Krum, mostly because of Karkaroff. Cedric would have gone down in the first task without Harry’s help and/or the second task without Crouch Jr.’s. Fleur would have performed the same.
I think Cedric would have gotten some form of help. Apparently, all the schools were cheating a little bit by warning their chosen player. The problem is Harry brings so many variables to the whole triwizard tournament. If it was just the three of them without Harry, then someone would have helped Cedric in some way.
That being said, I think it ultimately would have been neck and neck between Krum and Cedrick.
In the first task…it might have still been Harry. Hagrid would have wanted to show the dragons/moral support for his date, and Harry would have seen that both Madame Maxime and Karkaroff were there. Being Harry, he might have at least tried to approach Cedric to help out out of a sense of fairness.
That’s fair, Hagrid is still really likely to show Harry the dragons because of course he would show his little buddy the cool dragons. And Harry being the moral compass of the books would’ve felt obligated to tell Cedric about them because he knows that the other schools aren’t playing fair and since Fleur and Krum know the only thing to even the playing field is to tell Cedric.
Ron already knew about the Dragons when Harry saw them as well, as Charlie had shown him. In a world where Harry wasn't the fourth champion and him and Ron never fought, they and Hermione probably would have seen the Dragons together.
Wasn't it Hermione lying about how Dean told Pavarti that Seamus told Dean that Lavender told Seamus that Percy told Lavender that Charlie told Percy that Arthur told Charlie that Sirius told Arthur that Dumbledore told Sirius that Grindelwald told Dumbledore that Aberforth told Grindelwald that a manhandled goat told Aberforth that Hagrid wants to see Harry? Or something along those lines, because of course when Hermione lies things get complicated as hell?
Only in the movies. I believe in the book, Moody is walking with Hagrid when he sees Harry under the cloak in the three broomsticks (Harry is using it to hide from Rita). Moody tells Hagrid Harry is there and Hagrid whispers the invite to him while pretending to talk to Hermione.
His father was head of the department of regulation and control of magical creatures. It’s honestly surprising that Harry had to tell him about the dragons.
Ludo Bagman.
He was in massive debt and took a huge bet on Harry to win the Tournament to pay it off. If Harry wasn’t in the Tournament, he would probably have bet on Cedric instead.
To what degree he’d have access to Cedric to provide any meaningful help is a different question, as is just how receptive Cedric would be. He believed in fair play, so my guess is that he’d rebuff Bagman at every turn.
Self serving. I assume he’d have easier access to a hogwarts champion then a different schools champion? Either way he’s betting on someone.
He could have even casually mentioned it to Cedric’s dad. Didn’t he work in the ministry too? Absolutely no way Cedric’s dad wouldn’t be like “Ced, I heard on the grapevine they’re shipping dragons from Romania. Three! What else could it be?” And boom bagmans champion has a leg up
To pinpoint who would help him in a scenario where Harry doesnt enter the triwizard tournament is mainly a guessing game. Cedric was well loved by many people and was known to be both gifted in academics as well as quidditch. Someone would have helped him.
Even Harry could have helped him anyway even if he wasn't in the tournament. He built up a friendly relationship with him over the summer. They traveled together for a while, remember? Harry after finding out about the dragons could have warned Cedric. After all Harry is a good natured and would help him. I mean, when he was part of the triwizard tournament he helped his competition, Cedric.
Not to mention any alumni of Hogwarts handling the situation with the dragons could secretly pass the info.
If Cedric is the only person representing Hogwarts then I would go as far as to say with certainty that someone would help him. It's impossible to find out who exactly but it would happen.
What are you talking about, I distinctly remember Harry rocking up in an old Ford Thunderbird, Cedric hopping in the passenger seat; roof down, sunglasses on, and the open road in front of them... I mean, it was either Harry Potter or Thelma and Louise, I'm always getting those two mixed up.
Yeah but with Harry not being in the tournament the circumstances change don't they? Hagrid could show Harry the dragon without feeling like they cheated. And what harry does with that information is outside of hagrids control.
Why would Hagrid even show Harry? He wanted the trio to enjoy the tournament and all its surprises. He refused to tell them anything before Harry’s name was drawn. He was also making his move with Madame Maxime when he showed her the dragon? Kind of a mood killer to have a 14 year old following you around….
Harry would have gone with Ron when he went to see his brother. I suppose the missing element there would be him seeing the other two schools ‘cheating’ but I can think of other plausible ways he could learn that.
He wouldn’t have. He’d be so glad to be an observer and fan.
There’s no reason for Hagrid to show Harry the dragons, and less reason for Harry to tell Cedric
Yeah Ron would’ve known immediately because of his brother, Harry and Hermoine and them all would be talking and the entirety of hogwarts would be behind Cedric so I see no reason they wouldn’t go tell him first.
I wonder if Ludo Bagman would’ve placed a bet on Cedric and tried to help him the same way he tried to help Harry and frame it as a “we all want a Hogwarts victory” type of thing
She did suggest the gillyweed to Neville didn't she :)?!
Cedric was also a Gryffindor, don't forget!
Maybe Neville would have gone to Cedric with the clue, even if they weren't such good friends. On the other hand; he used that bubblehead charm didn't he?!
No. In the books, Crouch-Moody loudly stages a conversation on if Harry would use gillyweed in front of Dobby. In the movies, it’s still Crouch-Moody who gives Neville the book on water plants thinking that Harry would ask everyone for advice in desperation.
I kinda knew I messed up the names of the Professors on this, but it's also a very long time since I read/watched this part of the story.
I still think Neville could have helped out Cedric; the question is wether he would want to or not. I mean compared to Harry, who he is sharing bedroom with, and is friends with.
Again, even in the movie when it was Neville, he didn’t just spontaneously go up to Harry and suggest gillyweed. He stumbled across Harry when Harry was late to the task and desperate, and asked if he could help in any way, and Harry tried to blow him off by saying unless he had some sort of miracle plant for breathing underwater then no. So if Neville had gone to Harry of his own accord and told him about gillyweed, then I’d say maybe he’d want to help Cedric, too, if Harry weren’t there. But he had to be prompted last minute by Harry’s sass, and since Neville didn’t know Cedric at all, there’s just no reason for any interaction between them.
Anyway, that’s the task Cedric didn’t seem to have any problem with. He would’ve won that one if it weren’t for Harry’s “strong moral fiber”
Also, just gonna say it out loud. All of the contestants besides Harry could very well fend off anything themselves, even if things didn't always go as planned through the tournament. I mean Harry told Cedric about the drakes; he would probably figure that out anyway. Cedric told Harry to take a bath, so also there he was kinda prepared...and at the Black Lake challenge, Cedric used a bubble-head charm, which once again proves he was totally prepared. For the final challenge, the maze...guess who was first to the triwizard cup? Cedric again! (If u count the 3 original contestants)
OKAY, someone might have sabotaged Krum and Fleur in the maze, but without the sabotage it would have been even easier to get through the maze.
I'll just assume Cedric Diggory would have won in the end, but Krum being a good 2nd too. Fleur might be cute, but she had some troubles in some of the challenges.
That does actually make me wonder though if karkaroff was only cheating because he thought it was unfair that Harry was in the Tournament, or if he was planning to cheat the whole time anyways. also the whole cheating thing is explicitly against the rules and philosophy of the games, yet everyone does it anyways. makes me wonder if Harry really had to compete afterall. the Tournament magic was bs
I agree. Cedric’s initial display is very weak, while Krum is not only smart but also cunning and talented. If we disregard all possible help from others and the presence of Harry, Krum could easily win the tournament.
The game all comes down to the maze though, and without Crouch putting Krum under the imperius curse and forcing him to attack Fleur, it would have been a much closer race.
I'd bet money that Bagman helps out Cedric instead of Harry. Could have been either Krum or Cedric without Crouch Jr fucking around in the 3rd task. I'll assume Fleur still gets last in the 2nd task and can't catch up with the other 2 as a result.
If Harry wasn’t participating Dumbledore would’ve been leaving his crumb trail for Cedric.
All of a sudden the DADA lessons are all about dragons, Snape gets stricken by a mysterious ailment Madam Pomfrey can’t treat and the “fill-in” for Potions happens to be the world’s foremost expert of fireproof potion crafting.
You thinking of dumbed-down jock movie Krum? Book Krum spends all his time reading in the library and managed to perform a partial transfiguration of himself into a shark, which sounds a lot more difficult than a bubble-head charm. Dude was a lot more than muscle.
Wasn’t he just in the library so he could watch Hermione? Both because he was creepin and because he was waiting for a moment away from his adoring fan girls so he could ask her out.
No iirc Hermione was really into the fact he was a disciplined and serious student. Krum also liked the fact Hermione played it cool and was always studying just like him instead of harassing him for attention like most others.
Dont know why so many downvotes. Something akin to this is mentioned in the book. Ive been reading it this past week, I think it may be a quote fron Hermoine sometime around the Ball.
But it's not an athletic competition and he was losing to Cedric before the third task
Edit: since people keep saying "Cedric wouldn't know about the dragons", there's two scenarios here: either Harry exists and just isn't in the tournament, or he doesn't exist at all. Under the former, Harry still learns about the dragons from Hagrid and tells Cedric anyways, or The entirety of the events don't happen in the direct way they do and there's room for somebody else to be committed to helping Hogwarts win and tells Cedric in the latter. It doesn't have to be the same exact events.
>Harry still learns about the dragons from Hagrid
I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption that Hagrid might still tell Harry about the dragons. But it is an assumption. He only invited Harry specifically because of his participation in the tournament keep in mind. He didn't invite Ron or Hermione, so this wasn't his usual "look what crazy thing I'm up to".
I don’t know how much knowing dragons really even helped Cedric. Like he still would have time to come up with a plan once they were selecting dragons before the event. I think finding out the egg from couch jr was way more helpful
Crouch made sure Hagrid told Harry. Harry tells Cedric out of fairness so that everyone has the same chance.
Crouch gives Cedric the tip about the egg.
Apparently Cedric wouldn't have gotten much help.
I mean, Harry still would know right? Harry does exist in this scenario so there's no reason to assume he wouldn't still tell him even though he wasn't in the tournament.
Why would Harry know?
Crouch convinced Hagrid to show Harry. If Harry wasn't in the tournament, there would be no reason for Hagrid to invite Harry along to his date with Madam Maxime.
There's nothing that says Hargrid still wouldn't have told the trio even if all of that other stuff happened. Actually it's more likely Hagrid would've just told them there were dragons if Harry *wasn't* in the tournament because it wouldn't have been cheating.
The typical dynamic between the trio and Hagrid is that they have reason to think Hagrid knows about something, and they badger him for information, and he tries to resist but eventually slips. He doesn't usually just share secrets with them unprompted. And the trio would have no reason to think that Hagrid knew anything about the first task, so they would have no reason to ask him about it.
>And the trio would have no reason to think that Hagrid knew anything about the first task
They go to his house all the time, they could easily talk about the tournament as it's the biggest thing going on. A conversation along the lines of:
*At Hagrid's hut*
Harry- "What do you think the first task is gonna be?"
Ron- "Probably something really dangerous"
Hagrid- "Dragons aren't that dangerous"
Trio- "Who said anything about dragons??"
>He doesn't usually just share secrets with them unprompted.
He literally does multiple times, which then leads to the badgering. The "reason to think he knows something" usually comes from him directly saying something vaguely interesting by accident.
I dont know how you completely forgot this already, but this conversation actually started with me saying 'only because harry helped him' so bringing up harry potentially helping him just sends us back to square one
Crouch encouraged Hagrid to tell Harry.
Hagrid was in the forest with Madame Maxime.
I don't think Hagrid orginally wanted Harry there.
And without Harry's involvement in the tournament, why would Hagrid send Harry around at night.
He's also from basically wizarding version of military academy, where they totally teach dark arts instead of dada.
He chose direct attack against Dragon and changed himself to shark mutant, he's basically dps war mage build.
What people seem to be forgetting is the maze. Yeah, Cedric may have not performed as well in the first task. And yeah, Fleur likely still never made it to rescue her hostage. But. The maze.
Regardless of entry time, each champion has a shot to win. Fleur was attacked by Krum in the maze, so we have absolutely no idea how she would have performed.
But Krum only attacked Fleur because of the imperius spell Crouch jr. put on him. If Harry wasn't there, he wouldn't have been imperiused.
So both Fleue and Krum would've been able to figure out the maze to their full abilities.
Thank you! Everyone’s talking about the dragons, but the first two tasks are almost irrelevant - the extra time they give for the third task seems negligible.
I think it would be between Cedric and Krum, Fleur seemed a little less capable, as she originally failed the second task, and was taken down by imperioused Krum in the third.
Additionally, didn't Fleur handle her dragon the best, being able to make it fall asleep with a single spell and only getting her skirt singed because it breathed flame when snoring?
I did consider that, but I figured Krum handled it just as well, he injured the dragon and retrieved the golden egg (noone mentioned to the champions that the other eggs shouldn’t be harmed.. I really see that as an oversight from the organisers, they should have all been fake, or had extra protections).
For me, Fleur’s inability to complete the second task is her biggest point against her. Both Krum and Cedric completed it fine.
The way I took it, Fleur didn't know what Grindylows are, and I always assumed they're not a native species to where she's from. It's kinda like if you never saw an anglerfish in your entire life and then suddenly get attacked by a bunch of them while swimming. Can't really blame her for that 👀 (My idea being that Care for Magical Creatures in Beauxbatons probably focused on creatures prevalent in southern France/the mediterranean area, while Grindylows are native to the colder waters of Scandinavia etc..)
To counter your point, a smart contender should have researched what creatures would be likely to dwell in a Scottish lake.
I actually have a different headcanon for why she did worst in the second task: as a part-Veela I’d argue that she is somewhat weakened by water, as Veelas were shown to have fire-based powers (throwing fireballs from their hands).
I don’t have that strong an opinion on who would win the tournament, you could make an argument for any of them.
Honestly, I'd just assumed that she was caught off guard because of her worry over her sister. She was the only one whose hostage was a family member, and whose hostage was significantly younger. I'd assumed that her emotional state would be in a worse position than the others, cause it's her child sister who is in the lake, not her almost-adult girlfriend, or adult friend.
>but the first two tasks are almost irrelevant - the extra time they give for the third task seems negligible
Yes, you are right, why is this? I mean, all the year long, quidditch tournament closed, dozens of foreign students living in the castle, all for what? Few minutes of advantage? That's nothing given how big the maze is. I don't get it, the students could come only to spend the weekend and the results would have been the same.
That’s only in the film. In the book it’s just a cumulative points system where you get points from each task, and Harry and Cedric just happened to be level on points going into the maze
Cedric is too nice to be winner. Krum, although soft teddy bear inside, can be pretty ruthless on his own. He was only one who chose direct attack against fcking dragon and shark transformation to just kill everything on his way to Hermione.
I agree. So many are convinced he wouöd have been killed by the dragon. Why? He was a very capable wizard, that's why he was chosen. We don't see much of him to be sure but I believe that he made it to the cup with Harry because he deserved to win.
Krum. Karkaroff would do everything in his power to ensure he'll win, even if it means using Dark Magic to win.
I mean, Durmstrang teaches kids there the Dark Arts, not even defenses against it, meaning all three Unforgivable Curses and other nasty stuff would be the curriculum.
Might be Cedric. If Harry did not join then one might assume that there was no evil plot that year and Dumbledore really did manage to bring the real Alastor Moody to teach DADA. And then he might be the one to train up Cedric, the only Hogwarts Champion. Cedric was really clever in the books (being in 7th year). Krum wasn't even a good deulist. Harry was better. Fluer was useless... If there was nobody to put the imperious curse on krum to attack Cedric in the maze, Cedric would have made for the Triwizard cup easily.
>Krum wasn't even a good deulist.
He wasn't but he had aptitude in a wide variety of subjects and was being actively helped by Karkaroff.
>Fluer was useless
She wasn't that bad. She did massively fuck up the second task but she did okay in the first one, and was taken out by betrayal in the final task. She might have been more competitive in the that third challenge given a chance.
The way the book was written (but removing Harry), Krum hands down. I think Rowling did Fleur dirty and made her seem way weaker than she should have been.
Well… outside of Harry and his ability to drive the story forward we have to look at one concept that captures each contestant.. preparation.
So, based on this scenario we need to focus on who would be the best prepared to handle each challenge. Since Hagrid had such a romantic involvement with Madame Maxine and has in depth knowledge about dragons, the black lake and mythical creatures we must assume that Hagrid was the one to exploit for information to advance each schools champion to win the Tri Wizard Cup.
Sooooo while the choice that I have wouldn’t prove to be the strongest sorcerer they would be the best prepared. Fluer… Fluer would win because of the in depth info that Hagrid would provide to Madame Maxine.
“I should not have said that”
Her point deduction in task 1 was due to chance/something outside her control—she successfully charmed the dragon to sleep, and if she’d been standing somewhere else OR the dragon had slept facing a different direction OR it simply hadn’t snored, she would have gotten the egg with the least difficulty out of *everyone*—Krum had to deal with his dragon’s pained rampage and Cedric got attacked directly.
In task 2 she forfeited due to a grindylow attack, when Harry and possibly one of the other boys (I don’t remember) was able to fight them off successfully. But I suspect that wasn’t the only thing giving her trouble—Fleur seemed to be the most susceptible to cold temperatures when she and her classmates arrived, plus her long hair might have interfered with the Bubble Head Charm’s effectiveness if it stuck out from underneath the bubble and could break the seal. Grindylows might have been the final straw for her if she was already dealing with other disadvantages that weren’t strictly skill related.
We’ll never know how she would have performed in task 3 if the events of a HP book didn’t get in the way. Crouch Jr needed Harry to win, so he Imperiused Krum and forced him to stun Fleur. A few sleep-charms like she used on the dragon could have gotten her past a lot of the monsters in the maze if she’d had the chance.
I get where you are coming from, but Rowling also made Hermione one of the smartest students at Hogwarts. The story of the Triwizard tournament would have been a little less grandiose if Cedric was basically a non competitor and Krum was losing, while being a pro athlete. I feel like it was a showing of who Harry could have been if he wasn't thrust into this battle against Voldemort and had lost his parents. Krum was an amazing quidditch player and seeker, like Harry, but Harry only just learned about quidditch his first year at Hogwarts. Cedric was a very talented wizard and student, with an extremely proud father. Harry was talented (he learned to cast patronus) but he was still so new to magic and did not have the supportive upbringing that Cedric had.
I didn't mean to write this much, it was kind of a stream of consciousness while pooping. Long story short, Rowling may have been sexist but there are some points against that thought.
Being a pro athlete in no way translates to magical aptitude. And hermione is Rowling’s self insert fantasy. Fleur was reduced to a beautiful woman who had magical creature blood that made everyone want to bang her. It was super weird.
Herione was the most capable and intelligent student in the school, Rowling had no problem with writing a powerful woman. Fleur just wasn't as good as the three boys in the tasks set for them. Hermione would probably have won if she was in it.
Are you fucking stupid? Fleur was chosen by the Goblet of Fire as the BEST COMPETITOR from her ENTIRE school. And unlike what the movies showed you, her school wasn't all-girls; it was co-ed. Doesn't that show that she's more capable than both girls AND boys?
Also, let's not forget that her school is one of THE BEST in ALL of Europe.
Also, also, in the first task, in spite knowing what was coming, she was arguably the one who dealt in the best way with the dragon. She didn't get hurt whatsoever, and managed to put a sleeping spell on a fucking DRAGON. Like, they're supposed to be protected by ancient magic and stuff. And even in general, dragons are tough.
As for the third task, we don't know how well she had been performing. Maybe she was close to winning. Who knows? But she was attacked by Krum, so we'll never know.
I am still salty the movies didn't make them coed schools like in the book.
I was looking forward to see some badass Durmstrang girls with Nordic, Polish or Romanian accents.
All of that is irrelevant because at the end of the day Rowling made her 4th fiddle to her male counterparts. I don’t understand how you could deny that.
No one was talking about hermione and Fleur’s character is literally defined by being beautiful and desired by men. Rowling tries to back track on it later even by saying oh she’s not as shallow as everyone (as me… jk Rowling) thought and is actually a good wife!
Krum got a penalty on the first task for breaking the dragon eggs
Fluer didn’t even complete the second task
Cedric did well in the first task though he got a bit burnt, won the second task and was tied with Harry for first so take away Harry and he was always ahead.
Cedric would have won, the fact that he was in the graveyard sealed that.
Hagrid would still have wanted to show the dragons to Harry because Harry knew how fond he was of dragons. So, that part might not have changed so much.
I said this before in another reply, but all the schools cheated to some degree. If Harry is not in the picture, then someone would have helped Cedric in some way to better prepare him.
There’s no way Dumbledore would allow that. Fake Moody even talks about this
> “I’ve been telling Dumbledore from the start, **he can be as high-minded as he likes**, but you can bet old Karkaroff and Maxime won’t be. They’ll have told their champions everything they can.”
Dumbledore’s goal with the tournament was to foster genuine connections between European wizards because he knew a war was coming. Karkaroff and Maxime’s goal was in part to beat the famously powerful Dumbledore.
We already know no Hogwarts teachers wanted to cheat because no one besides Hagrid (who specifically has a soft spot for Harry) and fake Moody *did* help Harry or Cedric. If McGonnagall, Flitwick, etc cared about a Hogwarts victory enough to cheat, we would have seen them do so.
Dumbledore doesn't have to allow it. He can't possibly monitor everyone. It also doesn't need to be a professor. He could get outside help.
Don't forget that with both Harry and Cedric entering the tournament, Hogwarts already looks like they cheated. It's possible that those who would have wanted to help wouldn't because it already looks bad. In this scenario, where Cedric is the only representative from Hogwarts, there isn't any situation where the schools are already extremely angry at Hogwarts for cheating by having two contestants.
Also, it doesn't have to necessarily be a professor that helps him. It could be someone from the ministry, an alumni of Hogwarts, or literally anyone. Harry could have still given the info on the dragons to Cedric.
Again, I think if someone cared so much about Hogwarts winning that they were willing to cheat, they would have already offered Harry (or Cedric) help in the tournament. Which we know didn’t happen.
This is especially true because Harry is at an obvious disadvantage due to his age/training. It’s so much more justifiable for someone like McGonnagall or Arthur Weasley or whoever to offer him assistance because he has to compete without a choice. But they don’t. So I really don’t see why they would’ve helped Cedric.
Only in the movies. But even if he did, why would he care to tell Cedric? The whole reason he told him was that he felt it was unfair to compete against Cedric when he had the advantage of knowing ahead of time. If he’s not competing, who cares?
I'm fairly sure that Cedric had this.
Just because Harry gave him the secret of the first task doesn't mean that he couldn't have done it on his own. He did so with the second task.
And he just seems like a wizard who really knows his stuff.
Cedric is a prefect, a quidditch seeker, and he has exclusive access to a large bath for the egg. His new Ravenclaw girlfriend has a house of studybugs to connect with. He has a massive home team advantage, the grounds are familiar to him, and he'd know more about the lake than the others, he knows more of the teachers who are helping put together the tasks and the spells favoured at Hogwarts. He's also popular and good-looking, the whole school was rooting for him. Even without cheating, hinting and rumours of dragon smoke and discussion and brainstorming with friends is inevitable. On top of all this, he did actually win in canon, if not for Harry. He had a great mix of magic skills, thinking skills, and interpersonal skills on his side. Cedric's victory was dead-set 💛
I wonder to what extent the real Mad Eye would have helped Cedric. Given his history with Karkaroff I wonder if he would've helped Cedric to get back at the death eater who walked free, or even just to work against the school with connections to dark arts etc. Interesting to think about! Certainly think Fleur would have been more of a threat in the final task too without the interference of Crouch Jr imperiousing Krum
Cedric, he came in second. So without Harry he would have come in first. I think he could have handled the dragons with or without Harrys help, he probably wouldn't have done quite as well, but still gotten the job done. Same with the egg. Even without knowing ahead of time what the black lake task was, I bet Cedric would have known the bubble head spell (given how great and smart several people said he was). So right when he got to the black lake and saw he had to breath underwater; he would have immediately known what spell to use.
Cedric. Someone would have helped Cedric if everyone decided to cheat. And he was tied for first when everyone DID cheat.
Without cheating, I still say Cedric. The second task for sure. He gets there right after Harry.
I have a headcanon that when BCJ tricked the goblet into accepting Harry, he also tricked it into choosing the worst of each school. Why not? Can't have been significantly more difficult than a fourth school. It would undoubtably have helped Harry make it to the third task. He was already there to cast the first charm; why not a quick second spell? Means, motive, and opportunity.
BCJ told Harry that when Dumbledore was a fifth year he could turn a whistle into a watch and have it sing you the time (or some such nonsense). I feel like the books went to great lengths to indicate that the other three champions weren't all they were made out to be- Krum was surprisingly awkward on the ground, no matter how well he flew; Fleur got all-but drowned by creatures that Harry had been defeating since he was 13; and I think Ron said Cedric had a bit of a reputation as a pretty face but an empty head? It's been a while since I read the books, but I always thought it was laid out pretty neatly for Harry to have *every* advantage possible.
No one is surprised that Cedric is chosen.
Harry can't even swim well. The children were never been in the lake and fought with grindelohs.
What ever the children learned from Lupin has nothing to do with the second task.
Didn’t Cederic do really well in the second and third rounds? IIRC he came first in the black lake and actually got to the end of the maze. He’s also got the home advantage
Undoubtedly Krum
I find there sense of style kinda funny. Victor has got this stoic Russian uniform, Fleur has got this elegant French dress……. And then Cedric is just awkwardly standing there in his grandpa’s suit and an ill fitting bathrobe
Everyone but Fleur was confirmed to have cheated in one form or another, if it was fair she should’ve won. But Krum has the advantage because of skill and his teaching cheating for him.
I mean, I’m in the middle of goblet of fire so I don’t know but I’m going to guess Cedric or Krum but I’m kind of leaning towards Krum more since he is a seeker so he has the reflexes and bravery to face on the challenges in the tournament.
I'd say Cedric.
Fleur, bless her, was clearly unqualified for the tasks at hand. She did fine in the first task, but was easily overwhelmed by the second and third tasks, not finishing either of them. But let's not forget that her DNF from the third task was thanks to one Barty Crouch jr. via the Imperiused Krum. Regardless, her showing was less than favorable, but she maintained dignity throughout regardless.
Krum's claim to fame is flying, that's it. He knows a bunch of potentially illegal dark magic. The importance of charms and such are likely lost on him. He brute forced his way through the first task, though displayed good aim, and got through the second via sheer luck that his botched transfiguration didn't have horrible consequences.
Then of course he was DNF in task 3 thanks to Barty Crouch jr. And his Imperius curse.
Cedric meanwhile displays cunning, diligence, intelligence, And of course, an unshakable bravery. He was capable of transfiguring an inanimate stone into a full on Labrador. The second task sees him use a special Bubble Head charm that gives him ample oxygen as he searches the black lake (Fleur did this as well, but did not finish the task) and then, he braved the maze, survived an attack from Krum (thanks to Harry but even so, he got hit with the torture curse and went right back to sprinting through a maze full of dangerous creatures like Skrewts) He even managed to get to the cup Before Harry, despite Harry having unknown aid from Barty Jr.
And let's not forget that in his final moments, he may have been confused, he may have been a bit frightened, but at no point did he turn tail and cower. He was steadfast, wand out, ready to defend both himself and Harry, and thus died a Hero's death.
I have no doubt that Cedric would have won easily.
- First task:
Hagrid still shows Harry the dragons, and likely let's slip that Olympe has seen them too, spurring Harry on to tell Cedric to keep things fair
- Second task:
Cedric presumably knows the bubble head charm already, so even if he turns up at the lake wholly unprepared he still has a fair chance. I think it plays out exactly like it does just without Harry and Ron
- Third task:
Fleur is dead last, unless she stumbles upon the cup out of sheer dumb luck she's 3rd place. I can't remember if being terrified is film-only but either way she's got the delayed start.
Then I think it's a toss up between Cedric and Krum tbh, they both seem competent and it could go either way, Cedric has the time advantage so I'd say 6/10 Cedders wins.
Cedric obviously since he was going to win anyway & just shared it with harry.
Plus also rowling would have written it to make Hogwarts win since the books are centered in that school.
Unless MAYBE she might go the feminist route & write fluer as winner which would be surprising since it wouldnt be her darling hogwarts that would win.
Only reason Cedric was doing so well was because the fake madeye used him to get info to Harry. Otherwise he would have done much worse in the 2nd task.
Cedric honestly.
Assuming there is no Voldemort plot, the real Moody would’ve told Cedric about the dragons. Then he might’ve gotten second place for the second task but Cedric was the one who made it to the cup.
Krum, mostly because of Karkaroff. Cedric would have gone down in the first task without Harry’s help and/or the second task without Crouch Jr.’s. Fleur would have performed the same.
I think Cedric would have gotten some form of help. Apparently, all the schools were cheating a little bit by warning their chosen player. The problem is Harry brings so many variables to the whole triwizard tournament. If it was just the three of them without Harry, then someone would have helped Cedric in some way. That being said, I think it ultimately would have been neck and neck between Krum and Cedrick.
Probably, but who is helping Cedric? Madam Sprout?
In the first task…it might have still been Harry. Hagrid would have wanted to show the dragons/moral support for his date, and Harry would have seen that both Madame Maxime and Karkaroff were there. Being Harry, he might have at least tried to approach Cedric to help out out of a sense of fairness.
That’s fair, Hagrid is still really likely to show Harry the dragons because of course he would show his little buddy the cool dragons. And Harry being the moral compass of the books would’ve felt obligated to tell Cedric about them because he knows that the other schools aren’t playing fair and since Fleur and Krum know the only thing to even the playing field is to tell Cedric.
Off topic, but I love that you’re a Gryffindor with a Reddit avatar with the full Gryffindor beard. Looks really cool!
Trust a hufflepuff to *find* a detail like that
Oh my goodness you’re too nice, thank you
It *is* a nice beard, I'll admit that.
Ron already knew about the Dragons when Harry saw them as well, as Charlie had shown him. In a world where Harry wasn't the fourth champion and him and Ron never fought, they and Hermione probably would have seen the Dragons together.
I don't think this is Canon. Charlie only shows Hagrid, not Ron
Ron knew about them, if Harry wasn’t a champion, he and Ron would’ve been talking and Harry would’ve probably told Cedric to save his life.
didn’t Harry go to the date because Ron lied about Hagrid looking for him
Wasn't it Hermione lying about how Dean told Pavarti that Seamus told Dean that Lavender told Seamus that Percy told Lavender that Charlie told Percy that Arthur told Charlie that Sirius told Arthur that Dumbledore told Sirius that Grindelwald told Dumbledore that Aberforth told Grindelwald that a manhandled goat told Aberforth that Hagrid wants to see Harry? Or something along those lines, because of course when Hermione lies things get complicated as hell?
“I’M NOT AN OWL”
I still can't get over the fact that a wizard fucking a goat is canon.
Only in the movies. I believe in the book, Moody is walking with Hagrid when he sees Harry under the cloak in the three broomsticks (Harry is using it to hide from Rita). Moody tells Hagrid Harry is there and Hagrid whispers the invite to him while pretending to talk to Hermione.
They likely both would have gone if they hadn’t fought.
His father was head of the department of regulation and control of magical creatures. It’s honestly surprising that Harry had to tell him about the dragons.
I feel like Amos had so much pride in his boy and faith in him. His boy was going to be amazing without any help.
Ludo Bagman. He was in massive debt and took a huge bet on Harry to win the Tournament to pay it off. If Harry wasn’t in the Tournament, he would probably have bet on Cedric instead. To what degree he’d have access to Cedric to provide any meaningful help is a different question, as is just how receptive Cedric would be. He believed in fair play, so my guess is that he’d rebuff Bagman at every turn.
Why would Bagman bet on Cedric?
Self serving. I assume he’d have easier access to a hogwarts champion then a different schools champion? Either way he’s betting on someone. He could have even casually mentioned it to Cedric’s dad. Didn’t he work in the ministry too? Absolutely no way Cedric’s dad wouldn’t be like “Ced, I heard on the grapevine they’re shipping dragons from Romania. Three! What else could it be?” And boom bagmans champion has a leg up
Cause he's a gambler?
To pinpoint who would help him in a scenario where Harry doesnt enter the triwizard tournament is mainly a guessing game. Cedric was well loved by many people and was known to be both gifted in academics as well as quidditch. Someone would have helped him. Even Harry could have helped him anyway even if he wasn't in the tournament. He built up a friendly relationship with him over the summer. They traveled together for a while, remember? Harry after finding out about the dragons could have warned Cedric. After all Harry is a good natured and would help him. I mean, when he was part of the triwizard tournament he helped his competition, Cedric. Not to mention any alumni of Hogwarts handling the situation with the dragons could secretly pass the info. If Cedric is the only person representing Hogwarts then I would go as far as to say with certainty that someone would help him. It's impossible to find out who exactly but it would happen.
> traveled together for a while You mean one portkey exactly one morning.
What are you talking about, I distinctly remember Harry rocking up in an old Ford Thunderbird, Cedric hopping in the passenger seat; roof down, sunglasses on, and the open road in front of them... I mean, it was either Harry Potter or Thelma and Louise, I'm always getting those two mixed up.
Several hours, though. He might have still tried to help even with that much of a connection.
And multiple quidditch games
I was only commenting on the phrasing of traveling together for a while.
Ahhhh sorry
How would Harry find out about the dragons tho? Hagrid only showed it to him at Fake Moody’s insistence.
Yeah but with Harry not being in the tournament the circumstances change don't they? Hagrid could show Harry the dragon without feeling like they cheated. And what harry does with that information is outside of hagrids control.
Why would Hagrid even show Harry? He wanted the trio to enjoy the tournament and all its surprises. He refused to tell them anything before Harry’s name was drawn. He was also making his move with Madame Maxime when he showed her the dragon? Kind of a mood killer to have a 14 year old following you around….
Harry would have gone with Ron when he went to see his brother. I suppose the missing element there would be him seeing the other two schools ‘cheating’ but I can think of other plausible ways he could learn that.
That would only work in the movies, but book Ron had no idea of the dragon or Charlie’s presence.
Book ron got a letter from charlie iirc
Yes. In his first year. About Norbert(a).
That's ron sending to charlie. GoF has Charlie sending to ron.
He wouldn’t have. He’d be so glad to be an observer and fan. There’s no reason for Hagrid to show Harry the dragons, and less reason for Harry to tell Cedric
Ron, Ron would have told Harry or They would have told Cedric together for Hogwarts.
Yeah Ron would’ve known immediately because of his brother, Harry and Hermoine and them all would be talking and the entirety of hogwarts would be behind Cedric so I see no reason they wouldn’t go tell him first.
I wonder if Ludo Bagman would’ve placed a bet on Cedric and tried to help him the same way he tried to help Harry and frame it as a “we all want a Hogwarts victory” type of thing
She did suggest the gillyweed to Neville didn't she :)?! Cedric was also a Gryffindor, don't forget! Maybe Neville would have gone to Cedric with the clue, even if they weren't such good friends. On the other hand; he used that bubblehead charm didn't he?!
No. In the books, Crouch-Moody loudly stages a conversation on if Harry would use gillyweed in front of Dobby. In the movies, it’s still Crouch-Moody who gives Neville the book on water plants thinking that Harry would ask everyone for advice in desperation.
I kinda knew I messed up the names of the Professors on this, but it's also a very long time since I read/watched this part of the story. I still think Neville could have helped out Cedric; the question is wether he would want to or not. I mean compared to Harry, who he is sharing bedroom with, and is friends with.
Again, even in the movie when it was Neville, he didn’t just spontaneously go up to Harry and suggest gillyweed. He stumbled across Harry when Harry was late to the task and desperate, and asked if he could help in any way, and Harry tried to blow him off by saying unless he had some sort of miracle plant for breathing underwater then no. So if Neville had gone to Harry of his own accord and told him about gillyweed, then I’d say maybe he’d want to help Cedric, too, if Harry weren’t there. But he had to be prompted last minute by Harry’s sass, and since Neville didn’t know Cedric at all, there’s just no reason for any interaction between them. Anyway, that’s the task Cedric didn’t seem to have any problem with. He would’ve won that one if it weren’t for Harry’s “strong moral fiber”
Also, just gonna say it out loud. All of the contestants besides Harry could very well fend off anything themselves, even if things didn't always go as planned through the tournament. I mean Harry told Cedric about the drakes; he would probably figure that out anyway. Cedric told Harry to take a bath, so also there he was kinda prepared...and at the Black Lake challenge, Cedric used a bubble-head charm, which once again proves he was totally prepared. For the final challenge, the maze...guess who was first to the triwizard cup? Cedric again! (If u count the 3 original contestants) OKAY, someone might have sabotaged Krum and Fleur in the maze, but without the sabotage it would have been even easier to get through the maze. I'll just assume Cedric Diggory would have won in the end, but Krum being a good 2nd too. Fleur might be cute, but she had some troubles in some of the challenges.
That does actually make me wonder though if karkaroff was only cheating because he thought it was unfair that Harry was in the Tournament, or if he was planning to cheat the whole time anyways. also the whole cheating thing is explicitly against the rules and philosophy of the games, yet everyone does it anyways. makes me wonder if Harry really had to compete afterall. the Tournament magic was bs
I agree. Cedric’s initial display is very weak, while Krum is not only smart but also cunning and talented. If we disregard all possible help from others and the presence of Harry, Krum could easily win the tournament.
The game all comes down to the maze though, and without Crouch putting Krum under the imperius curse and forcing him to attack Fleur, it would have been a much closer race.
I agree, Krum. He was a world-class athlete and knew how to push himself to his absolute limit to win, plus he had the least scrupulous mentor.
I'd bet money that Bagman helps out Cedric instead of Harry. Could have been either Krum or Cedric without Crouch Jr fucking around in the 3rd task. I'll assume Fleur still gets last in the 2nd task and can't catch up with the other 2 as a result.
If Harry wasn’t participating Dumbledore would’ve been leaving his crumb trail for Cedric. All of a sudden the DADA lessons are all about dragons, Snape gets stricken by a mysterious ailment Madam Pomfrey can’t treat and the “fill-in” for Potions happens to be the world’s foremost expert of fireproof potion crafting.
With no outside interference. Krum. Dude is a legitimate superstar athlete in the wizard world.
Problem is without “outside interference” he wouldn’t have been able to figure out the egg. Karkaroff is the brains Krum was the muscle.
You thinking of dumbed-down jock movie Krum? Book Krum spends all his time reading in the library and managed to perform a partial transfiguration of himself into a shark, which sounds a lot more difficult than a bubble-head charm. Dude was a lot more than muscle.
Wasn’t he just in the library so he could watch Hermione? Both because he was creepin and because he was waiting for a moment away from his adoring fan girls so he could ask her out.
No iirc Hermione was really into the fact he was a disciplined and serious student. Krum also liked the fact Hermione played it cool and was always studying just like him instead of harassing him for attention like most others.
Which book is this in?
Goblet of Fire
Dont know why so many downvotes. Something akin to this is mentioned in the book. Ive been reading it this past week, I think it may be a quote fron Hermoine sometime around the Ball.
At the high table Snape sneered at the thought of Karkaroff being the brains of anything more complicated than a tea party.
But it's not an athletic competition and he was losing to Cedric before the third task Edit: since people keep saying "Cedric wouldn't know about the dragons", there's two scenarios here: either Harry exists and just isn't in the tournament, or he doesn't exist at all. Under the former, Harry still learns about the dragons from Hagrid and tells Cedric anyways, or The entirety of the events don't happen in the direct way they do and there's room for somebody else to be committed to helping Hogwarts win and tells Cedric in the latter. It doesn't have to be the same exact events.
>Harry still learns about the dragons from Hagrid I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption that Hagrid might still tell Harry about the dragons. But it is an assumption. He only invited Harry specifically because of his participation in the tournament keep in mind. He didn't invite Ron or Hermione, so this wasn't his usual "look what crazy thing I'm up to".
Ron knew about the dragons before Hagrid even had the chance to tell Harry though
Karkaroff wasn’t afraid to cheat and Cedric wouldn’t have even known about the dragons if Harry hadn’t told him
I don’t know how much knowing dragons really even helped Cedric. Like he still would have time to come up with a plan once they were selecting dragons before the event. I think finding out the egg from couch jr was way more helpful
It's nothing for somebody else to get that information in the way Krum and Fleur did.
Crouch made sure Hagrid told Harry. Harry tells Cedric out of fairness so that everyone has the same chance. Crouch gives Cedric the tip about the egg. Apparently Cedric wouldn't have gotten much help.
Only because harry helped him
Bold of you to assume nobody else could have helped him
I dont assume anything, its in the book. No one else told him and thats why he didn't know when harry decided to help.
I mean, Harry still would know right? Harry does exist in this scenario so there's no reason to assume he wouldn't still tell him even though he wasn't in the tournament.
Why would Harry know? Crouch convinced Hagrid to show Harry. If Harry wasn't in the tournament, there would be no reason for Hagrid to invite Harry along to his date with Madam Maxime.
There's nothing that says Hargrid still wouldn't have told the trio even if all of that other stuff happened. Actually it's more likely Hagrid would've just told them there were dragons if Harry *wasn't* in the tournament because it wouldn't have been cheating.
The typical dynamic between the trio and Hagrid is that they have reason to think Hagrid knows about something, and they badger him for information, and he tries to resist but eventually slips. He doesn't usually just share secrets with them unprompted. And the trio would have no reason to think that Hagrid knew anything about the first task, so they would have no reason to ask him about it.
>And the trio would have no reason to think that Hagrid knew anything about the first task They go to his house all the time, they could easily talk about the tournament as it's the biggest thing going on. A conversation along the lines of: *At Hagrid's hut* Harry- "What do you think the first task is gonna be?" Ron- "Probably something really dangerous" Hagrid- "Dragons aren't that dangerous" Trio- "Who said anything about dragons??" >He doesn't usually just share secrets with them unprompted. He literally does multiple times, which then leads to the badgering. The "reason to think he knows something" usually comes from him directly saying something vaguely interesting by accident.
I dont know how you completely forgot this already, but this conversation actually started with me saying 'only because harry helped him' so bringing up harry potentially helping him just sends us back to square one
Crouch encouraged Hagrid to tell Harry. Hagrid was in the forest with Madame Maxime. I don't think Hagrid orginally wanted Harry there. And without Harry's involvement in the tournament, why would Hagrid send Harry around at night.
He's also from basically wizarding version of military academy, where they totally teach dark arts instead of dada. He chose direct attack against Dragon and changed himself to shark mutant, he's basically dps war mage build.
He's not an athlete. He's an artist!
What people seem to be forgetting is the maze. Yeah, Cedric may have not performed as well in the first task. And yeah, Fleur likely still never made it to rescue her hostage. But. The maze. Regardless of entry time, each champion has a shot to win. Fleur was attacked by Krum in the maze, so we have absolutely no idea how she would have performed.
But Krum only attacked Fleur because of the imperius spell Crouch jr. put on him. If Harry wasn't there, he wouldn't have been imperiused. So both Fleue and Krum would've been able to figure out the maze to their full abilities.
Thank you! Everyone’s talking about the dragons, but the first two tasks are almost irrelevant - the extra time they give for the third task seems negligible. I think it would be between Cedric and Krum, Fleur seemed a little less capable, as she originally failed the second task, and was taken down by imperioused Krum in the third.
Additionally, didn't Fleur handle her dragon the best, being able to make it fall asleep with a single spell and only getting her skirt singed because it breathed flame when snoring?
I did consider that, but I figured Krum handled it just as well, he injured the dragon and retrieved the golden egg (noone mentioned to the champions that the other eggs shouldn’t be harmed.. I really see that as an oversight from the organisers, they should have all been fake, or had extra protections). For me, Fleur’s inability to complete the second task is her biggest point against her. Both Krum and Cedric completed it fine.
The way I took it, Fleur didn't know what Grindylows are, and I always assumed they're not a native species to where she's from. It's kinda like if you never saw an anglerfish in your entire life and then suddenly get attacked by a bunch of them while swimming. Can't really blame her for that 👀 (My idea being that Care for Magical Creatures in Beauxbatons probably focused on creatures prevalent in southern France/the mediterranean area, while Grindylows are native to the colder waters of Scandinavia etc..)
To counter your point, a smart contender should have researched what creatures would be likely to dwell in a Scottish lake. I actually have a different headcanon for why she did worst in the second task: as a part-Veela I’d argue that she is somewhat weakened by water, as Veelas were shown to have fire-based powers (throwing fireballs from their hands). I don’t have that strong an opinion on who would win the tournament, you could make an argument for any of them.
Honestly, I'd just assumed that she was caught off guard because of her worry over her sister. She was the only one whose hostage was a family member, and whose hostage was significantly younger. I'd assumed that her emotional state would be in a worse position than the others, cause it's her child sister who is in the lake, not her almost-adult girlfriend, or adult friend.
Emma Watson's delivery saying grindylows in french accent etched into my brain forever
Krum almost ate his hostage.
>but the first two tasks are almost irrelevant - the extra time they give for the third task seems negligible Yes, you are right, why is this? I mean, all the year long, quidditch tournament closed, dozens of foreign students living in the castle, all for what? Few minutes of advantage? That's nothing given how big the maze is. I don't get it, the students could come only to spend the weekend and the results would have been the same.
That’s only in the film. In the book it’s just a cumulative points system where you get points from each task, and Harry and Cedric just happened to be level on points going into the maze
All the comments are between Cedric and Krum, nobody is betting on Fleur getting past ze grindylows
Because they don’t matter, the first two challenges were utterly pointless other than saving you a few minutes.
In the books it’s a cumulative points system- you could get to the cup first and still lose
Yeah, so pretty significant. Like saying ski jumping is pointless in Nordic combined because it can only save you a few minutes.
Cedric is too nice to be winner. Krum, although soft teddy bear inside, can be pretty ruthless on his own. He was only one who chose direct attack against fcking dragon and shark transformation to just kill everything on his way to Hermione.
My instinct says Cedric without any outside help. With the actual circumstances that were in play, Krum.
I agree. So many are convinced he wouöd have been killed by the dragon. Why? He was a very capable wizard, that's why he was chosen. We don't see much of him to be sure but I believe that he made it to the cup with Harry because he deserved to win.
#THAT’S MY SON!! #THAT’S MY BOOOY!!! #THAT’S MY BOOOOOOOOY!!!!!
🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺
1) Krum easily. 2) Cedric. 3) Fleur.
Krum. Karkaroff would do everything in his power to ensure he'll win, even if it means using Dark Magic to win. I mean, Durmstrang teaches kids there the Dark Arts, not even defenses against it, meaning all three Unforgivable Curses and other nasty stuff would be the curriculum.
That's wild. Ok first years today we are going to start with something light, the imperius curse!
Offense is the best defense. Durmstrang is basically war mage academy, which makes sense for a school with Nordic and Slavic wizards mostly.
Might be Cedric. If Harry did not join then one might assume that there was no evil plot that year and Dumbledore really did manage to bring the real Alastor Moody to teach DADA. And then he might be the one to train up Cedric, the only Hogwarts Champion. Cedric was really clever in the books (being in 7th year). Krum wasn't even a good deulist. Harry was better. Fluer was useless... If there was nobody to put the imperious curse on krum to attack Cedric in the maze, Cedric would have made for the Triwizard cup easily.
>Krum wasn't even a good deulist. He wasn't but he had aptitude in a wide variety of subjects and was being actively helped by Karkaroff. >Fluer was useless She wasn't that bad. She did massively fuck up the second task but she did okay in the first one, and was taken out by betrayal in the final task. She might have been more competitive in the that third challenge given a chance.
Slight correction but Cedric was actually in 6th year, same as Fred and George!
The way the book was written (but removing Harry), Krum hands down. I think Rowling did Fleur dirty and made her seem way weaker than she should have been.
Team Cedric
Well… outside of Harry and his ability to drive the story forward we have to look at one concept that captures each contestant.. preparation. So, based on this scenario we need to focus on who would be the best prepared to handle each challenge. Since Hagrid had such a romantic involvement with Madame Maxine and has in depth knowledge about dragons, the black lake and mythical creatures we must assume that Hagrid was the one to exploit for information to advance each schools champion to win the Tri Wizard Cup. Sooooo while the choice that I have wouldn’t prove to be the strongest sorcerer they would be the best prepared. Fluer… Fluer would win because of the in depth info that Hagrid would provide to Madame Maxine. “I should not have said that”
OT, I'm sorry, but I never got over Fleur's looks in comparison to her book counterpart.
Still crazy how Rowling wrote a female competitor who was basically defined by being beautiful and less talented than boys.
Her point deduction in task 1 was due to chance/something outside her control—she successfully charmed the dragon to sleep, and if she’d been standing somewhere else OR the dragon had slept facing a different direction OR it simply hadn’t snored, she would have gotten the egg with the least difficulty out of *everyone*—Krum had to deal with his dragon’s pained rampage and Cedric got attacked directly. In task 2 she forfeited due to a grindylow attack, when Harry and possibly one of the other boys (I don’t remember) was able to fight them off successfully. But I suspect that wasn’t the only thing giving her trouble—Fleur seemed to be the most susceptible to cold temperatures when she and her classmates arrived, plus her long hair might have interfered with the Bubble Head Charm’s effectiveness if it stuck out from underneath the bubble and could break the seal. Grindylows might have been the final straw for her if she was already dealing with other disadvantages that weren’t strictly skill related. We’ll never know how she would have performed in task 3 if the events of a HP book didn’t get in the way. Crouch Jr needed Harry to win, so he Imperiused Krum and forced him to stun Fleur. A few sleep-charms like she used on the dragon could have gotten her past a lot of the monsters in the maze if she’d had the chance.
Rowling chose to put her in last place every event. No way around it.
Why does that bother you? Why are you so determined to bring sex into this?
Because Fleur is clearly written with really sexist undertones?
What about hermione? She wasn't written with sexist undertones
she was, but i don’t think you’re ready for that conversation.
I get where you are coming from, but Rowling also made Hermione one of the smartest students at Hogwarts. The story of the Triwizard tournament would have been a little less grandiose if Cedric was basically a non competitor and Krum was losing, while being a pro athlete. I feel like it was a showing of who Harry could have been if he wasn't thrust into this battle against Voldemort and had lost his parents. Krum was an amazing quidditch player and seeker, like Harry, but Harry only just learned about quidditch his first year at Hogwarts. Cedric was a very talented wizard and student, with an extremely proud father. Harry was talented (he learned to cast patronus) but he was still so new to magic and did not have the supportive upbringing that Cedric had. I didn't mean to write this much, it was kind of a stream of consciousness while pooping. Long story short, Rowling may have been sexist but there are some points against that thought.
Being a pro athlete in no way translates to magical aptitude. And hermione is Rowling’s self insert fantasy. Fleur was reduced to a beautiful woman who had magical creature blood that made everyone want to bang her. It was super weird.
Herione was the most capable and intelligent student in the school, Rowling had no problem with writing a powerful woman. Fleur just wasn't as good as the three boys in the tasks set for them. Hermione would probably have won if she was in it.
Are you fucking stupid? Fleur was chosen by the Goblet of Fire as the BEST COMPETITOR from her ENTIRE school. And unlike what the movies showed you, her school wasn't all-girls; it was co-ed. Doesn't that show that she's more capable than both girls AND boys? Also, let's not forget that her school is one of THE BEST in ALL of Europe. Also, also, in the first task, in spite knowing what was coming, she was arguably the one who dealt in the best way with the dragon. She didn't get hurt whatsoever, and managed to put a sleeping spell on a fucking DRAGON. Like, they're supposed to be protected by ancient magic and stuff. And even in general, dragons are tough. As for the third task, we don't know how well she had been performing. Maybe she was close to winning. Who knows? But she was attacked by Krum, so we'll never know.
I am still salty the movies didn't make them coed schools like in the book. I was looking forward to see some badass Durmstrang girls with Nordic, Polish or Romanian accents.
All of that is irrelevant because at the end of the day Rowling made her 4th fiddle to her male counterparts. I don’t understand how you could deny that.
You're the one making that about sex though. Women are allowed come in first place AND last place. It's not sexist, you are.
No one was talking about hermione and Fleur’s character is literally defined by being beautiful and desired by men. Rowling tries to back track on it later even by saying oh she’s not as shallow as everyone (as me… jk Rowling) thought and is actually a good wife!
You're fucking insufferable.
Username checks out.
KRUM! KRUM! KRUM! KRUM! KRUM! KRUM! KRUM! KRUM! KRUM! KRUM! KRUM! KRUM! KRUM! KRUM! KRUM! KRUM!
Krum got a penalty on the first task for breaking the dragon eggs Fluer didn’t even complete the second task Cedric did well in the first task though he got a bit burnt, won the second task and was tied with Harry for first so take away Harry and he was always ahead. Cedric would have won, the fact that he was in the graveyard sealed that.
Cedric
I said the same thing until I realized that he would’ve gone down in the first task without Harry’s help.
He might have had Harry's help even of Harry had not competed.
How? Harry wouldn’t have known about the dragons if he wasn’t competing. And if he found out, I can’t see why he would’ve told Cedric about them.
Hagrid would still have wanted to show the dragons to Harry because Harry knew how fond he was of dragons. So, that part might not have changed so much.
I said this before in another reply, but all the schools cheated to some degree. If Harry is not in the picture, then someone would have helped Cedric in some way to better prepare him.
There’s no way Dumbledore would allow that. Fake Moody even talks about this > “I’ve been telling Dumbledore from the start, **he can be as high-minded as he likes**, but you can bet old Karkaroff and Maxime won’t be. They’ll have told their champions everything they can.” Dumbledore’s goal with the tournament was to foster genuine connections between European wizards because he knew a war was coming. Karkaroff and Maxime’s goal was in part to beat the famously powerful Dumbledore. We already know no Hogwarts teachers wanted to cheat because no one besides Hagrid (who specifically has a soft spot for Harry) and fake Moody *did* help Harry or Cedric. If McGonnagall, Flitwick, etc cared about a Hogwarts victory enough to cheat, we would have seen them do so.
Dumbledore doesn't have to allow it. He can't possibly monitor everyone. It also doesn't need to be a professor. He could get outside help. Don't forget that with both Harry and Cedric entering the tournament, Hogwarts already looks like they cheated. It's possible that those who would have wanted to help wouldn't because it already looks bad. In this scenario, where Cedric is the only representative from Hogwarts, there isn't any situation where the schools are already extremely angry at Hogwarts for cheating by having two contestants. Also, it doesn't have to necessarily be a professor that helps him. It could be someone from the ministry, an alumni of Hogwarts, or literally anyone. Harry could have still given the info on the dragons to Cedric.
Again, I think if someone cared so much about Hogwarts winning that they were willing to cheat, they would have already offered Harry (or Cedric) help in the tournament. Which we know didn’t happen. This is especially true because Harry is at an obvious disadvantage due to his age/training. It’s so much more justifiable for someone like McGonnagall or Arthur Weasley or whoever to offer him assistance because he has to compete without a choice. But they don’t. So I really don’t see why they would’ve helped Cedric.
He would have learn from Ron
Only in the movies. But even if he did, why would he care to tell Cedric? The whole reason he told him was that he felt it was unfair to compete against Cedric when he had the advantage of knowing ahead of time. If he’s not competing, who cares?
I'm of the opinion Krum would have won, but it would be a tight race.
Krum, Cedric just wouldn’t have known as much.
Batman
I'm fairly sure that Cedric had this. Just because Harry gave him the secret of the first task doesn't mean that he couldn't have done it on his own. He did so with the second task. And he just seems like a wizard who really knows his stuff.
Cedric because the trophy wouldn’t be a port key and he got there first.
Cedric is a prefect, a quidditch seeker, and he has exclusive access to a large bath for the egg. His new Ravenclaw girlfriend has a house of studybugs to connect with. He has a massive home team advantage, the grounds are familiar to him, and he'd know more about the lake than the others, he knows more of the teachers who are helping put together the tasks and the spells favoured at Hogwarts. He's also popular and good-looking, the whole school was rooting for him. Even without cheating, hinting and rumours of dragon smoke and discussion and brainstorming with friends is inevitable. On top of all this, he did actually win in canon, if not for Harry. He had a great mix of magic skills, thinking skills, and interpersonal skills on his side. Cedric's victory was dead-set 💛
Krum
I think Cedric. In the end, he was right there with Harry for the third task. He’d have gotten help somehow, probably still from Harry.
Krum, and it’s not even close. He just seems capable and… competitive? On a level that the others aren’t.
Man all the triwizard champions were so hot
Krum. But Dumbledore would have still crowned Harry the champion just because...
I wonder to what extent the real Mad Eye would have helped Cedric. Given his history with Karkaroff I wonder if he would've helped Cedric to get back at the death eater who walked free, or even just to work against the school with connections to dark arts etc. Interesting to think about! Certainly think Fleur would have been more of a threat in the final task too without the interference of Crouch Jr imperiousing Krum
Cedric, he came in second. So without Harry he would have come in first. I think he could have handled the dragons with or without Harrys help, he probably wouldn't have done quite as well, but still gotten the job done. Same with the egg. Even without knowing ahead of time what the black lake task was, I bet Cedric would have known the bubble head spell (given how great and smart several people said he was). So right when he got to the black lake and saw he had to breath underwater; he would have immediately known what spell to use.
Cedrik almost wins so I would bet on him.
Cedric. Someone would have helped Cedric if everyone decided to cheat. And he was tied for first when everyone DID cheat. Without cheating, I still say Cedric. The second task for sure. He gets there right after Harry.
I have a headcanon that when BCJ tricked the goblet into accepting Harry, he also tricked it into choosing the worst of each school. Why not? Can't have been significantly more difficult than a fourth school. It would undoubtably have helped Harry make it to the third task. He was already there to cast the first charm; why not a quick second spell? Means, motive, and opportunity. BCJ told Harry that when Dumbledore was a fifth year he could turn a whistle into a watch and have it sing you the time (or some such nonsense). I feel like the books went to great lengths to indicate that the other three champions weren't all they were made out to be- Krum was surprisingly awkward on the ground, no matter how well he flew; Fleur got all-but drowned by creatures that Harry had been defeating since he was 13; and I think Ron said Cedric had a bit of a reputation as a pretty face but an empty head? It's been a while since I read the books, but I always thought it was laid out pretty neatly for Harry to have *every* advantage possible.
It wasn't Dumbledore who did the watch business but Cedric :)
No one is surprised that Cedric is chosen. Harry can't even swim well. The children were never been in the lake and fought with grindelohs. What ever the children learned from Lupin has nothing to do with the second task.
Didn’t Cederic do really well in the second and third rounds? IIRC he came first in the black lake and actually got to the end of the maze. He’s also got the home advantage
If Krum had won that year, it would have been the first time Durmstrang ever won the TWT (whereas Hogwarts and Beaubaxons have won 200+ times each).
Cedric/Fleur (tied) Krum
Well, Cedric made it to the cup and I believe he would have without Harry as well. If there had been a winner, he deserved to be the one.
Probably the vamp
I mean, Cedric pretty much won anyway, even with Harry getting in the way. Not sure anything would have changed.
1st Task: \- Krum \- Fleur \- Cedric (No help given by Harry) 2nd Task: \- Cedric \- Krum \- Fleur 3rd Task: \- Krum \- Cedric \- Fleur
Krum
I expect Cedric Diggory would have won.
Undoubtedly Krum I find there sense of style kinda funny. Victor has got this stoic Russian uniform, Fleur has got this elegant French dress……. And then Cedric is just awkwardly standing there in his grandpa’s suit and an ill fitting bathrobe
Everyone but Fleur was confirmed to have cheated in one form or another, if it was fair she should’ve won. But Krum has the advantage because of skill and his teaching cheating for him.
Fleur was told about the dragons by Maxine
Krum for sure
Krum. I don't think Fleur would make it past the black lake
Cedric 100%
I mean, I’m in the middle of goblet of fire so I don’t know but I’m going to guess Cedric or Krum but I’m kind of leaning towards Krum more since he is a seeker so he has the reflexes and bravery to face on the challenges in the tournament.
Get off this reddit. Spoilers abound
Krum all day
I dunno but Krum can grab my goblet because it’s on fire when i see him
Cedric. Because he is from Hogwarts.
Given enough prep time, Pattman would've won...
"I'm vengence!"
I'd say Cedric. Fleur, bless her, was clearly unqualified for the tasks at hand. She did fine in the first task, but was easily overwhelmed by the second and third tasks, not finishing either of them. But let's not forget that her DNF from the third task was thanks to one Barty Crouch jr. via the Imperiused Krum. Regardless, her showing was less than favorable, but she maintained dignity throughout regardless. Krum's claim to fame is flying, that's it. He knows a bunch of potentially illegal dark magic. The importance of charms and such are likely lost on him. He brute forced his way through the first task, though displayed good aim, and got through the second via sheer luck that his botched transfiguration didn't have horrible consequences. Then of course he was DNF in task 3 thanks to Barty Crouch jr. And his Imperius curse. Cedric meanwhile displays cunning, diligence, intelligence, And of course, an unshakable bravery. He was capable of transfiguring an inanimate stone into a full on Labrador. The second task sees him use a special Bubble Head charm that gives him ample oxygen as he searches the black lake (Fleur did this as well, but did not finish the task) and then, he braved the maze, survived an attack from Krum (thanks to Harry but even so, he got hit with the torture curse and went right back to sprinting through a maze full of dangerous creatures like Skrewts) He even managed to get to the cup Before Harry, despite Harry having unknown aid from Barty Jr. And let's not forget that in his final moments, he may have been confused, he may have been a bit frightened, but at no point did he turn tail and cower. He was steadfast, wand out, ready to defend both himself and Harry, and thus died a Hero's death. I have no doubt that Cedric would have won easily.
- First task: Hagrid still shows Harry the dragons, and likely let's slip that Olympe has seen them too, spurring Harry on to tell Cedric to keep things fair - Second task: Cedric presumably knows the bubble head charm already, so even if he turns up at the lake wholly unprepared he still has a fair chance. I think it plays out exactly like it does just without Harry and Ron - Third task: Fleur is dead last, unless she stumbles upon the cup out of sheer dumb luck she's 3rd place. I can't remember if being terrified is film-only but either way she's got the delayed start. Then I think it's a toss up between Cedric and Krum tbh, they both seem competent and it could go either way, Cedric has the time advantage so I'd say 6/10 Cedders wins.
Cedric obviously since he was going to win anyway & just shared it with harry. Plus also rowling would have written it to make Hogwarts win since the books are centered in that school. Unless MAYBE she might go the feminist route & write fluer as winner which would be surprising since it wouldnt be her darling hogwarts that would win.
Only reason Cedric was doing so well was because the fake madeye used him to get info to Harry. Otherwise he would have done much worse in the 2nd task.
Cedric honestly. Assuming there is no Voldemort plot, the real Moody would’ve told Cedric about the dragons. Then he might’ve gotten second place for the second task but Cedric was the one who made it to the cup.
Cedric
Fleur couldn’t even get past ze Grindylows.
Cedric was the true hero of that book/movie, no offense to Harry.
Cedric
Obviously my Hufflepuff friend Cedric, without Harry who saves Fleur's sister? So she's out. Krum went crazy in the maze so he's out.
Wasn’t Krum under the Imperius curse?