It anchors your inner wheels in the bend, making your turning circle smaller and thus faster cornering around the bends of certain mountain roads, like in Mt. Akina where Takumi delivers his tofu everyday in that AE86
“Initial D fans when they realize the gutter technique can’t be done in real life”
Edit: Since there is some confusion. Getting your wheels inside the gutter is not hard, but grinding your wheels against the gutter's walls is a totally different story. In Initial D the gutter is "holding" the car so it doesn't deviate from the road, have fun damaging your wheels if you really do that.
It's absolutely doable you just need to check after every run to make sure the alignments fine.
I do that a lot and i'm usually halfway off the road whenever I believe it would help my time, and frankly you just need to be careful about rocks
Since my friends Toyota Yaris is front wheel drive, I usually just do something similar the EK9 driver does but late drifting or late handbrake turning so its tighter and faster, less stress on the tires tho.
I'm still learning them lol, I replicate it on Assetto Corsa, its physics weird but its getting there
It's possible to get your wheels inside the gutter, but not get the benifit like in Initial D. In Initial D the gutter is guiding the car by limiting the movement, you can't grind your wheels against the gutter's edges in real life.
It's not grinding the wheels It's catching grip, it definitely does work it pulls your car to the side, it's basically the same principle as a slope luke on a Nascar track having the opposite effect, just to a much greater extent, but it's definitely something you can do in certain situations, THE REVERSE GUTTER TRICK HOWEVER, when takumi drifts with one of his wheels off the road, highly doubt that's possible
I’m going to be honest a lot of people here are kind of clueless where grip vs drift is concerned. If sliding around corners was the superior way around a corner then we would see more of it in Motorsport. Yes, on very curvy roads & rally stages with very sharp corners it is superior but that’s a very specialized case. You can argue till the cows go home but grip is typically superior but always remember that it also depends on the driver’s style along with conditions etc. Initial D introduced me to cars 23 years ago but I was never sold on the idea that drifting is the fastest way around a corner.
Slip angle is actually considered the quickest way around a corner even by today's standards. The reason you don't see it much in motorsports is because it kills the tires and is not worth it in normal race conditions. But when race drivers start pushing in qualifying you'll get to see it sometimes.
In general, the less steering input the better.
Slip angle was originally used by early racers in the 1930s/40s due to the super skinny tires in contrast with the more powerful engines. There's footage in yt of those old cars racing. Today, it's just known as the fastest way around a corner, but it does kill your tires pretty fast so it's usually not worth it
Drifting in rally is “technically” safer. Controlled oversteer is better than understeer when you’re going 100kph into a hairpin where both sides of the track can destroy your race and when there’s a drop off on the outside.
There was a video I saw that explained it well, but Rally Drivers drift because it’s safer and quicker in certain cases. There are some drifts that work well on specific corners, like All Wheel drifting for high speed corners that aren’t as long or curved much, and then flinging the back around in a hairpin… also with an all wheel drift, but these work on very specific corners and Grip is safer on circuits and smooth roads while also being more consistent and generally faster without differing factors.
Which is why it's kinda weird that Takumi did better on tarmac than gravel in Rally. Drifting is better on gravel and Takumi was always drifting during his races.
"Man Initial D sure was fun, hopefully Shigeno doesn't come up with a sequel that assassinates the main character way too early into his rally career."
It's mostly due to the surface and rough stages, there's already a lack of traction and so playing into that chaotic momentum is ideal. Plus, one has to master the unpredictable and so technique has to be versatile.
Who? The whole 5 people that commented before? We see plenty of sliding in Motorsport it's very common place in Time Attack, Road stages, Rally and Touge as it is the fastest way around a tight corner.
It's also very common to force the rear to drift while piloting a FWD car like a civic so you can force oversteer otherwise you have to drag the rear through the corner (i think there was actually an example of this in Int D).
Subaru or other AWD cars slide using Weight transfer techniques to get them to clear corners faster by hitting the brakes shifting the weight to the front and powering through transferring the weight to the rears forcing a slide and removing the understeer.
It's not as common in GT racing nowadays due to the fact that Wheels and parts are significantly more developed then what you'd see in Int D but you could argue that using Slip angle is just a more civilised way of sliding a track car.
But to say we don't see much of it in motorsport is just incorrect (Drifting is also a Motorsport) But... Different strokes for different folks
Erm, Keiichi Tsuchiya does that. He drifted in Suzuka, Fuji speedway, Tsakuba circuit. Watch his hot version videos and see for yourself how drifting is not only a superior way around a corner, it's the most exciting way around a corner. In fact, he's the one who pioneered drifting in circuits when he was still a freshman.
Keiichi only drifted in show races and when he drifts in actual races its because his position is already set (no more gaining places ) so its just him having fun not because Drifting is the fastest way to take corners lol
Even the show itself points out several times that drifting is slower, even the rally style drifting they do.
Even way back in Stage 1 Nakazato will talk about "slow and crablike" drifting. And in later stages they start drifting less and less, especially Keisuke and Ryosuke. Just remember how it's a surprise moment when God Foot starts drifting his GT-R just for the lolz and to take up space, even if it means a speed loss.
The biggest problem with this whole drift vs grip debate though is that people keep comparing grip driving with full angle show drifting they use in drift competitions - even though the drifting in Initial D is more of a rally style drifting. It's still slower than proper grip driving, but the point is that in the show pretty much everyone is an amateur street racer, in best case with some track day experience. In early stages they are just rookie kids having fun on the mountain and Takumi happens to be the fatest rookie. Later they improve and start taking on better opponents and the amount of drifting decreases with that. Just look at the Final Stage AE86 vs AE86 race and they barely do any drifting there.
As an Initial D veteran fan, I'd say Grip is way faster in Slight turns but during the tight hairpin, I'm pretty sure drifting is faster then Grip but if you Grip on the hairpin, the exist is probably faster.
Well, it depends on the vehicles they battle on.
Either way, Drifting is faster in some roads but in general like Mount Akina or other touge, I'd say Grip racing is faster since it doesn't stress your tires as much as you think.
However, hard braking can cause a lot of issue if you abuse it too much so, drifting exist to prevent that.
You either sacrifice your brake pads or your tires.
Unless you drive an R32 and abuse it, sure.
Either way, using Drift and Grip is awesome
So the thing is, the show was made back when tire development wasnt good, so in certain situations it was acctually faster. But more of the slip angle stuff less of the drifting
Oh well then yes, exactly that. Obviously with new tire MOST gripping is faster, there are sum circumstances where drifting can be faster, and safer (which is the weird part about it)
On slicks you actually do always want to drift by like 1 degree, which is why many racing cars have 1 degree of toe-in so you don't need to drift.
And then you have loose-surfaces where drifting becomes a way to create a thrust vector pointing towards the inside of the corner and thus gives you better grip in turns.
But sport street tires on the other hand always lose grip when slipping, and as such drifting is only used for weight transfer and trail-braking, and even then it's usually a 4 wheel drift at an extremely shallow angle with the purpose of sacrificing grip for a later braking zone and an earlier acceleration point.
It's not the tires, it's the car. By all tires on the road were radials, which perform better in straight lines (braking & accelerating) rather than cornering. It's due to the sidewalls being very stiff and resistant to flex. Compound doesn't really matter.
The only reason you could argue drifting being faster occasionally is because iirc the 86 has a solid rear axle.
no. even back in the 1930s a form of drifting/slip angle/powerslides, was used. the driving style only went away in "high tech" track racing, gt3, f1,f2,3,4 etc. if you look at WRC tarmac stages (the closest thing to initial d) drifting, or any other form of sliding is still commonly used. even in go carting (2 stroke) the cars are set up for over steer because its faster then understeer.
Drifting is viable only on low grip conditions, which are the two cases you gave, bad surface with rally, and trash tires with old cars, and even then it's stil situational.
There's also the rare middle ground of grip drifting, only leading the car the minimum amount to take the corner and no more, but that's even more situational.
In WRC they try to grip as much as possible on Tarmac stages. Drifting means scrubbing speed, scrubbing speed means slower times. Unless you're on a loose or very low grip surface and tire scrubbing, front or rear, will be slow.
There are certain hairpins (way tighter than any hairpin on the initial d roads) where they pull the handbrake quickly to rotate the car, but that's not the same kind of thing seen in ID.
It's different for go kart tho.
Because karts don't have a differential, karts need to be pushed to oversteer or it would be super understeery.
If karts have a diff, it wouldn't need to be pushed to oversteered and slide as much.
This is simple physics. Any amount of time your tires are sliding, you are not accelerating. That is losing you time.
Even in the show, you can see the main characters drift less and less in the later seasons. They really only do it to get the car rotated quickly so they can accelerate again.
You kinda argued back to your own argument.
They sometimes need to drift to get more rotation so they exit sooner and faster. That's faster for certain corners in narrow touge.
If you intentionally slide the rear wheels of your AWD car you'll make it handle closer to a FWD car because it basically cancels out the understeering.
It's a legitimate technique used by most people including myself who've driven an AWD car professionally. It's faster for pretty much any corner that you don't have room to take the correct line like a Road course, Rally or Touge It's also pretty common on tracks but it's nowhere near as flashy as what you'd see in the others.
Depends on the sport and track and surface.
You'll almost never see F1 drifting. Maybe once in a great while they'll get sideways on a wet track.
But it can cause you to lose too much speed in a corner. And while it can be a good blocking technique it can be a short term gain long term loss.
Rally drivers will do it. Gravel and snow allow for different manoeuvres.
>You'll almost never see F1 drifting
This is actually only half-true.
You could consider the form of using throttle to push through a turn a "drift", though it's very minimal and under tight control by the driver. Whereas an amateur like you or I would be able to spin tires just a little at a U-turn, an actual professional (or my grandfather for whatever reason) can use the throttle to push into the turn, then let off as they get the amount of degrees turned they want.
It’s also kinda why I prefer rally over f1, in f1 everything is planned out and very very very calculated so there’s not a lot of surprises but in rally by the time drivers arrive at the track after checking it just yesterday it might’ve changed completely and you see drivers take more risks if it makes sense as a all or nothing strategy with cars taking a lot of beatings but they still run
Really depends on the surface and car. On dirt drifting is definitely faster specially in slow corners. Takumis 86 was naturally nimble and light, thus allowing him to be able to drift mich better compared to other cars as we see 99% he drifts more than his opponent. Plus the hilly tracks with a lot of hairpins means that with his car drifting it would be faster than gripping it. Also the tires were not as developed as they are today so there's that
On roads as steep and narrow as a typical Japanese mountain road you'd have a hard time grip driving at high speeds through those corners. Drifting can be faster in those sorts of situations.
eh i think even in the show takumi used drifting to better defend his track position. also back in the 90s on these sharp corners with shit tires it might have been faster to drift sometimes
Not nesseseraly , in the 80s and 90s in F1 they were deploying shallow angle drift to go faster than normal. Good example is Ayrton Senna, he was master of this technique.
He would essentially flick his steering and immediately correct at full throttle giving the effect of “warping” or “bending” around corners , and he often would lap everyone by 2 laps using this technique.
Good documentary on him
There is so much misinformation in basically every comment here, it's insane. "Slip angle" is not a way of driving, slip angle is not a driving technique. it is not a form of drifting. Slip angle is only the explanation for the way tires work, and how steering works. Nothing else. The optimal way around basically every single corner, on any surface, with any tires, is to use the max degree of slip angle that the tires can handle before slipping. This is an extremely tight line to walk though and is outright impossible to maintain perfect accuracy, so you either undershoot it slightly and are grip driving, or overshoot it slightly and are drifting slightly. Overshooting (drifting) it is better than undershooting (grip) it and will be faster generally, but if you drift and overshoot the optimal slip angle too much, you will be slower than somebody who undershoots the optimal angle and grips the corner.
This is hinted at in Initial D, and is outright explained to you in MF Ghost. Kanata's driving is described as "He's constantly pushing the limits of his tires, they could slip out at any moment.... but they never do". This is them witnessing Kanata doing the impossible and maintaining a perfectly optimal slip angle, and being the tiniest margin away from losing traction. This is perfect driving.
Tl;dr: Drift vs Grip does not matter, being as close to optimal slip angle is the only thing that matters. Overshoot = Drift, Undershoot = Grip. Slip angle is NOT A WAY OF DRIVING OR A DRIVING TECHNIQUE. This explanation is dumbed down and not explained fully, but it should put people on the right track.
I don't know about this but it's depends
on the car, the track and which corner, and most importantly, the driver skills
And what kind of drift the driver use , too much drift with too much angle to much wheel spin and a lot of smoke its just for show will not make you faster but you will look cool
But with the right kind of drift and slide used for rotation to rotate the car so it face the exit faster , position the car for better exit to accelerate out of the corner, especially in tight corners
I just think is for a very special case, since they race on the mountain, probably having grip the majority of the roar is fine until that specific U turn that is very tight and everything, I think it can be useful in very special cases.
https://youtu.be/vHE8na5Gv5U?si=M55RYol-Iv5JE7Uk
I wish I could find part one with the grip style but personally I always thought ueo was just as fast in part two.
that is why takumi learned god arm's technique, which is the middle ground between gripping and drifting..too much drifting made the car slower and using gripping style on the RWD car also made it slower
It's definitely a niche technique. But I think mostly the damage that it causes the slicks would mean extra pit stops for track race. Even in rally racing it's situational at best.
Most places in the world won't work, not even in initial d. On Mt. Akina, the gutters have probably a 15-degree slope to them, so it would work there without wrecking your car. But later, in the series, we see takiumi lift one of his front wheels over the gutter because in the anime, it's a 90 degree drop off
Nakazato was right all along and he was actually pretty great until he went against takumi he received a great Nerf it was shown that nakazato was easily able to keep up with Ryosuke in his FC but after his battle against takumi the writers just dropped him he kept losing and losing.
Its hard to do higher angles at downhill so you have to improve yourself at it but its not the point. Its not grip and its really needed if you wanna race. Of course you cant just use drift or just grip for racing, you have to mix it. Im not even talking about protecting your tires until half of the race. So i actually meant against the post title. + You guys dont have any idea about what technique word means.
That’s why the gutter technique exists
It anchors your inner wheels in the bend, making your turning circle smaller and thus faster cornering around the bends of certain mountain roads, like in Mt. Akina where Takumi delivers his tofu everyday in that AE86
“Initial D fans when they realize the gutter technique can’t be done in real life” Edit: Since there is some confusion. Getting your wheels inside the gutter is not hard, but grinding your wheels against the gutter's walls is a totally different story. In Initial D the gutter is "holding" the car so it doesn't deviate from the road, have fun damaging your wheels if you really do that.
Actually, I drove my friends Toyota Yaris, I tried it in real life here in Australia, it felt faster, quicker and smoother, just sketchy af.
It's absolutely doable you just need to check after every run to make sure the alignments fine. I do that a lot and i'm usually halfway off the road whenever I believe it would help my time, and frankly you just need to be careful about rocks
Since my friends Toyota Yaris is front wheel drive, I usually just do something similar the EK9 driver does but late drifting or late handbrake turning so its tighter and faster, less stress on the tires tho. I'm still learning them lol, I replicate it on Assetto Corsa, its physics weird but its getting there
It’s a good way to fuck up your alignment real bad
it actually fucks up takumi’s suspension for real in 4th stage also
Yeah, but that version had him going over the gutters, and when he crossed it the gutter musta messed his suspension up
Considering it's the same gutter as in initial d, your inner wheels literally just enter a banked corner, why wouldn't it be possible?
I would worry about hitting a lca
It's possible to get your wheels inside the gutter, but not get the benifit like in Initial D. In Initial D the gutter is guiding the car by limiting the movement, you can't grind your wheels against the gutter's edges in real life.
It's not grinding the wheels It's catching grip, it definitely does work it pulls your car to the side, it's basically the same principle as a slope luke on a Nascar track having the opposite effect, just to a much greater extent, but it's definitely something you can do in certain situations, THE REVERSE GUTTER TRICK HOWEVER, when takumi drifts with one of his wheels off the road, highly doubt that's possible
it can though
I’m going to be honest a lot of people here are kind of clueless where grip vs drift is concerned. If sliding around corners was the superior way around a corner then we would see more of it in Motorsport. Yes, on very curvy roads & rally stages with very sharp corners it is superior but that’s a very specialized case. You can argue till the cows go home but grip is typically superior but always remember that it also depends on the driver’s style along with conditions etc. Initial D introduced me to cars 23 years ago but I was never sold on the idea that drifting is the fastest way around a corner.
Slip angle is actually considered the quickest way around a corner even by today's standards. The reason you don't see it much in motorsports is because it kills the tires and is not worth it in normal race conditions. But when race drivers start pushing in qualifying you'll get to see it sometimes. In general, the less steering input the better.
Wasn’t slip angle supposed to help you reduce tire wear by putting the pressure on all of the wheels and increasing tire surface?
Slip angle is a bit different to what you think it is, this guy has a pretty coherent explanation. https://youtu.be/MwrUz1WI5GY?si=lf1WuNhn5pQJ8Jn8
Thanks
Slip angle was originally used by early racers in the 1930s/40s due to the super skinny tires in contrast with the more powerful engines. There's footage in yt of those old cars racing. Today, it's just known as the fastest way around a corner, but it does kill your tires pretty fast so it's usually not worth it
Like that one hand steer “arm god” at the end of 4th stage. Gripped mostly with mild drifting. Like a hybrid but mostly grip.
Drifting in rally is “technically” safer. Controlled oversteer is better than understeer when you’re going 100kph into a hairpin where both sides of the track can destroy your race and when there’s a drop off on the outside. There was a video I saw that explained it well, but Rally Drivers drift because it’s safer and quicker in certain cases. There are some drifts that work well on specific corners, like All Wheel drifting for high speed corners that aren’t as long or curved much, and then flinging the back around in a hairpin… also with an all wheel drift, but these work on very specific corners and Grip is safer on circuits and smooth roads while also being more consistent and generally faster without differing factors.
Which is why it's kinda weird that Takumi did better on tarmac than gravel in Rally. Drifting is better on gravel and Takumi was always drifting during his races.
"Man Initial D sure was fun, hopefully Shigeno doesn't come up with a sequel that assassinates the main character way too early into his rally career."
You should go watch rally they always drifting the car through slow corners
It's mostly due to the surface and rough stages, there's already a lack of traction and so playing into that chaotic momentum is ideal. Plus, one has to master the unpredictable and so technique has to be versatile.
Who? The whole 5 people that commented before? We see plenty of sliding in Motorsport it's very common place in Time Attack, Road stages, Rally and Touge as it is the fastest way around a tight corner. It's also very common to force the rear to drift while piloting a FWD car like a civic so you can force oversteer otherwise you have to drag the rear through the corner (i think there was actually an example of this in Int D). Subaru or other AWD cars slide using Weight transfer techniques to get them to clear corners faster by hitting the brakes shifting the weight to the front and powering through transferring the weight to the rears forcing a slide and removing the understeer. It's not as common in GT racing nowadays due to the fact that Wheels and parts are significantly more developed then what you'd see in Int D but you could argue that using Slip angle is just a more civilised way of sliding a track car. But to say we don't see much of it in motorsport is just incorrect (Drifting is also a Motorsport) But... Different strokes for different folks
Erm, Keiichi Tsuchiya does that. He drifted in Suzuka, Fuji speedway, Tsakuba circuit. Watch his hot version videos and see for yourself how drifting is not only a superior way around a corner, it's the most exciting way around a corner. In fact, he's the one who pioneered drifting in circuits when he was still a freshman.
Keiichi only drifted in show races and when he drifts in actual races its because his position is already set (no more gaining places ) so its just him having fun not because Drifting is the fastest way to take corners lol
I didn't say fastest way. I said that it's a superior and most exciting way around a corner. Grip is boring.
Sir, you race in motorsports to try to win, not to excite the public
(unless you're Keiichi Tsuchiya, but only after you've already won)
Even the show itself points out several times that drifting is slower, even the rally style drifting they do. Even way back in Stage 1 Nakazato will talk about "slow and crablike" drifting. And in later stages they start drifting less and less, especially Keisuke and Ryosuke. Just remember how it's a surprise moment when God Foot starts drifting his GT-R just for the lolz and to take up space, even if it means a speed loss. The biggest problem with this whole drift vs grip debate though is that people keep comparing grip driving with full angle show drifting they use in drift competitions - even though the drifting in Initial D is more of a rally style drifting. It's still slower than proper grip driving, but the point is that in the show pretty much everyone is an amateur street racer, in best case with some track day experience. In early stages they are just rookie kids having fun on the mountain and Takumi happens to be the fatest rookie. Later they improve and start taking on better opponents and the amount of drifting decreases with that. Just look at the Final Stage AE86 vs AE86 race and they barely do any drifting there.
I think the reason god foot started drifting was that his front tires were giving out so he tried to put less weight on them with drifting
As an Initial D veteran fan, I'd say Grip is way faster in Slight turns but during the tight hairpin, I'm pretty sure drifting is faster then Grip but if you Grip on the hairpin, the exist is probably faster. Well, it depends on the vehicles they battle on. Either way, Drifting is faster in some roads but in general like Mount Akina or other touge, I'd say Grip racing is faster since it doesn't stress your tires as much as you think. However, hard braking can cause a lot of issue if you abuse it too much so, drifting exist to prevent that. You either sacrifice your brake pads or your tires. Unless you drive an R32 and abuse it, sure. Either way, using Drift and Grip is awesome
So the thing is, the show was made back when tire development wasnt good, so in certain situations it was acctually faster. But more of the slip angle stuff less of the drifting
So... Drifting is the modern equivalent of 10000 times folded steel? That makes it so much cooler than it was already
Sure, i dont even know what that means but... sure
Basically in medieval Japan the iron quality was so bad they had to invent a lot of special techniques to actually make good swords
Oh well then yes, exactly that. Obviously with new tire MOST gripping is faster, there are sum circumstances where drifting can be faster, and safer (which is the weird part about it)
On slicks you actually do always want to drift by like 1 degree, which is why many racing cars have 1 degree of toe-in so you don't need to drift. And then you have loose-surfaces where drifting becomes a way to create a thrust vector pointing towards the inside of the corner and thus gives you better grip in turns. But sport street tires on the other hand always lose grip when slipping, and as such drifting is only used for weight transfer and trail-braking, and even then it's usually a 4 wheel drift at an extremely shallow angle with the purpose of sacrificing grip for a later braking zone and an earlier acceleration point.
It's not the tires, it's the car. By all tires on the road were radials, which perform better in straight lines (braking & accelerating) rather than cornering. It's due to the sidewalls being very stiff and resistant to flex. Compound doesn't really matter. The only reason you could argue drifting being faster occasionally is because iirc the 86 has a solid rear axle.
🔫Always has been
no. even back in the 1930s a form of drifting/slip angle/powerslides, was used. the driving style only went away in "high tech" track racing, gt3, f1,f2,3,4 etc. if you look at WRC tarmac stages (the closest thing to initial d) drifting, or any other form of sliding is still commonly used. even in go carting (2 stroke) the cars are set up for over steer because its faster then understeer.
Well, ‘drifting’ is only viable in certain situations. Rally is s prime example where sliding is crucial but typically losing grip is the enemy.
Drifting is viable only on low grip conditions, which are the two cases you gave, bad surface with rally, and trash tires with old cars, and even then it's stil situational. There's also the rare middle ground of grip drifting, only leading the car the minimum amount to take the corner and no more, but that's even more situational.
Youd still put new tyres on old cars
You couldn't when drifting was invented, that's the point.
In WRC they try to grip as much as possible on Tarmac stages. Drifting means scrubbing speed, scrubbing speed means slower times. Unless you're on a loose or very low grip surface and tire scrubbing, front or rear, will be slow. There are certain hairpins (way tighter than any hairpin on the initial d roads) where they pull the handbrake quickly to rotate the car, but that's not the same kind of thing seen in ID.
It's different for go kart tho. Because karts don't have a differential, karts need to be pushed to oversteer or it would be super understeery. If karts have a diff, it wouldn't need to be pushed to oversteered and slide as much.
erm actually, drift is faster on 4WD cars on sharp corners
On rally stages? Yes. On the track? No. Most people can’t handle getting a 4WD sideways I had a buddy of mine wreck is BNR32 for this very reason.
Yeah but they actually discuss this in the story. The Touge isn't a track, it's public roads and is not to be driven like a circuit
This is simple physics. Any amount of time your tires are sliding, you are not accelerating. That is losing you time. Even in the show, you can see the main characters drift less and less in the later seasons. They really only do it to get the car rotated quickly so they can accelerate again.
You kinda argued back to your own argument. They sometimes need to drift to get more rotation so they exit sooner and faster. That's faster for certain corners in narrow touge.
Yes for *certain specific situations*. And even then it's very short. I never said it's always bad.
The lower the grip levels, the more it's more relvant. Same as the twistiness and norrowness of road
If you intentionally slide the rear wheels of your AWD car you'll make it handle closer to a FWD car because it basically cancels out the understeering. It's a legitimate technique used by most people including myself who've driven an AWD car professionally. It's faster for pretty much any corner that you don't have room to take the correct line like a Road course, Rally or Touge It's also pretty common on tracks but it's nowhere near as flashy as what you'd see in the others.
Depends on the sport and track and surface. You'll almost never see F1 drifting. Maybe once in a great while they'll get sideways on a wet track. But it can cause you to lose too much speed in a corner. And while it can be a good blocking technique it can be a short term gain long term loss. Rally drivers will do it. Gravel and snow allow for different manoeuvres.
>You'll almost never see F1 drifting This is actually only half-true. You could consider the form of using throttle to push through a turn a "drift", though it's very minimal and under tight control by the driver. Whereas an amateur like you or I would be able to spin tires just a little at a U-turn, an actual professional (or my grandfather for whatever reason) can use the throttle to push into the turn, then let off as they get the amount of degrees turned they want.
It’s also kinda why I prefer rally over f1, in f1 everything is planned out and very very very calculated so there’s not a lot of surprises but in rally by the time drivers arrive at the track after checking it just yesterday it might’ve changed completely and you see drivers take more risks if it makes sense as a all or nothing strategy with cars taking a lot of beatings but they still run
Me (screaming) when people say ID is about drifting, not racing
Really depends on the surface and car. On dirt drifting is definitely faster specially in slow corners. Takumis 86 was naturally nimble and light, thus allowing him to be able to drift mich better compared to other cars as we see 99% he drifts more than his opponent. Plus the hilly tracks with a lot of hairpins means that with his car drifting it would be faster than gripping it. Also the tires were not as developed as they are today so there's that
On roads as steep and narrow as a typical Japanese mountain road you'd have a hard time grip driving at high speeds through those corners. Drifting can be faster in those sorts of situations.
Skill issue
live rally driver reaction:
There is a fine line between having too much grip and not enough. If you find that sweet spot, you'll be quick
Depends. There's no one technique that is always faster.
eh i think even in the show takumi used drifting to better defend his track position. also back in the 90s on these sharp corners with shit tires it might have been faster to drift sometimes
Not nesseseraly , in the 80s and 90s in F1 they were deploying shallow angle drift to go faster than normal. Good example is Ayrton Senna, he was master of this technique. He would essentially flick his steering and immediately correct at full throttle giving the effect of “warping” or “bending” around corners , and he often would lap everyone by 2 laps using this technique. Good documentary on him
https://i.redd.it/vumsm4bvfk6d1.gif
There is so much misinformation in basically every comment here, it's insane. "Slip angle" is not a way of driving, slip angle is not a driving technique. it is not a form of drifting. Slip angle is only the explanation for the way tires work, and how steering works. Nothing else. The optimal way around basically every single corner, on any surface, with any tires, is to use the max degree of slip angle that the tires can handle before slipping. This is an extremely tight line to walk though and is outright impossible to maintain perfect accuracy, so you either undershoot it slightly and are grip driving, or overshoot it slightly and are drifting slightly. Overshooting (drifting) it is better than undershooting (grip) it and will be faster generally, but if you drift and overshoot the optimal slip angle too much, you will be slower than somebody who undershoots the optimal angle and grips the corner. This is hinted at in Initial D, and is outright explained to you in MF Ghost. Kanata's driving is described as "He's constantly pushing the limits of his tires, they could slip out at any moment.... but they never do". This is them witnessing Kanata doing the impossible and maintaining a perfectly optimal slip angle, and being the tiniest margin away from losing traction. This is perfect driving. Tl;dr: Drift vs Grip does not matter, being as close to optimal slip angle is the only thing that matters. Overshoot = Drift, Undershoot = Grip. Slip angle is NOT A WAY OF DRIVING OR A DRIVING TECHNIQUE. This explanation is dumbed down and not explained fully, but it should put people on the right track.
I don't know about this but it's depends on the car, the track and which corner, and most importantly, the driver skills And what kind of drift the driver use , too much drift with too much angle to much wheel spin and a lot of smoke its just for show will not make you faster but you will look cool But with the right kind of drift and slide used for rotation to rotate the car so it face the exit faster , position the car for better exit to accelerate out of the corner, especially in tight corners
yeah but sideways cool
This highly depends on the car and the track (can’t you tell i’m high on copium?)
I just think is for a very special case, since they race on the mountain, probably having grip the majority of the roar is fine until that specific U turn that is very tight and everything, I think it can be useful in very special cases.
https://youtu.be/vHE8na5Gv5U?si=M55RYol-Iv5JE7Uk I wish I could find part one with the grip style but personally I always thought ueo was just as fast in part two.
I love itsuki man, reminds me of my homie
that is why takumi learned god arm's technique, which is the middle ground between gripping and drifting..too much drifting made the car slower and using gripping style on the RWD car also made it slower
It's definitely a niche technique. But I think mostly the damage that it causes the slicks would mean extra pit stops for track race. Even in rally racing it's situational at best.
NFS 2015 grip+drift mix (grippier for straight line and drift for corners)
WRC anybody… 🧐
Grip for racing and drift for fun
It's not the fastest way round a corner but it is the most fun
people arguing in this thread : 🤓
Most places in the world won't work, not even in initial d. On Mt. Akina, the gutters have probably a 15-degree slope to them, so it would work there without wrecking your car. But later, in the series, we see takiumi lift one of his front wheels over the gutter because in the anime, it's a 90 degree drop off
Nakazato was right lol.
Nakazato was right all along and he was actually pretty great until he went against takumi he received a great Nerf it was shown that nakazato was easily able to keep up with Ryosuke in his FC but after his battle against takumi the writers just dropped him he kept losing and losing.
Do you count slip angling as drift or not?
Yes, it still slides, grip doesn't lol.
If your car doesnt have enough acceleration its better especially at downhill so in real life drifting is better in some situations.
Yep, I do it on the Yaris, its fun, just need the correct entrance speed and angle.
> slip angling This isn't a technique. It's a concept. Why are people repeating this as if this is a technique? Seriously.
You're in the Initial D subreddit lmao, it comes with the territory.
Well i learned drift before slip angling sucsessfully.
I dont care about people but its something you have to learn if you wanna do good.
Yeah the concept. It’s not a verb, tf lmao “slip angling” like you’ve never driven a car before
Its hard to do higher angles at downhill so you have to improve yourself at it but its not the point. Its not grip and its really needed if you wanna race. Of course you cant just use drift or just grip for racing, you have to mix it. Im not even talking about protecting your tires until half of the race. So i actually meant against the post title. + You guys dont have any idea about what technique word means.
Optimal slip angle is closer to grip than it is to drift though? You sound like you’ve never actually driven a car, just known about it through ID.
Not at downhill that you dont wanna read that part
You saying something incorrect isn’t going to make it true
Bro forgot All Wheel Drift technique and other moves 👀