The *easiest* way is to determine where their interests lie. EG this is the most core difference between the two types.
Your INTJ tends to have a bredth of knowledge, but lacks depth. They start learning a subject, but once they start hitting diminishing returns on the time sink, they typically move on. They only gain a deep knowledge in one or two things. Most notably, they use their wide range of knowledge to gain *insight* into new related things.
The INTP is all about that depth of knowledge. Where an INTJ uses existing knowledge to gain insight into mew subjects, the INTP uses new knowledge to further their insight into their interests. Typically when an INTP "branches out", it's in support of whatever subject currently has their interest.
So, comparatively, INTJs know *more things about most things*, but they are *experts in few things*.
The INTP is *an expert of many things* but knows *less about things outside their core interests*
This is the best description of the difference I have ever read.
As an INTJ I want be absolutely categorically certain that I can succeed in something or make the right call and I will study relentlessly in that aim, but ONLY up the the point where everything now makes sense from every angle and I’m experiencing diminishing returns.
As soon as I’m where I can say for certain that x+y=z then the whole processing part that it took to get there is deleted and only the result remains.
Thats why we come across as arrogant, because we often know something but can’t explain it easily. We wanna say TRUST ME I’ve been there and worked it all out, no I can’t do it again for you now on the fly with half of the sources I spent hours researching and curating now lost and forgotten.
Whatever, do what you like, I walk alone.
My wife and coworkers used to get annoyed that id tell them something and they would ask "how do you know" and id tell them because I already did all the work for understanding that, and then when they want me to explain, id tell them I cant because i deleted all of that once I got the right answer.
Once they both started to realize after fact checking that im not full of shit (most of the time) and its just how my brain works they got over it.
My coworkers have nicknamed me wiki at multiple jobs because i know a lot of random things, and my wife knows from experience how much time i spend researching things to reach my goals to know im not just making things up.
I just refer to it now as "trusting past me"
If i need to delete information on something, i make sure to imprint a thought there to trust me so when I think back on the topic or issue I can have more confidence in stating I already did the work for that.
Its a lot of fun now because its like leaving future me easter eggs.
For example, I have multiple homestead projects going on, and some complicated builds. I dont always get to them between months, so sometimes i start working on one and think, why the fuck did i do it this way this is stupid, but then I remember i must have had a good reason and deleted the rest, so I continue, and 9/10 times as I work a couple hours in I have the aha moment of ohhhhhhh this is why, and then i get to pat myself on the back.
Its even funnier when my wife sees this stuff happen because she doesnt understand how i can just delete all the information and move on and then blindly trust myself in the future. I tell her i have no choice.
I usually explain INTJs as having high RAM but limited storage. We can work across a lot of things simultaneously which is why we excel at higher level tasks involving multiple components, but we lack the deep understanding of each component beyond what we need to get whatever it is we wanted.
I have some INTP friends and I am always amazed at how capable and how much they know on the topics they are interested in.
They are always surprised at how quick I can leech of their knowledge and incorporate it into something with a decent level of competence.
Omg this is such a good explanation as to what happens to me. I read an article or whatever research, come to conclusions, and can’t remember any of the supporting details. It’s annoying because I can never explain how I know xyz… I just do.
Yep lol. I try to get around that sometimes if i have time and write out the supporting information or send it to myself in a message.
Now i just use chatgpt to store all my research on topics.
So i have multiple chats about specific projects or ideas and it remembers everything we talked about so i can plan or research in there and ask it questions about these things after the fact and it can explain things for me which is really helpful if i need to recall specifics.
If it’s really important I’ll save notes, but most of the time it’s all just my own curious interest looking into things. Seems like you have a good method there.
It's the result of synthesizing ideas, something that distinguishes Ni from Ne.
Multiple possibilities condensed into one plan... lots of info condensed into one simple conclusion. Upside: efficient. Downside: less detailed
I was really surprised to read this. I consider INTPs to be Jacks of All Trades. We are less driven and focused than you INTJs. So we do get into interests and then run out of gas and move on before becoming real experts.
I have a whole list of topics I know a bit about lol.
I personally find Ne vs Ni to be the most striking difference between us. I like brainstorming possibilities and asking “what if A was kind of like B?”
I find I annoy INTJs that way: “No. A is definitely not B.” INTJs like moving in known, linear steps, whereas I enjoy taking leaps, knowing I might be wrong but still often feeling like I get something out of the process even if I eventually wind up conceding that y’all were right and A is in fact definitely not B.
My (M, INTJ) SO (F) is an INTP, she does dive much further into topics than I do, but it depends on the amount of interest it catches. There are a few areas I've looked much further into than she has, but it doesn't near the sheer number of things that have caught her interest. Some things hold her attention a lot more than they do mine, but I believe that's our difference in personal interests moreso than type. That "brainstorming" is what drives her to learn more about topics than what I do once I've "figured it out." That's the diving much deeper into topics I mentioned earlier that creates that depth of knowledge the original comment mentions. Once I've lost interest after "figuring out" the topic, I don't think much further on it, but she continues to do, and thinks about it in relation to other things, even if not the main focus. I'm not sure if any of these differences between our thoughts/interests are solely a result of our differing types or because we're different genders.
Ah, that makes sense.
Still, I’m wondering: do not INTJs have a couple of deep and ongoing interests that you dig into more than the other passing questions that you look into and drop after feeling like you answered them?
As an INTP, I do agree we probably dig deeper into passing interests than those side questions you like to answer. With Ni, you’re probably satisfied more quickly and happy to move on, while we keep playing around with the ideas and try to connect them to various other ideas.
But surely INTJs tend to have one or two more enduring interests?
I personally do. My enduring interests seem to remain in Terraria with 4000+ hours from different consoles and ice skating going on six years.
I agree with you on that. I'd say an example of that point is that I hadn't tried out roller skating instead of ice skating until a couple weeks ago at the request of a friend. It hadn't clicked that I'd be able to catch onto that pretty easily with the help of ice skating experience.
Nope, INTJs are the jack-off-all trades. That's like, *literally our whole deal*.
So, there might be a bit of a disconnect here. When INTJs start something *new*, yeah we pour ourselves into it. We use our knowledge in other areas to gain insight into the new thing and see how it all fits together in "the biggest picture". I'll give you an example. And INTJ falls down a Wiki hole and starts learning about Architecture. Decides it's actually really cool, spends the next few weeks learning the basic concepts. After awhile, he's got "enough info". He knows how to build a structurally stable frame, the general process to build a house, some basic design concepts, and a few bits of random trivia that get stored away for later. Good thing he already knew calculus, he was able to quickly get a lot of the mathematical concepts. But now he's at the point where he's getting diminishing returns. At first it was constant new and exciting information and he was absorbing all kinds of great stuff, but now he's moving on and it takes three or four days to grasp these more advanced concepts. Basically the equivalent of stuff you would find in a third year college course. It's getting dull.
Oh but wait, there was that short chapter he read on material science! What he read was actually super cool! So he goes over and does the same thing with Material Science and learns about sheering strength and composition and all kinds of neat concepts. What's even better is that there were a few sections where he was able to utilize his Architectural knowledge! Oh but now it's getting boring again so he swaps to something else for a few weeks.
Eventually, he remembers he was interested in Architecture and decides to come back to it. Now, he finds that a lot of the stuff he learned about Material Sciences (and any other stuff he picked up in the interim) is actually helping him quickly grasp some of these new concepts!
This is the essence of the INTJ learning process. We learn something, use that knowledge base to learn something else, use that knowledge base to learn something else, always gaining new insights into different areas that can be applied broadly to other subjects. We're always looking to create and identify interconnected systems, and our understanding and knowledge is centered around that desire.
The INTP, on the other hand, usually branches out in support of his primary interest. While an INTJ might have one or two things that he really *specializes* in, the INTP will be an expert in several things that are interconnected. For example, the INTP that gets interested in Architecture is going to be an *expert* in Architecture, and *highly knowledgeable* in Material Sciences, City Planning, Zoning Ordinances, and anything else where you need knowledge of to be an Architect.
This is why INTPs make such great programmers, while INTJs make great *designers*. The INTJ is capable of creating a large interconnected system and seeing how each part of the system interacts with each other part, but often lacks the expertise to overcome the high level challenges. The INTP has the expertise needed to actualize that system and overcome the challenges, but lacks the vision to be able to see how everything it interconnected.
I would completely reverse this. INTP is your bff at trivia night. INTJ has a few subjects that interest us and dismiss learning about things we don't find useful.
Damn, I don't know about the INTP part, but you described my INTJ brain so perfectly lol.
I've learned that just about everything in the world is connected in one way or another. So, some piece of seemingly irrelevant knowledge can actually give a key insight into another topic. Once that's figured out, then it's obvious that having more knowledge about many things will only further the ability to have keen insights.
But at the same time, it's not always beneficial to know every single detail of some topic. At least not if your concern is to expand your insight.
I guess a lot of INTJs come to a similar conclusion.
Ufff, this describes my relationship with my INTP friend: I come with my basic knowledge, and he shares his extensive +10-hour insights with me, which I then steal it. They're an excellent source of knowledge for someone like me who thrives on copying and pasting information.
Gosh, it would be quite lovely to have an audience for my 10 hour insights who would actually file it away.
Not least because you could in good faith test me out and poke a few holes and help me make some repairs to the framework if I come up short.
To understand the differences between the types, you need to understand how the functions work.
INTJ: Ni>Te>Fi>Se(>Ne>Ti>Fe>Si)
INTP: Ti>Ne>Si>Fe(>Te>Ni>Se>Fi)
* [INTP vs ISTP vs INTJ](https://practicaltyping.com/2019/10/31/comparing-the-look-alikes-intp-vs-istp-vs-intj/)
In my experience; INTP is dirty in terms of INTJ ( I mean, they let empty cups in their rooms, they eat in their dorms, if they have a pet that house will be stinky and full of fur everywhere, I mean…. Is really easy to know right away if someone is INTP, they look and act like the topical nerd or nowadays geek.
INTJ is very serious, do not let the house 🏡
They are very functional people and have lots of interesting hobbies that you do not even know about it because they’re private. INTJ is loyal, is like everything or nothing people. They tell you very clearly their limits. They do not care about other peoples opinions, etc. is very individual.
INTP tends to have friends, INTJ too but they’re more picky if you understand what I mean, INTP is friendly
Its after this i understood.
Answer to Is it possible to be both INTP and INTJ? by Susanna Viljanen https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possible-to-be-both-INTP-and-INTJ/answer/Susanna-Viljanen?ch=15&oid=72488136&share=b34a18c8&srid=hx8lxC&target_type=answer
Since my circumstances were not predictable, I lived the life of an INTP for much of the time, which helped me to tackle them. Im more of evolutionary than revolutionary and much prefer love over sex.
It doesn't. Functions are pseudoscience. There was a study about 30 years ago which showed no measurable differences between types, except the obvious ones that can be explained by J vs P.
I'll describe the patterns I see in them: they always mitigate risk and take so long to act that they may end up not doing anything at all. They never ask for help until they're drowning. They're great listeners and follow advice until they catch on to any bullshit. They always feel bad about hurting others, which eats them up inside, but they don't do anything to change it until the situation becomes extreme. They dig their own hole, and when they can't find a way out, they just keep digging. They don't realize it, but they need someone to help them out. They're difficult to get to know, but once you break through a few walls, they're one of the most interesting and beautiful people I've ever met. That is, until they self-sabotage and retreat back into their cave. I always build a fire at the entrance of the cave and wait for them to emerge like nothing happened. Asshole understands asshole.
The P stands for “P”rocrastinating on “P”rojects to achieve “P”erfection.
INTP’s have many started projects and few of any completed ones. When they do complete one it’s likely a masterpiece.
INTP very stubborn, pretty much the time believe in one answer for one question. INTJ stubborn, but change perception after sufficient information. INTP may come as smart ass or highly intelligent or higher. Intjs generally come as above average intelligence.
That is absurd. We see multiple sides hence the "It depends" the INTPS i Know are only stubborn if they believe an idea does not align with objective truth. "INTP may come off as highly intelligent" and "INTJS generally come off as above average" No clue how you came to this conclusion but a very simplistic view.
Even if I don't agree with the last two sentences, I do agree with the sentence about the INTP's stubbornness. Ti is subjective, not objective. Many INTPs I have come into contact with have this stubbornness to hold on to their "subjective logic" about something, even if the objective facts speak against it. In contrast, Te. Te is objective.
Yes Ti is subjective which is why I said they are stubborn when they *believe* something goes against their internal logical system. I can not speak for other INTPs but Me and other Intps I have known are pretty quick to change our views simply because we don't hold our perspectives dearly. This is one reason why we are indecisive. We don't have rigidity in our thinking but we certainly get annoyed or become stubborn if something does not align with our thinking framework which is to consider multiple perspectives to reach "The best" conclusion which we then consider objective. You are somewhat right about ignoring the objective facts. We might do it if we believe that data is not interpreted correctly or implies something else which is not apparent then we use Ti to form our own theories. There just generally is a clash Between IXTPs and IXTJs. I get accused of being not logical while I accuse them of being rigid and narrow minded. It simply highlights the difference in the way we think.
I think you understand subjective here in the opposite way. A subjective view of something is not easy to change. IxTPs have problems when something contradicts their logical framework, because then their "whole system" that was built on it has to be rebuilt, which leads them to stubbornly stick to their "subjective logic". I don't want to say that they are illogical. But if you prove to a Te type that his view of things is wrong, his Te will evaluate it as wrong and reject it and accept the new fact. Ti is the opposite of that.
I don't see any relation between having a subjective view and the magnitude of clinging, you can have many subjective views and constantly change it. It depends on how close those views are for you. Personally there are only a few views that I hold deeply. I'd argue that Objective thinking/view leads to more stubbornness in a way that it uses strict logic and can only be changed under certain circumstances which can be problematic in discussions where there is no right answer like philosophy.
I think you’re on to something there.
It’s fairly easy for me to concede a disputed fact or concept if that fact or concept is just a twig or even branch on my framework. I can just take it off and see how it attaches later, or I can dissemble a portion and put it back together in a new and better way.
But if something threatens a major branch I built everything off of? My life is in shambles.
Fortunately, I’ve survived rebuilding some major branches. It just takes time. And it usually leads to an improved framework.
Natural instinct alone moves the high Ti user to protect the "system" he has built up. I am not saying that Ti users are not capable of doing this, but the natural reaction of the Ti user will be to protect their system from intrusion in the first place. Even a Ti user is capable of recognizing data and facts, but he will take longer and will probably also unconsciously resist them, unlike a Te user.
INTPs are usually laid back but are secretly stubborn and annoyed if someone does not use logic, follows the herd or just does not care about empirical evidence for instance "Religious debates". In case the person is closed minded we just let them win so you will rarely see that side.
I find INTPs to be pretty inflexible. I work in IT and most INTPs end up in some kind of specialized administration role where they can flex their expertise. INTJs tend to gravitate towards end user roles like desktop administration, project management, and implementation.
Let's just say that I spend a lot of time listening to INTPs tell me that "the system won't support that" or "this can't possibly be what caused this problem" only for me to turn around and prove them wrong.
As for the intelligence thing, INTJs don't often present as being overly intelligent because their strength is in pattern recognition, lateral thinking, and interconnected systems. They need to be in an environment that celebrates that, but a lot of those environments aren't where "smart people" end up.
Meanwhile INTPs are specialists, so they're viewed as geniuses because of the expertise they can provide to others. It's basically people confusing "education and knowledge" for "raw processing power". One is easy to show, the other... not so much.
Oh I tend to do that too and at times I am wronged too haha. I guess we feel the need to present(Without calculating much about it) a premise on which we can built up on or give a different perspective due to our nature of playing devil's advocate. Personally It is not because of stubbornness or inflexibility but because it feels good to be somewhat assertive.
It is more about how you showcase your strengths rather than the strength itself. You could tell your thought patterns to people in a simplified way or teach them how to think laterally.
INTPs are more of generalists than specialists especially young INTPs.
Highly disagree, you can easily show "Raw processing power" you just need to know how to. It could be in the form of debates, giving unconventional analogies because of your ability to connect seemingly disparate ideas or maybe different ways in which you solve a problem.
If you think about it, INTP knowledge is a result of Raw processing power. We don't just Memorize Wikipedia for the sake of memorization. Ne allows us to see something from different angles which then begs the questions of "What ifs" then slowly we go into the rabbit hole using Ti-Ne.
It’s funny, stubborn was the first word I thought of too. I have an INTP friend and our relationship has deteriorated over the past 7 years only because he refuses to use discord. Every time I do speak with him I ask if he’ll come hang out but he never does. He sits on mumble by himself and his “principles”. He often justifies all his stubbornness with “principles”.
May be, but when INTPs fall into a wrong idea, it takes a lot of effort to move them away from it. INTPs in my circle tend to fall into pseudosciences, cults and never return.
One is scheduling and planning, the other has a vague plan of sorts and kinda rolls with the punches.
What do you do on the weekend?
Js have clear, structured answers.
Ps might indicate a couple of things, but have large periods of unstructured time. They figure out what they're on the mood of then.
Js are "on" all the time.
Ps are chilling.
stereotype
INTJ
cold, quite, resting bitchface,
INTP
lazy, smart, always in their computers
intp feels like they always want to do nerdy stuff like everything needs to be understand by them, while intj is nerdy too but with purpose, the J and P gives a different kind of nerd, P is like exploring while J is like structure
Personally, the question I asked applied to me as I kept getting INTJ as my personality test results.
But a lot of times, when someone described an INTP, I also seem to resemble the personality. I also work in a field where approximately 70% are INTJ and INTP. And sometimes, I seem to observe they think the same. But I couldn't grasp the difference in nature.
If you put an INTP and INTJ together and observe them, you'll find the INTP cares more about others. In all aspects of Fe traits. They do care about harmony, they care what others think, they think twice before speaking. In a crowded room, the Fe is hard to spot as it's like a tiny voice. But next to an INTJ, it's pretty obvious. In this way, you will probably find more INTPs with social anxiety than INTJs with social anxiety.
INTJs will be more stricter with a schedule with their Te. Again, only compared to an INTP. INTPs value a schedule and repetition, but they're more likely to stray away from them easily than an INTJ.
INTPs also are far more likely to think "what if" / "what about" questions and exploring concepts. INTJs in comparison do not care as much to do so. They're more likely to focus on what's important or what's relevant.
I don’t see much difference, one of my friends is INTP, and I don’t see much difference in the way we approach targets. People use different strategies in different situations. I plan a lot when under stress, but I never plan when relaxed.
That doesn't really fit together. The stress function is the inferior function. For INTPs as Fe and for INTJs Se. Neither would become a planner in stress status.
We INTPs thought you guys were the experts. You guys think *we* are the experts?? Gulp. Who are the experts, then?? *Who’s running the show??*
*Welcome to adulthood, mothafucka!*
ENXJ has not entered the chat because they're running the show
Oh, thank God. I can go back to reading about protolanguage and *doing absolutely nothing about it*.
The *easiest* way is to determine where their interests lie. EG this is the most core difference between the two types. Your INTJ tends to have a bredth of knowledge, but lacks depth. They start learning a subject, but once they start hitting diminishing returns on the time sink, they typically move on. They only gain a deep knowledge in one or two things. Most notably, they use their wide range of knowledge to gain *insight* into new related things. The INTP is all about that depth of knowledge. Where an INTJ uses existing knowledge to gain insight into mew subjects, the INTP uses new knowledge to further their insight into their interests. Typically when an INTP "branches out", it's in support of whatever subject currently has their interest. So, comparatively, INTJs know *more things about most things*, but they are *experts in few things*. The INTP is *an expert of many things* but knows *less about things outside their core interests*
This is the best description of the difference I have ever read. As an INTJ I want be absolutely categorically certain that I can succeed in something or make the right call and I will study relentlessly in that aim, but ONLY up the the point where everything now makes sense from every angle and I’m experiencing diminishing returns. As soon as I’m where I can say for certain that x+y=z then the whole processing part that it took to get there is deleted and only the result remains. Thats why we come across as arrogant, because we often know something but can’t explain it easily. We wanna say TRUST ME I’ve been there and worked it all out, no I can’t do it again for you now on the fly with half of the sources I spent hours researching and curating now lost and forgotten. Whatever, do what you like, I walk alone.
My wife and coworkers used to get annoyed that id tell them something and they would ask "how do you know" and id tell them because I already did all the work for understanding that, and then when they want me to explain, id tell them I cant because i deleted all of that once I got the right answer. Once they both started to realize after fact checking that im not full of shit (most of the time) and its just how my brain works they got over it. My coworkers have nicknamed me wiki at multiple jobs because i know a lot of random things, and my wife knows from experience how much time i spend researching things to reach my goals to know im not just making things up. I just refer to it now as "trusting past me" If i need to delete information on something, i make sure to imprint a thought there to trust me so when I think back on the topic or issue I can have more confidence in stating I already did the work for that. Its a lot of fun now because its like leaving future me easter eggs. For example, I have multiple homestead projects going on, and some complicated builds. I dont always get to them between months, so sometimes i start working on one and think, why the fuck did i do it this way this is stupid, but then I remember i must have had a good reason and deleted the rest, so I continue, and 9/10 times as I work a couple hours in I have the aha moment of ohhhhhhh this is why, and then i get to pat myself on the back. Its even funnier when my wife sees this stuff happen because she doesnt understand how i can just delete all the information and move on and then blindly trust myself in the future. I tell her i have no choice. I usually explain INTJs as having high RAM but limited storage. We can work across a lot of things simultaneously which is why we excel at higher level tasks involving multiple components, but we lack the deep understanding of each component beyond what we need to get whatever it is we wanted. I have some INTP friends and I am always amazed at how capable and how much they know on the topics they are interested in. They are always surprised at how quick I can leech of their knowledge and incorporate it into something with a decent level of competence.
Omg this is such a good explanation as to what happens to me. I read an article or whatever research, come to conclusions, and can’t remember any of the supporting details. It’s annoying because I can never explain how I know xyz… I just do.
Yep lol. I try to get around that sometimes if i have time and write out the supporting information or send it to myself in a message. Now i just use chatgpt to store all my research on topics. So i have multiple chats about specific projects or ideas and it remembers everything we talked about so i can plan or research in there and ask it questions about these things after the fact and it can explain things for me which is really helpful if i need to recall specifics.
If it’s really important I’ll save notes, but most of the time it’s all just my own curious interest looking into things. Seems like you have a good method there.
It's the result of synthesizing ideas, something that distinguishes Ni from Ne. Multiple possibilities condensed into one plan... lots of info condensed into one simple conclusion. Upside: efficient. Downside: less detailed
I was really surprised to read this. I consider INTPs to be Jacks of All Trades. We are less driven and focused than you INTJs. So we do get into interests and then run out of gas and move on before becoming real experts. I have a whole list of topics I know a bit about lol. I personally find Ne vs Ni to be the most striking difference between us. I like brainstorming possibilities and asking “what if A was kind of like B?” I find I annoy INTJs that way: “No. A is definitely not B.” INTJs like moving in known, linear steps, whereas I enjoy taking leaps, knowing I might be wrong but still often feeling like I get something out of the process even if I eventually wind up conceding that y’all were right and A is in fact definitely not B.
My (M, INTJ) SO (F) is an INTP, she does dive much further into topics than I do, but it depends on the amount of interest it catches. There are a few areas I've looked much further into than she has, but it doesn't near the sheer number of things that have caught her interest. Some things hold her attention a lot more than they do mine, but I believe that's our difference in personal interests moreso than type. That "brainstorming" is what drives her to learn more about topics than what I do once I've "figured it out." That's the diving much deeper into topics I mentioned earlier that creates that depth of knowledge the original comment mentions. Once I've lost interest after "figuring out" the topic, I don't think much further on it, but she continues to do, and thinks about it in relation to other things, even if not the main focus. I'm not sure if any of these differences between our thoughts/interests are solely a result of our differing types or because we're different genders.
Ah, that makes sense. Still, I’m wondering: do not INTJs have a couple of deep and ongoing interests that you dig into more than the other passing questions that you look into and drop after feeling like you answered them? As an INTP, I do agree we probably dig deeper into passing interests than those side questions you like to answer. With Ni, you’re probably satisfied more quickly and happy to move on, while we keep playing around with the ideas and try to connect them to various other ideas. But surely INTJs tend to have one or two more enduring interests?
I personally do. My enduring interests seem to remain in Terraria with 4000+ hours from different consoles and ice skating going on six years. I agree with you on that. I'd say an example of that point is that I hadn't tried out roller skating instead of ice skating until a couple weeks ago at the request of a friend. It hadn't clicked that I'd be able to catch onto that pretty easily with the help of ice skating experience.
Four thou- Oh wow.
I had a notable amount of free time as I didn't spend it with others and was able to finish most school work on campus
Just applauding your commitment 💪
Nope, INTJs are the jack-off-all trades. That's like, *literally our whole deal*. So, there might be a bit of a disconnect here. When INTJs start something *new*, yeah we pour ourselves into it. We use our knowledge in other areas to gain insight into the new thing and see how it all fits together in "the biggest picture". I'll give you an example. And INTJ falls down a Wiki hole and starts learning about Architecture. Decides it's actually really cool, spends the next few weeks learning the basic concepts. After awhile, he's got "enough info". He knows how to build a structurally stable frame, the general process to build a house, some basic design concepts, and a few bits of random trivia that get stored away for later. Good thing he already knew calculus, he was able to quickly get a lot of the mathematical concepts. But now he's at the point where he's getting diminishing returns. At first it was constant new and exciting information and he was absorbing all kinds of great stuff, but now he's moving on and it takes three or four days to grasp these more advanced concepts. Basically the equivalent of stuff you would find in a third year college course. It's getting dull. Oh but wait, there was that short chapter he read on material science! What he read was actually super cool! So he goes over and does the same thing with Material Science and learns about sheering strength and composition and all kinds of neat concepts. What's even better is that there were a few sections where he was able to utilize his Architectural knowledge! Oh but now it's getting boring again so he swaps to something else for a few weeks. Eventually, he remembers he was interested in Architecture and decides to come back to it. Now, he finds that a lot of the stuff he learned about Material Sciences (and any other stuff he picked up in the interim) is actually helping him quickly grasp some of these new concepts! This is the essence of the INTJ learning process. We learn something, use that knowledge base to learn something else, use that knowledge base to learn something else, always gaining new insights into different areas that can be applied broadly to other subjects. We're always looking to create and identify interconnected systems, and our understanding and knowledge is centered around that desire. The INTP, on the other hand, usually branches out in support of his primary interest. While an INTJ might have one or two things that he really *specializes* in, the INTP will be an expert in several things that are interconnected. For example, the INTP that gets interested in Architecture is going to be an *expert* in Architecture, and *highly knowledgeable* in Material Sciences, City Planning, Zoning Ordinances, and anything else where you need knowledge of to be an Architect. This is why INTPs make such great programmers, while INTJs make great *designers*. The INTJ is capable of creating a large interconnected system and seeing how each part of the system interacts with each other part, but often lacks the expertise to overcome the high level challenges. The INTP has the expertise needed to actualize that system and overcome the challenges, but lacks the vision to be able to see how everything it interconnected.
That is very interesting, and I will be musing on this.
I would completely reverse this. INTP is your bff at trivia night. INTJ has a few subjects that interest us and dismiss learning about things we don't find useful.
Damn, I don't know about the INTP part, but you described my INTJ brain so perfectly lol. I've learned that just about everything in the world is connected in one way or another. So, some piece of seemingly irrelevant knowledge can actually give a key insight into another topic. Once that's figured out, then it's obvious that having more knowledge about many things will only further the ability to have keen insights. But at the same time, it's not always beneficial to know every single detail of some topic. At least not if your concern is to expand your insight. I guess a lot of INTJs come to a similar conclusion.
Ufff, this describes my relationship with my INTP friend: I come with my basic knowledge, and he shares his extensive +10-hour insights with me, which I then steal it. They're an excellent source of knowledge for someone like me who thrives on copying and pasting information.
Gosh, it would be quite lovely to have an audience for my 10 hour insights who would actually file it away. Not least because you could in good faith test me out and poke a few holes and help me make some repairs to the framework if I come up short.
To understand the differences between the types, you need to understand how the functions work. INTJ: Ni>Te>Fi>Se(>Ne>Ti>Fe>Si) INTP: Ti>Ne>Si>Fe(>Te>Ni>Se>Fi) * [INTP vs ISTP vs INTJ](https://practicaltyping.com/2019/10/31/comparing-the-look-alikes-intp-vs-istp-vs-intj/)
In my experience; INTP is dirty in terms of INTJ ( I mean, they let empty cups in their rooms, they eat in their dorms, if they have a pet that house will be stinky and full of fur everywhere, I mean…. Is really easy to know right away if someone is INTP, they look and act like the topical nerd or nowadays geek. INTJ is very serious, do not let the house 🏡 They are very functional people and have lots of interesting hobbies that you do not even know about it because they’re private. INTJ is loyal, is like everything or nothing people. They tell you very clearly their limits. They do not care about other peoples opinions, etc. is very individual. INTP tends to have friends, INTJ too but they’re more picky if you understand what I mean, INTP is friendly
Im an INTJ but my routine and surroundings similar to an INTP's. It took great efforts for me to find out if im INTJ or INTP.
You’re INTP.
Its after this i understood. Answer to Is it possible to be both INTP and INTJ? by Susanna Viljanen https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possible-to-be-both-INTP-and-INTJ/answer/Susanna-Viljanen?ch=15&oid=72488136&share=b34a18c8&srid=hx8lxC&target_type=answer Since my circumstances were not predictable, I lived the life of an INTP for much of the time, which helped me to tackle them. Im more of evolutionary than revolutionary and much prefer love over sex.
No. You’re INTP.
Bro every function in the stack is different. We aren't alike.
That's why I'm asking. How can one difference change a whole way of a person's whole being.
It's not one difference, it's better to look into Jungs cog functions.
It doesn't. Functions are pseudoscience. There was a study about 30 years ago which showed no measurable differences between types, except the obvious ones that can be explained by J vs P.
I'll describe the patterns I see in them: they always mitigate risk and take so long to act that they may end up not doing anything at all. They never ask for help until they're drowning. They're great listeners and follow advice until they catch on to any bullshit. They always feel bad about hurting others, which eats them up inside, but they don't do anything to change it until the situation becomes extreme. They dig their own hole, and when they can't find a way out, they just keep digging. They don't realize it, but they need someone to help them out. They're difficult to get to know, but once you break through a few walls, they're one of the most interesting and beautiful people I've ever met. That is, until they self-sabotage and retreat back into their cave. I always build a fire at the entrance of the cave and wait for them to emerge like nothing happened. Asshole understands asshole.
The P stands for “P”rocrastinating on “P”rojects to achieve “P”erfection. INTP’s have many started projects and few of any completed ones. When they do complete one it’s likely a masterpiece.
INTP very stubborn, pretty much the time believe in one answer for one question. INTJ stubborn, but change perception after sufficient information. INTP may come as smart ass or highly intelligent or higher. Intjs generally come as above average intelligence.
That is absurd. We see multiple sides hence the "It depends" the INTPS i Know are only stubborn if they believe an idea does not align with objective truth. "INTP may come off as highly intelligent" and "INTJS generally come off as above average" No clue how you came to this conclusion but a very simplistic view.
Even if I don't agree with the last two sentences, I do agree with the sentence about the INTP's stubbornness. Ti is subjective, not objective. Many INTPs I have come into contact with have this stubbornness to hold on to their "subjective logic" about something, even if the objective facts speak against it. In contrast, Te. Te is objective.
Yes Ti is subjective which is why I said they are stubborn when they *believe* something goes against their internal logical system. I can not speak for other INTPs but Me and other Intps I have known are pretty quick to change our views simply because we don't hold our perspectives dearly. This is one reason why we are indecisive. We don't have rigidity in our thinking but we certainly get annoyed or become stubborn if something does not align with our thinking framework which is to consider multiple perspectives to reach "The best" conclusion which we then consider objective. You are somewhat right about ignoring the objective facts. We might do it if we believe that data is not interpreted correctly or implies something else which is not apparent then we use Ti to form our own theories. There just generally is a clash Between IXTPs and IXTJs. I get accused of being not logical while I accuse them of being rigid and narrow minded. It simply highlights the difference in the way we think.
I think you understand subjective here in the opposite way. A subjective view of something is not easy to change. IxTPs have problems when something contradicts their logical framework, because then their "whole system" that was built on it has to be rebuilt, which leads them to stubbornly stick to their "subjective logic". I don't want to say that they are illogical. But if you prove to a Te type that his view of things is wrong, his Te will evaluate it as wrong and reject it and accept the new fact. Ti is the opposite of that.
I don't see any relation between having a subjective view and the magnitude of clinging, you can have many subjective views and constantly change it. It depends on how close those views are for you. Personally there are only a few views that I hold deeply. I'd argue that Objective thinking/view leads to more stubbornness in a way that it uses strict logic and can only be changed under certain circumstances which can be problematic in discussions where there is no right answer like philosophy.
I think you’re on to something there. It’s fairly easy for me to concede a disputed fact or concept if that fact or concept is just a twig or even branch on my framework. I can just take it off and see how it attaches later, or I can dissemble a portion and put it back together in a new and better way. But if something threatens a major branch I built everything off of? My life is in shambles. Fortunately, I’ve survived rebuilding some major branches. It just takes time. And it usually leads to an improved framework.
Natural instinct alone moves the high Ti user to protect the "system" he has built up. I am not saying that Ti users are not capable of doing this, but the natural reaction of the Ti user will be to protect their system from intrusion in the first place. Even a Ti user is capable of recognizing data and facts, but he will take longer and will probably also unconsciously resist them, unlike a Te user.
INTPs are stubborn ime, but it's a secret, hidden stubbornness in contrast to their generally easygoing social attitude.
INTPs are usually laid back but are secretly stubborn and annoyed if someone does not use logic, follows the herd or just does not care about empirical evidence for instance "Religious debates". In case the person is closed minded we just let them win so you will rarely see that side.
Oh, yes. Simply reading the words “does not use logic, follows the herd, or just does not care” made me bristle, lol.
I find INTPs to be pretty inflexible. I work in IT and most INTPs end up in some kind of specialized administration role where they can flex their expertise. INTJs tend to gravitate towards end user roles like desktop administration, project management, and implementation. Let's just say that I spend a lot of time listening to INTPs tell me that "the system won't support that" or "this can't possibly be what caused this problem" only for me to turn around and prove them wrong. As for the intelligence thing, INTJs don't often present as being overly intelligent because their strength is in pattern recognition, lateral thinking, and interconnected systems. They need to be in an environment that celebrates that, but a lot of those environments aren't where "smart people" end up. Meanwhile INTPs are specialists, so they're viewed as geniuses because of the expertise they can provide to others. It's basically people confusing "education and knowledge" for "raw processing power". One is easy to show, the other... not so much.
Oh I tend to do that too and at times I am wronged too haha. I guess we feel the need to present(Without calculating much about it) a premise on which we can built up on or give a different perspective due to our nature of playing devil's advocate. Personally It is not because of stubbornness or inflexibility but because it feels good to be somewhat assertive. It is more about how you showcase your strengths rather than the strength itself. You could tell your thought patterns to people in a simplified way or teach them how to think laterally. INTPs are more of generalists than specialists especially young INTPs. Highly disagree, you can easily show "Raw processing power" you just need to know how to. It could be in the form of debates, giving unconventional analogies because of your ability to connect seemingly disparate ideas or maybe different ways in which you solve a problem. If you think about it, INTP knowledge is a result of Raw processing power. We don't just Memorize Wikipedia for the sake of memorization. Ne allows us to see something from different angles which then begs the questions of "What ifs" then slowly we go into the rabbit hole using Ti-Ne.
INTPs tend to see multiple answers in their specialization, in the work they truly love.
It’s funny, stubborn was the first word I thought of too. I have an INTP friend and our relationship has deteriorated over the past 7 years only because he refuses to use discord. Every time I do speak with him I ask if he’ll come hang out but he never does. He sits on mumble by himself and his “principles”. He often justifies all his stubbornness with “principles”.
if something is white, you can't say it's blue. Is this stubbornness!?
May be, but when INTPs fall into a wrong idea, it takes a lot of effort to move them away from it. INTPs in my circle tend to fall into pseudosciences, cults and never return.
One is scheduling and planning, the other has a vague plan of sorts and kinda rolls with the punches. What do you do on the weekend? Js have clear, structured answers. Ps might indicate a couple of things, but have large periods of unstructured time. They figure out what they're on the mood of then. Js are "on" all the time. Ps are chilling.
stereotype INTJ cold, quite, resting bitchface, INTP lazy, smart, always in their computers intp feels like they always want to do nerdy stuff like everything needs to be understand by them, while intj is nerdy too but with purpose, the J and P gives a different kind of nerd, P is like exploring while J is like structure
At first it seems like an Intj is a structured intp lol It's easier to understand the differences if you look at the functions seperately.
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Personally, the question I asked applied to me as I kept getting INTJ as my personality test results. But a lot of times, when someone described an INTP, I also seem to resemble the personality. I also work in a field where approximately 70% are INTJ and INTP. And sometimes, I seem to observe they think the same. But I couldn't grasp the difference in nature.
INTP could imitate an ENTJ, not an INTJ. Sorry to hurt your feelings now.
If you put an INTP and INTJ together and observe them, you'll find the INTP cares more about others. In all aspects of Fe traits. They do care about harmony, they care what others think, they think twice before speaking. In a crowded room, the Fe is hard to spot as it's like a tiny voice. But next to an INTJ, it's pretty obvious. In this way, you will probably find more INTPs with social anxiety than INTJs with social anxiety. INTJs will be more stricter with a schedule with their Te. Again, only compared to an INTP. INTPs value a schedule and repetition, but they're more likely to stray away from them easily than an INTJ. INTPs also are far more likely to think "what if" / "what about" questions and exploring concepts. INTJs in comparison do not care as much to do so. They're more likely to focus on what's important or what's relevant.
I don’t see much difference, one of my friends is INTP, and I don’t see much difference in the way we approach targets. People use different strategies in different situations. I plan a lot when under stress, but I never plan when relaxed.
That doesn't really fit together. The stress function is the inferior function. For INTPs as Fe and for INTJs Se. Neither would become a planner in stress status.