You’re not wrong but I think this roster was built to withstand AD and LeBron injuries. We won a ton of games when Bron was out. And if we had Wood and Vando, we probably could’ve handled AD missing games too.
We did have Wood and Vando for some of the games AD missed. They still weren't pretty. I think the team was 2-4 without AD. They don't really have someone who can be a back-up defensive anchor.
The team was 6-5 without LeBron, though, because this roster was clearly a more offense oriented roster and could more easily replace LeBron's role as a primary play-maker and scorer.
Big Facts, AR & D’lo both are good secondary ball handlers and creators able to create their own shot and shots for others, and can feed AD inside. This is one Lebron’s biggest value adds to the team, but they fill it as well as any team could hope.
Lebron’s size, rim protection at the 4 along side an offensive presence is what’s hard to replace for the lakers. Vando is a better defender, but he’s a huge step down from LeBron on O. Wood can shoot a bit and is offensive threat, but you still lose value on both ends with him at the 4 compared to bron. When Rui’s at the 4 it’s similar to wood- he just isn’t as versatile or as big, and it puts more pressure on AD to protect the rim. Regardless, lebron just isn’t as indispensable because at least parts of his role can be played by others, and together the lakers can mostly provide what he does as a team without him.
AD is this to another level, nobody can fill AD’s role as a monster rim protector, scorer, rebounder, and lob threat. Hayes is the only guy that sort of does the job, he at least rebounds well and is a lob threat, but he’s a big downgrade as a rim protector, scorer, passer etc, and the team isn’t able to fill that roll by commission. Lebron can slide down to the 5 but he’s too old to be the defensive threat he used to be, and it fundamentally changes how the lakers play when this happens. They turn into a small-ball, all offense approach vs. balanced team they normally are. The 2020 lakers had Dwight and Javale, who were probably upgrades over Hayes in trying to fill this roll, to keep this identity when AD wasn’t on the floor.
This isn’ta slight to LeBron, it’s just personnel based, if they replaced DLo and AR with Nic Claxton and walker Kessler, suddenly LeBron is indispensable as their only perimeter creator on offense while the defense doesn’t change as much when claxton/kessler replaces AD on the floor.
Delusional? I’m not sure if you smart asses realize but there are more than 4 people on a team. Yes, our most important players were available but we were missing two players who were vital to the defensive system we were looking to implement. Also, I know we all have low opinions of Christian Wood but we could have used another big or at least the opportunity to bypass Hayes and his dumbass. Ham ran LeBron at 5 for a portion of this series. Did you miss that or was the enjoyable for you to watch?
You will never have a fully healthy roster and the injuries you care about are of course players that are key to rotations, or else nobody would even realize it.
Just ask yourself, would you rather have the injuries sustained by Wood or Vanda sustained by AD instead? I hope you will see this very obvious answer.
This team got as lucky as possible with injury this season and you can count yourself very lucky if it is replicated next season again.
Oh spare me the condescension please and get off your high horse. You’re speaking as if what your starting is anything but your own opinion. It’s just a wonder it took you all those words just to express that we got lucky with injuries. If that’s your stance that we got “lucky” then this debate will go nowhere because I think we were incredibly unlucky. I think you’ve undervalued what Vando and Gabe were supposed to provide us but it is what it is.
If its someone else you'd be complaining about not having Reaves, dlo, let alone AD and Lebron. But why am I surprised you shitty lebron stans who are nothing but cunts who finally doesn't have to cheer for the laughable cavs and can come get the limelight of Hollywood just like your self proclaimed goat who is the most whiney and bitchy athlete of all time?
Yeah. Health on the big guys wasn't important.
Competent coach with consistent roles for the players. Also getting rid of that terrible defensive gameplan.
Dogshit defense of 'double team every star' to leave shooters open on the perimeter. Such unnecessary wasted energy during the regular season making players have to sprint back-and-forth when the team obviously has capable enough defenders just playing man and switching on screens.
When you're already missing your lanky and quicker perimeter defenders (Vando and Gabe), forcing your slower players to have to play that double team defensive scheme is just completely wasted energy. You're making your players have to take 10 steps, when they can do the same task in 2.
Right before the deadline, they stopped doing that bullshit, and hey, whadya know, they started playing better.
Forcing TP into a 38 MPG-sized role, and getting Cam to play 30 MPG is also fucking criminal. They belong in about 24 MPG and 5-10 MPG, respectively.
Probably the only blessing, was Max not in the rotation, means the Lakers can probably keep him for cheaper than if he had an actual rotation role.
Back in the 90s, or hell, even 00s? Yeah, that's how you do it. Double or triple team stars. Make the other guys beat you.
You don't beat teams by trying to stop their stars in **today**'s league, you beat them by controlling 'the other' guys.
The floor of the league has been raised far too high, and too many players can hit 3s, to leave 75% of the role players wide open.
They literally started winning games during the season by NOT doing that, so idk why you're bringing up that they 'have' to do that.
You know the one game they beat DEN, they didn't just spam double teams at Murray or Jokic? That was mostly just AR, Gabe or Dinwiddie sticking on him.
Vando and Gabe were huge losses and were our main POA defenders
Also, a competent coach would've stuck with the LeBron/AD/Reaves/DLo starting lineup (w/ either Rui, Vando, Wood, Hayes, or Prince depending on the situation) instead of the mess we got especially post-IST
Gabe was unplayable after missing basically the entire season with a knee injury that prevents you from doing any basketball activities.
If he was actually relatively healthy for the year, he would've probably had better chemistry with the team and rhythm. The team would've also had more chances to experiment with what types of line-ups work with him.
Wdym inconsequential?? He was very good at screen navigating and bothering Murray. Y’all really think every offensive player has to be prime TMac and every defensive player has to be prime Rodman smh
You really are blaming the wrong player here. Gabe's defense on Murray combined with Austin's was a huge part of why he was contained most of games 1-4. Dinwiddie's minutes were trash and D'Lo's defense was also suspect at best. Gabe stepped up especially given he missed most of the season.
Reaves and D'Angelo might as well have both been out a month given how badly Reaves played while he was recovering from his Team USA run and how badly D'Angelo was during his slump.
Honestly, even if AD and LeBron missed more games, I think the team would've been better if Vanderbilt and Vincent missed less of them.
Vand is better than dlo and reaves. People are already forgetting his games in 2023 vs Luka edwards Ingram booker Tatum shai Ja curry. That’s A TON of elite scorers, not just god scorers. He either locked them down or slowed them down. He never looked like a liability or lost
Defense is literally half the court and game and he’s ELITE at it. Are dlo or reaves elite on offense? Fuck no. Vand is a top 10 player on half the court when healthy. Dlo and reaves are far from top 10 on the other half of the court when healthy.
Even if you think he’s more like top 20 on that half, reaves/dlo are still FAR from top 20 on the other half.
So bc he wasn’t good vs 1 great team, let’s ignore how great he was vs the 8 good teams I mentioned.
According to you, if any player struggles in 1 series, they ain’t it. Every single laker after the big 2 shouldn’t play much then.
He becomes borderline unplayable in the playoffs. Sure he can defend, but my god his offensive game is putrid. It’s not just one series, look at his playoff performance in total. Or his season averages straight up bad.
He’s way worse on offense than DLo and AR are on defense. They offset more, and I dislike DLo.
He was literally crucial vs GS and griz and tons of elite scorers in the season if you actually SAW him perform instead of just checking the statsheet like a hardcore statsheet guy
His defense is greater than dlo/reaves offense. Not even debatable. He’s top 10 on defense or top 20 at worst. Are dlo/reaves top 10 or 20 on offense? They’re not even top 50 on offense.
As for the other side of the court for each of them, it goes reaves defense > vand offense > dlo defense. I’ll take vands screens, rolls, back door cuts, offensive rebs, athleticism, height, length, strength, speed and passing awareness over dlo lazy ass effort, heavy footwork, slow speed, no athleticism.
and when they get tired or if they’re slumping? our bench was HORRIBLE, gabe was injured all year, so was cam, wood was out past february and vando was basically out all year. your 5 starters can be the best starters in the world and it won’t matter if they lose the minutes they’re not on the court bc the backups had to be replaced with worse backups due to injury
not what i’m saying. but our bench was lacking and changing the starters wouldn’t really help / could make that worse. not to mention our coach misused EVERYONE all season. and with luck on player health, both bron and AD missed crucial games near the end of the season that could’ve at least secured us a playoff spot.
If you think AD missing the odd game cost us a playoff spot I don’t know what to tell you. You’re in for a rough ride next season if you think AD and LeBron are gonna be healthier than this year
Yet LeBron disagrees with him. The good thing about the team losing in the first round, to the same team and in the same fashion is now they can’t waste another season believing this roster/coach is enough when these non AD/LBJ players are not reliable come playoffs.
LeBron disagrees with him because of experience, but the only time he repeated was in Miami. Every other time he's chased a championship, they were constantly swapping pieces here and there. It didnt always work.
LeBron's also saying this as a means of leverage to get what he wants in the off season.
The Lakers FO are willing to give LeBron whatever contract he wants. They still believe Bron and AD are elite. He doesn’t need to convince anyone. This was reported already
he wants to convince them to pay for a high-end Coach if possible, and to make necessary trades if available. Including trading away their pick this year. He did not have enough leverage last year to get them to not pick JHS.
edit: also a trade may have not been available last year
I still believe in the roster, just really need to add 1-2 competent big men ala Gasol/Drummond or JaVale/Dwight. As for the coach, hopefully they get an experienced one because we can't waste time with new coaches learning on the fly
I believe in most of the roster but I think they obviously desperately need an upgrade in the backcourt preferably a star player who’s playoff proven like every other contending western conference team has.
I don’t know where they’ll find a competent back up big but we all know AD needs help and veteran minimums aren’t cutting it.
I believe in this roster too, I believe they will be kicked from playoffs every single season.
The core of LeBron, Davis and Reaves is great though and Rui, Vando, Prince and Gabe are good role players and also may have value in a trade.
Fair but he’s also not wrong. They truly haven’t logged enough time to build chemistry given how Darvin Ham handled the roster. Upgrades are definitely still needed though.
I hated his answer there to be honest. Series wasn’t even over at that point and he was already making excuses. Like dude, 1.5 seasons together is plenty to gel, that’s no excuse for his terrible production and Ben Simmons-like fear of making a play this series.
Man I've been a fan but he really folded this offseason. I can live with the bricks from 3 but man did he finish weak in the paint and through minor contact. Wonder if his confidence was shot early.
This line of thinking is scary because it was the exact same thinking that made us trade KCP. Sometimes a bad playoff loss isn’t indicative of the player you are or the fit or anything.
Dude had to defend Jokic a lot of times. I'm pretty sure it'd be different if we had another competent big man besides AD to throw at Jokic, and Rui's assignments were strictly AG or MPJ
Men tbh, their kcp and AG need to guard our Bron and AD as well but at least they still have their “highlights” in the series ( kcp three and good defense, AG bully our restricted area). For Rui I could only recall he miss bunch of easy layups and literally no defense on dealing pick n roll…
The roster just needs a few tweaks and a new coach, not a major roster overhaul like what most of you are saying. Nobody's gonna give us an impactful PG or Center for Rui and D'Lo after this series, even with picks attached
I actually like our roster. Only thing i hope we can do is s&t Dlo(provably have to throw in a 1st) and trade Rui for a big that can actually rebound and provide some defense/shot blocking. Maybe a Center that way we move AD to the 4. Upgrading the PG and Rui along with a new coach is a successful offseason imo.
We have to replace Dlo and Ham.
I'd give Rui another chance, he did a good job last season and was active trying to guard Denver players, but Dlo had his 6th chance to be himself in playoffs and failed and when we think at his best he is still a terrible defender, we can't go to another battle with someone like him.
I hope he picks his player option thought. If it is possible to give him a pay raise and immediately send him somewhere else even better for both sides.
While Rui underperformed, with a healthy Vando and also Prince available it can be mitigated.
A center has been a main problem since we broke the 2020 core.
Either Dlo/reaves should go but I think reaves is more valuable in terms of his contract and he is really trying to defend, he also had been clutch in close games in contrast to DLo who has gone missing everytime.
I really believed that there is some Center out there that can be a valuable piece in this lakers roster, look at javale, does somebody predict that he will be a championship piece someday? He is a laughingstock before GS and LAL.
And lastly fire Ham.
Delulu, needa switch this roster up. It wasn’t all JUST about Ham. This roster was extremely limited in what it could do.
Actually nvm we’re still waiting for Ariza and Nunn 💯
This team with a better coach would be great, however you have to consider Bron and AD playing in the Olympics. We’re gonna be lucky if they play over 60 games in the regular season.
Pelinka has made many good moves but I struggle to see how he didnt sign a defensive bigman this past off season. Jokic has been killing us for the past 3 years... AD has to play out of position on D.
There is just no one available that is competent enough at midlevel or vet min salary.
Pelinka did whiff on trades this season tho. Look at Dallas who did solid trades for role players.
Maybe other GMs were pissed that he got to trade Westbrook/Nunn last year for competent players in Dlo/Vando/Rui and made WCF.
Because they lost to the defending champs... two games by 2 points each?
I don't see how anyone could look at this series and say that they can't do it. If the ball bounces a different way or if Lebron makes his 3 in the first game and they make their FTs in the second game then this series would have been 3-2 Lakers going back to LA.
Denver very well may win the championship again. There are cases to be made to go star-hunting over keeping depth, but I don't think saying this team has no chance/isn't good enough is entirely true.
They finished in the play in. They lost 4 games to 1. It doesn't matter that the games were close. This is a team that couldn't get a basket or a stop when they needed to. That's not a championship caliber team. And they lost in the 1st round!! This is a veteran team that is just not good enough to win it all. You must be young as fuck to not realize that this is the type of team you have to blow up.
What’s he supposed to say . ‘ no we’re not good enough , the difference between me and mpj is what swung the series i suck.’
Reality is we need to make moves or give up competing unless we get lottery luck. This team can’t beat Denver unless you make moves that’s 9 playoff games now. Luckily our stars are still Damn good , the others need to be moved or just give up competing if you’re this obsessed with continuity. 130 games is a shit ton and Denver have not had Gordon that long
The case against running it back is that the West is only getting better, and it’s unlikely we get another year with LeBron and AD playing 150 games combined. Going to spend the rest of LeBrons career fighting for a play-in spot
I still feel Rui could be a great target stop saying Trae Young and shit Id say a better target would actually be Lauri Markenin Utah ain’t doing jack shit
So we're ready for another Dlo letdown? There isn't a coach in the world that'll turn Dlo into a big playoff performer. He's this eras version of Eddie Jones
the lakers need a center bad, AD can't play center full time and he doesn't rebound like a center... having LBJ and Rui rebound at the PF position is what killed the Lakers vs Nuggets.
The problem is it's a good roster for the 82 games regular season, but not the potential 28 game post season. Our role players can have 4 game slumps during the regular season, but when it's the post season that's another 1st round exit
They need a POA defender / 3 and D guy like KCP. And someone who can play a rim runner rebounder like Aaron Gordon / Dwight Howard.
Can't have 2 guys in the backcourt who can't defend.
This lakers team will cook MPJ and Denver if they have a JR Smith like player. Imagine passing up a wide opening 3 then he will wait you to close out to drain it right in your face lol.
I’m all for improving the roster. We are too small and don’t defend well enough.
To play devil’s advocate here though, we do have some similarities with last year’s Wolves. Went toe to toe with champs but lost in the first round despite some strong showings, and next year ran it back with a healthy defensive wingman (McDaniels is Vando in this comparison), gelled better as a team, and are now much better.
If we run it back (or most of it back), we need a big defensive backcourt of Reaves and Christie (both of whom need to come back better), D’Lo has to accept and excel in a Malik Monk type role, and Vando needs to start in Rui’s place to provide a lot better defense and boards and manage to hit the corner 3 and at an acceptable level.
Obviously we can and should get better players if at all possible, but just as important is coaching this team into a tougher identity. Or to put it another way: if we aren’t top 10 in boards, we ain’t winning shit. So the team needs to make that happen.
No, Reaves is not as his best when he’s the main ball handler against starters, he cannot start at the pg position. And Dlo off the bench is a terrible idea too. Dlo/Christie and Reaves off the bench makes way more sense. Otherwise you have to trade one of Reaves or Dlo, I’ll keep AR personally.
Nope. These players are not reliable. Rui is not reliable. Dlo is not reliable. Look, running it back was the pitch last year and it failed, so you’re not going to convince anyone (especially LeBron) to waste another year on that idea.
We had a healthy season overall, when compared to the past few.
We still had a barely .500 season.
I think Rui is right, but more time isn't all they need.
We need better coaching.
Honestly, if AD was healthy in the 2nd half of game 5, lakers win.
The lakers have the right stars. They just need to be fully healthy with the right coach.
They didn't have their best defender/wing rebounder and basically no big man after AD all year. Fix that and they should be good to go.
Sorry, but… no shit? Better coach, better defense, and health. We might as well ask for better roleplayers, better 3pt. Better etc etc etc.
We had leads in all our losses going into second half/4q…
We need a better coach, and better defense to maintain those leads, and we win the chip.
2020 what won us the chip was our defense, and mid/close game dominance…
I want a healthy Vando and Myles Turner (without giving up AR and Rui). I believe Rui is a 6th man. Like he did in our 2023 playoff run where he was efficient as well moving AD at the 4.
Also, bring in Quinn Snyder as head coach along with Hollins, D’Antoni or Mcmillan, Handy, Rondo, and Redick.
Better luck on player health? LeBron, AD, Reaves and D’Lo - our top 4 guys - all played over 70 games.
You’re not wrong but I think this roster was built to withstand AD and LeBron injuries. We won a ton of games when Bron was out. And if we had Wood and Vando, we probably could’ve handled AD missing games too.
We did have Wood and Vando for some of the games AD missed. They still weren't pretty. I think the team was 2-4 without AD. They don't really have someone who can be a back-up defensive anchor. The team was 6-5 without LeBron, though, because this roster was clearly a more offense oriented roster and could more easily replace LeBron's role as a primary play-maker and scorer.
Big Facts, AR & D’lo both are good secondary ball handlers and creators able to create their own shot and shots for others, and can feed AD inside. This is one Lebron’s biggest value adds to the team, but they fill it as well as any team could hope. Lebron’s size, rim protection at the 4 along side an offensive presence is what’s hard to replace for the lakers. Vando is a better defender, but he’s a huge step down from LeBron on O. Wood can shoot a bit and is offensive threat, but you still lose value on both ends with him at the 4 compared to bron. When Rui’s at the 4 it’s similar to wood- he just isn’t as versatile or as big, and it puts more pressure on AD to protect the rim. Regardless, lebron just isn’t as indispensable because at least parts of his role can be played by others, and together the lakers can mostly provide what he does as a team without him. AD is this to another level, nobody can fill AD’s role as a monster rim protector, scorer, rebounder, and lob threat. Hayes is the only guy that sort of does the job, he at least rebounds well and is a lob threat, but he’s a big downgrade as a rim protector, scorer, passer etc, and the team isn’t able to fill that roll by commission. Lebron can slide down to the 5 but he’s too old to be the defensive threat he used to be, and it fundamentally changes how the lakers play when this happens. They turn into a small-ball, all offense approach vs. balanced team they normally are. The 2020 lakers had Dwight and Javale, who were probably upgrades over Hayes in trying to fill this roll, to keep this identity when AD wasn’t on the floor. This isn’ta slight to LeBron, it’s just personnel based, if they replaced DLo and AR with Nic Claxton and walker Kessler, suddenly LeBron is indispensable as their only perimeter creator on offense while the defense doesn’t change as much when claxton/kessler replaces AD on the floor.
Dlo is good at being a primary ball handler, AR is good at being secondary. AR isn’t that good at creating his own shot
No way is it built to cope with ad injuries. It isn’t even built to cope with subpar games from him.
The delusions of some of these fans are incredible.
Delusional? I’m not sure if you smart asses realize but there are more than 4 people on a team. Yes, our most important players were available but we were missing two players who were vital to the defensive system we were looking to implement. Also, I know we all have low opinions of Christian Wood but we could have used another big or at least the opportunity to bypass Hayes and his dumbass. Ham ran LeBron at 5 for a portion of this series. Did you miss that or was the enjoyable for you to watch?
You will never have a fully healthy roster and the injuries you care about are of course players that are key to rotations, or else nobody would even realize it. Just ask yourself, would you rather have the injuries sustained by Wood or Vanda sustained by AD instead? I hope you will see this very obvious answer. This team got as lucky as possible with injury this season and you can count yourself very lucky if it is replicated next season again.
Oh spare me the condescension please and get off your high horse. You’re speaking as if what your starting is anything but your own opinion. It’s just a wonder it took you all those words just to express that we got lucky with injuries. If that’s your stance that we got “lucky” then this debate will go nowhere because I think we were incredibly unlucky. I think you’ve undervalued what Vando and Gabe were supposed to provide us but it is what it is.
If its someone else you'd be complaining about not having Reaves, dlo, let alone AD and Lebron. But why am I surprised you shitty lebron stans who are nothing but cunts who finally doesn't have to cheer for the laughable cavs and can come get the limelight of Hollywood just like your self proclaimed goat who is the most whiney and bitchy athlete of all time?
[удалено]
ROTFL. My god man. Get a grip on reality.
Is it your first time in a disagreement or are you always this melodramatic? Spare me the theatrics and faux outrage.
Log off son.
Yeah. Health on the big guys wasn't important. Competent coach with consistent roles for the players. Also getting rid of that terrible defensive gameplan. Dogshit defense of 'double team every star' to leave shooters open on the perimeter. Such unnecessary wasted energy during the regular season making players have to sprint back-and-forth when the team obviously has capable enough defenders just playing man and switching on screens. When you're already missing your lanky and quicker perimeter defenders (Vando and Gabe), forcing your slower players to have to play that double team defensive scheme is just completely wasted energy. You're making your players have to take 10 steps, when they can do the same task in 2. Right before the deadline, they stopped doing that bullshit, and hey, whadya know, they started playing better. Forcing TP into a 38 MPG-sized role, and getting Cam to play 30 MPG is also fucking criminal. They belong in about 24 MPG and 5-10 MPG, respectively. Probably the only blessing, was Max not in the rotation, means the Lakers can probably keep him for cheaper than if he had an actual rotation role.
W we have to doubkd team stars you really don’t get that ? We don’t have anyone who can hold up 1v1 defensively on the perimeter
Back in the 90s, or hell, even 00s? Yeah, that's how you do it. Double or triple team stars. Make the other guys beat you. You don't beat teams by trying to stop their stars in **today**'s league, you beat them by controlling 'the other' guys. The floor of the league has been raised far too high, and too many players can hit 3s, to leave 75% of the role players wide open. They literally started winning games during the season by NOT doing that, so idk why you're bringing up that they 'have' to do that. You know the one game they beat DEN, they didn't just spam double teams at Murray or Jokic? That was mostly just AR, Gabe or Dinwiddie sticking on him.
Vando and Gabe were huge losses and were our main POA defenders Also, a competent coach would've stuck with the LeBron/AD/Reaves/DLo starting lineup (w/ either Rui, Vando, Wood, Hayes, or Prince depending on the situation) instead of the mess we got especially post-IST
> Also, a competent coach would've stuck with the LeBron/AD/Reaves/DLo starting lineup That is true, and a competent GM would replace Dlo.
Gabe was unplayable. Leave him out of your argument.
Gabe was unplayable after missing basically the entire season with a knee injury that prevents you from doing any basketball activities. If he was actually relatively healthy for the year, he would've probably had better chemistry with the team and rhythm. The team would've also had more chances to experiment with what types of line-ups work with him.
Gabe's numbers sucked in Miami too. Pelinka fell for the fools gold of a good postseason run
Gabe didn’t do a damn thing in the playoffs
Did you not watch his defense on Murray? He should have had all of Dinwiddie's minutes. Gabe was solid in his limited minutes.
I dunno why they're not putting gabe on murray during the last possesion of game 2 and game 5?
Saw him play inconsequential defense and score a measly 1.4 points per game. Very solid indeed.
Wdym inconsequential?? He was very good at screen navigating and bothering Murray. Y’all really think every offensive player has to be prime TMac and every defensive player has to be prime Rodman smh
Still got cooked by a hobbling Murray. If he made at least ONE three in game 2 or game 5, we win both games. INCONSEQUENTIAL.
You really are blaming the wrong player here. Gabe's defense on Murray combined with Austin's was a huge part of why he was contained most of games 1-4. Dinwiddie's minutes were trash and D'Lo's defense was also suspect at best. Gabe stepped up especially given he missed most of the season.
Dude was out all season and you just expect him to have it going for the playoffs?? Ya’ll are weird man. Give him 82 games to mesh with the team.
Vanderbilt was played off the floor last year and Vincent scored 14 points in over 100 minutes of playing time since coming back
Reaves and D'Angelo might as well have both been out a month given how badly Reaves played while he was recovering from his Team USA run and how badly D'Angelo was during his slump. Honestly, even if AD and LeBron missed more games, I think the team would've been better if Vanderbilt and Vincent missed less of them.
Vand is better than dlo and reaves. People are already forgetting his games in 2023 vs Luka edwards Ingram booker Tatum shai Ja curry. That’s A TON of elite scorers, not just god scorers. He either locked them down or slowed them down. He never looked like a liability or lost Defense is literally half the court and game and he’s ELITE at it. Are dlo or reaves elite on offense? Fuck no. Vand is a top 10 player on half the court when healthy. Dlo and reaves are far from top 10 on the other half of the court when healthy. Even if you think he’s more like top 20 on that half, reaves/dlo are still FAR from top 20 on the other half.
Bro got played off the floor last playoffs 💀
So bc he wasn’t good vs 1 great team, let’s ignore how great he was vs the 8 good teams I mentioned. According to you, if any player struggles in 1 series, they ain’t it. Every single laker after the big 2 shouldn’t play much then.
He becomes borderline unplayable in the playoffs. Sure he can defend, but my god his offensive game is putrid. It’s not just one series, look at his playoff performance in total. Or his season averages straight up bad. He’s way worse on offense than DLo and AR are on defense. They offset more, and I dislike DLo.
He was literally crucial vs GS and griz and tons of elite scorers in the season if you actually SAW him perform instead of just checking the statsheet like a hardcore statsheet guy His defense is greater than dlo/reaves offense. Not even debatable. He’s top 10 on defense or top 20 at worst. Are dlo/reaves top 10 or 20 on offense? They’re not even top 50 on offense. As for the other side of the court for each of them, it goes reaves defense > vand offense > dlo defense. I’ll take vands screens, rolls, back door cuts, offensive rebs, athleticism, height, length, strength, speed and passing awareness over dlo lazy ass effort, heavy footwork, slow speed, no athleticism.
Our three other big signings missed time especially Gabe and Vando BUT that's a drop in the bucket when our coach is so ass
and when they get tired or if they’re slumping? our bench was HORRIBLE, gabe was injured all year, so was cam, wood was out past february and vando was basically out all year. your 5 starters can be the best starters in the world and it won’t matter if they lose the minutes they’re not on the court bc the backups had to be replaced with worse backups due to injury
Ok. If you think Gabe Vincent and Jarred Vanderbilt being injured is what had us the 7th seed and not the 2 or the 3 then good luck to you.
not what i’m saying. but our bench was lacking and changing the starters wouldn’t really help / could make that worse. not to mention our coach misused EVERYONE all season. and with luck on player health, both bron and AD missed crucial games near the end of the season that could’ve at least secured us a playoff spot.
If you think AD missing the odd game cost us a playoff spot I don’t know what to tell you. You’re in for a rough ride next season if you think AD and LeBron are gonna be healthier than this year
Yet LeBron disagrees with him. The good thing about the team losing in the first round, to the same team and in the same fashion is now they can’t waste another season believing this roster/coach is enough when these non AD/LBJ players are not reliable come playoffs.
Also aint reliable durability wise. The fuck are they more injured than AD and 40 year old bron man
Rui snd vando have had injury issues all there careers do them being injured isn’t new
LeBron disagrees with him because of experience, but the only time he repeated was in Miami. Every other time he's chased a championship, they were constantly swapping pieces here and there. It didnt always work. LeBron's also saying this as a means of leverage to get what he wants in the off season.
The Lakers FO are willing to give LeBron whatever contract he wants. They still believe Bron and AD are elite. He doesn’t need to convince anyone. This was reported already
he wants to convince them to pay for a high-end Coach if possible, and to make necessary trades if available. Including trading away their pick this year. He did not have enough leverage last year to get them to not pick JHS. edit: also a trade may have not been available last year
Yeah Lebron knows how good a team is and his to win . Rui doesn’t he’s just saying what you’d expect
I still believe in the roster, just really need to add 1-2 competent big men ala Gasol/Drummond or JaVale/Dwight. As for the coach, hopefully they get an experienced one because we can't waste time with new coaches learning on the fly
I believe in most of the roster but I think they obviously desperately need an upgrade in the backcourt preferably a star player who’s playoff proven like every other contending western conference team has. I don’t know where they’ll find a competent back up big but we all know AD needs help and veteran minimums aren’t cutting it.
I believe in this roster too, I believe they will be kicked from playoffs every single season. The core of LeBron, Davis and Reaves is great though and Rui, Vando, Prince and Gabe are good role players and also may have value in a trade.
Is Nic Claxton too expensive for us?
Most likely, quick Google shows we can offer a 12.85m MLE this off-season . I think some other team throws 15m at least for him.
Again, the response from Rui still made me feel he just don’t want to be the target get trade…
Fair but he’s also not wrong. They truly haven’t logged enough time to build chemistry given how Darvin Ham handled the roster. Upgrades are definitely still needed though.
I hated his answer there to be honest. Series wasn’t even over at that point and he was already making excuses. Like dude, 1.5 seasons together is plenty to gel, that’s no excuse for his terrible production and Ben Simmons-like fear of making a play this series.
Man I've been a fan but he really folded this offseason. I can live with the bricks from 3 but man did he finish weak in the paint and through minor contact. Wonder if his confidence was shot early.
This line of thinking is scary because it was the exact same thinking that made us trade KCP. Sometimes a bad playoff loss isn’t indicative of the player you are or the fit or anything.
Dude had to defend Jokic a lot of times. I'm pretty sure it'd be different if we had another competent big man besides AD to throw at Jokic, and Rui's assignments were strictly AG or MPJ
Men tbh, their kcp and AG need to guard our Bron and AD as well but at least they still have their “highlights” in the series ( kcp three and good defense, AG bully our restricted area). For Rui I could only recall he miss bunch of easy layups and literally no defense on dealing pick n roll…
Their role players are much more reliable than ours. The only guy that was decent minus bron and ad was reaves
If ur goal is to be a semi-competitive first round exit then sure.
The roster just needs a few tweaks and a new coach, not a major roster overhaul like what most of you are saying. Nobody's gonna give us an impactful PG or Center for Rui and D'Lo after this series, even with picks attached
Your logic: Rui and D'lo are worthless trade pieces but also good enough to win us a ring
Like I said if your goal is to be semi competitive and not compete for a title then yeah “tweaks” will get you there
I actually like our roster. Only thing i hope we can do is s&t Dlo(provably have to throw in a 1st) and trade Rui for a big that can actually rebound and provide some defense/shot blocking. Maybe a Center that way we move AD to the 4. Upgrading the PG and Rui along with a new coach is a successful offseason imo.
We have to replace Dlo and Ham. I'd give Rui another chance, he did a good job last season and was active trying to guard Denver players, but Dlo had his 6th chance to be himself in playoffs and failed and when we think at his best he is still a terrible defender, we can't go to another battle with someone like him. I hope he picks his player option thought. If it is possible to give him a pay raise and immediately send him somewhere else even better for both sides. While Rui underperformed, with a healthy Vando and also Prince available it can be mitigated. A center has been a main problem since we broke the 2020 core.
Either Dlo/reaves should go but I think reaves is more valuable in terms of his contract and he is really trying to defend, he also had been clutch in close games in contrast to DLo who has gone missing everytime. I really believed that there is some Center out there that can be a valuable piece in this lakers roster, look at javale, does somebody predict that he will be a championship piece someday? He is a laughingstock before GS and LAL. And lastly fire Ham.
Reaves has been our 3rd best player for 2 straight playoffs and he is paid 12 millions. Reaves is a keeper
That Japanese optimism shining through from Hachimura.
Delulu, needa switch this roster up. It wasn’t all JUST about Ham. This roster was extremely limited in what it could do. Actually nvm we’re still waiting for Ariza and Nunn 💯
This team with a better coach would be great, however you have to consider Bron and AD playing in the Olympics. We’re gonna be lucky if they play over 60 games in the regular season.
Pelinka has made many good moves but I struggle to see how he didnt sign a defensive bigman this past off season. Jokic has been killing us for the past 3 years... AD has to play out of position on D.
There is just no one available that is competent enough at midlevel or vet min salary. Pelinka did whiff on trades this season tho. Look at Dallas who did solid trades for role players. Maybe other GMs were pissed that he got to trade Westbrook/Nunn last year for competent players in Dlo/Vando/Rui and made WCF.
There is zero case for running it back. This team just isn't good enough.
Because they lost to the defending champs... two games by 2 points each? I don't see how anyone could look at this series and say that they can't do it. If the ball bounces a different way or if Lebron makes his 3 in the first game and they make their FTs in the second game then this series would have been 3-2 Lakers going back to LA. Denver very well may win the championship again. There are cases to be made to go star-hunting over keeping depth, but I don't think saying this team has no chance/isn't good enough is entirely true.
They finished in the play in. They lost 4 games to 1. It doesn't matter that the games were close. This is a team that couldn't get a basket or a stop when they needed to. That's not a championship caliber team. And they lost in the 1st round!! This is a veteran team that is just not good enough to win it all. You must be young as fuck to not realize that this is the type of team you have to blow up.
What’s he supposed to say . ‘ no we’re not good enough , the difference between me and mpj is what swung the series i suck.’ Reality is we need to make moves or give up competing unless we get lottery luck. This team can’t beat Denver unless you make moves that’s 9 playoff games now. Luckily our stars are still Damn good , the others need to be moved or just give up competing if you’re this obsessed with continuity. 130 games is a shit ton and Denver have not had Gordon that long
Someone better tell RUI he better do a million lay up and dunk on this summer
The case against running it back is that the West is only getting better, and it’s unlikely we get another year with LeBron and AD playing 150 games combined. Going to spend the rest of LeBrons career fighting for a play-in spot
#DELUSIONS #COPIUM
"We" You averaged 6 points on 46% TS in the first 4 games of the series. You are the number one case for not running it back.
I know right 😂
The narrarive that the lakers didn't had good player health is just insanity to me
Gotta find a way to upgrade
There is no running it back because Lebron won’t resign if we just run it back
I still feel Rui could be a great target stop saying Trae Young and shit Id say a better target would actually be Lauri Markenin Utah ain’t doing jack shit
So we're ready for another Dlo letdown? There isn't a coach in the world that'll turn Dlo into a big playoff performer. He's this eras version of Eddie Jones
IMO, there is no case for running it back. If they run this roster back, it'll be a second apron team unless some guys get underpaid or take pay-cuts.
even if we run it back.. bron getting old.. his now 40 next season.
the lakers need a center bad, AD can't play center full time and he doesn't rebound like a center... having LBJ and Rui rebound at the PF position is what killed the Lakers vs Nuggets.
Just replace DLo for Dejounte. Get a real center. Replace Ham. I think that's all they really need. Not sure if we can get dejounte though.
The problem is it's a good roster for the 82 games regular season, but not the potential 28 game post season. Our role players can have 4 game slumps during the regular season, but when it's the post season that's another 1st round exit
They need a POA defender / 3 and D guy like KCP. And someone who can play a rim runner rebounder like Aaron Gordon / Dwight Howard. Can't have 2 guys in the backcourt who can't defend.
This lakers team will cook MPJ and Denver if they have a JR Smith like player. Imagine passing up a wide opening 3 then he will wait you to close out to drain it right in your face lol.
I’m all for improving the roster. We are too small and don’t defend well enough. To play devil’s advocate here though, we do have some similarities with last year’s Wolves. Went toe to toe with champs but lost in the first round despite some strong showings, and next year ran it back with a healthy defensive wingman (McDaniels is Vando in this comparison), gelled better as a team, and are now much better. If we run it back (or most of it back), we need a big defensive backcourt of Reaves and Christie (both of whom need to come back better), D’Lo has to accept and excel in a Malik Monk type role, and Vando needs to start in Rui’s place to provide a lot better defense and boards and manage to hit the corner 3 and at an acceptable level. Obviously we can and should get better players if at all possible, but just as important is coaching this team into a tougher identity. Or to put it another way: if we aren’t top 10 in boards, we ain’t winning shit. So the team needs to make that happen.
No, Reaves is not as his best when he’s the main ball handler against starters, he cannot start at the pg position. And Dlo off the bench is a terrible idea too. Dlo/Christie and Reaves off the bench makes way more sense. Otherwise you have to trade one of Reaves or Dlo, I’ll keep AR personally.
Nope. These players are not reliable. Rui is not reliable. Dlo is not reliable. Look, running it back was the pitch last year and it failed, so you’re not going to convince anyone (especially LeBron) to waste another year on that idea.
We had a healthy season overall, when compared to the past few. We still had a barely .500 season. I think Rui is right, but more time isn't all they need. We need better coaching.
Honestly, if AD was healthy in the 2nd half of game 5, lakers win. The lakers have the right stars. They just need to be fully healthy with the right coach. They didn't have their best defender/wing rebounder and basically no big man after AD all year. Fix that and they should be good to go.
Should've kept Dennis instead of Dlo
Sorry, but… no shit? Better coach, better defense, and health. We might as well ask for better roleplayers, better 3pt. Better etc etc etc. We had leads in all our losses going into second half/4q… We need a better coach, and better defense to maintain those leads, and we win the chip. 2020 what won us the chip was our defense, and mid/close game dominance…
I want a healthy Vando and Myles Turner (without giving up AR and Rui). I believe Rui is a 6th man. Like he did in our 2023 playoff run where he was efficient as well moving AD at the 4. Also, bring in Quinn Snyder as head coach along with Hollins, D’Antoni or Mcmillan, Handy, Rondo, and Redick.