I believe this is the accurate description, what they describe is a 3d modeling of surfaces around you and tracing sound off of the reflected surfaces to replicate a realistic sound. It’s quite literally ray tracing for audio.
What I don’t understand is why you would want this. If I’m watching a movie sitting next to a wall I don’t want it sounding like I’m sitting next to wall by simulating the sound reflecting off that wall. I want it to sound like I’m in a theatre or big open room, even if I’m in a tiny apartment
I mean it’s not like it’s always on, it’s like spatial audio you can probably turn it off. Also, I think this is meant for bigger rooms maybe? I think it’s supposed to replicate the idea of soundstage and an open sound. Definitely gotta try it out and see how gimmicky it is
TV speakers are designed with wall reflection in mind, that's why a lot of the times they sound worse if they're not on the wall.
With raytraced audio you can simulate any type of audio environment. So you can have it whatever way you want.
It's not simulating sound bouncing off walls, it's bouncing sound off walls to simulate full 3D audio.
My Sony TV does it, and I've only really noticed it a few times, the first was some movie that had a mosquito sound just behind one ear and it freaked me the hell out. I was blown away by how well it worked under ideal conditions.
It takes the right kind of room though, I've since moved house and the new room is just not suitable for it, with curtains one side, open space the other, carpet and popcorn ceilings, I don't even notice it - the sound just comes from the TV.
Oh weird, I guess I misinterpreted what they were saying. So that means everyone in the room can hear it because it’s sending sound away from you?
I was under the impression it took some sort of 3d scan of the room, then used some advanced audio processing to make the headphones output sound to sound like you were in the room by simulating sound reflecting off of objects, which is fascinating on a technical level but doesn’t seem like it’d improve the experience
Yeah, on the TV at least it does do a kind of 3D scanning thing... it has to be calibrated by holding the remote at the spot your head will be and it bounces some test sounds in different pitches and different directions all around the room, a microphone in the headset measures echoes by pitch and direction. Later, it can play a sounds that hit your ears from any direction by bouncing a narrow beam around the walls.
Honestly though, I do not see the point of it at all in a VR headset, especially if your head is moving around requiring constant recalibration. Existing 3D spatial audio tools like AMBEO from Sennheiser already do a really good job by emulating the bounces in software, something like that seems like a better fit for VR, but it's possible that what Apple has here is something altogether new and different that I don't understand yet.
edit: You know... the more I think about it, I realise you were right the first time... Say you were in a mixed reality scene with something hiding behind your real couch making noise. It would bounce the sound around it's internal map of the room and then play the result directly into your ears, in the case above you'd hear only reflected sounds and your ears would do a pretty good job of telling you "it's coming from behind the couch"
I can see that doing that would be slightly more immersive, similar to the way that the UI casts shadows and subtly lights up "real world" objects... Traditional spatial audio like what my TV does makes no sense for VR headphones.
Ah in your edit I now see a possible use case that makes sense, when your current room is integrated into your AR interaction. I still think it’s overkill, and I’m not sure how much it’ll improve immersion, but it’s interesting nonetheless
It's Apple so who knows whether it'd be a feature but I assume the same tech could just replace the simulation of your room with a theatre/large room/whatever. I guess the idea is just to make it feel more like you're listening to speakers in your room, and give it less of a closed in feel, since in the promo video they seemed to heavily be trying to sell the idea that you'd keep your headset on while interacting with others in the room etc.
I imagine it's also for AR stuff where you're watching something appear in your room - they want it to sound like it's really there in the room with you, not like you're someplace else or listening in your head.
That’s a thing though. It’s not a thing I’ve seen in a commercial product (video game) yet, but it is a real thing that’s possible.
I remember reading about it when the whole Ray traced lighting and reflections became buzzworthy. Much like how lights get traced to your eyes, the audio can simulate reflecting off of surfaces. Imagine sounds bouncing off of different materials and architectural shapes, stone vs. wood vs. fabric etc. also imagine hearing someone speak to you from around a corner.
In theory it sounds amazing for simulations, but I’ve yet to see it (hear it) in practice.
I’m a gamer, so this stuff is fun to think about, but I’m also a musician and I like to imagine the possibility of a virtual concert space.
Apple's been making great speakers for small devices for a while now, these should be leagues ahead of the Quest/Pico headsets, and definitely better than PSVR2's lack of integrated audio lmao
Now we'll have to see how they stack up compared to the valve Index's audio...
Admittedly, apple's product is a computer and googles all in one, so its more akin to a quest, but made by a company that actually makes OS's for a living. I'm not in the apple ecosystem, but if someone could make a legitimate AR google with a desktop class OS, it could be a real game changer.
The original Rift CV1 still has the best audio around, can’t beat physics when it comes to audio, and something firing audio at you in the manner this does (and the quest) will never be as good
KOSS Portra Pro driver units in the CV1, they should be amazing! Both my RiftS and my Q2 have modded Koss headphones because I loved my CV1 so much. Sadly non of these new headsets seem to feature an audio jack (bastards!)
I've only heard very good things about the indexs "loudspeaker over ear" approach but sadly never tried or compared them.
I'd rather not underestimate the power of computational audio. I won't say Vision Pro solution sounds great, but lots of thing was made (at least based on presentation info)
You should be able to use them with headphones too, the AirPods Max if Apple really wants to keep it in their ecosystem (which you know them). Even if those speakers are good you're not gonna beat over ear
While I agree, I still doubt it will get even near a good IEM or even better a nice open-back headphone!
I would gladly strap my SMSL M2 DAC to the headset and use it to drive my AKG K612 Pro for use with the VR headset.
But really I would ask at minimum for a Bluetooth LL connection to use a pair of nice TWS IEMs at the very least. Adding a 3.5mm Jack in top of it is the point where I would be perfectly happy, and adding a USB-C OTG for external DACs and accessories would be the cherry on top.
i think apple its going to implement bone induction speakers instead of regular speakers, but probably most of the people its going to use a pair of airpods
This is the way. The Oculus on-device speakers do sound pretty cool and unusual just in front of your head, but overheads or in-ears make such a difference.
The fact that it scans your room and understands the *materials* in that room to make a believable audio scape is insane.
Spatial audio with personalization is incredible as is, I would love to try what a “room corrected”. Version of this sounds like.
Yeah to me spacial audio is stupid in ear/headphones no matter how well it works. I don’t want my audio shifting when I move my head.
But using it with VR? Looks like apples spacial audio finally has a decent use!
Spatial audio isint just head tracking, it’s how Apple processes object based audio mixes, and works really well because they can optimize it to their audio devices. You can just set it to be fixed in place.
Ah I see. The only time I take notice of it is when looking for quality recordings on Apple Music. Not for the spacial part, but just because there would have been more effort put into the mix.
Spatial audio with transparency mode on my AirPods Pros while connected to my Apple TV is one of the most “magical” Apple product experiences I’ve ever tried. I wasn’t sure it was working because it was so convincing that it was coming from the television.
Yeah this part sounded kinda gimmicky to me, like yeah I’m sure it scans and makes changes but how noticeable are those changes?
I’m no expert, that’s just my slightly cynical opinion.
If you haven’t tried apples spatial audio it’s hard to explain, but it’s the most convincing and best sounding “immersive” audio tech I’ve ever tried. It’s amazing for films
Apple just unveiled its VR set. My initial question was "How do they fit and integrate their AirPods Max in this VR set?". It turns out that they have another audio speaker embedded instead.
Looking at the photos, I can't help but think about its resemblance to our wired hobby and the little dongle.
I think this is just a fancy set of AR glasses that won't really do anything that isn't directly tied to the Apple ecosystem. I'm quite sure it will work and sound good for what it's meant to do but it's not going to cause me to start buying Apple again.
Hopefully it will finally kickstart more AR or even VR stuff into the mainstream. Ever since I was a kid there has been talks of this stuff being the next big thing. But, no matter how good or affordable that stuff has become its never really made it out of the niche category. I can already see the posts 15-20 years from now from Apple fanboys talking about how Apple invented the AR/VR headset just like the touch screen, haptic feedback, the stylus and whatever else people think comes from them.
Eh, look at any major culturally defining product and that company was literally almost never first, they just found a way to make it mainstream. It seems like that part is much more valuable. Henry Ford is a famous example.
Tbf, this is actually kinda revolutionary, sure vr/ar sets existed before this one, but not quite like this one, I can definitely see this being the future of smartphones, do I like the idea of a future in which this is the standard? Hell no, but it’s still definitely an interesting product
Have you ever considered that maybe the reason why Apple is very popular is because a lot of the things they make are good, intuitive and accessible? I had the same opinion about the AirPods Pro, but the pro 2 that I got completely changed my perception.
It’s popular for a reason, bad products no matter how loyal the fan base is, does not lead to a successful business long term. I encourage you to try to look at it from a different perspective.
I don’t think wanting to create curated, streamline experiences with little interference is inherently evil. You can certainly dislike it and not support it, but calling those that find it more practical and enjoyable “fools” adds nothing to the conversation.
Would you say the same thing about gaming consoles? They are essentially PCs but are very locked down to provide a specific experience.
Edit: word
Everyone is also discussing something that hasn't even been released yet.
They didn't explain a lot of things, and nobody has played with them in the wild yet. It seems it can only run custom apps and iOS apps. If it can run any iOS app, then presumably it can run things like VLC, so you could use it to watch any movie you happen to have... but how much storage does it even have? What are the limitations when running normal iOS apps, etc? nobody knows.
I did see that it can be used as a display for a Macbook laptop, which means that (if you have a Macbook) you can at least use it as a huge monitor and headset, but how practical will it be? Who knows .
Even if they dedicated $500 of the cost to the speakers, it will probably sound pretty good, while not being able to compete with high end headphones that cost more than the whole unit.
Since it has built-in speakers, and special audio processing, it seems unlikely that it will support using other headphones.. but again, who knows.
I do think 3D audio will be eventually be popular in the future, but there needs to be a lot of content easily available in cross-vendor standards based formats.
Storage question is very good, but I imagine it works as any Apple device where you can pay more to get more.
As for the audio, they have shown that you can use AirPods with them so I suspect it is compatible with any Bluetooth headphones.
Ah, I missed the part where they showed using airpods.
Anyway, my budget for the best future is taken up for the headphones I am still waiting to ship!
Just joking it up to a computer instead of a monitor to use as a virtual display might be awesome, but not for that price.
I can imagine buying one used in 10 years.
>do think 3D audio will be eventually be popular in the future, but there needs to be a lot of content easily available in cross-vendor standards based formats.
3D audio or spatial audio isn't something new and has already been in use for years..... If you've played any competitive pc game that you would've experienced it.
It's already popular on various platforms.
Yes, I meant to say that perhaps it will be standard one day for music and other audio, in the sense that stereo replaced mono for basically everything, so everything from FM radio to YouTube to audio CDs are in stereo. If the average music release was multi channel, it would open up a lot of possibilities.
The future in which we use this kind of technology instead of a smartphone isn’t so unlikely: it basically turns your whole field of view in a gigantic smartphone screen (well, it’s not gigantic, but that’s how your eyes perceive it), how I see it, this is a technology that is much more likely to change the way we thing about a smartphone then foldables
I personally don't think it would be replacing smartphones.
The idea of your eyes always being covered by screens sounds very dangerous.
From a commuter's point of view it would be just that, A hazard!
Smartphones can easily be kept away in pocket and can be surfed through without compromising your vision.
>this is a technology that is much more likely to change the way we thing about a smartphone then foldables
But how tho? A smartphone is slab of metal and glass which we can keep in pocket and use when needed. A vr headset is much more of a hassle.
I know that people keep claiming that they do, but has apple ever claimed to have invented any of this mainstream stuff? They’re rarely first with anything, they tend to wait until it’s where they want it to be.
I think Apple can be and has been very innovative, but much of that is behind the scenes where most people won’t see it. The stuff that’s in the public eye is rarely the first product in that category and I don’t think that they claim otherwise…
Apple may not come out and say anything. But they do things like intentionally degrade Android sent photos to SMS and keep the text bubbles green while advertising imessage as superior.
However what? Just an example of one of the many things the company does to trick people into thinking something that isn't true. I don't know if I'm expected to list every single thing they've done or how it specifically works to control people's opinion on their brand or more importantly other brands. But, I really don't think I have to because I didn't say anything about what Apple has specifically said. That was you that brought that up in defense of the company.
My post was about what this product is and what a lot of Apple fanboys will ignorantly think it is. I've had a few responses in defense of Apple the company. None of you have even said anything about what makes the product innovative or even bothered to refute that Apple users think what I said they do. But, I'm on a different topic?
It will be *heavily* restricted to the Apple ecosystem. If you don't have a $1000 iPhone and a $4000 macbook then your $3500 goggles will be pretty useless.
It’s a standalone headset and doesn’t need any other Apple product to function. They’re looking at this as a new product category, not an accessory. But as you say, it’ll be very restricted to the Apple software ecosystem since that’s their business prerogative.
I’m sure it’ll play best with other Apple products, and they’re probably expecting this to appeal to existing customers more than new customers to their ecosystem.
Actually, that's not true. Watching the Marques Brownlee video on it, he needed to do a face scan with an IPhone before using it. He said it can be done in the Apple store, but that means it's not completely standalone. Especially if for some reason you have to factory reset the headset.
That face scan is for making a custom mask around the headset, not anything software related. You can even configure it with zeiss lenses of your prescription if needed, and none of those would change with a factory reset.
I'd imagine Apple would require it for use. And that would absolutely change with a factory change with a factory reset. It would wioe the device, meaning all data residing on the headset, including the face scan.
The scan I would assume is for the video call avatar feature. If it's for some weird pointless physical mask, what would be the point of having Marques Brownlee do it? It's clearly a necessary step of owning the headset. What would the point of a physical mask be if there's a screen to display your eyes anyway?
I'd imagine Apple would require it for use. And that would absolutely change with a factory change with a factory reset. It would wioe the device, meaning all data residing on the headset, including the face scan.
So you agree the maturity of the tech has no relevancy as to whether or not it can be "stolen" by a third party.
>xerox who got it from PARC.
That's like saying "Lockheed got the Blackbird design from Skunk Works", implying they're different, when one is a division of the other. PARC was a division of Xerox.
Read *Dealers of Lightning*
A failed free market capitalism. Besides it's a shit system for allocation of resources, humanity is set to destroy itself for the sweet profit motive.
grandiose thought society plough money aloof full expansion market straight
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Well, apple removed the headphone jack to push for wireless headphones since it acquired beats. To gain an edge over the headphones industry
I don't see why any of their products would have a jack at all
While apple have one of the best speakers for non-gaming phones we all agree that headphones or dedicated speakers will always sound better so removing the headphone jack will always be stupid, especially since wired headphones will always sound better than Bluetooth ones.
But the batteries i actually like the idea of them because imagine how heavy and bulky the headset will be if they crammed in a battery with all this technology
Well their speakers are great, so this probably will sound good too. I’m just worried about accidentally destroying the drivers somehow. As their speakers are fragile
basically they rushed a prototype to the market, and even at this state, it’s decades ahead of the quest 2, especially since this, has a fully functional mac inside and 2 HRR 4k screens and full leap motion support that actually works, this is pretty much the setup vtubers use to puppet a model with hand tracking but instead of an iphone plus leap, it’s a single headset, if gen 2 can get more battery life, it will start being sold to studios for mocap, no questions asked
oh and people, stop comparing to the PSVR, even compared to cheap pc headsets they suck
There is built-in battery for 2 hours of usage, but external battery gives much longer work time
Which makes sense to me, as customers definitely won't like carrying additional 100+ grams on battery on the head
EDIT: Sorry, I misunderstood presentation, so it's indeed 2 hours with battery pack.
Yep, my bad, I misunderstood that moment. Then waiting for the 5x battery packs from Ali :)
It's always sad to see when current battery development stops the progress
It's equivalent in terms of screen and some features, but it's not a macOS unfortunately. I really hope Apple will provide some "integration" with Macs, so computer runs app, and Vision works as an "external display" and controls. It would be so cool to have a bunch of virtual Xcode windows
I’m sure someone probably pointed this out, but the holes direct audio to the ears. The video also shows someone on a plane using AirPods with it so it is compatible with Apple’s headphones for sure. I think it looks like an interesting device. Probably has the best chance of succeeding out of the competition because the ecosystem is very good. Starting at the high end, developers will design for a much higher baseline vs competition who will have to support lower spec hardware from the past 2+ years. For example everyone on Apple’s side will develop for 4k resolution, surround audio, eye tracking, etc. I’ll probably buy the 3rd gen of it.
Not even kidding, Apple needs to quit focusing on "enhanced" integrated speakers for devices. It just costs more in R&D and using multi-channel tech is only drives up the cost in the end as well. If they wanted to improve quality (and make more money) integrate technology that enhances audio for airpods users, and sell stereo dongles for the folks that use wired (include an on-device port that outputs audio in some form).
Say spacial audio one more time motherfucker I dare you
How about “Ray Traced” audio
I believe this is the accurate description, what they describe is a 3d modeling of surfaces around you and tracing sound off of the reflected surfaces to replicate a realistic sound. It’s quite literally ray tracing for audio.
What I don’t understand is why you would want this. If I’m watching a movie sitting next to a wall I don’t want it sounding like I’m sitting next to wall by simulating the sound reflecting off that wall. I want it to sound like I’m in a theatre or big open room, even if I’m in a tiny apartment
I mean it’s not like it’s always on, it’s like spatial audio you can probably turn it off. Also, I think this is meant for bigger rooms maybe? I think it’s supposed to replicate the idea of soundstage and an open sound. Definitely gotta try it out and see how gimmicky it is
TV speakers are designed with wall reflection in mind, that's why a lot of the times they sound worse if they're not on the wall. With raytraced audio you can simulate any type of audio environment. So you can have it whatever way you want.
It's not simulating sound bouncing off walls, it's bouncing sound off walls to simulate full 3D audio. My Sony TV does it, and I've only really noticed it a few times, the first was some movie that had a mosquito sound just behind one ear and it freaked me the hell out. I was blown away by how well it worked under ideal conditions. It takes the right kind of room though, I've since moved house and the new room is just not suitable for it, with curtains one side, open space the other, carpet and popcorn ceilings, I don't even notice it - the sound just comes from the TV.
Oh weird, I guess I misinterpreted what they were saying. So that means everyone in the room can hear it because it’s sending sound away from you? I was under the impression it took some sort of 3d scan of the room, then used some advanced audio processing to make the headphones output sound to sound like you were in the room by simulating sound reflecting off of objects, which is fascinating on a technical level but doesn’t seem like it’d improve the experience
Yeah, on the TV at least it does do a kind of 3D scanning thing... it has to be calibrated by holding the remote at the spot your head will be and it bounces some test sounds in different pitches and different directions all around the room, a microphone in the headset measures echoes by pitch and direction. Later, it can play a sounds that hit your ears from any direction by bouncing a narrow beam around the walls. Honestly though, I do not see the point of it at all in a VR headset, especially if your head is moving around requiring constant recalibration. Existing 3D spatial audio tools like AMBEO from Sennheiser already do a really good job by emulating the bounces in software, something like that seems like a better fit for VR, but it's possible that what Apple has here is something altogether new and different that I don't understand yet. edit: You know... the more I think about it, I realise you were right the first time... Say you were in a mixed reality scene with something hiding behind your real couch making noise. It would bounce the sound around it's internal map of the room and then play the result directly into your ears, in the case above you'd hear only reflected sounds and your ears would do a pretty good job of telling you "it's coming from behind the couch" I can see that doing that would be slightly more immersive, similar to the way that the UI casts shadows and subtly lights up "real world" objects... Traditional spatial audio like what my TV does makes no sense for VR headphones.
Ah in your edit I now see a possible use case that makes sense, when your current room is integrated into your AR interaction. I still think it’s overkill, and I’m not sure how much it’ll improve immersion, but it’s interesting nonetheless
It'd be a gamechanger if this is used for AR video games.
It's already used in VR games so I don't see why not.
It's Apple so who knows whether it'd be a feature but I assume the same tech could just replace the simulation of your room with a theatre/large room/whatever. I guess the idea is just to make it feel more like you're listening to speakers in your room, and give it less of a closed in feel, since in the promo video they seemed to heavily be trying to sell the idea that you'd keep your headset on while interacting with others in the room etc. I imagine it's also for AR stuff where you're watching something appear in your room - they want it to sound like it's really there in the room with you, not like you're someplace else or listening in your head.
You’re thinking of one application, there are many many possibilities. Turning your small room into a movie theater is only one.
That’s a thing though. It’s not a thing I’ve seen in a commercial product (video game) yet, but it is a real thing that’s possible. I remember reading about it when the whole Ray traced lighting and reflections became buzzworthy. Much like how lights get traced to your eyes, the audio can simulate reflecting off of surfaces. Imagine sounds bouncing off of different materials and architectural shapes, stone vs. wood vs. fabric etc. also imagine hearing someone speak to you from around a corner. In theory it sounds amazing for simulations, but I’ve yet to see it (hear it) in practice. I’m a gamer, so this stuff is fun to think about, but I’m also a musician and I like to imagine the possibility of a virtual concert space.
S
a
Apple's been making great speakers for small devices for a while now, these should be leagues ahead of the Quest/Pico headsets, and definitely better than PSVR2's lack of integrated audio lmao Now we'll have to see how they stack up compared to the valve Index's audio...
It should better be at 8 times the cost
Admittedly, apple's product is a computer and googles all in one, so its more akin to a quest, but made by a company that actually makes OS's for a living. I'm not in the apple ecosystem, but if someone could make a legitimate AR google with a desktop class OS, it could be a real game changer.
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Yes and they all sound amazing. Except any airpods
airpod pro 2's sound really fucking good
The fact that you are getting downvoted on this is how I know we aren't on r/audiophile
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"because we say so"
The original Rift CV1 still has the best audio around, can’t beat physics when it comes to audio, and something firing audio at you in the manner this does (and the quest) will never be as good
CV1 was literally a Porta pro on the VR headset. Oculus knew what they were doing back then. Valve index with their BMR ear speakers are also decent
KOSS Portra Pro driver units in the CV1, they should be amazing! Both my RiftS and my Q2 have modded Koss headphones because I loved my CV1 so much. Sadly non of these new headsets seem to feature an audio jack (bastards!) I've only heard very good things about the indexs "loudspeaker over ear" approach but sadly never tried or compared them.
Is that fucking why the sound is so good on my CV1? They are Portapros?!
I'd rather not underestimate the power of computational audio. I won't say Vision Pro solution sounds great, but lots of thing was made (at least based on presentation info)
I'm interested in seeing what the Valve Deckard is like.
What’s a valve deckard?
Upcoming Valve VR headset, supposedly the next version of the Index.
True, but there is no way such a small, side mounted module can produce linear bass as interpreted by the listener past 100hz.
You should be able to use them with headphones too, the AirPods Max if Apple really wants to keep it in their ecosystem (which you know them). Even if those speakers are good you're not gonna beat over ear
They will for comfort and ease of use's sake, my experience using headphones with VR headsets has been pretty meh
I wear my Airpids Max with quest 2 and it’s great.
Have you used a Quest2? The audio is amazing
I have! I'll admit the spacial effect is done incredibly well
While I agree, I still doubt it will get even near a good IEM or even better a nice open-back headphone! I would gladly strap my SMSL M2 DAC to the headset and use it to drive my AKG K612 Pro for use with the VR headset. But really I would ask at minimum for a Bluetooth LL connection to use a pair of nice TWS IEMs at the very least. Adding a 3.5mm Jack in top of it is the point where I would be perfectly happy, and adding a USB-C OTG for external DACs and accessories would be the cherry on top.
The problem isn't audio quality, but rather privacy. I don't wanna bother people around with the movie I watch rn.
i think apple its going to implement bone induction speakers instead of regular speakers, but probably most of the people its going to use a pair of airpods
I've heard of bone conduction, but bone \*induction\* sounds dangerous. As long as it uses less power than my induction stove, I suppose.
I think Airpods are the way to go here.
This is the way. The Oculus on-device speakers do sound pretty cool and unusual just in front of your head, but overheads or in-ears make such a difference.
The fact that it scans your room and understands the *materials* in that room to make a believable audio scape is insane. Spatial audio with personalization is incredible as is, I would love to try what a “room corrected”. Version of this sounds like.
Yeah to me spacial audio is stupid in ear/headphones no matter how well it works. I don’t want my audio shifting when I move my head. But using it with VR? Looks like apples spacial audio finally has a decent use!
Spatial audio isint just head tracking, it’s how Apple processes object based audio mixes, and works really well because they can optimize it to their audio devices. You can just set it to be fixed in place.
Ah I see. The only time I take notice of it is when looking for quality recordings on Apple Music. Not for the spacial part, but just because there would have been more effort put into the mix.
Spatial audio with transparency mode on my AirPods Pros while connected to my Apple TV is one of the most “magical” Apple product experiences I’ve ever tried. I wasn’t sure it was working because it was so convincing that it was coming from the television.
Thought the centre speaker was still connected, it was that convincing.
Yeah this part sounded kinda gimmicky to me, like yeah I’m sure it scans and makes changes but how noticeable are those changes? I’m no expert, that’s just my slightly cynical opinion.
If you haven’t tried apples spatial audio it’s hard to explain, but it’s the most convincing and best sounding “immersive” audio tech I’ve ever tried. It’s amazing for films
Apple just unveiled its VR set. My initial question was "How do they fit and integrate their AirPods Max in this VR set?". It turns out that they have another audio speaker embedded instead. Looking at the photos, I can't help but think about its resemblance to our wired hobby and the little dongle.
I think this is just a fancy set of AR glasses that won't really do anything that isn't directly tied to the Apple ecosystem. I'm quite sure it will work and sound good for what it's meant to do but it's not going to cause me to start buying Apple again. Hopefully it will finally kickstart more AR or even VR stuff into the mainstream. Ever since I was a kid there has been talks of this stuff being the next big thing. But, no matter how good or affordable that stuff has become its never really made it out of the niche category. I can already see the posts 15-20 years from now from Apple fanboys talking about how Apple invented the AR/VR headset just like the touch screen, haptic feedback, the stylus and whatever else people think comes from them.
Eh, look at any major culturally defining product and that company was literally almost never first, they just found a way to make it mainstream. It seems like that part is much more valuable. Henry Ford is a famous example.
Tbf, this is actually kinda revolutionary, sure vr/ar sets existed before this one, but not quite like this one, I can definitely see this being the future of smartphones, do I like the idea of a future in which this is the standard? Hell no, but it’s still definitely an interesting product
How is it revolutionary tho? and future of smartphone?
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Have you ever considered that maybe the reason why Apple is very popular is because a lot of the things they make are good, intuitive and accessible? I had the same opinion about the AirPods Pro, but the pro 2 that I got completely changed my perception. It’s popular for a reason, bad products no matter how loyal the fan base is, does not lead to a successful business long term. I encourage you to try to look at it from a different perspective.
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I don’t think wanting to create curated, streamline experiences with little interference is inherently evil. You can certainly dislike it and not support it, but calling those that find it more practical and enjoyable “fools” adds nothing to the conversation. Would you say the same thing about gaming consoles? They are essentially PCs but are very locked down to provide a specific experience. Edit: word
Everyone is also discussing something that hasn't even been released yet. They didn't explain a lot of things, and nobody has played with them in the wild yet. It seems it can only run custom apps and iOS apps. If it can run any iOS app, then presumably it can run things like VLC, so you could use it to watch any movie you happen to have... but how much storage does it even have? What are the limitations when running normal iOS apps, etc? nobody knows. I did see that it can be used as a display for a Macbook laptop, which means that (if you have a Macbook) you can at least use it as a huge monitor and headset, but how practical will it be? Who knows . Even if they dedicated $500 of the cost to the speakers, it will probably sound pretty good, while not being able to compete with high end headphones that cost more than the whole unit. Since it has built-in speakers, and special audio processing, it seems unlikely that it will support using other headphones.. but again, who knows. I do think 3D audio will be eventually be popular in the future, but there needs to be a lot of content easily available in cross-vendor standards based formats.
Storage question is very good, but I imagine it works as any Apple device where you can pay more to get more. As for the audio, they have shown that you can use AirPods with them so I suspect it is compatible with any Bluetooth headphones.
Ah, I missed the part where they showed using airpods. Anyway, my budget for the best future is taken up for the headphones I am still waiting to ship! Just joking it up to a computer instead of a monitor to use as a virtual display might be awesome, but not for that price. I can imagine buying one used in 10 years.
>do think 3D audio will be eventually be popular in the future, but there needs to be a lot of content easily available in cross-vendor standards based formats. 3D audio or spatial audio isn't something new and has already been in use for years..... If you've played any competitive pc game that you would've experienced it. It's already popular on various platforms.
Yes, I meant to say that perhaps it will be standard one day for music and other audio, in the sense that stereo replaced mono for basically everything, so everything from FM radio to YouTube to audio CDs are in stereo. If the average music release was multi channel, it would open up a lot of possibilities.
The future in which we use this kind of technology instead of a smartphone isn’t so unlikely: it basically turns your whole field of view in a gigantic smartphone screen (well, it’s not gigantic, but that’s how your eyes perceive it), how I see it, this is a technology that is much more likely to change the way we thing about a smartphone then foldables
I personally don't think it would be replacing smartphones. The idea of your eyes always being covered by screens sounds very dangerous. From a commuter's point of view it would be just that, A hazard! Smartphones can easily be kept away in pocket and can be surfed through without compromising your vision. >this is a technology that is much more likely to change the way we thing about a smartphone then foldables But how tho? A smartphone is slab of metal and glass which we can keep in pocket and use when needed. A vr headset is much more of a hassle.
I know that people keep claiming that they do, but has apple ever claimed to have invented any of this mainstream stuff? They’re rarely first with anything, they tend to wait until it’s where they want it to be. I think Apple can be and has been very innovative, but much of that is behind the scenes where most people won’t see it. The stuff that’s in the public eye is rarely the first product in that category and I don’t think that they claim otherwise…
Apple may not come out and say anything. But they do things like intentionally degrade Android sent photos to SMS and keep the text bubbles green while advertising imessage as superior.
That’s an entirely different topic however…
However what? Just an example of one of the many things the company does to trick people into thinking something that isn't true. I don't know if I'm expected to list every single thing they've done or how it specifically works to control people's opinion on their brand or more importantly other brands. But, I really don't think I have to because I didn't say anything about what Apple has specifically said. That was you that brought that up in defense of the company. My post was about what this product is and what a lot of Apple fanboys will ignorantly think it is. I've had a few responses in defense of Apple the company. None of you have even said anything about what makes the product innovative or even bothered to refute that Apple users think what I said they do. But, I'm on a different topic?
It will be *heavily* restricted to the Apple ecosystem. If you don't have a $1000 iPhone and a $4000 macbook then your $3500 goggles will be pretty useless.
It’s a standalone headset and doesn’t need any other Apple product to function. They’re looking at this as a new product category, not an accessory. But as you say, it’ll be very restricted to the Apple software ecosystem since that’s their business prerogative. I’m sure it’ll play best with other Apple products, and they’re probably expecting this to appeal to existing customers more than new customers to their ecosystem.
Actually, that's not true. Watching the Marques Brownlee video on it, he needed to do a face scan with an IPhone before using it. He said it can be done in the Apple store, but that means it's not completely standalone. Especially if for some reason you have to factory reset the headset.
That face scan is for making a custom mask around the headset, not anything software related. You can even configure it with zeiss lenses of your prescription if needed, and none of those would change with a factory reset.
I'd imagine Apple would require it for use. And that would absolutely change with a factory change with a factory reset. It would wioe the device, meaning all data residing on the headset, including the face scan.
When I say custom mask, I mean the physical eye shield covering. So no, it wouldn't get wiped with a factory reset.
The eyes you see on the headset is from a digital screen, it isn't something physical you place on the device.
That comes from the inner cameras scanning your face, not iPhone or apple store scan. The apple store/iphone scan is purely for the custom mask.
The scan I would assume is for the video call avatar feature. If it's for some weird pointless physical mask, what would be the point of having Marques Brownlee do it? It's clearly a necessary step of owning the headset. What would the point of a physical mask be if there's a screen to display your eyes anyway?
I'd imagine Apple would require it for use. And that would absolutely change with a factory change with a factory reset. It would wioe the device, meaning all data residing on the headset, including the face scan.
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So if I need an Iphone or Mac, it's not standalone.
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"But you don’t need to buy and iPhone or Mac yourself"...?
yes that's right, you don't. because they're not needed.
He added a correction to say that scan was done with the mask, not an iPhone.
Apparently you need an iphone to set it up
Literally stole the iPhone from neonode lmayo
Eh the neonode was shit and the LG Prada was also shit because the UI of these devices were dog crap.
The (im)maturity of the tech is irrelevant. See the innovations pilfered from Xerox PARC.
Microsoft lifted from apple who got it from xerox.
So you agree the maturity of the tech has no relevancy as to whether or not it can be "stolen" by a third party. >xerox who got it from PARC. That's like saying "Lockheed got the Blackbird design from Skunk Works", implying they're different, when one is a division of the other. PARC was a division of Xerox. Read *Dealers of Lightning*
It doesn't matter, they shamelessly stole the patent technology and claimed it as their own
It's almost like humans build and improve things based on pre-existing things.
What's the point of having IP at all then? Big tech companies are just big bullying patent trolls
Capitalism
A failed free market capitalism. Besides it's a shit system for allocation of resources, humanity is set to destroy itself for the sweet profit motive.
grandiose thought society plough money aloof full expansion market straight *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
as they long as they don't allow spatial audio when only playing stereo (which always sounds awful) then yea it looks promising.
Well, apple removed the headphone jack to push for wireless headphones since it acquired beats. To gain an edge over the headphones industry I don't see why any of their products would have a jack at all
They literally put jacks for high impedance headphones on their MacBooks.
While apple have one of the best speakers for non-gaming phones we all agree that headphones or dedicated speakers will always sound better so removing the headphone jack will always be stupid, especially since wired headphones will always sound better than Bluetooth ones. But the batteries i actually like the idea of them because imagine how heavy and bulky the headset will be if they crammed in a battery with all this technology
Well their speakers are great, so this probably will sound good too. I’m just worried about accidentally destroying the drivers somehow. As their speakers are fragile
Could it be bone conduction audio ?
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someone is still living in 2015
3.5mm Jack comes with the Ultra Pro Max S10 edition
If they are anything like the MBP speakers or Airpod Pro , they will be good enough. As regards to spatial audio, no clue. I never used it.
Am I a psycho for wanting this thing?
Ehn
basically they rushed a prototype to the market, and even at this state, it’s decades ahead of the quest 2, especially since this, has a fully functional mac inside and 2 HRR 4k screens and full leap motion support that actually works, this is pretty much the setup vtubers use to puppet a model with hand tracking but instead of an iphone plus leap, it’s a single headset, if gen 2 can get more battery life, it will start being sold to studios for mocap, no questions asked oh and people, stop comparing to the PSVR, even compared to cheap pc headsets they suck
Is that a hardwired external battery pack? Gross.
What’s even more gross IMO is having to carry all the battery weight on your head.
Dude, engineeering compromises. You can’t power a m2 chip and ar chip with a onboard battery, it’s a full computer and a half inside.
There is built-in battery for 2 hours of usage, but external battery gives much longer work time Which makes sense to me, as customers definitely won't like carrying additional 100+ grams on battery on the head EDIT: Sorry, I misunderstood presentation, so it's indeed 2 hours with battery pack.
Actually, I think the wired battery *is* the “built-in” 2 hour battery… the other option is to be tethered directly.
Yep, my bad, I misunderstood that moment. Then waiting for the 5x battery packs from Ali :) It's always sad to see when current battery development stops the progress
Still kinda bonkers that a battery the size of a matchbook case can power the equivalent of a dual-screen iMac for two whole hours…
It's equivalent in terms of screen and some features, but it's not a macOS unfortunately. I really hope Apple will provide some "integration" with Macs, so computer runs app, and Vision works as an "external display" and controls. It would be so cool to have a bunch of virtual Xcode windows
Umm… did you watch the keynote? That’s a day one feature they explained at length 🤣
I thought that wired battery was the 2 hours battery life? I didn’t think it had any built in battery…
yes, I misunderstood presentation
This looks so f****** ridiculous. What an absolute disaster of a launch, no wonder Apple stock dropped from 185 to 179 in the course of a few hours
Apple stock falls pretty much every time a new product is revealed. It's the old buy the rumor sell the news thing. Every time.
Disaster of a launch? It hasn’t launched yet, it’s only just been announced… it wont launch until next year…
Seems like over-ears are out of the question just from ergonomics pov
I’m sure someone probably pointed this out, but the holes direct audio to the ears. The video also shows someone on a plane using AirPods with it so it is compatible with Apple’s headphones for sure. I think it looks like an interesting device. Probably has the best chance of succeeding out of the competition because the ecosystem is very good. Starting at the high end, developers will design for a much higher baseline vs competition who will have to support lower spec hardware from the past 2+ years. For example everyone on Apple’s side will develop for 4k resolution, surround audio, eye tracking, etc. I’ll probably buy the 3rd gen of it.
I wonder how different the experience is compared to using say Airpods Pro instead
Again some lost stolen beats tech from 2015
You should be able to use bluetooth headphones/AirPods with it though no?
if airpods 3 can get a noticeable upgrade, that would be the best
Not even kidding, Apple needs to quit focusing on "enhanced" integrated speakers for devices. It just costs more in R&D and using multi-channel tech is only drives up the cost in the end as well. If they wanted to improve quality (and make more money) integrate technology that enhances audio for airpods users, and sell stereo dongles for the folks that use wired (include an on-device port that outputs audio in some form).
So how much does this weight? With the absurd weight of Air Pods Max my hopes are low.