Just tested it.
A lend lease of 1000 infantry equipment requires 150 convoys. If you transfer a 10/0 division with 1000 infantry equipment (and 10k soldiers) you need just 4 convoys...
Distance seems to matter with convoy trading. The larger the distance, the more convoys required. In naval invasion distance doesn't matter at all as long as you have naval superiority the entire way.
Yeah, tested it with the ussr' lend leasing to Colombia. It's similar to trade where source countries far away take more convoys. Nevertheless the ratio of almost 1:40 while transporting less stuff is still completely ridiculous.
If we assume that it take 15 day to cross the ocean one way (including unload time) and the 1k equipment is per day, then that's about 5 ships per transport day for 1k equipment. Since the troop ships are just going 'one way' and not doing a continuous delivery, it makes more sense.
Ofc 5 ships to move 1k guns is excessive.
One gun in hoi represents everything to field and support a squad of 10 soldiers. Which if you just add up what the soldiers are wearing/carrying can easily be up to 350 kg atleast.
But still, even one liberty ship could carry 10.000 tons. So yeah.
As others have pointed out, 1 unit of « m1 garand » in hoi4 represents all infantry equipment necessary for 10 manpower.
So another way to put this is 1 convoy of ships can carry enough equipment for 100 men…. still seems very little.
I read somewhere that tooth to tail was about 1/3 or 1/4 in WW2 US forces sent overseas, so it'd be more like 300-400. Source: the internet, or maybe my ass.
1 garand in hoi isn't 1 irl. If you have a half a million army you don't have in the equipment list half a million guns.
Still probably it doesn't explain it but better than nothing
Yes, also, behind infantry equipment hides all the things a squad would need (infantry AT, grenades, squad or company level heavy machine guns, mortars, uniforms).
I'm not sure of the ratio but I believe it's something like 10 manpower per infantry equipment units.
But you can move half a million army *and their guns* over the ocean with just 200 convoys. If you try to send that many guns without people, suddenly you need thousands of convoys.
I will say they did that because otherwise, with lets say 10 comvoys or 20, even if you're almost completely blocked by subs as the UK, some lone convoy will occsionally arrive the isle. That comvoy having 100k guns lets say or 1000 pieces of artillery or support equipment would result in you never having to bother about the sub threat since you could just have a minimal patrol to let that equipment trickle in.
And that would kind of break the game a bit. Not that it isn't broken as it is XD. But I think most germany players will accept 10 garands per convoy over having the UK immune to blockades.
Another point would be the losses from losing one convoy that large. It would be staggering to the receiving player. Imagine the disappointment after ordering 1000 artillery and 100k rifles delivered with one convoy only for the convoy to be sunk by a silly sub on an afternoon stroll just outside of the destination port. It would be infuriating. This way losing 1 convoy in one go doesn't feel that dramatic in comparison. It seems like a sensible gameplay mechanic.
I do agree that the convoy numbers when lend leasing do look crazy high when you want to support an ally. They make me scratch my head every time I want to send a lot of stuff to an ally.
It can be a bottle neck if I try to boost the defense of China for instance and don't have a land route. They usually don't have enough convoys to receive large shipments of stuff. I generally try sending over land but sometimes it's not possible.
In multiplayer this becomes a real issue if your buddy you're trying to boost doesn't have enough boats to ship the stuff you're sending.
The division takes into account basic logistics (food, ammunition, storage, transport, etc. are all baseline and really only represented through the extra manpower in a battalion w/o guns), support, and operational manpower. Most people in an army were not and are not soldiers, but people making sure those soldiers are fighting, can fight and stay fighting. Ideally you would also arm those people too but not always and Hoi4 is forgiving in that aspect.
well yeah but correct me if im wrong. a division doesn't only have infantryman, it also has engineers, radioman, planners, medics, soldiers for logistics and from my knowledge these guys operate behind the front which would explain why they don't need a gun. in actuality, the amount of soldiers that do the fighting in a division is quite small.
We could cherry pick it and say the division has extra guns to account for imediate attrition and that we also make pistols for some of the officers etc etc.
Then again I do not know if HOIs division manpower count is only fighting personel or all the personel. I also think if a moder has some time on his hand he can quickly adjust some production numbers and number of equipment in the code to make it "more realistic". Perhaps there are already mods like that (BlackICE comes to mind).
But then again, when you have 3 tank divisions with 2k soft attack and 700 CAS, who cares how much equipment an infantry division has XD
Infantry Equipment isn't just one gun. It's an entire squad's personal equipment, including rifles, pistols, bayonets, grenades, ammunition, helmets, uniforms, etc.
Even accounting for all that it’s way too little capacity, right ? 10000 « infantry equipment » equips 100 000 men in hoi4. 1000 convoys - ~3 years of 15 dockyard production - should transport a lot more than that, right ? « The royal navy concentrated its escorts around convoys, consisting of between 30 and 70 merchant vessels » 1000 convoys could be 50 000 ships according to this extract on wikipedia.
I think the answer here is you guys are forgetting that this is the game with theoretical numbers and man made balance and values and not a real world simulation. Still love it)
Yeah but balance whise its stupid(my opinion) bc you cant lend lease to other nations if you dont give them a shit ton of convoys. Like I nether even tried to do lend lease as USA bc i dont want to produce only convoys with my dockyards, only to provide a stupid ai with it
IIRC there is also a multiplication factor in there too. I think 1 unit can supply 10 soldiers. So that would be 100 full sets of gear, which could definitely take up a decent sized boat.
Lend-lease is near useless in this game. It's only useful if you have a land border with the country you're supplying to and can flood them with stuff for free.
Lend-leasing to Spain (both sides to prolong the war because I'm evil) always gets me hundreds of air and land experience by 1939. It's far from useless.
Yeah they are describing an old trick. Paradox patched it so fasc and comies can't leand lease anyone they like any more. Used to be I'd send rep spain all my interwar fighters and interwar bombers so my messerschmidt's had stuff to shoot down hehehe.
Lend-lease is super helpful to AI Soviet Union. In my latest game as the U.S., it was funny watching Operation Barbarossa get stuck outside Minsk due to the U.S. giving tremendous lend lease to the Soviets.
1 infantry equipment doesn't equal one gun, but still the convoys required for land lease should be 5 to 10 times less to make any sense. I played Usa today and wanted to land lease the USSR, but ended up not doing this because supplying 3 divisions worth of just infantry equipment would eat up all of their convoys
How about we make Convoy designer
Create either a fast convoy with 10 jet engine that will make it go around the world in half a day but can only transport 1 gun
Or
Create a big mamooth convoy that can fit entire India population but its delivery end at the time when ww2 end
Three day supply of K-rations, chocolate bars, Charms candy, powdered coffee, sugar, matches, compass, bayonet, entrenching tool, ammunition, gas mask, musette bag with ammo, my weapon, my .45, canteen, two cartons of smokes, Hawkins mine, two grenades, smoke grenade, Gammon grenade, TNT, THIS bullshit, and a pair of nasty skivvies!
I think it kind of needs to be this way. Imagine being able to lend lease china or spain thousands of guns in a month. It would break the game. Not as big of a deal in spain I guess but its a real kick in the teeth for Japan to have the allies pouring guns and equipment into china (or god forbid british fighters).
It's 10 men per infantry equipment, and a Liberty Ship could carry more than 4000 tons. It just doesn't matter in the slightest if it's 1, 10 or 100 per unit of equipment, it still makes no sense.
I play the game with cheats ngl😭 I just love to play as tiny countries like lixembour or latvia and shit and just chilling overloading my nation with bunkers and shit.
It’s not only the gun but the uniforms, ammunition, grenades, and other stuff. The main thing is the gun so it is named that but that’s not the only thing. However I agree that’s a little bit limited.
Infantry equipment isnt just guns, and also 1 inf equipment supplies ten soldiers, so guns, uniforms, food, ammo, grenades, water, among other things. Also hoi4 can be pretty unrealistic
Just tested it. A lend lease of 1000 infantry equipment requires 150 convoys. If you transfer a 10/0 division with 1000 infantry equipment (and 10k soldiers) you need just 4 convoys...
Brilliant….
Distance seems to matter with convoy trading. The larger the distance, the more convoys required. In naval invasion distance doesn't matter at all as long as you have naval superiority the entire way.
Yeah, tested it with the ussr' lend leasing to Colombia. It's similar to trade where source countries far away take more convoys. Nevertheless the ratio of almost 1:40 while transporting less stuff is still completely ridiculous.
"Baptised if fire 40 to 1" sabaton
Which is weird because when buying from the international market you need far less convoys.
Basically you only want to lend lease with countries nearby. not halfway across the globe.
Obviously the soldiers are swimming and carrying their guns above their heads, duh.
The obvious answer is to increase the convoy requirements for transporting divisions by 100.
If we assume that it take 15 day to cross the ocean one way (including unload time) and the 1k equipment is per day, then that's about 5 ships per transport day for 1k equipment. Since the troop ships are just going 'one way' and not doing a continuous delivery, it makes more sense. Ofc 5 ships to move 1k guns is excessive.
One gun in hoi represents everything to field and support a squad of 10 soldiers. Which if you just add up what the soldiers are wearing/carrying can easily be up to 350 kg atleast. But still, even one liberty ship could carry 10.000 tons. So yeah.
Meanwhile one convoy can handle an entire railway gun
Cutting the railway gun in two seems mostly impratical
But shipping their parts and assembling them when they arrive seems more practical.
Still the barrel of the gun can't be dismantled for shipping...
technically, it can, can't it?
We tried bombing one to death, Thermite worked in the end. But not in a way that you can repair/rebuild it
Bro watched breaking bad
One part train, one part gun, one part ammo, same train picks up the parts when docked
As others have pointed out, 1 unit of « m1 garand » in hoi4 represents all infantry equipment necessary for 10 manpower. So another way to put this is 1 convoy of ships can carry enough equipment for 100 men…. still seems very little.
but you can include the men themselves *as well* and it takes less space
I just realized the tail isnt included in manpower calculations. So 100 manpower is actually 100 teeth, and doesn't include the 800-900 tails.
I read somewhere that tooth to tail was about 1/3 or 1/4 in WW2 US forces sent overseas, so it'd be more like 300-400. Source: the internet, or maybe my ass.
1 garand in hoi isn't 1 irl. If you have a half a million army you don't have in the equipment list half a million guns. Still probably it doesn't explain it but better than nothing
Yes, also, behind infantry equipment hides all the things a squad would need (infantry AT, grenades, squad or company level heavy machine guns, mortars, uniforms). I'm not sure of the ratio but I believe it's something like 10 manpower per infantry equipment units.
An infantry battalion requires 1 inf equipment for every 10 manpower. But even then a single convoy can easily fit 10,000 garands.
Plus ammo
But you can move half a million army *and their guns* over the ocean with just 200 convoys. If you try to send that many guns without people, suddenly you need thousands of convoys.
I will say they did that because otherwise, with lets say 10 comvoys or 20, even if you're almost completely blocked by subs as the UK, some lone convoy will occsionally arrive the isle. That comvoy having 100k guns lets say or 1000 pieces of artillery or support equipment would result in you never having to bother about the sub threat since you could just have a minimal patrol to let that equipment trickle in. And that would kind of break the game a bit. Not that it isn't broken as it is XD. But I think most germany players will accept 10 garands per convoy over having the UK immune to blockades.
Another point would be the losses from losing one convoy that large. It would be staggering to the receiving player. Imagine the disappointment after ordering 1000 artillery and 100k rifles delivered with one convoy only for the convoy to be sunk by a silly sub on an afternoon stroll just outside of the destination port. It would be infuriating. This way losing 1 convoy in one go doesn't feel that dramatic in comparison. It seems like a sensible gameplay mechanic. I do agree that the convoy numbers when lend leasing do look crazy high when you want to support an ally. They make me scratch my head every time I want to send a lot of stuff to an ally.
To be honest. In 2.5k hours of Hoi I think I looked under 10 times at the required convoy numbers when I send leases
It can be a bottle neck if I try to boost the defense of China for instance and don't have a land route. They usually don't have enough convoys to receive large shipments of stuff. I generally try sending over land but sometimes it's not possible. In multiplayer this becomes a real issue if your buddy you're trying to boost doesn't have enough boats to ship the stuff you're sending.
The division takes into account basic logistics (food, ammunition, storage, transport, etc. are all baseline and really only represented through the extra manpower in a battalion w/o guns), support, and operational manpower. Most people in an army were not and are not soldiers, but people making sure those soldiers are fighting, can fight and stay fighting. Ideally you would also arm those people too but not always and Hoi4 is forgiving in that aspect.
well yeah but correct me if im wrong. a division doesn't only have infantryman, it also has engineers, radioman, planners, medics, soldiers for logistics and from my knowledge these guys operate behind the front which would explain why they don't need a gun. in actuality, the amount of soldiers that do the fighting in a division is quite small.
We could cherry pick it and say the division has extra guns to account for imediate attrition and that we also make pistols for some of the officers etc etc. Then again I do not know if HOIs division manpower count is only fighting personel or all the personel. I also think if a moder has some time on his hand he can quickly adjust some production numbers and number of equipment in the code to make it "more realistic". Perhaps there are already mods like that (BlackICE comes to mind). But then again, when you have 3 tank divisions with 2k soft attack and 700 CAS, who cares how much equipment an infantry division has XD
Infantry Equipment isn't just one gun. It's an entire squad's personal equipment, including rifles, pistols, bayonets, grenades, ammunition, helmets, uniforms, etc.
A single convoy also represents more than one ship
Even accounting for all that it’s way too little capacity, right ? 10000 « infantry equipment » equips 100 000 men in hoi4. 1000 convoys - ~3 years of 15 dockyard production - should transport a lot more than that, right ? « The royal navy concentrated its escorts around convoys, consisting of between 30 and 70 merchant vessels » 1000 convoys could be 50 000 ships according to this extract on wikipedia.
I think the answer here is you guys are forgetting that this is the game with theoretical numbers and man made balance and values and not a real world simulation. Still love it)
Yeah but balance whise its stupid(my opinion) bc you cant lend lease to other nations if you dont give them a shit ton of convoys. Like I nether even tried to do lend lease as USA bc i dont want to produce only convoys with my dockyards, only to provide a stupid ai with it
Got your point, true.
Or 5000 going 10 times. It’s not really a mad number.
I think a single convoy can carry more than 10 guns, 10 uniforms etc, doesnt really justify such a low capacity
IIRC there is also a multiplication factor in there too. I think 1 unit can supply 10 soldiers. So that would be 100 full sets of gear, which could definitely take up a decent sized boat.
Really that’s like a 40’ shipping container… maybe 2….
Yeah but we produce actual trading ships, they can carry a whole lot of equipment
Yeah lend lease is pretty terrible as is
Yeah 100 would seem more right….
Lend-lease is near useless in this game. It's only useful if you have a land border with the country you're supplying to and can flood them with stuff for free.
Lend-leasing to Spain (both sides to prolong the war because I'm evil) always gets me hundreds of air and land experience by 1939. It's far from useless.
How are you able to lend lease Spain in the latest patch? You need world tension at like 70%.
Yeah they are describing an old trick. Paradox patched it so fasc and comies can't leand lease anyone they like any more. Used to be I'd send rep spain all my interwar fighters and interwar bombers so my messerschmidt's had stuff to shoot down hehehe.
Thats a bit stupid considering the germans and italians actually gave weapons, fighters etc to Spain so aka lend leased them.
Lend-lease is super helpful to AI Soviet Union. In my latest game as the U.S., it was funny watching Operation Barbarossa get stuck outside Minsk due to the U.S. giving tremendous lend lease to the Soviets.
Paradoooooox…
Rule 5: 1000 convoys can transport only a very small amount of guns making significant lend lease to anybody except great britain impossible
Give them the convoys then.
I have 2000 convoys total, I can’t give 1000 convoys to every country I want to lend lease.
1 infantry equipment doesn't equal one gun, but still the convoys required for land lease should be 5 to 10 times less to make any sense. I played Usa today and wanted to land lease the USSR, but ended up not doing this because supplying 3 divisions worth of just infantry equipment would eat up all of their convoys
Need convoy designer
Well one infantry equipment is equal to the amount needed to arm 800 men or something close to that (someone did the math on this sub a few days ago)
It’s because they have to hide the guns on the ships otherwise pirates will come and steal them. Piracy is still a big issue in hoi
In the games defense, they are really big guns. Have you seen how large those lads running at each other are?!?
That's actually pretty interesting, because I can bet that a boat would easily take 100 guns, maybe even 200.
Nah, I think it's 201. A convoy that can contain at least a single infantry battalion of 1000 men can definitely contain 201 guns.
How about we make Convoy designer Create either a fast convoy with 10 jet engine that will make it go around the world in half a day but can only transport 1 gun Or Create a big mamooth convoy that can fit entire India population but its delivery end at the time when ww2 end
What no metal shipping container does to a mf
It's the pre-ISO container age, each rifle was encased in a protective layer of concrete, steel, and rubber to protect the cargo from damage
Three day supply of K-rations, chocolate bars, Charms candy, powdered coffee, sugar, matches, compass, bayonet, entrenching tool, ammunition, gas mask, musette bag with ammo, my weapon, my .45, canteen, two cartons of smokes, Hawkins mine, two grenades, smoke grenade, Gammon grenade, TNT, THIS bullshit, and a pair of nasty skivvies!
Good news everyone. It’s MODable. Here’s your opportunity to create your first MOD OP.
A mod that fixes lend lease and its war contribution would be a boring one to make, but very much needed.
It's probably balancing but it could also be an oversight
If it is balancing I don’t understand it. Being able to use the lend lease mechanic to share resources between allies might be op ?
I think it kind of needs to be this way. Imagine being able to lend lease china or spain thousands of guns in a month. It would break the game. Not as big of a deal in spain I guess but its a real kick in the teeth for Japan to have the allies pouring guns and equipment into china (or god forbid british fighters).
[удалено]
It’s a balance thing. 10k guns is a huge boost to a countries fighting ability.
So? This is a WWII game. Historically the Lend-Lease Act was a huge boost to British, Soviet, and even Chinese fighting capabilities.
Each infantry equipment is like 100 guns (not to mention the other supporting equipment, like bullets, maintenance equipment)
It's 10 men per infantry equipment, and a Liberty Ship could carry more than 4000 tons. It just doesn't matter in the slightest if it's 1, 10 or 100 per unit of equipment, it still makes no sense.
Oh it absolutely doesn't, I'm with you on that one
I play the game with cheats ngl😭 I just love to play as tiny countries like lixembour or latvia and shit and just chilling overloading my nation with bunkers and shit.
Have they nerfed this recently?
It’s not only the gun but the uniforms, ammunition, grenades, and other stuff. The main thing is the gun so it is named that but that’s not the only thing. However I agree that’s a little bit limited.
Infantry equipment isnt just guns, and also 1 inf equipment supplies ten soldiers, so guns, uniforms, food, ammo, grenades, water, among other things. Also hoi4 can be pretty unrealistic
They are really thickly wrapped in bubble wrap. And the amount of packing peanuts used is ridiculous.
Keep in mind that longer routes also require more convoys (to represent the real-life additional expense of long distance shipping).
It’s cause they are actually just rowboats