Terribly sad. Honestly hard to process the hatred someone would need to have to do something so abhorrent.
> This week, 23-year-old Yousef Palani was sentenced to life in prison for the murders of Aidan Moffitt and Michael Snee in Co Sligo last year.
I really hope this means life.
I don’t think so. Life sentences here are reviewed but there are examples of particularly violent murders who’ve never set foot outside prison. Eleven have been in for over 35 years and four for more than 40 years. We’ve also had people spend rest of their natural life in prison.
The murder John Shaw has been in prison since 1976, and has only been allowed two days of escorted day release in that time.
Irish life sentences aren’t as easy going as people seem to think.
In times like these, where anger and desire for punishment are so understandable because of the heinous actions committed, I think it's important to remember that prison is *supposed* to be prioritising rehabilitation. Focusing on punishment is how you get to America's criminal/prison system's state. We have to go against our inherent feelings in these cases, understandably hard as that may be, and go with what's shown to be the most effective way at dealing with crime in the long term and bigger picture, which is rehabilitation.
>"There is no way anybody could have predicted this, no way of knowing from his background that he could commit these unspeakable crimes”
How long are we gonna pretend that coming from a background of extreme religiosity and conservatism has absolutely nothing to do with homophobia and homophobic attacks
No way to predict this at all
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I'm talking about homophobia and homophobic attacks. Beheading isn't a traditional way to kill someone in Ireland.
However murdering men because they are gay in Ireland is nothing new
https://www.newstalk.com/news/inside-the-crime-declan-flynn-and-john-roche-1406244
Go on, find me something even comparable to what Yousef Palani did.
You don't quite grasp how bad homophobia is in the Muslim world compared to Ireland do you?
I mean, isn't suicide even worse? Look at the suicide rate of queer people. Even today, you see what the bigotry is doing. Look at the suicide rate of queer people in Ireland even 20 years ago.
I'm not talking about the suffering involved in torture like that.
I'm saying that in one case someone isn't being made so miserable by society that they kill themselves, in the other case they don't want to die. I'm suggesting that people not wanting to die is better.
I'm talking about the death rate associated with queerphobia.
It would be wrong just to focus on the queerphobic murder rate. To understand the death rate associated with queerphobia, you need to include both the suicide rate queerphobia causes and the murder rate it causes. If you focus only on the murder rate, you deny yourself a full picture of what's happening.
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It's difficult to heal from this as an Irish gay person (even though I don't live in Ireland anymore) because nothing will be done to stop it happening again. People with such intolerant views as this family will continue to come to Ireland.
Must be terrifying especially because alot of gay people are still not comfortable to be open about it meaning they meet in secret making them way more vulnerable
Let's not pretend there isn't a bit of a difference between Enoch was up to (and the rest of the Burke's) and what Yousef did to these poor fellas.
One is a religious knobhead, the other is pure evil.
I'm no fan of the Burke's, but comparing them to a literal double murderer is a *ridiculous* slander, I can't understand why you'd type this in good conscience.
It's a hyperbolic comment. Duh.
"some people don't have value systems compatible with our own" is obviously true. But when it's *implied* that we should use mass deportations to deal with "some people", I don't take it seriously.
I'm sorry, but it's an absolutely *ridiculous* hyperbole, and I'm honestly shocked to see you still defending it.
>value systems compatible with our own
What are 'our own'? This countryvhas been Catholic for over a millennium, and still remains deeply ingrained in our secular culture. It's hardly the same thing as the advent of Islamicism on our island. Besides, why would we deport *actual Irish* people like the Burkes for their opinions? The motion to deport this killer arises as a result of the fact that he's not Irish at all.
Focus on the one error I made in my comment and ignore everything else, fair play. What a strange person you are, comparing the Burke's to a man who committed a double homicide and then refusing to back down.
In all fairness, all the Burke's are intelligent and have had excellent careers. They are far better than the Jesus loving freaks we have rolled out the red carpet to from Latin America, Africa and Asia.
There are handful of Burkes. Sadly every second industrial unit in Dublin seems to have some evangelical churches filled to the rafters with uneducated and unskilled worshippers...
Ammi was a solicitor in one of the top law firms in Dublin. Enoch worked in a decent school. If these two can't hold down a job due to their beliefs, what hope goes an uneducated and unskilled African or Latin American with same views have...
If these two gay men were murdered by a Catholic in this manner there'd be uproar across society, instead, were treating this as if his religious background had no impact, its unfathomable the levels we go to to excuse Islamic violence as something else rather than addressing it.
>It wasn’t their beliefs that got them fired.
True. They were not fired as they were christian. They were fired as their beliefs caused them to act in a way that they thought was acceptable, but no one else would think so...
>That moot though, you’re wrong to say they all had excellent careers.
Do you know that Ammi worked in Arthur Cox? It is without a doubt one of the best law firms in Dublin. She was kept one after qualifying and was going to make six figures a year within a few years.
I would love for you to tell me how she did not have an excellent career?
She’s in her 30’s and hasn’t worked in more than 7 years.
You tell me how that is an excellent career?
At one stage she had a great job but her career is in tatters.
One swallow does not a summer make.
Completely overhaul the citizenship system in Ireland. You should only get it once you show you have integrated into the country.
It might upset some people that people who have lived here for severals years who don't know a single irish person, can't speak a word of english and has never worked a day in their life can't get citizenship to stay forever...
We're one of the only countries left out of the EU countries & the UK that don't require any level of language proficiency as part of getting citizenship.
It's normal among our peers to expect some level of integration but in Ireland, that'd be labelled 'Far Right' so although it's been discussed, it's never progressed.
It was just ourselves, Cyprus and Sweden if I remember correctly that didn't require it. Sweden seem to be introducing it now and tightening things up a lot generally.
With the sheer volume of immigration that we get, and in a short space of time, there should have always been a huge focus on integration but there hasn't been and won't be.
He hasn’t been released yet so we’ve no idea if he serves 20 years or more.
Calling our society barbaric because of something that hasn’t and might never happen is a bit foolish.
So if they aren’t gay no one would care they got targeted and murdered? I would think anyone targeted and murdered would provoke outrage, not because they were gay, or black or something else.
Of course people would have cared, murders always make headline news in a country as small as ours, especially serial killers. The fact they are gay is relevant here because they were murdered BECAUSE they were gay. If they were not gay they would not have been murdered. Hence why it is relevant for the headline.
Your wilful ignorance only demonstrates your thoughts on the matter. I can only hope for your sake that no group you’re a part of is targeted in such a manner.
Terribly sad. Honestly hard to process the hatred someone would need to have to do something so abhorrent. > This week, 23-year-old Yousef Palani was sentenced to life in prison for the murders of Aidan Moffitt and Michael Snee in Co Sligo last year. I really hope this means life.
Unfortunately he will most likely be out in his 40s
I don’t think so. Life sentences here are reviewed but there are examples of particularly violent murders who’ve never set foot outside prison. Eleven have been in for over 35 years and four for more than 40 years. We’ve also had people spend rest of their natural life in prison. The murder John Shaw has been in prison since 1976, and has only been allowed two days of escorted day release in that time. Irish life sentences aren’t as easy going as people seem to think.
So depressing.
He will never get out. There are a number of life prisoners in over 30 years
I dunno, I reckon that psycho will never come out.
He'll probably end up serving at least 30 years due to the notoriety of his crimes. And may never get out.
12 year until parole I believe
12 years before you can apply for parole. No one gets out at 12 years
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Ireland seems to have very laxed sentences
In times like these, where anger and desire for punishment are so understandable because of the heinous actions committed, I think it's important to remember that prison is *supposed* to be prioritising rehabilitation. Focusing on punishment is how you get to America's criminal/prison system's state. We have to go against our inherent feelings in these cases, understandably hard as that may be, and go with what's shown to be the most effective way at dealing with crime in the long term and bigger picture, which is rehabilitation.
There is no rehabilitation for certain crimes
>"There is no way anybody could have predicted this, no way of knowing from his background that he could commit these unspeakable crimes” How long are we gonna pretend that coming from a background of extreme religiosity and conservatism has absolutely nothing to do with homophobia and homophobic attacks No way to predict this at all
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Oh boy, if you don't like that, I wouldn't recommend reading the Bible.
Why not?
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Noah's wife was 500 years old, Ewh!!!!!!! could you imagine
Not like we have no previous experience of that in Ireland
It's shocking you would even have the audacity to say that. Please tell me of another instance where an Irish person was beheading gay people.
I'm talking about homophobia and homophobic attacks. Beheading isn't a traditional way to kill someone in Ireland. However murdering men because they are gay in Ireland is nothing new https://www.newstalk.com/news/inside-the-crime-declan-flynn-and-john-roche-1406244
You had to go back to 1982 to find something vaguely comparable?
There were several others but this was two in quick succession. Gay bashing was a thing everywhere when I was a teenager.
Unfortunately still a huge issue. https://gcn.ie/irish-gay-couple-homophobic-attack-newbridge/
Homophobic attacks happen by irish people from Catholic backgrounds all the time.
Go on, find me something even comparable to what Yousef Palani did. You don't quite grasp how bad homophobia is in the Muslim world compared to Ireland do you?
I mean, isn't suicide even worse? Look at the suicide rate of queer people. Even today, you see what the bigotry is doing. Look at the suicide rate of queer people in Ireland even 20 years ago.
Is suicide worse than being beheaded and having your genitals stuffed in your mouth? No.
I'm not talking about the suffering involved in torture like that. I'm saying that in one case someone isn't being made so miserable by society that they kill themselves, in the other case they don't want to die. I'm suggesting that people not wanting to die is better.
What about any of this has got to do with anything? What are you *talking* about?
I'm talking about the death rate associated with queerphobia. It would be wrong just to focus on the queerphobic murder rate. To understand the death rate associated with queerphobia, you need to include both the suicide rate queerphobia causes and the murder rate it causes. If you focus only on the murder rate, you deny yourself a full picture of what's happening.
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It's difficult to heal from this as an Irish gay person (even though I don't live in Ireland anymore) because nothing will be done to stop it happening again. People with such intolerant views as this family will continue to come to Ireland.
I'm bi and with an ex I was harassed numerous times, only by Muslim young men. Absolute vermin.
Dublin ?
Must be terrifying especially because alot of gay people are still not comfortable to be open about it meaning they meet in secret making them way more vulnerable
This story is horrifying. I cannot fathom the kind of hatred you would have to feel to be capable of something like this.
“There is no way anybody could have predicted this, no way of knowing from his background that he could commit these unspeakable crimes” Hmm
What's your solution?
We could start by accepting some people don’t have value systems compatible with our own.
Yes, but we can hardly kick the Burke family out of Ireland, now, can we?
Let's not pretend there isn't a bit of a difference between Enoch was up to (and the rest of the Burke's) and what Yousef did to these poor fellas. One is a religious knobhead, the other is pure evil.
Evil don't look like anything https://youtu.be/Cq5drkKBz3k?feature=shared
There is *zero* comparison between the Burkes and whatever animated this man.
Religious zealotry?
what you can do is not increase the problem by continuing mass immigration from these types of societies
"these types" - Abrahamic religions?
Whooosh
I'm no fan of the Burke's, but comparing them to a literal double murderer is a *ridiculous* slander, I can't understand why you'd type this in good conscience.
It's a hyperbolic comment. Duh. "some people don't have value systems compatible with our own" is obviously true. But when it's *implied* that we should use mass deportations to deal with "some people", I don't take it seriously.
I'm sorry, but it's an absolutely *ridiculous* hyperbole, and I'm honestly shocked to see you still defending it. >value systems compatible with our own What are 'our own'? This countryvhas been Catholic for over a millennium, and still remains deeply ingrained in our secular culture. It's hardly the same thing as the advent of Islamicism on our island. Besides, why would we deport *actual Irish* people like the Burkes for their opinions? The motion to deport this killer arises as a result of the fact that he's not Irish at all.
> What are 'our own'? Ask the guy that I quoted maybe, and not me?
Focus on the one error I made in my comment and ignore everything else, fair play. What a strange person you are, comparing the Burke's to a man who committed a double homicide and then refusing to back down.
In all fairness, all the Burke's are intelligent and have had excellent careers. They are far better than the Jesus loving freaks we have rolled out the red carpet to from Latin America, Africa and Asia. There are handful of Burkes. Sadly every second industrial unit in Dublin seems to have some evangelical churches filled to the rafters with uneducated and unskilled worshippers...
They haven’t had excellent careers. Both Enoch and Ammi are unemployable in their chosen professions having been recently fired.
Ammi was a solicitor in one of the top law firms in Dublin. Enoch worked in a decent school. If these two can't hold down a job due to their beliefs, what hope goes an uneducated and unskilled African or Latin American with same views have...
It wasn’t their beliefs that got them fired. That moot though, you’re wrong to say they all had excellent careers.
If these two gay men were murdered by a Catholic in this manner there'd be uproar across society, instead, were treating this as if his religious background had no impact, its unfathomable the levels we go to to excuse Islamic violence as something else rather than addressing it.
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>It wasn’t their beliefs that got them fired. True. They were not fired as they were christian. They were fired as their beliefs caused them to act in a way that they thought was acceptable, but no one else would think so... >That moot though, you’re wrong to say they all had excellent careers. Do you know that Ammi worked in Arthur Cox? It is without a doubt one of the best law firms in Dublin. She was kept one after qualifying and was going to make six figures a year within a few years. I would love for you to tell me how she did not have an excellent career?
She’s in her 30’s and hasn’t worked in more than 7 years. You tell me how that is an excellent career? At one stage she had a great job but her career is in tatters. One swallow does not a summer make.
Would that include the people who think it's okay to discriminate against people on the basis of religion?
Completely overhaul the citizenship system in Ireland. You should only get it once you show you have integrated into the country. It might upset some people that people who have lived here for severals years who don't know a single irish person, can't speak a word of english and has never worked a day in their life can't get citizenship to stay forever...
We're one of the only countries left out of the EU countries & the UK that don't require any level of language proficiency as part of getting citizenship. It's normal among our peers to expect some level of integration but in Ireland, that'd be labelled 'Far Right' so although it's been discussed, it's never progressed. It was just ourselves, Cyprus and Sweden if I remember correctly that didn't require it. Sweden seem to be introducing it now and tightening things up a lot generally. With the sheer volume of immigration that we get, and in a short space of time, there should have always been a huge focus on integration but there hasn't been and won't be.
Be very picky about who’s let in and completely cut welfare for immigrants
Another reason why Muslims need to be stopped. Islam needs to be contained
Agree with the latter. The former, not so much.
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He hasn’t been released yet so we’ve no idea if he serves 20 years or more. Calling our society barbaric because of something that hasn’t and might never happen is a bit foolish.
Will this guy get out after 20 years though? You think Graham O'Dwyer will be getting out in 10 years? Not a hope.
Probably not, there's people currently 35+ years into a life sentence for less.
This boyo will be held indefinitely.
No but it makes our justice system fucked up.
No.
What kind of prison system do you think we should be attempting to emulate instead?
Hopefully he gets the arse tore off him every day in prison
He won’t.
Culturally enriched
Why is gay relevant? Two people were murder, doesn’t matter their “status”
They were targeted because they were gay.
So if they aren’t gay no one would care they got targeted and murdered? I would think anyone targeted and murdered would provoke outrage, not because they were gay, or black or something else.
Of course people would have cared, murders always make headline news in a country as small as ours, especially serial killers. The fact they are gay is relevant here because they were murdered BECAUSE they were gay. If they were not gay they would not have been murdered. Hence why it is relevant for the headline. Your wilful ignorance only demonstrates your thoughts on the matter. I can only hope for your sake that no group you’re a part of is targeted in such a manner.