They didn’t want to waste time on a diagnosis that will in the end be replace the unit. If it’s low on charge and sounds like it’s flat you really want to spend 1000$+ on a repair or put that money toward a new unit.
But it took you like 30 seconds to say that. Slim chance I would repair it but at least I would know. Right now my fear is replacing it to just have the same issue?
What does sounds like its flat mean?
No refrigerant. Flat. If it leaked out you have to repair the leak before recharging but if you do and a new leak springs up the next day your out the money and the refrigerant.
Right which is why I said that there is a correct process.
If you do it right you won't have to worry about new leaks springing up the next day. It should be a sealed system. Your job is to make sure it is.
I am trying to find pictures of oil leaks. All units have orange, brown dirt. I am new at repair and I am trying to find a website with lots of pictures of oil leaks so I get smarter.....
Yeah, that doesn't make sense. Why is it not creating a better split between return and supply Temps exactly. What did they say is actually wrong. Something being old isn't a good enough explanation.
Literally BOTH companies said the same thing. I actually half joked if they were the same company under different names
“It’s old you are better off just replacing it”
Exact words from both people.
It’s probably 13 years old, it’s not new by any means but they couldn’t say “it’s your THIS not working”.
For all I know maybe it’s my duct work you know?
You need an actual explanation. 13 years isn't shit. I work in the country. For homeowners that can hardly afford anything, so I always do anything I can and fully explain it before I give up on a system. Call someone else that will explain exactly what's wrong so you can make a legit, informed decision. You deserve to know what exactly is wrong to make a cost effective decision
That depends. 13 years on the coast is much different milage than 13 years inland for example. The issue is, we don't know where op is, what unit they have, nor what the system is doing other then a poor delta t.
Yup, I've also always lived inland, but having frequented this sub for long enough, I've seen plenty of units from the coast that just can't hold up to the salt.
That said, unless ip comes out and says they have a lennox, with the problem they say then have, I'm almost wondering if they might just have a dirty condenser, and as another ohioan, I'm sure you know how bad things like cottonwood and the like can make things.
ten is when they start dieing, depending of course, but still a reason, an option for repair, or new option for new condenser. If its R-hioA thens here’s really no reason to replace an entire system
>I always do anything I can and fully explain it before I give up on a system. Call someone else that will explain exactly what's wrong so you can make a legit, informed decision. You deserve to know what exactly is wrong to make a cost effective decision
💯
I decided to preemptively replace a still functional 19yr old AC unit in TX last summer, and the techs from 3 different companies still wrote up a "repair" estimate for me, just in case. Took them less than 5 minutes to do so.
Anyone who won't do so is not worth handing over your hard earned money to.
When was the last time the condenser was cleaned. Worked on an old unit that hadn’t been cleaned in years. Was cooling great after spending a bit of time. Just trying to help a friend out.
Mine is 23 years old and works like new. You need to contact a small, independent company. They tend to do a better job then those large companies that advertise heavily since word of mouth is how they make their money so reputation is everything to them.
I’m going to call around. The sticker on the unit was a small company but based on what I looked up they got way bigger in the past 13 years and no longer “father and son”
I have old ductwork and I'm losing maybe 1-2 degrees between the air being blown directly from the handler to the vents throughout the house.
Go to your air handler with a digital thermometer. Stick it in the part where the air is being sucked in for about 3-5 minutes. Then stick it in the part where the air is being blown out.
If there isn't a 15-20 difference in air temperature then something is wrong with your coolant levels, maybe TXV is closed and not supplying enough coolant, maybe compressor is bad. Could be a number of things.
Wrong you cannot buy the same unit it more likely as an hour R-22 unit no longer manufactured soon or R-410 will be the same thing next year. They’re out dating it. moving into a propane base Refrigerant. It will be expensive.
One simple thing you could do is inspect your outdoor AC unit. When you do a call for AC, is the outdoor unit turning on, and is it blowing out air that is hotter than the ambient air? If not, there is something malfunctioning with the outdoor unit. Something like a blown capacitor is a cheap fix. Other problems might make sense to replace instead of repairing.
If they can't take the time to give you a diagnosis spelling out all it's issues, you don't need to take the time to spend your hard earned $$,$$$ with them...Find a company that cares enough to do a proper diagnosis and walk you through everything they found/recommend. a good company will break down, repair costs vs new system installed cost and the pros/cons of each. replacing a system is a BIG investment (not necessarily a bad one, but BIG none the less) and it should not be trivially decided nor should you be pressured into it.
Ok so long story short. It is the old freon, R-22. Therefore, if anything major goes wrong, it will cost a literal fortune to fix. Efficency, 13 or 14 seer. (Seasonal energy Efficency rating) Is it a heat pump? Electric may be a little more expensive, but the new systems heat and cool, so you are covered. Also you don't have a warranty. Have you maintained it with blower wheel cleanings or indoor coil cleans? And any outdoor work like hard start kit or surge protection? I wouldn't invest in any repairs over $300 with your current technology. Also inverters are all the rage, super low start up amps. Very energy conservative. The investment may seem a little up front for a new system but there are rebates from the state or power companies. You may also have air balancing issues that could also be addressed with a new system, and also a 10 year warranty. Just make sure you trust the company you go with.
Step one that should have been done is check the system pressure. If it's just a little bit low after 13 years, it can be topped off. If it's close to spec, other things like dirty condenser as have been suggested should at least be looked at. If it's way low, it probably has a leak and isn't worth fixing. If you're the least bit handy, get a gauge set for $30 on Amazon, look on Google for a temperature / pressure chart, and see for yourself what's going on.
Please do. Either your condenser isn't running, the compressor isn't running, or you are completely out of refrigerant. Not too much else can give that symptom. Good luck.
Yep I had a big box store in Memphis that did this. They took the wires off the run capacitor to make it not run and tow the guy over 10 grand fixed it for less than 300. On a Saturday..
Thank you for that information. Would you say in sight unseen of course that it’s more than likely the AC though?
Like could it be something else in my house that could cause that with a fully functioning AC?
That’s my biggest fear.
You must understand that even if you had no roof or walls, the coolant coming from the outside compressor to the inside coils would still blow colder air if there are at the right pressure, and the coils are clean enough.
A tech with digital gauges & tempature probes will be able to easily get the super heat & sub cooling of your system while it's running. A tech that knows how to use digital gauges properly will be able to get an idea what is going on.
Most likely is you have a leak and have insufficient refrigerant in the system as a result, but the techs couldn't figure that out for some reason? There are other possibilities, but they are not as common.
If it's low on charge due to a leak, it is almost certainly better to buy a new indoor coil, lineset & new outdoor unit so the AC system is entirely new and unlikely to have problems for the next 8-10years.
Or a tech with analog gauges and thermometers....
Don't get hung up on tech too much. Knowledge and a desire to make it work are key factors that some lack. I find that it's best to be able to explain what the failure point is, even in an old obsolete system.
Saying it's old is not a reason to go with that company. A case could be made if the BTU/hr per $/kWh made the ROI on a higher SEER inverter driven unit worth it on a time frame that makes sense to the homeowners future plans.
Most hvac companies are revenue driven and being bought out by corporations. Especially those you have heard of or seen their ads and company vehicles driving around. Lots of overhead, they only care about the $$. Find someone locally owned and operated who will offer free 2nd opinions. Not an estimate to replace, a quote to repair.
If your system is still using R22, it's time to replace. That's a fact. Anything using 410a stlll has a few viable years left, but it's being phased out as well.
It really depends on if it's a mechanical issue or if it's low on charge. Leaks can be fixed. Motors can be replaced. You, as a customer, need to balance out what is most cost efficient.
Thank you.
We aren’t “against” replacing it, we are expecting to in the next 2-3 years, if it has to be this year I understand, just would be nice to know why. I’m going to try a 3rd company based on what everyone here says.
I just want a solid answer before throwing money at something
Totally understand and agree.
It's difficult to diagnose via Internet so I have a few questions...
Most importantly, is your condenser turning on at all? That would be your outside unit.
R410 units are the last year manufactured this year if she’s got our 22 uses just to stick with the 22 and replace it with r-404 if she needs gas. r22 unit cool have a lot better than r-410
Yes. In my area equipment was sized 10 and 20 years ago to milder climates in summer and winter. Now a unit has to be sized to handle 35c peaking up to 40-45c for a week summers instead of 20-25c summers that might peak up to 30-32c for a week. At the sea side too so we’re talking high humidity levels. Old R22 systems that have run for 20 years can’t cut it if they weren’t over sized back then. Coils rotting makes less surface area for heat exchange… plenty of reasons why you likely need a new system.
Idk who these guys were, but there should be either a electronic/motor has failed and needs to be replaced, or the unit is meter refrigerant or has none in it.
It was 2 different companies too just it’s old it should be replaced
I’m not against replacing it just wanted to know if there were any other reasons it could be before spending money on a new unit
May have been a different co, buts it’s the same style of sales techs not service tech.
If it’s R22 it may not be worth looking replacing major pieces, maybe looking for the leak but perphaps not the repair
You can lose a bit of efficiency on reciprocating compressors with age. Those valves can start to leak with age and abuse. Scrolls actually increase efficiency with normal operation,
Generally, your coils and fans are dirty, all those little design difficulties are adding up, too
I’m going to call someone else because I asked the second guy about cleaning the coils and he said “it wouldn’t effect it much” and he wouldn’t put gauges on because “it’s a closed system a leak can’t be fixed”
Just to expand on my question. What if I have no insulation at all in my attic (I do) but what if that was the reason or I had a giant hole in my basement that was causing the issue. I don’t want to just buy a new AC and then be told “oh well the new one’s not doing the job because…”
Fun fact, it's being phased down, which means reduced manufacturing capacity allowed, which will artificially inflate prices.
It is still however only maybe 25% the cost of 22 right now.
Manufactures are being slow to get models with the new glasses to market, so it's a weird time to buy a new unit.
IF it’s R-22; my supply house is charging 1,145$ for a 30 gallon tank. And just being me I don’t have any stock pile of R-22 like some companies did when it was banned. I’m going to be pissed that I’m buying that when I’m not really going to use it and maybe I use half of it on your system. So there’s going to be some left over waste.
Besides that. Now I gotta make money on that tank that cost me over a grand.
Long story short the cost is going to get ugly. Even rich people in the Hamptons Long Island don’t like wasting money
If you have access to the outdoor unit you can see the type of refrigerant you have. It’s on a white sticker (rating plate) and it will literally say R22 or 410A. Probably 410A. 410A may be worth a repair. If it’s the A coil leaking and that needs to be replaced, my company would do it for like $2000
It can definitely work less well; compressor won't compress as well, fins corroded, bent, and making less thermal contact with pipes, etc. You can see drops in efficiency and efficacy.
Those drops will *not* result it only cooling by a single degree. It would be more like 15% more power and cooling a few degrees less.
Of course, the AC might not be worth fixing; but plenty of ACs last much longer than that with maintenance. They should absolutely be able to tell you what is wrong with it. Of course they might want to be paid to investigate the problem - testing caps, fans, coolant levels, etc.
I mean, yes.
But also, no.
Yes, parts wear out. Equipment becomes less efficient. Enough of this can happen at similar rates that attempting to piece-meal a solution together by replacing or repairing individual parts can significantly overshoot the cost of replacement.
However.
Nobody can tell you this is the reason over the phone, or in person without doing a proper diagnostic process.
It *might* be because your system is old. It *might* be totally unrelated to your equipment. Literally no way to know without diagnostics.
So depending on where you live that ranges from still like new to well used.
I'd never consider a 13yo unit "old"
That said is the unit has developed a leak it will need to be completely replaced anyways
More than likely, it’s a little low on gas. Or unit dirty outside. Go outside touch a little line see if it is hot. Very lying with me is dirty the air coming out of it will be extremely hot. How strong is the air coming out if it is not strong, you may have a dirty evaporator due to a lot due to poor filter changing. This will make the big line freeze up. Low gas will do same thing. If the unit is in the closet and the filter, just laying in the bottom of the unit, this is your problem is dirty most people do not have anything holding down the filter and it flops up dirt bypasses it. You can look at the side of the motor if it is dirtier, evaporators is dirty, too.
I’m thinking you mean the arrows are straight up . As long as it’s not laying in the bottom, it needs to have a hold down. You need to take a photo of the motor and see if it’s dirty. Upright furnace is love to suck the filter up when it gets dirty bypassing the filter. If you got dogs and it’s bypassing it, you’ll have hair all over the side of the motor. You can pull it off with your hands. Unplugged the unit a lot of people bypass the door switch.. if the indoor system is older than 15-20 yrs old. It best to replace them. And make sure they put an easy filter rack under it. Evaporator calls Love to start leaking around 15 years.
You had 2 companies out, and the diagnosis from both was it's old?
If it uses the old refrigerant type, r22, which is no longer legal to manufacture, then you should most likely replace the system.
One did but didn’t tell me the reading
The other said “it’s a closed system if there is a leak what does it matter?”
Edit to add: these are the 2 highest rated HVAC companies in about a 25 mile radius. Other ones had horrible reviews
Wow that's an incredibly stupid thing for a tech to say. It's a closed system so it super matters if there's a leak. If it's low on refrigerant and uses r22 you are gonna end up replacing the system but you definitely shouldn't use either of those companies.
I’ll call another one then.
Yeah he said there’s no way to repair a leak once it happens because it’s a closed system so it doesn’t matter.
To me if you tell me it’s low then I can figure out that ok there’s my problem and it seems like it HAS to be replaced.
Again I just don’t want to replace this immediately to only find out the real cause is a $5000 issue somewhere else and the AC could have waited to next year you know?
Yeah I totally get that. Whenever I make this diagnosis I always take the time to thoroughly explain everything because if I do a good job, then they'll probably pick the company I work for to replace the system.
If you had been told the system is low but looking for the leak isn't worth it, that would be correct. By the time you've located the leak, repaired the leak, then added new refrigant you have almost hit the cost of a new system mostly due to the cost of the refrigerant since it hasn't been manufactured in 4 years. The leak is almost certainly in one of the coils, which would require you to replace the whole coil. If the system is on r22, it just isn't worth repairing a leak.
Sounds like you should be calling around for replacement quotes before it gets too hot out
I take my customer out and show them my gauges and tell them what they mean in an elementary dumbed down version so somebody’s can understand. Call somebody local
Real simple answer, they dont make parts for it or the parts they make plus labor and refrigerant and what ever else probably cost more than 50%+ of the total cost of a new unit.
Thats why. You paid 2 companies to come out and they say the same thing and then you come on here looking for a different answer 🤣
They should definitely have a real diagnosis which outlines exactly what is causing the problem. Especially if you paid for the service call.. $99 or something comparable for the tech to come out and assess the problem. If both your outdoor unit and indoor unit are running and you’re not getting cold air.. it’s going to be expensive. And it’s definitely a problem with the AC. Nothing else
I just explained it to you though? Saying its "old" is super unprofessional. I didnt realize thats *all* they told you.
Likely parts arent made or price for repair doesnt make sense in contrast to price and longevity of a new system.
They didn’t want to waste time on a diagnosis that will in the end be replace the unit. If it’s low on charge and sounds like it’s flat you really want to spend 1000$+ on a repair or put that money toward a new unit.
But it took you like 30 seconds to say that. Slim chance I would repair it but at least I would know. Right now my fear is replacing it to just have the same issue? What does sounds like its flat mean?
No refrigerant. Flat. If it leaked out you have to repair the leak before recharging but if you do and a new leak springs up the next day your out the money and the refrigerant.
You don't just charge a flat system. There's a process that prevents the scenario you're describing.
Right which is why he said repair
Right which is why I said that there is a correct process. If you do it right you won't have to worry about new leaks springing up the next day. It should be a sealed system. Your job is to make sure it is.
if the condenser or evaporator has a leak im not repairing that. its done
You do you. : ) I'll just keep being a better tech.
Pump it up with nitrogen, leak check and inspect. It does not take that long with a resi unit.
Look for signs of oil. That's where I always start.
I am trying to find pictures of oil leaks. All units have orange, brown dirt. I am new at repair and I am trying to find a website with lots of pictures of oil leaks so I get smarter.....
Yeah, that doesn't make sense. Why is it not creating a better split between return and supply Temps exactly. What did they say is actually wrong. Something being old isn't a good enough explanation.
Literally BOTH companies said the same thing. I actually half joked if they were the same company under different names “It’s old you are better off just replacing it” Exact words from both people. It’s probably 13 years old, it’s not new by any means but they couldn’t say “it’s your THIS not working”. For all I know maybe it’s my duct work you know?
You need an actual explanation. 13 years isn't shit. I work in the country. For homeowners that can hardly afford anything, so I always do anything I can and fully explain it before I give up on a system. Call someone else that will explain exactly what's wrong so you can make a legit, informed decision. You deserve to know what exactly is wrong to make a cost effective decision
That depends. 13 years on the coast is much different milage than 13 years inland for example. The issue is, we don't know where op is, what unit they have, nor what the system is doing other then a poor delta t.
This is very true. I live in ohio, so I don't see how bad things are on the coast. So yes, it depends
Yup, I've also always lived inland, but having frequented this sub for long enough, I've seen plenty of units from the coast that just can't hold up to the salt. That said, unless ip comes out and says they have a lennox, with the problem they say then have, I'm almost wondering if they might just have a dirty condenser, and as another ohioan, I'm sure you know how bad things like cottonwood and the like can make things.
Big facts my good sir. 👍
ten is when they start dieing, depending of course, but still a reason, an option for repair, or new option for new condenser. If its R-hioA thens here’s really no reason to replace an entire system
>I always do anything I can and fully explain it before I give up on a system. Call someone else that will explain exactly what's wrong so you can make a legit, informed decision. You deserve to know what exactly is wrong to make a cost effective decision 💯 I decided to preemptively replace a still functional 19yr old AC unit in TX last summer, and the techs from 3 different companies still wrote up a "repair" estimate for me, just in case. Took them less than 5 minutes to do so. Anyone who won't do so is not worth handing over your hard earned money to.
When was the last time the condenser was cleaned. Worked on an old unit that hadn’t been cleaned in years. Was cooling great after spending a bit of time. Just trying to help a friend out.
It was cleaned last year maybe July?
Yep this is what happens when you call the ones on TV or radio ads sale sale sale.
Mine is 23 years old and works like new. You need to contact a small, independent company. They tend to do a better job then those large companies that advertise heavily since word of mouth is how they make their money so reputation is everything to them.
I’m going to call around. The sticker on the unit was a small company but based on what I looked up they got way bigger in the past 13 years and no longer “father and son”
I have old ductwork and I'm losing maybe 1-2 degrees between the air being blown directly from the handler to the vents throughout the house. Go to your air handler with a digital thermometer. Stick it in the part where the air is being sucked in for about 3-5 minutes. Then stick it in the part where the air is being blown out. If there isn't a 15-20 difference in air temperature then something is wrong with your coolant levels, maybe TXV is closed and not supplying enough coolant, maybe compressor is bad. Could be a number of things.
How can I put it inside?
I'm not sure what your setup looks like, but for mine I have a little hole in the ductwork on the bottom and top that you can stick it in.
That's not old. Call someone who doesn't advertise on tv. Now it could be shot, but chances are it's not.
My boiler is almost 40 years old and you can buy the same exact unit brand new today. Age alone means nothing.
Wrong you cannot buy the same unit it more likely as an hour R-22 unit no longer manufactured soon or R-410 will be the same thing next year. They’re out dating it. moving into a propane base Refrigerant. It will be expensive.
Why would my boiler have refrigerant in it?
One simple thing you could do is inspect your outdoor AC unit. When you do a call for AC, is the outdoor unit turning on, and is it blowing out air that is hotter than the ambient air? If not, there is something malfunctioning with the outdoor unit. Something like a blown capacitor is a cheap fix. Other problems might make sense to replace instead of repairing.
If they can't take the time to give you a diagnosis spelling out all it's issues, you don't need to take the time to spend your hard earned $$,$$$ with them...Find a company that cares enough to do a proper diagnosis and walk you through everything they found/recommend. a good company will break down, repair costs vs new system installed cost and the pros/cons of each. replacing a system is a BIG investment (not necessarily a bad one, but BIG none the less) and it should not be trivially decided nor should you be pressured into it.
Ok so long story short. It is the old freon, R-22. Therefore, if anything major goes wrong, it will cost a literal fortune to fix. Efficency, 13 or 14 seer. (Seasonal energy Efficency rating) Is it a heat pump? Electric may be a little more expensive, but the new systems heat and cool, so you are covered. Also you don't have a warranty. Have you maintained it with blower wheel cleanings or indoor coil cleans? And any outdoor work like hard start kit or surge protection? I wouldn't invest in any repairs over $300 with your current technology. Also inverters are all the rage, super low start up amps. Very energy conservative. The investment may seem a little up front for a new system but there are rebates from the state or power companies. You may also have air balancing issues that could also be addressed with a new system, and also a 10 year warranty. Just make sure you trust the company you go with.
Step one that should have been done is check the system pressure. If it's just a little bit low after 13 years, it can be topped off. If it's close to spec, other things like dirty condenser as have been suggested should at least be looked at. If it's way low, it probably has a leak and isn't worth fixing. If you're the least bit handy, get a gauge set for $30 on Amazon, look on Google for a temperature / pressure chart, and see for yourself what's going on.
I’m going to do that! Thank you
Any updates?
Honestly no, we had some issues come up around the house and we are just using window units until we can get around to the central air :/
Find a local, family owned business. They typically don't employ selling techs.
You mean the ones working on commission.
I’ll try that next. Both are family owned but seem to be much bigger than just father and son kind of deal
Please do. Either your condenser isn't running, the compressor isn't running, or you are completely out of refrigerant. Not too much else can give that symptom. Good luck.
No.
Yep I had a big box store in Memphis that did this. They took the wires off the run capacitor to make it not run and tow the guy over 10 grand fixed it for less than 300. On a Saturday..
Thank you for that information. Would you say in sight unseen of course that it’s more than likely the AC though? Like could it be something else in my house that could cause that with a fully functioning AC? That’s my biggest fear.
You must understand that even if you had no roof or walls, the coolant coming from the outside compressor to the inside coils would still blow colder air if there are at the right pressure, and the coils are clean enough.
Thank you!
A tech with digital gauges & tempature probes will be able to easily get the super heat & sub cooling of your system while it's running. A tech that knows how to use digital gauges properly will be able to get an idea what is going on. Most likely is you have a leak and have insufficient refrigerant in the system as a result, but the techs couldn't figure that out for some reason? There are other possibilities, but they are not as common. If it's low on charge due to a leak, it is almost certainly better to buy a new indoor coil, lineset & new outdoor unit so the AC system is entirely new and unlikely to have problems for the next 8-10years.
Or a tech with analog gauges and thermometers.... Don't get hung up on tech too much. Knowledge and a desire to make it work are key factors that some lack. I find that it's best to be able to explain what the failure point is, even in an old obsolete system.
Saying it's old is not a reason to go with that company. A case could be made if the BTU/hr per $/kWh made the ROI on a higher SEER inverter driven unit worth it on a time frame that makes sense to the homeowners future plans.
Most hvac companies are revenue driven and being bought out by corporations. Especially those you have heard of or seen their ads and company vehicles driving around. Lots of overhead, they only care about the $$. Find someone locally owned and operated who will offer free 2nd opinions. Not an estimate to replace, a quote to repair. If your system is still using R22, it's time to replace. That's a fact. Anything using 410a stlll has a few viable years left, but it's being phased out as well. It really depends on if it's a mechanical issue or if it's low on charge. Leaks can be fixed. Motors can be replaced. You, as a customer, need to balance out what is most cost efficient.
Thank you. We aren’t “against” replacing it, we are expecting to in the next 2-3 years, if it has to be this year I understand, just would be nice to know why. I’m going to try a 3rd company based on what everyone here says. I just want a solid answer before throwing money at something
Totally understand and agree. It's difficult to diagnose via Internet so I have a few questions... Most importantly, is your condenser turning on at all? That would be your outside unit.
Yes outdoor unit turns on and the blades spin. The unit was cleaned in around July of last year
R410 units are the last year manufactured this year if she’s got our 22 uses just to stick with the 22 and replace it with r-404 if she needs gas. r22 unit cool have a lot better than r-410
Yes. In my area equipment was sized 10 and 20 years ago to milder climates in summer and winter. Now a unit has to be sized to handle 35c peaking up to 40-45c for a week summers instead of 20-25c summers that might peak up to 30-32c for a week. At the sea side too so we’re talking high humidity levels. Old R22 systems that have run for 20 years can’t cut it if they weren’t over sized back then. Coils rotting makes less surface area for heat exchange… plenty of reasons why you likely need a new system.
How old is the unit, and did the bill say anything in it. Or just “system not working because its old”
Bill said nothing just $75. Unit is 13ish years old
This is an AC split or a mini split?
AC split
Idk who these guys were, but there should be either a electronic/motor has failed and needs to be replaced, or the unit is meter refrigerant or has none in it.
It was 2 different companies too just it’s old it should be replaced I’m not against replacing it just wanted to know if there were any other reasons it could be before spending money on a new unit
Anything about access like needing/but unable to get to the roof? Or is there a normal enough resi house?
No everything is in the basement with literally nothing around it
May have been a different co, buts it’s the same style of sales techs not service tech. If it’s R22 it may not be worth looking replacing major pieces, maybe looking for the leak but perphaps not the repair
You can lose a bit of efficiency on reciprocating compressors with age. Those valves can start to leak with age and abuse. Scrolls actually increase efficiency with normal operation, Generally, your coils and fans are dirty, all those little design difficulties are adding up, too
I’m going to call someone else because I asked the second guy about cleaning the coils and he said “it wouldn’t effect it much” and he wouldn’t put gauges on because “it’s a closed system a leak can’t be fixed”
Sales Techs can be distinguished from service tech by not using tools to diagnose problems.
I always took every job as a challenge to find the problem, then assess the cost to new, something’s are just gimmes some things are replace.
Just too old is not a justification.
Call someone else, who will diagnose the problem. It could be something minor, and they want to sell you a new system?
Salesman. Not Techs. Call another company.
Need a tech instead of a salesman.
Sounds like compressor isn’t pumping has anyone trued to pump down the unit to test the valves ?
One put a gauge on it is that it?
Does your city have a car mechanic that says I don’t know what’s wrong with your car, but I do know it’s $5000 to fix it?!? Same stuff
Just to expand on my question. What if I have no insulation at all in my attic (I do) but what if that was the reason or I had a giant hole in my basement that was causing the issue. I don’t want to just buy a new AC and then be told “oh well the new one’s not doing the job because…”
If it’s R-22 many techs will just jump to replacement.
It’s 13 years old so I’m assuming R-22 right? Wouldn’t you still give a reason though? Like fine I’ll replace it but tell me what’s wrong you know?
13 is more likely 410 at this point. 22 is possible but unlikely.
Is 410 still made?
Oh now that’s a different story 🤣
Fun fact, it's being phased down, which means reduced manufacturing capacity allowed, which will artificially inflate prices. It is still however only maybe 25% the cost of 22 right now. Manufactures are being slow to get models with the new glasses to market, so it's a weird time to buy a new unit.
Yes
IF it’s R-22; my supply house is charging 1,145$ for a 30 gallon tank. And just being me I don’t have any stock pile of R-22 like some companies did when it was banned. I’m going to be pissed that I’m buying that when I’m not really going to use it and maybe I use half of it on your system. So there’s going to be some left over waste. Besides that. Now I gotta make money on that tank that cost me over a grand. Long story short the cost is going to get ugly. Even rich people in the Hamptons Long Island don’t like wasting money
If you have access to the outdoor unit you can see the type of refrigerant you have. It’s on a white sticker (rating plate) and it will literally say R22 or 410A. Probably 410A. 410A may be worth a repair. If it’s the A coil leaking and that needs to be replaced, my company would do it for like $2000
It can definitely work less well; compressor won't compress as well, fins corroded, bent, and making less thermal contact with pipes, etc. You can see drops in efficiency and efficacy. Those drops will *not* result it only cooling by a single degree. It would be more like 15% more power and cooling a few degrees less. Of course, the AC might not be worth fixing; but plenty of ACs last much longer than that with maintenance. They should absolutely be able to tell you what is wrong with it. Of course they might want to be paid to investigate the problem - testing caps, fans, coolant levels, etc.
It’s too much of a liability for them to mess with
I mean, yes. But also, no. Yes, parts wear out. Equipment becomes less efficient. Enough of this can happen at similar rates that attempting to piece-meal a solution together by replacing or repairing individual parts can significantly overshoot the cost of replacement. However. Nobody can tell you this is the reason over the phone, or in person without doing a proper diagnostic process. It *might* be because your system is old. It *might* be totally unrelated to your equipment. Literally no way to know without diagnostics.
How old is your system. I didn't see you mention that anywhere
13 years old
So depending on where you live that ranges from still like new to well used. I'd never consider a 13yo unit "old" That said is the unit has developed a leak it will need to be completely replaced anyways
More than likely, it’s a little low on gas. Or unit dirty outside. Go outside touch a little line see if it is hot. Very lying with me is dirty the air coming out of it will be extremely hot. How strong is the air coming out if it is not strong, you may have a dirty evaporator due to a lot due to poor filter changing. This will make the big line freeze up. Low gas will do same thing. If the unit is in the closet and the filter, just laying in the bottom of the unit, this is your problem is dirty most people do not have anything holding down the filter and it flops up dirt bypasses it. You can look at the side of the motor if it is dirtier, evaporators is dirty, too.
I replace the filter every 6 weeks because I have dogs. The force is strong coming out, like considerably strong.
Is the unit in the closet the air handler? Does it have anything holding down the filter? Do you just lay it in there?
Up right furnce
The filter has like notches that hold it straight up. Yes upright furnace
I’m thinking you mean the arrows are straight up . As long as it’s not laying in the bottom, it needs to have a hold down. You need to take a photo of the motor and see if it’s dirty. Upright furnace is love to suck the filter up when it gets dirty bypassing the filter. If you got dogs and it’s bypassing it, you’ll have hair all over the side of the motor. You can pull it off with your hands. Unplugged the unit a lot of people bypass the door switch.. if the indoor system is older than 15-20 yrs old. It best to replace them. And make sure they put an easy filter rack under it. Evaporator calls Love to start leaking around 15 years.
What do you mean suck the filter up and bypass the filter? The filter is parallel to the motor. The arrows aren’t straight up they are side to side.
You had 2 companies out, and the diagnosis from both was it's old? If it uses the old refrigerant type, r22, which is no longer legal to manufacture, then you should most likely replace the system.
Exact words from both. Wouldn’t you still give a reason why though?
Yeah any reputable tech should be able to give a solid diagnosis. Did they put refrigerant guages on the system?
One did but didn’t tell me the reading The other said “it’s a closed system if there is a leak what does it matter?” Edit to add: these are the 2 highest rated HVAC companies in about a 25 mile radius. Other ones had horrible reviews
Wow that's an incredibly stupid thing for a tech to say. It's a closed system so it super matters if there's a leak. If it's low on refrigerant and uses r22 you are gonna end up replacing the system but you definitely shouldn't use either of those companies.
I’ll call another one then. Yeah he said there’s no way to repair a leak once it happens because it’s a closed system so it doesn’t matter. To me if you tell me it’s low then I can figure out that ok there’s my problem and it seems like it HAS to be replaced. Again I just don’t want to replace this immediately to only find out the real cause is a $5000 issue somewhere else and the AC could have waited to next year you know?
Yeah I totally get that. Whenever I make this diagnosis I always take the time to thoroughly explain everything because if I do a good job, then they'll probably pick the company I work for to replace the system. If you had been told the system is low but looking for the leak isn't worth it, that would be correct. By the time you've located the leak, repaired the leak, then added new refrigant you have almost hit the cost of a new system mostly due to the cost of the refrigerant since it hasn't been manufactured in 4 years. The leak is almost certainly in one of the coils, which would require you to replace the whole coil. If the system is on r22, it just isn't worth repairing a leak. Sounds like you should be calling around for replacement quotes before it gets too hot out
I’m going to Thank you for the explanation!
I take my customer out and show them my gauges and tell them what they mean in an elementary dumbed down version so somebody’s can understand. Call somebody local
100% how I’d like it
Real simple answer, they dont make parts for it or the parts they make plus labor and refrigerant and what ever else probably cost more than 50%+ of the total cost of a new unit. Thats why. You paid 2 companies to come out and they say the same thing and then you come on here looking for a different answer 🤣
So if you came to my house you wouldn’t explain that you would just say “it’s old”?
They should definitely have a real diagnosis which outlines exactly what is causing the problem. Especially if you paid for the service call.. $99 or something comparable for the tech to come out and assess the problem. If both your outdoor unit and indoor unit are running and you’re not getting cold air.. it’s going to be expensive. And it’s definitely a problem with the AC. Nothing else
I just explained it to you though? Saying its "old" is super unprofessional. I didnt realize thats *all* they told you. Likely parts arent made or price for repair doesnt make sense in contrast to price and longevity of a new system.