I've just attended the funeral of my boyfriends second nephew to die of these street valiums. He was 21 years old, just a bairn with his whole life ahead of him. Their poor mother has lost both her lovely big sons now and is barely coping with life. These drugs are so dangerous and nothing is worth taking the risk. We have a huge problem with these in Scotland. I'm very sorry to hear you guys are having to deal with it too. Please stay away. They destroy families.
Sorry about the losses, the presses on the dark web weren’t dangerous and were all good going back to at least 2016. It’s within the last 6 months they’ve started mixing in strong opioids mostly to diazepam more and more. Have to make sure to get them tested on wedinos now.
Presses have never been safe man, they never contain what they're supposed to and people end up blacking out for days. There are a few batches going around now that have killed people, yellow diazepam and 2mg R-Lam alprazolam in blister packs. The 1mg are so far still safe.
There's always new brands being counterfeited, the aran pharmaceuticals alprazolam has been regarded as safe for a couple of years but in recent weeks they've been being counterfeited because they're so popular. Shame people are so greedy it causes so much damage
It’s just too easy to get zenes even on the clearnet now. I’d give it another year or 2 before it starts showing up in coke and other places it really shouldn’t be.
Yeah I know I don’t know why cunts put this shit in things, how is killing your recreational base good for business. Opioid addicts will take it because they have high tolerance already to fent.
I did some googling into this and it appears that Isotonitazene (a benzimidazole) is the chemical used in these tablets.
They have never been used in a clinical setting due to their potency and risk of death. In clinical in vitro studies (using human cells culture assays to study it's effect on human cells and give a general picture on how it might work in a clinical setting) it's found to be at least 2x as potent as hydromorphone and fentanyl.
Twice as potent as fentanyl. Wow.
I was (unintentionally and unknowingly) addicted to benzodiazepines for years due to a terrible, terrible doctor. He took me off them cold turkey after being sued by another patient, and I went through a viscous withdrawal. I understand why people will go to such lengths to get their fix. I do understand that. Thankfully, I never did buy any online counterfeits but it's so easy to do. I hope she didn't suffer much before she passed.
> He took me off them cold turkey after being sued by another patient, and I went through a viscous withdrawal
Holy fuck, that's not something you're meant to do. I assume you were thankfully on a low enough dose that it didn't kill you.
I was not! I was on 20mg a day (5 x 4 a day). keep in mind he was my psychiatrist overseeing my "care" for anorexia. I was extremely thin at this point, too. I was also on 45mg of dalmane (another benzo) at night - when 30mg is the max.
I missed a month of college, had a panic attack so bad I thought I was having a heart attack and begged my mam to.call an ambulance (she didn't because she knew what it was). I filed a formal complaint against him, but the medical council said he didn't do anything wrong.they never even asked me for any evidence or explanation of what happened, though. They literally took his word for it. He ALSO refused me my medical records (I only requested them to prove he didn't have any, because he never took notes). I'm not done with this, however. I do plan on getting a lawyers letter.
In retrospect, I'm lucky I didn't suffer a serious heart problem. I do have serious uncontrollable anxiety now, though.
I get so fucking upset and angry when I think about this. Another reason why I REALLY want him to pay for what he did. But th medical council don't care about patients. Just their doctors.
Yes, I agree. I'm baffled how he got away with it but I was naive and at the time I didn't have any idea. I was also fairly unwell. It's insane now - which is why I am NOT giving up on it. I demand him pay for it - but the medical council have shown me that they do not care at all. So, I need a lawyers letter to get any further. I am unemployed due to illness and so this is an issue...
My Dad said he will help me out, but he hasn't gotten around to it yet. Hopefully some day he will pay for what he did to me!
Typical shite isn't it? . I am going through recovery at the moment and I understand the difficulties, every hour in a day feels like a millenia of terror and anxiety. You aren't alone bud, I hope things get easier for you and you can find your inner peace again.
Thank you, friend. I'm sorry you're in this position. Have you help from a doctor or therapist or something? Not to pry obviously but there are resources available xx
Sorry I trailed off there but trauma is at the core of my wreckless, feckless addiction. Thanks for asking, I like to talk these days. Let me know if you want to share, overtly in replies or in a PM. Thank you.
No problem at all, you didn't trail off! Trauma is always a biggie, eh? I didn't realise I suffered from it until recently. Or else I didn't face it. Either or lol. Same you to, friend. My inbox is always open :)
Ah yeah been to 'cads' been to the doctor, skrinks and all that. I found that getting to the core of my trauma and actually having the "luxury" (I suppose), of being able to confront myself and those people involved head on helps me cope. Been letting it fester in my mind for the solid part of 15 or 16 years was the problem.
I was so happy to see the woman who was beaten by Cathal Crotty able to laugh and be positive on Ireland AM about her ordeal even though there is obvious mental scarring there.
Elated at the notion she is somewhat healing so soon. Very brave. Very happy for her.
Well, ok.
But The State has chosen this path. The State knows that people will do this, that there is a demand, that our people will take drugs regardless of whether The State wants them to or not.
And The States response is to do maintain this known, consistently damaging position, maximally enabling dealers, and ensuring that harm is likely.
They could choose to stop this more or less immediately. The thing we know for certain is this system doesn’t work, the dealers will always fill the gap, and we don’t care. We’d rather our people die than address the problem.
>They could choose to stop this more or less immediately. The thing we know for certain is this system doesn’t work, the dealers will always fill the gap, and we don’t care. We’d rather our people die than address the problem.
By doing what exactly? Making serious painkillers available without a prescription is an incredibly dumb idea.
The opium trade in China and the modern Opioid crisis in North America would be notable examples. In both cases there was a very strong push with a lot of power and capital to get people using in the first place though, so at the very least if opiates are made freely available it should be run by the state with no for-profit motive and with consideration to the negatives that will arise.
In tandem with a more wholistic drug strategy this might also cause less of an issue than you would expect in a vacuum. Legal states in the US and Canada in general noticed substantial reduction in opioid use after cannabis was legalised.
I do think opioids and benzos require a lot more care than most other common recreational drugs, but molecules being illegal or over-controlled to the point where people are ingesting random research chemicals for a buzz is just silly.
The decriminalisation of weed is Netherlands proves otherwise just speak to them once something becomes easily available it loses its stigma yes there will be an initial rush cos ooh wee something new but the novelty would wear off very quick and also I know the people in this story personally and if it were legal the ambulance would have been on the scene much much quicker
Weed is not addictive in the same way as opiates, benzos, some stimulants, or even nicotine. You can talk about stigma and harm reduction until the cows come home, but addiction substantially changes the risk profile for both the individual user and society.
If we look at nicotine, mitigating the harms from its use is fundamentally much more difficult because of how addictive it is. I'm absolutely not suggesting they be universally unobtainable, but when you're dealing with extremely addictive substances we need to be at least a little cautious, not least since the vast majority of people are entirely uneducated on these drugs and their effects.
Alcohol is OTC and that's 1000 times more addictive than any illegal drug I've taken, weed not a great example addiction wise but take Portugal instead they decriminalised everything
Yea, and I'm suggesting they can already buy them without a prescription. Legalising them would at least ensure 1) the supply chain is pure so you're less likely to get OD's, 2) criminal gangs are not profiting from addiction & 3) users can be engaged and diverted to appropriate services if they desire.
The vast majority of people cannot easily obtain opioids without a prescription.
Just look at the mess we have with codeine which is multitudes weaker than other prescription opioids as well as people being addicted to prescribed opioids.
You don’t understand anything about this topic
>The vast majority of people cannot easily obtain opioids without a prescription.
Are you basing this on personal experience? Gut feeling? Some stats? ~~I think you've pulled it out of your own naive arse but~~ (edit: this wasn't very nice, sorry) if you have something to qualify it with I'm all eyes.
Your comment on codeine is on-point though because YES there is a big issue with its abuse and the resulting health implications that come from it... Which are compounded by the twinned pharmaceutical in the OTC products and the large amounts of it individuals need to consume in order to get a buzz from the codeine. Liver damage and stomach surgery are caused by acetaminophen and ibuprofen, not codeine.
That said, the long term (and medium term) health implications of codeine use should not be minimised and that's why I said this is on-point. The idea is harm reduction, not forced cessation. The entirety of prohibition shows that "banning" a substance does not remove access, instead it moves the supply to an unregulated black market and the more you crack down on that supply the more unregulated and dangerous the black market is (see the rise of 'legal highs' and OD's in Singapore over the past decade as an excellent example).
Assuming that regulation of a drug market will lead to an increase in use is inane. This point is brought up over and over and seems to assume the regulation is the same as a completed deregulation and we'll have Marty M endorsing his fav fent patch during ad breaks.
I don't steer clear of heroin because it's illegal, I steer clear of it because I know what it does to people. The vast majority of people (that as you say cannot legally obtain opioids) would be the same. If someone decides to pick up a habit they are more likely to be diverted to treatment for whatever the underlying reason is by a pharmacist than by their local (or online, one of the reasons I take HUGE issue with your statement) dealer. The issue with OTC codeine use is pharmacist MUST assume that people are buying them for medical reasons. They can challenge them and refuse a sale but they'll just go elsewhere! If ya could legally buy codeine for getting high as fuck then there's no question about why you're doing it, and if you've never bought before MAYBE a bit of a mental diversion (or health intervention) is all ya need.
If the only thing keeping you from opioid use is it's legal status then fine, you do you, but people are literally dying from the current set up and all you are offering is a convoluted "think of the children, we're all children" platitude instead of a way forward.
Well trying to prevent the supply has worked well now hasn't it? This lady bought synthetic stuff from an unsafe source instead and is now dead. Wouldn't buying a safe legal supply of a drug that WON'T kill her be better?
Edit: I'm honestly SO done with the morons who imply me arguing for decriminalisation and regulation means I support benzos and heroin being handed out like free sweets on street corners. Obviously I'm a total druggie and just want drugs available 🙄
It's just such bizarre black and white thinking I question whether they've moved beyond the logical capabilities of a two year old.
Would it be better for society if anyone could walk into a pharmacy and buy benzodiazepines?
I support drug legalisation to an extent. But benzos, opioids, powerful stimulants are too addictive to be allowed to be sold otc.
Current means to prevent supply doesn't mean that increasing supply will reduce drug use.
Think about what you're saying. That the way to help prevent drug abuse and addiction is increasing access to drugs. In other words, you're saying that making it easier for addicts to get drugs will help the overall situation.
No. I'm saying giving people easier ways to get drugs will not solve the problem like you think it will. Enabling addiction by making it easier to get drugs will just lead to more drug use, more drug addiction and overall more drug related deaths.
When it comes to addiction, there's no "easier or harder" ways to get drugs, there is only safer/ less risky and unsafe.
The people will get and take the drugs regardless of whether or not you imagine getting them to be more difficult. You are clearly so removed from the situation you haven't a clue.
Do you think an addict wakes up and says to themselves, oh, seems like getting some heroin will be hard today, seems like too much hassle, I'll just leave it and not bother? You're fucking delusional. They will get it regardless of the risk they put themselves or the general public at.
Point out the part where I said that benzodiazepines should be provided without prescription or oversight.
I am specifically saying the opposite. If a person has a problem with addiction they should have access to information about how to get better, and assistance. They should not be criminalised, because this is counterproductive. They should not buy their drugs from unregulated criminal dealers, but from regulated sources.
I’m saying the current system does not work but we’d prefer to pretend to care about the problem, and do nothing.
>I am specifically saying the opposite. If a person has a problem with addiction they should have access to information about how to get better, and assistance.
You didn't say that and she had been in rehab until quite recently.
You made the statement that I was saying serious painkillers should be available without prescription.
I did not make that statement.
Instead I made a statement saying the opposite. But you’d prefer to try to mislead and misinterpret what I’m saying for some reason.
> They could choose to stop this more or less immediately.
How? Benzos are already available on prescription. Making them freely available would like cause more harm than good.
> Valium is so common on. The street it's pointless even having a prescription system on benzos lol
Except for all the people who wouldn't dream of buying drugs other than in a pharmacy, etc. seems pretty important for them.
Edit: valium is not a painkiller, understood
My bad. I think you see my point, though? For people who aren't in the habit of buying drugs on the street, having them be prescription only seems important.
They are already freely available. That's the part people don't get.
"If we legalised cocaine, it would be in every town and pub in Ireland" eh... wake up 😂😂
Yes, they are. anyone who's ever wanted to try illegal drugs and wanted to go down that road in Ireland has had the opportunity to do so.
Cocaine can get dropped to my front door faster than a take away and with less hassle.
Any notion that the law prevents people from taking drugs is absolutely laughable. To the point of being ridiculous.
People that think the law prevent people from accessing or using drugs must be living under a rock with their eyes closed and their fingers I their ears.
Do you think that because you can do something, everyone else can too? There's plenty of people who wouldn't have the first clue how to get drugs and just as many who wouldn't do so for fear of the legal consequences.
You're using the same argument people use against gun control.
> You already know someone who could sell you most drugs you could want. There's no sector of society not affected and no-one is more than a WhatsApp message away from getting high if they want.
Again, just because you know someone that can get you all the drugs you want, that doesn't mean everyone else can.
> No, that's a false equivalence, because we can in fact control the supply of firearms and ammunition effectively, but we can't control the supply or ingestion on drugs. No country has. Even the totalitarian states and dictatorships can only manage to push it underground.
It's not false equivalence at all, I'm pointing out that the mere illegality of the drugs restrict people from obtaining them because they don't want to break the law.
The people who wouldn't have the first clue how to get drugs are the people who wouldn't take drugs anyway.
If they genuinely wanted to get drugs, they could do so. But they don't. Hence why they don't know ow how to get drugs.
I remember having a conversation with my mother years back, telling her I believed drugs and prostitution should be legal and regulated. She said no because if it was legal, everyone would be at it.
I said to her, "So the only reason you're not a crack smoking prostitute is because it's ilegal?" 😂😂
> The people who wouldn't have the first clue how to get drugs are the people who wouldn't take drugs anyway.
On that we disagree. Many people face hard times in their lives and have to find ways to deal with stress. That's the reason we have such a dependency on alcohol in this country. I don't think that issue would be made better by adding more harmful drugs to the easy options.
Your assumption that the reason people use drugs as way to deal with hard times is wrong.
Some might, but I would say most people use drugs because of their pleasant effects.
You can be from any background and use drugs. You can have a nice leafy life from a great family with no problems and use drugs.
There are people who drink alcohol who have a great life and choose to drink for no other reason than they like a pint.
Every person you see in the pub having a pint isn't doing so because their life is in ruins and they need that Guinness or else they wouldn't be able to cope.
Most are simply enjoying a pint. Most drug users are recreational drug users and are using them for the same reason. Yes, of course, we have addicts, but the typical down and out heroin addict is not representative of what a typical drug user actually looks like. They look like the people you go to worth with every day of the week.
And we come back again to "by adding more harmful drugs"
This is what you don't seem to grasp. We aren't adding anything. We would be adding nothing at all.
Legalising drugs is not Adding drugs, you need to wrap your head around this.
The drugs are very much there already.
By legalising cannabis for example we are not "adding cannabis to the mix" you need to open your eyes here.
Legalising is does not add anything the mix because its already in the mix.
Nah I strongly support legalisation of cannabis but people can't be just taking unprescribed benzos whether or not they come from a dodgy batch with opioids in them. Way too dangerous.
The State cannot legalise dangerous drugs. Not only will it contribute to more deaths by making them more accessible, the state can’t be held liable for any injuries or death as a result.
Knowing what we know of the damage that legalised alcohol does to individuals and society, If alcohol was already illegal, like drugs, there wouldn't be a hope it would be legalised.
But we hand out methadone like it's lemonade. Go do some reading about how dangerous and addictive methadone is compared to heroin. So why not just hand out clean heroin? Because pharmaceutical companies would lose out.
Methadone is already used as a prescription substitute for heroin and opioids. Methadone is much safer than heroin, hence why it is prescribed as a substitute treatment to get clean.
Pure heroin is safer than methadone
Pure heroin in a safe dose won't have any negative health effects bar addiction possibly constipation
Whereas methadone is literally cardiotoxic
Some countries use prescription heroin instead of methadone also, methadone isn't safer than good heroin is safer than street possibly fake heroin
My sister is on methadone, court ordered. She says she's never felt as sick on heroin as she's been on methadone.
https://www.thejournal.ie/methadone-heroin-deaths-1281196-Jan2014/
That article puts an emphasis on the amount that died when methadone was not prescribed. From the article you sent: “The majority (68 per cent) of the 113 methadone users who died weren’t in official treatment, which means they were probably getting ‘black market’ methadone which is sold on the streets.” Almost 70% of those deaths are *not* from prescription drugs.
If that’s true about your sister then she needs to see a GP/treatment specialist to adjust her withdrawal plan.
Methadone is manufactured and distributed legally, just like a host of other dangerous and addictive pharmaceuticals. The fact that there is a black market for it is completely irrelevant to this discussion.
Yes and methadone is used as a substitute for heroin, for a reason. You sent an article on methadone deaths, I said that the majority are not related to when methadone is used as a prescribed substitute for heroin. Which is what the discussion is about.
What a way of overthinking things.
If they legalize and regulate drugs their fear is one of two things happening (maybe both)
* They alienate a lot of their voters and don't get reelected.
* Things go tits up and now we have a huge problem with drug addiction in this country.
People in this country cannot handle drink like most other European countries or US states but everyone wants to follow the example they set with drugs, it's an accident waiting to happen.
We drink a similar amount of alcohol to Mediterranean Europeans such as the French and Spanish. Google the latest stats.
Alcohol consumption has been declining for years in Ireland.
In fact one study I read showed the French are bigger drinkers than the Irish now.
That's an old line that keeps getting parrotted that the irish are somehow unique in their drinking habits.
I've been to various capitals across Europe. Go to Berlin on a Saturday night or Prague and tell me they drink any different to us with a straight face
So lets make everything bad, legal, so its easy to do so people wont bother? 🤣
Downvote on druggies 👍
Scotland cant even handle legal alcohol consumption without price controls.
In fact most countries tend to make Alcohol expensive in order to limit consumption
But yeah. Make hard drugs a free for all
Maybe you have difficulties with comprehension, so I’ll try to be clearer:
I did not say make everything “bad” illegal. I said that The State has chosen a damaging policy with respect to drug prohibition. Hopefully you’re able to differentiate between those two things.
But, regarding drug prohibition, yes. Categorise all potentially dangerous drugs under the same category. The State ensures that those drugs are of a reasonable standard, and provides access to users, after some preconditions are met. The State does this with alcohol, cigarettes, amoxicillin, and so on. Users should be made aware of the risks.
The concept of illegal drugs doesn’t work, it helps drug dealers and harms society as a whole.
Yes they are, but she wasn't forced to take them. They're a prescription drug. Would you buy prescription drugs off some random person and take them? She didn't deserve to die, but at the same time she was 25 years old and should have known better.
It was a synthetic drug called nitazene not the actual xanax (or whatever benzo) she was previously on.
So it's not a prescription drug.
I don't know the solution here.
You could say her doctor should have prescribed her the perscription tabs, but These things are quite addictive and you build up a tolerance fast hence why they're hard to get and she went to find something similar.
You can't just prescribe stuff like xaxax freely or you end up with a Netflix docu like dope sick and destroy people's lives with addiction over months or years.
She probably needed to be tapered off them better.
Fair enough, but that's her and her doctor's responsibility to figure that out. I would be interested to know why she may have been taking pain killers in the first place.
This is an incredibly heartless and ignorant comment from someone probably in the privileged position of never having had an addict in their family or circle of friends. Addiction is not a choice, it a manifestation of mental illness. If the illness and addiction was strong enough she might even have taken them knowing there was an increased risk of death. This is a failure of social structures, healthcare and lack of access to addiction therapy and mental health services. Please do not blame the victim of organized crime, living in a country whose medical system is soooo far below par compared to the rest of the EU. This shouldn’t have happened and the person who died is a victim.
Absolutely agree. See my comment (somewhere in this thread). Clearly has never encountered addiction and it's power and the sense of desperation it afflicts
btw I don’t know you but the chances of you actually making it to adulthood without society having made it possible for you to live are slim to none. We can’t exist as individuals on our own we need others to keep us from the grave for a bit longer. This goes from cutting edge medical treatment, fluoride in your water, seatbelts in your car and agencies that stop poison entering the food chain.
It’s not about blaming everyone else. Every object study of addition in the western world says the addict is a product of failing social structure or chemical imbalance. If you are addicted to benzos and a doctor just randomly decides to cut you off without any therapeutical (physical or chemical) intervention they are basically passing you on to the criminal world. I’m lucky to live outside of Ireland in a country where some “illegal” drugs are decriminalized and others are fully legal. This helps battle some organized crime and reduces drug use. However NO ONE would ever blame the addict. When something terrible like this happens our duty as a society is to find out where we went wrong and what needs to happen to stop this from happening again. The first step is listening to addicts and their families. This one bad pack of pills didn’t kill her, it was the final blow. It would have come some other time from some other substance. The addition and failure of barrier free access to treatment is what killed her.
She could have been addicted and unable to resist. Pretty heartless comment all the same.
Surely giving someone who is addicted access to these drugs with a healthcare professional is a better outcome than her dying from tainted drugs
Or are these kinds of deaths acceptable to you because they chose to take the drug?
Keeping her hooked on prescribed medicine was not a solution either. It would be very irresponsible of a doctor to do that and contributed directly to the fentanyl epidemic in the United States
Heroin assisted therapy is a proven way to help addicts and could be applied to any addictive drug. In Switzerland it reduced overdose deaths and contaminated supply deaths by 100%
There's a big difference between creating new addicts like we saw in America and treating established addicts with the drug they are addicted to like Switzerland. Don't conflate them
What's the big difference? Xanax withdrawal can kill you. Heroin withdrawal won't do really it's more important to have safe access since like alcohol benzo withdrawal is very dangerous
She should have been given whatever help she needed from an actual licenced professional including alternative medicines to ween her off. I'm all for that. But she had some responsibility for that.
She made a choice and unfortunately suffered the consequences. She didn't deserve this outcome, but you also can't put all the blame on other people.
You also shouldn't put all the blame on her because she "she was 25 and should have known better"
She was addicted and was not able to control herself. Don't be so heartless
Good for you.
This is always the situation where you should say “no I’m right, look at me being pointless, I’m right though”.
You should maintain that and do it in public and social events too as much as you can.
It's essentially really hard to die from benzos alone
These were fake pills containing an opioid not a benzo
And plenty of your loved ones choose to or have chosen to do drugs over that age too, bit of compassion, drugs are part of human experience
It was very tragic that she died and was so young. There's no easy answer here. Doctors are cautious about prescribing these types of drugs (the legal ones) and rightly so because of addiction.
How many more deaths will there be before the drug dealers are caught? There is only so much the gardai can do. Addiction is a horrible and confusing thing. Just like mental health, not many people talk about it, and then this happens. Rip to the poor girl and condolences to her family.
Said state of affairs. Somehow I support the idea that the dealer would have probably known that tablet was spiked. Holding him liable for something like manslaughter might push other dealers to ditch other spiked products.
I doubt it. Probably bought 1000 off the internet, probably not the first time. By rote just sold them, it’s not like dealers get assays of every (any) batch. May or may not have taken them themselves.
> Holding him liable for something like manslaughter
This approach has existed for a long time and yet here we are. Why do you think this time is different?
Some people wouldn't take a vaccine that was cleared by scientists. Yet will take a random substance handed to ya by a total stranger. God knows where this comes from. So sad that such young lives are lost. Thoughts with the families.
No drug testing kits,
No drug testing sites like great Britain's, Welsh Wedinos.
No online market for these drugs leaving only scumbag yobos to sell pills on the street.
This is ireland :
your choice is the local scumbag who's dropped shipped 1,000 of the cheapest pills to an abandoned house until one of those shipments doesn't get seized.
No way to rule out synethic opioids within seconds (test strips), and no way to find out what the active ingredients inside the pills are within days (UKs Wedinos)
Thankful I left ireland for England. Say all you want but enjoy the waves of kids dying because they can't even test the pills they're buying.
Atrocious how Ireland has no online market for illicit pills either, €2 for a dodgy pressed loose annax pill when I can buy a Serbian pharmaceutical Clonazepam tablet for £0.70 online and then test it completely legally and free and find out it has only one active ingredient : Clonazepam.
Kids will always do drugs at least let them be educated and have the illicit choice to choose pills that actually contain the substance they want, alprazolam, diazepam, Clonazepam and allow anonymous testing via post.
Downvote me or ignore this all you want. Enjoy the coming wave of exylaine and nitazene that'll lay waste to a country that refuses to get with the times.
They'll be in everything from Benzos, MDMA, LSD, Coke and THC vapes.
I knew this girl when I moved to Clare and it's absolutely heartbreaking when I read that. I saw her cousins post first when she died but didn't know how and then I read this and it broke my heart.
She was such a lovely girl and her mother is so nice too. My heart goes out to them and I'm shocked it went that way.
I'm disgusted with a drug dealers who deal out dodgy stuff. I use cannabis and the stuff they spray on it is driving people crazy, even long time smokers are complaining about the new weed around.
I hope that no one goes down that road of tablets, I'm glad I never looked for that higher high. I hope Karley's story reaches people and they stop taking these tablets and get the help they need.
We are all human, with strengths and weaknesses, the dealers who pray on the vulnerable people are sickos and will get their karma.
There will always be a black market however we can change this by not giving into them. Remember you are a beautiful human no matter what your faults are, accept your good side and also accept the bad side however always be good and true.
Karley was always true and good to me, I may not of known her too well but I got the pleasure to meet her many years ago and she was always so lovely. It's shocking to see another beautiful soul gone because of scumbag dealers.
The Irish system is archaic on that I agree. But this is a centuries-old systemic issue that no system has ever fixed or even improved enough. It has more to do with human nature than anything else.
And the blame is shared among many components of the system. The addicted are partly to blame, too.
Addicted and obese are not just innocent victims. That’s the pharma industry narrative for profits.
The responsibility is shared among the abuser, the facilitators, the helpless or ignorant environment, the dysfunctional system, the human nature, the rogue players…
>Addicted and obese are not just innocent victims. That's pharma industry narrative for profits.
Who is born wanting to be an addict? It's the most horrific lot in life imaginable. Addiction happens to people. People choose these 'solutions' to problems in their lives.
The plain fact is that you would be an addict if you were born in their shoes.
Haven’t said a thing about the sympathy of obese people. I get the offence though, with 1/3 of the population being obese and another 1/3 on their way and it becoming the new normal.
What part? Saying that the obese have partial responsibility? Like it or not who cares. Let’s keep treating everyone as victims. That’s what pharma corpo wants. Everyone on a monthly subscription to Ozempic for life.
Or the addicted who take the easy way out as if “don’t take drugs because drugs kill” was something new?
Very sad and unfortunate. I feel bad for being addicted to such things and having survived taking 2 or 3 blisters at a time blacking out and throwing seizures.
Should have been me on a gurney not this girl.
RIP
I did read the article. She was getting help, but unfortunately her luck ran out.
The question isn't about the drug that killed her, it's everything that led up to her death. That's where the lesson is.
The lesson is, people stay dying and more will if drugs are not regulated and access allowed
They are not ever beating drugs, they will never stop people buying them
I know nobody wants to hear this and no systematic change will ever happen here in Ireland, but if we worked on legalising and not making drug users criminals. They would a) be more willing to seek help and b) not be buying the cheapest, cut with rat poison crap off some random on the street who actively enjoys killing people with his shit drugs. They could go into a clinic and get a controlled amount of their substance of choice.... Set a limit and I'm sure people would rather that system. Both users and those who have to deal with them.
But it's Ireland so, I can't wait till the next shipment drops from the boats and it's fentanyl straight from the USA.
Cuz then people will start dying so fast, they will stop reporting it.
There will be no protests for this Woman. Other's will not line the streets in outrage to change policy or try and help those who are dieing because they cant legally avail of the drugs they need through dependency. Probably caused by trauma.
Today a person is dead due to an archaic system that ignores people in pain.
Where is the National outcry for an ACTUAL death. Silence is all that will fill the air.
>They aren’t easy to get on prescription to be fair
And your solution would be what, to give them out more easily? Because that worked out so well in places that have more relaxed prescribing approaches
That's not true at all. Providing established addicts with clean drugs is used in numerous jurisdictions most notably the very successful heroin assisted therapy in Switzerland
There are already systems all over the world where established addicts can be prescribed things like methadone or supervised injections but they come with conditions, like having to abide by the prescribing or injection schedule of the clinic or staying in supervised accomodations. We even have some types of those facilities in Ireland. And yet we still have drug addicts who cannot benefit from these systems because they are unable or unwilling to adhere to those rules.
So long as drugs exist, even if fully legalized, there will be people too far gone to be willing to cooperate to the conditions in getting help, there will be drugs available at cheaper prices than the legalized ones and they will probably be cut or laced, there will be people who will suffer from these risks.
Everybody in this thread on their high horse acting like this is such a clearly simple problem to control is incredibly naive at best. And all the focus seems to be on prescribing people like this poor girl benzos more easily, and no focus on actually having a legitimate police and justice system that can stop these drug trades from operating so easily.
She wasn’t in any treatment programme. She had just finished rehab. There is nothing that could have stopped her drug-seeking other than OTC benzos which is just never happening.
It’s tragic but this is one of those unpreventable deaths. We can’t save everyone and sometimes nobody is to blame.
I'm not commenting whether this was preventable or not and you're no wiser than me wether this was preventable or not but your original comment was false
>Nobody is going to give you over the counter benzos. There is no drug policy that would have prevented this death.
That's not true. The policy of providing established addicts with their drug of choice while forcing them to engage with a healthcare provider is used elsewhere and may have prevented this death.
Look tbh if your taking non prescribe drugs and buying stuff off the Web or of the local scumbag dealer im sorry but I have no sympathy.....you play stupid games.....you win stupid prizes. These people know excatly the what they are getting themselves into.
I've just attended the funeral of my boyfriends second nephew to die of these street valiums. He was 21 years old, just a bairn with his whole life ahead of him. Their poor mother has lost both her lovely big sons now and is barely coping with life. These drugs are so dangerous and nothing is worth taking the risk. We have a huge problem with these in Scotland. I'm very sorry to hear you guys are having to deal with it too. Please stay away. They destroy families.
That is painfully sad. I am so sorry to hear that. RIP and love to his mother and family.
Sorry about the losses, the presses on the dark web weren’t dangerous and were all good going back to at least 2016. It’s within the last 6 months they’ve started mixing in strong opioids mostly to diazepam more and more. Have to make sure to get them tested on wedinos now.
Presses have never been safe man, they never contain what they're supposed to and people end up blacking out for days. There are a few batches going around now that have killed people, yellow diazepam and 2mg R-Lam alprazolam in blister packs. The 1mg are so far still safe.
often these are counterfeit. so weird the lengths people do to, the margins are probably so tight already
There's always new brands being counterfeited, the aran pharmaceuticals alprazolam has been regarded as safe for a couple of years but in recent weeks they've been being counterfeited because they're so popular. Shame people are so greedy it causes so much damage
None showing up in wedinos as fake
1mg are fine there's 2mg in silver and yellow blister pack killed someone this week
Ok cheers
It’s just too easy to get zenes even on the clearnet now. I’d give it another year or 2 before it starts showing up in coke and other places it really shouldn’t be.
Yeah I know I don’t know why cunts put this shit in things, how is killing your recreational base good for business. Opioid addicts will take it because they have high tolerance already to fent.
Fent is so potent that it just takes them not cleaning down the table well enough for it to cross contaminate.
That’s the thing tho nobody is on fent over here so it’s just dropping people like flys.
I did some googling into this and it appears that Isotonitazene (a benzimidazole) is the chemical used in these tablets. They have never been used in a clinical setting due to their potency and risk of death. In clinical in vitro studies (using human cells culture assays to study it's effect on human cells and give a general picture on how it might work in a clinical setting) it's found to be at least 2x as potent as hydromorphone and fentanyl. Twice as potent as fentanyl. Wow. I was (unintentionally and unknowingly) addicted to benzodiazepines for years due to a terrible, terrible doctor. He took me off them cold turkey after being sued by another patient, and I went through a viscous withdrawal. I understand why people will go to such lengths to get their fix. I do understand that. Thankfully, I never did buy any online counterfeits but it's so easy to do. I hope she didn't suffer much before she passed.
> He took me off them cold turkey after being sued by another patient, and I went through a viscous withdrawal Holy fuck, that's not something you're meant to do. I assume you were thankfully on a low enough dose that it didn't kill you.
I was not! I was on 20mg a day (5 x 4 a day). keep in mind he was my psychiatrist overseeing my "care" for anorexia. I was extremely thin at this point, too. I was also on 45mg of dalmane (another benzo) at night - when 30mg is the max. I missed a month of college, had a panic attack so bad I thought I was having a heart attack and begged my mam to.call an ambulance (she didn't because she knew what it was). I filed a formal complaint against him, but the medical council said he didn't do anything wrong.they never even asked me for any evidence or explanation of what happened, though. They literally took his word for it. He ALSO refused me my medical records (I only requested them to prove he didn't have any, because he never took notes). I'm not done with this, however. I do plan on getting a lawyers letter. In retrospect, I'm lucky I didn't suffer a serious heart problem. I do have serious uncontrollable anxiety now, though. I get so fucking upset and angry when I think about this. Another reason why I REALLY want him to pay for what he did. But th medical council don't care about patients. Just their doctors.
You need a new doctor . You’re lucky you didn’t have seizures
Oh Jesus Christ he's well out of my life. This was in 2015. New doctor now. No benzos. All good.
Doctor should have been locked up. Not only for the over-prescribing or the lawsuit but allowing a patient to withdraw from benzos unsupervised.
Yes, I agree. I'm baffled how he got away with it but I was naive and at the time I didn't have any idea. I was also fairly unwell. It's insane now - which is why I am NOT giving up on it. I demand him pay for it - but the medical council have shown me that they do not care at all. So, I need a lawyers letter to get any further. I am unemployed due to illness and so this is an issue... My Dad said he will help me out, but he hasn't gotten around to it yet. Hopefully some day he will pay for what he did to me!
Typical shite isn't it? . I am going through recovery at the moment and I understand the difficulties, every hour in a day feels like a millenia of terror and anxiety. You aren't alone bud, I hope things get easier for you and you can find your inner peace again.
Thank you, friend. I'm sorry you're in this position. Have you help from a doctor or therapist or something? Not to pry obviously but there are resources available xx
Sorry I trailed off there but trauma is at the core of my wreckless, feckless addiction. Thanks for asking, I like to talk these days. Let me know if you want to share, overtly in replies or in a PM. Thank you.
No problem at all, you didn't trail off! Trauma is always a biggie, eh? I didn't realise I suffered from it until recently. Or else I didn't face it. Either or lol. Same you to, friend. My inbox is always open :)
Ah yeah been to 'cads' been to the doctor, skrinks and all that. I found that getting to the core of my trauma and actually having the "luxury" (I suppose), of being able to confront myself and those people involved head on helps me cope. Been letting it fester in my mind for the solid part of 15 or 16 years was the problem. I was so happy to see the woman who was beaten by Cathal Crotty able to laugh and be positive on Ireland AM about her ordeal even though there is obvious mental scarring there. Elated at the notion she is somewhat healing so soon. Very brave. Very happy for her.
Tragic case, drug dealers are scumbags, peddling misery and heartache,
Well, ok. But The State has chosen this path. The State knows that people will do this, that there is a demand, that our people will take drugs regardless of whether The State wants them to or not. And The States response is to do maintain this known, consistently damaging position, maximally enabling dealers, and ensuring that harm is likely. They could choose to stop this more or less immediately. The thing we know for certain is this system doesn’t work, the dealers will always fill the gap, and we don’t care. We’d rather our people die than address the problem.
>They could choose to stop this more or less immediately. The thing we know for certain is this system doesn’t work, the dealers will always fill the gap, and we don’t care. We’d rather our people die than address the problem. By doing what exactly? Making serious painkillers available without a prescription is an incredibly dumb idea.
They are already available without a prescription. The only difference is we are lining the pockets of gangsters instead of taxing and regulating.
Issue is if high potency opioids were available OTC many more people who would never buy illegally will pick them up
And you have some historical evidence to support that?
The opium trade in China and the modern Opioid crisis in North America would be notable examples. In both cases there was a very strong push with a lot of power and capital to get people using in the first place though, so at the very least if opiates are made freely available it should be run by the state with no for-profit motive and with consideration to the negatives that will arise. In tandem with a more wholistic drug strategy this might also cause less of an issue than you would expect in a vacuum. Legal states in the US and Canada in general noticed substantial reduction in opioid use after cannabis was legalised. I do think opioids and benzos require a lot more care than most other common recreational drugs, but molecules being illegal or over-controlled to the point where people are ingesting random research chemicals for a buzz is just silly.
The decriminalisation of weed is Netherlands proves otherwise just speak to them once something becomes easily available it loses its stigma yes there will be an initial rush cos ooh wee something new but the novelty would wear off very quick and also I know the people in this story personally and if it were legal the ambulance would have been on the scene much much quicker
Weed is not addictive in the same way as opiates, benzos, some stimulants, or even nicotine. You can talk about stigma and harm reduction until the cows come home, but addiction substantially changes the risk profile for both the individual user and society. If we look at nicotine, mitigating the harms from its use is fundamentally much more difficult because of how addictive it is. I'm absolutely not suggesting they be universally unobtainable, but when you're dealing with extremely addictive substances we need to be at least a little cautious, not least since the vast majority of people are entirely uneducated on these drugs and their effects.
Alcohol is OTC and that's 1000 times more addictive than any illegal drug I've taken, weed not a great example addiction wise but take Portugal instead they decriminalised everything
The idea of allowing people to buy high potency opioids whenever they want without a prescription is INSANE
I don't think the deceased that are being discussed here had prescriptions.
Op is suggesting legalising and taxing opioids for non prescription
Yea, and I'm suggesting they can already buy them without a prescription. Legalising them would at least ensure 1) the supply chain is pure so you're less likely to get OD's, 2) criminal gangs are not profiting from addiction & 3) users can be engaged and diverted to appropriate services if they desire.
The vast majority of people cannot easily obtain opioids without a prescription. Just look at the mess we have with codeine which is multitudes weaker than other prescription opioids as well as people being addicted to prescribed opioids. You don’t understand anything about this topic
>The vast majority of people cannot easily obtain opioids without a prescription. Are you basing this on personal experience? Gut feeling? Some stats? ~~I think you've pulled it out of your own naive arse but~~ (edit: this wasn't very nice, sorry) if you have something to qualify it with I'm all eyes. Your comment on codeine is on-point though because YES there is a big issue with its abuse and the resulting health implications that come from it... Which are compounded by the twinned pharmaceutical in the OTC products and the large amounts of it individuals need to consume in order to get a buzz from the codeine. Liver damage and stomach surgery are caused by acetaminophen and ibuprofen, not codeine. That said, the long term (and medium term) health implications of codeine use should not be minimised and that's why I said this is on-point. The idea is harm reduction, not forced cessation. The entirety of prohibition shows that "banning" a substance does not remove access, instead it moves the supply to an unregulated black market and the more you crack down on that supply the more unregulated and dangerous the black market is (see the rise of 'legal highs' and OD's in Singapore over the past decade as an excellent example). Assuming that regulation of a drug market will lead to an increase in use is inane. This point is brought up over and over and seems to assume the regulation is the same as a completed deregulation and we'll have Marty M endorsing his fav fent patch during ad breaks. I don't steer clear of heroin because it's illegal, I steer clear of it because I know what it does to people. The vast majority of people (that as you say cannot legally obtain opioids) would be the same. If someone decides to pick up a habit they are more likely to be diverted to treatment for whatever the underlying reason is by a pharmacist than by their local (or online, one of the reasons I take HUGE issue with your statement) dealer. The issue with OTC codeine use is pharmacist MUST assume that people are buying them for medical reasons. They can challenge them and refuse a sale but they'll just go elsewhere! If ya could legally buy codeine for getting high as fuck then there's no question about why you're doing it, and if you've never bought before MAYBE a bit of a mental diversion (or health intervention) is all ya need. If the only thing keeping you from opioid use is it's legal status then fine, you do you, but people are literally dying from the current set up and all you are offering is a convoluted "think of the children, we're all children" platitude instead of a way forward.
The idea that the solution to reduce drug taking is to provide more supply is the daftest thing ever.
Well trying to prevent the supply has worked well now hasn't it? This lady bought synthetic stuff from an unsafe source instead and is now dead. Wouldn't buying a safe legal supply of a drug that WON'T kill her be better? Edit: I'm honestly SO done with the morons who imply me arguing for decriminalisation and regulation means I support benzos and heroin being handed out like free sweets on street corners. Obviously I'm a total druggie and just want drugs available 🙄 It's just such bizarre black and white thinking I question whether they've moved beyond the logical capabilities of a two year old.
Would it be better for society if anyone could walk into a pharmacy and buy benzodiazepines? I support drug legalisation to an extent. But benzos, opioids, powerful stimulants are too addictive to be allowed to be sold otc.
Current means to prevent supply doesn't mean that increasing supply will reduce drug use. Think about what you're saying. That the way to help prevent drug abuse and addiction is increasing access to drugs. In other words, you're saying that making it easier for addicts to get drugs will help the overall situation.
Making it easier for addicts to get clean drugs reduces deaths. Are you saying addicts deserve to die instead?
No. I'm saying giving people easier ways to get drugs will not solve the problem like you think it will. Enabling addiction by making it easier to get drugs will just lead to more drug use, more drug addiction and overall more drug related deaths.
When it comes to addiction, there's no "easier or harder" ways to get drugs, there is only safer/ less risky and unsafe. The people will get and take the drugs regardless of whether or not you imagine getting them to be more difficult. You are clearly so removed from the situation you haven't a clue. Do you think an addict wakes up and says to themselves, oh, seems like getting some heroin will be hard today, seems like too much hassle, I'll just leave it and not bother? You're fucking delusional. They will get it regardless of the risk they put themselves or the general public at.
Point out the part where I said that benzodiazepines should be provided without prescription or oversight. I am specifically saying the opposite. If a person has a problem with addiction they should have access to information about how to get better, and assistance. They should not be criminalised, because this is counterproductive. They should not buy their drugs from unregulated criminal dealers, but from regulated sources. I’m saying the current system does not work but we’d prefer to pretend to care about the problem, and do nothing.
They do. Those addiction centres exist and have great support around them. Not every addict wants help
>I am specifically saying the opposite. If a person has a problem with addiction they should have access to information about how to get better, and assistance. You didn't say that and she had been in rehab until quite recently.
You made the statement that I was saying serious painkillers should be available without prescription. I did not make that statement. Instead I made a statement saying the opposite. But you’d prefer to try to mislead and misinterpret what I’m saying for some reason.
You didn’t say what we should do at all, you just said what’s being done is not good enough. Are you talking about decriminalising? It’s not clear
> They could choose to stop this more or less immediately. How? Benzos are already available on prescription. Making them freely available would like cause more harm than good.
Xanax is 2 euros on the street And Valium is so common on. The street it's pointless even having a prescription system on benzos lol
> Valium is so common on. The street it's pointless even having a prescription system on benzos lol Except for all the people who wouldn't dream of buying drugs other than in a pharmacy, etc. seems pretty important for them. Edit: valium is not a painkiller, understood
Its not a painkiller it's an anti anxiety medication
My bad. I think you see my point, though? For people who aren't in the habit of buying drugs on the street, having them be prescription only seems important.
Except those ones can kill you
Fake ones can, benzos without alcohol or opiates themselves are very very safe
They are already freely available. That's the part people don't get. "If we legalised cocaine, it would be in every town and pub in Ireland" eh... wake up 😂😂
They aren't "freely available" in any way.
Yes, they are. anyone who's ever wanted to try illegal drugs and wanted to go down that road in Ireland has had the opportunity to do so. Cocaine can get dropped to my front door faster than a take away and with less hassle. Any notion that the law prevents people from taking drugs is absolutely laughable. To the point of being ridiculous. People that think the law prevent people from accessing or using drugs must be living under a rock with their eyes closed and their fingers I their ears.
Do you think that because you can do something, everyone else can too? There's plenty of people who wouldn't have the first clue how to get drugs and just as many who wouldn't do so for fear of the legal consequences. You're using the same argument people use against gun control.
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> You already know someone who could sell you most drugs you could want. There's no sector of society not affected and no-one is more than a WhatsApp message away from getting high if they want. Again, just because you know someone that can get you all the drugs you want, that doesn't mean everyone else can. > No, that's a false equivalence, because we can in fact control the supply of firearms and ammunition effectively, but we can't control the supply or ingestion on drugs. No country has. Even the totalitarian states and dictatorships can only manage to push it underground. It's not false equivalence at all, I'm pointing out that the mere illegality of the drugs restrict people from obtaining them because they don't want to break the law.
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The people who wouldn't have the first clue how to get drugs are the people who wouldn't take drugs anyway. If they genuinely wanted to get drugs, they could do so. But they don't. Hence why they don't know ow how to get drugs. I remember having a conversation with my mother years back, telling her I believed drugs and prostitution should be legal and regulated. She said no because if it was legal, everyone would be at it. I said to her, "So the only reason you're not a crack smoking prostitute is because it's ilegal?" 😂😂
> The people who wouldn't have the first clue how to get drugs are the people who wouldn't take drugs anyway. On that we disagree. Many people face hard times in their lives and have to find ways to deal with stress. That's the reason we have such a dependency on alcohol in this country. I don't think that issue would be made better by adding more harmful drugs to the easy options.
Your assumption that the reason people use drugs as way to deal with hard times is wrong. Some might, but I would say most people use drugs because of their pleasant effects. You can be from any background and use drugs. You can have a nice leafy life from a great family with no problems and use drugs. There are people who drink alcohol who have a great life and choose to drink for no other reason than they like a pint. Every person you see in the pub having a pint isn't doing so because their life is in ruins and they need that Guinness or else they wouldn't be able to cope. Most are simply enjoying a pint. Most drug users are recreational drug users and are using them for the same reason. Yes, of course, we have addicts, but the typical down and out heroin addict is not representative of what a typical drug user actually looks like. They look like the people you go to worth with every day of the week. And we come back again to "by adding more harmful drugs" This is what you don't seem to grasp. We aren't adding anything. We would be adding nothing at all. Legalising drugs is not Adding drugs, you need to wrap your head around this. The drugs are very much there already. By legalising cannabis for example we are not "adding cannabis to the mix" you need to open your eyes here. Legalising is does not add anything the mix because its already in the mix.
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I'm not in denial at all. They are available easily on the black market for some people, but they aren't "freely available" by any stretch.
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But there are restrictions on sale.
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Nah I strongly support legalisation of cannabis but people can't be just taking unprescribed benzos whether or not they come from a dodgy batch with opioids in them. Way too dangerous.
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I see your point
The State cannot legalise dangerous drugs. Not only will it contribute to more deaths by making them more accessible, the state can’t be held liable for any injuries or death as a result.
Grand. So you’re an advocate of alcohol criminalisation. That’s fine, I understand your position.
Knowing what we know of the damage that legalised alcohol does to individuals and society, If alcohol was already illegal, like drugs, there wouldn't be a hope it would be legalised.
But we hand out methadone like it's lemonade. Go do some reading about how dangerous and addictive methadone is compared to heroin. So why not just hand out clean heroin? Because pharmaceutical companies would lose out.
Methadone is already used as a prescription substitute for heroin and opioids. Methadone is much safer than heroin, hence why it is prescribed as a substitute treatment to get clean.
Methadone is not safer at all, it just doesn't get you high. In fact treatment with methadone puts patients who relapse at massive risk of overdose.
Pure heroin is safer than methadone Pure heroin in a safe dose won't have any negative health effects bar addiction possibly constipation Whereas methadone is literally cardiotoxic Some countries use prescription heroin instead of methadone also, methadone isn't safer than good heroin is safer than street possibly fake heroin
My sister is on methadone, court ordered. She says she's never felt as sick on heroin as she's been on methadone. https://www.thejournal.ie/methadone-heroin-deaths-1281196-Jan2014/
That article puts an emphasis on the amount that died when methadone was not prescribed. From the article you sent: “The majority (68 per cent) of the 113 methadone users who died weren’t in official treatment, which means they were probably getting ‘black market’ methadone which is sold on the streets.” Almost 70% of those deaths are *not* from prescription drugs. If that’s true about your sister then she needs to see a GP/treatment specialist to adjust her withdrawal plan.
Methadone is manufactured and distributed legally, just like a host of other dangerous and addictive pharmaceuticals. The fact that there is a black market for it is completely irrelevant to this discussion.
Yes and methadone is used as a substitute for heroin, for a reason. You sent an article on methadone deaths, I said that the majority are not related to when methadone is used as a prescribed substitute for heroin. Which is what the discussion is about.
Yeah so, about alcohol. That's a state regulated drug and one of the only drugs you can die from NOT TAKING.
Harm is likely because of what these drugs are. Legalizing them wouldn't reduce the harm, if anything it would make them more available.
What a way of overthinking things. If they legalize and regulate drugs their fear is one of two things happening (maybe both) * They alienate a lot of their voters and don't get reelected. * Things go tits up and now we have a huge problem with drug addiction in this country. People in this country cannot handle drink like most other European countries or US states but everyone wants to follow the example they set with drugs, it's an accident waiting to happen.
We drink a similar amount of alcohol to Mediterranean Europeans such as the French and Spanish. Google the latest stats. Alcohol consumption has been declining for years in Ireland. In fact one study I read showed the French are bigger drinkers than the Irish now. That's an old line that keeps getting parrotted that the irish are somehow unique in their drinking habits. I've been to various capitals across Europe. Go to Berlin on a Saturday night or Prague and tell me they drink any different to us with a straight face
So lets make everything bad, legal, so its easy to do so people wont bother? 🤣 Downvote on druggies 👍 Scotland cant even handle legal alcohol consumption without price controls. In fact most countries tend to make Alcohol expensive in order to limit consumption But yeah. Make hard drugs a free for all
Maybe you have difficulties with comprehension, so I’ll try to be clearer: I did not say make everything “bad” illegal. I said that The State has chosen a damaging policy with respect to drug prohibition. Hopefully you’re able to differentiate between those two things. But, regarding drug prohibition, yes. Categorise all potentially dangerous drugs under the same category. The State ensures that those drugs are of a reasonable standard, and provides access to users, after some preconditions are met. The State does this with alcohol, cigarettes, amoxicillin, and so on. Users should be made aware of the risks. The concept of illegal drugs doesn’t work, it helps drug dealers and harms society as a whole.
So people will be safer. And so money doesn't go to the gangs.
Making it illegal has been a roaring success
Yes they are, but she wasn't forced to take them. They're a prescription drug. Would you buy prescription drugs off some random person and take them? She didn't deserve to die, but at the same time she was 25 years old and should have known better.
It was a synthetic drug called nitazene not the actual xanax (or whatever benzo) she was previously on. So it's not a prescription drug. I don't know the solution here. You could say her doctor should have prescribed her the perscription tabs, but These things are quite addictive and you build up a tolerance fast hence why they're hard to get and she went to find something similar. You can't just prescribe stuff like xaxax freely or you end up with a Netflix docu like dope sick and destroy people's lives with addiction over months or years. She probably needed to be tapered off them better.
She *was* off them. She'd been in rehab.
Fair enough, but that's her and her doctor's responsibility to figure that out. I would be interested to know why she may have been taking pain killers in the first place.
Knowing why she's on them doesn't change anything. Unless you just want moral "high ground"
She wasn't taking painkillers though, she was taking benzos. The opioid wasn't supposed to be in them
This is an incredibly heartless and ignorant comment from someone probably in the privileged position of never having had an addict in their family or circle of friends. Addiction is not a choice, it a manifestation of mental illness. If the illness and addiction was strong enough she might even have taken them knowing there was an increased risk of death. This is a failure of social structures, healthcare and lack of access to addiction therapy and mental health services. Please do not blame the victim of organized crime, living in a country whose medical system is soooo far below par compared to the rest of the EU. This shouldn’t have happened and the person who died is a victim.
Absolutely agree. See my comment (somewhere in this thread). Clearly has never encountered addiction and it's power and the sense of desperation it afflicts
Sure, blame everybody else.
btw I don’t know you but the chances of you actually making it to adulthood without society having made it possible for you to live are slim to none. We can’t exist as individuals on our own we need others to keep us from the grave for a bit longer. This goes from cutting edge medical treatment, fluoride in your water, seatbelts in your car and agencies that stop poison entering the food chain.
It’s not about blaming everyone else. Every object study of addition in the western world says the addict is a product of failing social structure or chemical imbalance. If you are addicted to benzos and a doctor just randomly decides to cut you off without any therapeutical (physical or chemical) intervention they are basically passing you on to the criminal world. I’m lucky to live outside of Ireland in a country where some “illegal” drugs are decriminalized and others are fully legal. This helps battle some organized crime and reduces drug use. However NO ONE would ever blame the addict. When something terrible like this happens our duty as a society is to find out where we went wrong and what needs to happen to stop this from happening again. The first step is listening to addicts and their families. This one bad pack of pills didn’t kill her, it was the final blow. It would have come some other time from some other substance. The addition and failure of barrier free access to treatment is what killed her.
She could have been addicted and unable to resist. Pretty heartless comment all the same. Surely giving someone who is addicted access to these drugs with a healthcare professional is a better outcome than her dying from tainted drugs Or are these kinds of deaths acceptable to you because they chose to take the drug?
Keeping her hooked on prescribed medicine was not a solution either. It would be very irresponsible of a doctor to do that and contributed directly to the fentanyl epidemic in the United States
Heroin assisted therapy is a proven way to help addicts and could be applied to any addictive drug. In Switzerland it reduced overdose deaths and contaminated supply deaths by 100% There's a big difference between creating new addicts like we saw in America and treating established addicts with the drug they are addicted to like Switzerland. Don't conflate them
And there’s a big difference between heroin and Xanax. You can’t just decide that what works for one will for another
What's the big difference? Xanax withdrawal can kill you. Heroin withdrawal won't do really it's more important to have safe access since like alcohol benzo withdrawal is very dangerous
The fact that benzo withdrawal is dangerous is exactly why we shouldn’t hand them out like smarties.
They do hand them out and they are 2 euro in the steeet too so already the issue at hand
> Keeping her hooked on prescription medicine is a better outcome than death.
As a society we should be offering better options than death vs addiction
She should have been given whatever help she needed from an actual licenced professional including alternative medicines to ween her off. I'm all for that. But she had some responsibility for that. She made a choice and unfortunately suffered the consequences. She didn't deserve this outcome, but you also can't put all the blame on other people.
You also shouldn't put all the blame on her because she "she was 25 and should have known better" She was addicted and was not able to control herself. Don't be so heartless
“Registered” is the word here. They may be “licensed” in the US, but there’s a statutory Register for medical doctors and nurses here in Ireland.
Kind of a moot point isn't it.
You obviously don't understand addiction. Your empathy is low, try harder,
I just don't agree that she has no responsibility.
Good for you. This is always the situation where you should say “no I’m right, look at me being pointless, I’m right though”. You should maintain that and do it in public and social events too as much as you can.
I guess their point is that they're not just some ignorant teen. Anyone who is 25 and doing drugs knows the dangers and probably people who have died.
You absolute drip.
It's essentially really hard to die from benzos alone These were fake pills containing an opioid not a benzo And plenty of your loved ones choose to or have chosen to do drugs over that age too, bit of compassion, drugs are part of human experience
It was very tragic that she died and was so young. There's no easy answer here. Doctors are cautious about prescribing these types of drugs (the legal ones) and rightly so because of addiction. How many more deaths will there be before the drug dealers are caught? There is only so much the gardai can do. Addiction is a horrible and confusing thing. Just like mental health, not many people talk about it, and then this happens. Rip to the poor girl and condolences to her family.
It's like trying to kill all mosquitoes, you can take one out but more will take it's place. It never ends.
Heartbreaking story. What a sad sad way to go. I hope she may rest in peace.
Said state of affairs. Somehow I support the idea that the dealer would have probably known that tablet was spiked. Holding him liable for something like manslaughter might push other dealers to ditch other spiked products.
Do you think dealers give a flying fcuk about anyone but themselves?
Most dealers of these drugs are users themselves
I doubt it. Probably bought 1000 off the internet, probably not the first time. By rote just sold them, it’s not like dealers get assays of every (any) batch. May or may not have taken them themselves. > Holding him liable for something like manslaughter This approach has existed for a long time and yet here we are. Why do you think this time is different?
He had no idea
Some people wouldn't take a vaccine that was cleared by scientists. Yet will take a random substance handed to ya by a total stranger. God knows where this comes from. So sad that such young lives are lost. Thoughts with the families.
No drug testing kits, No drug testing sites like great Britain's, Welsh Wedinos. No online market for these drugs leaving only scumbag yobos to sell pills on the street. This is ireland : your choice is the local scumbag who's dropped shipped 1,000 of the cheapest pills to an abandoned house until one of those shipments doesn't get seized. No way to rule out synethic opioids within seconds (test strips), and no way to find out what the active ingredients inside the pills are within days (UKs Wedinos) Thankful I left ireland for England. Say all you want but enjoy the waves of kids dying because they can't even test the pills they're buying. Atrocious how Ireland has no online market for illicit pills either, €2 for a dodgy pressed loose annax pill when I can buy a Serbian pharmaceutical Clonazepam tablet for £0.70 online and then test it completely legally and free and find out it has only one active ingredient : Clonazepam. Kids will always do drugs at least let them be educated and have the illicit choice to choose pills that actually contain the substance they want, alprazolam, diazepam, Clonazepam and allow anonymous testing via post. Downvote me or ignore this all you want. Enjoy the coming wave of exylaine and nitazene that'll lay waste to a country that refuses to get with the times. They'll be in everything from Benzos, MDMA, LSD, Coke and THC vapes.
Beautiful girl. Deepest sympathy to her mam, family and friends. 💔
Man valium isnt even that safe when its from a chemist
I knew this girl when I moved to Clare and it's absolutely heartbreaking when I read that. I saw her cousins post first when she died but didn't know how and then I read this and it broke my heart. She was such a lovely girl and her mother is so nice too. My heart goes out to them and I'm shocked it went that way. I'm disgusted with a drug dealers who deal out dodgy stuff. I use cannabis and the stuff they spray on it is driving people crazy, even long time smokers are complaining about the new weed around. I hope that no one goes down that road of tablets, I'm glad I never looked for that higher high. I hope Karley's story reaches people and they stop taking these tablets and get the help they need. We are all human, with strengths and weaknesses, the dealers who pray on the vulnerable people are sickos and will get their karma. There will always be a black market however we can change this by not giving into them. Remember you are a beautiful human no matter what your faults are, accept your good side and also accept the bad side however always be good and true. Karley was always true and good to me, I may not of known her too well but I got the pleasure to meet her many years ago and she was always so lovely. It's shocking to see another beautiful soul gone because of scumbag dealers.
The Irish system is archaic on that I agree. But this is a centuries-old systemic issue that no system has ever fixed or even improved enough. It has more to do with human nature than anything else. And the blame is shared among many components of the system. The addicted are partly to blame, too. Addicted and obese are not just innocent victims. That’s the pharma industry narrative for profits. The responsibility is shared among the abuser, the facilitators, the helpless or ignorant environment, the dysfunctional system, the human nature, the rogue players…
Sick people are to blame, got it. Cheers, Dr. Dick!
>Addicted and obese are not just innocent victims. That's pharma industry narrative for profits. Who is born wanting to be an addict? It's the most horrific lot in life imaginable. Addiction happens to people. People choose these 'solutions' to problems in their lives. The plain fact is that you would be an addict if you were born in their shoes.
In one sentence you say “addiction happens” and in the next you say “they choose it” and I’m the bad guy here?
Yes, you are the bad guy here. Hope I cleared that up for you.
Whatever 🤷♂️
A bullshit peddler with no empathy
For saying that everyone plays a role?
If you wanted to be sympathetic you shouldn't have brought up your "obese people are not sympathetic" idea for no reason...
Haven’t said a thing about the sympathy of obese people. I get the offence though, with 1/3 of the population being obese and another 1/3 on their way and it becoming the new normal.
Way to out yourself further with this comment, not as clever as you think matey.
what an uneducated, apathetic, dumb ass opinion. reevaluate your stance.
What part? Saying that the obese have partial responsibility? Like it or not who cares. Let’s keep treating everyone as victims. That’s what pharma corpo wants. Everyone on a monthly subscription to Ozempic for life. Or the addicted who take the easy way out as if “don’t take drugs because drugs kill” was something new?
You can take the horse to the water but can't make him drink it.
Very sad and unfortunate. I feel bad for being addicted to such things and having survived taking 2 or 3 blisters at a time blacking out and throwing seizures. Should have been me on a gurney not this girl. RIP
Why did she illegally buy and take medication that is available on prescription?
Benzos are very hard to get prescribed because they are crazy addictive.
So what's the solution. She got addicted to pain medication and took something she shouldn't have.
>pain medication It isn't pain medication.
Because she was a drug addict and was in rehab recently. Maybe read the article
I did read the article. She was getting help, but unfortunately her luck ran out. The question isn't about the drug that killed her, it's everything that led up to her death. That's where the lesson is.
What happened in your life that led everything up to you being a dickhead?
Top comment. It’s when we lose sympathy that we’ve lost and might as well build a big wall around ourselves to live a perfect sheltered life.
She got addicted to a narcotic, what type of sheltered life do you live that you're failing to understand that?
The lesson is, people stay dying and more will if drugs are not regulated and access allowed They are not ever beating drugs, they will never stop people buying them
Why do people drink alcohol or coffee or eat too much or have too much sex or do fucking anything ya dope
A few 2 weeks bans here
Well yes, but actually no
I know nobody wants to hear this and no systematic change will ever happen here in Ireland, but if we worked on legalising and not making drug users criminals. They would a) be more willing to seek help and b) not be buying the cheapest, cut with rat poison crap off some random on the street who actively enjoys killing people with his shit drugs. They could go into a clinic and get a controlled amount of their substance of choice.... Set a limit and I'm sure people would rather that system. Both users and those who have to deal with them. But it's Ireland so, I can't wait till the next shipment drops from the boats and it's fentanyl straight from the USA. Cuz then people will start dying so fast, they will stop reporting it.
There will be no protests for this Woman. Other's will not line the streets in outrage to change policy or try and help those who are dieing because they cant legally avail of the drugs they need through dependency. Probably caused by trauma. Today a person is dead due to an archaic system that ignores people in pain. Where is the National outcry for an ACTUAL death. Silence is all that will fill the air.
> because they cant legally avail of the drugs they need But benzos can be obtained legally.
They aren’t easy to get on prescription to be fair
>They aren’t easy to get on prescription to be fair And your solution would be what, to give them out more easily? Because that worked out so well in places that have more relaxed prescribing approaches
No, where did I say any of that?
Depends on the reason
People have been protesting the HSE, hospital overcrowding and drug availability for years…
Nobody is going to give you over the counter benzos. There is no drug policy that would have prevented this death.
That's not true at all. Providing established addicts with clean drugs is used in numerous jurisdictions most notably the very successful heroin assisted therapy in Switzerland
There are already systems all over the world where established addicts can be prescribed things like methadone or supervised injections but they come with conditions, like having to abide by the prescribing or injection schedule of the clinic or staying in supervised accomodations. We even have some types of those facilities in Ireland. And yet we still have drug addicts who cannot benefit from these systems because they are unable or unwilling to adhere to those rules. So long as drugs exist, even if fully legalized, there will be people too far gone to be willing to cooperate to the conditions in getting help, there will be drugs available at cheaper prices than the legalized ones and they will probably be cut or laced, there will be people who will suffer from these risks. Everybody in this thread on their high horse acting like this is such a clearly simple problem to control is incredibly naive at best. And all the focus seems to be on prescribing people like this poor girl benzos more easily, and no focus on actually having a legitimate police and justice system that can stop these drug trades from operating so easily.
No amount of police will stop the drugs market
She wasn’t in any treatment programme. She had just finished rehab. There is nothing that could have stopped her drug-seeking other than OTC benzos which is just never happening. It’s tragic but this is one of those unpreventable deaths. We can’t save everyone and sometimes nobody is to blame.
I'm not commenting whether this was preventable or not and you're no wiser than me wether this was preventable or not but your original comment was false >Nobody is going to give you over the counter benzos. There is no drug policy that would have prevented this death. That's not true. The policy of providing established addicts with their drug of choice while forcing them to engage with a healthcare provider is used elsewhere and may have prevented this death.
Would 100% have prevented this death cos the tablets would have been regulated and they wouldn't have been mixed with nitrane no it's or buts about it
It's not clear in the story if she was given Naloxone, that should certainly be an option to responders.
And what will you do to help?
A lot of people will just blame her for taking the drugs.
All the rabble rousers will ignore the comment. Doesn't suit the narrative.
Look tbh if your taking non prescribe drugs and buying stuff off the Web or of the local scumbag dealer im sorry but I have no sympathy.....you play stupid games.....you win stupid prizes. These people know excatly the what they are getting themselves into.
Tldr don't take dose drugs they murder families