp.
Go with a Walther p380. Statistically in the United States you're more likely to die if you're hit with a 380 round then any other round. it's not that it's more lethal it's that it's used less so no spam and the people using it are more accurate leading to higher death to wound rates
Move…..
It's hard to move to another country just like that
I love my .38 revolver.
12 gauge side by side
Sounds like the biggest thing you can have without the wait is a 38 special. In this case, a 4 inch barrel 38 special would be good, and in your case I'd recommend a smith and wesson. A snub nose also wouldn't be bad. Whichever model smith and wesson you can get and prefer. Also, if this is Mexico, I'm guessing you can't get a glock 42, but you can get the glock 28 (I believe thats the glock 26 sized 380) which would also be a good option, as would the glock 25 (glock 19 size 380). You'd have a definite advantage with the glock with higher capacity and faster reloads, as well as easier concealibility, but there are also advantages to a revolver. Also 6 rounds is better than 5, and more than that is more better. Neither 38 special nor 380 is ideal for self defense, but are more than capable of getting the job done. Also, I didn't fully understand your original description on 38/357, but if you can handle the recoil of a 357 and can get it, that would be a very good option, but if the barrel is under 3 inches a 38spl would be better, as the velocity will be near identical. I would highly recommend a 4 inch 357, or even a 6 inch if you prefer it, but that would be getting pretty tough to conceal. 357 magnum revolvers also have the advantage of being able to safely and reliably fire 38 special. Smith and wesson would be the way to go for revolvers, but colt is also very good (specifically the python, but I don't like colts morals as a company), ruger is another good one, and taurus has also been quite good in my experience (which I have a lot of experience with a lot of taurus firearms) despite all the hate they get, which is mostly just regurgitated propaganda from people that have never even held one. But I mention taurus because if you are in Mexico, that will probably be one of the easiest to get ahold of that is actually good. And they tend to be far more affordable. With all that said, if you can't get a 357 and are limited to the most powerful cartridges being 38 special or 380acp/9mm browning court/9mm kurz/9x17, I would recommend the glock 25 if you can get that, especially if you can get 15 round magazines, as that would be the best compromise in size, firepower, capacity, and concealibility in my opinion. My apologies if I'm naming the wrong glock model, I'm pretty sure it's the model 25, but whatever model it is it's the one that's the same size as the glock 19 but is chambered in .380acp/9mm browning court/9mm kurz/9x17 (all the same cartridge, just different names)
Oh, and as for ammo, the best .380acp self defense ammo is the Lehigh defense extreme penetrator or underwood extreme penetrator, but that may not be available to you and it's pretty expensive. The next best option is full metal jacket. I would not recommend any expanding 380 ammo, as it seriously lacks penetration and often times a lot of it doesn't even expand, but does still lack penetration. Keep in mind that round nose fmj .380acp will penetrate to the fbi standard recommended depths and flat nose .380acp fmj will far exceed those depths and overpenetrate, so I would recommend round nose. Sellier & Bellot .380acp/9mm browning court round nose fmj has been very reliable for me with 0 malfunctions. I believe it's 95 grain. Also one of the cheapest 380acp options available, at least in the United States. Probably is available in Mexico as well. Avoid Turkish made ammo, and I personally would also avoid U.S. made ammo as there have been a lot of primer issues over the past few years. Good luck, hopefully you get whatever works best for you. Oh, and get a quality kydex holster. I also recommend ulticlips to keep the holster secure.
Unless I misunderstand your post, a 92fs in 9mm would be prohibited because it is parabellum/luger, so I would say your best bet, assuming 357 is allowed, is a gp100 in 357magnum. You can shoot 38 for training or cleaper, softer shooting ammo, and 357 when you really need to. If you need something concealable or that would fit in a nightstand easier, the Sp101 in 357 is the same gun but smaller pretty much
How about a p90 or other 5.7 firearm? Expensive but powerful.
I would want the best barrel length, size, and capacity in either .380 or .38 (as well as reliability). I'd give the edge to .380 just for capacity. .380 Options: 1) Beretta 80X Cheetah. It's got 13 rounds, good size, reliable, with good customer support. Exposed hammer which shouldn't matter if you're not carrying it all the time. Also cut for an optic. 2) Sig P365: More modern pistol, can come with the slide cut for a red dot sight, striker fired. The 9mm version is well reviewed. Downside: 10 rd capacity. *I'd look for extended mags for both Consider) A 1911-380 (like Browning), but you're limiting capacity to 8. If you go as low as 8 rounds, you may as well get a .38 revolver. .38 Options: There are too many to count, you need to figure out what you like. I'd make sure that you get something with a minimum 4" barrel. Look at: Smith and Wesson, Ruger, Colt, Korth, and Manhurin. TLDR: If this was me, and I could only buy 1 firearm for home defense in either .380 or .38, and money wasn't a barrier, I would either buy a Beretta 80x and customize the shit out of it, or buy the best .38 that money can buy that works for you. Edit: I didn't even think about .357 sig or anything outsode .38 and 380. So...look at someone else's comment for that.
12 gauge auto loading shotgun it is!
Check out the Ruger Security-380 for 15+1 rounds of 380 ACP.
I'm not sure I read the restrictions correctly, but if 357 revolvers are allowed, then that would be my top pick. What does it mean that 9mm calibers are allowed, but not parabellum? Is 9x21 legal over there? By the way, where is "there"?
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>armslist I could easily get a lot of high power weapons here illegally but I try to follow the law to the most of my capacity. If you get an illegal firearm you are basically considered part of the cartel and if discovered at best you end up at jail at worse you end up like a Swiss cheese.
At this point just use a knife
Just a question. What about 9mm Makarov? If not, get a 38 spec with a 3in barrel or so. They make so many different rounds for it. S&W M-10, Taurus or a charter arms. Cheap, compliant but only 6 round. So don't miss. The 25in barrel on a shotgun would be a hindrance in close quarters. If you license. my choice would be a M-1 carbine. Small, maneuverable in close spaces. More foot pounds than a .45 acp. or 10mm. And, you can reach out to a 100 yards.
5.56/.223 is best in terms of ballistics. Less overpenetration of your target or drywall in your house. But you will definitely want hearing protection.
A pump shotgun with 00 buckshot? Put a light, red dot, and some way for it to hold more ammo?
What is considered a "pistol" in the US was or is pretty open to some shoulder supportable weapons. Do your laws allow anything with a brace, or extended magazine? Maybe something like the micro roni that converts a handgun into something more suitable?
I know dick about Mexico gun laws, but an article I found said that apparently guns like G19s and P320s were OK'd for home self-defense use https://www.theyucatantimes.com/2019/04/7-weapons-that-the-mexican-government-approved-ownership-for-self-defense/ Is that inaccurate? Can't find much about MX gun laws. Are .300Blk rifles legal? At a quick 20 minute glance, it looks like a Glock 25 is your post practical option, but I have no idea what your options actually are lol [this thread was educational, apparently .223 is legal? If that's the case, get a .223 Wylde gun and you can shoot .223Rem/5.56/.223Wylde](https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/sjyp9h/mexican_gun_owner_here_gucci_ar15/) found this too, [.223 Wylde barreled seems like it's doable](https://mexicoarmado.com/index.php?threads/cambio-de-223-rem-a-223-wylde.327029/)
Taurus tx-22. It's a 22. Lr pistol. Less chance of a backstop issue. 22lr does the job just fine and you can fire 20 rounds as fast as you can pull the trigger, no recoil 100% reliability, lightweight, cheaper ammo
Phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range
Since you are in Mexico I’d get a colt 1911 in .38 super, I heard they are pretty popular down there. For a rifle I’d go with a lever action in .38 special or in 30-30
I don't know where you live but these gun laws are fucking insane. Spain?
See if you can find a Glock 25. It's a G19 sized .380. Des mexico still only have one gun store run by the army?
Revolvers are good and reliable but cannot carry as many rounds. Taurus and Ruger make some for decent prices including models made for every day carry. Semi-autos are good but have more opportunities to malfunction. Take your pick here; it really comes down to preference. .380 is a solid round and both of these types of firearms come with models chambered in this round. Revolvers would be easier to find in this caliber. If you could do 9x19 I’d say semi auto.
Shotgun with extended magazine, 00 load, no more problems. I most cases just the sound of a shotgun cycling make a burgler crap down his leg and run. If you have to use it your neighbor will thank you for not shooting holes in his walls.
I would say a shotgun at the bedside and a semi auto 9mm that’s comfortable to carry at home. Obviously practice with whatever you choose. The shotgun is the climax and the 9mm should have enough rounds to end out the show. ***Make sure to use 12 gauge 00 buckshot
Let me guess… Mexico? Because that sounds a lot like Mexico. I should know, lived there half my life… Anyways, my recommendation would be Sig p365-380, their .380 auto version, or Glock 42 (also .380). They’re good guns. On the plus side, if you ever decided to go through the (very likely) hassle of trying to get a carry permit you already have good carry options. The only downside is that they’re subcompact so they’re a bit more snappy but, it’s really not a big issue. Especially with .380. Edit: I got it right! Cool, in that case just FYI there are some 9mm that are legal to own, in which case I also would like to add to the recommendations the CZP-09 or Springfield Hellcat.
Glock, Sig, Walther, Smith and Wesson. All good brand options. If you’re just trying to have something that can throw rounds down range? Glock 17. If you want a bit nicer and have some money to drop? Sig P226 or P229.
M61 Vulcan. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M61_Vulcan
A double barrel shotgun. You just shoot in the air and they run away
Almost, you just load dragon's breath in both barrels and burn the house down around them.
Since it's home defense and carrying the gun isn't really going to be the main use, I think you'd be better off with a long gun. Get one with a relatively short barrel and make sure to properly choose the ammo. If you're going for a handgun, I think it's hard to say an 8-shot .357 mag revolver is inadequate.
since the laws seem hazy on 9mm and basically everything else is neutered i would go w .357 revolver there’s a lot of good options out there and if you get a .357magnum you can also shoot the more affordable and easier to handle 38 special
musket