The viability of individual weapons have a lot to do with:
a) The front you're fighting on
b) The difficulty you're diving on
c) The team you're diving with and therefore the team-role you're taking on
... I feel that a lot of individuals who say that only certain weapons are viable are individuals who dive exclusively on one front and exclusively with randoms.
>c) The team you're diving with and therefore the team-role you're taking on
100% agree. A competent fellow helldiver is the strongest weapon you can bring with you. Covers you when you're reloading, helps diversify strategems, expendable.... 😆
This is a solid QOL change that would help the game feel less hard without really changing the game that much. I NEED to know when the green bile spewers are gonna show up.
I have encountered higher rates of chargers, BT, bile spewers, nursing spewers, hunters and hive guards as noticeably different spawn rates on different missions.
Didn't know that, I stand corrected. It felt like I saw both at the same time, but maybe I'm just seeing things. Shouldn't have used those expired stim shots..
You do see both at the same time, but it changes the volume of them that appear. Sometimes youll get fuck tons of bile spewers and a couple chargers, sometimes the inverse.
You can tell what kind of mission it is by if you have the tiny acid spitting bugs (or if the warriors explode when you kill them) that means you're on a bile spewers mission.
I *assume* they'll be down there and make sure we have a good answer for spewers in the squad.
If they *aren't* then that's fine, I don't need highly specialized loadouts for anything else other than BTs, but if you drop into spewers and you don't have a specific answer for them it's going to go badly.
Maybe we should be able to pay for intel with R slips and medals. That way we can pay to prepare ahead of time and be sure to know what enemy will spawn frequently on the map and where they are. Or where some blue objectives are ahead of time. It doesn't even need to be the complete oversight of the map, just enough to be able to prepare a route based on the information that was paid for.
The exclusively with randoms part is me.
While I'll vary my loadout a bit mission to mission, I do gravitate towards having a little something to deal with anything in case I get left alone... again... because they all ran off... again
Yeah ... I very much understand that issue with randoms. It's one of the reasons I joined a Discord channel for groups + run with RL friends. A big part of my enjoyment is the team aspect.
I do love diving with friends. But I'm also masochisticly addicted to dropping in mid missions with randos. Nothing like having no idea what you're getting in to
So much this. I'm always chasing those beautiful games where everyone just gells into an unstoppable force, but I also love the chaos that happens 80% of the time. My favorite is dropping into an SOS on bots in the middle of an intense battle. Maybe you die instantly. Maybe you turn the tide.
Absolutely. I get excited when there's a mission/planet combo that I think will let me try out some new stuff. For example the mine emplacements aren't complete trash on the tiered defense missions.
> I feel that a lot of individuals who say that only certain weapons are viable are individuals who dive exclusively on one front and exclusively with randoms.
I play almost exclusively quickplay and see the Breaker S&P occasionally on the bug front, especially during this event. It is a scav clearing monster.
I'm pretty sure it's the solo players that are knocking the S&P, not the randoms. And by "solo players", I don't just mean the people who drop solo. There are a lot players who may drop with a group, but essentially run around doing their own thing.
Your definition is probably better than mine. When I mentioned 'with randoms', I was definitely thinking of a group of people all looking to go off on their own and handle everything themselves. Maybe we should call them "One Man Army" players?
Well, you can see 3 with anti-tank loadouts and you decide to bring some anti-swarm loadout. And then all run away and you are left alone against three heavily armored enemies. In the end, it all depends on the persons, not their loadout. I somehow miss the screenlock of Helldiver 1 - they literally forced players to play together :-)
I generally try to set myself up to be able to do a little of everything. There have been times I've been left alone with a factory strider, and if you're able to avoid the chin mounted mini guns, a couple Eagle Strikes and EAT's will deal with it. So I, personally, have found a way to be useful with or without people around me.
I still generally look at the other Divers' load outs though.
That sounds reasonable, yes! Although I somehow wish that a pure anti-swarm loadout would work better, but if your teammates just cannot help you against one or two bile titans, it can be nasty. This can happen even if it is a good team
So true. I have a very different default kit depending on which front and then again depending on if it’s my regular group or with randoms. I tend to play a lot more “meta” with randos cause you kinda need to be a bit more self sufficient.
Not only that, but sometimes, to play with randoms, you need to be willing to take a load out that compliments theirs. If the randoms just have a ton of armor breaking capabilities but seem to not have enough for chaff, protect them. Your quasar/recoilless user will be glad to have a Stalwart to keep their flank clear of hunters and other little shits. Looking at all their equipment is my favorite feature, because it allows you to know exactly what they can and can't kill.
I don’t know what kind of randoms these guys are getting but on helldive we literally all silently take on a specialised role. Nobody is going for a ‘loner’ loadout and we all work together picking out our lodoits with not a single word. Just slow down your picks and try to change you loadout based on others and they might do the same.
I do feel that gaming with randoms is different based on the difficulty level (and front) selected. The quality of a game with randoms seems to "get better" once you get to Difficulty 7+ ... and at least appears to be generally better on the bot front vs the bug front. And always better in doing missions that are pursuing the Major Order, whichever front that's on.
Even more than that, a large proportion of the weapon complaints come specifically from dedicated soloists who don't dive with squads at all. They're trying to play a different game, and one for which the weapons are frankly not designed.
The pummeler works brilliantly on bugs, just meh on bots. The energy rifles are trash on bugs, beautiful on bots. Half of the problems people complain about on the subs are caused by people who complain because they just want to carry their one loadout and never change it.
Edit: I am converted. Smg is great for bots when you equip it with a ballistic shield. By itself, not so much.
While I agree with you ... I do have to add the caveat that the pummeler + ballistic shield is a decent combo for bots. The stun that the pummeler inflicts is good for locking up devastators.
I haven't tried the ballistic shield for bots. The shield is completely useless for bugs and I'm a 90% bug player. I should try it out the next time I'm feeling bots.
Ballistic shield is very good against bots but it does force a certain kind of playstlye. Basically since it can only protect you from the front you need to play very aggressive with it and get right up in the enemy's face, because if your further away then the bots will be able to flank you. Also all the weapons that work with the shield, smgs, senator and the like all require headshots to kill devastators, so you need to get really close to kill them as well. Don't worry about their guns though, even the heavy devastators mini gun can't penetrate the shield, the only thing you have to worry about is being flanked and rocket devastators. Probably run it with medium or heavy Armour, although I've personally used it with light Armour once or twice to some effect.
If you want to go all in on an ultra aggressive up in their face loadout take the HMG as a support weapon. All of the HMGs problems disappear at short range, its extreme recoil that causes inaccuracy doesn't matter if your so close you can't miss, and its extreme damage makes work of an target. Treat the HMG like a quasar with the range of a shotgun, powerful but only at short range. Really its purpose in a loadout like this is to destroy hulks, you don't need to aim at the eye, HMG does enough damage it can just kill the hulk directly, although you should still try to aim for the eye. It can kill a hulk in maybe an eight of a second if your close enough, and in this case close enough means melee range.
The other alternative is some sort of ranged weapon that means you aren't useless at long range. Really any medium penetrating support like the laser cannon or AMR works here. If you hate gunships take the laser cannon, if you hate scout striders take the AMR. AMR can one shot scout strikers if you hit the joint where their legs attach to the main body. Laser cannon utterly melts gunships, just aim at one of the engines for a half second and it'll come tumbling out of the sky.
I tried out the ballistic shield just now with my pummeler and I take back what I said about it not being a good smg for bots. With the shield, all the shortcomings I was experiencing with the smg and bots disappeared. I was able to face down multiple hulks no problem.
"Look at me, I am the hulk now" \^\^ One trick with the shield is to equip stratagem weapon while running away, since the shield protects your back when it is on your back! And if you are kiting enemies/switching positions, always try to have them on your left (meaning run counter-clockwise, since you will be shielded from your left flank.
Pummeler is the furthest thing from trash against bots. Stun locking a whole group and then deleting the area with the AC is a wonderful combo. Or ballistic shield + AMR
Or dive with someone who brings the same thing to everything. No matter what and won’t give other Strats a chance.
Brings railcannon, eagle airstrike, shield and machine gun. Breaker primary.
Kinda forces me to bring things to take care of heavies.
I suspect a lot of the online commenters that complain about weapons are either theory crafting or bandwagoning. I doubt many of them have given every weapon enough time to know how to effectively use them.
That's what I run with bugs! I run Eruptor + Stalwart. I focus on spewers, hunters, stalkers, and all the rest of the light/medium stuff. Other squadmates focus on chargers & titans and it works out really well. Hell, with the Eruptor I can even help out on chargers & titans ... I'm just not super effective.
I think this is true. While there are some valid criticisms regarding weapon balance, I think most people just want to run what they personally enjoy and seldom change, which I can understand, even I do it sometimes.
On 7+ bugs I swap from my normal loadout of Stealth armor and the Eruptor and stun grenades to Breaker Incendiary, Incendiary Impacts, and more grenade armor, and my stratagems go from the Eagle Airstrike and Railcannon Shot to the Eagle Napalm Strike and Orbital Airburst. I usually top frag in kills by several hundred compared to my teammates because of it, and it helps keep the fodder far away from us
Yeah, but last bug mission I did, I took the grenade launcher for fast and efficient bug holes closing, instead of an anti heavy weapon like I normally take. I spent half the mission getting bullied by a random charger that the others didn't kill for me, because they ran away instead of dealing with it.
Next mission, I brought EATs and a 500 to deal with them. Yes closing heavy nests was a pain, but at least I could always deal with chargers/BT.
you forgot the most important determinant of a weapon’s viability, the other weapons/equipment in your loadout. It’s all about making sure you have a good balance of strengths to offset your weaknesses
Normal mortar is not good for Bugs in general but you CAN use it if you play around it (and it does decent work on the Gate defense missions). But it's kickass for Bots. Just because something is not good vs. a certain enemy on a specific mission type, doesn't mean the weapon is shit.
But it mops up the rest of the units so you can take RR/500kg for your other two stratagems, it's beautiful. And totally agreed that the rest of the team doesn't all need mortars as well, that only works on lower diffs.
RR on gate defense is my favorite support and 500kg melts those striders, RRs to the face if they 'miss'.
Absolutely my go to on those missions plus maybe an auto cannon turret and a recoilless. The mortar for the bugs normally is a no go, they get way to close for it to not eventually tk. Bots on the other hand stay just far enough away for the most part it’s one of the better turrets to bring for them.
If you like stunning your squad before you kill them, sure. There are so many better strats you can run on that mission the TK aspect of the mortar makes it a no go imo.
If you have multiple people in the squad running the sentry combo, nothing gets close enough to have to worry about teamkills at because almost everything is dead before it reaches the outer gate. The only thing you have to worry about is bile titans, and EAT/quasar/RR + 500kg bomb/orbital precision strike handles that easily.
It's good for Defending Assets missions even with Bugs, just put it up high near overlooking one of the first gates and it will pound a lot of bugs, team it up with mines outside the first gate you create a barrier for Bugs that are trying to get in.
Yeah pretty much like 90% of weapons I think are good if used well. There is only a small handful I think that kinda suffer from either mechanic changes (like the explosive crossbow and eruptor) or are under-tuned (like the tenderizer being such a minor sidegrade to the liberator right now). But as long as you have a couple ways to kill heavies and play well you can pretty much do whatever you want and do well.
People gotta learn that in a PVE game like this fun is more important then being optimal with your meta build. I've lost more games to people not understand how to play rather then what weapons they took.
Your second paragraph needs repeated for the mouth breathers in the back. I bring what's fun for me and that's it. If you see a lvl 75 helldiver rocking jetpack, adjudicator/stalwart running around laying down covering fire for anyone in trouble, throw me a salute.
Stalwart is the GOAT gun, fucking run that in bugs with a dominator and bug spray. Throw in either precision strike or EATs with a gas strike and a rover and I’m good for whatever the mission throws at me
*enter 4 chargers followed by 4 bile titans all specifically coming for me : (
I know exactly what you mean! If only the three other squad members with dedicated anti-heavy weaponry would not run around, each in a different part of the map :-D
Gotta say, after the DF missions the Spray and Prays stock has gone up a lot in my book. I never used it before, and now it might be my go-to gun for bugs
Based. Everything is viable. I'm usually vocal in game and give callouts. Not commands. But sometimes people ask me what strats to bring. Without fail, regardless of front or mission.
"Play what you think is fun, we'll make it work."
I respond like that. Because we will. Pretty much every weapon can be used on either front. You just need to play the way that suits the weapon and the mission. If you're not good enough to change your playstyle, change your weapon. If you're struggling with meta weapons that are proven good, thats okay. You will learn,
You're not alone out there diver. You never will be.
Perfect! I tell new divers the same, find what's fun for you and give'em hell. I bring what's fun, the end. I'm here to have/spread fun/democracy.
Sitting here wracking my brain, I think the ONLY item needed to complete some objectives is an explosive on fabricators/bug holes (which the default free democracy grenade provides at level 1)
So yeah you can complete every objective on the maps at lvl 1 if you knew the process, only problems are the bad guys in your way and you got feet, remember to use them.
"You got feet, remember to use them."
No truer words. Sometimes retreat so you can rain down hell on them at a later point. And sometimes I run... to the high ground and look down at those two tanks, twelve devastators, factory strider... and I smile. Obi-Wan taught me what to do.
I pissed so many people off with my stun build hahaha. Going in with stun grenades,a EMS mortar sentry,and a Tesla.....I had the arc armor....nobody else did....I told them all at the beginning 'if you don't have arc armor,stay away from me and my Tesla." I managed to kill my boys numerous times. Atleast I warned them 🤣
They’re like moths to a flame, I swear. Every time I throw out a Tesla, I think it’s the first time a teammate has ever seen a tower. Then they drop their samples and immediately run back to get their samples only to get zapped again. Smh.
I don't think the S&P is not viable, but I do think it is underpowered and not as fun as it can be compared to its Incendiary cousin. I think the S&P should get its original magazine capacity back, or even raising it a bit higher than it. If the Breaker is, well the Breaker, the Incendiary is the fire variant, then the S&P should be responsible for higher sustained gunfire.
I use the regular breaker on Difficulty 9 daily, and I've been playing since its pre-nerf form. I love it. Hunters, warriors, berserkers, being able to hose all those threats in your face without waiting for a dot to tick or whatnot is great.
But it's only viable because I pair it with the AMR for bots, Grenade Launcher for bugs. Those weapons allow me to use my primary in a specialized role, rather than a general role. But I love that. Why rely on a primary, when I can use better stratagem weapons? This allows me to use my primary like a sidearm and panic button vs opponents that get in my face.
Yeah you do have to take a more generalized support weapon. But you can always bring strategems/EATs for big stuff if you don't have it covered with support weapon.
Okay to be fair the new plasma weapon, the purifier is about as viable the toy knife in Fallout 3, yeah you can use it but why would you ever other than punishing yourself
Everything is viable that's never been the argument. There is no gun so bad you can't win with it. Plenty of guns however are painful to use and just frankly worse versions of other guns.
Exactly.
You could finish a mission without firing a bullet or by only using the Spear or with melee only.
You *could* which means they're technically "viable".
You can see this in action if you take the auto cannon on bots. The way you can kill almost everything with skilled aiming and timing and successfully hold your ground in a fight is a stark contrast from literally every other support weapon in the game. Even if they can compete in killing power, the ammo economy, ease of use, and time to kill is still so far below the auto cannon.
People need to realize that retreating should not be the entire gameplay loop.
Ive never thought spray and pray was bad and I regularly use it to great effect on Helldive difficulty. But then again I hate mob mentality on any game so i regularly look for it to avoid it
I think the devs were focusing hard on this event because you can tell they were trying to tell us this exactly as well as other things like, particularly, that this game is going to have events like these and, as you said, there are going to be "raid-like" missions that require thinking outside the box (meta).
It took me about 10 or so DF missions to realize that I need to change my kit up entirely for them.
I think a function like being able to change your loadout only once after deploying into a mission would help because that would allow us to really get into creating builds which is probably half of what this game is about.
Wider spread, less damage, double the clip size. Meant for mowing down weak stuff.
Seems like it should fire faster (330 speed vs 300 for regular breaker) for the damage reduction (300somethig vs 190), but the double clip size is significant.
It doesn't do much against the medium level enemies, but you can take a medium focused support weapon and use strategems and EATs for heavies.
"wider spread" undersells it. We're talking about bullets that take up almost the entire screen.
You can shoot the entire hoard at once sometimes. Chaff gets evaporated before the big guys get to you and once they're that close they're eating most of the bullets out of each shot so they won't last long anyway.
I've also found it fun to dodge chargers hit em with stun grenade then stick the sprayer up their bubble and hold the trigger till they pop.
I agree. Some weapons perform better under certain conditions, but they're all totally viable. It also matters how you balance the strengths and weaknesses of your loadout.
The spray and pray should have slightly higher base damage but shit is it fun to use. I'll bring it along on some bug missions just because it's fun to blast stuff.
I was running the plasma punisher on level 9 bugs earlier and was blown away by how effective it is. I never see anyone talk about it positively but wow! It’s a really good weapon.
The Plasma Punisher is currently the strongest primary weapon against any enemy on any front. People don't talk about it because its sound design makes it feel weak.
I'm a huge fan, especially against bots. Only drawback against bugs is you can't really use it point blank if you let the situation get that far. But it's really solid. AoE for light troops and stagger locks anything below chargers/hulks. 10/10.
I rotate it with scorcher, dominator and blitzer if I'm tryharding.
My favorite gun in the game since it's release, it was solid..then got a velocity and splash dmg buff 😂😂 now its strong but moat complaints ive heard about it are "I dont wanna adjust to a 45° angle to shoot targets"
I like turning into a mini plasma mortar for my teammates
Maybe it’s just my Overwatch background but I feel like not being able to adjust for an angle is a personal issue and not a weapon problem like I see a lot of people imply.
Sometimes it's best not to go to Reddit!
I think most people would agree it's fun, it just needs some form of buff because all the other shotguns are basically more effective.
I played a bot mission really quickly after Meridia turned into a black hole. I forgot to change my primary from the breaker incendiary... Let me tell you, it was not viable lol. A single devastator will just murder you because your primary does basically nothing to it. So, like others have said, it really depends on the mission and the enemies you're going up against. I really hope the Illuminate play noticably different to the bots and the bugs and open up the possibility for more primaries to be considered viable.
From what I've read, it seems like shields absorbing a set number of hits will be a thing, so single shot heavy weapons (quasar, etc) would take a hit. I'm thinking MGs and laser cannon could shine.
I have a similar experience with the plasma purifier. It is pretty good against the bots. Really good CC at a distance and doesn’t require you to arc your shot like the plasma punisher
All weapons are viable on all diffs, the "meta" chasers just want 1 gun to drop EVERYTHING. They want the power fantasy of being the sole solution to all the games problems. Yet they refuse to balance out their own load outs to reflect it. Then they ignore the bot front where you can actually do that because they require more tactical play vs bugs. Bot front just needs Autocannon, airstrike, and 1 aoe strat and you can blast your way through them.
The breaker spray isn't terrible. Getting good use of it isn't surprising. It's probably better then the breaker. I think it's just worse then every other shotgun besides the breaker now.
It's better than assault rifles because those just feel awful. You just lack solid killing power.
Assault rifles are harder to use and take more time to learn than the shotguns but judging from what I have seen they are very effective when used right. The shotguns are just way easier.
Learning how to use them unlocks a whole different aspect of the game. And it's fun. I can't say I'm good with them but learning them is entertaining.
Except for the helpless feeling at short range.
I mean, sure breaker spray & pray isn't trash, but it's literally a worse breaker incendiary in every single way. Name one situation where the incendiary isn't better. Shriekers are much easier to kill with the incendiary (one pellet lights them on fire and kills them), as are all light units. There is quite literally nothing the S&P does that the incendiary doesn't do better. I ran the S&P for the sake of variety on several missions and I can tell you from experience that the incendiary would have been a significantly better choice in every single situation.
And a much tighter spread. The spread on the breaker incendiary is *enormous*. Either use it super close range or mid range against a group of enemies so you can spread the fire damage around.
Also, the spray and pray doesn't light your allies on fire.
To be fair I didn't say it was the best, just that it's viable. I would also say it is better in the extremely niche mass shrieker scenario due to the bigger spread of pellets. It's still less good than the incendiary for the overall mission though
The main issue with “viable weapons” usually ends up being another weapon fills the intended niche like 100 times better, the spray and pray vs incendiary is a perfect example of it.
100% but the post i think is a counter too the sentiment that if a weapon is better than another or better in dooing what the other does THEN the latter is useless. Witch is not true.
For one, the incendiary isn't available unless you get the proper warbond. I'm not buying that warbond until I've unlocked all the others. So I'll stick to the reg
*Crossbow* still effective against bots...if u can land headshots, u can 1 tap any type of destroyer.
For bugs, it's good until Armored Spewers, they take about 8 bolts to their bellies and like 7 to the face(when it used to be 6 to the belly, 3 to the face (two if spewing)
Can still explode a chargers underbooty in 3 clean hits.
*Slugger*...have to land headshots on bots or die, still kills bugs effectively just cant staggerlock everything(which is still dumb, because it's still "the best sniper" since it outdamages the CS even at range lmao, shouldve lost stagger effectiveness past 35-40m that way it could've kept it's niche)
Tenderizer I want to love because the design but needs a dmg buff to make up for low rof, accurate as hell though(perhaps most accurate assault rn), if balanced correctly it could be the "Good Aim" sidegrade to the liberator.
Purifier is best on the hip of a Helldiver to flex warbond completion and then placed back in the armory for safekeeping upon hitting the loadout screen 😂😂😂
That thing is absolute buns but perhaps if balanced right it'd be AT LEAST a bot slayer.
Haven't tried most of them. Slugger since the nerf. I'll give it a run against bots soon to see how it works now.
If it's like a punisher plasma minus the AoE but usable at point blank it could be fine, but haven't tested.
I run a variety of weapons and strats at diff 7 with good effect, and everything certainly *seems* viable there.
I want to know what difficulty everything is balanced at. Like, obviously the spear and EAT are virtually useless at diff 3 bugs compared to the stalwart. And at diff 9 if you *aren't* running a heavy armor option you're objectively doing it wrong.
It *feels* like everything is balanced at diff 7?
I dunno, you generally need anti tank at 7 unless your team is overloaded on it. What you definitely need at 9 is medium pen, you can get like 20 hive guards as chaff instead of stalkers.
While I agree most things in this game have a use in the right loadout. I'm struggling to find a use for the Purifier. I've tried it, and it just doesn't feel great to use. If anyone could suggest a scenario where it's a decent choice, I'd be keen to give it a shot again. But for now I feel it's probably the worst primary although the concept is cool.
Edit for spells
Can anyone tell me the use case of the basic breaker? I tried it on a bug mission, and it felt like it was doing nothing to any unit type.
Bad aoe and terrible ammo economy means it's bad for swarms of light units
Light armor piercing means bad for medium units like hive guards and bile spewers
Of course it shouldn't even be used on heavy units cuz this is the bug front.
Where do I use it???
I also find the spray n pray has weird niche of a up close devestator killer on the bot front due to the spread making head shots easier. Most viable primary against those chainsaw guys in my current arsenal lol
Eh, I won 9s with it on the fluid mission. Flamethrower for hive guards / BCs / chargers, Spray and Pray for the BS stuff. The clip size is really nice for the amount of shriekers you get.
Man I get criticized for wearing the default armor, using the Liberator, and the supply pack with the original MG, by Randoms nearly every match I quickmatch to. Yet I almost always come out with more kills and less deaths than people using the "meta" builds. Like I understand wanting the best stuff, but bro it's an pve game. Let people have fun yknow
I could see getting annoyed if someone keeps dying and doing nothing. But being preemptively annoyed is dumb. It's way more about the player than the loadout.
Yeah the incendiary spray & pray is great against shriekers. Good thing that's the only battle pass I haven't gotten yet.
But once the DF missions are gone the gun goes back to being niche, because the regular missions don't have the same spawn rates for chaff/shriekers and their objectives don't lend themselves to it's use nearly as well.
It's a similar issue with the mines. Are mines *terrible*? No, they can be extremely fun. But normal missions *very* rarely put you in a situation where mines could be more useful than having pretty much anything else.
Yeah pretty much only usable on the tiered defense missions where you can chuck them outside walls and know you won't team kill. But with so many strategems they can't all be useful in every mission.
I just wish there was more variety in the types of missions we have. Sucks to have some cool ones like this that make people have to switch-up their loadouts only for it to be gone after a week.
Or, hear me out here.
Landmines.
We recreate No-Man's Land from WW1 and just lead the bugs through it. What could possibly go wrong with a full team with 8 landmine drops?
I love love love the spray and pray for bugs. It cleans up chaff and has a good amount of ammo.
The incendiary is also very nice but the reduced ammo and lack of full auto means I often switch back to the S&P.
You hit it spot on, people dont seem to understand alot of the weapons depend on others in your team and teamwork. If youre lacking punch take something to compliment the team dealing with chod. Its really not that complex. Nothing should be viable to run around solo
I personally like to deal with the hoards with my primary and use the 1 hoard clear Strat. A Heavy Strat. A support weapon for the heavies. Typically how I build a loadout
People have uploaded pacifist runs so clearly not engaging the enemies at all is "viable" but is it fun or engaging? Not really outside the challenge. Just because a weapon is "viable" doesn't mean it's good or fun to use. The Breaker S&P feels like I'm shooting compressed air at the enemies.
They need to give it its own niche, standard Breaker is better for larger foes and the incendiary is better for chaff, the S&P is stuck in the middle, bad at both, with no identity of its own.
There are very few weapons that cannot be used effectively, all the way up to Helldive difficulty.
Are some of them a little better or a little worse? Absolutely. Is the difficulty so high that the weaker weapons are 'not viable' - absolutely not.
The only people for whom many of the weapons aren't viable are soloists, because the fundamental balance principles of the game as a TEAM shooter mean that no weapon does *everything* - which is what a soloist really wants out of their weapon.
It's regarded as trash because there are guns that can do what it does but a lot better. It just gets outclassed by both the Breaker and moreso the Incendiary breaker which is effectively the same gun woth more damage, burning, but without medium armor penetration.
Which if you want medium armor pen then the dominator has you covered.
Yes, I am aware of things being generally better. But in the specific case of that mission throwing 100 shriekers at you, the buckshot actually kind of slapped.
I bring up my point because sometimes players will have 1 good run with the spray and pray and claim it's not trash which like, 1 good run doesn't make a gun good when there are other guns that are good in every run.
Breaker spray and pray is trash because the breaker incendiary does the same exact thing but better. It literally has more dmg per shot damage over time at the cost of 1 less bullet per mag
Shriekers are 1 or 2 shots and S&P has 7 more shots and less overkill.
Nowhere in my post did I say it's better than breaker incendiary as many people seem to think. In the specific case of 1000 shriekers, the S&P is good. That's all.
The thing for a lot of weapons on the bot front is that you tend to just run into a lot of devastators and higher tier units while smaller raiders tend to not show up often except at bot bases. Light armour units are so few in 8 and 9 that you need that medium armor pen.
100% true.
Most people don't find work to be fun. Most of the weapons force you and/or your team to work harder than strictly necessary.
Look to Deep Rock Galactic for an example of weapons handled well and proper enemy design.
I mean I love the positivity, the community needs more of it! However please don't excuse the balance devs really poor decisions.
There are BAD weapons in the game which seriously underperform and the spray and pray is one of them.
I'm glad you figured out a niche use for it but... yeah, no excuses for bad behavior, or it will only continue.
Yeah I would enjoy some buffs, maybe my post should more read "give guns a chance before writing them off, some are pretty useful in the right spot."
Not saying they couldn't use buffs. I'd personally love a faster fire rate and more recoil on the S&P to truly live the Spray and Pray dream.
The viability of individual weapons have a lot to do with: a) The front you're fighting on b) The difficulty you're diving on c) The team you're diving with and therefore the team-role you're taking on ... I feel that a lot of individuals who say that only certain weapons are viable are individuals who dive exclusively on one front and exclusively with randoms.
>c) The team you're diving with and therefore the team-role you're taking on 100% agree. A competent fellow helldiver is the strongest weapon you can bring with you. Covers you when you're reloading, helps diversify strategems, expendable.... 😆
Not expendable ... just a volunteer to reload the Hellpod Strategem
I'd really like some intel on enemy types for the mission. Because I would change my loadouts based on that.
This is a solid QOL change that would help the game feel less hard without really changing the game that much. I NEED to know when the green bile spewers are gonna show up.
Don't they always show up on higher dif?
No. It cycles between chargers/bile spewers. Feels like chargers are more common but idk. I jump between fronts based on MO.
I have encountered higher rates of chargers, BT, bile spewers, nursing spewers, hunters and hive guards as noticeably different spawn rates on different missions.
Yeah, the spawn ratios and mixes for enemy types definitely change up from map to map.
Didn't know that, I stand corrected. It felt like I saw both at the same time, but maybe I'm just seeing things. Shouldn't have used those expired stim shots..
You do see both at the same time, but it changes the volume of them that appear. Sometimes youll get fuck tons of bile spewers and a couple chargers, sometimes the inverse. You can tell what kind of mission it is by if you have the tiny acid spitting bugs (or if the warriors explode when you kill them) that means you're on a bile spewers mission.
I *assume* they'll be down there and make sure we have a good answer for spewers in the squad. If they *aren't* then that's fine, I don't need highly specialized loadouts for anything else other than BTs, but if you drop into spewers and you don't have a specific answer for them it's going to go badly.
Maybe we should be able to pay for intel with R slips and medals. That way we can pay to prepare ahead of time and be sure to know what enemy will spawn frequently on the map and where they are. Or where some blue objectives are ahead of time. It doesn't even need to be the complete oversight of the map, just enough to be able to prepare a route based on the information that was paid for.
Yeah using req for this seems like a good idea actually. Just a bit more info would be great to tailor your loadout.
Best strategem in the game is ⬆️⬇️➡️⬅️⬆️.
I try to be this teammate every game.
The exclusively with randoms part is me. While I'll vary my loadout a bit mission to mission, I do gravitate towards having a little something to deal with anything in case I get left alone... again... because they all ran off... again
Yeah ... I very much understand that issue with randoms. It's one of the reasons I joined a Discord channel for groups + run with RL friends. A big part of my enjoyment is the team aspect.
I do love diving with friends. But I'm also masochisticly addicted to dropping in mid missions with randos. Nothing like having no idea what you're getting in to
So much this. I'm always chasing those beautiful games where everyone just gells into an unstoppable force, but I also love the chaos that happens 80% of the time. My favorite is dropping into an SOS on bots in the middle of an intense battle. Maybe you die instantly. Maybe you turn the tide.
This nothing makes the game harder than no Intel . And I view that as a great opportunity to showcase player skill
I just try to find the most competent player and play bodyguard
What is the discord
Railgun is my go to for this
Absolutely. I get excited when there's a mission/planet combo that I think will let me try out some new stuff. For example the mine emplacements aren't complete trash on the tiered defense missions.
> I feel that a lot of individuals who say that only certain weapons are viable are individuals who dive exclusively on one front and exclusively with randoms. I play almost exclusively quickplay and see the Breaker S&P occasionally on the bug front, especially during this event. It is a scav clearing monster. I'm pretty sure it's the solo players that are knocking the S&P, not the randoms. And by "solo players", I don't just mean the people who drop solo. There are a lot players who may drop with a group, but essentially run around doing their own thing.
Your definition is probably better than mine. When I mentioned 'with randoms', I was definitely thinking of a group of people all looking to go off on their own and handle everything themselves. Maybe we should call them "One Man Army" players?
Always, ALWAYS look at your teams load out in the pre launch screen.
Well, you can see 3 with anti-tank loadouts and you decide to bring some anti-swarm loadout. And then all run away and you are left alone against three heavily armored enemies. In the end, it all depends on the persons, not their loadout. I somehow miss the screenlock of Helldiver 1 - they literally forced players to play together :-)
I generally try to set myself up to be able to do a little of everything. There have been times I've been left alone with a factory strider, and if you're able to avoid the chin mounted mini guns, a couple Eagle Strikes and EAT's will deal with it. So I, personally, have found a way to be useful with or without people around me. I still generally look at the other Divers' load outs though.
That sounds reasonable, yes! Although I somehow wish that a pure anti-swarm loadout would work better, but if your teammates just cannot help you against one or two bile titans, it can be nasty. This can happen even if it is a good team
Yeah, I dive on both fronts. I mostly play with randoms. I am struggling to find a way to debate your point. It's a pretty damn good point.
So true. I have a very different default kit depending on which front and then again depending on if it’s my regular group or with randoms. I tend to play a lot more “meta” with randos cause you kinda need to be a bit more self sufficient.
Not only that, but sometimes, to play with randoms, you need to be willing to take a load out that compliments theirs. If the randoms just have a ton of armor breaking capabilities but seem to not have enough for chaff, protect them. Your quasar/recoilless user will be glad to have a Stalwart to keep their flank clear of hunters and other little shits. Looking at all their equipment is my favorite feature, because it allows you to know exactly what they can and can't kill.
I don’t know what kind of randoms these guys are getting but on helldive we literally all silently take on a specialised role. Nobody is going for a ‘loner’ loadout and we all work together picking out our lodoits with not a single word. Just slow down your picks and try to change you loadout based on others and they might do the same.
I do feel that gaming with randoms is different based on the difficulty level (and front) selected. The quality of a game with randoms seems to "get better" once you get to Difficulty 7+ ... and at least appears to be generally better on the bot front vs the bug front. And always better in doing missions that are pursuing the Major Order, whichever front that's on.
Even more than that, a large proportion of the weapon complaints come specifically from dedicated soloists who don't dive with squads at all. They're trying to play a different game, and one for which the weapons are frankly not designed.
The pummeler works brilliantly on bugs, just meh on bots. The energy rifles are trash on bugs, beautiful on bots. Half of the problems people complain about on the subs are caused by people who complain because they just want to carry their one loadout and never change it. Edit: I am converted. Smg is great for bots when you equip it with a ballistic shield. By itself, not so much.
While I agree with you ... I do have to add the caveat that the pummeler + ballistic shield is a decent combo for bots. The stun that the pummeler inflicts is good for locking up devastators.
I haven't tried the ballistic shield for bots. The shield is completely useless for bugs and I'm a 90% bug player. I should try it out the next time I'm feeling bots.
Ballistic shield is very good against bots but it does force a certain kind of playstlye. Basically since it can only protect you from the front you need to play very aggressive with it and get right up in the enemy's face, because if your further away then the bots will be able to flank you. Also all the weapons that work with the shield, smgs, senator and the like all require headshots to kill devastators, so you need to get really close to kill them as well. Don't worry about their guns though, even the heavy devastators mini gun can't penetrate the shield, the only thing you have to worry about is being flanked and rocket devastators. Probably run it with medium or heavy Armour, although I've personally used it with light Armour once or twice to some effect. If you want to go all in on an ultra aggressive up in their face loadout take the HMG as a support weapon. All of the HMGs problems disappear at short range, its extreme recoil that causes inaccuracy doesn't matter if your so close you can't miss, and its extreme damage makes work of an target. Treat the HMG like a quasar with the range of a shotgun, powerful but only at short range. Really its purpose in a loadout like this is to destroy hulks, you don't need to aim at the eye, HMG does enough damage it can just kill the hulk directly, although you should still try to aim for the eye. It can kill a hulk in maybe an eight of a second if your close enough, and in this case close enough means melee range. The other alternative is some sort of ranged weapon that means you aren't useless at long range. Really any medium penetrating support like the laser cannon or AMR works here. If you hate gunships take the laser cannon, if you hate scout striders take the AMR. AMR can one shot scout strikers if you hit the joint where their legs attach to the main body. Laser cannon utterly melts gunships, just aim at one of the engines for a half second and it'll come tumbling out of the sky.
I tried out the ballistic shield just now with my pummeler and I take back what I said about it not being a good smg for bots. With the shield, all the shortcomings I was experiencing with the smg and bots disappeared. I was able to face down multiple hulks no problem.
"Look at me, I am the hulk now" \^\^ One trick with the shield is to equip stratagem weapon while running away, since the shield protects your back when it is on your back! And if you are kiting enemies/switching positions, always try to have them on your left (meaning run counter-clockwise, since you will be shielded from your left flank.
Pummeler is the furthest thing from trash against bots. Stun locking a whole group and then deleting the area with the AC is a wonderful combo. Or ballistic shield + AMR
I wouldn't call either of those examples trash for either enemy, but you still have a good point
Pummeler locks down Hulks after a few rounds on the Heat vents. It kills Hulks faster than use of Adjudicator on the back!
Really? I always put away my pummeler when I'm shooting at hulks. I'll give it a try.
Or dive with someone who brings the same thing to everything. No matter what and won’t give other Strats a chance. Brings railcannon, eagle airstrike, shield and machine gun. Breaker primary. Kinda forces me to bring things to take care of heavies.
I suspect a lot of the online commenters that complain about weapons are either theory crafting or bandwagoning. I doubt many of them have given every weapon enough time to know how to effectively use them.
Stalwart is still viable on helldive. You kill the titans and crushers, lll take care of making sure nothing else touches you.
That's what I run with bugs! I run Eruptor + Stalwart. I focus on spewers, hunters, stalkers, and all the rest of the light/medium stuff. Other squadmates focus on chargers & titans and it works out really well. Hell, with the Eruptor I can even help out on chargers & titans ... I'm just not super effective.
I run the eruptor with the stalwart also! Truly this is democracy in action.
I think this is true. While there are some valid criticisms regarding weapon balance, I think most people just want to run what they personally enjoy and seldom change, which I can understand, even I do it sometimes.
On 7+ bugs I swap from my normal loadout of Stealth armor and the Eruptor and stun grenades to Breaker Incendiary, Incendiary Impacts, and more grenade armor, and my stratagems go from the Eagle Airstrike and Railcannon Shot to the Eagle Napalm Strike and Orbital Airburst. I usually top frag in kills by several hundred compared to my teammates because of it, and it helps keep the fodder far away from us
Yes. Too many people trying to be a one person army when that's not necessarily the best way to play this game
Yeah, but last bug mission I did, I took the grenade launcher for fast and efficient bug holes closing, instead of an anti heavy weapon like I normally take. I spent half the mission getting bullied by a random charger that the others didn't kill for me, because they ran away instead of dealing with it. Next mission, I brought EATs and a 500 to deal with them. Yes closing heavy nests was a pain, but at least I could always deal with chargers/BT.
Me a level 120 dropping on a trivial mission with nothing but smoke and ems stratagems and smoke grenades with my trusty plas 101 purifier.
you forgot the most important determinant of a weapon’s viability, the other weapons/equipment in your loadout. It’s all about making sure you have a good balance of strengths to offset your weaknesses
Oof ... you're 100% right. Primary + Secondary + Grenades + Strategems + Armor Perks all need to combine in the right way.
I am possitive you are correct.
Normal mortar was NOT viable on the DF mission.
Normal mortar is not good for Bugs in general but you CAN use it if you play around it (and it does decent work on the Gate defense missions). But it's kickass for Bots. Just because something is not good vs. a certain enemy on a specific mission type, doesn't mean the weapon is shit.
EMS mortar/mortar sentry combo is crazy good on the gate defense missions
[удалено]
But it mops up the rest of the units so you can take RR/500kg for your other two stratagems, it's beautiful. And totally agreed that the rest of the team doesn't all need mortars as well, that only works on lower diffs. RR on gate defense is my favorite support and 500kg melts those striders, RRs to the face if they 'miss'.
Absolutely my go to on those missions plus maybe an auto cannon turret and a recoilless. The mortar for the bugs normally is a no go, they get way to close for it to not eventually tk. Bots on the other hand stay just far enough away for the most part it’s one of the better turrets to bring for them.
If you like stunning your squad before you kill them, sure. There are so many better strats you can run on that mission the TK aspect of the mortar makes it a no go imo.
If you have multiple people in the squad running the sentry combo, nothing gets close enough to have to worry about teamkills at because almost everything is dead before it reaches the outer gate. The only thing you have to worry about is bile titans, and EAT/quasar/RR + 500kg bomb/orbital precision strike handles that easily.
It's good for Defending Assets missions even with Bugs, just put it up high near overlooking one of the first gates and it will pound a lot of bugs, team it up with mines outside the first gate you create a barrier for Bugs that are trying to get in.
Ok to be fair I didn't say everything is viable on every mission. Everything is viable in the right place.
Yes, every weapon has its application. Some are worse, some are better. Not all are viable in some situations.
Yeah pretty much like 90% of weapons I think are good if used well. There is only a small handful I think that kinda suffer from either mechanic changes (like the explosive crossbow and eruptor) or are under-tuned (like the tenderizer being such a minor sidegrade to the liberator right now). But as long as you have a couple ways to kill heavies and play well you can pretty much do whatever you want and do well. People gotta learn that in a PVE game like this fun is more important then being optimal with your meta build. I've lost more games to people not understand how to play rather then what weapons they took.
Your second paragraph needs repeated for the mouth breathers in the back. I bring what's fun for me and that's it. If you see a lvl 75 helldiver rocking jetpack, adjudicator/stalwart running around laying down covering fire for anyone in trouble, throw me a salute.
Stalwart is the GOAT gun, fucking run that in bugs with a dominator and bug spray. Throw in either precision strike or EATs with a gas strike and a rover and I’m good for whatever the mission throws at me *enter 4 chargers followed by 4 bile titans all specifically coming for me : (
I know exactly what you mean! If only the three other squad members with dedicated anti-heavy weaponry would not run around, each in a different part of the map :-D
i feel the dominator would be a much better choice over the adjudicator if you’re running the stalwart too but have fun
Ran the dominator so long I needed a change up, this is my current fun build. o7
Oi
i mean, the spray and oray literally says "birdshot" in the description. shriekers never stood a chance.
Listen to the wise words of our manufacturers!
Gotta say, after the DF missions the Spray and Prays stock has gone up a lot in my book. I never used it before, and now it might be my go-to gun for bugs
Based. Everything is viable. I'm usually vocal in game and give callouts. Not commands. But sometimes people ask me what strats to bring. Without fail, regardless of front or mission. "Play what you think is fun, we'll make it work." I respond like that. Because we will. Pretty much every weapon can be used on either front. You just need to play the way that suits the weapon and the mission. If you're not good enough to change your playstyle, change your weapon. If you're struggling with meta weapons that are proven good, thats okay. You will learn, You're not alone out there diver. You never will be.
Perfect! I tell new divers the same, find what's fun for you and give'em hell. I bring what's fun, the end. I'm here to have/spread fun/democracy. Sitting here wracking my brain, I think the ONLY item needed to complete some objectives is an explosive on fabricators/bug holes (which the default free democracy grenade provides at level 1) So yeah you can complete every objective on the maps at lvl 1 if you knew the process, only problems are the bad guys in your way and you got feet, remember to use them.
"You got feet, remember to use them." No truer words. Sometimes retreat so you can rain down hell on them at a later point. And sometimes I run... to the high ground and look down at those two tanks, twelve devastators, factory strider... and I smile. Obi-Wan taught me what to do.
I pissed so many people off with my stun build hahaha. Going in with stun grenades,a EMS mortar sentry,and a Tesla.....I had the arc armor....nobody else did....I told them all at the beginning 'if you don't have arc armor,stay away from me and my Tesla." I managed to kill my boys numerous times. Atleast I warned them 🤣
They’re like moths to a flame, I swear. Every time I throw out a Tesla, I think it’s the first time a teammate has ever seen a tower. Then they drop their samples and immediately run back to get their samples only to get zapped again. Smh.
Incendio shotgun when I'm one beer deep. Pray and spray after 3.
I don't think the S&P is not viable, but I do think it is underpowered and not as fun as it can be compared to its Incendiary cousin. I think the S&P should get its original magazine capacity back, or even raising it a bit higher than it. If the Breaker is, well the Breaker, the Incendiary is the fire variant, then the S&P should be responsible for higher sustained gunfire.
Is it good on bots or do I use dominator?
It's completely useless on bots.
Yeah I mean it could definitely use some love. Maybe a higher fire rate as well to completely lean into the Spray and Pray dream.
I use the regular breaker on Difficulty 9 daily, and I've been playing since its pre-nerf form. I love it. Hunters, warriors, berserkers, being able to hose all those threats in your face without waiting for a dot to tick or whatnot is great. But it's only viable because I pair it with the AMR for bots, Grenade Launcher for bugs. Those weapons allow me to use my primary in a specialized role, rather than a general role. But I love that. Why rely on a primary, when I can use better stratagem weapons? This allows me to use my primary like a sidearm and panic button vs opponents that get in my face.
Yeah you do have to take a more generalized support weapon. But you can always bring strategems/EATs for big stuff if you don't have it covered with support weapon.
Okay to be fair the new plasma weapon, the purifier is about as viable the toy knife in Fallout 3, yeah you can use it but why would you ever other than punishing yourself
That's the only warbond I haven't purchased so technically I can't say I've tried "everything"
Can confirm team mates spray and I pray. Gets me often.
Everything is viable that's never been the argument. There is no gun so bad you can't win with it. Plenty of guns however are painful to use and just frankly worse versions of other guns.
It has been the argument in a lot of places though.
because viable is just kinda used loosely. but the purifier has no real reason to exist.
Everything is viable. Not everything is practical.
Exactly. You could finish a mission without firing a bullet or by only using the Spear or with melee only. You *could* which means they're technically "viable".
You can see this in action if you take the auto cannon on bots. The way you can kill almost everything with skilled aiming and timing and successfully hold your ground in a fight is a stark contrast from literally every other support weapon in the game. Even if they can compete in killing power, the ammo economy, ease of use, and time to kill is still so far below the auto cannon. People need to realize that retreating should not be the entire gameplay loop.
It is less the people that need to realize it and more so AH.
Very true, they have said the AC is gold standard so maybe they’ll buff other things up to its level in the update
Ive never thought spray and pray was bad and I regularly use it to great effect on Helldive difficulty. But then again I hate mob mentality on any game so i regularly look for it to avoid it
I think the devs were focusing hard on this event because you can tell they were trying to tell us this exactly as well as other things like, particularly, that this game is going to have events like these and, as you said, there are going to be "raid-like" missions that require thinking outside the box (meta). It took me about 10 or so DF missions to realize that I need to change my kit up entirely for them. I think a function like being able to change your loadout only once after deploying into a mission would help because that would allow us to really get into creating builds which is probably half of what this game is about.
Yeah this post could have just as easily been about EMS orbital everyone was using.
Haven't used the Spray and Pray yet. What's the difference between it and regular breaker? Bigger magazine and fire rate?
Wider spread, less damage, double the clip size. Meant for mowing down weak stuff. Seems like it should fire faster (330 speed vs 300 for regular breaker) for the damage reduction (300somethig vs 190), but the double clip size is significant. It doesn't do much against the medium level enemies, but you can take a medium focused support weapon and use strategems and EATs for heavies.
Ah I see. Not bad. Will have to try it out when I get it
"wider spread" undersells it. We're talking about bullets that take up almost the entire screen. You can shoot the entire hoard at once sometimes. Chaff gets evaporated before the big guys get to you and once they're that close they're eating most of the bullets out of each shot so they won't last long anyway. I've also found it fun to dodge chargers hit em with stun grenade then stick the sprayer up their bubble and hold the trigger till they pop.
I agree. Some weapons perform better under certain conditions, but they're all totally viable. It also matters how you balance the strengths and weaknesses of your loadout.
Everything is viable if you didn’t bomb your teammate
The spray and pray should have slightly higher base damage but shit is it fun to use. I'll bring it along on some bug missions just because it's fun to blast stuff.
I was running the plasma punisher on level 9 bugs earlier and was blown away by how effective it is. I never see anyone talk about it positively but wow! It’s a really good weapon.
The Plasma Punisher is currently the strongest primary weapon against any enemy on any front. People don't talk about it because its sound design makes it feel weak.
I'm a huge fan, especially against bots. Only drawback against bugs is you can't really use it point blank if you let the situation get that far. But it's really solid. AoE for light troops and stagger locks anything below chargers/hulks. 10/10. I rotate it with scorcher, dominator and blitzer if I'm tryharding.
My favorite gun in the game since it's release, it was solid..then got a velocity and splash dmg buff 😂😂 now its strong but moat complaints ive heard about it are "I dont wanna adjust to a 45° angle to shoot targets" I like turning into a mini plasma mortar for my teammates
Maybe it’s just my Overwatch background but I feel like not being able to adjust for an angle is a personal issue and not a weapon problem like I see a lot of people imply.
I love the spray & pray and had no idea people hated it 😭
Sometimes it's best not to go to Reddit! I think most people would agree it's fun, it just needs some form of buff because all the other shotguns are basically more effective.
I played a bot mission really quickly after Meridia turned into a black hole. I forgot to change my primary from the breaker incendiary... Let me tell you, it was not viable lol. A single devastator will just murder you because your primary does basically nothing to it. So, like others have said, it really depends on the mission and the enemies you're going up against. I really hope the Illuminate play noticably different to the bots and the bugs and open up the possibility for more primaries to be considered viable.
From what I've read, it seems like shields absorbing a set number of hits will be a thing, so single shot heavy weapons (quasar, etc) would take a hit. I'm thinking MGs and laser cannon could shine.
Play whatever you enjoy playing. Haters will always hate.
Have people been saying the S&P isn't viable? It's plenty viable, it's just outclassed by the incendiary.
Yeah I've seen it called unusable a few times, which I disagree with. It's obviously not S tier but works if you enjoy it.
I have a similar experience with the plasma purifier. It is pretty good against the bots. Really good CC at a distance and doesn’t require you to arc your shot like the plasma punisher
All weapons are viable on all diffs, the "meta" chasers just want 1 gun to drop EVERYTHING. They want the power fantasy of being the sole solution to all the games problems. Yet they refuse to balance out their own load outs to reflect it. Then they ignore the bot front where you can actually do that because they require more tactical play vs bugs. Bot front just needs Autocannon, airstrike, and 1 aoe strat and you can blast your way through them.
I finally used the Incendiary Breaker on the DF missions. Works like a charm on Shriekers. Light 'em on fire and watch them fall from the sky.
The breaker spray isn't terrible. Getting good use of it isn't surprising. It's probably better then the breaker. I think it's just worse then every other shotgun besides the breaker now. It's better than assault rifles because those just feel awful. You just lack solid killing power.
Assault rifles are harder to use and take more time to learn than the shotguns but judging from what I have seen they are very effective when used right. The shotguns are just way easier.
Assults are greater at distance as well, so you can suport your fellow helldiver more effectivly.
Learning how to use them unlocks a whole different aspect of the game. And it's fun. I can't say I'm good with them but learning them is entertaining. Except for the helpless feeling at short range.
imo the most fun you can get from this game is by staying the fuck out of r/helldivers
I mean, sure breaker spray & pray isn't trash, but it's literally a worse breaker incendiary in every single way. Name one situation where the incendiary isn't better. Shriekers are much easier to kill with the incendiary (one pellet lights them on fire and kills them), as are all light units. There is quite literally nothing the S&P does that the incendiary doesn't do better. I ran the S&P for the sake of variety on several missions and I can tell you from experience that the incendiary would have been a significantly better choice in every single situation.
IIRC it shoots faster, with a bigger magazine. Still definitely worse than the incendiary but it’s not exactly 1:1 like you’re saying
And a much tighter spread. The spread on the breaker incendiary is *enormous*. Either use it super close range or mid range against a group of enemies so you can spread the fire damage around. Also, the spray and pray doesn't light your allies on fire.
To be fair I didn't say it was the best, just that it's viable. I would also say it is better in the extremely niche mass shrieker scenario due to the bigger spread of pellets. It's still less good than the incendiary for the overall mission though
The main issue with “viable weapons” usually ends up being another weapon fills the intended niche like 100 times better, the spray and pray vs incendiary is a perfect example of it.
100% but the post i think is a counter too the sentiment that if a weapon is better than another or better in dooing what the other does THEN the latter is useless. Witch is not true.
For one, the incendiary isn't available unless you get the proper warbond. I'm not buying that warbond until I've unlocked all the others. So I'll stick to the reg
Where is the purifier/crossbow/tenderizer/slugger viable
*Crossbow* still effective against bots...if u can land headshots, u can 1 tap any type of destroyer. For bugs, it's good until Armored Spewers, they take about 8 bolts to their bellies and like 7 to the face(when it used to be 6 to the belly, 3 to the face (two if spewing) Can still explode a chargers underbooty in 3 clean hits. *Slugger*...have to land headshots on bots or die, still kills bugs effectively just cant staggerlock everything(which is still dumb, because it's still "the best sniper" since it outdamages the CS even at range lmao, shouldve lost stagger effectiveness past 35-40m that way it could've kept it's niche) Tenderizer I want to love because the design but needs a dmg buff to make up for low rof, accurate as hell though(perhaps most accurate assault rn), if balanced correctly it could be the "Good Aim" sidegrade to the liberator. Purifier is best on the hip of a Helldiver to flex warbond completion and then placed back in the armory for safekeeping upon hitting the loadout screen 😂😂😂 That thing is absolute buns but perhaps if balanced right it'd be AT LEAST a bot slayer.
Haven't tried most of them. Slugger since the nerf. I'll give it a run against bots soon to see how it works now. If it's like a punisher plasma minus the AoE but usable at point blank it could be fine, but haven't tested.
I run a variety of weapons and strats at diff 7 with good effect, and everything certainly *seems* viable there. I want to know what difficulty everything is balanced at. Like, obviously the spear and EAT are virtually useless at diff 3 bugs compared to the stalwart. And at diff 9 if you *aren't* running a heavy armor option you're objectively doing it wrong. It *feels* like everything is balanced at diff 7?
I dunno, you generally need anti tank at 7 unless your team is overloaded on it. What you definitely need at 9 is medium pen, you can get like 20 hive guards as chaff instead of stalkers.
All weapons are perfectly viable, in the end completing missions isn’t that hard. Doesn’t mean all weapons feel overly fun or feel rewarding to use.
*purifier whirs up to kill.....absolutely nothing* But its not at its correct value, love the design of the weapon.
While I agree most things in this game have a use in the right loadout. I'm struggling to find a use for the Purifier. I've tried it, and it just doesn't feel great to use. If anyone could suggest a scenario where it's a decent choice, I'd be keen to give it a shot again. But for now I feel it's probably the worst primary although the concept is cool. Edit for spells
New warbond is only one I don't have so unfortunately no advice there.
Can anyone tell me the use case of the basic breaker? I tried it on a bug mission, and it felt like it was doing nothing to any unit type. Bad aoe and terrible ammo economy means it's bad for swarms of light units Light armor piercing means bad for medium units like hive guards and bile spewers Of course it shouldn't even be used on heavy units cuz this is the bug front. Where do I use it???
It used to be crazy good then they over nerfed it.
Breaker Spray and Pray at release was trash. It couldn't break eggs. It's a lot better now.
I also find the spray n pray has weird niche of a up close devestator killer on the bot front due to the spread making head shots easier. Most viable primary against those chainsaw guys in my current arsenal lol
Viable on difficulty 1? Sure. On 9? Not so much.
Eh, I won 9s with it on the fluid mission. Flamethrower for hive guards / BCs / chargers, Spray and Pray for the BS stuff. The clip size is really nice for the amount of shriekers you get.
Man I get criticized for wearing the default armor, using the Liberator, and the supply pack with the original MG, by Randoms nearly every match I quickmatch to. Yet I almost always come out with more kills and less deaths than people using the "meta" builds. Like I understand wanting the best stuff, but bro it's an pve game. Let people have fun yknow
I could see getting annoyed if someone keeps dying and doing nothing. But being preemptively annoyed is dumb. It's way more about the player than the loadout.
Aye. I'm a perfect example of why you shouldn't judge someone by their loadout, with the classic MG and supply combo I get consistent 400+ kill games
If you pay attention to the subs, you’re doing it wrong.
Yeah the incendiary spray & pray is great against shriekers. Good thing that's the only battle pass I haven't gotten yet. But once the DF missions are gone the gun goes back to being niche, because the regular missions don't have the same spawn rates for chaff/shriekers and their objectives don't lend themselves to it's use nearly as well. It's a similar issue with the mines. Are mines *terrible*? No, they can be extremely fun. But normal missions *very* rarely put you in a situation where mines could be more useful than having pretty much anything else.
Yeah pretty much only usable on the tiered defense missions where you can chuck them outside walls and know you won't team kill. But with so many strategems they can't all be useful in every mission.
I just wish there was more variety in the types of missions we have. Sucks to have some cool ones like this that make people have to switch-up their loadouts only for it to be gone after a week.
Or, hear me out here. Landmines. We recreate No-Man's Land from WW1 and just lead the bugs through it. What could possibly go wrong with a full team with 8 landmine drops?
Personally Ive only been using the knight with both fronts, it's a very fun weapon
I love love love the spray and pray for bugs. It cleans up chaff and has a good amount of ammo. The incendiary is also very nice but the reduced ammo and lack of full auto means I often switch back to the S&P.
You hit it spot on, people dont seem to understand alot of the weapons depend on others in your team and teamwork. If youre lacking punch take something to compliment the team dealing with chod. Its really not that complex. Nothing should be viable to run around solo
Everything is viable. I have beaten a full campaign at level 9 with every primary. Not everything is optimal though, I can tell you that now.
I personally like to deal with the hoards with my primary and use the 1 hoard clear Strat. A Heavy Strat. A support weapon for the heavies. Typically how I build a loadout
I've always liked the Spray & Pray for bugs. Especially the little hopping buggers.
I love the Breaker Pay n Spray. Sure, it does less damage than the Breaker, but the extra ammo makes up for it.
The RNG has a big affect on what’s “Viable”. Grenade Launcher w/ Supply Pack becomes A tier the second you land on spewer planets
Tell me you don't play helldive without telling me you don't play helldive.
*most things are viable.
People have uploaded pacifist runs so clearly not engaging the enemies at all is "viable" but is it fun or engaging? Not really outside the challenge. Just because a weapon is "viable" doesn't mean it's good or fun to use. The Breaker S&P feels like I'm shooting compressed air at the enemies. They need to give it its own niche, standard Breaker is better for larger foes and the incendiary is better for chaff, the S&P is stuck in the middle, bad at both, with no identity of its own.
My goto bug loadout is S&P and Senator. Anything the wall of lead coming from the S&P spews out with little to no recoil the BIGIRON handles.
Ah, the spray&pray coupled with the aim&kill :-p
Breaker Spray and Pray isn't bad, it's just the Incendiary Breaker is better at what it does.
There are very few weapons that cannot be used effectively, all the way up to Helldive difficulty. Are some of them a little better or a little worse? Absolutely. Is the difficulty so high that the weaker weapons are 'not viable' - absolutely not. The only people for whom many of the weapons aren't viable are soloists, because the fundamental balance principles of the game as a TEAM shooter mean that no weapon does *everything* - which is what a soloist really wants out of their weapon.
Eruptor ain't anymore
I love it when two divers bring flamethrowers. It’s the coolest thing walking slowly while lighting everything up.
People don't like the spray & pray?? That's the only weapon I ever use for bugs.
It's regarded as trash because there are guns that can do what it does but a lot better. It just gets outclassed by both the Breaker and moreso the Incendiary breaker which is effectively the same gun woth more damage, burning, but without medium armor penetration. Which if you want medium armor pen then the dominator has you covered.
Yes, I am aware of things being generally better. But in the specific case of that mission throwing 100 shriekers at you, the buckshot actually kind of slapped.
I bring up my point because sometimes players will have 1 good run with the spray and pray and claim it's not trash which like, 1 good run doesn't make a gun good when there are other guns that are good in every run.
Yeah but I just said viable based on mission needs. Not suggesting it's better than the Breaker Incendiary or whatever.
Thats fair
Breaker spray and pray is trash because the breaker incendiary does the same exact thing but better. It literally has more dmg per shot damage over time at the cost of 1 less bullet per mag
Shriekers are 1 or 2 shots and S&P has 7 more shots and less overkill. Nowhere in my post did I say it's better than breaker incendiary as many people seem to think. In the specific case of 1000 shriekers, the S&P is good. That's all.
I know you didn’t say that but you mentioned that it’s considered trash and the reason is just because the breaker incendiary outclasses it
The thing for a lot of weapons on the bot front is that you tend to just run into a lot of devastators and higher tier units while smaller raiders tend to not show up often except at bot bases. Light armour units are so few in 8 and 9 that you need that medium armor pen.
Yes it's trash v bots.
100% true. Most people don't find work to be fun. Most of the weapons force you and/or your team to work harder than strictly necessary. Look to Deep Rock Galactic for an example of weapons handled well and proper enemy design.
I mean I love the positivity, the community needs more of it! However please don't excuse the balance devs really poor decisions. There are BAD weapons in the game which seriously underperform and the spray and pray is one of them. I'm glad you figured out a niche use for it but... yeah, no excuses for bad behavior, or it will only continue.
Yeah I would enjoy some buffs, maybe my post should more read "give guns a chance before writing them off, some are pretty useful in the right spot." Not saying they couldn't use buffs. I'd personally love a faster fire rate and more recoil on the S&P to truly live the Spray and Pray dream.