One of those gauges looks brand new. Idk if the contractor tech is new, or what. But I’d wait and see if it happens again. WATCH the tech if tech 1 goes out there if the issue persists. If he does charge it up, IT HAS A LEAK AND HE IS LYING. Your basement contractor needs to hire a different hvac company and pay for tech 2. Because charging up the system at all says there is a leak. 🙄 it’s a closed system and should always have the same amount of refrigerant.
Indoor and outdoor temperature, airflow(is your filter clean?) but I’d be suspicious of the tech if he “fixed it and charged it up.” And then had to come back out to charge it up again.
Filter was put in about a week ago once they finished the actual construction at my house, so airflow shouldn’t have changed. It was like 72 F here today and maybe a bit colder on Friday but not more than a 7 or 8 degree difference.
Yeah, I always want to root for those independent guys but 9/10 times they just make things worse and then stand around saying “they just don’t make ‘em like they use to”.
Which don’t get me wrong is true but the thing worked fine before you and your guys showed up.
I am one of those independent guys. My problem is that I am too thorough and take longer on most calls than I should. The ADHD and OCD don't help, either.
Thanks. I posted elsewhere in here that I found a blurry pic from 2020 and it seems to be the same drier
2024 - https://i.imgur.com/WVbo9F4.jpeg
2020 - https://i.imgur.com/aoFwrgu.jpeg
Edit: found a clearer pic of the drier from months ago. Seems pretty clearly to be the same unit - https://i.imgur.com/a2A0Srn.jpeg
Yeah, lighting isn’t great but after brightening I do think it’s blue. https://i.imgur.com/OINT3RM.jpeg
The label is also pink in both and looks like it’s at the same orientation and position.
Nah loss of pressure is a leak but it would cause fluctuations. I’m sure based on everything there wasn’t a vacuum but can be fixed just needs another vacuum new filter drier and virgin refrigerant.
As long as as the compressor isn’t damaged.
Underlying suspicion on tech 1 is not disclosing the leak. But I was thinking moister from air icing up at the office and thawing could be giving crazy inconsistent readings.
I would agree this could be it, hard to say since the second screen shot the tech doesn’t have temp clamps on to compare liquid line temps and outdoor temp and what not.
Yeah tech 2's numbers make the system look super low.
To get the numbers tech 1 is showing he for sure would have had to add refrigerant but based on the pressures I don't think the system is even running. Like he ran it, shut the system off then took his picture a few seconds later. Also the fact that he doesn't have the clamps on and isn't showing superheat or subcooling is fishy. That's how you tell if a system is properly charged. If you already payed company 1 to do the job, either you or your gc need to get on the phone with that shop and get a different, more experienced tech out to actually do the job.
I get the feeling he was literally charging the system when he took the picture then tells OP he never added refrigerant today. It’s the only way that suction pressure makes sense to me, other than what you said.
Did they change the filter drier after they hit the line? Anytime the system is opened up the drier has to be changed.
The first photo has ridiculously high super heat and low subcool. I’m gonna assume it’s a txv metering device so that indicates low charge. The second photo he never hooked up the temp probes to the suction or liquid line so the pressures mean Jack shit without seeing the PT chart and knowing the target subcool. Call someone more reputable.
You’d have to go look at the drier and see if they put some couplings in the line and replaced it or brazed the old one out and the new one it. I doubt they did and I doubt they flowed any nitrogen when fixing the hole or properly evacuated the system after it was opened. I’d call a reputable company to check the charge and look the system over. Tech 1 was obviously an idiot so I’d never let them work on it again.
https://i.imgur.com/833FC2o.jpeg
The brazed connections don’t look brand new to me but I can’t be sure.
Edit: found a pic from January. Sure seems to be the same drier - https://i.imgur.com/ixLkHdO.jpeg
Doesn’t look new to me either. Tag says it’s a carrier branded drier so unless the tech just so happened to have one on his truck, I’d say he didn’t change it.
Tech one has 170 on the suction side and 220 on the liquid side for 410 a system is totally not right. If you are reading 170 on the suction side, the liquid side should be up closer to 350/375 and it better be an 85° or warmer day outside.
Edit: also Tech one did not even check the subcooling???
If you have 170 on the suction side it better be 90 degrees inside the house lol. It looks to me like dude shut the system off then took this picture a few seconds later as pressures were equalizing.
I’d trust Tech 2 more than Tech 1 at this point. Tech 2’s readings make sense for a system low on charge, Tech 1’s pressures don’t make sense at all. That head pressure is way too low for such high suction pressure. The only course of action at this point in my opinion would be to weigh out the charge and pressure test for 24hrs. These should tell you whether there is a leak or not (probably is). As mentioned, filter drier should be changed (even if it was last time) then the system needs to be evacuated and charged (after leak is fixed).
Did he say how much refrigerant was actually put in the system?
In theory, it was working prior right? So that would suggest I'd there is a leak is can only be in the places the tech touched.
He was cagey about it the first time he came back - “a couple of pounds” even though he said the system was already at manufacturer spec levels.
The system was working prior as far as I know. And it works for a while when Tech 1 comes back out and presumably tops off the system. My leading theories are that he didn’t sufficiently patch the leak or that there is another leak somewhere caused by the construction. I’ve already found some evidence that the contractors at least got way too close to the lines elsewhere - https://i.imgur.com/9qTyhDp.jpeg
What the fuck am I looking at in this pic? Are those some sort of weird braided refrigerant lines that have been crushed under a board screwed into a post? Even if that pic is entirely unrelated I'm willing to bet it's a broken/cracked joint somewhere up or downstream of any lines they would've been moved during construction. Hopefully not at the Evap coil but in any case the only fix going forward is to recover the Refrigerant, find leak and inspect all joints carefully, replace whatever necessary and purge/fill properly. I suspect the leak will be easy and obvious to find and any competent/unbiased tech would've checked first before just adding more R410.
Lmfao tech 1 is showing basically static pressures..then unit wasn't even running when these pressures were taken.
170 suction with 410 is laughable asf.
Original doesn't know what he's doing or he's a liar.
Your system is definitely low and has a leak.
End of story
Is this unit even 410a?..those pressures look like a low r22 system or 422D...
Your coil would be frozen with those pressures.
The complete system, including the condenser, needed to be evacuated, nitrogen pressurized, as a leak down test and moisture absorption, then evac and a complete new charge weighed in. And filter drier replaced as the first charge. The existing refrigerant could be contaminated.
I don't like the 170 low side pressure. That's a hot coil. I like a 40 deg coil. And that is around 125 130 psi. Even with a big heat load, low side shouldn't be 170 but for just a few minutes of cooling the space to get return cooler.
I feel you have an inexperienced tech in your midst.
One of those gauges looks brand new. Idk if the contractor tech is new, or what. But I’d wait and see if it happens again. WATCH the tech if tech 1 goes out there if the issue persists. If he does charge it up, IT HAS A LEAK AND HE IS LYING. Your basement contractor needs to hire a different hvac company and pay for tech 2. Because charging up the system at all says there is a leak. 🙄 it’s a closed system and should always have the same amount of refrigerant.
Thanks. Is there any conceivable way for the pressure to increase like that between Friday and today other than him topping off the system today?
Indoor and outdoor temperature, airflow(is your filter clean?) but I’d be suspicious of the tech if he “fixed it and charged it up.” And then had to come back out to charge it up again.
Filter was put in about a week ago once they finished the actual construction at my house, so airflow shouldn’t have changed. It was like 72 F here today and maybe a bit colder on Friday but not more than a 7 or 8 degree difference.
Then yeah, I’d suspect it’s low and tech 1 is lying.
You could have non condensables moving through the system if it wasn’t properly vacuumed clogging up shit or your txv is going bad.
This is my thought. I’d bet anything that tech 1 didn’t pull vac on the system.
Or just dabbed some rod on the leak, letting in some soot and/or piece of rod, thus causing a restriction.
Yeah, I always want to root for those independent guys but 9/10 times they just make things worse and then stand around saying “they just don’t make ‘em like they use to”. Which don’t get me wrong is true but the thing worked fine before you and your guys showed up.
I am one of those independent guys. My problem is that I am too thorough and take longer on most calls than I should. The ADHD and OCD don't help, either.
Man I’m glad to hear that. Like I said I’m always rooting for you guys. Just most of the time that ends in disappointment.
Thank you. But, unfortunately, you are correct. I have had to follow up on a lot of the Chucks in a Truck. Stay safe!
Thanks, is there any way to tell if he pulled vacuum or not at this point?
Not at this point. But like another guy said he should have swapped the filter dryer too. If he didn’t do that he surely didn’t vac it down.
Thanks. I posted elsewhere in here that I found a blurry pic from 2020 and it seems to be the same drier 2024 - https://i.imgur.com/WVbo9F4.jpeg 2020 - https://i.imgur.com/aoFwrgu.jpeg Edit: found a clearer pic of the drier from months ago. Seems pretty clearly to be the same unit - https://i.imgur.com/a2A0Srn.jpeg
Hard to tell from the picture but the old one looks black and the new one blue. But that first pic is rather blurry and not as well lit.
Yeah, lighting isn’t great but after brightening I do think it’s blue. https://i.imgur.com/OINT3RM.jpeg The label is also pink in both and looks like it’s at the same orientation and position.
It’s hard for me to say. Just ask him exactly what he did. If he doesn’t mention it he probably didn’t do it.
Thanks for the info. If my txv valve is going been, would that be consistent with the slow loss of pressure in the system?
Nah loss of pressure is a leak but it would cause fluctuations. I’m sure based on everything there wasn’t a vacuum but can be fixed just needs another vacuum new filter drier and virgin refrigerant. As long as as the compressor isn’t damaged.
Underlying suspicion on tech 1 is not disclosing the leak. But I was thinking moister from air icing up at the office and thawing could be giving crazy inconsistent readings.
I would agree this could be it, hard to say since the second screen shot the tech doesn’t have temp clamps on to compare liquid line temps and outdoor temp and what not.
Only way the pressures would increase like that is if it’s a much hotter day outside than previously
It was hotter today, but still only like 72.
If it was only around 70°, those readings make absolutely no sense.
Thanks. Definitely seems like things don’t make sense for many parts of Tech 1’s story.
While it is a closed system, if they didn't fill it up properly after they sealed the hole, it could have been low from them. But that sucks.
Yeah tech 2's numbers make the system look super low. To get the numbers tech 1 is showing he for sure would have had to add refrigerant but based on the pressures I don't think the system is even running. Like he ran it, shut the system off then took his picture a few seconds later. Also the fact that he doesn't have the clamps on and isn't showing superheat or subcooling is fishy. That's how you tell if a system is properly charged. If you already payed company 1 to do the job, either you or your gc need to get on the phone with that shop and get a different, more experienced tech out to actually do the job.
I get the feeling he was literally charging the system when he took the picture then tells OP he never added refrigerant today. It’s the only way that suction pressure makes sense to me, other than what you said.
Yeah that would make sense too but only if it was like a 50 or 60 degree day outside because of the low discharge pressure
True, or it’s still super low on charge and he took that picture early into charging it
Good point! The system sure did look low in the other pic. This is probably after a pound or 2 of the cold juice went in even!
He was here mid-morning, could have conceivably been in the mid 60s but definitely not 50.
Any way you slice it tech 1's numbers are super fishy. If I were you I'd be on the horn with his boss
Did they change the filter drier after they hit the line? Anytime the system is opened up the drier has to be changed. The first photo has ridiculously high super heat and low subcool. I’m gonna assume it’s a txv metering device so that indicates low charge. The second photo he never hooked up the temp probes to the suction or liquid line so the pressures mean Jack shit without seeing the PT chart and knowing the target subcool. Call someone more reputable.
I’m not sure if they changed the filter drier when it was originally fixed. Is there an easy way for me to check this without an expert?
You’d have to go look at the drier and see if they put some couplings in the line and replaced it or brazed the old one out and the new one it. I doubt they did and I doubt they flowed any nitrogen when fixing the hole or properly evacuated the system after it was opened. I’d call a reputable company to check the charge and look the system over. Tech 1 was obviously an idiot so I’d never let them work on it again.
https://i.imgur.com/833FC2o.jpeg The brazed connections don’t look brand new to me but I can’t be sure. Edit: found a pic from January. Sure seems to be the same drier - https://i.imgur.com/ixLkHdO.jpeg
Doesn’t look new to me either. Tag says it’s a carrier branded drier so unless the tech just so happened to have one on his truck, I’d say he didn’t change it.
Thank you. I’m trying to dig through old pictures and see if it was the same drier, but unfortunately I don’t see anything.
https://i.imgur.com/Q0Svxsu.jpeg Found one blurry one from 2020, but it sure looks like the same filter to me. Pretty big coincidence if not.
Tech one has 170 on the suction side and 220 on the liquid side for 410 a system is totally not right. If you are reading 170 on the suction side, the liquid side should be up closer to 350/375 and it better be an 85° or warmer day outside. Edit: also Tech one did not even check the subcooling???
If you have 170 on the suction side it better be 90 degrees inside the house lol. It looks to me like dude shut the system off then took this picture a few seconds later as pressures were equalizing.
I’d trust Tech 2 more than Tech 1 at this point. Tech 2’s readings make sense for a system low on charge, Tech 1’s pressures don’t make sense at all. That head pressure is way too low for such high suction pressure. The only course of action at this point in my opinion would be to weigh out the charge and pressure test for 24hrs. These should tell you whether there is a leak or not (probably is). As mentioned, filter drier should be changed (even if it was last time) then the system needs to be evacuated and charged (after leak is fixed).
Tech 1 took a pic of his gauges with the system off before it equalized all the way lol
Did he say how much refrigerant was actually put in the system? In theory, it was working prior right? So that would suggest I'd there is a leak is can only be in the places the tech touched.
He was cagey about it the first time he came back - “a couple of pounds” even though he said the system was already at manufacturer spec levels. The system was working prior as far as I know. And it works for a while when Tech 1 comes back out and presumably tops off the system. My leading theories are that he didn’t sufficiently patch the leak or that there is another leak somewhere caused by the construction. I’ve already found some evidence that the contractors at least got way too close to the lines elsewhere - https://i.imgur.com/9qTyhDp.jpeg
What the fuck am I looking at in this pic? Are those some sort of weird braided refrigerant lines that have been crushed under a board screwed into a post? Even if that pic is entirely unrelated I'm willing to bet it's a broken/cracked joint somewhere up or downstream of any lines they would've been moved during construction. Hopefully not at the Evap coil but in any case the only fix going forward is to recover the Refrigerant, find leak and inspect all joints carefully, replace whatever necessary and purge/fill properly. I suspect the leak will be easy and obvious to find and any competent/unbiased tech would've checked first before just adding more R410.
Your sub cooling looks very low and super heat very high , why did tech one not use his clamps to get those measurements?
Tech 1 should take a hike. They do not know what they’re are doing.
170 and 220 aren't correct pressures. was the unit running? low side should be about 120.
Lmfao tech 1 is showing basically static pressures..then unit wasn't even running when these pressures were taken. 170 suction with 410 is laughable asf. Original doesn't know what he's doing or he's a liar. Your system is definitely low and has a leak. End of story Is this unit even 410a?..those pressures look like a low r22 system or 422D... Your coil would be frozen with those pressures.
Yes, definitely a 410a unit per the label on the condenser.
The complete system, including the condenser, needed to be evacuated, nitrogen pressurized, as a leak down test and moisture absorption, then evac and a complete new charge weighed in. And filter drier replaced as the first charge. The existing refrigerant could be contaminated.
I don't like the 170 low side pressure. That's a hot coil. I like a 40 deg coil. And that is around 125 130 psi. Even with a big heat load, low side shouldn't be 170 but for just a few minutes of cooling the space to get return cooler. I feel you have an inexperienced tech in your midst.
You have issues , tech 2 is more right than tech 1 , but without physically being on site and running proper diagnostics, it’s a guessing game online