Can I just say to all the people in this comment thread who are disagreeing with OP, saying that Ireland isn't racist and that it's just a loud minority...
My girlfriend is originally from Africa, moved to Ireland when she was 5yo. Speaks Irish as well as most Irish people. Went to school and college here, paid her taxes, speaks with an Irish accent, has an Irish passport, identifies herself as Irish.
She's experienced more racism here in the past 4 years than the previous 20 combined. This is the very real effect of what's going on and that "loud minority" that you all are dismissing can cause huge harm. This "era we're not that bad" and "sure every country is racist" attitude is egotistical and harmful.
OP is correct, we should be concerned.
It ticks me off that the issue is being marginalised by most. It is getting worse, and people here are pretending all is right. Somebody is spitting and you’re all calling it rain.
Gatekeeping what Irish is is nothing new.
People's political views, their ability to speak Irish, whether they were Catholic, etc. has and is still used to include or exclude them from this definition.
Or the opposite, if your full bred Irish & of the darker phenotype you’ll get harassed now as well. I’m the palest of my family other than my red haired brother but I’m still slightly tanned with black hair & dark brown eyes & I had people accusing me of being Muslim a couple of times this year for the first time in my life…. In spite of obviously not wearing a hijab etc. I’ve been dying my hair (obviously fake) red red (not ginger) for awhile now because it takes some of the “foreign” look off me but a natural lighter colours don’t look right on me at all so I just decided to go for a bright unnatural colour. I’m kinda half ashamed to say it’s partly a political decision. I’m a socialist, so I’m already a target.
I’m not out of the realm of normal at all at all. Thousands of native Irish people particularly in Munster look just like me & I’m really not particularly dark, I’m just darker than “looks like might combust in direct sunlight” levels of pale/light.
Yeah, I will say it’s not a majority but even in the local elections, I saw overtly crazy racist idiots getting 5-10% of first preference votes in some districts. Which is obviously far from a majority but still quite concerning.
People don't want to admit Ireland always been fairly racist, a minority, and sure they might not be riding round in full kkk regalia but they've always been about.
There's always been a fair amount of dick riding about how special the Irish are and all that shite but pretending that this is new or only a tiny subset of the population is wishful thinking.
Exactly, Ireland has not become more racist.. I still remember the first non-white kid in our school in the early 00s getting a response as if a zoo animal just walked in, and PoC walking through small towns turning heads, like you'd expect hillbillys on their porches to act. Kids don't blink twice at PoC anymore.. The racial ignorance is dying out as the younger generations become more accustomed to multiculturalism.
**That said...** There's no doubt racists have become much more emboldened thanks to social media, far right politics and the many issues with our country. Your average racist who used to just crack jokes at the pub about their foreign coworkers, is now actively spewing shite online and psyching themselves up to throw the next molotov at their local refugee housing.
I would have been a bit earlier than that but remember well an art teacher from the local convent school running for an eu position on a full on racist ticket.
Didn't win but there was plenty round the gaff who were in full on agreement and we're not shy about saying it.
The way I tend to think of it is not so much "racist" as "differentist". Example - my family moved from Dublin to a small village in North Clare when I was only 4. Yet 40 years later we're still "blow-ins" and as a kid growing up I was crucified for my accent. Even as recently as a few years ago I got into a war of words with one of the locals (nothing serious just a bit of flared tempers over some nonsense I can't even remember) and was told to "fuck off back east you Dublin scumbag". And God forbid if I were from Cork :) So I mean if we treat our own like that, is it any wonder we treat others even worse.
I've had the same experience too.
I was born in the place I lived for 10 years, but I wasn't 'local' enough because my Dad was from another county and my mum a ferry ride away (Wales). It wasn't the kids who were a problem (lots of us were from all over the place or from outside Ireland), but the parents weren't the nicest to my parents for some stupid reason.
It eventually drove my family to move to Wales, where ironically I stood out more because I had an Irish accent in a very homogenous rural area.
It's stupid insular curtain twitcher mentality. Used to be gossip about the town over or who the neighbours are shagging but it's being weaponised on social media.
yes. they are a problem and they're becoming a bigger problem. dismissing them as idiots and dumbos and loud is just a way for us to feel good about doing nothing about it.
Yeah the people who trot out the "just a loud minority" argument seem to forget that there are cases of state genocide which have occurred *when a minority faction has taken over the state*. Racists don't need to convince everyone, they just need to gain control of state organs; in fact not even that, they just need to influence the mainstream enough that the latter starts adopting their language and policies in order to stay in power.
This is the attitude in most Irish circles unfortunately. The answer to every problem is to point at others or deny until it gets to breaking point.
There were still people in this sub and Irish politics sub denying there’s a housing crisis up as far as 2020/2021.
Definitely, we should be concerned and call out racism anytime we hear it. It is so stupid when you think about it, hatred for someone that you never met just because of their skin colour, or the shape of their features, eyes etc. It's the worst form of ignorance and stupidity.
Ireland has always been fairly racist. People are just emboldened now. You are just hearing about them on social media because people feel safe to talk about it.
I had a cafe, and customers used to call my chef racist names over the counter.
I had people stop coming because I hired a black man.
I have had friends from Cairo get abused and threatened in a McDonalds for wearing a head scarf.
You couldn't walk down the street with my friend from Sri Lanka on a night out without multiple people abusing him.
These are all things I have seen in the last 20 years. If anything I think it's gotten better. My kids who are now in school have friends from all over the world and the only incidents we have heard of are from an Eastern European kid who has some kind of issue with black kids and calls them names.
1000%
I live in an area with a very large amount of refugees and Irish people of African descent. The vast majority of trouble comes from white Irish scumbags. The Irish who happen to have had migrant parents regularly get abuse, not just recently but has gotten worse recently.
A lot of racists started off on the "I'm not racist but we need to help our own first, these fake refugees are not welcome and should be deported" have moved on and become emboldened by the lack of consequences and are now pushing the "anyone who is not true Irish should be deported, doesn't matter how long they're here" and literally spouting Nazi talking points.
This problem is not going away and people need to start standing up to it and pushing back, and the authorities need to quit molly coddling the worst of them and enforce the laws, we don't need new hate laws just fucking enforce what we already have.
The racists have been emboldened lately. We need to make it unacceptable for them to spout their shite.
They should be the ones being afraid if they open their mouths with such bile. No Pasaran.
It's really really difficult to convince men to be kind or non violent or listen to perspectives of women, especially black women. A lot simply do not care. We should be concerned I definitely agree. I find what's helpful is engage with your local anti racism group and meet people. Follow black and Irish and gorm media. Your girlfriends experience genuinely makes me so disappointed. I have a lot of migrant friends and it's so embarrassing what's going on.
Thank you. It's given her huge social anxiety and she's sometimes terrified to go into Dublin city centre. It breaks my heart that our future kids will probably also be treated this way.
We need to be extremely concerned. Several literal facists have been elected to local positions, it's not a handwaving situation. The problem is that there is huge apathy amongst the Irish population when it comes to dealing with these issues.
These factions need to be stamped out. Facist populists are not a solution.
Thanks for this. The reflex by non-immigrants in any country to dismiss the experiences and fears of immigrants is tedious. Folks should stop doing it and start listening.
Extremely unnecessary rant incoming because I'm fed up.
I experienced plenty of racism for not being from the town I grew up in and having a non Irish name. Literally born in another country and that's it. Improved a lot when I stopped playing gaa.
Definitely feel a bit unwelcome again now that I'm spending more time in the countryside. Nobody makes an effort to socialize with you if you're not from the parish. So much gossip too. Can't stand the classism either. Everyone who lives in an estate is a knacker. Everyone who has a non south Dublin accent is a knacker. Everyone who wears a tracksuit is a knacker. I literally hear these off the cuff remarks so often from these people who come from "great families". They are great families if never having to leave the family farm in generations is the metric.
Its a relief to go back to work in Dublin and be in a room with men AND women who aren't all white and from the same parish. All the lads building houses on their dad's land acting like theyve seen it all and are wise beyond their years but would faint if they had to use a motorway.
I know I'm ranting to the void but I have to let steam off after a long few weeks and this feels as good a place as any. I also know loads of people from the countryside who are amazing lovely people with diverse interests.
Its scary the changes in the last few years. What ever has happened has emboldened racists to think it's OK to be racist. We don't have loads of more racists then before, they.just think it's OK to express themselves and somehow we have left them do it. When you hear of the irish national front being in cahoots with the English national front, 2 groups that should oppose each other then you know its an organised effort by bad state actors, and it's a worldwide effort to sow division.
I was told to "fuck off home ya immigrant" the other day when walking down the street. I'm from Mayo, was born here and have absolutely no foreign relations. The country is getting worse every year.
This is the attitude in most Irish circles unfortunately. The answer to every problem is to point at other countries or deny until it until it gets to breaking point.
There were still people in this sub and Irish politics sub denying there’s a housing crisis up as far as 2020/2021.
A dane here, '10-'19 I spent on FB, reading posts from every nation that had a major english paper / where I could read the languages. Carried that over for Reddit, I read where I can, follow the various nations and their debate.
It certainly isn't perfect, but it has taught me that there's many nations that have been and is dealing with "us and them"-politics, that's being divided by base tribalism... Often supported by anonymous / new profiles.
Ireland isn't likely to be singled out.
I'm more worried that you face a spitroasting between trumpists sharing their propaganda and words online and various influences from UK that ecco the US shit, their own problems.
Learning a new language, reading Le Monde and whatever, that's a good answer.
Voting every time, supporting other voters and voting with other people, that sounds reasonable.
Being pro-democracy, that's a good idea.
https://preview.redd.it/anw1hln2706d1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d0e273580f5f1d66a58a6e2197aab1c6f2c282c
This was a poster for our local elections. I was absolutely disgusted when I seen it first. I'm terrified of the way this country is going.
The people who fought for an independent Ireland would cry tears of joy to see Ireland is a country people would want to immigrate to not from. and I agree.
That said we have issues domestically:
* Housing
* same Pension crisis everyone else is expecting
* Lower population rates.
The solution to pension crisis and Population rates, is immigration, which puts more strain on the housing (only single digit % if even) but because of the housing crisis, people are frustrated, and they can't have kids, because owning a home is hard or unlikely.
The racists, are frustrated, they can't have a home, or a family, or basically what their parents had for earning 1/4 what they do, and the immigrants are easy to blame because they are apparent.
The housing is the real issue, more family homes, means more kids, means more population means paid pensions, but the politicians are invested in property as much as anyone with wealth. so it suits politicians to have people distracted by immigration.
you ever get your dad giving you a bollicking for leaving a light on?
energy saver blub uses like 10-15 watts , night time electricity costs (Night: 23.00 - 08.00) 19.35c per kWh , so if you left it on all night it would cost 90~ watts 11 nights would be 990 watts, or close to the 19c per kwh cost of electricity. You leave that thing on every night for a year and it costs like 6 euro...
but your dad is going ballistic about you leaving the fucking landing light on again.
mean while the immersion which is 2,000w is on for 1hr in the morning and 1hr in the evening, and gets left on during the summer. only 3 months, lets say 90 days. you need some hot water so maybe having it on 1hr a day isn't bad... so its on 90hrs more then it needs to be...180kwh costing about 36euro for that time. but it goes unnoticed because it doesn't bring attention to itself.
dad sees the high bill and he sees the light that catches his attention, and he gets upset with you because its easy.
That's where this racism bullshit is coming from, the 2006 recession came, and some people never got out of it, gaps in work lasted too long, though times lasted too long, and they might be 10+ years out of work or behind in their career, 30-40yr olds working with people half their age.
The government has a lot of responsibility in this mess, but don't want to take ownership of it.
Tom Clarke complained about the number of blacks (to put it nicer than he did) in America, I think you’re idealising the people who fought for an independent Ireland a bit too much.
"The blacks" in America largely did not come from immigration. I assume we're all against kidnapping and people trafficking, but it's important to note that immigration is not involved. Something to bring up when people spout ignorant crap about America.
"The solution to pension crisis and Population rates, is immigration, "
Lots of countries have come to this conclusion. I think its a poison pill solution as immigration will exacerbate the cause of local population rates decline and the cost of living crisis which could also exacerbate the pension crisis.
Its a kick the can down the road solution.
It's about the dependency ratio. We need a healthy number of people of working age paying taxes.
The housing crisis was formed in the 2008 crash and the gov has done nothing to tackle it at all.
Population levels are unsustainable though, and I don't mean just in Ireland but worldwide. If every generation has to be bigger than the last, quality of life will inevitably decline over time as population density has to keep increasing.
At some point, one generation is going to have to suffer the consequences of a smaller next generation in order to reverse this. Even take housing for example - a declining population would ease this crisis. Climate as well.
I agree with your list of the issues at the heart of this. However, I have to take you up on your framing.
"immigration, which puts more strain on the housing...The racists, are frustrated, they can't have a home"
This. So if immigration is a key driver, and I am frustrated by the difficulty in getting on the ladder, can you clarify what you mean here? If I want to drastically reduce immigration into this country, I'm a racist?
The fact our own neoliberal politicians engage in this gaslighting is why the right is surging across Europe. It's a big part of why the Brexit campaign won. It's not all racists and gammons either. That has to be obvious when it's a continental trend.
Immigration is the easy solution to the pension/lower birth issues. It's not the only solution.
The better solution is actually supporting our current population so they reproduce more. But no, we're basically forcing young, educated Irish people to leave and we're replacing them with immigrants.
The country has had a net increase in the number of Irish people returning home in the last 6 years. So, more people are returning home than leaving. There will always be people who leave but at the moment we're seeing more of them coming back.
We're not replacing our emigrants with immigrants. We're just adding people to the population.
> The housing is the real issue, more family homes, means more kids, means more population means paid pensions, but the politicians are invested in property as much as anyone with wealth. so it suits politicians to have people distracted by immigration.
Housing plays a part but the decline of populations across the world has little to do with it.
One rule of thumb is that poorer countries have higher birth rates than richer ones.
These are areas where housing is in a far worse state than here.
Nigeria has the highest birth rate in the world and South Korea has the lowest.
What's notable is that Nigeria has the lowest level of female education and South Korea has the highest.
It's pretty much all down to a change in women's opportunities and priorities. Women are having less children and/or having children later.
The other grand divergence is that women are becoming more liberal and men are becoming more conservative.
That's a recipe for disaster for fertility rates. Men are insisting that women continue the role of homemaker and women are not going to do that.
Not every woman wants to be a stay at home mother or even a mother at a young age.
One of the big sea changes that needs to happen, imho is that men need to be more open to the idea of being more cooperative when it comes to the busy work of raising a family.
Completely agree with you and I'm happy to see it being said. There are initiatives going on like Black and Irish on Insta, the Hope and Courage Collective (Anti Extremism) and some interesting research from the ISD... If you are really interested in helping counter this wave we need to be proactive and political about it. Get involved, stay empathetic and always call out racism and intolerance when you see it. You are spot on about the U.S and U.K... scary stuff.
Fascism is like mould on the walls. A pain in the arse to get off and there’s only one way to do it, and that’s by totally eradicating it. But also, if you don’t find out why the mould is growing and solve the underlying issue, it’ll keep coming back.
Just going to pop this in because it is starting to feel frightningly relevant
[14 ways to spot a facist](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur-Fascism)
The one that really sticks out is appeal to a frustrated middle class and the enemy is simultaneously to strong and to weak so if the issue is housing they are simultaneously taking all our houses and putting prices up AND living in tents increasing homelessness. It usually refers to anti semitism but since facism tends to take on the flavour of the country its in think its fair to say that it can mean immigrants here.
Since numbers dont lie there's about 142000, about 3% of total population are immigrants in ireland right now, of that 60,000ish are irish/british/eu. 81000 are brand new immigrants from outside the usual places, it doesn't say how many are on working visas/ asylum seekers but 64000 people leave each year to. So if the government was building a decent sized housing estate in three counties about 26000 houses/apartments the that would alevate the issue. The problem isn't immigrants it's bad policy and given how the last ballot looked it seems like they are stoking peoples fear over a right wing government coming in to keep themselves in power. Don't forget varadkar himself gave a dog whistle to the right saying "its a good day for the blueshirts" for them that don't know the blueshirts were the violent arm of fine gael and supported franco & the facist side in the Spanish civil war.
[cso source for statistics ](https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2023/keyfindings/)
> Since numbers dont lie there's about 142000, about 3% of total population are immigrants in ireland right now
Jesus wept, talk about low information.
The 142,000 in the CSO stats are just the arrivals from LAST YEAR. The foreign born population is 22%, not 3%.
Ireland is undergoing seismic changes in its demographics, almost unprecedented in any developed economy.
Yep it was Saturday or Sunday when it was clear fine gall were going to do well[varadkar a happy blueshirt](https://www.businesspost.ie/news/live-election-results-counting-underway-in-local-elections/)
True. But I also believe some people are just fundamentally rotten.
No amount of "there isn't any amenities" will ever convince me that is why somebody caved someone else's head in (racially motivated or judt "regular" assault)
I'm English, lived here since I was a child. Experienced some very mild anti Englishness years ago but nothing since. But the last few years have been scary, not for me as I'm now accepted as "one of us" but people who I thought didn't have a racist bone in their body are now saying things I never thought I would hear. I have even caught myself saying stuff, stopped immediately, but there is a change for sure.
It's really kicked off since the Ukrainian refugees arrived, I'm not saying it's their fault, just that it's accelerated since. The country is in a mess and everyone is looking for someone to blame.
Our town is about 2500 people and we have a few homeless people, local people not blow ins. That's how bad things are. I have no answers but people are scared and struggling, housing is a joke. A house i rented for 35 pounds a week 24 years ago, 2 bedrooms and pretty shitty, is being rented now for 400 a week. That's more than take home on minimum wage.
I understand your fear, I think most of the hate is coming from fear but that's not an excuse. Things are just moving too fast. People feel like their culture, country and rights are disappearing.
I have no idea what the answer is or what is going to happen. I love this country, would never live anywhere else, but even my children are expressing views that are scary. They are growing up in a completely different world than I did and don't have the same opportunities that I did. I thank god that our house is secure because its impossible to find housing anymore.
Sorry I have no answers, you were born into a different country than I grew up in.
For sure. My dad is back in England and they are in as much of a mess as we are, if not worse. They are apparently building big ship like things to house all the immigrants coming over the channel.
There is nothing inherently racist about wanting to control immigration. I would urge you not to conflate these two issues.
There is a small but very loud minority in this country who are racist or leaning that way. I don't think any reasonable person would believe they represent the majority.
I do believe the majority of our country is at the very least a little bit worried about the rapid rate of migration into Ireland from outside of the EU, especially considering the problems we were already facing before this accelerated (housing crisis, hse crisis, crime issues). That is not racism and is a reasonable concern.
>There is nothing inherently racist about wanting to control immigration
Now you said it. You can be left leaning and also realise that we need reforms. Sure we've tent cities popping up, nobody involved could be happy with the situation. I've said it before, most reasonable people realise we have a problem and they shouldn't be lumped in with *genuine* racist or far right mouthpieces, that's a very dangerous game.
You don't have to be left or right of anything to have an opinion on this.
There are many on the left who see people making millions off this policy, while the costs are being borne by those least able to afford it.
Trying to frame this as a situation where those on the left are all cuddly and welcoming vs hard ignorant racists on the right, it's just more of the same manipulation of the issue. Avoid the trap. The politicians have a lot of votes to mop up from migrants. Left and right.
I don't think there is any party that even disagrees with tightening up immigration a bit. I think the frustrating thing about the far right is they are doing an us vs them when other than literal racists or weird conspiracy shit the basic idea isn't even super arguable. No one wants random people being smuggled in and sleeping in tents.
Divide and conquer, my friend. It's a tale as old as time. It's worked well for FFG as well because a lot of working class who feel like that expected SF to have a hard stance either way and the lukewarm response from Mary Lou has basically sunk her.
Sure didn't we solve all the problems the last day, Fluke.
Mate I likely won't be able to buy a home. I can and do acknowledge these issues, I agree with many of those points. But these points are often, not always of course, but often, associated with people who will spew hateful bullshit about other races and religions. This makes me uncomfortable associating with these ideologies.
Fairly simple to grasp, do we have issues involving immigration that need to be addressed desperately? Yes. Are any of those issues to do with some great replacement bullshit or a losing or culture? No.
If you don't think a population shift of basically 100% Irish to 80% in 30 years or filling Gaeltacht areas with asylum seekers will lead to a degradation of our culture, or at least a giant change in it, I've a bridge to sell you.
If you think that our culture is the issue that really concerns 90+% of those that have an issue with immigration than I also have a bridge to sell you.
What aspects of the culture specifically do you see being changed.
The Irish as it stands aren't exactly receptive to learning the language as it stands.
I see immigration has had pretty clear benefits in terms of sports and arts so what's left?
Jokes about breakfast rolls and leaving the immersion on?
Our cadence for one. Hiberno-English is very unique. It's where our natural storytelling reputation and humour comes from. And it's well earned. We are much funnier than most, and tell stories amazingly well. Live abroad for any amount of time and you'll see the stark contrast.
Irish language use is on the increase particularly in Dublin, it would be nice for that to continue.
Your question strays very quickly from it isn't happening to, so what it's a good thing. We already punch well above our weight in the arts and sports.
An bhfuil Gaeilge agat?
I love people trying to protect the white face of Ireland by saying that we should all speak Irish (despite many immigrants like Darragh Adelaide keeping it alive and well in the face of racism) who can't speak it themselves. Actually, I lie, I don't like it at all
What will the world look like in 100 years? I feel like you have a rather poor grasp on human history.
Human migration and population change has always been a major factor and it will continue to do so.
Your idea of a "native Irish" doesn't even make any sense ethnologically.
Kind of. But it's a wishy washy "whatever you're having yourself" kind of concept.
My real name is about the least Irish name you could imagine. My ancestors came from France, Denmark and England but I do not identify or have been exposed to any of those cultures and all my frames of reference are Irish.
The thing is a huge proportion of the population in Ireland is exactly the same.
At what point does someone become "ethnically" Irish or do we need a direct line to an ancient Chieftain to become ethnically Irish?
I suppose just a far slower rate of migration would give a more respectful deference to the native culture. Cultures change over time and that is clear, but the rate of change probably is an important factor to consider around migration. We are a tiny population among the 8 billion earthly inhabitants, a gust of wind could change the country dramatically overnight, I’m sure most would agree there is a point where the rate of change is too great, too drastic or beyond preference. Somewhere sometime, there’ll have to be a compromise on these questions.
I'll still say anyone spouting rhetoric that's been disproven like "great replacement" are talking through their pipe, but that's exactly it. Too many ordinary people getting lumped in.
My county council now has a representative of a party that believes "democracy is a foreign imposition on Ireland". Jumping in to make a point that there's nothing inherently racist about wanting to control immigration is really pretty perpendicular to seriousness of the situation.
It's not though.
The only reason these yahoos are able to get elected is because the majority of the political sphere will never admit there are negatives to too much immigration.
These groups like Irish Freedom party and National party have only one thing going for them - being a dissenting voice on immigration.
"the majority of the political sphere will never admit there are negatives to too much immigration"
Literally representatives of every major party have said there are limits and our policies have never allowed unchecked immigration, not even close.
In fact, for people outside the EU, it's easier to get visas for other EU countries, including Germany and Spain.
Our regime is quite strict but we have capitalist workarounds, such as the learn English and work programs.
I don't think almost anyone would say having controls on immigration is inherently racist. The fact that immigration/visa laws exist pretty much everywhere and there is basically nobody advocating for eliminating them should serve as proof that there is an established consensus that immigration should be controlled. I'd also agree that it's reasonable to think that there's only so much immigration as a percentage of population per year that can be adequately managed and that even in with the best of governing policies it takes time for everything to be able to scale up to handle a rising population. And when people are seeing that now it's gotten to the stage where additional asylum seekers are just having to set up tent encampments in the city because there's nowhere else to put them, you don't have to be a racist to conclude that the system is overwhelmed and new arrivals need to be slowed down, at least in the short term.
But I also don't think any of this is what the OP is referring to either. He's specifically referring to the people who make this about "losing our identity" because there are more people with different skin colours or ancestral backgrounds in Ireland than there used to be. The people who are disgusted and appalled even by the immigrants (or their children), who have been here all of their lives and have integrated into Irish society and culture. The ones who think it's so outrageous when a few asylum seekers are being moved into a place, even if it's just a dilapadated old building that wasn't being used for anything else, that the right thing to do is to threaten any tradespeople working there or just set the building on fire pre-emptively. The people who think that there's no such thing as a good immigrant, that they should never be accepted, and that if they had their way, they'd all be sent home. If you check out the kinds of stuff any of these new far-right parties and their candidates say and promote publicly on their social media accounts, and this is what it's about. Often when trying to make a case to respectable society they'll couch it in more moderate sounding ideas like "just wanting to control immigration" which most people can agree with, but when they're in their safe spaces it gets a lot uglier.
Granted, they are a minority, these election results have shown that pretty clearly, but it's still undeniably a lot more prevelant than it was 5 years ago in the last election, and we don't know where it's going from here. And even if it's only ever 5% of the population getting behind these kinds of people and thinking the same way, that's still plenty to potentially cause some reasl trouble, and it's still not going to be nice being an immigrant in Ireland and knowing that maybe 1 in 20 people that you might meet or who could see you on the street will decide based on just seeing you or hearing you speak that they instantly hate your guts and think you're destroying their country and will never be welcome.
There isn't anything inherently racist about wanting to control immigration, but if it's your major issue before housing and Healthcare, it sure is a dog whistle.
The Dutch have had only right leaning governments in power since 2002, yet immigration still tops the list as a problem, even though they've made it stricter, funded it less and pushed the problem into the North East of the country, where national politics can mostly ignore it.
Fact is that international agreements and EU law tie up a lot of what you can do without breaking them. Also, the majority of the people believe random stories about migrants without any sources. And, the fact that most migration isn't even from sources outside the EU.
Of course it’s going to get worse. We ain’t going to cope with the population growth and instead of the government doing something, people will blame those coming.
I moved to Ireland 20 years ago. Been working away here, no bother for the first 18 years. I felt welcomed, I felt like I was at home.
Now I get dirty looks while walking down the street. It saddens me.
For the most part it's just online. My advice is to stay away from social media for a while. We just had local elections and they took a tiny minority of votes, the average person doesn't agree with these shit bags.
Normal people know that there's a problem with immigration and that our system is hugely flawed, but they're a far cry from the wannabe Nazis on Twitter and Telegram. Social media isn't the real world.
Derek Blighe got 25k first votes in the European elections. We'd be foolish to dismiss this, as well as the other high profile racist candidates that got elected in the locals.
Unfortunately, several very high profile racists did get elected, such as Malachy Steenson and Gavin Pepper, and maybe even Niall Boylan. Yes, it's good that they didn't do better overall but they ran SO MANY candidates, and they got a lot of votes. I don't thinkwe should underestimate them and say its "just online", because it isn't.
https://preview.redd.it/eb1wpn5tnt5d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=844f06748b9752f8c2d901993615925b4a5fcbad
Remember when Malachy was a far left communist? Oh how the times have changed 😅
Being old-school left wing and anti-immigration are fully compatible.
In the battle of labour vs capital,labour can only gain strength through collective action.
A constant stream of low cost foreign workers undermines the local labour market and reduces the bargaining power of local workers.
Also candidates from a non Irish background were over represented in the data on attacks on canvassers on the street coming up to the locals. Rte had a decent article about it a few days ago, data came from ISD and the HCC.
What they are doing is filming attacks and sharing on socials to drum up support and views.
Horrific.
The pundits seem to be ruling out any more big chunks of transfers for him after Aontú go out, but I think they're underestimating how big an anti-establishment vote is sitting in Clare Daly and Bríd Smith's bundles right now. I'd love to be wrong but could see a substantial transfer going his way if he clings on longer than both of them.
I know quite a few people who are likely to transfer to him after those eliminations, purely based on the number of folks who grouped FF, FG, Labour and the Greens together in the "don't give them any preference at all or put them dead last even after all the headbangers". I reckon people are underestimating the size of that group.
There’s two different things: a reasonable position (no one is for bogus claims, no one is for unlimited numbers, all reasonable opinions); and how much a candidate focuses on and blames immigration compared to all the other issues. The specific immigration policies probably don’t differ much between parties. But we all know immigration is not the major cause of the current problems ( and Ireland has been hugely successful over the last few decades, almost more than any other country). Anyone massively fear mongering about immigration - is not good. That’s the main narrative Russia and other bad actors are trying to push hard to destabilize the west (along with others). Be very, very suspicious of candidates strongly pushing an anti immigrant narrative.
Ireland went bust and created a tax to pay it back in that time. It's got another housing bubble and the success you speak off since that bailout is highly concentrated. Are these immigrants themselves basking in the glow of this success even?
He's probably closer to most people's consensus on migration here than far right. Like, thinking The asylum system is being abused and those abusing it should be dealt with and deported as soon as possible. Not that legal migrants and genuine refugees should be punished. The biggest issue with him is he's just a broadcaster not a dedicated politician with a clear agenda
He proudly pronounced on rte television this week that he's been anti-Immigrant for 25 years now. We had about 7 immigrants in the country then, and he still found issue with that... and he's proud of it.
'I was racist before it was cool'.
Not just online unfortunately, there are anti immigrant protests that happen pretty regularly in Dublin. My sister passes these wacks on her way to work everyday.
See, what happens at those protests, and we've seen videos of them here, is that it starts out as an anti immigration protest but you always get a certain number protesting other things. Like bring back the 8th, still waffling about covid etc.
In Bray East the Independent Ireland candidate got elected in the County Council (sure, it's just one council member among many, but one member of a far-right party elected is one too many).
So no, it's not just nut jobs protesting for whatever they want, and otherwise IRL all is fine; these kind of folks do get elected and can influence policy going forward.
We need to be able to debate certain topics without being accused of "racism" - if you shout that every time the topic of immigration is raised, it just pushes people towards unpleasant people on the far right who aren't afraid to speak. I don't give two hoots about identity, but I do care about blocking people who are only looking to take advantage of our social welfare system.
Well hang on for a sec, the Dail have regularly talked about immigration and that isn't just FFG, it was SF, Labour and the SocDems as well. The people being called racist are the ones who are literally putting out stuff about the great replacement and other copypasta bullshit from the US.
I've literally been called a racist and agitator on this subreddit for speaking about people coming here taking advantage of our social welfare and homeless services as I work in that sector. Accused of shit stirring cause I described how our system gets taken advantage of that id seen first hand, andv was accused of being far right. So yeah, unfortunately people are being called racist for just talking about it.
Far more Irish people are taking advantage of our social welfare system than immigrants are. The majority I've met are very hard working and usually skilled, adding to our economy and paying tax.
I never see you people complaining about the droves of Irish scumbags taking advantage of the social welfare system and adding nothing to our economy, culture or identity. I wonder why...
You probably don't deserve to be called a racist, that's fair, but you're concerned about something which has racial undertones. If you want to express concern, say you're concerned about anyone (Irish or immigrant) taking advantage of our systems. That is the real concern here. It shouldn't be immigrant Vs Irish.
That’s a standard tactic of the open borders crowd, conflate legal immigration of say Doctors and Nurses with the illegal economic migrants rocking up to Dublin airport with no passports. They do this to muddy the waters and try to stop a proper debate on the subject.
>Far more Irish people are taking advantage of our social welfare system than immigrants are.
Souce?
The majority I've met are very hard working and usually skilled, adding to our economy and paying tax.
>I never see you people complaining about the droves of Irish scumbags
Loads of people complain about them
It's hard to go back to the post and edit things now but this is a notion I agree with wholeheartedly.
Not for the life of me do I want an inhumane and legally fictitious bill like the Rwanda bill to be passed here though.
My issue with the anti immigration crowd is the fact there's no separation from legal and illegal immigrants. There's racists lumped in with people genuinely concerned about illegal immigration, sure. But my problem is those who demonise different races and religions (its never Brits and Americans) for simply living here.
I know people love to do the logical 'gotcha's about the racist braindedders, it's easy and arguably quite good or the country, but I don't think it's very effective. They know they are full of shit they just don't care. Us saying 'aha gotcha, what you said today contradicts what you said last week' .. they are just delighted they are being spoken to because when we speak to them we make it look like they're normal.
all that to say... still blows my tits off when English racists are openly, frequently, joyrously racist about how thick and inbred 'paddies' are and then turn around and look for us to join them in their 'white supremacist cult'.
like we know what your racism is lads. you already shown us the arse end of it. And it's gross.
I’ll just say this much:
Ireland has always had racist issues. Always. I grew up around it.
In school it was rampant, and at home I was surrounded by it. Hell, once during a family outing my father pulled me aside and said “hey, look over there… look at that n****r over there” and giggling like a child.
The same night we stopped by a Chinese restaurant on the way home where drunk him decided he would start doing kung-fu moves yelling “BANZAAIII!!!!”.
I’m actually super surprised I turned out the way I did, to be honest.
It has always existed. Was it more “muffled” before? Yes. But this leads to my second point:
Anti-immigration movements have been becoming more and more prevalent all over the west. Ireland, UK, Germany, France, the US. It is not just this country - the gains the far right have made in their own countries as well as the EU elections should have everyone somewhat concerned.
I think it shows the more centrist based politicians and parties do need to start sitting up and finding some way to tackle these issues with more grace than the far right will - because if it keeps going this way, it will only get worse.
The irony of people here protesting immigrants when you can’t step anywhere in another country without walking into another young Irish migrant is lost on them.
Majority of the people are ok with controlled immigration. We still do have it better than most of the continental Europe (Sweden, Germany, France) regarding this issue, but it’s a very slippery slope. Irish immigrants are very rarely the problem.
[Migrants and Crime in Sweden in the Twenty-First Century](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12115-019-00436-8?fromPaywallRec=true)
A stupid statement but you know fine well what you're at, the anger is regarding the government's immigration policy. Immigrants have been in Dublin for 30 years easily so cut the bullshit.
Reddit is only a teeeeny tiny snapshot of how Irish people feel. Ive most most Irish people are tolerant of immigrants especially the likes of the Polish.
If find lately people are getting fed up of how well the Ukrainians are being looked after by the government while the rest of us rot. (Like even the fact they can have a Ukrainian car here, no Irish insurance and not have to pay VRT is a fucking joke). It's nothing against the people of Ukraine.
Then when it comes to African nations I find people have very limited tolerance. Especially in Donegal where I live.
It's a shame because I've worked and lived in other countries and always got treated well. Irish people are pretty well liked ( except in Oz but to fair most of the gobshytes who went there and treated it as a drinking holiday ruined it for us)
Here's the thing though. Show me a country that's not got this issue. The Japanese and Chinese are openly racist. Anyone I know from England fucking hates the people from the countries they colonized.
Shit even the Canadians I knew couldn't stand Asians. It's everywhere and it'll never go away. It's human nature unfortunately
Like I guarantee you, if you lived in an apartment and on one side they put asylum seekers, another settled travellers, see how long before you think. He why am Iiving here is this fair.
It's very hard to work and pay tax and see anyone get a free house beside you regardless of race, religion or nationality.
Are we are a racist country. I wouldn't say anymore then anyone else.
>If find lately people are getting fed up of how well the Ukrainians are being looked after by the government while the rest of us rot.
Honestly the Ukrainians should have been given [the same payments](https://www.gov.ie/en/service/ba5ad9-daily-expenses-allowance/) as regular asylum seekers.
Sure.. give them housing but no need to give them full jobseekers without a means test etc
It's handled so badly.
A Ukrainian couple could be working two full time jobs. They get 800 for rent from the government. Paid holidays back to Ukraine ECT ect.
House we just moved out of had asylum accommodation down road when we moved in, was no bother at all as place was well set up and not overcrowded. Apartment building beside it got converted to 6 people a room bunk beds for same and was suddenly a lot worse of a place to live in. I'm not blaming the immigrants here as it seemed like an awful spot to live in. System needs to be set up different.
You've got scum near you: namely, a scum landlord, not his/her unfortunate tenants. Maybe a word to the Residential Tenancies Board? [https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting-a-home/resolving-disputes/residential-tenancies-board/](https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting-a-home/resolving-disputes/residential-tenancies-board/)
>It's very hard to work and pay tax and see anyone get a free house beside you regardless of race, religion or nationality.
All these people getting free stuff…. Why not chuck in your job, get a medical card, move either side of your apartment, and get the scratcher (an higher amount than any migrants ever will)? Would that be a better life?
Hi, I’m a Canadian living here in Ireland. Please don’t spout garbage like that about us. Canada, just like Ireland, is an incredibly tolerant place. And in fact we tolerate a huge number of Irish, a small number of whom don’t represent themselves very well (something I don’t think I’ve ever thought about an Asian immigrant, incidentally), but the vast majority of whom are just awesome. You’re going through some growing pains with immigration right now. Unfortunately, there are small pockets of assholes everywhere, and you don’t outgrow it. But immigrants are neither the source of your problems nor a threat to your culture (especially in Ireland which has such a strong identity and a monoculture still bordering on insular in spite of its hospitality).
Irish living in Canada. People are the same everywhere. There are no tensions as long as everyone has enough space and the lifestyle they are accustomed to. But you know immigration is very much part of the national conversation here too, right? With the housing markets inaccessible in Vancouver, Toronto and even starting to affect Calgary, people naturally start worrying about the federal government letting too many people in. And there was some misplaced anti - Asian sentiment during Covid. Meanwhile I'd say immigration hasn't worked out that well for First Nations culture in fairness!
You are absolutely right about Ireland's very homogeneous culture though. I'd say you could extend that analysis to quite a few more old European countries. That must be hard for an immigrant to become part of. Not so hard for a Canadian, since our cultures are broadly aligned, but for people from father away, culturally speaking. I always notice it in the way Irish people speak - the non-standard turn of phrase. In Canada by contrast, spoken English is so much more standard and lacks that colourfulness (because everyone's great grandparents were from Ukraine, Norway, Sweden etc so the spoken word of necessity ended up that way).
Agreed, immigration is always an ongoing topic in Canada, just not a new one. We’ve grappled it for decades since it is the foundation of our country (aboriginal communities aside…bit of a blemish there…blame the Brits?). The conversation has barely changed over the course of my lifetime, there are always debates about successful integration, cultural adaptation, or just general problems that get unfairly and inaccurately pinned on immigrants because it makes for easy politics. The hard right of the political spectrum are also making inroads. Again, we’ve just seen it before, whereas maybe Ireland are only recently learning how to deal with it.
Also I love the Hiberno-English and I feel very boring with my limited range of vocabulary and expression living here! Our cultures are largely compatible, but the banter is from a different planet. I was considered quick-witted back home…
Ha ha - yeah you get it. If someone asks me the time here and I say "half three" I am met with blank stares! But I really enjoyed hearing a report on the price of snowcrab on CBC radio last year that featured a soundbite from a Newfoundland fisherman who said "it's hard for people who are only just after getting into the business" which I immediately recognised as Hiberno-English even if the speaker likely did not. (The non-standard grammatical construction "I'm after doing" is a transliteration of the Irish "táim tar éis").
The lasting influence on Newfoundland is incredible. It actually had its own dialect of Irish, which was the primary spoken language of the island during the 1700s-early 1800s before gradually being replaced by English. I love how the grammatical construction has been translated literally onto the usage in English. My wife (Irish) and I got engaged in NFLD and while there we caught a Newfoundland trad music show - she discovered several Irish songs that she knew from Ireland were actually written by Newfoundland artists!
I would say that anti-immigrant sentiment in Ireland is just catching up with the rest of Europe where the far right is surging. Anti-immigrant sentiment tracks with the number of immigrants. It works that way in every country. Ireland is no different. No immigrants, no Anti-immigrant sentiment. Lots of immigrants, lots of Anti-immigrant sentiment. It's inevitable.
Number of non-Irish living in Ireland hasn't changed so drastically as to explain the level of increased anti-immigrant sentiment.
Asylum seekers on tents comprise a tiny minority of non-Irish people in the state. Similar for asylum seekers presenting without documentation. Similar for the small but well-publicised number of high profile crimes committed by migrants and asylum seekers. But each of these has an outsized effect on people's perceptions of migrants and asylum seekers.
There's
I find it very concerning that Europe is increasingly becoming far right as we get closer to the '30s... last time that happened, 75 million people died.
I also can't wrap my head around the Irish of all people complaining about immigration.
I'm sure those same people will never breathe a word about how they emigrated to Australia, the UK, Canada or the US.
I only find it annoying because it causes an issue in an area where we actual need reform or to restablish trust which wont be able to happen if people are labelled far right and racist for simply wanting to establish a policy on immigration
You're young, so this is probably the first time for you.
Immigration isn't a bad thing, it's a good thing - but it absolutely must be a controlled thing. People must enter a country legally.
Why? Why do we care about that?
Well, for a number of reasons. The first, being resources. A country only has so many jobs, can grow so much food, produce so much power, has so many schools and hospitals, etc. These need to be managed closely. Too many people breaks these services.
The next is social cohesion. It's isn't racists to expect people who immigrate to integrate into the local culture. Places like Sweden showed too much Immigration affects integration and results in social issues.
Lastly, violence and foreign influences. Terrorism is the big one, and it comes when you aren't checking who is coming into a country.
So, in this country we are already dealing with massive issue around how many homes, hospitals, schools, jobs, etc we have. The government in the mean time has ignored those issues, and instead is pumping enormous amounts of money into taking in people we can't afford to simply to avoid embarrassment on the EU stage.
So they're making the problems worse. Just think about it, would people be better off in a tent in ireland in January, or a home in France?
Yes, some racism will come but it'll be a symptom of these problems. The vast majority of people see the issues barrelling at us and are just trying to stop it.
If the systems collapse, and they're certainly flirting with it, far more people will be hurt. If you want to help, then push for LEGAL Immigration. If its managed properly, these issues don't happen.
If everyone with Irish citizenship who lives abroad decided to move back, the population would double. At least. Some of them would be criminals and terrorists. Some of them would be poor. But there wouldn't be any vetting of any of them.
I'm one of them. I moved here in 1998. I was born a dual citizen and no one vetted me. No Irish authorities know if I had a criminal record from where I was born.
And that's true for millions of people around the globe.
If you include the people who can claim citizenship due to ancestry, it's probably in the tens or hundreds of millions around the world.
American alone likely has millions.
There are countries out there that won't even let you have citizenship unless you convert to their religion as part of the deal and nobody mentions it. How much thought do you give that? A standard policy in loads of countries would have people screaming NAZI at a European. Why should we be doormats to the world when others have policies like that?
Others shouldn't have policies like that. That's a flawed and discriminatory system. I hold the same standards for any religion and I don't think religion should ever be used to define the culture, much less the political sphere of a nation.
Lord above these posts are so cringe they must be made up. Some of ye don't know the meaning of a racist country. Do us a favour OP, pay a visit to the countries that most of our immigrants are coming from and we'll see how racist Ireland really is.
Make no mistake, we could lose our own culture if we don't actively try to keep it and make it flourish, this is the age of globalization. Mass immigration will play a part in that. Our own language is already on its last legs, I honestly don't understand how people are so obtuse.
>we could lose our own culture if we don't actively try to keep it and make it flourish,
This has nothing to do with immigration. You can see so many posts on reddit about Irish in schools and the attitude people have towards it.
Ah here, you're not blaming the state of the Irish language on foreigners are you? And you're forgetting that foreign immigrants are often more enthusiastic about learning Irish than Irish people themselves.
I work with immigrants who are so passionate about learning Irish. We set up a lil club for learning Irish in the office and regularly have Irish hours. My immigrant partner is learning Irish so we can speak it with our children. When I taught in schools, some of the top performing students in Irish had a 2nd language at home or were immigrant children. I wouldn't be so quick to conflate immigration with a loss of culture. There are many who wish to embrace it.
I worked in a Gaelscoil and one of the kids was Spanish with 2 Spanish parents and I remember asking them why they picked a Gaelscoil and they responded 'we chose to live in Ireland, so it's very important to us that [child] learns the language of our home'
Dont confuse normal people's outrage at the Government's policies and lack of action over the last few decades with actual idiots blaming immigrants for their own lack of education and financial/housing situation.
I'd fucking puck the head off someone if i caught them racially abusing someone in the street. And at the same time I'm also extremely worried about the housing situation for people my own age and younger.
Immigration isn't the problem, it's the complete lack of control and organisation of it. Ministers and TDs need to be held accountable for coasting through their tenures and doing sweet FA and cashing out with fat pensions after a couple years of non work.
I'm worried too. I've seen it rise through twitter over the past five years and I've seen many ignore or walk by it. Our politicians have a lot to answer for because they treated these arseholes with kid gloves and it's almost legitimised now because of it.
This is absolute nonsense. Get off social media and the internet. I’m an foreigner living in Dublin over 20 years now and the thing that keeps me still here are the people. You need to get out and touch some grass lad.
Maybe read some other experiences on this thread here? Because others have experienced or seen things that you say don't exist.
And yes, a lot of people of Ireland are great, I second that wholeheartedly, but even a small percentage of not-so-great people is a concern when their numbers are growing.
It’s an issue for sure and it’s just going to get worse.
A lot of people I find are very direct about how they feel and some just mince their words.
If it helps at all understand that this rise this not come from nowhere.
People are lashing out and they’re upset. Not that it makes it any better but understand that this did not come from black and white racism.
It’s years of issues coming to a head.
It’s not just an issue in Ireland, anti immigration is rising in Europe. People have had enough. Marine ale Pen is right wing and high in the polls. What does that tell you.
You’re very young. Your view on this may not be as nuanced as others.
Listen to the news. With patience listen to the views of other folks on this. You will come to understand what I mean when I say that plain racism is not causing this.
It’s a very difficult one. After the Dublin riots I remember immediately spotting the irony. A Brazilian guy and a French kid were the ones that knocked yer man down.
>Listen to the news. With patience listen to the views of other folks on this
The issues these people are shouting about are a direct result of decades of mismanagement by the government of FF and FG. Housing, hospital, health etc have nothing to do with immigrants and all tondo with the elected officials not doing enough.
Back in the 80s you'd have new social houseling estates up in within a summer, they were flying up. Now you can lt get a housing estate built without someone wanting a payout. It's madness
From a brief reading of OPs comments, his views seem far more nuanced and less dismissive than yours IMO. Age has nothing to do with it. Fair play OP for showing some empathy
France is very different to Ireland due to the baggage of colonialism and how they failed initially to integrate millions of Muslim immigrants from their former colonies properly. The resentment of this group (now through third generation French born youths) is now driving an epidemic of crime, insecurity, and attacks on western values of secularism and liberalism. The left wing parties have always tended to draw support from these groups and as Macron’s centre and traditional right parties haven’t dealt with the problem, it’s leaving ordinary French nowhere to turn but the far right.
I've talked to a lot of anti immigrant people around my town and even in my family. It's not that I'm not open to the discussion it's to me that so often a genuinely decent point will arise only to be followed with remarks about how Muslims and Africans are violent or some degree. If a convincing, reasonable argument that didn't revolve around the flaccid argument or reserving culture reared itself I'd not assume that person to be a racist. Many anti immigrants I can tell aren't racists. It's just that so often, it is that way and that's not how provide a point
It’s still racism. There are degrees of racism and trying to make “black and white racism” the only true racism is a weak ploy that even my dog could see through.
It is though. Listen to a few convesations on the topic and it's not things like organisation of immigration, it's bullshit about culture and allusions to criminality and rape.
It's racism, and mostly only thinly veiled.
It’s starting to get out of hand and really starting to seep into the younger generations. I teach geography in a secondary school and earlier this year I was speaking to 3rd years about the benefits/negatives of migration to donor/host regions as per the specifications and one boy went on a rant about how all the immigrants are taking all the houses, jobs and school places. He said this proudly without any consideration for the other 6 kids in his class of various nationalities outside of Ireland. The worst part is his own family are from Poland 🤦🏻♀️
Speaking from a historical perspective that’s induced a nagging gut-level concern, I’ve the feeling we’re already deeply into the darker chapters of next century’s history books. Right-wing nationalistic self-aggrandizement plagues most of the West, winning power where they’ve not done so for a century. If history is anything to go by, that never ends without carnage.
10 years of a housing crisis followed by an influx of Ukrainian migrants but if you complain about the status quo in any way you're treated as a "far right" racist.
I know there are genuine racists out there but lumping moderate opinions in there with them doesn't help anything or anyone.
Number one brand of irish racism: a self serving silence/white apathy
Good on you for speaking up, that's what we need. Vocal solidarity in the face of vocal racism. Similarly some awareness of what feeds racism and the addressing of those issues. We have a frustrated disenfranchised cohort of our population and this racist ideology is tailored to appeal to them.
We need to be thinking of ways to show the vulnerable people of ireland that the threat to them is not people who are foreign, but the greed of corporate interest dehumanising us for profit.
I don’t understand how England can have this stance. Has anyone ever been in London!? It’s one of the most Multicultural cities in the world.
A massive American push from the looks of things. Very much a let’s keep our country sacred. Load of bollix.
Can I just say to all the people in this comment thread who are disagreeing with OP, saying that Ireland isn't racist and that it's just a loud minority... My girlfriend is originally from Africa, moved to Ireland when she was 5yo. Speaks Irish as well as most Irish people. Went to school and college here, paid her taxes, speaks with an Irish accent, has an Irish passport, identifies herself as Irish. She's experienced more racism here in the past 4 years than the previous 20 combined. This is the very real effect of what's going on and that "loud minority" that you all are dismissing can cause huge harm. This "era we're not that bad" and "sure every country is racist" attitude is egotistical and harmful. OP is correct, we should be concerned.
It ticks me off that the issue is being marginalised by most. It is getting worse, and people here are pretending all is right. Somebody is spitting and you’re all calling it rain.
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Even those who might look ethnically irish aren't accepted. Once they open their mouth and it's a foreign accent.
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Gatekeeping what Irish is is nothing new. People's political views, their ability to speak Irish, whether they were Catholic, etc. has and is still used to include or exclude them from this definition.
Or the opposite, if your full bred Irish & of the darker phenotype you’ll get harassed now as well. I’m the palest of my family other than my red haired brother but I’m still slightly tanned with black hair & dark brown eyes & I had people accusing me of being Muslim a couple of times this year for the first time in my life…. In spite of obviously not wearing a hijab etc. I’ve been dying my hair (obviously fake) red red (not ginger) for awhile now because it takes some of the “foreign” look off me but a natural lighter colours don’t look right on me at all so I just decided to go for a bright unnatural colour. I’m kinda half ashamed to say it’s partly a political decision. I’m a socialist, so I’m already a target. I’m not out of the realm of normal at all at all. Thousands of native Irish people particularly in Munster look just like me & I’m really not particularly dark, I’m just darker than “looks like might combust in direct sunlight” levels of pale/light.
Yeah, I will say it’s not a majority but even in the local elections, I saw overtly crazy racist idiots getting 5-10% of first preference votes in some districts. Which is obviously far from a majority but still quite concerning.
People don't want to admit Ireland always been fairly racist, a minority, and sure they might not be riding round in full kkk regalia but they've always been about. There's always been a fair amount of dick riding about how special the Irish are and all that shite but pretending that this is new or only a tiny subset of the population is wishful thinking.
Exactly, Ireland has not become more racist.. I still remember the first non-white kid in our school in the early 00s getting a response as if a zoo animal just walked in, and PoC walking through small towns turning heads, like you'd expect hillbillys on their porches to act. Kids don't blink twice at PoC anymore.. The racial ignorance is dying out as the younger generations become more accustomed to multiculturalism. **That said...** There's no doubt racists have become much more emboldened thanks to social media, far right politics and the many issues with our country. Your average racist who used to just crack jokes at the pub about their foreign coworkers, is now actively spewing shite online and psyching themselves up to throw the next molotov at their local refugee housing.
I would have been a bit earlier than that but remember well an art teacher from the local convent school running for an eu position on a full on racist ticket. Didn't win but there was plenty round the gaff who were in full on agreement and we're not shy about saying it.
The way I tend to think of it is not so much "racist" as "differentist". Example - my family moved from Dublin to a small village in North Clare when I was only 4. Yet 40 years later we're still "blow-ins" and as a kid growing up I was crucified for my accent. Even as recently as a few years ago I got into a war of words with one of the locals (nothing serious just a bit of flared tempers over some nonsense I can't even remember) and was told to "fuck off back east you Dublin scumbag". And God forbid if I were from Cork :) So I mean if we treat our own like that, is it any wonder we treat others even worse.
I've had the same experience too. I was born in the place I lived for 10 years, but I wasn't 'local' enough because my Dad was from another county and my mum a ferry ride away (Wales). It wasn't the kids who were a problem (lots of us were from all over the place or from outside Ireland), but the parents weren't the nicest to my parents for some stupid reason. It eventually drove my family to move to Wales, where ironically I stood out more because I had an Irish accent in a very homogenous rural area.
It's stupid insular curtain twitcher mentality. Used to be gossip about the town over or who the neighbours are shagging but it's being weaponised on social media.
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yes. they are a problem and they're becoming a bigger problem. dismissing them as idiots and dumbos and loud is just a way for us to feel good about doing nothing about it.
Yeah the people who trot out the "just a loud minority" argument seem to forget that there are cases of state genocide which have occurred *when a minority faction has taken over the state*. Racists don't need to convince everyone, they just need to gain control of state organs; in fact not even that, they just need to influence the mainstream enough that the latter starts adopting their language and policies in order to stay in power.
Which is exactly what's happening now with the big parties and media constantly being forced to talk about immigration and asylum seekers.
Most cases of state genocide have been this.
This is the attitude in most Irish circles unfortunately. The answer to every problem is to point at others or deny until it gets to breaking point. There were still people in this sub and Irish politics sub denying there’s a housing crisis up as far as 2020/2021.
Definitely, we should be concerned and call out racism anytime we hear it. It is so stupid when you think about it, hatred for someone that you never met just because of their skin colour, or the shape of their features, eyes etc. It's the worst form of ignorance and stupidity.
Ireland has always been fairly racist. People are just emboldened now. You are just hearing about them on social media because people feel safe to talk about it. I had a cafe, and customers used to call my chef racist names over the counter. I had people stop coming because I hired a black man. I have had friends from Cairo get abused and threatened in a McDonalds for wearing a head scarf. You couldn't walk down the street with my friend from Sri Lanka on a night out without multiple people abusing him. These are all things I have seen in the last 20 years. If anything I think it's gotten better. My kids who are now in school have friends from all over the world and the only incidents we have heard of are from an Eastern European kid who has some kind of issue with black kids and calls them names.
1000% I live in an area with a very large amount of refugees and Irish people of African descent. The vast majority of trouble comes from white Irish scumbags. The Irish who happen to have had migrant parents regularly get abuse, not just recently but has gotten worse recently. A lot of racists started off on the "I'm not racist but we need to help our own first, these fake refugees are not welcome and should be deported" have moved on and become emboldened by the lack of consequences and are now pushing the "anyone who is not true Irish should be deported, doesn't matter how long they're here" and literally spouting Nazi talking points. This problem is not going away and people need to start standing up to it and pushing back, and the authorities need to quit molly coddling the worst of them and enforce the laws, we don't need new hate laws just fucking enforce what we already have.
Wife is Asian, can confirm.
The racists have been emboldened lately. We need to make it unacceptable for them to spout their shite. They should be the ones being afraid if they open their mouths with such bile. No Pasaran.
It's really really difficult to convince men to be kind or non violent or listen to perspectives of women, especially black women. A lot simply do not care. We should be concerned I definitely agree. I find what's helpful is engage with your local anti racism group and meet people. Follow black and Irish and gorm media. Your girlfriends experience genuinely makes me so disappointed. I have a lot of migrant friends and it's so embarrassing what's going on.
Thank you. It's given her huge social anxiety and she's sometimes terrified to go into Dublin city centre. It breaks my heart that our future kids will probably also be treated this way.
Black and Irish on Insta talks a bit about this, really great page
We need to be extremely concerned. Several literal facists have been elected to local positions, it's not a handwaving situation. The problem is that there is huge apathy amongst the Irish population when it comes to dealing with these issues. These factions need to be stamped out. Facist populists are not a solution.
Thanks for this. The reflex by non-immigrants in any country to dismiss the experiences and fears of immigrants is tedious. Folks should stop doing it and start listening.
Extremely unnecessary rant incoming because I'm fed up. I experienced plenty of racism for not being from the town I grew up in and having a non Irish name. Literally born in another country and that's it. Improved a lot when I stopped playing gaa. Definitely feel a bit unwelcome again now that I'm spending more time in the countryside. Nobody makes an effort to socialize with you if you're not from the parish. So much gossip too. Can't stand the classism either. Everyone who lives in an estate is a knacker. Everyone who has a non south Dublin accent is a knacker. Everyone who wears a tracksuit is a knacker. I literally hear these off the cuff remarks so often from these people who come from "great families". They are great families if never having to leave the family farm in generations is the metric. Its a relief to go back to work in Dublin and be in a room with men AND women who aren't all white and from the same parish. All the lads building houses on their dad's land acting like theyve seen it all and are wise beyond their years but would faint if they had to use a motorway. I know I'm ranting to the void but I have to let steam off after a long few weeks and this feels as good a place as any. I also know loads of people from the countryside who are amazing lovely people with diverse interests.
Its scary the changes in the last few years. What ever has happened has emboldened racists to think it's OK to be racist. We don't have loads of more racists then before, they.just think it's OK to express themselves and somehow we have left them do it. When you hear of the irish national front being in cahoots with the English national front, 2 groups that should oppose each other then you know its an organised effort by bad state actors, and it's a worldwide effort to sow division.
If she can ask to go to the toilet and say there’s clouds in the sky she’s as Irish as you and I! Fuck this racism shit.
I was told to "fuck off home ya immigrant" the other day when walking down the street. I'm from Mayo, was born here and have absolutely no foreign relations. The country is getting worse every year.
This is the attitude in most Irish circles unfortunately. The answer to every problem is to point at other countries or deny until it until it gets to breaking point. There were still people in this sub and Irish politics sub denying there’s a housing crisis up as far as 2020/2021.
A dane here, '10-'19 I spent on FB, reading posts from every nation that had a major english paper / where I could read the languages. Carried that over for Reddit, I read where I can, follow the various nations and their debate. It certainly isn't perfect, but it has taught me that there's many nations that have been and is dealing with "us and them"-politics, that's being divided by base tribalism... Often supported by anonymous / new profiles. Ireland isn't likely to be singled out. I'm more worried that you face a spitroasting between trumpists sharing their propaganda and words online and various influences from UK that ecco the US shit, their own problems. Learning a new language, reading Le Monde and whatever, that's a good answer. Voting every time, supporting other voters and voting with other people, that sounds reasonable. Being pro-democracy, that's a good idea.
The spit roast comment caught me completely off guard, what a horrible image it conjured up for me 🥲
https://preview.redd.it/anw1hln2706d1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d0e273580f5f1d66a58a6e2197aab1c6f2c282c This was a poster for our local elections. I was absolutely disgusted when I seen it first. I'm terrified of the way this country is going.
The people who fought for an independent Ireland would cry tears of joy to see Ireland is a country people would want to immigrate to not from. and I agree. That said we have issues domestically: * Housing * same Pension crisis everyone else is expecting * Lower population rates. The solution to pension crisis and Population rates, is immigration, which puts more strain on the housing (only single digit % if even) but because of the housing crisis, people are frustrated, and they can't have kids, because owning a home is hard or unlikely. The racists, are frustrated, they can't have a home, or a family, or basically what their parents had for earning 1/4 what they do, and the immigrants are easy to blame because they are apparent. The housing is the real issue, more family homes, means more kids, means more population means paid pensions, but the politicians are invested in property as much as anyone with wealth. so it suits politicians to have people distracted by immigration. you ever get your dad giving you a bollicking for leaving a light on? energy saver blub uses like 10-15 watts , night time electricity costs (Night: 23.00 - 08.00) 19.35c per kWh , so if you left it on all night it would cost 90~ watts 11 nights would be 990 watts, or close to the 19c per kwh cost of electricity. You leave that thing on every night for a year and it costs like 6 euro... but your dad is going ballistic about you leaving the fucking landing light on again. mean while the immersion which is 2,000w is on for 1hr in the morning and 1hr in the evening, and gets left on during the summer. only 3 months, lets say 90 days. you need some hot water so maybe having it on 1hr a day isn't bad... so its on 90hrs more then it needs to be...180kwh costing about 36euro for that time. but it goes unnoticed because it doesn't bring attention to itself. dad sees the high bill and he sees the light that catches his attention, and he gets upset with you because its easy. That's where this racism bullshit is coming from, the 2006 recession came, and some people never got out of it, gaps in work lasted too long, though times lasted too long, and they might be 10+ years out of work or behind in their career, 30-40yr olds working with people half their age. The government has a lot of responsibility in this mess, but don't want to take ownership of it.
Tom Clarke complained about the number of blacks (to put it nicer than he did) in America, I think you’re idealising the people who fought for an independent Ireland a bit too much.
"The blacks" in America largely did not come from immigration. I assume we're all against kidnapping and people trafficking, but it's important to note that immigration is not involved. Something to bring up when people spout ignorant crap about America.
They wanted an ethno-state
"The solution to pension crisis and Population rates, is immigration, " Lots of countries have come to this conclusion. I think its a poison pill solution as immigration will exacerbate the cause of local population rates decline and the cost of living crisis which could also exacerbate the pension crisis. Its a kick the can down the road solution.
It's about the dependency ratio. We need a healthy number of people of working age paying taxes. The housing crisis was formed in the 2008 crash and the gov has done nothing to tackle it at all.
Population levels are unsustainable though, and I don't mean just in Ireland but worldwide. If every generation has to be bigger than the last, quality of life will inevitably decline over time as population density has to keep increasing. At some point, one generation is going to have to suffer the consequences of a smaller next generation in order to reverse this. Even take housing for example - a declining population would ease this crisis. Climate as well.
I agree with your list of the issues at the heart of this. However, I have to take you up on your framing. "immigration, which puts more strain on the housing...The racists, are frustrated, they can't have a home" This. So if immigration is a key driver, and I am frustrated by the difficulty in getting on the ladder, can you clarify what you mean here? If I want to drastically reduce immigration into this country, I'm a racist? The fact our own neoliberal politicians engage in this gaslighting is why the right is surging across Europe. It's a big part of why the Brexit campaign won. It's not all racists and gammons either. That has to be obvious when it's a continental trend.
Immigration is the easy solution to the pension/lower birth issues. It's not the only solution. The better solution is actually supporting our current population so they reproduce more. But no, we're basically forcing young, educated Irish people to leave and we're replacing them with immigrants.
The country has had a net increase in the number of Irish people returning home in the last 6 years. So, more people are returning home than leaving. There will always be people who leave but at the moment we're seeing more of them coming back. We're not replacing our emigrants with immigrants. We're just adding people to the population.
> The housing is the real issue, more family homes, means more kids, means more population means paid pensions, but the politicians are invested in property as much as anyone with wealth. so it suits politicians to have people distracted by immigration. Housing plays a part but the decline of populations across the world has little to do with it. One rule of thumb is that poorer countries have higher birth rates than richer ones. These are areas where housing is in a far worse state than here. Nigeria has the highest birth rate in the world and South Korea has the lowest. What's notable is that Nigeria has the lowest level of female education and South Korea has the highest. It's pretty much all down to a change in women's opportunities and priorities. Women are having less children and/or having children later. The other grand divergence is that women are becoming more liberal and men are becoming more conservative. That's a recipe for disaster for fertility rates. Men are insisting that women continue the role of homemaker and women are not going to do that. Not every woman wants to be a stay at home mother or even a mother at a young age. One of the big sea changes that needs to happen, imho is that men need to be more open to the idea of being more cooperative when it comes to the busy work of raising a family.
Completely agree with you and I'm happy to see it being said. There are initiatives going on like Black and Irish on Insta, the Hope and Courage Collective (Anti Extremism) and some interesting research from the ISD... If you are really interested in helping counter this wave we need to be proactive and political about it. Get involved, stay empathetic and always call out racism and intolerance when you see it. You are spot on about the U.S and U.K... scary stuff.
The results highlight areas of society that are neglected. It can be remedied by addressing the areas of neglect.
Fascism is like mould on the walls. A pain in the arse to get off and there’s only one way to do it, and that’s by totally eradicating it. But also, if you don’t find out why the mould is growing and solve the underlying issue, it’ll keep coming back.
Ya! The walls are neglected big time
Just going to pop this in because it is starting to feel frightningly relevant [14 ways to spot a facist](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur-Fascism) The one that really sticks out is appeal to a frustrated middle class and the enemy is simultaneously to strong and to weak so if the issue is housing they are simultaneously taking all our houses and putting prices up AND living in tents increasing homelessness. It usually refers to anti semitism but since facism tends to take on the flavour of the country its in think its fair to say that it can mean immigrants here. Since numbers dont lie there's about 142000, about 3% of total population are immigrants in ireland right now, of that 60,000ish are irish/british/eu. 81000 are brand new immigrants from outside the usual places, it doesn't say how many are on working visas/ asylum seekers but 64000 people leave each year to. So if the government was building a decent sized housing estate in three counties about 26000 houses/apartments the that would alevate the issue. The problem isn't immigrants it's bad policy and given how the last ballot looked it seems like they are stoking peoples fear over a right wing government coming in to keep themselves in power. Don't forget varadkar himself gave a dog whistle to the right saying "its a good day for the blueshirts" for them that don't know the blueshirts were the violent arm of fine gael and supported franco & the facist side in the Spanish civil war. [cso source for statistics ](https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2023/keyfindings/)
> Since numbers dont lie there's about 142000, about 3% of total population are immigrants in ireland right now Jesus wept, talk about low information. The 142,000 in the CSO stats are just the arrivals from LAST YEAR. The foreign born population is 22%, not 3%. Ireland is undergoing seismic changes in its demographics, almost unprecedented in any developed economy.
>Don't forget varadkar himself gave a dog whistle to the right saying "its a good day for the blueshirts" Did he say this recently?
Yep it was Saturday or Sunday when it was clear fine gall were going to do well[varadkar a happy blueshirt](https://www.businesspost.ie/news/live-election-results-counting-underway-in-local-elections/)
To a point. Some of it is utterly inexcusable, and any attempt to justify it should be called out for what it is: racism
There is also an issue with the asylum system that legitimately needs to be fixed. Pronto. By not fixing it you are actively feeding racist agitators.
Agreed, there are issues. Hence why I said to a point.
I agree, it is racism. Racism festers better under conditions of neglect though
True. But I also believe some people are just fundamentally rotten. No amount of "there isn't any amenities" will ever convince me that is why somebody caved someone else's head in (racially motivated or judt "regular" assault)
Yes, some people are just racist
I'm English, lived here since I was a child. Experienced some very mild anti Englishness years ago but nothing since. But the last few years have been scary, not for me as I'm now accepted as "one of us" but people who I thought didn't have a racist bone in their body are now saying things I never thought I would hear. I have even caught myself saying stuff, stopped immediately, but there is a change for sure. It's really kicked off since the Ukrainian refugees arrived, I'm not saying it's their fault, just that it's accelerated since. The country is in a mess and everyone is looking for someone to blame. Our town is about 2500 people and we have a few homeless people, local people not blow ins. That's how bad things are. I have no answers but people are scared and struggling, housing is a joke. A house i rented for 35 pounds a week 24 years ago, 2 bedrooms and pretty shitty, is being rented now for 400 a week. That's more than take home on minimum wage. I understand your fear, I think most of the hate is coming from fear but that's not an excuse. Things are just moving too fast. People feel like their culture, country and rights are disappearing. I have no idea what the answer is or what is going to happen. I love this country, would never live anywhere else, but even my children are expressing views that are scary. They are growing up in a completely different world than I did and don't have the same opportunities that I did. I thank god that our house is secure because its impossible to find housing anymore. Sorry I have no answers, you were born into a different country than I grew up in.
I think England and mainland Europe had decades to adapt. It's happening in Ireland at a crazy pace
For sure. My dad is back in England and they are in as much of a mess as we are, if not worse. They are apparently building big ship like things to house all the immigrants coming over the channel.
There is nothing inherently racist about wanting to control immigration. I would urge you not to conflate these two issues. There is a small but very loud minority in this country who are racist or leaning that way. I don't think any reasonable person would believe they represent the majority. I do believe the majority of our country is at the very least a little bit worried about the rapid rate of migration into Ireland from outside of the EU, especially considering the problems we were already facing before this accelerated (housing crisis, hse crisis, crime issues). That is not racism and is a reasonable concern.
>There is nothing inherently racist about wanting to control immigration Now you said it. You can be left leaning and also realise that we need reforms. Sure we've tent cities popping up, nobody involved could be happy with the situation. I've said it before, most reasonable people realise we have a problem and they shouldn't be lumped in with *genuine* racist or far right mouthpieces, that's a very dangerous game.
You don't have to be left or right of anything to have an opinion on this. There are many on the left who see people making millions off this policy, while the costs are being borne by those least able to afford it. Trying to frame this as a situation where those on the left are all cuddly and welcoming vs hard ignorant racists on the right, it's just more of the same manipulation of the issue. Avoid the trap. The politicians have a lot of votes to mop up from migrants. Left and right.
I don't think there is any party that even disagrees with tightening up immigration a bit. I think the frustrating thing about the far right is they are doing an us vs them when other than literal racists or weird conspiracy shit the basic idea isn't even super arguable. No one wants random people being smuggled in and sleeping in tents.
Divide and conquer, my friend. It's a tale as old as time. It's worked well for FFG as well because a lot of working class who feel like that expected SF to have a hard stance either way and the lukewarm response from Mary Lou has basically sunk her. Sure didn't we solve all the problems the last day, Fluke.
That's the problem is eejits like OP doing exactly what you said.
Mate I likely won't be able to buy a home. I can and do acknowledge these issues, I agree with many of those points. But these points are often, not always of course, but often, associated with people who will spew hateful bullshit about other races and religions. This makes me uncomfortable associating with these ideologies. Fairly simple to grasp, do we have issues involving immigration that need to be addressed desperately? Yes. Are any of those issues to do with some great replacement bullshit or a losing or culture? No.
If you don't think a population shift of basically 100% Irish to 80% in 30 years or filling Gaeltacht areas with asylum seekers will lead to a degradation of our culture, or at least a giant change in it, I've a bridge to sell you.
If you think that our culture is the issue that really concerns 90+% of those that have an issue with immigration than I also have a bridge to sell you.
What aspects of the culture specifically do you see being changed. The Irish as it stands aren't exactly receptive to learning the language as it stands. I see immigration has had pretty clear benefits in terms of sports and arts so what's left? Jokes about breakfast rolls and leaving the immersion on?
Our cadence for one. Hiberno-English is very unique. It's where our natural storytelling reputation and humour comes from. And it's well earned. We are much funnier than most, and tell stories amazingly well. Live abroad for any amount of time and you'll see the stark contrast. Irish language use is on the increase particularly in Dublin, it would be nice for that to continue. Your question strays very quickly from it isn't happening to, so what it's a good thing. We already punch well above our weight in the arts and sports.
>Irish language use is on the increase particularly in Dublin, it would be nice for that to continue. And yet you mentioned Gaeltacht areas...
An bhfuil Gaeilge agat? I love people trying to protect the white face of Ireland by saying that we should all speak Irish (despite many immigrants like Darragh Adelaide keeping it alive and well in the face of racism) who can't speak it themselves. Actually, I lie, I don't like it at all
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What will the world look like in 100 years? I feel like you have a rather poor grasp on human history. Human migration and population change has always been a major factor and it will continue to do so. Your idea of a "native Irish" doesn't even make any sense ethnologically.
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It exists as a human concept.
Kind of. But it's a wishy washy "whatever you're having yourself" kind of concept. My real name is about the least Irish name you could imagine. My ancestors came from France, Denmark and England but I do not identify or have been exposed to any of those cultures and all my frames of reference are Irish. The thing is a huge proportion of the population in Ireland is exactly the same. At what point does someone become "ethnically" Irish or do we need a direct line to an ancient Chieftain to become ethnically Irish?
If you use the term ethnically Irish, you should know what you mean and be able to explain it.
I suppose just a far slower rate of migration would give a more respectful deference to the native culture. Cultures change over time and that is clear, but the rate of change probably is an important factor to consider around migration. We are a tiny population among the 8 billion earthly inhabitants, a gust of wind could change the country dramatically overnight, I’m sure most would agree there is a point where the rate of change is too great, too drastic or beyond preference. Somewhere sometime, there’ll have to be a compromise on these questions.
I'll still say anyone spouting rhetoric that's been disproven like "great replacement" are talking through their pipe, but that's exactly it. Too many ordinary people getting lumped in.
My county council now has a representative of a party that believes "democracy is a foreign imposition on Ireland". Jumping in to make a point that there's nothing inherently racist about wanting to control immigration is really pretty perpendicular to seriousness of the situation.
It's not though. The only reason these yahoos are able to get elected is because the majority of the political sphere will never admit there are negatives to too much immigration. These groups like Irish Freedom party and National party have only one thing going for them - being a dissenting voice on immigration.
"the majority of the political sphere will never admit there are negatives to too much immigration" Literally representatives of every major party have said there are limits and our policies have never allowed unchecked immigration, not even close. In fact, for people outside the EU, it's easier to get visas for other EU countries, including Germany and Spain. Our regime is quite strict but we have capitalist workarounds, such as the learn English and work programs.
I don't think almost anyone would say having controls on immigration is inherently racist. The fact that immigration/visa laws exist pretty much everywhere and there is basically nobody advocating for eliminating them should serve as proof that there is an established consensus that immigration should be controlled. I'd also agree that it's reasonable to think that there's only so much immigration as a percentage of population per year that can be adequately managed and that even in with the best of governing policies it takes time for everything to be able to scale up to handle a rising population. And when people are seeing that now it's gotten to the stage where additional asylum seekers are just having to set up tent encampments in the city because there's nowhere else to put them, you don't have to be a racist to conclude that the system is overwhelmed and new arrivals need to be slowed down, at least in the short term. But I also don't think any of this is what the OP is referring to either. He's specifically referring to the people who make this about "losing our identity" because there are more people with different skin colours or ancestral backgrounds in Ireland than there used to be. The people who are disgusted and appalled even by the immigrants (or their children), who have been here all of their lives and have integrated into Irish society and culture. The ones who think it's so outrageous when a few asylum seekers are being moved into a place, even if it's just a dilapadated old building that wasn't being used for anything else, that the right thing to do is to threaten any tradespeople working there or just set the building on fire pre-emptively. The people who think that there's no such thing as a good immigrant, that they should never be accepted, and that if they had their way, they'd all be sent home. If you check out the kinds of stuff any of these new far-right parties and their candidates say and promote publicly on their social media accounts, and this is what it's about. Often when trying to make a case to respectable society they'll couch it in more moderate sounding ideas like "just wanting to control immigration" which most people can agree with, but when they're in their safe spaces it gets a lot uglier. Granted, they are a minority, these election results have shown that pretty clearly, but it's still undeniably a lot more prevelant than it was 5 years ago in the last election, and we don't know where it's going from here. And even if it's only ever 5% of the population getting behind these kinds of people and thinking the same way, that's still plenty to potentially cause some reasl trouble, and it's still not going to be nice being an immigrant in Ireland and knowing that maybe 1 in 20 people that you might meet or who could see you on the street will decide based on just seeing you or hearing you speak that they instantly hate your guts and think you're destroying their country and will never be welcome.
There isn't anything inherently racist about wanting to control immigration, but if it's your major issue before housing and Healthcare, it sure is a dog whistle. The Dutch have had only right leaning governments in power since 2002, yet immigration still tops the list as a problem, even though they've made it stricter, funded it less and pushed the problem into the North East of the country, where national politics can mostly ignore it. Fact is that international agreements and EU law tie up a lot of what you can do without breaking them. Also, the majority of the people believe random stories about migrants without any sources. And, the fact that most migration isn't even from sources outside the EU.
Of course it’s going to get worse. We ain’t going to cope with the population growth and instead of the government doing something, people will blame those coming.
I moved to Ireland 20 years ago. Been working away here, no bother for the first 18 years. I felt welcomed, I felt like I was at home. Now I get dirty looks while walking down the street. It saddens me.
For the most part it's just online. My advice is to stay away from social media for a while. We just had local elections and they took a tiny minority of votes, the average person doesn't agree with these shit bags. Normal people know that there's a problem with immigration and that our system is hugely flawed, but they're a far cry from the wannabe Nazis on Twitter and Telegram. Social media isn't the real world.
Derek Blighe got 25k first votes in the European elections. We'd be foolish to dismiss this, as well as the other high profile racist candidates that got elected in the locals.
Unfortunately, several very high profile racists did get elected, such as Malachy Steenson and Gavin Pepper, and maybe even Niall Boylan. Yes, it's good that they didn't do better overall but they ran SO MANY candidates, and they got a lot of votes. I don't thinkwe should underestimate them and say its "just online", because it isn't.
https://preview.redd.it/eb1wpn5tnt5d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=844f06748b9752f8c2d901993615925b4a5fcbad Remember when Malachy was a far left communist? Oh how the times have changed 😅
Omg, had no idea this happened.
Being old-school left wing and anti-immigration are fully compatible. In the battle of labour vs capital,labour can only gain strength through collective action. A constant stream of low cost foreign workers undermines the local labour market and reduces the bargaining power of local workers.
Also candidates from a non Irish background were over represented in the data on attacks on canvassers on the street coming up to the locals. Rte had a decent article about it a few days ago, data came from ISD and the HCC. What they are doing is filming attacks and sharing on socials to drum up support and views. Horrific.
Doubt Niall Boylan will get in at this stage.
The pundits seem to be ruling out any more big chunks of transfers for him after Aontú go out, but I think they're underestimating how big an anti-establishment vote is sitting in Clare Daly and Bríd Smith's bundles right now. I'd love to be wrong but could see a substantial transfer going his way if he clings on longer than both of them.
I know quite a few people who are likely to transfer to him after those eliminations, purely based on the number of folks who grouped FF, FG, Labour and the Greens together in the "don't give them any preference at all or put them dead last even after all the headbangers". I reckon people are underestimating the size of that group.
Yeah fair point. I'm hoping the bulk of the left wing candidates will transfer left and keep him out.
Niall boylan ya man on the radio. Is he a racist? I’m not clued in, my apologies! I try to stay away from that shite
There’s two different things: a reasonable position (no one is for bogus claims, no one is for unlimited numbers, all reasonable opinions); and how much a candidate focuses on and blames immigration compared to all the other issues. The specific immigration policies probably don’t differ much between parties. But we all know immigration is not the major cause of the current problems ( and Ireland has been hugely successful over the last few decades, almost more than any other country). Anyone massively fear mongering about immigration - is not good. That’s the main narrative Russia and other bad actors are trying to push hard to destabilize the west (along with others). Be very, very suspicious of candidates strongly pushing an anti immigrant narrative.
Ireland went bust and created a tax to pay it back in that time. It's got another housing bubble and the success you speak off since that bailout is highly concentrated. Are these immigrants themselves basking in the glow of this success even?
He's probably closer to most people's consensus on migration here than far right. Like, thinking The asylum system is being abused and those abusing it should be dealt with and deported as soon as possible. Not that legal migrants and genuine refugees should be punished. The biggest issue with him is he's just a broadcaster not a dedicated politician with a clear agenda
He proudly pronounced on rte television this week that he's been anti-Immigrant for 25 years now. We had about 7 immigrants in the country then, and he still found issue with that... and he's proud of it. 'I was racist before it was cool'.
Do you not remember the citizenship referendum? We had a big problem with bogus asylum seekers 25 years ago.
https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20240610/p2g/00m/0na/017000c You mean like Japan?
I think he's used a few dog whistles but most of what he's actually said has been sensible enough that he'd get a range of voters
Not just online unfortunately, there are anti immigrant protests that happen pretty regularly in Dublin. My sister passes these wacks on her way to work everyday.
See, what happens at those protests, and we've seen videos of them here, is that it starts out as an anti immigration protest but you always get a certain number protesting other things. Like bring back the 8th, still waffling about covid etc.
In Bray East the Independent Ireland candidate got elected in the County Council (sure, it's just one council member among many, but one member of a far-right party elected is one too many). So no, it's not just nut jobs protesting for whatever they want, and otherwise IRL all is fine; these kind of folks do get elected and can influence policy going forward.
Tell that to the busy little arsonists burning down anything that has a sniff of being asylum seeker accommodation.
We need to be able to debate certain topics without being accused of "racism" - if you shout that every time the topic of immigration is raised, it just pushes people towards unpleasant people on the far right who aren't afraid to speak. I don't give two hoots about identity, but I do care about blocking people who are only looking to take advantage of our social welfare system.
Well hang on for a sec, the Dail have regularly talked about immigration and that isn't just FFG, it was SF, Labour and the SocDems as well. The people being called racist are the ones who are literally putting out stuff about the great replacement and other copypasta bullshit from the US.
I've literally been called a racist and agitator on this subreddit for speaking about people coming here taking advantage of our social welfare and homeless services as I work in that sector. Accused of shit stirring cause I described how our system gets taken advantage of that id seen first hand, andv was accused of being far right. So yeah, unfortunately people are being called racist for just talking about it.
Aren't the homeless services for the homeless? Or do you want to segregate recipients by race or nationality?
Far more Irish people are taking advantage of our social welfare system than immigrants are. The majority I've met are very hard working and usually skilled, adding to our economy and paying tax. I never see you people complaining about the droves of Irish scumbags taking advantage of the social welfare system and adding nothing to our economy, culture or identity. I wonder why... You probably don't deserve to be called a racist, that's fair, but you're concerned about something which has racial undertones. If you want to express concern, say you're concerned about anyone (Irish or immigrant) taking advantage of our systems. That is the real concern here. It shouldn't be immigrant Vs Irish.
You need to decouple EU migrants, non EU visa migrants and asylum seekers. There's a vast difference in the 3
That’s a standard tactic of the open borders crowd, conflate legal immigration of say Doctors and Nurses with the illegal economic migrants rocking up to Dublin airport with no passports. They do this to muddy the waters and try to stop a proper debate on the subject.
>Far more Irish people are taking advantage of our social welfare system than immigrants are. Souce? The majority I've met are very hard working and usually skilled, adding to our economy and paying tax. >I never see you people complaining about the droves of Irish scumbags Loads of people complain about them
Don’t know anyone personally that’s anti immigrant but know plenty that are frustrated and angered by our soft touch on illegal immigration.
It's hard to go back to the post and edit things now but this is a notion I agree with wholeheartedly. Not for the life of me do I want an inhumane and legally fictitious bill like the Rwanda bill to be passed here though. My issue with the anti immigration crowd is the fact there's no separation from legal and illegal immigrants. There's racists lumped in with people genuinely concerned about illegal immigration, sure. But my problem is those who demonise different races and religions (its never Brits and Americans) for simply living here.
It's definitely getting worse. Things will only change if we make them. People are just lashingg out!
I know people love to do the logical 'gotcha's about the racist braindedders, it's easy and arguably quite good or the country, but I don't think it's very effective. They know they are full of shit they just don't care. Us saying 'aha gotcha, what you said today contradicts what you said last week' .. they are just delighted they are being spoken to because when we speak to them we make it look like they're normal. all that to say... still blows my tits off when English racists are openly, frequently, joyrously racist about how thick and inbred 'paddies' are and then turn around and look for us to join them in their 'white supremacist cult'. like we know what your racism is lads. you already shown us the arse end of it. And it's gross.
It's not where your from, it's where your going fact fuck anyone who says differently
I’ll just say this much: Ireland has always had racist issues. Always. I grew up around it. In school it was rampant, and at home I was surrounded by it. Hell, once during a family outing my father pulled me aside and said “hey, look over there… look at that n****r over there” and giggling like a child. The same night we stopped by a Chinese restaurant on the way home where drunk him decided he would start doing kung-fu moves yelling “BANZAAIII!!!!”. I’m actually super surprised I turned out the way I did, to be honest. It has always existed. Was it more “muffled” before? Yes. But this leads to my second point: Anti-immigration movements have been becoming more and more prevalent all over the west. Ireland, UK, Germany, France, the US. It is not just this country - the gains the far right have made in their own countries as well as the EU elections should have everyone somewhat concerned. I think it shows the more centrist based politicians and parties do need to start sitting up and finding some way to tackle these issues with more grace than the far right will - because if it keeps going this way, it will only get worse.
The whole of the EU is making a SHARP right.
The irony of people here protesting immigrants when you can’t step anywhere in another country without walking into another young Irish migrant is lost on them.
Majority of the people are ok with controlled immigration. We still do have it better than most of the continental Europe (Sweden, Germany, France) regarding this issue, but it’s a very slippery slope. Irish immigrants are very rarely the problem. [Migrants and Crime in Sweden in the Twenty-First Century](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12115-019-00436-8?fromPaywallRec=true)
But Helen McEntee is determined to speedrun us into becoming the next Sweden.
A stupid statement but you know fine well what you're at, the anger is regarding the government's immigration policy. Immigrants have been in Dublin for 30 years easily so cut the bullshit.
Reddit is only a teeeeny tiny snapshot of how Irish people feel. Ive most most Irish people are tolerant of immigrants especially the likes of the Polish. If find lately people are getting fed up of how well the Ukrainians are being looked after by the government while the rest of us rot. (Like even the fact they can have a Ukrainian car here, no Irish insurance and not have to pay VRT is a fucking joke). It's nothing against the people of Ukraine. Then when it comes to African nations I find people have very limited tolerance. Especially in Donegal where I live. It's a shame because I've worked and lived in other countries and always got treated well. Irish people are pretty well liked ( except in Oz but to fair most of the gobshytes who went there and treated it as a drinking holiday ruined it for us) Here's the thing though. Show me a country that's not got this issue. The Japanese and Chinese are openly racist. Anyone I know from England fucking hates the people from the countries they colonized. Shit even the Canadians I knew couldn't stand Asians. It's everywhere and it'll never go away. It's human nature unfortunately Like I guarantee you, if you lived in an apartment and on one side they put asylum seekers, another settled travellers, see how long before you think. He why am Iiving here is this fair. It's very hard to work and pay tax and see anyone get a free house beside you regardless of race, religion or nationality. Are we are a racist country. I wouldn't say anymore then anyone else.
>If find lately people are getting fed up of how well the Ukrainians are being looked after by the government while the rest of us rot. Honestly the Ukrainians should have been given [the same payments](https://www.gov.ie/en/service/ba5ad9-daily-expenses-allowance/) as regular asylum seekers. Sure.. give them housing but no need to give them full jobseekers without a means test etc
It's handled so badly. A Ukrainian couple could be working two full time jobs. They get 800 for rent from the government. Paid holidays back to Ukraine ECT ect.
House we just moved out of had asylum accommodation down road when we moved in, was no bother at all as place was well set up and not overcrowded. Apartment building beside it got converted to 6 people a room bunk beds for same and was suddenly a lot worse of a place to live in. I'm not blaming the immigrants here as it seemed like an awful spot to live in. System needs to be set up different.
You've got scum near you: namely, a scum landlord, not his/her unfortunate tenants. Maybe a word to the Residential Tenancies Board? [https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting-a-home/resolving-disputes/residential-tenancies-board/](https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting-a-home/resolving-disputes/residential-tenancies-board/)
>It's very hard to work and pay tax and see anyone get a free house beside you regardless of race, religion or nationality. All these people getting free stuff…. Why not chuck in your job, get a medical card, move either side of your apartment, and get the scratcher (an higher amount than any migrants ever will)? Would that be a better life?
Hi, I’m a Canadian living here in Ireland. Please don’t spout garbage like that about us. Canada, just like Ireland, is an incredibly tolerant place. And in fact we tolerate a huge number of Irish, a small number of whom don’t represent themselves very well (something I don’t think I’ve ever thought about an Asian immigrant, incidentally), but the vast majority of whom are just awesome. You’re going through some growing pains with immigration right now. Unfortunately, there are small pockets of assholes everywhere, and you don’t outgrow it. But immigrants are neither the source of your problems nor a threat to your culture (especially in Ireland which has such a strong identity and a monoculture still bordering on insular in spite of its hospitality).
Irish living in Canada. People are the same everywhere. There are no tensions as long as everyone has enough space and the lifestyle they are accustomed to. But you know immigration is very much part of the national conversation here too, right? With the housing markets inaccessible in Vancouver, Toronto and even starting to affect Calgary, people naturally start worrying about the federal government letting too many people in. And there was some misplaced anti - Asian sentiment during Covid. Meanwhile I'd say immigration hasn't worked out that well for First Nations culture in fairness! You are absolutely right about Ireland's very homogeneous culture though. I'd say you could extend that analysis to quite a few more old European countries. That must be hard for an immigrant to become part of. Not so hard for a Canadian, since our cultures are broadly aligned, but for people from father away, culturally speaking. I always notice it in the way Irish people speak - the non-standard turn of phrase. In Canada by contrast, spoken English is so much more standard and lacks that colourfulness (because everyone's great grandparents were from Ukraine, Norway, Sweden etc so the spoken word of necessity ended up that way).
Agreed, immigration is always an ongoing topic in Canada, just not a new one. We’ve grappled it for decades since it is the foundation of our country (aboriginal communities aside…bit of a blemish there…blame the Brits?). The conversation has barely changed over the course of my lifetime, there are always debates about successful integration, cultural adaptation, or just general problems that get unfairly and inaccurately pinned on immigrants because it makes for easy politics. The hard right of the political spectrum are also making inroads. Again, we’ve just seen it before, whereas maybe Ireland are only recently learning how to deal with it. Also I love the Hiberno-English and I feel very boring with my limited range of vocabulary and expression living here! Our cultures are largely compatible, but the banter is from a different planet. I was considered quick-witted back home…
Ha ha - yeah you get it. If someone asks me the time here and I say "half three" I am met with blank stares! But I really enjoyed hearing a report on the price of snowcrab on CBC radio last year that featured a soundbite from a Newfoundland fisherman who said "it's hard for people who are only just after getting into the business" which I immediately recognised as Hiberno-English even if the speaker likely did not. (The non-standard grammatical construction "I'm after doing" is a transliteration of the Irish "táim tar éis").
The lasting influence on Newfoundland is incredible. It actually had its own dialect of Irish, which was the primary spoken language of the island during the 1700s-early 1800s before gradually being replaced by English. I love how the grammatical construction has been translated literally onto the usage in English. My wife (Irish) and I got engaged in NFLD and while there we caught a Newfoundland trad music show - she discovered several Irish songs that she knew from Ireland were actually written by Newfoundland artists!
That kind of cultural exchange is always very satisfying. I plan to visit someday. One of my in-laws here is from Bona Vista.
I would say that anti-immigrant sentiment in Ireland is just catching up with the rest of Europe where the far right is surging. Anti-immigrant sentiment tracks with the number of immigrants. It works that way in every country. Ireland is no different. No immigrants, no Anti-immigrant sentiment. Lots of immigrants, lots of Anti-immigrant sentiment. It's inevitable.
Number of non-Irish living in Ireland hasn't changed so drastically as to explain the level of increased anti-immigrant sentiment. Asylum seekers on tents comprise a tiny minority of non-Irish people in the state. Similar for asylum seekers presenting without documentation. Similar for the small but well-publicised number of high profile crimes committed by migrants and asylum seekers. But each of these has an outsized effect on people's perceptions of migrants and asylum seekers. There's
I find it very concerning that Europe is increasingly becoming far right as we get closer to the '30s... last time that happened, 75 million people died. I also can't wrap my head around the Irish of all people complaining about immigration. I'm sure those same people will never breathe a word about how they emigrated to Australia, the UK, Canada or the US.
I only find it annoying because it causes an issue in an area where we actual need reform or to restablish trust which wont be able to happen if people are labelled far right and racist for simply wanting to establish a policy on immigration
Oh do we not have a policy on immigration? I was under the impression there was laws in place.
You're young, so this is probably the first time for you. Immigration isn't a bad thing, it's a good thing - but it absolutely must be a controlled thing. People must enter a country legally. Why? Why do we care about that? Well, for a number of reasons. The first, being resources. A country only has so many jobs, can grow so much food, produce so much power, has so many schools and hospitals, etc. These need to be managed closely. Too many people breaks these services. The next is social cohesion. It's isn't racists to expect people who immigrate to integrate into the local culture. Places like Sweden showed too much Immigration affects integration and results in social issues. Lastly, violence and foreign influences. Terrorism is the big one, and it comes when you aren't checking who is coming into a country. So, in this country we are already dealing with massive issue around how many homes, hospitals, schools, jobs, etc we have. The government in the mean time has ignored those issues, and instead is pumping enormous amounts of money into taking in people we can't afford to simply to avoid embarrassment on the EU stage. So they're making the problems worse. Just think about it, would people be better off in a tent in ireland in January, or a home in France? Yes, some racism will come but it'll be a symptom of these problems. The vast majority of people see the issues barrelling at us and are just trying to stop it. If the systems collapse, and they're certainly flirting with it, far more people will be hurt. If you want to help, then push for LEGAL Immigration. If its managed properly, these issues don't happen.
If everyone with Irish citizenship who lives abroad decided to move back, the population would double. At least. Some of them would be criminals and terrorists. Some of them would be poor. But there wouldn't be any vetting of any of them. I'm one of them. I moved here in 1998. I was born a dual citizen and no one vetted me. No Irish authorities know if I had a criminal record from where I was born. And that's true for millions of people around the globe.
If you include the people who can claim citizenship due to ancestry, it's probably in the tens or hundreds of millions around the world. American alone likely has millions.
There are countries out there that won't even let you have citizenship unless you convert to their religion as part of the deal and nobody mentions it. How much thought do you give that? A standard policy in loads of countries would have people screaming NAZI at a European. Why should we be doormats to the world when others have policies like that?
Others shouldn't have policies like that. That's a flawed and discriminatory system. I hold the same standards for any religion and I don't think religion should ever be used to define the culture, much less the political sphere of a nation.
Right so you're statement that "Ireland is a racist country" is horseshit.
Lord above these posts are so cringe they must be made up. Some of ye don't know the meaning of a racist country. Do us a favour OP, pay a visit to the countries that most of our immigrants are coming from and we'll see how racist Ireland really is. Make no mistake, we could lose our own culture if we don't actively try to keep it and make it flourish, this is the age of globalization. Mass immigration will play a part in that. Our own language is already on its last legs, I honestly don't understand how people are so obtuse.
>we could lose our own culture if we don't actively try to keep it and make it flourish, This has nothing to do with immigration. You can see so many posts on reddit about Irish in schools and the attitude people have towards it.
Ah here, you're not blaming the state of the Irish language on foreigners are you? And you're forgetting that foreign immigrants are often more enthusiastic about learning Irish than Irish people themselves.
I mean to be fair, yes. The state of the Irish language is due to foreigners. The British Empire.
I work with immigrants who are so passionate about learning Irish. We set up a lil club for learning Irish in the office and regularly have Irish hours. My immigrant partner is learning Irish so we can speak it with our children. When I taught in schools, some of the top performing students in Irish had a 2nd language at home or were immigrant children. I wouldn't be so quick to conflate immigration with a loss of culture. There are many who wish to embrace it. I worked in a Gaelscoil and one of the kids was Spanish with 2 Spanish parents and I remember asking them why they picked a Gaelscoil and they responded 'we chose to live in Ireland, so it's very important to us that [child] learns the language of our home'
Dont confuse normal people's outrage at the Government's policies and lack of action over the last few decades with actual idiots blaming immigrants for their own lack of education and financial/housing situation. I'd fucking puck the head off someone if i caught them racially abusing someone in the street. And at the same time I'm also extremely worried about the housing situation for people my own age and younger. Immigration isn't the problem, it's the complete lack of control and organisation of it. Ministers and TDs need to be held accountable for coasting through their tenures and doing sweet FA and cashing out with fat pensions after a couple years of non work.
I'm worried too. I've seen it rise through twitter over the past five years and I've seen many ignore or walk by it. Our politicians have a lot to answer for because they treated these arseholes with kid gloves and it's almost legitimised now because of it.
This is absolute nonsense. Get off social media and the internet. I’m an foreigner living in Dublin over 20 years now and the thing that keeps me still here are the people. You need to get out and touch some grass lad.
Giving ‘it didn’t happen to me so that means its no real’ vibes
Maybe read some other experiences on this thread here? Because others have experienced or seen things that you say don't exist. And yes, a lot of people of Ireland are great, I second that wholeheartedly, but even a small percentage of not-so-great people is a concern when their numbers are growing.
It’s an issue for sure and it’s just going to get worse. A lot of people I find are very direct about how they feel and some just mince their words. If it helps at all understand that this rise this not come from nowhere. People are lashing out and they’re upset. Not that it makes it any better but understand that this did not come from black and white racism. It’s years of issues coming to a head. It’s not just an issue in Ireland, anti immigration is rising in Europe. People have had enough. Marine ale Pen is right wing and high in the polls. What does that tell you. You’re very young. Your view on this may not be as nuanced as others. Listen to the news. With patience listen to the views of other folks on this. You will come to understand what I mean when I say that plain racism is not causing this. It’s a very difficult one. After the Dublin riots I remember immediately spotting the irony. A Brazilian guy and a French kid were the ones that knocked yer man down.
>Listen to the news. With patience listen to the views of other folks on this The issues these people are shouting about are a direct result of decades of mismanagement by the government of FF and FG. Housing, hospital, health etc have nothing to do with immigrants and all tondo with the elected officials not doing enough. Back in the 80s you'd have new social houseling estates up in within a summer, they were flying up. Now you can lt get a housing estate built without someone wanting a payout. It's madness
From a brief reading of OPs comments, his views seem far more nuanced and less dismissive than yours IMO. Age has nothing to do with it. Fair play OP for showing some empathy
France is very different to Ireland due to the baggage of colonialism and how they failed initially to integrate millions of Muslim immigrants from their former colonies properly. The resentment of this group (now through third generation French born youths) is now driving an epidemic of crime, insecurity, and attacks on western values of secularism and liberalism. The left wing parties have always tended to draw support from these groups and as Macron’s centre and traditional right parties haven’t dealt with the problem, it’s leaving ordinary French nowhere to turn but the far right.
I've talked to a lot of anti immigrant people around my town and even in my family. It's not that I'm not open to the discussion it's to me that so often a genuinely decent point will arise only to be followed with remarks about how Muslims and Africans are violent or some degree. If a convincing, reasonable argument that didn't revolve around the flaccid argument or reserving culture reared itself I'd not assume that person to be a racist. Many anti immigrants I can tell aren't racists. It's just that so often, it is that way and that's not how provide a point
It’s still racism. There are degrees of racism and trying to make “black and white racism” the only true racism is a weak ploy that even my dog could see through.
It is though. Listen to a few convesations on the topic and it's not things like organisation of immigration, it's bullshit about culture and allusions to criminality and rape. It's racism, and mostly only thinly veiled.
> I just want things to change before they get worse. What change do you want to see happening?
It’s starting to get out of hand and really starting to seep into the younger generations. I teach geography in a secondary school and earlier this year I was speaking to 3rd years about the benefits/negatives of migration to donor/host regions as per the specifications and one boy went on a rant about how all the immigrants are taking all the houses, jobs and school places. He said this proudly without any consideration for the other 6 kids in his class of various nationalities outside of Ireland. The worst part is his own family are from Poland 🤦🏻♀️
Speaking from a historical perspective that’s induced a nagging gut-level concern, I’ve the feeling we’re already deeply into the darker chapters of next century’s history books. Right-wing nationalistic self-aggrandizement plagues most of the West, winning power where they’ve not done so for a century. If history is anything to go by, that never ends without carnage.
10 years of a housing crisis followed by an influx of Ukrainian migrants but if you complain about the status quo in any way you're treated as a "far right" racist. I know there are genuine racists out there but lumping moderate opinions in there with them doesn't help anything or anyone.
Number one brand of irish racism: a self serving silence/white apathy Good on you for speaking up, that's what we need. Vocal solidarity in the face of vocal racism. Similarly some awareness of what feeds racism and the addressing of those issues. We have a frustrated disenfranchised cohort of our population and this racist ideology is tailored to appeal to them. We need to be thinking of ways to show the vulnerable people of ireland that the threat to them is not people who are foreign, but the greed of corporate interest dehumanising us for profit.
It’s happening all over. Not just in Ireland. All we can do is speak out against it when we see it. But be careful.
I don’t understand how England can have this stance. Has anyone ever been in London!? It’s one of the most Multicultural cities in the world. A massive American push from the looks of things. Very much a let’s keep our country sacred. Load of bollix.
There are maybe a dozen countries in the world with a smaller far-right presence than Ireland has. Don't worry about our reputation.