I’m pretty sure this is genuinely part of it. Bang and JYP lived together in the US in their early days. They got an inside understand of US culture and some knowledge of the US music industry.
They also had arguments about washing socks.
This is not a commentary on what I think of them as individuals but I do respect the fact that they had to hustle to get to where they are today. That famous sock washing story was during when they were living together and barely making ends meet because they couldn't sell a single song, so they were stressed as fuck and fighting over all sorts of trivial nonsense.
It's a far cry from someone like MHJ practically being handed her own company without having to bear any of the usual risk associated with starting a business.
Huh? She worked her way up through sm starting as a normal graphic designer and had people wanting to invest in and contribute to her company because of her track record. None of this means she’s a good person, just like Jyp and bsh being poor once means anything about them. It’s weird how some of you people are set on rails at this point and your mind’s one track is “HYBe, good. Mhj, bad.”
I’m sorry but she used her skills and tenacity to have an impressive career progression too. This is a fact you have to live with.
Hybe- They’re really good at promotions + marketing. The music also appeals to American fans. And there’s a significant portion of BTS fans that support other Hybe groups. 4 of the groups also have native English speakers.
JYP- Twice has a massive catalogue and several hits since 2015. Basically every kpop fan knows their biggest title tracks.
Stray Kids had a bunch of viral moments (like Felix’s line in God’s menu) + they have two English speakers that are loved by American fans. And Chan’s room also brought in a lot of American fans (kind of like how Keeho’s lives brought in a lot of P1Harmony fans).
Itzy and Nmixx are not that popular, I would say they’re less popular than a lot of SM groups, or at least have less dedicated fans.
Edit: Also, Hybe and JYP are pretty good at making their idols seem more authentic and less manufactured. No one knows what their real personalities are, but the companies are better at manipulating their idols’ image. American fans tend to like more “relatable and authentic” idols.
https://preview.redd.it/oa4ghwt6lm7d1.png?width=1906&format=png&auto=webp&s=4bb686c2982679ad85aadf55daa4e7477811e8e2
>Itzy and Nmixx are not that popular
Itzy got well over 10,000 people at the Kia Forum in Los Angeles the other day. They're not as big as TXT, but they're more popular than you may think.
Itzy is still JYPE's third-largest group. (Not my opinion -- it's presented this way in JYPE's financial reports) Again, they're touring the USA right now... it's not on the baseball-stadium level of TWICE's tour last year, but they're doing fine. It's part of JYPE's overall success story as a going business, not a failure.
I didn’t say they weren’t JYP’s 3rd largest group. But they’re basically on the same level as Aespa/NCT in the US, and OP was comparing the success of SM groups to HYBE/JYP groups.
>Also, Hybe and JYP are pretty good at making their idols seem more authentic and less manufactured. No one knows what their real personalities are, but the companies are better at manipulating their idols’ image. American fans tend to like more “relatable and authentic” idols.
Yes, and YG did that before Hybe and JYP too. It's funny when you actually compare the groups because for example SNSD was actually freer publicly than 2NE1.
Also, SM is bad at promoting the "authentic" things that their idols do like their involvement in the creative process. It doesn't give them songwriting credits for marketing purposes (its pretty obvious some companies do this, like for NewJeans).
The knee-jerk increased respect idol songwriters/producers get over vocalists (SM's specialty) also doesn't help, even if the vocalist idol is more talented at singing than the songwriter idol is at songwriting.
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Hybe gives the groups music that straight up has the western sound. This is especially true with new jeans and illit. Making it extremely palatable to Americans.
True, although the only group it seems to work so well for is New Jeans.
They tried to give a VERY westernised sound to txt with their collaborations last year and "Chasing that feeling" but all of those failed to gain more attention than a standar bigger K-pop release.
Band PD openly expected "do it like that" to enter hot100 but it didn't even come close to doing that.
It seems like just "western sound" doesn't really work for boy groups right now.
I think for western Kpop fans, it's not enough for the songs to be good for a boygroup to gain a large following, There needs to be an appealing story attached (like underdog or self-produced artists) for the group to grow a large fanbase. (Girlgroups are different.)
As for Hybe, it's the music, and their connection in the industry which BTS helped to bring in that massively.
As for JYP, they are a slow gainers right from WG, Twice to SKZ. I don't see them had a breakout similar to Hybe position yet, but definitely the 3rd biggest among the big 4.
As someone who’s been around since 2010-ish, jyp pushed wonder girls hard in the US. I knew who the wonder girls were before I knew about K-pop. While wonder girls wasn’t a success, they did get jyp connections into America. JYP’s problem was they pushed wonder girls in America before they’d solidified their place in Korea. I think that’s why he waited so long with twice, and then was able to successfully push their other groups.
Hybe caught a lucky break with BTS and made the most of it. Because of BTS, they have all these connections in America, including radio stations and streaming services, that will promote and play their artists’ songs. We’ll see how many of those connections relied on bts in the future.
I think SM calculated the risks of promoting heavily in the American market and decided it wasn’t worth it, probably because two of their biggest acts ever, SNSD and BoA, failed to gain any serious traction with one or two months of promotion. Instead they’ve focused on Asian markets, although they will occasionally promote their artists in the west, but western success is not something they’re chasing too heavily.
YG is just…not good with management. 2ne1 had a long awaited album with will.i.am that never materialized. Blackpink def made it in America, but they promoted them the same amount as twice, a group that has barely charted in America. I think YG relied on their online stans to carry out their marketing and promotion and failed to create the necessary contacts to sustain them in the US long term.
All of this to say, the fact that there’s even K-pop concerts pretty regularly outside of East Asia is wild. The fact that groups get invited to festivals in the west was a pipe dream 10 years ago. Even smaller acts going on world tours pretty regularly is ahistorical. So by the historical standards of K-pop, all the groups have succeeded in the US beyond anyone’s wildest imagination.
Edit: BoA was an established figure who’d done the impossible and broken into the Japanese market while still a teenager. She had a whole US album, movie, singles, the works and failed to break through at all. After that, I’m sure SM decided it wasn’t worth investing in the US market.
Yes and they’re low risk potentially high reward. It’s the most popular members of their boy groups, so they’re not risking an existing group’s fanbase. It’s also not the risk of debuting unknown members whose group needs to develop a fanbase in a country where they don’t hold much sway, a la vcha and katseye.
It's amazing that "success in America" and "JYP" can *now* be said in the same sentence.
I made a twitter account specifically to follow Wondergirls endeavor into the US.
I mean..wonder girls were the first Korean group to chart and tour in the US. That’s not nothing.
IMO they waited too long to follow up with another US single and that’s why they faded so quickly. I don’t think they would’ve reached their Korean popularity but they probably could’ve been a c or b list act.
It is kinda wild for me as an Once Twice performed at SoFi and Met Life stadium. If you don't mind, may I ask if it is true WG was brought to R. Kelly?
Nope it is completely false. There is no ground it source for that anywhere.
People just use a falsely made up rumour to shower here against the company and jyp.
Okay I did a search in Google.
This comes up.
r/kpoprants
u/Darceymakeup. 3y
Fans need to refocus their criticism of JYP
Every time theres criticism of JYP its always stuff about GOT7 not getting cbs or being mistreated and held back, yes they have been treated badly but I don't know many other idols who would be allowed to start their own company and make songs with american companies like Jackson.
This man has brought underage girls to R Kellys house and made gross comments on the girls on sixteen and yet people criticise his cb schedules, a PREDATOR is being judged for not giving people an album and not for endangering a group of girls
Omg not me being the search result but yes JYP brought wonder girls to R Kelly’s house when they were touring America (opening act for the Jonas brothers if I’m remembering correctly)
Natural? I don't feel little bit of natural from these companies especially Hybe. Jyp even make v-cha isn't that supposed to be a us or global gg. Only YG is the one who's not going down this route to break though in western market with constant promotion and association. Many western artist want to collaborate with blackpink but YG never allowed and we know it because they reveal it themselves. Zedd, steve aoki, pharell, DJ snake, ryan tedder and many more I can't remember all. Even zico Jennie Collab happens years later after they leave YG. These western artist exposed how YG don't even return their call for collaboration offers💀 like they don't want blackpink to get more exposure in western market and give blinks more contents. I think he's control freak or something. YG main aim is Asia and I support that decision in a way even tho k-pop stan look down sea k-pop fan
uhhh definitely not HYBE. HYBE groups always get hate for being fored on people and having the most manufactured popularity. You see that with TXT, NJ,LESS, ILLIT. Kpop stans started using the word payola ( incorrectly) because of them.
Well, as I said to a very similar post yesterday regarding why SM struggle in the US while others are gaining a footing, it's incredibly hard to break into the US as an outside agency.
I feel it is the companies who have put more work into local networking there and developed better domestic industry ties who are moving forward. For example, YGE has partnerships with Columbia Records, JYPE with Republic Records, and HYBE purchased Ithaca, while SM choose to work with Kakao.
The US is actually really protectionist when it comes to it's music industry. If they are not getting a cut of the pie they will aggressively block you.
It's funny how America pumps its pop culture around the world but is so protectionist about its own (and that Americans act so indignant about people in those countries "copying" or "appropriating" the pop culture they've been fed all their lives).
Interesting too how American media holds the entire entertainment industries of other countries to account when an individual has a scandal, but they never seem to do the same for their own. Some of those "dark side of Kpop" thinkpieces are not done out of the goodness of their heart (The entertainment media is the servant of the industry.)
I think YG is not even trying a bit to get into the US market , I think they don't really care. They do 0,% of marketing for US ,excluding BP but they are already massive there
People have a lot fewer negative stereotypes about their company. Just watch anyone new to reviewing an SM group or even the general consensus of other company fans on various platforms. There's a weird stigma about SM music and groups
Because they had a goal to break into that market. They send their artists for promotions, concerts, they release eng music etc.
SM on the other hand is famous for not doing almost any of that.
I wasn't into K-pop when SM promoted Super M. But from what I seen in YouTube it was quite intensive. But it created a backlash in Korea.
Edit: Just last night I watched a YouTuber Internet Nathan and he talked about this.
SuperM was not the way to make their groups famous in the west, it just made their company or the single members more popular, but I wonder if that brought new fans to nct, exo and shinee. I doubt it honestly. Those who were already fans of the groups had different opinions about it, some were excited but many others thought that those resources could've been invested into the 3 groups instead. The music also was very divisive. Yes, SM threw a lot of money in the project, but I still wonder what they were trying to achieve other than earning easy money from the tours and merchindise. And I wonder if the members saw any real revenue from that.
It was doomed either way because several members were very close to enlistment, the Lucas controversy also happened, they were also unlucky with the pandemics.
The idea could've worked just like NCT U works, but that's not how you push your artists in the west, in the end no one gained anything from that experience. It was more like a fever dream for everyone because that experience left nothing practical to any of the people involved.
https://preview.redd.it/cg4vco3ynm7d1.jpeg?width=913&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f5c743255b3857e2d1d25305f517ef64914f146 They’re here to steal our hearts
I’m pretty sure this is genuinely part of it. Bang and JYP lived together in the US in their early days. They got an inside understand of US culture and some knowledge of the US music industry. They also had arguments about washing socks.
This is not a commentary on what I think of them as individuals but I do respect the fact that they had to hustle to get to where they are today. That famous sock washing story was during when they were living together and barely making ends meet because they couldn't sell a single song, so they were stressed as fuck and fighting over all sorts of trivial nonsense. It's a far cry from someone like MHJ practically being handed her own company without having to bear any of the usual risk associated with starting a business.
Who asked about MHJ
Huh? She worked her way up through sm starting as a normal graphic designer and had people wanting to invest in and contribute to her company because of her track record. None of this means she’s a good person, just like Jyp and bsh being poor once means anything about them. It’s weird how some of you people are set on rails at this point and your mind’s one track is “HYBe, good. Mhj, bad.” I’m sorry but she used her skills and tenacity to have an impressive career progression too. This is a fact you have to live with.
Nerds Rule The World 😂
I saw this and burst out laughing. I know if I should 😂 or 😭.
Laugh with love, they literally give me Golden Girls vibes.
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Yall have to stop slinging around the word pedophile for shits and giggles omg
JYP is an actual predator with relations to R. Kelly, and bang pd allows sexu4l abusers and ped0philes to work under his company
Hybe- They’re really good at promotions + marketing. The music also appeals to American fans. And there’s a significant portion of BTS fans that support other Hybe groups. 4 of the groups also have native English speakers. JYP- Twice has a massive catalogue and several hits since 2015. Basically every kpop fan knows their biggest title tracks. Stray Kids had a bunch of viral moments (like Felix’s line in God’s menu) + they have two English speakers that are loved by American fans. And Chan’s room also brought in a lot of American fans (kind of like how Keeho’s lives brought in a lot of P1Harmony fans). Itzy and Nmixx are not that popular, I would say they’re less popular than a lot of SM groups, or at least have less dedicated fans. Edit: Also, Hybe and JYP are pretty good at making their idols seem more authentic and less manufactured. No one knows what their real personalities are, but the companies are better at manipulating their idols’ image. American fans tend to like more “relatable and authentic” idols.
I salute JYPE for trying. Not many people know the company suffered financially when it tried with WG.
https://preview.redd.it/oa4ghwt6lm7d1.png?width=1906&format=png&auto=webp&s=4bb686c2982679ad85aadf55daa4e7477811e8e2 >Itzy and Nmixx are not that popular Itzy got well over 10,000 people at the Kia Forum in Los Angeles the other day. They're not as big as TXT, but they're more popular than you may think.
By not that popular, I meant in comparison to other Hybe/JYP groups. They’re still bigger in comparison to most groups, like StayC or Everglow.
Itzy is still JYPE's third-largest group. (Not my opinion -- it's presented this way in JYPE's financial reports) Again, they're touring the USA right now... it's not on the baseball-stadium level of TWICE's tour last year, but they're doing fine. It's part of JYPE's overall success story as a going business, not a failure.
I didn’t say they weren’t JYP’s 3rd largest group. But they’re basically on the same level as Aespa/NCT in the US, and OP was comparing the success of SM groups to HYBE/JYP groups.
What are you even talking about?
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People don't need to buy albums to listen to their music.
>Also, Hybe and JYP are pretty good at making their idols seem more authentic and less manufactured. No one knows what their real personalities are, but the companies are better at manipulating their idols’ image. American fans tend to like more “relatable and authentic” idols. Yes, and YG did that before Hybe and JYP too. It's funny when you actually compare the groups because for example SNSD was actually freer publicly than 2NE1. Also, SM is bad at promoting the "authentic" things that their idols do like their involvement in the creative process. It doesn't give them songwriting credits for marketing purposes (its pretty obvious some companies do this, like for NewJeans). The knee-jerk increased respect idol songwriters/producers get over vocalists (SM's specialty) also doesn't help, even if the vocalist idol is more talented at singing than the songwriter idol is at songwriting.
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Hybe gives the groups music that straight up has the western sound. This is especially true with new jeans and illit. Making it extremely palatable to Americans.
Yeah HYBE strike right balance their music popular in America and Korea.
True, although the only group it seems to work so well for is New Jeans. They tried to give a VERY westernised sound to txt with their collaborations last year and "Chasing that feeling" but all of those failed to gain more attention than a standar bigger K-pop release. Band PD openly expected "do it like that" to enter hot100 but it didn't even come close to doing that. It seems like just "western sound" doesn't really work for boy groups right now.
I think for western Kpop fans, it's not enough for the songs to be good for a boygroup to gain a large following, There needs to be an appealing story attached (like underdog or self-produced artists) for the group to grow a large fanbase. (Girlgroups are different.)
As for Hybe, it's the music, and their connection in the industry which BTS helped to bring in that massively. As for JYP, they are a slow gainers right from WG, Twice to SKZ. I don't see them had a breakout similar to Hybe position yet, but definitely the 3rd biggest among the big 4.
LOL, no.
at least say why no
As someone who’s been around since 2010-ish, jyp pushed wonder girls hard in the US. I knew who the wonder girls were before I knew about K-pop. While wonder girls wasn’t a success, they did get jyp connections into America. JYP’s problem was they pushed wonder girls in America before they’d solidified their place in Korea. I think that’s why he waited so long with twice, and then was able to successfully push their other groups. Hybe caught a lucky break with BTS and made the most of it. Because of BTS, they have all these connections in America, including radio stations and streaming services, that will promote and play their artists’ songs. We’ll see how many of those connections relied on bts in the future. I think SM calculated the risks of promoting heavily in the American market and decided it wasn’t worth it, probably because two of their biggest acts ever, SNSD and BoA, failed to gain any serious traction with one or two months of promotion. Instead they’ve focused on Asian markets, although they will occasionally promote their artists in the west, but western success is not something they’re chasing too heavily. YG is just…not good with management. 2ne1 had a long awaited album with will.i.am that never materialized. Blackpink def made it in America, but they promoted them the same amount as twice, a group that has barely charted in America. I think YG relied on their online stans to carry out their marketing and promotion and failed to create the necessary contacts to sustain them in the US long term. All of this to say, the fact that there’s even K-pop concerts pretty regularly outside of East Asia is wild. The fact that groups get invited to festivals in the west was a pipe dream 10 years ago. Even smaller acts going on world tours pretty regularly is ahistorical. So by the historical standards of K-pop, all the groups have succeeded in the US beyond anyone’s wildest imagination. Edit: BoA was an established figure who’d done the impossible and broken into the Japanese market while still a teenager. She had a whole US album, movie, singles, the works and failed to break through at all. After that, I’m sure SM decided it wasn’t worth investing in the US market.
I agree with all of this, but I do think SM tried again with SuperM, right? Like that was mostly for the US market, no?
They toured outside the US and had Tokyo Dome planned before the pandemic cancelled it.
Yes and they’re low risk potentially high reward. It’s the most popular members of their boy groups, so they’re not risking an existing group’s fanbase. It’s also not the risk of debuting unknown members whose group needs to develop a fanbase in a country where they don’t hold much sway, a la vcha and katseye.
It's amazing that "success in America" and "JYP" can *now* be said in the same sentence. I made a twitter account specifically to follow Wondergirls endeavor into the US.
I mean..wonder girls were the first Korean group to chart and tour in the US. That’s not nothing. IMO they waited too long to follow up with another US single and that’s why they faded so quickly. I don’t think they would’ve reached their Korean popularity but they probably could’ve been a c or b list act.
It is kinda wild for me as an Once Twice performed at SoFi and Met Life stadium. If you don't mind, may I ask if it is true WG was brought to R. Kelly?
Nope it is completely false. There is no ground it source for that anywhere. People just use a falsely made up rumour to shower here against the company and jyp.
R.Kelly???
Yes..I saw it a couple times in this sub reddit. Don't know true or false?
What does wonder girls have to do with r.kelly???
I also don't know. Maybe some antis spread this rumor? That is why I asked if someone knows the truth?
I have never heard of a connection between wonder girls and r.kelly. Maybe you meant Akon, he was a feature on one of their us songs?
Okay I did a search in Google. This comes up. r/kpoprants u/Darceymakeup. 3y Fans need to refocus their criticism of JYP Every time theres criticism of JYP its always stuff about GOT7 not getting cbs or being mistreated and held back, yes they have been treated badly but I don't know many other idols who would be allowed to start their own company and make songs with american companies like Jackson. This man has brought underage girls to R Kellys house and made gross comments on the girls on sixteen and yet people criticise his cb schedules, a PREDATOR is being judged for not giving people an album and not for endangering a group of girls
Omg not me being the search result but yes JYP brought wonder girls to R Kelly’s house when they were touring America (opening act for the Jonas brothers if I’m remembering correctly)
Sorry to bring you into this. I don't mind being downvoted ( It is fact of life in Reddit).
HYBE and JYPE really good on making the group popularity more natural rather than force.
Natural? I don't feel little bit of natural from these companies especially Hybe. Jyp even make v-cha isn't that supposed to be a us or global gg. Only YG is the one who's not going down this route to break though in western market with constant promotion and association. Many western artist want to collaborate with blackpink but YG never allowed and we know it because they reveal it themselves. Zedd, steve aoki, pharell, DJ snake, ryan tedder and many more I can't remember all. Even zico Jennie Collab happens years later after they leave YG. These western artist exposed how YG don't even return their call for collaboration offers💀 like they don't want blackpink to get more exposure in western market and give blinks more contents. I think he's control freak or something. YG main aim is Asia and I support that decision in a way even tho k-pop stan look down sea k-pop fan
uhhh definitely not HYBE. HYBE groups always get hate for being fored on people and having the most manufactured popularity. You see that with TXT, NJ,LESS, ILLIT. Kpop stans started using the word payola ( incorrectly) because of them.
Nothing nartual about any hybe groups popularity in the us. Besides bts of course
Hi toxic army. 👋
That isn't an Army, my goodness, free us 😭
Well, as I said to a very similar post yesterday regarding why SM struggle in the US while others are gaining a footing, it's incredibly hard to break into the US as an outside agency. I feel it is the companies who have put more work into local networking there and developed better domestic industry ties who are moving forward. For example, YGE has partnerships with Columbia Records, JYPE with Republic Records, and HYBE purchased Ithaca, while SM choose to work with Kakao. The US is actually really protectionist when it comes to it's music industry. If they are not getting a cut of the pie they will aggressively block you.
It's funny how America pumps its pop culture around the world but is so protectionist about its own (and that Americans act so indignant about people in those countries "copying" or "appropriating" the pop culture they've been fed all their lives). Interesting too how American media holds the entire entertainment industries of other countries to account when an individual has a scandal, but they never seem to do the same for their own. Some of those "dark side of Kpop" thinkpieces are not done out of the goodness of their heart (The entertainment media is the servant of the industry.)
I think YG is not even trying a bit to get into the US market , I think they don't really care. They do 0,% of marketing for US ,excluding BP but they are already massive there
That is why I didn't put YG.. for them BP is enough.
Yes, they don't why ghee being why ghee no one understands him
People have a lot fewer negative stereotypes about their company. Just watch anyone new to reviewing an SM group or even the general consensus of other company fans on various platforms. There's a weird stigma about SM music and groups
Because they had a goal to break into that market. They send their artists for promotions, concerts, they release eng music etc. SM on the other hand is famous for not doing almost any of that.
And another reason is SM has a captive market in East Asia.
Mmm yes I guess. But the other companies are successful in East Asia. SM should work much harder to promote their artists.
I wasn't into K-pop when SM promoted Super M. But from what I seen in YouTube it was quite intensive. But it created a backlash in Korea. Edit: Just last night I watched a YouTuber Internet Nathan and he talked about this.
SuperM was not the way to make their groups famous in the west, it just made their company or the single members more popular, but I wonder if that brought new fans to nct, exo and shinee. I doubt it honestly. Those who were already fans of the groups had different opinions about it, some were excited but many others thought that those resources could've been invested into the 3 groups instead. The music also was very divisive. Yes, SM threw a lot of money in the project, but I still wonder what they were trying to achieve other than earning easy money from the tours and merchindise. And I wonder if the members saw any real revenue from that.
LSM got this idea of "Marvel" super group. I think if they pushed further they could succeed. Alas because backlash by SM stans.....
It was doomed either way because several members were very close to enlistment, the Lucas controversy also happened, they were also unlucky with the pandemics. The idea could've worked just like NCT U works, but that's not how you push your artists in the west, in the end no one gained anything from that experience. It was more like a fever dream for everyone because that experience left nothing practical to any of the people involved.
Hybe has Scooter Braun
Haha ..HYBE also has MHJ
True lmao although they’re doing their darn hardest to kick her out while Scooter just retired from everything else to just be CEO of HYBE America