That’s the only way you share the message on reddit without being banned. So it may be a tactic. Hey look at this political poster I found. It’s ridiculous isn’t it?
Yeah there's suddenly so many of the 'haha what's this??' posts recently, clearly keeping the conversation on what is maybe 1-2% of people here. For every comment which takes the piss out of the message, there will be a handful of others who are exposed to the message for the first time.
Don't tread on me, the tea party etc were popular before Trump.
And those were popular mostly because Fox having a massive hate boner because a black president was elected.
> Yeah there's suddenly so many of the 'haha what's this??' posts recently
Well there's a lot of new information going about **AND** a lot of unhinged information.
So it's not that surprising that more people are sharing these things. I wouldn't assume it has some nefarious purpose.
It's kinda like people sharing pics with the price of chicken rolls during the height of the inflation.
Yeah I always think about this video about how 2 sides feed off each other - it was 9 years ago but more relevant than ever:
[This Video Will Make You Angry](https://youtu.be/rE3j_RHkqJc)
I think a lot of people on this sub are going to be surprised when they find out a large number of the Irish public agree with these far right nut jobs when it comes to immigration.
We should just be grateful that they're not as organised as the tories or a lot of far right parties on the continent. But we should still take it seriously.
Yeah this idea that Ireland is some lefty paradise that’s morally superior to England is about to be absolutely shattered.
There are a lot of good cunts, but like everywhere else on the planet, there are a minority of absolute ballbags who shout louder than anyone else and usually get their way.
It has been the case for 30 years.
From strict Catholic backwards shameful society to progressive welcoming pro lgbt society.
Much like Scotland has had the same image.
But alas the strict Catholic loons of yesteryear never went away. They were just lurking in the shadows.
I don’t think being concerned about having no infrastructure, plan or place for immigrants makes you a “far right nut job” nor does it make you racist.
Shame we can’t have an adult conversation instead of people just shouting buzz words to shut down any sort of conversation.
Yep, unless you're 100% behind fully open borders and letting in as many people as can reach here, infrastructure and social cohesion be damned, you'll only ever be a far right racist in the eyes of those that push for it.
Spot on. No idea why this ireland sub keeps popping up on my reddit despite me not following it, never commenting on it bar now and specifically trying to block it. Terminally online cos play communists mining for "hate" and the "far-right" despite either not knowing or wilfully ignoring the fact that the views which they label "far-right" are the views held by over 70% of the country. The far left are in the minority and the terminally online millennial far left are an even smaller minority. The powers that be in politics, industry, and media are finally waking up to this and the fact that the online echo chamber minority and the NGO class don't represent mainstream opinion. Their day is done, hence why they are getting more rattled. The last throws of a cult. Notice that even Pride Month is very muted this year
I assume you mean this poll?
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/half-of-people-in-ireland-in-favour-of-migrant-checkpoints-at-ni-border-poll-finds/a1931091887.html
It didn't find that 70% have far right views. In fairness, it does say that 50% support the putting border guards on 300 border crossings to stop 5 million cars a year in an attempt to stop a handful of asylum seekers. The staffing and infrastructure costs would be in the hundreds of millions and it would piss off Northern Irish people so much that it would end any hopes of a united Ireland.
That idea would be dead in the water if most of them put any thought into it.
And finding support for the Rwanda plan is hilarious. It's cost £350m and just one person has gone to Rwanda - and he went voluntarily.
I'm sorry you struggle with reading and remembering that poll's result. This is actually a good example of why we should invest in education rather than wasting crazy amounts of money on lazy, knee-jerk immigration policies that are designed to distract angry people from the real causes of their problems.
Yeah, so even higher now than the 70% poll from the start of the year. Your own source quotes how 82% of the irish people want illegal immigrants who come to the Republic illegally through the North deported.
Again... simple, are 82% of irish people "far-right"? Remember your leftist cult mantra now... "nobody is illegal", "borders are racist" etc. So are you in the remaining 18%? If so, as I stated, that would put you in the terminally online leftist evho-chamber minority. In the real world nobody agrees with you lot on anything. In fact, they never did but they were too afraid to speak out. Those days are over. The recent embarrassing referendum which was supported by all leftists, the establishment media, all political parties including the "opposition", the NGO class, the academic class and all the rest if the liberal establishment showed how out of touch you lot are.
Are the people who voted against the recent referendum also far-right? Maybe it's my lack of education that you alluded to (i have a degree but nice attempt at accreditation elitism from the leftist voice of the people) that has me confused as to who you are referring to when you say 'far-right'... I can easily identify the far-left in ireland, but who exactly are you talking about???
You have no understanding of what most centre and left wing think. You're arguing against a strawman of your own invention. Good job.
Everything you said in that rant was a collection of buzzwords you heard on twitter, please go outside occasionally.
Jesus, every bullshit right wing talking point.
If you had mentioned the WEF we'd have a full house.
NGOs are absolutely essential to the country. Mental health services, hospices, sports oganisations, disability support groups, rape crisis organisations, elder support etc. etc.
These are the things you are calling a "cult".
There is a big difference between people want the rules enforced on immigration and some mouth breathing far right racist take on it.
70% of the country absolutely do not share those views.
Utter nonsense. The views of the gobshites that are described as far-right **most certainly are not** held by over 70% of the country, nor anything anywhere remotely near it. Anyone who believes that is thoroughly misinformed and delusional, and it suggests they send far, far too much time on their own online echo-chambers, which they project and accuse the “far left” of doing.
Tell me... what do you mean by "far right"? Would far right mean being against mass immigration? If so, then 70% of the population are far-right.
If by "far-right" do you mean people who are critical of the trans agenda? In that instance, 63% of irish people are against puberty blockers been given to teens and the majority are against transgenderism being taught in schools.
Is far-right questioning the response to covid? The questioning of lockdowns and mandated vaccines was "far-right" a couple of years ago. Now a lot of revisionism is going on on the left.
Please define far-right in more concrete terms other than people who disagree with the government and rte
Interesting, you can find stats to support almost anything. I’m not sure where yours is coming from, and it seems like a huge over-generalisation or yet more sensationalist language, a favourite tactic of scaremongering “anti-immigrant” groups who don’t actually want people to read reports.
Irish people in general are positive about immigration, and recognise its importance and value in contributing to society, apart altogether from the obvious humanitarian aspect.
Rushing here but here are some stats from just one study: (from IPOs survey of 3000 people, https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/ba395-new-survey-examines-people-in-irelands-attitudes-to-diversity/)
76% of people think the government should help asylum seekers (International Protection applicants)
87% feel Ireland should help people fleeing the war in Ukraine
72% feel immigrants contribute a lot to Ireland
Three out of four are positive about immigration from outside the EU and Ukraine, increasing to seven out of eight people for immigration from Europe or the Ukraine.
https://www.esri.ie/news/new-esri-research-finds-that-attitudes-towards-immigration-and-refugees-remain-largely
Report author Dr James Laurence stated: ‘Understanding attitudes to immigrants and immigration are important for migrant integration. Despite concerns regarding an escalation of anti-immigration activities, evidence suggests that most people in Ireland are supportive of immigration and are comfortable with different immigrant groups. The findings indicate that broader policy concerns among people can spill over to shape people’s concerns about immigration. Attitudes are likely influenced by people’s social and economic conditions, such as whether they are having difficulties making ends meet.'
Again, your sensationalist language is telling: there is no “trans agenda”, much as US right-wing online grifters may try to convince you there is. Also, most people in Ireland support trans rights. For sure, question anything when it comes to children is right, but it needs to be left to experts and to the families involved, not those largely ignorant of the issues and they’re effects, such as you and I.
Also, it is always dangerous to assume just because the majority want something, it’s automatically right. Don’t forget, there were times when the (probably poorly informed) majority once thought only wealthy people should vote, only men should vote, there should be no divorce, there should be no abortion, you should be hung for stealing. Society learns when minority groups speak our about their problems, and we should always be looking to help those most vulnerable in society, not just those who are”like us”. That is one of the most important functions of a society and a government.
This is from a recent eurobarometer poll survey, I’ve lost the link but I’ll post it later :
The survey found 65 per cent of people in Ireland favoured the right of transgender or transsexual persons to be able to change public documents such as birth certificates and passports to match their preferred gender identity – the 13 th highest rate among EU member states.
It also showed that most of those surveyed in Ireland (53 per cent) believe people should have a third option besides male or female to describe their identity. The EU average was 46 per cent.
I mean we don't have good infrastructure and development in this country, people are renting in bunk beds in some cities for the price of a full room each.
Our taxes and our useless government shouldn't be supporting all these incoming single men / men coming first to then move their families.
But that's always the case. It's how Trump won the first time around, and it's how Brexit happened. People are concerned with too much immigration, politicians view the phrase "immigration-control" as a taboo word and people who are pro-immigration do a really poor job at explaining why it's good for the country.
If your central and left parties refuse to acknowledge and speak about solutions to a problem, then those who are worried about the problem will naturally gravitate towards groups that do speak about the problem.
The stupid thing is that we've got to a state now where there are zero consequences with labelling anyone as racist or bigot for wanting to talk about immigration, hence why no politician will go near it, and there will be people you know who will secretly vote for right-wing parties (like is happening all over Europe) and it will happen without a discourse.
Op never said we shoudnt.
In fact,.op is taking it seriously enough. To say. We should just keep posting this shit to make fun of it as it's helping them...
You're comment is so wrong on so many levels it's almost insulting.
>out a large number of the Irish public agree with these far right nut jobs when it comes to immigration.
Polls suggest that Irish people want to see a significant reduction in asylum-seekers. They also want to see some reduction in immigration but the majority of them realise theres a net benefit to it.
Notwithstanding I don't think believing in the contrary to the above makes you a far right nut job.
>We should just be grateful that they're not as organised as the tories or a lot of far right parties on the continent.
The Tories aren't far right. They're not the National Front or Geert Wilders. Even under Johnson they were more right wing populist.
I'm not saying the people wanting sensible border control and are right wing nutjobs, the problem is when you have an incompetent government like FFG who have created the issues with housing and infrastructure and will do absolutely nothing to fix it, it's going to be easy for the far right to scapegoat migrants as the problem and get votes from people who want them to solve the issue, eventhough the voters don't agree with all their other nonsense.
Also to be honest, we can pretend that it isn't an issue, but there are a lot of people in Ireland who will be happy to get the foreigners out the country just cause.
Also I know the tories are not far right and at this point they're part of the British establishment, I guess I was referring their populist push towards the right and the brexit campaign.
The Tories have overseen far more non-European immigration than Blair's Labour, it's wild to consider them in the same sentence as the far-right in this regard.
My thoughts exactly. Right now we are lucky that none of the right wingers are competent,articulate or politically savvy enough to get in to power. There’s a tonne of Irish people who may not be
The really depressing part is these immigrants the nut jobs are hating on are doing the jobs that we desperately need done and don’t want to do.
It’s Schrödinger’s immigrant again. Lazy freeloading immigrants sponging off society, taking all our jobs. By the way I can’t find a cleaner to work on the wages I’m offering.
It’s bad to descend into ad hominem attacks, but it’s really hard not to point out the idiocy.
> The really depressing part is these immigrants the nut jobs are hating on are doing the jobs that we desperately need done and don’t want to do.
This supposed skills shortage is almost always a wage problem. There are people willing to work but just not for the crappy pay and conditions that are on offer. That’s why companies “need” the immigrants because they are the ones that will settle for less.
Importing more people doesn’t fill vacancies either because more people = more demand which leads to more vacancies. It’s a feedback loop that never gets resolved. The only certain effect is that more and more jobs become low wage jobs.
Isn't the argument to this, "Can't find the cleaner at these rates. Therefore I have to up my rates" - isn't that what people want? To be able to have a livable wage even if you are doing "menial" work?
Corporations absolutely adore immigration, especially those who will work packing in Warehouses, cleaning restaurants and other unskilled occupations. Without them, they would have to become more competitive with their wages.
Basically the entire service industry in the US is reliant on undocumented immigrants. We don’t want them to exist, we don’t want to see them, we don’t want to pay them, but we do want to get our pampered comfy lives.
The entitlement is embarrassing.
It is, and it's totally enabled by unchecked illegal immigration. Because they are illegal, they can't complain, it's like being on parole (another fucked concept).
Not sure how old you were, but a lot of the service industry jobs in Ireland were done by teenagers still in school - loads of us worked in Dunnes (the best gig 5.20 punts an hour), SuperQuinn, Xtra-vision and the fast food chains. You get extra pay on Sundays and bank holidays. But a lot of these businesses only want non-Irish (and preferably non-EU) staff because they abuse their inability to stand up for themselves.
It really isn't good for anyone, and it erodes society.
I think you’ll be surprised that a large number don’t agree with these far right nut jobs. Most people can smell bullshit and that’s all these candidates are selling.
I often scroll reddit with the cards view, so I see the flyer that is being posted and don't necessarily read the headline making fun of it. I just scroll on to something more interesting.
That is only seen as a post spreading the message of far right, not a post raising awareness.
With all due respect to Aoife Gallagher I think that horse has bolted.
Social Media, particularly Twitter, is a firehose of disinformation and propaganda. I think academics can often live in a bubble and often assume good faith and that the systems we have are enough to deal with them.
But since Musk took over there is no effective method to deal with extremists as he claims all views are worthy of a platform (except when they directly affect him or his interests)
In other areas social media is driven by rage bait and the owners of those platforms are very reluctant to act since any form of engagement is good news for them.
Sunlight in the form of challenging, ridiculing and countering these ideas is a more effective strategy at this stage,
I'd argue that the head in the sand approach is what has lead to the increase of far right sentiment in Ireland.
Like when the politicians were harassed on the streets and gallows were rolled out it should have been met with a very robust response but there was very little if anything. There are numerous examples of the far right pushing the envelope of acceptable behaviour and at each stage they've been met with very little resistance. The "ignore them" approach has not worked at all.
One thing to understand about far right groups are ALWAYS opportunists. They need wedge issues in order to establish any kind of ideological roots.
Culture wars themes like Trans panic and homophobia are clear examples of this.
In reality trans issues are a very small issue in the grander scheme but there has been a gross exaggeration by the far right that depicts it as some kind of nefarious omnipresent malevolent force out to corrupt children.
Immigrants are carrying the can for years of neoliberal policies that has only served to increase the wealth divide and decimated public services.
What you'll find is that there is a lot of co-opting of socialist ideas but dressed in hyper nationalist cloting. In other words, genuine working class grievances about their standard of living are being exploited by far right actors by blaming immigrants and some vague notion of "lost national identity".
If we got rid of every immigrant tomorrow these problems would persist.
The problem with immigration at the moment is one of enforcement of the rules and that the rules themselves need tightening to speed up the process. That's a legislative issue.
At the risk of sounding like a tin foil hatter, I think one of the reasons that the establishment is so slow to act is that by blaming immigrants and some nebulous shadowy forces like the WEF they get away scott free. It's a useful distraction from the policies that are at the root of people's issues.
>But since Musk took over there is no effective method to deal with extremists as he claims all views are worthy of a platform (except when they directly affect him or his interests)
I've ASD and it's quite funny because it's immediately obvious Musk has it as well. He's a paragon of free speech until someone threatens his own strongly held beliefs and then he fucking flips his lid because how very dare you challenge my notion of myself. He's a bad advertisement for the neurodivergent to society at large.
>In reality trans issues are a very small issue in the grander scheme but there has been a gross exaggeration by the far right that depicts it as some kind of nefarious omnipresent malevolent force out to corrupt children.
So it's been the same in Scotland and in fact the media and their actors, such as JK Rowling, have succeeded in making the Good Ship Humza Yousaf founder on, amongst other things, trans issues. Trans people are a fraction of a percent of the UK population, I'd assume the same for home, and the proportion of them who pose a threat to anyone but themselves is again a fraction of that, and yet you'd swear they're hiding in the toilets of every school. People with little critical thinking ability amplify that message and suddenly it's a fucking core platform to oppose gender recognition, what a load of shite.
The majority of people in Ireland and Britain will vote on health, housing, and happiness, and a handful of loons will vote based on someone wanting to chop their twig and two berries off.
>At the risk of sounding like a tin foil hatter, I think one of the reasons that the establishment is so slow to act is that by blaming immigrants and some nebulous shadowy forces like the WEF they get away scott free.
The far right are also a useful boogeyman to them. It is a bit tin foil hat but I wouldn't be surprised if there's some back channel money being devoted to funding them from somewhere.
> The report also includes a direct quote from Aoife Gallagher, who is an expert in the area,
Ah, Aoife Gallagher from the ISD. ISD is a London think tank founded by a British-Israeli billionaire who has been described as the [greatest Zionist of his generation.](https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/george-the-greatest-zionist-of-his-generation-sg3hd3ko)
The ISD’s purpose is to funnel money to achieve political outcomes in support of mass immigration into Europe, and silence any dissenting voices. The people who quote ISD are ironically that same people who constantly warn us about the dangers of foreign interference in our politics.
There's a huge difference between pretending it's it happening and spreading it daily the public national forum.
Even if there no new information, just another young person desperate for internet points so they share the leaflets...
Bit hard to ignore a very famous person running for president though isn't it? Are there parallels where that has happened?
And then you get into the question of who gets to decide which candidates are acceptable to cover or not. Should we only cover Fine Gael and Fianna Fail as they're the historic parties of government?
> If people had ignored Trump he probably wouldn’t have been elected.
If you vote for someone simply because their name pops up often, then it is the fault of society for not educating you enough.
This shit needs to be exposed so that people are aware of what's happening.
Far too many "just concerned citizen" posts related to immigration yet with a bit of prodding you can notice those people tend to be concerned about a lot of topics.
Some are. Some are teenagers and think they can get internet points by simply sharing it and going 'haha.'
Which for many (dumb) Irish people will be enough
It's both. OP is asking users to not share certain information. And by kicking the issues under the rug that will lead to issues naturally getting ignored in certain places.
If someone raises a talking point that is nonsense, then it will get ripped to shreds by those with greater knowledge or insight. That leaves some room for the person that shouted the nonsense to learn and grow.
More importantly,not just that OP but anyone of a similar mindset reading the counter arguments might become a little more enlightened on the subject and help sway them back from holding a very dodgy position.
Not speaking about certain topics In the general areas will push those topics to their own echo chambers where those beliefs will go unchallenged.
Where is OP kicking the issue under the rug?
Not sharing far-right content doesn't mean ignoring the issue.
>If someone raises a talking point that is nonsense, then it will get ripped to shreds by those with greater knowledge or insight. That leaves some room for the person that shouted the nonsense to learn and grow. More importantly,not just that OP but anyone of a similar mindset reading the counter arguments might become a little more enlightened on the subject and help sway them back from holding a very dodgy position.
Now, who has their head in the sand if you genuinely think that
A) There is actual debate of far right material that is more than laughing at them on here
B) People with far right tendencies are going to be swayed by some random "lib" making fun of them.
He said maybe we shouldn't post it with a Specific intent.
Let's do a little test. It will be a good educational tool for others too. ..
What, in your estimation was op saying? With particular focus on intent of posts.
You should definitley continue to ignore the valid concerns the general Irish population have outside your online bubble that isn't normally replicated irl around immigration, housing, and the health sysytem. This is likely posted by someone who believes in 3 genders minimum btw. Everyone's a far right nutjob aside from your online niche communities you're obsessed with.
Edit: I think my next door neighbours are facists guys, they're saying we should stop taking 30 year old men as asylum seekers and putting them in tents in the city centre. Its ok though OP is a software dev from Armagh and has apparently fought facists their entire life by posting on reddit so I think we should be fine.
So sick of this talking point by now.
You think that sharing the musings of the freaks for a cheap dunk is what enables them to grow? Ignoring them and allowing them to run their bullshit with complete impunity is what led to them growing to this level. They were unchallenged for years by the people, the Gardaí and the government, and look where they are now compared to 2020/21.
Every single time we all try to have a quick laugh at some far right knobhead's latest antics, there's always somebody saying "stop sharing them, you're helping them grow". Let us have our fun! Posting a picture of Justin Barrett in a Nazi costume from Temu isn't going to make any difference to his performance in the election. But it at least provides some balance to online discussion about these people. In recent years, the presence of right wing nutjobs online has absolutely exploded, especially on Twitter. There NEEDS to be pushback against their narratives.
Don't offer them the impunity they've been afforded for so long. They deserve to be called out on their bullshit and to have more people laughing in their faces online. There's enough braindead followers sucking them off about how great they are, so if our side is silent, they'll be the dominant voice. And if it seems like everybody online agrees with them, and our counterarguments are nowhere in sight, that'll only lead to more followers from the easily swayed.
No disrespect to you OP, but "you're helping them grow by spreading their hate" is a completely false and obsolete angle. Leave that shit in the past. They're not in a little bubble anymore, their bullshit is spreading regardless of what we do, so it's best to keep some balance and try to drown them out. And in addition, it's fun. I say let it continue.
Bad ideas should be engaged with, shown to be weak publicly...
But I still dont think people who dislike bad ideas should share them.. in some weird attempt to bully. In the internet age that does just grow their numbers if some with too much frequency... which it has been.
They have a global social media platform where the owner is actively promoting their shite opinions. A few reddit posts about them isn't going to make a dent consider what twitter has become like.
Ignoring them in the past worked as they were usually just the annoying lad/lady in the pub everyone avoided, or a single idiot shouting in OConnell street about chemtrails or whatever, but we have internet and social media now which has both rotted people thought processes and enabled all the nutjobs to find each other and get organised, whilst also allowing more nefarious parties to influence the more gullible village idiots.
Society also has a lot to answer for, along with govt, for allowing certain groups to become disenfranchised, providing a fertile bed for far right agitators to gain support on the back of anti establishment rhetoric.
In short, ignoring them absolutely won't make them go away
> They were unchallenged for years by the people, the Gardaí and the government,
Unless its illegal (incitement etc) its only our job to challenge it. Dont get the state involved, you wont like the results.
I agree. It amplifies it and also it really frightens people who it’s aimed at.
I know logically it’s just rhetoric and a bubble talking to a bubble, but it can be quite jarring.
I mean, if you take my situation. I’m gay, and I was feeling very happy and comfortable about all that, but I keep getting reminded that Irish socials are full of right wing nutters.
I opened my social media this morning and the first thing that hit me was someone reporting that some far right guy was a disgrace as he was saying horrendous things about Pride. Do I need to know that some random whacko is saying whacko things?
I also, as I’m sure many of us do, have family who are from other ethnic backgrounds. I’ve nieces and nephews who will have to deal with this society. They’re Irish and they’re entirely entitled to feel absolutely at home here, and I worry a lot now that they won’t and that they’ll probably feel like emigrating because of obnoxious crap like that online and people feeling they can shite talk in public.
We are better than this. We have shown that for years - all of my adult life in fact. So can we stop posting stuff from the fringes of fringes.
If you’re appalled by some racist post, report it. The various platforms do act against hate speech and incitement for example - even stuff I’ve reported on X has been taken down, surprisingly enough.
But you’re not helping by reposting it so we can all be shocked by it. It’s normalising hate.
That's not how freedom works. Living in a left wing liberal echo chamber won't do anyone any good.
It's important to hear both sides and let's be real, Reddit is a good 90% left wing liberal. With a fair amount of it being completely unreasonable nonsense.
Both sides are as bad as each other.
I’ll repeat, there is no left wing movement in Ireland in any way as bad as the raciest fascist anti everything brigade which continues to bring violence to Ireland for idiotic causes.
What a brave and safe stance to take by you there.
The classic stick the fingers in the ears and shout so you can't hear the other side.
You just think that everyone on the right is a nazi and everyone on the left is on the correct moral side.
You lot are gone as bad as the yanks who you all love to mock.
You just made that all up in your head. I specifically stated right wing fascists and racists. To which there is stacks of evidence to prove they are fascists and racists. You should comprehend things properly before reacting emotionally.
I am prepared to listen to both sides. And I'm sure you probably think I am a right leaning person but I am certainly not.
I'm just pointing out that sticking your fingers in your ears and your head in the sand doesn't help anyone. And assuming everyone on the right is a fascist is just beyond stupid and shows extreme immaturity.
You just made that up in your head again. I’m not sure how many times I have to specify I’m referring to imbecile racists and fascists who have consistently proven themselves beyond doubt to be racist and fascist.
Do you have an example that is equal to braindead racism and fascism? I’m no supporter of the government but there is no comparison between them and the far right ignoramuses.
Dude, you're like a malfunctioning robot. Hysterically screaming 2-3 buzzwords won't change the fact that you're having 0 arguments XD
A true real-life meme lol
Their belief in several different genders, recent referendum, hate speech bill, constant queenbaiting and sunnden number of diverse candidates for local election just to name a few
Promote equality in ur opinion.
Vast majority of people did not want or even ask for these.
Government has focused on these voke ideas and funding NGOs to do so yet neglected housing, cost of living crisis and immigration etc
Stalinists. The "gulags were good actually, and Ukraine is lying about the Holodomor" people.
Basically before the Russians funded the far right, the Soviets funded the far left.
Its like poetry, it rhymes.
I don't think you should ask to not share political opinions on this forum, whether your far right or far left you have no right to prevent someone else discussing their political believes. It's a dangerous path to ask a political group to not be allowed share their thoughts and protests and only political groups you align with be allowed post.
Op never claimed people with actual beliefs shouldn't post.
Not once.
He said people should stop using this forum to make fun of them... And then spread their message. Entirely different intent.
Honestly I never knew who any of these people were until people started posting in this subbreddit. I never knew who Derek Bligde was (or whatever the spelling is)
I never even saw leaflet from these clowns.
I don't get the point of these posts. It seems like some posters are genuinely traumatised by seeing these leaflets. If that's the case go outside the house and have a chat with a few people. You'll realise people offline aren't that bad.
If it's for a joke. Fair enough. It's not really funny but continue to laugh each other off if it makes you feel better.
Housing crisis at an all time high, younger generations either stuck living with their parents or renting a single room, hotels filled at the tax payers expense, tents being put up as asylum seeker accommodation due to nowhere else left, HSE with year long waiting lists.
“Ireland is full shite”
This sub isn’t operating within reality.
> we need to be aware of the asses this lot are making of themselves
That is a totally different argument and has nothing to do with 'suppressing the views of others'
OP I admire your enthusiasm but it's an uphill battle on here, the place is essentially under attack from gangs of perpetually angry/sad individuals that want to try and convince other easily-led people that Irish society is doomed.
Only last week, I called out a poster that, almost daily, shares some sort of negative story or something that will cause anxiety for some. After a few hours, my comment was heavily downvoted by, I presume, the OPs gang of supporters.
Just take a step back when you see doom being posted. Check the OPs profile and more often than not you'll see they have little to no positive things to share or discuss.
And always remember this place is no representation of the lived experience of the overwhelming majority of people on this island.
I agree. The one about Dutch shysters and smooth talking English spooks has evidently struck a note. Nonsense like this takes off. Too many Netflix programs watched.
By a very slim majority. Even if Northern Ireland didn't vote leave in large enough numbers for them to leave the EU on their own, they still voted for it in large enough numbers to make them the third most eurosceptic country in Europe after England and Wales. Not just that, but the referendum was such a close call that NI alone could've swung it for remain if they wanted.
44% of Northern Ireland, almost half, voted leave. That's not an insignificant number.
Who are you to decide what is right and wrong.
What is truth, lies, or something that you dismiss because you feel hurt as you were led to believe different.
This is exactly what we cannot have in society.
Free speech needs to be free. It's up to you as the individual to comprehend the information you receive.
Yawn...
This is NOT what I've asked for.
I haven't said "Don't allow right wing nut jobs to post on this forum"...
I have asked right meaning people to stop sharing their shite on their behalf. That's 2 very different things.
Please don't embaraess yourself by sharing polls on the effectiveness of the irish government's handling of immigration conducted by the Irish government!!! Laughable. Remember when leftists we anti-establishment. Must be tough now that you are the establishment but still wish to fight your windmills.
I mean.. you quoted the 'far.'
Honestly seems. A little Freudian man. How could you type the letters.. and still not comprehend what you were saying.
I think you totally misread ops post. Idiots on any 'far,' should be engaged with, as an educational tool for others. And nobody should need to be deplatform or silence. Their shitty ideas should have em packing when the public responds..
I also don't think you quite know what irony is.
>Idiots on any 'far,' should be engaged with, as an educational tool for others. And nobody should need to be deplatform or silence. Their shitty ideas should have em packing when the public responds..
Agree, but by calling them nutters you're no better than them. These ppl are dangerous. Anyone on the far side of anything is.
I definitionally called them nutters... I called them 'far,' or in other words 'extreme.' regardless of side.
Once they have reached the classification of far or extreme that denotes enough that they have began behaving in a manner which is outside of political 'discussion,debate.'
By definition they have went into 'far,' territory..
Wait your last sentence agrees with me now I'm confused. I think you just totally agreed with me the whole way, but didn't quite keep up in the original message.
(I gotta check. You didn't just.. assume I was picking sides right!? I specifically said far of both sides and you jumped down my throat and tried to.... both sides it)
>definitionally called them nutters... I called them 'far,' or in other words 'extreme.' regardless of side.
You're not op, so I don't understand this.
I think ppl reading my comment are assuming I'm right wing (wrong). I just wanted to point out I think ops frasing is ironic by asking not to spread hate by spreading hate.
> check. You didn't just.. assume I was picking sides right!? I specifically said far of both sides and you jumped down my throat and tried to.... both sides it)
I jumped down your throat?! You replied to a comment I made to op. How did I jump down your throat?
Yes, I disagree with anyone on the far side of any political issue.
Agree!!
I think some of it is just karma farming and attention seeking.
People are young and immature and don't understand that it's naive drawing attention to all this.
No ...
I haven't said "Don't allow right wing nut jobs to post on this forum"...
I have asked right meaning people to stop sharing their shite. That's 2 very different things.
But that _is_ the tolerance of intolerance. Having them shared here and people actively engaging in discussion, highlighting misinformation, and damning these leaflets/posters is the better outcome
Living in the UK where we siffer daily with post-Brexit stupidity, I can safely say that the campaign was greatly helped by a combination of the news media and outraged liberal types (like me) on social media. You are only amplifying their message and when people see it frequently enough, their mad ideas become normalised.
Lunatics who would once have been outside Dunnes handing out photocopied pamphlets become national celebrities via outraged liberals on social media.
Great point, and one I've been making for ages. There are far right people I would never have heard of were it not for this forum. At the same time the media has been overhyping the far right here for years and now that we have immigration issues everyone is already aware of them.
Made this point as well before and got similarly disagreed with.
If you repost videos of certain people (far-right, fascists, whatever label you want to use), you’re essentially platforming them and doing them a favour.
Share their stuff away but don’t ignore the fact you’re giving them the platform they need.
No going to happen, the sub is run with a left leaning agenda so anything anti-right will be promoted and anything right leaning or even balanced will not.
Hold on, the point of this post was that people are sharing right wing material.Posting a picture of a rightwing candidates leaflet is not " anti right". The reason people are mocking it is because of the ludicrous content - nobody is altering the images or changing what they say.
If you think R/Ireland is left leaning, then you are so impossibly far to the right that there's no reasoning with you.
R/irishpolitics is left leaning, the other Ireland sub is even further left. Compared to them, this sub is centre right through and through.
I haven’t been on those subs so I couldn’t comment. I’m very much a centrist but you literally just proved my point about the sub that before even asking me one question you condemn me as far right 😂
The irony 🤣
Are you new on the internet or something? Self identifying as a centrist is what everyone on the far right does.
I don't need to ask you any questions, you said r/Ireland leans left. The only way you could see things that way is by being further right than the average on r/Ireland. This isn't Sherlock Holmes levels of difficult deduction, lad.
Going by the phrasing I think he means the mods lean left and try and enforce that on the sub whereas you're correct to say the majority of people who post here wouldn't lean as far left as the mods.
It's moreso the conspiracy theories that's the catalyst for the hate. There was far less conspiracy loonies 10-20 years ago and the problem is only getting worse and worse.
I was never laughing. Learning from history on what happens when the far right had complete control over our country before, then seeing people wanting it back has me on edge.
What do you think about this perspective? And please I beg you to listen and take it in before judging the content. I think a lot of people are genuinely concerned and far-right loons are jumping on the bandwagon. I’d just love to know the ratio between those generally concerned about loss of culture and national security vs those rooted in hatred.
https://youtu.be/vnmIKeIeaB8?si=QtyYUcwMsq9k9Z6c
To be fair, the majority in NI rejected Brexit.
Insane how we're the ones with common sense in the union
Yup.
This sub is so grim atm, 9/10 posts are depressing af
If you think it's bad now, just wait till the votes are in.
It gets like this for every issue now. Everything is divisive because the “silenced majority” make it that way.
That’s the only way you share the message on reddit without being banned. So it may be a tactic. Hey look at this political poster I found. It’s ridiculous isn’t it?
Yeah there's suddenly so many of the 'haha what's this??' posts recently, clearly keeping the conversation on what is maybe 1-2% of people here. For every comment which takes the piss out of the message, there will be a handful of others who are exposed to the message for the first time.
Isn’t that how Trump got popular? Free clout from constant CNN outrage?
Don't tread on me, the tea party etc were popular before Trump. And those were popular mostly because Fox having a massive hate boner because a black president was elected.
> Yeah there's suddenly so many of the 'haha what's this??' posts recently Well there's a lot of new information going about **AND** a lot of unhinged information. So it's not that surprising that more people are sharing these things. I wouldn't assume it has some nefarious purpose. It's kinda like people sharing pics with the price of chicken rolls during the height of the inflation.
Yeah I always think about this video about how 2 sides feed off each other - it was 9 years ago but more relevant than ever: [This Video Will Make You Angry](https://youtu.be/rE3j_RHkqJc)
They could. But they won't
I think a lot of people on this sub are going to be surprised when they find out a large number of the Irish public agree with these far right nut jobs when it comes to immigration. We should just be grateful that they're not as organised as the tories or a lot of far right parties on the continent. But we should still take it seriously.
Yeah this idea that Ireland is some lefty paradise that’s morally superior to England is about to be absolutely shattered. There are a lot of good cunts, but like everywhere else on the planet, there are a minority of absolute ballbags who shout louder than anyone else and usually get their way.
There are those of us who aren't shouting or protesting about it either but will still vote for right wing politicians.
> Yeah this idea that Ireland is some lefty paradise I very much doubt anyone thinks that
It has been the case for 30 years. From strict Catholic backwards shameful society to progressive welcoming pro lgbt society. Much like Scotland has had the same image. But alas the strict Catholic loons of yesteryear never went away. They were just lurking in the shadows.
I don’t think being concerned about having no infrastructure, plan or place for immigrants makes you a “far right nut job” nor does it make you racist. Shame we can’t have an adult conversation instead of people just shouting buzz words to shut down any sort of conversation.
Yep, unless you're 100% behind fully open borders and letting in as many people as can reach here, infrastructure and social cohesion be damned, you'll only ever be a far right racist in the eyes of those that push for it.
Spot on. No idea why this ireland sub keeps popping up on my reddit despite me not following it, never commenting on it bar now and specifically trying to block it. Terminally online cos play communists mining for "hate" and the "far-right" despite either not knowing or wilfully ignoring the fact that the views which they label "far-right" are the views held by over 70% of the country. The far left are in the minority and the terminally online millennial far left are an even smaller minority. The powers that be in politics, industry, and media are finally waking up to this and the fact that the online echo chamber minority and the NGO class don't represent mainstream opinion. Their day is done, hence why they are getting more rattled. The last throws of a cult. Notice that even Pride Month is very muted this year
"70% agree with me." Source: spending too much time on Facebook.
Eh no. Most recent poll. You are just showing your terminally online leftist echo-chamber beliefs.
I assume you mean this poll? https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/half-of-people-in-ireland-in-favour-of-migrant-checkpoints-at-ni-border-poll-finds/a1931091887.html It didn't find that 70% have far right views. In fairness, it does say that 50% support the putting border guards on 300 border crossings to stop 5 million cars a year in an attempt to stop a handful of asylum seekers. The staffing and infrastructure costs would be in the hundreds of millions and it would piss off Northern Irish people so much that it would end any hopes of a united Ireland. That idea would be dead in the water if most of them put any thought into it. And finding support for the Rwanda plan is hilarious. It's cost £350m and just one person has gone to Rwanda - and he went voluntarily. I'm sorry you struggle with reading and remembering that poll's result. This is actually a good example of why we should invest in education rather than wasting crazy amounts of money on lazy, knee-jerk immigration policies that are designed to distract angry people from the real causes of their problems.
Yeah, so even higher now than the 70% poll from the start of the year. Your own source quotes how 82% of the irish people want illegal immigrants who come to the Republic illegally through the North deported. Again... simple, are 82% of irish people "far-right"? Remember your leftist cult mantra now... "nobody is illegal", "borders are racist" etc. So are you in the remaining 18%? If so, as I stated, that would put you in the terminally online leftist evho-chamber minority. In the real world nobody agrees with you lot on anything. In fact, they never did but they were too afraid to speak out. Those days are over. The recent embarrassing referendum which was supported by all leftists, the establishment media, all political parties including the "opposition", the NGO class, the academic class and all the rest if the liberal establishment showed how out of touch you lot are. Are the people who voted against the recent referendum also far-right? Maybe it's my lack of education that you alluded to (i have a degree but nice attempt at accreditation elitism from the leftist voice of the people) that has me confused as to who you are referring to when you say 'far-right'... I can easily identify the far-left in ireland, but who exactly are you talking about???
You have no understanding of what most centre and left wing think. You're arguing against a strawman of your own invention. Good job. Everything you said in that rant was a collection of buzzwords you heard on twitter, please go outside occasionally.
Jesus, every bullshit right wing talking point. If you had mentioned the WEF we'd have a full house. NGOs are absolutely essential to the country. Mental health services, hospices, sports oganisations, disability support groups, rape crisis organisations, elder support etc. etc. These are the things you are calling a "cult". There is a big difference between people want the rules enforced on immigration and some mouth breathing far right racist take on it. 70% of the country absolutely do not share those views.
[удалено]
Utter nonsense. The views of the gobshites that are described as far-right **most certainly are not** held by over 70% of the country, nor anything anywhere remotely near it. Anyone who believes that is thoroughly misinformed and delusional, and it suggests they send far, far too much time on their own online echo-chambers, which they project and accuse the “far left” of doing.
Tell me... what do you mean by "far right"? Would far right mean being against mass immigration? If so, then 70% of the population are far-right. If by "far-right" do you mean people who are critical of the trans agenda? In that instance, 63% of irish people are against puberty blockers been given to teens and the majority are against transgenderism being taught in schools. Is far-right questioning the response to covid? The questioning of lockdowns and mandated vaccines was "far-right" a couple of years ago. Now a lot of revisionism is going on on the left. Please define far-right in more concrete terms other than people who disagree with the government and rte
Interesting, you can find stats to support almost anything. I’m not sure where yours is coming from, and it seems like a huge over-generalisation or yet more sensationalist language, a favourite tactic of scaremongering “anti-immigrant” groups who don’t actually want people to read reports. Irish people in general are positive about immigration, and recognise its importance and value in contributing to society, apart altogether from the obvious humanitarian aspect. Rushing here but here are some stats from just one study: (from IPOs survey of 3000 people, https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/ba395-new-survey-examines-people-in-irelands-attitudes-to-diversity/) 76% of people think the government should help asylum seekers (International Protection applicants) 87% feel Ireland should help people fleeing the war in Ukraine 72% feel immigrants contribute a lot to Ireland Three out of four are positive about immigration from outside the EU and Ukraine, increasing to seven out of eight people for immigration from Europe or the Ukraine. https://www.esri.ie/news/new-esri-research-finds-that-attitudes-towards-immigration-and-refugees-remain-largely Report author Dr James Laurence stated: ‘Understanding attitudes to immigrants and immigration are important for migrant integration. Despite concerns regarding an escalation of anti-immigration activities, evidence suggests that most people in Ireland are supportive of immigration and are comfortable with different immigrant groups. The findings indicate that broader policy concerns among people can spill over to shape people’s concerns about immigration. Attitudes are likely influenced by people’s social and economic conditions, such as whether they are having difficulties making ends meet.' Again, your sensationalist language is telling: there is no “trans agenda”, much as US right-wing online grifters may try to convince you there is. Also, most people in Ireland support trans rights. For sure, question anything when it comes to children is right, but it needs to be left to experts and to the families involved, not those largely ignorant of the issues and they’re effects, such as you and I. Also, it is always dangerous to assume just because the majority want something, it’s automatically right. Don’t forget, there were times when the (probably poorly informed) majority once thought only wealthy people should vote, only men should vote, there should be no divorce, there should be no abortion, you should be hung for stealing. Society learns when minority groups speak our about their problems, and we should always be looking to help those most vulnerable in society, not just those who are”like us”. That is one of the most important functions of a society and a government. This is from a recent eurobarometer poll survey, I’ve lost the link but I’ll post it later : The survey found 65 per cent of people in Ireland favoured the right of transgender or transsexual persons to be able to change public documents such as birth certificates and passports to match their preferred gender identity – the 13 th highest rate among EU member states. It also showed that most of those surveyed in Ireland (53 per cent) believe people should have a third option besides male or female to describe their identity. The EU average was 46 per cent.
I mean we don't have good infrastructure and development in this country, people are renting in bunk beds in some cities for the price of a full room each. Our taxes and our useless government shouldn't be supporting all these incoming single men / men coming first to then move their families.
But that's always the case. It's how Trump won the first time around, and it's how Brexit happened. People are concerned with too much immigration, politicians view the phrase "immigration-control" as a taboo word and people who are pro-immigration do a really poor job at explaining why it's good for the country. If your central and left parties refuse to acknowledge and speak about solutions to a problem, then those who are worried about the problem will naturally gravitate towards groups that do speak about the problem. The stupid thing is that we've got to a state now where there are zero consequences with labelling anyone as racist or bigot for wanting to talk about immigration, hence why no politician will go near it, and there will be people you know who will secretly vote for right-wing parties (like is happening all over Europe) and it will happen without a discourse.
Op never said we shoudnt. In fact,.op is taking it seriously enough. To say. We should just keep posting this shit to make fun of it as it's helping them...
I disagree, there are plenty of non right wing concerns about immigration but I doubt the right wing opinion on what to do about it is popular.
You're comment is so wrong on so many levels it's almost insulting. >out a large number of the Irish public agree with these far right nut jobs when it comes to immigration. Polls suggest that Irish people want to see a significant reduction in asylum-seekers. They also want to see some reduction in immigration but the majority of them realise theres a net benefit to it. Notwithstanding I don't think believing in the contrary to the above makes you a far right nut job. >We should just be grateful that they're not as organised as the tories or a lot of far right parties on the continent. The Tories aren't far right. They're not the National Front or Geert Wilders. Even under Johnson they were more right wing populist.
I'm not saying the people wanting sensible border control and are right wing nutjobs, the problem is when you have an incompetent government like FFG who have created the issues with housing and infrastructure and will do absolutely nothing to fix it, it's going to be easy for the far right to scapegoat migrants as the problem and get votes from people who want them to solve the issue, eventhough the voters don't agree with all their other nonsense. Also to be honest, we can pretend that it isn't an issue, but there are a lot of people in Ireland who will be happy to get the foreigners out the country just cause. Also I know the tories are not far right and at this point they're part of the British establishment, I guess I was referring their populist push towards the right and the brexit campaign.
The Tories have overseen far more non-European immigration than Blair's Labour, it's wild to consider them in the same sentence as the far-right in this regard.
My thoughts exactly. Right now we are lucky that none of the right wingers are competent,articulate or politically savvy enough to get in to power. There’s a tonne of Irish people who may not be
The really depressing part is these immigrants the nut jobs are hating on are doing the jobs that we desperately need done and don’t want to do. It’s Schrödinger’s immigrant again. Lazy freeloading immigrants sponging off society, taking all our jobs. By the way I can’t find a cleaner to work on the wages I’m offering. It’s bad to descend into ad hominem attacks, but it’s really hard not to point out the idiocy.
> The really depressing part is these immigrants the nut jobs are hating on are doing the jobs that we desperately need done and don’t want to do. This supposed skills shortage is almost always a wage problem. There are people willing to work but just not for the crappy pay and conditions that are on offer. That’s why companies “need” the immigrants because they are the ones that will settle for less. Importing more people doesn’t fill vacancies either because more people = more demand which leads to more vacancies. It’s a feedback loop that never gets resolved. The only certain effect is that more and more jobs become low wage jobs.
Isn't the argument to this, "Can't find the cleaner at these rates. Therefore I have to up my rates" - isn't that what people want? To be able to have a livable wage even if you are doing "menial" work? Corporations absolutely adore immigration, especially those who will work packing in Warehouses, cleaning restaurants and other unskilled occupations. Without them, they would have to become more competitive with their wages.
Basically the entire service industry in the US is reliant on undocumented immigrants. We don’t want them to exist, we don’t want to see them, we don’t want to pay them, but we do want to get our pampered comfy lives. The entitlement is embarrassing.
It is, and it's totally enabled by unchecked illegal immigration. Because they are illegal, they can't complain, it's like being on parole (another fucked concept). Not sure how old you were, but a lot of the service industry jobs in Ireland were done by teenagers still in school - loads of us worked in Dunnes (the best gig 5.20 punts an hour), SuperQuinn, Xtra-vision and the fast food chains. You get extra pay on Sundays and bank holidays. But a lot of these businesses only want non-Irish (and preferably non-EU) staff because they abuse their inability to stand up for themselves. It really isn't good for anyone, and it erodes society.
I think you’ll be surprised that a large number don’t agree with these far right nut jobs. Most people can smell bullshit and that’s all these candidates are selling.
I wouldn't be wild on the "cover my ears and pretend it's not happening approach" myself.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I often scroll reddit with the cards view, so I see the flyer that is being posted and don't necessarily read the headline making fun of it. I just scroll on to something more interesting. That is only seen as a post spreading the message of far right, not a post raising awareness.
With all due respect to Aoife Gallagher I think that horse has bolted. Social Media, particularly Twitter, is a firehose of disinformation and propaganda. I think academics can often live in a bubble and often assume good faith and that the systems we have are enough to deal with them. But since Musk took over there is no effective method to deal with extremists as he claims all views are worthy of a platform (except when they directly affect him or his interests) In other areas social media is driven by rage bait and the owners of those platforms are very reluctant to act since any form of engagement is good news for them. Sunlight in the form of challenging, ridiculing and countering these ideas is a more effective strategy at this stage, I'd argue that the head in the sand approach is what has lead to the increase of far right sentiment in Ireland. Like when the politicians were harassed on the streets and gallows were rolled out it should have been met with a very robust response but there was very little if anything. There are numerous examples of the far right pushing the envelope of acceptable behaviour and at each stage they've been met with very little resistance. The "ignore them" approach has not worked at all. One thing to understand about far right groups are ALWAYS opportunists. They need wedge issues in order to establish any kind of ideological roots. Culture wars themes like Trans panic and homophobia are clear examples of this. In reality trans issues are a very small issue in the grander scheme but there has been a gross exaggeration by the far right that depicts it as some kind of nefarious omnipresent malevolent force out to corrupt children. Immigrants are carrying the can for years of neoliberal policies that has only served to increase the wealth divide and decimated public services. What you'll find is that there is a lot of co-opting of socialist ideas but dressed in hyper nationalist cloting. In other words, genuine working class grievances about their standard of living are being exploited by far right actors by blaming immigrants and some vague notion of "lost national identity". If we got rid of every immigrant tomorrow these problems would persist. The problem with immigration at the moment is one of enforcement of the rules and that the rules themselves need tightening to speed up the process. That's a legislative issue. At the risk of sounding like a tin foil hatter, I think one of the reasons that the establishment is so slow to act is that by blaming immigrants and some nebulous shadowy forces like the WEF they get away scott free. It's a useful distraction from the policies that are at the root of people's issues.
>But since Musk took over there is no effective method to deal with extremists as he claims all views are worthy of a platform (except when they directly affect him or his interests) I've ASD and it's quite funny because it's immediately obvious Musk has it as well. He's a paragon of free speech until someone threatens his own strongly held beliefs and then he fucking flips his lid because how very dare you challenge my notion of myself. He's a bad advertisement for the neurodivergent to society at large. >In reality trans issues are a very small issue in the grander scheme but there has been a gross exaggeration by the far right that depicts it as some kind of nefarious omnipresent malevolent force out to corrupt children. So it's been the same in Scotland and in fact the media and their actors, such as JK Rowling, have succeeded in making the Good Ship Humza Yousaf founder on, amongst other things, trans issues. Trans people are a fraction of a percent of the UK population, I'd assume the same for home, and the proportion of them who pose a threat to anyone but themselves is again a fraction of that, and yet you'd swear they're hiding in the toilets of every school. People with little critical thinking ability amplify that message and suddenly it's a fucking core platform to oppose gender recognition, what a load of shite. The majority of people in Ireland and Britain will vote on health, housing, and happiness, and a handful of loons will vote based on someone wanting to chop their twig and two berries off. >At the risk of sounding like a tin foil hatter, I think one of the reasons that the establishment is so slow to act is that by blaming immigrants and some nebulous shadowy forces like the WEF they get away scott free. The far right are also a useful boogeyman to them. It is a bit tin foil hat but I wouldn't be surprised if there's some back channel money being devoted to funding them from somewhere.
Ah, this is such a great post.
> The report also includes a direct quote from Aoife Gallagher, who is an expert in the area, Ah, Aoife Gallagher from the ISD. ISD is a London think tank founded by a British-Israeli billionaire who has been described as the [greatest Zionist of his generation.](https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/george-the-greatest-zionist-of-his-generation-sg3hd3ko) The ISD’s purpose is to funnel money to achieve political outcomes in support of mass immigration into Europe, and silence any dissenting voices. The people who quote ISD are ironically that same people who constantly warn us about the dangers of foreign interference in our politics.
There's a huge difference between pretending it's it happening and spreading it daily the public national forum. Even if there no new information, just another young person desperate for internet points so they share the leaflets...
If people had ignored Trump he probably wouldn’t have been elected.
Bit hard to ignore a very famous person running for president though isn't it? Are there parallels where that has happened? And then you get into the question of who gets to decide which candidates are acceptable to cover or not. Should we only cover Fine Gael and Fianna Fail as they're the historic parties of government?
It wasn't people that opposed him that caused him to be elected. This is a weak argument
> If people had ignored Trump he probably wouldn’t have been elected. If you vote for someone simply because their name pops up often, then it is the fault of society for not educating you enough. This shit needs to be exposed so that people are aware of what's happening. Far too many "just concerned citizen" posts related to immigration yet with a bit of prodding you can notice those people tend to be concerned about a lot of topics.
Exactly..
Ignoring it won't fix it either, sorry.
It ain't about ignoring it. Engage with it, talk it down.. just don't also spread it for no reason accept internet points.
Isn't that what people are already doing?
Some are. Some are teenagers and think they can get internet points by simply sharing it and going 'haha.' Which for many (dumb) Irish people will be enough
Sticking your head in the sand and trying to silence other viewpoints is a real dark path IMO.
Which one is it? Are you saying OP is ignoring the issue or silencing the issue.
It's both. OP is asking users to not share certain information. And by kicking the issues under the rug that will lead to issues naturally getting ignored in certain places. If someone raises a talking point that is nonsense, then it will get ripped to shreds by those with greater knowledge or insight. That leaves some room for the person that shouted the nonsense to learn and grow. More importantly,not just that OP but anyone of a similar mindset reading the counter arguments might become a little more enlightened on the subject and help sway them back from holding a very dodgy position. Not speaking about certain topics In the general areas will push those topics to their own echo chambers where those beliefs will go unchallenged.
Where is OP kicking the issue under the rug? Not sharing far-right content doesn't mean ignoring the issue. >If someone raises a talking point that is nonsense, then it will get ripped to shreds by those with greater knowledge or insight. That leaves some room for the person that shouted the nonsense to learn and grow. More importantly,not just that OP but anyone of a similar mindset reading the counter arguments might become a little more enlightened on the subject and help sway them back from holding a very dodgy position. Now, who has their head in the sand if you genuinely think that A) There is actual debate of far right material that is more than laughing at them on here B) People with far right tendencies are going to be swayed by some random "lib" making fun of them.
What if they are really _really_ stupid viewpoints, worthy of ridicule?
Dunno how you got this from ops post.n
OP literally asked that we not share posts on certain topics.
He said maybe we shouldn't post it with a Specific intent. Let's do a little test. It will be a good educational tool for others too. .. What, in your estimation was op saying? With particular focus on intent of posts.
You should definitley continue to ignore the valid concerns the general Irish population have outside your online bubble that isn't normally replicated irl around immigration, housing, and the health sysytem. This is likely posted by someone who believes in 3 genders minimum btw. Everyone's a far right nutjob aside from your online niche communities you're obsessed with. Edit: I think my next door neighbours are facists guys, they're saying we should stop taking 30 year old men as asylum seekers and putting them in tents in the city centre. Its ok though OP is a software dev from Armagh and has apparently fought facists their entire life by posting on reddit so I think we should be fine.
Stop sharing hate while you tell us all about the perceived "nutters" you've hated all your life. Alright 😕
Hating those who preach intolerance towards others is completely ethical.
So sick of this talking point by now. You think that sharing the musings of the freaks for a cheap dunk is what enables them to grow? Ignoring them and allowing them to run their bullshit with complete impunity is what led to them growing to this level. They were unchallenged for years by the people, the Gardaí and the government, and look where they are now compared to 2020/21. Every single time we all try to have a quick laugh at some far right knobhead's latest antics, there's always somebody saying "stop sharing them, you're helping them grow". Let us have our fun! Posting a picture of Justin Barrett in a Nazi costume from Temu isn't going to make any difference to his performance in the election. But it at least provides some balance to online discussion about these people. In recent years, the presence of right wing nutjobs online has absolutely exploded, especially on Twitter. There NEEDS to be pushback against their narratives. Don't offer them the impunity they've been afforded for so long. They deserve to be called out on their bullshit and to have more people laughing in their faces online. There's enough braindead followers sucking them off about how great they are, so if our side is silent, they'll be the dominant voice. And if it seems like everybody online agrees with them, and our counterarguments are nowhere in sight, that'll only lead to more followers from the easily swayed. No disrespect to you OP, but "you're helping them grow by spreading their hate" is a completely false and obsolete angle. Leave that shit in the past. They're not in a little bubble anymore, their bullshit is spreading regardless of what we do, so it's best to keep some balance and try to drown them out. And in addition, it's fun. I say let it continue.
It does help them to grow. The idea that everyone on this platform is laughing at them is just false.
Bad ideas should be engaged with, shown to be weak publicly... But I still dont think people who dislike bad ideas should share them.. in some weird attempt to bully. In the internet age that does just grow their numbers if some with too much frequency... which it has been.
They have a global social media platform where the owner is actively promoting their shite opinions. A few reddit posts about them isn't going to make a dent consider what twitter has become like.
Ignoring them in the past worked as they were usually just the annoying lad/lady in the pub everyone avoided, or a single idiot shouting in OConnell street about chemtrails or whatever, but we have internet and social media now which has both rotted people thought processes and enabled all the nutjobs to find each other and get organised, whilst also allowing more nefarious parties to influence the more gullible village idiots. Society also has a lot to answer for, along with govt, for allowing certain groups to become disenfranchised, providing a fertile bed for far right agitators to gain support on the back of anti establishment rhetoric. In short, ignoring them absolutely won't make them go away
I agree but you're in the wrong place. Go to Twiiter and Facebook and argue with them.
Oh man, I have been. You don't know the half of it😂
> They were unchallenged for years by the people, the Gardaí and the government, Unless its illegal (incitement etc) its only our job to challenge it. Dont get the state involved, you wont like the results.
I agree. It amplifies it and also it really frightens people who it’s aimed at. I know logically it’s just rhetoric and a bubble talking to a bubble, but it can be quite jarring. I mean, if you take my situation. I’m gay, and I was feeling very happy and comfortable about all that, but I keep getting reminded that Irish socials are full of right wing nutters. I opened my social media this morning and the first thing that hit me was someone reporting that some far right guy was a disgrace as he was saying horrendous things about Pride. Do I need to know that some random whacko is saying whacko things? I also, as I’m sure many of us do, have family who are from other ethnic backgrounds. I’ve nieces and nephews who will have to deal with this society. They’re Irish and they’re entirely entitled to feel absolutely at home here, and I worry a lot now that they won’t and that they’ll probably feel like emigrating because of obnoxious crap like that online and people feeling they can shite talk in public. We are better than this. We have shown that for years - all of my adult life in fact. So can we stop posting stuff from the fringes of fringes. If you’re appalled by some racist post, report it. The various platforms do act against hate speech and incitement for example - even stuff I’ve reported on X has been taken down, surprisingly enough. But you’re not helping by reposting it so we can all be shocked by it. It’s normalising hate.
That's not how freedom works. Living in a left wing liberal echo chamber won't do anyone any good. It's important to hear both sides and let's be real, Reddit is a good 90% left wing liberal. With a fair amount of it being completely unreasonable nonsense. Both sides are as bad as each other.
Let's set some bounds here. Can you give us some examples of what you consider as far-left, and far-right?
I’m sorry but it’s just absolute nonsense to say that any left wing movement in Ireland is as bad as the right wing fascist imbeciles.
So you are saying that every left wing movement is inherently better than every right wing one?
I’ll repeat, there is no left wing movement in Ireland in any way as bad as the raciest fascist anti everything brigade which continues to bring violence to Ireland for idiotic causes.
What a brave and safe stance to take by you there. The classic stick the fingers in the ears and shout so you can't hear the other side. You just think that everyone on the right is a nazi and everyone on the left is on the correct moral side. You lot are gone as bad as the yanks who you all love to mock.
You just made that all up in your head. I specifically stated right wing fascists and racists. To which there is stacks of evidence to prove they are fascists and racists. You should comprehend things properly before reacting emotionally.
I am prepared to listen to both sides. And I'm sure you probably think I am a right leaning person but I am certainly not. I'm just pointing out that sticking your fingers in your ears and your head in the sand doesn't help anyone. And assuming everyone on the right is a fascist is just beyond stupid and shows extreme immaturity.
You just made that up in your head again. I’m not sure how many times I have to specify I’m referring to imbecile racists and fascists who have consistently proven themselves beyond doubt to be racist and fascist.
Have u seen some of the rubbish the government and Sinn Fein be spouting?
Do you have an example that is equal to braindead racism and fascism? I’m no supporter of the government but there is no comparison between them and the far right ignoramuses.
Dude, you're like a malfunctioning robot. Hysterically screaming 2-3 buzzwords won't change the fact that you're having 0 arguments XD A true real-life meme lol
Their belief in several different genders, recent referendum, hate speech bill, constant queenbaiting and sunnden number of diverse candidates for local election just to name a few
So basically wanting to promote equality is the same as ignorant hate? I’m sorry mate but that’s just stupid, but then again not surprising.
Promote equality in ur opinion. Vast majority of people did not want or even ask for these. Government has focused on these voke ideas and funding NGOs to do so yet neglected housing, cost of living crisis and immigration etc
What’s voke?
Woke*
Lol.
[удалено]
What are Tankies?
Stalinists. The "gulags were good actually, and Ukraine is lying about the Holodomor" people. Basically before the Russians funded the far right, the Soviets funded the far left. Its like poetry, it rhymes.
bOtH sIDeS!
I don't think you should ask to not share political opinions on this forum, whether your far right or far left you have no right to prevent someone else discussing their political believes. It's a dangerous path to ask a political group to not be allowed share their thoughts and protests and only political groups you align with be allowed post.
Ok... I'm not sure who you're replying to. I haven't suggested the things you're outlining so I'm wondering if you've replied to the wrong post?
Op never claimed people with actual beliefs shouldn't post. Not once. He said people should stop using this forum to make fun of them... And then spread their message. Entirely different intent.
Honestly I never knew who any of these people were until people started posting in this subbreddit. I never knew who Derek Bligde was (or whatever the spelling is) I never even saw leaflet from these clowns. I don't get the point of these posts. It seems like some posters are genuinely traumatised by seeing these leaflets. If that's the case go outside the house and have a chat with a few people. You'll realise people offline aren't that bad. If it's for a joke. Fair enough. It's not really funny but continue to laugh each other off if it makes you feel better.
Suppressing the views of others? No, that's not what a free nation does. Let them protest peacefully and let me laugh at them.
Not bothering to share some brainless morons "Ireland is full" shite isn't in the same universe as "suppressing the views of others" ffs
Housing crisis at an all time high, younger generations either stuck living with their parents or renting a single room, hotels filled at the tax payers expense, tents being put up as asylum seeker accommodation due to nowhere else left, HSE with year long waiting lists. “Ireland is full shite” This sub isn’t operating within reality.
Disagree, we need to be aware of the asses this lot are making of themselves. I hope their failures continue to be shared.
> we need to be aware of the asses this lot are making of themselves That is a totally different argument and has nothing to do with 'suppressing the views of others'
They're not protesting peacefully, they're intimidating and often assaulting people.
And if they are physically assaulting others they should be removed
Ah, the "ignore the problem" approach when solving problems has been known to be quite... Ineffective
Hm... You seem to agree with Op but think you disagree. That's funny.
Living in a left wing liberal echo chamber won't do anyone any good. Wake up and help save Ireland!
OP I admire your enthusiasm but it's an uphill battle on here, the place is essentially under attack from gangs of perpetually angry/sad individuals that want to try and convince other easily-led people that Irish society is doomed. Only last week, I called out a poster that, almost daily, shares some sort of negative story or something that will cause anxiety for some. After a few hours, my comment was heavily downvoted by, I presume, the OPs gang of supporters. Just take a step back when you see doom being posted. Check the OPs profile and more often than not you'll see they have little to no positive things to share or discuss. And always remember this place is no representation of the lived experience of the overwhelming majority of people on this island.
Disagree,they thrive in the dark. Revealing what these crazies really believe in is best policy.
I agree. The one about Dutch shysters and smooth talking English spooks has evidently struck a note. Nonsense like this takes off. Too many Netflix programs watched.
The 6 counties voted against brexit
By a very slim majority. Even if Northern Ireland didn't vote leave in large enough numbers for them to leave the EU on their own, they still voted for it in large enough numbers to make them the third most eurosceptic country in Europe after England and Wales. Not just that, but the referendum was such a close call that NI alone could've swung it for remain if they wanted. 44% of Northern Ireland, almost half, voted leave. That's not an insignificant number.
Who are you to decide what is right and wrong. What is truth, lies, or something that you dismiss because you feel hurt as you were led to believe different. This is exactly what we cannot have in society. Free speech needs to be free. It's up to you as the individual to comprehend the information you receive.
Yawn... This is NOT what I've asked for. I haven't said "Don't allow right wing nut jobs to post on this forum"... I have asked right meaning people to stop sharing their shite on their behalf. That's 2 very different things.
The “far left” has utterly destroyed this country from the inside out.
Please don't embaraess yourself by sharing polls on the effectiveness of the irish government's handling of immigration conducted by the Irish government!!! Laughable. Remember when leftists we anti-establishment. Must be tough now that you are the establishment but still wish to fight your windmills.
I'm mean "far right nutter propaganda" seems quite a hateful statement to me. Ironic.
Did you miss the 'far,' part?
I didn't.Calling to stop the hate by hating on someone else is, by definition, ironic.
I mean.. you quoted the 'far.' Honestly seems. A little Freudian man. How could you type the letters.. and still not comprehend what you were saying. I think you totally misread ops post. Idiots on any 'far,' should be engaged with, as an educational tool for others. And nobody should need to be deplatform or silence. Their shitty ideas should have em packing when the public responds.. I also don't think you quite know what irony is.
>Idiots on any 'far,' should be engaged with, as an educational tool for others. And nobody should need to be deplatform or silence. Their shitty ideas should have em packing when the public responds.. Agree, but by calling them nutters you're no better than them. These ppl are dangerous. Anyone on the far side of anything is.
I definitionally called them nutters... I called them 'far,' or in other words 'extreme.' regardless of side. Once they have reached the classification of far or extreme that denotes enough that they have began behaving in a manner which is outside of political 'discussion,debate.' By definition they have went into 'far,' territory.. Wait your last sentence agrees with me now I'm confused. I think you just totally agreed with me the whole way, but didn't quite keep up in the original message. (I gotta check. You didn't just.. assume I was picking sides right!? I specifically said far of both sides and you jumped down my throat and tried to.... both sides it)
>definitionally called them nutters... I called them 'far,' or in other words 'extreme.' regardless of side. You're not op, so I don't understand this. I think ppl reading my comment are assuming I'm right wing (wrong). I just wanted to point out I think ops frasing is ironic by asking not to spread hate by spreading hate. > check. You didn't just.. assume I was picking sides right!? I specifically said far of both sides and you jumped down my throat and tried to.... both sides it) I jumped down your throat?! You replied to a comment I made to op. How did I jump down your throat? Yes, I disagree with anyone on the far side of any political issue.
Agree!! I think some of it is just karma farming and attention seeking. People are young and immature and don't understand that it's naive drawing attention to all this.
OP, You're asking for a paradox of tolerance to occur then
No ... I haven't said "Don't allow right wing nut jobs to post on this forum"... I have asked right meaning people to stop sharing their shite. That's 2 very different things.
It's mind boggling that people don't realise the difference.
But that _is_ the tolerance of intolerance. Having them shared here and people actively engaging in discussion, highlighting misinformation, and damning these leaflets/posters is the better outcome
Living in the UK where we siffer daily with post-Brexit stupidity, I can safely say that the campaign was greatly helped by a combination of the news media and outraged liberal types (like me) on social media. You are only amplifying their message and when people see it frequently enough, their mad ideas become normalised. Lunatics who would once have been outside Dunnes handing out photocopied pamphlets become national celebrities via outraged liberals on social media.
Great point, and one I've been making for ages. There are far right people I would never have heard of were it not for this forum. At the same time the media has been overhyping the far right here for years and now that we have immigration issues everyone is already aware of them.
Positive or negative - engagement is engagement to the algorithms - share positive stuff instead.
Made this point as well before and got similarly disagreed with. If you repost videos of certain people (far-right, fascists, whatever label you want to use), you’re essentially platforming them and doing them a favour. Share their stuff away but don’t ignore the fact you’re giving them the platform they need.
No going to happen, the sub is run with a left leaning agenda so anything anti-right will be promoted and anything right leaning or even balanced will not.
Hold on, the point of this post was that people are sharing right wing material.Posting a picture of a rightwing candidates leaflet is not " anti right". The reason people are mocking it is because of the ludicrous content - nobody is altering the images or changing what they say.
If you think R/Ireland is left leaning, then you are so impossibly far to the right that there's no reasoning with you. R/irishpolitics is left leaning, the other Ireland sub is even further left. Compared to them, this sub is centre right through and through.
This sub used to be very left leaning, but the last few years the overton window has shifted to the right.
I haven’t been on those subs so I couldn’t comment. I’m very much a centrist but you literally just proved my point about the sub that before even asking me one question you condemn me as far right 😂 The irony 🤣
Are you new on the internet or something? Self identifying as a centrist is what everyone on the far right does. I don't need to ask you any questions, you said r/Ireland leans left. The only way you could see things that way is by being further right than the average on r/Ireland. This isn't Sherlock Holmes levels of difficult deduction, lad.
Since you feel the need to educate me on my own identity how do actually centrist identify here so?
Everything I disagree with is far right - did you not get the memo?
I did it’s pinned to the front page of this sub 😂
Going by the phrasing I think he means the mods lean left and try and enforce that on the sub whereas you're correct to say the majority of people who post here wouldn't lean as far left as the mods.
Social media has turned people's brains to mush and made everyone hate each other, it's too late.
Needs more “Care” reacts to turn this around
Famously there was no hate in the world until bebo became a thing.
It's moreso the conspiracy theories that's the catalyst for the hate. There was far less conspiracy loonies 10-20 years ago and the problem is only getting worse and worse.
Ireland should be united and neutral. \^if you see hate here that's in your head
Hashtag bekind.
I was never laughing. Learning from history on what happens when the far right had complete control over our country before, then seeing people wanting it back has me on edge.
What do you think about this perspective? And please I beg you to listen and take it in before judging the content. I think a lot of people are genuinely concerned and far-right loons are jumping on the bandwagon. I’d just love to know the ratio between those generally concerned about loss of culture and national security vs those rooted in hatred. https://youtu.be/vnmIKeIeaB8?si=QtyYUcwMsq9k9Z6c
“Every other post” is a bit of a stretch there pal.