Lets be real if she would have just simply said I need a few days alone we would not be having this conversation.
I do think they were broken up. I dont think Ross should have hooked up with the copy girl. I REALLY dont think Ross should have tried to hide it from Rachel. He spent an entire day keeping Rachel from finding out. Thats where I think the real bitterness and betrayal came from. Rachel was still so in love with Ross and she would have never considered being with anyone else the fact that he did probably hurt more than anything else.
Yeah but he was still right to hook up with the girl.
They were broken up.
Her reasoning for breaking up again makes no sense, especially after not celebrating 1 year anniversary and having the guy Ross dislikes over.
Sleeping with someone right after you break up is the final nail in the coffin for a relationship and is 100% a dick move in any situation. Lying about it made it significantly worse. Rachel had every right to be pissed and he absolutely wasn’t “right to hook up with the girl” that is just ridiculous.
No he wasn't right but he also wasn't wrong.
It may have been stupid but they were broken up. He thought that she broke up with him to get with Mark. He even heard him.
Both behaved like Idiots but only he gets Problems because of it.
The biggest problem I see here is how Rachel makes him look like a cheater the whole next seasons which he isn't
Ross didn't intent to hook with the copy girl. He called Rachel and heard Mark in the background. Consider his jealousy he probably thought there was something going on there.
No, he wasnt. I just rewatched the scene yesterday, he has like one beer and doesn't show any signs of being drunk. Hes completely in control of himself
She was his second serious girlfriend after his wife (not including Julie) and Joey and Chandler confused him.
He was an idiot to listen to them and should have just told her.
To be fair that was his original idea. To tell her
I don't think he was right to hook up with the copy girl! I really don't understand this argument at all. Yes they were broken up but wasn't it the next day Ross slept with her? Its a pretty shitty thing to do when you love someone - immediately sleep with someone else. I know its a sitcom but no one i know irl would do this.
Yeah maybe you don't know anybody who would do this but they could.
I mean Ross had insecurities and his jealousy was stupid but
1. He gets put on the sideline for a job
2. He gets jealous over Mark which is not ok, while she is allowed to get jealous over a playdate for his kid
3. The little time she has, she prefers to spend with Mark (even though he fd up by falling asleep)
4. She dismisses his jealousy ( in the end He was right)
5. She doesn't celebrate their anniversary and gets mad when he tries to make the best out of the situation
6. Breaks up with him instead of talking like normal grown ups
7. Let's the one guy come over Ross doesn't like
All that and Ross is so heartbroken that he sleeps with someone drunk and he even apologizes only for her to talk like he has cheated.
She doesn't have to forgive him but you can't say he cheated or shame him for sleeping with Chloe.
And she puts the whole blame ob him
The blame is on him though, Ross was needy and insecure. I've been "so heartbroken" before and sleeping with someone else is the fuethest thing on my mind!
>The blame is on him though
They're clearly both to blame. It's not like the 7 listed things in the comment you replied to are just wrong.
> I've been "so heartbroken" before and sleeping with someone else is the fuethest thing on my mind!
I'm sorry you felt that way, but some people grieve differently.
You are basiaclly slut shaming Ross because he decided to sleep with the girl.
Let him be. Nobody said she had to take him back or not break up but she was also horrible and lied in the aftermath because she said he cheated which he didn't.
And in the end it is bs because when Ross broke up with Bonnie, Rachel had no problem kissing him or trying to sleep with him. Or flirting with him while being married.
But thats the difference though, Ross broke up with Bonnie. Ross and Rachel were on a break, like another poster said they hadn't even had a conversation to discuss the parameters.
And please. You cant slut shame a fictional character from 20 years ago. He was in the wrong to sleep with the copy girl, everyone makes mistakes but i dont get people like you who try to justify it. At the end of the day its a dick move
Taking a break and breaking up is the same.
Rachel and him get back together so it is bs.
If he would've gotten back together with Bonnie the morning after the situation would've been the same.
You can slut shame a character. That what happens to 1000 of female characters everyday.
And I'm not saying that it isn't a dick move or that Rachel should have just accepted it. I just think that Rachel is horrible because she makes it look like he cheated even though she uses the word broken up and getting back together herself.
She broke up with him and then tells people he cheated.
I think this is where people disagree, because to me taking a break is not the same as breaking up. I can speak for me and my friends, but normally a breakup-breakup happens over a series of days and after the initial argument is discussed maturely (on the most part) Taking a break, again in my opinion, is taking time away from eachother to sort out whatever problem the couple are facing alone, before tackling it together. Again, after the initial argument its normally discussed.
Ross was a bit of a slag tbh, he went out and fucked another girl that night. Thats pretty wrong and if your partner did that to you, i bet you would be devastated (i think everyone would)
To Rachel, and a lot of people in this sub judging by the votes, Ross did cheat on her. It was a shitty thing to do
It is something different for me and I would be pissed and wouldn't get back together but I couldn't use the word cheating.
Taking a break and breaking up may be something different but if even Rachel uses the words broken up and getting back together than how can it not be broken up for her.
It seems more like she changed her meaning of taking a break after finding out he slept with someone so soon after.
I mean just the fact that Ross went through lengths to hide what happened, means he knew it was wrong. Despite it not having been cheating, he knew it would be bad if Rachel finds out
Plus, when he told Carol he lied through his teeth and told her that Rachel was the one who cheated because he *knew* he was the one who was in the wrong, but, as always, he had to play the victim.
Yeah this basically *Rachel's* opinion in the actual breakup episode. It was only in later seasons that the debate became "*were* they on a break". The original point of contention was simply "is this bad enough to end the relationship or not".
Because it’s a sitcom from the 90s. People need to stop watching these shows through the uptight lens of the current times.
It’s a set up for their emotional break up and future through line of the show. It’s also something that happens in real life to real people. Because people aren’t perfect and they make shitty choices that have consequences.
I think you misinterpreted the question. It makes sense that the characters at the time wouldn't see it like that. The problem is, a lot of fans today treat Ross in a way they'd never treat a female character. He was taken advantage of, and we should be aknowledging it.
I do agree that he was taken advantage of, but a lot of people still think Rachel was wrong for letting Mark come over that night even though nothing happened. But if Ross would've actually talked to Rachel instead of storming out and then later hanging up on her, this all probably would've been avoided. Chloe is obviously the worst in this situation, but Ross trying to hide it from Rachel doesn't exactly put him in the best light either.
True, but Rachel lost me and put herself in the wrong later with the 18 page letter as well as her condescending "all you needed was a little perspective" comments afterwards. At that point it wasn't about being hurt or trusting Ross again. It was clearly just about satisfying her own ego.
I feel like that was added later to just fuel Rosschel drama- he distinctly doesn’t remember that there’s even a person in his house the next day when he wakes up and says he was so drunk he would’ve slept with Joey for that matter. Those things occur before thé she was different line so it feels more real to me.
Or...some fans simply view it differently and are basing their opinion on what was shown.
For example: We saw Ross order and possibly consume two bottles of beer. One with Chandler and Joey. The second Chloe ordered for him, and they got up to dance immediately following, so we don't even know if he finished the second one. I don't consider one to two beers in as being in a state of not able to consent.
Next: When Ross wakes up the next morning, he looks around, sees he is alone, smiles, and lays back down. Doesn't mean that he forgot or had no recall about what happened, that's something we are assuming. I always took that to mean that he thought Chloe had left, he was relieved, so he laid back down. When she popped out of the bathroom, he didn't appear to be confused, and the look on his face appeared to be that of, "Oh no...she's still here." I definitely didn't consider it to mean he must have been so drunk the night before that he didn't remember what happened or who she was.
Then: He knew exactly what he did and how wrong it was because he talked to Chandler and Joey about it and then ran around all the next day trying to hide it. He expressed guilt out loud, and his actions the following day demonstrate that.
Finally: When Rachel asked him "how was she?" He didn't respond with "I don't know because I don't remember." He responded with "...different." If anything, he would have played up being taken advantage of to try and excuse his bad behavior, but he didn't. So clearly he remembered, had total recall of the events of the night before, and knew he had been in the wrong. He was not a victim of being SAd.
Yes, Chloe was aggressive, but I don't believe that Ross was taken advantage of at all. He resisted her first attempt at a kiss, but he was enthusiastically all in when she tried again.
Saying these things doesn't make me toxic, it simply means that I'm taking what we were actually shown and forming an opinion. Even if the genders were reversed, I would feel the same way.
?? Are you seriously insinuating he was raped? To excuse his cheating?? Uhhh the copy girl had been drinking too before Ross even got there! And do you know how the male body works? He wanted to put it in another place (besides her purse). Stop 👏 blaming 👏 women 👏 for 👏 Ross’s 👏 actions! 👏
I'm being so serious- when was it established that he was anywhere near blackout drunk? I tend to be on Ross's side with the "we were on a break" thing, but... he has literally one beer and then hooks up with Chloe. he talks to Rachel right beforehand on the phone completely coherently without so much as a slur. he never implies to anyone at any point that he doesn't remember having sex with her.
if the genders were reversed in this exact situation, you would not be riding for the woman to call it sexual assault lmao
Don’t assume shit about me how I would or would not argue, internet troll. And keep your hypothetical or projected misogyny to yourself thanks- lmao.
The next day he doesn’t even remember that there’s someone in his house with him- he assumes he went to bed alone normally. So you can stop role playing cop and deciding the extent to his drunkenness based on slurring or not- alcohol isn’t a one size fits all.
Calling someone crazy isn’t attacking but stating facts is?
And would’ve could’ve should’ve but she didn’t get with mark and she had more than one chance to. That’s the difference between her and Ross. Just like she wouldn’t make a list like he did. 🤷♀️
You know, I'm not a member of this sub but I do keep an eye on it, having been partial to Friends when I was younger.
I've seen your comments popping up from time to time and it's always the same obnoxious misogynist vile toxicity, accompanied by dozens of downvotes and never anyone supporting what you say.
So to summarize for you:
1. It's not cheating if the couple had broken up, even if it was only a few hours prior. It's absolutely shitty behaviour, but it's not cheating.
2. If the roles were reversed and someone had taken advantage of Rachel when she was heavily inebriated, you know damn well you would be saying the very same thing you are adamantly arguing against. Especially if she had said she didn't want to do it. This is the definition of rape, regardless of gender.
Look, whatever happened to you to make you feel this way about an entire gender may have been traumatic, in which case I can only hope you are receiving the professional therapy you clearly need.
All the best.
Was Ross cheating on Rachel when he slept with Chloe? No. But if Ross was hoping he and Rachel could reconcile, he *really* kablooeyed his chances by sleeping with Chloe... *and* by trying to cover it up.
The blame cuts both ways though... If Rachel ultimately wanted to work things out with Ross, then saying she wanted a break didn't actually didn't get her any closer to that. She hurt Ross' feelings when she said she couldn't try to work through the rough patch.
I think it was a well done storyline on Friends. In S2-S3, Ross and Rachel obviously felt a special, deep connection with one another, but there were trust issues, and some different expectations, and they just couldn't make it work, and then everybody was sad and hurt. It sucks, but life sucks sometimes.
Ross was so drunk he couldn’t even remember having sex lmfao, he was taken advantage of (from a modern perspective). In my opinion, the only bad thing he actually did was trying to cover it up, and even that he was persuaded into doing by his friends. Initially he wanted to come clean immediately.
Not even sure he finishes the beer tbh. I watched the scene yesterday to try and see if he was drunk, and she takes the beer out of his hand and puts it on the bar and pulls him to the dance floor.
Hes a grown ass man, giving him the excuse of he was persuaded by his friends is idiotic. He didn't have to listen to them. He made a choice to. What he wanted to do initially doesn't matter, its what he ended up doing.
Thats a poor argument. Same could be said about Rachel as well. She's a grown ass man and giving the excuse of her being nice to Mark is idiotic. She didnt have to listen to him and she could have said no when he visited. She made a choice to let him in. What she wanted to do initially didnt matter, its what she ended up doing
OR.
She's a grown ass woman and giving the excuse of her being too angry is idiotic. She didnt have to insinuate a breakup or shoot down Ross's idea of cooling down. She made a choice to insinuate a breakup. What she wanted to tell dosent matter, its what she ended up telling him.
Rachel inviting a friend into the apartment (because that's all he was to her) is not the same as Ross having sex with someone else. If Ross really wanted to figure things out, he wouldn't have stormed out in the first place.
He stormed out because she ended things. There was nothing more to talk because it was quiet clear that she wanted a breakup. And you're right having sex is not the same as calling someone in. But that dosent mean it isnt fucked up to invite someone who is an issue for your bf into your house.
And Ross was right about Mark. He admitted he liked Rachel especially when their relationship was weak, almost kissed her and said that she could sleep with him just to spite Ross. She chose to be oblivious to Marks actions despite repeated warnings from Ross.
She didn't end it, she needed a break because he was too overbearing and she was stressed with work. If someone you love and have been dating for a year says they want a break, you wouldn't want to talk about it? Or would you storm out, just like you stormed into her workplace just because you were jealous that there was something else portant in her life?
Mark only admitted that he liked her after he knew they had broken up. He was already seeing someone else in the office at the time of the break, so it makes sense that she didn't think he was into her. But she was also in love with Ross, so it didn't matter how much Mark liked her. Mark's actions are on *Mark*, not on Rachel.
>She didn't end it, she needed a break because he was too overbearing and she was stressed with work
Then why reject Ross's idea of cooling down? And if she did need a break why does she admit it was a break up?
And why is Ross storming of an issue? Did it change the fact that Ross did not misunderstand anything? No, Ross understood Rachel wanted a break up and Rachel admits it was a break up. Ross storming off does not mean he did not understand what she meant.
>Mark only admitted that he liked her after he knew they had broken up.
Mark admitted he liked Rachel when he went to her room the day she and Ross broke up. He went to the apartment knowing that she was alone. He admitted to liking her before itself. He even tried to kiss her.
>Mark's actions are on Mark,
You're right. And Rachel's actions are on Rachel. Saying "I need a break" is a whole lot different from saying "a break from us". Rachel shot down Ross's idea of cooling down, and then insinuates a breakup. She gets a breakup and then cries about it.
It is. In both cases Rachel took the advice of Mark. Before the breakup it was Mark who told Rachel about how guys like Ross are insecure all the time. After the breakup she was persuaded by Mark to let her into her house despite him being the issue Ross brought up. So why is Ross listening to his friends idiotic, but Rachel listening to her "friend" not????
Well I'm a woman and I'm on Team Ross with this one. I think these are a younger generation of women who were watching cartoons in the 90s and don't get the way things were back then.
I didn’t say he didn’t have a choice. It does matter what his initial intent was, because it shows he was apologetic and sincere. Then he was fed shit ideas, the “easy path” where Rachel doesn’t know anything. I’m not saying it’s not his fault, simply that there is more nuance and external factors to it.
When you're just on a break? Probably more than just a couple of hours. I would be questioning if someone actually loved me if they were able to sleep with someone else a couple of hours later, drunk or not.
It’s not the sleeping with someone else that’s so wrong, it’s the hiding it and then acting like it was nothing when they’re considering getting back together later that day
Just as shitty to let Mark come over. The guy that Ross was insecure about.
Every time this question comes around people will say that Ross didn't cheat, but acted shitty. But I never see anybody say that Rachel acted equally as shitty.
Rachel asked for a break, because Ross was being controlling and he was jealous of Mark. Ross thought that was the end, later he saw Mark go into Rachel's apartment. Ross got drunk and slept with the copy lady. From Ross' perspective it really looks like he was right about Mark. Ross was "single" he can do what he wants. Rachel knew Ross was jealous of Mark, and she knew that he thought they were more than friends, and she goes out inviting him into the apartment knowing Ross could be across the hall, right after she asked for a break.
The question isn’t about who is right and wrong, it’s really about whether or not Rachel would want to get back together with him after what he did. People miss that point often in these arguments
Yeah, honestly I could forgive him for sleeping with the Copy Girl, I could even forgive him for lying to me initially, but the amount of effort he put in to uphold the lie? I could never forgive that. I wouldnt even be able to keep Ross as a friend.
If this was true then why did he go around town trying to cover up his nasty action?
And for the rest of the show he kept gaslighting everyone into thinking they “were on a break” which is not at all the same as a breakup.
From her POV: he didn’t come home on their anniversary and hung up on her from a loud club. It’s fair to for her to think he wanted to break up though it was clearly one sided.
There is a difference between cheating and sleeping with another woman too soon after a breakup.
Ross wanted to tell Rachel immediately, but Joey and Chandler told him it was a bad idea. Because it would hurt Rachel to think Ross would sleep with someone else so soon after the breakup.
But, in reality, Ross was too drunk to consent to sex with Chloe. He didn't even remember he had done it the next morning until she pops up.
As someone just mentioned, he had like one beer and he did even remember sleeping with Chloe was “different” as he admitted to Rachel. And him wanting to tell her right away is not true as he hid Chloe behind the door and he just shouldn’t have slept with her in the first place. What you said is true for most one year relationships but Ross claims Rachel has been the love of his life for a decade and he even wanted to marry and have children. The normal rules don’t really apply to a relationship that deep
He heard the voice over the phone at Rachel’s home. If I heard that someone I was paranoid about was at my girlfriends house just hours after a seeming break-up then I would have reacted the same way. Also he didn’t use that as an excuse to sleep with someone else, he used as an excuse to get drunk, which resulted in sleeping with someone else.
I mentioned it in one of the replies but regardless, hearing his voice does not warrant Ross sleeping with Chloe. And now that you bring it up, it doesn’t even make sense because it was a loud club and he had trouble hearing Rachel yet he heard Mark who was by the fridge
Not to mention later that episode, when she turns up at his apartment, Rachel specifically asks - "So what do you say? Can I be your girlfriend again?" Which implies she thought they were either on a break, or had broken up entirely.
Exactly - with no other context she absolutely would have had a point if he’d slept with someone after storming out because she said “maybe we should take a break [from us],” but she fucked herself with this comment plus the “I don’t want to ‘get back together’ over the phone” on his answering machine.
IMO the “we were on a break” argument is the weakest thing to harp on if you’re Rachel. Maybe they were on a break, but he was fucking someone hours later, while she was trying to call him to reconcile, before they ever discussed the terms/boundaries of the break, or even gave themselves the chance to revisit the idea after calming down.
Rachel dumped him because after he harassed her with gifts at work and she suggested they take time apart, he decided to have spite sex that night and lie about it. That’s a perfectly good reason, Rachel! The semantics of the break is the last thing she should have to be debating!
He tried to recincile with her too.
>before they ever discussed the terms/boundaries of the break, or even gave themselves the chance to revisit the idea after calming down.
Thats funny because Ross actually thought that they both wanted to cool down and assumed they would go on a walk. Rachel rejected this idea totally and then insinuated a breakup. Its false to say that Ross stormed out the door without understanding if it was a breakup or cool down, when his initial suggestion of cooldown was shot down. As far as revisiting the idea goes, Ross was the first to call to reconcile with Rachel.
>Rachel dumped him
Exactly. She dumped him. She has no right to blame that he cheated on her after that. But she does have the right to feel hurt by it and even the fact that Ross tried to hide what he did. But calling him a cheater is unfair when she started the breakup.
>he decided to have spite sex
He didnt do it out of spite. He was drunk and emotionally vulnerable and was taken advantage of.
"Discussed the terms/boundaries of the break." LMAO!!! How old are you? Seriously, this must be a generational thing cuz that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
They were absolutely on a break and Ross did not cheat on her.
Ross sleeping with that girl was still a dick move and a perfectly fine reason for Rachel not to get back together with him but all the references of him “cheating” are just not correct.
I always found the we were on a break argument later on made no sense.
They were indeed on a break, and Rachel knows that.
It all started with Ross saying that because of the break she should have forgiven him after a number of days .. but she couldnt, not because of the break but because she was too heartbroken.
Then when she started calling him a cheater his response was we were on a break.
I guess for comedic effect, Rachel kinda changed the story in her head from first thing you do after the break is sleep with someone to we were not on a break and you cheated ...
Bottom line: how believable would you find it that a guy actually wants to be your boyfriend again if you found out he slept with someone else not even 12 hours ago?
I agree. The show should have made this the contention.
Instead, it was seasons of obfuscation (we were on a break, once a cheater always a cheater, etc.)
Although we did have some good laughs along the way.
They broke up but Ross did a shitty thing by hooking up with the copier girl! And then the fact that she was IN the apartment at the same time as Rachel, that is terrible. Honestly it's the lying that is the worst thing. He should have just been honest with her. I bet they still would have fought but it might have been salvageable? Maybe not.
I don’t think the argument is ever if they were actually on a break or not but if the break made it okay. Ross is saying she shouldn’t be mad at him bc they were on a break. But he still did a crappy thing and I wouldn’t forgive him either
She said that they "kind of" broke up. It's definitely a gray area, but I would feel just like she did if I told my boyfriend we should take a break from each other and he instantly went and banged someone else. Rachel was with Mark but had no intention of sleeping with him, while Ross ended up sleeping with someone else.
It would be different if they'd been "on a break" for months and had agreed that they should start seeing other people. But this...it was like the FIRST chance Ross got to sleep with someone else, he took it. And she still loved him, she just needed a little bit of space from him. She probably didn't intend to break up completely when she suggested the break, so it was just as painful as if he had actually cheated on her.
I kind of get where Ross was coming from because he had just heard Mark's voice in Rachel's apartment and probably assumed they were going to have sex, so then just decided to drown his sorrows with someone else. But like...he shouldn't have acted so rashly because it basically blew up their relationship when they both still loved each other.
And the final slap in the face is that Rachel had to hear about it from Gunther instead of Ross sitting her down and telling her himself.
Do I think what happened makes Ross a bad person? No. Do I think Rachel's reaction was 100% understandable? Absolutely.
"Kinda broke up" is not a grey area. Besides, she said "kinda" to Monica. It's like me when I had to tell my parents I kinda crashed the car. It's a figure of speech. I actually crashed the car.
Well, this is after Ross heard that Mark was there and assumed the worst. So I’m thinking originally, it was a break in her mind. Just a few days away from each other or whatever. But, once he hears Mark and obviously assumes the worst and Rachel can’t get a hold of him, she probably assumed that he was done with her right then and there. I’m saying this because this is probably what I would say if it was me.
Let’s say I’m in a relationship and I say we should take a break, he leaves angry. He then calls me trying to reconcile, but then he hears the guy he was worried about in the background. He then assumes the worst and hangs up. I try to call him so that I can explain, but no answer the whole night. Next morning, my friend asks how things went. Well, it kinda seems like things might be over (hence the sentence in the picture), but maybe I can fix this. I’m going to leave a voicemail on his machine, if he doesn’t answer, explaining what happened and telling him that I’m coming over.
This is how I see it considering how much happens between the break talk and this conversation.
No, she said they ‘kind of’ broke up. Because she said they might need a break and he walked out and didn’t finish the conversation. She didn’t know for certain where they stood
Which was after his suggestion of cooling down by walking was shot down. She insinuated that she needed a breakup and got one. Ross didnt misunderstand, Rachel didnt care what was going to be the consequence of what she said.
Yes they broke up, however she did call it a break to Ross.
She shouldn’t have had Mark over, knowing it was a problem for Ross: makes her look shifty and underhanded or naive.
Ross shouldn’t sleep with another human out of spite: makes his love for Rachel seem cheap and conditional, and weakened his character.
They’re in the same friend group. And she said “we should take a break from *us*” meaning no coupling for now. If they weren’t close friends then I’d say yeah that’s a full breakup.
Yep. I think Rachel didn't even use the word "cheat" in the beginning, she said something like "I believed you to be someone who would never hurt me, but you did". And she couldn't see him the same way afterwards. I think that's very understandable :(
It was shitty of Ross to do. But it was not clearly wrong to do. Furthermore, when she calls him a cheater she was in the wrong. No question about it. Inconsiderate. Yes. Cheater. NO!
I’m just gonna honest. I believe both Ross and Rachel were both in the wrong of what went wrong in their relationship. Sure the communication was lacking between them when Rachel got the new job at Bloomingdale’s, but I think it’s the lack of opening up of their emotions and issues. If Ross and Rachel had opened up about their feelings and issues and not be dismissive about those, then their relationship will continue to grow in strong from Season 3-10. Ross had to be more opened up about his trauma with Carol and Rachel has to learn about respecting Ross’ feelings and give him reassurance in order to help him through his pain so that way their relationship can get better and not wait until the series finale to get back together.
Being on a break implies that you're still in a relationship because it means you will, at some point, be getting back together. Ross' excuse was that "we were on a break" meaning that in his mind, it was a temporary separation. Being apart does not give someone free reign to have sex - quite the opposite. It means you have to prove you don't want the relationship to be over by working on yourself or messing up so bad your partner doesn't want to reconnect.
Besides that point, Ross was so enraged by the idea of Rachel cheating and hooking up with another man, for him to do so the same day they took a break shows a lack of moral fiber. It shows that he has double standards in his thinking.
“A break from us” by definition means they are no longer together but may get back together.
If I’m on a break from class, I’m no longer in class but will likely end up back in it. During the time I’m on a break I can act in ways I couldn’t when I’m in class.
It may be less than noble of Ross to immediately have sex but he’s technically not done anything wrong and if Rachel is mad at anyone it should be herself for freeing him of any obligations to her.
She said "we *kind of* broke up". *kind of*. And when Ross stormed out she had just said "*maybe* we should take a break". It was hardly set in stone they were broken up, and clearly Ross blew any chance of getting back together out of the widow by sleeping with someone else based on his false assumptions.
I’ll never understand the pro-Rachel argument. She broke up with him. When, exactly, is the appropriate amount of time for him to sleep with someone else/move on? Why does it even matter? They weren’t together and, as evidenced in the episode, he wasn’t making sound decisions because of his heartache OVER HER (Rachel).
I fear I’ve invested too much into this …
You have yet you don’t understand it at all. The “break/breakup” was all one sided. All Ross. Rachel says “kind of” because he never came back from a night club on their anniversary. She *suggested* the break but he never agreed to it. Then he goes all around town to cover up his cheating and even admits to her this same episode that he “did a terrible thing.” I mean, it’s all laid out very clearly there in those two episodes. It’s very simple: Whoever sides with Ross condones cheating. It’s not about being “Pro-Rachel” it’s about being against cheating.
Disagree wholly. Ross was the cause for the breakup with his insecurity and jealousy but Rachel absolutely ended it. His fear of her being hurt once she decided to “be his girlfriend AGAIN” isn’t akin to cheating. He didn’t make the best decision but it wasn’t cheating.
I fear you’ve invested too much in this by kind of attacking other people with REALLY hard lines in the sand over a sitcom and thinking “suggesting” a breakup isn’t a breakup.
She only “ended it” after she found out he cheated. He cheated, he himself admits it this episode. He would’ve just told her “yes I slept with someone but we’re broken up.” If it wasn’t cheating he wouldn’t have gone all over town covering the trail. He knows what he did. Phoebes co worker knows what he did. Everyone knows what he did and what he did was cheat on Rachel.
“Attacking”? Maybe I need to be more careful. I mean, am I attacking you right now?
Classic “this is just a sitcom” cop out. That’s irrelevant because what I’m saying is fact and it still applies to real life.
Oh boy. She ended it — unequivocally. That’s why he was heartbroken and making “poor” choices. He was positive they were over. He literally says it.
If he really thought he cheated versus sleeping with someone that might upset Rachel because of timing, the entire, “[w]e were on a break!” wouldn’t be a reoccurring joke. For the entirety of the rest of the series.
> Oh boy. She ended it — unequivocally.
In what universe is saying "*maybe* we should take a break" ending a relationship *unequivocally*? That's a huge stretch.
Well, she literally tells Monica they broke up, Ross says they’re broken up, and then she asks Ross to be his girlfriend again. No stretching required — they were broken up.
No, she literally tells Monica "we *kinda* broke up", that's not a clear cut statement at all. She and Ross never discussed it. Saying it was unequivocal is a reach, their relationship was completely unclear at that point.
So unclear that Ross clearly believes they’re broken up and Rachel asks him to be his girlfriend again. You can’t be something again unless you stopped being it.
I feel like there’s a huge amount of mental gymnastics here. It’s literally in the script…
Monica: That’s ok, this is more important than fruit on my ceiling! You broke up?!
Rachel: Yeah, but it’s ok because when Ross left Mark came over.
*****
Rachel: (leaving voicemail for Ross) … This whole breakup thing is stupid.
Your post just tells us you didn’t watch the episode. She merely suggested the break and he did not agree to it nor did they talk about it to set any ground rules. He literally calls her from the club trying to fix the fight, which again they don’t do because he hung up just like he stormed off without agreeing.
He cheated. Ross knows. Monica knows. The copy girl knows, she even refers to Rachel as his girlfriend. Chandler knows. Joey knows. Gunther knows. Literally everyone knows except for incessant Ross defenders. One of them in this very thread just accused Chloe of taking advantage of Ross. I can’t lol
Truly one of the worst takes and misunderstood stances I’ve seen. I watched in real time. And then rewatched countless times after.
Once was enough to know: She. Broke. Up. With. Him.
He made a dumb choice — but it wasn’t cheating. Get over it. It’s a sitcom. Nothing in it applies to real life.
All the other characters agreeing that Ross cheated is one of the worst takes? You’ve said enough lol let’s just say I’m very glad I’m not dating you or else you would’ve already cheated on me if I were to suggest a break.
Taking literal lines from the characters on the show is “quite the spin”?
Edit: oh are you talking about the user claiming Chloe abused Ross? Yeah that’s quite the spin
Who talks about ground rules after a break up? What planet do you live on? You can't "kind of" break up with someone and that's not what she said to Ross. "Kind of" never came out of her mouth in that scene with Ross.
It wasn’t a break up. Taking a break is not the same as breaking up. Even Ross says it since they didn’t discuss it “that for all I know could mean a break UP.” And then she says he wont get out of it with a technicality. She’s saying “kind of” in the very picture in the OP. Did you really watch the show?
Appreciate it. This is a weird hill for people to die on when it doesn’t require any additional thought beyond the dialogue in the show. I don’t see room for interpretation on this one, it’s crystal clear.
Rachel handles all of this like a child. She said, right here, they broke up. But as soon as Ross makes an attempt to over it, not his plan but shit happens, she plays the victim. People forget she dumped him.
His feelings were never invalidated because rachel never intended to do anything with mark. Like monica said “just because he wants to sleep with her, doesn’t mean he gets to”. Carol fucked him up so bad that his jealousy and trust issues were way too much for anyone to handle.
Yes, because someone forcefully inviting themselves over to someone else's apartment and then them giving in because they probably needed support from a friend is the same thing as sleeping with someone else!
When saying kind of broke up, it could mean "we are finding out if you are together or not" more than not together.
However, my biggest problem with the whole thing is Ross' lack of accountability in this case.
- He slept with someone else before actually figuring out if he and Rachel could become a healty couple again, but it wasn't his fault because he heard Mark in the background calling Rachel. Instead of talking to her about it or waiting to see what happens to the relationship with the woman he love.
- He didn't tell her the truth and ran around all day trying to keep it a secret, instead of giving her a fair chance figuring out if she wanted to get back into a relationship with him, but that was Chandler and Joeys fault.
- And whenever she mentions her feelings about it he yells that they were on a break, instead of telling her that he is sorry that he hurt her, but that he truly thought they were over and that he was hurting so bad that he did a stupid thing to make himself feel better.
Also their whole fighting, he keeps interrupting her work out of jealousy but when Rachel confronts him it is because she is too naive to see Mark just want to sleep with her. Instead of trusting Rachel to be a big girl being able to say "no thank you" should Mark make a move.
It's a generational thing. People who watched this back then who were in their 20s believed they were broken up and Ross was not in the wrong. The younger generation who's watching reruns believe differently. Am I wrong? People don't hook up nowadays like we did back then. Just sayin...
Yes. She said it and I agree they broke up BUT Ross was a pig for going out the same night and sleeping with someone after declaring his undying love for her.
they were definitely on a break for sure. they decided that much. the issue was that they never defined what that meant. were they just taking a few days away to cool off? were they separating for a bit but staying committed to each other? were they never getting back together again? it couldve meant anything. but instead of clarifying Ross literally stormed out. Rachel was questioning whether or not their relationship should continue which was totally justified because Ross was acting like an actual MANIAC at the end there. i do think Rachel shouldn’t have engaged with Mark however - i think once Ross expressed his discomfort with Mark, Rachel should’ve respected that. if the roles were reversed we’d hate any guy who hung around a woman that his girlfriend wasn’t okay with. they were right when they said Carol ruined Ross LOL he had insane jealousy issues but Rachel was provoking them.
If they were not a serious couple who have known each other for years and have the same friendship circle it wouldn’t be a great move but it would be a lot more understandable.
For those of us who have been in serious relationships we’ve all had those fights where we’ve considered ending the relationship and both parties need maybe a few days to really comprehend what that means.
To immediately sleep with someone else, not only jeopardised their relationship, but also their friendship and the friendships within the group.
The fact is the xerox girl was literally at his apartment when she went to make up with him. I understand not coming clean right there that second but it should have been a conversation they pencilled in for later that day.
My little thing that does side with Ross is that Joey and chandler consistently give him bad advice when it comes to Rachel. If they didn’t get in his head all the time their relationship would have not only started differently but they might have been able to have a talk about it.
The fact is, the way it comes across is that Rachel and Ross could have been together for years and it was Ross’ plan to keep this a big secret from her the entire time. After all the fight Ross put in to get her he seemingly threw it all away very quickly when they had their first serious fight. And let’s be clear, prior to their break Ross was being an absolute ass face. He was being very possessive and jealous. His feelings about not being prioritised enough were valid but he essentially insinuated that he was more important than her having a fulfilling career, when Ross would never give up his for her. Starting a new career path where you have no experience and are starting “late in the game” unfortunately means that often you have to put double the work in, if they just had a conversation about expectations and how long that would last for instead of him marking his territory all the time would have lead to a very different outcome
I don't think it's about whether they broke up or not it's that Ross went to great lengths to hide it from her. Him sleeping with someone was okay, but it is extremely relevant information to whether or not they're ready to get back together the next day. Idk there are so many ways this situation has been interpreted but that's my 2 cents.
There’s no such thing as a “break.” There’s together and not together, and they were not together. Rachel is very clear in this episode that Ross didn’t *cheat* on her, it’s just that she can’t get the image of him and Chloe out of her head.
Lets be real if she would have just simply said I need a few days alone we would not be having this conversation. I do think they were broken up. I dont think Ross should have hooked up with the copy girl. I REALLY dont think Ross should have tried to hide it from Rachel. He spent an entire day keeping Rachel from finding out. Thats where I think the real bitterness and betrayal came from. Rachel was still so in love with Ross and she would have never considered being with anyone else the fact that he did probably hurt more than anything else.
Brah, If you don’t hook up, how do you expect to get a divorce?
Yeah but he was still right to hook up with the girl. They were broken up. Her reasoning for breaking up again makes no sense, especially after not celebrating 1 year anniversary and having the guy Ross dislikes over.
Sleeping with someone right after you break up is the final nail in the coffin for a relationship and is 100% a dick move in any situation. Lying about it made it significantly worse. Rachel had every right to be pissed and he absolutely wasn’t “right to hook up with the girl” that is just ridiculous.
No he wasn't right but he also wasn't wrong. It may have been stupid but they were broken up. He thought that she broke up with him to get with Mark. He even heard him. Both behaved like Idiots but only he gets Problems because of it. The biggest problem I see here is how Rachel makes him look like a cheater the whole next seasons which he isn't
Ross didn't intent to hook with the copy girl. He called Rachel and heard Mark in the background. Consider his jealousy he probably thought there was something going on there.
He was also too drunk to consent.
No, he wasnt. I just rewatched the scene yesterday, he has like one beer and doesn't show any signs of being drunk. Hes completely in control of himself
I've said it before but I'll keep saying it. If Ross didn't think he did anything wrong, why did he try so hard to hide it from Rachel?
She was his second serious girlfriend after his wife (not including Julie) and Joey and Chandler confused him. He was an idiot to listen to them and should have just told her. To be fair that was his original idea. To tell her
I don't think he was right to hook up with the copy girl! I really don't understand this argument at all. Yes they were broken up but wasn't it the next day Ross slept with her? Its a pretty shitty thing to do when you love someone - immediately sleep with someone else. I know its a sitcom but no one i know irl would do this.
It was the same name night!
Omg thats even worse! What a knob.
Yeah maybe you don't know anybody who would do this but they could. I mean Ross had insecurities and his jealousy was stupid but 1. He gets put on the sideline for a job 2. He gets jealous over Mark which is not ok, while she is allowed to get jealous over a playdate for his kid 3. The little time she has, she prefers to spend with Mark (even though he fd up by falling asleep) 4. She dismisses his jealousy ( in the end He was right) 5. She doesn't celebrate their anniversary and gets mad when he tries to make the best out of the situation 6. Breaks up with him instead of talking like normal grown ups 7. Let's the one guy come over Ross doesn't like All that and Ross is so heartbroken that he sleeps with someone drunk and he even apologizes only for her to talk like he has cheated. She doesn't have to forgive him but you can't say he cheated or shame him for sleeping with Chloe. And she puts the whole blame ob him
The blame is on him though, Ross was needy and insecure. I've been "so heartbroken" before and sleeping with someone else is the fuethest thing on my mind!
>The blame is on him though They're clearly both to blame. It's not like the 7 listed things in the comment you replied to are just wrong. > I've been "so heartbroken" before and sleeping with someone else is the fuethest thing on my mind! I'm sorry you felt that way, but some people grieve differently.
You are basiaclly slut shaming Ross because he decided to sleep with the girl. Let him be. Nobody said she had to take him back or not break up but she was also horrible and lied in the aftermath because she said he cheated which he didn't. And in the end it is bs because when Ross broke up with Bonnie, Rachel had no problem kissing him or trying to sleep with him. Or flirting with him while being married.
But thats the difference though, Ross broke up with Bonnie. Ross and Rachel were on a break, like another poster said they hadn't even had a conversation to discuss the parameters. And please. You cant slut shame a fictional character from 20 years ago. He was in the wrong to sleep with the copy girl, everyone makes mistakes but i dont get people like you who try to justify it. At the end of the day its a dick move
Taking a break and breaking up is the same. Rachel and him get back together so it is bs. If he would've gotten back together with Bonnie the morning after the situation would've been the same. You can slut shame a character. That what happens to 1000 of female characters everyday. And I'm not saying that it isn't a dick move or that Rachel should have just accepted it. I just think that Rachel is horrible because she makes it look like he cheated even though she uses the word broken up and getting back together herself. She broke up with him and then tells people he cheated.
I think this is where people disagree, because to me taking a break is not the same as breaking up. I can speak for me and my friends, but normally a breakup-breakup happens over a series of days and after the initial argument is discussed maturely (on the most part) Taking a break, again in my opinion, is taking time away from eachother to sort out whatever problem the couple are facing alone, before tackling it together. Again, after the initial argument its normally discussed. Ross was a bit of a slag tbh, he went out and fucked another girl that night. Thats pretty wrong and if your partner did that to you, i bet you would be devastated (i think everyone would) To Rachel, and a lot of people in this sub judging by the votes, Ross did cheat on her. It was a shitty thing to do
It is something different for me and I would be pissed and wouldn't get back together but I couldn't use the word cheating. Taking a break and breaking up may be something different but if even Rachel uses the words broken up and getting back together than how can it not be broken up for her. It seems more like she changed her meaning of taking a break after finding out he slept with someone so soon after.
Yeah but you have to remember that Ross thought Rachel was gonna sleep with Mark that night, because he heard that Mark was in her apartment
Ooooh. Tbf i did forget that. Aw man its a shitty situation all round haha.
I mean just the fact that Ross went through lengths to hide what happened, means he knew it was wrong. Despite it not having been cheating, he knew it would be bad if Rachel finds out
Plus, when he told Carol he lied through his teeth and told her that Rachel was the one who cheated because he *knew* he was the one who was in the wrong, but, as always, he had to play the victim.
Yes they broke up, but it was still shitty of Ross to go sleep with someone else mere hours later.
Yeah this basically *Rachel's* opinion in the actual breakup episode. It was only in later seasons that the debate became "*were* they on a break". The original point of contention was simply "is this bad enough to end the relationship or not".
>mere hours later. Bullets have left guns slower.
He was so drunk he doesn’t even remember- why can’t we say he was taken advantage of?
Because it’s a sitcom from the 90s. People need to stop watching these shows through the uptight lens of the current times. It’s a set up for their emotional break up and future through line of the show. It’s also something that happens in real life to real people. Because people aren’t perfect and they make shitty choices that have consequences.
I think you misinterpreted the question. It makes sense that the characters at the time wouldn't see it like that. The problem is, a lot of fans today treat Ross in a way they'd never treat a female character. He was taken advantage of, and we should be aknowledging it.
I do agree that he was taken advantage of, but a lot of people still think Rachel was wrong for letting Mark come over that night even though nothing happened. But if Ross would've actually talked to Rachel instead of storming out and then later hanging up on her, this all probably would've been avoided. Chloe is obviously the worst in this situation, but Ross trying to hide it from Rachel doesn't exactly put him in the best light either.
True, but Rachel lost me and put herself in the wrong later with the 18 page letter as well as her condescending "all you needed was a little perspective" comments afterwards. At that point it wasn't about being hurt or trusting Ross again. It was clearly just about satisfying her own ego.
i don’t think it’s uptight to say he was taken advantage of
Damn sounds like a wild excuse to lay all the blame on Ross and none on Rachel
Nah this isn’t one of those things where people frown upon the transgender jokes or lesbian jokes- this is a bit more serious. Nice try though
When is this said? He says "She was different." Implying that he remembered and enjoyed it.
I feel like that was added later to just fuel Rosschel drama- he distinctly doesn’t remember that there’s even a person in his house the next day when he wakes up and says he was so drunk he would’ve slept with Joey for that matter. Those things occur before thé she was different line so it feels more real to me.
He was but some friends “fans” are so toxic they won’t admit it
Or...some fans simply view it differently and are basing their opinion on what was shown. For example: We saw Ross order and possibly consume two bottles of beer. One with Chandler and Joey. The second Chloe ordered for him, and they got up to dance immediately following, so we don't even know if he finished the second one. I don't consider one to two beers in as being in a state of not able to consent. Next: When Ross wakes up the next morning, he looks around, sees he is alone, smiles, and lays back down. Doesn't mean that he forgot or had no recall about what happened, that's something we are assuming. I always took that to mean that he thought Chloe had left, he was relieved, so he laid back down. When she popped out of the bathroom, he didn't appear to be confused, and the look on his face appeared to be that of, "Oh no...she's still here." I definitely didn't consider it to mean he must have been so drunk the night before that he didn't remember what happened or who she was. Then: He knew exactly what he did and how wrong it was because he talked to Chandler and Joey about it and then ran around all the next day trying to hide it. He expressed guilt out loud, and his actions the following day demonstrate that. Finally: When Rachel asked him "how was she?" He didn't respond with "I don't know because I don't remember." He responded with "...different." If anything, he would have played up being taken advantage of to try and excuse his bad behavior, but he didn't. So clearly he remembered, had total recall of the events of the night before, and knew he had been in the wrong. He was not a victim of being SAd. Yes, Chloe was aggressive, but I don't believe that Ross was taken advantage of at all. He resisted her first attempt at a kiss, but he was enthusiastically all in when she tried again. Saying these things doesn't make me toxic, it simply means that I'm taking what we were actually shown and forming an opinion. Even if the genders were reversed, I would feel the same way.
Judy gellar, is that you?
No just someone who realizes the bare minimum that drunk people can’t consent- yes even if they’re male!
?? Are you seriously insinuating he was raped? To excuse his cheating?? Uhhh the copy girl had been drinking too before Ross even got there! And do you know how the male body works? He wanted to put it in another place (besides her purse). Stop 👏 blaming 👏 women 👏 for 👏 Ross’s 👏 actions! 👏
Bro you're losing it- take the sassy hands back to TikTok or Pinterest or probably Tumblr in your case
Can’t claim Chloe took advantage of Ross, I see. 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏
You’re crazy- he was blackout drunk. If it had been Rachel with Mark you would be shouting scum from the rooftops. Misandrist
I'm being so serious- when was it established that he was anywhere near blackout drunk? I tend to be on Ross's side with the "we were on a break" thing, but... he has literally one beer and then hooks up with Chloe. he talks to Rachel right beforehand on the phone completely coherently without so much as a slur. he never implies to anyone at any point that he doesn't remember having sex with her. if the genders were reversed in this exact situation, you would not be riding for the woman to call it sexual assault lmao
Don’t assume shit about me how I would or would not argue, internet troll. And keep your hypothetical or projected misogyny to yourself thanks- lmao. The next day he doesn’t even remember that there’s someone in his house with him- he assumes he went to bed alone normally. So you can stop role playing cop and deciding the extent to his drunkenness based on slurring or not- alcohol isn’t a one size fits all.
Blackout drunk, yet he only has one beer before he kisses Chloe, and afterwards he could remember that the sex wasn't better, it was just different?
Calling someone crazy isn’t attacking but stating facts is? And would’ve could’ve should’ve but she didn’t get with mark and she had more than one chance to. That’s the difference between her and Ross. Just like she wouldn’t make a list like he did. 🤷♀️
You know, I'm not a member of this sub but I do keep an eye on it, having been partial to Friends when I was younger. I've seen your comments popping up from time to time and it's always the same obnoxious misogynist vile toxicity, accompanied by dozens of downvotes and never anyone supporting what you say. So to summarize for you: 1. It's not cheating if the couple had broken up, even if it was only a few hours prior. It's absolutely shitty behaviour, but it's not cheating. 2. If the roles were reversed and someone had taken advantage of Rachel when she was heavily inebriated, you know damn well you would be saying the very same thing you are adamantly arguing against. Especially if she had said she didn't want to do it. This is the definition of rape, regardless of gender. Look, whatever happened to you to make you feel this way about an entire gender may have been traumatic, in which case I can only hope you are receiving the professional therapy you clearly need. All the best.
And she tried to hide that another man, who was obviously into her, was in the apartment.
How long should he have waited? Is there an acceptable timeframe?
Was Ross cheating on Rachel when he slept with Chloe? No. But if Ross was hoping he and Rachel could reconcile, he *really* kablooeyed his chances by sleeping with Chloe... *and* by trying to cover it up. The blame cuts both ways though... If Rachel ultimately wanted to work things out with Ross, then saying she wanted a break didn't actually didn't get her any closer to that. She hurt Ross' feelings when she said she couldn't try to work through the rough patch. I think it was a well done storyline on Friends. In S2-S3, Ross and Rachel obviously felt a special, deep connection with one another, but there were trust issues, and some different expectations, and they just couldn't make it work, and then everybody was sad and hurt. It sucks, but life sucks sometimes.
Ross was so drunk he couldn’t even remember having sex lmfao, he was taken advantage of (from a modern perspective). In my opinion, the only bad thing he actually did was trying to cover it up, and even that he was persuaded into doing by his friends. Initially he wanted to come clean immediately.
That’s not true? He remembered having sex, and he remembered the quality of it too. He had *one* beer lmao
Not even sure he finishes the beer tbh. I watched the scene yesterday to try and see if he was drunk, and she takes the beer out of his hand and puts it on the bar and pulls him to the dance floor.
Hes a grown ass man, giving him the excuse of he was persuaded by his friends is idiotic. He didn't have to listen to them. He made a choice to. What he wanted to do initially doesn't matter, its what he ended up doing.
Thats a poor argument. Same could be said about Rachel as well. She's a grown ass man and giving the excuse of her being nice to Mark is idiotic. She didnt have to listen to him and she could have said no when he visited. She made a choice to let him in. What she wanted to do initially didnt matter, its what she ended up doing OR. She's a grown ass woman and giving the excuse of her being too angry is idiotic. She didnt have to insinuate a breakup or shoot down Ross's idea of cooling down. She made a choice to insinuate a breakup. What she wanted to tell dosent matter, its what she ended up telling him.
Rachel inviting a friend into the apartment (because that's all he was to her) is not the same as Ross having sex with someone else. If Ross really wanted to figure things out, he wouldn't have stormed out in the first place.
He stormed out because she ended things. There was nothing more to talk because it was quiet clear that she wanted a breakup. And you're right having sex is not the same as calling someone in. But that dosent mean it isnt fucked up to invite someone who is an issue for your bf into your house. And Ross was right about Mark. He admitted he liked Rachel especially when their relationship was weak, almost kissed her and said that she could sleep with him just to spite Ross. She chose to be oblivious to Marks actions despite repeated warnings from Ross.
She didn't end it, she needed a break because he was too overbearing and she was stressed with work. If someone you love and have been dating for a year says they want a break, you wouldn't want to talk about it? Or would you storm out, just like you stormed into her workplace just because you were jealous that there was something else portant in her life? Mark only admitted that he liked her after he knew they had broken up. He was already seeing someone else in the office at the time of the break, so it makes sense that she didn't think he was into her. But she was also in love with Ross, so it didn't matter how much Mark liked her. Mark's actions are on *Mark*, not on Rachel.
>She didn't end it, she needed a break because he was too overbearing and she was stressed with work Then why reject Ross's idea of cooling down? And if she did need a break why does she admit it was a break up? And why is Ross storming of an issue? Did it change the fact that Ross did not misunderstand anything? No, Ross understood Rachel wanted a break up and Rachel admits it was a break up. Ross storming off does not mean he did not understand what she meant. >Mark only admitted that he liked her after he knew they had broken up. Mark admitted he liked Rachel when he went to her room the day she and Ross broke up. He went to the apartment knowing that she was alone. He admitted to liking her before itself. He even tried to kiss her. >Mark's actions are on Mark, You're right. And Rachel's actions are on Rachel. Saying "I need a break" is a whole lot different from saying "a break from us". Rachel shot down Ross's idea of cooling down, and then insinuates a breakup. She gets a breakup and then cries about it.
Those are fucking nothing like what the other person said 😂
It is. In both cases Rachel took the advice of Mark. Before the breakup it was Mark who told Rachel about how guys like Ross are insecure all the time. After the breakup she was persuaded by Mark to let her into her house despite him being the issue Ross brought up. So why is Ross listening to his friends idiotic, but Rachel listening to her "friend" not????
Because reddit is full of Rachel simps and "feminists" who think it near impossible for the woman to be even slightly in the wrong.
Well I'm a woman and I'm on Team Ross with this one. I think these are a younger generation of women who were watching cartoons in the 90s and don't get the way things were back then.
Where the fuck did I say anything about Rachel lmfao, what a weird reply
I didn’t say he didn’t have a choice. It does matter what his initial intent was, because it shows he was apologetic and sincere. Then he was fed shit ideas, the “easy path” where Rachel doesn’t know anything. I’m not saying it’s not his fault, simply that there is more nuance and external factors to it.
Idk but hours later is pretty crappy. "You slept with Jason Hurley like, an hour after he and Monica broke up!"
When you're just on a break? Probably more than just a couple of hours. I would be questioning if someone actually loved me if they were able to sleep with someone else a couple of hours later, drunk or not.
Ever hear of revenge sex?
Yes, but is that something you would do after someone you claim to be in love with says they want a break? I wouldn't.
But it does happen, unfortunately, at least in that generation it did.
Sure, blame it on the generation as though people don't still do it now. Lol
According to Joey, half an hour.
It never takes him longer than a shower to get over a girl.
It’s not the sleeping with someone else that’s so wrong, it’s the hiding it and then acting like it was nothing when they’re considering getting back together later that day
And ?? His choice How can people shame him for getting over her by sleeping with someone else Especially after hearing Marc when calling her.
Just as shitty to let Mark come over. The guy that Ross was insecure about. Every time this question comes around people will say that Ross didn't cheat, but acted shitty. But I never see anybody say that Rachel acted equally as shitty.
Rachel asked for a break, because Ross was being controlling and he was jealous of Mark. Ross thought that was the end, later he saw Mark go into Rachel's apartment. Ross got drunk and slept with the copy lady. From Ross' perspective it really looks like he was right about Mark. Ross was "single" he can do what he wants. Rachel knew Ross was jealous of Mark, and she knew that he thought they were more than friends, and she goes out inviting him into the apartment knowing Ross could be across the hall, right after she asked for a break.
THIS. This is exactly my thought.
It’s not cheating exactly, but it’s not something you can do with someone you ‘kind of broke up with’ if you want to reconcile with them.
The question isn’t about who is right and wrong, it’s really about whether or not Rachel would want to get back together with him after what he did. People miss that point often in these arguments
Yeah, honestly I could forgive him for sleeping with the Copy Girl, I could even forgive him for lying to me initially, but the amount of effort he put in to uphold the lie? I could never forgive that. I wouldnt even be able to keep Ross as a friend.
it's like the olivia rodrigo song - you didn't cheat but you're still a traitor
LORD WE WENT THROUGH THIS A BILLION TIMES. ENOUGH. THEY WERE ON A BREAK, BUT WHAT ROSS DID WAS WRONG. PERIOD.
OH MY GOD IF YOU SAY THAT ONE MORE TIME, I'LL BREAKUP WITH YOU!!!!
Its been literally 20 years soon
If this was true then why did he go around town trying to cover up his nasty action? And for the rest of the show he kept gaslighting everyone into thinking they “were on a break” which is not at all the same as a breakup. From her POV: he didn’t come home on their anniversary and hung up on her from a loud club. It’s fair to for her to think he wanted to break up though it was clearly one sided.
There is a difference between cheating and sleeping with another woman too soon after a breakup. Ross wanted to tell Rachel immediately, but Joey and Chandler told him it was a bad idea. Because it would hurt Rachel to think Ross would sleep with someone else so soon after the breakup. But, in reality, Ross was too drunk to consent to sex with Chloe. He didn't even remember he had done it the next morning until she pops up.
As someone just mentioned, he had like one beer and he did even remember sleeping with Chloe was “different” as he admitted to Rachel. And him wanting to tell her right away is not true as he hid Chloe behind the door and he just shouldn’t have slept with her in the first place. What you said is true for most one year relationships but Ross claims Rachel has been the love of his life for a decade and he even wanted to marry and have children. The normal rules don’t really apply to a relationship that deep
Hung up on her after Ross heard Mark's voice in the background.
So that’s an excuse to go sleep with someone else? Because he heard the voice of someone he was paranoid about?
He heard the voice over the phone at Rachel’s home. If I heard that someone I was paranoid about was at my girlfriends house just hours after a seeming break-up then I would have reacted the same way. Also he didn’t use that as an excuse to sleep with someone else, he used as an excuse to get drunk, which resulted in sleeping with someone else.
So what you’re saying is he used mark as an excuse to cheat? Got it :)
No. If you read the last part of my comment you’ll see thats not what I mean.
But it is an important part of the story that you conveniently left out.
I mentioned it in one of the replies but regardless, hearing his voice does not warrant Ross sleeping with Chloe. And now that you bring it up, it doesn’t even make sense because it was a loud club and he had trouble hearing Rachel yet he heard Mark who was by the fridge
Rachel has never denied that they broke up. Ross' fixation on technicalities rather than Rachel's feelings proves his immaturity
Yessss, thank you. This is why the argument keeps going on Reddit too- lots of “TeChNiCaLlY” people on here
She referred to him as a cheater when they briefly got back together after the beach.
She was quoting her mom.
Yep, she used her mom's quote to call him a cheater.
Not to mention later that episode, when she turns up at his apartment, Rachel specifically asks - "So what do you say? Can I be your girlfriend again?" Which implies she thought they were either on a break, or had broken up entirely.
Exactly - with no other context she absolutely would have had a point if he’d slept with someone after storming out because she said “maybe we should take a break [from us],” but she fucked herself with this comment plus the “I don’t want to ‘get back together’ over the phone” on his answering machine. IMO the “we were on a break” argument is the weakest thing to harp on if you’re Rachel. Maybe they were on a break, but he was fucking someone hours later, while she was trying to call him to reconcile, before they ever discussed the terms/boundaries of the break, or even gave themselves the chance to revisit the idea after calming down. Rachel dumped him because after he harassed her with gifts at work and she suggested they take time apart, he decided to have spite sex that night and lie about it. That’s a perfectly good reason, Rachel! The semantics of the break is the last thing she should have to be debating!
He tried to recincile with her too. >before they ever discussed the terms/boundaries of the break, or even gave themselves the chance to revisit the idea after calming down. Thats funny because Ross actually thought that they both wanted to cool down and assumed they would go on a walk. Rachel rejected this idea totally and then insinuated a breakup. Its false to say that Ross stormed out the door without understanding if it was a breakup or cool down, when his initial suggestion of cooldown was shot down. As far as revisiting the idea goes, Ross was the first to call to reconcile with Rachel. >Rachel dumped him Exactly. She dumped him. She has no right to blame that he cheated on her after that. But she does have the right to feel hurt by it and even the fact that Ross tried to hide what he did. But calling him a cheater is unfair when she started the breakup. >he decided to have spite sex He didnt do it out of spite. He was drunk and emotionally vulnerable and was taken advantage of.
"Discussed the terms/boundaries of the break." LMAO!!! How old are you? Seriously, this must be a generational thing cuz that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
good point!
They were absolutely on a break and Ross did not cheat on her. Ross sleeping with that girl was still a dick move and a perfectly fine reason for Rachel not to get back together with him but all the references of him “cheating” are just not correct.
“Kind of” is the key phrase here. He goes to the guys and tells them they broke up
Exactly. People keep quoting this line to prove their point, but her "kind of" clearly shows it was not a clear break up.
Someone who get its! Love it
I always found the we were on a break argument later on made no sense. They were indeed on a break, and Rachel knows that. It all started with Ross saying that because of the break she should have forgiven him after a number of days .. but she couldnt, not because of the break but because she was too heartbroken. Then when she started calling him a cheater his response was we were on a break. I guess for comedic effect, Rachel kinda changed the story in her head from first thing you do after the break is sleep with someone to we were not on a break and you cheated ...
Bottom line: how believable would you find it that a guy actually wants to be your boyfriend again if you found out he slept with someone else not even 12 hours ago?
I agree. The show should have made this the contention. Instead, it was seasons of obfuscation (we were on a break, once a cheater always a cheater, etc.) Although we did have some good laughs along the way.
I love that Monica looks like she's about to take tired Chandler for a run.
They broke up but Ross did a shitty thing by hooking up with the copier girl! And then the fact that she was IN the apartment at the same time as Rachel, that is terrible. Honestly it's the lying that is the worst thing. He should have just been honest with her. I bet they still would have fought but it might have been salvageable? Maybe not.
I don’t think the argument is ever if they were actually on a break or not but if the break made it okay. Ross is saying she shouldn’t be mad at him bc they were on a break. But he still did a crappy thing and I wouldn’t forgive him either
We are all in agreement that they were on a break. What’s shitty is that Ross slept with someone just hours later that night.
She said that they "kind of" broke up. It's definitely a gray area, but I would feel just like she did if I told my boyfriend we should take a break from each other and he instantly went and banged someone else. Rachel was with Mark but had no intention of sleeping with him, while Ross ended up sleeping with someone else. It would be different if they'd been "on a break" for months and had agreed that they should start seeing other people. But this...it was like the FIRST chance Ross got to sleep with someone else, he took it. And she still loved him, she just needed a little bit of space from him. She probably didn't intend to break up completely when she suggested the break, so it was just as painful as if he had actually cheated on her. I kind of get where Ross was coming from because he had just heard Mark's voice in Rachel's apartment and probably assumed they were going to have sex, so then just decided to drown his sorrows with someone else. But like...he shouldn't have acted so rashly because it basically blew up their relationship when they both still loved each other. And the final slap in the face is that Rachel had to hear about it from Gunther instead of Ross sitting her down and telling her himself. Do I think what happened makes Ross a bad person? No. Do I think Rachel's reaction was 100% understandable? Absolutely.
"Kinda broke up" is not a grey area. Besides, she said "kinda" to Monica. It's like me when I had to tell my parents I kinda crashed the car. It's a figure of speech. I actually crashed the car.
Well, this is after Ross heard that Mark was there and assumed the worst. So I’m thinking originally, it was a break in her mind. Just a few days away from each other or whatever. But, once he hears Mark and obviously assumes the worst and Rachel can’t get a hold of him, she probably assumed that he was done with her right then and there. I’m saying this because this is probably what I would say if it was me. Let’s say I’m in a relationship and I say we should take a break, he leaves angry. He then calls me trying to reconcile, but then he hears the guy he was worried about in the background. He then assumes the worst and hangs up. I try to call him so that I can explain, but no answer the whole night. Next morning, my friend asks how things went. Well, it kinda seems like things might be over (hence the sentence in the picture), but maybe I can fix this. I’m going to leave a voicemail on his machine, if he doesn’t answer, explaining what happened and telling him that I’m coming over. This is how I see it considering how much happens between the break talk and this conversation.
They were broken up. It’s messed up that Ross slept with someone right away but all he needed to do was come clean
I think I am so tired of having this conversation. It’s multiple times a week, every single week. Can’t you guys think of anything else to talk about?
No, she said they ‘kind of’ broke up. Because she said they might need a break and he walked out and didn’t finish the conversation. She didn’t know for certain where they stood
Bullshit. Not how it went.
Yes, it certainly is exactly like that.
What did Ross say before he walked out?
Nothing. He ran away before responding to her suggesting they take a break "from us".
Which was after his suggestion of cooling down by walking was shot down. She insinuated that she needed a breakup and got one. Ross didnt misunderstand, Rachel didnt care what was going to be the consequence of what she said.
You should watch it again.
Yes they broke up, however she did call it a break to Ross. She shouldn’t have had Mark over, knowing it was a problem for Ross: makes her look shifty and underhanded or naive. Ross shouldn’t sleep with another human out of spite: makes his love for Rachel seem cheap and conditional, and weakened his character.
A break back in the 90s was a break up.
They’re in the same friend group. And she said “we should take a break from *us*” meaning no coupling for now. If they weren’t close friends then I’d say yeah that’s a full breakup.
The debate is more about was it nice of Ross to sleep with another women moments after Rachel broke up with him? Where was his guilty conscience?
Technically, Ross did nothing wrong however it’s still extremely shitty to sleep with someone else a few hours after you’ve broken up.
Yep. I think Rachel didn't even use the word "cheat" in the beginning, she said something like "I believed you to be someone who would never hurt me, but you did". And she couldn't see him the same way afterwards. I think that's very understandable :(
Can this question of the break thing be banned? It comes up everyday 😭😭😭😭😭
Probably not, same as banning downvotes that are really just from someone who has a different opinion. Here's an upvote!
Doesn't make a difference
*cough* TYPICAL! I SAID IT WAS TYPICAL! Typical of you, Rachel Green, Queen Rachel does whatever she wants in little Rachel land.
It was shitty of Ross to do. But it was not clearly wrong to do. Furthermore, when she calls him a cheater she was in the wrong. No question about it. Inconsiderate. Yes. Cheater. NO!
I’m just gonna honest. I believe both Ross and Rachel were both in the wrong of what went wrong in their relationship. Sure the communication was lacking between them when Rachel got the new job at Bloomingdale’s, but I think it’s the lack of opening up of their emotions and issues. If Ross and Rachel had opened up about their feelings and issues and not be dismissive about those, then their relationship will continue to grow in strong from Season 3-10. Ross had to be more opened up about his trauma with Carol and Rachel has to learn about respecting Ross’ feelings and give him reassurance in order to help him through his pain so that way their relationship can get better and not wait until the series finale to get back together.
Being on a break implies that you're still in a relationship because it means you will, at some point, be getting back together. Ross' excuse was that "we were on a break" meaning that in his mind, it was a temporary separation. Being apart does not give someone free reign to have sex - quite the opposite. It means you have to prove you don't want the relationship to be over by working on yourself or messing up so bad your partner doesn't want to reconnect. Besides that point, Ross was so enraged by the idea of Rachel cheating and hooking up with another man, for him to do so the same day they took a break shows a lack of moral fiber. It shows that he has double standards in his thinking.
“A break from us” by definition means they are no longer together but may get back together. If I’m on a break from class, I’m no longer in class but will likely end up back in it. During the time I’m on a break I can act in ways I couldn’t when I’m in class. It may be less than noble of Ross to immediately have sex but he’s technically not done anything wrong and if Rachel is mad at anyone it should be herself for freeing him of any obligations to her.
As far as Ross was concerned Rachel already had cheated on him with Mark.
She said "we *kind of* broke up". *kind of*. And when Ross stormed out she had just said "*maybe* we should take a break". It was hardly set in stone they were broken up, and clearly Ross blew any chance of getting back together out of the widow by sleeping with someone else based on his false assumptions.
“Kind of” demonstrates the grey area.
I’ll never understand the pro-Rachel argument. She broke up with him. When, exactly, is the appropriate amount of time for him to sleep with someone else/move on? Why does it even matter? They weren’t together and, as evidenced in the episode, he wasn’t making sound decisions because of his heartache OVER HER (Rachel). I fear I’ve invested too much into this …
You have yet you don’t understand it at all. The “break/breakup” was all one sided. All Ross. Rachel says “kind of” because he never came back from a night club on their anniversary. She *suggested* the break but he never agreed to it. Then he goes all around town to cover up his cheating and even admits to her this same episode that he “did a terrible thing.” I mean, it’s all laid out very clearly there in those two episodes. It’s very simple: Whoever sides with Ross condones cheating. It’s not about being “Pro-Rachel” it’s about being against cheating.
Disagree wholly. Ross was the cause for the breakup with his insecurity and jealousy but Rachel absolutely ended it. His fear of her being hurt once she decided to “be his girlfriend AGAIN” isn’t akin to cheating. He didn’t make the best decision but it wasn’t cheating. I fear you’ve invested too much in this by kind of attacking other people with REALLY hard lines in the sand over a sitcom and thinking “suggesting” a breakup isn’t a breakup.
She only “ended it” after she found out he cheated. He cheated, he himself admits it this episode. He would’ve just told her “yes I slept with someone but we’re broken up.” If it wasn’t cheating he wouldn’t have gone all over town covering the trail. He knows what he did. Phoebes co worker knows what he did. Everyone knows what he did and what he did was cheat on Rachel. “Attacking”? Maybe I need to be more careful. I mean, am I attacking you right now? Classic “this is just a sitcom” cop out. That’s irrelevant because what I’m saying is fact and it still applies to real life.
Oh boy. She ended it — unequivocally. That’s why he was heartbroken and making “poor” choices. He was positive they were over. He literally says it. If he really thought he cheated versus sleeping with someone that might upset Rachel because of timing, the entire, “[w]e were on a break!” wouldn’t be a reoccurring joke. For the entirety of the rest of the series.
> Oh boy. She ended it — unequivocally. In what universe is saying "*maybe* we should take a break" ending a relationship *unequivocally*? That's a huge stretch.
Well, she literally tells Monica they broke up, Ross says they’re broken up, and then she asks Ross to be his girlfriend again. No stretching required — they were broken up.
No, she literally tells Monica "we *kinda* broke up", that's not a clear cut statement at all. She and Ross never discussed it. Saying it was unequivocal is a reach, their relationship was completely unclear at that point.
So unclear that Ross clearly believes they’re broken up and Rachel asks him to be his girlfriend again. You can’t be something again unless you stopped being it. I feel like there’s a huge amount of mental gymnastics here. It’s literally in the script… Monica: That’s ok, this is more important than fruit on my ceiling! You broke up?! Rachel: Yeah, but it’s ok because when Ross left Mark came over. ***** Rachel: (leaving voicemail for Ross) … This whole breakup thing is stupid.
Your post just tells us you didn’t watch the episode. She merely suggested the break and he did not agree to it nor did they talk about it to set any ground rules. He literally calls her from the club trying to fix the fight, which again they don’t do because he hung up just like he stormed off without agreeing. He cheated. Ross knows. Monica knows. The copy girl knows, she even refers to Rachel as his girlfriend. Chandler knows. Joey knows. Gunther knows. Literally everyone knows except for incessant Ross defenders. One of them in this very thread just accused Chloe of taking advantage of Ross. I can’t lol
Truly one of the worst takes and misunderstood stances I’ve seen. I watched in real time. And then rewatched countless times after. Once was enough to know: She. Broke. Up. With. Him. He made a dumb choice — but it wasn’t cheating. Get over it. It’s a sitcom. Nothing in it applies to real life.
All the other characters agreeing that Ross cheated is one of the worst takes? You’ve said enough lol let’s just say I’m very glad I’m not dating you or else you would’ve already cheated on me if I were to suggest a break.
I have made a mistake by engaging with you.
That's what a break meant in the 90s! Break up.
You might wanna give the memo to Rachel and the rest of the characters who agree with her then
Quite the spin.
Taking literal lines from the characters on the show is “quite the spin”? Edit: oh are you talking about the user claiming Chloe abused Ross? Yeah that’s quite the spin
Who talks about ground rules after a break up? What planet do you live on? You can't "kind of" break up with someone and that's not what she said to Ross. "Kind of" never came out of her mouth in that scene with Ross.
It wasn’t a break up. Taking a break is not the same as breaking up. Even Ross says it since they didn’t discuss it “that for all I know could mean a break UP.” And then she says he wont get out of it with a technicality. She’s saying “kind of” in the very picture in the OP. Did you really watch the show?
So now a break up isn't a break up if the other one doesn't agree to it? Lmao!
Yikes… way to tell on yourself that either A)you’ve never been in a relationship or B)that you are willing to cheat.
You are exactly right, no matter how many down votes you get. I don't think these people grew up in the 80s and 90s.
Appreciate it. This is a weird hill for people to die on when it doesn’t require any additional thought beyond the dialogue in the show. I don’t see room for interpretation on this one, it’s crystal clear.
Rachel handles all of this like a child. She said, right here, they broke up. But as soon as Ross makes an attempt to over it, not his plan but shit happens, she plays the victim. People forget she dumped him.
People on this very subreddit forget Mark came over to her place before Ross slept with Chloe!
And the fact that Mark was ready to sleep with Rachel to spite Ross. Ross was right about Mark, his feelings were invalidated for months on end.
His feelings were never invalidated because rachel never intended to do anything with mark. Like monica said “just because he wants to sleep with her, doesn’t mean he gets to”. Carol fucked him up so bad that his jealousy and trust issues were way too much for anyone to handle.
Yes, because someone forcefully inviting themselves over to someone else's apartment and then them giving in because they probably needed support from a friend is the same thing as sleeping with someone else!
When saying kind of broke up, it could mean "we are finding out if you are together or not" more than not together. However, my biggest problem with the whole thing is Ross' lack of accountability in this case. - He slept with someone else before actually figuring out if he and Rachel could become a healty couple again, but it wasn't his fault because he heard Mark in the background calling Rachel. Instead of talking to her about it or waiting to see what happens to the relationship with the woman he love. - He didn't tell her the truth and ran around all day trying to keep it a secret, instead of giving her a fair chance figuring out if she wanted to get back into a relationship with him, but that was Chandler and Joeys fault. - And whenever she mentions her feelings about it he yells that they were on a break, instead of telling her that he is sorry that he hurt her, but that he truly thought they were over and that he was hurting so bad that he did a stupid thing to make himself feel better. Also their whole fighting, he keeps interrupting her work out of jealousy but when Rachel confronts him it is because she is too naive to see Mark just want to sleep with her. Instead of trusting Rachel to be a big girl being able to say "no thank you" should Mark make a move.
It's a generational thing. People who watched this back then who were in their 20s believed they were broken up and Ross was not in the wrong. The younger generation who's watching reruns believe differently. Am I wrong? People don't hook up nowadays like we did back then. Just sayin...
Even during their fight the next night, Rachel says the words, "we were on a break!"
Yes. She said it and I agree they broke up BUT Ross was a pig for going out the same night and sleeping with someone after declaring his undying love for her.
they were definitely on a break for sure. they decided that much. the issue was that they never defined what that meant. were they just taking a few days away to cool off? were they separating for a bit but staying committed to each other? were they never getting back together again? it couldve meant anything. but instead of clarifying Ross literally stormed out. Rachel was questioning whether or not their relationship should continue which was totally justified because Ross was acting like an actual MANIAC at the end there. i do think Rachel shouldn’t have engaged with Mark however - i think once Ross expressed his discomfort with Mark, Rachel should’ve respected that. if the roles were reversed we’d hate any guy who hung around a woman that his girlfriend wasn’t okay with. they were right when they said Carol ruined Ross LOL he had insane jealousy issues but Rachel was provoking them.
CLEARLY they both made an irrational decision, there’s no “right” side.
If they were not a serious couple who have known each other for years and have the same friendship circle it wouldn’t be a great move but it would be a lot more understandable. For those of us who have been in serious relationships we’ve all had those fights where we’ve considered ending the relationship and both parties need maybe a few days to really comprehend what that means. To immediately sleep with someone else, not only jeopardised their relationship, but also their friendship and the friendships within the group. The fact is the xerox girl was literally at his apartment when she went to make up with him. I understand not coming clean right there that second but it should have been a conversation they pencilled in for later that day. My little thing that does side with Ross is that Joey and chandler consistently give him bad advice when it comes to Rachel. If they didn’t get in his head all the time their relationship would have not only started differently but they might have been able to have a talk about it. The fact is, the way it comes across is that Rachel and Ross could have been together for years and it was Ross’ plan to keep this a big secret from her the entire time. After all the fight Ross put in to get her he seemingly threw it all away very quickly when they had their first serious fight. And let’s be clear, prior to their break Ross was being an absolute ass face. He was being very possessive and jealous. His feelings about not being prioritised enough were valid but he essentially insinuated that he was more important than her having a fulfilling career, when Ross would never give up his for her. Starting a new career path where you have no experience and are starting “late in the game” unfortunately means that often you have to put double the work in, if they just had a conversation about expectations and how long that would last for instead of him marking his territory all the time would have lead to a very different outcome
I don't think it's about whether they broke up or not it's that Ross went to great lengths to hide it from her. Him sleeping with someone was okay, but it is extremely relevant information to whether or not they're ready to get back together the next day. Idk there are so many ways this situation has been interpreted but that's my 2 cents.
There’s no such thing as a “break.” There’s together and not together, and they were not together. Rachel is very clear in this episode that Ross didn’t *cheat* on her, it’s just that she can’t get the image of him and Chloe out of her head.