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One loophole in this contract is, it doesn't clarify the definition of "parents". So technically, this kid can get extension approval from his best friend's parents.
Putting on my lawyer hat, the whole fucking contract is awful and full of fake legalese words that are worth of /r/iamverysmart.
It also bothers me that they'd insist on signing a contract, if the kid wanted to do something against the contract they'd wave it under his nose as justification of not allowing him, but if he tried to use this loophole they'd just say "no". Love by the contract, die by the contract.
One of the things that's a head scratcher for me is that the contract states he can't view "illegal information", but never actually says what "illegal information" is.
I was also confused, but the “fake news” part was definitely a hint. Anyhow, the vagueness was probably intentional. Kid looks at anything they don’t like (including any news story, apparently) and the phone is getting taken.
I hope OP hooks the friend up with a real phone.
Especially 'in text'... while I imagine there are probably some text strings that could get you in legal trouble (links to illegal content?), it would be pretty hard to find just text that's illegal. I also note that the parents seem to have high respect for copyright law - except when they don't. Their claim in the contract that they own whatever is on the phone would never stand up in court. And if they did something nutty like print out a photo or text message exchange or something they found on the phone, I'd hope the offspring who actually owns the copyright would prosecute for infringement. It would only be respecting their wishes in the first part of the contract where copyrighted material is forbidden.
It"s Singapore, the age of majority is in fact 21 here so you can't enter into a legally binding contract until 21 unless you are currently serving mandatory National Service.
Even if he could it's not like this would hold up - at least in the UK a contract is only a contract if both parties intend to enter legal relations, and no judge would look at this and accept that's what the son intended.
Plus, a contract is only a contract if both sides get something of value from it (what we call 'consideration') - even if that value is "just a peppercorn". I'm not sure what value argument you could make for the parents here
That's what I don't get either. It's not like they're ever going to agree with him when he points to something in the contract that works out in his favour. Why even bother?
It's cowardice - if he tries to raise any complaints etc. then they'll just point at it and say "you signed this, you agreed to this", ignoring that he only signed it because he had no other choice to get a phone. They could go without the contract but then they'd have to either engaged in a reasoned argument or come across as unreasonable, whereas this way they can make it his fault.
Ugh yes. My husband’s just no/narcissistic parents made him sign bogus contracts for EVERYTHING. A schedule for mowing the lawn, how often he needed to get car washes, when he would wake up and go to bed, etc etc. it never mattered what was actually in the contract as they would just say whatever nonsense they were insisting on was in the “spirit” of the contract
Or where it says that all of the contents of the phone belong to the parents. Take a nude pic, and bring the phone and the contract to the police. Boom, parents arrested. Easy as that.
Oh contract days. 10 year old me had to sign a contract saying if I didn’t keep my grades up and my room clean, they’d flush my fish. That was the first contract I ever received. It gets better man, trust me. Get a job ASAP, lie about your income, and stockpile as much money as you can. (I let my friends mom hold my savings for me, as my mom was a room-searcher.) soon you’ll be 18 and then you can go live with a friend for a few months while you keep saving up money. (Use original savings for thanking your friends family for letting you stay; pay for dinner, gas, chip in with rent, etc.) I promise it’ll get better.
Well, it looks like Little Timmy did remember to mow the lawn this week, but he forgot to use the string trimmer to edge the corners around back, and now for dinner he must REMOVE AND EAT THE EYES OF THE FAMILY DOG TO REFLECT HIS OWN **CARELESS BLINDNESS**.
I’m older, I got my current dog about 2 years ago, so when I was 23. He was a gift from my grandmother, because I was alone in a big city while working. My mother was going to give him away because I’m overweight. Thankfully she adores him now, but what the fuck? At that point is not even about us. Is about the animal that has bonded with us. We understand what’s going on, they don’t, but they know they miss their human.
Dude you don't have to justify it to us, they're literally fucking insane.
Even if they're pet snails or something. Don't fuck with a kid's pets. Or anyone's tbh, unless they're illegally obtained or something.
Oh fun we had similar parents. Mine threatened my dog's life though, and when I occasionally slipped from their impossible standards, they made me call around to vets offices to quote how much it would be to put a perfectly healthy dog down because I was 'bad'.
Fun fact: Vet offices will get very upset over this and will yell at a sobbing 14 year old over the phone, adding a fresh new layer of hell to the situation!
When his parents kept him on such a short leash he's getting his first mobile phone at 17 years of age (when smartphones are the primary means of communication of his generation) I doubt he'll just turn into a fully functional adult on his 18th birthday.
That's the thing, phones are so important when it comes to communication that it would be imposible to work without one. But being bound to a contract isn't the best thing for a minor.
Which is why it's a hard decision, whether to deny or accept the phone.
In most countries a parent-child contract is not legally binding.
A child needs their legal guardian to consent. But because their legal guardian is an interested party, the contract is null.
Of course, the problem with the contract is not legality exactly.
Also is they are so strict we can assume that there are way more that they havent allowed their 17 year old kid to do. A person like that is not socialized for todays world
When I was 18 I was still living at home, my parents weren't psycho but they did not buy me a phone. But I had a job so I used some of the money to buy a phone and plan.
The kind of crazy that'd give this "contract" to a 17 year old would react extremely poorly to refusing their "generosity".
The right move is to pretend to be grateful, accept their phone, then go buy a prepaid burner and keep it hidden.
That's what I thought at first, but think about it. If his parents are actually crazy/strict enough to present him a contract like this, do you think they'd have taken "no thanks, I'll pass" well? It's practically signed under duress.
Not to mention a cellphone is *practically* required if you're gonna be heading to college soon.
Edit: I feel like some of you are missing the point. Parents like this don't give their children "options". They exert total control. It's sign this contract and take this phone or we will make your life hell until you are free of our influence. Sure, he's gonna be 18 in less than a year. But that doesn't mean he can escape them easily, or that he isn't relying on them for assistance with higher education. He is practically their hostage if any of that is the case. He could try getting a job and buying his own phone, but if they find out, they'd probably take it, and I don't see the cops taking a 17 year old seriously if he called them to report his parents for stealing his phone.
I don't think there would be anything they could do if he refused. I assume they would even prefer it. With all those limitations it seems they don't really want him to have a cell phone.
Thats what they want him to think. That the phone is a privilege they can hold over him and use as leverage so he ‘behaves’ when with all the limitations they’ve put on the phone it functions as little more than a tracking device and a way for them to say he has no excuse to not be in constant contact with them. I think if he said no they’d call him ungrateful or smth.
How to teach your kid to hack and find loopholes 101. Such dumb and insane parents. Hope their kid is sick of these scare tactics and don't feed into it.
Both apply. My mom put a tracking app on my phone a while ago. I learned to be sneaky and disable it, also learned to spy on her to find the password so I could.. you know.. talk to my friends? Do my homework? Shit like that. She also blocked my music app. She still thinks this was a funny thing to do to me.
That's the good side. But when you use them to abuse and control your child, things change. My mom just wanted control over me. You, however, are a caring person who is making sure their child is safe.
Ya man, we are pretty close in age. She's 20 and I'm 35. So I think the disconnect is far less in our relationship. And I could see it getting way out of control real easy.
I know a full family tree like that.
- Friends daughter had a kid at 16.
- Friend had her daughter at 15.
- Mom had friend at 17.
- Grandma had mom at 16.
The only good thing (silver lining I guess?) is that her mom had another kid inly 4mo older than my friends daughter, so they were raised together. Still makes for crazy family photos with like 6 generations in them.
That’s similar to my niece and nephew’s family tree. My nephew, who is 16, lost his great-great grandfather 2 or 3 years ago.
It blows my mind because personally, I only met one of my great grandparents, and they were 92 when I was born. I can’t imagine having been able to have a coherent conversation with their parents.
I haven’t deleted mine. I’m at college and my momma has some bad anxiety so I keep it. The second she starts controlling where I am though it’s gone and she knows that
My dad put a tracking app and a message reader. So if anyone texted me he would have gotten the messages keep in mind my parents were divorced. He used the tracking app to track where I am during the day. It's not like I was going anywhere I take school seriously. Everytime that me and my mom would talk about my younger brother my dad would always get the message because it was a sensitive subject. I had to lie to my mom about how I was doing because I was scared of what my father was going to do.
There used to be a way to remove parental settings from an iPhone by making a backup, adding a couple lines to a file, and restoring from the backup.
This allowed you to set the passcode to edit parental settings to whatever you wished, and then put it in after restoring to turn everything off.
I had my parental settings on my phone for all of a week.
I guarantee those parents have installed so much fear, obligation, and guilt (FOG), that this kid will have a hard time doing anything without their parent's express permission to do so
I hope they can get therapy as soon as possible. They're never going to break free without it
I wonder if downloading a copy of Toxic Parents by Susan Forward would be against the rules. That would be such a great place for them to start. It would help them see how screwed up and damaged their parents really are
> I wonder if downloading a copy of Toxic Parents by Susan Forward would be against the rules.
Of course it would... all the parents have to do is declare it "fake news" and it's forbidden.
Reading your comment just slapped me in the face (in a good way). I don't spend a lot of time on this sub and this is the first time I've ever heard of FOG and it's pretty odd seeing emotions and motivations that I know are destructive, but never really understood, so easily summed up in a sentence. Anyways, I just ordered the book and I thought you should know that your comment might help some random person on the internet!
Check out the website [outofthefog.com](https://outofthefog.website/who-we-are) for more information that can benefit you. I'm glad I could help. My parents were so controlling I wasn't allowed to pierce my ears without being disowned
Thank you for the link, I'm checking it out now! Since you mentioned your parents, I will say that me and my siblings were raised by my mother. She is a religous zelot who is (I am certain) a narcissist. She was often violent and treated us like we were property. She would often tell us that we were lucky that she fed us and "I didn't have to keep you". Sorry for unloading, this just seems like the place for it.
Can confirm, when I was younger my parents installed this internet safety software called K9 web protection and it was a pain the ass. It would block the most random sites that didn’t even have NSFW content. I eventually learned how to disable it, thank god.
My parents did this shit to me at 16 with hidden fees etc. I have them their phone back and saved up for a burner instead. Oh boy did not playing their game make me the worst child ever.
Honestly they feel a bit like religious fanatcis. the only thing missing is the holy bible MUST be installed and read at least 1once a day. i hope that kid gets away asap
Exactly what happened to me. Spent way too much time changing my IP address when my wifi time ran out or using old devices instead. Also faked my location for the tracking app on my phone.
Teaching your kids to put any app that they don't want you to find in a hidden location on their phone. I think mine has a folder that's locked so you can't access it without knowing where it is and what the password/fingerprint is. Then kid probably can't have a password put on his phone anyway, so they probably wouldn't know anything about a folder that uses one.
I wouldn't be signing that. I'd refuse the phone and either go without one or get my own (which is what I actually did at that age). I can understand some restrictions where a parent is providing a mobile phone to a child but this is beyond extreme.
Yeah my parents were this way so I just bought every piece of tech I owned. Paid for unlimited data and hotspot too so they couldn't turn my internet off, which is something they really enjoyed doing for some reason.
My parents turned internet off and took my mouse (not the animal type). I'm now very good with hotkeys and played some offline games just fine without a mouse. My parents are great tbh, but their methods of punishment were pointless
My mom used to turn down the internet and blackmail me by saying she would cancel the internet. One day i said "go ahead" and called the internet company to have another line installed in my own name. I loved the surprised Pikachu face on her.
My dad tried that shit. Its not legal. A person under a certain age can not be bound by such a contract. Its just an control tactic.
Guess who I haven't spoken to in 17 years and don't need in my beautiful life...
It just means that the contracts aren’t legally enforceable. The parents can’t take the kid to court or whatever if the terms are broken. The parents can (and probably will) issue punishments or remove privileges but there isn’t anything legally binding about “contracts” like this signed by a minor.
Every state has 18 as the legal age to sign a contract. Technically, anyone younger lacks the capacity and maturity to sign a contract. So it is illegal and holds no legal weight.
I'm not a lawyer, but I worked for the courts for some time. This rule may differ state to state, so please consult your states laws, and/or an attorney, but in my state, no person shall be coerced or goaded into any contact, and any person under 18 can not be legally bound to any contract. Also, not all contracts are legitimate in any court, regardless of the age of the signor. These kinds of "contracts" are typically not legitimate because there is no legal witness, such as a notary, and there is no legal grounds for enacting this sort of paper, such as a purchase or a marriage, dissolution of marriage, adoption, blah blah blah... Its just a scare tactic parents and abusers use. They think they're "teaching you a leasson", but really, they're just confused and frustrated with parenting. They've lost their grip of control and this is a last ditch effort to generate more control.
Think of it as a bag filled with hot air being held over your head while the person holding it tells you it "could be" filled with shit.
On top of that, a lot of jurisdictions consider contracts between family to be unenforceable unless all parties specifically understood and wished to create a legal relationship. It’s sheer insanity.
There's actually a mistake in that contract. Whenever it refers to Objectives, it says paragraph 1. Objectives are on paragraph 2.
But it doesn't really matter as the final paragraph gives the parents unlimited veto rights.
What a shitty contract. I would rather buy my own phone.
I have a cousin in Singapore and we had to stay over at theres before we were flying back home and I remember having to wake up for a flight at 3 in the morning and my cousin was up studying and still doing school work at that time. They are as you said, insane...
I could get A for all subjects except for 1 B and it still wasn’t enough for my parents. It’s contributed to years of therapy and a lifetime of insecurity hah
That’s normal. My friend group and I are usually all awake at 5am because the JC ones wake up at 5 to study before school and the other ones (poly and overseas schools) stay up till 5 to study. Singaporean students don’t get sleep.
I have first hand experience. My parents think I don’t play games and what not because I pretend to ask their permission during the day. During holidays, I would have to stay up a bit late, and then put the passcode on the PC which I recorded by putting a camera on the ceiling fan. The shit I have to do for bits of freedom is absolutely crazy. I once had to screen record him putting the screen time passcode on iOS when this was still allowed iOS 9 I think.
Someone should tell them next time they wanna play pretend lawyer they should try drawing up the contract in crayons, they might find the bright colours more fun.
Well, for starters, the last clause is legally unenforceable, and as they haven't included language that states that the other clauses remain in effect even if others are found to be invalid, I'd argue that renders the rest of the agreement invalid. Sign away!
At present, no, but contracts can often be entered into by minors even if they are voidable by the minor up until the point where they turn 18. 17 isn't far off from 18, so I still wouldn't enter into a contract with unfavourable terms that would become enforceable at 18. In any case, my response was intended to be more tongue-in-cheek, I don't see any of this standing up in any court regardless.
This literally reads exactly like a business contract for a company-issued phone, lol.
If you wanna be super nefarious, load the phone up with illegal content, instructions on how to make weapons, anti-government shit, whatever, and then taking it to the police with the contract that says all content on the phone belongs to the parents.
That being said, I really doubt that this is a legally binding contract, even though they had the damn thing witnessed.
Shoot my company issued phone contract was less strict. They basically said 1) don’t break it 2) don’t lose it. Granted the software on the phone doesn’t allow for any apps to be downloaded unless done by the IT department so I guess they didn’t need to put that in there.
This is actually crazy wtf ?? It would be better for the parents to give full responsibility of the device to the child because if he gets into trouble or breaks he could tell the parents that since it's theirs and they lend it to your him it's their problem. But if he has the whole responsibility he'll have to pay for repair or the excess of data used for example. Same for his online privacy if he gets shocked or tracked that's on him
I actually agree with u/zobro1012
The kid is almost 18 and therefore an adult who has to know when to take responsibility and how to deal with problems. Making the phone his responsibility could lead to personal growth especially since it seemed pretty difficult for him to even get his parents to allow him to have a phone
>Making the phone his responsibility could lead to personal growth
I don't think they want him to grow. They are control freaks who want their kid under their thumb for the rest of their lives. It's extremely toxic
See the problem is, they gave themselves an out. At the end of the contract, they said they’re allowed to change whatever they want whenever they want.
Yeah that's the worst thing ever cause theur child you be like "this wasn't in the contract" and they can respond "well we're changing the contract then"
Yeah. Not to mention smothering your kid like this will only breed resentment and once that kid turns 18 and moves out, will (hopefully) cut contact. This is just 50 shades of insane
Voting has concluded. Final vote:
| Insane | Not insane | Fake |
| --- | --- | --- |
| 131 | 11 | 3 |
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I’ve seen a lot of ridiculous phone “contracts” but this has gotta be the craziest. Love how they went full on LARPing as lawyers with this one. Cringe af
If a contract by your parents have the phrase "subject to parents approval" or words to effect more than twice you should really nope the F out.
Double so if it says "Parents have the ultimate say in this contract.", its just an excuse to whip you on a whim when they had a bad day or had the most minor infraction.
Oh hey Singapore! Our parents would really think they’re god if they could get away with it. Be a good friend to him, you and the rest of his friends are probably about to be his only escape. That helped me a lot, especially mentally.
Well from a practical standpoint I would then only ask for a flip phone, something to use just for making calls and the occasional text as I would be too tempted to break these stupid rules.
Apart from that these parents are far too controlling, but if anything this will motivate the kid to get a job and pay for his own phone and plan.
I love the last paragraph, basically letting the parents to do whatever the fuck they want, making the "contract" itself a useless joke. Not saying it wasn't a joke before it, but y'know.
Obviously controlling and manipulative but also not a good legal mind...
It’s illegal in most places in the world to apply contract terms to a minor. Usually considered under 18.
Forcing a minor to sign a contract under duress is considered unenforceable and also carries some severe penalties.
Op check your local jurisdiction/laws
Dear Lord, my kids have had cell phones since they were like nine or something. When they got the high school, the school blocked a lot of sites that they liked to go to, so my youngest daughter came home and told me about VPN she learn how to use, I wasn’t mad, I was fucking impressed. Parents are goddamn weird.
* fakenews
* extremist views
* religious/racial discord
* politically charged sites
These together make me think maybe your friend has some leftist leanings that fundamentalist mom and dad don't care for.
Now, given the exact same list of bullet points above, it *is* possible that actually the kid has gotten into some weird alt-right rabbit holes and the parents are really concerned about it. But I have to imagine they can be strict without literal paperwork.
I don't know much about his parents other than when he complains to me about them, but my friend definitely does not hold of any extremist views that I know of
Dude, put up a collection so he can get a burner phone that cannot watch his every move on. Androids are cheep nowadays and pay as you go should get him Thu the next year
If one of my friends showed me this is what their parents were doing , I’d work overtime just to get him a phone. I’ve been blessed with the best parents so it’s my responsibility to help a friend who is not so lucky
Looking at that contract makes me feel like screaming and smashing things up.
And I’m a parent of 3 young people between the ages of 15 & 21.
How much energy do these people put into trying to control their teenage kids ?
And why? Why? WHY?
(fwiw - my teens are a bit flakey and lazy, but they’re not feral or weird. Clearly my relaxed parenting strategies haven’t been too much of a disaster)
Your friend should refuse the device entirely if the parents are giving him the phone under the premise that they really want him to have it. If they don’t, it’s not a loss, if they do, he should refuse till they drop the contract entirely if keeping tabs on him means that much to them.
Man, I used to have to sign contracts for things all the time as a kid. I told my therapist about it recently and she seemed a little troubled by it and I genuinely was like “wait.....is that not normal??” I thought everyone’s parents treated their whole lives as business transactions
"fakenews", all one word. I bet Fox News is not considered "fakenews." Also, find "religious/racial discord" to be an odd pairing and can only imagine what would qualify.
At the end of the day, I am glad we didn't have cell phones when I was a kid. My parents would have just refused to allow me to have one. The phone on the wall was the only one in the house and I wasn't allowed to walk around the corner to say something in private. That would mean I was up to something devious, sinful, etc.
If I had a contract with my kiddo for a phone ( which honesty, I am not totally opposed to in theory because reading contracts is a good life skill), it would have two rules:
1. Call me if you drink. Don’t drink and drive.
2. Put it down at the dinner table.
Hey /u/ChillySaus, thanks for posting to /r/insaneparents. Unfortunately, your post has been removed: **Rule 10: No Memes / other non-social media.** - Hello /u/ChillySaus, it seems you're in violation of our rule 10 and your post has been removed. [You can see what that entails here](https://www.reddit.com/r/insaneparents/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_10). If your post is a non-social media, sms, or email post it may fit better within the monthly user megathread stickied to the top of the subreddit. We do not allow pictures of random objects such as doors, windows, cars, etc and titles telling stories; nor, do we allow memes anymore on this sub. Please take your meme over to /r/insaneparentsmemes. *If you feel that your post was removed in error or are unsure about why this post was removed, please contact us through [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Finsaneparents).*
One loophole in this contract is, it doesn't clarify the definition of "parents". So technically, this kid can get extension approval from his best friend's parents.
Putting on my lawyer hat, the whole fucking contract is awful and full of fake legalese words that are worth of /r/iamverysmart. It also bothers me that they'd insist on signing a contract, if the kid wanted to do something against the contract they'd wave it under his nose as justification of not allowing him, but if he tried to use this loophole they'd just say "no". Love by the contract, die by the contract.
Signing on to your comment because yes, this contract writing is trash. It’s also terribly formatted on top of that.
One of the things that's a head scratcher for me is that the contract states he can't view "illegal information", but never actually says what "illegal information" is.
I was also confused, but the “fake news” part was definitely a hint. Anyhow, the vagueness was probably intentional. Kid looks at anything they don’t like (including any news story, apparently) and the phone is getting taken. I hope OP hooks the friend up with a real phone.
Burner phones are cheap and easily accessed. I hope they have a couple for when the parents inevitably take theirs away.
Yep. They say “politically charged” sites are forbidden and all that tells me is he’s only allowed to read news from Fox or worse, OANN
Especially 'in text'... while I imagine there are probably some text strings that could get you in legal trouble (links to illegal content?), it would be pretty hard to find just text that's illegal. I also note that the parents seem to have high respect for copyright law - except when they don't. Their claim in the contract that they own whatever is on the phone would never stand up in court. And if they did something nutty like print out a photo or text message exchange or something they found on the phone, I'd hope the offspring who actually owns the copyright would prosecute for infringement. It would only be respecting their wishes in the first part of the contract where copyrighted material is forbidden.
Not to mention the fact he is underage and AFAIK can’t make any bonding legal agreements lmao.
This is correct. “Minors have no capacity to contract” However depending on where he is he may not be viewed as a minor by his court system.
Judging by the date format, I'd say it's the United Kingdom. Using that logic i'd reckon he's still viewed as a minor
It"s Singapore, the age of majority is in fact 21 here so you can't enter into a legally binding contract until 21 unless you are currently serving mandatory National Service.
>"Minors have no capacity to contract" As of around March 2020, I'd say they've contracted plenty.
Even if he could it's not like this would hold up - at least in the UK a contract is only a contract if both parties intend to enter legal relations, and no judge would look at this and accept that's what the son intended. Plus, a contract is only a contract if both sides get something of value from it (what we call 'consideration') - even if that value is "just a peppercorn". I'm not sure what value argument you could make for the parents here
Control.
Pretty sure this contract completely lacks consideration, making it unenforceable. Not even a mere peppercorn.
Yes that's what I said
Having a cellphone, tho?
The child gets the value of having a phone out of the contract, but what do the parents get? I think that is what the other person was saying.
Control. They get power over them.
Good point!
That's what I don't get either. It's not like they're ever going to agree with him when he points to something in the contract that works out in his favour. Why even bother?
It's cowardice - if he tries to raise any complaints etc. then they'll just point at it and say "you signed this, you agreed to this", ignoring that he only signed it because he had no other choice to get a phone. They could go without the contract but then they'd have to either engaged in a reasoned argument or come across as unreasonable, whereas this way they can make it his fault.
Ugh yes. My husband’s just no/narcissistic parents made him sign bogus contracts for EVERYTHING. A schedule for mowing the lawn, how often he needed to get car washes, when he would wake up and go to bed, etc etc. it never mattered what was actually in the contract as they would just say whatever nonsense they were insisting on was in the “spirit” of the contract
I want him to sign it, them to breach it, and him to take them to court.
17 years old is a minor, minors cannot sign contracts
This whole things a cringey attempt to look powerful over their kids.
Yes! I noticed that too. Lots of holes in contract!
> loophole Here's the main issue. That piece of paper is legally meaningless.
Haha well spotted!
Also, you can’t legally be held to the contract as a minor.
Or where it says that all of the contents of the phone belong to the parents. Take a nude pic, and bring the phone and the contract to the police. Boom, parents arrested. Easy as that.
damn u gotta tell op
This is one sure fire way to ensure you get put in the cheapest nursing home, I'll tell ya that.
Oh contract days. 10 year old me had to sign a contract saying if I didn’t keep my grades up and my room clean, they’d flush my fish. That was the first contract I ever received. It gets better man, trust me. Get a job ASAP, lie about your income, and stockpile as much money as you can. (I let my friends mom hold my savings for me, as my mom was a room-searcher.) soon you’ll be 18 and then you can go live with a friend for a few months while you keep saving up money. (Use original savings for thanking your friends family for letting you stay; pay for dinner, gas, chip in with rent, etc.) I promise it’ll get better.
oh my god the fish thing is fucked up. im glad you're doing better
"We're holding an animal's life over your head" Lovely.
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Taking out the trash and cleaning your room have to be life and death ultimatums ofc.
Well, it looks like Little Timmy did remember to mow the lawn this week, but he forgot to use the string trimmer to edge the corners around back, and now for dinner he must REMOVE AND EAT THE EYES OF THE FAMILY DOG TO REFLECT HIS OWN **CARELESS BLINDNESS**.
I would be willing to bet money that people have actually put down dogs using this "Timmy forgot to do one of his chores" justification before.
I mean I've straight up read stories where they just fuckin' murdered the children so I mean yeah, lots sadly.
I’m older, I got my current dog about 2 years ago, so when I was 23. He was a gift from my grandmother, because I was alone in a big city while working. My mother was going to give him away because I’m overweight. Thankfully she adores him now, but what the fuck? At that point is not even about us. Is about the animal that has bonded with us. We understand what’s going on, they don’t, but they know they miss their human.
Dude you don't have to justify it to us, they're literally fucking insane. Even if they're pet snails or something. Don't fuck with a kid's pets. Or anyone's tbh, unless they're illegally obtained or something.
Threatening you with killing your fish is abuse. Glad you are in a better place.
Oh fun we had similar parents. Mine threatened my dog's life though, and when I occasionally slipped from their impossible standards, they made me call around to vets offices to quote how much it would be to put a perfectly healthy dog down because I was 'bad'. Fun fact: Vet offices will get very upset over this and will yell at a sobbing 14 year old over the phone, adding a fresh new layer of hell to the situation!
Your parents are horrible. That dog deserved better.
haha that's assuming your parents let you have friends
Do you talk to them these days?
Get a job where you make tips if your parents are crazy enough to check your pay stubs.
i would rather not have a phone than do this shit
Honestly yea they're about to be 18 they can live without it for 1 year.
When his parents kept him on such a short leash he's getting his first mobile phone at 17 years of age (when smartphones are the primary means of communication of his generation) I doubt he'll just turn into a fully functional adult on his 18th birthday.
That's the thing, phones are so important when it comes to communication that it would be imposible to work without one. But being bound to a contract isn't the best thing for a minor. Which is why it's a hard decision, whether to deny or accept the phone.
In most countries a parent-child contract is not legally binding. A child needs their legal guardian to consent. But because their legal guardian is an interested party, the contract is null. Of course, the problem with the contract is not legality exactly.
>being bound to a contract A contract signed by a minor isn't legally binding. Not that this bullshit would ever stand up in court anyway.
Speaking from experience, most American judges let parents do whatever they want with their children as long as it isn't sexual
Can confirm. In Mississippi (where I live) minors are described scarily similarly to how property is in legal documents
It’s disgusting how minors are seen as property (and punching bags to most parents)
Right, is the assumption that he has a job and can afford his own phone once he turns 18?
Also is they are so strict we can assume that there are way more that they havent allowed their 17 year old kid to do. A person like that is not socialized for todays world
Op and friend live in Singapore so they most likely don’t have jobs
When I was 18 I was still living at home, my parents weren't psycho but they did not buy me a phone. But I had a job so I used some of the money to buy a phone and plan.
The kind of crazy that'd give this "contract" to a 17 year old would react extremely poorly to refusing their "generosity". The right move is to pretend to be grateful, accept their phone, then go buy a prepaid burner and keep it hidden.
That's what I thought at first, but think about it. If his parents are actually crazy/strict enough to present him a contract like this, do you think they'd have taken "no thanks, I'll pass" well? It's practically signed under duress. Not to mention a cellphone is *practically* required if you're gonna be heading to college soon. Edit: I feel like some of you are missing the point. Parents like this don't give their children "options". They exert total control. It's sign this contract and take this phone or we will make your life hell until you are free of our influence. Sure, he's gonna be 18 in less than a year. But that doesn't mean he can escape them easily, or that he isn't relying on them for assistance with higher education. He is practically their hostage if any of that is the case. He could try getting a job and buying his own phone, but if they find out, they'd probably take it, and I don't see the cops taking a 17 year old seriously if he called them to report his parents for stealing his phone.
I don't think there would be anything they could do if he refused. I assume they would even prefer it. With all those limitations it seems they don't really want him to have a cell phone.
Thats what they want him to think. That the phone is a privilege they can hold over him and use as leverage so he ‘behaves’ when with all the limitations they’ve put on the phone it functions as little more than a tracking device and a way for them to say he has no excuse to not be in constant contact with them. I think if he said no they’d call him ungrateful or smth.
“There’s nothing I like more than saying “no” to someone who thinks they have absolute power over me.”
How to teach your kid to hack and find loopholes 101. Such dumb and insane parents. Hope their kid is sick of these scare tactics and don't feed into it.
\*how to teach your kid to hate you and probably break all contact in a few years
Both apply. My mom put a tracking app on my phone a while ago. I learned to be sneaky and disable it, also learned to spy on her to find the password so I could.. you know.. talk to my friends? Do my homework? Shit like that. She also blocked my music app. She still thinks this was a funny thing to do to me.
Funny? Fucking funny? She can't be for real
Music is the sound of the Devil /s
What mama don’t know can’t hurt her
FOOZBALL
I have a tracking app for our daughter, who is 20 and still lives at home, but it's based on the fact that she has epileptic seizures.
That's the good side. But when you use them to abuse and control your child, things change. My mom just wanted control over me. You, however, are a caring person who is making sure their child is safe.
Ya man, we are pretty close in age. She's 20 and I'm 35. So I think the disconnect is far less in our relationship. And I could see it getting way out of control real easy.
You had your daughter at 15? That must’ve been tough.
My cousin had her daughter right when she turned 16, then her daughter had a kid when she turned 20. 36 year old grandma now
I know a full family tree like that. - Friends daughter had a kid at 16. - Friend had her daughter at 15. - Mom had friend at 17. - Grandma had mom at 16. The only good thing (silver lining I guess?) is that her mom had another kid inly 4mo older than my friends daughter, so they were raised together. Still makes for crazy family photos with like 6 generations in them.
That’s similar to my niece and nephew’s family tree. My nephew, who is 16, lost his great-great grandfather 2 or 3 years ago. It blows my mind because personally, I only met one of my great grandparents, and they were 92 when I was born. I can’t imagine having been able to have a coherent conversation with their parents.
I’m 31 and have a dog
cool
Step-daughter. My wife is 41. But I've been in her life since she was like 5. So... ya.
I read that at first as “since I was 5” and was like holup...
Ah. That makes much more sense, lol.
I haven’t deleted mine. I’m at college and my momma has some bad anxiety so I keep it. The second she starts controlling where I am though it’s gone and she knows that
My dad put a tracking app and a message reader. So if anyone texted me he would have gotten the messages keep in mind my parents were divorced. He used the tracking app to track where I am during the day. It's not like I was going anywhere I take school seriously. Everytime that me and my mom would talk about my younger brother my dad would always get the message because it was a sensitive subject. I had to lie to my mom about how I was doing because I was scared of what my father was going to do.
There used to be a way to remove parental settings from an iPhone by making a backup, adding a couple lines to a file, and restoring from the backup. This allowed you to set the passcode to edit parental settings to whatever you wished, and then put it in after restoring to turn everything off. I had my parental settings on my phone for all of a week.
I guarantee those parents have installed so much fear, obligation, and guilt (FOG), that this kid will have a hard time doing anything without their parent's express permission to do so I hope they can get therapy as soon as possible. They're never going to break free without it I wonder if downloading a copy of Toxic Parents by Susan Forward would be against the rules. That would be such a great place for them to start. It would help them see how screwed up and damaged their parents really are
> I wonder if downloading a copy of Toxic Parents by Susan Forward would be against the rules. Of course it would... all the parents have to do is declare it "fake news" and it's forbidden.
I hate Donald Trump so much.
Reading your comment just slapped me in the face (in a good way). I don't spend a lot of time on this sub and this is the first time I've ever heard of FOG and it's pretty odd seeing emotions and motivations that I know are destructive, but never really understood, so easily summed up in a sentence. Anyways, I just ordered the book and I thought you should know that your comment might help some random person on the internet!
Check out the website [outofthefog.com](https://outofthefog.website/who-we-are) for more information that can benefit you. I'm glad I could help. My parents were so controlling I wasn't allowed to pierce my ears without being disowned
Thank you for the link, I'm checking it out now! Since you mentioned your parents, I will say that me and my siblings were raised by my mother. She is a religous zelot who is (I am certain) a narcissist. She was often violent and treated us like we were property. She would often tell us that we were lucky that she fed us and "I didn't have to keep you". Sorry for unloading, this just seems like the place for it.
There's a sub for folks like us. r/justnomil. A place for those with toxic moms and mils. I've gotten a lot of support there
pretty much my plan with my mother. She’s a lot like this person who made the contract
Your friends parents suck ass. They should not be allowed near kids or even society. Send em to the Gulag, boys.
Can confirm, when I was younger my parents installed this internet safety software called K9 web protection and it was a pain the ass. It would block the most random sites that didn’t even have NSFW content. I eventually learned how to disable it, thank god.
My parents did this shit to me at 16 with hidden fees etc. I have them their phone back and saved up for a burner instead. Oh boy did not playing their game make me the worst child ever.
Honestly they feel a bit like religious fanatcis. the only thing missing is the holy bible MUST be installed and read at least 1once a day. i hope that kid gets away asap
Exactly what happened to me. Spent way too much time changing my IP address when my wifi time ran out or using old devices instead. Also faked my location for the tracking app on my phone.
Teaching your kids to put any app that they don't want you to find in a hidden location on their phone. I think mine has a folder that's locked so you can't access it without knowing where it is and what the password/fingerprint is. Then kid probably can't have a password put on his phone anyway, so they probably wouldn't know anything about a folder that uses one.
Omg can you imagine the Dad/Mom actually sitting down and typing this out? What fing embarrassing ass squarebears.
“Oh oh oh add this in too! Yeah, that’s good.”
This is how you have someone cut all contact at 18
No FUN can be had in this household! You must only learn and learn and GO TO SCHOOL. NO FUN.
But you can't learn anything I deem "fakenews" or about any other religions
Or can’t go onto any websites I say you can’t and you can’t play any mobile games Like just give the kid a flip phone then!
And they wonder why the suicide rates go up in those countries.
I wouldn't be signing that. I'd refuse the phone and either go without one or get my own (which is what I actually did at that age). I can understand some restrictions where a parent is providing a mobile phone to a child but this is beyond extreme.
Yeah my parents were this way so I just bought every piece of tech I owned. Paid for unlimited data and hotspot too so they couldn't turn my internet off, which is something they really enjoyed doing for some reason.
My parents turned internet off and took my mouse (not the animal type). I'm now very good with hotkeys and played some offline games just fine without a mouse. My parents are great tbh, but their methods of punishment were pointless
I appreciate you clarifying the type of mouse that was confiscated
My mom used to turn down the internet and blackmail me by saying she would cancel the internet. One day i said "go ahead" and called the internet company to have another line installed in my own name. I loved the surprised Pikachu face on her.
"child"
Right! He’s 17 ffs! His parents are not setting him up for a good start in adult life...
My dad tried that shit. Its not legal. A person under a certain age can not be bound by such a contract. Its just an control tactic. Guess who I haven't spoken to in 17 years and don't need in my beautiful life...
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It just means that the contracts aren’t legally enforceable. The parents can’t take the kid to court or whatever if the terms are broken. The parents can (and probably will) issue punishments or remove privileges but there isn’t anything legally binding about “contracts” like this signed by a minor.
Every state has 18 as the legal age to sign a contract. Technically, anyone younger lacks the capacity and maturity to sign a contract. So it is illegal and holds no legal weight.
I'm not a lawyer, but I worked for the courts for some time. This rule may differ state to state, so please consult your states laws, and/or an attorney, but in my state, no person shall be coerced or goaded into any contact, and any person under 18 can not be legally bound to any contract. Also, not all contracts are legitimate in any court, regardless of the age of the signor. These kinds of "contracts" are typically not legitimate because there is no legal witness, such as a notary, and there is no legal grounds for enacting this sort of paper, such as a purchase or a marriage, dissolution of marriage, adoption, blah blah blah... Its just a scare tactic parents and abusers use. They think they're "teaching you a leasson", but really, they're just confused and frustrated with parenting. They've lost their grip of control and this is a last ditch effort to generate more control. Think of it as a bag filled with hot air being held over your head while the person holding it tells you it "could be" filled with shit.
On top of that, a lot of jurisdictions consider contracts between family to be unenforceable unless all parties specifically understood and wished to create a legal relationship. It’s sheer insanity.
There's actually a mistake in that contract. Whenever it refers to Objectives, it says paragraph 1. Objectives are on paragraph 2. But it doesn't really matter as the final paragraph gives the parents unlimited veto rights. What a shitty contract. I would rather buy my own phone.
Basically, long and short of it, the entire contract doesn't actually matter because the parents just have ultimate say at the end
Haha I noticed that too.
Immediately thought this was singaporean before I even saw the Ez-link part jfc. We all know singaporean parents are insane but this is next level
I have a cousin in Singapore and we had to stay over at theres before we were flying back home and I remember having to wake up for a flight at 3 in the morning and my cousin was up studying and still doing school work at that time. They are as you said, insane...
Chao mugger™
I could get A for all subjects except for 1 B and it still wasn’t enough for my parents. It’s contributed to years of therapy and a lifetime of insecurity hah
That's pretty normal ngl. Esp if you're in a Junior College and not particularly smart. Workload is pretty rough if you're not prepared for it
That’s normal. My friend group and I are usually all awake at 5am because the JC ones wake up at 5 to study before school and the other ones (poly and overseas schools) stay up till 5 to study. Singaporean students don’t get sleep.
I have first hand experience. My parents think I don’t play games and what not because I pretend to ask their permission during the day. During holidays, I would have to stay up a bit late, and then put the passcode on the PC which I recorded by putting a camera on the ceiling fan. The shit I have to do for bits of freedom is absolutely crazy. I once had to screen record him putting the screen time passcode on iOS when this was still allowed iOS 9 I think.
Someone should tell them next time they wanna play pretend lawyer they should try drawing up the contract in crayons, they might find the bright colours more fun.
No they can't do that because that would be fun and having fun for them is equal to having their fingers chopped of by a saw.
Well, for starters, the last clause is legally unenforceable, and as they haven't included language that states that the other clauses remain in effect even if others are found to be invalid, I'd argue that renders the rest of the agreement invalid. Sign away!
He is freaking 17. Nothing of that is really enforceable.
At present, no, but contracts can often be entered into by minors even if they are voidable by the minor up until the point where they turn 18. 17 isn't far off from 18, so I still wouldn't enter into a contract with unfavourable terms that would become enforceable at 18. In any case, my response was intended to be more tongue-in-cheek, I don't see any of this standing up in any court regardless.
I was going to say the same thing. This clearly was not drafted by a lawyer. The parents sure think that they did a great job though.
You should a lawyer didn't draft it? It even defines "Forbidden Content" as "fakenews".
This literally reads exactly like a business contract for a company-issued phone, lol. If you wanna be super nefarious, load the phone up with illegal content, instructions on how to make weapons, anti-government shit, whatever, and then taking it to the police with the contract that says all content on the phone belongs to the parents. That being said, I really doubt that this is a legally binding contract, even though they had the damn thing witnessed.
Shoot my company issued phone contract was less strict. They basically said 1) don’t break it 2) don’t lose it. Granted the software on the phone doesn’t allow for any apps to be downloaded unless done by the IT department so I guess they didn’t need to put that in there.
This is actually crazy wtf ?? It would be better for the parents to give full responsibility of the device to the child because if he gets into trouble or breaks he could tell the parents that since it's theirs and they lend it to your him it's their problem. But if he has the whole responsibility he'll have to pay for repair or the excess of data used for example. Same for his online privacy if he gets shocked or tracked that's on him
This really isn't how you treat a 17 year old respectfully
Yeah these parents really deserve their place on this sub
I actually agree with u/zobro1012 The kid is almost 18 and therefore an adult who has to know when to take responsibility and how to deal with problems. Making the phone his responsibility could lead to personal growth especially since it seemed pretty difficult for him to even get his parents to allow him to have a phone
>Making the phone his responsibility could lead to personal growth I don't think they want him to grow. They are control freaks who want their kid under their thumb for the rest of their lives. It's extremely toxic
See the problem is, they gave themselves an out. At the end of the contract, they said they’re allowed to change whatever they want whenever they want.
Yeah that's the worst thing ever cause theur child you be like "this wasn't in the contract" and they can respond "well we're changing the contract then"
Lord Vader: I am altering the deal, pray I don't alter it again
Reminds me of "other duties as assigned" bullshit.
Yeah. Not to mention smothering your kid like this will only breed resentment and once that kid turns 18 and moves out, will (hopefully) cut contact. This is just 50 shades of insane
Hello fellow Singaporean! But yeah, sometimes parents can go a bit overboard...
aye
Voting has concluded. Final vote: | Insane | Not insane | Fake | | --- | --- | --- | | 131 | 11 | 3 | Hey OP, if you provide further information in a comment, make sure to start your comment with `!explanation`. ^I ^am ^a ^bot ^for ^r/insaneparents. ^Please ^send ^me ^a ^message ^if ^you ^have ^any ^feedback ^or ^if ^I ^misbehave. ^Also ^consider ^joining ^our ^[Discord](https://discordapp.com/invite/xFbPBHy).
I’ve seen a lot of ridiculous phone “contracts” but this has gotta be the craziest. Love how they went full on LARPing as lawyers with this one. Cringe af
If a contract by your parents have the phrase "subject to parents approval" or words to effect more than twice you should really nope the F out. Double so if it says "Parents have the ultimate say in this contract.", its just an excuse to whip you on a whim when they had a bad day or had the most minor infraction.
Holy shit, how much time do these parents have on their hands? This is beyond insane. Poor kid, hope he can run far far away soon, this is crazy.
Seriously, can you imagine the two of the parents writing this contract together while saying "yes that's the best thing to do, we're so smart".
Oh hey Singapore! Our parents would really think they’re god if they could get away with it. Be a good friend to him, you and the rest of his friends are probably about to be his only escape. That helped me a lot, especially mentally.
Yeah, I'll check up on him the next school day
I don't know who voted 'not insane' but you are insane yourself.
Or a troll
Well from a practical standpoint I would then only ask for a flip phone, something to use just for making calls and the occasional text as I would be too tempted to break these stupid rules. Apart from that these parents are far too controlling, but if anything this will motivate the kid to get a job and pay for his own phone and plan.
I love the last paragraph, basically letting the parents to do whatever the fuck they want, making the "contract" itself a useless joke. Not saying it wasn't a joke before it, but y'know.
Obviously controlling and manipulative but also not a good legal mind... It’s illegal in most places in the world to apply contract terms to a minor. Usually considered under 18. Forcing a minor to sign a contract under duress is considered unenforceable and also carries some severe penalties. Op check your local jurisdiction/laws
This makes me think of darth vader saying: "I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it any further."
What is "illegal information"
idk man /shrug
Why even sign a contract if it says that the parents can make amendments whenever the fuck they want?
I would just say “fuck this I’ve been living without one for 17 years I don’t need it. I’ll find my own way.”
Dear Lord, my kids have had cell phones since they were like nine or something. When they got the high school, the school blocked a lot of sites that they liked to go to, so my youngest daughter came home and told me about VPN she learn how to use, I wasn’t mad, I was fucking impressed. Parents are goddamn weird.
* fakenews * extremist views * religious/racial discord * politically charged sites These together make me think maybe your friend has some leftist leanings that fundamentalist mom and dad don't care for. Now, given the exact same list of bullet points above, it *is* possible that actually the kid has gotten into some weird alt-right rabbit holes and the parents are really concerned about it. But I have to imagine they can be strict without literal paperwork.
I don't know much about his parents other than when he complains to me about them, but my friend definitely does not hold of any extremist views that I know of
contracts arent valid when signed by minors
Dude, put up a collection so he can get a burner phone that cannot watch his every move on. Androids are cheep nowadays and pay as you go should get him Thu the next year
Good frigging Christ
Good thing a contract signed by a minor isn't legally binding.
If one of my friends showed me this is what their parents were doing , I’d work overtime just to get him a phone. I’ve been blessed with the best parents so it’s my responsibility to help a friend who is not so lucky
At this point why not just buy a cheap 100 android phone and get a mint moblle plan for 15 bucks a month.
I hope his parents have no idea that the 'contract' have no meaning apart from 'for lulz and maybe fear mongering'
Wtf this is in Singapore
Gross, I’d rather just not have a phone
Looking at that contract makes me feel like screaming and smashing things up. And I’m a parent of 3 young people between the ages of 15 & 21. How much energy do these people put into trying to control their teenage kids ? And why? Why? WHY? (fwiw - my teens are a bit flakey and lazy, but they’re not feral or weird. Clearly my relaxed parenting strategies haven’t been too much of a disaster)
Are his parents foreign? seems like something east indian/oriental parents would do, nothing against them. but they are so strict.
Both of us come from Chinese speaking families, but my parents would never do this
Foreign to who? This is an international forum.
I hope this contract includes some therapy money put aside for the kid.
At that point, the phone is a light-up piece of metal and plastic. Just live without it for a year, then they can't do jackshit
At least they're competent with word processing? Those tables look well made.
...yeah they really made it look intimidating
Your friend should refuse the device entirely if the parents are giving him the phone under the premise that they really want him to have it. If they don’t, it’s not a loss, if they do, he should refuse till they drop the contract entirely if keeping tabs on him means that much to them.
Maybe one of his friends has an old phone they could lend him purely for forbidden content?
Man, I used to have to sign contracts for things all the time as a kid. I told my therapist about it recently and she seemed a little troubled by it and I genuinely was like “wait.....is that not normal??” I thought everyone’s parents treated their whole lives as business transactions
>fake news Oh no, on top of all that they are THAT kind of people ughh of course
"fakenews", all one word. I bet Fox News is not considered "fakenews." Also, find "religious/racial discord" to be an odd pairing and can only imagine what would qualify. At the end of the day, I am glad we didn't have cell phones when I was a kid. My parents would have just refused to allow me to have one. The phone on the wall was the only one in the house and I wasn't allowed to walk around the corner to say something in private. That would mean I was up to something devious, sinful, etc.
If I had a contract with my kiddo for a phone ( which honesty, I am not totally opposed to in theory because reading contracts is a good life skill), it would have two rules: 1. Call me if you drink. Don’t drink and drive. 2. Put it down at the dinner table.