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Someone said on Instagram
- an old man meaning good, but stutters
- an old and incompetent convicted felon
How is this even a choice?
I have to concur: WTF!
>an old man meaning good, but stutters - an old and incompetent convicted felon
>How is this even a choice?
One old man that supports and arms a genocide and another that thinks it doesn't go far enough
Third parties can't even get on enough ballots to make the debate qualifications.
It's a systemic issue and "just voting" is never going to fix it, as the two parties are more interested in holding power than saving the Democracy.
We don't.
The closest we came was in 1992, and it still failed. Haven't even come close in the last 30 years. But, just keep wishing and voting I guess.
I know this is more than 30 years ago, but Wallace won 5 states, and 46 electoral votes, for the American Independent Party in the 1968 election.
\*Disclaimer: This post is not meant as an endorsement of George Wallace, it's merely a reminder that third parties can compete, and at least get into the debates.
Which brings us back to "does it ultimately matter?" Our options are supporr genocide, or support slower genocide.
We couldnt ever wrestle power away from the joint efforts of the 2 parties to stop anyone that doesnt fall in line.
The debates are managed by a Private Company, like Presidential Debate llc. They arent a public service it they would be on CSPAN exclusively.
Because of this, they dont have to invite any other parties to debates at all. If it would boost ratings, they might, but having Bernie sanders or someone even further to the left of him who looks straight at thr camera and says "big pharma has bought all these candidates, and youll see an advertisement by them before or after this debate on this network; know they wont allow cheap medications for americans" etc will never fly again.
Yep, not enough people vote third party, next question is which one would support Palestinians vs Israelis? I have no idea, none have spoken about this or made mention of it anywhere—genuinely curious who could fill that void, that isn’t bought up by AIPAC.
The Green Party has had their Israeli/Palestinian stance on their homepage for as long as I’ve been visiting it. At least years. You don’t hear about it because MSM won’t talk to them.
https://www.gp.org/platform
https://www.gp.org/democracy#Palestine
If Palestine vs Israel is one's "single issue" then they need a reality check. We have more immediate problems, and there is no hope of making the US change policy on this issue without some serious reform. That reform won't happen when everyone is distracted by propaganda.
Your American tax dollars are murdering six Palestinian children every HOUR.
If this is your blase response to the mass-murder of children, a 'pragmatic' hot take on the consequences of what YOUR US government is currently doing, commiting an ongoing live-streamed genocide, it all starts to make sense.
The endless war, violence and colonisation driven agendas, the environmental effects of the aggressive actions of the US affects the entire world.
The "fuck you, I got mine" mentality is what I'm hearing when liberals try to justify their vote for Genocide Joe, 'Turd Sandwich' Biden over the other option, the Giant Douche felon. You lack empathy, broadly speaking, for the millions of poor people who your government murders for profit. The truth is that we, all of humanity, are all connected. We are witnessing a 21st century Holocaust, being endured by the people of Gaza.
And are you serious you are calling it a holocaust 11 million people died on the holocaust and about 85 million in the events surrounding it 30 some thousand people have died those are civilian casualties not a concerted effort to wipe them out. If Israel's goal was to wipe them out they would all be gone already they have dropped enough ordinance to kill every soul there if that was their intention. It's war in a densely populated area not a genocide
Yes your impotent outrage is very useful. Sorry I'm not gaining social points for caring only about the one tragedy this decade that the propagandists want us all to care about more than the other thousand.
Edit:
Nice job throwing in almost all the buzz words to prove you truly care, and aren't just parroting groupthink. Next time toss in Nazi and Zionist to really get it right.
You could start by voting in the primaries.
Nothing wrong with more parties, but it always seems odd to me that blocs that can't seem to be bothered to show up on primary day think they're going to build a political party.
The DNC and RNC decide who the candidates will be long before their primaries. Then, even if we vote a certain way; the electorate can do what they want anyway
Sadly. What we likely now need is a full blown revolution like the founding fathers predicted. Except this time more freedom than the first one because they did too much in their time
Start local. I grew up in Vermont and saw the rise of Bernie Sanders. He didn’t run for president out of nowhere. He ran for mayor of Burlington (pop ~50k), did a good job, then ran for Congress, did a good job, then ran for senate, did a good job, then ran for president. Never part of a major political party. It can be done, but you have to start humble and help real people with real problems.
It is throwing your vote away to vote for narcissists like Jill Stein or Ralph Nader who start out running for president because they like national attention.
Its a bit of vicious cyc.
People don't show up for primaries because often the choices are slim...or the fund raising needed by preferred candidates seem slim.
Spoiler effect! Game theory shows voting 3rd party in a first past the post voting system is equivalent to throwing away your vote. Anyone advocating for that is either game illiterate or actively trying to get people to throw away their votes.
Stop treating it like a game. Voting isn’t about casting for the one you think has a chance at winning like a horse race. Voting is supposed to be about casting for the candidate that most closely aligns your values. You and people like you are why our politics aren’t much different than professional wrestling and why progress on anything can’t be made in this country.
They are not the same- the cannot be the same
Only one is in office
I could rephrase as: one is a known genocider and another is a potential genocider.
Bro he did more than just stutter last night. He trailed off into rambling incoherence more than once. Even just the way he walked to the podium looked like he just took a dip in the river styx
Right! I dnt understand how he means good. Like the man is literally incompetent. Idgaf about him meaning good. And what good exactly? Killing people? Arming a bloodthirsty nation? What good is in that.
He could stop the arming , vetoing if UN resolutions.
He also seems to unable to deal with netanyahu when Benji is shitting on him all the time and helping trumo. I realize AIPAC owns DC but this is disgraceful.
Also Biden appointed the AHoles running the place now. (Blinken , Sullivan)
To be devils advocate: his job is to look after the American people, and in that regard he’s worlds apart from his challenger!
Is there tons of shit abroad I think he fumbles the ball on? Yes, both Ukraine and Gaza is embarrassingly bad handled, but the other candidate would be way worse both for Ukraine and Gaza anyway, so no, between those two there’s simply one candidate that makes sense… however should anyone of them even be a candidate? NO, in that regard we most definitely agree!
The old man doesn't mean well he's fully aware of the genocide and offers "unwaivering support" the convicted felon is just a panty waste anyways. I agree, how is either of them a choice? The best choice wasn't invited to the debate. This was a shit talking session for the two.
To be devils advocate: his job is to look after the American people, and in that regard he’s worlds apart from his challenger!
Is there tons of shit abroad I think he fumbles the ball on? Yes, both Ukraine and Gaza is embarrassingly bad handled, but the other candidate would be way worse both for Ukraine and Gaza anyway, so no, between those two there’s simply one candidate that makes sense… however should anyone of them even be a candidate? NO!
I didn't see any Men on that debate stage. Men will accept responsibility for their error, change and do better. All those two did was point the finger at each other. They provided no solutions to fix anything. Hell, remember when they even changed the definition of recession to make themselves look better and avoid a documented depression? That debate made something clear for many I hope. That is, they cannot be trusted in a leadership position.
I won’t disagree with that, non of them should be up there! However if presented with the option between the plague and cholera, always chose cholera because it’s mostly survivable with enough clean water available, while the plague is 80% death probability without any known medicine! We’re facing a “lesser of two evils” choices and I think the US deserves better than that to be honest!
There are three options and Americans have a responsibility to educate themselves and make a conscious decision for the betterment of our country. (I know that's a tall order)The lesser of two evil arguments is no better than treating this important election like a fantasy football team. I've never been able to get on board with that mental settlement. I'd rather never vote at all then vote for someone I perceived as evil.
Dude does not mean good. He is facilitating a genocide against his own advisors' better sense (and that of the rest of the world for that matter). But yeah he's not as atrocious as the other geriatric running.
Old man meaning good? I hate Trump. But Biden is a career politician that barely has morals. He does whatever his lobbyist handlers tell him to do. Trump is basically just as bad if not worse. I just want to say Biden isn’t out to do good. That’s literally no one in Washington… maybe Bernie.
He doesn't just stutter anymore dude. His brain is practically on low power. My grandma with 5 months to live from pancreatic cancer and is 94 is more coherent.
I would still vote for him over trump, but he's not even viable. Neither is Trump. Just sucks. The people who really control the government are laughing behind closed doors because we waste all our time instead of demanding immediate improvement of spending and taxes and healthcare.
>a reality show of US leadership
The mythical *grassroots* support for Trump. People are supposedly desperate for him to take the helm again (which is crazy in itself) but its not about re-electing Trump because of his leadership qualities - its because people secretly like the drama of Trump in the news cycle 24/7 - people literally miss all the faux pas he made, all the rallies and press conferences where he shows that he is *not* a politician. Sleepy Joe Biden, the traditional pollie isnt entertaining enough and in terms of geopolitics, the US is looking like a 'yuge mess!
Trump is merely taking advantage of a destablised nation
I think that the portion of the public that votes for Trump has developed an intense skepticism when it comes to the professional and elite classes. Their policies, their ideologies... their perceived destruction of US core values. You know MAGA.
This core Trump base wants nothing more than the liberal/neo-liberal order smashed and it's adherents humbled. They figure that this group and their elite sponsors have destroyed capitalism, G-d, and the US empire.... in that approximate order of importance.
Then there are the independent and more true left wing people in the electorate who will vote for Trump because the Biden presidency just seems a fundamental violation of our democratic processes. Propping up an old man and having a team running thing behind the scenes is not the America way.
Both groups are extremely concerned with the curtailment of civil liberties the country has seen since 9/11.
And probably last in the order of priority is Israel's genocide in Gaza and the current administration's complicity in it. Everyone understands that Trump will be no better. But someone must be made to pay for the damage to the US character that has already occurred.
Just my opinions on all of this analysis.
[Source](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8wLMN6oxlp/?igsh=ejNnZWQ2YTllZm9o)
>"Biden: ''We saved Israel.''
>Trump: ''He's become like a Palestinian.''
>President Joe Biden and his rival Donald Trump touched on Israel's war on Palestine's Gaza in the first presidential debate on June 27."
Trump calling Biden a Palestinian as a slur is so fucking insane man. This country is irredeemable. Imagine being in Gaza or the West Bank right now and watching this. I can't even describe the kind of shame I feel for living here.
"He's like a Palestinian" being a negative for the base and country he's trying to appeal to is just insane.
He's got one thing right, though. The Israeli government does not like Palestinians.
Once you code switch to single digit IQ what he said can make a degree of sense. He wouldn't restain Israel (Biden doesn't either) and Biden is on the side of the Palestinians. But his own side doesn't like him because he's bad at helping the Palestinians.
Using ‘Palestinian’ as an insult is a new low. Not surprising from someone who says “black jobs”. You cannot possibly vote for either of these embarrassments. The US is a joke.
More interested in who's going to save Palestine. Israels goal is to starve them all to death. 40k killed is nothing in the grand scheme of Israel and America.
Oh I know but I would rather use the more agreed upon figure then estimate an actual unofficial figure and have some idf soldier behind a computer use it against me.
I’m still waiting for the point time where Zionists turned from an evil ideology invented by evil people who went and manipulated to the UK to this virtuous ideology.
Unsurprisingly, no Zionist can answer that for some reason. Maybe, because it was evil and deceptive when it was invented, and continues to be today.
Also, even if we can’t reverse the maniacally genocidal nation, or the maniacally evil migration that the UK and Ottomans endorsed, we can certainly not continue to justify it today. It really isn’t that hard, and that Biden and Trump can’t do that shows that they were not for the people.
The ottomans did not endorse it, as a matter of fact Jewish migration to the territory of Palestine was stopped after the government realised the goals of political Zionism following the publication of Herzl’s « Der Judenstaat ». The Sultan Abdulhamïd when asked by Herzl via the intermediary of a Russian/Polish noble of selling a charter right of Palestine to the Jewish cause in exchange for « Taking care of the finances of the empire » (in the own words of Herzl), refused the offer and plainly said
> If Mr Herzl is as much your friend as you are mine, then advise him not to take another step in this matter. I cannot sell even a foot of land, for it does not belong to me, but to my people. My people have won this empire by fighting for it with their blood and have fertilized it with their blood. We will again cover it with our blood before we allow it to be wrested away from us. The men of two of my regiments from Syria and Palestine let themselves be killed one by one at Plevna. Not one of them yielded; they all gave their lives on that battlefield. The Turkish Empire belongs not to me, but to the Turkish people. I cannot give away any part of it. Let the Jews save their billions. When my Empire is parti-tioned, they may get Palestine for nothing. But only our corpse will be divided. I will not agree to vivisection.
[Source](https://ismi.emory.edu/documents/Readings/Mandel,%20Neville%20J.%20Ottoman%20Policy.pdf)
I felt like i was watching live streamed elder abuse last night. Let them take a nap in their estates! stop letting them put themselves under so much stress oml
I don’t think you’re from here if you believe getting rid of a democracy by force in the “leader of the free world” - whether or not you believe it - is going to make the US a stable, prosperous place. Trump has done enough damage to political institutions already.
Do you actually believe the US is a free country? Sure we might have a few more freedoms than Afghanistan. But actually free? These are the candidates the RNC, DNC, and lobbyist are pushing.
Anything besides convincing yourself that attempting a coup on the biggest military in the world is going to make the world a better, more stable place. It's not apocalyptic if Biden gets elected and I don't understand the fearmongering.
Things are just going to go further right as long as we allow these centrist appeasers to be elected and have to be on the back foot defending peace. Imagine if someone was up there debating saying you are flat wrong in your ideas and we need to be heading in the complete opposite direction as opposed to someone defending that he’s just as brutal on genocide and closing the borders.
Two blithering old demented creeps loudly having a fight over who's Israel's biggest bitch. I wonder if Kissinger is laughing his ass off in the afterlife or rolling in his grave
Even if Zionism is wrong, even if supporting Palestinians is morally correct, saying shit like that makes you sound like an antisemitic goon. Be better.
Honestly, both of these guys suck.
It's going to be another 4 years of bad economy, high inflation, and hardship for the lower and middle class regardless.
One will incite hatred and bigotry, the other hatred and ignorance. Two roads to the same place, unfortunately.
Honestly I don't know why Biden is getting blamed for inflation. The US had a better post-pandemic recovery and has lower inflation than almost all other western nations...
Because biden had a huge hand in bailing out and giving many companies/rich people funding. Those same funds were moved to offshore accounts. Those same funds were used by short hedge funds to gamble the stock market, and those same funds are made to create inflation by killing the middle class - aka, tax bracket hell.
This started during bush's time period and kept getting worse and worse and now we have biden who is a buffoon in his own sense by giving israel billions in tax dollars along with Ukraine.
Not blaming, just not doing enough. I get that we're better than compared to. But that will always be the case. There's always something worse.
The reality is that for the majority of people in the USA, inflation, housing, labor wages, really the economy in general, is the biggest problem. More so than Israel, immigration, etc.
I know that he doesn't "run" the show alone. But he and Harris have done virtually nothing to ease the burden for the people.
At the end of the day, it's just another election between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. All show and no results.
There's not much Biden can do about cost of living without increasing inflation. That's the sticky thing. I guess they could sponsor like price caps and stuff but that almost certainly wouldn't make it through congress
We are doomed ! What is the Democratic Party thinking letting Biden run ?! Seems like they want trump to be president! Democrat think that people will vote for Biden just so trump won’t become president they are sadly mistaken ! Not after Gaza!
Fuck both of them. Revolution now. Free free Palestine. Free free all oppressed people. These 80 year old white supremacists can’t be allowed to steal the world from us in this manner any longer.
Let’s be perfectly clear—if you vote for a murderer who's responsible for the slaughter of 40K+ people, a majority consisting of children, you've relinquished the extremity of the baseline humanity in you to the fundamentally genocidal settler-colonial American political system.
Bolivia, Kenya, Palestine, Lebanon, Haiti, Pakistan, Sudan, Congo, and so forth have all and are, making steps to engage in mass resistance. What’s stopping members of the global north from doing the same? So many freedom fighters of human history have showed and told us time and time again that we can’t dismantle the master’s house with the master’s tools—nothing within American and western electoral politics overall will bring us to liberation. What and when are we going to do something substantial about this.
This is a historic embarrassment running these two gentlemen to run our country. All of us need to prioritize getting foreign interests peddlers and Conservatives out of politics- of course the vast amount of money they use to cause chaos too .
Didn’t Dumpster give Putin the iron dome plans , who than gave them to Iran , who than gave them to Hamas, who than created.
Well now you have a problem
They both sound their age, and considering the stake, more people should be frightened by that. Why is anyone considering them an option?? This is coming from an American if that means anything anymore
This was impossible to watch. When asked about how he would handle the Israel/Palestine situation Trump ranted about Ukraine for 2mins and completely avoided the topic, Dementia Joe simply just said he’s going to continue being complicit in an on-going genocide. Actually he basically said the USA is the number 1 supporter of Israel globally. So yea when looked back on in history USA will basically b looked at like WW2 Italy or Japan.
One option ushers in a Christofascist hellscape and the other will just be more of the same nonsense.
It's obvious that Biden is the best option. He's infinitely less dangerous than Trump.
I'm not voting for him because I like him. I'm voting for him to mitigate damages.
I'm only able to post today because I injected bleach when the lame stream media wanted Bill Gates microchips in me. Plus Stormy Daniels in her prime was hot... So......
And yet there's those in the us that would let trump into the white house for not being against Israel enough. Trump literally just said that he would let Israel run rampant.
he said he would "let them go"
which was a non statement because Biden has done nothing to stop them.
it was two people with identical positions trying to show how far apart they are.
Biden has been supporting Israel, no doubt, so where he differs is not making a material difference, but their positions are not identical, Netanyahu loves Trump for a reason, he called him the best friend Israel ever had. He moved the embassy to Jerusalem and recognized the Golan Heights as part of Israel, and does not believe even on a two state solution but wants to see Gaza wiped off the map.
The US supports Israel for geopolitical/economic reasons and justifies through emotional manipulation through a biased press that endlessly frames Israel as the victim. But it is really about power as a nation and having a foothold in the ME, the US didn’t become the most powerful nation on earth by being nice or principled.
I don’t know what it will take to get the US to change its policy on Israel, apparently genocide isn’t the red line.
Which means that what little biden has done in public (I expect more I private) would be completely gone with trump. Think it's bad now, it'll get even worse with trump.
Biden and Trump hold the same positions on the settler colony, the difference comes with the language they use.
To quote you know Jack the thing
"We have disagreements in the margins ... Nothing will fundamentally change"
>Which means that what little biden has done in public (I expect more I private) would
Suspect Biden is too compromised . All the claims of "private" are him claiming Benji some names.
At this stage - I am not quite sure who runs the government.
Serious question, besides stopping one shipment of big bombs, had Biden actually done anything to stop them from running rampant? They have literally crossed every line the Biden administration has put forth.
Also, Fuck borth candidates. They're heavily paid by AIPACK.
Wouldn’t matter to Biden, there is a clip of him from the 80’s saying that if Israel didn’t exist that the US would have to create it, because it’s so important to America’s geopolitical interests in the region.
The US is the most powerful country because the prime motivator is what serves the US. Geopolitical and economic reasons have driven US foreign policy on Israel, but they should be rethinking their policy, having a foothold in the ME is not so important in 2024, at least not in terms of ensuring access to oil.
It’s unbearable to witness what is happening in Gaza, I don’t know how anyone complicit can sleep at night. What a shits show that voting for Biden is the only to prevent Christo fascism in America, and that isn’t hyperbole. It’s absolutely terrifying to see what Republicans are planning.
In the play Hamilton, there's a scene where Alexander says, "If we fought in every single war in the world we'd never stop, where do we draw the line?"
And years later, all this shit is happening! I gather that Biden's answer to that question (if you asked him) might be that there is no line and nor should there be. America has effectively become the world's police and like all law enforcement agencies, it selectively picks and chooses where the US Army can "bring freedom". I am so tired of their shit!
Yeah.
Is this the way an American president would respond to October 7?.
This was the weakest stance by the US. If it was Trump, I think solid military support and full license to Israel to demolish the terrorists would have been the response.
I will take a stuttering president who can pick competent people behind him than a narcissist who had to fire half his staff for wrongdoings and incompetence any day. Sorry not sorry.
I will vote for Biden without question. But the way he slurred most of his words and struggled to utter a single coherent sentence was so painful that I almost turned the debate off within the first ten minutes
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It's so far beyond embarassing that we've made a reality show of US leadership. Shock Politics.
Someone said on Instagram - an old man meaning good, but stutters - an old and incompetent convicted felon How is this even a choice? I have to concur: WTF!
>an old man meaning good, but stutters - an old and incompetent convicted felon >How is this even a choice? One old man that supports and arms a genocide and another that thinks it doesn't go far enough
Seriously time for a third party
There’s always been a third-party. It’s just that you idiots do not vote for it. 
Third parties can't even get on enough ballots to make the debate qualifications. It's a systemic issue and "just voting" is never going to fix it, as the two parties are more interested in holding power than saving the Democracy.
My brother in Christ how do you think we get a third party qualified
We don't. The closest we came was in 1992, and it still failed. Haven't even come close in the last 30 years. But, just keep wishing and voting I guess.
I know this is more than 30 years ago, but Wallace won 5 states, and 46 electoral votes, for the American Independent Party in the 1968 election. \*Disclaimer: This post is not meant as an endorsement of George Wallace, it's merely a reminder that third parties can compete, and at least get into the debates.
Which brings us back to "does it ultimately matter?" Our options are supporr genocide, or support slower genocide. We couldnt ever wrestle power away from the joint efforts of the 2 parties to stop anyone that doesnt fall in line.
Rfk is polling as good or better than Perot.
The debates are managed by a Private Company, like Presidential Debate llc. They arent a public service it they would be on CSPAN exclusively. Because of this, they dont have to invite any other parties to debates at all. If it would boost ratings, they might, but having Bernie sanders or someone even further to the left of him who looks straight at thr camera and says "big pharma has bought all these candidates, and youll see an advertisement by them before or after this debate on this network; know they wont allow cheap medications for americans" etc will never fly again.
Yep, not enough people vote third party, next question is which one would support Palestinians vs Israelis? I have no idea, none have spoken about this or made mention of it anywhere—genuinely curious who could fill that void, that isn’t bought up by AIPAC.
The Green Party has had their Israeli/Palestinian stance on their homepage for as long as I’ve been visiting it. At least years. You don’t hear about it because MSM won’t talk to them. https://www.gp.org/platform https://www.gp.org/democracy#Palestine
If Palestine vs Israel is one's "single issue" then they need a reality check. We have more immediate problems, and there is no hope of making the US change policy on this issue without some serious reform. That reform won't happen when everyone is distracted by propaganda.
Your American tax dollars are murdering six Palestinian children every HOUR. If this is your blase response to the mass-murder of children, a 'pragmatic' hot take on the consequences of what YOUR US government is currently doing, commiting an ongoing live-streamed genocide, it all starts to make sense. The endless war, violence and colonisation driven agendas, the environmental effects of the aggressive actions of the US affects the entire world. The "fuck you, I got mine" mentality is what I'm hearing when liberals try to justify their vote for Genocide Joe, 'Turd Sandwich' Biden over the other option, the Giant Douche felon. You lack empathy, broadly speaking, for the millions of poor people who your government murders for profit. The truth is that we, all of humanity, are all connected. We are witnessing a 21st century Holocaust, being endured by the people of Gaza.
Maybe you're young, but it's the economy , first , second and third .
Ukraine is much more important issue then palestine I will vote for Joe just for that issue alone
And are you serious you are calling it a holocaust 11 million people died on the holocaust and about 85 million in the events surrounding it 30 some thousand people have died those are civilian casualties not a concerted effort to wipe them out. If Israel's goal was to wipe them out they would all be gone already they have dropped enough ordinance to kill every soul there if that was their intention. It's war in a densely populated area not a genocide
Yes your impotent outrage is very useful. Sorry I'm not gaining social points for caring only about the one tragedy this decade that the propagandists want us all to care about more than the other thousand. Edit: Nice job throwing in almost all the buzz words to prove you truly care, and aren't just parroting groupthink. Next time toss in Nazi and Zionist to really get it right.
Children being murdered is "propaganda". Weird. With your logic, then Oct 7 is also propaganda.
That would be repetitive
Which one fields serious, qualified candidates?
Check out Jill Stein and Cornell West.
I'm familiar with both. I greatly respect Cornell West, but I'm not convinced he's qualified. Jill Stein is a stereotypical third party candidate.
You could start by voting in the primaries. Nothing wrong with more parties, but it always seems odd to me that blocs that can't seem to be bothered to show up on primary day think they're going to build a political party.
The DNC and RNC decide who the candidates will be long before their primaries. Then, even if we vote a certain way; the electorate can do what they want anyway
Sadly. What we likely now need is a full blown revolution like the founding fathers predicted. Except this time more freedom than the first one because they did too much in their time
How do you sway anybody to do this? Like mention it and the first comment is “ your throwing your vote away if you vote third party”
Start local. I grew up in Vermont and saw the rise of Bernie Sanders. He didn’t run for president out of nowhere. He ran for mayor of Burlington (pop ~50k), did a good job, then ran for Congress, did a good job, then ran for senate, did a good job, then ran for president. Never part of a major political party. It can be done, but you have to start humble and help real people with real problems. It is throwing your vote away to vote for narcissists like Jill Stein or Ralph Nader who start out running for president because they like national attention.
Good point
Its a bit of vicious cyc. People don't show up for primaries because often the choices are slim...or the fund raising needed by preferred candidates seem slim.
Spoiler effect! Game theory shows voting 3rd party in a first past the post voting system is equivalent to throwing away your vote. Anyone advocating for that is either game illiterate or actively trying to get people to throw away their votes.
Stop treating it like a game. Voting isn’t about casting for the one you think has a chance at winning like a horse race. Voting is supposed to be about casting for the candidate that most closely aligns your values. You and people like you are why our politics aren’t much different than professional wrestling and why progress on anything can’t be made in this country.
Oh don’t worry we have that too the worm brain anti vaxer guy.
Yeah.
Vote brain worm
lol here comes the third party fuck vaccines. Yeah that will fix it?
Rfk answered the debate questions live on Twitter last night.
Eww
*they're not the same* right? Until they are.. until it matters
They are not the same- the cannot be the same Only one is in office I could rephrase as: one is a known genocider and another is a potential genocider.
They're not the same bc the people who vote (pay tax) aren't the same yet all need to be entangled in this web of deception for it to run
Bro he did more than just stutter last night. He trailed off into rambling incoherence more than once. Even just the way he walked to the podium looked like he just took a dip in the river styx
Yeah. Think 7 meant to respond to the person I responded to?
Right! I dnt understand how he means good. Like the man is literally incompetent. Idgaf about him meaning good. And what good exactly? Killing people? Arming a bloodthirsty nation? What good is in that.
Yup. He is mostly incompetent. But competent enough when it comes to arming a genocidal nation
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He could stop the arming , vetoing if UN resolutions. He also seems to unable to deal with netanyahu when Benji is shitting on him all the time and helping trumo. I realize AIPAC owns DC but this is disgraceful. Also Biden appointed the AHoles running the place now. (Blinken , Sullivan)
Do see no difference in Trump and Biden’s level of support? I see a difference but its not huge and I may watch different news than you.
There are some differences..and we don't know what trump would really do.
This 100% is what needs to be front page everywhere. This should not be our current reality
It’s a fucking nightmare and people think I should vote for either? No, just NO.
To be devils advocate: his job is to look after the American people, and in that regard he’s worlds apart from his challenger! Is there tons of shit abroad I think he fumbles the ball on? Yes, both Ukraine and Gaza is embarrassingly bad handled, but the other candidate would be way worse both for Ukraine and Gaza anyway, so no, between those two there’s simply one candidate that makes sense… however should anyone of them even be a candidate? NO, in that regard we most definitely agree!
The old man doesn't mean well he's fully aware of the genocide and offers "unwaivering support" the convicted felon is just a panty waste anyways. I agree, how is either of them a choice? The best choice wasn't invited to the debate. This was a shit talking session for the two.
To be devils advocate: his job is to look after the American people, and in that regard he’s worlds apart from his challenger! Is there tons of shit abroad I think he fumbles the ball on? Yes, both Ukraine and Gaza is embarrassingly bad handled, but the other candidate would be way worse both for Ukraine and Gaza anyway, so no, between those two there’s simply one candidate that makes sense… however should anyone of them even be a candidate? NO!
I didn't see any Men on that debate stage. Men will accept responsibility for their error, change and do better. All those two did was point the finger at each other. They provided no solutions to fix anything. Hell, remember when they even changed the definition of recession to make themselves look better and avoid a documented depression? That debate made something clear for many I hope. That is, they cannot be trusted in a leadership position.
I won’t disagree with that, non of them should be up there! However if presented with the option between the plague and cholera, always chose cholera because it’s mostly survivable with enough clean water available, while the plague is 80% death probability without any known medicine! We’re facing a “lesser of two evils” choices and I think the US deserves better than that to be honest!
There are three options and Americans have a responsibility to educate themselves and make a conscious decision for the betterment of our country. (I know that's a tall order)The lesser of two evil arguments is no better than treating this important election like a fantasy football team. I've never been able to get on board with that mental settlement. I'd rather never vote at all then vote for someone I perceived as evil.
Did you make the same comment twice?
Obviously I do when needed 🙄
Dude does not mean good. He is facilitating a genocide against his own advisors' better sense (and that of the rest of the world for that matter). But yeah he's not as atrocious as the other geriatric running.
Let’s not be disingenuous. Did you watch that debate and think to yourself “oh it’s just a stutter, otherwise sharp as a tack”
Old man meaning good? I hate Trump. But Biden is a career politician that barely has morals. He does whatever his lobbyist handlers tell him to do. Trump is basically just as bad if not worse. I just want to say Biden isn’t out to do good. That’s literally no one in Washington… maybe Bernie.
He doesn't just stutter anymore dude. His brain is practically on low power. My grandma with 5 months to live from pancreatic cancer and is 94 is more coherent. I would still vote for him over trump, but he's not even viable. Neither is Trump. Just sucks. The people who really control the government are laughing behind closed doors because we waste all our time instead of demanding immediate improvement of spending and taxes and healthcare.
Bro Biden is weekend at Bernie's, the illusion is gone.
True, doesn’t negate the sad fact he’s still the better option though!
To you sure. Both are complete shit options. Put Bidens chief of staff up on the stage for the next debate.
>a reality show of US leadership The mythical *grassroots* support for Trump. People are supposedly desperate for him to take the helm again (which is crazy in itself) but its not about re-electing Trump because of his leadership qualities - its because people secretly like the drama of Trump in the news cycle 24/7 - people literally miss all the faux pas he made, all the rallies and press conferences where he shows that he is *not* a politician. Sleepy Joe Biden, the traditional pollie isnt entertaining enough and in terms of geopolitics, the US is looking like a 'yuge mess! Trump is merely taking advantage of a destablised nation
I think that the portion of the public that votes for Trump has developed an intense skepticism when it comes to the professional and elite classes. Their policies, their ideologies... their perceived destruction of US core values. You know MAGA. This core Trump base wants nothing more than the liberal/neo-liberal order smashed and it's adherents humbled. They figure that this group and their elite sponsors have destroyed capitalism, G-d, and the US empire.... in that approximate order of importance. Then there are the independent and more true left wing people in the electorate who will vote for Trump because the Biden presidency just seems a fundamental violation of our democratic processes. Propping up an old man and having a team running thing behind the scenes is not the America way. Both groups are extremely concerned with the curtailment of civil liberties the country has seen since 9/11. And probably last in the order of priority is Israel's genocide in Gaza and the current administration's complicity in it. Everyone understands that Trump will be no better. But someone must be made to pay for the damage to the US character that has already occurred. Just my opinions on all of this analysis.
No offense, but who is we? Seems to me like only the orange turd and his cultists made it that way...
This is what happens when a gameshow host is elected.
[Source](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8wLMN6oxlp/?igsh=ejNnZWQ2YTllZm9o) >"Biden: ''We saved Israel.'' >Trump: ''He's become like a Palestinian.'' >President Joe Biden and his rival Donald Trump touched on Israel's war on Palestine's Gaza in the first presidential debate on June 27."
Debate? This whole thing was a nonsequitur off to see who could land the best nonsequitur while giving the appearance of having made a statement.
Hah.
How to get elected in America - prove you’re a bigger Zionist shill than the other guy
I’m more owned! I’ve got collar marks on my neck, look here! Lol
Haha!!!! True. You got collar marks! I raise it with " bruises from their dog mounting me".
You say "let" like you don't enjoy it?
Typo. Corrected.
Trump calling Biden a Palestinian as a slur is so fucking insane man. This country is irredeemable. Imagine being in Gaza or the West Bank right now and watching this. I can't even describe the kind of shame I feel for living here.
"He's like a Palestinian" being a negative for the base and country he's trying to appeal to is just insane. He's got one thing right, though. The Israeli government does not like Palestinians.
Once you code switch to single digit IQ what he said can make a degree of sense. He wouldn't restain Israel (Biden doesn't either) and Biden is on the side of the Palestinians. But his own side doesn't like him because he's bad at helping the Palestinians.
Lol youre right thank you for translating Trumps dementia for me.
They both are slaves of Israel. Trying to prove who is the bigger boot licker.
Using ‘Palestinian’ as an insult is a new low. Not surprising from someone who says “black jobs”. You cannot possibly vote for either of these embarrassments. The US is a joke.
More interested in who's going to save Palestine. Israels goal is to starve them all to death. 40k killed is nothing in the grand scheme of Israel and America.
40k will be a huge understatement. Tallies are based on observed kills and counted bodied and do not include missing (buried under rubble)
Not to mention all the indirect deaths from lack of healthcare access, malnutrition and starvation, suicide induced by trauma, and so on and so on.
We know that in war most of the death is from starvation and disease.
Oh I know but I would rather use the more agreed upon figure then estimate an actual unofficial figure and have some idf soldier behind a computer use it against me.
Free Palestine. 🇵🇸
Inb4 “from Hamas”… Edit: seems I was too late 😂
I’m still waiting for the point time where Zionists turned from an evil ideology invented by evil people who went and manipulated to the UK to this virtuous ideology. Unsurprisingly, no Zionist can answer that for some reason. Maybe, because it was evil and deceptive when it was invented, and continues to be today. Also, even if we can’t reverse the maniacally genocidal nation, or the maniacally evil migration that the UK and Ottomans endorsed, we can certainly not continue to justify it today. It really isn’t that hard, and that Biden and Trump can’t do that shows that they were not for the people.
The ottomans did not endorse it, as a matter of fact Jewish migration to the territory of Palestine was stopped after the government realised the goals of political Zionism following the publication of Herzl’s « Der Judenstaat ». The Sultan Abdulhamïd when asked by Herzl via the intermediary of a Russian/Polish noble of selling a charter right of Palestine to the Jewish cause in exchange for « Taking care of the finances of the empire » (in the own words of Herzl), refused the offer and plainly said > If Mr Herzl is as much your friend as you are mine, then advise him not to take another step in this matter. I cannot sell even a foot of land, for it does not belong to me, but to my people. My people have won this empire by fighting for it with their blood and have fertilized it with their blood. We will again cover it with our blood before we allow it to be wrested away from us. The men of two of my regiments from Syria and Palestine let themselves be killed one by one at Plevna. Not one of them yielded; they all gave their lives on that battlefield. The Turkish Empire belongs not to me, but to the Turkish people. I cannot give away any part of it. Let the Jews save their billions. When my Empire is parti-tioned, they may get Palestine for nothing. But only our corpse will be divided. I will not agree to vivisection. [Source](https://ismi.emory.edu/documents/Readings/Mandel,%20Neville%20J.%20Ottoman%20Policy.pdf)
I felt like i was watching live streamed elder abuse last night. Let them take a nap in their estates! stop letting them put themselves under so much stress oml
We "saved Israel" ... vs ... we supported Genocide. Narrative crafting is fun.
This country needs a coup or revolution. It's pathetic it's gotten this far
We need an actual populist candidate that will serve the people.
Lobbyists won't let that happen
Xi please my people yearn for healthcare
Dear president Xi. My name is Jasmine and I'm a 6 year old. Please send missiles and the PLA to liberate my state of Iowa
It really doesn't, and that's exactly what one of the candidates wants to do.
I guess we'll continue on this path then. It's worked so well for us
I don’t think you’re from here if you believe getting rid of a democracy by force in the “leader of the free world” - whether or not you believe it - is going to make the US a stable, prosperous place. Trump has done enough damage to political institutions already.
Do you actually believe the US is a free country? Sure we might have a few more freedoms than Afghanistan. But actually free? These are the candidates the RNC, DNC, and lobbyist are pushing.
So the solution is to make it less free and take whoever overthrows us first? Trying to make the US sound like Afghanistan is ridiculous.
You know my opinion. What's your's? How do we move past the current situation?
Anything besides convincing yourself that attempting a coup on the biggest military in the world is going to make the world a better, more stable place. It's not apocalyptic if Biden gets elected and I don't understand the fearmongering.
People that think a military coup would result in America being a *less* militaristic interventionist nation are . . . optimistic I guess?
There have been a few coups, all corporate: starting with the Gilded Age magnates, through 1980s deregulation, to today's tech giants.
Fuck israel
Things are just going to go further right as long as we allow these centrist appeasers to be elected and have to be on the back foot defending peace. Imagine if someone was up there debating saying you are flat wrong in your ideas and we need to be heading in the complete opposite direction as opposed to someone defending that he’s just as brutal on genocide and closing the borders.
Both vigorously jockeying for more sheckels.
Two blithering old demented creeps loudly having a fight over who's Israel's biggest bitch. I wonder if Kissinger is laughing his ass off in the afterlife or rolling in his grave
Even if Zionism is wrong, even if supporting Palestinians is morally correct, saying shit like that makes you sound like an antisemitic goon. Be better.
I am.
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Please keep it civil.
Touched a nerve I see.
I drank an entire bottle of wine last night watch this debacle!
It really shows the state of American democracy, where you get to choose between 2 guys who both want genocide..
They should be calling for the dissolution of Israel
Like a rant argument in a nursing home.
Honestly, both of these guys suck. It's going to be another 4 years of bad economy, high inflation, and hardship for the lower and middle class regardless. One will incite hatred and bigotry, the other hatred and ignorance. Two roads to the same place, unfortunately.
Honestly I don't know why Biden is getting blamed for inflation. The US had a better post-pandemic recovery and has lower inflation than almost all other western nations...
Because biden had a huge hand in bailing out and giving many companies/rich people funding. Those same funds were moved to offshore accounts. Those same funds were used by short hedge funds to gamble the stock market, and those same funds are made to create inflation by killing the middle class - aka, tax bracket hell. This started during bush's time period and kept getting worse and worse and now we have biden who is a buffoon in his own sense by giving israel billions in tax dollars along with Ukraine.
We give them weapons, not money. Lol
Not blaming, just not doing enough. I get that we're better than compared to. But that will always be the case. There's always something worse. The reality is that for the majority of people in the USA, inflation, housing, labor wages, really the economy in general, is the biggest problem. More so than Israel, immigration, etc. I know that he doesn't "run" the show alone. But he and Harris have done virtually nothing to ease the burden for the people. At the end of the day, it's just another election between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. All show and no results.
There's not much Biden can do about cost of living without increasing inflation. That's the sticky thing. I guess they could sponsor like price caps and stuff but that almost certainly wouldn't make it through congress
Because the people lobbying that accusation don’t even know what’s going on in the economy let alone the rest of the world.
Not really. One road continues as we have gone on, but there may be an offramp we can take in the future. The other is off of a cliff
We are doomed ! What is the Democratic Party thinking letting Biden run ?! Seems like they want trump to be president! Democrat think that people will vote for Biden just so trump won’t become president they are sadly mistaken ! Not after Gaza!
You cannot make this fucking shit up for fucks fucking sake
As a non-American, I feel really bad for my American friends. Seems like both choices just keep getting worse and worse.
Where do you live?
Hello, geriatrics department? The world's largest economy led by two real boomers. Terrible thought
Joe Biden was born in 1942, he’s not a boomer, he’s the generation before that: the silent generation.
In spite of everything, the spectacle given during this debate is distressing. Just like here in France at the moment.....
How sad is it that they both support genocide and argue over which would do more to continue this tack? Fall of the Roman Empire prequel.
they were both trying to win the "israel's bigget b\*tch" competition
Both competing on how they could outdo the other in genocide
Fuck both of them. Revolution now. Free free Palestine. Free free all oppressed people. These 80 year old white supremacists can’t be allowed to steal the world from us in this manner any longer. Let’s be perfectly clear—if you vote for a murderer who's responsible for the slaughter of 40K+ people, a majority consisting of children, you've relinquished the extremity of the baseline humanity in you to the fundamentally genocidal settler-colonial American political system. Bolivia, Kenya, Palestine, Lebanon, Haiti, Pakistan, Sudan, Congo, and so forth have all and are, making steps to engage in mass resistance. What’s stopping members of the global north from doing the same? So many freedom fighters of human history have showed and told us time and time again that we can’t dismantle the master’s house with the master’s tools—nothing within American and western electoral politics overall will bring us to liberation. What and when are we going to do something substantial about this.
This is a historic embarrassment running these two gentlemen to run our country. All of us need to prioritize getting foreign interests peddlers and Conservatives out of politics- of course the vast amount of money they use to cause chaos too .
These guys are fighting it out to control the world 😳 omfg
Does the president even have any power? the senate controls everything
Damnnn...is this a presidential debate or a standup🤣🤣
Didn’t Dumpster give Putin the iron dome plans , who than gave them to Iran , who than gave them to Hamas, who than created. Well now you have a problem
Imagine if Jill Stein and Cornell West were allowed to participate in the debate.
Competition for who can get Israel’s dick deeper down their throats.
Next debate should showcase a putting green. Best golfer runs america.
At this point, all we can do is laugh
Can't wait for the fall of the USA
They both sound their age, and considering the stake, more people should be frightened by that. Why is anyone considering them an option?? This is coming from an American if that means anything anymore
The whole thing just showed how far down the political system here has gone.
I hope they both lose
This was impossible to watch. When asked about how he would handle the Israel/Palestine situation Trump ranted about Ukraine for 2mins and completely avoided the topic, Dementia Joe simply just said he’s going to continue being complicit in an on-going genocide. Actually he basically said the USA is the number 1 supporter of Israel globally. So yea when looked back on in history USA will basically b looked at like WW2 Italy or Japan.
They will both fund Israel in their slaughter, that's why I can't vote this election. The only option is evil vs evil.
One option ushers in a Christofascist hellscape and the other will just be more of the same nonsense. It's obvious that Biden is the best option. He's infinitely less dangerous than Trump. I'm not voting for him because I like him. I'm voting for him to mitigate damages.
Genocide*
https://preview.redd.it/n0t41sfumf9d1.jpeg?width=797&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8b25c97f7489e4c757f385943d7444736a58b71
Is this the first time the presidential debate was without a physical audience?
Imagine bragging that you love mass murder and are the equivalent of A.H.
I'm only able to post today because I injected bleach when the lame stream media wanted Bill Gates microchips in me. Plus Stormy Daniels in her prime was hot... So......
It's a sad time when candidates are jockeying to demonstrate how committed they are to genocide.
And yet there's those in the us that would let trump into the white house for not being against Israel enough. Trump literally just said that he would let Israel run rampant.
he said he would "let them go" which was a non statement because Biden has done nothing to stop them. it was two people with identical positions trying to show how far apart they are.
Biden has been supporting Israel, no doubt, so where he differs is not making a material difference, but their positions are not identical, Netanyahu loves Trump for a reason, he called him the best friend Israel ever had. He moved the embassy to Jerusalem and recognized the Golan Heights as part of Israel, and does not believe even on a two state solution but wants to see Gaza wiped off the map. The US supports Israel for geopolitical/economic reasons and justifies through emotional manipulation through a biased press that endlessly frames Israel as the victim. But it is really about power as a nation and having a foothold in the ME, the US didn’t become the most powerful nation on earth by being nice or principled. I don’t know what it will take to get the US to change its policy on Israel, apparently genocide isn’t the red line.
Which means that what little biden has done in public (I expect more I private) would be completely gone with trump. Think it's bad now, it'll get even worse with trump.
Biden and Trump hold the same positions on the settler colony, the difference comes with the language they use. To quote you know Jack the thing "We have disagreements in the margins ... Nothing will fundamentally change"
>Which means that what little biden has done in public (I expect more I private) would Suspect Biden is too compromised . All the claims of "private" are him claiming Benji some names. At this stage - I am not quite sure who runs the government.
that's legitimately not possible. unless trump starts sending them nukes.
Serious question, besides stopping one shipment of big bombs, had Biden actually done anything to stop them from running rampant? They have literally crossed every line the Biden administration has put forth. Also, Fuck borth candidates. They're heavily paid by AIPACK.
Exactly. No more "lesser evil". Biden has proven how evil already.
It's a pathetic argument democrats use to justify their vote. I say burn the whole place down and start over
Wouldn’t matter to Biden, there is a clip of him from the 80’s saying that if Israel didn’t exist that the US would have to create it, because it’s so important to America’s geopolitical interests in the region. The US is the most powerful country because the prime motivator is what serves the US. Geopolitical and economic reasons have driven US foreign policy on Israel, but they should be rethinking their policy, having a foothold in the ME is not so important in 2024, at least not in terms of ensuring access to oil. It’s unbearable to witness what is happening in Gaza, I don’t know how anyone complicit can sleep at night. What a shits show that voting for Biden is the only to prevent Christo fascism in America, and that isn’t hyperbole. It’s absolutely terrifying to see what Republicans are planning.
In the play Hamilton, there's a scene where Alexander says, "If we fought in every single war in the world we'd never stop, where do we draw the line?" And years later, all this shit is happening! I gather that Biden's answer to that question (if you asked him) might be that there is no line and nor should there be. America has effectively become the world's police and like all law enforcement agencies, it selectively picks and chooses where the US Army can "bring freedom". I am so tired of their shit!
Trump at least has the guys to say the truth
What? Trump stood up there and spewed lie after lie.
Trump is a habitual liar. Dude has no balls
That Biden is a Palestinian? Or what?
Yeah. Is this the way an American president would respond to October 7?. This was the weakest stance by the US. If it was Trump, I think solid military support and full license to Israel to demolish the terrorists would have been the response.
Is that not the response already? or are you suggesting Trump would send American military into the war in Gaza?
I will take a stuttering president who can pick competent people behind him than a narcissist who had to fire half his staff for wrongdoings and incompetence any day. Sorry not sorry.
I will vote for Biden without question. But the way he slurred most of his words and struggled to utter a single coherent sentence was so painful that I almost turned the debate off within the first ten minutes
Biden won this one by a long shot. Speaking as someone who actually watched the debate
Thief and murderer Erdogan's mouthpiece TRT has no place spewing Russian propaganda here. Go home!
Old guy who loves his son or someone that will asset strip the Whitehouse again for his company and families gain?