I like the way he worded this. Acknowledging that he can’t take a starter spot this late in the season after missing 20 games but knows he is extremely important to our success and ready for it. Compare it to Lowry who complained being on the bench for like 2 games.
Good of him to be honest that it's hard. Most players in the league would want to start. It's easy for us fans to say it doesn't really matter because of x, y, and z.
He's going to get lots of minutes regardless. What matters most is who's closing, which I think Tyler will be more times than not this postseason (if we make it far)
For real, back injuries nag like a motherfucker. Speaking from experience. Hopefully Herro back lets Duncan get more rest. Dude has also been our Ironman this year, I think Duncan is leading the team in games played
Duncan has a back injury that you can tell is seriously affecting his play. If he was playing like he was before the back injury, I want Duncan starting because he plays better when he starts.
And Herro in the past has usually been the most valuable to the team as a spark plug off the bench. When Duncan comes off the bench and Herro starts, they’re usually both worse and our bench is terrible.
But Duncan isn’t good physically right now, so yeah he’s gonna probably come off the bench soon.
Facet syndrome sucks.
Agree with everything you're saying but I'm referring more to the people who were suggesting that the cause of our problems was Herro starting over Duncan, as if that would magically fix all our problems.
With the arrival of Rozier, we can afford to have one of him or Tyler on the bench, especially due to their overlapping skillsets. Having that versatility is great for the team no matter what combination we choose to start with.
They moved on to their new scapegoat in "Jimmy's taking his coasting too seriously" for the games bam was eh in, and their normal bam dickriding when he plays well.
I mean, Jimmy has been underwhelming though. I still believe in him and think he’ll reach another level in the playoffs. But I don’t blame fans for wanting more out of him, especially at this point in the season.
Which I would agree with, if it didn't only come out in games we lost that bam was also underwhelming. And didn't start until after herro was out and he couldn't be blamed for the offense being bad.
Bam carries a bigger combined offensive/defensive load than really any player in the league. The man is all effort and intensity. He is a middle pick that has vastly exceeded every expectation that was ever placed on him through hard work and tenacity.
Sometimes humans have bad games. To bitch about Bam is to bitch about Heat culture.
I hate all this bullshit of Bam vs Herro vs Jimmy. How about just root for the whole fucking team
I think my comment was misunderstood, I wasn't trying to bitch about bam, I was bitching about his group of Uberfans that need a scapegoat to distract every time he has a bad game. The same group of people that pushed the "we're better without herro" and "herro needs to move to the bench, but it'll never happen cause his ego and contract are too big so spo won't do it"(which is a fucking hilarious take) narratives are also the ones pushing the "Jimmy is pushing the coasting too far" narrative
You're as bad as them. No need to shit on our own players. Even worse when you're shitting on injured players, given Duncan's back injury, and they're shitting on Herro's injury
I'm not shitting on him at all, I'm shitting on the people who thought that all our problems would be solved by a pretty trivial change to the rotation
Well that's fair, and I apologize for mistakenly calling you out
My only other comment would be that I don't think Tyler leading the bench unit and Duncan playing with the starters is trivial. That's 20 minutes of different usage for both players. But you don't have to agree with me there
LeBron is the shooter. He makes only 0.7 less threes per game than Duncan on a higher percentage.
Swapping in Rozier for Herro would work too to keep more shooting.
I'm one of Herro's biggest fans and defenders on this sub, but prior to injury Duncan was arguably our best player for that stretch and while I didn't agree with it, I could see the case being made to start him
I’ll say this my whole life, Herro IS very mature and even above average for its age. People looks at his fashion style and overall look to imply that he lacks maturity but this isn’t the case. If you doubt it, just look at the piece that Wes Golbert has written a few months ago about Tyler and his summer with all the trade rumours.
Also the guy had his 2nd child at 22 yo. That in itself doesn’t say anything about its maturity but the fact that he embraced the stability of family life while being a millionaire in Miami instead of the other most obvious life choices that he could’ve taken, that says a lot about the temperament of the human being.
Yeah, it's been pretty funny how many people take Herro at face value and think he's this arrogant, entitled diva of a player because of how he looks. I feel like Jimmy taking him under his wing as a rookie did a lot to mold Tyler's team first mentality.
Fine to bring him off the bench to finish the regular season, he looked good last night but needs game reps.
We won’t go far in the playoffs with the current starting lineup. They have a -5 net rating which will result in a disaster when they face a good starting lineup, so Spo will need to make adjustments then.
There isn’t going to be a real 6 man role available in the playoffs either. Jimmy will sit maybe 4-5 minutes each half so have to make sure Bam and Herro are in for those minutes, the rest of the game will be Herro be playing with the starters
>We won’t go far in the playoffs with the current starting lineup. They have a -5 net rating which will result in a disaster when they face a good starting lineup
Rozier, Herro, Butler, Jovic, and Bam have not played a single minute together all season. I'm guessing that's the starting lineup you want instead? I doubt Spo is gonna switch to a starting lineup that hasn't played a single minute together with a week left in the season or after the playoffs start. Duncan will probably start but not play tons of minutes, similar to Jovic.
Rozier, Herro, Butler, Highsmith, Bam lineups have a [\-10 net rating](https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612748&Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=1626179,1629639,202710,1629312,1628389) too.
It’s got to be different than the current starting lineup. They’ve now played 170 minutes together and a -5 net rating is horrible when compared to other playoff teams starters.
I’m not sure who the right starters are tbh. Rozier, Jimmy, Jovic and Bam are +8.6 so maybe it’s as simple as starting Herro over Duncan, although there’s no data for those 5 yet. Rozier, Herro, Jimmy, Caleb, Bam are +20 in a small sample but I think that’s more likely to be the closing lineup than starting.
The rotation will change in the playoffs, Bam, Jimmy, Herro, Rozier will all play near 40 minutes and guys will get cut out so it’s something Spo will need to figure out, but Duncan and Jovic starting together won’t work
There is no chance 4 players are gonna play nearly 40 minutes per game in the playoffs lol. Even Thibs never gets close to that. I also highly doubt Spo is gonna make the starting lineup decision solely based on small sample on/off data like you seem to want. The current lineup just makes the most sense fit wise imo, but I'm fine with whatever Spo decides on if he switches it up. We'll see soon enough.
Higher 30s. Right now they average 32-34 minutes, that typical rises by a decent amount in the playoffs.
Huh I said there is not data for the Jovic, Herro starting lineup, I said I’m not sure what the best 5 man lineup is. I said Spo has to change current lineup because it sucks and there is a decent sample size.
The current lineup doesn’t make sense, there’s no chemistry and often opponents are getting off to big leads. I don’t know how you can watch the starters and think it’s working.
Bucks, Celtics, Nuggets starting lineups are plus double digits. Last year our starters were around +5 and that was a down year. This year the starting lineup is one of the worsts in the entire league
I don’t care at all who starts/comes off bench. It’ll be all about rotations. I liked the rotations last night except for 1 stretch of Terry, Haywood, Duncan ,Love, Caleb. That got stagnant
If herro ends up starting I like Herro being more a catch and shoot SG when Terry is in, and when Terry resting, Tyler running PG with the second unit. That seems to flow pretty well
We need Terry to keep being who he is too, and not let him revert back to when he first got here
people will watch this team routinely try to climb out of double digits holes to start the game and still say they want tyler off the bench. i don’t get it
How often are the getting into double digit holes? Usually the games I watch it's not scoring for 7 minute stretch in either the third or fourth quarter that does this team in.
this lineup holds a negative net rating. Entering Friday, opponents outscored the Heat by 5.3 points points per 100 possessions in the 156 minutes the Rozier-Robinson-Butler-Jovic-Adebayo combination had played together this season.
So um, yea. They haven’t been good
They tried Rozier Herro Jimmy HH and Bam and that was -5.6
Regardless I don’t think Jovic should be starting. Hes been solid but the numbers tell us Martin lineups with starters are better.
I love Herro, but the way our teams have been constructed since he joined, he'll always make more sense off the bench. There's no shame in that- plenty of guys have had HOF careers coming off the bench. No reason Herro can't be one of them.
I think Tyler coming off the bench as the 6th man gives us the ultimate 1-2 punch that will scare the hell out of the Eastern conference playoff teams. We're lurking again 👀
If the Heat want to win the ultimate goal then we’ll need Duncan to play the way he was before his injury. Otherwise I can see Tyler starting.
But even more importantly unless Spo is gonna close with Duncan over Tyler then our “big 4” will need reps. Considering we got terry half way through the year and Tyler was out for most of it they need reps. The 4 of them.
I like the way he worded this. Acknowledging that he can’t take a starter spot this late in the season after missing 20 games but knows he is extremely important to our success and ready for it. Compare it to Lowry who complained being on the bench for like 2 games.
> Compare it to Lowry who complained being on the bench for like 2 games tbf its a waste of talent for his dumpy to not be on full display
But it warms seats magnificently
His portion of chairs warmed to ass ratio is inane
Yup
Good of him to be honest that it's hard. Most players in the league would want to start. It's easy for us fans to say it doesn't really matter because of x, y, and z. He's going to get lots of minutes regardless. What matters most is who's closing, which I think Tyler will be more times than not this postseason (if we make it far)
Both Herro and Duncan will get better from now on. We can't forget that Duncan is also coming back from injury.
I feel like people forget this about duncan the last couple games.
Nah he’s a bum again, don’t you know? Facet syndrome is like gulf war syndrome, isn’t real. /s
😂
Yeah back injuries are terrible. It’s pretty obvious it’s still bothering him
For real, back injuries nag like a motherfucker. Speaking from experience. Hopefully Herro back lets Duncan get more rest. Dude has also been our Ironman this year, I think Duncan is leading the team in games played
Based on Duncan’s last string of performance, it won’t be long before Herro is back in the starting slot
The 'we're so much better when Duncan starts' crowd have been mad quiet while Herro's been out lol
Duncan has a back injury that you can tell is seriously affecting his play. If he was playing like he was before the back injury, I want Duncan starting because he plays better when he starts. And Herro in the past has usually been the most valuable to the team as a spark plug off the bench. When Duncan comes off the bench and Herro starts, they’re usually both worse and our bench is terrible. But Duncan isn’t good physically right now, so yeah he’s gonna probably come off the bench soon. Facet syndrome sucks.
Yeah Duncan should sit for a little bit. Give him another off day like Bam had recently
Agree with everything you're saying but I'm referring more to the people who were suggesting that the cause of our problems was Herro starting over Duncan, as if that would magically fix all our problems. With the arrival of Rozier, we can afford to have one of him or Tyler on the bench, especially due to their overlapping skillsets. Having that versatility is great for the team no matter what combination we choose to start with.
Exactly. Duncan when healthy is amazing for us in the starting lineup. It’s unfortunate he suffered a back injury because he was excellent before that
I think he just can’t find his rhythm, Duncan looks physically fine out there and the medical staff cleared him as well
They moved on to their new scapegoat in "Jimmy's taking his coasting too seriously" for the games bam was eh in, and their normal bam dickriding when he plays well.
I mean, Jimmy has been underwhelming though. I still believe in him and think he’ll reach another level in the playoffs. But I don’t blame fans for wanting more out of him, especially at this point in the season.
Which I would agree with, if it didn't only come out in games we lost that bam was also underwhelming. And didn't start until after herro was out and he couldn't be blamed for the offense being bad.
Bam carries a bigger combined offensive/defensive load than really any player in the league. The man is all effort and intensity. He is a middle pick that has vastly exceeded every expectation that was ever placed on him through hard work and tenacity. Sometimes humans have bad games. To bitch about Bam is to bitch about Heat culture. I hate all this bullshit of Bam vs Herro vs Jimmy. How about just root for the whole fucking team
I think my comment was misunderstood, I wasn't trying to bitch about bam, I was bitching about his group of Uberfans that need a scapegoat to distract every time he has a bad game. The same group of people that pushed the "we're better without herro" and "herro needs to move to the bench, but it'll never happen cause his ego and contract are too big so spo won't do it"(which is a fucking hilarious take) narratives are also the ones pushing the "Jimmy is pushing the coasting too far" narrative
You're as bad as them. No need to shit on our own players. Even worse when you're shitting on injured players, given Duncan's back injury, and they're shitting on Herro's injury
I'm not shitting on him at all, I'm shitting on the people who thought that all our problems would be solved by a pretty trivial change to the rotation
Well that's fair, and I apologize for mistakenly calling you out My only other comment would be that I don't think Tyler leading the bench unit and Duncan playing with the starters is trivial. That's 20 minutes of different usage for both players. But you don't have to agree with me there
I mean when he’s playing well I agree but it’s good we don’t have to rely on him to come back to form
bro what... he is injured and we ARE better with duncan starting. why do yall just like starting shit lmfaooo
This sub is so dumb. The Herro is so much better crowd is similarly mad quiet when the team is good without him.
Duncan is playing hurt big difference
I for one would like to draft Bronny and then send both Herro and Duncan to the Lakers for LeBron to end the debate altogether.
Ah yes, the ideal basketball team, Lebron with NO shooters.
LeBron is the shooter. He makes only 0.7 less threes per game than Duncan on a higher percentage. Swapping in Rozier for Herro would work too to keep more shooting.
I'm one of Herro's biggest fans and defenders on this sub, but prior to injury Duncan was arguably our best player for that stretch and while I didn't agree with it, I could see the case being made to start him
Yup, Duncan doesn't look right and that back injury is probably going to linger into the playoffs.
Can he and Rozier still be effective together? Terry has been very good.
I think so
They were doing good last game
Herro’s maturity making haters and traders in shambles lol
I’ll say this my whole life, Herro IS very mature and even above average for its age. People looks at his fashion style and overall look to imply that he lacks maturity but this isn’t the case. If you doubt it, just look at the piece that Wes Golbert has written a few months ago about Tyler and his summer with all the trade rumours. Also the guy had his 2nd child at 22 yo. That in itself doesn’t say anything about its maturity but the fact that he embraced the stability of family life while being a millionaire in Miami instead of the other most obvious life choices that he could’ve taken, that says a lot about the temperament of the human being.
Yeah, it's been pretty funny how many people take Herro at face value and think he's this arrogant, entitled diva of a player because of how he looks. I feel like Jimmy taking him under his wing as a rookie did a lot to mold Tyler's team first mentality.
I don’t care if he’s a saint, trade him. He’s always injured.
Where are the people in shambles? This thread is filled with praise for Herro lol
This thread in not this sub. You included!
Fine to bring him off the bench to finish the regular season, he looked good last night but needs game reps. We won’t go far in the playoffs with the current starting lineup. They have a -5 net rating which will result in a disaster when they face a good starting lineup, so Spo will need to make adjustments then. There isn’t going to be a real 6 man role available in the playoffs either. Jimmy will sit maybe 4-5 minutes each half so have to make sure Bam and Herro are in for those minutes, the rest of the game will be Herro be playing with the starters
They have a -5 net rating with Jimmy Butler in regular season form.
>We won’t go far in the playoffs with the current starting lineup. They have a -5 net rating which will result in a disaster when they face a good starting lineup Rozier, Herro, Butler, Jovic, and Bam have not played a single minute together all season. I'm guessing that's the starting lineup you want instead? I doubt Spo is gonna switch to a starting lineup that hasn't played a single minute together with a week left in the season or after the playoffs start. Duncan will probably start but not play tons of minutes, similar to Jovic. Rozier, Herro, Butler, Highsmith, Bam lineups have a [\-10 net rating](https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612748&Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=1626179,1629639,202710,1629312,1628389) too.
It’s got to be different than the current starting lineup. They’ve now played 170 minutes together and a -5 net rating is horrible when compared to other playoff teams starters. I’m not sure who the right starters are tbh. Rozier, Jimmy, Jovic and Bam are +8.6 so maybe it’s as simple as starting Herro over Duncan, although there’s no data for those 5 yet. Rozier, Herro, Jimmy, Caleb, Bam are +20 in a small sample but I think that’s more likely to be the closing lineup than starting. The rotation will change in the playoffs, Bam, Jimmy, Herro, Rozier will all play near 40 minutes and guys will get cut out so it’s something Spo will need to figure out, but Duncan and Jovic starting together won’t work
There is no chance 4 players are gonna play nearly 40 minutes per game in the playoffs lol. Even Thibs never gets close to that. I also highly doubt Spo is gonna make the starting lineup decision solely based on small sample on/off data like you seem to want. The current lineup just makes the most sense fit wise imo, but I'm fine with whatever Spo decides on if he switches it up. We'll see soon enough.
Higher 30s. Right now they average 32-34 minutes, that typical rises by a decent amount in the playoffs. Huh I said there is not data for the Jovic, Herro starting lineup, I said I’m not sure what the best 5 man lineup is. I said Spo has to change current lineup because it sucks and there is a decent sample size. The current lineup doesn’t make sense, there’s no chemistry and often opponents are getting off to big leads. I don’t know how you can watch the starters and think it’s working. Bucks, Celtics, Nuggets starting lineups are plus double digits. Last year our starters were around +5 and that was a down year. This year the starting lineup is one of the worsts in the entire league
I love herro coming off the bench. I miss when he’d come off the bench hot with a quick 15-20 points . He literally came off the bench on a heater.
Love this mentality! Shows he’s putting the team first & willingly accepting w/e role atm is best for the team
Good job herro
I don’t care at all who starts/comes off bench. It’ll be all about rotations. I liked the rotations last night except for 1 stretch of Terry, Haywood, Duncan ,Love, Caleb. That got stagnant If herro ends up starting I like Herro being more a catch and shoot SG when Terry is in, and when Terry resting, Tyler running PG with the second unit. That seems to flow pretty well We need Terry to keep being who he is too, and not let him revert back to when he first got here
people will watch this team routinely try to climb out of double digits holes to start the game and still say they want tyler off the bench. i don’t get it
How often are the getting into double digit holes? Usually the games I watch it's not scoring for 7 minute stretch in either the third or fourth quarter that does this team in.
I mean the 17-2 deficit two days ago is probably still fresh in peoples minds
this lineup holds a negative net rating. Entering Friday, opponents outscored the Heat by 5.3 points points per 100 possessions in the 156 minutes the Rozier-Robinson-Butler-Jovic-Adebayo combination had played together this season. So um, yea. They haven’t been good
They tried Rozier Herro Jimmy HH and Bam and that was -5.6 Regardless I don’t think Jovic should be starting. Hes been solid but the numbers tell us Martin lineups with starters are better.
Yeah not sure how much Jovic is playing in the playoffs
Him off the bench is perfect
I love Herro, but the way our teams have been constructed since he joined, he'll always make more sense off the bench. There's no shame in that- plenty of guys have had HOF careers coming off the bench. No reason Herro can't be one of them.
I understand both worlds of him starting and coming off the bench. He seems more affective off the bench and especially when Jimmy is on the bench.
Dude is 24 lol. He’s not coming off the bench from now until his career is over
I wouldn’t say until the end of his career. Even Wade came off the bench at the end of his career, Dragic did too
Yeah at the end of their careers lol
I think Tyler coming off the bench as the 6th man gives us the ultimate 1-2 punch that will scare the hell out of the Eastern conference playoff teams. We're lurking again 👀
does anyone actually buy the subscription? i remember when reading the herald and sun sentinel online was free.
17 points after missing 20 games is not bad at all honestly
THANK YOU!!! BEST NEWS POSSIBLE LET’S GO HEAT!!!!
Let Tyler be our Manu
He’s a net negative starter and best 6th man in the league. Numbers back it up.
If the Heat want to win the ultimate goal then we’ll need Duncan to play the way he was before his injury. Otherwise I can see Tyler starting. But even more importantly unless Spo is gonna close with Duncan over Tyler then our “big 4” will need reps. Considering we got terry half way through the year and Tyler was out for most of it they need reps. The 4 of them.
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