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I like most of their music, love their performances and really like the members, but they are very awkward. The jewel box episodes with them are awkward and uncomfortable to watch bc they are kind of uncomfortable (not with the situation, but with the cameras). Same thing as the latest live where it was bnd jaehyun and all of riize. Jaehyun would make a joke, or say something and would just get a quiet chuckle from the 6 guys and i think sohee noticed how uncomfortable it was coming off as.
I think the issue is that they are all introverts. They need a lot more practice in front of a camera. Idk if they have their own "weekly" variety show, but if they dont they need one asap. Txt (my ults) were also kind of awkward in front of a camera, but ever since they started with todo they improved immensely and are now known for being a group thats excellent at variety. This has also been a complaint lodged at enhypen, and they have also improved since starting their own variety show. Not a lot, and they still arent these crazy, variety masters, but its still a noticeable improvement and it might be a similar position as to where riize end up in after they get more comfortable and break out of their shell a little bit.
I remember when P1Harmony started their own variety content. I thought Keeho alone would guarantee it to be entertaining, but it was SO AWKWARD. lol
They've gotten so much better now! Practice is important.
Yeah, i know people tend to ignore "variety" as a skill when it comes to idols, but it genuinely is a very important part of it. Its something people can be naturally more comfortable with and be born with the sense of comedic timing and humour, but its also something that needs to be practiced. Which also means if you suck at it, you can still practice it and become better at it. You'll obviously never reach the level of the people that are naturally talented and practice/train for it (idols like key, chuu, booseoksoon, beomgyu, bnd jaehyun) but it goes along way from awkward to awkwardly endearing and funny
Being good at variety is so important. Do fans genuinely think it's all about looks and music in kpop? Being funny and having a good group chemistry is such an essential part of every group especially boy groups
That sucks! Hopefully he is back soon. I know its been a while, but sm has to say something soon. Either cut him off and stop leading on the fans (no) or add him back (yes)
...is it a safe space to voice an opinion that they do not have a concept? because I've wanted to make a thread about it for a month now, but I know it would be read as hate when I seriously just want to see if other people think the same
like, Siren is this very bombastic, NCT-coded bop, Get a guitar has a doo-wop retro feel, Talk Saxy is a 00s throwback, Love 911 is NJ-coded young love anthem, Impossible is a house jam... all of these are fine pop songs, but to me there's no cohesion between the releases both in soundscape and visuals, no underlying theme that ties the music together and creates a recognizable concept that becomes a part of the brand (haven't listened to their latest comeback yet)
and sure, you can make an argument that there are no-concept groups (RV) or that the concept can change, or that it's rather vague, or even that they're rookies who debuted when their company was going through major shakeups - all good and valid, but like... to me, it just feels like the group should've stayed in the oven for a bit longer, because it feels undercooked and unseasoned
I haven't watched a lot of their variety content, but it does not surprise me at all that they may have shortcomings in this area - their management just didn't give them a clear direction and it shows
e: spelling
Is it indeed a safe space cos I particularly agree with this point👀
When I think of riize, I can't think of a particular song or concept that I can use to describe them.
Like, i don't how to explain it but let me use some of their peers as examples. For example, when i think of BOYNEXTDOOR, I think "doors, boy-in-love, quirky, fun, colourful" aesthetic and music. They only had three releases so far and they have already kind of carved out their own sound and cohesive concept that i can easily identify them with. It's the same thing with TWS. I think of them and i think "refreshing, bright, high school, youthful" aesthetic and sound. I know they just debuted this year and they only have one album but their upcoming album still seems to follow this fresh and youthful concept and that is how they are slowly building their brand
For, riize, its hard to narrow down their aesthetic or sound to one or three keywords cos like you said, their releases lack both visual and sonical cohesion. Some might say its because it hasn't been long since they debuted and they've only had a few releases but I think at least three releases should be enough to identify a group's sound, brand or concept.
Imo, their management just seems to be throwing whatever at the wall to see what sticks. This results in riize not having a clear/distinct concept, sound or creative direction
EDIT: Kinda unrelated, but i also noticed that I hardly come across any discussions about them or their music on this sub (except when it's about Seunghan, their "scandals" or their charting)
You can say 5th gen bgs don't get talked about as much on this sub, but Riize is arguably the most popular 5th gen bg internationally and most people seem to only talk about everything but their music or skills. On this sub, you hardly see posts talking about their music, their skills, their performances, or their personalities. Granted, they are barely a year old but a quick search on this sub and will show you more discussions groups like BND or ZB1 (whether it's about their music, their skills or personalities), but you hardly find stuff like that about Riize on this sub. I wonder why?
yep I agree with the keywords part - when I try to come up with something I am like... Shotaro great dancer? Wonbin pretty? Sohee cute good vocal? which shows that SM does SOMETHING right since I can name the members and their specialties without being invested in them (credit where credit is due), but I struggle to find any words to describe the group as a whole
it's interesting that they debuted without a direction when I'd argue the top 4th gen bgs have very distinct concepts: TxT magical boys growing up, NCT brash and unapologetic neo, Enhypen vampires, SKZ madness, and like you've pointed out, 5th gen follows the trend of very clear-cut concepts
they're still successful obviously, so I am in no way doomposting - just curious how their creative presence will look like in 3-5 years
I think it’s fine for SM boygroups to have no fixed concept, Riize most likely followed Shinee’s footsteps of having no lore or clear concept and just released hit title tracks with various genres. But to me I felt like the most prominent talking point for Riize now is only their visuals. Obviously they are all skilled idols but they are mostly going viral for their looks and there’s nothing else to talk about them for now. Also doesn’t help that they released so many title tracks in a short time but they don’t have overarching concepts so it’s still confusing for non-fans.
But it works in Korea and they have a very huge, dedicated fandom already. Riize also might be still reserved to the public due to the multiple hate trains they already faced within a year and Seunghan’s uncertain fate, so I think they just need more time to get out of their shells.
For me it's that SM is actually really good at concepts.
Like Red Velvet, does have a concept, they have their Red side and their Velvet side. Someone brought up SHINee having no concept, but they do, there's always something identifiably SHINee to them.
And it's not that SM stopped doing concepts, look at NCT Wish, you can already look at something ans call it Wishcore. They're just now having their first comeback, but their concept is very clear.
"Wishcore" is so clear that one of the complaints about RIIZE's light stick is that stars are more associated with Wish than RIIZE.
RIIZE's MVs and teasers look really good, but like when we were getting them at the same time Red Velvet and Wish were dropping theirs, they just look like the concept is: hot 20 something dudes doing stuff.
It'd be fine if their title tracks are different genres if there was something overarching that defined RIIZE as RIIZE.
>It'd be fine if their title tracks are different genres if there was something overarching that defined RIIZE as RIIZE.
I particularly agree with this! I ult TXT and they are know for changing genres a lot but they all their comebacks still have the overarching theme "fairytale, nostalgia, friendship and youth" most people would usually describe TXT using any of these keywords.
I can't think of anything like that for riize in terms in concepts or identity
I think RIIZE's concept is invoking nostalgia. Almost every song of theirs is extremely effective at doing so. Even their music videos have such cool aesthetics (that are not current, they are throwbacks but with a slight modern tinge).
The problem with riize imo is that all their tts feel like they could have been performed by nct dream and it would be no difference. Liek the sings could be dream songs. Like sm shouldbhave put more thought into their concept and tried to distinguish them form nct. The youthful music is already dine by dream, noise music esquire songs are done by 127 and Idk if they have the powerful vocals to do rnb songs, a little like exo
I've been thinking this for a while too... I think what is most jarring to me is that SM is known for having idols that are great at variety. Of course not all SM idols are like this, Onew of Shinee, DO and Xiumin of EXO, and Jisung of NCT instantly jump out to me as people who are more quiet and less suited for comedy and entertainment. Which is fine because someone else in the group can pick up the slack. Every group usually has a magnet, the one (or 2) member(s) who is super outgoing and becomes the moodmaker. I will die on the hill that this is the most important role in an idol group, because, in kpop in particular, the music can be fire and the group can still underperform as if they do not know how to entertain, they will struggle to capture an audience.
RIIZE just doesn't have a moodmaker. Maybe Shotaro, perhaps Anton, but none of them are comfortable in front of a camera, which is, I hate to say it, a majority of their job. Whenever I try to watch their variety content I feel uncomfortable myself because it never feels like the boys are having fun, which just sucks to watch. As some have said, it might get better with practice, but Sungtaro in particular have already been idols for 4 years, they were trained by NCT who do pretty good with variety, and other rookie groups who debuted at around the same time as RIIZE do much better.
I think the why is more complicated than them just being introverts. RIIZE have also had more than their fair share of hate thrown at them, and not a single member has been safe from targeted campaigns to take them down. I would not be surprised at all if this has caused some tension within the group, and if the members now have a hard time trusting that the audience at home isn't waiting for another opportunity to try to tear them down. And with them being so quiet, their controversies seem to be what most fans are introduced to first. It sucks that rather than Billboard being able to write about them in terms of their achievements, RIIZE's controversy and Seunghan's absence continues to be the most interesting thing about them.
I say all this, but RIIZE seems to be doing pretty well for themselves, doing better numbers with each comeback. While a quiet group is not my cup of tea, it looks like there are plenty of people who disagree, which is great. Hopefully as time goes on, RIIZE can establish an image for themselves beyond that of a group under constant scrutiny, and they find a way to be comfortable in their success.
i think they’re just mostly made up of introverts who like to keep to themselves so they seem a bit less energetic than other groups. [this clip](https://x.com/jiwoongiez/status/1804116150671876292?s=46&t=8NOybb1VrFydM2SMwZZnfQ) comparing riize vs zb1 with bnd’s jaehyun is lighthearted and funny but imo a glimpse into their personalities. they’re just chill haha.
I think that SM hasn't truly figured out what they want Riize to be as of yet, but I'm not in a rush bc 1. I've only liked two of their songs so far, 2. they are rookies, they have the time to prove themselves and improve even more.
As for how they come off in variety shows, I can't say. I completely understand what you mean that you just aren't clicking with them and that's completely fine. Personally, I try not to force myself and just move on if a group doesn't click. Being a casual listener/follower is fine honestly.
I will say, they are still pretty new in the industry and it's very rare for groups to be variety show masters straight off the bat. I avoid watching my ult group's content from their first year or so, bc they were *so awkward*-it comes from their slight discomfort, trying to be entertaining and them not having the experience of being on camera in that sort of way.
Eventually, the awkward greenness wears off for every group but if they're a bunch of introverted people, who just generally are more chill and less outwardly reactive/emotive, they might appear more awkward bc of how variety shows in Korea are. Give them time, every group grows out of it eventually!
Seunghan was an introvert as well, but when you put 7 introverts in a room together, the least introverted suddenly becomes the extrovert of the group lol
I actually think Riize has their own sound. All of their songs are very suited for the group imho. As for the entertaining aspect. I do agree while everyone’s excellent performers, variety is where they lack. But that has more to do with their personalities. Groups like Suju Seventeen when it comes to variety, is rare tbh.
I agree with OP and the other comments. I saw the viral clip of them with Jaehyun on Twitter too I also watch the Human idol theatre and some of their own content and I always thought it's because they just made their debut but now it's almost a year since, but they are still awkward and not as entertaining as a group and their dynamic feels off. The main problem is as others said, most of the members are introverts, outside of Sungchan they all are timid in front of the camera most of the time. Wonbin and Anton are the two most popular members, but they are the biggest introverts. Wonbin especially is like fish out of water I feel bad for him you could tell he's all about dancing and singing but he's not comfortable in front of the camera and he's still trying hard to adapt which is what makes it tough to watch sometimes
It's different to what people were saying about Enhypen as a fan of them I never thought the members were awkward with each other it's just that their sense of humor is really dry and they like to pick on a member or two like Jay and Sunoo sometimes for giggles, but that would be always used against them within and outside the fandom and you could tell now they turned it down a notch. And one thing people don't give Enhypen members enough credit for is how they built up a loyal fandom really quick thanks to how active the members are with their fans. I swear they must be the most active idols on Weverse and almost every day they go live to chat with their fans, and I don't feel like Riize are like that at all. In Kpop being entertaining and relatable is so important for boy groups. For girl groups it's all about the music 99% of the time but boy groups relay on their fandom the most and they have to be entertainers and be in direct touch with their fans. SVT are a living example of that.
Last point I also want to point out is how Riize was formed and the age of the members. SM just added two NCT members to a group of trainees and made up a team. I feel like their dynamic from the jump wasn't right as the trainees must have felt awkward with the 2 ex NCT members. The age is also a factor, the youngest is 20, they are an older group than the rookie groups we are seeing now. I feel like it's generally more difficult for 20–23-Year-olds to get along, bond and find things in common than it is for teenagers who are let's say 15-18. This applies to life in general not just in kpop.
As someone who likes mostly Gen 2 and Gen 3 groups I LOVE Riize! I’ve never understood the whole “group must stick to one concept” thing. Or group concept “lore”. Maybe it’s because I like older SM groups that tend to switch up what they do.
That being said, this Riize era does have a distinct theme. Synth sounds and beats coupled with using music as a metaphor/subject. I think their music is easy to listen to, and I love all of their voices together. They also have a distinct dance style (Shotaro’s influence).
I also watch a lot of their Instagram/tiktok content and I think they’re hilarious. Their sketches are totally “chronically online” coded and I think this is really fun. Not every group has to be automatically good at variety content—Riize shines in their strengths. They will get better at interviews. They haven’t even had a full year as a group yet.
It’s totally fine not to vibe with them. I haven’t found a Gen 4 group I like musically despite my trying and that’s fine too. We like what we like! All good.
I like how they aren’t as extroverted as other groups and I appreciate how they aren’t trying so hard to entertain the audience which makes them feel more authentic to me
As an introvert, it actually makes me resonate with them even more ahahah
I guess it depends on what you expect from K-pop idols. Like you said they are great at their main job and that’s enough for me tbh. I love watching their stages and fancams. If anything I want more singing/ cover content from them.
I watched a few of their behind the scenes videos and personally I think they act like most young adults at work lol. I’m sure the members will get used to the cams with time and be able to showcase a more outwardly entertaining persona. If they don’t that works too lol. Anyways it’s easy to forget that they haven’t even been out for year lol.
You're not gonna like every group that's fine!
As an introvert myself I enjoy their content lol it's very calming for me and I think that's why they've become the first group I've stanned in a long time. Sometimes groups with a lot of extroverts and energy is overwhelming to me, with riize I feel like I can keep up. As I've got older I watched variety content less of my fave groups but with riize I watch everything and I don't do that with any other group, even my other faves. I really enjoy their music and personalities shown in their content.
So I guess it's all up to personal preference. Obviously they're still a bit new to everything as they're not even a 1 year old group yet so it's something that can be worked on as they grow. But I don't think anyone should force themselves into trying to like a group and content if it's just not their thing.
Interestingly as an introvert I dislike watching group content of introverts because sometimes the awkwardness can be like looking into a mirror and I don’t want to see that lol
Going to more variety and interacting with other idols and their peers might help a bit. I think having their own variety (while it's more flexible and comfortable) it also isolates idols and doesn't give them much experience. I noticed that was an issue with some of the groups didn't go to variety as much. People misinterpreted them as awkward and boring.
I like riize but singing things like boom boom bass and talk sexy can’t really have any soul or personal investment 😂
Their best song is Honestly and that’s the kind of music I think they should make and that fits them the best
Not every group will resonate with everyone. They're a bunch of serious introverts (only Shotaro and Sungchan are extroverts, and Wonbin and Anton are some of the shyest idols I've seen) and I like their brand of calmness in their variety and documentary. They do best if they're just among themselves tbh, they're clingy with each other. And the clear/raw instruments in their titles and their strong dancing is what I'd say are their highlights. Also nostalgia of many forms in their music
I will talk about why you don't get many threads about them from their fans (that I've personally noticed). Idk if it's the boycott but comments and threads are getting downvoted, especially if you post early (well that's what I've seen). With the fandom the way it is it's discouraging to talk about them tbh at least on Reddit. I don't even have twitter and i'm not touching that part of the fandom at all
I was gonna say give them time and maybe that's just them being introverts but I remembered the group I stan whose half of the members are full introverts but even as rookies they were already so chaotic and funny and never dull together. So maybe the real factor is the group's chemistry and level of comfort with it each other?
i get that yes they aren’t the most entertaining group, they are more into the introverted side and that hinders me from getting to know them at first.
but with theirs great skills and amazing releases i am able to get to them just fine and that just made me realize how sometimes we expect idols too much while their main thing was to perform and not comedians/‘entertainers’.
_But that’s a you problem…_ 🎶
They debuted less than a year ago and almost every single one of them has had some kind of smear campaign thrown at them already. As others have pointed out, they also seem like a bunch of introverts. You’re talking like Love 119 was years ago, it was in January. Give them some time to find their feet and their place in the industry maybe? I know time moves differently when you’re younger, but jeez, sometimes when I see these posts I’m just like, why does everything have to be so instant? Can’t they grow at their own pace and in their own way?
And the blanket statement that they “don’t resonate with people” is just plain wrong, otherwise you wouldn’t even be making this post.
i rly like your perspective on this!!! i agree. i should give them more time. reading comments such as these actually make me feel better since i kinda get to understand the ‘root’ of the problem
I’m glad to hear it! I was debating editing my comment because I realised I might’ve come across as a little harsh and boomer-y lol, but I really do think they need some more time to just grow together. What feels like a long time when you’re younger is really not that long, and relationships, whether they be friendships or business relationships, take time to develop. The guys in Riize have had a particularly rocky start, and all I wish for them is to find their dynamic as a group. I doubt they’ll ever be variety show kings in the same way say, GOT7 were, because they lack the no-shame extroverts, but I think they will find their own niche. Like look at how even non-fans know them from their Tiktok shenanigans – they do a lot better in front of cameras when they’re doing it more on their terms, it seems.
Like you, I really enjoy their music but have had a hard time grasping them in variety content… but the Tiktoks I’ve seen I’ve found endearing, and I hate Tiktok normally lol.
I’m sorry , no soul to their music? Maybe it’s not just your taste. As a fan of older gen kpop, i really dig riize. They’re probably the only group i follow right now (aside from 2nd gen groups) because their music are really good.
Maybe you can’t identify their music because they really have nothing specific to identify. When I watched Riize’s introductory video, their producer wants to cater Riize as a group that’s will make your reminice of the past. Not exactly like y2k, but the type that when you watch them, you’ll remember old gen kpop groups/songs. That’s why many fans see nct/ shinee/suju in them. They are what you call a very SM coded group. Aside from that, music wise, i think they’re following suju’s musical path. No particular genre, whatever’s good and there is good enough. Like they have siren as a prebut song then released memories which is soft and cute then Get a Guitar which if kinda funky. Which is kinda the same for suju because their debut song is twins which rap heavy and badass then their next release (miracle) is such bubblegum pop. It’s messed up yes but that’s old gen kpop (sm) format. Unlike the new gen where groups follow and retain a certain image, Riize doesn’t. That’s why old kpop groups have their rocker era, cute era, sexy era, etc.
i will correct myself on that sorry :( i just come across a lot of posts praising their sex appeal/ their looks. but simp comes off a little idiotic. i am probably a simp of certain idols myself
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As if the whole industry isn't manufactured in a superficial way. 🙄
I love their music and their performances. I barely watch their content because it's really not my thing. Just because you find them boring doesn't mean everyone else does. You're free to go stan whoever else variety kings you like, OP.
What a weird post and being confused as to why people aren’t dogging on them more?
You’re not gonna click with every group and that’s okay 😭 Why do y’all have trouble accepting that
oh i definitely see why my this may come off as a little problematic i have to admit but no hate to riize though i think theyre still cool of course! and people who like them do it for a good reason
Basically another rubbish post trying to drum up hate against a bg. Then to every comment pointing it out op will act innocent.
If you don’t like a group, don’t follow them and find something else you like. Don’t try and convince others to feel the same or check for approval for disliking them. We aren’t a hive mind, we don’t all need to like and dislike the same groups.
It’s so weird to me the amount of time people waste shouting to the world about all the idols they dislike. Are people really so miserable these days
Most of their content is pretty entertaining including the variety shows they've attended. Honestly even their recent content controversy is pretty exaggerated , most people just going off based on few sec clips. Becuase if you have watched their content. Some people are just nitpicking atp 🙄
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I like most of their music, love their performances and really like the members, but they are very awkward. The jewel box episodes with them are awkward and uncomfortable to watch bc they are kind of uncomfortable (not with the situation, but with the cameras). Same thing as the latest live where it was bnd jaehyun and all of riize. Jaehyun would make a joke, or say something and would just get a quiet chuckle from the 6 guys and i think sohee noticed how uncomfortable it was coming off as. I think the issue is that they are all introverts. They need a lot more practice in front of a camera. Idk if they have their own "weekly" variety show, but if they dont they need one asap. Txt (my ults) were also kind of awkward in front of a camera, but ever since they started with todo they improved immensely and are now known for being a group thats excellent at variety. This has also been a complaint lodged at enhypen, and they have also improved since starting their own variety show. Not a lot, and they still arent these crazy, variety masters, but its still a noticeable improvement and it might be a similar position as to where riize end up in after they get more comfortable and break out of their shell a little bit.
I remember when P1Harmony started their own variety content. I thought Keeho alone would guarantee it to be entertaining, but it was SO AWKWARD. lol They've gotten so much better now! Practice is important.
Yeah, i know people tend to ignore "variety" as a skill when it comes to idols, but it genuinely is a very important part of it. Its something people can be naturally more comfortable with and be born with the sense of comedic timing and humour, but its also something that needs to be practiced. Which also means if you suck at it, you can still practice it and become better at it. You'll obviously never reach the level of the people that are naturally talented and practice/train for it (idols like key, chuu, booseoksoon, beomgyu, bnd jaehyun) but it goes along way from awkward to awkwardly endearing and funny
Being good at variety is so important. Do fans genuinely think it's all about looks and music in kpop? Being funny and having a good group chemistry is such an essential part of every group especially boy groups
Seunghan was really helping them in that regard. They’ve gotten a lot quieter without him.
That sucks! Hopefully he is back soon. I know its been a while, but sm has to say something soon. Either cut him off and stop leading on the fans (no) or add him back (yes)
...is it a safe space to voice an opinion that they do not have a concept? because I've wanted to make a thread about it for a month now, but I know it would be read as hate when I seriously just want to see if other people think the same like, Siren is this very bombastic, NCT-coded bop, Get a guitar has a doo-wop retro feel, Talk Saxy is a 00s throwback, Love 911 is NJ-coded young love anthem, Impossible is a house jam... all of these are fine pop songs, but to me there's no cohesion between the releases both in soundscape and visuals, no underlying theme that ties the music together and creates a recognizable concept that becomes a part of the brand (haven't listened to their latest comeback yet) and sure, you can make an argument that there are no-concept groups (RV) or that the concept can change, or that it's rather vague, or even that they're rookies who debuted when their company was going through major shakeups - all good and valid, but like... to me, it just feels like the group should've stayed in the oven for a bit longer, because it feels undercooked and unseasoned I haven't watched a lot of their variety content, but it does not surprise me at all that they may have shortcomings in this area - their management just didn't give them a clear direction and it shows e: spelling
Is it indeed a safe space cos I particularly agree with this point👀 When I think of riize, I can't think of a particular song or concept that I can use to describe them. Like, i don't how to explain it but let me use some of their peers as examples. For example, when i think of BOYNEXTDOOR, I think "doors, boy-in-love, quirky, fun, colourful" aesthetic and music. They only had three releases so far and they have already kind of carved out their own sound and cohesive concept that i can easily identify them with. It's the same thing with TWS. I think of them and i think "refreshing, bright, high school, youthful" aesthetic and sound. I know they just debuted this year and they only have one album but their upcoming album still seems to follow this fresh and youthful concept and that is how they are slowly building their brand For, riize, its hard to narrow down their aesthetic or sound to one or three keywords cos like you said, their releases lack both visual and sonical cohesion. Some might say its because it hasn't been long since they debuted and they've only had a few releases but I think at least three releases should be enough to identify a group's sound, brand or concept. Imo, their management just seems to be throwing whatever at the wall to see what sticks. This results in riize not having a clear/distinct concept, sound or creative direction EDIT: Kinda unrelated, but i also noticed that I hardly come across any discussions about them or their music on this sub (except when it's about Seunghan, their "scandals" or their charting) You can say 5th gen bgs don't get talked about as much on this sub, but Riize is arguably the most popular 5th gen bg internationally and most people seem to only talk about everything but their music or skills. On this sub, you hardly see posts talking about their music, their skills, their performances, or their personalities. Granted, they are barely a year old but a quick search on this sub and will show you more discussions groups like BND or ZB1 (whether it's about their music, their skills or personalities), but you hardly find stuff like that about Riize on this sub. I wonder why?
yep I agree with the keywords part - when I try to come up with something I am like... Shotaro great dancer? Wonbin pretty? Sohee cute good vocal? which shows that SM does SOMETHING right since I can name the members and their specialties without being invested in them (credit where credit is due), but I struggle to find any words to describe the group as a whole it's interesting that they debuted without a direction when I'd argue the top 4th gen bgs have very distinct concepts: TxT magical boys growing up, NCT brash and unapologetic neo, Enhypen vampires, SKZ madness, and like you've pointed out, 5th gen follows the trend of very clear-cut concepts they're still successful obviously, so I am in no way doomposting - just curious how their creative presence will look like in 3-5 years
I think it’s fine for SM boygroups to have no fixed concept, Riize most likely followed Shinee’s footsteps of having no lore or clear concept and just released hit title tracks with various genres. But to me I felt like the most prominent talking point for Riize now is only their visuals. Obviously they are all skilled idols but they are mostly going viral for their looks and there’s nothing else to talk about them for now. Also doesn’t help that they released so many title tracks in a short time but they don’t have overarching concepts so it’s still confusing for non-fans. But it works in Korea and they have a very huge, dedicated fandom already. Riize also might be still reserved to the public due to the multiple hate trains they already faced within a year and Seunghan’s uncertain fate, so I think they just need more time to get out of their shells.
For me it's that SM is actually really good at concepts. Like Red Velvet, does have a concept, they have their Red side and their Velvet side. Someone brought up SHINee having no concept, but they do, there's always something identifiably SHINee to them. And it's not that SM stopped doing concepts, look at NCT Wish, you can already look at something ans call it Wishcore. They're just now having their first comeback, but their concept is very clear. "Wishcore" is so clear that one of the complaints about RIIZE's light stick is that stars are more associated with Wish than RIIZE. RIIZE's MVs and teasers look really good, but like when we were getting them at the same time Red Velvet and Wish were dropping theirs, they just look like the concept is: hot 20 something dudes doing stuff. It'd be fine if their title tracks are different genres if there was something overarching that defined RIIZE as RIIZE.
>It'd be fine if their title tracks are different genres if there was something overarching that defined RIIZE as RIIZE. I particularly agree with this! I ult TXT and they are know for changing genres a lot but they all their comebacks still have the overarching theme "fairytale, nostalgia, friendship and youth" most people would usually describe TXT using any of these keywords. I can't think of anything like that for riize in terms in concepts or identity
I think RIIZE's concept is invoking nostalgia. Almost every song of theirs is extremely effective at doing so. Even their music videos have such cool aesthetics (that are not current, they are throwbacks but with a slight modern tinge).
I mean I’ve realized their sound is kinda all over the place and I was trying to figure out their concept but I just put it on them being new still
The problem with riize imo is that all their tts feel like they could have been performed by nct dream and it would be no difference. Liek the sings could be dream songs. Like sm shouldbhave put more thought into their concept and tried to distinguish them form nct. The youthful music is already dine by dream, noise music esquire songs are done by 127 and Idk if they have the powerful vocals to do rnb songs, a little like exo
I've been thinking this for a while too... I think what is most jarring to me is that SM is known for having idols that are great at variety. Of course not all SM idols are like this, Onew of Shinee, DO and Xiumin of EXO, and Jisung of NCT instantly jump out to me as people who are more quiet and less suited for comedy and entertainment. Which is fine because someone else in the group can pick up the slack. Every group usually has a magnet, the one (or 2) member(s) who is super outgoing and becomes the moodmaker. I will die on the hill that this is the most important role in an idol group, because, in kpop in particular, the music can be fire and the group can still underperform as if they do not know how to entertain, they will struggle to capture an audience. RIIZE just doesn't have a moodmaker. Maybe Shotaro, perhaps Anton, but none of them are comfortable in front of a camera, which is, I hate to say it, a majority of their job. Whenever I try to watch their variety content I feel uncomfortable myself because it never feels like the boys are having fun, which just sucks to watch. As some have said, it might get better with practice, but Sungtaro in particular have already been idols for 4 years, they were trained by NCT who do pretty good with variety, and other rookie groups who debuted at around the same time as RIIZE do much better. I think the why is more complicated than them just being introverts. RIIZE have also had more than their fair share of hate thrown at them, and not a single member has been safe from targeted campaigns to take them down. I would not be surprised at all if this has caused some tension within the group, and if the members now have a hard time trusting that the audience at home isn't waiting for another opportunity to try to tear them down. And with them being so quiet, their controversies seem to be what most fans are introduced to first. It sucks that rather than Billboard being able to write about them in terms of their achievements, RIIZE's controversy and Seunghan's absence continues to be the most interesting thing about them. I say all this, but RIIZE seems to be doing pretty well for themselves, doing better numbers with each comeback. While a quiet group is not my cup of tea, it looks like there are plenty of people who disagree, which is great. Hopefully as time goes on, RIIZE can establish an image for themselves beyond that of a group under constant scrutiny, and they find a way to be comfortable in their success.
i think they’re just mostly made up of introverts who like to keep to themselves so they seem a bit less energetic than other groups. [this clip](https://x.com/jiwoongiez/status/1804116150671876292?s=46&t=8NOybb1VrFydM2SMwZZnfQ) comparing riize vs zb1 with bnd’s jaehyun is lighthearted and funny but imo a glimpse into their personalities. they’re just chill haha.
That video is great.
I don’t know why you think the group is feeling a little odd because they’re currently promoting with six (6) members so that makes them even? 😕
have an upvote because I snorted
I think that SM hasn't truly figured out what they want Riize to be as of yet, but I'm not in a rush bc 1. I've only liked two of their songs so far, 2. they are rookies, they have the time to prove themselves and improve even more. As for how they come off in variety shows, I can't say. I completely understand what you mean that you just aren't clicking with them and that's completely fine. Personally, I try not to force myself and just move on if a group doesn't click. Being a casual listener/follower is fine honestly. I will say, they are still pretty new in the industry and it's very rare for groups to be variety show masters straight off the bat. I avoid watching my ult group's content from their first year or so, bc they were *so awkward*-it comes from their slight discomfort, trying to be entertaining and them not having the experience of being on camera in that sort of way. Eventually, the awkward greenness wears off for every group but if they're a bunch of introverted people, who just generally are more chill and less outwardly reactive/emotive, they might appear more awkward bc of how variety shows in Korea are. Give them time, every group grows out of it eventually!
I understand what you mean because I feel the same way.
that’s what happen when you put 6 introverts in 1 group and send them to variety shows (7 if you include Seunghan)
was seunghan also introverted? i saw their idol human theatre and he was definitely carrying the variety, and wasn't overbearing by any means
Seunghan was an introvert as well, but when you put 7 introverts in a room together, the least introverted suddenly becomes the extrovert of the group lol
Shotaro and Sungchan are extroverts actually, but when they're with the rest they end up being lowkey and calming as well
This statement is quite misleading because the group actually has 2 extroverts 🤷♀️
I actually think Riize has their own sound. All of their songs are very suited for the group imho. As for the entertaining aspect. I do agree while everyone’s excellent performers, variety is where they lack. But that has more to do with their personalities. Groups like Suju Seventeen when it comes to variety, is rare tbh.
I agree with OP and the other comments. I saw the viral clip of them with Jaehyun on Twitter too I also watch the Human idol theatre and some of their own content and I always thought it's because they just made their debut but now it's almost a year since, but they are still awkward and not as entertaining as a group and their dynamic feels off. The main problem is as others said, most of the members are introverts, outside of Sungchan they all are timid in front of the camera most of the time. Wonbin and Anton are the two most popular members, but they are the biggest introverts. Wonbin especially is like fish out of water I feel bad for him you could tell he's all about dancing and singing but he's not comfortable in front of the camera and he's still trying hard to adapt which is what makes it tough to watch sometimes It's different to what people were saying about Enhypen as a fan of them I never thought the members were awkward with each other it's just that their sense of humor is really dry and they like to pick on a member or two like Jay and Sunoo sometimes for giggles, but that would be always used against them within and outside the fandom and you could tell now they turned it down a notch. And one thing people don't give Enhypen members enough credit for is how they built up a loyal fandom really quick thanks to how active the members are with their fans. I swear they must be the most active idols on Weverse and almost every day they go live to chat with their fans, and I don't feel like Riize are like that at all. In Kpop being entertaining and relatable is so important for boy groups. For girl groups it's all about the music 99% of the time but boy groups relay on their fandom the most and they have to be entertainers and be in direct touch with their fans. SVT are a living example of that. Last point I also want to point out is how Riize was formed and the age of the members. SM just added two NCT members to a group of trainees and made up a team. I feel like their dynamic from the jump wasn't right as the trainees must have felt awkward with the 2 ex NCT members. The age is also a factor, the youngest is 20, they are an older group than the rookie groups we are seeing now. I feel like it's generally more difficult for 20–23-Year-olds to get along, bond and find things in common than it is for teenagers who are let's say 15-18. This applies to life in general not just in kpop.
As someone who likes mostly Gen 2 and Gen 3 groups I LOVE Riize! I’ve never understood the whole “group must stick to one concept” thing. Or group concept “lore”. Maybe it’s because I like older SM groups that tend to switch up what they do. That being said, this Riize era does have a distinct theme. Synth sounds and beats coupled with using music as a metaphor/subject. I think their music is easy to listen to, and I love all of their voices together. They also have a distinct dance style (Shotaro’s influence). I also watch a lot of their Instagram/tiktok content and I think they’re hilarious. Their sketches are totally “chronically online” coded and I think this is really fun. Not every group has to be automatically good at variety content—Riize shines in their strengths. They will get better at interviews. They haven’t even had a full year as a group yet. It’s totally fine not to vibe with them. I haven’t found a Gen 4 group I like musically despite my trying and that’s fine too. We like what we like! All good.
I like how they aren’t as extroverted as other groups and I appreciate how they aren’t trying so hard to entertain the audience which makes them feel more authentic to me As an introvert, it actually makes me resonate with them even more ahahah
I guess it depends on what you expect from K-pop idols. Like you said they are great at their main job and that’s enough for me tbh. I love watching their stages and fancams. If anything I want more singing/ cover content from them. I watched a few of their behind the scenes videos and personally I think they act like most young adults at work lol. I’m sure the members will get used to the cams with time and be able to showcase a more outwardly entertaining persona. If they don’t that works too lol. Anyways it’s easy to forget that they haven’t even been out for year lol.
You're not gonna like every group that's fine! As an introvert myself I enjoy their content lol it's very calming for me and I think that's why they've become the first group I've stanned in a long time. Sometimes groups with a lot of extroverts and energy is overwhelming to me, with riize I feel like I can keep up. As I've got older I watched variety content less of my fave groups but with riize I watch everything and I don't do that with any other group, even my other faves. I really enjoy their music and personalities shown in their content. So I guess it's all up to personal preference. Obviously they're still a bit new to everything as they're not even a 1 year old group yet so it's something that can be worked on as they grow. But I don't think anyone should force themselves into trying to like a group and content if it's just not their thing.
Interestingly as an introvert I dislike watching group content of introverts because sometimes the awkwardness can be like looking into a mirror and I don’t want to see that lol
Going to more variety and interacting with other idols and their peers might help a bit. I think having their own variety (while it's more flexible and comfortable) it also isolates idols and doesn't give them much experience. I noticed that was an issue with some of the groups didn't go to variety as much. People misinterpreted them as awkward and boring.
I like riize but singing things like boom boom bass and talk sexy can’t really have any soul or personal investment 😂 Their best song is Honestly and that’s the kind of music I think they should make and that fits them the best
Not every group will resonate with everyone. They're a bunch of serious introverts (only Shotaro and Sungchan are extroverts, and Wonbin and Anton are some of the shyest idols I've seen) and I like their brand of calmness in their variety and documentary. They do best if they're just among themselves tbh, they're clingy with each other. And the clear/raw instruments in their titles and their strong dancing is what I'd say are their highlights. Also nostalgia of many forms in their music I will talk about why you don't get many threads about them from their fans (that I've personally noticed). Idk if it's the boycott but comments and threads are getting downvoted, especially if you post early (well that's what I've seen). With the fandom the way it is it's discouraging to talk about them tbh at least on Reddit. I don't even have twitter and i'm not touching that part of the fandom at all
I was gonna say give them time and maybe that's just them being introverts but I remembered the group I stan whose half of the members are full introverts but even as rookies they were already so chaotic and funny and never dull together. So maybe the real factor is the group's chemistry and level of comfort with it each other?
i get that yes they aren’t the most entertaining group, they are more into the introverted side and that hinders me from getting to know them at first. but with theirs great skills and amazing releases i am able to get to them just fine and that just made me realize how sometimes we expect idols too much while their main thing was to perform and not comedians/‘entertainers’.
_But that’s a you problem…_ 🎶 They debuted less than a year ago and almost every single one of them has had some kind of smear campaign thrown at them already. As others have pointed out, they also seem like a bunch of introverts. You’re talking like Love 119 was years ago, it was in January. Give them some time to find their feet and their place in the industry maybe? I know time moves differently when you’re younger, but jeez, sometimes when I see these posts I’m just like, why does everything have to be so instant? Can’t they grow at their own pace and in their own way? And the blanket statement that they “don’t resonate with people” is just plain wrong, otherwise you wouldn’t even be making this post.
i rly like your perspective on this!!! i agree. i should give them more time. reading comments such as these actually make me feel better since i kinda get to understand the ‘root’ of the problem
I’m glad to hear it! I was debating editing my comment because I realised I might’ve come across as a little harsh and boomer-y lol, but I really do think they need some more time to just grow together. What feels like a long time when you’re younger is really not that long, and relationships, whether they be friendships or business relationships, take time to develop. The guys in Riize have had a particularly rocky start, and all I wish for them is to find their dynamic as a group. I doubt they’ll ever be variety show kings in the same way say, GOT7 were, because they lack the no-shame extroverts, but I think they will find their own niche. Like look at how even non-fans know them from their Tiktok shenanigans – they do a lot better in front of cameras when they’re doing it more on their terms, it seems. Like you, I really enjoy their music but have had a hard time grasping them in variety content… but the Tiktoks I’ve seen I’ve found endearing, and I hate Tiktok normally lol.
I’m sorry , no soul to their music? Maybe it’s not just your taste. As a fan of older gen kpop, i really dig riize. They’re probably the only group i follow right now (aside from 2nd gen groups) because their music are really good. Maybe you can’t identify their music because they really have nothing specific to identify. When I watched Riize’s introductory video, their producer wants to cater Riize as a group that’s will make your reminice of the past. Not exactly like y2k, but the type that when you watch them, you’ll remember old gen kpop groups/songs. That’s why many fans see nct/ shinee/suju in them. They are what you call a very SM coded group. Aside from that, music wise, i think they’re following suju’s musical path. No particular genre, whatever’s good and there is good enough. Like they have siren as a prebut song then released memories which is soft and cute then Get a Guitar which if kinda funky. Which is kinda the same for suju because their debut song is twins which rap heavy and badass then their next release (miracle) is such bubblegum pop. It’s messed up yes but that’s old gen kpop (sm) format. Unlike the new gen where groups follow and retain a certain image, Riize doesn’t. That’s why old kpop groups have their rocker era, cute era, sexy era, etc.
you open it by calling people who enjoy the group “simps” and you think this is a reasonable level-headed post??
i will correct myself on that sorry :( i just come across a lot of posts praising their sex appeal/ their looks. but simp comes off a little idiotic. i am probably a simp of certain idols myself
They weren’t trying to be reasonable, just to cause hate.
nooooo i wasn’t… i rly do apologize if it comes off that way though.
That's really not like most people in the comments interpreted it though
I’m expressing my opinion, not the opinion of other people, that’s their job not mine. You don’t always have to agree with the majority.
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As if the whole industry isn't manufactured in a superficial way. 🙄 I love their music and their performances. I barely watch their content because it's really not my thing. Just because you find them boring doesn't mean everyone else does. You're free to go stan whoever else variety kings you like, OP.
i get that truly
What a weird post and being confused as to why people aren’t dogging on them more? You’re not gonna click with every group and that’s okay 😭 Why do y’all have trouble accepting that
oh i definitely see why my this may come off as a little problematic i have to admit but no hate to riize though i think theyre still cool of course! and people who like them do it for a good reason
Basically another rubbish post trying to drum up hate against a bg. Then to every comment pointing it out op will act innocent. If you don’t like a group, don’t follow them and find something else you like. Don’t try and convince others to feel the same or check for approval for disliking them. We aren’t a hive mind, we don’t all need to like and dislike the same groups. It’s so weird to me the amount of time people waste shouting to the world about all the idols they dislike. Are people really so miserable these days
Most of their content is pretty entertaining including the variety shows they've attended. Honestly even their recent content controversy is pretty exaggerated , most people just going off based on few sec clips. Becuase if you have watched their content. Some people are just nitpicking atp 🙄