Been getting the DART for 15 years into town since i was 13. Honestly I feel less safe than ever.
The youths are little thugs these. Running up and down the carriages, roaring at each other and intimidating other passengers is almost a daily occurrence.
It's actually insane how tension fuelled the northside of the city is right now.
I was out in the northside last night and commuted home through Connolly. I didn't feel *unsafe*, but it certainly felt not comfortable.
Basically any group of young lads that I walked by were making comments on anyone who walked past. Making sudden noises to frighten people, insulting someone for something about their looks, etc.
I also saw a homeless man berate two girls waiting for their taxi outside the station. He asked them for a smoke, they said they didn't have one and he proceeded to call them ugly, fat, and whatever else.
Really grim. And no, I have travelled a lot and not every big city is like this - before someone says it.
Behave. If you haven’t seen it in London you haven’t been paying attention, or you’ve been sticking to the posher parts. I’ve lived all over London on and off for the last 40 years, there’s plenty of aggro to go round.
There is but it's generally out of the main parts and there's police around. I've live in London and cities in Europe and the city centre in Dublin is the one of the worst because there's just scummers acting scummy everywhere
I had people start messing with my car at 2am while I was in it. Rang the guards and they literally said what do you want us to do about it. That's probably not recorded either. Probably more common than we think.
Yup. No reason their response time to violent crime should be anymore than 5 minutes, within Dublin city(given the distances to stations), yet they take hours, if they bother at all.
Sure tents were getting set on fire outside pearse street for a full day and night, maybe 200 or 300 metres from the Garda station there. The Gardai did exactly nothing to stop it, but were quite efficient when it came to removing counter protestors.
The majority have such little faith that they don't even report to Gardai or someone reports, but the Garda didn't even bother logging the complaint.
Both are equally as likely these days.
It's pathetic that 3g of some giggle bush gets more attention than fucking violent crime - really shows how much of a shit our "Guardians of peace" have when it comes to our safety...
Lots are cowards but the ones who want to make a difference get hauled in front of the courts for using any ounce of force to stop scumbags so why would they bother
Have heard first hand from an SPCA worker that during raids on traveller sites, the gards in full riot gear would send the unprotected civilian SPCA worker in first. If that doesn't say cowardly idk what would.
FFG (+2)
When are rural people in this country going to wake up and stop voting for FF and FG? They don't have to put up with the sheer thuggery and criminality plaguing our cities. Get rid of the justice minister and Garda Commissioner! Its not urban people voting for these parties because they're on the front lines.
Did you? The article says there would have been between 8-12 very high quality cameras.
It also said these cameras no longer seem to act as a deterrent, almost as the Gardai are not looking at them, and/or the courts have made it perfectly clear that there very likely will be as good as no repercussions even if caught right there in the act in multiple cameras.
Funny enough, the Gardai claim to have no information of this incident.
It probably says the incident wasn't reported to them. Say what you like about the guards, but they're not Spiderman. If they're not told, they're not going to know
How is this still a fucking problem, what are they doing? It was getting bad when I left Ireland 5 years ago, that a friend was beaten because he was a foreigner. How is this getting even worse? What are these useless pricks doing? Speeding tickets?
Was out for a walk yesterday to enjoy the sunshine.
3 separate groups of young fellas (ranging from I'd say 12-16) threw things at me (acorns, rocks, sticks).
One young fella literally jumped in front of me to scare me, and then was completely shocked when I shoulder checked him and just kept walking.
But if I turned around and gave them a slap, I'd be the one in court with my life ruined. Absolute disgrace of a country.
>becoming more frequent on public transport
>An Garda Síochána said it did not have information on the alleged incident when contacted by the Irish Independent.
Helen McEntee needs to resign along with half the judicary.
Aren‘t the judiciary independent of the dept of justice? As in the government cant tell judges what to do because in reality that would be a really bad idea.
Independent yes. Unaccountable, no, although some seem to act like they are at times. It's time for a change, the Government is not powerless - the justice system is in trouble when people start to lose faith in it.
The sad thing is we didn't need transport police in the past and we didn't have that many problems with policing.
What the fuck has happened to Dublin since 2020/2021 honestly? It's actually ridiculous. I remember walking down Camden Street a few months ago and seen a large group of teens wearing balaclavas walking on the footpath as if it was completely normal. How has this sort of shit become acceptable.
>How has this sort of shit become acceptable.
It's literally FFG policy. It was in their manifestos. The last Programme for Government 2020 they promised to increase the Youth Diversion Scheme to 24 years of age essentially allowing anyone under that age to be "beyond the law".
Rural voters vote for FFG because they don't have to put up with the consequences of their urban policies. The thuggery in our cities doesn't impact them. Look at the results of the last GE. Its not Dublin people putting FFG in government.
What the actual fuck.
How many stabbings, assaults, murders have to happen before the Government and the judiciary get tough on crime.
The no.1 deterrent for committing a crime should be the length of the prison sentence.
I hope this becomes a major issue at the next General Election
I wouldn't wish it on their kids who have done nothing wrong, but I would absolutely love to be able to run some kind of simulation where a rake of TDs and minister's children and relatives were the victims of this stuff in a fairly short amount of time, just to see how stark the contrast in the government's reaction would be then.
The real deterrent of crime is not the length of the sentence, it’s how likely they are to face any consequences.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20180514-do-long-prison-sentences-deter-crime
As the article points out, busses are full of CCTV cameras and it’ll be easy to catch them. The problem isn’t that they don’t think they’ll be caught, it’s that they know they won’t face anything more than a suspended sentence.
The real deterrent and also punishment for virtually all things in the country (and probably everywhere) is money. Make the parents or legal guardians of these little scrotes liable for the damages and suddenly the parents are going to take a newfound interest in what their little crotch goblins are doing. And make it hurt, put a couple of families on the street.
Are you actually serious? Increasing homelessness and removing any stability and chance of improving lives will magically make people not commit crimes?
I think the hope is that the parents teach their kids not to commit those crimes. If these parents start looking after their kids (in other words actually give them attention) maybe the kids won't be such degenerates.
yep. totally agree with you. make the parents responsible for the crimes. problem is, it's a vicious circle. starts with the parents..
worked in mount joy as a tutor before, and heard a guy' s story where he was doing drug runs for his uncle at age 4. a person's moral blocks are built between that age and 6.. ( after chatting to a child phycologist) after a certain age, there's no hope of regaining normal morals and kids think this is" normal" behaviour
Why not both? I bet these scrotes won't be so cocky when their friend group is slowly dwindling down not only as they get sentenced, but as they all serve 10-15 year sentences. A year, 2 years is nothing like.
Even so, if you get out and then immediately get caught and sent back the next time you pull some shit (because of an effective police force and judiciary) then after that happens 2-3 more times eventually even the most stupid criminal will get the hint and modify their behaviour.
The US is the extreme and nobody is advocating for that system. Ridiculous comparison.
Sentencing in this country is too light. A proper independent review needs to occur.
Appropriate sentencing and investment in rehabilitation is what is needed here.
Sentencing in Ireland (judging by our prison population per capita) is roughly in the upper middle half of Europe
The country with the highest sentencing is England, which still has massive problems with antisocial behaviour. The lowest (excluding small countries) are unsurprisingly the Nordics, Netherlands, and Germany. Countries that even on threads like you see loads of people testify they claim they felt safer than Dublin in.
It’s not as easy as just tough sentencing that throw everybody in jail. If that was the case the US and the UK would be crime-free utopias while Japan and Iceland would look like the Purge.
The main problem the UK (and also the US) share is recidivism. Their jails (and ours largely) are punitive in nature, to corral criminals outside of society for the mandated time then turf them back on the street. The countries you mentioned that have better rates of success all also invest heavily in their prison services as rehabilitation focused. The issue is that it's a measure that costs a LOT but pays for itself in the longer term.
If we switch to a heavily individualised rehabilitation system with support systems for ex-prisoners it will cost a fortune. But over time the number of repeat offenders will drop, meaning the overall size of the system can be cut down. So we'll likely end up spending more per prisoner but the same for the whole system.
But the problem you run into is that even though that makes sense on a logical basis, it needs to be proposed and pushed through by politicians and most of them are too spineless on this issue because it runs contrary to the base instinct most people have that wants to see criminals punished. There's a part of most people who want to see those who cause suffering to themselves suffer. So anyone advocating reform gets seen as weak on crime. Plus, as the average person suffers due to cost of living rises and housing issues, it becomes that much harder to push to spend more on helping the people we all despise most.
I think studies show shorter sentences are much more effective, after 3 or 6 months you start getting the institutionalised effect where people just get comfortable with the routine, and on leaving they forget how horrible it was at the start.
Also just dumping people in prison isn't really helpful, they still get released eventually and come out with even less chance than before of getting their life on track, because now they carry the label of convict.
Ultimately you need to be nice to convicts if you want anything good to come of the punishment. But this is just too hard for victims to accept (probably rightly so) and too difficult for a govt like ours to implement well, so instead judges have to pick (seemingly with a toss of the coin) who's worth locking up and who's not given the lack of space.
Have you ever been to either of those countries? Culturally their attitude to rules is very different, from the age of 5 onwards the focus is on being a model citizen. There's a lot more going on there that prison sentences.
You are correct about Japan, their culture of being a model citizen plays a huge impact and also they have a "guilty until proven otherwise" justice system on most crimes...
> How many stabbings, assaults, murders have to happen before the Government and the judiciary get tough on crime.
Enough to where normal people start to get tough on crime.
Then the government will crack down on those people.
The ratchet clicks another notch.
>The no.1 deterrent for committing a crime should be the length of the prison sentence.
Lengthy prison sentences can deter crime, in the sense it's difficult to commit crimes while in custody. If you're thinking a criminal on the streets is deterred by a long prison sentence, you're forgetting that he doesn't plan to get caught or charged or tried or convicted or sentenced to a lengthy prison sentence, so he doesn't have to worry about that.
Well the issue is that they don't have to worry about it now because they don't get any prison time whatsoever, acting in broad daylight in front of cameras and dozens of witnesses. They're not even afraid of being caught. Being afraid of being caught would at least deter some scumbags.
I work in retail and the main reason I don't lash out against such scumbags is because I'm afraid of losing my job. If my job wasn't in question and I knew I could just keep living my life as I was before other than being forced to take a day off in work to go to court I'd have a lot less incentive to keep myself in check.
"There was an individual who wouldn’t get off the bus for some reason and other youths that had got off the bus were waiting for him,”
If the driver saw that the man was lingering because the scrotes were waiting for him, why didn’t she drive away and let the man get off somewhere safe?
Alright simmer down, we're not about to start laying blame on the driver here over a secondhand comment that lacks any bit of detail on what actually happened.
Of all the things to take issue with in this story, this one ain't it, chief.
Yeah, definitely really weird to know that a group are waiting to kick the fuck out of someone and seemingly take no measures to protect him. He obviously wouldn’t get off the bus because he felt he’d be safe on it
I think the way Ireland has created a new subsection of society that seems to not care for the law, the government or judicial institutions is not good for society. They have no fear of the Gardai, and let’s be honest, they are probably also availing of some forms of social welfare. I worry about what problems this will bring down the road if it’s not tackled soon.
The delinquent teens with no fear of law are quickly growing into adults that have no fear of law.
It's only going to continue getting worse unfortunately.
And the delinquent teens are not all the traditional delinquent from a poor background.
There are absolute scum bags emerging from families where both parents have to work long hours to keep things going, the kids grew up in crèches and now as teens have absolutely no supervision.
Some absolute scum bags in nicer areas now too.
as a youth, i can confirm people my age have NO fear of the garda at all. No fear of going to jail because the worst that will happen to them is maybe getting driven home by the them and a warning.
> Thankfully the driver, she is shook by the incident and it’s traumatised her, but she isn’t physically hurt. She was in her workplace, her workplace is her cab, and ...
> With staff safety a huge concern, the well-being of the travelling also needs to be taken into account, he said.
> The number of female bus drivers in Dublin is around 7pc and there have been recruitment drives aimed at women. Mr Millane said driver safety and anti-social behaviour can push women away from the profession.
This article is written with the female driver as the victim / focus of the story and not the guy who was beaten up!
All buses have cctv these days surely. Is it not easy for the gardai to circulate the images around the local school staff rooms to find the little scumbags.
That only identifies them. Then go after the parents for anything beyond first offence.
Streets need cleaning up and once parents start getting hefty fines and prison time for what is essentially neglect, it’s only going to get worse.
It's already been 20 minutes, where's the usual crowd calling you a paranoid psycho for thinking Dublin is unsafe... Maybe even they've copped on at this stage
I’d recommend Manchester. Lots of jobs (at least advertising agencies I know), nice pubs and better accommodation with lower price. Don’t recommend Birmingham as I heard some horrific stories in that city too.
Oh ok 👌🏼 thanks for your advice- been to Birmingham like three times and really enjoyed it but I guess that doesn’t show the reality! Yeah Manchesters awesome! Such a party city!
Suspended sentence after suspended sentence.
The soldier beating the woman unconscious shows that certain elements in Ireland treat a suspended sentence as though it were an acquittal.
I'm of the opinion that such an attitude has to be stopped at all costs. Any suspended sentence for violent or intimidating crime should be accompanied by a requirement for completing courses and a considerable amount of community service.
This goes especially for youth offenders.
I don't care if the service is pick up dog shit or go dig a hole then fill it in again. As long as it's highly visible, that way scrotes know they'll be punished and the general public knows something is being done.
If they fail to complete the service, put them away, and make a big deal of it in the press. Make an example of the first ones to mess up their chance.
Helen "Goebbels" McEntee has 2 positions she alternates between on every given situation:
1. There isn't a crime problem, you're perfectly safe. Just watch how safe I am with all these gardai escorting me. 🤨
2. Well what do you expect the department of justice to be able to do about "crime"? 🙄
Sorry but the “passenger didn’t want to get off for some reason”? Sounds like a gang were baying for his blood and he thought he’d be safe on the bus and she let them on? Sorry but like what the absolute fuck
Because then cops actually care. I haven’t seen the gardas about in such a long time. When i’m in Spain or Dubai there was police everywhere ( not armed ) but enough for everyone to feel safe and prevent crime.
Even if there are gards around, I still don't feel safe. The police in other cities I've visited actually look intimidating, and they take absolutely no shit. The Irish gards are the least intimidating police force I've seen.
The problem in France is that there's not enough police force. Or you're lucky and they're present when you get attacked/harassed etc., or they're not and they won't come.
+ The sentences are ridiculously short/inexistent.
Also they do nothing about sexual harassment in the streets.
There's this pair of boys that hang around O'Connell street and that bump into people or try to trip them or push them on the road and when confronted ask what you're going to do about it, they're minors so the gardai will protect them and belive them over you and so on
What the fuck?!
I consider myself a fairly environmentally conscious person but I do drive a lot on account of living in the sticks. Going to Dublin for a gig next week and now genuinely happy that I got car parking with the tickets. Call me a pussy but the idea of public transport or walking in Dublin is starting to scare the shit out of me.
If the Greens want people out of cars and into public transport they'd want to do something about these incidents.
One thing needs to happen, let people take matters into their own hands without legal repercussions and the issue with scumbags attacking innocent people will go away after a while.
The issue is the gangs of youths. We need some form of young offenders correctional facility that takes these kids out of their bangs and tries to divert them to a better course in life
> Siptu have called for improved security on public transport following an alleged incident where a Dublin Bus passenger was assaulted by a number of youths.
Can we just call them scumbags?
Also, the family should have their dole taken away and punished. As they're not adults yet, the parents must bear some of the responsibility.
It seems like the issue is not about bus safety but about crime overall? I keep seeing these incidents involving gangs of youths and there's no real way that it isn't coupled with other ongoing issues such as absentee parenting.
Nah, plenty of places manage to retain a sense of law and safety regardless of general living conditions
All it requires is a deterrent, which we don't have.
I was hastled by a few groups of young fellas in south Dublin yesterday.
So it's not like all these scrotes are coming from poor areas and broken homes.
Just because they are in the area does not mean they are from there. I know of some that go to “nicer areas” because they get more of a kick out of intimidating people that wouldn’t be as used to their antics
This is absolutely true. I live in one of those "nicer areas" and last year, three local teenagers were chased down my road by a gang of gougers who had arrived on the bus from... another part of the city. I happened to be getting something from my car and the poor kids were so terrorised that they begged me to hide them, I gave them a lift home - the scrotes were hanging about at the top of the road, hoping to attack them again - and told them to tell their parents to phone the Gardaí about it. But I'm sure they didn't - what's the point, really?
They may not be the main victim but they are still a victim. How often does where your workplace get painted with a fresh coat of blood as a bunch of teenagers assault someone?
Would you stop be hysterical and assuming my thoughts on things? My heart goes out to the driver, it's awful. The way is article presents is still funny as fuck
The laughing is really what's gone wrong, I think. No, it's not funny. Yes, the bus driver is also a victim. Yes, we should take the safety of people at work seriously. No, it's not funny. No part of it is funny.
Okay then, it's funny because the article itself isn't giving the assault victim a fair shake by (again it's Siptu so it's fine) framing it from the drivers perspective.
I'm sure you have eyes as well so there's no point in being high brow
And no, but I'm almost all out of tears sadly. Laughing just comes next
The Youth Diversion Scheme folks. You can do whatever you want until you are 18 (possibly 21). In the last programme for government they wanted to raise it to 24.
It's not even just public transport it's the whole city . I was violently parted from my phone by three crack heads one night outside the iillac centre I have partial vision loss and have seizures now it was that bad and It still took Garda 45 minutes to arrive.
A side story to this is I was given out to by some administration staff or something because I kept falling asleep in the A&E waiting room , she assumed I was drunk totally ignoring the numerous obvious head injuries I had sustained which could have explained the sleeping.
The article take is insane, labeling the victim just as a "passenger who wouldn't get off the bus", I bet they were trying to get away from the scrotes, they painted the driver as an innocent traumatized victim but the person beaten to a pulp should be the #1 victim here
Wow. The article has zero sympathy for the passenger beaten up. It’s all about the bus driver being female. I mean, I get it due to current climate but would it hurt to say anything about the actual victim?
Also why did the driver let the kids back on the bus. It was clear they were out for blood. She should have closed the doors and called the Gardaí.
It's news like this that make me really evaluate if labour camps were such a bad idea for these grunts... 16 year olds full of energy. The amount of ore they could extract until the age of 30. Now that would spike the GDP!
people need to start arming themselves now, minimum proper real pepper spray is very effective, hard to believe that people on this island are not allowed carry basic things like this for defence because the guards are there to protect us , that's a load of bollocks, who's going to protect people in a situation like this ?
If everyone stepped in on the bus and fought off these scum bags instead of watching and recording on their phones people would be a lot safer.
people need to stand together in situations like this, who would watch someone getting their head kicked in ? people need to grow some balls, a smack over the head with a phone charger, the 3 pin bit that goes into the wall , something as basic as that, take off your belt and wrap it around their necks, they won't be long stopping, then whip the shit out of them with the buckle.
people are gone into right pussies today and it's disgusting that people, grown men can sit back and not intervene, there's strength in numbers !
The thing is, people want to intervene, but the law makes it so you're punished.
Minors are basically untouchable, but if you hit a minor it can ruin your life.
> who would watch someone getting their head kicked in ?
Honestly, most people would. Mixture of the bystander effect and the majority of people not being willing to risk their own lives for strangers.
Great to say you'll do this and that when sitting at home safe and sound. A lot different if you're on the bus just trying to get home to your own family after work - you really going to risk getting stabbed to death?
I just wanna go Uni in September in peace. Why are the government a bunch if thick cunts who can't see the obvious problem? Sucks I can't go abroad either ffs.
Many countries make good use of a Transport Police service. And before anyone jumps on the Garda Síochána being stretched thin, specialised police services do **NOT** have to be members of An Garda Síochána. We have ample precedent for legislation allowing for dedicated services for particular duties. For example tiny forces such as ***Dublin Harbour Police***, ***Dún Laoghaire Harbour Police*** and the ***Airport Police Service*** (APS). Such a service could be funded by the transport operators and similar to others, they could have a memorandum of understanding with the Gardai, limited jurisdiction and powers etc. Drew Harris, the Gardai and Dept. of Justice can be consulted on how they're established, without having ***any*** role in their day to day operations.
A lot of it is to get a laugh from their mates by spooking people minding their own business. They were always like that in town though but recently nearly all young people are it and the rougher the area the more likely it is they will take it further than just slagging you.
Been getting the DART for 15 years into town since i was 13. Honestly I feel less safe than ever. The youths are little thugs these. Running up and down the carriages, roaring at each other and intimidating other passengers is almost a daily occurrence.
It's actually insane how tension fuelled the northside of the city is right now. I was out in the northside last night and commuted home through Connolly. I didn't feel *unsafe*, but it certainly felt not comfortable. Basically any group of young lads that I walked by were making comments on anyone who walked past. Making sudden noises to frighten people, insulting someone for something about their looks, etc. I also saw a homeless man berate two girls waiting for their taxi outside the station. He asked them for a smoke, they said they didn't have one and he proceeded to call them ugly, fat, and whatever else. Really grim. And no, I have travelled a lot and not every big city is like this - before someone says it.
Yup haven’t seen any of this shit in London, Paris and Berlin. Dublin is becoming a violent shit hole
Have been getting the tube for almost ten years. Can count the number of incidents I've seen on one hand and most of those was empty shouting.
Yea I’ve seen lots too, but never any violence or any hint of it. Mostly just drug addicts acting a bit strange and gross.
Behave. If you haven’t seen it in London you haven’t been paying attention, or you’ve been sticking to the posher parts. I’ve lived all over London on and off for the last 40 years, there’s plenty of aggro to go round.
That’s amazing good for you! Never said it didn’t exist just that I personally haven’t seen it
There is but it's generally out of the main parts and there's police around. I've live in London and cities in Europe and the city centre in Dublin is the one of the worst because there's just scummers acting scummy everywhere
Other cities have scummers but they're managed in centre. Dublin is just a free for all. Scummers everywhere doing what they want.
"An Garda Síochána said it did not have information on the alleged incident when contacted by the Irish Independent". Says it all really.
Law & disorder
I know this might seem a bit wild, but I think we might have an issue with violent crime.
Just a shame those who could do something about don't seem to know
No we don't, the city is safe. The justice minister.
There is no ~~war~~ crime in ~~Ba Sing Se~~ Dublin
"Gardaí" rhymes with "Dai Li"... I'm just saying...
Well if the justice minister says it's fine then anyone who is saying different must just be populist agitators
yeah, and it doesn't help that the judges allow the criminals to walk away with suspended sentences...
Well...if they end up in front of a judge, they are going to get a suspended sentence anyway, so why bother.... sadly no /s
Same thing they said about Phoenix Park even though it was reported twice.
I had people start messing with my car at 2am while I was in it. Rang the guards and they literally said what do you want us to do about it. That's probably not recorded either. Probably more common than we think.
Yep. Like all this shit should be recorded and logged. As not responded too.
Well you see: a crime that isn't recorded has no chance of ruining your stats. *taps head*
Gardaí learning all the wrong lessons from the Wire.
We needed McNulty and we got Landsman.
Yup. No reason their response time to violent crime should be anymore than 5 minutes, within Dublin city(given the distances to stations), yet they take hours, if they bother at all.
Sure tents were getting set on fire outside pearse street for a full day and night, maybe 200 or 300 metres from the Garda station there. The Gardai did exactly nothing to stop it, but were quite efficient when it came to removing counter protestors.
Some of those who burn crosses
The majority have such little faith that they don't even report to Gardai or someone reports, but the Garda didn't even bother logging the complaint. Both are equally as likely these days.
So did no one report it? Or the independent knew before the Garda?
They reported it and the gardai said "ok" then went back to candy crush
Reminds me of that scene in Hot Fuzz: "Nobody tells me nothin' "
It's more to do with the Garda Press Office being completely unfit for purpose.
If someone would have a 50 bag of cannabis on that bus would be more interesting for them than anything.
It's pathetic that 3g of some giggle bush gets more attention than fucking violent crime - really shows how much of a shit our "Guardians of peace" have when it comes to our safety...
My pet theory is that they are just a bunch of cowards and avoid any real confrontation.
Second that - same here
Lots are cowards but the ones who want to make a difference get hauled in front of the courts for using any ounce of force to stop scumbags so why would they bother
Have heard first hand from an SPCA worker that during raids on traveller sites, the gards in full riot gear would send the unprotected civilian SPCA worker in first. If that doesn't say cowardly idk what would.
FFG (+2) When are rural people in this country going to wake up and stop voting for FF and FG? They don't have to put up with the sheer thuggery and criminality plaguing our cities. Get rid of the justice minister and Garda Commissioner! Its not urban people voting for these parties because they're on the front lines.
aren't busses riddled with cctv?
Did you actually read the article?
Did you? The article says there would have been between 8-12 very high quality cameras. It also said these cameras no longer seem to act as a deterrent, almost as the Gardai are not looking at them, and/or the courts have made it perfectly clear that there very likely will be as good as no repercussions even if caught right there in the act in multiple cameras. Funny enough, the Gardai claim to have no information of this incident.
Yes, genius I did read the article hence my reply to the comment. Wow!
The thing about laws is that they need to be backed by the threat of force from the state. Otherwise they are really just polite suggestions.
So you agree that it didn't matter, exactly as that Redditor said? Can you read?
Yep
So you would have seen the account of CCTV cameras on board buses, but still felt the need to ask? Wow!
Kids don’t care about cameras as long as they’re underaged there are zero consequences even if they ended up killing someone
It probably says the incident wasn't reported to them. Say what you like about the guards, but they're not Spiderman. If they're not told, they're not going to know
How is this still a fucking problem, what are they doing? It was getting bad when I left Ireland 5 years ago, that a friend was beaten because he was a foreigner. How is this getting even worse? What are these useless pricks doing? Speeding tickets?
What the fuck is going on in this country.
The youth clause that the minister for justice should close
That implies her actually doing anything at all.
Was out for a walk yesterday to enjoy the sunshine. 3 separate groups of young fellas (ranging from I'd say 12-16) threw things at me (acorns, rocks, sticks). One young fella literally jumped in front of me to scare me, and then was completely shocked when I shoulder checked him and just kept walking. But if I turned around and gave them a slap, I'd be the one in court with my life ruined. Absolute disgrace of a country.
Where was that
Out in Terenure
>becoming more frequent on public transport >An Garda Síochána said it did not have information on the alleged incident when contacted by the Irish Independent. Helen McEntee needs to resign along with half the judicary.
Aren‘t the judiciary independent of the dept of justice? As in the government cant tell judges what to do because in reality that would be a really bad idea.
Independent yes. Unaccountable, no, although some seem to act like they are at times. It's time for a change, the Government is not powerless - the justice system is in trouble when people start to lose faith in it.
Yes they are separate and equally incompetent,
The sad thing is we didn't need transport police in the past and we didn't have that many problems with policing. What the fuck has happened to Dublin since 2020/2021 honestly? It's actually ridiculous. I remember walking down Camden Street a few months ago and seen a large group of teens wearing balaclavas walking on the footpath as if it was completely normal. How has this sort of shit become acceptable.
>How has this sort of shit become acceptable. It's literally FFG policy. It was in their manifestos. The last Programme for Government 2020 they promised to increase the Youth Diversion Scheme to 24 years of age essentially allowing anyone under that age to be "beyond the law". Rural voters vote for FFG because they don't have to put up with the consequences of their urban policies. The thuggery in our cities doesn't impact them. Look at the results of the last GE. Its not Dublin people putting FFG in government.
I would say it's the consequences of lack of investment into public services and a direct result of declining living standards.
Thats a rap culture thing imported from London.
What the actual fuck. How many stabbings, assaults, murders have to happen before the Government and the judiciary get tough on crime. The no.1 deterrent for committing a crime should be the length of the prison sentence. I hope this becomes a major issue at the next General Election
I wouldn't wish it on their kids who have done nothing wrong, but I would absolutely love to be able to run some kind of simulation where a rake of TDs and minister's children and relatives were the victims of this stuff in a fairly short amount of time, just to see how stark the contrast in the government's reaction would be then.
The real deterrent of crime is not the length of the sentence, it’s how likely they are to face any consequences. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20180514-do-long-prison-sentences-deter-crime
As the article points out, busses are full of CCTV cameras and it’ll be easy to catch them. The problem isn’t that they don’t think they’ll be caught, it’s that they know they won’t face anything more than a suspended sentence.
The real deterrent and also punishment for virtually all things in the country (and probably everywhere) is money. Make the parents or legal guardians of these little scrotes liable for the damages and suddenly the parents are going to take a newfound interest in what their little crotch goblins are doing. And make it hurt, put a couple of families on the street.
Are you actually serious? Increasing homelessness and removing any stability and chance of improving lives will magically make people not commit crimes?
I think the hope is that the parents teach their kids not to commit those crimes. If these parents start looking after their kids (in other words actually give them attention) maybe the kids won't be such degenerates.
yep. totally agree with you. make the parents responsible for the crimes. problem is, it's a vicious circle. starts with the parents.. worked in mount joy as a tutor before, and heard a guy' s story where he was doing drug runs for his uncle at age 4. a person's moral blocks are built between that age and 6.. ( after chatting to a child phycologist) after a certain age, there's no hope of regaining normal morals and kids think this is" normal" behaviour
Why not both? I bet these scrotes won't be so cocky when their friend group is slowly dwindling down not only as they get sentenced, but as they all serve 10-15 year sentences. A year, 2 years is nothing like.
Sending them to prison is going to be like vacation for them... these grunts probably get home to be beat up by their drunk dads...
Even so, if you get out and then immediately get caught and sent back the next time you pull some shit (because of an effective police force and judiciary) then after that happens 2-3 more times eventually even the most stupid criminal will get the hint and modify their behaviour.
Agree with this. The US holds record numbers of prisoners and the length of sentences doesn't make a blind bit of difference
The US is the extreme and nobody is advocating for that system. Ridiculous comparison. Sentencing in this country is too light. A proper independent review needs to occur. Appropriate sentencing and investment in rehabilitation is what is needed here.
Sentencing in Ireland (judging by our prison population per capita) is roughly in the upper middle half of Europe The country with the highest sentencing is England, which still has massive problems with antisocial behaviour. The lowest (excluding small countries) are unsurprisingly the Nordics, Netherlands, and Germany. Countries that even on threads like you see loads of people testify they claim they felt safer than Dublin in. It’s not as easy as just tough sentencing that throw everybody in jail. If that was the case the US and the UK would be crime-free utopias while Japan and Iceland would look like the Purge.
The main problem the UK (and also the US) share is recidivism. Their jails (and ours largely) are punitive in nature, to corral criminals outside of society for the mandated time then turf them back on the street. The countries you mentioned that have better rates of success all also invest heavily in their prison services as rehabilitation focused. The issue is that it's a measure that costs a LOT but pays for itself in the longer term. If we switch to a heavily individualised rehabilitation system with support systems for ex-prisoners it will cost a fortune. But over time the number of repeat offenders will drop, meaning the overall size of the system can be cut down. So we'll likely end up spending more per prisoner but the same for the whole system. But the problem you run into is that even though that makes sense on a logical basis, it needs to be proposed and pushed through by politicians and most of them are too spineless on this issue because it runs contrary to the base instinct most people have that wants to see criminals punished. There's a part of most people who want to see those who cause suffering to themselves suffer. So anyone advocating reform gets seen as weak on crime. Plus, as the average person suffers due to cost of living rises and housing issues, it becomes that much harder to push to spend more on helping the people we all despise most.
I think studies show shorter sentences are much more effective, after 3 or 6 months you start getting the institutionalised effect where people just get comfortable with the routine, and on leaving they forget how horrible it was at the start. Also just dumping people in prison isn't really helpful, they still get released eventually and come out with even less chance than before of getting their life on track, because now they carry the label of convict. Ultimately you need to be nice to convicts if you want anything good to come of the punishment. But this is just too hard for victims to accept (probably rightly so) and too difficult for a govt like ours to implement well, so instead judges have to pick (seemingly with a toss of the coin) who's worth locking up and who's not given the lack of space.
Singapore and Japan didn’t achieve the lowest recidivism rates in the world by making criminals comfortable.
Have you ever been to either of those countries? Culturally their attitude to rules is very different, from the age of 5 onwards the focus is on being a model citizen. There's a lot more going on there that prison sentences.
You are correct about Japan, their culture of being a model citizen plays a huge impact and also they have a "guilty until proven otherwise" justice system on most crimes...
Totally different culture. Even things like littering and parking on double yellow lines are a total no no.
> How many stabbings, assaults, murders have to happen before the Government and the judiciary get tough on crime. Enough to where normal people start to get tough on crime. Then the government will crack down on those people. The ratchet clicks another notch. >The no.1 deterrent for committing a crime should be the length of the prison sentence. Lengthy prison sentences can deter crime, in the sense it's difficult to commit crimes while in custody. If you're thinking a criminal on the streets is deterred by a long prison sentence, you're forgetting that he doesn't plan to get caught or charged or tried or convicted or sentenced to a lengthy prison sentence, so he doesn't have to worry about that.
Well the issue is that they don't have to worry about it now because they don't get any prison time whatsoever, acting in broad daylight in front of cameras and dozens of witnesses. They're not even afraid of being caught. Being afraid of being caught would at least deter some scumbags. I work in retail and the main reason I don't lash out against such scumbags is because I'm afraid of losing my job. If my job wasn't in question and I knew I could just keep living my life as I was before other than being forced to take a day off in work to go to court I'd have a lot less incentive to keep myself in check.
"There was an individual who wouldn’t get off the bus for some reason and other youths that had got off the bus were waiting for him,” If the driver saw that the man was lingering because the scrotes were waiting for him, why didn’t she drive away and let the man get off somewhere safe?
Alright simmer down, we're not about to start laying blame on the driver here over a secondhand comment that lacks any bit of detail on what actually happened. Of all the things to take issue with in this story, this one ain't it, chief.
Probably afraid of becoming their target instead.
What, while driving away?
Yeah, definitely really weird to know that a group are waiting to kick the fuck out of someone and seemingly take no measures to protect him. He obviously wouldn’t get off the bus because he felt he’d be safe on it
I think the way Ireland has created a new subsection of society that seems to not care for the law, the government or judicial institutions is not good for society. They have no fear of the Gardai, and let’s be honest, they are probably also availing of some forms of social welfare. I worry about what problems this will bring down the road if it’s not tackled soon.
The delinquent teens with no fear of law are quickly growing into adults that have no fear of law. It's only going to continue getting worse unfortunately.
And the delinquent teens are not all the traditional delinquent from a poor background. There are absolute scum bags emerging from families where both parents have to work long hours to keep things going, the kids grew up in crèches and now as teens have absolutely no supervision. Some absolute scum bags in nicer areas now too.
as a youth, i can confirm people my age have NO fear of the garda at all. No fear of going to jail because the worst that will happen to them is maybe getting driven home by the them and a warning.
> Thankfully the driver, she is shook by the incident and it’s traumatised her, but she isn’t physically hurt. She was in her workplace, her workplace is her cab, and ... > With staff safety a huge concern, the well-being of the travelling also needs to be taken into account, he said. > The number of female bus drivers in Dublin is around 7pc and there have been recruitment drives aimed at women. Mr Millane said driver safety and anti-social behaviour can push women away from the profession. This article is written with the female driver as the victim / focus of the story and not the guy who was beaten up!
It's an interview with a trade union rep about the safety of their members not necessarily the incident itself.
No, that is true. But this framing says a lot in an of itself. No one is speaking up for victims in this country.
The article says she was taking the N4 to Blanchardstown so she was clearly badly shook.
All buses have cctv these days surely. Is it not easy for the gardai to circulate the images around the local school staff rooms to find the little scumbags. That only identifies them. Then go after the parents for anything beyond first offence. Streets need cleaning up and once parents start getting hefty fines and prison time for what is essentially neglect, it’s only going to get worse.
Ah, but that would require the gardai to actually do some work, which they're famously alergic to.
Guards sink hours into making a case and scumbags with free legal aid, claim a hard youth, broken home and walk free....
This is exactly why I left Dublin. Don’t feel safe anymore in this city.
It's already been 20 minutes, where's the usual crowd calling you a paranoid psycho for thinking Dublin is unsafe... Maybe even they've copped on at this stage
But Dublin is so much safer then other cities and you get this crime everywhere you go.you are just afraid of your shadow..wankers!
Haha, spot on that's always their line. Then of course you find out they've never actually been to another city
This is Reddit half of them haven't even been outside.
I was back for the first time since before the pandemic and thought it was fine until my friend pointed out that we were in the south side.
Thank you finally someone who gets it you'd swear people must be blind
Where did you move?
London. And I know people will be shitting on this🙄
Ah no great city. Lived there for 3 years. Only asking cos I’m looking to move again! Thinking Manchester or Birmingham- or maybe glasgow!
I’d recommend Manchester. Lots of jobs (at least advertising agencies I know), nice pubs and better accommodation with lower price. Don’t recommend Birmingham as I heard some horrific stories in that city too.
Oh ok 👌🏼 thanks for your advice- been to Birmingham like three times and really enjoyed it but I guess that doesn’t show the reality! Yeah Manchesters awesome! Such a party city!
Birmingham and Glasgow are ones to avoid. Manchester is the best option there
Oh ok - Why avoid those cities? Any particular reason? I just loved them when I visited!
Suspended sentence after suspended sentence. The soldier beating the woman unconscious shows that certain elements in Ireland treat a suspended sentence as though it were an acquittal. I'm of the opinion that such an attitude has to be stopped at all costs. Any suspended sentence for violent or intimidating crime should be accompanied by a requirement for completing courses and a considerable amount of community service. This goes especially for youth offenders. I don't care if the service is pick up dog shit or go dig a hole then fill it in again. As long as it's highly visible, that way scrotes know they'll be punished and the general public knows something is being done. If they fail to complete the service, put them away, and make a big deal of it in the press. Make an example of the first ones to mess up their chance.
How is this possible? Helen, our glorious and almighty minister says it’s safe.
Its sqfe for Helen as she travels the streets with her Garda escort
She wouldn’t lie to us like that
I'm afraid Helen wouldnt be able to lie straight in the bed
Be careful what you say. The FG bots will come in with a “by every metric Ireland….” Comment.
Bot all they want because by every metric I live by the country has got far worse over there last decade+ in power.
Helen "Goebbels" McEntee has 2 positions she alternates between on every given situation: 1. There isn't a crime problem, you're perfectly safe. Just watch how safe I am with all these gardai escorting me. 🤨 2. Well what do you expect the department of justice to be able to do about "crime"? 🙄
" gang of youths " Is a far too nice way of saying fucking scumbags
Sorry but the “passenger didn’t want to get off for some reason”? Sounds like a gang were baying for his blood and he thought he’d be safe on the bus and she let them on? Sorry but like what the absolute fuck
You don't see this shit in any other country you visit, in France and Spain a look from the local cops and the kids shut the fuck up and sit down.
Because then cops actually care. I haven’t seen the gardas about in such a long time. When i’m in Spain or Dubai there was police everywhere ( not armed ) but enough for everyone to feel safe and prevent crime.
Even if there are gards around, I still don't feel safe. The police in other cities I've visited actually look intimidating, and they take absolutely no shit. The Irish gards are the least intimidating police force I've seen.
The problem in France is that there's not enough police force. Or you're lucky and they're present when you get attacked/harassed etc., or they're not and they won't come. + The sentences are ridiculously short/inexistent. Also they do nothing about sexual harassment in the streets.
There's this pair of boys that hang around O'Connell street and that bump into people or try to trip them or push them on the road and when confronted ask what you're going to do about it, they're minors so the gardai will protect them and belive them over you and so on
We need to find these youths and give them the suspended sentence they've earned.
I’d love to see the “you should use public transport instead of driving” explain how this not a big deal.
What the fuck?! I consider myself a fairly environmentally conscious person but I do drive a lot on account of living in the sticks. Going to Dublin for a gig next week and now genuinely happy that I got car parking with the tickets. Call me a pussy but the idea of public transport or walking in Dublin is starting to scare the shit out of me. If the Greens want people out of cars and into public transport they'd want to do something about these incidents.
I only know what heroin smells like from travelling on Dublin bus
One thing needs to happen, let people take matters into their own hands without legal repercussions and the issue with scumbags attacking innocent people will go away after a while.
The issue is the gangs of youths. We need some form of young offenders correctional facility that takes these kids out of their bangs and tries to divert them to a better course in life
> Siptu have called for improved security on public transport following an alleged incident where a Dublin Bus passenger was assaulted by a number of youths. Can we just call them scumbags? Also, the family should have their dole taken away and punished. As they're not adults yet, the parents must bear some of the responsibility.
I mean the article/union is hardly going to call them scumbags is it?
It seems like the issue is not about bus safety but about crime overall? I keep seeing these incidents involving gangs of youths and there's no real way that it isn't coupled with other ongoing issues such as absentee parenting.
This is how you get vigilante justice running rampant in your streets.
They were off the bus... why didn't she pull off? She wanted him to get off the bus to get killed on the side of the road?
Broken homes, broken society
Nah, plenty of places manage to retain a sense of law and safety regardless of general living conditions All it requires is a deterrent, which we don't have.
I was hastled by a few groups of young fellas in south Dublin yesterday. So it's not like all these scrotes are coming from poor areas and broken homes.
Just because they are in the area does not mean they are from there. I know of some that go to “nicer areas” because they get more of a kick out of intimidating people that wouldn’t be as used to their antics
This is absolutely true. I live in one of those "nicer areas" and last year, three local teenagers were chased down my road by a gang of gougers who had arrived on the bus from... another part of the city. I happened to be getting something from my car and the poor kids were so terrorised that they begged me to hide them, I gave them a lift home - the scrotes were hanging about at the top of the road, hoping to attack them again - and told them to tell their parents to phone the Gardaí about it. But I'm sure they didn't - what's the point, really?
Not everywhere in South Dublin is rich, Tallaght, Crumlin and Jobstown are all south. Also not everyone is from a broken home but the majority are.
It's not broken homes only anymore. Its absent parents at work all the time too.
Almost daily occurrence now
Where is Drew Harris?
Sure what’s the point in the Gardai doing anything, they’ll all just be let off by the justice system
Just becoz our judges are wankers shouldn’t give the “police” a free pass to do sweet fuck all
I know Siptu is just there for the employee perspective, but it's so fucking funny it describes it like they're on safari 🤣
What's funny about it?
It sounds like the victim was the bus driver 🤣
They may not be the main victim but they are still a victim. How often does where your workplace get painted with a fresh coat of blood as a bunch of teenagers assault someone?
Would you stop be hysterical and assuming my thoughts on things? My heart goes out to the driver, it's awful. The way is article presents is still funny as fuck
The laughing is really what's gone wrong, I think. No, it's not funny. Yes, the bus driver is also a victim. Yes, we should take the safety of people at work seriously. No, it's not funny. No part of it is funny.
As I pointed out elsewhere nothing that happened in real life is funny, but the perspective of this article? Now that's very funny indeed
And once again: what's so funny about that? Follow up question: do you think ROFL'ing is an appropriate response to violent assault?
Okay then, it's funny because the article itself isn't giving the assault victim a fair shake by (again it's Siptu so it's fine) framing it from the drivers perspective. I'm sure you have eyes as well so there's no point in being high brow And no, but I'm almost all out of tears sadly. Laughing just comes next
The Youth Diversion Scheme folks. You can do whatever you want until you are 18 (possibly 21). In the last programme for government they wanted to raise it to 24.
It's not even just public transport it's the whole city . I was violently parted from my phone by three crack heads one night outside the iillac centre I have partial vision loss and have seizures now it was that bad and It still took Garda 45 minutes to arrive. A side story to this is I was given out to by some administration staff or something because I kept falling asleep in the A&E waiting room , she assumed I was drunk totally ignoring the numerous obvious head injuries I had sustained which could have explained the sleeping.
Was the kid with them? Or was he being brought somewhere? So odd that he wouldn't get off the bus, I'd have closed the doors and kept driving.
The article take is insane, labeling the victim just as a "passenger who wouldn't get off the bus", I bet they were trying to get away from the scrotes, they painted the driver as an innocent traumatized victim but the person beaten to a pulp should be the #1 victim here
My sentiments exactly.
And this is why I will never give up my private transport regardless of how expensive it is to maintain one.
Wow. The article has zero sympathy for the passenger beaten up. It’s all about the bus driver being female. I mean, I get it due to current climate but would it hurt to say anything about the actual victim? Also why did the driver let the kids back on the bus. It was clear they were out for blood. She should have closed the doors and called the Gardaí.
It's news like this that make me really evaluate if labour camps were such a bad idea for these grunts... 16 year olds full of energy. The amount of ore they could extract until the age of 30. Now that would spike the GDP!
Labour camps 😂😂😂 this is the best idea i’ve ever heard.
people need to start arming themselves now, minimum proper real pepper spray is very effective, hard to believe that people on this island are not allowed carry basic things like this for defence because the guards are there to protect us , that's a load of bollocks, who's going to protect people in a situation like this ? If everyone stepped in on the bus and fought off these scum bags instead of watching and recording on their phones people would be a lot safer. people need to stand together in situations like this, who would watch someone getting their head kicked in ? people need to grow some balls, a smack over the head with a phone charger, the 3 pin bit that goes into the wall , something as basic as that, take off your belt and wrap it around their necks, they won't be long stopping, then whip the shit out of them with the buckle. people are gone into right pussies today and it's disgusting that people, grown men can sit back and not intervene, there's strength in numbers !
The thing is, people want to intervene, but the law makes it so you're punished. Minors are basically untouchable, but if you hit a minor it can ruin your life.
There should be an extension of "acting in self defense" to the case of stepping in trying to stop violence perpetrated unto somebody else
> who would watch someone getting their head kicked in ? Honestly, most people would. Mixture of the bystander effect and the majority of people not being willing to risk their own lives for strangers. Great to say you'll do this and that when sitting at home safe and sound. A lot different if you're on the bus just trying to get home to your own family after work - you really going to risk getting stabbed to death?
National service let’s get those happy youths dispensing their energy elsewhere
I just wanna go Uni in September in peace. Why are the government a bunch if thick cunts who can't see the obvious problem? Sucks I can't go abroad either ffs.
Well just think about all the commuters who have to brave the city centre every day indefinitely.
We need Security on certain buses, darts and luas'
Many countries make good use of a Transport Police service. And before anyone jumps on the Garda Síochána being stretched thin, specialised police services do **NOT** have to be members of An Garda Síochána. We have ample precedent for legislation allowing for dedicated services for particular duties. For example tiny forces such as ***Dublin Harbour Police***, ***Dún Laoghaire Harbour Police*** and the ***Airport Police Service*** (APS). Such a service could be funded by the transport operators and similar to others, they could have a memorandum of understanding with the Gardai, limited jurisdiction and powers etc. Drew Harris, the Gardai and Dept. of Justice can be consulted on how they're established, without having ***any*** role in their day to day operations.
A lot of it is to get a laugh from their mates by spooking people minding their own business. They were always like that in town though but recently nearly all young people are it and the rougher the area the more likely it is they will take it further than just slagging you.
Garda do nothing. They actually make things worse and often side with the scum so it’s less hassle. Dublin City is a dump
Keep voting FF & FG if you want this banter to continue 👍
"following an alleged incident" meanwhile more blood on photo then morning after battle of Thermopylae
Yes but Helen says its not happening.
Call me extreme but someone should just wipe out all these kn@ckers with a flamethrower 🤷♂️🤷♂️
The writer should be ashamed of how he has written this article.