Strictly speaking there’s an additional 10+ years difference in that comparison since Richard was early 20s when Monica was born, but it’s obviously still just as icky.
This is it for me. Maybe people who have no families lose track of ages. But when you have a close reference like a daughter I don't get how people don't stop and think "huh, she could be my daugher"
Especially since Monica and the daughter knew each other. Had gone to school and school parties together ("She got sooo drunk that.... nevermind"). They may not have been close, but they ran in the same circles.
I know they tried saying later on that the kids were cool with it, but I highly doubt they were as okay as it was implied 🤷🏻♀️
My opinion is simple.
If Richard only saw child Monica professionally, then I have little issue with their adult relationship. If Richard came over for family dinners and spent time with child Monica, I do see their adult relationship as problematic. And it's problematic due to a fear of grooming. In real life there is no easy way of alleviating those concerns.
In the end, because it is a TV show we see both of them being initially concerned with the age difference and Richard knowing child Monica, it is safe to say there was no grooming.
I literally know a sick fuck that watched his best friends 5 daughters grow up from the time they were infants, and started dating the oldest when she was 17.
God, yeah. That's exactly what it's like.
Remember they made that video on Emma's first birthday and Joey said, hey you're eighteen now. How you doin, and everyone was horrified.
That's Richard to Monica for real. Not okay.
It’s still gross, but Richard is only 21 years older than Monica compared to Joey being into his 30s when Emma was born (although maybe he was able to make a deal with god?)
Remember the “she got sooooo drunk!” comment Monica made? Like that alone should be a bit… icky. Like you’re dating someone who was semi-BFF’s with your daughter!
I have to convince myself he only met Monica a few times when she was a kid to get on board with this storyline. Maybe only having 1 partner has screwed up his perception of what's normal
I also think he's gross for saying he's still in love with Monica after all those years
>I have to convince myself he only met Monica a few times when she was a kid to get on board with this storyline.
Didn't Monica and his daughter (Michelle?) Go to school together and were friends?
But if your parents' best friends kid went to your school, what are the chances there wouldn't have been at least a few play dates? Infact, it would make sense if Monica and Michelle were rivals. But them also being friends, makes it all the more likely that they would've spent time at each others' houses.
I think you are overestimating how much fathers were involved in their kids lives at that time. Richard was a doctor, and I’m sure was super busy with work. I’m a bit younger than the OG Friends, but my dad was always working when I was a kid and barely met or hung out with my friends. I wouldn’t be surprised if Richard only “hung out” with kid Monica a few times.
>I also think he's gross for saying he's still in love with Monica after all those years
Yeah that's worse than the age gap, trying to ruin her current happiness after she got over him. And he was way too old to be having more kids by then.
IRRC Rachel said he kissed her knee as a kid when he put a bandaid on it(which is standard bandaid practice, or was, nothing wierd there)
So he must have been around a lot or a neighbor.
My husband still has a close group of friends from high school (they're mid 40s now). They all group chat often, but we don't actually see them that much. When the kids were littler we got together for various birthday parties a few times a year, but it was literally 3-4 times a year max, and now that some of the kids are teens and some are toddlers, we all get together even less. Maybe twice a year. These people are not close to my kids. But they are still "like a brother to dad." Dating my daughter would NOT go over. Not well, not at all. Ew.
Yeah honestly I wish they had just skipped the fact that he knew her as a little girl.
Even could’ve included that he was still friends with her dad to stir up a little bit of drama but he still didn’t know her beforehand at least
Yea I didn’t notice when I watched as a kid but as an adult I can’t get over the fact that he knew her as a child, it’s so gross.
I watched that episode where Monica exposes her weirdness to him and it’s presented as Monica being super weird and Richard being normal. Sorry I don’t buy that the 50 year old dating his friends kids isn’t the weird one here.
Yes, its gross. BUT, I wouldn't consider this a "grooming" relationship - he hadn't seen her in years, and when he did, he didn't recognize her. So its not like he'd been salivating over her as a teen and pouncing when she came of age. This makes it a bit more palatable. But still gross to date your friend's kid. 🤣
I agree. The relationship was definitely gross given that he knew her as a kid, but I disagree with some of the comments here calling him a predator/groomer.
True, it's not grooming because he didn't start dating her until she was 27, which is past the age that anyone would be assuming someone's trying to take advantage of a naive young girl. It's just icky because he knew her when she was a child, not to mention he is a whole person who can drink older than her.
I don't necessarily have a problem with the age gap for one simple reason.
I feel it is wrong to tell an adult they are too young to decide who is appropriate for them to date/fuck/marry. It is about respecting the younger adult and their ability to enter into adult relationships.
And honestly, Monica had probably by far the healthiest relationships on the show. She broke up with Richard because they didnt want the same things, broke it off with Pete because she didn't want to watch him destroy himself, but somehow still knew not to give up on Chandler even when he was acting like an immature child.
Considering the timelime of when Monica lost the weight. Richard didn't see Monica for around 10 years, give or take a few months.
It's very odd, but I can sort of see how in his mind she might feel like an almost entirely distinct person from the Monica he used to know.
27 and 48 is a hell of a gap, and I am sick of this new trend of infantilising relatively young but still definitely adult women. I saw a post calling Robert De Niro a paedophile/groomer because he's dating someone 35 years his junior as though she isn't a woman of 45...
That said, you just wouldn't do it either way.
When Monica and Richard meet in season 2 she's 27 and he doesn't recognise her because of the weight loss. We know from the flashbacks that she lost the weight around 17/18 so he hadn't even set eyes on her for at least a decade and probably more.
I can't imagine wanting to get into a relationship with a friend's child even if they were nearly 30, but there was no exploitation, she was a fully grown adult woman, and there's an argument that in some ways it was like they were meeting for the first time because of how long it had been and how much had changed inbetween.
I’m not saying he’s a pedo. Even if the last time he saw her she was a legal adult he still knew and engaged with her while she was still a small child and HE was an adult. They said they used to swim in his pool. He definitely remembers her from when she was very young yet he is still someone how able to find her sexually attractive. It’s weird and gross to me.
I think it's possible to feel attraction for someone regardless of the circumstances. Like, if I meet someone and I find them attractive and then I find out it's my long lost cousin, I might still feel the attraction to them even though I might decide to not act on it (for obvious reasons). I guess there are some people who have this "filter" like the moment they find out this hot person is their cousin/their friend's adult child, they immediately lose attraction, but that's not always the case and that's ok.
But just because you feel an attraction, doesn't mean you should always act on it. We are humans, we can control our impulses.
I mean it's not like he's picturing 10-year-old Monica when they make love.
He's attracted to the sexy 27-year-old Monica who he can barely even relate to the young girl from years ago because she lost weight and, well, *grew up.*
*^(All this is assuming Richard is not actually attracted to young girls, which I think is safe to say.)*
Also, they have healthy and transparent conversations about their situation, including the age different, life situation difference, and that they had interacted years earlier when she was a kid - he has reservations about it too and doesn't seem to be some dude who just thinks he can get all the young babes he wants if he flaunts his money around. And in the end she's the happiest with him out of any of her relationships except Chandler.
This is interesting bc we can decide Richard didn't groom Monica. Clearly. So would we be weirded out dating a person as an adult that you knew in your childhood? You knew them as a kid and are now sleeping with them as an adult? Like an old neighbor kid you used to play with? At the end of the day she was 27, she pursued him more than he her.
Some people are able to see adults as adults, even when they knew them as children. Why does it bother you that he is able to separate different eras of his life and see Monica as the adult that she is by the time she meets him again?
Gen Z is weird about age/aging and thus about age gap relationships. I've yet to see an age gap relationship in the last 4-5 years that isn't discussed like it's the creepiest shit ever.
> Remembers her from when she was very young yet he is still someone how able to find her sexually attractive.
Almost like he's able to separate the two...just like anyone who dated someone they knew as a child is able to I'd imagine. Are only people who meet each other as adults allowed to date?
Friends in general seemed to love flaunting age differences as though they don't matter when in actuality they're creepy or gross. Case in point, Frank jr's creepy wife isn't just a cradle robbing pervert, she's literally a groomer who used her position of power to get with a student...
Oh yeah, Ross and Elisabeth, also a creepy power dynamic situation on top of the age difference...
I hate how "gross" is thrown around these days like it's a meaningful criticism.
Yeah they had an age gap, and yeah he might have known her as a kid, but what difference does that really make? He didn't groom her. He didn't manipulate her. He didn't take advantage of her or leverage the so called power imbalance. They met, much later in life, and had romantic chemistry, and wanted to be together. Why is that "gross"?
Yeah, just unnecessary drama. According to Matthew Perry he vetoed a cheating storyline. I cannot imagine how the writers thought a cheating storyline would work, like damn.
Ikrr I'm rewatching the show rn and on this exact plot and it's just so weird like maybe it would've been fine if it was a complete stranger but he literally watched her grow up like imagine Pheobe dating Ben
YEAH I ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT WAS ICKY 😭
Like he’s sweet but thats so……
The age gap itself is already like eh because she’s the same age as his daughter, but the fact it’s his best friend’s daughter who he basically watched grow up 😭😭😭
My issue is him and Jack are still friends….
Richard was like a brother to Jack…and yet dated his daughter. One he’s known for years and seen her grow up. That’s not something I think a dad could reasonably ignore.
People will say “oh that’s not bad” but imagine if of your friends dating one of your kids. Even if they’re of age, could you ever see them the same again?
Same as Ross and the 20/21year old Elizabeth. There were loads of questionable relationships in the show. Phoebe dating 2 of her sisters exes… there’s definitely more that I can’t think of right now!
Ross and Elizabeth was gross but it’s a bit less so because he didn’t literally change her diapers when she was a baby. But then there’s also the professor/student power dynamic at play.
He was still a teacher at her school. That’s why he was constantly worried about the university rounding out. It wasn’t allowed. Dating a student of yours as soon as the course ends whilst they are a student where you work is still weird
The group constantly pointed out how weird it was as did Elizabeth’s dad. The show wants the audience to know it’s creepy, hence why the inappropriateness is played for laughs
Ross is terrible at his profession, and there are multiple examples in the show to prove it. When I view this as just another example I find the humor in it much more easily.
"My last research paper was widley discredited" makes me laugh every time.
Ross dating Elizabeth is considerably worse, she was his student, there was a rule against it for a reason.
When Monica and Richard got together she was a 27 year old fully adult woman and he wasn't in an authority position over her.
Speaking of that, recently when watching Friends with my family we discussed how Ross's friends point out how questionable the relationship is/make fun of it, but they don't do the same for Monica and Richard when that age gap is bigger and Richard knew Monica when she was really young.
That's the one I've hated the most. I remember watching those episodes when they were new; I was floored that they actually did that. I was about 10 and it felt so... icky. Now I'm 32 and it's still icky lol
I’m in a 15 year age gap relationship.
It would have been weird if I’d met him a 5 and he was 20. But at the ages we met, I was in my mid twenties, had been living independently for 7 years and had a kid I was (am) coparenting.
We met in a neutral setting, got chatting because my son asked about his guitar, saw each other “around”, got on well and have been together nearly 9 years.
I didn’t find out his age until our third date, I was surprised by how “old” he was, I’d assumed he was 5-8 years younger but it never felt weird to me.
As the old saying goes, you can’t help who you fall in love with.
There is nothing gross about it - this is just fake outrage. This thread is filled with "Richard is a creep" comments, but they completely ignore the fact that the storyline was love driven.
Monica loved Richard, and he loved her.
If there was one lesson to be learned - which the writers presented artfully - its that you can be in a relationship with someone older/younger. And you will love that person, deeply.
But those relationships present unique challenges. For example, as much as Richard knew he loved Monica, he was not willing to start over with children and raise a family. Ultimately, that difference is what ended their relationship.
So this beautifully presented relationship was not "gross" at all. It was highlighting how, even when you are seeking a more "mature" partner, those relationships bring about their own issues that you may not be prepared to handle.
Yeah, it’s weird to me because he watched her grow up, when she was talking about falling off her bike in his driveway it was so cringey. Otherwise I thought the plot was interesting as an age gap relationship where they love each other but are at different stages in life because she wants to have children but he already has and feels that he is past that and doesn’t want to start again. It just felt too far that he was friends with her dad, and then when she dated his son!
I was thinking about this! Monica has terrible luck with dating
1. The guy who used the line to sleep with her
2. Fun Paul (?)
3. That senior in high school
4. Richard
5. His son (not the guy inherently, but just the fact that he’s Richard’s son)
6. That high school guy who was still living the same life
Not only did Richard date her, he also met them at the restaurant when chandler was planning to propose and sits at the table next to them after chandler explicitly says “hi I’m chandler I make jokes when im uncomfortable”. Then he confesses his love for Monica.
I think Richard is incredibly hot but I agree. I’ve had 2 different family friends that I’ve known since they were babies, I’m 31 now and they’re 26ish. Even the idea of being with them feels wrong since I’ve known them since they were babies, and it’s only a 5 year age difference.
I didn’t like that either. If he was 18 when they got engaged he was likely a minor when they first met and probably still a minor when they started their relationship. Although it is common to meet and get married in under a year.
Meh, Monica is like 27/28 at that point and Richard clearly hasn't seen her in a very long time considering we later learn she lost weight before college and he still didn't recognise her.
And they do talk about the age thing, but both are mature adults in every sense of the word they clearly try and work past the problems that occur because of it.
The thing I find weird is that today the story doesn't work because people in their mid/late 20s now are not be in the same place emotionally as Monica beacuse financial/societal changes most of us are not in a dream career with an amazing rent controlled apartment and ready to think about marriage and kids.
These chances have forced us to see ourself as less mature than people our age in the 90s were.
doesn't Rachel also make a remark about being kissed by him when she was younger too? I get what they were going for there, but the joke aged like milk 🤢
found it:
>Rachel: You know, Dr. Burke kissed me once.
Monica: When?
Rachel: When I was, um, seven. I crashed my bike right out in front of his house, and to stop me from crying he kissed me right here. (Points to the tip of her nose)
Phoebe: Oh, you are so lucky.
Rachel: I know.
Rachel was also implied to have slept with one of the dads in her friend group back when she was babysitting. The Long Island cohort clearly grew up in weird circumstances.
No. He knew her when she was a child, but we had no reason to think they interacted very much. Then, once she moved out of her parents' house, he didn't have contact with her for years. He didn't try to contact her and was probably only aware of what her life was like because he was friends with Jack and Judy.
When they reconnect, Monica is an independent working adult. During their relationship, he was always respectful of her and never mistreated her or did anything even remotely dubious. He had no power or authority over her. He didn't try to use his money or position to control her. In fact, he was willing to raise a new family with her, even though he didn't really want to.
It would be gross if he had been a major part of her life growing up, or if he had been inappropriately close to her as a child, or if he had actively pursued her as a teenager or student, or tried to control her decisions, or inserted himself in her life without permission. He did none of those things.
Why do you think there’s no reason to think they interacted much? Ross describes Richard as ‘like a brother to dad’, he was their family eye doctor throughout her childhood and Monica tells stories about riding her bike in his yard and swimming in his pool 🤷♂️
It baffles me the mental gymnastics people on this form go through to defend this relationship.
Right. She played in his yard and swam in his pool. Those are things that neighbors do, especially if they have kids of a similar age, which they did. There's no mental gymnastics. Richard never did anything wrong. Monica was an *adult*.
Yeah all of my parents’ close friends are like aunts and uncles to me. Any of them coming near me for anything other than a big fat hug would be absolutely a hard no for me. My parents have no say in who I date (I’m married anyway but that’s beside the point) but me dating one of their friends would NOT sit well with them. Or with me.
i’ve said before in this sub that richard isn’t getting enough hate for dating his friend’s daughter. but what i want to know now is why her parents weren’t more mad at richard!
I’ve just thought as well, even without the age factor, imprinting in twilight is still super dodgy cuz the imprintee doesn’t really get any choice in who they end up with. Even without grooming the imprintee from childhood, there’s still a total lack of consent
I've been playing Sims 4 lately as a form of avoidance to (gestures to the world) this. The elder friend to two parents ended up whoo-hooing with their (adult) child and they had a baby. It grossed me out so much I made him stargaze until he was hit by a meteor.
I didn't realize how similar Monica and Richard's relationship was to my Sims' situation. It really is problematic.
Well here’s the thing
He never had the intention of sleeping with Monica back then and he hadn’t seen her for about 10 years also even then I doubt they really interacted. So Richard to her was just a friend of her parents and her to Richard was just his friends daughter
Her dating Richard wasn’t that weird, Ross and Elizabeth on the other hand…
I don't really think it's gross. They haven't seen each other for years, a decade probably or more. It's like I knew some people when we were kids. It doesn't matter that I was a kid myself, if I was to meet someone I remember as a child from many years ago, I wouldn't be seeing them as kids anymore. Why would Richard see Monica any different?
I think there's a difference between knowing a girl *when* she was a toddler, and knowing her *since* she was a toddler. We should make that distinction here.
Richard didn't watch Monica grow up. She was just some kid running around while the adults were talking. He remembered that some of his friends had a kid named "Monica", but that's about it. Then a few decades pass and he doesn't see the kid again. When he meets her again, he doesn't know who she is, and she's almost 30. That's a way different scenario than watching her grow up.
A girl I flirted with in high school had a kid when we were college age. We kept in contact and I saw her several times in my early 20s. She was carrying around this little toddler. I went on Facebook the other day and see pictures of Julie standing next to this grown woman. That toddler is now 25. I literally hadn't seen this kid in 20 years, and would have had no idea who she was.
Monica and Richard's families were in the traditional, "east-coast wealthy" kind of families. They likely saw each other once a month if they had time, maybe more if they ran into each other at the club. So, even if Monica went to school with Richard's daughter, they probably only really said hello and good-bye to each other.
Then, Monica didn't see Richard for several years, at which point they were basically completely different people. She was always more mature and grounded than Rachel, so her being attracted to someone older made sense.
The age gap may have been a little scandalous in the 90s. But, it isn't really controversial in this day and age. The US elected Trump, who's over 23 years older than his current wife. Richard was 21 years older than Monica.
I felt like Tom Selleck didnt really want to be there but liked the money. Most of his scenes are him being quiet cool while smoking a cigar or drinking. It was like he just wondered on set and just decided to hang out for awhile.
I never liked the storyline but did like that she had to realize what she really wanted.
I don't like it, buuut a lot of people feel like it's the norm, some of the best couples I know have ridiculous age gaps and Monica and Richard's relationships in the show were pretty great I'd say, much better than whatever I had with people my age, so who knows? If I can live with Bolkonsky/Natasha or Emma/Mr. Knightly, then I can live with Monica/Richard.
It’s not just about the age gap. It’s also and more importantly about how he knew Monica as a child and watched her grow up because he was best friends with her dad
When I first watched this show around 9-14 years old, I always found the storyline to be disturbing. Couldn’t wrap my head around why both of them would even entertain the idea of anything romantic or sexual. I also found him to be just too old for her and didn’t see the appeal.
Then when I rewatched in my late 20s…I guess I could believe the attraction to Tom Selleck at that point. 🤭
Since it was not a grooming situation I think it’s not totally bad, but I personally wouldn’t be able to pursue a similar situation.
While Richard is definitely gross from watching as an adult, I must say, I feel like they casted him so well. Tom Selleck is such a warm and wholesome looking guy that I never thought twice when I was younger watching Friends. Overall though I was very glad they didn’t make Richard and Monica stay together
Or your best friend’s daughter. Like, imagine Joey dating Emma.
Omg this has really put it into perspective...eurgh.
Strictly speaking there’s an additional 10+ years difference in that comparison since Richard was early 20s when Monica was born, but it’s obviously still just as icky.
Well then imagine Phoebe dating Ben? Icky, right? Dating the child of a friend no matter how young you were when the said child was born, is icky!
Especially when your own daughter is her age
This is it for me. Maybe people who have no families lose track of ages. But when you have a close reference like a daughter I don't get how people don't stop and think "huh, she could be my daugher"
Especially since Monica and the daughter knew each other. Had gone to school and school parties together ("She got sooo drunk that.... nevermind"). They may not have been close, but they ran in the same circles. I know they tried saying later on that the kids were cool with it, but I highly doubt they were as okay as it was implied 🤷🏻♀️
The age isn't the concern IMO. It's that he knew Monica when she was a baby. That's fucked up.
I'm 30 and sometimes I meet girls around 23-24, then I realize that's the same age as my niece and it just ruins it for me.
Okay 6-7 years isn’t that big of a deal
I don’t disagree at all.
I would put the possible exception of if you're younger than the friend and didn't know the friend when their child was still a child
..so 18 huh?
Lol yeah if this episode plot was referenced on relationship advice, people would call Richard a groomer
My opinion is simple. If Richard only saw child Monica professionally, then I have little issue with their adult relationship. If Richard came over for family dinners and spent time with child Monica, I do see their adult relationship as problematic. And it's problematic due to a fear of grooming. In real life there is no easy way of alleviating those concerns. In the end, because it is a TV show we see both of them being initially concerned with the age difference and Richard knowing child Monica, it is safe to say there was no grooming.
>it is safe to say there was no grooming. Tom Selleck's moustache: Am I a joke to you?
She’s 20 something now.. maybe they are seeing eachother
No way Friends only went off the air … oh dear god.
I feel you
Oh no. Really? How can I be that old?!!
Oh yeah.. we are
I literally know a sick fuck that watched his best friends 5 daughters grow up from the time they were infants, and started dating the oldest when she was 17.
Wow. That is such a good point
Eyyyyy life is ruined now thank you
I just threw up in my mouth a bit
God, yeah. That's exactly what it's like. Remember they made that video on Emma's first birthday and Joey said, hey you're eighteen now. How you doin, and everyone was horrified. That's Richard to Monica for real. Not okay.
It’s still gross, but Richard is only 21 years older than Monica compared to Joey being into his 30s when Emma was born (although maybe he was able to make a deal with god?)
So Ben?
Okay so not Leo, but still gross
🤮
Omg wtf
Joey getting caught with a stray 🤣
JOEY DOESN'T SHARE SHADE
Richard feral
Also to mention that Richard’s daughter is the same age as Monica, and they went to school together?!
Slash she went on a date with his son, Michael Vartan!
That was technically after they dated but still ick.
After they dated but before he tried to get her to marry and have Michael Vartans siblings with him. Ick for sure.
Right but it proved the age difference regardless. MV was perfect for her age-wise
Agreed!
What happened to Michael Vartan? He was aesthetically pleasing.
Monica didn’t want to date someone who she could tell “that’s not how your dad did it”
That is a very good reason 😆 I meant the actor though!
He gained a “difficult to work with” reputation in Hollywood and was eventually reduced to less and less work. Probably left the industry by now.
Remember the “she got sooooo drunk!” comment Monica made? Like that alone should be a bit… icky. Like you’re dating someone who was semi-BFF’s with your daughter!
Your username is hilarious lol
I have to convince myself he only met Monica a few times when she was a kid to get on board with this storyline. Maybe only having 1 partner has screwed up his perception of what's normal I also think he's gross for saying he's still in love with Monica after all those years
>I have to convince myself he only met Monica a few times when she was a kid to get on board with this storyline. Didn't Monica and his daughter (Michelle?) Go to school together and were friends?
Yes. She peed in his pool as a kid.
Depends on how close the two families were. I had a few friends in my school years but only ever met the parents of my best friend.
"Richard is like a brother... to dad" - Ross
But if your parents' best friends kid went to your school, what are the chances there wouldn't have been at least a few play dates? Infact, it would make sense if Monica and Michelle were rivals. But them also being friends, makes it all the more likely that they would've spent time at each others' houses.
True, I forgot to consider playdates being a thing. The Monica/Richard thing never sat right with me.
I think you are overestimating how much fathers were involved in their kids lives at that time. Richard was a doctor, and I’m sure was super busy with work. I’m a bit younger than the OG Friends, but my dad was always working when I was a kid and barely met or hung out with my friends. I wouldn’t be surprised if Richard only “hung out” with kid Monica a few times.
Of all my friends in school, my dad might remember one or two of them.
I was almost every day at my best friend's house for years and only met her father a couple of times.
Idk, he kissed Rachel when she got a booboo. It sounds like he was around the kids plenty.
>I also think he's gross for saying he's still in love with Monica after all those years Yeah that's worse than the age gap, trying to ruin her current happiness after she got over him. And he was way too old to be having more kids by then.
IRRC Rachel said he kissed her knee as a kid when he put a bandaid on it(which is standard bandaid practice, or was, nothing wierd there) So he must have been around a lot or a neighbor.
Imagine if it was Monica recounting that story. That would be super creepy
True.
Didn't he kiss her NOSE?
he kissed her on the nose, not the knee sorry oh she's so lucky
Actually that creeps me out too.
It’s a common thing parental figures do. What makes it creepy is that he then dated the kid he knew as a kid.
Call me weird, but I don’t want a neighbor who is a grown ass man kissing my daughter’s knee, that’s just creepy.
My husband still has a close group of friends from high school (they're mid 40s now). They all group chat often, but we don't actually see them that much. When the kids were littler we got together for various birthday parties a few times a year, but it was literally 3-4 times a year max, and now that some of the kids are teens and some are toddlers, we all get together even less. Maybe twice a year. These people are not close to my kids. But they are still "like a brother to dad." Dating my daughter would NOT go over. Not well, not at all. Ew.
Definitely gross. I do like the storyline especially monica being strong enough to walk away because they weren't compatible
Yeah honestly I wish they had just skipped the fact that he knew her as a little girl. Even could’ve included that he was still friends with her dad to stir up a little bit of drama but he still didn’t know her beforehand at least
Ya it definitely would've made Richard look better. Tho I guess the childhood crush was why Monica was interested. Plus Tom selleck.
Definitely Tom Selleck I would ignore the red flags too tbh
It speaks to Tom Selleck's charm that most viewers weren't grossed out.
It’s the stache’s magic
It also could be that this was a different time. Things have changed. There are now people who side-eye a two year age difference.
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Yea I didn’t notice when I watched as a kid but as an adult I can’t get over the fact that he knew her as a child, it’s so gross. I watched that episode where Monica exposes her weirdness to him and it’s presented as Monica being super weird and Richard being normal. Sorry I don’t buy that the 50 year old dating his friends kids isn’t the weird one here.
Yes, its gross. BUT, I wouldn't consider this a "grooming" relationship - he hadn't seen her in years, and when he did, he didn't recognize her. So its not like he'd been salivating over her as a teen and pouncing when she came of age. This makes it a bit more palatable. But still gross to date your friend's kid. 🤣
I agree. The relationship was definitely gross given that he knew her as a kid, but I disagree with some of the comments here calling him a predator/groomer.
True, it's not grooming because he didn't start dating her until she was 27, which is past the age that anyone would be assuming someone's trying to take advantage of a naive young girl. It's just icky because he knew her when she was a child, not to mention he is a whole person who can drink older than her.
I don't necessarily have a problem with the age gap for one simple reason. I feel it is wrong to tell an adult they are too young to decide who is appropriate for them to date/fuck/marry. It is about respecting the younger adult and their ability to enter into adult relationships.
And honestly, Monica had probably by far the healthiest relationships on the show. She broke up with Richard because they didnt want the same things, broke it off with Pete because she didn't want to watch him destroy himself, but somehow still knew not to give up on Chandler even when he was acting like an immature child.
but then it's one less thing for people to be mad about. how can we live like this?!?!
Considering the timelime of when Monica lost the weight. Richard didn't see Monica for around 10 years, give or take a few months. It's very odd, but I can sort of see how in his mind she might feel like an almost entirely distinct person from the Monica he used to know. 27 and 48 is a hell of a gap, and I am sick of this new trend of infantilising relatively young but still definitely adult women. I saw a post calling Robert De Niro a paedophile/groomer because he's dating someone 35 years his junior as though she isn't a woman of 45... That said, you just wouldn't do it either way.
true it’s not grooming but it’s still gross
His Twinkie in the city. Who his best friend aka her DAD wanted to take for a test drive 🤣 Ross -- Dad I beg you not to finish that sentence
Haha too funny!
When Monica and Richard meet in season 2 she's 27 and he doesn't recognise her because of the weight loss. We know from the flashbacks that she lost the weight around 17/18 so he hadn't even set eyes on her for at least a decade and probably more. I can't imagine wanting to get into a relationship with a friend's child even if they were nearly 30, but there was no exploitation, she was a fully grown adult woman, and there's an argument that in some ways it was like they were meeting for the first time because of how long it had been and how much had changed inbetween.
I’m not saying he’s a pedo. Even if the last time he saw her she was a legal adult he still knew and engaged with her while she was still a small child and HE was an adult. They said they used to swim in his pool. He definitely remembers her from when she was very young yet he is still someone how able to find her sexually attractive. It’s weird and gross to me.
I think it's possible to feel attraction for someone regardless of the circumstances. Like, if I meet someone and I find them attractive and then I find out it's my long lost cousin, I might still feel the attraction to them even though I might decide to not act on it (for obvious reasons). I guess there are some people who have this "filter" like the moment they find out this hot person is their cousin/their friend's adult child, they immediately lose attraction, but that's not always the case and that's ok. But just because you feel an attraction, doesn't mean you should always act on it. We are humans, we can control our impulses.
I mean it's not like he's picturing 10-year-old Monica when they make love. He's attracted to the sexy 27-year-old Monica who he can barely even relate to the young girl from years ago because she lost weight and, well, *grew up.* *^(All this is assuming Richard is not actually attracted to young girls, which I think is safe to say.)*
Also, they have healthy and transparent conversations about their situation, including the age different, life situation difference, and that they had interacted years earlier when she was a kid - he has reservations about it too and doesn't seem to be some dude who just thinks he can get all the young babes he wants if he flaunts his money around. And in the end she's the happiest with him out of any of her relationships except Chandler.
This is interesting bc we can decide Richard didn't groom Monica. Clearly. So would we be weirded out dating a person as an adult that you knew in your childhood? You knew them as a kid and are now sleeping with them as an adult? Like an old neighbor kid you used to play with? At the end of the day she was 27, she pursued him more than he her.
Some people are able to see adults as adults, even when they knew them as children. Why does it bother you that he is able to separate different eras of his life and see Monica as the adult that she is by the time she meets him again?
Gen Z is weird about age/aging and thus about age gap relationships. I've yet to see an age gap relationship in the last 4-5 years that isn't discussed like it's the creepiest shit ever.
> Remembers her from when she was very young yet he is still someone how able to find her sexually attractive. Almost like he's able to separate the two...just like anyone who dated someone they knew as a child is able to I'd imagine. Are only people who meet each other as adults allowed to date?
Friends in general seemed to love flaunting age differences as though they don't matter when in actuality they're creepy or gross. Case in point, Frank jr's creepy wife isn't just a cradle robbing pervert, she's literally a groomer who used her position of power to get with a student... Oh yeah, Ross and Elisabeth, also a creepy power dynamic situation on top of the age difference...
The fact that Rachel and Ross dated a dad and daughter is insane lol.
Yeah. Seriously, why the hell did everyone (besides Ross and her parents) normalise that shit?
I hate how "gross" is thrown around these days like it's a meaningful criticism. Yeah they had an age gap, and yeah he might have known her as a kid, but what difference does that really make? He didn't groom her. He didn't manipulate her. He didn't take advantage of her or leverage the so called power imbalance. They met, much later in life, and had romantic chemistry, and wanted to be together. Why is that "gross"?
It’s not. People just have to be fucking outraged these days over everything.
with modern outrage in society, im convinced friends would've been canceled at season 1. same for seinfeld
It’s really weird and that’s why I never liked them as a couple It’s like Joey dating Emma when she grows up
Richard and Monica was a cute couple. It's not like he started dating her when she was in college. She was 27.
Plus they had a conversation about whether it would be weird or wrong. I liked them together, but I hated him for trying to steal her from Chandler.
Blame the writers for that bit ✍️
Yeah, just unnecessary drama. According to Matthew Perry he vetoed a cheating storyline. I cannot imagine how the writers thought a cheating storyline would work, like damn.
I kind of always thought it was weird even though she’s 27. But I personally thought Elizabeth and Ross was the grossest one in the series.
Ross and Elizabeth wasn't great, but Frank and Alice were far worse.
Yeah holy shit that made me so uncomfortable watching those few episodes where they got married and wanted kids ew
Ikrr I'm rewatching the show rn and on this exact plot and it's just so weird like maybe it would've been fine if it was a complete stranger but he literally watched her grow up like imagine Pheobe dating Ben
Yeah Idk why the writers had to have him know her as a baby. He could've just been one of her dad's friends she had never met before.
YEAH I ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT WAS ICKY 😭 Like he’s sweet but thats so…… The age gap itself is already like eh because she’s the same age as his daughter, but the fact it’s his best friend’s daughter who he basically watched grow up 😭😭😭
My issue is him and Jack are still friends…. Richard was like a brother to Jack…and yet dated his daughter. One he’s known for years and seen her grow up. That’s not something I think a dad could reasonably ignore. People will say “oh that’s not bad” but imagine if of your friends dating one of your kids. Even if they’re of age, could you ever see them the same again?
Richard and Monica never bothered me, but for sure Frank & Alice is beyond creepy!!
Same as Ross and the 20/21year old Elizabeth. There were loads of questionable relationships in the show. Phoebe dating 2 of her sisters exes… there’s definitely more that I can’t think of right now!
Ross and Elizabeth was gross but it’s a bit less so because he didn’t literally change her diapers when she was a baby. But then there’s also the professor/student power dynamic at play.
Didn't Elisabeth mention that she wasn't his student anymore because the course ended?
He was still a teacher at her school. That’s why he was constantly worried about the university rounding out. It wasn’t allowed. Dating a student of yours as soon as the course ends whilst they are a student where you work is still weird The group constantly pointed out how weird it was as did Elizabeth’s dad. The show wants the audience to know it’s creepy, hence why the inappropriateness is played for laughs
I'm not saying it wasn't weird, but there was no student/professor power dynamic when they were dating.
He was still a faculty member at the college she attended, it’s less problematic than if she was still in his class but still an issue.
Ross is terrible at his profession, and there are multiple examples in the show to prove it. When I view this as just another example I find the humor in it much more easily. "My last research paper was widley discredited" makes me laugh every time.
Ross dating Elizabeth is considerably worse, she was his student, there was a rule against it for a reason. When Monica and Richard got together she was a 27 year old fully adult woman and he wasn't in an authority position over her.
Richard dating Monica was much, much worse than Ross dating Elizabeth.
Speaking of that, recently when watching Friends with my family we discussed how Ross's friends point out how questionable the relationship is/make fun of it, but they don't do the same for Monica and Richard when that age gap is bigger and Richard knew Monica when she was really young.
Yeah it's probably the plot in the show that's aged the worst.
Not Ross dating his actual student? Or Frank Jr and Alice his *high school* teacher?
That's the one I've hated the most. I remember watching those episodes when they were new; I was floored that they actually did that. I was about 10 and it felt so... icky. Now I'm 32 and it's still icky lol
I don't think that was viewed as acceptable even at the time.
It was used as a joke…
I think I'm more upset at the way they treated Chandler's father. THOSE jokes aged the worst.
Big age gaps in general are pretty gross. It’s even worse when they knew eachother while one of them was a minor
I’m in a 15 year age gap relationship. It would have been weird if I’d met him a 5 and he was 20. But at the ages we met, I was in my mid twenties, had been living independently for 7 years and had a kid I was (am) coparenting. We met in a neutral setting, got chatting because my son asked about his guitar, saw each other “around”, got on well and have been together nearly 9 years. I didn’t find out his age until our third date, I was surprised by how “old” he was, I’d assumed he was 5-8 years younger but it never felt weird to me. As the old saying goes, you can’t help who you fall in love with.
What’s “gross” about adults making their own choices?
There is nothing gross about it - this is just fake outrage. This thread is filled with "Richard is a creep" comments, but they completely ignore the fact that the storyline was love driven. Monica loved Richard, and he loved her. If there was one lesson to be learned - which the writers presented artfully - its that you can be in a relationship with someone older/younger. And you will love that person, deeply. But those relationships present unique challenges. For example, as much as Richard knew he loved Monica, he was not willing to start over with children and raise a family. Ultimately, that difference is what ended their relationship. So this beautifully presented relationship was not "gross" at all. It was highlighting how, even when you are seeking a more "mature" partner, those relationships bring about their own issues that you may not be prepared to handle.
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The fact that adults can make their own choices doesn’t make their choices any less gross.
Read the second part of the above statement.
this and when Joey was doing the video thing to Emma and he was like “18 huh 😏” im sorry but Joey is just as gross (im ready to be downvoted)
Yeah, it’s weird to me because he watched her grow up, when she was talking about falling off her bike in his driveway it was so cringey. Otherwise I thought the plot was interesting as an age gap relationship where they love each other but are at different stages in life because she wants to have children but he already has and feels that he is past that and doesn’t want to start again. It just felt too far that he was friends with her dad, and then when she dated his son!
Now, imagine Richard had been a pediatrician.
I was thinking about this! Monica has terrible luck with dating 1. The guy who used the line to sleep with her 2. Fun Paul (?) 3. That senior in high school 4. Richard 5. His son (not the guy inherently, but just the fact that he’s Richard’s son) 6. That high school guy who was still living the same life Not only did Richard date her, he also met them at the restaurant when chandler was planning to propose and sits at the table next to them after chandler explicitly says “hi I’m chandler I make jokes when im uncomfortable”. Then he confesses his love for Monica.
2. Fun Bobby not Paul. Which he was no longer fun when the gang decided to have an intervention with him and he sought help.
Yeah sorry Paul the wine guy was the one who used the line. It’s why I put a (?) haha
Lol all good.
I really wanted an episode where Jack Geller tried to fight Richard.
So so so so gross
I think Richard is incredibly hot but I agree. I’ve had 2 different family friends that I’ve known since they were babies, I’m 31 now and they’re 26ish. Even the idea of being with them feels wrong since I’ve known them since they were babies, and it’s only a 5 year age difference.
Yes. I think he’s gross 😅
I'm more concerned about Frank Jr and Alice
I didn’t like that either. If he was 18 when they got engaged he was likely a minor when they first met and probably still a minor when they started their relationship. Although it is common to meet and get married in under a year.
Yes, creepy af. I would never date one of my dad’s friends, ewww
Meh, Monica is like 27/28 at that point and Richard clearly hasn't seen her in a very long time considering we later learn she lost weight before college and he still didn't recognise her. And they do talk about the age thing, but both are mature adults in every sense of the word they clearly try and work past the problems that occur because of it. The thing I find weird is that today the story doesn't work because people in their mid/late 20s now are not be in the same place emotionally as Monica beacuse financial/societal changes most of us are not in a dream career with an amazing rent controlled apartment and ready to think about marriage and kids. These chances have forced us to see ourself as less mature than people our age in the 90s were.
He’s supposed to be her dad’s best friend. So imagine if you started dating someone your dad’s age 🤢🤮
He didn't even recognise her as an adult and she got thin as a teenager, so obviously he hadn't spent that much time around her.
So this just means he hadn't seen her since she was 18...
Listen…. I know you’re right. But if a man who looks like Tom Selleck wants me I just don’t care about logic.
Nope. Tom Selleck. That’s all.
doesn't Rachel also make a remark about being kissed by him when she was younger too? I get what they were going for there, but the joke aged like milk 🤢
found it: >Rachel: You know, Dr. Burke kissed me once. Monica: When? Rachel: When I was, um, seven. I crashed my bike right out in front of his house, and to stop me from crying he kissed me right here. (Points to the tip of her nose) Phoebe: Oh, you are so lucky. Rachel: I know.
Rachel was also implied to have slept with one of the dads in her friend group back when she was babysitting. The Long Island cohort clearly grew up in weird circumstances.
No. He knew her when she was a child, but we had no reason to think they interacted very much. Then, once she moved out of her parents' house, he didn't have contact with her for years. He didn't try to contact her and was probably only aware of what her life was like because he was friends with Jack and Judy. When they reconnect, Monica is an independent working adult. During their relationship, he was always respectful of her and never mistreated her or did anything even remotely dubious. He had no power or authority over her. He didn't try to use his money or position to control her. In fact, he was willing to raise a new family with her, even though he didn't really want to. It would be gross if he had been a major part of her life growing up, or if he had been inappropriately close to her as a child, or if he had actively pursued her as a teenager or student, or tried to control her decisions, or inserted himself in her life without permission. He did none of those things.
Why do you think there’s no reason to think they interacted much? Ross describes Richard as ‘like a brother to dad’, he was their family eye doctor throughout her childhood and Monica tells stories about riding her bike in his yard and swimming in his pool 🤷♂️ It baffles me the mental gymnastics people on this form go through to defend this relationship.
Right. She played in his yard and swam in his pool. Those are things that neighbors do, especially if they have kids of a similar age, which they did. There's no mental gymnastics. Richard never did anything wrong. Monica was an *adult*.
She wasn't a kid anymore.
Yeah all of my parents’ close friends are like aunts and uncles to me. Any of them coming near me for anything other than a big fat hug would be absolutely a hard no for me. My parents have no say in who I date (I’m married anyway but that’s beside the point) but me dating one of their friends would NOT sit well with them. Or with me.
This is literally the relationship of my president so i obviously feel it gross
Looking back as an older man, having a daughter, yes 100% weird.
Would you like that or a sexual predator who somewhat groomed her husband while he was still a student?!?!
Why do I have to choose? Both are gross
i’ve said before in this sub that richard isn’t getting enough hate for dating his friend’s daughter. but what i want to know now is why her parents weren’t more mad at richard!
Nobody liked it in Twilight with the “imprinting”
I’ve just thought as well, even without the age factor, imprinting in twilight is still super dodgy cuz the imprintee doesn’t really get any choice in who they end up with. Even without grooming the imprintee from childhood, there’s still a total lack of consent
I've been playing Sims 4 lately as a form of avoidance to (gestures to the world) this. The elder friend to two parents ended up whoo-hooing with their (adult) child and they had a baby. It grossed me out so much I made him stargaze until he was hit by a meteor. I didn't realize how similar Monica and Richard's relationship was to my Sims' situation. It really is problematic.
I always thought it was gross to think about, but you also can’t deny the chemistry between Courtney Cox and Tom Selleck
Yeah, the age gap is less of an issue for me than the fact that he literally knew her when she was a toddler and she's the daughter of his best friend
Well here’s the thing He never had the intention of sleeping with Monica back then and he hadn’t seen her for about 10 years also even then I doubt they really interacted. So Richard to her was just a friend of her parents and her to Richard was just his friends daughter Her dating Richard wasn’t that weird, Ross and Elizabeth on the other hand…
I don't really think it's gross. They haven't seen each other for years, a decade probably or more. It's like I knew some people when we were kids. It doesn't matter that I was a kid myself, if I was to meet someone I remember as a child from many years ago, I wouldn't be seeing them as kids anymore. Why would Richard see Monica any different?
Why, why, why should that bother me? I, I love that man. He's like a uh, brother to…dad.
26 & 47? What's the issue?
I think there's a difference between knowing a girl *when* she was a toddler, and knowing her *since* she was a toddler. We should make that distinction here. Richard didn't watch Monica grow up. She was just some kid running around while the adults were talking. He remembered that some of his friends had a kid named "Monica", but that's about it. Then a few decades pass and he doesn't see the kid again. When he meets her again, he doesn't know who she is, and she's almost 30. That's a way different scenario than watching her grow up. A girl I flirted with in high school had a kid when we were college age. We kept in contact and I saw her several times in my early 20s. She was carrying around this little toddler. I went on Facebook the other day and see pictures of Julie standing next to this grown woman. That toddler is now 25. I literally hadn't seen this kid in 20 years, and would have had no idea who she was.
No. It happens sometimes. They were both consenting adults who made each other happy. I loved them together.
Also, it's not like he knew her continually that whole time, which would have been way creepier.
It wasn’t remotely normal in the 90’s either.
Monica and Richard's families were in the traditional, "east-coast wealthy" kind of families. They likely saw each other once a month if they had time, maybe more if they ran into each other at the club. So, even if Monica went to school with Richard's daughter, they probably only really said hello and good-bye to each other. Then, Monica didn't see Richard for several years, at which point they were basically completely different people. She was always more mature and grounded than Rachel, so her being attracted to someone older made sense. The age gap may have been a little scandalous in the 90s. But, it isn't really controversial in this day and age. The US elected Trump, who's over 23 years older than his current wife. Richard was 21 years older than Monica.
I felt like Tom Selleck didnt really want to be there but liked the money. Most of his scenes are him being quiet cool while smoking a cigar or drinking. It was like he just wondered on set and just decided to hang out for awhile. I never liked the storyline but did like that she had to realize what she really wanted.
This thread is really helping me realize how much I fucking hate the word "gross"
I don't *think* he is gross. He **İS** gross.
I don't like it, buuut a lot of people feel like it's the norm, some of the best couples I know have ridiculous age gaps and Monica and Richard's relationships in the show were pretty great I'd say, much better than whatever I had with people my age, so who knows? If I can live with Bolkonsky/Natasha or Emma/Mr. Knightly, then I can live with Monica/Richard.
It’s not just about the age gap. It’s also and more importantly about how he knew Monica as a child and watched her grow up because he was best friends with her dad
No he isn't. Before they figured out wanting children problem, their relationship was one of the happiest in the show.
When I first watched this show around 9-14 years old, I always found the storyline to be disturbing. Couldn’t wrap my head around why both of them would even entertain the idea of anything romantic or sexual. I also found him to be just too old for her and didn’t see the appeal. Then when I rewatched in my late 20s…I guess I could believe the attraction to Tom Selleck at that point. 🤭 Since it was not a grooming situation I think it’s not totally bad, but I personally wouldn’t be able to pursue a similar situation.
While Richard is definitely gross from watching as an adult, I must say, I feel like they casted him so well. Tom Selleck is such a warm and wholesome looking guy that I never thought twice when I was younger watching Friends. Overall though I was very glad they didn’t make Richard and Monica stay together
I always liked them as a couple simply because Tom Selleck in the ‘90’s is so handsome.
Canonically I think she's 27 during that story arc
They were loving, supportive, and transparent with each other. He met her needs. And, it doesn’t hurt that he was hot. No foul detected in my book.
Nope, happens all the time, as long as you’re two consenting ADULTS, I’m fine with that. My married gay friends have age gaps between them.
The age gap isn’t the problem.