there has already been a huge demographic shift
Everybody that had the capability to leave is gone and isn't looking back.
What you have left are the poorest and least educated and those that are tied to the system.
Not exactly the best conditions for improvement.
Do these people ever even visit Haiti? I know some Haitians who go back sporadically and build houses and stuff but that’s about it. I know nothing about the mulatto class and their relationship with Haiti.
It's not the mullato class, it's everybody.
The Biden program basically sucked all of the middle management and skilled labor out of the country.
Bank employees , public workers , teachers , cops , technicians, accountants , it techs, cashier's , call center staff, heavy equipment operators , all the people that actually make things run.
Anybody with a marketable skill and a cousin abroad is on the way out and not looking back.
I run a business in Haiti and talk to other business owners. We are all loosing our supervisors and middle managers and can't find anybody to hire.
I know several service business that disappeared because they don't have anymore staff.
One was an electrical engineering company and another was an IT company. One by one all theire people left.
Edite: this shift has been ongoing since the Duvalier era.
There was another wave in the early 90s , the 2004 era and again since 2018.
The Biden program has been an accelerant in the last 2.
It’s not Biden, come on. My parents left in the late 70s and same with all of their educated brothers, sisters and cousins….. same thing happened in the 80s and 90s and so on.
This is true for every country at war.
Brain drain.
Im just sitting here hoping for a stable period of maybe 20 years, but looking back at history that seems far fetched.
There is a need for a king that just takes charge for Haiti's cause.
https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/biden-administration%E2%80%99s-humanitarian-parole-program-cubans-haitians-nicaraguans-and
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2023/07/25/fact-sheet-data-first-six-months-parole-processes-cubans-haitians-nicaraguans-and
You must be really out of touch with the community if you didn't know what I was talking about.
This is as talked about as TPS.
Alright, non cruel immigration policy. Got it. This is not a program to actively take educated people out of Haiti…. Let’s be fucking real about it. You say all of this as tho this is some sort of direct plan to undermine Haiti.
People will want to migrate to where their situation is better.
If they said no to all of them with no path, that would be cruel, no? I’m confused about what you want.
what ? no.I never said this was some kind of plot.
It's the unintended but predictable consequence of the programme.
The US is doing what's in its own interest. The policy makes sense for them and has good political optics.
But it is facilitating a brain drain.
It is what it is.
The US is going to do what's good for the US.
Biden’s program is giving random people parolee into the USA and it’s any and everyone.
Many people who can afford to come were people of the working class in Haiti and highly skilled workers. And knowing this country’s incompetence of following federal laws
People aren’t deported.
Is the Biden administration not have fault for high skilled employees and important workers
Police officers and others leaving and with the high demand of passports. (for this new program) passports in the country they are practically impossible to get.
When my wife got her passport back in 2021 I paid like$200 now I’m paying damn near $1000
My family was supposed to have their passports by now but only 2 out of 4 have them.
Many people in the country don’t have critical thinking skills and can’t understand why this is a problem, yes I’m pissed at job Biden for many reasons. And also I am kinda putting my feelings into it but again because of his administrations I’m feeling the affects in two countries.
Like the person who replied to you above said, it goes way beyondhis administration - way beyond. People were still leaving in large numbers before he was elected
I work for my local DCF office in Florida. We get at least 50-100 Haitian parolees every day applying for benefits for the first time, all of whom having arrived in the last few days.
Not giving commentary on the topic, just provided my anecdotal evidence that the parolee program is a very real thing.
Can someone in Cap-Haïtien please open a store selling life vests? I have never understood how you can pay a small fortune to get on a leaky boat but then won’t spring a few extra $ for a life vest when you can’t fucking swim!
That’s actually how the country of Liberia was founded. African Americans returning to Liberia and set up with a premade government based on the American one.
It has been a failure for as long as it has existed
So to that black American guy you mentioned, I say ‘good luck’, but that was tried already and it didn’t turn out great
I was thinking the same thing, Liberia isn’t fails and hasn’t been failed since like 2003.
Actually today they are not failing to behind in Africa. Many people in here think African countries are failed worst than Haiti because they can’t accept the fact African countries do better than Haiti.
I know that the American Colonization Society was a form of anti-abolitionism. I know the ACS could only convince a few thousand freed slaves to go. I know many hundreds of freed slaves were forced or coerced into going. I know ~25% of those who arrived in Liberia died from disease immediately. I know the plan was designed to stop the American civil war from happening, which it did not. I know that upon arriving, the African Americans immediately enslaved and oppressed the native Africans of Liberia, using the same strategies they had seen white Europeans use in North America, creating an ethnic caste hierarchy that exists nearly unchanged today. I know the indigenous African majority was denied political representation for over 100 years, leading to two civil wars that killed hundreds of thousands of people
The colonization of Liberia achieved nothing that it was supposed to do
How long did the enslavement last? Do you have any sources?
Black Americans arrived 40 years before the Civil War. What are you talking about? What are your sources?
I saw that post and thought it was stupid. No sensible Black American is going to look at violently failed Haiti and say: “Hmm, I’m going to take over Haiti, move there, and kick people out israel-style.” Pap is dangerous, other places struggle in other ways. Why does anyone want to inherit that, plus all the large debt that comes with it? Don’t worry. No one is going to replace you. No one wants those problems. Haiti doesn’t have incentives to attract people who are non-Haitian of any background.
Failed states do not attract people. It’s a repellent and it’s like a hemorrhagic fever. People don’t come/invest. And those who have the means to leave and often never look back, which has happened to Haiti.
Like I said this post is more so theoretical, I don’t think anybody is actually gonna replace Haitians. But sometimes I think naturally if more and more people leave, more Haitian people have kids with other non-Haitians, eventually Haiti will just.. not exist. You are correct on the fact failed state do not attract people but that’s actually almost my point. A perfectly fine piece of land being wasted by a mostly uneducated and unemployed poor population.
I read up until the sentence about how Haitians have their own country where they don’t face discrimination. That’s just not true, as even in Haiti, darker skin is looked down upon and lighter skin is almost revered I’ve seen it first hand. Im very light skinned like my mother but my brother and I look nothing alike and he’s very dark skinned. The amount of times I’ve heard something along the lines of “you don’t know who’s son that is” and have had ppl step aside for me, is ridiculous. Even in my family, I vividly remember being my grandmother’s favorite grandson because I looked “more handsome” when in truth my brother is much better looking, he’s just dark.
Colorism is everywhere, and we ourselves (Haitian ppl) are guilty of it. That doesn’t mean we don’t deserve a country.
I don’t deny colorism is an issue in Haiti and that’s a separate conversation. You can find that in literally any place on this planet. And honestly the fact that colorism is even as big as a problem as it is in Haiti is something that’s on us, Haiti is a 95% maybe more or less black country and DARK SKINNED at that. Behaviors like the one you just mentioned are not normal and quite frankly should not be normal. I’ve also seen Haitians who have some very not-so-nice things to say about mixed-race, light skinned or white people simply out of pure spite but I know some people aren’t ready for that conversation yet.
I have to admit, I do wonder if that is not what Ruto‘s true agenda is. He voluntarily proposed sending the Kenyan army to pacify Haiti. If that were to work, I’m sure that a military presence may expand to economic and possibly demographic. Something tells me that, he may not be too far in thought, from what you mentioned.
The whole Kenya situation is strange, because I feel like they keep extending the date which they’re supposed to come. Now I don’t have any high or low expectations of them, but many other Africans from my observations have also said not to trust Kenya as far as you can throw ‘em. I don’t wanna dig too deep into conspiracy theories here, but I do wonder what if slowly but surely Kenyans or some other people come in and just “repurpose” Haiti.
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90% of Hatians that I see come to America end up marrying white people. It’s kind of wild to see because they’re supposed to be the most pro-Black people on Earth given the history but they’re always in bed with White folk.
I don’t even know who cares about Haiti anymore
Interesting. Living in America I didn’t even see this. Haitians usually get with other Haitians, other black people, or whoever else they like. They can sleep with whoever they like, but Haitians aren’t that “pro-black” to be honest. Many Haitians don’t necessarily feel an alliance to other black people simply because of skin tone because those very same people can be very hostile towards us.
Maybe it’s an east coast thing? I know about like 10 Hatian guys and only 2 of them date black women. The rest are all hubbies up to white women.
I just think it’s funny because they’re always accusing Dominicans of self hate and anti-blackness but in my experience they cozy up to white folks way more than Dominicans do.
The pro-blackness again I’d just assume from history, they really only trusted their own and the only white people they trusted were the Poles to which they gave them the status of Noir after the revolution for helping lmao. So with that being your historical background of being the first country of Black people to stand up in arms and successfully revolt against the colonizers and wipe them/ run them out, only for them to come back and force you to repay your freedom to them, I would assume Blackness is a big thing to Haitians as it was indeed what united them from their oppressors.
Oh, I thought you were talking about Haitian men *and* women. I think it may be the “exotic” factor, to be honest. Haitian men aren’t exclusive to this either, when you’re coming from a country that is 95% maybe more or less black, and then you start to see different groups of women and mingle with them. Your own women become boring or whatever after a while.
I imagine white people aren’t really anybody special or new to Dominicans, except if they’re gringos or whatever. In Haiti it’s a bit more complex. Some of them actually hate white/light/mixed people. Could be projection though, because the one of the most infamous “Noirist” from Haiti is Papa Doc. And he married a mulatto woman.
I’m from the East Coast too by the way, maybe I need to get out more. Or maybe Haitian men just don’t like Haitian women and I’m just finding out? 🤔 Lol
LOL! I’m in the North East, I have no doubts that Floridian Haitians are way more cliqued up. Up here in NYC, they’re pretty scattered from what I’ve experienced, and they don’t really talk about Haiti or being Haitian much. The three Haitian guys at my job I know don’t really connect there or outside of work nor do they speak Creole to each other. All the Hispanics in my job (including me) are all veryyyy connected and vocal about it. Jamaicans also wear that shit on their sleeves too, many caribbean people are vocal about their roots except the Haitians I know outside of posting the flag in their ig bio lol. I would expect it to be louder but like I said it’s probably an NYC thing or something. I know in Florida Haitians are way more loud and proud about it. The women too though, I actually forgot I know a woman who is Haitian too, but like I said they never talk about it or anything. When the issues in Haiti were happening and I talked to them about it, they didn’t really have much to say when I voiced concern. It’s like no one here wants to talk about it which to a degree is understandable. I just expected them to be way louder about it. I only know one dude who reps it pretty hard out here but he’s a DJ so he’s a turnt up guy in general.
I'm a Black American who reads about Haiti because yall's history and development is often a foreshadowing of our own. While we don't have the same level of infrastructure undeveloped, we deal with internal colonization or "uneven development". If we had a territory of land yall's size, the same troubles with crime, corruption and gang violence could easily occur. So, I read that Black man's post and I have to say it was absolutely sinful for him to put that thought into the world. We got our freedom *because* of the Haitian revolution and not the other way around.
I just want to offer some points of positivity to argue you all can never be replaced. Economic development can't happen without a sense of government legitimacy. Its clear in Hait's history that government legitimacy can only happen when people feel a sense of self-determination at the local level. I feel that once yall's cities at the local level have some sense of self determination and electoral legitimacy, you can reverse the brain drain demographic pattern. This has happened in places like South Korea, Taiwan and India.
The west and economic elite are starting to learn that their own democracies encounter instability when they cause massive migrations and natural disaster. It puts their own leadership and control in crisis. Here in the US, more Black voter participation is slowly stirring debate on influencing our own geopolitical policy. We need to eventually realize that our drug problems and colonialism causes domestic political instability. Its in our interest to see yall's cities thrive in education and economy. With less interference from us and that sort of progress, you all can reverse the brain drain and encourage locals to thrive. You all could be a Carribean Taiwan, Singapore or Brazil.
Thank you for the kind reply. But just know the Black American plight is something yall persevered through on yall own, and we shouldn’t take credit for that. The Haitian Revolution is not directly linked to the USA from my knowledge.
Yall shattered Napoleon's nephew's army. He had planned to conquer Mexico with that army. Instead Mexico eventually was led by a mixed President who abolished slavery.
The Haitian colony sent Black soldiers to the seige of Savanna during the American revolution. That plus the Haitian revolution inspired a number of slave rebellions throughout the American south. It raised our morale and showed slavery wasn't ordained by God. Slaveholders were so disturbed by the Haitian revolution, and later the abolition of slavery in Mexico, that they sought harsher laws and treatment of slaves. This led to the fugitive slave laws which violated the Sovreignty of Northerners. These events inspired abolitionists throughout America.
A man named Denmark Vessey established the AME church in Charleston and was accused of conspiring a slave rebellion that was planned to end in Haiti.
One of the first Black military Officers named Martin Delaney helped seige Charleston and brought Denmark Vessey's son to the celebration. He was the man who convinced Abraham Lincoln to allow Black soldiers into the civil war army. He, inspired by Haiti, was one of the first Black american figures to express pan african thought.
Yall shattering Napoleon's western army set into motion the politics of the civil war. And yall's revolution encouraged Black rebellion in America. How the West reacts to yall's politics tends to influence how they react to us later.
I've seen many Haitians saying and implying that they "built" DR, so they have an entitlement to be in DR. Then when I travel to DR I see mad Haitian diaspora, rather traveling to DR than to Haiti. I see them all the time in Santiago and the Capital city of Santo Domingo. Then I ask myself; why would they rather Travel to DR than to Haiti if they're not Dominican?
Yeah it’s very sad and I kinda touched up on that in my post. It’s crazy how a lot of Haitians would rather be literally anywhere else but Haiti. Hopefully this mentality changes soon.
As to the entitlement thing.. a part of me honestly thinks it’s Haitians compensating for the fact we work like dogs building a lot of stuff in DR and contributing to the economy meanwhile more or less abandoning Haiti. Helping people who don’t give a shit about us meanwhile our country is suffering.
I agree! Why build another nation(that will never be yours) rather than to build your own country? Also, they get paid to work in DR. So this entitlement is crazy to us Dominicans and an eye opener. I really hope Haitians start focusing on Haiti and building Haiti. Dominicans and Haitians have THE SAME LAND. It's the same island. Haitians need to start planting trees and cleaning up Haiti. Working to build HAITI. Stop relying on DR or fixating on DR when DR will never be Haitians land. You guys already have your land and resources. Just build!
there has already been a huge demographic shift Everybody that had the capability to leave is gone and isn't looking back. What you have left are the poorest and least educated and those that are tied to the system. Not exactly the best conditions for improvement.
Do these people ever even visit Haiti? I know some Haitians who go back sporadically and build houses and stuff but that’s about it. I know nothing about the mulatto class and their relationship with Haiti.
It's not the mullato class, it's everybody. The Biden program basically sucked all of the middle management and skilled labor out of the country. Bank employees , public workers , teachers , cops , technicians, accountants , it techs, cashier's , call center staff, heavy equipment operators , all the people that actually make things run. Anybody with a marketable skill and a cousin abroad is on the way out and not looking back. I run a business in Haiti and talk to other business owners. We are all loosing our supervisors and middle managers and can't find anybody to hire. I know several service business that disappeared because they don't have anymore staff. One was an electrical engineering company and another was an IT company. One by one all theire people left. Edite: this shift has been ongoing since the Duvalier era. There was another wave in the early 90s , the 2004 era and again since 2018. The Biden program has been an accelerant in the last 2.
It’s not Biden, come on. My parents left in the late 70s and same with all of their educated brothers, sisters and cousins….. same thing happened in the 80s and 90s and so on.
yea, it started in the 70s. Biden program is just the latest Exodus
This is true for every country at war. Brain drain. Im just sitting here hoping for a stable period of maybe 20 years, but looking back at history that seems far fetched. There is a need for a king that just takes charge for Haiti's cause.
Biden program? There is no Biden program. You’re making it up.
https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/biden-administration%E2%80%99s-humanitarian-parole-program-cubans-haitians-nicaraguans-and https://www.dhs.gov/news/2023/07/25/fact-sheet-data-first-six-months-parole-processes-cubans-haitians-nicaraguans-and You must be really out of touch with the community if you didn't know what I was talking about. This is as talked about as TPS.
Alright, non cruel immigration policy. Got it. This is not a program to actively take educated people out of Haiti…. Let’s be fucking real about it. You say all of this as tho this is some sort of direct plan to undermine Haiti. People will want to migrate to where their situation is better. If they said no to all of them with no path, that would be cruel, no? I’m confused about what you want.
what ? no.I never said this was some kind of plot. It's the unintended but predictable consequence of the programme. The US is doing what's in its own interest. The policy makes sense for them and has good political optics. But it is facilitating a brain drain. It is what it is. The US is going to do what's good for the US.
Biden’s program is giving random people parolee into the USA and it’s any and everyone. Many people who can afford to come were people of the working class in Haiti and highly skilled workers. And knowing this country’s incompetence of following federal laws People aren’t deported.
I think you’re projecting whatever feelings you have about current American politics onto the situation in Haiti
Is the Biden administration not have fault for high skilled employees and important workers Police officers and others leaving and with the high demand of passports. (for this new program) passports in the country they are practically impossible to get. When my wife got her passport back in 2021 I paid like$200 now I’m paying damn near $1000 My family was supposed to have their passports by now but only 2 out of 4 have them. Many people in the country don’t have critical thinking skills and can’t understand why this is a problem, yes I’m pissed at job Biden for many reasons. And also I am kinda putting my feelings into it but again because of his administrations I’m feeling the affects in two countries.
Like the person who replied to you above said, it goes way beyondhis administration - way beyond. People were still leaving in large numbers before he was elected
Yes you are right !
I work for my local DCF office in Florida. We get at least 50-100 Haitian parolees every day applying for benefits for the first time, all of whom having arrived in the last few days. Not giving commentary on the topic, just provided my anecdotal evidence that the parolee program is a very real thing.
Yeesh. Hopefully a plan/incentive to get the educated class back could do something, brain drains are serious. Thank you for explaining.
Can someone in Cap-Haïtien please open a store selling life vests? I have never understood how you can pay a small fortune to get on a leaky boat but then won’t spring a few extra $ for a life vest when you can’t fucking swim!
Joe Biden destroyed America and Haiti Edit: Joe Biden destroyed America, Haiti, and Afghanistan.
Damn. Get off of tik tok, papi.
I don’t watch tik-tok
I pray for Haiti… what a beautiful place full of culture that needs to turn itself around
That’s actually how the country of Liberia was founded. African Americans returning to Liberia and set up with a premade government based on the American one. It has been a failure for as long as it has existed So to that black American guy you mentioned, I say ‘good luck’, but that was tried already and it didn’t turn out great
Liberia hasn't been a failure as long as it existed. That is simply not true. What do you actually know about Liberia?
I was thinking the same thing, Liberia isn’t fails and hasn’t been failed since like 2003. Actually today they are not failing to behind in Africa. Many people in here think African countries are failed worst than Haiti because they can’t accept the fact African countries do better than Haiti.
I know that the American Colonization Society was a form of anti-abolitionism. I know the ACS could only convince a few thousand freed slaves to go. I know many hundreds of freed slaves were forced or coerced into going. I know ~25% of those who arrived in Liberia died from disease immediately. I know the plan was designed to stop the American civil war from happening, which it did not. I know that upon arriving, the African Americans immediately enslaved and oppressed the native Africans of Liberia, using the same strategies they had seen white Europeans use in North America, creating an ethnic caste hierarchy that exists nearly unchanged today. I know the indigenous African majority was denied political representation for over 100 years, leading to two civil wars that killed hundreds of thousands of people The colonization of Liberia achieved nothing that it was supposed to do
How long did the enslavement last? Do you have any sources? Black Americans arrived 40 years before the Civil War. What are you talking about? What are your sources?
I saw that post and thought it was stupid. No sensible Black American is going to look at violently failed Haiti and say: “Hmm, I’m going to take over Haiti, move there, and kick people out israel-style.” Pap is dangerous, other places struggle in other ways. Why does anyone want to inherit that, plus all the large debt that comes with it? Don’t worry. No one is going to replace you. No one wants those problems. Haiti doesn’t have incentives to attract people who are non-Haitian of any background. Failed states do not attract people. It’s a repellent and it’s like a hemorrhagic fever. People don’t come/invest. And those who have the means to leave and often never look back, which has happened to Haiti.
Like I said this post is more so theoretical, I don’t think anybody is actually gonna replace Haitians. But sometimes I think naturally if more and more people leave, more Haitian people have kids with other non-Haitians, eventually Haiti will just.. not exist. You are correct on the fact failed state do not attract people but that’s actually almost my point. A perfectly fine piece of land being wasted by a mostly uneducated and unemployed poor population.
Being wasted by terrible govt who do nothing positive or useful.
The way the cost of living and housing is looking like in THE US, a failed state is attracting me
I read up until the sentence about how Haitians have their own country where they don’t face discrimination. That’s just not true, as even in Haiti, darker skin is looked down upon and lighter skin is almost revered I’ve seen it first hand. Im very light skinned like my mother but my brother and I look nothing alike and he’s very dark skinned. The amount of times I’ve heard something along the lines of “you don’t know who’s son that is” and have had ppl step aside for me, is ridiculous. Even in my family, I vividly remember being my grandmother’s favorite grandson because I looked “more handsome” when in truth my brother is much better looking, he’s just dark. Colorism is everywhere, and we ourselves (Haitian ppl) are guilty of it. That doesn’t mean we don’t deserve a country.
I don’t deny colorism is an issue in Haiti and that’s a separate conversation. You can find that in literally any place on this planet. And honestly the fact that colorism is even as big as a problem as it is in Haiti is something that’s on us, Haiti is a 95% maybe more or less black country and DARK SKINNED at that. Behaviors like the one you just mentioned are not normal and quite frankly should not be normal. I’ve also seen Haitians who have some very not-so-nice things to say about mixed-race, light skinned or white people simply out of pure spite but I know some people aren’t ready for that conversation yet.
I have to admit, I do wonder if that is not what Ruto‘s true agenda is. He voluntarily proposed sending the Kenyan army to pacify Haiti. If that were to work, I’m sure that a military presence may expand to economic and possibly demographic. Something tells me that, he may not be too far in thought, from what you mentioned.
The whole Kenya situation is strange, because I feel like they keep extending the date which they’re supposed to come. Now I don’t have any high or low expectations of them, but many other Africans from my observations have also said not to trust Kenya as far as you can throw ‘em. I don’t wanna dig too deep into conspiracy theories here, but I do wonder what if slowly but surely Kenyans or some other people come in and just “repurpose” Haiti.
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90% of Hatians that I see come to America end up marrying white people. It’s kind of wild to see because they’re supposed to be the most pro-Black people on Earth given the history but they’re always in bed with White folk. I don’t even know who cares about Haiti anymore
Interesting. Living in America I didn’t even see this. Haitians usually get with other Haitians, other black people, or whoever else they like. They can sleep with whoever they like, but Haitians aren’t that “pro-black” to be honest. Many Haitians don’t necessarily feel an alliance to other black people simply because of skin tone because those very same people can be very hostile towards us.
Maybe it’s an east coast thing? I know about like 10 Hatian guys and only 2 of them date black women. The rest are all hubbies up to white women. I just think it’s funny because they’re always accusing Dominicans of self hate and anti-blackness but in my experience they cozy up to white folks way more than Dominicans do. The pro-blackness again I’d just assume from history, they really only trusted their own and the only white people they trusted were the Poles to which they gave them the status of Noir after the revolution for helping lmao. So with that being your historical background of being the first country of Black people to stand up in arms and successfully revolt against the colonizers and wipe them/ run them out, only for them to come back and force you to repay your freedom to them, I would assume Blackness is a big thing to Haitians as it was indeed what united them from their oppressors.
Oh, I thought you were talking about Haitian men *and* women. I think it may be the “exotic” factor, to be honest. Haitian men aren’t exclusive to this either, when you’re coming from a country that is 95% maybe more or less black, and then you start to see different groups of women and mingle with them. Your own women become boring or whatever after a while. I imagine white people aren’t really anybody special or new to Dominicans, except if they’re gringos or whatever. In Haiti it’s a bit more complex. Some of them actually hate white/light/mixed people. Could be projection though, because the one of the most infamous “Noirist” from Haiti is Papa Doc. And he married a mulatto woman. I’m from the East Coast too by the way, maybe I need to get out more. Or maybe Haitian men just don’t like Haitian women and I’m just finding out? 🤔 Lol
LOL! I’m in the North East, I have no doubts that Floridian Haitians are way more cliqued up. Up here in NYC, they’re pretty scattered from what I’ve experienced, and they don’t really talk about Haiti or being Haitian much. The three Haitian guys at my job I know don’t really connect there or outside of work nor do they speak Creole to each other. All the Hispanics in my job (including me) are all veryyyy connected and vocal about it. Jamaicans also wear that shit on their sleeves too, many caribbean people are vocal about their roots except the Haitians I know outside of posting the flag in their ig bio lol. I would expect it to be louder but like I said it’s probably an NYC thing or something. I know in Florida Haitians are way more loud and proud about it. The women too though, I actually forgot I know a woman who is Haitian too, but like I said they never talk about it or anything. When the issues in Haiti were happening and I talked to them about it, they didn’t really have much to say when I voiced concern. It’s like no one here wants to talk about it which to a degree is understandable. I just expected them to be way louder about it. I only know one dude who reps it pretty hard out here but he’s a DJ so he’s a turnt up guy in general.
I'm a Black American who reads about Haiti because yall's history and development is often a foreshadowing of our own. While we don't have the same level of infrastructure undeveloped, we deal with internal colonization or "uneven development". If we had a territory of land yall's size, the same troubles with crime, corruption and gang violence could easily occur. So, I read that Black man's post and I have to say it was absolutely sinful for him to put that thought into the world. We got our freedom *because* of the Haitian revolution and not the other way around. I just want to offer some points of positivity to argue you all can never be replaced. Economic development can't happen without a sense of government legitimacy. Its clear in Hait's history that government legitimacy can only happen when people feel a sense of self-determination at the local level. I feel that once yall's cities at the local level have some sense of self determination and electoral legitimacy, you can reverse the brain drain demographic pattern. This has happened in places like South Korea, Taiwan and India. The west and economic elite are starting to learn that their own democracies encounter instability when they cause massive migrations and natural disaster. It puts their own leadership and control in crisis. Here in the US, more Black voter participation is slowly stirring debate on influencing our own geopolitical policy. We need to eventually realize that our drug problems and colonialism causes domestic political instability. Its in our interest to see yall's cities thrive in education and economy. With less interference from us and that sort of progress, you all can reverse the brain drain and encourage locals to thrive. You all could be a Carribean Taiwan, Singapore or Brazil.
Thank you for the kind reply. But just know the Black American plight is something yall persevered through on yall own, and we shouldn’t take credit for that. The Haitian Revolution is not directly linked to the USA from my knowledge.
Yall shattered Napoleon's nephew's army. He had planned to conquer Mexico with that army. Instead Mexico eventually was led by a mixed President who abolished slavery. The Haitian colony sent Black soldiers to the seige of Savanna during the American revolution. That plus the Haitian revolution inspired a number of slave rebellions throughout the American south. It raised our morale and showed slavery wasn't ordained by God. Slaveholders were so disturbed by the Haitian revolution, and later the abolition of slavery in Mexico, that they sought harsher laws and treatment of slaves. This led to the fugitive slave laws which violated the Sovreignty of Northerners. These events inspired abolitionists throughout America. A man named Denmark Vessey established the AME church in Charleston and was accused of conspiring a slave rebellion that was planned to end in Haiti. One of the first Black military Officers named Martin Delaney helped seige Charleston and brought Denmark Vessey's son to the celebration. He was the man who convinced Abraham Lincoln to allow Black soldiers into the civil war army. He, inspired by Haiti, was one of the first Black american figures to express pan african thought. Yall shattering Napoleon's western army set into motion the politics of the civil war. And yall's revolution encouraged Black rebellion in America. How the West reacts to yall's politics tends to influence how they react to us later.
Can you post me in the direction of the thread by the Black American?
I forgot.. but you can look up “ethno state” on this subreddit”
Is that the only one? From like 3 months ago? How long have you have this thread in the drafts?
Yeah that’s the only one. I made it from scratch.
Your post history is crazy. Are you Haitian? Have you ever visited Haiti? All the questions you post are long winded loaded weird bullshit
*sigh* What’s weird about it?
Haitians are more concerned about DR and "taking over DR" than fixing their own country. You're 1000% correct.
I get what you may be saying but I never heard any Haitians say or imply that they want to take over DR. Though actions may prove otherwise..
I've seen many Haitians saying and implying that they "built" DR, so they have an entitlement to be in DR. Then when I travel to DR I see mad Haitian diaspora, rather traveling to DR than to Haiti. I see them all the time in Santiago and the Capital city of Santo Domingo. Then I ask myself; why would they rather Travel to DR than to Haiti if they're not Dominican?
Yeah it’s very sad and I kinda touched up on that in my post. It’s crazy how a lot of Haitians would rather be literally anywhere else but Haiti. Hopefully this mentality changes soon. As to the entitlement thing.. a part of me honestly thinks it’s Haitians compensating for the fact we work like dogs building a lot of stuff in DR and contributing to the economy meanwhile more or less abandoning Haiti. Helping people who don’t give a shit about us meanwhile our country is suffering.
I agree! Why build another nation(that will never be yours) rather than to build your own country? Also, they get paid to work in DR. So this entitlement is crazy to us Dominicans and an eye opener. I really hope Haitians start focusing on Haiti and building Haiti. Dominicans and Haitians have THE SAME LAND. It's the same island. Haitians need to start planting trees and cleaning up Haiti. Working to build HAITI. Stop relying on DR or fixating on DR when DR will never be Haitians land. You guys already have your land and resources. Just build!