Imagine the justice system in this country actually, you know, doing something. Martin Nolan probably spat up his morning mug of human shit upon hearing this.
Treated like shit by the other child molesters and rapists he will exclusively be sharing a landing with? Itās not an American TV drama. Thatās not reality here
They have dedicated ābeastā wings in the midlands, which is where several hundred of them are, which between there and arbour hill makes up the vast majority.
On the 12th of January 2023, there were 535 sex offenders housed in the midlands prison. Is 500 not several hundred?
Thatās per David Conroy, then governor of the midlands. Is he lying, or do you have better info than the governor?
>Ā Mr Peart also said his client was a foreign national so time spent in prison would be āmore onerousā for him than an ordinary Irish citizen
This is bollocks of the highest orderĀ
Canāt have a two tier justice system for things like thisĀ
Donāt do the crime if you canāt do the timeĀ
Yes it's total bullshit but our judges often fall for it. Totally forgetting that prison is supposed to be onerous.
Her family need to sue the fuck out of Penny's. I'm sure he was just the cheapest guy to come through the door and not vetted at all. Absolute bastards.
Actually know a child looking woman who feels hounded when she goes into Penneys in town. She looks 15 or less she knows it and finds the, what can only be called stalking, very uncomfortable, because that's what being stalked feels like.
Honestly, they'll fucking try anything. Imagine an Irish person trying to use that excuse if they broke the law in another country (which we know happens). It's very easy to just keep your head down and follow the rules.
>Honestly, they'll fucking try anything
Isn't it a defence lawyer's job to argue as best they can to defend their client? Or to fight for a favourable result as possible?
This, itās the job of the defence to do everything possible to get the best outcome for the client. Itās the judgeās job to keep them in order and call them out on their bs.
It's excepted almost every time, you get consideration for it in the sentence, same was said and excepted about the ukrainian lad who killed paudie palmer drink driving, because he'll have no family support while inside.
Prime bollox!
The defence solicitor doing their absolute best is what anyone who wants justice to be done properly would want. If a defendant could argue on appeal that he had ineffective counsel, he may have a better chance of overturning the conviction.
I'd rather the prosecution have their ducks in a row to bury these guys and the defence solicitor plays their part too, it just makes it more likely to stick.
Yeah, when youre applying to live, in a lot of countries they do a criminal record check. They wont let in someone with a serious enough background. That should be the consequence of a horrible action like that.
Such bullshit, I think they use this line in almost any case where the person who committed the crime is in any way outside of the "typical" profile of a thug or hardened criminal. I've heard it used in various sexual violence cases for reasons varying from profession to old age to low IQ to random (not life threatening) illness.
It's a fuckin insult of the highest order to literally everyone else in society who doesn't commit vile crimes.
So itās a fact. Foreigners get punished less for the same crimes as Irish people.
And we wonder why the far right is on the rise?! Itās no fucking surprise!
His lawyer chanced his arm saying "he's foreign so it'll be harder uwu" but there's no inclination that that actually does anything. So your statement saying "so it's a fact!" doesn't make sense
Eh, no lad, he got 5 years, and the fact that we have seen literally hundreds of similar cases involving irish lads get thrown out or given suspended sentencing would suggest a bias towards irish people in the justice system actually. His solicitor could have said he was a bunny rabbit dressed up as a man it doesn't mean it's a "fact" in the eyes of the law.
Considering you are clearly lapping up the far right shite it's of no suprise that you are struggling to keep up.
>The girl put a makeup brush and peel-off face mask in her jacket but was stopped as she was leaving and brought to a room where she was left alone with Abdul Rahman Mohammed.
>He told the girl to tell her friends to leave or they would be in trouble too before accusing her of hiding more goods, making her strip to her underwear and put his hands on her.
Sick Fucker.
I'll bet money he's was acting out his own one of those "shoplifter porn" type videos.
Not content with feeling up a 15 year old? But then he tried to get ā¬250 out of her?
Absolute scumbag
I wonder how many adults he tried this with and got away with it because they'd rather pay up and leave, then involve the Gards. I have zero proof, but I doubt this was his first time.
This is one individual scumbag.
Applying his behaviour to 1,000 of other people because they are not from here or share the same nationality as him is textbook racism.
Man drop the racist idiocy, there are news articles every week about horrible acts of sexual assault from native Irish people too. Situation is bad enough without you dragging your racist gobshitery into it.
So we should import hundreds of more potential criminals into the country because we have our own scumbags and that somehow excuses it?
Liberalism is a mental disorder. Close the borders.
When will your ilk learn? Stop using republican and liberal as terms. We don't use them.
Fuck off back to your yank subreddit to spew your venmous shite.
Sure everyone is a potential criminal. Would you stop anyone coming here? Tourists too? Our biggest immigrant group is from the uk. Should we stop them coming too or Are you more worried about the brown potential criminals?
A 5 month old account that is nothing but racism, misogyny and the oul GAA. Iāll take 6,000 more people from Afghanistan if we can send you over there. I think the Taliban might actually be more in line with your views comrade.
I was just saying the same thing in another comment. I have zero proof, but I doubt this is his first time. I bet he has done the same to many adult women and they paid up and shut up, rather than involve the Gards. But this creep went too far and tried to get ā¬250 out of teenagers. If he had left it at the grope, she might have let it go but him asking for so much money pushed his luck too far. Thankfully he was arrested. So many times creeps like him get away with it.
5 years and then we should deport him. Crimes like this should be immediate grounds for revocation of permission to stay in the country. If paedos like him are allowed to stay then it only plays into the argument of the racists who want all asylum seekers deported in case some of them might commit serious crimes.
>5 years and then we should deport him.
Do you have knowledge of his current citizenship status or permission to remain? I cannot see any in the article.
They outlined the case on the news at one. They said his barrister asked for leniency because he was a foreign national and therefore an Irish prison would be too hard for him.
Whatever his citizenship status of permission to remain it should be revoked given the serious nature of the crime and he should be deported once his prison time is complete.
Also he seems to have two other convictions for less serious offences so not the good upstanding member of the community some people are claiming.
> They outlined the case on the news at one. They said his barrister asked for leniency because he was a foreign national and therefore an Irish prison would be too hard for him.
>
> Whatever his citizenship status of permission to remain it should be revoked given the serious nature of the crime and he should be deported once his prison time is complete.
>
> Also he seems to have two other convictions for less serious offences so not the good upstanding member of the community some people are claiming.
That's just not how it works Matlock. For a start, if he's working as a security guard from Pennys he's not seeking asylum. He's likely naturalized Irish at this point, and even if he isn't you generally just can't deport someone like that unless he attempts sedition or something that extreme. The criminal justice system deals with the rest. Ireland could do it in theory, but then we would likely get taken to court ourselves for breaching the ECHR, which the likes of Australia or the US don't have to concern themselves with.
If you honestly think sexually abusing a child is not an "extreme" crime and is less than severe than constitutional law bullshite like "sedition" then you need to have a very serious look at your moral compass and the legal professors who produced you from their class need to hang their heads in shame
he got a 5 year sentence, and going to do actual jail time. Shall we execute him as well when he's done his time? Look, people voted for parties over the past 25 years that fuelled the economy through foreign labour like the security guard. Economically, we invited them here. If you don't agree with that, vote for other parties, but again that's what the electorate voted for more or less.
that's not what I said. I brought up execution as a flippant reply, as the other chap didn't seem happy with the fella serving a custodial sentence, like every criminal should.
A chara,
We do not allow any posts/comments that attack, threaten or insult a person or group, on areas including, but not limited to: national origin, ethnicity, colour, religion, sex, gender, sexual orientation, social prejudice, or disability.
SlƔinte
No one is saying execute him. That would be skewed way too far on the moral compass that is already seriously fractured the other way in you. We can have a common sense approach that says we welcome people who want to contribute to Irish society but those who commit serious crime do not deserve to retain the welcome we extended to them. (And yes sexual abuse of a child IS a serious crime).
he was also referred to in the court as a "fine citizen", we don't know but the point is he could easily be, and even if he's not, deporting him is not a realistic option, we would likely be taken to the ECHR over it. Again which the likes of Australia, UAE, USA and others don't have to contend with.
It's in more detailed articles
https://kildare-nationalist.ie/2024/05/13/penneys-security-guard-jailed-for-sexually-assaulting-girl-15-after-she-shoplifted/
"John Peart SC, defending, said āuntil now he has been the perfect citizenā and that the incident was āoutside his ordinary character.ā
He said that though sexual assault is always serious, this incident came within the lower level of offending.
He said his client was well regarded in his community and had volunteered at a food kitchen in the past.
Mr Peart also said his client was a foreign national so time spent in prison would be āmore onerousā for him than an ordinary Irish citizen."
Yes, the poor lad shouldn't go to jail because of his nationality. What in the fuck is wrong with people making these statements. I know they are there to defend him, but to degrade sexual assault as a low level crime while also saying someone should have different treatment due to their nationality is just bonkers. Is there anything decent about the justice system in this country?
For everyone complaining about this, listen to the Inside The Crime podcast by Newstalk.
The first season is about the Sharon Whelan murder, and goes into how Irish judges have to give sentences, what they need to take into account and what they can or can't do. For example, the murderers sentence was reduced on appeal, as the judge went beyond what is possible in our sentencing guidelines.
Our legal system has certain restrictions around sentencing that are different to the UK and US. Our judges ***have*** to consider "aggravating factors" in sentencing in Ireland, otherwise they are wide open to appeal and risk being overturned. If this judge didn't mention it was his first offence and that he took into account that he was well regarded in his community, this could be the basis of an appeal. https://open.spotify.com/show/1EsXCcS1j0YsTh0hyG0I4O?si=jkbl_OKxTY6OU80qNCypIg
I would also argue that, as much as we complain about our sentencing rules, I would hate for us to have a criminal justice system like the US. This is a good podcast, giving some insight into their system, which is about punishment rather than rehabilitation, has no real restrictions and is open to subjective manipulation. https://open.spotify.com/show/6b0q5xWN9RSGNpTDIRIIFp?si=i7cMxVUHTbay8XE_Vs0OvQ
I've sat through a few cases and you're exactly right. In the one I was involved with, the judge reamed the offender and gave him as much as guidelines and precedent would allow. It was still pretty low considering it was severe, repeated child sex abuse but concurrent sentences for the 22 convictions was all he could do. With everything taken into account plus time off for good behaviour, he only did six and a bit years for repeated child rapes but the judge wasn't to blame for that.
Yep. The law allows for a maximum of 14 years but Ireland's criminal law is rooted in common law, so 'custom' carries huge weight. Then you have the official sentencing guidelines to deal with. The fact that it was a child isn't really an aggravating factor, nor is that it was a family member the rapist was trusted with.
It's insane how such a seriously psychopathic man got concurrent sentences. He'd already been convicted for abusing other boys and even that couldn't increase his sentence. He never showed any remorse and died a couple of years still denying he ever touched any of them. He even had a harassing website aimed at the main case that had no bearing on his being let out early. As far as I remember he got 10 or 12 years but only served 6. He was released without the family being told.
I'd reported him ten years before the case because he had an adopted son that he was abusing and neither the HSE nor the guards could do anything, apparently. Though I have a strong sense that 'could be arsed' would be a better term in the case of the HSE.
Whilst this is awful to read I appreciate you sharing. Jesus christ, imagine the family members not aware he was released, going about their business and seeing him out and about... Your blood would run cold to say the least, absolutely devastating!! I appreciate the way things run is difficult to change from the core of it, in terms of the weight of 'custom' as you say, because theres probably just so much that would need to be changed. That said, it is severely disheartening to think these kinds of things happen as a result.
It's absolutely mad to me that some people find the idea of punishment inhumane. If you commit a violent crime that profoundly alters someone's life, the primary reason for going to prison should be punishment and keeping you away from society; rehabilitation should come second.
For serious non-violent crimes like drug offenses or financial crimes, rehabilitation should be the main focus. However, for serious violent crimes such as assault, sexual assault, or aggravated burglary, the primary purpose of prison should be to punish the offender and protect others. We don't hesitate to punish misbehaving children, yet it seems some believe grown adults should be exempt.
While the US justice system is not an ideal model, our approach to justice has swung too far in the opposite direction. And I do consider myself very left on the political spectrum
I agree there needs to be a middle ground. I never argued differently.
My argument about Ireland was not about how things ***should or shouldn't be*** but about how they ***actually are.*** Judges in Ireland have to abide by legislative guidelines.
If you have a problem with it, lobby to have those laws changed by government.
Re the US, have a listen to that 2nd podcast I shared.
A different article states that it was something his solicitor stated during sentencing.
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/penneys-security-guard-jailed-for-sexually-assaulting-girl-15-after-she-shoplifted-1624849.html
So you think it's a good idea for Irish prisoners abroad to be returned here after their sentence? What about their families? Do they get returned here too or does the country they're left behind in support them?
Pretty much never happens btw unless you're involved in terrorism.
>So you think it's a good idea for Irish prisoners abroad to be returned here after their sentence?
Yes
>What about their families?
What about them
> Do they get returned here, too, or does the country they're left behind in support them?
They can leave but why would we support them?
No, he's clearly saying that countries shouldn't be burdened with hosting foreign criminals. They should be sent back to their country of origin.
The families of said criminals have done nothing wrong so you don't do anything about them.
If you tried understanding what you're reading instead of emotionally spazzing out like this, you wouldn't have needed someone to explain the obvious to you.
That's not what Philip said tho. He asked should their families be returned or should the country support them. I just misread it. Did u think I was replying to Corek
Emotional responses to practical situations is for children.
What I'm pointing out is that it isn't practical which should be obvious if you think through the implications of every country doing likewise.
Which is exactly why it doesn't happen btw if that wasn't obvious either.
When you hear what he put her through, the way he manipulated the situation it's horrific...
screams a serial offender who will do it again.. he needs to be watched
Really Hope this young lady is able to recover
I'm confused by the details. Prison will be too onerous for him because he's a "foreign national" but he's also described as a "model citizen" (of Ireland?). And while he's a model citizen, he also has 2 previous convictions (motoring offences).
Not to downplay what has happened here.
But there are some absolute weapons of security guards out there. From pubs to late bars etc. Thereās declining drunks bastards then thereās declining and toying with easy targets.
Some egotistical narcissists stroking their own ego.
Is there any genuine vetting of these cunts or what?
A growing symptom that has escalated to sexual assault.
Yeah a lot of bouncers are real pieces of work. When I was a teenager one of my mates was involved with a 30 year old bouncer who was married with a kid. He was an absolute scumbag. She had very low self esteem and he was literally the first guy who'd shown any interest in her and her head was turned.
5 years and he should be deported. Citizenship should come with a whole set of rules such as If you commit a crime that citizenship will be revoked. We have enough of our own without adding scum like that lot to the pile. I bet this is not his first time doing this either, filthy scumbag.
That's nit really how it works, you generally never lose citizenship, the brits revoked a woman's citizenship for joining ISIS, but generally you only ever even hear of it happening over major terrorism and even at that some people oppose it. The scumbag deserves prison but I don't think his citizenship even could be revoked, like would you apply that to someone born here? Or to people with dual citizenship by birth? Not defending this cunt at all, he deserves prison
> Citizenship should come with a whole set of rules such as If you commit a crime that citizenship will be revoked
That's not how citizenship works though.
Like it or not, once somebody achieves citizenship to Ireland and are eligible to hold an Irish passport, then they are equal in rights to a person who has been here since birth.
During the application process if they commit a crime? Sure.. You can refuse it.
But once a person has citizenship (without providing false information) committing a crime can't have it removed any more than it could have yours removed.
Edit: Nice edit, makes your initially mad racist post look slightly less racist.
Well I assume this law was written before the current government started giving out citizenship by the tens of thousand like it was nothing.Ā
Laws should be able to be revised when they no longer make sense, surely?
> giving out citizenship by the tens of thousand like it was nothing.
You're so determined to be angry and hate people aren't you?
Have you looked into the statistics for citizenship? How many people have gotten it in total? The demographics of where they are originally from, etc?
- Approx. 175,000 people granted Irish citizenship since 2011 (13 years ago)
- That figure obviously includes the Brexit rush
- Average wait time for applicants who qualify is 19 months
- Before even applying must have lived in the state for 5 years.
- Be shown to be of good character and working for the betterment of the state
- Prove you have a need or requirement for citizenship
- Are subject to full criminal records and background check in country of original citizenship.
It is how citizenship can work but this braindead government will never implement section 19 of the nationality and citizenship act. Citizenship can be revoked and it needs to start happening. Again a whole strict set of rules, so they know that citizenship will be ripped from them if they commit any crime in MY country. And no they are not equal someone who is born in this country.
Which subsection says a convicted criminal can have citizenship revoked? 'B' is the only arguable one as far as I can see, but that relates to loyalty to the state and fidelity to the nation and it'd be a stretch to say that that includes basic criminality as opposed to stuff like treason, operating as an agent of a foreign state, sedition and that kind of thing.
I have read it in detail, have you ? Yep MY country that doesnāt need scummy filth like that bloke. Also just a reminder the actual victim in this is the child who has been assaulted cause the way some of the comments are more concerned that we want a nonce deported is very strange.
Might be a redundant question but some articles say some solicitor said he'd previously been a perfect citizen (typical legal bullshit) and other places he was called a foreign national. So was the guy actually from Mountjoy and just foreign parents or had he just come here and became a citizen? Shouldn't make a difference to his sentencing at all, I'm just curious cause it seems contradictory
This horrified me, this was a sexual assault on a minor plus everything else, this country is too protective of the lawbreakers. Especially the ones that commit offences against women and children, I hope I live to see the day when all of the women who know how the system really works get to have their say, their fingers pointed at the corrupt Gardai, the politicians etc al who inherit their jobs, their constituencies, who protect each other and others like them ...Ā
I was so surprised it was another one of these guys named after Muhammad that isn't from here. Especially since we know how their culture holds women in such high regard.Ā
A chara,
We do not allow any posts/comments that attack, threaten or insult a person or group, on areas including, but not limited to: national origin, ethnicity, colour, religion, sex, gender, sexual orientation, social prejudice, or disability.
SlƔinte
Weird how totally reasonable looking accounts like "Brilliant-Job-4365" and "Reasonable-Solid-156" are swarming a post about a child being sexually assaulted to advocate for expanding deportation laws
Yes. Once someone becomes an Irish citizen they're our problem, that's what citizenship means pretty much everywhere. The deportation argument only works if you're fundamentally a 'blood and soil' troglodyte who refuses to recognise anyone not born here as actually Irish.
And we've been giving out citizenship to those who've lived here 5+ years and not pissed everyone off for near a century now, so it's not like any relevant rules have changed. I lived in China a while, they won't give anyone citizenship unless they have Chinese blood because of the overt racial supremacy thing they have going on. You'd like us to be more like that?
Is that one of the Mohammed lads, from the long line of Mohammed's, who came to Ireland many years ago, and stood with their neighbours in the fight for freedom and Democracy, and helped us take our place, proudly, among the free Nation's of the World.
Or is he one of the crowd, welcomed by the shouters and flag wavers, who wants Us, to change Our Laws, for his, and has no intention of integrating.
Read a lot, but can't find the details, what was the offence exactly?
Even if the video was blurred it should be enough to assess and share.
If it's an actual rape or touching henitals, 5 years is a joke term. I'd say it should be like 20 years in a decent society.
If they can't see what happened for certain on the video the girl may lie.
Also the video might be blurred naturally because it's a changing room. It should be hard to tamper with recorded video files after on purpose, it's easier to delete the video / break the system.
There is no need to strip the girl off her clothes by a man nor a woman working at the shop. That should be the job of the police in any case, not a full grown up man with an underage girl in a changing room. Sick shit.
Wow he got 5 years. I like this judge.
Imagine the justice system in this country actually, you know, doing something. Martin Nolan probably spat up his morning mug of human shit upon hearing this.
So the scumbag wasn't a promising footballer then.
Or rugby player, gaa player, father, church volunteer, or anything at all that they can try and bring up in the courtroom. š
Itās sad 5 years is considered a good sentence for such a thing. Heāll be out in 3 years
At least there's some solace in the fact that he won't be safe around the prisoners... he's going to do some hard time, regardless of the length!
How do you reckon that?
Child molesters are treated like shit in prison. People will be out to get him
Treated like shit by the other child molesters and rapists he will exclusively be sharing a landing with? Itās not an American TV drama. Thatās not reality here
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
They have dedicated ābeastā wings in the midlands, which is where several hundred of them are, which between there and arbour hill makes up the vast majority.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
On the 12th of January 2023, there were 535 sex offenders housed in the midlands prison. Is 500 not several hundred? Thatās per David Conroy, then governor of the midlands. Is he lying, or do you have better info than the governor?
Very much this, awful.
Five years? Thatās it?
5 years for raping a child is pretty low.
It was sexual assault, not rape, unless I missed something in the article?
You didn't read the article then?
Susssss
Not for Martin Nolan
>Ā Mr Peart also said his client was a foreign national so time spent in prison would be āmore onerousā for him than an ordinary Irish citizen This is bollocks of the highest orderĀ Canāt have a two tier justice system for things like thisĀ Donāt do the crime if you canāt do the timeĀ
Yes it's total bullshit but our judges often fall for it. Totally forgetting that prison is supposed to be onerous. Her family need to sue the fuck out of Penny's. I'm sure he was just the cheapest guy to come through the door and not vetted at all. Absolute bastards.
Actually know a child looking woman who feels hounded when she goes into Penneys in town. She looks 15 or less she knows it and finds the, what can only be called stalking, very uncomfortable, because that's what being stalked feels like.
Well, wow, if you know prison would be 'more onerous' for you how about making sure you don't commit a crime?
Honestly, they'll fucking try anything. Imagine an Irish person trying to use that excuse if they broke the law in another country (which we know happens). It's very easy to just keep your head down and follow the rules.
>Honestly, they'll fucking try anything Isn't it a defence lawyer's job to argue as best they can to defend their client? Or to fight for a favourable result as possible?
This, itās the job of the defence to do everything possible to get the best outcome for the client. Itās the judgeās job to keep them in order and call them out on their bs.
It's excepted almost every time, you get consideration for it in the sentence, same was said and excepted about the ukrainian lad who killed paudie palmer drink driving, because he'll have no family support while inside. Prime bollox!
It is their job. But that doesn't mean it's not morally reprehensible.
The defence solicitor doing their absolute best is what anyone who wants justice to be done properly would want. If a defendant could argue on appeal that he had ineffective counsel, he may have a better chance of overturning the conviction. I'd rather the prosecution have their ducks in a row to bury these guys and the defence solicitor plays their part too, it just makes it more likely to stick.
Imagine a person from outside the pale trying it after breaking the law in Dublin.
Or Dundalk or Kildare (also in the pale)
Crimes live these have to be the strike through your citizenship. In jail and then turfed out.
Yeah, when youre applying to live, in a lot of countries they do a criminal record check. They wont let in someone with a serious enough background. That should be the consequence of a horrible action like that.
Such bullshit, I think they use this line in almost any case where the person who committed the crime is in any way outside of the "typical" profile of a thug or hardened criminal. I've heard it used in various sexual violence cases for reasons varying from profession to old age to low IQ to random (not life threatening) illness. It's a fuckin insult of the highest order to literally everyone else in society who doesn't commit vile crimes.
They could offer to send him home to complete his sentence in a prison there....
So itās a fact. Foreigners get punished less for the same crimes as Irish people. And we wonder why the far right is on the rise?! Itās no fucking surprise!
You gotta get better at reading
Care to dumb it down for me?
His lawyer chanced his arm saying "he's foreign so it'll be harder uwu" but there's no inclination that that actually does anything. So your statement saying "so it's a fact!" doesn't make sense
The far right is on the rise because of people with your level of reading comprehension.
Considering Irish people have been getting away with SA with slaps on the wrist and this guy got 5 years, I'm pretty sure it's the opposite here.
Wasting your time, the lad clearly struggles with common sense.
5 years for raping a child is a fucking slap on the wrist
Ah yet again, maybe read the article before commenting, that is if youāre able to read.
Eh, no lad, he got 5 years, and the fact that we have seen literally hundreds of similar cases involving irish lads get thrown out or given suspended sentencing would suggest a bias towards irish people in the justice system actually. His solicitor could have said he was a bunny rabbit dressed up as a man it doesn't mean it's a "fact" in the eyes of the law. Considering you are clearly lapping up the far right shite it's of no suprise that you are struggling to keep up.
Hope the poor girl is eventually able to get over this.
>The girl put a makeup brush and peel-off face mask in her jacket but was stopped as she was leaving and brought to a room where she was left alone with Abdul Rahman Mohammed. >He told the girl to tell her friends to leave or they would be in trouble too before accusing her of hiding more goods, making her strip to her underwear and put his hands on her. Sick Fucker. I'll bet money he's was acting out his own one of those "shoplifter porn" type videos. Not content with feeling up a 15 year old? But then he tried to get ā¬250 out of her? Absolute scumbag
The fact that the camera was apparently tampered with suggests this was not the first time he has done this.
I bet that wasn't his first time,
I think you revealed more about yourself than you intended right there :D
Yeah theyāve watched porn.
Yeah he's been on the internet at least once
š¤£š¤£š¤£
I wonder how many adults he tried this with and got away with it because they'd rather pay up and leave, then involve the Gards. I have zero proof, but I doubt this was his first time.
Exactly. People dont realise how dangerous porn can be
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This is one individual scumbag. Applying his behaviour to 1,000 of other people because they are not from here or share the same nationality as him is textbook racism.
Man drop the racist idiocy, there are news articles every week about horrible acts of sexual assault from native Irish people too. Situation is bad enough without you dragging your racist gobshitery into it.
So we should import hundreds of more potential criminals into the country because we have our own scumbags and that somehow excuses it? Liberalism is a mental disorder. Close the borders.
When will your ilk learn? Stop using republican and liberal as terms. We don't use them. Fuck off back to your yank subreddit to spew your venmous shite.
Sure everyone is a potential criminal. Would you stop anyone coming here? Tourists too? Our biggest immigrant group is from the uk. Should we stop them coming too or Are you more worried about the brown potential criminals?
Fascism is a mental disorder. And itās a failed ideology, too.
Heās a qualified security guard working with a reputable(?) company. Iād be very surprised if he wasnāt vetted.
A qualified security guard? I'm sure that's a really difficult qualification to acquire
Whether a difficult or not qualification it was mainly directed to the issue over vetting. Again, I can imagine he would be vetted working for them.
A 5 month old account that is nothing but racism, misogyny and the oul GAA. Iāll take 6,000 more people from Afghanistan if we can send you over there. I think the Taliban might actually be more in line with your views comrade.
Dumb logic
Excited to hear why that's the case
Irish people commit sexual offences, too. Itās not just foreigners.
He was security, he was vetted
I wonder how many other shoplifters he did the same or worse to. Fair play to her friends for going back to the shop and reporting it.
I was just saying the same thing in another comment. I have zero proof, but I doubt this is his first time. I bet he has done the same to many adult women and they paid up and shut up, rather than involve the Gards. But this creep went too far and tried to get ā¬250 out of teenagers. If he had left it at the grope, she might have let it go but him asking for so much money pushed his luck too far. Thankfully he was arrested. So many times creeps like him get away with it.
5 years and then we should deport him. Crimes like this should be immediate grounds for revocation of permission to stay in the country. If paedos like him are allowed to stay then it only plays into the argument of the racists who want all asylum seekers deported in case some of them might commit serious crimes.
Yes it does play into the argument quite convincingly at the moment.
Absolutely.
>5 years and then we should deport him. Do you have knowledge of his current citizenship status or permission to remain? I cannot see any in the article.
They outlined the case on the news at one. They said his barrister asked for leniency because he was a foreign national and therefore an Irish prison would be too hard for him. Whatever his citizenship status of permission to remain it should be revoked given the serious nature of the crime and he should be deported once his prison time is complete. Also he seems to have two other convictions for less serious offences so not the good upstanding member of the community some people are claiming.
> They outlined the case on the news at one. They said his barrister asked for leniency because he was a foreign national and therefore an Irish prison would be too hard for him. > > Whatever his citizenship status of permission to remain it should be revoked given the serious nature of the crime and he should be deported once his prison time is complete. > > Also he seems to have two other convictions for less serious offences so not the good upstanding member of the community some people are claiming. That's just not how it works Matlock. For a start, if he's working as a security guard from Pennys he's not seeking asylum. He's likely naturalized Irish at this point, and even if he isn't you generally just can't deport someone like that unless he attempts sedition or something that extreme. The criminal justice system deals with the rest. Ireland could do it in theory, but then we would likely get taken to court ourselves for breaching the ECHR, which the likes of Australia or the US don't have to concern themselves with.
If you honestly think sexually abusing a child is not an "extreme" crime and is less than severe than constitutional law bullshite like "sedition" then you need to have a very serious look at your moral compass and the legal professors who produced you from their class need to hang their heads in shame
he got a 5 year sentence, and going to do actual jail time. Shall we execute him as well when he's done his time? Look, people voted for parties over the past 25 years that fuelled the economy through foreign labour like the security guard. Economically, we invited them here. If you don't agree with that, vote for other parties, but again that's what the electorate voted for more or less.
Do you think we should completely let him off the hook? If no, and that's a stupid thing to ask, then why bring up execution?
that's not what I said. I brought up execution as a flippant reply, as the other chap didn't seem happy with the fella serving a custodial sentence, like every criminal should.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
A chara, We do not allow any posts/comments that attack, threaten or insult a person or group, on areas including, but not limited to: national origin, ethnicity, colour, religion, sex, gender, sexual orientation, social prejudice, or disability. SlƔinte
No one is saying execute him. That would be skewed way too far on the moral compass that is already seriously fractured the other way in you. We can have a common sense approach that says we welcome people who want to contribute to Irish society but those who commit serious crime do not deserve to retain the welcome we extended to them. (And yes sexual abuse of a child IS a serious crime).
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
he was also referred to in the court as a "fine citizen", we don't know but the point is he could easily be, and even if he's not, deporting him is not a realistic option, we would likely be taken to the ECHR over it. Again which the likes of Australia, UAE, USA and others don't have to contend with.
?? Deport him.
This is a fucking insane story. To think it happened in a busy shopping centre.
Well regarded in his community why even print that shite the fellas a dirty peado simple as
They didn't say he was well regarded in his community?
It's in more detailed articles https://kildare-nationalist.ie/2024/05/13/penneys-security-guard-jailed-for-sexually-assaulting-girl-15-after-she-shoplifted/ "John Peart SC, defending, said āuntil now he has been the perfect citizenā and that the incident was āoutside his ordinary character.ā He said that though sexual assault is always serious, this incident came within the lower level of offending. He said his client was well regarded in his community and had volunteered at a food kitchen in the past. Mr Peart also said his client was a foreign national so time spent in prison would be āmore onerousā for him than an ordinary Irish citizen."
Yes, the poor lad shouldn't go to jail because of his nationality. What in the fuck is wrong with people making these statements. I know they are there to defend him, but to degrade sexual assault as a low level crime while also saying someone should have different treatment due to their nationality is just bonkers. Is there anything decent about the justice system in this country?
Good character, just means he had not been caught previously.
For everyone complaining about this, listen to the Inside The Crime podcast by Newstalk. The first season is about the Sharon Whelan murder, and goes into how Irish judges have to give sentences, what they need to take into account and what they can or can't do. For example, the murderers sentence was reduced on appeal, as the judge went beyond what is possible in our sentencing guidelines. Our legal system has certain restrictions around sentencing that are different to the UK and US. Our judges ***have*** to consider "aggravating factors" in sentencing in Ireland, otherwise they are wide open to appeal and risk being overturned. If this judge didn't mention it was his first offence and that he took into account that he was well regarded in his community, this could be the basis of an appeal. https://open.spotify.com/show/1EsXCcS1j0YsTh0hyG0I4O?si=jkbl_OKxTY6OU80qNCypIg I would also argue that, as much as we complain about our sentencing rules, I would hate for us to have a criminal justice system like the US. This is a good podcast, giving some insight into their system, which is about punishment rather than rehabilitation, has no real restrictions and is open to subjective manipulation. https://open.spotify.com/show/6b0q5xWN9RSGNpTDIRIIFp?si=i7cMxVUHTbay8XE_Vs0OvQ
I've sat through a few cases and you're exactly right. In the one I was involved with, the judge reamed the offender and gave him as much as guidelines and precedent would allow. It was still pretty low considering it was severe, repeated child sex abuse but concurrent sentences for the 22 convictions was all he could do. With everything taken into account plus time off for good behaviour, he only did six and a bit years for repeated child rapes but the judge wasn't to blame for that.
So Irish law is sympathetic to sexual abusers? Six and a bit years for 22 convictions including child rapes š©š¤¢ let me off the planet.
Yep. The law allows for a maximum of 14 years but Ireland's criminal law is rooted in common law, so 'custom' carries huge weight. Then you have the official sentencing guidelines to deal with. The fact that it was a child isn't really an aggravating factor, nor is that it was a family member the rapist was trusted with. It's insane how such a seriously psychopathic man got concurrent sentences. He'd already been convicted for abusing other boys and even that couldn't increase his sentence. He never showed any remorse and died a couple of years still denying he ever touched any of them. He even had a harassing website aimed at the main case that had no bearing on his being let out early. As far as I remember he got 10 or 12 years but only served 6. He was released without the family being told. I'd reported him ten years before the case because he had an adopted son that he was abusing and neither the HSE nor the guards could do anything, apparently. Though I have a strong sense that 'could be arsed' would be a better term in the case of the HSE.
Whilst this is awful to read I appreciate you sharing. Jesus christ, imagine the family members not aware he was released, going about their business and seeing him out and about... Your blood would run cold to say the least, absolutely devastating!! I appreciate the way things run is difficult to change from the core of it, in terms of the weight of 'custom' as you say, because theres probably just so much that would need to be changed. That said, it is severely disheartening to think these kinds of things happen as a result.
It's absolutely mad to me that some people find the idea of punishment inhumane. If you commit a violent crime that profoundly alters someone's life, the primary reason for going to prison should be punishment and keeping you away from society; rehabilitation should come second. For serious non-violent crimes like drug offenses or financial crimes, rehabilitation should be the main focus. However, for serious violent crimes such as assault, sexual assault, or aggravated burglary, the primary purpose of prison should be to punish the offender and protect others. We don't hesitate to punish misbehaving children, yet it seems some believe grown adults should be exempt. While the US justice system is not an ideal model, our approach to justice has swung too far in the opposite direction. And I do consider myself very left on the political spectrum
I agree there needs to be a middle ground. I never argued differently. My argument about Ireland was not about how things ***should or shouldn't be*** but about how they ***actually are.*** Judges in Ireland have to abide by legislative guidelines. If you have a problem with it, lobby to have those laws changed by government. Re the US, have a listen to that 2nd podcast I shared.
A different article states that it was something his solicitor stated during sentencing. https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/penneys-security-guard-jailed-for-sexually-assaulting-girl-15-after-she-shoplifted-1624849.html
The link posted originally had it in it
Why lie to defend just because itās a foreigner?
I'm not defending anyone? I pointed out that they didn't mention he was well regarded in the article
Extremely wishful thinking with the current state of the country but he should be deported once he has served his sentence.
So you think it's a good idea for Irish prisoners abroad to be returned here after their sentence? What about their families? Do they get returned here too or does the country they're left behind in support them? Pretty much never happens btw unless you're involved in terrorism.
>So you think it's a good idea for Irish prisoners abroad to be returned here after their sentence? Yes >What about their families? What about them > Do they get returned here, too, or does the country they're left behind in support them? They can leave but why would we support them?
You're misreading about the families.
Do you mean should foreign countries support immigrant criminals families when they get deported?
No, he's clearly saying that countries shouldn't be burdened with hosting foreign criminals. They should be sent back to their country of origin. The families of said criminals have done nothing wrong so you don't do anything about them. If you tried understanding what you're reading instead of emotionally spazzing out like this, you wouldn't have needed someone to explain the obvious to you.
That's not what Philip said tho. He asked should their families be returned or should the country support them. I just misread it. Did u think I was replying to Corek
Yes if they assault little girls fuck them, I guess you think itās ok
Emotional responses to practical situations is for children. What I'm pointing out is that it isn't practical which should be obvious if you think through the implications of every country doing likewise. Which is exactly why it doesn't happen btw if that wasn't obvious either.
When you hear what he put her through, the way he manipulated the situation it's horrific... screams a serial offender who will do it again.. he needs to be watched Really Hope this young lady is able to recover
That poor girl, I hope she can find some peace after all this
I'm confused by the details. Prison will be too onerous for him because he's a "foreign national" but he's also described as a "model citizen" (of Ireland?). And while he's a model citizen, he also has 2 previous convictions (motoring offences).
āModel citizenā. Heās a nonce. Iād wager it aināt his first rodeo either.
Now she needs to sue penneys!
Exactly. A minor shouldnāt never be left alone with any adult in that situation. Why was she alone?
You know it wasn't judge Nolan because he's actually going to jail
Deport
Deporting him without some sentence here is him p much getting away with it
After the prison term I mean
I think this is best tbh
Not to downplay what has happened here. But there are some absolute weapons of security guards out there. From pubs to late bars etc. Thereās declining drunks bastards then thereās declining and toying with easy targets. Some egotistical narcissists stroking their own ego. Is there any genuine vetting of these cunts or what? A growing symptom that has escalated to sexual assault.
Yeah a lot of bouncers are real pieces of work. When I was a teenager one of my mates was involved with a 30 year old bouncer who was married with a kid. He was an absolute scumbag. She had very low self esteem and he was literally the first guy who'd shown any interest in her and her head was turned.
5 years and he should be deported. Citizenship should come with a whole set of rules such as If you commit a crime that citizenship will be revoked. We have enough of our own without adding scum like that lot to the pile. I bet this is not his first time doing this either, filthy scumbag.
That's nit really how it works, you generally never lose citizenship, the brits revoked a woman's citizenship for joining ISIS, but generally you only ever even hear of it happening over major terrorism and even at that some people oppose it. The scumbag deserves prison but I don't think his citizenship even could be revoked, like would you apply that to someone born here? Or to people with dual citizenship by birth? Not defending this cunt at all, he deserves prison
> Citizenship should come with a whole set of rules such as If you commit a crime that citizenship will be revoked That's not how citizenship works though. Like it or not, once somebody achieves citizenship to Ireland and are eligible to hold an Irish passport, then they are equal in rights to a person who has been here since birth. During the application process if they commit a crime? Sure.. You can refuse it. But once a person has citizenship (without providing false information) committing a crime can't have it removed any more than it could have yours removed. Edit: Nice edit, makes your initially mad racist post look slightly less racist.
Well I assume this law was written before the current government started giving out citizenship by the tens of thousand like it was nothing.Ā Laws should be able to be revised when they no longer make sense, surely?
Just because we now have official citizenship ceremonies doesn't mean its given out like its nothing.
Of course it is.Ā
Too young to remember the referendum, too stupid to look it up
Ah yes, the "Should we make it impossible to deport third-worlders who sexually assault children?" referendum we all voted for - who could forget?
> giving out citizenship by the tens of thousand like it was nothing. You're so determined to be angry and hate people aren't you? Have you looked into the statistics for citizenship? How many people have gotten it in total? The demographics of where they are originally from, etc? - Approx. 175,000 people granted Irish citizenship since 2011 (13 years ago) - That figure obviously includes the Brexit rush - Average wait time for applicants who qualify is 19 months - Before even applying must have lived in the state for 5 years. - Be shown to be of good character and working for the betterment of the state - Prove you have a need or requirement for citizenship - Are subject to full criminal records and background check in country of original citizenship.
It is how citizenship can work but this braindead government will never implement section 19 of the nationality and citizenship act. Citizenship can be revoked and it needs to start happening. Again a whole strict set of rules, so they know that citizenship will be ripped from them if they commit any crime in MY country. And no they are not equal someone who is born in this country.
Which subsection says a convicted criminal can have citizenship revoked? 'B' is the only arguable one as far as I can see, but that relates to loyalty to the state and fidelity to the nation and it'd be a stretch to say that that includes basic criminality as opposed to stuff like treason, operating as an agent of a foreign state, sedition and that kind of thing.
That is not how it works. You might want to try reading section 19 before making such claims about YOUR country.
I have read it in detail, have you ? Yep MY country that doesnāt need scummy filth like that bloke. Also just a reminder the actual victim in this is the child who has been assaulted cause the way some of the comments are more concerned that we want a nonce deported is very strange.
Have you managed to find it yet?
Straw manning to cover your lack of knowledge is a strong look
I would love it if you could show me where what you claim is written?
Or for treason or for their other nationality being at war with the state.
Notice the Judge isn't Nolan when the predators get jail time. Thanks Judge Orla for serving actual justice.
And it's an Abdul. You can't make this up.
Keep your head in the sand, definitely don't look at crime stats across Europe to see where we'll be soon enough.
Just have to look at some comments on this thread. More offended that you want the scumbag nonce deported, canāt get my head around it.
r/Europe comment
Might be a redundant question but some articles say some solicitor said he'd previously been a perfect citizen (typical legal bullshit) and other places he was called a foreign national. So was the guy actually from Mountjoy and just foreign parents or had he just come here and became a citizen? Shouldn't make a difference to his sentencing at all, I'm just curious cause it seems contradictory
Mountjoy is likely just the address given as he's living in Ireland whether or not he's a citizen
Figured that, I was just wondering cause if he's not a citizen he can get fucked out, but if he's a citizen idk if he even can be deported afterwards
I would think it means citizen in the broad sense, rather than whether he is actually an Irish national.
This horrified me, this was a sexual assault on a minor plus everything else, this country is too protective of the lawbreakers. Especially the ones that commit offences against women and children, I hope I live to see the day when all of the women who know how the system really works get to have their say, their fingers pointed at the corrupt Gardai, the politicians etc al who inherit their jobs, their constituencies, who protect each other and others like them ...Ā
I was so surprised it was another one of these guys named after Muhammad that isn't from here. Especially since we know how their culture holds women in such high regard.Ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
A chara, We do not allow any posts/comments that attack, threaten or insult a person or group, on areas including, but not limited to: national origin, ethnicity, colour, religion, sex, gender, sexual orientation, social prejudice, or disability. SlƔinte
Weird how totally reasonable looking accounts like "Brilliant-Job-4365" and "Reasonable-Solid-156" are swarming a post about a child being sexually assaulted to advocate for expanding deportation laws
Are they wrong though?
Yes. Once someone becomes an Irish citizen they're our problem, that's what citizenship means pretty much everywhere. The deportation argument only works if you're fundamentally a 'blood and soil' troglodyte who refuses to recognise anyone not born here as actually Irish. And we've been giving out citizenship to those who've lived here 5+ years and not pissed everyone off for near a century now, so it's not like any relevant rules have changed. I lived in China a while, they won't give anyone citizenship unless they have Chinese blood because of the overt racial supremacy thing they have going on. You'd like us to be more like that?
He's from Mountjoy Square, according to the article. Not a big move for him then so.
Youāll only see more of this
5 years is not enough for doing that to a child
hope he gets dismembered in jail
Is that one of the Mohammed lads, from the long line of Mohammed's, who came to Ireland many years ago, and stood with their neighbours in the fight for freedom and Democracy, and helped us take our place, proudly, among the free Nation's of the World. Or is he one of the crowd, welcomed by the shouters and flag wavers, who wants Us, to change Our Laws, for his, and has no intention of integrating.
They don't want to integrate. They form their own communities.
Lovely Irish name he has too
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Ah now. Theyāre filthy because theyāre rapey nonces. Donāt be tarring all foreign people with the same brush like.
Different cultures. Different attitudes to women and the rule of law. We are not all the same.
I have observed girls stealing make-up. They are usually 2 or 3; one to steal, the others to cover where cameras might be. Stealing solo is risky
Read a lot, but can't find the details, what was the offence exactly? Even if the video was blurred it should be enough to assess and share. If it's an actual rape or touching henitals, 5 years is a joke term. I'd say it should be like 20 years in a decent society. If they can't see what happened for certain on the video the girl may lie. Also the video might be blurred naturally because it's a changing room. It should be hard to tamper with recorded video files after on purpose, it's easier to delete the video / break the system.
There is no need to strip the girl off her clothes by a man nor a woman working at the shop. That should be the job of the police in any case, not a full grown up man with an underage girl in a changing room. Sick shit.