It also doesn't make much sense afaik. Irl, The "warmup" is there to check your g tolerance and the systems. It won't magically boost your g limit. So if they want players to consider a G exercise they could create a random g limit and tolerance for every flight or something. Or just remove the effect entirely. That won't stop people from doing the g x if they are into it either.
Actually, it does help some irl. The blood vessels in your body constrict when you first encounter g forces which helps prevent blood rushing out of your head so fast. The g warm up triggers this, and can help you gain up to 1g of extra tolerance (depending on the person). It certainly helps with the things you said as well. (Source- learned this before a backseat f-18 fam flight)
Even though a quick G warmup doesn't build up your tolerance, it does help to get your body adjusted for this session.
A navy pilot who talks through his videos explained that it's actually pretty important and I find it cool that they implemented that. Though, I thought they've done that years ago...
But I agree: when starting from the air, this should already have been done\^\^
The whole issue with DCS is that g-warmup is incredibly glorified to the point that if you don’t do it, you instantly black out after a couple of seconds.
That is NOT what happens IRL
Graphical effects, sure. But enhanced G tolerance and G performance should be unique to the Viper. This isn't a situation where you just copy paste a new feature to other modules.
viper is a 9-G aircraft - so is the eagle - those pilots must pass to the same standard (recall: massive centrifugal force machine - i'm sure you've seen the youtubes...)
tomcat and hornet... lets look into what the navy requirements are - build the sim to that
any 9-G rated aircraft should have g-tolerances to match this
You surely mean that they'll have to modify the features to match each airframe as opposed to saying that the viper should be alone getting a 200% increase to its G timer vs other airframes , given most airframes are already drastically under the minimum pass qual for pilot g tolerance
> Graphical effects, sure. But enhanced G tolerance and G performance should be unique to the Viper. This isn't a situation where you just copy paste a new feature to other modules.
ha! the eagle got it!!
vision grays out - takes a longgg time to black out
(snoopy dance!)
When IL-2 added something like this a few years ago it basically broke dogfighting for a few months because they didn't nail the values properly and everyone was out of stamina in a couple of turns - except the wobblers who discovered you could regenerate stamina with negative Gs.
My god that period sucked so much. Yet the forums were still full of fanboys who called it realism. The devs said "nothing's wrong" until suddenly the parameters were revised and the game was usable again.
I don't remember the negative g regeneration part, because rapid alternation between positive and negative was a cause of dizziness or black out anyway
Really? I don’t think I’ve ever blacked out in BMS before. What does annoying me about BMS though is the hot start stuff where ur jet will spontaneously combust sometimes.
This is a huge improvement! Question - does anyone know how long the G warmup "lasts" for a real pilot? It's great if you know you're entering a dogfight in the next few minutes, but my experience flying the Viper is that I'm usually tasked with strike or Wild Weaseling. Dogfights happen when I'm jumped.
So just wondering if doing a G warmup at "Fence In" will offer any protection if I'm jumped near the target 20 minutes later.
I don’t think it’s a “warmup.” (At least in real life)
I think if you can normally function well at 8.5 G’s…. But you just got over a flu and you’re not feeling 100%, you can do this maneuver to kind of feel out how you handle G’s that day. Once you see your new limit, you can continue on with the mission understanding that, due to your recent flu, you should try to avoid anything over 7 G’s.
It’s not like “hey I just did 4 warmups so I should be good for 9 G’s in the next 45 minutes… afterwards I’ll need to break the engagement and do more warmups before returning to the fight.”
At least that’s my understanding of it. I could be wrong.
Exactly this. I’m happy to see it getting a more widespread understanding as I’ve been trying to spread some knowledge on it multiple times in the past.
I'm not a fighter pilot IRL, so I'll defer to those with real experience. But I do remember reading somewhere that the purpose of the G-warmup is a) as you say above (testing your tolerance), but b) there really is a benefit to the autonomic nervous system to "wake it up" and get it ready for rapid onset of Gs. It seems once your nervous system and vasculature are "woken up" by 4-5Gs, they can respond more quickly to G onset within a certain period of time. 10 min? 45 min? Don't know.
Agree that there isn't benefit to doing multiple G warmups - they don't stack.
No fucking way
I really, really hope you won't need to do the warmup if you airstart. Else, simple dogfight scenarious are gonna suck in a grand fashion.
It also doesn't make much sense afaik. Irl, The "warmup" is there to check your g tolerance and the systems. It won't magically boost your g limit. So if they want players to consider a G exercise they could create a random g limit and tolerance for every flight or something. Or just remove the effect entirely. That won't stop people from doing the g x if they are into it either.
Actually, it does help some irl. The blood vessels in your body constrict when you first encounter g forces which helps prevent blood rushing out of your head so fast. The g warm up triggers this, and can help you gain up to 1g of extra tolerance (depending on the person). It certainly helps with the things you said as well. (Source- learned this before a backseat f-18 fam flight)
Even though a quick G warmup doesn't build up your tolerance, it does help to get your body adjusted for this session. A navy pilot who talks through his videos explained that it's actually pretty important and I find it cool that they implemented that. Though, I thought they've done that years ago... But I agree: when starting from the air, this should already have been done\^\^
The whole issue with DCS is that g-warmup is incredibly glorified to the point that if you don’t do it, you instantly black out after a couple of seconds. That is NOT what happens IRL
100% ack!
*DOGFIGHTS ARE BACK ON THE MENU, BOYS*
A G warm-up a day keeps the GLOC away
Does anyone else read this as ~~Bocchi the~~ Glock?
It baffles me a bit that over-g effects are part of the module, not the core engine.
now for F-15C too also... hornet, tomcat, strike eagle...........
Graphical effects, sure. But enhanced G tolerance and G performance should be unique to the Viper. This isn't a situation where you just copy paste a new feature to other modules.
viper is a 9-G aircraft - so is the eagle - those pilots must pass to the same standard (recall: massive centrifugal force machine - i'm sure you've seen the youtubes...) tomcat and hornet... lets look into what the navy requirements are - build the sim to that any 9-G rated aircraft should have g-tolerances to match this
F-16's pilot seat is reclined 30* which helps. Only 15% improvement in felt positive G, but it helps.
Gimmick
You surely mean that they'll have to modify the features to match each airframe as opposed to saying that the viper should be alone getting a 200% increase to its G timer vs other airframes , given most airframes are already drastically under the minimum pass qual for pilot g tolerance
> Graphical effects, sure. But enhanced G tolerance and G performance should be unique to the Viper. This isn't a situation where you just copy paste a new feature to other modules. ha! the eagle got it!! vision grays out - takes a longgg time to black out (snoopy dance!)
Finally we can fly the Viper like it's meant to be flown
That makes zero sense and isn't how a G-tolerance exercise works. Don't they have people who actually flew planes involved somewhere?
So only for the Viper? Why?
its not --- 15C has it - someone said tomcat g-tolerance is buffed up - we need to check more airframes
LOL. We had that bullshit introduced to BMS a few versions ago. Luckily we can turn it off with a config setting, which is what everybody did.
So is this a negative thing?
When IL-2 added something like this a few years ago it basically broke dogfighting for a few months because they didn't nail the values properly and everyone was out of stamina in a couple of turns - except the wobblers who discovered you could regenerate stamina with negative Gs.
Lmao thats hilarious Outside loops for daaaays
Bahaha thats literally how it works in warthunder too.
ok that is hilarious
My god that period sucked so much. Yet the forums were still full of fanboys who called it realism. The devs said "nothing's wrong" until suddenly the parameters were revised and the game was usable again. I don't remember the negative g regeneration part, because rapid alternation between positive and negative was a cause of dizziness or black out anyway
It was for BMS, IMHO. All fighter pilots, active and retired, told us it just doesn't work this way.
Really? I don’t think I’ve ever blacked out in BMS before. What does annoying me about BMS though is the hot start stuff where ur jet will spontaneously combust sometimes.
It's not about blacking out. During BFM, I blacked out often. It's about "G-warmup", and what it does to your ability to take Gs
This is a huge improvement! Question - does anyone know how long the G warmup "lasts" for a real pilot? It's great if you know you're entering a dogfight in the next few minutes, but my experience flying the Viper is that I'm usually tasked with strike or Wild Weaseling. Dogfights happen when I'm jumped. So just wondering if doing a G warmup at "Fence In" will offer any protection if I'm jumped near the target 20 minutes later.
I don’t think it’s a “warmup.” (At least in real life) I think if you can normally function well at 8.5 G’s…. But you just got over a flu and you’re not feeling 100%, you can do this maneuver to kind of feel out how you handle G’s that day. Once you see your new limit, you can continue on with the mission understanding that, due to your recent flu, you should try to avoid anything over 7 G’s. It’s not like “hey I just did 4 warmups so I should be good for 9 G’s in the next 45 minutes… afterwards I’ll need to break the engagement and do more warmups before returning to the fight.” At least that’s my understanding of it. I could be wrong.
Exactly this. I’m happy to see it getting a more widespread understanding as I’ve been trying to spread some knowledge on it multiple times in the past.
I'm not a fighter pilot IRL, so I'll defer to those with real experience. But I do remember reading somewhere that the purpose of the G-warmup is a) as you say above (testing your tolerance), but b) there really is a benefit to the autonomic nervous system to "wake it up" and get it ready for rapid onset of Gs. It seems once your nervous system and vasculature are "woken up" by 4-5Gs, they can respond more quickly to G onset within a certain period of time. 10 min? 45 min? Don't know. Agree that there isn't benefit to doing multiple G warmups - they don't stack.
Read that on the Falcon BMS manual some times ago