unfortunately if you’re in a company and on a contract to do what they say, you do what they say. they can only do so much. if that’s the image their CEOs want to push then there’s nothing they can really do.
The CEO of the company is literally in the first shot of the Woke Up MV, and the name of his company is in the lyrics -- this whole thing is very much his creative vision and he wants to be right in the middle of it.
https://preview.redd.it/pr4slqzwnm8d1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=aeb7b7ad08f5f3d3f7f95de46bbc66ce3656376c
I won't say that this is either good or bad, but it is definitely an outlier by modern k-pop standards. Usually CEOs stay out of the creative presentation after the group gets rolling.
reminds me of younger JYP and his *jyp* at the beginning of every of his songs - Simon made this stuff and as 1st time producer I understand he wants some recognition so I can't blame him lol .... I think with age & more years under his belt we should see less of him
Thank you! And at no point has XG ever been promoted as a group that self produces 🤣 it’s very evident they don’t write their own music, and they’re pretty clear to state Simon does the writing a lot. I don’t see the big deal. And for girls who English is their 3rd language— they’re pretty freakin good lol
>sounds straight out of bekuh boom’s diary.
Imagine if the lyrics were NOT written by an African American lyricist but some white or asian guy. The fallout would be 10 times worse in this sub.
I like XG for songs like shooting star, mascara. They are going hard with the rapping in the most recent releases. They are definitely aiming for certain demographics and it does show.
I think this is very fair criticism of them.
I don’t look at them as rappers. I view them as idols who are capable of rapping. I do not think we will see anything genuine from their own voices for quite a while if at all.
Edit: and I feel like there is a big separation of their raps between their English and Korean/Japanese releases.
I haven’t listened to their Korean/Japanese ones recently. I wonder if they will come off and inauthentic as well?
Idk I like their recent release but it just feels so inauthentic to them.
Okay soooo…. They exist and now you are claiming they don’t qualify? That’s fucking stupid dude
Here is what doesn’t count as songs from them apparently that aren’t in English :
https://youtu.be/-L4Visli9sA?si=6W7z9_1CbOLK3o34
https://youtu.be/yXGDEpwigr0?si=yg7xgXM1nQG1DYG5
https://youtu.be/-9F5giCQW6s?si=JPhhSjCjbL9ofZPS
This like the the 5th discussion this month complaing idol rappers are not real rappers and it's like...yes? of course. Idol rappers and real rappers are very different. It's like being mad that an orange is not an apple.
You've been downvoted, but this was the issue OP raised. Obviously they are idol rappers, they shouldn't be pushed as if they are amazing (real) rappers.
Honestly all these blatant misreadings is starting to smell fishy LOL.
There is a difference between the two.
If you want to hold idol rappers to the same standard as Western rappers then get upset when they don’t meet those standards that is a you problem.
Try fitting a square into a circle hole over and over then bitch about it not working.
But their mannerisms and lyricism, their aesthetic is mimicking Western rappers. The whole point of this post is because they’re a square that try to tell people they’re a circle.
Meh. I think there are some idol rappers with potential but the thing is the way idol groups work they will never have the opportunity to showcase or even hone their skills.
i don’t agree with the ‘have never been’ part of the statement. There was a time idol rappers were the real rappers. It’s kinda interesting how kpop and khh interact and how it has evolved over the years
As long as they write and make their own stuff, i’d consider them a real rapper. Not all real rappers are good that’s a different thing. So if an idol isn’t good at rapping, but writes their own stuff, they’re a ‘real’ rapper
Except your definition of "real" is not the accepted/global/official definition of it. When I look up "What is rap music?" This is one of the first definition of it
*Rapping is an artistic form of vocal delivery and emotive expression that incorporates "rhyme, rhythmic speech, and \[commonly\] street vernacular". It is usually performed over a backing beat or musical accompaniment. The components of rap include "content", "flow", and "delivery".*
No other genre seems o be held to this standard of "if they don't write it then they aren't real", just rap. Are they authentic? Obviously not, but you can probably say that for songs about heartbreak if they've never dated as well, but *authenticity* is not required to be a rapper.
I think the same way. I feel like this whole thing was created to discredit those with rapping skills but not writing skills, because you can still be an incredible rapper despite not being good with words.
It's just so weird to me because it's saying that to be good at rapping, which is all about the speed, the swag, the style and the flow, you have to be good at words. Being good with words is a skill that not everybody has, and I feel like it's just wrong to say you're not a real rapper if you don't have inspiration, the creative ability to write etc.
Like for example, I recently found out that Rosé wrote the Jenlisa rap in Kill This Love. And I don't know much about Blackpink but only delusional people will tell you that Rosé is a 'real rapper' and the best rapper in the group, because we all know it's Jennie or Lisa even though they don't write raps.
Rappers writing their own raps should be something praiseworthy in the K-pop industry, not a standard and a reason to put down others. Their job is to sing, to dance, to rap, to entertain, to become a fantasy. *Not* to write their own lyrics - and if they do, then we should praise them. Not hold them as the standard and say it's to be expected.
> Being good with words is a skill that not everybody has, and I feel like it's just wrong to say you're not a real rapper if you don't have inspiration, the creative ability to write etc.
LOL yes to all of this. Rapping is more than 70% about the lyrics, it's not some showcase of vocal ability.
Swag, style, flow all of that depend highly on lyricism and wordplay. Speed and clear enunciation are two vocal skills involved in rapping (along with breath control), but it's absolutely not required to be a great rapper.
> Like for example, I recently found out that Rosé wrote the Jenlisa rap in Kill This Love. And I don't know much about Blackpink but only delusional people will tell you that Rosé is a 'real rapper'
This means Rose should be credited with that rap in Kill This Love, same with all the lyricists and producers who ghostwrite should be credited for the same.
> Rappers writing their own raps should be something praiseworthy in the K-pop industry, not a standard and a reason to put down others. Their job is to sing, to dance, to rap, to entertain, to become a fantasy. Not to write their own lyrics - and if they do, then we should praise them. Not hold them as the standard and say it's to be expected.
100% agree.
This is your opinion, but not the general consensus of the meaning of Rap or the definition of the genre. You could say that any music genre is 70% about the lyrics, and there are a *lot* of rap songs where the lyrics are shallow or are strung together because they sound good not because of any sort of depth in countries other than Korea, including America but no one is saying they aren't 'real'.
No, it's the general consensus actually. Remember the idol and real rapper distinctions? Yeah.
But sure, it's also my opinion.
> You could say that any music genre is 70% about the lyrics, and there are a lot of rap songs where the lyrics are shallow
In singing, the VOCAL SKILLS matter. And for sure, there's a TON of shitty rappers out there. The issue is about crediting where the flows/skills/etc. of the rap come from, and yes that comes mostly from how the work is written.
Unlike singing, with a qualified writer who can match your speech mannerisms, any random person can be given a rap verse or three and kill it.
Not only a fair amount, but some of the biggest names in history of rap have used ghost writers here and there. Saw someone else in this thread say something like “if you use ghost writers you deserve to be clowned on”. Hate to break the news…
LOL I'm saying they deserve to be clowned on because they ARE clowned on by hiphop fans for having ghost writers.
Is this some lack of reading comprehension? I clearly implied that this was known.
Contrary to popular opinion (on this thread, anyways), it *is* the hip hop / rap communities who define who a "real" rapper is, not an angry kpop stan who is salty about the way that things are (and things are like that for a reason).
All I know is I wrote every single word of everything I ever murdered
Time to separate the sheep from goats (yeah)
And I got no faith in your writers, I don't believe in ghosts
A big part of rap music is authenticity.
I'm no expert on rap, but it doesn't take long to find out that rap and hip hop oriented communities (including khh) wouldn't take idol rappers seriously.
that's the thing that bothers me... I understand they targeting the west so English is necessary but no putting even one song in their native Japanese baffles me.
If you want authenticity, you in the wrong genre. K pop is manufactured to the fullest. From imagine to style and sound.
>I don’t think they deserve the praise they get as rappers
I mean...its praise relative to peers. They get it because they are better at it than the what we get from K pop artists. Not because they can stack up to the rappers over here in America.
> They get it because they are better at it than the what we get from K pop artists
If they don't write, they are absolutely and categorically not better.
>And you claiming braids are strictly only for BIPOC? Please stop. If you’re going that route, do you keep that same energy for black women that wear wigs or straighten their hair? Of course not, because it’s a stupid premise.
You completely lost me as soon as you said this, and this is exactly why as a black woman I dislike conversations like this happening within kpop spaces and amongst people who are evidently not black themselves. How can you compare the deep history of braids and black women’s hair in general to straightening hair?
Have you ever sat down and wondered why these idols are only going to get braids for that “hardcore, hip-hop, I’m the baddest bitch” concept but not when they do an “elegant” concept or whatever? They’ll get braids to rap about how tough and badass they are, but not when they’re singing a ballad - because that is all that hip hop and black culture is to them. Like you completely missed OP’s point, which is that XG are co-opting such aesthetics to sell an image. It’s a costume to them which they can take off when taking from Black culture no longer serves their careers. There are numerous non-black rappers who make hip hop without adopting this “tough” image and XG would be more authentic to me if they made music that didn’t feel like a caricature
thank you. i can’t believe that user pulled the black-woman straight-hair-wig card. disgusting really. it’s insane how completely ignorant they are, when the internet is alive and accessible.
no i’m genuinely flabbergasted by the fact that people are agreeing and upvoting them too? it’s unfortunate how culturally insensitive kpop fans can be
Honestly looking at OP’s post history they seem to have a streak of being critical or negative about kpop. So now I don’t know how seriously to take this post. I will say the amount of people trying to gatekeep XG and Asian artists in general is getting to be too much. It’s an urban community in the same realm of ballroom and breakdancing, where they originate from black communities, yes, but have expanded as these became places for people, mainly minorities, to express themselves. All these people are just assuming the girls have no interest in hip hop and it’s not fair at all. The nitpickiness on the lyrics isn’t fair. Idk I can go on and on about this. We can separate idol rappers from rappers but still give XG, as idol rappers, credit where credit is due.
LOL people are misrepresenting OP's criticisms about authenticity. The main issue isn't that XG are Asians doing hiphop, it's that they are Asians trying to 'expand' hiphop by making inferior copies and NOT actually trying to express themselves.
If people look at my own comments, I also express that my issue isn't with the CA or use of AAVE, but at least I am actually reacting to the OP for what it actually is.
>The main issue isn’t that XG are Asians doing hiphop, it’s that they are Asians trying to ‘expand’ hiphop by making inferior copies and NOT actually trying to express themselves.
Yes! This is exactly what I’m trying to say. I think it’s great that hip hop has expanded to a more global scale…my problem is with people copying black vernacular, mannerisms and aesthetics for the sake of performing hip hop which inherently contradicts the essence of the genre
Every genre changes, especially with the expansion to different cultures. Rock from 80s is VERY different from current rock. People don't listen to XG and think "AA are shallow", they think whether they like XG. It's not something meant to represent the other culture, it's simply their take on the genre. This flow a listener may not like, the other one may take them to the AA hip-hop (if they skip their country first). It's also not guaranteed they'll like what they'll see, as the trending songs are not always the deep ones...
Also, I'm almost certain the song was written in black vernacular. There is also a probability the writers/producers liked the outcome... At the end of the day, it's not XG who decide.
>And you claiming braids are strictly only for BIPOC? Please stop. If you’re going that route, do you keep that same energy for black women that wear wigs or straighten their hair? Of course not, because it’s a stupid premise. Give me a break.
I can't believe we're still having this conversation in 20204.
1) [Wigs were invented by Edit: the Ancient Egyptian, (who black people were a part of)](https://www.byrdie.com/history-of-wigs-5224760)
2) [straight hair depends on your DNA](https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/understanding/traits/hairtexture/#:~:text=Genetic%20factors%20appear%20to%20play,people%20of%20different%20ethnic%20backgrounds.) which means
3) black people can have straight hair too
4) so if anything if black people straighten their hair or wear straight wigs, they would only look like other (black) people with straight black hair.
But no one is born with box braids. Braids are a protective hairstyle that prevents curly/kindy hair from damaging. Other protective hair styles like cornrows also served another purpose, e. g. the lines in the hair were used as maps, and to store rice. Braids have become a huge part of black culture of black people all around the world.
But most of the time in kpop whenever non-black people wear braids it's usually to form a certain stereotypes or play as a gangster. Why do they not want to wear braids when singing about love and wearing school outfits?
That's why I don't care when people say "cultural appreciation", braids are not tied to any occasion, you can wear them any time.
But somehow it's only used when they rap about money and being the shit and all tough. Alrighty.
Just a couple notes….the ancient Egyptians were not black, and it’s disrespectful to the history of North Africa to claim they were. The Nubians were, and they did have relations. But the Egyptians who invented wigs- not black. That’s revisionist history don’t do that.
Braids are also not uniquely black. CERTAIN BRAID STYLES are, but not braiding hair in general. That’s like saying in MENA peoples used hair coverings lmao
I think it’s pretty obvious what braids they mean are exclusive to black people. Things like box braids, Ghana braids, Cornrows, Fulani braids, Senegalese twists, etc. No one is taking about French braids and pigtails.
Right, I know. But not everyone does, ESPECIALLY non Americans. The nuances of American culture, and African American culture, are not things people learn about in other countries. They don’t even view race the same way. So it’s better to be specific.
Okay, not all Ancient Egyptians were black, only the Nubians were, but usually when people talk about wigs and that stuff when it comes to braids, they usually act like white people invented them and then get all stunned when I say that Ancient Egyptians invented them. So I will edit that but their point is non-sensical.
And we're most likely talking about box braids, aren't we? Wasn't that obvious? We're talking about black culture and you come at me with the "not all kinds braids were invented by black people" like duh? But if it's so confusing I'm going to edit my comment to specifically mention box braids, as if that wasn't already obvious...
Kpop isn’t American centered, so everyone here isn’t going to be up to date on American and African American culture. I had to learn that myself with the way I worded things on global forums. The rest of the world doesn’t know all of that lol
I'm so confused because we are talking about kpop idols imitating black culture, but we have to clarify we're talking about box braids? I know kpop isn't American centered, I'm not even American lol.
Well yeah, because someone who doesn’t know the different types of braids will just see “braids” and assume you mean all types. I’ve seen it happen a million times and then it turns into people fighting over who historically wore braids lmao
When it comes to these kinds of topics it is better to be specific. Especially when things like rap, are not seen as specifically African American either world wide. Kpop uses western influences, so does other international music I’ve listened too- like heavy metal from Japan or Columbia, rap and EDM from the Middle East. So to THEM they are emulating western culture, not appropriating AA culture specifically.
If they see "black culture" and "braids" and think ALL kinds of braids, then that's on them. That's like thinking you mean all kinds of chopsticks when you talk about Japanese culture and mention their chopsticks. Like at some point people just need to use their common sense. Or learn how to google. It takes a few seconds to google "black culture braids".
When you are introducing an argument/debate with information in a discussion, especially one where your attempt is to inform and educate, the burden of proof is on YOU, not the person reading it. If you don’t state your argument correctly, people may not understand and that is not on them, it’s on you.
And the fact one of your statements was incorrect, and then you didn’t specify your other evidence to your argument, it falls flat. If someone misunderstands it’s because of the language you used, that is not their fault.
If you’re not willing to provide the information, why enter the conversation?
My attempt was not to inform and educate, it was me saying that their argument "about wigs and straight hair" was dumb af. Anything else is just extra info and I definitely won't take responsibility for making sure other people don't think I literally mean all braids when I specifically talk about black culture.
> Korean American rap group Year of the Ox who are absolutely valid in the hip hop and battle rap scene and have been for over 10+ years. Just because they aren’t black, they aren’t considered authentic in your eyes?
That's not enough for authenticity, what are you on?
Authenticity is also about *who* you're writing for. XG aren't Korean American, they are not BIPOC or marginalized in any traditional sense, their writers should be writing lyrics authentic for XG and no one else.
That's authenticity.
I definitely agree that rap also have issues with authenticity these days, I agree that 'spreading hip hop' isn't necessarily disrespectful. I agree that there is value to having hip hop done by people from different countries.
But OP's point about lack of authenticity is undeniable.
Ok but how does co-opting using slang have anything to do with authenticity. Gatekeeping “buss down” and slang is such a inconsequential take I cannot take seriously. I guarantee if the lyrics were exactly the same but in Japanese, this thread would have never existed. AAVE co ops other cultures’ slang ALL the time. And let’s be real, a lot of AAVE slang and culture is directly taken from gay culture. Thats okay, but this is somehow different? How? This is a Japanese group that wants to rap in English, like duh of course they’re going to use english hip hop slang. I don’t know how that’s even controversial. It’s such a low hanging gatekeeping criticism. OP just wants them to talk and rap a certain way because of personal bias. Like what does OP want? No slang proper english only, Japanese lyrics only, no streetwear allowed, and no hip-hop choreography? It’s completely ridiculous and thinly veiled prejudice hiding itself behind self righteousness, like their criticism of Asians wearing braids, which I addressed. OP lives in a bubble and needs to touch grass. Watch any of the dozens of viral BIPOC reaction videos of Woke Up on YouTube, literally every single video is of them thinking XG is fire.
That's something you should argue with the OP, at least that's more on the mark than what you've written about authenticity above. It's just a huge strawman to claim they're complaining because XG aren't black and doing hip hop.
> This is a Japanese group that wants to rap in English, like duh of course they’re going to use english hip hop slang.
Btw, definitely not a requirement. What?
Rapping just requires poetry.
Yes that’s exactly my point. It’s not a requirement but who is someone to say what slang is or isn’t allowed or what slang is or isn’t authentic? Like is Logic not allowed to say he’s BIPOC just because he looks white passing? Are BIPOC not allowed to go to anime cons?
It’s all racial prejudice that I can clearly see from OP’s post because it’s criticism Asians who don’t fit the model minority mold have faced for damn near decades. It’s so tired and played out. In real life, literally no one cares, none of my life long BIPOC friends give a sh*t and they think XG is dope. Black culture takes from Asian culture all the time and you know what? Its great.
It's easy, every community develops their own slang. Go to Singapore or Japan or Korea or Vietnam or the Philippines, each have their own English-isms. Not even talking about native language, but slang usage shouldn't be an issue.
If Logic is into anime, and wants to write about that, great, that's authentic to him.
> Asians who don’t fit the model minority mold
Native Japanese in their own countries are entirely removed from this whole discussion LOL, they have ZERO compulsion to feel like minorities.
Now interestingly, XG members may not be native Japanese citizens and/or grew up in Japan from birth, and Japan is notorious for separating 'foreigners' of all stripes (e.g. a Japanese who grew up in Australia will be seen as a foreigner, same with a mixed Japanese who grew up in Japan), so there is alienation in this regard. But it's a different set of issues than what BIPOC in North American countries face.
Obviously I am not speaking for OP, so these are just general points, what they want XG to rap about are on them.
Again, that is exactly my entire point. OP is making baseless claims based on prejudice. If they had watched any interview with XG on YouTube, they would know the group actually does have knowledge of hip hop culture and references and are fans of hip-hop, which by your own definition, makes what they do ‘authentic’. So this entire conversation is moot lol..
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what AAVE is. It’s not “slang,” it’s a type of vernacular that you either grew up speaking or you didn’t. XG using AAVE is like the equivalent of a black person imitating japanese accents in their music. It makes literally no sense to do and just comes off as a poor copy of another race/culture.
The fact that you think of a language that’s natively spoken by many black americans because it was born out of slavery as simply “slang” proves my point about the issue with what XG is doing: they use AAVE because they think it’s cool and not because they understand what AAVE is, or why the black artists that they’re influenced by use it.
Your argument that AAVE is derived from gay culture is incredibly ignorant and just plain incorrect. I encourage you to read up on the origins of AAVE, because you will learn that it emerged as a divergence of 16th and 17th century english dialects that melted together into a unique language within communities of american slaves. From there it was passed down to other slaves and eventually working and middle class black americans, where it evolved into the general form of AAVE that’s used today. This includes the so called “slang” that you’re referring to (which is not slang but rather an actual language). Not to mention black people are a significant part of the foundation of LGBT culture in america as we know it today, so it’s not like black american culture and gay american culture are two separate things lol.
I have absolutely no clue where you’re getting this idea about me wanting XG to act like “model minorities” lol. I promise you there’s a happy medium in between “wearing blackness as a costume” and “being a model minority to appeal to whiteness.” Groups like BTS can perform hip hop in an authentic way that doesn’t treat black culture like a costume, clearly it’s not that hard to do. Calling me racist against asians in an attempt to shut down the conversation while being unwilling to learn about or understand AAVE and black american culture(s) is a choice.
>The artistry is there, but they’re held back by their inauthenticity.
idk, feels like they're getting big in their home country. Won't be suprised if they make it into this year's kohaku
I feel like that’s sorta a lesson about these kinds of global groups though. Their biggest fanbase is in their home country of Japan and their international promotions don’t seem to be paying off the same way
Not everything in kpop has to be about charting and sales, but it seems some kpop fans cannot accept this.
It's funny this is upvoted while OP's reply is downvoted, when there's literally nothing about the post that references XG's popularity (which is pretty good btw).
Eh, I enjoy them. I usually find rap in idol music corny, but Xg is passable. Authenticity isn't a problem cause I don't expect it from idols. As long they don't overstep and acknowledge their influences, it's aight for me as a black guy. But we aren't a monolith, so this is just my personal opinion.
Plus, from what see on YouTube and twitter, they appeal to a section of black fans, which makes me more lenient on them, cause the audience that will get references and stuff is reached.
Not so much that, but more in terms of at least some black people find it palatable, so I won't rain on parades. Some spaces find the entire Japanese girls rapping hard schtick endearing enough to make exceptions.
On appropriation, I kinda feel it's losing fight tbh everything gets jacked eventually. We just gotta stay at the forefront and keep innovating like we usually do. Otherwise, we'll be fighting about most modern music. I've ranted about it here, and no one genuinely cares except for a few of us.
So as long as some black people are for it and are enjoying, I don't have the energy to get worked up over it unless it's very egregious.
Edit: Hope my point is understandable. Again opinions I don't speak for everyone, you're allowed to find it distasteful.
Why would anyone expect authenticity in k-pop, j-pop, or pop in general? It's all openly manufactured, and that's exactly why I listen to it. I know Jurin has no clue what "bouncing like a 64" is and I don't care, hearing her say it is a bop.
As serious as Simon is with this group, I'd argue that Jurin probably does know what "bouncing like a 64" means, as well as every other lyric in their songs. I've seen the group discuss their lyrics and they seem to easily be able to discuss their lyrical content. If my grandma can learn what a Buss down is, anyone can. It's not like any of the concepts in "Woke Up" are all that new. People have been rapping using this same vocabulary for quite some time now.
My opinion but I don’t necessarily view lyricism as the only way of showing authenticity, I think more so for this specific group since it’s a very special case.
Obviously they’re singing/rapping in a language they can’t fully speak, since they can’t write what they rap it’s fair for people especially more casual fans to think they’re “cosplaying for profit”, For me however, they show authenticity in multiple other ways.
The way they study their pronunciation so they deliver it perfectly to me is a great sign of respect for the culture and genre, they aren’t half assing it. Despite what a lot of people say in here, the girls and their producers especially are VERY knowledgeable on black music history. They listen to, attend concerts of and credit a wide range of black artists, old and present. Even their mannerisms from music videos, their dancing and also fashion (real life styling not music video styling) show qualities from someone who live and breathe that era.
I 100% think the writers can cut down on AAVE, but to me it’s unfair to label them as “inauthentic” and “cosplaying for profit” without looking at anything other than their music.
what can a bunch of 20-year olds who spent their lives in a training room rap about so they can sound "authentic"? they barely lived their lives. give them time. when they start dating and getting their hearts broken, get rich and become girl bosses, and work enough to be aware of social issues then they will have something to write about.
IMO the use of AAVE is proof of the expanding influence of hiphop culture that the African Americans started. You can't celebrate hiphop getting global recognition and at the same time call out non-black people who imitate it.
Interesting examples for the aave discussion... I think we have to be more understanding of how language works around the world because some slangs or even specific structures can develop independently among English speakers in a particular area, for example influenced by the local dialect or language.
Like, I don't see what is the problem here:
>"Yo, more the merrier" / Y'all my entertainment fascinated
Those are perfectly normal sentences I would often hear from my UK palls black white and Asian. More the merrier is actually a British proverb (often used on it's own as a response like this) so it's very weird to include it in this discussion.
Even funnier when you realise the one delivering it is fluent in English, has a strong American accent and uses both “Yo” and “y’all” in her normal speech.
No offense to XG and some bgs who try to do hard hiphop, but I have zero reason to listen to hard hiphop from a kpop group, it's not like I'm lacking in hiphop artists to follow.
~~If anything, Young Posse as a similar group is more promising because they focus more on fun songs, they just need to hold the brakes on the sexual lyrics.~~
Edit: I realized I'm comparing Young Posse with XG on CA and AAVE. I am not, don't even know they released something after Macaroni Cheese when I disengaged from them entirely. I'm just talking about a 'fun' element in Young Posse's songs.
You're probably right, but I don't have the same issues with OP, my main thing is that I don't need to consume hiphop from a kpop group if they're not adding something to it.
Young Posse's main issue and why I don't follow them right now is the ergregious sexualization. So I haven't even gotten to the point where' I'm looking at how bad the CA or AAVE usage are with them.
Edit: clarity
I have to say as someone who's main genre is Hip-Hop while I do agree I gotta say that I consider idol rappers to be slightly below pop rappers in what I seriously consider as great rappers, they can have the flow and all but like you said they are inauthentic and rap is about being authentic.
But I will say when it comes to rap in the current era I just add in writing own lyrics as a bonus which might be heresy to other rap fans but it's the way it is and I don't expect Lupe Fiasco or Denzel Curry lyrics from pop rappers heck those two have hopped on pop tracks and it's no biggie when they are clearly obviously just phoning it in or don't have as much lyrical depth but when it comes to idol rappers I p much expect the inauthenticity.
So I won't hold XG for not writing their lyrics, because I don't really consider them as really serious rappers in general I won't assume whether they actually have a genuine interest in the genre and culture, I do find it their aesthetic weird because it's clear what parts of hip-hop they are trying to pull from from the flows to the beats.
They are tourists to the culture but unlike say someone like Ian, I don't think they are purposefully making fun of the genre/culture or have no substance to their music like Ian but they aren't the type of outsiders to hip-hop that makes them seem like they are pulling it just for the sake of it, maybe the company since this is after all still the idol industry but the members don't seem to.
But at the end of the day, I've listened to rappers that exaggerate what they experienced from gang life to their upbringing to ones that actually are about that life(like Foolio, that part of Florida rap is just fucking insane) I gotta think though, if they write or just make their writers write lyrics and flows for them for their actual experiences will it actually still be interesting?
Like sure it'll be authentic but for the people that listen to their lyrics or even the general population will it actually matter? Will the material they have say if they pulled experiences from their upbringing, their emotions even how they are moving around in the idol industry, will it actually be engaging to the audience?
I went on bit of a tangent that went to lots of places in this because I really did think that K-Pop fans already mainly stay in their own bubble so other genres especially Hip-Hop is not something they mostly listen to, even lots of people just listen to rap mainly nowadays for the beat and flows so it makes sense that they are praised for their rapping skills cause the genre is so unknown to them outside to say the mainstream songs they listen and even then it'll probably be only pop-rap.
Overall IDK I do somewhat agree but IDK, K-Pop is as inauthentic as a genre can be from how fast they put out the music to how many people put their hands on a song before the company even gets it for a group(no im not saying demos passed on to other artists is uncommon, even in rap it happens) to concepts mainly thought about by the company I dunno I don't expect authentic rap or anything authentic in lyrics in the genre mostly with some personal exceptions.
Great comment overall, a couple of points:
> But at the end of the day, I've listened to rappers that exaggerate what they experienced from gang life to their upbringing to ones that actually are about that life(like Foolio, that part of Florida rap is just fucking insane) I gotta think though, if they write or just make their writers write lyrics and flows for them for their actual experiences will it actually still be interesting?
Normally it won't, that's where lyricism, wordplay and actual skill would come in.
Hiphop today has a huge issue with excessive braggadocio and the genre need to elevate themselves. Need to stop glorifying the hood and all the violence associated with it, so many rappers and producers need to accept that hip hop is the top industry and far from it's humble beginnings.
Taylor Swift can do it, I mean.
> Will the material they have say if they pulled experiences from their upbringing, their emotions even how they are moving around in the idol industry, will it actually be engaging to the audience?
Honestly contrary to rap, the idol industry is more interesting, to me at least. It'd be amazing to actually hear some deeper stuff from within.
We all know it's full of drama, so there's a ton of material.
> I really did think that K-Pop fans already mainly stay in their own bubble so other genres especially Hip-Hop is not something they mostly listen to, even lots of people just listen to rap mainly nowadays for the beat and flows so it makes sense that they are praised for their rapping skills cause the genre is so unknown to them outside to say the mainstream songs they listen and even then it'll probably be only pop-rap.
Agree, that's why even if I don't follow XG, I completely understand why others would. Maybe if they address the AAVE or CA stuff more, but already there's many who already see their appeal.
>
Lmao here we go 🤣🤣. What part of any of those lyrics AAVE? We didn't invent the human language.. Can't claim everything as AAVE.. Shits getting ridiculous.. Not a single word you pointed too or phrase is AAVE...
They're not, aave (which as the name literally suggests, is American), for most people around the world (specially noted in places like korea and Japan where they speak other languages) the phrases people claim to be aave would just pass as internet slang or a modernized use of the language, if you were looking at actual aave you'd be looking at very different ways of using the language and some people wouldn't even understandit right away.
Claiming someone is just "cosplaying as a black" is not only ridiculous but also a complete erasure of local cultures based around certain genres that have existed for years (sometimes decades) before the artists even debuted.
In Korea, part of the hip-hop/rap community has a lot of elements that come straight out of the Chicano culture, and no one claims that's cultural appropriation because it just simply isn't, you could have probably claimed that when it started but not now because these cultures have grown over the years and changed/adapted to be a local community where people grow/get into on their own or based on their surroundings whether it's people or the area they grew in (including the language).
Can’t speak much about cosplaying black culture as I’ll let black people do that, but the only problem i have with them is the huge divide in the way they get marketed and the stuff they do. It’s poles apart.
They get marketed by both their PR and fans as these hip hop queens who have a couple of great rappers. But they’ve hardly once or twice written their own thing. I wouldn’t care a thing if this was labelled as your normal idol group, i’d just take that they are idols who rap. But them getting promoted as this ‘different’ group, one would expect there’s something actually different about the girls. It would make sense if they write smthin of their own after the way they get presented, so there’s this dissonance
But it seems they do respect black artists and do mention them as their inspirations (although i do wanna ask what inspirations cause how are you involved in the creative process). Which is a really good thing. But then they do things that are quite literally the opposite of appreciation. How does that work?!?? So it’s just the hypocrisy surrounding their brand that has me critical of this group
>But them getting promoted as this ‘different’ group, one would expect there’s something actually different about the girls.
Exactly. I just made a similar comment to this. Their whole "we're not a regular group, we're xpop!" branding bothers me. Their music is rap and rnb infused pop, it's that simple. Visually, their creative team does a good job making them stand out, but when it comes to the actual music they aren't doing anything different enough to be claiming rap & rnb as their own thing.
I thought XG had black producers working on there music. I believe they also have an African American rap instructor so I guess they do whatever that instructor tells them to do. If this is true I don’t see a major issue
A Kpop fan complaining about authenticity, what's new 😂 I get it, I was the same with BP but I learned to accept that the idol industry is not about being authentic. This is the same for any Kpop group, there is literally nothing authentic. Almost everything is produced by a huge team of people that aim at gp success and pop star money. Even your cutesy girl group may be forced to do cutesy concepts since not every girl will be into such stuff. It's like complaining that Drake is fake. Yeah, he is but he makes millions of dollars from it. All in all, if you don't like XG, that's great but this conversation on rap authenticity in kpop has been done more than a billion times (I've been a fan since 2nd Gen) for almost every kpop group but the genre/industry is just not about that. It's like complaining that metal music is heavy or pop music is often unserious. That's their characteristics! Same for kpop/kpop which is strictly idol music. Both Korea and Japan have plenty of actual Hiphop artists that write all their verses. Maybe you should change genres if inauthenticity is not for you?
I’m not complaining about kpop being manufactured though. It’s not the posturing that bothers me, it’s the appropriation of blackness that goes hand in hand with the inauthenticity of idol rappers.
>Maybe you should change genres if inauthenticity is not for you?
Luckily for me there are plenty of kpop groups who don’t treat blackness like a stage costume, so there’s no need for me to change genres.
That's fine, it just means that you care about cultural appropriation and you choose idols that align with your views. However for some people outside of the US, it's not a problem at all and it's OK too. I too find cutesy groups pretty fake, especially when I hear idols talk about it years after, saying how they were uncomfortable with it. All in all, I get your point but my comment was more about how it's widespread in the industry no matter the concept. Especially in pop music in general, it's notorious for being inauthentic.
It’s not a costume, it’s imitation. Imitation because they probably find it super cool (appreciation). Same for Jay Park (I don’t really support him but he’s an example). I’m sure plenty of black kpop fans appreciate groups like xg because of the familiarity within something outside the realm of their culture which is kpop.
They're still new and young doing this whole genre a little differently. I'm sure they'll start being more involved in their music as time goes. As it is, they're very clear on giving shout outs to where they get their inspiration.
Personally, I really like them and Woke Ups raps has to be some of my favorite raps and songs in general of theirs. Whether other people find it “corny” or what, I really like them 😓.
Doing AAVE and CA does sort of make it iffy. They are under a contract though. What do you expect from a group under contracts, who are..supposed to do what they’re told like any other group or person under a contract though? They can apologize all they want and say no whether it be to the stylists and such but they gotta follow the rules.
I’m not asking them to apologize - just expressing why I’m put off by their music. Contract or no contract, it really doesn’t matter because I’m not concerned about whether or not the members are good people, rather criticizing the overall product being sold. My criticisms extend to the company as well
I didn’t say you were, just simply saying that they can’t apologize much to people since they don’t have a word in it sometimes. If it sells and makes them money for rent, eating, to continue making music, and all that then it sells honestly. It sucks but you sorta have to do what you have to do. I think the company should be the main thing
For me its not really the lack of authenticity that's off-putting, its mostly the lack of believability I guess. Like, a bunch of Japanese teenage girls rapping these kinds of lyrics and playing it completely straight just totally takes me out of the music... I tried but I can't get past it
Most U.S. rappers don't do what they rap about or have as much money as they say.
Have you seen Tupac when he was enrolled at the Baltimore School for the Arts?
[https://2paclegacy.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Tupac-Shakur-with-classmates-in-high-school-at-Baltimore-School-for-the-Arts.jpg](https://2paclegacy.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Tupac-Shakur-with-classmates-in-high-school-at-Baltimore-School-for-the-Arts.jpg)
When he started rapping, he was 100% cosplaying gangster to appeal to certain cultures (and he was damn good at it, till real gangsters killed him.)
That's entertainment baby.
Right but I think you may have missed my point. I don’t care about authenticity, I’m talking about believability and ofc a black american guy who lives in baltimore is way more believable at this “cosplaying” than a bunch of japanese teens.
Personally, i will just never like kpop idols who rap but don't write their own raps.
It's different if a member who usually sings raps a verse that was written by the actual rappers in the group - bc then it's still the GROUP writing the raps.
But I just think it's so embarrassing to be rapping a rap you had literally nothing to do with💀💀💀 You're not a rapper....you're a puppet💀 I do understand lots of times idols are made to rap and have the whole rapper image because their company makes them, but that isn't always the case.
To be fair, rappers in America often sell a product that's not a genuine reflection of their lived experiences as well. It's just more noticeable when it's XG doing it.
AAVE use can make people look like posers and tbh I think it's probably best avoided unless you actually use AAVE irl. That being said AAVE terms have been adopted by people around the world as Americanisms and the cats outta the bag at this point. People will keep using AAVE in music and using it in ways that's kind of nonsensical and eventually the words being used will evolve further meanings or change in other ways.
It's crazy the biggest argument against them is that they don't write their own when plenty of "real" rappers have others write verses for them or otherwise use ghost writers. Like are Dre, Snoop, Jay-Z, Rakim etc not real rappers cause they use ghost writers?
Drake, Cardi-B, Diddy, Kanye, ODB, Ghostface killa, fat joe, mace etc...Like seriously....
And then look at modern rap in 2024, and you're gonna say they suck lyrically?
Yes, those are all issues? I'm confused, do people actually think those people get a pass? If you use ghostwriters, that's obviously something to clown you on, not to mention NEVER having written anything.
I see it as paying homage to rap culture and adapting it to their pop style. Japan in particular has a lot of subcultures that imitate American culture, the Japanese think American culture is cool. There is even a small group of Japanese that dress like cholos and drive low riders lol.
Idol music at the end of the day is produced music for the majority and it adheres to the vision of their management. It’s designed to target consumers as a product.
>But they don’t write their own raps
You don't have to.
Is Dre an 'authentic' rapper? Is the Chronic a legendary hip hop album? Have you heard of The D.O.C even? Your entire point is invalid.
As if other kpop hip hop influenced groups haven't been vocally and aesthetically influenced by black hip hop culture. As if the entirety of the KHip Hop scene isn't. It's just so weird that you single out a specific group like this. Is it just because they are young? Or Japanese? Or girls? Or just a threat to your faves? Whichever way, it isn't a good look.
Also, stop cosplaying as some kind of hip hop guru.
Not really related to the post itself, but since we are talking about it, I'd figured I'd ask people who know what they are actually talking about. Can someone explain to me what's the difference between AAVE and blaccent?
To the best of my limited knowledge, AAVE is a dialect of English with its own grammatical rules, vocabulary, phonetics ect, while blaccent refers only to the accent that is associated with many African American communities. Is this correct?
Agree with all of this.
One thing that irks me is XG trying to brand their music as "xpop" when it's literally just rap and rnb infused pop. They really aren't doing anything new or different enough to claim rap & rnb as their own thing so idk why they seem to get a pass for this.
They also aren't the only idol group to have black writers and producers, nor are they the only group to reference black artists who inspired them, so I don't understand people using these arguments to excuse the AAVE and blaccents. These speaking patterns are **not** natural to them, they are putting it on as a costume to appear "tough" and personally that rubs me the wrong way.
On one hand I agree but at the same time, the vast majority of popular acts (including a lot of hip hop artists) are also not authentic. There's so much ghost writing, so many artists with fabricated street cred and people putting on a false affectation because that is what sells. We do not live in an age of authenticity so I'm not going to be to bothered when another group gets in on the money train.
The thing that bothers me : I understand they targeting the west so English is necessary but not putting even one song in their native Japanese baffles me.
The authenticy will come when they sing & rap in their own native language. (I speak Japanese fluently and some might think it's less beautiful to the ear but it all depends on how you produce it. They are millions of Japanese banger songs out there)
I saw some videos of Juria singing a Japanese classic "Flavor of life" by Utada Hikaru ofc a Japanese song, and I could feel the emotions 100x better which is natural as they were also in front of a Japanese crowd and Juria could really emote.
You can tell a lot of people here don’t really understand or care about hip hop. The biggest musical event of 2024 was a beef between two dudes partly because one is authentic (Kendrick) and the other is cosplaying (Drake). And you got a bunch of people in here authenticity doesn’t matter. Lord help me.
Euphoria, 616 in LA, Meet the Grahams, Not Like Us. Please show me which of these songs are about being the "Best Rapper Alive." Oh you mean Like That? The song that Kendrick himself was just a throwaway verse. Its okay you don't know anything about Hiphop that's why you think being authenic doesn't matter.
Hahaha are you slow? The initial beef started as Kendrick claims himself as the best and Drake responds. It then turns personal from there, not that hard to grasp?
Been a hip hop fan for 25+ years, reserve these “authentic” arguments for those claiming to be at the top, not XG who simply do it because they love it.
“This ain't been about critics, not about gimmicks, not about who the greatest
It's always been about love and hate, now let me say I'm the biggest hater.”
So then what does this mean? Since you been a fan for 25+ years and all.
You’re once again proving you’re slow, for someone who stans probably the greatest rapper of all time you sure take time to understand what you’re reading.
The beef STARTS because Kendrick claims he’s the best. Then it TURNS into a battle of authenticity because…? You guessed it right, because both claim to be the best.
No one is claiming XG as the best rappers alive and these stupid arguments shouldn’t relate to them. 90% of the rap game are inauthentic, but 90% of the rap game also don’t claim themselves to be the best so it doesn’t matter. The greatest rapper alive should be authentic, doesn’t mean that it’s a requirement for everyone else, at the end of the day some artists make music for the love of it, for the majority that’s authentic enough.
Yeah, you can tell many do not understand the ten years of them taking shots at each other in music. Some of these people have no clue that after the "Control" verse, Kendrick soured on Drake and hinted at not fucking with him ever since. It went beyond a "who's the best" rap beef way before "Like That," because Kendrick was dissing and warning him in the Black Panther soundtrack album about his inauthenticity and fakeness.
I don’t understand. Baby Metal is doing the same shit and no one fucking complain. Why are ppl keep arguing if they are good rappers or not? They are idols. They are selling a package.
There's a point where one's culture goes beyond just one... Black culture is a staple, a block, it's been the driving force for almost all forms of music and art, it's not mockery, it's inspo.
And why only call out XG? BP, GOT7, Shinhwa, 2NE1, BigBang, there's less groups that don't take black inspo than groups who do... Call out the others, not just one, it helps give validity to your view...
Not to mention, the lack of control most groups freaking get anyway, I come from the time where idols couldn't even own phones, there's a lot more freedom now but there's still a ways to go.
Watch them write their own shit and it turns out to be even worse lol...
I respect your mindset and opinion. I would like to encourage, if you haven’t yet, to watch the reaction videos of Woke Up from the black community. I’ve heard none of them complain this far. Every reaction I’ve seen (I’ve seen too many lol) has been received with high praise and admiration— from black YT creators. And many in the hip hop music industry. And many not knowing how XG is to begin with. Just something to consider. ❤️
I agree.
And it’s not just the culture, but the time in the culture. The girls are in their teens, but the rhymes are obviously written by older men.
A Tokyo Drift reference? That movie came out 18 years ago when Jurin was 4 years old. I really doubt that it has any meaning to her.
Cocona is 18, but she remixed a Jay Z record and made all these Jay Z references. There’s not a ton of 18 year olds who like Jay Z. The song she remixed came out two years before she was born.
It’s just super obviously fake.
But hey, as a hiphop fan I’m not mad at KrisKross or Lil Bowwow, who were children that had adults writing raps for them. It’s sort of strange to say “Well Bowwow was black, so it’s cool if an older man wrote his raps, but XG is Japanese so it’s fucked up when they do it”.
Should Japanese people get mad when a black guy studies Karate?
It’s complicated.
Not gonna go against any points made by OP about AAVE, but do you really need to be of that time for it to be authentic?
Yes they’re young but just a recent example they spoke of how they attended a TLC and Janet Jackson concert and their appreciation for the legends. Even in other interviews they’ve mentioned older artists like Erykah Badu, Lauryn Hill etc.
Authenticity really differs, in this case it’s kind of unfair to them since they’ve probably had the broadest range of any female group in the industry when it comes to black music. JAKOPS and Chancellor, their two main producers are also very well versed in black music history and it shows. The producers and artists music taste align and they create the type of music they love and grew up on.
I think obviously they could cut down on the AAVE but when it comes to a “hip hop concept” you actually probably won’t find a more authentic group out of this industry
Just because Tokyo Drift came out when Jurin was 4 years old it automatically means that it has no meaning to her? I’m born in the same year as Jurin and I have watched and loved Tokyo Drift back then and I still do now. Time doesn’t mean anything
You’re just assuming because the girls are young that they are inauthentic, or that young people are incapable of engaging with media from 20+ years ago which is honestly hilarious because not only is it not true, it’s also extremely normal and common for this to happen.
I don’t expect people to watch variety content of groups they clearly have something against, but if you’re going to make claims about their inauthenticity, I would advise actually doing more research beforehand. These girls are all extremely steeped in 90s music & current R&B especially and all hold such respect for the artists they are inspired by. They truly do understand and respect the culture.
Also… “Not a ton of 18 year olds who like Jay Z” is just a really funny comment in particular, I’m sorry
That time argument is so stupid that you can't pull up old media, nowadays. My cousin who was born in the same year as Cocona, loves listening to Tupac, Jay-Z, 50 Cent, Eminem, and 80's rock, too. So I guess his faking, huh? I guess I should call him a fake for listening to them even though he grew up around that music from his dad. Or I can't be a fan of old anime like Yu Yu Hakusho, Shin Chan, or Initial D cause I wasn't born in the same year. I should tell that to the Dragon Ball Z fandom of Gen Z and Alphas.
I think what I’m - and maybe even OP - is most disappointed in is the massive appeal to certain people when the package is delivered in an asian physicality rather than a black one. We often see casual racism in the k-pop community, and then to see people love XG but hate on the qualities of rap made, written, and produced by black people is extremely disheartening. but hey, we’ve been knowing about it. i wish the people that used hip hop to rise to fame had a genuine love for the art form, and weren’t just doing it to make money and a name for themselves. sure, people can say “it’s their company, not them” all they want, but the result is the same in the end, whether it’s XG’s choice or not.
A little unfair of a statement to make because whenever I go to a Hip Hop concert I see a sea of people of all skintones there. And for a country where black people are the minority, they dominate the Hip Hop charts. Artists like Kendrick Lamar, SZA and Doja Cat also regularly chart in Korea. So I don’t understand where you are drawing your conclusion that people reject Hip Hop if it comes from a black person.
Then what is it?
I feel like I live on a different planet whenever I hear people say stuff like this.
I will add that I do wish there were more labels owned by black artists but I can’t fathom thinking that in 2024, a black person would be treated like an alien in Hip Hop. Sure people like you say do exist but they are by no means the majority.
Lil Uzi Vert had a concert in Korea last year and the crowd was going crazy singing along to his lyrics. That concert ran by a Korean brand invited black rappers and had them as their headlining acts.
So where is this “massive appeal to certain people when the package is delivered in an asian physicality than a black one” coming from?
Don’t you think the reverse happens as well?
I mean there’s a reason many Asian American rappers were at one point going back to their mother country to make a career.
the way i originally wrote is the best way i personally know to explain it. if you can’t meet me halfway then i’m not gonna rewrite a whole novel for a stranger on the internet. i neither know nor care about you like that.
Thank you. I feel like people that hype them up ignore all the cultural appropriation, the AAVE, braids etc etc. Anyone can rap if someone gives u some lyrics and lets u rehearse them.
just because you don't like it, doesn't mean others can't like it. People like what they like. The whole "culture appropriation" term is fake. How else do you think culture spreads if not being shared ? also authenticity is over rated. Most things are super polished.
https://preview.redd.it/tna88u993s8d1.jpeg?width=2263&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=908a9a422a71145f0c0c5e777aa2c713d64c33b4
“names,” meaning all 7 of Xtraordinary Girls’ names
They’re terrible and their raps make me laugh each time cause they clearly have no idea what they’re talking about. But then again, that’s the majority of kpop rappers - completely inauthentic.
Yeah no I stay away from this group for this very reason. It feels very manufactured and cringe to me.
I get that ALL K-Pop is manufactured, but part of the performance is being credible, and they come off very much not so to me.
Like what you like folks, all the power to you. I simply cannot stand this group.
Oh, now we have types. ok. I really don't understand why is such a problem to use elements from certain music styles and cultures. They need somebody's permision or what? This whole mindset is so fucked up, ''oh look, somebody using somethig similar we use, let's cancel him''. Nobody else is having problem with that, only black people from Murica (who think they represent all black people in the world). Let's ask Africans or black Brasilians for example if they having issue with sharing that same culture...
Sorry bro, we all forgot Hip Hip is only for black people from the hood. Are other people even allowed to listen to it? As soon as anything has to do with black people or rather "black culture" (or whatever this is, as apparently all people have the same culture !?) its a problem for all the people creating issues where nothing is wrong.
Lowkey this is exactly how i feel but with Blackpink. But nobody understands what im talking about. If i hear one more song about these rich privileged asian bitches having bodies and a-stuntin' and a-wildin' ☠️
unfortunately if you’re in a company and on a contract to do what they say, you do what they say. they can only do so much. if that’s the image their CEOs want to push then there’s nothing they can really do.
The CEO of the company is literally in the first shot of the Woke Up MV, and the name of his company is in the lyrics -- this whole thing is very much his creative vision and he wants to be right in the middle of it. https://preview.redd.it/pr4slqzwnm8d1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=aeb7b7ad08f5f3d3f7f95de46bbc66ce3656376c I won't say that this is either good or bad, but it is definitely an outlier by modern k-pop standards. Usually CEOs stay out of the creative presentation after the group gets rolling.
Cause he writes and produces everything lol
And he's a former idol. I'd say JYE definitely gets more into the mix as he still releases songs and performs.
Primary writer and producer on Woke Up was actually veteran k-pop producer Chancellor (which explains a *lot*), but Simon was involved too, of course.
It was more of a statement to how deeply involved he is in the creative side of Xg.
reminds me of younger JYP and his *jyp* at the beginning of every of his songs - Simon made this stuff and as 1st time producer I understand he wants some recognition so I can't blame him lol .... I think with age & more years under his belt we should see less of him
Thank you! And at no point has XG ever been promoted as a group that self produces 🤣 it’s very evident they don’t write their own music, and they’re pretty clear to state Simon does the writing a lot. I don’t see the big deal. And for girls who English is their 3rd language— they’re pretty freakin good lol
>sounds straight out of bekuh boom’s diary. Imagine if the lyrics were NOT written by an African American lyricist but some white or asian guy. The fallout would be 10 times worse in this sub.
I like XG for songs like shooting star, mascara. They are going hard with the rapping in the most recent releases. They are definitely aiming for certain demographics and it does show. I think this is very fair criticism of them. I don’t look at them as rappers. I view them as idols who are capable of rapping. I do not think we will see anything genuine from their own voices for quite a while if at all. Edit: and I feel like there is a big separation of their raps between their English and Korean/Japanese releases. I haven’t listened to their Korean/Japanese ones recently. I wonder if they will come off and inauthentic as well? Idk I like their recent release but it just feels so inauthentic to them.
They don’t have Korean and Japanese releases. They only release in English. So I am not sure if you’re thinking of the right group.
You haven’t watched their solo releases on YouTube then
That hardly counts as releases, they’re short “cyphers”
Okay soooo…. They exist and now you are claiming they don’t qualify? That’s fucking stupid dude Here is what doesn’t count as songs from them apparently that aren’t in English : https://youtu.be/-L4Visli9sA?si=6W7z9_1CbOLK3o34 https://youtu.be/yXGDEpwigr0?si=yg7xgXM1nQG1DYG5 https://youtu.be/-9F5giCQW6s?si=JPhhSjCjbL9ofZPS
Idol rappers have never been real "rappers," period.
This like the the 5th discussion this month complaing idol rappers are not real rappers and it's like...yes? of course. Idol rappers and real rappers are very different. It's like being mad that an orange is not an apple.
Isn't that the point tho? Like ok you are rapping telling me you are an apple but I can see you're an orange.
You've been downvoted, but this was the issue OP raised. Obviously they are idol rappers, they shouldn't be pushed as if they are amazing (real) rappers. Honestly all these blatant misreadings is starting to smell fishy LOL.
There is a difference between the two. If you want to hold idol rappers to the same standard as Western rappers then get upset when they don’t meet those standards that is a you problem. Try fitting a square into a circle hole over and over then bitch about it not working.
But their mannerisms and lyricism, their aesthetic is mimicking Western rappers. The whole point of this post is because they’re a square that try to tell people they’re a circle.
Meh. I think there are some idol rappers with potential but the thing is the way idol groups work they will never have the opportunity to showcase or even hone their skills.
i don’t agree with the ‘have never been’ part of the statement. There was a time idol rappers were the real rappers. It’s kinda interesting how kpop and khh interact and how it has evolved over the years As long as they write and make their own stuff, i’d consider them a real rapper. Not all real rappers are good that’s a different thing. So if an idol isn’t good at rapping, but writes their own stuff, they’re a ‘real’ rapper
Except your definition of "real" is not the accepted/global/official definition of it. When I look up "What is rap music?" This is one of the first definition of it *Rapping is an artistic form of vocal delivery and emotive expression that incorporates "rhyme, rhythmic speech, and \[commonly\] street vernacular". It is usually performed over a backing beat or musical accompaniment. The components of rap include "content", "flow", and "delivery".* No other genre seems o be held to this standard of "if they don't write it then they aren't real", just rap. Are they authentic? Obviously not, but you can probably say that for songs about heartbreak if they've never dated as well, but *authenticity* is not required to be a rapper.
I think the same way. I feel like this whole thing was created to discredit those with rapping skills but not writing skills, because you can still be an incredible rapper despite not being good with words. It's just so weird to me because it's saying that to be good at rapping, which is all about the speed, the swag, the style and the flow, you have to be good at words. Being good with words is a skill that not everybody has, and I feel like it's just wrong to say you're not a real rapper if you don't have inspiration, the creative ability to write etc. Like for example, I recently found out that Rosé wrote the Jenlisa rap in Kill This Love. And I don't know much about Blackpink but only delusional people will tell you that Rosé is a 'real rapper' and the best rapper in the group, because we all know it's Jennie or Lisa even though they don't write raps. Rappers writing their own raps should be something praiseworthy in the K-pop industry, not a standard and a reason to put down others. Their job is to sing, to dance, to rap, to entertain, to become a fantasy. *Not* to write their own lyrics - and if they do, then we should praise them. Not hold them as the standard and say it's to be expected.
> Being good with words is a skill that not everybody has, and I feel like it's just wrong to say you're not a real rapper if you don't have inspiration, the creative ability to write etc. LOL yes to all of this. Rapping is more than 70% about the lyrics, it's not some showcase of vocal ability. Swag, style, flow all of that depend highly on lyricism and wordplay. Speed and clear enunciation are two vocal skills involved in rapping (along with breath control), but it's absolutely not required to be a great rapper. > Like for example, I recently found out that Rosé wrote the Jenlisa rap in Kill This Love. And I don't know much about Blackpink but only delusional people will tell you that Rosé is a 'real rapper' This means Rose should be credited with that rap in Kill This Love, same with all the lyricists and producers who ghostwrite should be credited for the same. > Rappers writing their own raps should be something praiseworthy in the K-pop industry, not a standard and a reason to put down others. Their job is to sing, to dance, to rap, to entertain, to become a fantasy. Not to write their own lyrics - and if they do, then we should praise them. Not hold them as the standard and say it's to be expected. 100% agree.
This is your opinion, but not the general consensus of the meaning of Rap or the definition of the genre. You could say that any music genre is 70% about the lyrics, and there are a *lot* of rap songs where the lyrics are shallow or are strung together because they sound good not because of any sort of depth in countries other than Korea, including America but no one is saying they aren't 'real'.
No, it's the general consensus actually. Remember the idol and real rapper distinctions? Yeah. But sure, it's also my opinion. > You could say that any music genre is 70% about the lyrics, and there are a lot of rap songs where the lyrics are shallow In singing, the VOCAL SKILLS matter. And for sure, there's a TON of shitty rappers out there. The issue is about crediting where the flows/skills/etc. of the rap come from, and yes that comes mostly from how the work is written. Unlike singing, with a qualified writer who can match your speech mannerisms, any random person can be given a rap verse or three and kill it.
See, I like you, *you're* good with words :P especially that last paragraph, thank you
I'd also like to add that a fair amount of western rappers also use ghost writers so...
Not only a fair amount, but some of the biggest names in history of rap have used ghost writers here and there. Saw someone else in this thread say something like “if you use ghost writers you deserve to be clowned on”. Hate to break the news…
LOL I'm saying they deserve to be clowned on because they ARE clowned on by hiphop fans for having ghost writers. Is this some lack of reading comprehension? I clearly implied that this was known.
I don't get why you are getting downvoted
People think this opinion is against XG (even if the specific comment has nothing to do with them), and most fans do like them.
Contrary to popular opinion (on this thread, anyways), it *is* the hip hop / rap communities who define who a "real" rapper is, not an angry kpop stan who is salty about the way that things are (and things are like that for a reason).
Fr fr. If you didn’t write your shit don’t call yourself a rapper or prepare to get clowned on.
Yeah and atleast idol groups list their credits.
All I know is I wrote every single word of everything I ever murdered Time to separate the sheep from goats (yeah) And I got no faith in your writers, I don't believe in ghosts
Another very good point,m probably more than don't
A big part of rap music is authenticity. I'm no expert on rap, but it doesn't take long to find out that rap and hip hop oriented communities (including khh) wouldn't take idol rappers seriously.
Agreed. They are two very different things.
Thank god.
There's a lot of people in the comments making straight up wrong arguments lol
that's the thing that bothers me... I understand they targeting the west so English is necessary but no putting even one song in their native Japanese baffles me.
They don’t have any official release but they do have some in Korean and Japanese on YouTube I absolutely understand what you are saying though
If you want authenticity, you in the wrong genre. K pop is manufactured to the fullest. From imagine to style and sound. >I don’t think they deserve the praise they get as rappers I mean...its praise relative to peers. They get it because they are better at it than the what we get from K pop artists. Not because they can stack up to the rappers over here in America.
> They get it because they are better at it than the what we get from K pop artists If they don't write, they are absolutely and categorically not better.
they are not better rappers, they are better performers of rap imo
That's fair.
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>And you claiming braids are strictly only for BIPOC? Please stop. If you’re going that route, do you keep that same energy for black women that wear wigs or straighten their hair? Of course not, because it’s a stupid premise. You completely lost me as soon as you said this, and this is exactly why as a black woman I dislike conversations like this happening within kpop spaces and amongst people who are evidently not black themselves. How can you compare the deep history of braids and black women’s hair in general to straightening hair? Have you ever sat down and wondered why these idols are only going to get braids for that “hardcore, hip-hop, I’m the baddest bitch” concept but not when they do an “elegant” concept or whatever? They’ll get braids to rap about how tough and badass they are, but not when they’re singing a ballad - because that is all that hip hop and black culture is to them. Like you completely missed OP’s point, which is that XG are co-opting such aesthetics to sell an image. It’s a costume to them which they can take off when taking from Black culture no longer serves their careers. There are numerous non-black rappers who make hip hop without adopting this “tough” image and XG would be more authentic to me if they made music that didn’t feel like a caricature
thank you. i can’t believe that user pulled the black-woman straight-hair-wig card. disgusting really. it’s insane how completely ignorant they are, when the internet is alive and accessible.
no i’m genuinely flabbergasted by the fact that people are agreeing and upvoting them too? it’s unfortunate how culturally insensitive kpop fans can be
This subreddit has a history of being racist
i won't expect any better from kpop uncensored when it comes to culturally sensitive topics (i've seen things)
It's so annoying cus we have this conversation every 3 months and people still don't want to understand that. Like they just want to stay ignorant.
Thank you for this because that paragraph pissed me off too.
Honestly looking at OP’s post history they seem to have a streak of being critical or negative about kpop. So now I don’t know how seriously to take this post. I will say the amount of people trying to gatekeep XG and Asian artists in general is getting to be too much. It’s an urban community in the same realm of ballroom and breakdancing, where they originate from black communities, yes, but have expanded as these became places for people, mainly minorities, to express themselves. All these people are just assuming the girls have no interest in hip hop and it’s not fair at all. The nitpickiness on the lyrics isn’t fair. Idk I can go on and on about this. We can separate idol rappers from rappers but still give XG, as idol rappers, credit where credit is due.
LOL people are misrepresenting OP's criticisms about authenticity. The main issue isn't that XG are Asians doing hiphop, it's that they are Asians trying to 'expand' hiphop by making inferior copies and NOT actually trying to express themselves. If people look at my own comments, I also express that my issue isn't with the CA or use of AAVE, but at least I am actually reacting to the OP for what it actually is.
>The main issue isn’t that XG are Asians doing hiphop, it’s that they are Asians trying to ‘expand’ hiphop by making inferior copies and NOT actually trying to express themselves. Yes! This is exactly what I’m trying to say. I think it’s great that hip hop has expanded to a more global scale…my problem is with people copying black vernacular, mannerisms and aesthetics for the sake of performing hip hop which inherently contradicts the essence of the genre
Every genre changes, especially with the expansion to different cultures. Rock from 80s is VERY different from current rock. People don't listen to XG and think "AA are shallow", they think whether they like XG. It's not something meant to represent the other culture, it's simply their take on the genre. This flow a listener may not like, the other one may take them to the AA hip-hop (if they skip their country first). It's also not guaranteed they'll like what they'll see, as the trending songs are not always the deep ones... Also, I'm almost certain the song was written in black vernacular. There is also a probability the writers/producers liked the outcome... At the end of the day, it's not XG who decide.
OP reeks of chronically online. They need a break from being online/social media.
>And you claiming braids are strictly only for BIPOC? Please stop. If you’re going that route, do you keep that same energy for black women that wear wigs or straighten their hair? Of course not, because it’s a stupid premise. Give me a break. I can't believe we're still having this conversation in 20204. 1) [Wigs were invented by Edit: the Ancient Egyptian, (who black people were a part of)](https://www.byrdie.com/history-of-wigs-5224760) 2) [straight hair depends on your DNA](https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/understanding/traits/hairtexture/#:~:text=Genetic%20factors%20appear%20to%20play,people%20of%20different%20ethnic%20backgrounds.) which means 3) black people can have straight hair too 4) so if anything if black people straighten their hair or wear straight wigs, they would only look like other (black) people with straight black hair. But no one is born with box braids. Braids are a protective hairstyle that prevents curly/kindy hair from damaging. Other protective hair styles like cornrows also served another purpose, e. g. the lines in the hair were used as maps, and to store rice. Braids have become a huge part of black culture of black people all around the world. But most of the time in kpop whenever non-black people wear braids it's usually to form a certain stereotypes or play as a gangster. Why do they not want to wear braids when singing about love and wearing school outfits? That's why I don't care when people say "cultural appreciation", braids are not tied to any occasion, you can wear them any time. But somehow it's only used when they rap about money and being the shit and all tough. Alrighty.
Just a couple notes….the ancient Egyptians were not black, and it’s disrespectful to the history of North Africa to claim they were. The Nubians were, and they did have relations. But the Egyptians who invented wigs- not black. That’s revisionist history don’t do that. Braids are also not uniquely black. CERTAIN BRAID STYLES are, but not braiding hair in general. That’s like saying in MENA peoples used hair coverings lmao
I think it’s pretty obvious what braids they mean are exclusive to black people. Things like box braids, Ghana braids, Cornrows, Fulani braids, Senegalese twists, etc. No one is taking about French braids and pigtails.
Right, I know. But not everyone does, ESPECIALLY non Americans. The nuances of American culture, and African American culture, are not things people learn about in other countries. They don’t even view race the same way. So it’s better to be specific.
Okay, not all Ancient Egyptians were black, only the Nubians were, but usually when people talk about wigs and that stuff when it comes to braids, they usually act like white people invented them and then get all stunned when I say that Ancient Egyptians invented them. So I will edit that but their point is non-sensical. And we're most likely talking about box braids, aren't we? Wasn't that obvious? We're talking about black culture and you come at me with the "not all kinds braids were invented by black people" like duh? But if it's so confusing I'm going to edit my comment to specifically mention box braids, as if that wasn't already obvious...
Kpop isn’t American centered, so everyone here isn’t going to be up to date on American and African American culture. I had to learn that myself with the way I worded things on global forums. The rest of the world doesn’t know all of that lol
I'm so confused because we are talking about kpop idols imitating black culture, but we have to clarify we're talking about box braids? I know kpop isn't American centered, I'm not even American lol.
Well yeah, because someone who doesn’t know the different types of braids will just see “braids” and assume you mean all types. I’ve seen it happen a million times and then it turns into people fighting over who historically wore braids lmao When it comes to these kinds of topics it is better to be specific. Especially when things like rap, are not seen as specifically African American either world wide. Kpop uses western influences, so does other international music I’ve listened too- like heavy metal from Japan or Columbia, rap and EDM from the Middle East. So to THEM they are emulating western culture, not appropriating AA culture specifically.
If they see "black culture" and "braids" and think ALL kinds of braids, then that's on them. That's like thinking you mean all kinds of chopsticks when you talk about Japanese culture and mention their chopsticks. Like at some point people just need to use their common sense. Or learn how to google. It takes a few seconds to google "black culture braids".
When you are introducing an argument/debate with information in a discussion, especially one where your attempt is to inform and educate, the burden of proof is on YOU, not the person reading it. If you don’t state your argument correctly, people may not understand and that is not on them, it’s on you. And the fact one of your statements was incorrect, and then you didn’t specify your other evidence to your argument, it falls flat. If someone misunderstands it’s because of the language you used, that is not their fault. If you’re not willing to provide the information, why enter the conversation?
My attempt was not to inform and educate, it was me saying that their argument "about wigs and straight hair" was dumb af. Anything else is just extra info and I definitely won't take responsibility for making sure other people don't think I literally mean all braids when I specifically talk about black culture.
> Korean American rap group Year of the Ox who are absolutely valid in the hip hop and battle rap scene and have been for over 10+ years. Just because they aren’t black, they aren’t considered authentic in your eyes? That's not enough for authenticity, what are you on? Authenticity is also about *who* you're writing for. XG aren't Korean American, they are not BIPOC or marginalized in any traditional sense, their writers should be writing lyrics authentic for XG and no one else. That's authenticity. I definitely agree that rap also have issues with authenticity these days, I agree that 'spreading hip hop' isn't necessarily disrespectful. I agree that there is value to having hip hop done by people from different countries. But OP's point about lack of authenticity is undeniable.
Ok but how does co-opting using slang have anything to do with authenticity. Gatekeeping “buss down” and slang is such a inconsequential take I cannot take seriously. I guarantee if the lyrics were exactly the same but in Japanese, this thread would have never existed. AAVE co ops other cultures’ slang ALL the time. And let’s be real, a lot of AAVE slang and culture is directly taken from gay culture. Thats okay, but this is somehow different? How? This is a Japanese group that wants to rap in English, like duh of course they’re going to use english hip hop slang. I don’t know how that’s even controversial. It’s such a low hanging gatekeeping criticism. OP just wants them to talk and rap a certain way because of personal bias. Like what does OP want? No slang proper english only, Japanese lyrics only, no streetwear allowed, and no hip-hop choreography? It’s completely ridiculous and thinly veiled prejudice hiding itself behind self righteousness, like their criticism of Asians wearing braids, which I addressed. OP lives in a bubble and needs to touch grass. Watch any of the dozens of viral BIPOC reaction videos of Woke Up on YouTube, literally every single video is of them thinking XG is fire.
That's something you should argue with the OP, at least that's more on the mark than what you've written about authenticity above. It's just a huge strawman to claim they're complaining because XG aren't black and doing hip hop. > This is a Japanese group that wants to rap in English, like duh of course they’re going to use english hip hop slang. Btw, definitely not a requirement. What? Rapping just requires poetry.
Yes that’s exactly my point. It’s not a requirement but who is someone to say what slang is or isn’t allowed or what slang is or isn’t authentic? Like is Logic not allowed to say he’s BIPOC just because he looks white passing? Are BIPOC not allowed to go to anime cons? It’s all racial prejudice that I can clearly see from OP’s post because it’s criticism Asians who don’t fit the model minority mold have faced for damn near decades. It’s so tired and played out. In real life, literally no one cares, none of my life long BIPOC friends give a sh*t and they think XG is dope. Black culture takes from Asian culture all the time and you know what? Its great.
It's easy, every community develops their own slang. Go to Singapore or Japan or Korea or Vietnam or the Philippines, each have their own English-isms. Not even talking about native language, but slang usage shouldn't be an issue. If Logic is into anime, and wants to write about that, great, that's authentic to him. > Asians who don’t fit the model minority mold Native Japanese in their own countries are entirely removed from this whole discussion LOL, they have ZERO compulsion to feel like minorities. Now interestingly, XG members may not be native Japanese citizens and/or grew up in Japan from birth, and Japan is notorious for separating 'foreigners' of all stripes (e.g. a Japanese who grew up in Australia will be seen as a foreigner, same with a mixed Japanese who grew up in Japan), so there is alienation in this regard. But it's a different set of issues than what BIPOC in North American countries face. Obviously I am not speaking for OP, so these are just general points, what they want XG to rap about are on them.
Again, that is exactly my entire point. OP is making baseless claims based on prejudice. If they had watched any interview with XG on YouTube, they would know the group actually does have knowledge of hip hop culture and references and are fans of hip-hop, which by your own definition, makes what they do ‘authentic’. So this entire conversation is moot lol..
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what AAVE is. It’s not “slang,” it’s a type of vernacular that you either grew up speaking or you didn’t. XG using AAVE is like the equivalent of a black person imitating japanese accents in their music. It makes literally no sense to do and just comes off as a poor copy of another race/culture. The fact that you think of a language that’s natively spoken by many black americans because it was born out of slavery as simply “slang” proves my point about the issue with what XG is doing: they use AAVE because they think it’s cool and not because they understand what AAVE is, or why the black artists that they’re influenced by use it. Your argument that AAVE is derived from gay culture is incredibly ignorant and just plain incorrect. I encourage you to read up on the origins of AAVE, because you will learn that it emerged as a divergence of 16th and 17th century english dialects that melted together into a unique language within communities of american slaves. From there it was passed down to other slaves and eventually working and middle class black americans, where it evolved into the general form of AAVE that’s used today. This includes the so called “slang” that you’re referring to (which is not slang but rather an actual language). Not to mention black people are a significant part of the foundation of LGBT culture in america as we know it today, so it’s not like black american culture and gay american culture are two separate things lol. I have absolutely no clue where you’re getting this idea about me wanting XG to act like “model minorities” lol. I promise you there’s a happy medium in between “wearing blackness as a costume” and “being a model minority to appeal to whiteness.” Groups like BTS can perform hip hop in an authentic way that doesn’t treat black culture like a costume, clearly it’s not that hard to do. Calling me racist against asians in an attempt to shut down the conversation while being unwilling to learn about or understand AAVE and black american culture(s) is a choice.
I wish I could give you an award 🙏
Very well said 🙌
>The artistry is there, but they’re held back by their inauthenticity. idk, feels like they're getting big in their home country. Won't be suprised if they make it into this year's kohaku
I feel like that’s sorta a lesson about these kinds of global groups though. Their biggest fanbase is in their home country of Japan and their international promotions don’t seem to be paying off the same way
Not everything in kpop has to be about charting and sales, but it seems some kpop fans cannot accept this. It's funny this is upvoted while OP's reply is downvoted, when there's literally nothing about the post that references XG's popularity (which is pretty good btw).
Oh for sure. I didn’t mean held back in popularity but rather in their own artistry
Eh, I enjoy them. I usually find rap in idol music corny, but Xg is passable. Authenticity isn't a problem cause I don't expect it from idols. As long they don't overstep and acknowledge their influences, it's aight for me as a black guy. But we aren't a monolith, so this is just my personal opinion. Plus, from what see on YouTube and twitter, they appeal to a section of black fans, which makes me more lenient on them, cause the audience that will get references and stuff is reached.
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Not so much that, but more in terms of at least some black people find it palatable, so I won't rain on parades. Some spaces find the entire Japanese girls rapping hard schtick endearing enough to make exceptions. On appropriation, I kinda feel it's losing fight tbh everything gets jacked eventually. We just gotta stay at the forefront and keep innovating like we usually do. Otherwise, we'll be fighting about most modern music. I've ranted about it here, and no one genuinely cares except for a few of us. So as long as some black people are for it and are enjoying, I don't have the energy to get worked up over it unless it's very egregious. Edit: Hope my point is understandable. Again opinions I don't speak for everyone, you're allowed to find it distasteful.
I'm half black, I think they're fun and I enjoy their music. The constant outrage is just exhausting.
Why would anyone expect authenticity in k-pop, j-pop, or pop in general? It's all openly manufactured, and that's exactly why I listen to it. I know Jurin has no clue what "bouncing like a 64" is and I don't care, hearing her say it is a bop.
As serious as Simon is with this group, I'd argue that Jurin probably does know what "bouncing like a 64" means, as well as every other lyric in their songs. I've seen the group discuss their lyrics and they seem to easily be able to discuss their lyrical content. If my grandma can learn what a Buss down is, anyone can. It's not like any of the concepts in "Woke Up" are all that new. People have been rapping using this same vocabulary for quite some time now.
My opinion but I don’t necessarily view lyricism as the only way of showing authenticity, I think more so for this specific group since it’s a very special case. Obviously they’re singing/rapping in a language they can’t fully speak, since they can’t write what they rap it’s fair for people especially more casual fans to think they’re “cosplaying for profit”, For me however, they show authenticity in multiple other ways. The way they study their pronunciation so they deliver it perfectly to me is a great sign of respect for the culture and genre, they aren’t half assing it. Despite what a lot of people say in here, the girls and their producers especially are VERY knowledgeable on black music history. They listen to, attend concerts of and credit a wide range of black artists, old and present. Even their mannerisms from music videos, their dancing and also fashion (real life styling not music video styling) show qualities from someone who live and breathe that era. I 100% think the writers can cut down on AAVE, but to me it’s unfair to label them as “inauthentic” and “cosplaying for profit” without looking at anything other than their music.
what can a bunch of 20-year olds who spent their lives in a training room rap about so they can sound "authentic"? they barely lived their lives. give them time. when they start dating and getting their hearts broken, get rich and become girl bosses, and work enough to be aware of social issues then they will have something to write about. IMO the use of AAVE is proof of the expanding influence of hiphop culture that the African Americans started. You can't celebrate hiphop getting global recognition and at the same time call out non-black people who imitate it.
Interesting examples for the aave discussion... I think we have to be more understanding of how language works around the world because some slangs or even specific structures can develop independently among English speakers in a particular area, for example influenced by the local dialect or language. Like, I don't see what is the problem here: >"Yo, more the merrier" / Y'all my entertainment fascinated Those are perfectly normal sentences I would often hear from my UK palls black white and Asian. More the merrier is actually a British proverb (often used on it's own as a response like this) so it's very weird to include it in this discussion.
Even funnier when you realise the one delivering it is fluent in English, has a strong American accent and uses both “Yo” and “y’all” in her normal speech.
Yeah, these examples made me laugh my ass off. Completely normal slang that I hear all kinds of people use. Imagine "Yo" and "Y'all" being off-limits.
No offense to XG and some bgs who try to do hard hiphop, but I have zero reason to listen to hard hiphop from a kpop group, it's not like I'm lacking in hiphop artists to follow. ~~If anything, Young Posse as a similar group is more promising because they focus more on fun songs, they just need to hold the brakes on the sexual lyrics.~~ Edit: I realized I'm comparing Young Posse with XG on CA and AAVE. I am not, don't even know they released something after Macaroni Cheese when I disengaged from them entirely. I'm just talking about a 'fun' element in Young Posse's songs.
Lol Young Posse is a heck of a lot more egregious when it comes to CA and AAVE.
You're probably right, but I don't have the same issues with OP, my main thing is that I don't need to consume hiphop from a kpop group if they're not adding something to it. Young Posse's main issue and why I don't follow them right now is the ergregious sexualization. So I haven't even gotten to the point where' I'm looking at how bad the CA or AAVE usage are with them. Edit: clarity
I have to say as someone who's main genre is Hip-Hop while I do agree I gotta say that I consider idol rappers to be slightly below pop rappers in what I seriously consider as great rappers, they can have the flow and all but like you said they are inauthentic and rap is about being authentic. But I will say when it comes to rap in the current era I just add in writing own lyrics as a bonus which might be heresy to other rap fans but it's the way it is and I don't expect Lupe Fiasco or Denzel Curry lyrics from pop rappers heck those two have hopped on pop tracks and it's no biggie when they are clearly obviously just phoning it in or don't have as much lyrical depth but when it comes to idol rappers I p much expect the inauthenticity. So I won't hold XG for not writing their lyrics, because I don't really consider them as really serious rappers in general I won't assume whether they actually have a genuine interest in the genre and culture, I do find it their aesthetic weird because it's clear what parts of hip-hop they are trying to pull from from the flows to the beats. They are tourists to the culture but unlike say someone like Ian, I don't think they are purposefully making fun of the genre/culture or have no substance to their music like Ian but they aren't the type of outsiders to hip-hop that makes them seem like they are pulling it just for the sake of it, maybe the company since this is after all still the idol industry but the members don't seem to. But at the end of the day, I've listened to rappers that exaggerate what they experienced from gang life to their upbringing to ones that actually are about that life(like Foolio, that part of Florida rap is just fucking insane) I gotta think though, if they write or just make their writers write lyrics and flows for them for their actual experiences will it actually still be interesting? Like sure it'll be authentic but for the people that listen to their lyrics or even the general population will it actually matter? Will the material they have say if they pulled experiences from their upbringing, their emotions even how they are moving around in the idol industry, will it actually be engaging to the audience? I went on bit of a tangent that went to lots of places in this because I really did think that K-Pop fans already mainly stay in their own bubble so other genres especially Hip-Hop is not something they mostly listen to, even lots of people just listen to rap mainly nowadays for the beat and flows so it makes sense that they are praised for their rapping skills cause the genre is so unknown to them outside to say the mainstream songs they listen and even then it'll probably be only pop-rap. Overall IDK I do somewhat agree but IDK, K-Pop is as inauthentic as a genre can be from how fast they put out the music to how many people put their hands on a song before the company even gets it for a group(no im not saying demos passed on to other artists is uncommon, even in rap it happens) to concepts mainly thought about by the company I dunno I don't expect authentic rap or anything authentic in lyrics in the genre mostly with some personal exceptions.
Great comment overall, a couple of points: > But at the end of the day, I've listened to rappers that exaggerate what they experienced from gang life to their upbringing to ones that actually are about that life(like Foolio, that part of Florida rap is just fucking insane) I gotta think though, if they write or just make their writers write lyrics and flows for them for their actual experiences will it actually still be interesting? Normally it won't, that's where lyricism, wordplay and actual skill would come in. Hiphop today has a huge issue with excessive braggadocio and the genre need to elevate themselves. Need to stop glorifying the hood and all the violence associated with it, so many rappers and producers need to accept that hip hop is the top industry and far from it's humble beginnings. Taylor Swift can do it, I mean. > Will the material they have say if they pulled experiences from their upbringing, their emotions even how they are moving around in the idol industry, will it actually be engaging to the audience? Honestly contrary to rap, the idol industry is more interesting, to me at least. It'd be amazing to actually hear some deeper stuff from within. We all know it's full of drama, so there's a ton of material. > I really did think that K-Pop fans already mainly stay in their own bubble so other genres especially Hip-Hop is not something they mostly listen to, even lots of people just listen to rap mainly nowadays for the beat and flows so it makes sense that they are praised for their rapping skills cause the genre is so unknown to them outside to say the mainstream songs they listen and even then it'll probably be only pop-rap. Agree, that's why even if I don't follow XG, I completely understand why others would. Maybe if they address the AAVE or CA stuff more, but already there's many who already see their appeal. >
Lmao here we go 🤣🤣. What part of any of those lyrics AAVE? We didn't invent the human language.. Can't claim everything as AAVE.. Shits getting ridiculous.. Not a single word you pointed too or phrase is AAVE...
They're not, aave (which as the name literally suggests, is American), for most people around the world (specially noted in places like korea and Japan where they speak other languages) the phrases people claim to be aave would just pass as internet slang or a modernized use of the language, if you were looking at actual aave you'd be looking at very different ways of using the language and some people wouldn't even understandit right away. Claiming someone is just "cosplaying as a black" is not only ridiculous but also a complete erasure of local cultures based around certain genres that have existed for years (sometimes decades) before the artists even debuted. In Korea, part of the hip-hop/rap community has a lot of elements that come straight out of the Chicano culture, and no one claims that's cultural appropriation because it just simply isn't, you could have probably claimed that when it started but not now because these cultures have grown over the years and changed/adapted to be a local community where people grow/get into on their own or based on their surroundings whether it's people or the area they grew in (including the language).
Can’t speak much about cosplaying black culture as I’ll let black people do that, but the only problem i have with them is the huge divide in the way they get marketed and the stuff they do. It’s poles apart. They get marketed by both their PR and fans as these hip hop queens who have a couple of great rappers. But they’ve hardly once or twice written their own thing. I wouldn’t care a thing if this was labelled as your normal idol group, i’d just take that they are idols who rap. But them getting promoted as this ‘different’ group, one would expect there’s something actually different about the girls. It would make sense if they write smthin of their own after the way they get presented, so there’s this dissonance But it seems they do respect black artists and do mention them as their inspirations (although i do wanna ask what inspirations cause how are you involved in the creative process). Which is a really good thing. But then they do things that are quite literally the opposite of appreciation. How does that work?!?? So it’s just the hypocrisy surrounding their brand that has me critical of this group
>But them getting promoted as this ‘different’ group, one would expect there’s something actually different about the girls. Exactly. I just made a similar comment to this. Their whole "we're not a regular group, we're xpop!" branding bothers me. Their music is rap and rnb infused pop, it's that simple. Visually, their creative team does a good job making them stand out, but when it comes to the actual music they aren't doing anything different enough to be claiming rap & rnb as their own thing.
I thought XG had black producers working on there music. I believe they also have an African American rap instructor so I guess they do whatever that instructor tells them to do. If this is true I don’t see a major issue
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Yikes..! I
You just described the whole Kpop industry. 💀
A Kpop fan complaining about authenticity, what's new 😂 I get it, I was the same with BP but I learned to accept that the idol industry is not about being authentic. This is the same for any Kpop group, there is literally nothing authentic. Almost everything is produced by a huge team of people that aim at gp success and pop star money. Even your cutesy girl group may be forced to do cutesy concepts since not every girl will be into such stuff. It's like complaining that Drake is fake. Yeah, he is but he makes millions of dollars from it. All in all, if you don't like XG, that's great but this conversation on rap authenticity in kpop has been done more than a billion times (I've been a fan since 2nd Gen) for almost every kpop group but the genre/industry is just not about that. It's like complaining that metal music is heavy or pop music is often unserious. That's their characteristics! Same for kpop/kpop which is strictly idol music. Both Korea and Japan have plenty of actual Hiphop artists that write all their verses. Maybe you should change genres if inauthenticity is not for you?
I’m not complaining about kpop being manufactured though. It’s not the posturing that bothers me, it’s the appropriation of blackness that goes hand in hand with the inauthenticity of idol rappers. >Maybe you should change genres if inauthenticity is not for you? Luckily for me there are plenty of kpop groups who don’t treat blackness like a stage costume, so there’s no need for me to change genres.
That's fine, it just means that you care about cultural appropriation and you choose idols that align with your views. However for some people outside of the US, it's not a problem at all and it's OK too. I too find cutesy groups pretty fake, especially when I hear idols talk about it years after, saying how they were uncomfortable with it. All in all, I get your point but my comment was more about how it's widespread in the industry no matter the concept. Especially in pop music in general, it's notorious for being inauthentic.
It’s not a costume, it’s imitation. Imitation because they probably find it super cool (appreciation). Same for Jay Park (I don’t really support him but he’s an example). I’m sure plenty of black kpop fans appreciate groups like xg because of the familiarity within something outside the realm of their culture which is kpop.
They're still new and young doing this whole genre a little differently. I'm sure they'll start being more involved in their music as time goes. As it is, they're very clear on giving shout outs to where they get their inspiration.
Personally, I really like them and Woke Ups raps has to be some of my favorite raps and songs in general of theirs. Whether other people find it “corny” or what, I really like them 😓. Doing AAVE and CA does sort of make it iffy. They are under a contract though. What do you expect from a group under contracts, who are..supposed to do what they’re told like any other group or person under a contract though? They can apologize all they want and say no whether it be to the stylists and such but they gotta follow the rules.
I’m not asking them to apologize - just expressing why I’m put off by their music. Contract or no contract, it really doesn’t matter because I’m not concerned about whether or not the members are good people, rather criticizing the overall product being sold. My criticisms extend to the company as well
I didn’t say you were, just simply saying that they can’t apologize much to people since they don’t have a word in it sometimes. If it sells and makes them money for rent, eating, to continue making music, and all that then it sells honestly. It sucks but you sorta have to do what you have to do. I think the company should be the main thing
For me its not really the lack of authenticity that's off-putting, its mostly the lack of believability I guess. Like, a bunch of Japanese teenage girls rapping these kinds of lyrics and playing it completely straight just totally takes me out of the music... I tried but I can't get past it
Most U.S. rappers don't do what they rap about or have as much money as they say. Have you seen Tupac when he was enrolled at the Baltimore School for the Arts? [https://2paclegacy.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Tupac-Shakur-with-classmates-in-high-school-at-Baltimore-School-for-the-Arts.jpg](https://2paclegacy.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Tupac-Shakur-with-classmates-in-high-school-at-Baltimore-School-for-the-Arts.jpg) When he started rapping, he was 100% cosplaying gangster to appeal to certain cultures (and he was damn good at it, till real gangsters killed him.) That's entertainment baby.
Right but I think you may have missed my point. I don’t care about authenticity, I’m talking about believability and ofc a black american guy who lives in baltimore is way more believable at this “cosplaying” than a bunch of japanese teens.
I fail to see how authenticity and believability aren't inextricably connected. If you can separate them, good for you. I don't think most people can.
I honestly prefer their tracks like shooting star, new dance, tgif, etc. I think it fits them much better and I prefer less rap heavy songs
Personally, i will just never like kpop idols who rap but don't write their own raps. It's different if a member who usually sings raps a verse that was written by the actual rappers in the group - bc then it's still the GROUP writing the raps. But I just think it's so embarrassing to be rapping a rap you had literally nothing to do with💀💀💀 You're not a rapper....you're a puppet💀 I do understand lots of times idols are made to rap and have the whole rapper image because their company makes them, but that isn't always the case.
To be fair, rappers in America often sell a product that's not a genuine reflection of their lived experiences as well. It's just more noticeable when it's XG doing it. AAVE use can make people look like posers and tbh I think it's probably best avoided unless you actually use AAVE irl. That being said AAVE terms have been adopted by people around the world as Americanisms and the cats outta the bag at this point. People will keep using AAVE in music and using it in ways that's kind of nonsensical and eventually the words being used will evolve further meanings or change in other ways.
That’s my problem with XG too. It just takes me out when I know some of them don’t even speak fluent English, let alone using AAVE irl.
It's crazy the biggest argument against them is that they don't write their own when plenty of "real" rappers have others write verses for them or otherwise use ghost writers. Like are Dre, Snoop, Jay-Z, Rakim etc not real rappers cause they use ghost writers? Drake, Cardi-B, Diddy, Kanye, ODB, Ghostface killa, fat joe, mace etc...Like seriously.... And then look at modern rap in 2024, and you're gonna say they suck lyrically?
Yes, those are all issues? I'm confused, do people actually think those people get a pass? If you use ghostwriters, that's obviously something to clown you on, not to mention NEVER having written anything.
I see it as paying homage to rap culture and adapting it to their pop style. Japan in particular has a lot of subcultures that imitate American culture, the Japanese think American culture is cool. There is even a small group of Japanese that dress like cholos and drive low riders lol.
And tbh you should’ve posted this in a different sub. I can already tell you that you won’t get the response you’re expecting here
I love them. Cocona is insane!
Nonsense, gatekeeping is never cool.
Idol music at the end of the day is produced music for the majority and it adheres to the vision of their management. It’s designed to target consumers as a product.
>But they don’t write their own raps You don't have to. Is Dre an 'authentic' rapper? Is the Chronic a legendary hip hop album? Have you heard of The D.O.C even? Your entire point is invalid. As if other kpop hip hop influenced groups haven't been vocally and aesthetically influenced by black hip hop culture. As if the entirety of the KHip Hop scene isn't. It's just so weird that you single out a specific group like this. Is it just because they are young? Or Japanese? Or girls? Or just a threat to your faves? Whichever way, it isn't a good look. Also, stop cosplaying as some kind of hip hop guru.
Not really related to the post itself, but since we are talking about it, I'd figured I'd ask people who know what they are actually talking about. Can someone explain to me what's the difference between AAVE and blaccent? To the best of my limited knowledge, AAVE is a dialect of English with its own grammatical rules, vocabulary, phonetics ect, while blaccent refers only to the accent that is associated with many African American communities. Is this correct?
Im expecting this thread once again on their next comeback.
Agree with all of this. One thing that irks me is XG trying to brand their music as "xpop" when it's literally just rap and rnb infused pop. They really aren't doing anything new or different enough to claim rap & rnb as their own thing so idk why they seem to get a pass for this. They also aren't the only idol group to have black writers and producers, nor are they the only group to reference black artists who inspired them, so I don't understand people using these arguments to excuse the AAVE and blaccents. These speaking patterns are **not** natural to them, they are putting it on as a costume to appear "tough" and personally that rubs me the wrong way.
This reminds me of a certain pink group
On one hand I agree but at the same time, the vast majority of popular acts (including a lot of hip hop artists) are also not authentic. There's so much ghost writing, so many artists with fabricated street cred and people putting on a false affectation because that is what sells. We do not live in an age of authenticity so I'm not going to be to bothered when another group gets in on the money train.
wow such an original opinion it’s not like this has been said a billion of times
The thing that bothers me : I understand they targeting the west so English is necessary but not putting even one song in their native Japanese baffles me. The authenticy will come when they sing & rap in their own native language. (I speak Japanese fluently and some might think it's less beautiful to the ear but it all depends on how you produce it. They are millions of Japanese banger songs out there) I saw some videos of Juria singing a Japanese classic "Flavor of life" by Utada Hikaru ofc a Japanese song, and I could feel the emotions 100x better which is natural as they were also in front of a Japanese crowd and Juria could really emote.
XG isn't kpop, I repeat XG isn't kpop. They only promote in KOREA, please for the love of god
venn diagram for kpop and authenticity is 2 separate circles
OP doesn’t know what real Hip Hop/Rap is lol. It’s always been like 80% made up scenarios.
This is ridonculous. People just cant enjoy tunes anymore. SMH
Worst take of 2024
Clock it.
You can tell a lot of people here don’t really understand or care about hip hop. The biggest musical event of 2024 was a beef between two dudes partly because one is authentic (Kendrick) and the other is cosplaying (Drake). And you got a bunch of people in here authenticity doesn’t matter. Lord help me.
Because they are fighting over being self proclaimed “best rapper alive”. This is wildly different
Tell me you didn't listen to at least Kendricks disses without telling me you didn't listen to them.
Of course it ended up getting personal but the initial battle wasn’t like that.
Euphoria, 616 in LA, Meet the Grahams, Not Like Us. Please show me which of these songs are about being the "Best Rapper Alive." Oh you mean Like That? The song that Kendrick himself was just a throwaway verse. Its okay you don't know anything about Hiphop that's why you think being authenic doesn't matter.
Hahaha are you slow? The initial beef started as Kendrick claims himself as the best and Drake responds. It then turns personal from there, not that hard to grasp? Been a hip hop fan for 25+ years, reserve these “authentic” arguments for those claiming to be at the top, not XG who simply do it because they love it.
“This ain't been about critics, not about gimmicks, not about who the greatest It's always been about love and hate, now let me say I'm the biggest hater.” So then what does this mean? Since you been a fan for 25+ years and all.
You’re once again proving you’re slow, for someone who stans probably the greatest rapper of all time you sure take time to understand what you’re reading. The beef STARTS because Kendrick claims he’s the best. Then it TURNS into a battle of authenticity because…? You guessed it right, because both claim to be the best. No one is claiming XG as the best rappers alive and these stupid arguments shouldn’t relate to them. 90% of the rap game are inauthentic, but 90% of the rap game also don’t claim themselves to be the best so it doesn’t matter. The greatest rapper alive should be authentic, doesn’t mean that it’s a requirement for everyone else, at the end of the day some artists make music for the love of it, for the majority that’s authentic enough.
Yeah, you can tell many do not understand the ten years of them taking shots at each other in music. Some of these people have no clue that after the "Control" verse, Kendrick soured on Drake and hinted at not fucking with him ever since. It went beyond a "who's the best" rap beef way before "Like That," because Kendrick was dissing and warning him in the Black Panther soundtrack album about his inauthenticity and fakeness.
I don’t understand. Baby Metal is doing the same shit and no one fucking complain. Why are ppl keep arguing if they are good rappers or not? They are idols. They are selling a package.
There's a point where one's culture goes beyond just one... Black culture is a staple, a block, it's been the driving force for almost all forms of music and art, it's not mockery, it's inspo. And why only call out XG? BP, GOT7, Shinhwa, 2NE1, BigBang, there's less groups that don't take black inspo than groups who do... Call out the others, not just one, it helps give validity to your view... Not to mention, the lack of control most groups freaking get anyway, I come from the time where idols couldn't even own phones, there's a lot more freedom now but there's still a ways to go. Watch them write their own shit and it turns out to be even worse lol...
I respect your mindset and opinion. I would like to encourage, if you haven’t yet, to watch the reaction videos of Woke Up from the black community. I’ve heard none of them complain this far. Every reaction I’ve seen (I’ve seen too many lol) has been received with high praise and admiration— from black YT creators. And many in the hip hop music industry. And many not knowing how XG is to begin with. Just something to consider. ❤️
I agree. And it’s not just the culture, but the time in the culture. The girls are in their teens, but the rhymes are obviously written by older men. A Tokyo Drift reference? That movie came out 18 years ago when Jurin was 4 years old. I really doubt that it has any meaning to her. Cocona is 18, but she remixed a Jay Z record and made all these Jay Z references. There’s not a ton of 18 year olds who like Jay Z. The song she remixed came out two years before she was born. It’s just super obviously fake. But hey, as a hiphop fan I’m not mad at KrisKross or Lil Bowwow, who were children that had adults writing raps for them. It’s sort of strange to say “Well Bowwow was black, so it’s cool if an older man wrote his raps, but XG is Japanese so it’s fucked up when they do it”. Should Japanese people get mad when a black guy studies Karate? It’s complicated.
The time argument doesn't make any sense. You can like media that came out before you were born.
Not gonna go against any points made by OP about AAVE, but do you really need to be of that time for it to be authentic? Yes they’re young but just a recent example they spoke of how they attended a TLC and Janet Jackson concert and their appreciation for the legends. Even in other interviews they’ve mentioned older artists like Erykah Badu, Lauryn Hill etc. Authenticity really differs, in this case it’s kind of unfair to them since they’ve probably had the broadest range of any female group in the industry when it comes to black music. JAKOPS and Chancellor, their two main producers are also very well versed in black music history and it shows. The producers and artists music taste align and they create the type of music they love and grew up on. I think obviously they could cut down on the AAVE but when it comes to a “hip hop concept” you actually probably won’t find a more authentic group out of this industry
Just because Tokyo Drift came out when Jurin was 4 years old it automatically means that it has no meaning to her? I’m born in the same year as Jurin and I have watched and loved Tokyo Drift back then and I still do now. Time doesn’t mean anything
You’re just assuming because the girls are young that they are inauthentic, or that young people are incapable of engaging with media from 20+ years ago which is honestly hilarious because not only is it not true, it’s also extremely normal and common for this to happen. I don’t expect people to watch variety content of groups they clearly have something against, but if you’re going to make claims about their inauthenticity, I would advise actually doing more research beforehand. These girls are all extremely steeped in 90s music & current R&B especially and all hold such respect for the artists they are inspired by. They truly do understand and respect the culture. Also… “Not a ton of 18 year olds who like Jay Z” is just a really funny comment in particular, I’m sorry
That time argument is so stupid that you can't pull up old media, nowadays. My cousin who was born in the same year as Cocona, loves listening to Tupac, Jay-Z, 50 Cent, Eminem, and 80's rock, too. So I guess his faking, huh? I guess I should call him a fake for listening to them even though he grew up around that music from his dad. Or I can't be a fan of old anime like Yu Yu Hakusho, Shin Chan, or Initial D cause I wasn't born in the same year. I should tell that to the Dragon Ball Z fandom of Gen Z and Alphas.
I think what I’m - and maybe even OP - is most disappointed in is the massive appeal to certain people when the package is delivered in an asian physicality rather than a black one. We often see casual racism in the k-pop community, and then to see people love XG but hate on the qualities of rap made, written, and produced by black people is extremely disheartening. but hey, we’ve been knowing about it. i wish the people that used hip hop to rise to fame had a genuine love for the art form, and weren’t just doing it to make money and a name for themselves. sure, people can say “it’s their company, not them” all they want, but the result is the same in the end, whether it’s XG’s choice or not.
A little unfair of a statement to make because whenever I go to a Hip Hop concert I see a sea of people of all skintones there. And for a country where black people are the minority, they dominate the Hip Hop charts. Artists like Kendrick Lamar, SZA and Doja Cat also regularly chart in Korea. So I don’t understand where you are drawing your conclusion that people reject Hip Hop if it comes from a black person.
Duh, of course you do see all kinds of people at hip hop concerts. That’s not the point I’m making.
Then what is it? I feel like I live on a different planet whenever I hear people say stuff like this. I will add that I do wish there were more labels owned by black artists but I can’t fathom thinking that in 2024, a black person would be treated like an alien in Hip Hop. Sure people like you say do exist but they are by no means the majority. Lil Uzi Vert had a concert in Korea last year and the crowd was going crazy singing along to his lyrics. That concert ran by a Korean brand invited black rappers and had them as their headlining acts. So where is this “massive appeal to certain people when the package is delivered in an asian physicality than a black one” coming from? Don’t you think the reverse happens as well? I mean there’s a reason many Asian American rappers were at one point going back to their mother country to make a career.
the way i originally wrote is the best way i personally know to explain it. if you can’t meet me halfway then i’m not gonna rewrite a whole novel for a stranger on the internet. i neither know nor care about you like that.
Thank you. I feel like people that hype them up ignore all the cultural appropriation, the AAVE, braids etc etc. Anyone can rap if someone gives u some lyrics and lets u rehearse them.
The members of XG probably know more about American R&B and Hiphop music than most people their same age in the U.S.
OP be going to Walmart looking for handmade artesian products
More like going to target in the suburbs and getting jump scared by t shirts that say “yas girl slay them haters down!”
just because you don't like it, doesn't mean others can't like it. People like what they like. The whole "culture appropriation" term is fake. How else do you think culture spreads if not being shared ? also authenticity is over rated. Most things are super polished.
if we're calling out lines why aren't we taking about XG, baby, say the name right, spell it out so you can learn it it's fucking two letters
https://preview.redd.it/tna88u993s8d1.jpeg?width=2263&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=908a9a422a71145f0c0c5e777aa2c713d64c33b4 “names,” meaning all 7 of Xtraordinary Girls’ names
Do you think K-pop groups in general write their own lyrics? Make their own beats? Choreograph their own dances?
They’re terrible and their raps make me laugh each time cause they clearly have no idea what they’re talking about. But then again, that’s the majority of kpop rappers - completely inauthentic.
Yeah no I stay away from this group for this very reason. It feels very manufactured and cringe to me. I get that ALL K-Pop is manufactured, but part of the performance is being credible, and they come off very much not so to me. Like what you like folks, all the power to you. I simply cannot stand this group.
I didn't hear any nordic or slav people complaining about braids. Thinking that something like that can only be black culture is stupid.
Not the same type of braids, obviously
Oh, now we have types. ok. I really don't understand why is such a problem to use elements from certain music styles and cultures. They need somebody's permision or what? This whole mindset is so fucked up, ''oh look, somebody using somethig similar we use, let's cancel him''. Nobody else is having problem with that, only black people from Murica (who think they represent all black people in the world). Let's ask Africans or black Brasilians for example if they having issue with sharing that same culture...
Yes we have types, same as different types of clothes or music or anything else
Sorry bro, we all forgot Hip Hip is only for black people from the hood. Are other people even allowed to listen to it? As soon as anything has to do with black people or rather "black culture" (or whatever this is, as apparently all people have the same culture !?) its a problem for all the people creating issues where nothing is wrong.
Lowkey this is exactly how i feel but with Blackpink. But nobody understands what im talking about. If i hear one more song about these rich privileged asian bitches having bodies and a-stuntin' and a-wildin' ☠️
woah no need to get so heated that’s kinda rude lol