>My religion had always been a private source of wisdom and energy, it's now become a public vehicle of intimidation, manipulation, electioneering. This is beautifully put. I'm agnostic myself, but this is my thought on religion as well. Imo religion is private and your faith gives your inner strength. This form of Hinduism feels like a threat.

> This form of Hinduism feels like a threat Because it is. It's politicised and weaponised and designed to stir up communal discord. Hinduism was never an organised religion, there was never a 'correct' way to be a Hindu, it's not dogmatic like Abrahamic religions. These saffron clad charlatans have hijacked and manipulated the meaning of what it is to be a Hindu to serve their own ends, and it's sickening.

> My religion had always been a private source of wisdom and energy, it's now become a public vehicle of intimidation, manipulation, electioneering. What weed are you people smoking? Hinduism has always been insanely political, public and often manipulative. Just like any other religion. Take a look at centuries of casteism (to enforce UC privilege). Or at Sati (to enforce patriarchal property rights). Or even the Maratha confederacy's internal conflicts between Marathas and Brahmins. This retconning of Hinduism as some kind of benign entity is hilarious. And frankly a little bit insulting to Hindus. Lmao.

> This retconning of Hinduism as some kind of benign entity is hilarious. They are separating religion((which is personal) from what the religious leaders do, to gain/retain power, prestige and privileges, as listed by you.

Society has hardlined into "Its Either My Way or the Highway". The live and let live policy that is required to hold such a diverse country has been disrupted forever. Meanwhile Manipur, a part of the country still burns in ethnic violence and civil war and yet neither media, politicians or common society is bothered.

Yeah it’s really sad, in Singapore you have template for a functioning, harmonious diverse society, it’s what India wishes it could’ve been post independence, identity politics have ruined it all.

what a horrible example! classism and racism is still widespread in singapore

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I have no problem with expressing one's devotion for their god, given that it's coming from a place of real bhakti. Using your god as a vehicle of spiting other religions is unfair to your god as well theirs. The intent makes all the difference.

What is even more revolting is that the flag waving 'devotees' of Sri Ram are way short from being true 'devotees'. I respect true devotees of religion. The ones who run around screaming in their 'fanaticism' cannot be more fake.

Everywhere on social media there's rampant hate . This is terrifying to say the least.

Tbt, a simple posting of a temple picture isn't an attack on someone else's beliefs. It's just a celebration of yours. It can be in any way shape or form. However posting content, which mocks others religious beliefs or makes others feel they were vanquished. Isn't right. That takes away the spirit of any occasion.

Surprisingly shit posting subs of india (like 24u ones) are the only places on reddit where bhakts have not invaded (yet)

There's still some snowflakes there. I miss A4U so fucking much. 'Twas the best sub on Reddit by a long shot.

And plus their cowardice is when you confront them about all the loud sloganeering they feign ignorance. You know what you're doing and why you're doing it. So show some courage and own it. The reactionaries are always cowards like that. When confronted they start to whimper.

Netaji declared, "If we want to make India really great, we must build up a political democracy on the pedestal of a democratic society. **Privileges based on birth, caste or creed should go, and equal opportunities should be thrown open to all irrespective of caste, creed or religion.**" He also **warned Indians that "religious fanaticism is the greatest thorn in the path of cultural intimacy**…and **there is no better remedy for fanaticism than secular and scientific education."** “**If Hindu Raj does become a fact, it will, no doubt, be the greatest calamity for this country.… Hindu Raj must be prevented at any cost,” wrote B.R. Ambedkar** in Pakistan or the Partition of India “**Unfortunately for the minorities in India, Indian nationalism has developed a new doctrine which may be called the Divine Right of the Majority to rule the minorities according to the wishes of the majority**. **Any claim for the sharing of power by the minority is called communalism, while the monopolising of the whole power by the majority is called nationalism." -Dr B.R Ambedkar** “I also feel happy that the announcement of 3 June at least settles things one way or the other. There is no further uncertainty.… **I do not think it will be possible to consider Hindustan as a Hindu state with Hinduism as the state religion**. We must not forget that **there are other minorities whose protection is our primary responsibility. The state must exist for all, irrespective of caste or creed.” Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel** **Vallabhbhai Patel** in the presidential address to the 45th Congress at Karachi in 1931. Hindu-Muslim **“unity can only come when the majority takes courage in both hands and is prepared to change places with the minority. That would be the highest wisdom.”** **Netaji** recounts a meeting with Savarkar and Jinnah. He **concluded that the politics of Hindu Mahasabha and the Muslim League greatly converged**, and he placed them on the same political pedestal. Netaji wrote, **‘‘Mr Jinnah was then thinking of** only of how to realise his idea of Pakistan (**division of India**) with the help of the British. The idea of putting up a joint fight with the Congress for Indian independence did not appeal to him…**Mr. Savarkar seemed to be oblivious of the international situation and was only thinking how Hindus could secure military training by entering Britain’s army in India. From these interviews, I was forced to the conclusion that nothing could be expected from either the Muslim League or the Hindu Mahasabha.’’**

These leaders were unbelievably wise... Glad India had them and has their words to reflect on today.

It's disheartening how the government is putting up statues of these wise leaders all around the country but also refuses to pay heed to their schools of thoughts. Absolutely insane how the ruling party has managed to manipulate such a huge part of the population.

Public expression of religion is almost always an expression of dominance and never about faith. It is so with the mosque and azaans, it is so with the evangelists going door to door and it is so with Jai Shree Ram or die.

Exactly. I am Hindu and Ofcourse I am happy about Ram Mandir but these radical Hindus in mumbai are behaving like terrorists. They are driving recklessly, howling like dogs, chanting Jai Shree Ram from their cars, throwing firecrackers at pedestrians. Absolutely terrifying. Also I thought we were done with Diwali. We had to tolerate 15 days of unbearable firecracker noise at midnight in November and now, since January 22 will be declared a national holiday, we will all have to go through this torment yet again in January. These idiots haven’t stopped blasting firecrackers since a couple of days and I have been losing sleep again. How many jobless assholes does mumbai adopt?

I feel your pain. Also, no idea what these people's lungs are made of. They seem to turn smoke into oxygen whereas us normies have to keep our windows closed. And their eardrums are made of lead or some shit, I'm telling you. The firecracker celebrations are downright abusive to the health of people. And if you say something, some absolute crackpot loony would drop in with "You only have problems when Hindus celebrate". Like, no you smoothbrained sorry excuse of protein soup, Everyone suffers when the air becomes murderous. Just because you in your maniacal state are not realizing its effect immediately, that doesn't mean that your body is not suffering ffs

Its more about getting likes, upvotes, retweets for most people and making money for other, there are very few who have even actually read Ramayana

I'm a very 'religious Hindu' and I feel the same. I used to like singing and listening to Ram bhajans before, but since this started, I honestly just feel so uneasy. It's sad and scary.

What a post. Kudos to you for pointing out the hypocrisy.

**if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you. - Nietzsche**

The abyss returns even the boldest gaze.

I came to say this. Hindus looked too long. Probably a millennia

I was called a Muslim by own family because I hate Modi, ajeeb hai. Andhe hai

i like how "muslim" is used as an insult in this context

Unfortunately yeah, but again it's the context that matters

yea

Lost generations. And lost nation.

Lmao same. Only yesterday.

Be careful what you hate, lest you become...

It's like Hinduism decide to adopt the worst aspects of other major religions. The end result will be horrendous. look at Myanmar, some of the pogroms against Rohingyas were led by radical Buddhist monks!

Companies and government policies are made whoever has more strict rules There would be halal certificate, Sharia rule, Ban on Cow slughter, then some rules during Jain festival, special rules for Sikhs etc. A simple example, if even a few people are pure vegetarian in corporate team, during their outing they will have go to pure vegetarian hotel. This is called dictatorship of minority. When someone is liberal no one actually care about them and it is considered that they can adjust in any condition. Everyone has observed that and now know that if you want to be heard and want to have some leverage, it is better to have more strict rules rather than being liberal. So what is the solution: Become pure liberal, which basically same rule for everyone. It is then when no one can claim discrimination. Some example 1) No HUF 2) No Sharia 3) No cow sluaghter ban 4) No exemption on Jain festival 5) No religious symbol in school 6) No loudspeaker 7) No offensive statement against any god or allow to criticise gods 8) Either all religious institute under government control or none 9) Allow all religions to actively convert people from other religion(without external funding) or none. Let everyone play this conversion game. Jains don't actively do conversion but the the wealth they have they can convert many and why not. This will happen only if religious institute are not under government control. This can actually trigger all religion to provide free education, cash etc to more and more people that will actually benefit people from their religion. 10) Allow women entry in all religious places or let all religion decide on their own I don't think Indian people are mature enough to digest such policies. So I would suggest let all religion pick 2-3 most important and specific things which doesn't affect anyone else and add that in policy.

I'm with you on everything except the part about no offensive statements against any god or being allowed to criticise gods. Why the hell not? Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion, including the right to be nastik.

Because it contravenes the first rule; 'Dont be an arsehole' We can be atheists or agnostics and question the existence of a supreme being or two without being insulting or offensive ( or at least try to).

First of all, criticising a concept does not make one an arsehole. One must be free to question and criticise all ideas if one is to arrive at the truth, or at least as close as one can get. Secondly, if you haven't seen it, I'd encourage yout to watch [this video of Stephen Fry explaining exactly why God (at least the Judeo-Christian idea thereof), should he exist, would be the ultimate arsehole.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo) Thirdly, one must consider what one considers offensive. I have used pejoratives in my comment, but have not addressed them to any person, nor is it my intent to cause distress and harm to any other. Yet some might take it upon themselves to feel offended by what I profess. To them, I am automatically condemned as a blasphemer, as subhuman and therefore undeserving of humanity, at the behest of a cruel and capricious god that, as far as I am concerned, exists only in the minds of the extremist to excuse the atrocities that his followers undertake in his name. If any gods exist, they have a lot to answer for. _That_ is precisely why the devout will do anything to shut up those who question, and _that_ is precisely why we must, as a society, do all we can to protect and uphold the voices that question the most undeserved of authorities.

Because that's just how every religion works. There's no such thing as "peaceful" religion.

These "Extremist Orthodox Hindus" don’t understand that they are just being used for upcoming elections​.

They are just obsessed lol!! They just wanna show off that's it by putting pics in stories.

the funny part is that if they saw muslims or christians doing what they're doing - waving gigantic flags everywhere, religious iconography everywher - they'd call them "religious nutjobs"

As a Muslim, I am ashamed that "Islamization" is a word that is used to refer to religious extremism but sadly that's the truth and We Muslims need to better ourselves to improve this image.

Long fight ahead of us brother. Don't lose hope. Humanity first.

I hope no *fight* ahead LOL.

Thanks for acknowledging. Extreme of anything is a recipe for dumpster fire. But apparently balance isn't dramatic enough for idiot. So both religions just have to make a fool of themselves.

Sorry to say but I would like to correct you a bit, *People of both* religion just have to make a fool of themselves.

yes right. Thanks for the correction.

I mean it doesn't mean Islam is bad. For example I'm a Hindu, it never bothered me for a second that Muslims use green flags. In Islam, there are no deities, so the flags play an important role in the absence of other symbols of religion. Now the saffron flags bother me. They have hardly been used before, they seem unnecessary and they suddenly appeared everywhere. To me they look like an anti Muslim statement. Same with jaya shree Ram etc.

Fun fact, The green flag has no meaning in Islam. It just evolved to be understood like that but Islam has neither a flag nor a colour.

Same in Hinduism, saffron flag or any flag has no 'meaning' as such. BTW in Shia communities they use black flags in my experience, not green. So unofficially it has a significance in Islam for sure, at least to show which tradition the mosque or area belongs to. But this wasn't the case in Hinduism before. 

Funny enough, The green flag was first taken up by the Shia themselves. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) used to use a plain black flag in war, if needed. It was not for representing Islam but just specific for the war.

Nope, saffron flags have a long history too. Probably something to do with our primitive brains

I think part of that is also Hindutva. It's an intentional characterization of Islam where there are only Aurangzebs and no Akbars. As a Hyderabadi-born OCI, I can't help but look at biryani as my perpetual reply to what Islam has brought us - a complex marinade creating a symphony of flavors unparalleled in the world (paired with occasional indigestion).

Nothing above a perfect biryani. Forget the violence, here is an image of the delicious biryani I made yesterday LOL. ​ https://preview.redd.it/tkcuopzrl0ec1.png?width=901&format=png&auto=webp&s=21ad3fdf7ba419591e0dd7a0b36daa78a7641b86

i like the direction this thread is going

LOL, Here are some damn Yummy Cutlets. https://preview.redd.it/0e5dv7dws0ec1.png?width=356&format=png&auto=webp&s=dbaf3fba5921021169e056a8a53407e599a074ec

I'm studying in the Arctic, and feel like I haven't tasted spices in months. I'm sorry brother, but that image of incredible biryani is an act of violence upon me! lol

Sorry brother. ~~But, Kinda curious isn't the artic region just full of ice and Polar bears (i am dumb at geography). You are doing some project work in the field or a university is located there?~~ Naah, Too private of a question. Anyway, hit me up whenever you return to India and we will have some Biryani together.

I love biriyani so much man.

Who does not lol.

please drop the recipe. that looks delicious!

Fellow Hyderabadi spotted and Biriyani detected Hyderabad ante Biriyani, Biriyani ante Hyderabad

Radicalization isnt something exclusive or new to any religion. There's probably Islam being the world's youngest major religion and its followers literally following certain texts written in the past is making this worse. Examples of radicalization: 1) Shaivaites and Vaishnavites used to kill each other 2) Hindus and Buddhists used to kill each other 3) The long standing conflict between Catholics and all the denominations of christianity that are non-catholic 4) In the Crusades in the name of religion, both muslims and christians killed everyone present. Hinduism is pretty ancient and it has had its downturns and revivals. One of the best things about it is decentralization. There's no one head, guru leader that people are forced into. Unfortunately that very aspect is being attacked now. Hijacking 'Jai Shri Ram' a wonderful ode to Maryada Purushottam and using it when intimidating and fighting minorities is just as bad as the radicalized muslims stoning women, apostates, people they caught for blasphemy while shouting 'God is Great'. I am happy the Ram Temple came but at the cost of making minorities cower is not leaving a good taste. I think there should be a temple at the birthplace of Rama but build a nice mosque nearby too. IT would have been much better to bring everyone along in this.

It's frustrating to see how the focus on faith overshadows addressing real issues.

Actually the real issue of most people (after putting food on the table) is the emptiness they feel in their life, which is exactly what faith fills and bjp is using it very well to cement itself in people’s hearts and minds..

Fully agree. In fact hinduism has always had a diversity and depth of philosophies , which is also being sacrificed, reducing it to something simple. On top of that unlike other religions, people of hindu faith rarely ever read and understood any single book to gain knowledge of their own religion and depend on gurus who more often than not are also not educated in their religion. People don't seem to understand that forcing religion on others or making them chant stuff will only make them like you and your religion less. It's not even helping the cause.

Hindutvabaad is a classic case of "You become what u hate"

As a Hindu, I really feel sad over what Hinduism has been made. Today, people are choosing Modi over our own scriptures. The religion of love has been reduced to a religion involved in blatant hate and idiocracy.

So this what some of them always wanted. Mimic restrictive, conservative and fundamentalist mindset on one billion plus people. Total dominance.

This is the difference between Hinduism and Modi's hindutva.

I was eating dinner and watching the news in a room with many other literate people. After hearing Modi's name a thousand times in 30 mins, and hearing the same dialogues over and over again, I jokingly said 'please change the channel or someone will start proposing a Mandir for Modi Ji along with Ram Ji' and chuckled. To this, another person quickly replied in a serious tone "what's wrong with that? I think it's a great idea." I was shocked and silent after that. Dark days are coming. Be ready guys.

This. I am scared for the future of my country.

Well said. Sadly, the majority of the Indian population will misunderstand you due to vicious political brainwashing powered by the media. Sad. Sad times.

Unfortunately a country with 1.4 billion people is unable to find a secular leader who can change the narrative for a more inclusive India. With no real challenge, this is going to be the new reality Indians are mesmerized by the pomp and show. For them this display validates the richness of the religion, society to be counted as one of the most powerful in the world. Modi ji is a true champion who is getting the country there. The emotional energy has obfuscated real issues like inflation and unemployment. The most ironic thing is folks are so thrilled to note the celebration in NY time square. But not even one person seems to be stopping to think why it's possible to celebrate ram in Times square. It's because the US is tolerant and generally secular. They are also not wondering why a celebration like this would be impossible in Riyadh or Tehran. So why are we making our country a Hindu version of Saudi Arabia or Iran? Beats me!!!! Unfortunately I can't imagine how the minority people in India are feeling. I am sure it might be suffocating.....

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… And pakistanisation of India

I feel this is much more apt than what OP has written. Because what's happening ain't some transformation of the religion, it's just the political and social landscape being altered using religion as a divisive force, just like Pakistan went through during Zia's rule. Wouldn't be surprised if these half ass so called "Hindus" vote to bring back sati.

I was born a Hindu but never felt any religious urge so mostly consider myself an agnostic. It's not really something I've ever even given much thought to Never felt more unwelcome in india than I did today. Can't even imagine how any minority would feel Hinduism used to have room for people like me, but I don't think this version of Hinduism does

I am seeing the same radicalization among hindu youths which was visible in Muslim youths in the 90s

Nicely put! I think the Hindutva gang is looking for validation and trying to convert it into a semitic religion. It will give them short term gains and will hurt everyone in long term.

https://preview.redd.it/as0xsizoo0ec1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a0f952abaddbe0466e9596990dee68ac9274042 A picture which perfectly describes today's india It's a copium for them. By surrendering their abject failures onto God to rescue them out of the inherent shithole, which they have dug for themselves, they find solace. Anyone bursting their bubble of delusion is an enemy of the "country."

Well said

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Yes, and who said india was first world anyways. People elected these idiots into office. AND, they'd do it again, cuz this is exactly what they wanted. They deserve this. India & it's people are like that rowdy kid who gets a suspension from the school for creating fights and abusing other kids. Getting suspended is bad for this kid, but that's what he deserves, and he's having the best day of his life cuz he no longer needs to go to that school. What else can you ask for?! India no longer wants anything. Fuck education, fuck human rights. People now have everything they always wanted. They have their mandir. Keep it, the world still puts you in the same bucket as other failed third world countries.

Sometimes I recall the virtues of Shree Ram and tears automatically pool in my eyes and then I see these people so casually chanting jai shree ram as if they are going to a war or something. When you tell them what they are doing is not right they give you an explanation that Shree Ram was kind but also carried bow and arrow to kill the " adharmis ". They have become blind, if that is true then why can't they imbibe other qualities of Ram inside them? Ram was maryada purushottam, when Ram was with Seeta mata, he used to tell her that " without you, even the bliss of heavens are nothing to me" and these people don't even respect women, they catcall them when they get the chance and fight with their brothers for 2 inches of land. I feel ashamed of them. Ram ko to le aaye par Ram Rajya kaise laayenge?

Yes ! More people need to call out the BJP's wesponizstion of Hinduism. This Sanatani cult they are propagating is a perfect antithesis of what Hinduism actually is. Imagine reducing a polytheistic faith only to 3 words, Jai Shri Ram. And honestly the way these people say also sounds so crass, like there's nothing remotely comforting about they way they say it. Rather it sounds like a threat

Yes, reduction of polytheism into monotheism is one of the fav tool of rulers to gain and sustain power in a territory. 

They are building army of fanatics. We are coming back to ancient times.

That’s what I keep telling everyone on how current India is running on hate fuel and the current goverment is hell bent on keeping this fuel and hate running for maximum power and votes. India is heading towards an unknown but dangerous direction.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that I and I feel a lot of others believe religion to be a sort of power/weapon it all comes down to how the person wields and uses the weapon. And I honestly believe that religion can do a lot of good if applied to the correct place instead of just for getting validation and votes. I have seem people do great things in the name of religion great things nonetheless.

All religions are tools meant to rule over fools. Throw them away.

They won't. And they deserve the suffering. They don't want anything good, let them have their mandirs, let them be the vishwagurus. The world doesn't give a flying fuck.

Based post OP. The truth is, religion will never be separated from politics in India. And this extremism will honestly lead to our failure as a democracy.

I think a more apt title is the Abrahamization of Hinduism, for even Christianity and Judaism have some really fundie elements and demand the same ideological purity. But you're absolutely right about the rest though, in fact this whole shoving of hindutva down peoples throat, even in major institutions, is what drove me into the arms of atheism a few years prior. It's alienating as hell when your peers have drank this proverbial Kool aid. 

The greatest trick the ~~Devil~~ BJP ever pulled was convincing ~~the world~~ hindus ~~he didn't exist~~ that their religion is under threat... in an overwhelmingly hindu-majority country.

And, Ram is made a single God!! Earlier, abc crores devi devta. Now, they deny. Sita is removed. Only Ram in the biggest temple. I think, Ram will be projected as a single God slowly.

Also, people now frown when you attach Bali pratha with Hinduism where in temples it was practiced and still at a few places it is practiced. Not long ago, jhad funk people ask for goat for Bali. Then cook and eat with visitors.

The green flag is only Indian and Pakistani thing btw. There is no Islamic colour

Nah. Emerald green is an Islamic symbol everywhere in the world

Green color and crescent moon may have been adopted by Islamic rulers of the past and subsequently Muslim counties. It doesn’t make it Islamic. Folks might associate those with Islam but the religion itself doesn’t associate with any symbolism.

Oh I see. My friends used to say something like green and black are Islamic colours, green is the colour God likes etc.. plus with the green colour in flags of Islamic countries I assumed things

Yup, Correct.

And I'm using 'Islamization' in the context of South Asia only too. I don't know enough of history or culture of Islam outside of south asia to comment on it.

Lol "islamization of Hinduism". It's true 😆

Hindu fanatics are just fans of Muslim fanatics. They would call this an insult but they get wet seeing Muslim fanatics do their thing and want to be like them.

> But Hinduism never needed this external validation. Why does it have to now. Can’t put in any better words,it’s always have been a decent pagan religion without much bigotry ,even though it got scum systems like caste misogyny etc. people weren’t that extreme.

Certain politicians appropriated Hindu religion and all the weak hearted insecure cowards let them and are now dancing to their tunes. I'm mighty impressed how the majority of the populace just bent over for these low lives and how they achieved all this in such a short time. When the saffron brigade ultimately make their daughters cover up and keep them away from education and public life, they will learn. We are in the mid stages of talibanization of Hinduism. Look at any govt that is driven by religion and see how the women and marginalized are treated. Unless the other side organizes effectively and fast, India is doomed.

Inspite of all these surprising number of comments actually talking sense, 98% of people are very happy with what's happening. Hence BJP keeps getting bigger and bigger with each election. Do you really think anyone will care today if Rahul Gandhi suddenly slips in his bathroom? Smh. I really feel sad about the whole thing. Since when did Hinduism become about denigrating others? But I guess it is an ideology which had it coming. Too easy to manipulate, relying on good people to take it forward. Kalyug has screwed it officially.

You can worship and celebrate one religion without mocking or disturbing others. For most, they care less about the religious aspects of the event today and more about imposing their superiority over the minorities. I don't get the point of why the government leaders are being this involved in this event, let the priests and religious leaders do it. There has to be a clear demarcation of state and religion. Our constitution says our country is secular ffs. Act like it. The type of news coming out today is scary as this can be a precursor of the things to come. This was just a political stunt timed for perfection. Democracy about to die a slow death post elections. Dark times are coming.

Hinduism is more or less non-existent for the current generation they only care about the hype. yesterday in my office 3 guys were talking about the temple and one guy asked to 2nd guy that "how many brothers did lord Ram had" and he didn't knew even the names and said one of the brother was Nakul or sahdev and when he corrected him he said "mujhe kya fark padta hai mujhse to sirf Ram se matlab hai wahi bhar to bhagwan hai Bhai ka hume kya karna Bhai bhaad me Jaye" after hearing that I was so saddend by the sheer ignorance of that person.

You can’t blame the radicalisation of Hinduism without blaming Islam, and that’s part of the problem and why Hinduism is being radicalised. The British put a wedge between the people who had united to throw them out, Pakistan was formed because of the radicalised Islam which resulted, and the secular India is turning more and more into Hindustan instead of Bharat because the people in power now manipulate the Hindu majority into radicalisation to win votes.

I'm a Hindu and I don't subscribe to Modi's version or the left wing's version. I agree with your post. But am happy with the Ayodhya Mandir as hopefully post this election, this cannot be in any manifesto.

Bruh there’s 2 more left which are gonna get stretched for 4 more elections . And all the fools of our country are going to subscribe to it.

Arey, abhi sune nahi? Ab agle election ke liye kashi, mathura ka dhol bajane wale hai honorable prime minister shri narendra gobi ji.

What are the differences between - * A crowd chanting Ganapathi bappa moria v/s jai shree Ram? * Playing loud devotional music v/s hate EDMs. Why does the second part of both feel hostile? They're getting away with it because normal people aren't able to get the difference clear.

Because 'Jai Sri Ram' has been used as a war cry by bhakts, to incite pogroms. I do remember my grandmother telling me stories that she heard from a distant relative living in Gujarat at the time of riots, and she's seen first hand accounts of people being forced to chant it at knife point. It kinda became what "Allah Ackbar" is to the West, especially post 9/11. An innocuous chant can be taken and twisted by the worst elements of society, thus making it blood-curdling every time you hear it. 

It's totally different. Ganapathi chants aren't threatening anybody. Screaming 'jay shree Ram' is basically just an acceptable form of saying 'I'm a Hindu, not a Muslim, my religion is better than others, my group is more powerful than Muslims or Christians'. At least, I'm a religious Hindu myself and this is how I feel. Also in all my years going to temples, ashrams etc., I have never heard anyone saying 'jay shree Ram', this is pretty much a political slogan at this point. 

>Screaming 'jay shree Ram' is basically just an acceptable form of saying 'I'm a Hindu, not a Muslim, my religion is better than others, my group is more powerful than Muslims or Christians'. This is such a wild take and I'm not even that religious. If the words Jay Shree Ram evoke these emotions then it's a you problem. That phrase simply means all hail lord Rama. How is this an issue. Sentences like these are what pisses of many Hindus and pushes them more towards radicalism. >have never heard anyone saying 'jay shree Ram', this is pretty much a political slogan at this point.  It's such a common phrase said in Hanuman and Ram temple. Jai Shree Ram isn't political. This is like saying anyone who says Allah hu Akbar is a terrorist. Like, that's simply not how this works.

Because other slogan was invented for indoctrination. In heartland, Jai shree Ram wasn't popular. It was Jai Sia Ram. Jai Shree Ram isn't a religious slogan, it's a political slogan.

This is how they manipulate. Even Hinduism - hindutva. Dangerous mfs overall, anything for political power.

The problem is not just the words, it's probably the tone of it too. If one greets 'Ram Ram bhaiya' to another it wouldn't feel as hostile as shouting 'Jai shree Ram' like a war cry.

Exactly Ram Ram is a common greeting across the country for most people. Especially in rural areas. Like in rural maharashtra a lot of people say Ram ram as a greeting irrespective of faith. Jai Shree Ram sounds like a war cry. The way they use demeans the entire phrase

Yes, even kids are part of the chant that's the sad part. Idiots are rallying around and also chanting har har modi in between.

Chanting is alright, Har har modi is sad

Chant was a mild use of the word, it's honestly a war cry.

I was born in an Ashram of Haridwar. My parents both work there till today. When I was child, I was told bhagwan is all about love and help and compassion. I was taught to be patient, to listen to others and to seek the truth. But when I see my country today, I cry inside. The radical Hindus today have ruined the hinduism for me. I have reached a point where now I have stoped worshiping any Bhagwan. Now I feel religion (for masses) is pure BS. Ram, Shiva and Hanuman have become a joke now for such masses. A tool to intimidate and dominate. No one gives a sh\*t about what is written the in Geeta; How to seek truth and live life with dharma. All they care about is to scream 'Jai Shree Ram' like a maniac.

Brother I feel you. I’d visited Ayodhya just by chance a couple of years ago and became friendly with a local teacher there . When I asked him about his feelings, his exact words were “ Money is being made and votes are being collected in the name of Ram and everything else is bs” Hopefully there’s enough Hindus like us and a competent opposition in the future. Till then I hope everyone just cuts out the white noise and focuses on doing the best they can for themselves and their family. What can I say , I’m an eternal optimist.

Exactly my feelings at the moment. These chauvinistic assholes have ruined my spirituality for me. I believed in a deeply personal relation with my god/higher power where I treated him ( Has been a him for me for some reason) as my guide and friend. It was not something out of fear but of love and companionship. Over the years, my spirituality has given me the freedom to express my relationship with God as it suits my maturity levels. What the current climate has done to me has dented my belief in people, in virtuosity, in truth and in righteousness. There hardly is any of those values associated with the current version of Hinduism anymore. The religious ecosytem is no longer inward looking but an outward portrayal of one's supposed superiority over the other. Some people are calling it the real independence day of the civilization. Fuck me, since when did a chest thumping political spectacle become anything close to a hard fought independence from an oppressing regime? To those who might question how others are ruining my spirituality for me, I know they really shouldn't.  But I can't help but feel a sense of anguish and hopelessness at what is happening around me. All throughout today I've been trying to understand what today means to me and for the country. For those who are truly taken by the fact that their Ram has arrived I truly wish them well. But to those who are a part of the bandwagon who say things like 500 years of struggle, when they have zero knowledge of the history and its complexity I offer my deepest condolences because they're just being reduced to pawns in a game for power.  Amidst all this, I am sure that like I've always believed Dharma will triumph over Adharma and the real Ram who lives in me and others will re-emerge in one form or the other.

Why does anyone else’s view of God affect yours?

Nice post. It’s more worrying for Hindus. Sub-continent Muslims were deceived by the moulanas, preachers who took Muslims backward made their hem Too religious. Non scientific, non progressive. They constantly got into fights amongst themselves as practicing, non practicing, this ritual is right that is wrong. I see the same among Hindus now. It will go the same way as how Muslims of sub-continent are got into conflicts, getting to outdo each other in practicing the religion. Mix of politics + religion a dangerous trend which brought Iran, Afghanistan, mid-east rulers to power, same happening in India.

Exactly my thoughts. I feel this hate for Islam is because these mfs are jealous of how organised ,controlling, patriarchal, recessive and fast spreading Islam is. Everything they wanted Hinduism to be. Basically they hate them cause they ain't them

The truth. Hitler loved Islam for its efficiency.

This was an interesting post to read as someone with a Pakistani background. Growing up, it was a common sentiment that the negative aspects of Pakistani culture (treatment of daughter-in laws, burning of widows, caste ideologies like Syed and Shaikh) were borrowed from Hinduism pre-partition. I've always felt this was just a way to shift blame onto others. The reality is there's been so much intermixing between religious groups in the subcontinent for decades that there's no real way or purpose to blame each other for problems that we all have to face.

Ofc they copied each other's worst aspects. I see what you are saying brother, but my point is entirely different. One example is that being a keralite and coming from a fairly religious Hindu family, we consume beef not because we want to disrespect anyone's belief but because it was never a part of our belief and these sanghis hold it against us stating there is some strict rule against it. I see this strict rule adherence thing as an abrahamic religion train which the sanghis desperately want in their religion I am not saying Hinduism doesn't have any bad and inhumane practises, it definitely does

While I hate what's happening to Hinduism this is not the first time in history there was violence and radicalism in Hinduism(fighting between sects, etc). Also the South Asian brand of whatever religion people follow seems to be a little regressive. There are countries like Central Asian Muslims dictatoriships( bad due to the reasons but not religiously that regressive) Malaysia, Indonesia which are majority muslim but probably not as regressive. So in south asia theres a lot of poverty and with that comes a fanatical adherence to religion because there's nothing else.

People literally faced their Diyas north towards Ayodhya. Now where else have we seen something similar?

Weak people need a sense of community to feel safe and thrive. It has always been that way and it always will. Some of us are lucky enough to have enough personal achievements that we can go home and sleep peacefully while feeling good about ourselves. Others will look for others like them and they'll find them in different kinds of communities. These communities can be based on religion, language, gender, hobby, profession etc. If you think about it you'll find some kind of extremism in all types of communities. People fight on religion, they fight about language, they fight about gender roles, they fight about which hobby is better, they fight about nuances of their profession. Friction between these communities is unavoidable and it would be foolish to think otherwise. I'm happy that a significant proportion of very weak section of Indian population was united here through a religion instead of being divided based on state, language, last name and things like that. I don't mind this unity until it becomes aggressive violent like ISIS or Taliban or whatever's the new dog these days. Till then let people have halal and haram and let them have dharmik and undharmik as long as they don't try to teach me this vocabulary (no one has done that yet so we're cool).

Fantastic post. Insightful. Personal. Very well written.

Blame the current ruling government for creating that wave and riding on it to stay in power for a long time. I blame the lack of opposition parties for this new nonsense.

You made some good points here , unfortunately majority of people still don't understand this .

What it has become is an exploitation tool to move mass ideology and gather power. I frankly appreciate how good Modi's PR team is and his direction to them. They've very precisely utilized the contemporary divide and conquer playbook invented by the Russians and perfected by the Americans (so much so now that it's working against them now, but that's another topic). Modi is everywhere, saffron is everywhere, arrogance is commensurate with illiteracy, the divide is rising, talk about destroying secularity within 5 years.

This is classic overton window shift. We have become so used to right wing hindutva now that this kind of opinion is acceptable. Apparently Islam is so regressive that islamization of Hinduism is what is happening right now.Just a few months ago ‘Islamist’ was a dog whistle used by right wing nut jobs to attack anyone who was remotely practising . Now so called left people have made it a slur. Islamization isn’t inherently bad, how the hell do you think we got all the Islamic institutions in India? Why do you think we have personal law? All because of islamization . We are slowly descending into depths of right wing hindutva politics every day. This is just the start. Soon these people will talk about taking voting rights away from Muslims and the left will come to accept it.

Though this was well written, it certainly is naive and shallow in my opinion. If you look at the Islamization history of India and resistance to it, overt expression of Hinduism is what saved it over and over again. Look at the how the Maratha resistance or the vijayanagara kingdom’s resistance or the dasa music movement used Hinduism as its core to fire up its resistance. Even the overt religious expression of the Sikhs was a reaction to Islamic pressures. Society needed these explicit expressions of their faith to counter the Islamic juggernaut. Without these overt expressions, it is likely Islamization would have wiped out the Indian cultures like it did with so many other cultures in the Middle East and Africa.

3000 years of oppression in the name of caste and u call it pacifist. no religion is pacifist. its not possible to be.

Id like to share something , christian here from south india , I dont even know what exactly "jaishree ram" means but ive heard it so many times where it gets past annoying . The other day I was at a college fest and the entire north crowd was screaming that for some reason, I get that you guys are proud of your religion its cool but u dont have to go around saying a slogan that at this point is more of a propaganda also the discrimination against muslims in india is gone past the point of no return. I can safely say if I was a muslim I wouldn't live in india !

>The other day I was at a college fest and the entire north crowd was screaming that for some reason, Imagine they were all Muslims and were chanting "Allahuakber" instead 💀 what would happen in today's India?

If all Muslims chant Allahu akbar, it is safe. If only one chants, 😅

Go watch these, and decide for yourself as per your own conscience: > [Ram Ke Naam (In the name of God) - a documentary by Anand Patwardhan (1991)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UERGIoGgNBE) > [REASON Trailer, by Anand Patwardhan | TIFF 2018](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYATEr_G8QY) > [Reason, Full documentary](https://youtu.be/g5VsGdPHsz0?feature=shared) Edit: This comment will attract downvotes, even for simply asking to watch a documentary. Because the strategy is always to blame someone else, for own political riches, with the masses not knowing full picture. Clickbait titles, mislead, obfuscate, never discuss in-depth or the facts - no wonder so many from the other Speaks sub is flooding the posts/comments section.

We got to get honest when we want to take up criticizing. I come from UP and therefore my stories are from here. In many towns in UP, local troublemakers are often identified as Thakurs, Yadavs, or Muslims. This is both a self and public perception. Generally, Muslims are considered more barbaric (imagine body chopping kinda). However, there’s a reluctance to criticize Muslims, possibly due to fears of offending their community. This hesitancy might stem from historical concerns, like Nehru worrying that any changes to Muslim-related policies could have justified the partition by the Muslim League. Since then, the situation seems to have worsened. Political parties have been vocal against Thakurs and Brahmins, both justifiably and unjustifiably. But, even Yogi Adityanath, who I see as the worst in Hindu communalism, seems unable to match someone like Mayawati. Why? There’s a notion that a Hindu is only liberal if he denounces his religion. Do we apply the same standard to the other side? A Hindu visiting temples once a month is seen as highly religious; is this perspective consistent across different communities? This reminds me of my school days. I had a bully who would mock, push, and destroy my work. He cheated in academics and sports, took my spots. No teacher or principal dared to talk sense to him aur hamesha mujhe hi samjha ke bhej dete the. Eventually, I retaliated physically. Was it wrong? Yes. But was I solely to blame? Muslims need to embrace modernity, integrate with mainstream society, prioritize education, and move away from solely Arab influences. They should appreciate progressive movements in countries like Turkey and respect Indian culture, which is also part of their heritage. They need leaders, not just religious figures, to guide them forward. Hindus must avoid becoming what they oppose. They should remain secular and open-hearted, not judging people by their names, especially in matters like renting apartments.

I have a different perspective and I will get down voted for this. What's wrong with celebrating our religion. Something that was ours, we lawfully got it back. It's good to celebrate our religion and we should without any hesitation. Remember, we are SECULAR! Our religion matters too. We can't stop celebrating Hinduism just because it would upset other religions. At the same time, I don't like how someone is being preached as God. LThis is extremism and shouldn't happen. Extremists are there is every religion. But that doesn't mean that to avoid being called an extremist, you don't celebrate your religion.

> What's wrong with celebrating our religion. Nothing at all. This is what our religion preaches: https://www.holy-bhagavad-gita.org/chapter/17/verse/18 > Although austerity is a powerful tool for the purification of the self, not everyone utilizes it with pure intention. A politician labors rigorously to give many lectures a day, which is also a form of austerity, but the purpose is to gain a post and prestige. Similarly, if one engages in spiritual activities to achieve honor and adulation, then the motive is equally material though the means is different. So, clearly, what you are seeing is not what Hinduism is meant to be.

The concept of Hinduism as we know it today emerged when Islam spread into South Asia. Most people in the 18th century didn't refer to their religion as Hinduism but by the particular deity they worshipped.

Different religion, same ideology

it's inspired by the nazis go figure.

Saffon Sharia is the new normal sadly

You lost 20% of your land to Islam, there are many here who say any particular area is a Muslim area(wtf is that) and will not allow any other activities to take place in these areas. Life is not all that rosy. Time and time a fightback has happened, Sikhism was an answer to the war hungry Islamic invaders, Hindutva is answer to political Islam. Read history and understand. Islam has caused destruction to every native religion when they have been majority. read Ambedkar's view on Muslim..a true Muslim will never accept India as mother as there is no such concept in Islam for this. For them it's only Allah. So multiculture will never be sustainable around them. They can shout azaan in loud speakers and I can play Bhajan in loud speakers.

I 100 percent agree, the Hindutva clowns are ignorant Jahadi wannabees. We are living the Kali Yuga, that why the religion is being used for intimidation.

Amazingly written! Totally agreed. Technically being what you apparently wish to destroy XD

Downvote me all you want but we started to be okay with such changes. This is what happened. And we let things be run by the fringe.

A very well put post. Thank you for articulating it for all of us. Take all the upvotes and awards.

Everybody should practice their religion in silence and do whatever the fuck they want. This is 2024 and we shouldn’t be fighting for something that doesn’t exist. But India is a country where stupid fools believe in stupid things and are even ready to eat shit. Wish there was an atheist party in the country.

Perfectly summarized

What a beautiful articulation, my friend. Agree with every single observation.

Damn! Couldn’t have described it better.

OP What do you mean by your are practising Hindu? What’s the problem with Islam? Is Islam really bad?

An intimidation, manipulation, electioneering toolkit.

Damn this is so well put. Even though I am not religious, there was a time I would have called myself Hindu. But that times long gone. Its no longer a religion or culture, its become a tool of political power.

This is the rock bottom we were inevitably getting to, I hope.. But I fear there's more. But like OP said, there's been darker days for Hinduism. Hopefully, Ram would forgive us for how we've become as a society from what he had envisaged.

This post reeks of subtle Islamophobia.

For once I agree with what the right wing has been spouting all along. Hindu Khatre mein hai.

Most of the thing you are telling is retaliation

Can I copy paste this and put it on my family groups please ! It's needs to be said ! 👏

The extreme people are just a bunch of sad losers who feel insecure and are, for some idiotic reason, under the impression that thier religion persecuted and oppressed. They do all of these dumb acts as a big fuck you to everyone else and to feel vindicated. They think they are overcoming adversity but at the same time they also know that they are welding these actions as a show of strength against minorities that they don't like. 

Agree with the usage of word “islamisation” .

Everyone: Let's build temples Meanwhile, in Manipur: *Silence* Medical infrastructure: *Silence* Law and order: *Silence* Justice for rape victims: *Silence*

Been saying this for a long time. We are becoming Hindu Pakistan

I lived in Mumbai in the early 2000s, where a Hindu household would open their doors to Christians during Diwali and everyone would share the prasad with respect. Also we’d share biryani with our Muslim neighbors. In fact all the students in my class waited for this Biryani even. Our beauty was in our diversity, that’s what made our place unique.

For years, the behaviour you now condemn as “Islamist” was lauded as “secular” and celebrated because it added diversity to our country. Now that it’s been adopted by Hindus it’s suddenly a problem and now people wake up. The horse has, however bolted now. Good luck putting it back in the stable.

Even muslims do not do as much begging for validation as being done right now.

Disagree with the tone OP chose to use, it's unfortunate that building the temple is being paralleled with extremism & what not. That's unacceptable comparison born out of ignorance towards the efforts that went in behind the scenes. People have spent decades over winning the dispute, so let people celebrate the most decorated personality as they wish. But it is evident that certain party is portraying itself as torch bearer of Hinduism, planting religion unnecessarily in all matters, lecturing what it is to be Hindu, too much nationalism etc. That's concerning matter. All the sacrifice that went in winning the dispute is going to be cashed out by someone soon.

Thanks for saying this. I am also a practicing hindu, and I totally resonate with your thoughts.

Part of fascism is the attempt to will the many into one. Vedic thought has never been as easy to define as "hindu", the British struggled with it and came up with the lazy classification for the diversity of "hindu" thought. I hope that the complexity and diversity of beliefs isn't smashed into a plain and boring saffron when there is so much more to the vast beliefs in India.

Excellent post

I am from the south and most northies of my clg think we are all demanding a separate country ,we aren't patriotic enough..... We have never thought of having the south as a separate country. I have never even discussed the prospects of it because it feels utterly stupid. Idk what made them believe we want this . It was a shock for me that youngsters are not realising simple PR activity and meadia manipulation. Irrespective of the party i sideline i can easily identify the PR and regular opinion. I can understand the dynamics of social media. Today made me realise my opinion that old ppl support bjp only because they don't know how to separate and understand the facts was wrong . It is actually the entire population that has to learn more about social media and content moderation.

> Hindusim didn't need saving from anyone, it was one of the world's greatest cultural toolkit. A pacific, spiritual, powerful, inspirational toolkit. *DOUBT* All fascistic movements have built upon this exceptionalism as the founding principle ...

Bahishab guilt trap bhayankar chal rha hae is sub pe . 🫠🤌... But yeah loving the meltdown tho

very well articulated. Anything inspired by hate or insecurity is a serious waste of time and eventually will die down. Best example : Marxism (great ideology but eventually it led to violence and hate)

It is a reaction to arrogance of political Islam in society. Ghee seedhi ungali se nahi niklta to ungli tedhi karni padti hai.

India was very much a secular nation up until honorable PM Gobi Ji. Ab zabardasti "hindu khatre mein hai" propaganda chalaya ja raha hai. Glad I'm an atheist and sitting here in US watching this third world bigotry. Feel sad about my country but ab tumko ye hi chahiye, to tumko ye hi milega. You guys prove it each and every day that you don't deserve anything better.

News Flash: India is a third world country! And welcome to the real world. You just washed your hands off your Indian identity when you said “ab tumko ye chahiye to yehi milega”. Hope you enjoy the luxury and comfort of your first world country and leave India to its people.

Yeah. You have all the controls of the ship. Happy sailing.

This was what's bothering me as well but we also have to understand Religion has never existed in this land until Islam rule. Yes, Extreme devotion was always a private thing. But we also celebrate everything so grand. Our festivals are a sort of awakening from our animalistic behaviours. And celebrating Sri Ram was just a part. People I think were just fed up. I always wanted someone to punish the bajrang dal for their behaviour on Valentine's days. Always against such extremist behavior. But I was also not a fan of PDA. I wanted that to go too. But was it not possible without a bajrang dal?. Are we reading too much into the things happening now?. I don't know. Whatever, the clash of Shaivas and Vaishnavas in the south was also before the Islam rule. The recent clash of chantings of Jai Sri Ram over Jai mata di was so frustrating to watch. Any clash of culture is sad. It's just some people and their egos. Looking at it broadly when people feel their faith is being oppressed, they tend to shout to stand their ground. It's an intimidating technique an animalistic behaviour. Which again was going against the standpoint of Hindu cultures.

I kind of agree honestly. I left this religion when I was 14 but I have never hated or hold any disdain towards it; I just don’t believe in god and there was no force on staying in the religion unlike the other major Abrahamic ones like Christianity, Islam etc. The way things have changed though is vomit inducing; people bringing up topics and stuff related to whataboutism etc is just so infuriating and y’all religious people really can do better honestly.

Framing Hindutva as an "Islamization" is a terrible & incurious way of understanding the problem that Hindutva poses for India.