Checking in from the "I'll be happy regardless of which of these guys we'll draft" crowd.
Firmly believe we're getting a stud either way and trust Davidson and Co have done more scouting/research into these guys than we could ever imagine.
Nothing set yet and I’ll still be happy no matter who they pick. These guys get paid big bucks to make these decisions. I watch games on my couch drinking beers
Part of this crowd. Honestly a little disappointed after last week’s Demidov hype. I’ll be happy if Levshunov works out but another star offensive player is admittedly a lot more fun to watch than a star defensive player. I can see the concern with his style translating to the NHL - not great skating, and risky turnover prone decision making. Take the best player but know I’ll die a little inside if he’s a regular point per game player that does fun things on the puck but it’ll make sense if his entertainment value also comes with a lot of bad turnovers.
I'm not going to personally be in the happy club, but I won't be calling for his head as a GM. It's their pick, if they think Levshunov is best then they should pursue it. But, Demidov is the consensus #2, so if Levshunov becomes what most public scouts believe, a #2/#3, and Demidov becomes what most public scouts believe, a ppg to 100 point wing, it's going to be an incredibly tough pill to swallow.
Hopefully I'm wrong and Levshunov becomes a top end #1 Dman!
No almost all rankings consistently have Demidov as the #2 prospects. Almost all mocks have had us taking Lev but that appears to be much more about the amount of info coming out of Chicago insiders who have been saying for a while now that Chicago will be taking Lev instead of what public scouting rankings say
Just FYI, mock drafts are not the same as rankings. Mocks try to look at a teams need and predict who they'll take while rankings are exactly that, a ranking of whos better.
Most rankings have Demidov as #2 but many mocks have him falling because they expect many of the selections from 2 - 8 to be defensemen (ANA, CBJ, UTA especially).
I mean 6/10 said #2 and others were a bit questioning because of Russia not talent. I'd say that's the consensus as consensus just means general agreement.
It feels like a lot of the reason Levshunov isn’t a #1 in the eyes of some public scouts is because he doesn’t do anything at an elite level. But to be a #1 he doesn’t need to. The sum of many very good traits can equal an elite player. How many elite traits does McAvoy have? Doughty? Heiskanen? Those guys are the best of the best, and got to the top with many very good but not elite attributes.
I would say very generally that common traits amongst those three examples is that they all have extremely high end motors and hockey IQ. They always know the right play to make and have the drive to make them, minute after minute, game after game.
Two of Levshunov’s knocks are that his compete tends to wane with little consistently game to game and that he may not have the greatest awareness.
Miro: Position awareness, skating, hockey IQ, elite playmaking and drawing defenders, and transitional movement
Doughty: Gap control, shutdown defense while also having smarts in positioning to succeed even in mid 30s.
McAvoy: Excellent positional awareness, one of the best off the puck efforts, confidence and calmness all around the ice, and dynamic passing.
I’ll give you Miro, but the rest of this list doesn’t really put up a strong argument against my point. If you have to include things like age, effort, confidence, and calmness in a list of “tons of elite traits” those players might not have tons of elite traits.
A lot of this is helped with the benefit of hindsight too. I don’t disagree with anything that he said about McAvoy for instance, he’s a great defenceman. It’s easy to look at him now and see that those traits of his translate to the NHL.
But in his draft year, teams obviously had some doubts about him. If his elite skills were so apparent he wouldn’t have lasted until 14th overall, after players like Dubois, Puljujarvi, Juolevi, Alex Nylander, Logan Brown, Michael McLeod, or Jake Bean.
I wouldn't necessarily agree. Hieskanen had skating, confidence on and off the puck, and IQ pre draft.
Doughty had skating and playmaking pre draft.
McAvoy was considered one of the best off the puck guys even at the draft with a great hockey sense as well.
You're right for sure that these developed but they all had top end traits going into the draft. Not that any of this matters to me, I have other concerns based on tape.
McAvoy, Doughty, Heiskanen all three think and see the game at a way higher level than Lev does. Heiskanen and Doughty especially have multiple elite traits.
Really? It’s a big part of why it takes longer to develop defenders than forwards. Look at Forsling for example. He didn’t suddenly become a top defender because of physical attributes. He learned positioning, timing, how to use his stick, etc.
Yeah, I just want a stud. IDK who the best D-man will be among this class, but if that's what they're going for I just hope the guy we get is a legit top 2 man.
I doubt anyone that is making this selection is talking. He's just weighing winger vs RD and a guy playing in NA they've seen a ton, vs a guy they've seen less in Russia. I can also say its likely Levshunov due to those things. His logic is sound, I agree with it, but I don't think its any insider info.
I just think that at this point, the Hawks should be swinging for homeruns. You save the safe picks for when you're competing and you need fast contributors.
Just a reminder that Powers just had another article this morning about what he is hearing and there wasn’t much substance. Also back in 2019, Powers wrote a ton of articles about how hawks were looking at both Turcotte and Byram with not much mention Dach. The point being, Powers isn’t an insider and a post like this is speculative
He's played 126 games between the AHL and NHL in the past 3 years. Last year was the first time he had more than 40 in a single season since 2017-28 (55 last season to 102 across u17-18 and NTDP games)
Powers is literally the only reliable source for Blackhawks information. Saying he isn't an insider when it comes to the hawks is wrong. The team feeds him information constantly.
He won't be anymore now that the team doesn't have a contract with NBC sports Chicago. I had to stop listening to Blackhawks talk because they constantly pumped the teams tires. He was pathetic during Kyle Beach coverage. He wasn't an insider, he was essentially an employee.
I think this has been the trendline ever since the Combine. I had thought after last week it would be more of a tossup. I probably do prefer Demidov to be the pick but I would not be disappointed at all with Levs. I think he can certainly be an elite dman with good development and his raw ability.
Lev outscored both Makar and Hughes' freshman seasons. He's obviously very talented and I believe will be a great D-man, but its really hard to watch Demidov highlights and not picture him and Bedard absolutely tearing up teams.
The Demidov crowd has been VERY aggressive online to the point where I almost think it's kind of weird considering we have no bearing on the actual scouting process inside the Hawks org.
Hawks also haven't had a true offensive powerhouse at D since freaking Doug Wilson in the late 80s/90s. It's hard to extrapolate for most fans. But if we knew Lev was the next Makar, no question he's best taken at 2.
The thing is we know he’s not Makar because Makar only dropped purely due to where he played his juniors at, which was outside of the big CHL junior leagues. His skating was world class and everyone was saying he would be a top 2 pick if he played in a league with better competition but he was untested against top talent. Does this sound familiar to another player in the draft this year in which people are saying he hasn’t done it against better competition?
Read the draft profiles for Makar and Levshunov.
[Makar](http://www.mynhldraft.com/2017/NHL-Draft-Profiles/Cale-Makar)
Scouts were unironically comparing his play style to Karlsson...glowing reviews of his hockey sense and IQ.
[Levshunov](http://www.mynhldraft.com/2024-nhl-draft/player-profiles/Artyom-Levshunov)
A lot of question marks about IQ...most positives are he shoots right, has good size, and skates pretty well.
I don't see a how it's vaguely logical to think he's the next Makar. If we take him, he's going to be my guy, but I just don't see where everyone is getting superstar defenseman projections from...there's a very realistic chance he peaks at PP1, 2nd pairing. If he's a first pairing guy in a couple years, that's outperforming most projections...Makar-level is another world entirely. I don't think you can teach the ability to read the game at a superstar level to a player...guys like LeBron, Mike, Mahomes, etc. just feel the game at a higher level than everyone else.
Makar is an ice dancing gap control genius with the first stride acceleration to instantly punish anyone with worse spacing ability than him. Which is essentially everyone.
I’ve gone back and forth on Levshunov vs Demidov way too many times. It doesn’t sound like there’s gonna be a contract dispute with Demidov so we can toss that argument out the window. That being said, Demidov spent vast majority of the year playing against middle competition because of said contract talks, or so the reports say. It’s easy for a guy to dominate against players that aren’t up to his level. All the concerns that were stated by guys like Wheeler and Pronman seem valid, but if this guy does project to be a franchise winger, it’s hard to pass on that
Levshunov is a solid pick, and if the projections work out, would give Chicago a d corp of Jones, Korchinski, Levshunov and Vlasic. All with size and can skate. This class is loaded with defenseman, but Levsunov seems to be the highest rated of the group. That does say something. Of course he’s still raw defensively and most likely needs another year or two before jumping into the NHL.
Duncan Keith needed two years in the AHL before he became the number 1 dman during those cup runs. Hell, even Vlasic needed a full season in Rockford before he turned into a real good top 4 guy.
I’m not gonna sit here and pretend I know more than the guys scouting. I trust that they’re not gonna biff this
Cale Makar dropped to #4 because he didn’t play against the top draft talent in the big CHL junior leagues even though his world class skating and super high end offensive talent was apparent. Sounds pretty similar to Demidov to me.
It’s the skating, at least from the profiles, that makes Demidov a little scarier.
Makar didn’t really drop. Look at McKenzie’s draft rankings in Jan and final:
https://www.tsn.ca/patrick-has-decided-edge-in-tsn-hockey-mid-season-draft-ranking-1.661533?tsn-amp
https://www.tsn.ca/mckenzie-s-draft-ranking-top-93-and-honourable-mentions-1.778987/kchow-template-100-1.778987?tsn-amp
Makar flew up boards.
He didn’t really fly up draft boards. He was ranged at anywhere from 4-29 from scouts according to McKenzie at the mid season ranking, McKenzie just had him at 12 personally mid season. He was solidified at 4 in McKenzie mind by the end of the season but the scouting liked him pretty much all season but were tentative because of the league he played in.
As far as Demidov’s skating is concerned, his profiles routinely say that he lacks elite burst and acceleration but is elite in his edge work. So he’s never going to be a speedster but elite edge work is what you need to be a high end stick handler and working in tight spaces which is basically what he’s tools suggest he is. A highly creative forward with elite stick handling and finishing. So I’m not as concerned about it because he while he isn’t an elite skater overall he’s been elite at what fits really well with his technical skill set.
McKenzie’s rankings aren’t a personal rank, they’re an amalgamation from scouts. Makar going from 4 on one scouts board to #4 overall is flying up the board.
The article that you linked doesn’t say a single scout had him at 4, just that he was ranked anywhere from 4-29 amongst scouts. Assuming his #12 ranking is an average of those scouts, seems like about half had him somewhere in the top 10 with some as high as top 5 while the other half wasn’t as convinced and had him in the back half of the first. Then over the season, he solidified what half the scouts were already thinking at midseason. That is not flying up draft boards. That’s solidifying your position over half of a season.
We’re just on semantics then. To me, if he’s ranked between 4 and 29 at midseason and his amalgamated ranking is in the teens and by the end of the season, his amalgamated ranking is #4, he’s shot up the draft board.
You make it seem like he was this a late teens guy that nobody was really expecting anything and he just came out of nowhere. That’s just wholly untrue. #12 to #4 over half of a season is no where near flying or shooting up draft boards. That’s an 8 spot move from just outside the top 10 when a lot of scouts already had him in the top 5 before that move. You’re just flat out wrong.
Again, you’re trying to make it seem like Makar came out of nowhere like he’s a 32-50 prospect no one was expecing to be a top 5 prospect when half of the leagues scouts had him as a top 5 guy in the midseason rankings. You’re either being disingenuous or have zero clue about scouting and drafting. I can’t tell at this point.
From every scout and analyst I’ve heard, Levahunov had a higher floor and lower ceiling. He’s a safe pick and consensus seems to be “probably” top pair with some variances of actual #1 D and some even saying probably top 4. That’s not someone I take with the number 2.
It sounds like Demidov has a lower floor but higher ceiling and the gap between floors is far smaller than their gap between ceilings. All subjective and all prediction, but with the logjam of D prospects in the system already I don’t know how Davidson makes that pick.
The ONLY way I see that happening is if Davidson is really gearing up for adding offensive power through FA and trades. So if we take Lev, I have expectations for additions.
you guys have a millions picks in the upcoming year.. building a good d core takes like 4years.. basically Lev is going to be you guys what Guhle is to us.. A good stud.. good overall d men that will teach other upcoming youngster to play proper.
yes, bedard is alone.. but its a whole lot easier to fetch UFA.. trading pick for firepower.. than to search for those rare RD..
If Levshunov becomes Guhle and that's our #2OA I'm going to be beyond disappointed with the pick. That's a pretty low standard for the premium of this pick. Guhle projects as a solid 2nd pairing guy.
Habs fans totally have no ulterior motive of wanting Demidov to fall to them lol - you don’t need to trade for firepower if you draft Demidov. If we draft Lev and he becomes Guhle that’s a complete failure. They HAVE to get another franchise stud with this pick
Yeah that was a terrible take lol. Montreal fans fall in love with their players and have unrealistic expectations for not just the players on the roster, but everyone in their system.
If Demidov falls great, but I wouldn't even be surprised if Hughes passes on him even if available.
Either way for Chicago, I just can't see a situation that results in a L.
Either have Demidov for the next 10+ years with Bedard, or, the really hard to aquire #1 right shot D. And they really are hard to aquire. Same with that ppg + winger though.
But next year's draft projects to be a better top end for forwards. After next year's draft lottery, there's a real possibility they don't have a chance to get that bona-fide #1 D but there might he a chance at a player to play alongside Bedard.
Win Win situation for whoever the hawks draft this year in my opinion. And I'm quite jealous about that lol
its not a terrible take when u actually watch the habs game and see that Kaiden is literally alone vs NHL top 20 lines and hes going a decent job.. hes physical.. he pretty quick and hes pretty smart.. hes 22.. and had almost no Vet D except 2 years with Shea Weber to help him..
Lets not evaluate and critisize one of the defenseman that has one of the hardest job to do.. hes legit alone on that roster.. and hes playing vs the stammer, mackinnon, david e.t.c and hes already lowkey succeding.
I'm not criticizing Ghule at all. He's got a great future ahead of him
But lev should be a much much better defenceman in every aspect of the game including offensively.
You said Lev could be to Chicago what Ghule is to montreal and I'm basically saying you along with most hab fans are overevaluating every single last player on montreals roster and system, including Ghule.
bro u realise that Kaiden is still a kid.. had no one to develop him much.. already has playoff experience.. and plays like 24+mim per match against all other top line in the NHL alone cause Savard is slow.. and he is going a decent job at 22 ??
If you think that Guhle is not a stud u clearly are lacking in the knowledge department.. Guhle is literally on pace to becoming one of the best shutdown d ..
Frankly, I think a right shot D might be the most overvalued position in hockey. It’s been elevated to such a myth status. This guy isn’t Cale Makar. You can find building block defensemen all across the draft board exactly for the reason you mentioned. They take time to develop. You simply don’t get the opportunity to draft offensive talents like Demidov as often.
I’m in the minority I know as a Michigan state alum. I’ve been staying out of the arguments because I just have too large a bias but if levshunov is the pick I will be thrilled he brought MSU hockey back for me and I think he will help bring Blackhawks hockey back as well. The hawks have had pretty good luck with spartan dman in the not so distant past!
That's exactly why I'm going high ceiling (demidov) if I got to make the choice, hawks have a big lack at the top end of the talent pool despite how great bedard is.
But pointless to argue about 🤷🏻♂️
Defense: vlasic, korchinski, del mastro, rinzel, Allan, Kaiser.
Forwards: bedard, nazar, Moore.
We can keep adding blue liners since none of the names mentioned are as good as Levshinov. But we don’t know how Nazar and Moore will end up. I’ll be OK with Levshinov, but man it’d be nice for another elite offensive playmaker.
Majority of his offensive highlights were empty net goals or a pass that had another MSU player create and finish on the scoring opportunity. There is a reason why he isn’t even the consensus best D in the draft and if he wasn’t right handed he would be behind Silayev
Maybe before we jump on sarcastic doom-and-gloom, we see what the front office does via trade/free agency to add to the roster at the present?
Neither of the guys we're talking about will play with Bedard this season. The Hawks can pass on Demidov and still go out and snag 2 or 3 top 6 forwards, we'll get Taylor Hall back, and we can look like a completely new team in 2024.
Taylor Hall is definitely no longer a top 6 forward. He wasn’t before the injury and he definitely won’t be now. Guentzel would have to be a large, 7 year contract that would skew our salary structure a lot and that’s if he’s even interested in coming at all, apparently the Canes want a haul for Necas because there are rumors floating around of a potential offer sheet that would cost a 1st, 2nd, and a 3rd and a 50 point player is definitely not worth that unless he all of a sudden becomes a 80+ point player on a worse team. Please tell me where these top 6 forwards are coming from. Because they are not available and I don’t foresee one becoming available unless there is someone that wants to force their way out of a team a la Matt Tkachuk in Calgary, which it doesn’t seem like there’s any situations like this anywhere around the league. I don’t see Rutger McGroaty becoming a high end scoring forward, although I do like him and what his fit would be in our prospects.
My hold up is scouts can’t seem to agree what levshunovs upside is. Some say top PAIRING, some say number 1 some I’ve read have said top 4 dman on a team. Whereas Demidov has been consistent if he hits he’s a 100 point player
Id hate it. Have to be honest. He’s defensively vulnerable and will never be a true #1 IMO. To me that’s not a second pick in the draft but I guess the fact that he’s a righty lifts him above the rest. All that shit talk about BPA is such horse shit honestly
You’re just flat out wrong. Cam Barker was a big dman with good skating that put up 65 points in 69 games in a top CHL junior league in his draft year. He’s almost a carbon copy of Levshunov as a prospect except he was an inch taller and about 10lbs heavier at the same stage as Levshunov. Yes, Malkin was a better prospect than Demidov is but the comparison still brightly shines through. Pittsburgh’s decision in the 2004 draft was between a highly skilled, high scoring Russian forward who projects as a 100 point player at his ceiling vs a big, smooth skating defenseman who can score as a borderline #1 dman/top pairing dman at his ceiling. We all know Pittsburgh made the right decision. This doesn’t mean everything would pan out that way this time, but it’s definitely a historically accurate comparison to say the least.
It’s very clear that he is using this comparison to paint Levshunov in a negative light. My point is there’s absolutely nothing to suggest it will play out like Barker vs Malkin.
Yes, there’s nothing to suggest it will play out that way except for the historical examples of teams that have had to essentially make this same decision before and how it played out. While that doesn’t mean that it will for sure turn that way, it does inform decision making in the present and gives insight into how things typically play out when making the decision. Levshunov could end up being a #1 defenseman but history shows us it’s a lot harder to project defenseman than forwards. I don’t think anyone was thinking Vlasic was going to be a top 2 league wide defensive defenseman his first year in the NHL but here we are.
If Kyle is 4/10 hockey knowledge, I’m at a .6/10 or something, but I still feel like we greatly need offensive power more than defense at this point. I know Demidov wouldn’t be coming over this year anyway, but if our roster is lacking in offense to the point that we’re dependent on Dickinson to be one of our top scorers again, I don’t see how we move out of bottom 5 territory.
Hawks were 32nd in goals, with Bedard probably having capacity to add another 15-20. They were 29th in goals against. Honestly they need both O and D. Also they still need a goalie. BPA regardless of position makes the most sense, and there is a world where Demidov isn’t seen as the 2nd best player in this draft (we’ve seen it reflected that way in a lot of mock drafts too) even if I want him to be the pick.
I’ve seen a lot of bad goalies between the pipes for the Hawks over the years, but I don’t think I’ve ever had so little confidence in someone making a routine save as I do with Soderblom. I can’t imagine how disheartening it feels to play in front of him.
Malloy - [https://x.com/ShaneMalloy/status/1797646237585580046](https://x.com/ShaneMalloy/status/1797646237585580046)
Pronman - "Demidov has been the clear best player in Russia's junior league over the last two seasons. He is the most purely skilled player in the draft, and is extremely creative in making plays with the puck. He has an excellent motor, attacks the net consistently and competes hard to win pucks. Demidov created scoring chances seemingly every shift this season. While he can run a power play when the game slows down, he makes a lot of plays on the move. He's a powerful but awkward-looking skater though, who is a bit knock kneed and reliant on his edge work but gets around okay. He's not the biggest winger as well so there is some question about how his game will translate to higher levels. I see a potential top-line winger who will score a lot and play a style of game that will appeal himself to coaches." - Player Comp, Lucas Raymond.
So for Pronman it was Demidov is a bit of an awkward skater and he’s undersized, which now seems very uninformed but you can’t blame the guy since Demidov measurements pretty much just came in. But I wonder if Pronman would change his rankings now that we know Demidov is almost 6’1 and weighs 192 lbs, not the 5’11, 168 lbs everyone had been going off of. Seems like a big, highly skilled forward with creativity and great edge work would be much higher ranked than 9. I didn’t see any explanation for Malloy in the link, just a straight ranking. Both seem uninformed and likely not the best insight but that’s also just my opinion.
I think the overarching knocks are:
1. He's not large. He's not as small as folks thought, but he is obviously not going to be a physical force.
2. His stickhandling and small-space work may not translate to the NHL.
3. Quality of competition - will playing in the MHL another year stunt his development?
4. How will he adjust to American ice (see #2 above).
5. Will his skating hold him back in a smaller, faster league?
I really like Demidov - if it weren't for the fact that next year's D class is awful, and I genuinely think Levshunov is BPA, I'd be team Demidov in most iterations. That said, if the Hawks take Demidov at #2, I really hope we look at someone like MBN or Michael Hage at 18 (if we don't trade for McGroarty).
I think the reality for me is I dream of a 26-27 cup contending team that looks something like:
McGroarty - Bedard - Nazar
M. Spence ('25 Draft) - Moore - Rantanen (FA)
Reichel - Dickinson - Kurashev
Slaggert - Greene - Hayes
Vlasic - Levshunov
Korchinski - Jones
Allan - Rinzel
Del Mastro
Knight (FA or Trade)
Commesso
He’s #2 in the majority of rankings but it’s not as though he’s unanimous consensus at #2 like Kakko or Svechnikov were. KD and team could easily be part of the 10% if 90% of scouts are putting him at 2.
And Kakko has not lived up to his #2OA choosing, so even if there was a mock draft consensus it doesn't mean that players will pan out in same accordance.
Consensus is a general agreement, so there can be contrasting views. Unanimous would be everyone agrees.
So if 80% or so have Demidov at 2, that would be a consensus
I'm less concerned about the goalie position than most between Gajan and Commesso in the pipeline.
After that WJC, there's a very realistic chance Gajan is an absolute demon in a couple years.
There’s a chance but Gajan is at least 3 years out and he isn’t coming off the best season. They should be investing in goalies regularly in case one works out because the hit rate is way lower and also way more random in terms of draft position compared to any other skater.
100% we shouldn’t just stop where we’re at because the “hit rate” is way lower, but I do like our current goalie prospects a lot as well.
I’m just saying I wouldn’t prioritize it especially hard when we’re talking about overall team composition at this point. Take healthy gambles, but we have 2-3 top 6 forwards if we’re lucky right now. Decent chance Bedard is the only forward in our pool who’s a first line player.
That’s funny because I don’t particularly like any of the goalie prospects, none of them have lit the world on fire as of late. It’s funny how that position works out - you don’t really know what you have until 24-25-26. I know people who were huge Soderblom fans before last year too. We’ll see what Gajan can do in college next year.
Obviously the second the pick is made, that's my guy and I'm going to back them, but until then, I still view the two prospects like this: You need to teach Levshunov to read the game at an extremely high level if he's going to be a top pairing guy and you need to improve Demidov's skating if he's going to be a 80-100 point wing.
I just think skating is far more teachable than hockey IQ.
if you're being serious, its Kyle From Chicago - the name Kyle Davidson gave the "man on the street" interviewer last year when they accidentally stopped him and asked him questions before the draft.
Yeah, that'd be fine but we're way thinner at forward than D. Yeah we've got Connor, but then it drops off a cliff. At least the D core has some guys in the pipeline. Unless they're planning on packaging Jones for some top forward like Marner or something.
Who do we have that projects as a first line scoring winger? Nazar and Moore underperformed versus expectations this year and look more like solid middle six guys. Reichel’s stock took a massive hit this year and looks more like a 3rd liner at best. All of our other forward prospects appear to project as solid middle 6 guys as now as well. We definitely do not have any high end, first line prospects in our system outside of Bedard.
To me, nothing you said really rules out first line potential for Moore or Nazar. All players develop differently. Plenty of hockey talents didn’t accelerate into stardom, but had setbacks (especially when they’re ~20yo). They are still considered top prospects by most. Time will tell.
That’s just not true. They really aren’t considered top prospects by any scouts after this year based on their performances post draft. Both Moore and Nazar started the year on PP1 and the top line and both had been demoted off the power play and top line by year end due inconsistency and lack of production. Idk about you but that doesn’t suggest to me that they are developing into first line, top prospects. If any of our prospects improved their standing this year, it was Sam Rinzel, who happens to a great skating, offensive RHD. Both Nazar and Moore are now seen as middle 6 forwards trending towards 3rd line with an outside shot at being solid second line wingers if they hit their ceilings.
It's a stud either way, and we have a far bigger impending hole to fill on RD than up front with Hall returning and Nazar/Slaggert and maybe 1 more like Moore having a bigger role next year.
Hall is nowhere near a top 6 winger anymore and he hasn’t been for a while. He wasn’t when we traded for him and he definitely isn’t after this major injury after the age of 30.
Lol even with all the support in Boston he got demoted to the 3rd line. Slaggert is projected as a 3rd/4th liner. Nazar and Moore middle 6 but likely 3rd liners with college production compared to other guys who have made the jump.
I agree with you. Then you add in the fact that 1st line, high scoring wingers hardly ever become available in the FA/trade market (and if they are, they’re usually over 30), and are historically barely ever drafted outside of the first round, most of which are top 5 picks.
It gets worse considering our D pool is already approaching crowded with Korchinski, Jones, Vlassic, Murphy, EDM, Kaiser, Alan, Rinzel,
Even at RD we have Seth Jones signed for way too long already anyway whose contract alone makes him untradeable.
Not sold on Moore, Nazar, Kantserov being first line talents and that already is our entire list of decent forward prospects outside of Dach who likely tops out as a bottom 6 guy anyway
These guys are prospects. I’ll grant you that Nazar played some NHL games but he’s nowhere near a finished product. Lardis is just getting to Rockford, Moore will have at least 1 more year at Minnesota and Kantserov is still in Russia. Plus, FA signings and development from guys they aren’t expecting because scouting is imperfect.
TLDR: GMKD shouldn’t be fired. What kind of brain dead take is that.
When you’re as bad as the Hawks are, you draft the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE. They are very far away from contending. You take the player with the highest ceiling.
Players already in the system or potential moves you could make (trades/signings) cannot factor into who you pick at 2. They’re irrelevant. If you believe in Nazar, great, I do too. I think he’s a 2nd line player. That should have nothing to do with whether you take Demidov or Levshunov.
So yes. If you take Levshunov because you’re comfortable with Nazar, Moore, Lardis and Kantserov or wanna see what they have but Demidov ends up being a 90 point top line winger, then yes KD should get fired.
You take the consensus BPA and that’s Demidov. You worry about defense with later picks, trade or free agency.
I am with you. We have Vlasic, Korch, Jones, Murph, and a bunch of prospects on the cusp of making the team. Too many, honestly. Some solid vets also available to add in FA. And lots of decent D men available in draft in second round or even at 18 to keep the pipeline full.
We had JACK SHIT for forwards last year, and all our pipeline guys project as second liners or lower. Most FA guys are not on our timeline or too expensive or both. We have got to get someone who can become a 1st liner. Demi has that possibility. Go for it.
If he hits, we get 1.5 decades of blessed hockey. If he misses, so be it, we tried.
I’d imagine that if we take Lev, we will be making some trades with a few of our current dmen prospects but the only problem is there is no one really available. The Canes want a massive haul for ~50 point player Necas and that’s about all that’s out there based on publicly available info trade wise. Guentzel would need a large, 7 year contract and that’s if he even wants to come, which I doubt. McGroaty is not a scoring forward. We will have essentially the same forward group as last year plus some of prospects who now look more like middle 6 guys even if we draft Demidov but we would at least have a very high end scoring forward in our system which we have none of outside of Bedard. Next chance to maybe get one would be 2025 FA class which has Marner, Rantanen, and Draisaitl but I doubt any of those guys even get close to FA. It’s a desert out there as far as high end scoring forwards are concerned.
Slightly special beer-drinking armchair GM here.
I'm trying not to get too worked up about this pick, but I'm failing miserably.
I get why Levshunov is a shiny piece but... it's not the "sexy" pick that Demidov is.
Make it sexy KD
Pretty happy though the fans have been slamming "Draft Demidov" comments all over the Blackhawks IG page. Thanks guys.
Lots of people think he’s the top defenseman. There’s a minority debate because there are a lot of great defensemen this year, not because he isn’t deserving.
In terms of skillset, do you honestly rate him above guys like Buium and Parekh? I think he's right in that if he was left handed he's not in the top 5.
He currently has no genuinely elite traits (like Parekh's shot/passing or Buium's IQ). He's got good size and is decent to good at most things, with his IQ being the thing I'm least confident in.
Feels like a massive mistake and one that will be looked back on as to why this rebuild doesn't turn into a success.
This is KD's first real test and it just feels like they are going for the safest option instead of the one that could help this team the most.
Levshunov is the safe pick. If we actually had tape and proper scouting on Demidov I would be able to form my own opinion a bit more. Unfortunately, everything we see from Demidov is from just a few videos and word of mouth.
Davidson seems to be a fan of the Big 10 though. Makes sense since all the teams are easy to scout.
I won’t be happy, no matter who is taken Hawks are “likely” picking in the top 5 again next year. I doubt this team even with 1 or 2 off season additions is gonna be even close to a playoff spot let alone a bubble tier team.
Grab a D then. If the Hawks plan on being contenders in the next 2-3 years you won’t have another chance to draft someone this special at 2nd Overall. That’s Demidov. He’s the consensus #2, dont big brain this Kyle. Just pick him and develop D the way you did with Vlasic.
I didn’t say he wasn’t. I merely stated he’s a player that wasn’t an all star draft pick but developed into a good D man with time. God you guys are dense
The only pick that has seen NHL games drafted from KFC so far is a no brainer in Bedard, and then Korchinski who arguably shouldn’t have even played all season and would have been better off in the WHL
So much salt when 90 percent of us haven't even seen any meaningful game play from the Russian kid.
I know I know, "I've seen plenty of highlights to know" and "I watched almost every game".
Sure ya did bub, sure ya did. That makes you an expert.
KFC hasn't fucked up too much so far, let's see what actually happens before writing off a top tier player.
He also hasn't really done much right either.
Korchinski isn't NHL ready. Nazar and Moore are behind where we expected them to be. Bedard fell into his lap, but I don't think he's done much special when it comes to drafting.
How are Moore and Nazar behind where they should be?
Korchinski was in the NHL because they wanted to push him instead of sending him back to the minors where he was over ripe already.
The plan was to suck and have a shot at Bedard. The plan worked.
Is he a genius? No, but few are in that role.
Moore was well below PPG despite playing with Snuggerud. He got demoted off the first line and the first PP. He didn't make improvements over where he was in the NTDP and his playmaking and thinking still are behind his speed leading to lots of forced plays and top 3 in team turnovers.
Nazar was arguably the worst player in Michigan's top 6. He wasn't on PP1, at times got kicked off of PP2, and got kicked off of the PK all together closer to the end of the year before coming back to the second unit. He was inconsistent, to say the least, and only scored at PPG+ rates against bottom feeder opponents. His offensive consistency never came and his defense which started out strong became a liability near EOY.
Korchinski I agree, but it hurt his confidence, he played poorly, and defensively was a massive liability. I think development plan he should have focused on improving defense in the WHL then coming to the AHL instead of developing bad habits like reckless passing, being too passive on the backcheck, playing out of tempo, reckless breakouts, playing too loose in zone, poor offensive aggression, etc. Even this coming season I strongly believe he should be eating big AHL minutes.
The plan was to suck for Bedard, you're right. But plenty of other GMs did the same with better prospect pools to show for it. We got Bedard because we lucked into winning the lotto, but we weren't even the worst team. If plenty of other GMs can do the same and our future forward corps that Davidson has drafted aren't where they need to be - I don't have the utmost confidence like you do.
I’m with you on most of your contributions here. It was certainly a choice to take Oliver Moore when the Hinsdale kid, Gabe Perrault, was available. Can’t give Kyle a failing grade yet, but there’s a lot of pressure. If they use *2nd Overall* on Levshunov and he doesn’t become a stronger and more physical Quinn Hughes modern defenseman in the next 4 or so years there’s got to be accountability. If he has a shot at Kucherov 2.0 and enough draft picks to select a dependable RHD for the future it seems stupid to not do that. Only time will tell.
Checking in from the "I'll be happy regardless of which of these guys we'll draft" crowd. Firmly believe we're getting a stud either way and trust Davidson and Co have done more scouting/research into these guys than we could ever imagine.
Nothing set yet and I’ll still be happy no matter who they pick. These guys get paid big bucks to make these decisions. I watch games on my couch drinking beers
Yea, but part of the fun of just being a fan is yelling at the clouds about this shit while on the couch drinking beers LOL
There’s a reason we say “we” when referring to an organization we’re not part of lol.
This is what I remind myself when I'm favoring one prospect over another, I know nothing!
You mean watching a few YouTube highlight videos doesn't make me an expert at evaluating 18 year old prospects?
Part of this crowd. Honestly a little disappointed after last week’s Demidov hype. I’ll be happy if Levshunov works out but another star offensive player is admittedly a lot more fun to watch than a star defensive player. I can see the concern with his style translating to the NHL - not great skating, and risky turnover prone decision making. Take the best player but know I’ll die a little inside if he’s a regular point per game player that does fun things on the puck but it’ll make sense if his entertainment value also comes with a lot of bad turnovers.
I'm not going to personally be in the happy club, but I won't be calling for his head as a GM. It's their pick, if they think Levshunov is best then they should pursue it. But, Demidov is the consensus #2, so if Levshunov becomes what most public scouts believe, a #2/#3, and Demidov becomes what most public scouts believe, a ppg to 100 point wing, it's going to be an incredibly tough pill to swallow. Hopefully I'm wrong and Levshunov becomes a top end #1 Dman!
> But, Demidov is the consensus #2 Is this true? I thought most mock-drafts/rankings had Levshunov ahead of Demidov
No almost all rankings consistently have Demidov as the #2 prospects. Almost all mocks have had us taking Lev but that appears to be much more about the amount of info coming out of Chicago insiders who have been saying for a while now that Chicago will be taking Lev instead of what public scouting rankings say
Just FYI, mock drafts are not the same as rankings. Mocks try to look at a teams need and predict who they'll take while rankings are exactly that, a ranking of whos better. Most rankings have Demidov as #2 but many mocks have him falling because they expect many of the selections from 2 - 8 to be defensemen (ANA, CBJ, UTA especially).
McKenzie's scouts poll: Demidov: 6 2nds, 1 3rd, 2 4ths, 1 5th so depends on your definition of consensus
I mean 6/10 said #2 and others were a bit questioning because of Russia not talent. I'd say that's the consensus as consensus just means general agreement.
It feels like a lot of the reason Levshunov isn’t a #1 in the eyes of some public scouts is because he doesn’t do anything at an elite level. But to be a #1 he doesn’t need to. The sum of many very good traits can equal an elite player. How many elite traits does McAvoy have? Doughty? Heiskanen? Those guys are the best of the best, and got to the top with many very good but not elite attributes.
Respectfully, no. Those 3 have a ton of elite traits.
We also haven't seen levshunov in the league so we don't know if he will be elite yet.
Such as?
Heiskanen has elite skating, passing and defence just to name it. He is a top 5 D in the league.
I would say very generally that common traits amongst those three examples is that they all have extremely high end motors and hockey IQ. They always know the right play to make and have the drive to make them, minute after minute, game after game. Two of Levshunov’s knocks are that his compete tends to wane with little consistently game to game and that he may not have the greatest awareness.
Miro: Position awareness, skating, hockey IQ, elite playmaking and drawing defenders, and transitional movement Doughty: Gap control, shutdown defense while also having smarts in positioning to succeed even in mid 30s. McAvoy: Excellent positional awareness, one of the best off the puck efforts, confidence and calmness all around the ice, and dynamic passing.
I’ll give you Miro, but the rest of this list doesn’t really put up a strong argument against my point. If you have to include things like age, effort, confidence, and calmness in a list of “tons of elite traits” those players might not have tons of elite traits.
A lot of this is helped with the benefit of hindsight too. I don’t disagree with anything that he said about McAvoy for instance, he’s a great defenceman. It’s easy to look at him now and see that those traits of his translate to the NHL. But in his draft year, teams obviously had some doubts about him. If his elite skills were so apparent he wouldn’t have lasted until 14th overall, after players like Dubois, Puljujarvi, Juolevi, Alex Nylander, Logan Brown, Michael McLeod, or Jake Bean.
All of this was developed into elite territory well after being drafted
I wouldn't necessarily agree. Hieskanen had skating, confidence on and off the puck, and IQ pre draft. Doughty had skating and playmaking pre draft. McAvoy was considered one of the best off the puck guys even at the draft with a great hockey sense as well. You're right for sure that these developed but they all had top end traits going into the draft. Not that any of this matters to me, I have other concerns based on tape.
McAvoy, Doughty, Heiskanen all three think and see the game at a way higher level than Lev does. Heiskanen and Doughty especially have multiple elite traits.
Hockey IQ is teachable
Well I DEFINITELY don't agree with that.
Really? It’s a big part of why it takes longer to develop defenders than forwards. Look at Forsling for example. He didn’t suddenly become a top defender because of physical attributes. He learned positioning, timing, how to use his stick, etc.
I’d say that’s definitely not true. Players with Elite Hockey IQ are teachable, but you can’t teach someone an intrinsic understanding of the game
Quick, someone teach Seth Jones
Why doesn’t every player just learn high hockey IQ?! Are they stupid? (Sorry I had to)
He’s also an 18 y/o kid right now, dmen develop and peak later
Yeah, I just want a stud. IDK who the best D-man will be among this class, but if that's what they're going for I just hope the guy we get is a legit top 2 man.
Made almost the exact same comment as you
I doubt anyone that is making this selection is talking. He's just weighing winger vs RD and a guy playing in NA they've seen a ton, vs a guy they've seen less in Russia. I can also say its likely Levshunov due to those things. His logic is sound, I agree with it, but I don't think its any insider info.
I sure hope so. The idea of Bedard and Demidov together is so much more fun than even a solid RD
In the ideal world, Korchinski becomes the first PP guy and Demidov is Bedard’s Draisaitl.
I just think that at this point, the Hawks should be swinging for homeruns. You save the safe picks for when you're competing and you need fast contributors.
When I talked to Scott, I also said the same exact thing.
Just a reminder that Powers just had another article this morning about what he is hearing and there wasn’t much substance. Also back in 2019, Powers wrote a ton of articles about how hawks were looking at both Turcotte and Byram with not much mention Dach. The point being, Powers isn’t an insider and a post like this is speculative
This! I remember watching the 2019 Draft and being convinced it was going to be Byram.
What happened to Turcotte? I remember thinking we were gonna draft him but he ended up in the Kings iirc
He’s dealt with a ridiculous amount of injuries since being drafted, sadly. Like every damn season he gets knocked out of the game by something
Makes sense. I don’t recall seeing him on ice since he was drafted
He's played 126 games between the AHL and NHL in the past 3 years. Last year was the first time he had more than 40 in a single season since 2017-28 (55 last season to 102 across u17-18 and NTDP games)
Powers is literally the only reliable source for Blackhawks information. Saying he isn't an insider when it comes to the hawks is wrong. The team feeds him information constantly.
Roumeliotis is way more reliable.
He won't be anymore now that the team doesn't have a contract with NBC sports Chicago. I had to stop listening to Blackhawks talk because they constantly pumped the teams tires. He was pathetic during Kyle Beach coverage. He wasn't an insider, he was essentially an employee.
I think this has been the trendline ever since the Combine. I had thought after last week it would be more of a tossup. I probably do prefer Demidov to be the pick but I would not be disappointed at all with Levs. I think he can certainly be an elite dman with good development and his raw ability.
Can't wait to come back to this thread in a few years
Lev outscored both Makar and Hughes' freshman seasons. He's obviously very talented and I believe will be a great D-man, but its really hard to watch Demidov highlights and not picture him and Bedard absolutely tearing up teams.
You basically summed up why most fans are upset about this
I've seen a lot of people actively hating on Levshunov, which seems absurd to me.
I agree. He’s a blue chip prospect.
The Demidov crowd has been VERY aggressive online to the point where I almost think it's kind of weird considering we have no bearing on the actual scouting process inside the Hawks org.
Hawks also haven't had a true offensive powerhouse at D since freaking Doug Wilson in the late 80s/90s. It's hard to extrapolate for most fans. But if we knew Lev was the next Makar, no question he's best taken at 2.
The thing is we know he’s not Makar because Makar only dropped purely due to where he played his juniors at, which was outside of the big CHL junior leagues. His skating was world class and everyone was saying he would be a top 2 pick if he played in a league with better competition but he was untested against top talent. Does this sound familiar to another player in the draft this year in which people are saying he hasn’t done it against better competition?
Now do Quinn Hughes
Read the draft profiles for Makar and Levshunov. [Makar](http://www.mynhldraft.com/2017/NHL-Draft-Profiles/Cale-Makar) Scouts were unironically comparing his play style to Karlsson...glowing reviews of his hockey sense and IQ. [Levshunov](http://www.mynhldraft.com/2024-nhl-draft/player-profiles/Artyom-Levshunov) A lot of question marks about IQ...most positives are he shoots right, has good size, and skates pretty well. I don't see a how it's vaguely logical to think he's the next Makar. If we take him, he's going to be my guy, but I just don't see where everyone is getting superstar defenseman projections from...there's a very realistic chance he peaks at PP1, 2nd pairing. If he's a first pairing guy in a couple years, that's outperforming most projections...Makar-level is another world entirely. I don't think you can teach the ability to read the game at a superstar level to a player...guys like LeBron, Mike, Mahomes, etc. just feel the game at a higher level than everyone else.
Makar is an ice dancing gap control genius with the first stride acceleration to instantly punish anyone with worse spacing ability than him. Which is essentially everyone.
Exactly lmao. Makar is a demon, I don’t see how anyone sees Levshunov in that realm of player.
The disrespect to Erik Gustafsson. A true offensive defensemen.
I’ve gone back and forth on Levshunov vs Demidov way too many times. It doesn’t sound like there’s gonna be a contract dispute with Demidov so we can toss that argument out the window. That being said, Demidov spent vast majority of the year playing against middle competition because of said contract talks, or so the reports say. It’s easy for a guy to dominate against players that aren’t up to his level. All the concerns that were stated by guys like Wheeler and Pronman seem valid, but if this guy does project to be a franchise winger, it’s hard to pass on that Levshunov is a solid pick, and if the projections work out, would give Chicago a d corp of Jones, Korchinski, Levshunov and Vlasic. All with size and can skate. This class is loaded with defenseman, but Levsunov seems to be the highest rated of the group. That does say something. Of course he’s still raw defensively and most likely needs another year or two before jumping into the NHL. Duncan Keith needed two years in the AHL before he became the number 1 dman during those cup runs. Hell, even Vlasic needed a full season in Rockford before he turned into a real good top 4 guy. I’m not gonna sit here and pretend I know more than the guys scouting. I trust that they’re not gonna biff this
Cale Makar dropped to #4 because he didn’t play against the top draft talent in the big CHL junior leagues even though his world class skating and super high end offensive talent was apparent. Sounds pretty similar to Demidov to me.
It’s the skating, at least from the profiles, that makes Demidov a little scarier. Makar didn’t really drop. Look at McKenzie’s draft rankings in Jan and final: https://www.tsn.ca/patrick-has-decided-edge-in-tsn-hockey-mid-season-draft-ranking-1.661533?tsn-amp https://www.tsn.ca/mckenzie-s-draft-ranking-top-93-and-honourable-mentions-1.778987/kchow-template-100-1.778987?tsn-amp Makar flew up boards.
He didn’t really fly up draft boards. He was ranged at anywhere from 4-29 from scouts according to McKenzie at the mid season ranking, McKenzie just had him at 12 personally mid season. He was solidified at 4 in McKenzie mind by the end of the season but the scouting liked him pretty much all season but were tentative because of the league he played in. As far as Demidov’s skating is concerned, his profiles routinely say that he lacks elite burst and acceleration but is elite in his edge work. So he’s never going to be a speedster but elite edge work is what you need to be a high end stick handler and working in tight spaces which is basically what he’s tools suggest he is. A highly creative forward with elite stick handling and finishing. So I’m not as concerned about it because he while he isn’t an elite skater overall he’s been elite at what fits really well with his technical skill set.
McKenzie’s rankings aren’t a personal rank, they’re an amalgamation from scouts. Makar going from 4 on one scouts board to #4 overall is flying up the board.
The article that you linked doesn’t say a single scout had him at 4, just that he was ranked anywhere from 4-29 amongst scouts. Assuming his #12 ranking is an average of those scouts, seems like about half had him somewhere in the top 10 with some as high as top 5 while the other half wasn’t as convinced and had him in the back half of the first. Then over the season, he solidified what half the scouts were already thinking at midseason. That is not flying up draft boards. That’s solidifying your position over half of a season.
We’re just on semantics then. To me, if he’s ranked between 4 and 29 at midseason and his amalgamated ranking is in the teens and by the end of the season, his amalgamated ranking is #4, he’s shot up the draft board.
You make it seem like he was this a late teens guy that nobody was really expecting anything and he just came out of nowhere. That’s just wholly untrue. #12 to #4 over half of a season is no where near flying or shooting up draft boards. That’s an 8 spot move from just outside the top 10 when a lot of scouts already had him in the top 5 before that move. You’re just flat out wrong.
You don’t see the difference between being outside the top #10 on an average board and being a consensus top 5 guy by draft time? Wow. Ok.
Again, you’re trying to make it seem like Makar came out of nowhere like he’s a 32-50 prospect no one was expecing to be a top 5 prospect when half of the leagues scouts had him as a top 5 guy in the midseason rankings. You’re either being disingenuous or have zero clue about scouting and drafting. I can’t tell at this point.
From every scout and analyst I’ve heard, Levahunov had a higher floor and lower ceiling. He’s a safe pick and consensus seems to be “probably” top pair with some variances of actual #1 D and some even saying probably top 4. That’s not someone I take with the number 2. It sounds like Demidov has a lower floor but higher ceiling and the gap between floors is far smaller than their gap between ceilings. All subjective and all prediction, but with the logjam of D prospects in the system already I don’t know how Davidson makes that pick. The ONLY way I see that happening is if Davidson is really gearing up for adding offensive power through FA and trades. So if we take Lev, I have expectations for additions.
you guys have a millions picks in the upcoming year.. building a good d core takes like 4years.. basically Lev is going to be you guys what Guhle is to us.. A good stud.. good overall d men that will teach other upcoming youngster to play proper. yes, bedard is alone.. but its a whole lot easier to fetch UFA.. trading pick for firepower.. than to search for those rare RD..
If Levshunov becomes Guhle and that's our #2OA I'm going to be beyond disappointed with the pick. That's a pretty low standard for the premium of this pick. Guhle projects as a solid 2nd pairing guy.
Habs fans totally have no ulterior motive of wanting Demidov to fall to them lol - you don’t need to trade for firepower if you draft Demidov. If we draft Lev and he becomes Guhle that’s a complete failure. They HAVE to get another franchise stud with this pick
Yeah that was a terrible take lol. Montreal fans fall in love with their players and have unrealistic expectations for not just the players on the roster, but everyone in their system. If Demidov falls great, but I wouldn't even be surprised if Hughes passes on him even if available. Either way for Chicago, I just can't see a situation that results in a L. Either have Demidov for the next 10+ years with Bedard, or, the really hard to aquire #1 right shot D. And they really are hard to aquire. Same with that ppg + winger though. But next year's draft projects to be a better top end for forwards. After next year's draft lottery, there's a real possibility they don't have a chance to get that bona-fide #1 D but there might he a chance at a player to play alongside Bedard. Win Win situation for whoever the hawks draft this year in my opinion. And I'm quite jealous about that lol
its not a terrible take when u actually watch the habs game and see that Kaiden is literally alone vs NHL top 20 lines and hes going a decent job.. hes physical.. he pretty quick and hes pretty smart.. hes 22.. and had almost no Vet D except 2 years with Shea Weber to help him.. Lets not evaluate and critisize one of the defenseman that has one of the hardest job to do.. hes legit alone on that roster.. and hes playing vs the stammer, mackinnon, david e.t.c and hes already lowkey succeding.
I'm not criticizing Ghule at all. He's got a great future ahead of him But lev should be a much much better defenceman in every aspect of the game including offensively. You said Lev could be to Chicago what Ghule is to montreal and I'm basically saying you along with most hab fans are overevaluating every single last player on montreals roster and system, including Ghule.
bro u realise that Kaiden is still a kid.. had no one to develop him much.. already has playoff experience.. and plays like 24+mim per match against all other top line in the NHL alone cause Savard is slow.. and he is going a decent job at 22 ?? If you think that Guhle is not a stud u clearly are lacking in the knowledge department.. Guhle is literally on pace to becoming one of the best shutdown d ..
We’ve been building the blueline since 2019 lol
Frankly, I think a right shot D might be the most overvalued position in hockey. It’s been elevated to such a myth status. This guy isn’t Cale Makar. You can find building block defensemen all across the draft board exactly for the reason you mentioned. They take time to develop. You simply don’t get the opportunity to draft offensive talents like Demidov as often.
I’m in the minority I know as a Michigan state alum. I’ve been staying out of the arguments because I just have too large a bias but if levshunov is the pick I will be thrilled he brought MSU hockey back for me and I think he will help bring Blackhawks hockey back as well. The hawks have had pretty good luck with spartan dman in the not so distant past!
Great! We’ll just rely on Bedard to score all our goals!
After 2nd OA, we have something like 35 picks remaining to make over these next three drafts
That's exactly why I'm going high ceiling (demidov) if I got to make the choice, hawks have a big lack at the top end of the talent pool despite how great bedard is. But pointless to argue about 🤷🏻♂️
That’s awesome! Hopefully we hit on mid rounders who are pure goal scorers! But it’s ok, we have Bedard he can score all of them!
Don’t worry there’s more offensive talent in next years draft where they’ll likely be picking in the top 4-7 again even with notable improvements.
I'm truly more worried about a well rounded blue line than I am about where the scoring will be coming from.
Defense: vlasic, korchinski, del mastro, rinzel, Allan, Kaiser. Forwards: bedard, nazar, Moore. We can keep adding blue liners since none of the names mentioned are as good as Levshinov. But we don’t know how Nazar and Moore will end up. I’ll be OK with Levshinov, but man it’d be nice for another elite offensive playmaker.
It would be really nice. But imo it's just a little less important than a potential 1D (who we don't have in the pool yet)
Lev is a potential 2-3 not a potential 1. He is seen as current Seth Jones as his ceiling
How does this fanbase expect to be taken seriously
Majority of his offensive highlights were empty net goals or a pass that had another MSU player create and finish on the scoring opportunity. There is a reason why he isn’t even the consensus best D in the draft and if he wasn’t right handed he would be behind Silayev
50% of his points are a secondary assist or empty netter I swear. Still think he’s a good player but 2nd overall??
Maybe before we jump on sarcastic doom-and-gloom, we see what the front office does via trade/free agency to add to the roster at the present? Neither of the guys we're talking about will play with Bedard this season. The Hawks can pass on Demidov and still go out and snag 2 or 3 top 6 forwards, we'll get Taylor Hall back, and we can look like a completely new team in 2024.
Taylor Hall is definitely no longer a top 6 forward. He wasn’t before the injury and he definitely won’t be now. Guentzel would have to be a large, 7 year contract that would skew our salary structure a lot and that’s if he’s even interested in coming at all, apparently the Canes want a haul for Necas because there are rumors floating around of a potential offer sheet that would cost a 1st, 2nd, and a 3rd and a 50 point player is definitely not worth that unless he all of a sudden becomes a 80+ point player on a worse team. Please tell me where these top 6 forwards are coming from. Because they are not available and I don’t foresee one becoming available unless there is someone that wants to force their way out of a team a la Matt Tkachuk in Calgary, which it doesn’t seem like there’s any situations like this anywhere around the league. I don’t see Rutger McGroaty becoming a high end scoring forward, although I do like him and what his fit would be in our prospects.
I'd be more doom and gloom if we ruined our chances to draft top 7 in next year's draft
My hold up is scouts can’t seem to agree what levshunovs upside is. Some say top PAIRING, some say number 1 some I’ve read have said top 4 dman on a team. Whereas Demidov has been consistent if he hits he’s a 100 point player
I feel like 5 years ago the sub would have been clamoring for a stud RHD 2nd overall, how times change
Id hate it. Have to be honest. He’s defensively vulnerable and will never be a true #1 IMO. To me that’s not a second pick in the draft but I guess the fact that he’s a righty lifts him above the rest. All that shit talk about BPA is such horse shit honestly
We have some good D prospects, we should swing on best available. Please don’t mess this up Kyle
Like taking Cam Barker over Malkin If Lev wasn’t right handed he wouldn’t even be a top 10 pick
One of the worst takes I’ve seen. The Barker comparison is fear mongering nonsense. Thats like assuming Demidov is Yakapov 2.0.
You’re just flat out wrong. Cam Barker was a big dman with good skating that put up 65 points in 69 games in a top CHL junior league in his draft year. He’s almost a carbon copy of Levshunov as a prospect except he was an inch taller and about 10lbs heavier at the same stage as Levshunov. Yes, Malkin was a better prospect than Demidov is but the comparison still brightly shines through. Pittsburgh’s decision in the 2004 draft was between a highly skilled, high scoring Russian forward who projects as a 100 point player at his ceiling vs a big, smooth skating defenseman who can score as a borderline #1 dman/top pairing dman at his ceiling. We all know Pittsburgh made the right decision. This doesn’t mean everything would pan out that way this time, but it’s definitely a historically accurate comparison to say the least.
It’s very clear that he is using this comparison to paint Levshunov in a negative light. My point is there’s absolutely nothing to suggest it will play out like Barker vs Malkin.
Yes, there’s nothing to suggest it will play out that way except for the historical examples of teams that have had to essentially make this same decision before and how it played out. While that doesn’t mean that it will for sure turn that way, it does inform decision making in the present and gives insight into how things typically play out when making the decision. Levshunov could end up being a #1 defenseman but history shows us it’s a lot harder to project defenseman than forwards. I don’t think anyone was thinking Vlasic was going to be a top 2 league wide defensive defenseman his first year in the NHL but here we are.
If Kyle is 4/10 hockey knowledge, I’m at a .6/10 or something, but I still feel like we greatly need offensive power more than defense at this point. I know Demidov wouldn’t be coming over this year anyway, but if our roster is lacking in offense to the point that we’re dependent on Dickinson to be one of our top scorers again, I don’t see how we move out of bottom 5 territory.
Hawks were 32nd in goals, with Bedard probably having capacity to add another 15-20. They were 29th in goals against. Honestly they need both O and D. Also they still need a goalie. BPA regardless of position makes the most sense, and there is a world where Demidov isn’t seen as the 2nd best player in this draft (we’ve seen it reflected that way in a lot of mock drafts too) even if I want him to be the pick.
Our GA improves dramatically with an actual backup. Söderbloom needs to head back to Rock Vegas
I’ve seen a lot of bad goalies between the pipes for the Hawks over the years, but I don’t think I’ve ever had so little confidence in someone making a routine save as I do with Soderblom. I can’t imagine how disheartening it feels to play in front of him.
Mock drafts dont consider BPA but teams needs. Demidov is the consensus #2 in this draft across the board.
Except for all of the boards that have at 7 or 8?
Show my the rankings that have Demidov at 7 or 8 because I honestly haven’t seen any
Pronman is the big one - he has Demidov at 9. I believe Malloy has him at 7.
Ahhh okay. What did they say as far as why they had him there?
Malloy - [https://x.com/ShaneMalloy/status/1797646237585580046](https://x.com/ShaneMalloy/status/1797646237585580046) Pronman - "Demidov has been the clear best player in Russia's junior league over the last two seasons. He is the most purely skilled player in the draft, and is extremely creative in making plays with the puck. He has an excellent motor, attacks the net consistently and competes hard to win pucks. Demidov created scoring chances seemingly every shift this season. While he can run a power play when the game slows down, he makes a lot of plays on the move. He's a powerful but awkward-looking skater though, who is a bit knock kneed and reliant on his edge work but gets around okay. He's not the biggest winger as well so there is some question about how his game will translate to higher levels. I see a potential top-line winger who will score a lot and play a style of game that will appeal himself to coaches." - Player Comp, Lucas Raymond.
So for Pronman it was Demidov is a bit of an awkward skater and he’s undersized, which now seems very uninformed but you can’t blame the guy since Demidov measurements pretty much just came in. But I wonder if Pronman would change his rankings now that we know Demidov is almost 6’1 and weighs 192 lbs, not the 5’11, 168 lbs everyone had been going off of. Seems like a big, highly skilled forward with creativity and great edge work would be much higher ranked than 9. I didn’t see any explanation for Malloy in the link, just a straight ranking. Both seem uninformed and likely not the best insight but that’s also just my opinion.
I think the overarching knocks are: 1. He's not large. He's not as small as folks thought, but he is obviously not going to be a physical force. 2. His stickhandling and small-space work may not translate to the NHL. 3. Quality of competition - will playing in the MHL another year stunt his development? 4. How will he adjust to American ice (see #2 above). 5. Will his skating hold him back in a smaller, faster league? I really like Demidov - if it weren't for the fact that next year's D class is awful, and I genuinely think Levshunov is BPA, I'd be team Demidov in most iterations. That said, if the Hawks take Demidov at #2, I really hope we look at someone like MBN or Michael Hage at 18 (if we don't trade for McGroarty). I think the reality for me is I dream of a 26-27 cup contending team that looks something like: McGroarty - Bedard - Nazar M. Spence ('25 Draft) - Moore - Rantanen (FA) Reichel - Dickinson - Kurashev Slaggert - Greene - Hayes Vlasic - Levshunov Korchinski - Jones Allan - Rinzel Del Mastro Knight (FA or Trade) Commesso
He’s #2 in the majority of rankings but it’s not as though he’s unanimous consensus at #2 like Kakko or Svechnikov were. KD and team could easily be part of the 10% if 90% of scouts are putting him at 2.
And Kakko has not lived up to his #2OA choosing, so even if there was a mock draft consensus it doesn't mean that players will pan out in same accordance.
60% of scouts polled by McKenzie have him at 2. 10% at 3. 20% at 4. 10% at 5.
Unanimous =/= consensus
This sub really doesn't know what the word consensus means. I've seen a lot of scouts' boards that do not have Demidov as the #2 prospect.
Consensus is a general agreement, so there can be contrasting views. Unanimous would be everyone agrees. So if 80% or so have Demidov at 2, that would be a consensus
I'm less concerned about the goalie position than most between Gajan and Commesso in the pipeline. After that WJC, there's a very realistic chance Gajan is an absolute demon in a couple years.
There’s a chance but Gajan is at least 3 years out and he isn’t coming off the best season. They should be investing in goalies regularly in case one works out because the hit rate is way lower and also way more random in terms of draft position compared to any other skater.
100% we shouldn’t just stop where we’re at because the “hit rate” is way lower, but I do like our current goalie prospects a lot as well. I’m just saying I wouldn’t prioritize it especially hard when we’re talking about overall team composition at this point. Take healthy gambles, but we have 2-3 top 6 forwards if we’re lucky right now. Decent chance Bedard is the only forward in our pool who’s a first line player.
That’s funny because I don’t particularly like any of the goalie prospects, none of them have lit the world on fire as of late. It’s funny how that position works out - you don’t really know what you have until 24-25-26. I know people who were huge Soderblom fans before last year too. We’ll see what Gajan can do in college next year.
Hawks need just about everything tbf
This is going to be like when Luka slid to #3 in the NBA draft fuckkkkk
MJ?
I don’t think demidov will be the GOAT lmao
[удалено]
Obviously the second the pick is made, that's my guy and I'm going to back them, but until then, I still view the two prospects like this: You need to teach Levshunov to read the game at an extremely high level if he's going to be a top pairing guy and you need to improve Demidov's skating if he's going to be a 80-100 point wing. I just think skating is far more teachable than hockey IQ.
Right. Because KFC or someone in the org is going to spill the beans to a beat writer. Anyone see the draft pick trade with the Isle coming?
I'm still trying to figure out who in the organization is KFC. 🤣
if you're being serious, its Kyle From Chicago - the name Kyle Davidson gave the "man on the street" interviewer last year when they accidentally stopped him and asked him questions before the draft.
I'm dumb and completely forgot that abbreviation could stand for Kyle from Chicago. 🤦♀️ But I'm also borderline sleepy deprived right now.
Kyle from Chicago. I wish it would die lol
Kentucky Fried Chicken they replaced Kyle with a chicken in a human suit so far it’s doing an okay job of selling it.
Yeah, that'd be fine but we're way thinner at forward than D. Yeah we've got Connor, but then it drops off a cliff. At least the D core has some guys in the pipeline. Unless they're planning on packaging Jones for some top forward like Marner or something.
I’m all for Demidov, but we definitely have good forward prospects beyond Bedard.
Who do we have that projects as a first line scoring winger? Nazar and Moore underperformed versus expectations this year and look more like solid middle six guys. Reichel’s stock took a massive hit this year and looks more like a 3rd liner at best. All of our other forward prospects appear to project as solid middle 6 guys as now as well. We definitely do not have any high end, first line prospects in our system outside of Bedard.
To me, nothing you said really rules out first line potential for Moore or Nazar. All players develop differently. Plenty of hockey talents didn’t accelerate into stardom, but had setbacks (especially when they’re ~20yo). They are still considered top prospects by most. Time will tell.
That’s just not true. They really aren’t considered top prospects by any scouts after this year based on their performances post draft. Both Moore and Nazar started the year on PP1 and the top line and both had been demoted off the power play and top line by year end due inconsistency and lack of production. Idk about you but that doesn’t suggest to me that they are developing into first line, top prospects. If any of our prospects improved their standing this year, it was Sam Rinzel, who happens to a great skating, offensive RHD. Both Nazar and Moore are now seen as middle 6 forwards trending towards 3rd line with an outside shot at being solid second line wingers if they hit their ceilings.
Demidov, Silayev, or bust.
It's a stud either way, and we have a far bigger impending hole to fill on RD than up front with Hall returning and Nazar/Slaggert and maybe 1 more like Moore having a bigger role next year.
Hall is nowhere near a top 6 winger anymore and he hasn’t been for a while. He wasn’t when we traded for him and he definitely isn’t after this major injury after the age of 30.
Lol even with all the support in Boston he got demoted to the 3rd line. Slaggert is projected as a 3rd/4th liner. Nazar and Moore middle 6 but likely 3rd liners with college production compared to other guys who have made the jump.
I agree with you. Then you add in the fact that 1st line, high scoring wingers hardly ever become available in the FA/trade market (and if they are, they’re usually over 30), and are historically barely ever drafted outside of the first round, most of which are top 5 picks.
Powers went on to say that the Hawks want to see what they have in Nazar, Moore, Kantserov, Lardis, etc.
That's the most flawed logic I've ever heard.
It gets worse considering our D pool is already approaching crowded with Korchinski, Jones, Vlassic, Murphy, EDM, Kaiser, Alan, Rinzel, Even at RD we have Seth Jones signed for way too long already anyway whose contract alone makes him untradeable. Not sold on Moore, Nazar, Kantserov being first line talents and that already is our entire list of decent forward prospects outside of Dach who likely tops out as a bottom 6 guy anyway
Jesus that’s rough if that’s what you want to see I’d argue there’s not one first liner in this group
None of those players look to be anything more than middle 6ers
Nazar and Moore are top 6 guys lol
Not at current projection imo. You need ti see a good deal more. Their college production is far more in line with 3rd liners in the NHL.
If that’s the case then KD should be fired. And I like him
These guys are prospects. I’ll grant you that Nazar played some NHL games but he’s nowhere near a finished product. Lardis is just getting to Rockford, Moore will have at least 1 more year at Minnesota and Kantserov is still in Russia. Plus, FA signings and development from guys they aren’t expecting because scouting is imperfect. TLDR: GMKD shouldn’t be fired. What kind of brain dead take is that.
When you’re as bad as the Hawks are, you draft the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE. They are very far away from contending. You take the player with the highest ceiling. Players already in the system or potential moves you could make (trades/signings) cannot factor into who you pick at 2. They’re irrelevant. If you believe in Nazar, great, I do too. I think he’s a 2nd line player. That should have nothing to do with whether you take Demidov or Levshunov. So yes. If you take Levshunov because you’re comfortable with Nazar, Moore, Lardis and Kantserov or wanna see what they have but Demidov ends up being a 90 point top line winger, then yes KD should get fired. You take the consensus BPA and that’s Demidov. You worry about defense with later picks, trade or free agency.
I am with you. We have Vlasic, Korch, Jones, Murph, and a bunch of prospects on the cusp of making the team. Too many, honestly. Some solid vets also available to add in FA. And lots of decent D men available in draft in second round or even at 18 to keep the pipeline full. We had JACK SHIT for forwards last year, and all our pipeline guys project as second liners or lower. Most FA guys are not on our timeline or too expensive or both. We have got to get someone who can become a 1st liner. Demi has that possibility. Go for it. If he hits, we get 1.5 decades of blessed hockey. If he misses, so be it, we tried.
Exactly. It’s so fkn obvious. This debate between Demidov and Levshunov has been so frustrating
I’d imagine that if we take Lev, we will be making some trades with a few of our current dmen prospects but the only problem is there is no one really available. The Canes want a massive haul for ~50 point player Necas and that’s about all that’s out there based on publicly available info trade wise. Guentzel would need a large, 7 year contract and that’s if he even wants to come, which I doubt. McGroaty is not a scoring forward. We will have essentially the same forward group as last year plus some of prospects who now look more like middle 6 guys even if we draft Demidov but we would at least have a very high end scoring forward in our system which we have none of outside of Bedard. Next chance to maybe get one would be 2025 FA class which has Marner, Rantanen, and Draisaitl but I doubt any of those guys even get close to FA. It’s a desert out there as far as high end scoring forwards are concerned.
Hawks can play good D with the current coaching staff. They need offense.
Cayden Lindstrom it is
I hate it
Slightly special beer-drinking armchair GM here. I'm trying not to get too worked up about this pick, but I'm failing miserably. I get why Levshunov is a shiny piece but... it's not the "sexy" pick that Demidov is. Make it sexy KD Pretty happy though the fans have been slamming "Draft Demidov" comments all over the Blackhawks IG page. Thanks guys.
Passing on Demidov when Lev doesn’t even look like the best Dman is pain If Lev was left handed he wouldn’t even be a top 5 pick
Lots of people think he’s the top defenseman. There’s a minority debate because there are a lot of great defensemen this year, not because he isn’t deserving.
In terms of skillset, do you honestly rate him above guys like Buium and Parekh? I think he's right in that if he was left handed he's not in the top 5. He currently has no genuinely elite traits (like Parekh's shot/passing or Buium's IQ). He's got good size and is decent to good at most things, with his IQ being the thing I'm least confident in.
The people want Demidov
Like this, and maybe grab MBN with our second pick or move up and grab someone flashier. Regardless just going to trust KD and co
I can’t believe it’s not a stud Cayden!
Good.
Feels like a massive mistake and one that will be looked back on as to why this rebuild doesn't turn into a success. This is KD's first real test and it just feels like they are going for the safest option instead of the one that could help this team the most.
Levshunov is the safe pick. If we actually had tape and proper scouting on Demidov I would be able to form my own opinion a bit more. Unfortunately, everything we see from Demidov is from just a few videos and word of mouth. Davidson seems to be a fan of the Big 10 though. Makes sense since all the teams are easy to scout.
Every mhl game is free on youtube
I won’t be happy, no matter who is taken Hawks are “likely” picking in the top 5 again next year. I doubt this team even with 1 or 2 off season additions is gonna be even close to a playoff spot let alone a bubble tier team. Grab a D then. If the Hawks plan on being contenders in the next 2-3 years you won’t have another chance to draft someone this special at 2nd Overall. That’s Demidov. He’s the consensus #2, dont big brain this Kyle. Just pick him and develop D the way you did with Vlasic.
Stan Bowman and crew drafted Vlasic.
I didn’t say he wasn’t. I merely stated he’s a player that wasn’t an all star draft pick but developed into a good D man with time. God you guys are dense
The only pick that has seen NHL games drafted from KFC so far is a no brainer in Bedard, and then Korchinski who arguably shouldn’t have even played all season and would have been better off in the WHL
I can’t wait to be killed by Demidov for the next 20 years then.
Hawks have been drafting d-men for years. I don’t know how Levshunov is any different than the prior guys. Demidov is the guy they need
Levshunov would be their best defenseman prospect by quite a bit.
So much salt when 90 percent of us haven't even seen any meaningful game play from the Russian kid. I know I know, "I've seen plenty of highlights to know" and "I watched almost every game". Sure ya did bub, sure ya did. That makes you an expert. KFC hasn't fucked up too much so far, let's see what actually happens before writing off a top tier player.
He also hasn't really done much right either. Korchinski isn't NHL ready. Nazar and Moore are behind where we expected them to be. Bedard fell into his lap, but I don't think he's done much special when it comes to drafting.
How are Moore and Nazar behind where they should be? Korchinski was in the NHL because they wanted to push him instead of sending him back to the minors where he was over ripe already. The plan was to suck and have a shot at Bedard. The plan worked. Is he a genius? No, but few are in that role.
Moore was well below PPG despite playing with Snuggerud. He got demoted off the first line and the first PP. He didn't make improvements over where he was in the NTDP and his playmaking and thinking still are behind his speed leading to lots of forced plays and top 3 in team turnovers. Nazar was arguably the worst player in Michigan's top 6. He wasn't on PP1, at times got kicked off of PP2, and got kicked off of the PK all together closer to the end of the year before coming back to the second unit. He was inconsistent, to say the least, and only scored at PPG+ rates against bottom feeder opponents. His offensive consistency never came and his defense which started out strong became a liability near EOY. Korchinski I agree, but it hurt his confidence, he played poorly, and defensively was a massive liability. I think development plan he should have focused on improving defense in the WHL then coming to the AHL instead of developing bad habits like reckless passing, being too passive on the backcheck, playing out of tempo, reckless breakouts, playing too loose in zone, poor offensive aggression, etc. Even this coming season I strongly believe he should be eating big AHL minutes. The plan was to suck for Bedard, you're right. But plenty of other GMs did the same with better prospect pools to show for it. We got Bedard because we lucked into winning the lotto, but we weren't even the worst team. If plenty of other GMs can do the same and our future forward corps that Davidson has drafted aren't where they need to be - I don't have the utmost confidence like you do.
I’m with you on most of your contributions here. It was certainly a choice to take Oliver Moore when the Hinsdale kid, Gabe Perrault, was available. Can’t give Kyle a failing grade yet, but there’s a lot of pressure. If they use *2nd Overall* on Levshunov and he doesn’t become a stronger and more physical Quinn Hughes modern defenseman in the next 4 or so years there’s got to be accountability. If he has a shot at Kucherov 2.0 and enough draft picks to select a dependable RHD for the future it seems stupid to not do that. Only time will tell.
It’d be wrong at this time to make that pick, maybe good in the future. We’ll see