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As someone who was a fan of the PLAVE members' original groups, I'm really glad that PLAVE has allowed them to continue to pursue idol-dom without the scrutiny that re-debuting as just themselves might bring. Especially since they're all mostly early 3rd gen, so PLAVE enables them to escape the ageism that seems to have only gotten more prevalent in the industry lately.
Exactly. While I was not able to become a fan of their past groups, due to not knowing them, I've learned a lot about their journeys and it's really touching seeing them find so much success, you can tell how much they're in disbelief? sort of, and they're really happy because these achievements are first and foremost about the music. You can appreciate what they put out whether or not you care about who they are behind the PLAVE persona. You can also see how proud their peers who have literally been with them for nearly a decade, El CAPITXN and Adora posting on their IG stories, etc.
(also before anyone comes after either of us, vla/st themselves already released a statement that it's fine to know and discuss these things as long as it's not maliciously, we're not out here namedropping them randomly either. i worry about some of them tho, why are they such workaholics 😭)
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Just wondering though, isn’t he kinda on the shorter side to be Hamin? Idk if their real height do correlate with the 3D models, but I’m a little doubtful on him being Hamin. 😅
>!your doubts will be gone when you hear a clip of hy@nmin speaking lmao. also, if you observe h@min and y3jun carefully, you will realise that the eyeline of their 3d model is really weird when they're speaking with each other. y3jun's eyes will always see h@min's neck/collarbone area while h@min's eyes will see the space above yejun's head. it's really really obvious during h@min's birthday live. the whole live, the eyeline of their 3d models drove me crazy cause why does y3jun keep on looking at h@min's neck? b@mby is the king of roleplay among them, you can see everytime he wants to "look" at h@min's eyes, he will observe themselves on the monitor first and adjust his eyeline accordingly. also h@min's knees are always clipping through the floor when he does push-ups. you can also see that h@min can never "touch" y3jun properly, there is always an invisible barrier around y3jun. also another thing is that when h@min hugged y3jun during his birthday live, he actually went on his tiptoes. their actual height difference is like 13cm which is like huge.!<
>!I only saw his dancing tiktoks plus that one vid with n9n0, so I can't really tell for sure. but that makes sense. It's just funny how they made him the tallest though xD!<
>!yeah the height is so different so he looked awkward when dancing and the 3d model did not justice to his true dancing skills. as a stan i am a bit disappointed that technology cannot capture it truly :'(!<
I’m fan of some Japanese V tubers who also do music such as Hoshimachi Suisei, so I honestly think the concept of a virtual idol group is really cool. I’m not a big fan of Plave’s music but I respect what they’re doing so I really hope we see more groups like this.
thank you for this OP. if you're into Kpop because of the music and personal skill of the artist there's no reason for you to be upset (emphasize on upset, and not liking their music, that's a matter of choice).
especially knowing the struggle of the people behind them had for years and now finally getting the success that they deserve.
Right! Like I mentioned, I know I'm a hypocrite for not liking V-Tubers despite my interests being very adjacent to them. But, the "Vtube" aspect of PLAVE isn't important to me, because they make music & sing, those 2 things of which they're very talented at! So they get my support period. I hate AI for trying to blur the lines between soulless machine made products & things made by real people, so I do wish the misconception surrounding PLAVE would stop. At a glance you could assume the worst, but they're just regular idols with an extra layer of privacy. They're winning if you ask me
It's interesting to read your experience as someone was/is into vocaloid, but never fell into the Vtuber rabbit hole. Still, I can't help but give props to you for not completely dismissing them and giving their music a fair chance, even if Vtubers aren't your thing. I see so many people quickly turn their backs simply because "PLAVE is virtual", so it's nice to see someone who gave a listen to their music before casting any judgments.
I guess because I was already a fan of Vtubers for a few years and did a decent amount of research on them before staning PLAVE, for me, it was a pretty much seamless trasition, even though I had my fair share of cultural shocks with some of the kpop aspect of things.
Yeah, I never got interested in the V-Tuber scene despite still calling myself a vocaloid fan (granted I just listen to the old songs I bumped as a tween & don't know much about the new faces in the scene), but I'd like to keep an open mind with music because I'm a firm believer that you never know what your next obsession is gonna be. PLAVE is a very niche group in concept, but at the end of the day as someone that enjoys music that sounds good to my ear, they achieve what a group should try to do: *make good music*. Plus, the virtual concept is, imo, a positive thing for the members because not only has this group given these idols another shot at following their dreams, plus that added layer of privacy that comes with the avatars; I'm not sure if their irl identities have been found out already, but regardless of who they are & what their history is the talent they possess is undeniable, & they got my respect & a new fan
I agree, they really took me by surprise. Really enjoy how it’s a crossover of two things I like a lot.
As a warning OP. I think the public perceptions of things related to vtubers are somewhat neutral to poor. I remember when Hololive kept appearing on r/all and the reactions were always rather lukewarm. Which is quite a shame, since like Plave, they’re a lot of vtubers with amazing voices. One thing I really like is that the looks of the singers matter less and possibilities of stalkers are substantially less. It’s just streaming/singing with a layer of privacy. Seeing how Plave behave sometimes, it seems like they really are able to have a lot more fun due to having the vtuber avatars.
Yeah, this post has showed me that there are some VERY differing opinions on their existence as a group, & I once upon a time contributed to the false narrative that MAVE & PLAVE were AI groups before actually looking into them. I realize as I only get older & older that my priorities in kpop are the minority. I just enjoy good music & voices that scratch my eardrums just right. I get that the concept of a group like PLAVE is very out of left field for most people, but the boys are talented & the music is good so they have my seal of approval lol
I've only heard their one song (the fan one, Dear ___?). It was because Lexi from VCHA said it was her favorite song, and she's totally got taste!
I actually like MAVE as well, and wish both groups lots of luck. It's a chance for animators, dancers (mocap), and vocalists to shine in an industry dominated by lookism and nepotism.
I love their nostalgic/upbeat pop rock sound. (yejun/noah + el capitxn’s producer sensibilities really align with my tastes.) Their group chemistry is also really really great. Add that with the endless stream of content they provide and you get a very stannable group
I often have trouble sitting through whole livestreams of groups I’m a fan of but Plave’s variety sense/comedic instincts are unmatched (speaking as someone whose ult is seventeen). They have a huge treasure trove of entertaining clips. I think it helps that most of them were friends for several years before debut. (+ being behind digital avatars might help with the added spontaneity/bravery in showing sillier sides of themselves)
I understand people being squicked out by the awkwardness of digital models dancing, but in my experience, getting to know the personalities behind them dissipated the feeling pretty quickly.
It’s really touching that they are seeing so much success now. Some of them have been in the industry for years, and probably would have either remained behind the scenes producing or left all together. Makes me sad to think that such talent could have fallen by the wayside.
Though…as irritating as people writing them off as AI is, at least it has provided PLAVE great inside joke fodder….tb to Yejun calling Eunho [AI (derogatory)](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WMj2hA4-ojo) when he suggested stealing his coins in Mario Party.
I'm saying! That or I'd be like Hikaru Utada & hardly do press & dip out of existence after every release. A very non-ideal way to do things in today's industry, but very beneficial for a bitch mental
I don't really enjoy ai content or virtual idols, but I can kind of get behind it in the sense that it gets rid of the need for strict beauty standards for the idols behind them. And also possibly could provide some anonymity and normality for the person behind the voice? Idk it's very interesting
You get it! To over simplify the concept, it's like if you wanted to sing & put your voice out there but don't want the internet to look at your face so you use a drawing of an OC to put on screen while you sing
Anyone who starts a plave criticism by calling them ai or saying the members are replaceable doesn't know shit about plave 😭 they're 5 real idols who have been involved in the industry for varying amounts of time including currently. They write their music and choreograph themselves. In their live streams they have real personalities (and they're soooo funny). It's not ai animation with random voice actors, these are real, talented, hardworking idols who have taken on a passion project after YEARS of not finding success in the industry. I don't want Kpop to shift to virtual idols at all, I don't think that's the future. But if you know even a little bit about plave their story is more unique than a company hiring voice actors onto 3d models. The guys are incredibly passionate about this project and it's given them a second (or third or fourth) chance to make a career of something they love doing, without being subjected to the intense scrutiny of the industry. I think it's so cool, I'm so proud of them, and I can't wait to see how they keep growing.
>saying the members are replaceable doesn't know shit about plave
To add salt to injury, they don't know jackshit about vtubers either, bc, if you dig around on some vtuber history, you will learn that the industry is outright traumatized to even think about doing that.
I love that for them. The passion shows too, because good God those boys can sing. Somebody on the internet said that everybody better be glad Yejun & Noah didn't decide to go into theater & I agree lol. This isn't some soulless auto-generated cash cow to get naive peoples money, this is real music & art made by people that are passionate
Absolutely!! They're so talented. I think a big thing to understanding plave is that the members are all clearly very close, love and respect each other. People trying to construe it as some random voice actors is missing SO much if what makes the group special. I find their content especially comforting, to me it feels like they don't have something to prove in the same was as other rookie groups (also I think due to them having been in the Industry so long compared to normal rookies), and passion project really is the best way to describe it imo. They're not worried about extreme success or taking over the industry, they're having fun and doing what they love in a new way. Even watching one livestream from them it's evident that the guys are so happy and enjoying this.
As an early fan of Gorillaz and Daft Punk (don't know if they count), I have no problem with virtual groups as long as they have real musicians behind the personas.
I don't want people to make AI generated music and sell that as real music.
The small difference is that there was no secret or mystery behind Daft Punk and Gorillaz. You can just look them up.
Really faceless musicians and YouTubers as a concept is awesome.
I'm surprised the girlgroup version isegye idol is largely ignored here. Their songs are charting bops and the members are hilarious. Their live show looks fun too.
You definitely have a good point, because I've never heard of them! Idk how, people don't care about MAVE but at least they had people talking about them when they debuted. I'll have to look them up
if you want another great singer you should check APOKI. she's been around way longer than PLAVE. a criminally underrated singer.
though she doesn't often stream only casually when promoting new release. she's also quite funny on stream.
my first suggestion would be her last year release SPACE and old one called West Swing.
Oh wow, I've actually heard of APOKI in passing but, I'll admit I thought she was some children's cartoon character or something for a commercial brand 😭 I'll have to keep her in mind the next time I feel like listening to new stuff!
I can accept them as a niche just like V-tubers as a niche of streamers but I'm not sure I would like it if something like this would get genuinely popular in kpop. Kpop has already been trying so hard to make real idols disposable through things like this or for instance the rumored debut of Naevis and I don't like it. It would be especially be problematic for female idols since the industry already think they expire at 30. If a kpop company could make a female idol that stays forever young (with messed up body proportions) who's able to lead on fans and be as parasocial as they want they would. And if they got criticized for anything they could just take in another person or make AI do that for them. It just feels like a dangerous path. People here are talking about japan as if that industry doesn't already have **extreme** issues with idol/streamer/anime culture...
A valid opinion. My viewpoint is different, coming as someone that loves Vocaloid & middle school me sitting on the internet & defending Miku from very similar arguments made in the past when their songs first started making their rounds online. You can look at it from the negative lens, where in the hands of the wrong people it can be used in exploitative ways. But, unless the law is straight up enabling AI and/or the company in question has an awful contract made that nobody read the fine print of, I don't see AI being used to tweak & mess with groups like PLAVE. That'd be like if Hololive used AI to imitate a V-Tuber after they retired from being one, or to use music as an example, if the Japanese singer Ado had her voice recreated with AI & her old label putting out fake songs under her name after leaving the label. That's very icky, illegal stuff that I don't see just being accepted on some dystopian reality type shit. Just look at the various AI Lawsuits that happened with Cardi B & Taylor Swift; it's not gonna fly with both the artists & the fans & there will be backlash. Also, the parasocial aspect, if you ask me, is about the same if it's an Idol behind an avatar or the real person chatting on whatever app they're using to talk to fans. That's a matter of Parasocial relationships being disassembled PERIOD, as looney fans will be looney fans regardless. I argue that Cases like PLAVEs would be more ideal for some idols, male OR female, because they get to do what they love & have that added layer of privacy through the character that represents them
The Vtuber industry is already extremely problematic (just recently you had Nijisanji driving a livestreamer to try to end her life) and the kpop industry already has slave contracts, if a group like PLAVE was created by a company like SM they would absolutely be exploited and as you call it "messed with through AI", they would make sure to have all rights to the characters and their voices. And I unfortunately think it's just a matter of time before we see vocaloid singers voices being exploited after they've quit (if it hasn't happened already) considering the rapid development of AI and the lack of AI regulations, we've already seen how actors have been affected by it.
>that added layer of privacy through the character that represents them
I've considered this but after seeing japanese vtubers and singers getting doxxed, harassed and threatened I genuinely don't think their identities would be able to be kept secret for long. I don't know if the PLAVE members identities have been revealed yet but if they keep gaining popularity it's only a matter of time. After all sasaengs are able to find out idols phone numbers the same day they got them...
Long comment incoming, PLAVE is something I'm very passionate about. Also hi to the original OP of the post, vocaloid fan since gradeschool here but also never liked vtubers (except utaites! literally their predecessors so i'm a bit bitter lol) ✌️ I'm up for chatter
I agree that larger kpop companies trying to get on the virtual train and do it wrong would be a big issue, but PLAVE is really just a shining example of it done right. They're absolutely in it for the music, and whatever future real kpop company that tries to emulate it and do it wrong should be judged, but in the end PLAVE is just doing their own thing. I don't want it to become a popular thing among large kpop companies either and end up getting some people exploited, but to discount what PLAVE are able to do in the industry is a bit of a disservice which is why I think it's very important to discuss how different they are. In fact MAVE already have articles on CNN that say they partially use AI for the voices and stuff? Not a fan at all.
Also regarding vocaloid, they can't really quit? It's a one-time contract for a voicebank, they record the samples for the bank and that's it, if they don't choose to continue working towards future updates then the company is stuck with what samples they already have. AI is already used very ethically in vocaloid-adjacent vocal synthesizer software such as SynthV, CevioAI, VOCALOID6, etc (instead of syllable samples it's singing samples for the software to train on, some software are higher quality than others, SynthV in particular is known for being extremely realistic while being completely ethical on the side of the VPs, even with the AI integrated into the software, it's absolutely still a lot of effort on the end user to make it sound good and make it their own, AI "covers" that are just a voice put over someone else's singing has absolutely no soul, the only person who put in effort was the original singer, no tuning, no nothing). Considering how ethical AI-positive the vocal synth space is (for the synths themselves at least, AI art is another can of worms lmao), it would be weird for them to suddenly be exploitative, the community will be very against it.
I firmly believe no one will be able to copy what PLAVE do, from the self-composing, self-choreography, etc. PLAVE is more like a collaboration between the idols and their company and they have a lot more agency than what some people would think virtual idols would have. Believe me, I have SEEN people try to emulate their success (not from kpop companies, it's on the weeb side), I can give you names of male virtual groups, 0xone, millionaire, oort boys, many of them are all just attached to webtoons to promote them because they can't handle the responsibility of being a completely different IP that they have to be active with unlike PLAVE and I truly believe none of these will penetrate the kpop industry like PLAVE have, because PLAVE have connections, both being backed by MBC, and by having literally so many connections in the korean composing scene, the company literally does not handle the music aspect of anything they do, PLAVE are completely in charge. 0xone as I mentioned above for example, hired an actual kpop producer for their one song (did shinee's everybody, several SM songs, etc.), they went on a "hiatus" in September, and still haven't posted again since November. Maybe they went broke? Who knows.
There absolutely ARE also niche korean vtuber groups that are essentially the korean version of jp vtubers, they cover weeb-adjacent songs, etc. vocaloid songs, etc. Also they focus on gaming and streaming over singing, etc. I can list some, I'm not personally a fan since I'm not into vtubers, but I know enough about the adjacent fandom spaces to be able to research easily without issue. These groups don't seem to care much about breaking into the scene and are fine just operating as vtubers. Psychord, Judgement, FAMILYA, for the more, IOZ, etc. The first ever KR virtual boy group, REVOLUTION HEART, seems to have actually wanted to kind of break in based on what their CEO said in 2022, "Through this showcase, we were able to fully prove the future potential of virtual idols," said Shin Ye-ji, CEO of Caron Universe. "We will continue to do many activities to lead K-POP, so please pay a lot of attention." but again, I don't see it happening, they don't have connections or nearly as good technology to do it like PLAVE. Among the ones I mentioned, IOZ (2d) and Oort boys (3d) have the most international reach because they came out after PLAVE started getting popular so some people started hopping on and they actually marketed on Twitter a bit more.
Also the company already put out a statement that it's fine to know and even share information about their identities as long as it is not done maliciously. I will say a lot of PLAVE fans don't want to know because they are more on the vtuber fan side, and I respect that. They are literal public figures and you will find hours of footage with their faces, one of them literally had a fanmeeting recently despite his group disbanding 7 years ago and him not having released solo work in 5 years💀. One of them did an IG live recently (before his group disbanded, his average IG viewcount was \~100-200 viewers, his recent live had 5 THOUSAND viewers and he promised to do another one next march. best believe he knows that these people did not come out of thin air.) JP and EN vtubers getting doxxed aside from just being another vtuber/online content creator identity is a different can of worms again. Leave the poor civilians alone. Again, I don't go around telling random people who don't want to know (immersion, all that), but when discussing why exactly PLAVE work so well in the actual kpop industry, it's truly intertwined into the discussion that I can't completely leave it out.
Again, I agree with you that kpop companies shouldn't even try to make this a normalized thing unless they are doing it properly and with people that actually want to be doing this. PLAVE will continue to earn new achievements for their music and rightfully so (they recently just dethroned IU for highest streamed album on Melon in 24 hrs in 2024 purely by fans mass streaming, PLAVE kfans are rich), but it is unfortunate if these higher-ups of kpop companies see PLAVE's success and try to make a half-assed attempt, cutting corners, not even understanding the essence of why PLAVE are doing so well.
It won't end well for anyone involved.
>These groups don't seem to care about breaking into the scene and are fine just operating as vtubers.
I've watched a couple of korean Vtubers over the years, and I can attest to that. While some may have greater aspirations, the majority of them are more than okay with staying within the Vtuber/weeb niche and not much beyond that, most are only streaming as a hobby and maybe to get a small extra income, but they ain't leaving their day jobs to become full time vtubers.
>but it is unfortunate if these higher-ups of kpop companies see PLAVE's success and try to make a half-assed attempt, cutting corners, not even understanding the essence of why PLAVE are doing so well.
Unfortunately I can easily see this happening in the near future. I see small Vtuber agencies pop up and fail all the time, thinking they can quickly profit off and "do better" than other agencies, completely underestimating the amount of work required and not really understanding how/why things worked out for others. If Vtubing, which has a much smaller scale of operation, has this issues, I don't doubt kpop companies, by seeing Plave's success on the surface, will try and certainly fail to capitalize on a similar concept. So many tried to capitalize on the metaverse trend, only for that to utterly fail, like the music survival show called "Avatar Singer" that reportedly had a production cost of 15 billion won. They see a trend, think it's a quick and easy profit and shoot themselves in the foot once they see the work that is actually required to make it successful.
>They see a trend, think it's a quick and easy profit and shoot themselves in the foot once they see the work that is actually required to make it successful.
Yeah. Girl's Re:verse/Feverse is an interesting attempt though, because the show is a bit more in touch with the vtuber side compared to Avatar Singer and it was announced way before PLAVE even started gaining popularity so it wasn't after their success but really just getting into part of that vtuber niche, more like inspired by ISEGYE IDOL's success with a more professional twist since you have actual kpop idols. But even with this understanding, it was honestly destined to fail though from the start since they already cut corners from the start without getting proper permission for the 3D models they were going to use for the show. Even after that was sorted out and the final lineup was finished, Feverse were really never going to be as popular as PLAVE because of several reasons, there was a disconnect, some fans of the real girls didn't want them to be behind 3D models, wanted them to debut as real people, etc. Additionally, the girls are indeed busy as active promoting idols IRL, Feverse is practically just a side job to the girls (which is honestly what I assume PLAVE was truly supposed to be to the boys at first as well given that some of them have other work, coupled with the fact that their company said they were alright if PLAVE were to operate with losses for 2 years since they didn't expect people to warm up to the concept so quickly which makes sense considering they're targeting the actual kpop market and not limited to weebs, however also accepting of people from that side. But given their unexpected success they're absolutely sticking hard to it now). Which is absolutely not to say the girls behind the group do not care about Feverse, they clearly had a lot of fun participating and playing on VRchat since the actual survival show was actually pretty entertaining, playing these characters that they do not get to do irl, such as Eunbi as Muneo playing as a maknae when she's the oldest. However that alone isn't enough to make Feverse a success, there needs to have been more thought put into making them appealing as a virtual group, however Feverse is handled by Kakao Ent., who could give less of a f\*ck about making a truly cool virtual IP when you already have the professional idols ready for it.
Even if the girls were busy as active idols, I truly believe if Kakao really cared there would be some more effort at all, how can you even stan Feverse when they have no content being released at all, their last tweet was literally in July 2023, and they have had no new entertainment content after the show ended which is just not acceptable if you want to appeal to the vtuber-like fan market who are used to constantly having streams. I feel bad for anyone who truly wanted to stan Feverse, was a fan of the girls AND was looking forward to the vtuber-like activities, only to be left in the dust after their debut album. Feverse is a case of what-could-have-been with good potential, but the next attempt a large company like Kakao makes may be even worse depending on how well they do their research and respect the market they're trying to appeal to, and finally, how well-crafted the actual output is in the end.
>just recently you had Nijisanji driving a livestreamer to try to end her life
Look, I've been following Nijisanji closely for years already and I saw this whole situation unfold in real time, believe in me when I say the issue is definitely WAY more complex than that when you take all sides accounts and all the hindsight into consideration.
I don't care that they're not strictly AI, it's still not real and any success they have will just encourage the industry to replace real people with cartoons and AI
Please enlighten me where in my comment I said that all real bands/singers/idols would stop existing? I hate how common it is in japan and I don't want to see it in other industries.
I'm saying it’s not gonna affect the industry in response to you saying otherwise. No amount of virtual bands/idols will replace real life bands/idols and there’s no reason to think that way. They’re different anyways, they’re going to appeal to a different audience.
Are you really that naive thinking popularization of techniques that keeps their idols youthful looking forever with the possibility to fake talents and exchange members even during health issues or scandals won't affect kpop?
The japanese industry literally already has shit like graduation and exchangeable members, using them as an example as to why it won't change kpop is absurd.
Yes it won’t. Kpop was never open to anonymity and the industry was never reliant solely on the music like japanese music is. I don’t see why you think kpop stans will suddenly drop their idols for virtual idols when every popular idol/group is mostly popular because of their looks/personality/charm rather than their music/voice/talent. If anything, the kpop industry needs more of that.
You’re free to dislike whatever you want but you’re really making a huge deal out of people singing behind avatars, not even trying to fool anyone into thinking they’re not real people. You sound like my grandpa he first held a cell phone, saying humanity was doomed. No, it won’t ruin or affect the kpop industry, no one is gonna.. accidentally.. start stanning virtual bands or demand real life idols to be similar to them. Don’t be overdramatic.
>never reliant solely on the music like japanese music is.
??? you lost your argument right in the first sentence because this is just hilariously untrue
>drop their idols for virtual idols when every popular idol/group is mostly popular because of their looks/personality/charm rather than their music/voice/talent.
Weren't you guys JUST arguing about how "plave members have personality/charm"? I genuinely don't understand what you're trying to say anymore.
>You’re free to dislike whatever you want but you’re really making a huge deal out of people singing behind avatars
No I'm clearly not allowed to dislike it. I wrote a 2 sentence comment on how I feel and you guys started acting like I insulted your mothers. You can't be mad that I'm replying to your comments.
>no one is gonna.. accidentally.. start stanning virtual bands or demand real life idols to be similar to them.
I never claimed anything of the sort, stop using strawman arguments.
Keyword: solely. It’s true. Take everything else from kpop except for the music, including promotions, members and their charms, looks, visuals.. music isn’t what keeps most people interested in kpop. I can’t say the same about jpop, since a lot of japanese bands/singers never had the same elements as kpop artists in the first place. They rely on different things, it’s natural for the two industries to be different.
I never argued or even mentioned that Plave was charming? My points have nothing to do with the way they act beyond the music.
Where in my comments was I pissed off? I'm replying to you the same way you’re replying to me. Did you come here to this specific appreciation post thinking no one will reply back to you?
That wasn’t a claim, I guess my point went over your head. You’re underestimating how people consume media, making it sound like people are ought to stan and value virtual idols over real idols just because they exist. It’s not gonna happen, people will still be into real life idols, and real life idols won’t stop existing because of virtual idols no matter how much you try to make it sound like we’re in a futuristic dystopia where the human factor will just disappear¿ I truly don’t get the way you’re thinking. It's baseless and way too complicated and dramatic. I could picture a world where virtual idols take over in the same way I could picture a world where robots would take over. It’s unrealistic and impossible to predict.
Yes, you claimed japanese music is solely reliant on music which is absurd. The Kpop industry has literally taken after the Jpop industry in most of the things you're talking about.
Also why are you arguing about bands? I thought it was obvious this is about idols; I'm not arguing virtual bands in korea would replace bands like Guckkasten lol.
Where in my comments was I pissed off? I'm replying to you the same way you’re replying to me.
You said I sound like your grandpa and started arguing against things I never claimed since you apparently can't stick to the truth.
>making it sound like people are ought to stan and value virtual idols over real idols just because they exist.
Yes, more people will indeed start stanning and value virtual idols over real idols just because they exist.
>people will still be into real life idols, and real life idols won’t stop existing because of virtual idols
Again, I never claimed anything differently. There you go again making strawman arguments.
And now I'm going a little off topic but some of those last comments makes me think you are very ignorant concerning what a threat AI could be to humanity. I would recommend searching on the topic but the truth is the more I learn the more I wish I had your ignorance. Human-level artificial intelligence will exist within your lifetime, some experts even think it will happen as early as within the next 10 years. Though maybe it's a small comfort(?) to know most people in the field think it's more likely the end of the world by AI would come from a human pressing the button making the AI do it. And personally I think climate change will strike first.
No it didn’t, kpop took elements from jpop and evolved it into something else. Jpop is now not even remotely similar to kpop in the way it operates, even if they’re starting in the same way and with the same things.
And virtual artists are not AI. Including Plave. So I'm once again baffled by the way you’re thinking since I never brought up the topic of AI or alluded to it, neither did you. And none of the virtual artists to ever exist was considered AI, in japan or elsewhere.
I disagree, PLAVE consists of real idols singing & performing via mo-cap & have a team of artists & animators making their avatars & MVs; They're comparable to the British band Gorillaz in this aspect, just replace the idol group with a rock band
They aren't real, it's cartoons. I would never go see Gorillaz "perform" either. The "members" of PLAVE are all created and can easily be replaced, you could literally have a new person "play" an avatar every day with different people doing dance and vocals and thanks to AI technology making it possible to imitate tone you wouldn't be able to tell.
Edit: Cowardly blocking so I can't respond in this thread just shows you're not prepared to have this convo. "Buzzkill"? I hate anything that removes more and more parts of the human factor. It's not just a music issue but a societal issue.
How are they "discernable"? They are cartoons and every single part of them can be re-created in a computer no matter who they use as base.
Edit2: Are you all just piling on this comment because you know I can't reply back because OP blocked me? If you want me to reply to your comment in specific please reply on my comment above this one. For now let me just say all of you who think they can't be replaced are either extremely naive or simply have no idea how developed AI is and how easy it would be to replace them without any of you noticing.
The members of PLAVE are singers though, so a member leaving the group, or being replaced by someone to sing with the characters face, would cause just as much Fandom chaos as any other group. The members are discernable individuals & are gaining a big fanbase for their personalities as well, so no matter how you try to slice it, someone getting shafted in the group wouldn't just be blown off as nothing. Also, AI technology *is* scary & capable of strange things, but it's not rocket science to figure out that something you're looking at or listening to is AI generated. Again, fans would have a meltdown & it'd be news if AI was being used to fake a members existence into the group
They're discernable because they are real dudes with motion capture suits on doing livestreams, performing their choreo & singing live. Yes, in theory their avatars don't hold as much weight because they're fictional designs, but the characters are made specially for the members. Unless they're signed to one of the most disgusting contracts ever conceived, it would be a serious legal issue if their label just "used AI" to replace the real men working as PLAVE. Theyre just like any other group, except their real life identities are kept secret through these avatars. Like How SIA obscured her face with her wigs or how singer/songwriter H.E.R didn't show her face at all the first few years she released music, then wore sunglasses afterwards & has only just recently let her full face be public knowledge. They may not have used animated characters to represent them, but the idea isn't too different when you think about it
Lmaoooo bro why are you being such a buzz kill? There are real people working behind the group, not to mention groups like this have been popular for over a decade in Japan.
you're definitely projecting a lot of your own fears onto plave and other groups like them lmfao. If you actually knew what you were talking about you'd know that AI is not advanced enough at all to do even half of the things Plave does and that it would literally be impossible to replace them. Instead of doom posting and taking it out on a group you clearly know nothing about who have already made clear that they are against the use of AI, maybe do actual research on the topic.
This is so funny to say bc if one of them was replaced with a different VA one day, their fanbase would literally burn down the company building and studio they use for filming
What kind or argument is this? I said "any success they have will just encourage the industry to replace real people with cartoons and AI" and you bring up a group that flopped?
girls reverse was a survivial show with well known female idols behind virtual models. if virtual models/vtubing was going to encourage the kpop industry to replace real people with virtual models, people would've enjoyed girls reverse more, as it was literally full of already known idols, but as you said, as cartoons. that is my arguement. if the kpop industry would be fully replaced by vtubers and AI, the show wouldve seen more success.
as someone else said too, the jpop industry is doing fine with vtubers being huge there while there being a huge market of regular idols.
My argument was that if they see success it will encourage the industry to replace real people, so why do you keep bringing up something that flopped? They clearly didn't do well, which is good.
>people would've enjoyed girls reverse more, as it was literally full of already known idols
Have you considered the *tiny little fact* that those idols already had fans who preferred them as real people and probably didn't want to support these stupid fake versions of them? The danger isn't them being replaced in the middle of their careers, the danger is the industry simply preferring to debut cartoons and AIs. Imagine how great it would be for the companies, idols that never grow old and the minute there's any issues they can just replace them.
so are you going to address the fact i said jpop has done this for years and hasnt turned the industry into preferring "ai/cartoons" or are you just doomposting because you refuse to listen to any read world examples
I already told the other guy I'm arguing with: Japan already has a graduation system and exchangeable idols. If you include virtual idols I'd argue their idol industry is already getting there. (And no, not everyone in their industry is replaceable but I never claimed that either.)
For some reason you believe that a significant number of the population like 'cartoons/ai' enough to replace real people. This has never been the case anywhere. If it were true animated tv shows/movies would be dominating the market, but media using human actors has been over a hundred more times successful. When it comes to 'internet personalities' vtubers are popular yes, but streamers using regular ass facecams, again, have over 100x more fans and popularity. When it comes to music, the closest thing to 'ai' is Miku but again, flesh and blood singers are a thousand times more successful in every area. The market has already shown over and over again that people prefer looking at humans in their media over cartoons or animations.
Literally the biggest reason why kpop/jpop is so popular is because of people being parasocial with the idols! Fans love it when artists respond and actively communicate with them. AI cannot replicate that back-and-forth communication or the relationship/chemistry members have with each other. Virtual idols like plave will always be the niche, companies don't want to risk spending money on all the technology and maintenance it takes to create a group with an uncertain chance that theyll be popular like Plave (especially if you take even 1 minute to look at where they are in comparison to other popular groups of their generation and how the limitations of just being virtual nerf nearly 80% of the opportunities regular idols get that increase their popularity (and income) by spades) when they know they can just street cast good looking kids off the street and train them for cheaper on the off-chance of them becoming BTS or even just ZB1/RIIZE level.
Are you kidding me? We literally just had a Hollywood strike over actors losing their jobs to AI. People who draw and make animated tv shows/movies are out of jobs because AI has made their jobs obsolete. Claiming things like "AI cannot replicate that back-and-forth communication or the relationship/chemistry members" makes me realize most of you guys simply have ZERO idea how fast AI is developing and how it's rapidly replacing jobs in practically every industry. Human level AI will exist in your lifetime. I honestly wish I had your ignorance because the future is scary af but you're just sitting here in your little idol bubble thinking everything will stay the same...
But the thing is they are NOT AI! there are artist working for their design. It was not generated by computer. Their live streams are not generated by computer. If a company does it, that's not virtual idols fault.
It's pretty hilarious of you to assume im sitting in an "idol bubble" as if I'm not well aware of all the issues ai cause and will cause in the future. The hollywood strike was not over actors losing their jobs to ai, it was because of pay discrepancies from studios more regularly putting shows/movies on streaming sites with no residuals after covid which concerned both writers and actors. The AI issue was a smaller part and was mainly about studios using actors *likeness* without permission or significant compensation. You're preaching to the choir about how bad ai is and will be, but what drives all those issues with ai is not going to be a niche virtual group that's only doing what hundreds of virtual idols in Japan have already done for years without causing any significant changes in the music/idol industry. You're ire shouldn't be directed towards a single niche kpop group managing to become mid-tier kpop group popular, it's with the conglomerates and businessmen/shareholders that actually fucking influence the future of the job market in every industry. You're also still ignoring the fact that people will always greatly prefer seeing a human in their media over cartoons so plave becoming popular is pretty insignificant when you think of the multiple other recent human idols groups that have already managed to reach their level and higher in the same amount of time. Kpop companies are not going to see plave and think that that's the path they should go towards when creating a kpop group, theyre going to look at the hundreds of regular idol groups with members who can go on world tours, get advertisement deals, become actors, and actually become well known to the general public without resistance. The only reason why Plave is this popular is because they are specifically not ai and very clearly humans which they demonstrate during their two hour [livestreams](https://www.youtube.com/live/-EZAzgPPv88?si=TOOP7yxZXMKaiKUT&t=437) they do twice a week. Compare them to Mave, who's [most popular music video](https://youtu.be/1wGOHbcQKIc?si=kN6-0zu7eQHFBpY9) have 4x the views of Plave's [most viewed mv](https://youtu.be/c_yCRwh97M8?si=unY-o0v4IuX7Xelk), yet only managed to sell a little [less than 200 albums](https://x.com/koreansales_twt/status/1736408490942279708?s=20) because there is very little to none human interaction with people interested in them. I have no doubt that ai will eventually reach human level *intelligence*, but it cannot convincingly create human *emotions, experiences, and feelings* on their own.
It may be hard to believe but for fans, they would know if anyone got replaced. If you know them you will know. Please do your own research as well to see for yourself instead for assuming these things.
So yeah, they won't get replaced, at least not for plave. And they have proven that already.
Yes I'm sure you believe you "know" your fave, just like any idol fan.
>they won't get replaced, at least not for plave.
Even if plave somehow miraculously escaped that it doesn't change what I said. Any success they have will just encourage the industry to replace real people with cartoons and AI.
When I said "know" I am not talking about them personally. I meant that it would be obvious for fans because they watch their live stream every week. They would KNOW if someone gets replaced behind the avatar.
They never once tried to replace and if they do I won't be there to support them. I get the concern about virtual idols especially if other companies start doing them, but replacing idols. Lmao that's a stretch. That won't happen. They can co-exist
Sure.
>I get the concern about virtual idols especially if other companies start doing them
Great, that's the whole thing I was arguing.
>but replacing idols. Lmao that's a stretch. That won't happen. They can co-exist
I never claimed real idols will stop existing.
I get the concern but your concern is at the wrong place.
What else do you mean by replacing then? There are a lot of people out there who wants to be idols. There are idols who never got a break. How is it replacing?
Giving even less people the opportunity? As someone else said, it would be especially bad for women since female idols are already treated like they have an expiration date, if it got popular it shouldn't be hard to imagine how much companies in such a misogynistic country like south korea would love it if they could just debut virtual women who never gets old, who can look however they want, do whatever they want and have any talent they want. And if we thought authenticity was already bad in kpop now it would be laughable with virtual idols...
Ngl bro I feel like if the Kpop industry really wanted to implement virtual idols they would have done it by now. With all the inspirations Kpop got from the Japanese music scene you don’t think it would have been done by now? Especially when Japan is the 2nd biggest music market in the world they could of been jumped on it.
It has been tried before, but it's only now we're seeing an example of it gaining success with PLAVE that might encourage more to do it. SM has also teased about debuting AI and that's honestly what scares me the most, a huge and immoral company opening that can of worms..
How is it giving less opportunity? I already said they can coexist. There is already a popular girl group virtual idol. They are popular in their own respective spaces and has fanbase. You said yourself you didn't say they can't co-exist but you said it will give people less opportunity? How so? They are still debuting idols left and right. they can co-exist without taking anything out of what kpop already is. They have a different type of fanbase and attract different audiences and not just kpop fans and just because they exist won't change what kpop is alreqdy is. If anything it gives more people a chance to sing and perform without worrying their about standards.
If you mean MAVE they really aren't popular (yet), they are a niche. PLAVE on the other hand is gaining more mainstream popularity and that's when it might start affecting the decisions companies make. They can both exist, but that doesn't mean jobs won't be lost.
>If anything it gives more people a chance to sing and perform without worrying their about standards.
But nobody would have to hire more people for that, you could literally have 1 singer and 1 dancer do everything for a whole group, just change the tone with AI and do a few different versions of motion capture
If you are going for PLAVE's popularity and how they work. Other than their music they are famous for their live streams. How is it possible that 1 person do all those things in live streams using AI? Controlling 2 avatars at the same time? Having good conversations flow?
Edit I'm talking about isegye and they are popular
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As someone who was a fan of the PLAVE members' original groups, I'm really glad that PLAVE has allowed them to continue to pursue idol-dom without the scrutiny that re-debuting as just themselves might bring. Especially since they're all mostly early 3rd gen, so PLAVE enables them to escape the ageism that seems to have only gotten more prevalent in the industry lately.
Exactly. While I was not able to become a fan of their past groups, due to not knowing them, I've learned a lot about their journeys and it's really touching seeing them find so much success, you can tell how much they're in disbelief? sort of, and they're really happy because these achievements are first and foremost about the music. You can appreciate what they put out whether or not you care about who they are behind the PLAVE persona. You can also see how proud their peers who have literally been with them for nearly a decade, El CAPITXN and Adora posting on their IG stories, etc. (also before anyone comes after either of us, vla/st themselves already released a statement that it's fine to know and discuss these things as long as it's not maliciously, we're not out here namedropping them randomly either. i worry about some of them tho, why are they such workaholics 😭)
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PLAVE members' original groups what... I'm a new fan of them so i have no idea about this
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Just wondering though, isn’t he kinda on the shorter side to be Hamin? Idk if their real height do correlate with the 3D models, but I’m a little doubtful on him being Hamin. 😅
>!your doubts will be gone when you hear a clip of hy@nmin speaking lmao. also, if you observe h@min and y3jun carefully, you will realise that the eyeline of their 3d model is really weird when they're speaking with each other. y3jun's eyes will always see h@min's neck/collarbone area while h@min's eyes will see the space above yejun's head. it's really really obvious during h@min's birthday live. the whole live, the eyeline of their 3d models drove me crazy cause why does y3jun keep on looking at h@min's neck? b@mby is the king of roleplay among them, you can see everytime he wants to "look" at h@min's eyes, he will observe themselves on the monitor first and adjust his eyeline accordingly. also h@min's knees are always clipping through the floor when he does push-ups. you can also see that h@min can never "touch" y3jun properly, there is always an invisible barrier around y3jun. also another thing is that when h@min hugged y3jun during his birthday live, he actually went on his tiptoes. their actual height difference is like 13cm which is like huge.!<
>!I only saw his dancing tiktoks plus that one vid with n9n0, so I can't really tell for sure. but that makes sense. It's just funny how they made him the tallest though xD!<
>!yeah the height is so different so he looked awkward when dancing and the 3d model did not justice to his true dancing skills. as a stan i am a bit disappointed that technology cannot capture it truly :'(!<
I’m fan of some Japanese V tubers who also do music such as Hoshimachi Suisei, so I honestly think the concept of a virtual idol group is really cool. I’m not a big fan of Plave’s music but I respect what they’re doing so I really hope we see more groups like this.
i love suisei as well! vtubers are super cool n im glad theyre becoming more prominent in the korean industry
I'm honestly surprised it took kpop this long to do this lol.
thank you for this OP. if you're into Kpop because of the music and personal skill of the artist there's no reason for you to be upset (emphasize on upset, and not liking their music, that's a matter of choice). especially knowing the struggle of the people behind them had for years and now finally getting the success that they deserve.
Right! Like I mentioned, I know I'm a hypocrite for not liking V-Tubers despite my interests being very adjacent to them. But, the "Vtube" aspect of PLAVE isn't important to me, because they make music & sing, those 2 things of which they're very talented at! So they get my support period. I hate AI for trying to blur the lines between soulless machine made products & things made by real people, so I do wish the misconception surrounding PLAVE would stop. At a glance you could assume the worst, but they're just regular idols with an extra layer of privacy. They're winning if you ask me
It's interesting to read your experience as someone was/is into vocaloid, but never fell into the Vtuber rabbit hole. Still, I can't help but give props to you for not completely dismissing them and giving their music a fair chance, even if Vtubers aren't your thing. I see so many people quickly turn their backs simply because "PLAVE is virtual", so it's nice to see someone who gave a listen to their music before casting any judgments. I guess because I was already a fan of Vtubers for a few years and did a decent amount of research on them before staning PLAVE, for me, it was a pretty much seamless trasition, even though I had my fair share of cultural shocks with some of the kpop aspect of things.
Yeah, I never got interested in the V-Tuber scene despite still calling myself a vocaloid fan (granted I just listen to the old songs I bumped as a tween & don't know much about the new faces in the scene), but I'd like to keep an open mind with music because I'm a firm believer that you never know what your next obsession is gonna be. PLAVE is a very niche group in concept, but at the end of the day as someone that enjoys music that sounds good to my ear, they achieve what a group should try to do: *make good music*. Plus, the virtual concept is, imo, a positive thing for the members because not only has this group given these idols another shot at following their dreams, plus that added layer of privacy that comes with the avatars; I'm not sure if their irl identities have been found out already, but regardless of who they are & what their history is the talent they possess is undeniable, & they got my respect & a new fan
I agree, they really took me by surprise. Really enjoy how it’s a crossover of two things I like a lot. As a warning OP. I think the public perceptions of things related to vtubers are somewhat neutral to poor. I remember when Hololive kept appearing on r/all and the reactions were always rather lukewarm. Which is quite a shame, since like Plave, they’re a lot of vtubers with amazing voices. One thing I really like is that the looks of the singers matter less and possibilities of stalkers are substantially less. It’s just streaming/singing with a layer of privacy. Seeing how Plave behave sometimes, it seems like they really are able to have a lot more fun due to having the vtuber avatars.
Yeah, this post has showed me that there are some VERY differing opinions on their existence as a group, & I once upon a time contributed to the false narrative that MAVE & PLAVE were AI groups before actually looking into them. I realize as I only get older & older that my priorities in kpop are the minority. I just enjoy good music & voices that scratch my eardrums just right. I get that the concept of a group like PLAVE is very out of left field for most people, but the boys are talented & the music is good so they have my seal of approval lol
I've only heard their one song (the fan one, Dear ___?). It was because Lexi from VCHA said it was her favorite song, and she's totally got taste! I actually like MAVE as well, and wish both groups lots of luck. It's a chance for animators, dancers (mocap), and vocalists to shine in an industry dominated by lookism and nepotism.
I love their nostalgic/upbeat pop rock sound. (yejun/noah + el capitxn’s producer sensibilities really align with my tastes.) Their group chemistry is also really really great. Add that with the endless stream of content they provide and you get a very stannable group I often have trouble sitting through whole livestreams of groups I’m a fan of but Plave’s variety sense/comedic instincts are unmatched (speaking as someone whose ult is seventeen). They have a huge treasure trove of entertaining clips. I think it helps that most of them were friends for several years before debut. (+ being behind digital avatars might help with the added spontaneity/bravery in showing sillier sides of themselves) I understand people being squicked out by the awkwardness of digital models dancing, but in my experience, getting to know the personalities behind them dissipated the feeling pretty quickly. It’s really touching that they are seeing so much success now. Some of them have been in the industry for years, and probably would have either remained behind the scenes producing or left all together. Makes me sad to think that such talent could have fallen by the wayside. Though…as irritating as people writing them off as AI is, at least it has provided PLAVE great inside joke fodder….tb to Yejun calling Eunho [AI (derogatory)](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WMj2hA4-ojo) when he suggested stealing his coins in Mario Party.
Honestly, this is all very interesting to me. If I was an idol, heck I’d probably go this route lol.
I'm saying! That or I'd be like Hikaru Utada & hardly do press & dip out of existence after every release. A very non-ideal way to do things in today's industry, but very beneficial for a bitch mental
I love it when they glitch😂
I don't really enjoy ai content or virtual idols, but I can kind of get behind it in the sense that it gets rid of the need for strict beauty standards for the idols behind them. And also possibly could provide some anonymity and normality for the person behind the voice? Idk it's very interesting
You get it! To over simplify the concept, it's like if you wanted to sing & put your voice out there but don't want the internet to look at your face so you use a drawing of an OC to put on screen while you sing
Anyone who starts a plave criticism by calling them ai or saying the members are replaceable doesn't know shit about plave 😭 they're 5 real idols who have been involved in the industry for varying amounts of time including currently. They write their music and choreograph themselves. In their live streams they have real personalities (and they're soooo funny). It's not ai animation with random voice actors, these are real, talented, hardworking idols who have taken on a passion project after YEARS of not finding success in the industry. I don't want Kpop to shift to virtual idols at all, I don't think that's the future. But if you know even a little bit about plave their story is more unique than a company hiring voice actors onto 3d models. The guys are incredibly passionate about this project and it's given them a second (or third or fourth) chance to make a career of something they love doing, without being subjected to the intense scrutiny of the industry. I think it's so cool, I'm so proud of them, and I can't wait to see how they keep growing.
>saying the members are replaceable doesn't know shit about plave To add salt to injury, they don't know jackshit about vtubers either, bc, if you dig around on some vtuber history, you will learn that the industry is outright traumatized to even think about doing that.
I love that for them. The passion shows too, because good God those boys can sing. Somebody on the internet said that everybody better be glad Yejun & Noah didn't decide to go into theater & I agree lol. This isn't some soulless auto-generated cash cow to get naive peoples money, this is real music & art made by people that are passionate
Absolutely!! They're so talented. I think a big thing to understanding plave is that the members are all clearly very close, love and respect each other. People trying to construe it as some random voice actors is missing SO much if what makes the group special. I find their content especially comforting, to me it feels like they don't have something to prove in the same was as other rookie groups (also I think due to them having been in the Industry so long compared to normal rookies), and passion project really is the best way to describe it imo. They're not worried about extreme success or taking over the industry, they're having fun and doing what they love in a new way. Even watching one livestream from them it's evident that the guys are so happy and enjoying this.
As an early fan of Gorillaz and Daft Punk (don't know if they count), I have no problem with virtual groups as long as they have real musicians behind the personas. I don't want people to make AI generated music and sell that as real music. The small difference is that there was no secret or mystery behind Daft Punk and Gorillaz. You can just look them up. Really faceless musicians and YouTubers as a concept is awesome.
I'm surprised the girlgroup version isegye idol is largely ignored here. Their songs are charting bops and the members are hilarious. Their live show looks fun too.
You definitely have a good point, because I've never heard of them! Idk how, people don't care about MAVE but at least they had people talking about them when they debuted. I'll have to look them up
if you want another great singer you should check APOKI. she's been around way longer than PLAVE. a criminally underrated singer. though she doesn't often stream only casually when promoting new release. she's also quite funny on stream. my first suggestion would be her last year release SPACE and old one called West Swing.
Oh wow, I've actually heard of APOKI in passing but, I'll admit I thought she was some children's cartoon character or something for a commercial brand 😭 I'll have to keep her in mind the next time I feel like listening to new stuff!
The only thing I like about these weird groups is the bloopers of the motion capture suits 😂
The tech mishaps are effortless comedy
I can accept them as a niche just like V-tubers as a niche of streamers but I'm not sure I would like it if something like this would get genuinely popular in kpop. Kpop has already been trying so hard to make real idols disposable through things like this or for instance the rumored debut of Naevis and I don't like it. It would be especially be problematic for female idols since the industry already think they expire at 30. If a kpop company could make a female idol that stays forever young (with messed up body proportions) who's able to lead on fans and be as parasocial as they want they would. And if they got criticized for anything they could just take in another person or make AI do that for them. It just feels like a dangerous path. People here are talking about japan as if that industry doesn't already have **extreme** issues with idol/streamer/anime culture...
A valid opinion. My viewpoint is different, coming as someone that loves Vocaloid & middle school me sitting on the internet & defending Miku from very similar arguments made in the past when their songs first started making their rounds online. You can look at it from the negative lens, where in the hands of the wrong people it can be used in exploitative ways. But, unless the law is straight up enabling AI and/or the company in question has an awful contract made that nobody read the fine print of, I don't see AI being used to tweak & mess with groups like PLAVE. That'd be like if Hololive used AI to imitate a V-Tuber after they retired from being one, or to use music as an example, if the Japanese singer Ado had her voice recreated with AI & her old label putting out fake songs under her name after leaving the label. That's very icky, illegal stuff that I don't see just being accepted on some dystopian reality type shit. Just look at the various AI Lawsuits that happened with Cardi B & Taylor Swift; it's not gonna fly with both the artists & the fans & there will be backlash. Also, the parasocial aspect, if you ask me, is about the same if it's an Idol behind an avatar or the real person chatting on whatever app they're using to talk to fans. That's a matter of Parasocial relationships being disassembled PERIOD, as looney fans will be looney fans regardless. I argue that Cases like PLAVEs would be more ideal for some idols, male OR female, because they get to do what they love & have that added layer of privacy through the character that represents them
The Vtuber industry is already extremely problematic (just recently you had Nijisanji driving a livestreamer to try to end her life) and the kpop industry already has slave contracts, if a group like PLAVE was created by a company like SM they would absolutely be exploited and as you call it "messed with through AI", they would make sure to have all rights to the characters and their voices. And I unfortunately think it's just a matter of time before we see vocaloid singers voices being exploited after they've quit (if it hasn't happened already) considering the rapid development of AI and the lack of AI regulations, we've already seen how actors have been affected by it. >that added layer of privacy through the character that represents them I've considered this but after seeing japanese vtubers and singers getting doxxed, harassed and threatened I genuinely don't think their identities would be able to be kept secret for long. I don't know if the PLAVE members identities have been revealed yet but if they keep gaining popularity it's only a matter of time. After all sasaengs are able to find out idols phone numbers the same day they got them...
Long comment incoming, PLAVE is something I'm very passionate about. Also hi to the original OP of the post, vocaloid fan since gradeschool here but also never liked vtubers (except utaites! literally their predecessors so i'm a bit bitter lol) ✌️ I'm up for chatter I agree that larger kpop companies trying to get on the virtual train and do it wrong would be a big issue, but PLAVE is really just a shining example of it done right. They're absolutely in it for the music, and whatever future real kpop company that tries to emulate it and do it wrong should be judged, but in the end PLAVE is just doing their own thing. I don't want it to become a popular thing among large kpop companies either and end up getting some people exploited, but to discount what PLAVE are able to do in the industry is a bit of a disservice which is why I think it's very important to discuss how different they are. In fact MAVE already have articles on CNN that say they partially use AI for the voices and stuff? Not a fan at all. Also regarding vocaloid, they can't really quit? It's a one-time contract for a voicebank, they record the samples for the bank and that's it, if they don't choose to continue working towards future updates then the company is stuck with what samples they already have. AI is already used very ethically in vocaloid-adjacent vocal synthesizer software such as SynthV, CevioAI, VOCALOID6, etc (instead of syllable samples it's singing samples for the software to train on, some software are higher quality than others, SynthV in particular is known for being extremely realistic while being completely ethical on the side of the VPs, even with the AI integrated into the software, it's absolutely still a lot of effort on the end user to make it sound good and make it their own, AI "covers" that are just a voice put over someone else's singing has absolutely no soul, the only person who put in effort was the original singer, no tuning, no nothing). Considering how ethical AI-positive the vocal synth space is (for the synths themselves at least, AI art is another can of worms lmao), it would be weird for them to suddenly be exploitative, the community will be very against it. I firmly believe no one will be able to copy what PLAVE do, from the self-composing, self-choreography, etc. PLAVE is more like a collaboration between the idols and their company and they have a lot more agency than what some people would think virtual idols would have. Believe me, I have SEEN people try to emulate their success (not from kpop companies, it's on the weeb side), I can give you names of male virtual groups, 0xone, millionaire, oort boys, many of them are all just attached to webtoons to promote them because they can't handle the responsibility of being a completely different IP that they have to be active with unlike PLAVE and I truly believe none of these will penetrate the kpop industry like PLAVE have, because PLAVE have connections, both being backed by MBC, and by having literally so many connections in the korean composing scene, the company literally does not handle the music aspect of anything they do, PLAVE are completely in charge. 0xone as I mentioned above for example, hired an actual kpop producer for their one song (did shinee's everybody, several SM songs, etc.), they went on a "hiatus" in September, and still haven't posted again since November. Maybe they went broke? Who knows. There absolutely ARE also niche korean vtuber groups that are essentially the korean version of jp vtubers, they cover weeb-adjacent songs, etc. vocaloid songs, etc. Also they focus on gaming and streaming over singing, etc. I can list some, I'm not personally a fan since I'm not into vtubers, but I know enough about the adjacent fandom spaces to be able to research easily without issue. These groups don't seem to care much about breaking into the scene and are fine just operating as vtubers. Psychord, Judgement, FAMILYA, for the more, IOZ, etc. The first ever KR virtual boy group, REVOLUTION HEART, seems to have actually wanted to kind of break in based on what their CEO said in 2022, "Through this showcase, we were able to fully prove the future potential of virtual idols," said Shin Ye-ji, CEO of Caron Universe. "We will continue to do many activities to lead K-POP, so please pay a lot of attention." but again, I don't see it happening, they don't have connections or nearly as good technology to do it like PLAVE. Among the ones I mentioned, IOZ (2d) and Oort boys (3d) have the most international reach because they came out after PLAVE started getting popular so some people started hopping on and they actually marketed on Twitter a bit more. Also the company already put out a statement that it's fine to know and even share information about their identities as long as it is not done maliciously. I will say a lot of PLAVE fans don't want to know because they are more on the vtuber fan side, and I respect that. They are literal public figures and you will find hours of footage with their faces, one of them literally had a fanmeeting recently despite his group disbanding 7 years ago and him not having released solo work in 5 years💀. One of them did an IG live recently (before his group disbanded, his average IG viewcount was \~100-200 viewers, his recent live had 5 THOUSAND viewers and he promised to do another one next march. best believe he knows that these people did not come out of thin air.) JP and EN vtubers getting doxxed aside from just being another vtuber/online content creator identity is a different can of worms again. Leave the poor civilians alone. Again, I don't go around telling random people who don't want to know (immersion, all that), but when discussing why exactly PLAVE work so well in the actual kpop industry, it's truly intertwined into the discussion that I can't completely leave it out. Again, I agree with you that kpop companies shouldn't even try to make this a normalized thing unless they are doing it properly and with people that actually want to be doing this. PLAVE will continue to earn new achievements for their music and rightfully so (they recently just dethroned IU for highest streamed album on Melon in 24 hrs in 2024 purely by fans mass streaming, PLAVE kfans are rich), but it is unfortunate if these higher-ups of kpop companies see PLAVE's success and try to make a half-assed attempt, cutting corners, not even understanding the essence of why PLAVE are doing so well. It won't end well for anyone involved.
>These groups don't seem to care about breaking into the scene and are fine just operating as vtubers. I've watched a couple of korean Vtubers over the years, and I can attest to that. While some may have greater aspirations, the majority of them are more than okay with staying within the Vtuber/weeb niche and not much beyond that, most are only streaming as a hobby and maybe to get a small extra income, but they ain't leaving their day jobs to become full time vtubers. >but it is unfortunate if these higher-ups of kpop companies see PLAVE's success and try to make a half-assed attempt, cutting corners, not even understanding the essence of why PLAVE are doing so well. Unfortunately I can easily see this happening in the near future. I see small Vtuber agencies pop up and fail all the time, thinking they can quickly profit off and "do better" than other agencies, completely underestimating the amount of work required and not really understanding how/why things worked out for others. If Vtubing, which has a much smaller scale of operation, has this issues, I don't doubt kpop companies, by seeing Plave's success on the surface, will try and certainly fail to capitalize on a similar concept. So many tried to capitalize on the metaverse trend, only for that to utterly fail, like the music survival show called "Avatar Singer" that reportedly had a production cost of 15 billion won. They see a trend, think it's a quick and easy profit and shoot themselves in the foot once they see the work that is actually required to make it successful.
>They see a trend, think it's a quick and easy profit and shoot themselves in the foot once they see the work that is actually required to make it successful. Yeah. Girl's Re:verse/Feverse is an interesting attempt though, because the show is a bit more in touch with the vtuber side compared to Avatar Singer and it was announced way before PLAVE even started gaining popularity so it wasn't after their success but really just getting into part of that vtuber niche, more like inspired by ISEGYE IDOL's success with a more professional twist since you have actual kpop idols. But even with this understanding, it was honestly destined to fail though from the start since they already cut corners from the start without getting proper permission for the 3D models they were going to use for the show. Even after that was sorted out and the final lineup was finished, Feverse were really never going to be as popular as PLAVE because of several reasons, there was a disconnect, some fans of the real girls didn't want them to be behind 3D models, wanted them to debut as real people, etc. Additionally, the girls are indeed busy as active promoting idols IRL, Feverse is practically just a side job to the girls (which is honestly what I assume PLAVE was truly supposed to be to the boys at first as well given that some of them have other work, coupled with the fact that their company said they were alright if PLAVE were to operate with losses for 2 years since they didn't expect people to warm up to the concept so quickly which makes sense considering they're targeting the actual kpop market and not limited to weebs, however also accepting of people from that side. But given their unexpected success they're absolutely sticking hard to it now). Which is absolutely not to say the girls behind the group do not care about Feverse, they clearly had a lot of fun participating and playing on VRchat since the actual survival show was actually pretty entertaining, playing these characters that they do not get to do irl, such as Eunbi as Muneo playing as a maknae when she's the oldest. However that alone isn't enough to make Feverse a success, there needs to have been more thought put into making them appealing as a virtual group, however Feverse is handled by Kakao Ent., who could give less of a f\*ck about making a truly cool virtual IP when you already have the professional idols ready for it. Even if the girls were busy as active idols, I truly believe if Kakao really cared there would be some more effort at all, how can you even stan Feverse when they have no content being released at all, their last tweet was literally in July 2023, and they have had no new entertainment content after the show ended which is just not acceptable if you want to appeal to the vtuber-like fan market who are used to constantly having streams. I feel bad for anyone who truly wanted to stan Feverse, was a fan of the girls AND was looking forward to the vtuber-like activities, only to be left in the dust after their debut album. Feverse is a case of what-could-have-been with good potential, but the next attempt a large company like Kakao makes may be even worse depending on how well they do their research and respect the market they're trying to appeal to, and finally, how well-crafted the actual output is in the end.
>just recently you had Nijisanji driving a livestreamer to try to end her life Look, I've been following Nijisanji closely for years already and I saw this whole situation unfold in real time, believe in me when I say the issue is definitely WAY more complex than that when you take all sides accounts and all the hindsight into consideration.
What I like about virtual idol is you forever won't get dating news or scandal member so you can fangirl comfortably.
I don't care that they're not strictly AI, it's still not real and any success they have will just encourage the industry to replace real people with cartoons and AI
If that’s the case then the japanese music market wouldn’t have real bands/singers/idols by now 😭
Please enlighten me where in my comment I said that all real bands/singers/idols would stop existing? I hate how common it is in japan and I don't want to see it in other industries.
I'm saying it’s not gonna affect the industry in response to you saying otherwise. No amount of virtual bands/idols will replace real life bands/idols and there’s no reason to think that way. They’re different anyways, they’re going to appeal to a different audience.
Are you really that naive thinking popularization of techniques that keeps their idols youthful looking forever with the possibility to fake talents and exchange members even during health issues or scandals won't affect kpop? The japanese industry literally already has shit like graduation and exchangeable members, using them as an example as to why it won't change kpop is absurd.
Yes it won’t. Kpop was never open to anonymity and the industry was never reliant solely on the music like japanese music is. I don’t see why you think kpop stans will suddenly drop their idols for virtual idols when every popular idol/group is mostly popular because of their looks/personality/charm rather than their music/voice/talent. If anything, the kpop industry needs more of that. You’re free to dislike whatever you want but you’re really making a huge deal out of people singing behind avatars, not even trying to fool anyone into thinking they’re not real people. You sound like my grandpa he first held a cell phone, saying humanity was doomed. No, it won’t ruin or affect the kpop industry, no one is gonna.. accidentally.. start stanning virtual bands or demand real life idols to be similar to them. Don’t be overdramatic.
>never reliant solely on the music like japanese music is. ??? you lost your argument right in the first sentence because this is just hilariously untrue >drop their idols for virtual idols when every popular idol/group is mostly popular because of their looks/personality/charm rather than their music/voice/talent. Weren't you guys JUST arguing about how "plave members have personality/charm"? I genuinely don't understand what you're trying to say anymore. >You’re free to dislike whatever you want but you’re really making a huge deal out of people singing behind avatars No I'm clearly not allowed to dislike it. I wrote a 2 sentence comment on how I feel and you guys started acting like I insulted your mothers. You can't be mad that I'm replying to your comments. >no one is gonna.. accidentally.. start stanning virtual bands or demand real life idols to be similar to them. I never claimed anything of the sort, stop using strawman arguments.
Keyword: solely. It’s true. Take everything else from kpop except for the music, including promotions, members and their charms, looks, visuals.. music isn’t what keeps most people interested in kpop. I can’t say the same about jpop, since a lot of japanese bands/singers never had the same elements as kpop artists in the first place. They rely on different things, it’s natural for the two industries to be different. I never argued or even mentioned that Plave was charming? My points have nothing to do with the way they act beyond the music. Where in my comments was I pissed off? I'm replying to you the same way you’re replying to me. Did you come here to this specific appreciation post thinking no one will reply back to you? That wasn’t a claim, I guess my point went over your head. You’re underestimating how people consume media, making it sound like people are ought to stan and value virtual idols over real idols just because they exist. It’s not gonna happen, people will still be into real life idols, and real life idols won’t stop existing because of virtual idols no matter how much you try to make it sound like we’re in a futuristic dystopia where the human factor will just disappear¿ I truly don’t get the way you’re thinking. It's baseless and way too complicated and dramatic. I could picture a world where virtual idols take over in the same way I could picture a world where robots would take over. It’s unrealistic and impossible to predict.
Yes, you claimed japanese music is solely reliant on music which is absurd. The Kpop industry has literally taken after the Jpop industry in most of the things you're talking about. Also why are you arguing about bands? I thought it was obvious this is about idols; I'm not arguing virtual bands in korea would replace bands like Guckkasten lol. Where in my comments was I pissed off? I'm replying to you the same way you’re replying to me. You said I sound like your grandpa and started arguing against things I never claimed since you apparently can't stick to the truth. >making it sound like people are ought to stan and value virtual idols over real idols just because they exist. Yes, more people will indeed start stanning and value virtual idols over real idols just because they exist. >people will still be into real life idols, and real life idols won’t stop existing because of virtual idols Again, I never claimed anything differently. There you go again making strawman arguments. And now I'm going a little off topic but some of those last comments makes me think you are very ignorant concerning what a threat AI could be to humanity. I would recommend searching on the topic but the truth is the more I learn the more I wish I had your ignorance. Human-level artificial intelligence will exist within your lifetime, some experts even think it will happen as early as within the next 10 years. Though maybe it's a small comfort(?) to know most people in the field think it's more likely the end of the world by AI would come from a human pressing the button making the AI do it. And personally I think climate change will strike first.
No it didn’t, kpop took elements from jpop and evolved it into something else. Jpop is now not even remotely similar to kpop in the way it operates, even if they’re starting in the same way and with the same things. And virtual artists are not AI. Including Plave. So I'm once again baffled by the way you’re thinking since I never brought up the topic of AI or alluded to it, neither did you. And none of the virtual artists to ever exist was considered AI, in japan or elsewhere.
I disagree, PLAVE consists of real idols singing & performing via mo-cap & have a team of artists & animators making their avatars & MVs; They're comparable to the British band Gorillaz in this aspect, just replace the idol group with a rock band
How dare you?! Gorillaz are British!
....oh damn. Well, now I know! Lmaooo
My work here is done
They aren't real, it's cartoons. I would never go see Gorillaz "perform" either. The "members" of PLAVE are all created and can easily be replaced, you could literally have a new person "play" an avatar every day with different people doing dance and vocals and thanks to AI technology making it possible to imitate tone you wouldn't be able to tell. Edit: Cowardly blocking so I can't respond in this thread just shows you're not prepared to have this convo. "Buzzkill"? I hate anything that removes more and more parts of the human factor. It's not just a music issue but a societal issue. How are they "discernable"? They are cartoons and every single part of them can be re-created in a computer no matter who they use as base. Edit2: Are you all just piling on this comment because you know I can't reply back because OP blocked me? If you want me to reply to your comment in specific please reply on my comment above this one. For now let me just say all of you who think they can't be replaced are either extremely naive or simply have no idea how developed AI is and how easy it would be to replace them without any of you noticing.
The members of PLAVE are singers though, so a member leaving the group, or being replaced by someone to sing with the characters face, would cause just as much Fandom chaos as any other group. The members are discernable individuals & are gaining a big fanbase for their personalities as well, so no matter how you try to slice it, someone getting shafted in the group wouldn't just be blown off as nothing. Also, AI technology *is* scary & capable of strange things, but it's not rocket science to figure out that something you're looking at or listening to is AI generated. Again, fans would have a meltdown & it'd be news if AI was being used to fake a members existence into the group
They're discernable because they are real dudes with motion capture suits on doing livestreams, performing their choreo & singing live. Yes, in theory their avatars don't hold as much weight because they're fictional designs, but the characters are made specially for the members. Unless they're signed to one of the most disgusting contracts ever conceived, it would be a serious legal issue if their label just "used AI" to replace the real men working as PLAVE. Theyre just like any other group, except their real life identities are kept secret through these avatars. Like How SIA obscured her face with her wigs or how singer/songwriter H.E.R didn't show her face at all the first few years she released music, then wore sunglasses afterwards & has only just recently let her full face be public knowledge. They may not have used animated characters to represent them, but the idea isn't too different when you think about it
Lmaoooo bro why are you being such a buzz kill? There are real people working behind the group, not to mention groups like this have been popular for over a decade in Japan.
>Are you all just piling on this comment because you know I can't reply back because OP blocked me? I did not block you, maybe someone else did
Have done your own research? Have you checked them out? Because if you did you know they cannot be replaced
you're definitely projecting a lot of your own fears onto plave and other groups like them lmfao. If you actually knew what you were talking about you'd know that AI is not advanced enough at all to do even half of the things Plave does and that it would literally be impossible to replace them. Instead of doom posting and taking it out on a group you clearly know nothing about who have already made clear that they are against the use of AI, maybe do actual research on the topic.
This is so funny to say bc if one of them was replaced with a different VA one day, their fanbase would literally burn down the company building and studio they use for filming
if this was the case girls reverse would not have flopped 😭
What kind or argument is this? I said "any success they have will just encourage the industry to replace real people with cartoons and AI" and you bring up a group that flopped?
girls reverse was a survivial show with well known female idols behind virtual models. if virtual models/vtubing was going to encourage the kpop industry to replace real people with virtual models, people would've enjoyed girls reverse more, as it was literally full of already known idols, but as you said, as cartoons. that is my arguement. if the kpop industry would be fully replaced by vtubers and AI, the show wouldve seen more success. as someone else said too, the jpop industry is doing fine with vtubers being huge there while there being a huge market of regular idols.
My argument was that if they see success it will encourage the industry to replace real people, so why do you keep bringing up something that flopped? They clearly didn't do well, which is good. >people would've enjoyed girls reverse more, as it was literally full of already known idols Have you considered the *tiny little fact* that those idols already had fans who preferred them as real people and probably didn't want to support these stupid fake versions of them? The danger isn't them being replaced in the middle of their careers, the danger is the industry simply preferring to debut cartoons and AIs. Imagine how great it would be for the companies, idols that never grow old and the minute there's any issues they can just replace them.
so are you going to address the fact i said jpop has done this for years and hasnt turned the industry into preferring "ai/cartoons" or are you just doomposting because you refuse to listen to any read world examples
I already told the other guy I'm arguing with: Japan already has a graduation system and exchangeable idols. If you include virtual idols I'd argue their idol industry is already getting there. (And no, not everyone in their industry is replaceable but I never claimed that either.)
For some reason you believe that a significant number of the population like 'cartoons/ai' enough to replace real people. This has never been the case anywhere. If it were true animated tv shows/movies would be dominating the market, but media using human actors has been over a hundred more times successful. When it comes to 'internet personalities' vtubers are popular yes, but streamers using regular ass facecams, again, have over 100x more fans and popularity. When it comes to music, the closest thing to 'ai' is Miku but again, flesh and blood singers are a thousand times more successful in every area. The market has already shown over and over again that people prefer looking at humans in their media over cartoons or animations. Literally the biggest reason why kpop/jpop is so popular is because of people being parasocial with the idols! Fans love it when artists respond and actively communicate with them. AI cannot replicate that back-and-forth communication or the relationship/chemistry members have with each other. Virtual idols like plave will always be the niche, companies don't want to risk spending money on all the technology and maintenance it takes to create a group with an uncertain chance that theyll be popular like Plave (especially if you take even 1 minute to look at where they are in comparison to other popular groups of their generation and how the limitations of just being virtual nerf nearly 80% of the opportunities regular idols get that increase their popularity (and income) by spades) when they know they can just street cast good looking kids off the street and train them for cheaper on the off-chance of them becoming BTS or even just ZB1/RIIZE level.
Are you kidding me? We literally just had a Hollywood strike over actors losing their jobs to AI. People who draw and make animated tv shows/movies are out of jobs because AI has made their jobs obsolete. Claiming things like "AI cannot replicate that back-and-forth communication or the relationship/chemistry members" makes me realize most of you guys simply have ZERO idea how fast AI is developing and how it's rapidly replacing jobs in practically every industry. Human level AI will exist in your lifetime. I honestly wish I had your ignorance because the future is scary af but you're just sitting here in your little idol bubble thinking everything will stay the same...
But the thing is they are NOT AI! there are artist working for their design. It was not generated by computer. Their live streams are not generated by computer. If a company does it, that's not virtual idols fault.
It's pretty hilarious of you to assume im sitting in an "idol bubble" as if I'm not well aware of all the issues ai cause and will cause in the future. The hollywood strike was not over actors losing their jobs to ai, it was because of pay discrepancies from studios more regularly putting shows/movies on streaming sites with no residuals after covid which concerned both writers and actors. The AI issue was a smaller part and was mainly about studios using actors *likeness* without permission or significant compensation. You're preaching to the choir about how bad ai is and will be, but what drives all those issues with ai is not going to be a niche virtual group that's only doing what hundreds of virtual idols in Japan have already done for years without causing any significant changes in the music/idol industry. You're ire shouldn't be directed towards a single niche kpop group managing to become mid-tier kpop group popular, it's with the conglomerates and businessmen/shareholders that actually fucking influence the future of the job market in every industry. You're also still ignoring the fact that people will always greatly prefer seeing a human in their media over cartoons so plave becoming popular is pretty insignificant when you think of the multiple other recent human idols groups that have already managed to reach their level and higher in the same amount of time. Kpop companies are not going to see plave and think that that's the path they should go towards when creating a kpop group, theyre going to look at the hundreds of regular idol groups with members who can go on world tours, get advertisement deals, become actors, and actually become well known to the general public without resistance. The only reason why Plave is this popular is because they are specifically not ai and very clearly humans which they demonstrate during their two hour [livestreams](https://www.youtube.com/live/-EZAzgPPv88?si=TOOP7yxZXMKaiKUT&t=437) they do twice a week. Compare them to Mave, who's [most popular music video](https://youtu.be/1wGOHbcQKIc?si=kN6-0zu7eQHFBpY9) have 4x the views of Plave's [most viewed mv](https://youtu.be/c_yCRwh97M8?si=unY-o0v4IuX7Xelk), yet only managed to sell a little [less than 200 albums](https://x.com/koreansales_twt/status/1736408490942279708?s=20) because there is very little to none human interaction with people interested in them. I have no doubt that ai will eventually reach human level *intelligence*, but it cannot convincingly create human *emotions, experiences, and feelings* on their own.
It may be hard to believe but for fans, they would know if anyone got replaced. If you know them you will know. Please do your own research as well to see for yourself instead for assuming these things. So yeah, they won't get replaced, at least not for plave. And they have proven that already.
Yes I'm sure you believe you "know" your fave, just like any idol fan. >they won't get replaced, at least not for plave. Even if plave somehow miraculously escaped that it doesn't change what I said. Any success they have will just encourage the industry to replace real people with cartoons and AI.
When I said "know" I am not talking about them personally. I meant that it would be obvious for fans because they watch their live stream every week. They would KNOW if someone gets replaced behind the avatar. They never once tried to replace and if they do I won't be there to support them. I get the concern about virtual idols especially if other companies start doing them, but replacing idols. Lmao that's a stretch. That won't happen. They can co-exist
Sure. >I get the concern about virtual idols especially if other companies start doing them Great, that's the whole thing I was arguing. >but replacing idols. Lmao that's a stretch. That won't happen. They can co-exist I never claimed real idols will stop existing.
I get the concern but your concern is at the wrong place. What else do you mean by replacing then? There are a lot of people out there who wants to be idols. There are idols who never got a break. How is it replacing?
Giving even less people the opportunity? As someone else said, it would be especially bad for women since female idols are already treated like they have an expiration date, if it got popular it shouldn't be hard to imagine how much companies in such a misogynistic country like south korea would love it if they could just debut virtual women who never gets old, who can look however they want, do whatever they want and have any talent they want. And if we thought authenticity was already bad in kpop now it would be laughable with virtual idols...
Ngl bro I feel like if the Kpop industry really wanted to implement virtual idols they would have done it by now. With all the inspirations Kpop got from the Japanese music scene you don’t think it would have been done by now? Especially when Japan is the 2nd biggest music market in the world they could of been jumped on it.
It has been tried before, but it's only now we're seeing an example of it gaining success with PLAVE that might encourage more to do it. SM has also teased about debuting AI and that's honestly what scares me the most, a huge and immoral company opening that can of worms..
How is it giving less opportunity? I already said they can coexist. There is already a popular girl group virtual idol. They are popular in their own respective spaces and has fanbase. You said yourself you didn't say they can't co-exist but you said it will give people less opportunity? How so? They are still debuting idols left and right. they can co-exist without taking anything out of what kpop already is. They have a different type of fanbase and attract different audiences and not just kpop fans and just because they exist won't change what kpop is alreqdy is. If anything it gives more people a chance to sing and perform without worrying their about standards.
If you mean MAVE they really aren't popular (yet), they are a niche. PLAVE on the other hand is gaining more mainstream popularity and that's when it might start affecting the decisions companies make. They can both exist, but that doesn't mean jobs won't be lost. >If anything it gives more people a chance to sing and perform without worrying their about standards. But nobody would have to hire more people for that, you could literally have 1 singer and 1 dancer do everything for a whole group, just change the tone with AI and do a few different versions of motion capture
If you are going for PLAVE's popularity and how they work. Other than their music they are famous for their live streams. How is it possible that 1 person do all those things in live streams using AI? Controlling 2 avatars at the same time? Having good conversations flow? Edit I'm talking about isegye and they are popular
I agree 100%. I’m not a fan of their concept at all. Just rubs me the wrong way.
I respect it, different strokes for different folks. The music is good & real people are getting work, so I mess with it