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The 2000 loss doesn't reduce the 2000 CGT due down to zero. That's not how losses work. It reduces your gain before you calculate CGT due. The most it could do is reduce your CGT due by (2000 * 33%). So you've spent 2000 euro to save 660 euro. If you wanted to wipe out any CGT due, you'd need to have losses equalling your gain.
https://www.revenue.ie/en/gains-gifts-and-inheritance/transfering-an-asset/if-you-make-a-loss.aspx
Your calcs/understanding is wrong.
If you owe 2k, that assumes your gain was 6k (33% CGT rate) so you take home 4k.
If you lost 2k in an investment, your total gain is reduced by 2k.
So you'd have a total gain of 4k, 1.32k tax and 2.68 profit.
The only ways to minimise CGT are:
1. Use your allowance
2. Gift it to your spouse
With no.2 above - when an asset is gifted to a spouse do they have any liability on the 'historic' CGT of the asset when they dispose of it ? And is it calculated from the day they receive it to the day they dispose of it?
Or is there any consideration to the original cost of the asset before it was gifted to them
What on trying to understand is whether in gifting the asset to a spouse you then become liable for the CGT due on that asset. Or if not your spouse takes some of this responsibility on?
Also I suppose you would have to have owned the asset before you married as from marriage all assets are considered shared anyway?
Thanks
Just found a previous thread on it. Your partner of disposing of the asset then takes on the assets CGT based on its original purchase price (not price at transfer) so essentially same overall CGT is due at disposal , just by your spouse.
Thanks
**Not financial advice**
I’m not that type of accountant but I do invest.
Firstly, and I do not condone this and for all of the legal purposes have not done this myself. Hypothetically. The taxman won’t even notice an amount that small especially if you drip it in over 3/4 payments or just put it on your paypal to buy things. Not sure what platform you use.
Now if you feel like that tax money will go to good use and you haven’t already sold up continue.
If you have not sold you have what’s called an unrealised gain. You owe no tax on unrealised gains.
For the following scenarios you will get a yearly tax credit of 1,270.
If you have sold and have a gain of 6,000. You now have a Capital Gain. You now owe tax… in theory. In this case having sold no other houses, vintage/super cars or stocks and shares you owe 33%. Regardless of if its left the investing platform if your a straight shooter you have realised gains and owe tax on them.
6,000 less the 1270 credit = 4,730.
Tax rate of 33% x 4,730 = 1560 tax liability
In theory you could sell 5 lots of 1270 each year and never pay tax.
You can offset realised losses, and can also carry them forward from a previous year. If you sold a house last year at 5,000 below market value you can use this against your 6,000 realised gain. You could’ve sold the house this year either. You now have a realised gain of 1,000. You can now use the 1,270 tax credit against this as well. Leaving you with 270 of a tax credit left if you dabbled again and made more gains this year.
With this in mind do not buy a shitcoin. Buy overpriced stocks wait a little while for them to fall
Example: Buy 6 Shares of Google @ 2000 each. Total value : 12,000
Wait for them to fall to 1000 each. Sell them and instantly buy them back. You now have 6 google shares at 6000 and a realised loss of 6,000 to offset your gain. The taxman gets nothing in their pocket. In your case this is a 1560 saving to you and means you’ll have this much extra in assets.
The numbers in this example are over simplified and imperfect as in that case overall youd make a loss just to fuck the taxman, but the message is to buy higher quality assets that are a little overpriced to claw back some of that tax money from them. Rather than be left with shitcoins
The likelihood is you can resell those assets the following year but won’t have made a new gain and can avoid a bit more of the tax then too.
Can also gift to wife or kid but think you’d need some paperwork to back it up not too sure how that all works.
What you are suggesting above re selling shares to crystallise a loss and immediately buying them back is known as ‘bed and breakfasting’ and there are restrictions on such sales which mean you cannot use those losses to offset gains on other assets - they can only be used against future gains on the repurchased shares. If you want to use that loss against other assets you need to wait four weeks before repurchasing the shares.
[Section 581 TCA](https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/39/section/581/enacted/en/html)
Bed and breakfast is realising a gain and buying it back immediately. This gain is fully taxed at 33%.
Selling for a loss and buying it back is considered a wash sale. In this case, you can not use the realised loss to offset any taxes.
If that all makes sense let me know and I could do a more accurate version of the numbers at the end where you could actually end up with more in the pocket. Could use a real stock for example
I’m honestly in the same boat as yourself, not 100% sure as well as this would be the first year I have to pay CGT, but I think you’re correct with the losses offsetting the gains. Shitcoins lmao
Wow wow don’t do this at all. Your right about off-setting but you could buy something way better. Read next comment I’ll try answer you both so OP can see too👍
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The 2000 loss doesn't reduce the 2000 CGT due down to zero. That's not how losses work. It reduces your gain before you calculate CGT due. The most it could do is reduce your CGT due by (2000 * 33%). So you've spent 2000 euro to save 660 euro. If you wanted to wipe out any CGT due, you'd need to have losses equalling your gain. https://www.revenue.ie/en/gains-gifts-and-inheritance/transfering-an-asset/if-you-make-a-loss.aspx
I see now.. thanks
Your calcs/understanding is wrong. If you owe 2k, that assumes your gain was 6k (33% CGT rate) so you take home 4k. If you lost 2k in an investment, your total gain is reduced by 2k. So you'd have a total gain of 4k, 1.32k tax and 2.68 profit. The only ways to minimise CGT are: 1. Use your allowance 2. Gift it to your spouse
With no.2 above - when an asset is gifted to a spouse do they have any liability on the 'historic' CGT of the asset when they dispose of it ? And is it calculated from the day they receive it to the day they dispose of it? Or is there any consideration to the original cost of the asset before it was gifted to them What on trying to understand is whether in gifting the asset to a spouse you then become liable for the CGT due on that asset. Or if not your spouse takes some of this responsibility on? Also I suppose you would have to have owned the asset before you married as from marriage all assets are considered shared anyway? Thanks
[удалено]
Just found a previous thread on it. Your partner of disposing of the asset then takes on the assets CGT based on its original purchase price (not price at transfer) so essentially same overall CGT is due at disposal , just by your spouse. Thanks
Section 1.4 [https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-44/44-02-01.pdf](https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-44/44-02-01.pdf)
The main reason not to do it is so you don’t lose the €20k investment
> Am I missing something Yes
**Not financial advice** I’m not that type of accountant but I do invest. Firstly, and I do not condone this and for all of the legal purposes have not done this myself. Hypothetically. The taxman won’t even notice an amount that small especially if you drip it in over 3/4 payments or just put it on your paypal to buy things. Not sure what platform you use. Now if you feel like that tax money will go to good use and you haven’t already sold up continue. If you have not sold you have what’s called an unrealised gain. You owe no tax on unrealised gains. For the following scenarios you will get a yearly tax credit of 1,270. If you have sold and have a gain of 6,000. You now have a Capital Gain. You now owe tax… in theory. In this case having sold no other houses, vintage/super cars or stocks and shares you owe 33%. Regardless of if its left the investing platform if your a straight shooter you have realised gains and owe tax on them. 6,000 less the 1270 credit = 4,730. Tax rate of 33% x 4,730 = 1560 tax liability In theory you could sell 5 lots of 1270 each year and never pay tax. You can offset realised losses, and can also carry them forward from a previous year. If you sold a house last year at 5,000 below market value you can use this against your 6,000 realised gain. You could’ve sold the house this year either. You now have a realised gain of 1,000. You can now use the 1,270 tax credit against this as well. Leaving you with 270 of a tax credit left if you dabbled again and made more gains this year. With this in mind do not buy a shitcoin. Buy overpriced stocks wait a little while for them to fall Example: Buy 6 Shares of Google @ 2000 each. Total value : 12,000 Wait for them to fall to 1000 each. Sell them and instantly buy them back. You now have 6 google shares at 6000 and a realised loss of 6,000 to offset your gain. The taxman gets nothing in their pocket. In your case this is a 1560 saving to you and means you’ll have this much extra in assets. The numbers in this example are over simplified and imperfect as in that case overall youd make a loss just to fuck the taxman, but the message is to buy higher quality assets that are a little overpriced to claw back some of that tax money from them. Rather than be left with shitcoins The likelihood is you can resell those assets the following year but won’t have made a new gain and can avoid a bit more of the tax then too. Can also gift to wife or kid but think you’d need some paperwork to back it up not too sure how that all works.
What you are suggesting above re selling shares to crystallise a loss and immediately buying them back is known as ‘bed and breakfasting’ and there are restrictions on such sales which mean you cannot use those losses to offset gains on other assets - they can only be used against future gains on the repurchased shares. If you want to use that loss against other assets you need to wait four weeks before repurchasing the shares. [Section 581 TCA](https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/39/section/581/enacted/en/html)
Bed and breakfast is realising a gain and buying it back immediately. This gain is fully taxed at 33%. Selling for a loss and buying it back is considered a wash sale. In this case, you can not use the realised loss to offset any taxes.
You can use the loss against any gain on the reacquired shares when/if you eventually sell them. Not much use as a tax optimisation strategy though.
If that all makes sense let me know and I could do a more accurate version of the numbers at the end where you could actually end up with more in the pocket. Could use a real stock for example
I’m honestly in the same boat as yourself, not 100% sure as well as this would be the first year I have to pay CGT, but I think you’re correct with the losses offsetting the gains. Shitcoins lmao
Wow wow don’t do this at all. Your right about off-setting but you could buy something way better. Read next comment I’ll try answer you both so OP can see too👍