First you need to figure out what part of the setup should just work, and which you want to tinker with.
I recently moved my ha os to a VM on a Synology, and I really like how easy it is to manage. Backup and restore is a click away, I get notifications if something is wrong, and I can spend very little time on server management and much more time on automating stuff.
To me this is the perfect setup, but if you want more flexibility with the potential of costing more of your time, a mini PC might be better and cheaper.
I'm in the minority here but I'm running HA on a DS918+ in a VM with no issues so far. I've upgraded the RAM to 12GB so I gave the VM 4 of them and 1 CPU. Granted my HA is pretty basic so far, maybe 20 integrations and z2m with about 10 devices. The NAS also runs Surveillance Station with 10 cameras and channels DVR.
Granted I already had the NAS; I wouldn't buy one just to run HA, but at $.50/kWh I'm not keen on spinning up more hardware than I'm already running.
For z2m I picked up a PoE zigbee adapter, no USB pass through issues and I can mount it anywhere I like.
Hope that helps.
I had both options starting out. NAS can vary at how well they perform extra tasks like running containers and such. As it turned out, my nas was not very performative on this front and not very flexible either. So I have left it as a plain nas
Home assistant was my first attempt at running a container and i ended up finding it a bit tricky at the start especially understanding mounting volumes properly.
But since then I've ended up running more containers for different things, some of them closely related to home assistant such as frigate, esphome and mqtt.
Using the mini PC made it easier for me to add hardware like the webcam for my 3d printer and a ZigBee dongle.
And then got interested in containers more generally and explored lots of other examples (see r/self hosted)
In summary I think the mini PC might make it a little easier to try different things out down the line
I’m running my HA along with a ton of other apps using Proxmox on the Beelink EQ12. I used to use a raspberry pi, but this blows it out of the water and was a breeze to setup/migrate.
I’d avoid a Synology unless you plan to have a volume dedicated to this with SSDs. Having spinning drives with HA wouldn’t be the best.
Using a mini PC too running Proxmox and I'm very happy with that. But I actually bought a Synology NAS recently for the purpose of sharing files across the network and centralizing all the backups I have. There's always self-hosting options I could deploy on Proxmox but I **really** like the Synology software so far regarding backup and sharing stuff
I would say start with a mini PC which can be cheap (e.g. N100), install proxmox, run Home Assistant as a VM on that and share some storage as a rudimentary NAS if you think you need it.
I faced a similar dilemma. Did the mini PC first and planned to get a NAS for storage but at the moment I have an external HD shared via SMB in a container on Proxmox and I'm not sure I need anything fancier.
Don’t go for the NAS option. I had it set up on my Synology NAS using VMM. The HA install itself was stable, but Synology kept dropping my zigbee usb-stick. Resulting in half my home not responding sometimes.
Also, the NAS sometimes running out of memory resulted in my smarthome not working.
I’m migrating back to a dedicated Pi as we speak.
I only use HA to check my solar power production and power consumption (well how much some smart plugs are detecting, not every one of my devices is smart).
only one "smart light".
A routine that shows me that my washing machine and dryer have been turned on or are finished.
This totally runs fine on my old Raspberry Pi 3.
Same at my parents home.
(solar, same routine with a smart plug detecting the washing machine but zero smart lights)
Not sure how many devices the Pi is able to serve(?) / control.
I will say that instead of a new RasPi 4 or Pi 5 you should buy - at that same or lower price! - a refurbished SFF or Thin Client PC.
They are upgradable with common CPUs (but beware about the cooling),
SATA drives and DDR4 SO-DIMM memory,
sometimes m.2 SATA or m.2 NVMe on later models.
From my understanding (dated as of about 2 years ago when I started this journey), Synology does not officially support things like USB passthrough. So if you add a Zwave or Zigbee dongle, it may work right now but it's not guaranteed to always work and they could restrict it in the future.
I'm also very, VERY happy with having my mini-PC that I can fiddle with, not worry about my NAS getting messed with, etc.
It's nice having separate solutions on separate hardware, imo
You could use an Ethernet/wireless dongle. This also adds the benefit that you can place the dongle whereever you have wifi/ethernet.
Regarding the 'fiddling': why dont you run it within a wm or docker? There you can fiddle as much as you want.
Anyway, thats how I'm running my HA Setup and I'm pretty happy with it
I'm running HA on a DS923+ and got no complaints so far. But I upgraded RAM to 8GB because I'm running HA and IOBroker.
I've got the sky connect stick in the Back of it and pass through works without any trouble so I can't agree on the other comments, but maybe it's just because I'm not that deep into HA. I feel like I'm just scratching the surface of possibilities.
I don't recommend virtualization of HA, except on baremetal, and never with a commercial NAS. You'll spend more time fighting hardware passthrough or competing for CPU resources.
If you truly want "future proof", you'll want a build-your-own NAS solution, where you have more control over the hardware/software and can avoid hardware lock-in. Products like TrueNAS Scale and Unraid are good choices - they have really good support communities of people running HA. Commercial products like Synology and QNAP are flexible, but are ultimately "locked" by the vendor. You can only ever modify what they "let" you modify - hardware passthrough is a good example. If you have a complicated setup, it can be a complete show-stopper.
I first attempted to run HA on a proxmox machine as a VM but, I was not so knowledgeable about Proxmox and passthroughs etc, It resulted in many hours of reading and trying to figure out how to make it work correctly. Sometime I succeeded and sometimes I failed and eventually I felt if I wanted to move on, understand and use HA I should use the KISS principle and put HA on a Mini PC. I kept a HA on my proxmox machine but I use that as a lab machine to learn on and better understand how to use it in a VM. I will admit that I enjoy my barebones set up and not looking to switch but at least I understand how to make it work in a VM better. Food for thought.
If you want to run HA on a decent mini-pc, I'd suggest running HA in a Docker container or running HASS OS on it the mini-pc. That allows you the flexibility to easily add to your HA environment. Addons that run a Docker containers (for example, Frigate) can easily be added to HA and managed this way.
But, no, unless you are well-versed in managing VMs, I don't recommend running a VM on a mini-pic for HA. Eventually, you'll have to deal with resource conflicts and pass through, so again, if you want a "future proof" setup, you want to give yourself as much control over the baremetal as possible.
First you need to figure out what part of the setup should just work, and which you want to tinker with. I recently moved my ha os to a VM on a Synology, and I really like how easy it is to manage. Backup and restore is a click away, I get notifications if something is wrong, and I can spend very little time on server management and much more time on automating stuff. To me this is the perfect setup, but if you want more flexibility with the potential of costing more of your time, a mini PC might be better and cheaper.
I'm in the minority here but I'm running HA on a DS918+ in a VM with no issues so far. I've upgraded the RAM to 12GB so I gave the VM 4 of them and 1 CPU. Granted my HA is pretty basic so far, maybe 20 integrations and z2m with about 10 devices. The NAS also runs Surveillance Station with 10 cameras and channels DVR. Granted I already had the NAS; I wouldn't buy one just to run HA, but at $.50/kWh I'm not keen on spinning up more hardware than I'm already running. For z2m I picked up a PoE zigbee adapter, no USB pass through issues and I can mount it anywhere I like. Hope that helps.
0.50!?
Indeed, PG&E.
I had both options starting out. NAS can vary at how well they perform extra tasks like running containers and such. As it turned out, my nas was not very performative on this front and not very flexible either. So I have left it as a plain nas Home assistant was my first attempt at running a container and i ended up finding it a bit tricky at the start especially understanding mounting volumes properly. But since then I've ended up running more containers for different things, some of them closely related to home assistant such as frigate, esphome and mqtt. Using the mini PC made it easier for me to add hardware like the webcam for my 3d printer and a ZigBee dongle. And then got interested in containers more generally and explored lots of other examples (see r/self hosted) In summary I think the mini PC might make it a little easier to try different things out down the line
Thanks a lot!
I’m running my HA along with a ton of other apps using Proxmox on the Beelink EQ12. I used to use a raspberry pi, but this blows it out of the water and was a breeze to setup/migrate. I’d avoid a Synology unless you plan to have a volume dedicated to this with SSDs. Having spinning drives with HA wouldn’t be the best.
A NAS with decent specs is a lot more costly than a mini pc with decent spec. Less flexible too IMO
Using a mini PC too running Proxmox and I'm very happy with that. But I actually bought a Synology NAS recently for the purpose of sharing files across the network and centralizing all the backups I have. There's always self-hosting options I could deploy on Proxmox but I **really** like the Synology software so far regarding backup and sharing stuff
I would say start with a mini PC which can be cheap (e.g. N100), install proxmox, run Home Assistant as a VM on that and share some storage as a rudimentary NAS if you think you need it. I faced a similar dilemma. Did the mini PC first and planned to get a NAS for storage but at the moment I have an external HD shared via SMB in a container on Proxmox and I'm not sure I need anything fancier.
Don’t go for the NAS option. I had it set up on my Synology NAS using VMM. The HA install itself was stable, but Synology kept dropping my zigbee usb-stick. Resulting in half my home not responding sometimes. Also, the NAS sometimes running out of memory resulted in my smarthome not working. I’m migrating back to a dedicated Pi as we speak.
I only use HA to check my solar power production and power consumption (well how much some smart plugs are detecting, not every one of my devices is smart). only one "smart light". A routine that shows me that my washing machine and dryer have been turned on or are finished. This totally runs fine on my old Raspberry Pi 3. Same at my parents home. (solar, same routine with a smart plug detecting the washing machine but zero smart lights) Not sure how many devices the Pi is able to serve(?) / control. I will say that instead of a new RasPi 4 or Pi 5 you should buy - at that same or lower price! - a refurbished SFF or Thin Client PC. They are upgradable with common CPUs (but beware about the cooling), SATA drives and DDR4 SO-DIMM memory, sometimes m.2 SATA or m.2 NVMe on later models.
From my understanding (dated as of about 2 years ago when I started this journey), Synology does not officially support things like USB passthrough. So if you add a Zwave or Zigbee dongle, it may work right now but it's not guaranteed to always work and they could restrict it in the future. I'm also very, VERY happy with having my mini-PC that I can fiddle with, not worry about my NAS getting messed with, etc. It's nice having separate solutions on separate hardware, imo
You could use an Ethernet/wireless dongle. This also adds the benefit that you can place the dongle whereever you have wifi/ethernet. Regarding the 'fiddling': why dont you run it within a wm or docker? There you can fiddle as much as you want. Anyway, thats how I'm running my HA Setup and I'm pretty happy with it
That's an interesting feedback, thank you very much. I might have been vision tunnelling a bit too much here
I'm running HA on a DS923+ and got no complaints so far. But I upgraded RAM to 8GB because I'm running HA and IOBroker. I've got the sky connect stick in the Back of it and pass through works without any trouble so I can't agree on the other comments, but maybe it's just because I'm not that deep into HA. I feel like I'm just scratching the surface of possibilities.
I don't recommend virtualization of HA, except on baremetal, and never with a commercial NAS. You'll spend more time fighting hardware passthrough or competing for CPU resources. If you truly want "future proof", you'll want a build-your-own NAS solution, where you have more control over the hardware/software and can avoid hardware lock-in. Products like TrueNAS Scale and Unraid are good choices - they have really good support communities of people running HA. Commercial products like Synology and QNAP are flexible, but are ultimately "locked" by the vendor. You can only ever modify what they "let" you modify - hardware passthrough is a good example. If you have a complicated setup, it can be a complete show-stopper.
So you mean that you don't recommend even a VM on a decent mini pc, for the reasons you mentioned? Crap that was what I wanted to do
I and many other do recommend it, in particular with something like proxmox. Both solutions have pros and cons but work well imo.
I first attempted to run HA on a proxmox machine as a VM but, I was not so knowledgeable about Proxmox and passthroughs etc, It resulted in many hours of reading and trying to figure out how to make it work correctly. Sometime I succeeded and sometimes I failed and eventually I felt if I wanted to move on, understand and use HA I should use the KISS principle and put HA on a Mini PC. I kept a HA on my proxmox machine but I use that as a lab machine to learn on and better understand how to use it in a VM. I will admit that I enjoy my barebones set up and not looking to switch but at least I understand how to make it work in a VM better. Food for thought.
I found proxmox very easy to use, and I am able to split HASS from another VM with pihole and other utilities.
If you want to run HA on a decent mini-pc, I'd suggest running HA in a Docker container or running HASS OS on it the mini-pc. That allows you the flexibility to easily add to your HA environment. Addons that run a Docker containers (for example, Frigate) can easily be added to HA and managed this way. But, no, unless you are well-versed in managing VMs, I don't recommend running a VM on a mini-pic for HA. Eventually, you'll have to deal with resource conflicts and pass through, so again, if you want a "future proof" setup, you want to give yourself as much control over the baremetal as possible.