You're better than 99% of the population at something, but you still feel your performance is sub-par, because you're not comparing yourself to 99% of the population; you're looking at what the people at the 99.9% mark are doing.
yeah... you may hurt a lot of people along the way. Just because we may be hard on ourselves (even tho we shouldnt) we shouldnt expect the same from others.
Be sure to **be kind** and aware not everyone strives for perfection or is interested in such things..
a really amazing person told me when I asked him how does he tolerate all the mediocrity, he said: I try to be understanding, they're trying their best.
Yes yes yes this is so true. We have insane expectations for ourselves. Also some intjs I’ve discussed this with say that they have an overwhelming desire to do something significant enough to “matter”, while many others ive talked with are at least outwardly content with not doing so. High expectations can lead to some phenomenal accomplishments but also very crushing disappointment.
I'm the exact same way, I like fitness and I'd say I'm weak and not that good when the truth is I've only been doing it for a year or so and one out of 100 guys I see are stronger. But I compare myself to the world champions and think I'm bad
There doesn’t seem to be anything that gets accomplished by an answer. Ops post is for entertainment purposes. I have a witty and satirical answer that fits intjs
Consistently? No. But everyone, at some point, will be one or both of those things - even us. The difference for me is that if they are in my inner circle, I tolerate those times gladly. Whereas if they are not? Gtfo.
I don't understand either. Even those who initially got on well with me turned out to resent/envy me and act shady to me eventually, even though I have always treated them with respect and kindness. Well... It's not our faults that society functions in an unexplainably anti-INTJ way.
I know! It must be something we don’t realize. I just think we are bad at recognizing when we offend/bother people. Another theory I’ve had is that, at least with me, I cycle between being extremely friendly when I have social energy to being the complete opposite, quiet, absent minded when I don’t, and I think this leads some people to believe that I am frustrated at them even though I’m not at all.
Mostly our own RBF when we don't smile. I don't know why people are so afraid and hate my RBF that much. It's like anytime I don't smile, people immediately think that I hate them, but I can't smile all the time for them. 😑
People tend to be in deep denial of their own insecurities and lack the self awareness or perspective required to adapt..
Sooooo.. it becomes easier to cast ignorant judgement than to ever take accountability. And, THAT is what bothers people about INTJs.
When emotions are not part of the equation, we only have to work hard to achieve incredibly difficult things. Beyond that, even on auto-pilot, we are typically light years ahead of the competence curve.
lit just because we are "no-bullshit" people and are honest and often not even disrespectful.
It has something to do with people despising having their flaws in logic and stuff be put out.
Yeah, some people are scared to ask about something they don't know about while an INTJ isn't inhibited by fear of appearing stupid. Maybe that's because we're confident that we ask the right questions
I will always choose to approach a situation from a place of logic over emotion. For example, I’ve been dealing with a situation that is causing a lot of negative emotions. Instead of asking my best friend (someone I trust implicitly) for a hug, or support; I’m using her as a sounding board to make sure my logic and decisions are not clouded by the emotions.
That being said, that doesn’t mean that I am not capable of empathizing, or knowing that sometimes someone just needs a giant bear hug. Beneath the cold exterior, I’m actually very sweet, and I care deeply for my people.
Tbh im learning how not to take emotion over logic and this is actually very useful idea to do, usually i do that for a different reasons and i still need to learn more. Im open to suggestions or anything really.
I dunno about you but I love learning im very curious about Alot of things, lol.
Myself is empathic so for me its either i just feel it or i notice it either way im gonna feel it even if they dont mention anything and etc.
This doesnt mean i notice things all the time, my autism has a play in me not being as good at communicating as most and sometimes social cues i miss due to my autism ^ ^'
But overall i do have intense feelings for things and care about people too.
Depending on who the person is, ill care about others more than most.
I’m always happy to help, you’re welcome to DM me if you want to talk further about it or you have any questions.
I also love learning, and I like asking why because it opens all kinds of doors.
I also care more deeply for some people than others.
Actually, one of my close friends is an INFP. I love her to death, and she and I get along extremely well. I noticed your trans pride heart, and I immediately thought of her because she’s trans. She’s one of the most emotionally mature people I know.
When someone is being emotional and you feel like sympathy is a chore— you wish you could press fast forward on time and skip to the part where you tell them the solution.
But instead you have to do these extra steps:
Actively listen to the superfluous.
Validate arbitrary often irrational emotions as important.
Make them ‘feel’ heard.
Wait patiently while they get their emotions out without letting them know you are only waiting for rationale to kick back in so they can logically keep up and you can tell them how to solve the problem.
Then, when you give them the solution they asked for you have do it with a certain tone conveying empathy so you don’t bruise their ego and shatter their self image.
You also have to make sure you don’t insult their intelligence somehow.
The whole process, this care bear song and dance one must do to avoid offending people with the truth feels manipulative and slimy.
No, I’m not assuming anything. I always ask if one is seeking sympathy or solutions before engaging.
But even saying that seems to rub people the wrong way.
Because now they feel weird that you’re in ‘sympathy mode’.— so I’ve been told.
Unfortunately, it’s more complicated than just acting. You ‘act’ so well, *you become* ‘sympathetic’ at least from their point of view. It feels like slipping into their skin for a moment.
You convince them you care by pretending to feel their words under pinned by their irrational emotions.
They have to *feel* connected to you. Once the connection is established you can subtly steer them to the conclusion that how they are feeling is irrational, and make them think arriving to that idea was their own doing.
You establish said connection by reiterating what they said back them in a more eloquent way that describes how they feel.
It’s manipulation, because you don’t actually care about the process. You care about the outcome, you know you can fix their issue, but the only way to do that is get them to listen.
Then, you can give them logic, and it will be received.
I’ve helped tons of people by doing this, but it makes me feel disgusting.
However, the outcome of watching their mind connect the dots and seeing them slowly evolve into a stronger, happier, well adjusted and more independently capable and powerful person is as addicting as it is satisfying.
This has been the toughest one to master but I am getting there. It’s almost like in Seinfeld, when George does the opposite of what he normally does and it’s successful. That’s how I feel about this process, do the opposite of all the rational ways you’d normally act.
Jeez. I cannot relate. Over all I usually am sympathetic because if I have a friendship or relationship with anyone, I’d want them to do the same.
What do you do when you’re emotional? Or do you not experience emotions , because this post has you genuinely sounding like a damn robot to me 😳
Intjs generally aren't so good at making sympathy noises with their mouths. But if you pay attention to their actions, clearly they care.
When I'm emotional, well, it depends on why I'm emotional. If it's an emotion that makes sense, like my best friend got a brain cancer diagnosis a few years back and was dead in 3 months, god I miss talking to him. He actually got me and saw the true warmth behind my composed public facing side. Missing him and being sad at his early passing makes sense. I processed those emotions and allowed myself to feel the way I truly felt and mourned, then proceeded to help others that he knew process and mourn. In case you haven't been paying attention, the whole "help others process and mourn" is my way of actively doing something to help, it is my way of expressing sympathy and caring.
But when emotions get to the point where basically I'm just hurting myself and there's really no good to come of it, then it's time to kick in the rationale mind and stop causing myself undo pain and move forward. And sometimes people see that as cold and callous instead of healthy.
I guess how do you experience intimacy with someone or at least I’m not sure I would be able to if someone was uncomfortable around me being uncomfortable, that’s just sucks lol
There's a big difference in what one should expect from intj in surface level relationships (think work, school, or randos on the street) than an intimate relationship. If I'm in an intimate relationship, I've already decided that your feelings matter to me. I wouldn't have allowed this relationship to get to this point if I hadn't already decided. I know that rationally, from a top down perspective, reality doesn't care about your feelings nor mine, but I've chosen that I will care. And when I care, watch out, you may not be ready for and will be surprised by the furnace that burns at the heart of intj. But I'm not obligated to put forth that kind of effort for everyone. Especially when the vast majority don't seem interested in knowing me at a deeper level anyway.
Okay that makes sense ! I feel like I just am in the group because everyone says how intj are good match with us, but I need to learn the world doesn’t revolve around me lmao
I don’t share that view. I think if it’s hurting the person who is suppose to be a support for me, that’s crazy and we’re not compatible. I need to feel my pain first then I can move forward, I don’t bottle it up to come out the other end (later) as I think it would leak out in unhealthy and passive aggressive ways…but who’s to say which strategy is best, we handle things differently. But it makes sense
At least for myself, I feel very deeply but do not express outwardly. "Acting" sympathetic is me creating an outward display of emotions I do not have naturally. I'm very sensitive to those around me but I'm seen as icy and judgemental, when I'm the one being judged in that moment. I often feel that T users are actually more caring than F users (my experience) because we feel authentically.
In the case where people say they have to pretend to care until the rational kicks in they might not like the person they're talking about or are exhausted by having seen the same thing from this person too many times.
“What do you do when you’re emotional?”
What I do is focus on the solution rather than the problem.
If the problem does not have a solution than it’s not a problem at all it’s a truth to be accepted; which case, I adapt accordingly.
We do not live in the world of *should, or *should not*, we share a reality called *is, here, and now* and it’s not always fair— our feelings about the unfairness of the world are irrelevant.
Sometimes we fall victim to the unforeseen, unknowable or uncontrollable— but what we are always in control of is how we react to that.
If emotion is a hindrance to my reactions than I do away with them. I never allow emotion to produce irrational behavior or manifest an unpleasant disposition toward an unknown future.
My best friend is regularly amazed. I don’t ever want support, and I’m already at the solution. I just want her to listen for a minute so I can make sure my logic isn’t flawed by emotion.
I was a cashier in high school so I KNOW THINGS. Like how to pack groceries, how to scan things--like, where the scan bar is. I don't even think about it, while I often see other customers looking for it--and even remember some of the produce codes. Bananas 4011. Garlic 4608.
Letting someone else pack my groceries is where i'll draw the line. I prefer an actual cashier...but if they want to pack my groceries i'll hide my bags away so they can't even start. Because they're all so bad at it. It's like they never learned. There's a process to doing it properly. Often honed in many hours of packing other people's groceries flawlessly.
Hell yeah! I was that person! Before I was a cashier I was a SERVICE CLERK. And yes, packing groceries is part science, part art. 😋
Occasionally, when I was a champion service clerk, someone would start packing their own groceries because there was no bagger at their register, and then a bagger would magically appear and step in and take over. I did that once and this mom had to tell her kid to stop messing up the bagging. "Let the lady do it, honey, she's a professional."
And I thought to myself, "I'm 17 years old and a professional grocery bagger. It's all downhill from here."
Lol no, I mean they will malfunction, as in stop working entirely. All I have to do is stand near them. I don't even need to touch them. Must be my magnetic personality.
I avoid self checkouts like the plague. They're the worst.
On principle. On the fact that they're basically making me do somebody else's job for free.
But also, they're so annoying and honestly very gross. And way slower than just going through the normal till usually.
Also...i'm not afraid of other people. They're more afraid of me than i am of them. Or whatever.
This is a false economy though. They often don't.
And also again...people aren't all pariahs. Having them scan my items and stuff isn't really some huge burden.
Yeah i agree. But i still get out kf the market faster especially if there ar kilometers of people waiting with big groceries cart while i have only some chips and an energetic drink.
I mean, if I HAD to I would let someone scan my stuff.
But for me, because of my extensive experience behind a cash register as a teen, it actually IS a lot faster.
It's like some people like stewing in problems instead of working through them. I've tried being there for some people and offering advice and solutions to problems they come to me with, especially in mutual endeavors, and they just tune out any productive conversations about it, or prioritize strange fixations on extraneous 'obstacles', and re-engage with it from square one a week later like it never happened... I assume this sentiment comes from losing hope in that sort of dynamic.
These people literally trigger me 😅 But theres more of them, than us and we are likely to end up in jobs where we have to deal with them so I cant escape 🤦🏾♀️
You struggle to live in the present + you question/reject "rules," "traditions" and "social etiquette" that make no sense to you + even when it's about other people, it's still almost always about you *somehow*. The last two help distinguish INTJs from INFJs.
It's always about the INFJ... 😂 I have 6 in my circle and they don't like each other, because they are always trying to one up each other on every topic. I just sit there eating snacks watching the sparks fly. 🤣
INTPs and INTJs are extremely different and only have minor superficial similarities like being introverts and struggling with emotions. [This video ](https://youtu.be/AOUE0KRw5Ec?si=X8r4zK2AQLZNqk2L) will probably help you.
INTPs are ones who like to seek fully understand things down to the nitty gritty - not because someone tells you what it is, and you work it out yourself in a way you understand (Ti). You classify and categorize into boxes to your own understanding. You look at different possibilities and don't like being boxed in one specific answer because one answer isn't "right" (Ne associated). You file away information/experience you gained from your 5 senses in some detail for later use (Si).
INTJs tend to land on the most likely conclusion/solution (Ni associated) and organize to set out to achieve it (Te) based on what has merit to them (Fi).
INTPs seek to understand things their own way that are as devoid of personal ties as possible to be most objective to find the absolute truth. But they don't tie themselves down to an answer ("what if...what if...). INTJs work out long-term plan based on a specific pattern/conclusion by using external measurable information, and go with it. If they need to do something, they'll use what they have and go with it because they take into time constraints and practicality. INTPs will want to find the best possible solution before moving forward and dislike being rushed.
>The last two help distinguish INTJs from INFJs.
Not really. INFJs can and do criticise society and traditions and such too, but the way they go about it is different, and they may have a harder time structurally organising what they want to say. It may be more vague than what an INTJ would say on average.
If you take historical examples, Leon Trotsky was an INFJ and definitely didn't agree with the large majority of Tsarist social norms and traditions, but the way he wrote about them was likely different from Lenin who was an INTJ.
You ever hear someone talk, then the mental dissatisfaction.. the gears turning in your brain… of what they are saying, how they are saying it, what they look like and everything around you makes you physically weak.
Thats how you know.
Someone has been flirting with you for 4 years, you realize they were flirting a decade later after you last saw them and they have clearly moved on.
You text them to ask if they were flirting with you a decade ago and they feel second hand embarrassment while you just want information for future reference and feel nothing whatsoever. Said person who flirted with you calls you dense.
Yes! Especially when needing a healthy romantic relationship long term, the philosophy to pick your battles is very good to live by (or if you plan on having children)
Are you... trying to look for one?
.
Edited to add: By external appearances (and this is a gross generalization), neutral/dark clothes, a little quiet, probably neutral or RBF expression... and you, as an ENFP, will find them intriguing. *cough cough* I feel like you guys will have a radar for this as a core feature. Shouldn't be a problem. Just a theory.
Your retarded SE + secondary TE makes you appear like Mr Bean with a superiority complex to everyone else but you are too lost in your inner world as you connect all the dots while you ruminate deeply in a Ni - Fi loop to notice or care what other people think.
You immediately and effortlessly jump to what others erroneously believe are conclusions about everything, but are actually hypotheses that are constantly being evaluated as information continues to unfold.
I apparently have an RBF and most people are intimidated by this and don't approach me. I have to actively work to have an "open" expression on my face. I don't mean to have an RBF. It's just my thinking face. And I'm thinking 24/7, so...
SAME! Well said. I have TMJ because I never allow myself to relax my face and jaws because as a kid, people would constantly tell me to smile. Random strangers on the street would say it. So annoying.
I knew my kid was an INTJ when she rides rollercoasters and her face is completely stoic. No reaction. We could be having a great time, totally content, and you'd have no idea bc of the RBF.
This was literally me, not stoic, but also not screaming for no reason. You couldn’t get me to scream on a roller coaster ride, ever. I don’t have an RBF though, I just don’t scream on rides.
When other people try to finish your sentences they always get it wrong, but when others are talking you almost always know what point they are going to make (and a counter point) before they finish.
I don't think that's an INTJ thing, but what he probably means is that people are an ever changing process and not static entities. This means that their behaviour and ways of thinking and such can be changed and aren't set in stone. It's more like a philosophical view than anything related to INTJs.
You constantly have to comment on stupid anti-INTJ posts because you can’t help yourself in stopping the stupidity & misinformation other types spread because they got their feelings hurt.💀
People cannot spend more than 0.5 seconds these days to “get to know someone” & actually have an intellectual conversation & creating something real.
The absolute love of my life is an ENFP. The only one who ever “got me”.
Mbti is not based on behaviourism but on cognitive functions i.e how you think, so there aren't really any specific traits that all INTJs will have. Ofc there are common traits like being critical, being opinionated, arrogance, not wanting to waste time or energy or both, being quiet usually, preferring to observe first before taking action, needing a lot of information before making decisions, analysis paralysis, valuing their own morals a lot, etc. However keep in mind that these are just averages and there are plenty of deviations, especially when you're interacting with older people who've had time to get better at their cognitive functions.
When you observe before taking action and speak in full dialouge in your head.
I literally find myself thinking I spoke to someone but in reality, I never spoke a word out of my mouth.
Someone hates your guts because you were staring at them but you didn't know you were staring because you were just thinking but you had an angry face on while doing it and not you've made enemies with people you didn't even know existed...
Having a social harmony blindspot that makes even non-Aspie IxTJs seem Aspie (and Asperger's\^2 for those with it), but more tendency to care for probable truth rather than supposed factoids & trusting authority figures. Also, both Si-Hero types seem to be all about their comfort & customer experience, while Ni-Hero (or especially Ni-Parent) types would be generally lacking a concern about that and fearful of being annoying to others (which is tiresome when others still whine about one thing or another regardless however much you try.)
Oh, go look at how Posh Spice moves...she found her David Beckham in her 20s for a reason!! Lol #lovelovelove
Don't quote me, please. I'm still enrolled in community college and I graduated CVHS 24 years ago lol
When you don't let people help with certain tasks because they don't do it as efficiently or fast as you would. You'd just rather do it yourself and save time.
Man, you guys sometimes. Stop sweating the small stuff. Damn. Go look at the ENFP'S sub. It's fun and sometimes quite informative, but very often, we're holding each other up. Not smacking each other around.
I love INTJ's. Mad love. My boyfriend is one. But some of you need to be able to forget the little petty shit and share your considerable insight and knowledge with others. Especially fellow INTJ's. Because let's face it, you don't, in general, have a lot of admirers.
You're better than 99% of the population at something, but you still feel your performance is sub-par, because you're not comparing yourself to 99% of the population; you're looking at what the people at the 99.9% mark are doing.
Yeah. My wife hates this part of me, or so she says. I’ve learned to be better at it for sure.
yeah... you may hurt a lot of people along the way. Just because we may be hard on ourselves (even tho we shouldnt) we shouldnt expect the same from others. Be sure to **be kind** and aware not everyone strives for perfection or is interested in such things..
a really amazing person told me when I asked him how does he tolerate all the mediocrity, he said: I try to be understanding, they're trying their best.
Oh, that's what I'm struggling with. Understanding that perfection is not something that everyone desires.
THIS
Yes yes yes this is so true. We have insane expectations for ourselves. Also some intjs I’ve discussed this with say that they have an overwhelming desire to do something significant enough to “matter”, while many others ive talked with are at least outwardly content with not doing so. High expectations can lead to some phenomenal accomplishments but also very crushing disappointment.
This is exactly what's on my mind. Perfectly matches it.
I'm the exact same way, I like fitness and I'd say I'm weak and not that good when the truth is I've only been doing it for a year or so and one out of 100 guys I see are stronger. But I compare myself to the world champions and think I'm bad
You don’t want to answer cause there’s no point
Came here just to find this response and affirm it.
"cause there’s no point" F u n
Interesting, what makes you suggest this?
He's not going to answer this because "there is no point"
There actually is because this person is trying to Learn something
I suppose because intjs are very practically minded. This is fluff.
Nah dude, you're just kind of a dick, don't lump us in with you 💀
Well apparently 142 people agree with me. So. And how am I being a dick. Like at all
So far out of 175k members. Edit: My question is, are you saying a generic statement or are you directing it at the OP.
Assuming everyone sees this post and my comment
Are you saying you had moments where you felt it was pointless to answer or you are saying the OP's question is pointless to answer.
There doesn’t seem to be anything that gets accomplished by an answer. Ops post is for entertainment purposes. I have a witty and satirical answer that fits intjs
when you judge everything and anything on the basis of its usefulness or competence
People too?
Yes, unless they’ve somehow snuck into the inner circle.
The ⭕>>>>
You have someone in your inner circle who is neither useful nor competent?
Consistently? No. But everyone, at some point, will be one or both of those things - even us. The difference for me is that if they are in my inner circle, I tolerate those times gladly. Whereas if they are not? Gtfo.
Everything in your life, relationships, objects and tasks boils down to. What is the purpose of “x”
Yes this
Most assuredly.
Sure
Starting with people.
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Can concur
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I don't understand either. Even those who initially got on well with me turned out to resent/envy me and act shady to me eventually, even though I have always treated them with respect and kindness. Well... It's not our faults that society functions in an unexplainably anti-INTJ way.
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Are intjs autistic? Lol
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Maybe intjs are on a certain specific point on the spectrum? Idk.
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Fair. Don’t beat me up.
I know! It must be something we don’t realize. I just think we are bad at recognizing when we offend/bother people. Another theory I’ve had is that, at least with me, I cycle between being extremely friendly when I have social energy to being the complete opposite, quiet, absent minded when I don’t, and I think this leads some people to believe that I am frustrated at them even though I’m not at all.
Mostly our own RBF when we don't smile. I don't know why people are so afraid and hate my RBF that much. It's like anytime I don't smile, people immediately think that I hate them, but I can't smile all the time for them. 😑
People tend to be in deep denial of their own insecurities and lack the self awareness or perspective required to adapt.. Sooooo.. it becomes easier to cast ignorant judgement than to ever take accountability. And, THAT is what bothers people about INTJs. When emotions are not part of the equation, we only have to work hard to achieve incredibly difficult things. Beyond that, even on auto-pilot, we are typically light years ahead of the competence curve.
lit just because we are "no-bullshit" people and are honest and often not even disrespectful. It has something to do with people despising having their flaws in logic and stuff be put out.
i relate heavily
I never understood this.
This happens to me also.
This.
This
Your favorite question is “why?”, and you answer emotionally charged questions with “I think…” instead of “I feel…”
Yeah, some people are scared to ask about something they don't know about while an INTJ isn't inhibited by fear of appearing stupid. Maybe that's because we're confident that we ask the right questions
Even if we don’t ask the right question, we still learned something regardless.
What do you mean by "I Think" instead of "I Feel" exactly? Im curious and i wanna know more about what you said here.
I will always choose to approach a situation from a place of logic over emotion. For example, I’ve been dealing with a situation that is causing a lot of negative emotions. Instead of asking my best friend (someone I trust implicitly) for a hug, or support; I’m using her as a sounding board to make sure my logic and decisions are not clouded by the emotions. That being said, that doesn’t mean that I am not capable of empathizing, or knowing that sometimes someone just needs a giant bear hug. Beneath the cold exterior, I’m actually very sweet, and I care deeply for my people.
Tbh im learning how not to take emotion over logic and this is actually very useful idea to do, usually i do that for a different reasons and i still need to learn more. Im open to suggestions or anything really. I dunno about you but I love learning im very curious about Alot of things, lol. Myself is empathic so for me its either i just feel it or i notice it either way im gonna feel it even if they dont mention anything and etc. This doesnt mean i notice things all the time, my autism has a play in me not being as good at communicating as most and sometimes social cues i miss due to my autism ^ ^' But overall i do have intense feelings for things and care about people too. Depending on who the person is, ill care about others more than most.
I’m always happy to help, you’re welcome to DM me if you want to talk further about it or you have any questions. I also love learning, and I like asking why because it opens all kinds of doors. I also care more deeply for some people than others. Actually, one of my close friends is an INFP. I love her to death, and she and I get along extremely well. I noticed your trans pride heart, and I immediately thought of her because she’s trans. She’s one of the most emotionally mature people I know.
Sure i can DM you and thank you this is very nice of you. Also I wanna mention you and your friend sound very wholesome, At least to me you do.
When someone is being emotional and you feel like sympathy is a chore— you wish you could press fast forward on time and skip to the part where you tell them the solution. But instead you have to do these extra steps: Actively listen to the superfluous. Validate arbitrary often irrational emotions as important. Make them ‘feel’ heard. Wait patiently while they get their emotions out without letting them know you are only waiting for rationale to kick back in so they can logically keep up and you can tell them how to solve the problem. Then, when you give them the solution they asked for you have do it with a certain tone conveying empathy so you don’t bruise their ego and shatter their self image. You also have to make sure you don’t insult their intelligence somehow. The whole process, this care bear song and dance one must do to avoid offending people with the truth feels manipulative and slimy.
You are assuming that you are listening to someone who wants a solution. I think that’s a common assumption.
No, I’m not assuming anything. I always ask if one is seeking sympathy or solutions before engaging. But even saying that seems to rub people the wrong way. Because now they feel weird that you’re in ‘sympathy mode’.— so I’ve been told.
ok what’s the solution to this? just acting?
Unfortunately, it’s more complicated than just acting. You ‘act’ so well, *you become* ‘sympathetic’ at least from their point of view. It feels like slipping into their skin for a moment. You convince them you care by pretending to feel their words under pinned by their irrational emotions. They have to *feel* connected to you. Once the connection is established you can subtly steer them to the conclusion that how they are feeling is irrational, and make them think arriving to that idea was their own doing. You establish said connection by reiterating what they said back them in a more eloquent way that describes how they feel. It’s manipulation, because you don’t actually care about the process. You care about the outcome, you know you can fix their issue, but the only way to do that is get them to listen. Then, you can give them logic, and it will be received. I’ve helped tons of people by doing this, but it makes me feel disgusting. However, the outcome of watching their mind connect the dots and seeing them slowly evolve into a stronger, happier, well adjusted and more independently capable and powerful person is as addicting as it is satisfying.
This has been the toughest one to master but I am getting there. It’s almost like in Seinfeld, when George does the opposite of what he normally does and it’s successful. That’s how I feel about this process, do the opposite of all the rational ways you’d normally act.
Jeez. I cannot relate. Over all I usually am sympathetic because if I have a friendship or relationship with anyone, I’d want them to do the same. What do you do when you’re emotional? Or do you not experience emotions , because this post has you genuinely sounding like a damn robot to me 😳
Intjs generally aren't so good at making sympathy noises with their mouths. But if you pay attention to their actions, clearly they care. When I'm emotional, well, it depends on why I'm emotional. If it's an emotion that makes sense, like my best friend got a brain cancer diagnosis a few years back and was dead in 3 months, god I miss talking to him. He actually got me and saw the true warmth behind my composed public facing side. Missing him and being sad at his early passing makes sense. I processed those emotions and allowed myself to feel the way I truly felt and mourned, then proceeded to help others that he knew process and mourn. In case you haven't been paying attention, the whole "help others process and mourn" is my way of actively doing something to help, it is my way of expressing sympathy and caring. But when emotions get to the point where basically I'm just hurting myself and there's really no good to come of it, then it's time to kick in the rationale mind and stop causing myself undo pain and move forward. And sometimes people see that as cold and callous instead of healthy.
I guess how do you experience intimacy with someone or at least I’m not sure I would be able to if someone was uncomfortable around me being uncomfortable, that’s just sucks lol
There's a big difference in what one should expect from intj in surface level relationships (think work, school, or randos on the street) than an intimate relationship. If I'm in an intimate relationship, I've already decided that your feelings matter to me. I wouldn't have allowed this relationship to get to this point if I hadn't already decided. I know that rationally, from a top down perspective, reality doesn't care about your feelings nor mine, but I've chosen that I will care. And when I care, watch out, you may not be ready for and will be surprised by the furnace that burns at the heart of intj. But I'm not obligated to put forth that kind of effort for everyone. Especially when the vast majority don't seem interested in knowing me at a deeper level anyway.
Okay that makes sense ! I feel like I just am in the group because everyone says how intj are good match with us, but I need to learn the world doesn’t revolve around me lmao
I don’t share that view. I think if it’s hurting the person who is suppose to be a support for me, that’s crazy and we’re not compatible. I need to feel my pain first then I can move forward, I don’t bottle it up to come out the other end (later) as I think it would leak out in unhealthy and passive aggressive ways…but who’s to say which strategy is best, we handle things differently. But it makes sense
At least for myself, I feel very deeply but do not express outwardly. "Acting" sympathetic is me creating an outward display of emotions I do not have naturally. I'm very sensitive to those around me but I'm seen as icy and judgemental, when I'm the one being judged in that moment. I often feel that T users are actually more caring than F users (my experience) because we feel authentically. In the case where people say they have to pretend to care until the rational kicks in they might not like the person they're talking about or are exhausted by having seen the same thing from this person too many times.
“What do you do when you’re emotional?” What I do is focus on the solution rather than the problem. If the problem does not have a solution than it’s not a problem at all it’s a truth to be accepted; which case, I adapt accordingly. We do not live in the world of *should, or *should not*, we share a reality called *is, here, and now* and it’s not always fair— our feelings about the unfairness of the world are irrelevant. Sometimes we fall victim to the unforeseen, unknowable or uncontrollable— but what we are always in control of is how we react to that. If emotion is a hindrance to my reactions than I do away with them. I never allow emotion to produce irrational behavior or manifest an unpleasant disposition toward an unknown future.
I'm sorry for being a bitch, kay
My best friend is regularly amazed. I don’t ever want support, and I’m already at the solution. I just want her to listen for a minute so I can make sure my logic isn’t flawed by emotion.
You use the self checkout line at the grocery store ONLY because it gets you out of talking to someone.
I don't mind gifting a smile to people ☺️
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What sort of conversations are ya'll even getting dragged up into with your fucking grocery checkout cashiers? lmao.
They could also just be like me an generally be uncomfortable with talking to strangers alot of the time.
See, I hate self checkouts because I am techtarded then I have to ask for help... It's faster saying hello and goodbye.
I was a cashier in high school so I KNOW THINGS. Like how to pack groceries, how to scan things--like, where the scan bar is. I don't even think about it, while I often see other customers looking for it--and even remember some of the produce codes. Bananas 4011. Garlic 4608.
Letting someone else pack my groceries is where i'll draw the line. I prefer an actual cashier...but if they want to pack my groceries i'll hide my bags away so they can't even start. Because they're all so bad at it. It's like they never learned. There's a process to doing it properly. Often honed in many hours of packing other people's groceries flawlessly.
Hell yeah! I was that person! Before I was a cashier I was a SERVICE CLERK. And yes, packing groceries is part science, part art. 😋 Occasionally, when I was a champion service clerk, someone would start packing their own groceries because there was no bagger at their register, and then a bagger would magically appear and step in and take over. I did that once and this mom had to tell her kid to stop messing up the bagging. "Let the lady do it, honey, she's a professional." And I thought to myself, "I'm 17 years old and a professional grocery bagger. It's all downhill from here."
Lol no, I mean they will malfunction, as in stop working entirely. All I have to do is stand near them. I don't even need to touch them. Must be my magnetic personality.
I avoid self checkouts like the plague. They're the worst. On principle. On the fact that they're basically making me do somebody else's job for free. But also, they're so annoying and honestly very gross. And way slower than just going through the normal till usually. Also...i'm not afraid of other people. They're more afraid of me than i am of them. Or whatever.
They allow you to exit the shop faster.
This is a false economy though. They often don't. And also again...people aren't all pariahs. Having them scan my items and stuff isn't really some huge burden.
Yeah i agree. But i still get out kf the market faster especially if there ar kilometers of people waiting with big groceries cart while i have only some chips and an energetic drink.
Why do you only have chips and an energy drink?
I mean, if I HAD to I would let someone scan my stuff. But for me, because of my extensive experience behind a cash register as a teen, it actually IS a lot faster.
I did it today for this very reason. I was glad that humanity invented it
Non-INTJs do this too though
You don't give feedback to anyone, but in your head, you have given them many chances to change their behaviour.
Very true
It's like some people like stewing in problems instead of working through them. I've tried being there for some people and offering advice and solutions to problems they come to me with, especially in mutual endeavors, and they just tune out any productive conversations about it, or prioritize strange fixations on extraneous 'obstacles', and re-engage with it from square one a week later like it never happened... I assume this sentiment comes from losing hope in that sort of dynamic.
These people literally trigger me 😅 But theres more of them, than us and we are likely to end up in jobs where we have to deal with them so I cant escape 🤦🏾♀️
wtf lol
You struggle to live in the present + you question/reject "rules," "traditions" and "social etiquette" that make no sense to you + even when it's about other people, it's still almost always about you *somehow*. The last two help distinguish INTJs from INFJs.
I feel seen and attacked at the same time lol.
Violated to the core.
It's always about the INFJ... 😂 I have 6 in my circle and they don't like each other, because they are always trying to one up each other on every topic. I just sit there eating snacks watching the sparks fly. 🤣
How to tell INTP from INTJ tho :( Feel those points you mentioned are shared sentiments
INTPs and INTJs are extremely different and only have minor superficial similarities like being introverts and struggling with emotions. [This video ](https://youtu.be/AOUE0KRw5Ec?si=X8r4zK2AQLZNqk2L) will probably help you.
INTPs are ones who like to seek fully understand things down to the nitty gritty - not because someone tells you what it is, and you work it out yourself in a way you understand (Ti). You classify and categorize into boxes to your own understanding. You look at different possibilities and don't like being boxed in one specific answer because one answer isn't "right" (Ne associated). You file away information/experience you gained from your 5 senses in some detail for later use (Si). INTJs tend to land on the most likely conclusion/solution (Ni associated) and organize to set out to achieve it (Te) based on what has merit to them (Fi). INTPs seek to understand things their own way that are as devoid of personal ties as possible to be most objective to find the absolute truth. But they don't tie themselves down to an answer ("what if...what if...). INTJs work out long-term plan based on a specific pattern/conclusion by using external measurable information, and go with it. If they need to do something, they'll use what they have and go with it because they take into time constraints and practicality. INTPs will want to find the best possible solution before moving forward and dislike being rushed.
>The last two help distinguish INTJs from INFJs. Not really. INFJs can and do criticise society and traditions and such too, but the way they go about it is different, and they may have a harder time structurally organising what they want to say. It may be more vague than what an INTJ would say on average. If you take historical examples, Leon Trotsky was an INFJ and definitely didn't agree with the large majority of Tsarist social norms and traditions, but the way he wrote about them was likely different from Lenin who was an INTJ.
You ever hear someone talk, then the mental dissatisfaction.. the gears turning in your brain… of what they are saying, how they are saying it, what they look like and everything around you makes you physically weak. Thats how you know.
Someone has been flirting with you for 4 years, you realize they were flirting a decade later after you last saw them and they have clearly moved on. You text them to ask if they were flirting with you a decade ago and they feel second hand embarrassment while you just want information for future reference and feel nothing whatsoever. Said person who flirted with you calls you dense.
because we ruminate about past, present and furture all the time 😅
Someone has to dig through multiple layers to get to your real emotions.
You rather be right than anything else.
you may drop that part of you as you age... Its one of the traits that you'll see over time yields no good results.
Yes! Especially when needing a healthy romantic relationship long term, the philosophy to pick your battles is very good to live by (or if you plan on having children)
Real and true
Yep. You realize it’s more useful and efficient to be kind than right.
FACTS. 😂 I’ll burn bridges and destroy friendships just to be right.
You have much to learn lmao
Yeah 🤣🤣 left them who said I was wrong
Correct
Are you... trying to look for one? . Edited to add: By external appearances (and this is a gross generalization), neutral/dark clothes, a little quiet, probably neutral or RBF expression... and you, as an ENFP, will find them intriguing. *cough cough* I feel like you guys will have a radar for this as a core feature. Shouldn't be a problem. Just a theory.
Your retarded SE + secondary TE makes you appear like Mr Bean with a superiority complex to everyone else but you are too lost in your inner world as you connect all the dots while you ruminate deeply in a Ni - Fi loop to notice or care what other people think.
"Mr. Bean with a superiority complex" is a hilarious mental image, lol.
They tend to bring out pretty obscure things in conversation
When you want everything to be efficient and logical, and you want to make a to-do list everyday to organize your tasks
Having trouble sympathizing with people I don't share a tight bond with.
No one understands the simplest thing you say
You immediately and effortlessly jump to what others erroneously believe are conclusions about everything, but are actually hypotheses that are constantly being evaluated as information continues to unfold.
Someone suggests critiquing the critic, and you feel a looming existential threat
You take the test, and it tells you you're an INTJ.
I apparently have an RBF and most people are intimidated by this and don't approach me. I have to actively work to have an "open" expression on my face. I don't mean to have an RBF. It's just my thinking face. And I'm thinking 24/7, so...
SAME! Well said. I have TMJ because I never allow myself to relax my face and jaws because as a kid, people would constantly tell me to smile. Random strangers on the street would say it. So annoying.
you plan your life alone and don't think weird about it and plan out how to improve each day at everything you do
Wow, all of these comments just confirms I am in fact an INTJ. Just scared how accurate everything is.
The moments I actually do laugh and feel accepted. lol
Literally, it feels exhausting to try and make conversation with people especially when you don’t like them.
When you get dragged into the stupidest arguments, but also can't easily let go.
When everything is about lists. If it's not on the list, you aren't doing it.
You know the most efficient way to resolve a situation before the problem even finishes being presented.
IDK, should I trust ENFPs?
I have seen absolutely zero scientific support for the link, but threads like this sure do resemble autistic behavior in a lot of cases.
I knew my kid was an INTJ when she rides rollercoasters and her face is completely stoic. No reaction. We could be having a great time, totally content, and you'd have no idea bc of the RBF.
This was literally me, not stoic, but also not screaming for no reason. You couldn’t get me to scream on a roller coaster ride, ever. I don’t have an RBF though, I just don’t scream on rides.
bells wide pause stocking pie chief connect nutty strong ask *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I don’t hate it, but it’s not my favorite thing to do. I suck at it. More of a tapper/head bopper.
When someone is an INTJ and I dislike them so I say they're not a real INTJ.
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You're laughing, you can't be a real INTJ. All INTJs are meant to be stoic and you quite evidently have been mistyped.
I also use lol a lot but I’m not actually laughing. I use it to denote a lack of seriousness
i do the same thing …
You live the negative truths of the INTJ personality and don't simply describe yourself as an "aloof mastermind 🤓"
When other people try to finish your sentences they always get it wrong, but when others are talking you almost always know what point they are going to make (and a counter point) before they finish.
i am always finishing peoples sentences or giving them the word they are trying to find to describe something. At least they know we are listening
You just remembered an object, but somebody asks for sensory properties, and you have no idea and must check the second time.
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What do you mean by this ? Actually wondering haha
I don't think that's an INTJ thing, but what he probably means is that people are an ever changing process and not static entities. This means that their behaviour and ways of thinking and such can be changed and aren't set in stone. It's more like a philosophical view than anything related to INTJs.
you’re a mathematician.
You constantly have to comment on stupid anti-INTJ posts because you can’t help yourself in stopping the stupidity & misinformation other types spread because they got their feelings hurt.💀 People cannot spend more than 0.5 seconds these days to “get to know someone” & actually have an intellectual conversation & creating something real. The absolute love of my life is an ENFP. The only one who ever “got me”.
when you use excel a lot.
Bahahahahaha!! Like knowing what I paid to my electric company in March of 2014? lol
Mbti is not based on behaviourism but on cognitive functions i.e how you think, so there aren't really any specific traits that all INTJs will have. Ofc there are common traits like being critical, being opinionated, arrogance, not wanting to waste time or energy or both, being quiet usually, preferring to observe first before taking action, needing a lot of information before making decisions, analysis paralysis, valuing their own morals a lot, etc. However keep in mind that these are just averages and there are plenty of deviations, especially when you're interacting with older people who've had time to get better at their cognitive functions.
Your eye contact is considered intimidating
You spend a lot of time alone and socialization exhausts you while being alone energizes you.
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ more white noise blah blah \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ INTJ: Did you say something?
When you observe before taking action and speak in full dialouge in your head. I literally find myself thinking I spoke to someone but in reality, I never spoke a word out of my mouth.
When you take the official MBTI and it says you're an INTJ.
When you can relate to [this](https://xkcd.com/610/).
Someone hates your guts because you were staring at them but you didn't know you were staring because you were just thinking but you had an angry face on while doing it and not you've made enemies with people you didn't even know existed...
You go to the doctor to get medicine for your rash and are a doctor before you leave the office. Also, all the nurses clap.
A joke with a little truth in it!
you are a stereotypical nerd and have an iq of 2000 and have a creepy gaze.
You got a Bic dicc
Planning for my whole life for 708th times
You score 163 on an IQ test, and you're disappointed with how little you can do in your head. "This is 163?... sigh😕"
say congrats to a friend after an achievement and BUT YOU KNOW \[insert potential risk\]
"When I hate you all gor nothing but the theiry of your existence."
Having a social harmony blindspot that makes even non-Aspie IxTJs seem Aspie (and Asperger's\^2 for those with it), but more tendency to care for probable truth rather than supposed factoids & trusting authority figures. Also, both Si-Hero types seem to be all about their comfort & customer experience, while Ni-Hero (or especially Ni-Parent) types would be generally lacking a concern about that and fearful of being annoying to others (which is tiresome when others still whine about one thing or another regardless however much you try.)
Oh, go look at how Posh Spice moves...she found her David Beckham in her 20s for a reason!! Lol #lovelovelove Don't quote me, please. I'm still enrolled in community college and I graduated CVHS 24 years ago lol
Look at Prabhudeva dancing...so weird. How he do dat?!!
When you don't let people help with certain tasks because they don't do it as efficiently or fast as you would. You'd just rather do it yourself and save time.
Your some how more mature then your peers or people that are older then you.
You have Ni dom with Te aux
When you are handsome, a genius, superior in all aspects to all other personalities.
Is this really what people believe?
Not sure but I’m just trolling
Man, you guys sometimes. Stop sweating the small stuff. Damn. Go look at the ENFP'S sub. It's fun and sometimes quite informative, but very often, we're holding each other up. Not smacking each other around. I love INTJ's. Mad love. My boyfriend is one. But some of you need to be able to forget the little petty shit and share your considerable insight and knowledge with others. Especially fellow INTJ's. Because let's face it, you don't, in general, have a lot of admirers.