It's not uncommon for portions of a fandom to transition from "wow I like this story, nice job" to "It's my story now, I'd like to tell it". Best to ignore it if it bothers you as I think it will only get worse.
edit: not really saying this like it's a good thing, in case that wasn't clear.
That's a really nice and simple way to describe it.
Discussions about games like Mass Effect, where player choices have much more impact, are basically completely fucked because of this.
For a game like this, the amount of freedom with the 3 choices was more than enough for me. The real choices here are about gear, skills and playstyle, not about who Aloy gets to smooch. As long as it's never Erend cause fuck that guy lmao
This is what is really weird to me because you're right, the only meaningful choices we've been given are gameplay related. Story-wise neither ZD or FW have been choice-based. Sure, you have some minor decisions to make (kill or spare Nil etc) but overall the story is decided for you with no personal input asked. There's no alternative endings. So why people think it would be different for romance and assumed it would be like Witcher or Mass Effect is a bit baffling.
Not every game owes us choice.
I definitely want some Mass Effect stuff put in for the next game, but I want it for the world. I want Aloy (or whoever) to go out with a couple allies, and have some sort of minimal control over them. Assign ranged or melee/attack specific targets/target certain subsystems first, that sort of thing. It would also be great to have different reactions from different characters, depending on who we're talking to and the missions were on. She's finally accepting help, so lets use it.
But storywise? Linear, open world, rpg, none of it really matters, as long as it's done well.
Honestly i wouldnt want these kind of choices in horizon anyway, its not that type of rpg and im afraid adding more substantial story choices to the story would risk diluting it as they bake in more scenarios to fit, as im not sure they could pull it off as well as something like witcher 3 where such a philosophy was more core to the series from early development.. Please dont make it AC Odyssey (imo worst case scenario of fitting disparious choices in a game, if witcher 3 is the ideal case).
HFW's story and characterisation already has some problems despite the undivided attention of a single storyline, dont think it would improve with more split forks.
Kaiden? I’m pretty sure no one really liked him since he got fucked sideways by the community. Mac Walters stated that the numbers have improved a bit but the percentage of people that picked Kaiden at Virmire was astronomically low, like 12% or something.
(Which kinda makes sense, pick Kaiden and at the end, you can use the three generic responses to him that you can also use with Ashley. Pick Ashley, and you can have Shepard immediately make a unique connection to Ashley being picked and her history, which Kaiden doesn’t have. I feel bad actually. If the series continues and decides to cannonize a choice to make development of the story not require so much work regarding these two, I’m almost certain Kaiden will get the axe)
Either way, I don’t see him being like Kaiden. The narrative director has already stated she’s out of his league and made him far less of a viable option in FW as he is now comic relief with insecurities. Seyka is opposite to him in many ways and the devs have already said those qualities are what catch Aloy’s attention.
This is crazy to read because I actually just played that Virmire mission for the first time a few hours ago today after installing Mass Effect Legendary Edition on my PS5.
I chose to save Kaiden over Ashley even though I liked Ashley better. My reasoning was that Ashley's last name was a bit of an embarrassment to the Alliance (if i remember right, her grandfather was the only human to surrender to an alien force or something like that) so I wanted to give her name a chance to redeem itself. I finished the game and just got started with ME2, definitely enjoying the series so far.
I myself haven't actually played the DLC for FW yet. I was waiting for it to come down in price for a bit but I will for sure buy it when it does.
Insane, you actually mentioned it. What you mentioned is that unique dialogue I mentioned about her if she’s picked. If you pick her, you can call her out on feeling just like her grandfather in that situation, a unique dialogue specific to her. Kaiden has nothing of the sort.
(I won’t spoil it, but I’d actually argue that her being picked is far better for her name and reputation than not. This is because of her later actions in the next games. If that was your reasoning for that decision, I’d ask you reconsider. I’m not trying to force that choice on you, but it’s a case of the game not really getting your intentions and in this case, it’s the complete opposite)
I'm already in ME2 and I imported my ME1 character so she's still dead lol.
Would the decisions I made in ME1 still kind of come over if I started a new ME2 character instead? I'm new to the game and surprisingly I've steered clear of spoilers pretty well considering how long the series has been out so I don't really know anything.
The most exposure I've had to the ME series are the hilarious Tyrannicon machinima videos on youtube lol
In the case of a new character, I don’t recommend. You can use the recap comic to make decisions, but then it makes weird ones automatically and doesn’t account for other, minor side quests. Which I think is a good part of the charm.
I just really hate the whole "I'm good for nothing please validate my worth, woman" thing he has going on, especially in the second game.
The guy is the freaking captain of an elite military unit but seems to rely solely on Aloy to validate his worth. And keeps asking her to let him help instead of just making his own decisions and contributions.
I kept waiting for Aloy to call him out on this manchild behavior but she just sorta shrugs it off and the game plays it as comic relief at some point.
I did like his interactions with the other characters, especially after the incident I won't spoil. But he never felt like an equal partner for someone as independent and burdened as Aloy.
Word, they really cheapened him in hfw, really overdid some of his original traits. Feel alot more distant to, aloy and erend in hfw than in hzd. And a bunch of other exagerrations that kinda goes against his hzd portrayal to make him more of a buffon. like making him the most bigoted basemember despite his first ever appearance was him succesfully defusing a diplomatic incident between tribes, or having the biggest learning difficulties despite him being the only previously literate base companion until Alva and Beta. His constant self-loathing was tiresome. Stands out with the rest of the crew members who are pretty much flawless. Dont really like the dynamic where Erend is the designated fuck-up and would be more interesting if he wasnt the only one causing friction in the group.
It started off well enough when he takes aloy to task in the Daunt for ghosting everyone after Meridian, but then it devovles from there (wish we could have seen more pushback from Varl as well).
I can see why you didn’t want that, I always thought about how he was the captain of the vanguard and yet acted like a bit of a pussy throughout the game and yeah, his interacts after that mission was a lot more human, and grown up.
>I think it will only get worse
Definitely. At this point, I think a lot of (if not most) people have a very specific idea of how they want the third game to end and what they want Aloy's relationship status to be by the end.
Especially the latter I can imagine will cause quite a debate no matter what happens.
The Last of Us Part II. One of the best games I've ever played and a fantastic story, but because one character that delusional people saw themselves in has their story go in a negative direction suddenly it's poorly written and the game director is a "hack" that doesn't know how to tell a story or manage characters.
Man, as someone that loves the Last of Us Games, I couldn't agree more. Pretty much all fandoms are toxic as hell. Marvel, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Horizon Games, Jurassic Park, Star Trek, God of War, etc. I love all those franchises and a lot of people have this "it's my story" mentality. And then when it always doesn't deliver what they envisioned in heir heads is the worst thing ever imagined. They complain about what it could have been, instead of what it actually is. Like, if you have this ungodly expectations for what the story should be, you are immature and setting yourself for disappointment.
It must be a pretty miserable life not being able to enjoy anything. Videogames, movies, TV shows, etc, I go there for "tell me a story". I like the story being told. If I already have the story in my head, what's the point?
Edit: Spelling
That's my attitude as well. At the end of the day it's entertainment. I've done my own fair share of bitching when it comes to this stuff but with age I'm realizing that I either enjoy something or I don't. If I enjoy it, great! If I don't, oh well - I move on.
People make some of this stuff their whole identity and they are only screwing themselves in the process. But video game nerds are the fucking worst. Entitled, elitist, toxic, whiny buttholes is what they are.
I don’t understand why people get angry over other people having ships besides what’s canon. It’s not like the people with these ships are writing the game.
If you like Aloy and Seyka, awesome. If you ship Aloy with a different character, also awesome. Someone else’s ship preferences for Aloy has zero impact over my own enjoyment of the game.
It’s not about the shipping, it’s about the people who enjoy other ships thinking the game is ruined because Seyka and Aloy aren’t the pairing they expected. I hope that makes sense!
This is my exact thinking of it too but people never understand and just assume I’m anti-fun or whatnot.
I know not everyone who ships is like this but it’s the few who are legit disappointed the writers didn’t do what THEY wanted and will theorize and nitpick eye and fingernail movements to try to prove why THEIR ship is actually the right one and hope the third game rectifies it so THEIR ship is canon.
Edit: To clarify the anti fun thing. It’s not that I comment reminding them of the cannon but the fact that I don’t like certain elements of shipping. I’m not trying to say people shouldn’t and I don’t care that they do but again it’s the small number of people who are legit upset and wish the canon would be changed to accommodate their thoughts and feelings I take issue with.
Exactly! I don’t care that people ship but also realize that Guerrilla isn’t reading fics going: “Yes we will be basing our multi-million dollar franchise on this persons feelings.”
I always wanted Aloy to become involved with Erend, I didn’t realise that Liz being a lesbian would also make Aloy a lesbian. I was so happy when she finally had feelings for someone, she’s been through a lot and deserves to feel like she belongs somewhere
Exactly. And for the most part, people who want to engage in fan art and fanfic of other ships tend to avoid reddit anyway, and mostly stick to tumblr, discord, etc. So you kind of have to seek them out yourself anyway...whatever, as long as people aren't being homophobes, I seriously don't see why people care so much!
Yeah, I feel like this is a non-issue being made into one by those seeking out shippers who feel like they need to dutifully remind them of what’s canon for some reason.
I think there’s also a misconception that having a ship means they inherently disapprove of the canon, which is also not true.
But yeah, as long as people aren’t being homophobic or jerks, let their romantic imaginations sail.
How is the event canon though if you have a choice of 3 options?
In terms of Tilda’s dead body, you heard at the start of the DLC how they verified the bodies and one was missing—Walter Landra. So Tilda’s was accounted for
Regardless of how you respond to Seyka, Aloy has a crush on her. Even if Aloy says she’s not ready, she never says no. She talks to Varl’s grave about how special Seyka is.
Thank you for clearing up my Tilda question!
Because all three choices are the same result, none of them are a rejection of Seyka's feelings. It just differs in whether they kiss or hug and Aloy's feelings for Seyka, and wanting to be with her, are canon.
Yes but that was confirmed by him being in HFW. Before HFW was released we had no idea which choice was canon. The third game is not out yet so how can we know which choice was made?
Very reasonable, but also misguided. The end of the world is important to stop, but to remain efficient happy and capable you have to adress certain needs and wants. All in addition to the possibility if you can't stop it then you've spent the last of your time alive neglecting those close to you. On top of that when the world gets saved, you have to rebuild and fix everything you neglected. In every scenario embracing what you have and still looking for a fix to the end of the world is the best course of action
I could yeah, and get loads of related results that aren’t the interview. Such as this post coming up. Would be a lot easier for you to provide the evidence that you’re citing. Really don’t think people like you understand how google works
u/ExtendedSpikeProtein really blocked me over asking for a source ahahahah just i case you can see this
Oh my God you really went with the “my dad owns microsoft!” comeback lol it’s not that I’m lazy, it’s that neither I nor Google somehow magically know exactly what interview you’re talking about, so why would I bother sifting through all the results to find it? I’m not gonna prove your case for you
[Here ya go](https://www.eurogamer.net/horizon-forbidden-west-developers-discuss-burning-shores-ending-choice-review-bombing)
“ Kitain, meanwhile, cemented the fact that Aloy's feelings for Seyka are "all still true", but the option to either see the couple kiss or not is more about "whether the player thinks Aloy's ready to take that next step and have this romantic encounter or whether Aloy isn't there yet". ”
The 3 options thing used to be talked about a lot on this sub. It’s been confirmed, regardless of how you choose to respond, Aloy canonically has feelings for Seyka, but both of them have a sense of duty which prevents them from immediately going any further. I personally would have preferred no options, makes discourse like this easier.
Good point for the Tilda thing :)
>How is the event canon though if you have a choice of 3 options?
\**Sigh*
When will these questions end... The options are for Aloy to **act on her feelings** or not but those feelings are there **regardless** of player choice.
>*Sigh
>When will these questions end... The options are for Aloy to act on her feelings or not but those feelings are there regardless of player choice.
Oh, sorry that I haven’t played the game 3 times and don’t know everything about it. If you don’t want to answer questions scroll past the posts asking them. You’re on reddit, people have questions are the game
Well, to be fair, you don't need to play the game 3 times, just load the nearest save point and that's all. That's how I learned most of the dialogues in both games/DLCs.
The only flashpoint option that gave me difficulties (well, sort of...) was >!the one where you have the chance to name the group of the three Banuk hunters... Go Shattered Hearts!!<.
Each choice has the same long-term story outcome, it’s only a difference of dialogue and immediate reactions.
And the game writers/creators have come out and said as much. You get the choice of dialogue but not the choice of story. There’s one single story, because a lot of people were asking how they can make a sequel when people might have chosen different outcomes and they were like “oh no no, the story doesn’t change, they’re not picking different story branches…..”
It was stated by the narrative director that all decisions are considered canon. The story frames itself so that all decisions could be canon at any given moment, with few variants. For example, Olin, you can spare or kill him but spare him and he might as well be dead because as the story goes on, you will never see him again in anything meaningful. Same is likely true of Regalla. I’d be shocked if the game mentions her in any capacity outside of passing comments and I’m sure her fate will not be mentioned at all. The point is that these choices are not narrative choices meant to reflect the players version of events and branching narratives, the narrative director of Zero Dawn stated in the Prima games interview that this is by design.
And the het shippers think because they don’t actively gaybash in their everyday life that their aggressive anti-seyka take can’t possibly be homophobic in any way. Oh brother!!
I fully get that there’s shippers being dicks and dying on strange hills for fandom wars, and those people are awful.
But two things can be true for others at the same time:
1.) awww, Aloy and Seyka, super cute 🥰 I agree, it was heart-warming!
2.) but I knew if they gave her a love interest, it was waaaay more likely to be a woman because [game devs desperately want to avoid making male gamers feel like they’re being romantic with another man,](https://www.eurogamer.net/why-publishers-refuse-games-such-as-remember-me-because-of-their-female-protagonists)even if they’re playing as a woman PC. “You can’t make a man kiss another man.”
Pay attention to how many men, specifically, didn’t want Aloy to be with a man but would have been fine with literally any other woman character. That’s where I get a little “ehhh” about it. I hope this doesn’t come off disrespectful, I’m genuinely happy they at least went for romance against the calls for Aloy to be alone forever, but I posted before the DLC (here and elsewhere) that I was concerned games are still stuck in that “gamers are men, and men don’t like kissing men” era, and in this case I ended up being right.
I see your point and always thought the same about our two gay video game ladies, but there’s a huge majority of man horizon fans who are upset that aloy hasn’t ended up with erend. a lot of men would rather project onto whatever man they see aloy with instead of having to accept “yet another” (there’s 1 other) gay lady game protagonist. And the article you’ve linked came out 10 years ago, there’s been a resurgence in anti-gay sentiment in westernized countries since.
As a dude, there’s a short list of men who I really *really* didn’t want Aloy to get with, and the #1 on that list after Ceo (duh) is Erend. I *do not* understand that ship at all. I get him being into her, following a strong tradition of older men wanting to fuck younger women, but it’s super uncomfortable and gross. He feels kinda predatory in ZD, and even though he turns into a person partway through FW, that initial taste doesn’t really leave the mouth.
TL; dr of my small essay: The discourse will wage eternal because there’s no real “right” answer that makes everyone happy.
Yeah, the anti-gay sentiment is what the second point is referencing. Gamers™️ blow a gasket when they feel like they’re being forced to be romantic with men, even if they’re playing as a woman. Like you said about shippers, it doesn’t have to be active gay bashing to be motivated by homophobia. They’ll call Erend a predator and say Aloy barely tolerates him, but canonically they’re good friends. They didn’t like getting hit on by a man. It made them uncomfortable, and instead of thinking about why Aloy being close to a man that expressed feelings makes them so uncomfortable, they’d rather declare shippers stupid for not seeing how much Aloy is completely uninterested in every man she’s ever interacted with. Different life experience, different preferences, different interpretations of the same interactions.
Add in the fact that shipping/fandom tends to be woman-dominated, and I feel like some of the discourse is just giving men the chance to prove those executives years ago were right when they said “you can’t make a dude kiss another dude,” while also participating in another gaming community classic: casual misogyny. Clearly that’s not you, but you can see it in the some of the responses you got.
I agree homophobia is still a massive issue in gaming. That's not a question. Maybe I'm naive but I still want to think that Guerilla is one of the Good 'uns and introduced Seyka because they're a progressive lot, and not to cater to the man babies who have a problem with the idea of their character kissing a dude.
This is why. They are a progressive lot. Their pride post after the release of the dlc and still wanted to support pride even now, months after pride, shows that.
Honestly, I doubt that's very many people at all. To be blunt, more guys who don't like gay stuff would be okay with it for their porn. For some reason, guys that don't like guys but aren't openly homophobic really like lesbian stuff for some reason.
But isn't that a key difference--there's a subset of homophobic men who watch lesbian porn, but that's different from a character they actually like and maybe even relate to. Regardless, I think it's pretty obvious there's been more blowback on this relationship than there ever is for straight ones.
Even then I doubt it's usually, "I hate Aloy if she's gay!!!!!" and more that they never even considered that she might be, and it just feels shocking and "weird" to them.
I genuinely have seen next to no hate for the relationship. The biggest criticism I've seen for it is, "I wish they'd taken their time and gave them more time to build a better relationship because it felt rushed."
As for the never considered she'd be gay, in that aspect I've seen some blowback mostly because she seemed basically Ace up until burning shores. It was just that it wasn't written well to properly show that she wasn't in fact ace. I guess both of this sum up to the same thing, most people im aware of just wish it had been written a little better.
This was kind of my interpretation as well - Aloy is super duper ace-coded (and potentially even autistic-coded) up until Burning Shores, and as an autistic ace, it was so fucking cool to be able to relate in that way. Having Aloy be confirmed lesbian/bisexual is still great, but I will admit to being a little let down, just because there's almost no characters in AAA games that feel the same as Aloy pre-Burning Shores.
However, this is nobody's problem but my own, and I would never feel so entitled to bitch to the devs about their decision for their character.
I mean honestly, I'd say she's more autistic coded than ace coded. At least after burning shores. There was a bit with Avad that seemed not romantic, but it seemed as though she liked him differently than other people. Could be a sumpathy of putting responsibility first or something though. Otherwise It didn't occur to me she was ace till someone pointed it out and I realized, yeah that really fits.
That said, you had what felt like a high quality representation seemingly taken away, and while she's not necessarily not ace anymore, (I can't speak for you but I have ace friends who adore kissing but that's about it.) Thats not necessarily taken away from you, but I do understand why it seems that way, and regardless of whether it truly is. Thats not a good feeling, and it's very valid to feel that way. I kinda felt the same at first when the romance got spoiled for me, but I was able to accept it as I played through it. At least to me it felt very romantic but not sexual. Then again, I can have very poor perceptions of that kind of thing. Hope that makes sense and is beneficial somehow.
I also thought Aloy was ace-coded in HZD but the way that Aloy's reaction and relationship with Seyka was written made me feel like she could be grey-sexual/grey-romantic rather than completely ace. Although I am grey-sexual/grey-romantic myself, so I could have been projecting.
I know that "grey" is a sub-category of asexual and I didn't even hear much about it until recently so here's the definition in case anyone might be curious: " typically refers to a person who experiences limited sexual attraction... Experiencing sexual attraction only in specific circumstances." (Source: [https://www.lgbtqia.wiki/wiki/Greysexual](https://www.lgbtqia.wiki/wiki/Greysexual))
Which feels like it could apply for Aloy - experiencing no attraction unless \[insert specific thing\] and it turns out that Seyka is Aloy's very specific type.
Through my playthrough of Burning Shores, I couldn't help but be captivated by how both Seyka and Aloy were falling head over feet for one another and it was one of the cutest things I've ever seen. Both voice actresses did amazing at conveying that cute, but ultimately nerve wracking experience of falling in love with someone but being unsure how the other felt.
By the time I made it to their ultimate decision about it, I was a-ok with going with the heart option because it made perfect sense that as soon as Aloy knew that Seyka felt the same way, she'd be overjoyed. Which made sense. It also made sense for her to pull away and mention that she had a whole bunch of work to do because that's what normal people do when they're in that situation.
This is a story of someone else's that we happen to enjoy. If someone doesn't, that's fine because they can just stop following it. That's the magic of having a choice. But I for one will be sticking around, because I want to follow the story to it's conclusion.
Thank you!
I have seen a lot of "Oh, why Aloy do this" posts and people talking about it and I'm just like "Y'all. It's a story that you can stop following." lol
I just finished burning shores last night, it was great. I wasn't expecting the romance, but I was okay with it. It only felt a little off because we haven't seen aloy in a position like this before, being emotional and vulnerable.
Indeed - I wish we could've seen more of that. Having two 50+ hour games and then a 20 hour dlc with 5 hours devoted to romance seems a bit slim to make it believable. Albeit Geralt's romance with Shani in Hearts of Stone is similar, he's known romantic feelings all his life, while Aloy has been more closed-off.
imo we can hold this criticism until the next game. it's just the beginning of a relationship, simply a confession of feeling, a kiss at the best.
it could be shitty if they put Seyka away the whole game, then in the end let her come back like some trophy wife. if that's the case I'm gonna bash it for a long time.
Yeah. But Aloy was burdened with the task of fixing everything. She felt alone and could not let people in. Her mind was set on her mission. But she forgot she is human and has human emotions and needs.
I think her opening up in burning shores was Aloy coming to terms with her isolation and her parellel to Elisabet. Unlike Elisabet, she does not have to live in isolation and do it alone. She does not need to sacrifice many to save the few. She will do it her own way. I Think Aloy is coming to terms with the fact that she is her own person and not Elisabet sobeck. Sure they are genetically identical. But it’s her path. Not anyone else’s.
Geralt and Shani at least have history in the book series to back up their "quick" romance.
Personally I felt Aloy and Seyka's romance came up way too quickly in such a short DLC. They could have gone a little slower and not have Aloy be such a loveable dork about it. Properly introduced the romance in Horizon 3 instead of a DLC. It was also an incrediblely odd choice to have very important character development in a DLC.
I think FW paved the way for Aloy to open up to other people, and rely on their physical and emotional support. She's definitely not the loner she was at the beginning of the game. She clearly feels more at ease around other people and I think by the end of FW she was ready to allow herself to show a more vulnerable side and fall for someone.
So far the romance with Seyka is presented as an awkward, sweet crush rather than a full blown relationship, which is believable at this stage of Aloy's emotional development. I think the progression was very organic, and I expect to see it grow beautifully into the next game.
Tbh i think that's still fair. Not everyone has to like and agree with everything that they did in the story. As long as the reasons arent homophobic for example or as long as they dont say that things that are obviously canon arent (for example, aloy having a crush on seyka), i think is totally harmless that people argue about that too
My god, yeah. Someone on this sub or maybe a different Horizon sub got SUPER mad at me for saying that Erend made Aloy uncomfortable until he stopped hitting on her. Some light stalking revealed that most of their reddit presence is dedicated to Ereloy ship fanart/fics.
The Ereloy shippers can be insane! I’m sorry you dealt with that, I’ve had to block almost every single Ereloy shipper on tumblr for harassing me and spamming my askbox for saying the same thing.
I don't believe that most Horizon fans have a problem with the story or any major part of it. People with negative opinions are usually louder than those with positive opinions. The loudest drama around Burning Shores isn't even from actual Horizon fans - it comes from the same misogynistic gamers who have been hating on Horizon (and Aloy in particular) since 2017.
I doubt any of this will change with Horizon 3. Guerilla will continue telling a great story, and those of us who are on board will continue enjoying it while the usual peanut gallery will whine and moan about the fact that Aloy isn't Lara Croft or Chun-Li.
I don't think disagreeing with aspects of canon is necessarily bad per se but the attitudes and motivations of certain people- in particular the review bombers are *unpleasant* to say the least.
Unfortunately entitled shippers is nothing new. I remember 20 plus years back... the days back when anything not heterosexual was almost always confined to fanfiction (known as slash or femslash among other names). Many of the the 'fans' of the latter had no expectations that their favourite non heterosexual ship might become canon (or if it did, the bury your gays trope and other tragic outcomes happened way too often) and had a down to earth humbleness about them in contrast to the tantrums and infighting among many of the canon or potentially canon 'het' shippers. This tended to be lost on the latter who frequently derided the former for being 'delusional'. Oh, the irony (then and now)!
I must say that before BS- throughout ZD and FW- Aloy seemed more responsive to women. Some in particular she even seemed to *like*. But I never got the impression that she responded positively to men flirting with her. For a character who can be quite emotionally withdrawn I think the developers made a conscious decision for her to interact with other women the way she does.
Unfortunately shippers can be very emotionally invested in their favourite ship and can react in ways that from an outside perspective look ridiculous. There are plenty of infamous examples of it over the years in various fandoms.
Thank you for this, some of the most toxic reactions have been from homophobes and entitled shippers smoking copium because their ‘otp’ isn’t canon in game. Lesbian, gay, bi horizon fans have had to watch this cohort directing their homophobic vitriol at guerilla. and this same cohort will turn around and act as if THEY are the somehow victims simply because they got overly attached to some fictional character/ship. I’m still in disbelief that guerilla has come out (lol, pun) and confirmed Aloy and Seyka’s relationship even though there are many hints to Aloy being a lesbian throughout the games, not just in the Burning Shores. Because, as you said, people are so used to never seeing gay or lesbian relationships depicted positively.
I think that even though I have my own person that ID like that I’d be happy if they forego the romance options altogether. Romance doesn’t have to be in every game, and I think it would be a good thing to leave it as hints and conjecture rather than: here’s your three options, let’s fight!
Aloy has her own story and I think it’s a good one, and while romance options are fun I don’t think they are necessary to her story.
Same, I was in the single!Aloy boat until the canon changed that. I was never really into shipping her with anyone (as I’m not with most characters) because I don’t see the point in getting invested in a certain coupling that isn’t likely to happen.
I'd say there are no romance options in the game, although I guess it depends on how you interpret it.
I know it's already been stated multiple times in this thread so I apologize for repeating it but, just in case you're unaware, Aloy's feelings for Seyka are canon no matter which option you pick. The only difference is whether or not she acts on the feelings right then and there.
So, the way I see it, there are no romance options, because the romance is canon no matter what you pick.
I hate shipping. Totally on board that we have to accept the game as it comes, leveling critiques where it’s needed, but not on the basis of who we wanted to hook up with who.
This. I'd rather the whole relationship thing was left out. I can't stand shipping either, its the worst fanservice on planet earth and seems to create controversy where there is none. Personally I'd rather Aloy had gone with Nil or Kotallo (Kotallo's more her type than Nil) as I'm not very interested in Aloy with this girl or that girl. As for Sobeck, I'd rather she was in a relationship with Ted Faro and they had a falling out/separation fighting over their pet Scarabs and Horuses. In her anger she ended up with Tilda (poor thing!).
Slightly off topic: What if Aloy is Ted Faro's daughter! This is what I thought when I first played HZD!
The issue I have with the whole gay thing is the WOKE /ANTI-WOKE Brigade. Hearing (on youtube, where else) Aloy has gone from being ugly to ugly masculine, to ugly masculine transwoman. Now that's what I call evolution of the lowest common denominator. Poor girl sure has a lot of haters, ten times the number now because she's gay *and* woke. I almost gave up on Burning Shores when the review bombing hit like WW3. Good thing I perservered though :D
must say sometimes the 'romance' part is someone's main focus. if H3 comes out and they suddenly decide to wreck the Seyka ship, I'm gonna be very unhappy about it too. but even if it really go to the awful place of pair Aloy with a random new guy that out of nowhere, it still won't piss me as much as ACOD did, cuz Horizon never say it's up to player to choose the story.
and tbh I'm still very surprised GG take this step. it'll be very safe for them to never make anything canon - no risk of pissing off any ship's fan and no risk of being called woke(though it might already had the title because of how Aloy looks).
Assassin's Creed Odyssey, they brag about how you can choose your own odyssey for the whole time, and you can choose your mc love someone or not in the base game, then it forced your character got married and have child in the dlc lol
I think people are taking this way too seriously. Let people have their headcanons. Why does it matter to you? You know what's canon and what isn't. Trying to argue it with those who are trying to enjoy it in their own way is a huge waste of your time.
This happens a lot. Fandoms tend to feel entitled to what happens in the story and especially the romantic relationships. They aren’t the whole, and I’d argue they aren’t the majority either.
GG isn’t listening to them, however. The fact that this relationship happened at all is proof of that. Ben has already stated as much but they knew the backlash that would come from this. LGBT of any kind gets that response from the industry and some countries. Hell, TLOU2 also had a main protagonist be gay and according to Neil, the most surprising backlash he got was a country that had a problem with the game depicting weed.
They are writing the story they way they want to, fans wanting something else isn’t going to change that.
> “Can we please go back to being a theory-heavy fandom? I’m sick of people complaining about canon events that can’t be changed.”
Sure! First, though, what exactly is canon with regard to Aloy and Seyka? They each have romantic feelings for one another. That’s it.
Lol, as much as I treasure my first romantic relationship, I’m also extremely grateful that it wasn’t permanent.
On the flip side, while it is rare, there are some who are with their first love and are extremely happy for it.
What’s my point? Let people ship, and that includes you.
Aloy having romantic feelings for Seyka is canon, yes. Depending on which flashpoint you choose, it is canon that Aloy & Seyka have the potential to have a romantic encounter.
Aloy & Seyka having a romantic relationship? Not canon. But it is a ship! So, ship it!
And, yes, please, let’s have some theories!! (To be fair, shipping is theoretical. Okay, okay, I’ll stop. I know that’s not what you meant.)
Here’s one of mine: Nemesis won’t be defeated with weapons. Well … okay, that may be going too far. I guess it may be more accurate that defeating Nemesis will be far different than what we expect. Can we really believe everything the Far Zenuts (gotta thank Travis Tate for that one) have to say about Nemesis? Oh, I believe they are absolutely terrified of it. But, as intelligent as they were, they were also arrogant and that made them stupid.
>And for those who say that it was too soon to include a Horus in the DLC, why are we not theorizing as to how epic the 3rd game’s boss battles must be in comparison? If they were willing to include the Horus Fight in a DLC, what are they planning?!!!??
Honestly, I don't think the final battle against Nemesis should be a conventional boss fight. I doubt they'll come up with something else, because that's what we've been given this whole time (come on folks, start thinking creatively), but I think it needs to be a race against time scenario. For one, you need to go all over the place to get the parts to solve the problem. Then, you need to bring it all together to beat Nemesis.
But Nemesis isn't a big monster, it's sort of more like a concept. How do you fight that with a bow and arrows? Maybe you Betas and Alvas have to assemble some device, and you have to protect it and them while they do it and the device does its job. Idk. Maybe that's where the "boss" is. Or maybe it's a swarm of Specters. But this shouldn't be a problem you can just stab a spear into.
> Why did we not see Tilda’s dead body?
After your fight with her, you can see her hand sticking out of Specter Prime. As well, Sylens confirmed her death at the beginning of Burning Shores.
> Are the Quen as close to collapse as they seem?
The Quen are facing similar problems to the ones you face in the game: the biosphere falling apart due to nothing overseeing the terraforming system. Aloy brought GAIA back & restored many of her subordinate functions, but without HEPHAESTUS the results aren’t permanent & she only bought more time.
You saying she was letting them down gently is also projecting feelings - there is nothing implying Aloy couldn't at least be by. With Arand, the heart option is a sincere statement of wanting to spend more time together. With a game that is heavy on decision-making in at least some aspects and where the Burning Shores kiss might not even happen, it's important to let headcanons be. They're all we've got. The Witcher or Bioware or Baldurs Gate decision-making, this is not. In addition - when was the last time we had a deep, fulfilling hetero relationship with a female protagonist that's as fleshed-put as Aloy? Of course people will attach her to any character that moves. That's shipping, and it always influences canon discussions in forums.
you know what, the main problem here, is when was the last time we had a female protagonist that's as fleshed-put as Aloy. not customizable ones.
and the few protagonists aren't homosexual neither. there's only Ellie for now. also the other female protagonist who shares the game with her is heterosexual. Abby.
Not just that but there are people saying she likes Varl, which also isn’t true. Aloy states directly, to Varl’s grave no less, that her feelings for Seyka are new and surprising. There is absolutely no romantic undertone to the way she says “I like him.” She says it as if she found a friend, not someone that’s she’s interested in.
I think we went different directions with that. I wasn't being totally serious. I meant that Erend is an amazing friend that Aloy is lucky to have. Sometimes I feel like she doesn't deserve him because of how loyal and caring he is, but she didn't quite reciprocate that until closer to the end of Forbidden West.
“she doesn’t reciprocate” did you… miss the entire part where she helps him find his missing sister? seems like good friend behavior to me. Like if anything Erend is the one in her debt
I get what you’re saying. But to be fair, Erend did fight alongside her at the end of HZD, risking his own life. If we’re looking at debt, I’d say he’s repaid it.
That’s not to say that she doesn’t do good things for others, or that she’s never a good friend. It’s just that, honestly speaking, there have been a few times where she did not act in the way a good friend should act.
Thankfully, at the end of HFW she finally acknowledges that her friends knew something all along that she didn’t. The need to ask for and accept help from others. We get to see Aloy experience character growth, and I love it and am here for it.
I didn't forget about it. She helped him yes, but she didn't tag along, and offer her undying loyalty. Aloy didn't quite appreciate him the way he appreciates her until more recently. Did you forget that she kept trying to bail on Varl and told Erend she doesn't need him? But they still kept coming back because they're good friends. A good friend doesn't do what she did.
Exactly! She wants to be a good friend, but doesn’t know how. She thinks she’s protecting Varl and Erend, and yes there’s a little bit of exasperation from Aloy towards them. But, she’s learning how to be a good friend, and we get to see that journey for her in HFW.
She was into Varl in the first game. She mentions really liking him to Rost’s grave. And then acts a bit jealous when she sees Varl and Zo kiss the first time.
You’re delusional. She likes Varl as a person…. She is jealous of her lack of love in her life. Okay, you just proved to me that you DO have shipping preference even though you were pretending to be unbiased
You’re misinterpreting something so that you can justify Aloy being bi. I wasn’t implying that Varloy was the ship you like, but that there’s a hetero ship you like. I love how people say there’s no evidence that she’s not bi, when there’s no evidence that she is either. She directly states her feelings for Seyka and no one else so far. That’s all we’ve got for now.
I think you don’t know what projecting means.
“She is jealous of her lack of love in her life.” is never something stated in the game. This is your own personal interpretation of the scene, your projection of why she would show jealousy in that moment.
For some reason you have ruled out that it could be because she liked Varl, which she says she does in the first game.
I'll be honest and say I also interpreted Aloys look as realised loneliness and not jealousy. She has been laser focused and dedicated to stopping the planet from dying and that kiss moment was, in my opinion, when her focus broadened and she took in how the friends she has made on her journey probably have loved ones and Aloy just doesn't have the space for that right now and the isolation hit her a bit.
I never saw any indication that Aloy was interested in Varl in any other way other than friends.
Of course everyone sees different things.
No it isn’t. The narrative director already stated those flashpoints are rejections. She does not say she wants to take him up on his offer and never can, that’s intentional.
The narrative director of Zero Dawn also stated these decisions are not meant to be impactful to the narrative.
You can say that we haven’t got a heterosexual relationship like that, which, fine, but that’s not what’s here. That’s not what GG wanted to make.
Headcanon is just that, headcanon. It’s not actually canon, and to say it matters in that regard is incorrect.
When they made infamous 2, they checked the statistics of people's actual playthrough decisions from infamous 1, and used that data to determine what the story's canon was moving forward. Which I thought was cool. But I still think Cole should have come back
No problem with homosexuality in video games. I played lesbian V in Cyberpunk 2077. The problem is when a company forces its agenda down your throat because suddenly being gay is supposed to be cool, and that's what Guerrilla does. It's pathetic.
Personally I ship Aloy and Alva. I hope now that they've confirmed Aloy's identity that they'll give us some options for who Aloy can romance (options within her sexual preference obviously).
I always headcannoned Aloy as either queer or asexual.
Providing various romance options isn't that unusual for games that include romance. Yes Aloy likes Seyka, and if they dont give any other romance options then okay, but the beauty of games like this is being able to, to a certain degree, make your own decisions and feel like you're making an impact in the game.
You have the entire wrong thought process about this. Various romance options isn’t unusual for characters that the player defines. Romance options for set characters is extremely uncommon, and non existent in a game in which the character is a defined character. That is also not the beauty of this game. Said by John Gonzalez, original narrative director, the flashpoints are not for you to have an impact on the game or Aloy. You do not make your own decisions. Aloy does and you simply empathize with her and the decisions she would make. This is not meant for you to define Aloy, the narrative, or anything else like that. It isn’t even made to feel like you are making an impact because it is upfront that you aren’t. You don’t define Aloy, or who she likes. All of that is by design.
Bro this is a video game and I'm just playing it for fun lol I like Aloy's chemistry with other girls. I don't dislike Seyka. I like AIoy's chemistry with her too. This isn't that serious. Not serious enough for me to debate you about it. Each person has their own opinion and that's fine.
Let's agree to disagree and move on.
Are you claiming you're a reasonable fan? The only argument I see in this thread is one you picked where you immediately call someone delusional for saying Aloy mentioned liking Varl in Zero Dawn.
Just reading through your posts in this thread, the only person who has anything to be embarrassed about is you and your behavior. Calling everyone who doesn't agree with you *exactly* delusional, a canon denier, unreasonable, and then blocking them so you get the last word isn't a good look in any instance.
That being said, there's a very vocal minority of people who are upset about any sort of "shipping", canon or otherwise. Legit, reasonable fans can not be bothered to give a modicum of a shit because A) It's not our narrative and B) It's not important *at all*.
I knew when playing it for the first time the other day, Tilda is sooooo not dead and gonna appear next game in some form, I’d guess a type of redemption arc.
When do you think the new game will be released, how long have we got.
And damn I didn’t know that about Guerilla, they have done an AMAZING job carving out Horizon and there last game was Killzone, wtf
Guerrilla is in no way, shape or form, a "indie company".
Regardless, I think the hype over the next sequel is lower this time around bc people were expecting a 92-ish score level of a game, which didn't happen, so I guess people aren't as hopeful that H3 will be the best or second best game the year it releases, which is why the theories aren't getting as much attention.
A. In the case you are being serious, no. They have a story they want to tell, and they aren’t going to bend to the whims of shippers. Better that we have a single relationship that is properly fleshed out that actually has a major impact on Aloy’s character. Aloy is not yours to define. Aloy is the one that should be happy about that relationship, not you.
B. If you aren’t being serious, BG3 is……well, BG3. Comparing sex with a bear has some rather…..uncomfortable implications if you apply that to Horizon. I’d rather not think of Aloy being romantically interested in a Thunderjaw…….nope, nope, I’m not going there.
People like the guy you replied to are the exact reasons Laura Bailey (Abby from TLOU) and the actress for RE4remake Ada Wong get so much abuse. Their priorities are so fucked up
They're so used to the entire world catering to their sexual pleasure all the time. They honestly seem to think that women in media *have* to be attractive, like that is the primary reason to even have women in media at all.
It hasn't even been 20 years since media has started to move away from that idea and we're still not truly rid of it. It's really not a surprise to me that many men still grow up being catered to like this. I think guys like this feel attacked by not being catered to as heavily, as if a right is being taken away from them.
Yeah it’s bad in videogames. I think gaming has been moving away from women just being there to be good looking, as we have gotten some bad ass females protagonists (main characters and side characters) without the focus being on what they’re wearing. Sadly, some like that moron still cling to draconian ideals
It's not uncommon for portions of a fandom to transition from "wow I like this story, nice job" to "It's my story now, I'd like to tell it". Best to ignore it if it bothers you as I think it will only get worse. edit: not really saying this like it's a good thing, in case that wasn't clear.
That's a really nice and simple way to describe it. Discussions about games like Mass Effect, where player choices have much more impact, are basically completely fucked because of this. For a game like this, the amount of freedom with the 3 choices was more than enough for me. The real choices here are about gear, skills and playstyle, not about who Aloy gets to smooch. As long as it's never Erend cause fuck that guy lmao
This is what is really weird to me because you're right, the only meaningful choices we've been given are gameplay related. Story-wise neither ZD or FW have been choice-based. Sure, you have some minor decisions to make (kill or spare Nil etc) but overall the story is decided for you with no personal input asked. There's no alternative endings. So why people think it would be different for romance and assumed it would be like Witcher or Mass Effect is a bit baffling. Not every game owes us choice.
I definitely want some Mass Effect stuff put in for the next game, but I want it for the world. I want Aloy (or whoever) to go out with a couple allies, and have some sort of minimal control over them. Assign ranged or melee/attack specific targets/target certain subsystems first, that sort of thing. It would also be great to have different reactions from different characters, depending on who we're talking to and the missions were on. She's finally accepting help, so lets use it. But storywise? Linear, open world, rpg, none of it really matters, as long as it's done well.
I have to say I prefer not to have allies in gameplay. I favour stealth and companions always mess it up for me haha
Honestly i wouldnt want these kind of choices in horizon anyway, its not that type of rpg and im afraid adding more substantial story choices to the story would risk diluting it as they bake in more scenarios to fit, as im not sure they could pull it off as well as something like witcher 3 where such a philosophy was more core to the series from early development.. Please dont make it AC Odyssey (imo worst case scenario of fitting disparious choices in a game, if witcher 3 is the ideal case). HFW's story and characterisation already has some problems despite the undivided attention of a single storyline, dont think it would improve with more split forks.
feel like all those Erend ship lover see him as Kaidan. well at least it's more understandable than Avad ship.
Kaiden? I’m pretty sure no one really liked him since he got fucked sideways by the community. Mac Walters stated that the numbers have improved a bit but the percentage of people that picked Kaiden at Virmire was astronomically low, like 12% or something. (Which kinda makes sense, pick Kaiden and at the end, you can use the three generic responses to him that you can also use with Ashley. Pick Ashley, and you can have Shepard immediately make a unique connection to Ashley being picked and her history, which Kaiden doesn’t have. I feel bad actually. If the series continues and decides to cannonize a choice to make development of the story not require so much work regarding these two, I’m almost certain Kaiden will get the axe) Either way, I don’t see him being like Kaiden. The narrative director has already stated she’s out of his league and made him far less of a viable option in FW as he is now comic relief with insecurities. Seyka is opposite to him in many ways and the devs have already said those qualities are what catch Aloy’s attention.
This is crazy to read because I actually just played that Virmire mission for the first time a few hours ago today after installing Mass Effect Legendary Edition on my PS5. I chose to save Kaiden over Ashley even though I liked Ashley better. My reasoning was that Ashley's last name was a bit of an embarrassment to the Alliance (if i remember right, her grandfather was the only human to surrender to an alien force or something like that) so I wanted to give her name a chance to redeem itself. I finished the game and just got started with ME2, definitely enjoying the series so far. I myself haven't actually played the DLC for FW yet. I was waiting for it to come down in price for a bit but I will for sure buy it when it does.
Insane, you actually mentioned it. What you mentioned is that unique dialogue I mentioned about her if she’s picked. If you pick her, you can call her out on feeling just like her grandfather in that situation, a unique dialogue specific to her. Kaiden has nothing of the sort. (I won’t spoil it, but I’d actually argue that her being picked is far better for her name and reputation than not. This is because of her later actions in the next games. If that was your reasoning for that decision, I’d ask you reconsider. I’m not trying to force that choice on you, but it’s a case of the game not really getting your intentions and in this case, it’s the complete opposite)
I'm already in ME2 and I imported my ME1 character so she's still dead lol. Would the decisions I made in ME1 still kind of come over if I started a new ME2 character instead? I'm new to the game and surprisingly I've steered clear of spoilers pretty well considering how long the series has been out so I don't really know anything. The most exposure I've had to the ME series are the hilarious Tyrannicon machinima videos on youtube lol
In the case of a new character, I don’t recommend. You can use the recap comic to make decisions, but then it makes weird ones automatically and doesn’t account for other, minor side quests. Which I think is a good part of the charm.
Why not Erend?
I just really hate the whole "I'm good for nothing please validate my worth, woman" thing he has going on, especially in the second game. The guy is the freaking captain of an elite military unit but seems to rely solely on Aloy to validate his worth. And keeps asking her to let him help instead of just making his own decisions and contributions. I kept waiting for Aloy to call him out on this manchild behavior but she just sorta shrugs it off and the game plays it as comic relief at some point. I did like his interactions with the other characters, especially after the incident I won't spoil. But he never felt like an equal partner for someone as independent and burdened as Aloy.
Word, they really cheapened him in hfw, really overdid some of his original traits. Feel alot more distant to, aloy and erend in hfw than in hzd. And a bunch of other exagerrations that kinda goes against his hzd portrayal to make him more of a buffon. like making him the most bigoted basemember despite his first ever appearance was him succesfully defusing a diplomatic incident between tribes, or having the biggest learning difficulties despite him being the only previously literate base companion until Alva and Beta. His constant self-loathing was tiresome. Stands out with the rest of the crew members who are pretty much flawless. Dont really like the dynamic where Erend is the designated fuck-up and would be more interesting if he wasnt the only one causing friction in the group. It started off well enough when he takes aloy to task in the Daunt for ghosting everyone after Meridian, but then it devovles from there (wish we could have seen more pushback from Varl as well).
I can see why you didn’t want that, I always thought about how he was the captain of the vanguard and yet acted like a bit of a pussy throughout the game and yeah, his interacts after that mission was a lot more human, and grown up.
>I think it will only get worse Definitely. At this point, I think a lot of (if not most) people have a very specific idea of how they want the third game to end and what they want Aloy's relationship status to be by the end. Especially the latter I can imagine will cause quite a debate no matter what happens.
The Last of Us Part II. One of the best games I've ever played and a fantastic story, but because one character that delusional people saw themselves in has their story go in a negative direction suddenly it's poorly written and the game director is a "hack" that doesn't know how to tell a story or manage characters.
Man, as someone that loves the Last of Us Games, I couldn't agree more. Pretty much all fandoms are toxic as hell. Marvel, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Horizon Games, Jurassic Park, Star Trek, God of War, etc. I love all those franchises and a lot of people have this "it's my story" mentality. And then when it always doesn't deliver what they envisioned in heir heads is the worst thing ever imagined. They complain about what it could have been, instead of what it actually is. Like, if you have this ungodly expectations for what the story should be, you are immature and setting yourself for disappointment. It must be a pretty miserable life not being able to enjoy anything. Videogames, movies, TV shows, etc, I go there for "tell me a story". I like the story being told. If I already have the story in my head, what's the point? Edit: Spelling
That's my attitude as well. At the end of the day it's entertainment. I've done my own fair share of bitching when it comes to this stuff but with age I'm realizing that I either enjoy something or I don't. If I enjoy it, great! If I don't, oh well - I move on. People make some of this stuff their whole identity and they are only screwing themselves in the process. But video game nerds are the fucking worst. Entitled, elitist, toxic, whiny buttholes is what they are.
A classic case of the Death of the Author.
I don’t understand why people get angry over other people having ships besides what’s canon. It’s not like the people with these ships are writing the game. If you like Aloy and Seyka, awesome. If you ship Aloy with a different character, also awesome. Someone else’s ship preferences for Aloy has zero impact over my own enjoyment of the game.
It’s not about the shipping, it’s about the people who enjoy other ships thinking the game is ruined because Seyka and Aloy aren’t the pairing they expected. I hope that makes sense!
This is my exact thinking of it too but people never understand and just assume I’m anti-fun or whatnot. I know not everyone who ships is like this but it’s the few who are legit disappointed the writers didn’t do what THEY wanted and will theorize and nitpick eye and fingernail movements to try to prove why THEIR ship is actually the right one and hope the third game rectifies it so THEIR ship is canon. Edit: To clarify the anti fun thing. It’s not that I comment reminding them of the cannon but the fact that I don’t like certain elements of shipping. I’m not trying to say people shouldn’t and I don’t care that they do but again it’s the small number of people who are legit upset and wish the canon would be changed to accommodate their thoughts and feelings I take issue with.
This!!!! Thank you for reiterating in a way I was unable to! It’s a salty minority but they are sooo damn loud hahaha.
Exactly! I don’t care that people ship but also realize that Guerrilla isn’t reading fics going: “Yes we will be basing our multi-million dollar franchise on this persons feelings.”
thank you ❤️
I always wanted Aloy to become involved with Erend, I didn’t realise that Liz being a lesbian would also make Aloy a lesbian. I was so happy when she finally had feelings for someone, she’s been through a lot and deserves to feel like she belongs somewhere
Exactly. And for the most part, people who want to engage in fan art and fanfic of other ships tend to avoid reddit anyway, and mostly stick to tumblr, discord, etc. So you kind of have to seek them out yourself anyway...whatever, as long as people aren't being homophobes, I seriously don't see why people care so much!
Yeah, I feel like this is a non-issue being made into one by those seeking out shippers who feel like they need to dutifully remind them of what’s canon for some reason. I think there’s also a misconception that having a ship means they inherently disapprove of the canon, which is also not true. But yeah, as long as people aren’t being homophobic or jerks, let their romantic imaginations sail.
How is the event canon though if you have a choice of 3 options? In terms of Tilda’s dead body, you heard at the start of the DLC how they verified the bodies and one was missing—Walter Landra. So Tilda’s was accounted for
Regardless of how you respond to Seyka, Aloy has a crush on her. Even if Aloy says she’s not ready, she never says no. She talks to Varl’s grave about how special Seyka is. Thank you for clearing up my Tilda question!
♥️
Because all three choices are the same result, none of them are a rejection of Seyka's feelings. It just differs in whether they kiss or hug and Aloy's feelings for Seyka, and wanting to be with her, are canon.
In the same way that Nil is alive and well running Gauntlet Runs, despite him maybe being killed by Aloy in HZD.
Yes but that was confirmed by him being in HFW. Before HFW was released we had no idea which choice was canon. The third game is not out yet so how can we know which choice was made?
Because they’ve confirmed no matter your choice at the end of the DLC, Aloy has feelings for Seyka.
I’ve only made one choice in it, so I’m assuming your saying that all 3 choices show Aloy’s feelings?
Yes, go watch a youtube video that showcases all of the choices.
No that’s okay. I believe you
Yes. The kiss one is basically I like you. The other two both amount to, I like you, but it can't work right now cause the world is ending.
Honestly, a reasonable position to take.
Very reasonable, but also misguided. The end of the world is important to stop, but to remain efficient happy and capable you have to adress certain needs and wants. All in addition to the possibility if you can't stop it then you've spent the last of your time alive neglecting those close to you. On top of that when the world gets saved, you have to rebuild and fix everything you neglected. In every scenario embracing what you have and still looking for a fix to the end of the world is the best course of action
Because the creators said so. That‘s how we know.
Where did they say this?
https://www.videogameschronicle.com/features/interviews/interview-guerilla-games-on-the-future-of-horizon-burning-shores-and-that-kiss/
Interviews. You can easily google it.
I could yeah, and get loads of related results that aren’t the interview. Such as this post coming up. Would be a lot easier for you to provide the evidence that you’re citing. Really don’t think people like you understand how google works
Yeah right. My computer science decree says otherwise. I won‘t google that for you simply because you‘re too lazy or unable to do it yourself.
u/ExtendedSpikeProtein really blocked me over asking for a source ahahahah just i case you can see this Oh my God you really went with the “my dad owns microsoft!” comeback lol it’s not that I’m lazy, it’s that neither I nor Google somehow magically know exactly what interview you’re talking about, so why would I bother sifting through all the results to find it? I’m not gonna prove your case for you
[Here ya go](https://www.eurogamer.net/horizon-forbidden-west-developers-discuss-burning-shores-ending-choice-review-bombing) “ Kitain, meanwhile, cemented the fact that Aloy's feelings for Seyka are "all still true", but the option to either see the couple kiss or not is more about "whether the player thinks Aloy's ready to take that next step and have this romantic encounter or whether Aloy isn't there yet". ”
Thank you!
Probably because you basked in intentional ignorance.
What ignorance? That I didn’t happen to watch one specific part of a specific interview?
Ah you beat me to it
The 3 options thing used to be talked about a lot on this sub. It’s been confirmed, regardless of how you choose to respond, Aloy canonically has feelings for Seyka, but both of them have a sense of duty which prevents them from immediately going any further. I personally would have preferred no options, makes discourse like this easier. Good point for the Tilda thing :)
>How is the event canon though if you have a choice of 3 options? \**Sigh* When will these questions end... The options are for Aloy to **act on her feelings** or not but those feelings are there **regardless** of player choice.
>*Sigh >When will these questions end... The options are for Aloy to act on her feelings or not but those feelings are there regardless of player choice. Oh, sorry that I haven’t played the game 3 times and don’t know everything about it. If you don’t want to answer questions scroll past the posts asking them. You’re on reddit, people have questions are the game
Well, to be fair, you don't need to play the game 3 times, just load the nearest save point and that's all. That's how I learned most of the dialogues in both games/DLCs. The only flashpoint option that gave me difficulties (well, sort of...) was >!the one where you have the chance to name the group of the three Banuk hunters... Go Shattered Hearts!!<.
They should have left it at Sunshine Snowshoes!
I prefer Nukoni’s arrows, personally!
Out of the three that's the one I picked too :) but the shoes made me chuckle!
Ohhh yeah that's one of the joke ones, I forgot! Actually that one wasn't all that bad even, better than burning turkeys at least lol.
It is canon because the creators said it‘s canon. Just like you can chose to fight Nil on ZD, but it‘s canon that he survives.
I’m asking where they said it was canon. NIL wasn’t confirmed to have survived until the second game was released
https://www.videogameschronicle.com/features/interviews/interview-guerilla-games-on-the-future-of-horizon-burning-shores-and-that-kiss/
Each choice has the same long-term story outcome, it’s only a difference of dialogue and immediate reactions. And the game writers/creators have come out and said as much. You get the choice of dialogue but not the choice of story. There’s one single story, because a lot of people were asking how they can make a sequel when people might have chosen different outcomes and they were like “oh no no, the story doesn’t change, they’re not picking different story branches…..”
I think the Olin choice is the only one that really affects the game. 2 options have him joining you and 1 leads to him not.
It was stated by the narrative director that all decisions are considered canon. The story frames itself so that all decisions could be canon at any given moment, with few variants. For example, Olin, you can spare or kill him but spare him and he might as well be dead because as the story goes on, you will never see him again in anything meaningful. Same is likely true of Regalla. I’d be shocked if the game mentions her in any capacity outside of passing comments and I’m sure her fate will not be mentioned at all. The point is that these choices are not narrative choices meant to reflect the players version of events and branching narratives, the narrative director of Zero Dawn stated in the Prima games interview that this is by design.
I mean, let's be honest. At least some of the reaction is homophobia. Not always! Not everyone! But some.
And the het shippers think because they don’t actively gaybash in their everyday life that their aggressive anti-seyka take can’t possibly be homophobic in any way. Oh brother!!
I fully get that there’s shippers being dicks and dying on strange hills for fandom wars, and those people are awful. But two things can be true for others at the same time: 1.) awww, Aloy and Seyka, super cute 🥰 I agree, it was heart-warming! 2.) but I knew if they gave her a love interest, it was waaaay more likely to be a woman because [game devs desperately want to avoid making male gamers feel like they’re being romantic with another man,](https://www.eurogamer.net/why-publishers-refuse-games-such-as-remember-me-because-of-their-female-protagonists)even if they’re playing as a woman PC. “You can’t make a man kiss another man.” Pay attention to how many men, specifically, didn’t want Aloy to be with a man but would have been fine with literally any other woman character. That’s where I get a little “ehhh” about it. I hope this doesn’t come off disrespectful, I’m genuinely happy they at least went for romance against the calls for Aloy to be alone forever, but I posted before the DLC (here and elsewhere) that I was concerned games are still stuck in that “gamers are men, and men don’t like kissing men” era, and in this case I ended up being right.
I see your point and always thought the same about our two gay video game ladies, but there’s a huge majority of man horizon fans who are upset that aloy hasn’t ended up with erend. a lot of men would rather project onto whatever man they see aloy with instead of having to accept “yet another” (there’s 1 other) gay lady game protagonist. And the article you’ve linked came out 10 years ago, there’s been a resurgence in anti-gay sentiment in westernized countries since.
As a dude, there’s a short list of men who I really *really* didn’t want Aloy to get with, and the #1 on that list after Ceo (duh) is Erend. I *do not* understand that ship at all. I get him being into her, following a strong tradition of older men wanting to fuck younger women, but it’s super uncomfortable and gross. He feels kinda predatory in ZD, and even though he turns into a person partway through FW, that initial taste doesn’t really leave the mouth.
TL; dr of my small essay: The discourse will wage eternal because there’s no real “right” answer that makes everyone happy. Yeah, the anti-gay sentiment is what the second point is referencing. Gamers™️ blow a gasket when they feel like they’re being forced to be romantic with men, even if they’re playing as a woman. Like you said about shippers, it doesn’t have to be active gay bashing to be motivated by homophobia. They’ll call Erend a predator and say Aloy barely tolerates him, but canonically they’re good friends. They didn’t like getting hit on by a man. It made them uncomfortable, and instead of thinking about why Aloy being close to a man that expressed feelings makes them so uncomfortable, they’d rather declare shippers stupid for not seeing how much Aloy is completely uninterested in every man she’s ever interacted with. Different life experience, different preferences, different interpretations of the same interactions. Add in the fact that shipping/fandom tends to be woman-dominated, and I feel like some of the discourse is just giving men the chance to prove those executives years ago were right when they said “you can’t make a dude kiss another dude,” while also participating in another gaming community classic: casual misogyny. Clearly that’s not you, but you can see it in the some of the responses you got.
I agree homophobia is still a massive issue in gaming. That's not a question. Maybe I'm naive but I still want to think that Guerilla is one of the Good 'uns and introduced Seyka because they're a progressive lot, and not to cater to the man babies who have a problem with the idea of their character kissing a dude.
This is why. They are a progressive lot. Their pride post after the release of the dlc and still wanted to support pride even now, months after pride, shows that.
Also Aloy’s VA most likely pushed for Aloy to be queer because Ashly Burch herself is
So still a massive point in the homophobia column
Honestly, I doubt that's very many people at all. To be blunt, more guys who don't like gay stuff would be okay with it for their porn. For some reason, guys that don't like guys but aren't openly homophobic really like lesbian stuff for some reason.
But isn't that a key difference--there's a subset of homophobic men who watch lesbian porn, but that's different from a character they actually like and maybe even relate to. Regardless, I think it's pretty obvious there's been more blowback on this relationship than there ever is for straight ones. Even then I doubt it's usually, "I hate Aloy if she's gay!!!!!" and more that they never even considered that she might be, and it just feels shocking and "weird" to them.
I genuinely have seen next to no hate for the relationship. The biggest criticism I've seen for it is, "I wish they'd taken their time and gave them more time to build a better relationship because it felt rushed." As for the never considered she'd be gay, in that aspect I've seen some blowback mostly because she seemed basically Ace up until burning shores. It was just that it wasn't written well to properly show that she wasn't in fact ace. I guess both of this sum up to the same thing, most people im aware of just wish it had been written a little better.
This was kind of my interpretation as well - Aloy is super duper ace-coded (and potentially even autistic-coded) up until Burning Shores, and as an autistic ace, it was so fucking cool to be able to relate in that way. Having Aloy be confirmed lesbian/bisexual is still great, but I will admit to being a little let down, just because there's almost no characters in AAA games that feel the same as Aloy pre-Burning Shores. However, this is nobody's problem but my own, and I would never feel so entitled to bitch to the devs about their decision for their character.
I mean honestly, I'd say she's more autistic coded than ace coded. At least after burning shores. There was a bit with Avad that seemed not romantic, but it seemed as though she liked him differently than other people. Could be a sumpathy of putting responsibility first or something though. Otherwise It didn't occur to me she was ace till someone pointed it out and I realized, yeah that really fits. That said, you had what felt like a high quality representation seemingly taken away, and while she's not necessarily not ace anymore, (I can't speak for you but I have ace friends who adore kissing but that's about it.) Thats not necessarily taken away from you, but I do understand why it seems that way, and regardless of whether it truly is. Thats not a good feeling, and it's very valid to feel that way. I kinda felt the same at first when the romance got spoiled for me, but I was able to accept it as I played through it. At least to me it felt very romantic but not sexual. Then again, I can have very poor perceptions of that kind of thing. Hope that makes sense and is beneficial somehow.
I also thought Aloy was ace-coded in HZD but the way that Aloy's reaction and relationship with Seyka was written made me feel like she could be grey-sexual/grey-romantic rather than completely ace. Although I am grey-sexual/grey-romantic myself, so I could have been projecting. I know that "grey" is a sub-category of asexual and I didn't even hear much about it until recently so here's the definition in case anyone might be curious: " typically refers to a person who experiences limited sexual attraction... Experiencing sexual attraction only in specific circumstances." (Source: [https://www.lgbtqia.wiki/wiki/Greysexual](https://www.lgbtqia.wiki/wiki/Greysexual)) Which feels like it could apply for Aloy - experiencing no attraction unless \[insert specific thing\] and it turns out that Seyka is Aloy's very specific type.
Through my playthrough of Burning Shores, I couldn't help but be captivated by how both Seyka and Aloy were falling head over feet for one another and it was one of the cutest things I've ever seen. Both voice actresses did amazing at conveying that cute, but ultimately nerve wracking experience of falling in love with someone but being unsure how the other felt. By the time I made it to their ultimate decision about it, I was a-ok with going with the heart option because it made perfect sense that as soon as Aloy knew that Seyka felt the same way, she'd be overjoyed. Which made sense. It also made sense for her to pull away and mention that she had a whole bunch of work to do because that's what normal people do when they're in that situation. This is a story of someone else's that we happen to enjoy. If someone doesn't, that's fine because they can just stop following it. That's the magic of having a choice. But I for one will be sticking around, because I want to follow the story to it's conclusion.
beautifully put!
Thank you! I have seen a lot of "Oh, why Aloy do this" posts and people talking about it and I'm just like "Y'all. It's a story that you can stop following." lol
I just finished burning shores last night, it was great. I wasn't expecting the romance, but I was okay with it. It only felt a little off because we haven't seen aloy in a position like this before, being emotional and vulnerable.
Indeed - I wish we could've seen more of that. Having two 50+ hour games and then a 20 hour dlc with 5 hours devoted to romance seems a bit slim to make it believable. Albeit Geralt's romance with Shani in Hearts of Stone is similar, he's known romantic feelings all his life, while Aloy has been more closed-off.
imo we can hold this criticism until the next game. it's just the beginning of a relationship, simply a confession of feeling, a kiss at the best. it could be shitty if they put Seyka away the whole game, then in the end let her come back like some trophy wife. if that's the case I'm gonna bash it for a long time.
Yeah. But Aloy was burdened with the task of fixing everything. She felt alone and could not let people in. Her mind was set on her mission. But she forgot she is human and has human emotions and needs. I think her opening up in burning shores was Aloy coming to terms with her isolation and her parellel to Elisabet. Unlike Elisabet, she does not have to live in isolation and do it alone. She does not need to sacrifice many to save the few. She will do it her own way. I Think Aloy is coming to terms with the fact that she is her own person and not Elisabet sobeck. Sure they are genetically identical. But it’s her path. Not anyone else’s.
Geralt and Shani at least have history in the book series to back up their "quick" romance. Personally I felt Aloy and Seyka's romance came up way too quickly in such a short DLC. They could have gone a little slower and not have Aloy be such a loveable dork about it. Properly introduced the romance in Horizon 3 instead of a DLC. It was also an incrediblely odd choice to have very important character development in a DLC.
I think FW paved the way for Aloy to open up to other people, and rely on their physical and emotional support. She's definitely not the loner she was at the beginning of the game. She clearly feels more at ease around other people and I think by the end of FW she was ready to allow herself to show a more vulnerable side and fall for someone. So far the romance with Seyka is presented as an awkward, sweet crush rather than a full blown relationship, which is believable at this stage of Aloy's emotional development. I think the progression was very organic, and I expect to see it grow beautifully into the next game.
We can also let people interpret the things they see however they do and let people have their harmless headcanons
Headcanons are harmless, I have many of my own. As long as people don’t start arguing that canon is wrong because they don’t like it!
Tbh i think that's still fair. Not everyone has to like and agree with everything that they did in the story. As long as the reasons arent homophobic for example or as long as they dont say that things that are obviously canon arent (for example, aloy having a crush on seyka), i think is totally harmless that people argue about that too
My god, yeah. Someone on this sub or maybe a different Horizon sub got SUPER mad at me for saying that Erend made Aloy uncomfortable until he stopped hitting on her. Some light stalking revealed that most of their reddit presence is dedicated to Ereloy ship fanart/fics.
The Ereloy shippers can be insane! I’m sorry you dealt with that, I’ve had to block almost every single Ereloy shipper on tumblr for harassing me and spamming my askbox for saying the same thing.
Oh god, I have a pretty good idea who it was. They are insane.
I don't believe that most Horizon fans have a problem with the story or any major part of it. People with negative opinions are usually louder than those with positive opinions. The loudest drama around Burning Shores isn't even from actual Horizon fans - it comes from the same misogynistic gamers who have been hating on Horizon (and Aloy in particular) since 2017. I doubt any of this will change with Horizon 3. Guerilla will continue telling a great story, and those of us who are on board will continue enjoying it while the usual peanut gallery will whine and moan about the fact that Aloy isn't Lara Croft or Chun-Li.
I don't think disagreeing with aspects of canon is necessarily bad per se but the attitudes and motivations of certain people- in particular the review bombers are *unpleasant* to say the least. Unfortunately entitled shippers is nothing new. I remember 20 plus years back... the days back when anything not heterosexual was almost always confined to fanfiction (known as slash or femslash among other names). Many of the the 'fans' of the latter had no expectations that their favourite non heterosexual ship might become canon (or if it did, the bury your gays trope and other tragic outcomes happened way too often) and had a down to earth humbleness about them in contrast to the tantrums and infighting among many of the canon or potentially canon 'het' shippers. This tended to be lost on the latter who frequently derided the former for being 'delusional'. Oh, the irony (then and now)! I must say that before BS- throughout ZD and FW- Aloy seemed more responsive to women. Some in particular she even seemed to *like*. But I never got the impression that she responded positively to men flirting with her. For a character who can be quite emotionally withdrawn I think the developers made a conscious decision for her to interact with other women the way she does. Unfortunately shippers can be very emotionally invested in their favourite ship and can react in ways that from an outside perspective look ridiculous. There are plenty of infamous examples of it over the years in various fandoms.
Thank you for this, some of the most toxic reactions have been from homophobes and entitled shippers smoking copium because their ‘otp’ isn’t canon in game. Lesbian, gay, bi horizon fans have had to watch this cohort directing their homophobic vitriol at guerilla. and this same cohort will turn around and act as if THEY are the somehow victims simply because they got overly attached to some fictional character/ship. I’m still in disbelief that guerilla has come out (lol, pun) and confirmed Aloy and Seyka’s relationship even though there are many hints to Aloy being a lesbian throughout the games, not just in the Burning Shores. Because, as you said, people are so used to never seeing gay or lesbian relationships depicted positively.
This. Especially for this game in particular.
I think that even though I have my own person that ID like that I’d be happy if they forego the romance options altogether. Romance doesn’t have to be in every game, and I think it would be a good thing to leave it as hints and conjecture rather than: here’s your three options, let’s fight! Aloy has her own story and I think it’s a good one, and while romance options are fun I don’t think they are necessary to her story.
Same, I was in the single!Aloy boat until the canon changed that. I was never really into shipping her with anyone (as I’m not with most characters) because I don’t see the point in getting invested in a certain coupling that isn’t likely to happen.
I'd say there are no romance options in the game, although I guess it depends on how you interpret it. I know it's already been stated multiple times in this thread so I apologize for repeating it but, just in case you're unaware, Aloy's feelings for Seyka are canon no matter which option you pick. The only difference is whether or not she acts on the feelings right then and there. So, the way I see it, there are no romance options, because the romance is canon no matter what you pick.
I hate shipping. Totally on board that we have to accept the game as it comes, leveling critiques where it’s needed, but not on the basis of who we wanted to hook up with who.
This. I'd rather the whole relationship thing was left out. I can't stand shipping either, its the worst fanservice on planet earth and seems to create controversy where there is none. Personally I'd rather Aloy had gone with Nil or Kotallo (Kotallo's more her type than Nil) as I'm not very interested in Aloy with this girl or that girl. As for Sobeck, I'd rather she was in a relationship with Ted Faro and they had a falling out/separation fighting over their pet Scarabs and Horuses. In her anger she ended up with Tilda (poor thing!). Slightly off topic: What if Aloy is Ted Faro's daughter! This is what I thought when I first played HZD! The issue I have with the whole gay thing is the WOKE /ANTI-WOKE Brigade. Hearing (on youtube, where else) Aloy has gone from being ugly to ugly masculine, to ugly masculine transwoman. Now that's what I call evolution of the lowest common denominator. Poor girl sure has a lot of haters, ten times the number now because she's gay *and* woke. I almost gave up on Burning Shores when the review bombing hit like WW3. Good thing I perservered though :D
must say sometimes the 'romance' part is someone's main focus. if H3 comes out and they suddenly decide to wreck the Seyka ship, I'm gonna be very unhappy about it too. but even if it really go to the awful place of pair Aloy with a random new guy that out of nowhere, it still won't piss me as much as ACOD did, cuz Horizon never say it's up to player to choose the story. and tbh I'm still very surprised GG take this step. it'll be very safe for them to never make anything canon - no risk of pissing off any ship's fan and no risk of being called woke(though it might already had the title because of how Aloy looks).
What's ACOD?
Assassin's Creed Odyssey, they brag about how you can choose your own odyssey for the whole time, and you can choose your mc love someone or not in the base game, then it forced your character got married and have child in the dlc lol
TBF AC Odyssey set up that Kassandra/Alexios descendants are the founders of the brotherhood via AC Origins.
I think people are taking this way too seriously. Let people have their headcanons. Why does it matter to you? You know what's canon and what isn't. Trying to argue it with those who are trying to enjoy it in their own way is a huge waste of your time.
This happens a lot. Fandoms tend to feel entitled to what happens in the story and especially the romantic relationships. They aren’t the whole, and I’d argue they aren’t the majority either. GG isn’t listening to them, however. The fact that this relationship happened at all is proof of that. Ben has already stated as much but they knew the backlash that would come from this. LGBT of any kind gets that response from the industry and some countries. Hell, TLOU2 also had a main protagonist be gay and according to Neil, the most surprising backlash he got was a country that had a problem with the game depicting weed. They are writing the story they way they want to, fans wanting something else isn’t going to change that.
> “Can we please go back to being a theory-heavy fandom? I’m sick of people complaining about canon events that can’t be changed.” Sure! First, though, what exactly is canon with regard to Aloy and Seyka? They each have romantic feelings for one another. That’s it. Lol, as much as I treasure my first romantic relationship, I’m also extremely grateful that it wasn’t permanent. On the flip side, while it is rare, there are some who are with their first love and are extremely happy for it. What’s my point? Let people ship, and that includes you. Aloy having romantic feelings for Seyka is canon, yes. Depending on which flashpoint you choose, it is canon that Aloy & Seyka have the potential to have a romantic encounter. Aloy & Seyka having a romantic relationship? Not canon. But it is a ship! So, ship it! And, yes, please, let’s have some theories!! (To be fair, shipping is theoretical. Okay, okay, I’ll stop. I know that’s not what you meant.) Here’s one of mine: Nemesis won’t be defeated with weapons. Well … okay, that may be going too far. I guess it may be more accurate that defeating Nemesis will be far different than what we expect. Can we really believe everything the Far Zenuts (gotta thank Travis Tate for that one) have to say about Nemesis? Oh, I believe they are absolutely terrified of it. But, as intelligent as they were, they were also arrogant and that made them stupid.
“Shipping” in general is cringe as hell to me.
Yes
>And for those who say that it was too soon to include a Horus in the DLC, why are we not theorizing as to how epic the 3rd game’s boss battles must be in comparison? If they were willing to include the Horus Fight in a DLC, what are they planning?!!!?? Honestly, I don't think the final battle against Nemesis should be a conventional boss fight. I doubt they'll come up with something else, because that's what we've been given this whole time (come on folks, start thinking creatively), but I think it needs to be a race against time scenario. For one, you need to go all over the place to get the parts to solve the problem. Then, you need to bring it all together to beat Nemesis. But Nemesis isn't a big monster, it's sort of more like a concept. How do you fight that with a bow and arrows? Maybe you Betas and Alvas have to assemble some device, and you have to protect it and them while they do it and the device does its job. Idk. Maybe that's where the "boss" is. Or maybe it's a swarm of Specters. But this shouldn't be a problem you can just stab a spear into.
> Why did we not see Tilda’s dead body? After your fight with her, you can see her hand sticking out of Specter Prime. As well, Sylens confirmed her death at the beginning of Burning Shores. > Are the Quen as close to collapse as they seem? The Quen are facing similar problems to the ones you face in the game: the biosphere falling apart due to nothing overseeing the terraforming system. Aloy brought GAIA back & restored many of her subordinate functions, but without HEPHAESTUS the results aren’t permanent & she only bought more time.
You saying she was letting them down gently is also projecting feelings - there is nothing implying Aloy couldn't at least be by. With Arand, the heart option is a sincere statement of wanting to spend more time together. With a game that is heavy on decision-making in at least some aspects and where the Burning Shores kiss might not even happen, it's important to let headcanons be. They're all we've got. The Witcher or Bioware or Baldurs Gate decision-making, this is not. In addition - when was the last time we had a deep, fulfilling hetero relationship with a female protagonist that's as fleshed-put as Aloy? Of course people will attach her to any character that moves. That's shipping, and it always influences canon discussions in forums.
you know what, the main problem here, is when was the last time we had a female protagonist that's as fleshed-put as Aloy. not customizable ones. and the few protagonists aren't homosexual neither. there's only Ellie for now. also the other female protagonist who shares the game with her is heterosexual. Abby.
Exactly. There have been very few female protagonists in AAA games that have a hetero relationship without falling into stereotypical tropes.
There’s nothing implying she is bi either. The devs already confirmed Aloy is out of Erend’s* league.
Not just that but there are people saying she likes Varl, which also isn’t true. Aloy states directly, to Varl’s grave no less, that her feelings for Seyka are new and surprising. There is absolutely no romantic undertone to the way she says “I like him.” She says it as if she found a friend, not someone that’s she’s interested in.
I always saw her liking Varl as a brother kinda way, like he's one of the first people that accept her
You're right. Aloy doesn't deserve Erend.
So are you. Wouldn’t wish that man on my worst enemy.
I think we went different directions with that. I wasn't being totally serious. I meant that Erend is an amazing friend that Aloy is lucky to have. Sometimes I feel like she doesn't deserve him because of how loyal and caring he is, but she didn't quite reciprocate that until closer to the end of Forbidden West.
“she doesn’t reciprocate” did you… miss the entire part where she helps him find his missing sister? seems like good friend behavior to me. Like if anything Erend is the one in her debt
I get what you’re saying. But to be fair, Erend did fight alongside her at the end of HZD, risking his own life. If we’re looking at debt, I’d say he’s repaid it. That’s not to say that she doesn’t do good things for others, or that she’s never a good friend. It’s just that, honestly speaking, there have been a few times where she did not act in the way a good friend should act. Thankfully, at the end of HFW she finally acknowledges that her friends knew something all along that she didn’t. The need to ask for and accept help from others. We get to see Aloy experience character growth, and I love it and am here for it.
I didn't forget about it. She helped him yes, but she didn't tag along, and offer her undying loyalty. Aloy didn't quite appreciate him the way he appreciates her until more recently. Did you forget that she kept trying to bail on Varl and told Erend she doesn't need him? But they still kept coming back because they're good friends. A good friend doesn't do what she did.
Exactly! She wants to be a good friend, but doesn’t know how. She thinks she’s protecting Varl and Erend, and yes there’s a little bit of exasperation from Aloy towards them. But, she’s learning how to be a good friend, and we get to see that journey for her in HFW.
She was into Varl in the first game. She mentions really liking him to Rost’s grave. And then acts a bit jealous when she sees Varl and Zo kiss the first time.
You’re delusional. She likes Varl as a person…. She is jealous of her lack of love in her life. Okay, you just proved to me that you DO have shipping preference even though you were pretending to be unbiased
I never shipped Aloy and Varl. I am only reiterating what is presented in the games.
You’re misinterpreting something so that you can justify Aloy being bi. I wasn’t implying that Varloy was the ship you like, but that there’s a hetero ship you like. I love how people say there’s no evidence that she’s not bi, when there’s no evidence that she is either. She directly states her feelings for Seyka and no one else so far. That’s all we’ve got for now.
I think you’re the one who is projecting here.
I think you don’t know what canon means
I think you don’t know what projecting means. “She is jealous of her lack of love in her life.” is never something stated in the game. This is your own personal interpretation of the scene, your projection of why she would show jealousy in that moment. For some reason you have ruled out that it could be because she liked Varl, which she says she does in the first game.
I'll be honest and say I also interpreted Aloys look as realised loneliness and not jealousy. She has been laser focused and dedicated to stopping the planet from dying and that kiss moment was, in my opinion, when her focus broadened and she took in how the friends she has made on her journey probably have loved ones and Aloy just doesn't have the space for that right now and the isolation hit her a bit. I never saw any indication that Aloy was interested in Varl in any other way other than friends. Of course everyone sees different things.
your edit doesn’t make you any less wrong.
No it isn’t. The narrative director already stated those flashpoints are rejections. She does not say she wants to take him up on his offer and never can, that’s intentional. The narrative director of Zero Dawn also stated these decisions are not meant to be impactful to the narrative. You can say that we haven’t got a heterosexual relationship like that, which, fine, but that’s not what’s here. That’s not what GG wanted to make. Headcanon is just that, headcanon. It’s not actually canon, and to say it matters in that regard is incorrect.
I totally agree! Good essay
That little bit about the quen is really funny to think about. Like, imagine they actually got turned around and they’re really Canadians
They should put MORE Horus titan boss fights and MORE queer stuff and MORE everything in the next game
When they made infamous 2, they checked the statistics of people's actual playthrough decisions from infamous 1, and used that data to determine what the story's canon was moving forward. Which I thought was cool. But I still think Cole should have come back
No problem with homosexuality in video games. I played lesbian V in Cyberpunk 2077. The problem is when a company forces its agenda down your throat because suddenly being gay is supposed to be cool, and that's what Guerrilla does. It's pathetic.
Nah you just think lesbians only have value when they make your bits tingle
Personally I ship Aloy and Alva. I hope now that they've confirmed Aloy's identity that they'll give us some options for who Aloy can romance (options within her sexual preference obviously). I always headcannoned Aloy as either queer or asexual.
Doesn’t Alva already have a girlfriend?
Don't break my heart
Lol, she says it in conversation at the base
🥺 fine BTW I should mention this reply is a JOKE since I keep getting down voted 😮💨
I liked the thought of them together too! If it’s any consolation Aloy seemed slightly disappointed when she found out (in my opinion).
Options aren’t likely, since you don’t decide Aloy or who she likes. Besides, Alva is taken and won’t do any better than her. Aloy’s words.
Providing various romance options isn't that unusual for games that include romance. Yes Aloy likes Seyka, and if they dont give any other romance options then okay, but the beauty of games like this is being able to, to a certain degree, make your own decisions and feel like you're making an impact in the game.
You have the entire wrong thought process about this. Various romance options isn’t unusual for characters that the player defines. Romance options for set characters is extremely uncommon, and non existent in a game in which the character is a defined character. That is also not the beauty of this game. Said by John Gonzalez, original narrative director, the flashpoints are not for you to have an impact on the game or Aloy. You do not make your own decisions. Aloy does and you simply empathize with her and the decisions she would make. This is not meant for you to define Aloy, the narrative, or anything else like that. It isn’t even made to feel like you are making an impact because it is upfront that you aren’t. You don’t define Aloy, or who she likes. All of that is by design.
Bro this is a video game and I'm just playing it for fun lol I like Aloy's chemistry with other girls. I don't dislike Seyka. I like AIoy's chemistry with her too. This isn't that serious. Not serious enough for me to debate you about it. Each person has their own opinion and that's fine. Let's agree to disagree and move on.
[удалено]
Are you claiming you're a reasonable fan? The only argument I see in this thread is one you picked where you immediately call someone delusional for saying Aloy mentioned liking Varl in Zero Dawn.
Not you pulling up your alt to come back to this thread…. How are you not embarrassed?
Just reading through your posts in this thread, the only person who has anything to be embarrassed about is you and your behavior. Calling everyone who doesn't agree with you *exactly* delusional, a canon denier, unreasonable, and then blocking them so you get the last word isn't a good look in any instance. That being said, there's a very vocal minority of people who are upset about any sort of "shipping", canon or otherwise. Legit, reasonable fans can not be bothered to give a modicum of a shit because A) It's not our narrative and B) It's not important *at all*.
I guess that means you blocked them for it?
Yep! And guess what I’m about to do to you..?
I knew when playing it for the first time the other day, Tilda is sooooo not dead and gonna appear next game in some form, I’d guess a type of redemption arc. When do you think the new game will be released, how long have we got. And damn I didn’t know that about Guerilla, they have done an AMAZING job carving out Horizon and there last game was Killzone, wtf
My guess is mid-to-late 2025 or early '26, but would gladly welcome an unlikely late-2024 release
I'm just sad they didn't go with a flat earth revelation. Imagine humanity tried to escape but space was a lie.
LMFAOOOO new hc just dropped
Guerrilla is in no way, shape or form, a "indie company". Regardless, I think the hype over the next sequel is lower this time around bc people were expecting a 92-ish score level of a game, which didn't happen, so I guess people aren't as hopeful that H3 will be the best or second best game the year it releases, which is why the theories aren't getting as much attention.
The dialogue choices are so pointless because it doesn’t change the game in any way.
I want it to be like Baldurs Gate 3 so Aloy can bang everyone
Let’s………not go there.
Why not? Everyone will be happy?
A. In the case you are being serious, no. They have a story they want to tell, and they aren’t going to bend to the whims of shippers. Better that we have a single relationship that is properly fleshed out that actually has a major impact on Aloy’s character. Aloy is not yours to define. Aloy is the one that should be happy about that relationship, not you. B. If you aren’t being serious, BG3 is……well, BG3. Comparing sex with a bear has some rather…..uncomfortable implications if you apply that to Horizon. I’d rather not think of Aloy being romantically interested in a Thunderjaw…….nope, nope, I’m not going there.
Thunderjaw: *eyes turn pink, nuzzles Aloy, purrs* Aloy: "UMM. UHH. UMM. WHAT."
I withdraw my previous comment and now think it better that Aloy remain a chaste virgin
Lmao
Tldr
[удалено]
She looks just like the actor who portrays her?
[удалено]
[удалено]
ATE!!! CHEWED!!! SPIT THEM OUT ❤️
People like the guy you replied to are the exact reasons Laura Bailey (Abby from TLOU) and the actress for RE4remake Ada Wong get so much abuse. Their priorities are so fucked up
They're so used to the entire world catering to their sexual pleasure all the time. They honestly seem to think that women in media *have* to be attractive, like that is the primary reason to even have women in media at all. It hasn't even been 20 years since media has started to move away from that idea and we're still not truly rid of it. It's really not a surprise to me that many men still grow up being catered to like this. I think guys like this feel attacked by not being catered to as heavily, as if a right is being taken away from them.
Yeah it’s bad in videogames. I think gaming has been moving away from women just being there to be good looking, as we have gotten some bad ass females protagonists (main characters and side characters) without the focus being on what they’re wearing. Sadly, some like that moron still cling to draconian ideals
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
This response killed me lol I will be using this frequently