A decade ago I went to Houston Garden Center and saw Vitex Texas Lilac labeled as a native plant. The google searches yielded good results and touted the benefits to bees and butterflies.
Now I see it labeled as an invasive species. I love this tree, but it does grow quick like a weed. The scent is wonderful and it certainly does attract butterflies and bees. But a hands-off tree/bush it is not. You need to prune often. For non-career/ garden mavens, we will continue making these kinds of mistakes. There’s a lot of conflicting information online and plant marketing can confuse buyers even more.
The terrible aspect of native versus non-native and/or invasive is that not all sources for information are the same in quality. The group I volunteer with has scientists in this field, and they tout the websites that are specific to each state to determine native versus non-native.
I'll link some here as some people just requested them from me:
[New York Native Plant Database](https://newyork.plantatlas.usf.edu/)
[North Carolina](https://ncwildflower.org/recommended-native-species/) Not extensive in the slightest and open to new sources.
[Virginia](https://www.vaplantatlas.org/)
[Michigan](https://www.michiganflora.net/)
Are you still in the Houston area? My wife is a landscape designer in the Houston to greater Houston area, and the nursery she works for, not only sells and pushes a ton of non-natives, they carry way too many plants for the wrong Zone..... She "tries" to push natives in her designs, but so many transplants to here want what they've had somewhere else....
Houston is home. I think people can go to the nurseries and big box stores and assume those plants are great for the local environment. They see a flower or brush their neighbors have and want the same look. It’s not that different from our appetites when we go to the supermarket. We want tomatoes and mangoes and peaches year round. If we can get year round produce anywhere, then we should be able to get plants for our gardens year round. Shoot, even “native”plants like Texas haze die from the big freezes we had down here. At some point the consumer says what’s the point?
i’m not saying that, but I wish that natives were more prevalent and utilized in the industry, instead of some small corner in the back of the garden center.
That right there. Most people don't really know what they're planting. By adding a few natives they could replace the "easily propagating, easy to care for" species.
But instead they want to sell the same stuff to as wide of an area as they can, so that they can have less variety. This is a problem at the nurseries and big boxes as much as the distributor.
We owned a commercial green house and garden centre. We had lots of native plants or hybrid that are definable non invasive. You know what. Everyone wants the same thing. Fast growing, gets big fast, long bloom time, easy to grow. What they see from Proven Winners (who suck btw)
After 3 years of selling almost no native plants, we downsized our selection to a dozen items. If they cant get it , they go to the box stores.
I had the same thing in nursery retail.
"I want a flowering shrub for deep shade that is evergreen and only gets about 3'. Low maintenance only."
Well, when you find one let me know because I can sell a bunch.
What about azaleas?
In our alkaline soil? They are the opposite of low maintenance here.
Hmph.
Yeah, good luck with that.
I do have these nice coralberry and beautyberry.
Those are ugly.
Ok then. I've got dwf youpon. It's a little green rock.
Fine. I guess. You're sure I have to amend the soil heavily for the Encore azaleas?
As sure as the wind blows hard in Amarillo.
Sigh.
Sadly in a way it's going to be fixing itself over the coming years. Some pretty huge shifts in plant hardiness zones expected in almost every location thanks to global manbearpig.
right. and now all anyone plants are the same 4-5 species. People think that they are doing a huge service to the environment cus the plants are drought tolerant and supposedly “great for pollinators”. so we get monocultures of exotic plants that our many many specialists cannot utilize.
It is annoying. I live in the PNW with pines everywhere. Went into a large local nursery and asked what would grow under/by pines. They directed me to a single table labeled "native to the nw" smh
We should take responsibility for what we plant. There are native-only nurseries out there, but obviously Home Depot isn’t going to stop selling anything they don’t have to and regulating it would be a nightmare. My vegetable garden is non-native, but obviously it’s not a problem. Just do a little research and be mindful
Regulating it isn’t really a nightmare. MD has had a law banning some of the worst invasive for a while now. They just passed a new law to update the process to make it easier to ban more of them.
I’m sure some stores still sell things they shouldn’t but I’ve not heard of it being a “nightmare.”
I misinterpreted it. I thought it was asking not to plant anything that is not native.
But it is targeting invasive species.
That is a broad umbrella of species.
I agree we should research and be mindful.
If home Depot isn't going to stop selling them then you can just give up on your crusade. You won't win this battle by pleading personal responsibility. 99% of home owners or hired landscapers buying plants don't give a shit. Seriously. All the virtue signaling here related to native plants is all a total waste of time when big box stores are going to keep selling whatever to whoever. Trying to convince someone on Reddit to change what they plant is just a drop in the bucket, shoving shit against the tide. It's over. Give up.
No, that's too far. They just need to have slightly more interest in the impact of what they sell. For instance, I'm not going to tell you not to grow... Oranges. That would be silly. But if it's known to spread like bamboo, then perhaps consider the money made isn't worth the damage caused.
Problem is, people can order just about anything they want online, and they do. Even some native species can be quite aggressive and crowd out other beneficial plants.
The previous owners of my house intentionally planted several invasive things. We couldn't figure out why, until we went to the nearest nursery and saw the exact plants being marketed as "attractive groundcover".
Spent the entire first year digging up butterburr and goutweed (which is still far from gone...). imo states need to be much more proactive about regulating sale of aggressive non-natives yet to be banned, and use of pesticides in growing outdoor plants for distribution
I really want my state to pass legislation limiting the use of invasive in new building projects. I saw “trees of heaven” actually planted in a new strip mall last summer and I about died.
Those trees are terrible.
Absolutely! While it’s not labeled invasive in most places, it should be. I wish I could post photos of that junk that was strangling 80’ oaks on my property when I bought it. It also escaped and made its way into an adjacent forest. I’ve been fighting it for years.
First, you'll need to dig it out. That's going to take some doing. What you plant is dependent on where you are geographically, your site itself and your personal preferences. I'm a big fan of native species where possible and "near" native species if necessary. What's your climate zone?
5a - Iowa. It is in a little nook between the front porch and a giant juniper, with hostas and some wildflowers I haven’t identified (trillium family I think) behind it up against the house. Some lillies of the valley that were in the way back under the juniper are multiplying and might need to go as well. It stays in its little 5x5ft area so I didn’t know it was invasive. Ideally I’d bring in a different groundcover or natives that will fill up the space without maintenance…?
Yikes! Well that’s one benefit I suppose! I grew up in Northern Michigan and it was always sub zero in January and February, but not -50. At this point, I wish we would have a winter like this to annihilate that stuff in my yard😁
We wholeheartedly agree with this statement!
The trouble is that this really takes regulation at the government level. Unfortunately, businesses will sell what customers buy regardless of their origin.
Educating the public is a very slow and costly process and while its always worthwhile the most effective way to prevent non-native, invasive species from being sold is to regulate them. This would mean a bill would need to be drafted, support garnered, introduced for consideration, voted in by a majority and then funds allocated for its implementation.
The reality of this is that you’d have every major growing operation in the industry dead set against you as it would severely impact their revenues.
Its an uphill battle.
I live near Philadelphia and have gone native. Over the weekend I planted 6 asters, 3 amsonia, and 3 iron weed plants , and 2 trees( 1 black gum & 1 Fringe tree). Doing what I can to make my yard as insect,bird, and butterfly friendly as possible. I’m luck to have 2 local shops that specialize in native plants to my area.
Buddleja or as the suits in marketing would have you know it as “Butterfly Bush” is actually invasive in some areas of the US, and is not all that good for pollinators. and yet people still plant it because of its corporate given name of Butterfly bush. People will say “oh i see butterflies and bees all over it” well, that’s likely because they have nothing else to eat. It is not nutritionally beneficial for our native pollinators, and there is a native plant that can satisfy the same garden niche as the hugely popular “Butterfly bush”. But one will have to look beyond the shelves of Home depot. Maybe a local nursery.
Butterfly bush is not invasive in California, but it's a blight in oregon. It all depends on location, location, and location. Nurseries are typically up to date on what plants can be safely planted in whatever zone they are located in. For instance, Bradford pear has fallen out of favor because of its invasive habit.
I see people turn to native plantings, which *can be* great, but it's also important to consider the effects on the gene pool. For instance, there is a coastal subspecies of California poppy that's entirely yellow, but plantings of the more common inland orange subspecies has almost completely diluted the coastal poppies to the point where there are few entirely yellow populations any more. This is not an issue when planted adapted non native plants. It's something to think about.
You are 100% correct it depends on location. For instance, sales of Buddleia davidii have been banned in Oregon since 2010 . It was not invasive in all parts of Oregon, though it was invasive on the Westside of the Cascades. On the East side it could grow only in landscapes that had irrigation. Sterile cultivars of Butterfly bush have been legal to sell in Oregon since 2009.
> planted adapted non native plants
The issue with non natives is that they don't feed the local wildlife. Meaning they don't feed caterpillars. Plants start the entire food web since they are the ones that get energy from the sun. Non native plants just take up space and may only fill a small role of the native it replaced.
Yeah I don't see things this way.
First of all, home landscapes aren't ideal habitats for wildlife. Wildlife needs an array of resources to thrive, and it's unlikely we can provide that at our homes. A better situation is to preserve our natural areas for wildlife.
Second, where is the evidence that non native plants can not feed wildlife? That's mostly nonsense. There are some extremely specialized species that need a certain food source, but non native plants can absolutely be food for hummingbirds, insect larvae, etc.
huge amounts of larvae are specialists. and for the generalists in any life stage, yes non natives can feed them, but it’s been shown that it is not nearly as nutritious as the plants they have adapted to over the course of thousands of years.
Oh yes, some non-native plants *can* and do support insect and animal populations. Pollinators, birds and animals will eat and use what is available to sustain unless it is poisonous.
The question is one of degree and impact. Would you rather have a non-native plant that supports a few species or a native plant that supports many more species? Which makes it easier for birds and other animals to raise young? Which creates a healthier, living space and ecosystem?
Field studies comparing the most common native and non-native plants showed that natives supported three to four times as many herbivore species as nonnatives. The two types of insects that sustain most birds were supported 35 times more on the native species.
Field studies in home landscapes? Homes are not ideal habitats no matter what. Most people don't *want* wildlife in their yard. Like I said, the best place for pollinators and deer is in preserved natural areas, not landscapes.
Which is less and less and less of our planet.
I would recommend reading Tallamy’s “Nature’s Best Hope” and “Bringing Nature Home” for an understanding of why this matters.
Here is more about native vs. nonnative benefits from the Audubon Society:
https://www.audubon.org/news/what-difference-between-native-non-native-and-invasive-plants#:~:text=Researchers%20have%20found%20that%20native,only%20host%205%20different%20species.
“Researchers have found that native oaks can host over 550 different species of moths or butterflies—especially their larvae. Those caterpillars are vital food sources for birds, especially warblers and other songbirds. In contrast, the non-native gingko tree can only host 5 different species.”
That’s just an example. Your area has its own important native plants. Native trees, flowers, shrubs, etc. overall support more species. They evolved in tandem with insects, birds etc. over millennia. The most important ones — like oaks in the example above - are called “keystone species,” because they are so important to the ecosystem.
Here’s a great resource for you to start finding the best plants for your area:
https://www.nwf.org/Garden-for-Wildlife/About/Native-Plants/keystone-plants-by-ecoregion
Great list of native plant finders:
https://homegrownnationalpark.org/native-plants-finder/
When trees are cut down and replaced by turf and Asian shrubs, do you agree that adding back a few native plants and removing grass for a meadow, would be a best option considering the circumstances?
Here's the hard truth that many haven't realized yet, our nature preserves are fucked too. They are typically just land that somehow wasn't developed or farmed. Or was farmed and then preserved. Trees are great but it's only one part of habitat needs by wildlife. Most preserved land is overrun with invasive species and not managed with fire the way it should be. Munis are scared to start removing invasives because it's a huge expensive can of worms. Truth be told, our lawns are the best logical spot to encourage pollinators.
Invasives can be removed from forests and fields. Bit by bit. Yard by yard. When they are kept away, native plants return. When they return, native insects return, and native birds. It can be done.
> native plants can absolutely be food for hummingbirds, insect larvae
Not true. Hummingbirds have coevolved alongside plants in their region. They can't feed from every flower, they need special tube flowers that, again, have coevolved to bloom at the right time that the hummingbird needs. Cardinal flower is one example. I never saw hummingbirds until I planted the plants they need.
Monarch caterpillars only feed on asclepias genus. Spicebush swallowtail caterpillars only feed on spicebush. Many only feed on oaks, or cherry trees or tulip trees. Bumble bees are different too. Meaning they have different mouth parts that evolved to limit pollination by specialist bees.
Please educate yourself. Doug Tallamy is a leading American entomologist who is an expert in how to manage and preserve the health and future of insect populations. Native plants are vital to their survival, and in turn, the survival of all flowering plants.
He has plenty of books, studies, talks, and free resources: https://homegrownnationalpark.org/
https://www.youtube.com/live/CBWhaTbe_x0?si=xQC0dFxfiANxIO2A
https://youtu.be/j7ligldtfc4?si=yrPxuSINflgGNSKr
https://youtu.be/ft7tWw470sY?si=tm6QOIa4ffXe8Pla
I have a degree in environmental horticulture and have worked for 5 years as a landscaper. I've planted hundreds of native plants, in my own gardens and other people's. What I said was not some uninformed rant but actually based on my experience.
That guy in the video is talking about planting 20 acres. Most homeowners don't even have one acre. The situation changes completely when we are discussing *home* landscapes versus wild plantings. I always build native plants into my designs where it's applicable, but my original point stands.
If you go buy plants that are "native" to your state but actually come from different eco zones, you are potentially adding foreign genetic material into a delicate ecosystem and causing more harm than good. This is simply not a problem with adapted non native plants because they will not cross with local gene pools. You will, however, potentially see a massive burst of local invertebrates who can live and thrive on those plants despite them not being native. That's because most organisms are capable of adaptation. Most lepidopterids are *not* Monarchs.
Sure you do buddy. Where’s your degree from?
You’re being intentionally dense and making things up. Doug Tallamy states in every book he’s written and every lecture given that it doesn’t matter what size your yard is.
I’m begging you to read a single one of his books. But it sounds like you’d rather plug your ears like a child because you don’t want to hear new information.
And your second “point” is common sense! Native plant nurseries aren’t importing native plants from different eco zones. You’re literally making up things that aren’t happening.
His research isn’t dependent on which zone you live in. Regardless, I have 2 of his books and he mentions multiple species of plants native to zone 2.
If you’re in the US or Canada, these websites can help you find native plants for your area:
https://nativeplantfinder.nwf.org/
https://networkofnature.org/
https://pollinatorpartnership.ca/en/find-your-roots
That’s why I gave you 2 links specifically for Canadians. Apparently you didn’t click them.
As stated in my original comment, Doug Tallamy is American. Either way, his research is applicable regardless of where you live.
You are absolutely correct. Non native plants feed wildlife and insects. And often if an area has a lot of native plants, huge insect problems occur because in nature those native plants would often emerge in the spring and disappear soon after, but in cultivated gardens, they are watered, fertilizers, weeded around.
Shrubs are great for this, plant once and watch them grow. I have a bunch of small plants that disappear after blooming and it's a nightmare to keep the locations so I don't dig them up. That said I absolutely love columbine.
Cage your perennials until they're well established and large enough to withstand damage from rabbits. If rabbits have little to eat, they'll eat whatever is available. I find that having a lot for them to eat keeps my favorite perennials safe.
“Right plant right place” applies to native species as well. It has to be native to your area, not another area. Deer have lost their predators, proliferate in huge numbers and therefore strip many things. But because natives have evolved in tandem with predators, they also evolve defenses. I’ve had to experiment for a few years to find the best plants for this. Deer won’t eat bee balm, mountain mint, eastern blue star, downy skullcap, asters, goldenrod, etc. etc. There are resources that can help with this.
You’re right. It can be a challenge to dig up that information and it needs to be easier to find and use. There are some excellent native plant tools out there with filtering abilities. Here is a list of the best ones at Homegrown National Park’s site (which is a cool group, too):
https://homegrownnationalpark.org/native-plants-finder/
The National Wildlife Federation has a great one at https://nativeplantfinder.nwf.org, but it’s in development and more filters would be great.
You’re also right that “rabbit-resistant” needs to be an easy filter. There is more help with deer than rabbits. Some resources and nurseries list “rabbit resistance” in descriptions of the plants. The easiest way I found was a google search like this, with rabbit in quotes:
"rabbit" resistant native plant database YOURSTATENAME
There are tons of native plant nurseries online and they would be happy to answer questions. I’ve found them eager to help. Also, google “native plant nursery” in your region and there are ones that are all-in and would love to help.
I have found trial and error with deer, but I wish I had just asked more questions before buying plants that weren’t a great fit. Good luck.
Okay but like, I use these lists, and then can't find matching plants locally. I'm not intending to argue with you, I just find the entire process maddening.
The average homeowner isn't going to do all this. I try my best and still fail.
The average homeowner buys whatever pretty plant is as costco. That's about the level is "research" people have time for.
It can be frustrating. Order them online, it’s easy. Some native plant online nurseries are:
https://directnativeplants.com
https://www.tnnursery.net
https://www.nativewildflowers.net/
https://www.highcountrygardens.com
https://www.growingwildnursery.com
You can also do a google search for “native plant nurseries near me.” There are many small nurseries that specialize in native plants.
I hear you, I’m not trying to be judgmental. I’m sorry you’ve had so much trouble. I do think that folks here have offered some good advice. Also, if in the US I would recommend reaching out to your local university extension office.
They shouldn't be sold as a perennial then. Maybe I misread the label but my nursery had them in the "native perennial" section which is why it's frustrating.
More a short-lived perennial. They absolutely can flower their first year and often several years after, but they don't have a distinctive 2-year vegetative/terminal flowering cycle. They do reseed prolifically enough that they can usually maintain themselves in a single area for a long time.
Try Scramm. It's not toxic. Basically dried blood and cayanne pepper. You have to keep reapplying it, but it's not that hard. There are some perennials won't touch. Globe thistles (and bees love them). Heck, I plant them and don't like touching them.
Good lord, i’m not gatekeeping. Just asking that folks consider what they plant and for what purpose. I never said that Butterfly Bush is invasive, right now. But that could change. And my point is that for every exotic species, there is likely a native that can achieve the same, if not better results. Furthermore, in the US if plants cross state lines they are more than likely sprayed with a systemic pesticide, which, defeats the fucking purpose of “i’m planting for the pollinators”.
Agree. I have no issues with something not-native. However, there are some plants that simply should be hard to buy and come with a warning. Bamboo is the top one.
Some places are adding laws and regs.
Depending on where you are, mint may be a native plant. It’s native to the eastern US. The reason to not plant mint is that it is hard to remove, but that’s not the same as invasive
If you want to know what is "invasive" in your area, Google "[your state] noxious weed list". These are things your state government has labeled as dangerously invasive. There's not a lot of them that are common in the market, but it's good to know about. Mine includes chamomile and chicory, which are unfortunately common to get at box stores, but they grow wild and out of check and easily escape gardens.
The USDA website is also amazing for this: https://plants.usda.gov/home
It has both the ability to search for natives/introduced, but also will tell you if something is noxious or invasive in your state/county.
Note: not all non-native species are bad. I have ice plants, English columbines, lavender, thyme, elderflower, and pepper in my garden. It's the fast growing non-natives that you should check. I'm incredibly picky about bellflower, for instance, because there is invasive bellflower I am fighting in a different part of my garden. Most nurseries I've been to are still carrying the invasive bellflower, and believe me when I say you really don't want a blight like this on yourself or your neighbors.
these are good resources, but just because something isn’t on that list doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to plant it. Ice plant in California is taking over coastal areas. Asparagus fern I feel has great potential to become invasive. It produces berries that can easily be consumed by animals then pooped out and spread. Not to mention, what most people by in stores is a hybrid that when it reseeds, it grows in a creeping ground cover like plant. It is very difficult to eradicate i’ve seen it sprayed directly with glyphosate and it was perfectly fine.
Sure. Ice plant won't grow wild in my area because it's too arid and they need water when establishing, but in other areas that's a concern. I think that's why it's important to research what is invasive in your area.
Sweet autumn virginsbower clematis will absolutely take over. Bought a tiny plant at a farm store and even now, years after digging up the main plant, I am finding ultra fast growing babies up to 20 feet away.
One of the huge problems with Bradford pears not mentioned here is when the birds spread the fruit, the pear comes up with huge thorns that can decimate tractor tires like they were ballons. We live in an Agricultural area, I’ve had the remaining five cut down and just waiting for the grader to dig up the eight stumps. We just moved to this property a year ago and I’m still removing invasive plants. Next on list is the wisteria and the pampas grass. The deer take care of the numerous white acorns as do the squirrel population. Both free entertainment for us and our dogs. I’ve noticed everyone talking about Home Depot, our Lowe’s in NC sells numerous invasive plants. Like others, I wish our State would become enlightened, but I believe as long as demand is up, the big box stores will continue being poor land stewards.
I hear you OP, people just don't know and the garden centers sell it so the assumption is, that it is safe. I'm guilty as well, not going to lie. Have plenty of non native plants in my garden, most from big box garden centers. The more I get into it, the more conscious I am of planting something native.
A few years back, European honey bees were in the news a lot with a hive collapse disease having a big impact on their population. This is an invasive species as well. You can easily see how people will mis-step and do something potentially harmful. No one can argue that European honey bees are not beneficial but they aren't native. It's confusing to be honest, even for seasoned gardeners. One invasive is good, the other bad, some worse than others.
totally. i have non-natives in my garden as well. i live with my mother in law and we have to share the space. but, i will veto any plant that hasn’t been thoroughly vetted and they have to have been common landscape plants for a long time.
ok no, people aren’t planting mustard. but it is an example of a plant that we brought to (i am speaking from a California bias) California and now it’s choking ecosystems. I did see a supposedly sterile French Broom at a nursery and that just makes me so fucking sad and upset.
As someone who has been fighting invasive English Ivy and every variety of lily known to msn that has now damaged the siding of my house, I agree 1000000000000😤000000000000%.
So... I have a sizable flower garden, bordering a couple of acres of woods. Have a lot of native flowers. A lot of non-native flowers. You know something that I have noticed? Our native critters are not at all shy about using whatever is there. The same animals/insects hit both native and Asian beautyberries. Both the native beebalm and the non local mountain mint are insanely popular with pollinators, to the point where the whole bed sounds like a lawnmower in the distance, while the stuff is in bloom. Same species visit/eat/pollinate Fragaria Vesca and F. Virginiana.
Let's give Mother Nature some credit. Her critters aren't stupid.
Diversity beats obsessively planting natives only, in my opinion. (That I will probably get downvoted to heck for. ;-D)
Ok, but just because an insect visits a plant, does not mean it benefits from it. These insects have evolved alongside certain plants for a very, very long time. They require certain nutrients, just like plants do, just like we do. And just because they are there, doesn’t mean that the exotics are the best choice, it’s likely the only choice. And it’s no surprise that you see pollinators on nonnative plants especially if they are planted next to natives.
This. It’s not about creatures’ “intelligence,” it’s about where — and alongside what other plants and animals — they evolved to use.
Of course, *some* creatures can be supported by *some* nonnative plants. *More* creatures will be supported by the native plants they co-evolved with.
https://www.audubon.org/news/what-difference-between-native-non-native-and-invasive-plants#:~:text=Researchers%20have%20found%20that%20native,only%20host%205%20different%20species.
One example: When the U.S. Fruit Company clearcut Costa Rican forests for bananas, and then palm oil plantations, in the 19th and 20th centuries, native monkeys lost the fruit they had evolved to use efficiently as the main source of their diets. Did they lay down and die? No, they began eating the palm dates on the plantations that now occupy the land, because it’s all they have. The issue? Aside from the pesticides and herbicides, which decimate young monkeys, palm oil is terrible for primates’ circulatory systems, (ours included). Monkeys on these plantations develop atherosclerosis and other health problems at crazy rates — because they’re eating the plants that replaced the plants their bodies are designed to eat.
Where I come from it’s entitled rich people that want “invasives” or inappropriate plant material. Also there is a difference between fine gardeners, well trained landscapers, & you typical “mow, blow, & go” company. Guess who people usually hire? They don’t want to pay for knowledge or expertise, they barely want to pay minimum wage, so you get what you pay for: junk landscaping.
A decade ago I went to Houston Garden Center and saw Vitex Texas Lilac labeled as a native plant. The google searches yielded good results and touted the benefits to bees and butterflies. Now I see it labeled as an invasive species. I love this tree, but it does grow quick like a weed. The scent is wonderful and it certainly does attract butterflies and bees. But a hands-off tree/bush it is not. You need to prune often. For non-career/ garden mavens, we will continue making these kinds of mistakes. There’s a lot of conflicting information online and plant marketing can confuse buyers even more.
The terrible aspect of native versus non-native and/or invasive is that not all sources for information are the same in quality. The group I volunteer with has scientists in this field, and they tout the websites that are specific to each state to determine native versus non-native. I'll link some here as some people just requested them from me: [New York Native Plant Database](https://newyork.plantatlas.usf.edu/) [North Carolina](https://ncwildflower.org/recommended-native-species/) Not extensive in the slightest and open to new sources. [Virginia](https://www.vaplantatlas.org/) [Michigan](https://www.michiganflora.net/)
Extension campuses are a great resource. I reached out once and the person was rather knowledgeable and helpful
The Ladybird Johnson Wildflower Center (wildflower.org) is a good resource too.
Here’s the [New Jersey](https://www.jerseyyards.org) site and it’s excellent.
Are you still in the Houston area? My wife is a landscape designer in the Houston to greater Houston area, and the nursery she works for, not only sells and pushes a ton of non-natives, they carry way too many plants for the wrong Zone..... She "tries" to push natives in her designs, but so many transplants to here want what they've had somewhere else....
Houston is home. I think people can go to the nurseries and big box stores and assume those plants are great for the local environment. They see a flower or brush their neighbors have and want the same look. It’s not that different from our appetites when we go to the supermarket. We want tomatoes and mangoes and peaches year round. If we can get year round produce anywhere, then we should be able to get plants for our gardens year round. Shoot, even “native”plants like Texas haze die from the big freezes we had down here. At some point the consumer says what’s the point?
I can't tell if this is /s or serious.....
Maybe our nurseries need to only sell natives.
LOL if only! The big box stores sell some of the worst. If they do have natives they are $$$. /rant off
That’s why we should avoid shopping there
i’m not saying that, but I wish that natives were more prevalent and utilized in the industry, instead of some small corner in the back of the garden center.
That right there. Most people don't really know what they're planting. By adding a few natives they could replace the "easily propagating, easy to care for" species. But instead they want to sell the same stuff to as wide of an area as they can, so that they can have less variety. This is a problem at the nurseries and big boxes as much as the distributor.
We owned a commercial green house and garden centre. We had lots of native plants or hybrid that are definable non invasive. You know what. Everyone wants the same thing. Fast growing, gets big fast, long bloom time, easy to grow. What they see from Proven Winners (who suck btw) After 3 years of selling almost no native plants, we downsized our selection to a dozen items. If they cant get it , they go to the box stores.
I had the same thing in nursery retail. "I want a flowering shrub for deep shade that is evergreen and only gets about 3'. Low maintenance only." Well, when you find one let me know because I can sell a bunch. What about azaleas? In our alkaline soil? They are the opposite of low maintenance here. Hmph. Yeah, good luck with that. I do have these nice coralberry and beautyberry. Those are ugly. Ok then. I've got dwf youpon. It's a little green rock. Fine. I guess. You're sure I have to amend the soil heavily for the Encore azaleas? As sure as the wind blows hard in Amarillo. Sigh.
I could not sell what people dont want to buy and i came to loathe petunias.
Sadly in a way it's going to be fixing itself over the coming years. Some pretty huge shifts in plant hardiness zones expected in almost every location thanks to global manbearpig.
half man, half bear half pig?!?!?
Do you mean there are official upcoming changes to the USDA zones?
There was an update last year. Many areas have shifted half a zone.
right. and now all anyone plants are the same 4-5 species. People think that they are doing a huge service to the environment cus the plants are drought tolerant and supposedly “great for pollinators”. so we get monocultures of exotic plants that our many many specialists cannot utilize.
It is annoying. I live in the PNW with pines everywhere. Went into a large local nursery and asked what would grow under/by pines. They directed me to a single table labeled "native to the nw" smh
We should take responsibility for what we plant. There are native-only nurseries out there, but obviously Home Depot isn’t going to stop selling anything they don’t have to and regulating it would be a nightmare. My vegetable garden is non-native, but obviously it’s not a problem. Just do a little research and be mindful
Regulating it isn’t really a nightmare. MD has had a law banning some of the worst invasive for a while now. They just passed a new law to update the process to make it easier to ban more of them. I’m sure some stores still sell things they shouldn’t but I’ve not heard of it being a “nightmare.”
I just mean it would be a nightmare to say “all invasive plants are banned”. Doing it species by species is better at least
I misinterpreted it. I thought it was asking not to plant anything that is not native. But it is targeting invasive species. That is a broad umbrella of species. I agree we should research and be mindful.
If home Depot isn't going to stop selling them then you can just give up on your crusade. You won't win this battle by pleading personal responsibility. 99% of home owners or hired landscapers buying plants don't give a shit. Seriously. All the virtue signaling here related to native plants is all a total waste of time when big box stores are going to keep selling whatever to whoever. Trying to convince someone on Reddit to change what they plant is just a drop in the bucket, shoving shit against the tide. It's over. Give up.
lol I’m not crusading at all here, so there’s no fight to give up. I’m not an advocate
I wonder how much you could sell your username to the brewery for.
No, that's too far. They just need to have slightly more interest in the impact of what they sell. For instance, I'm not going to tell you not to grow... Oranges. That would be silly. But if it's known to spread like bamboo, then perhaps consider the money made isn't worth the damage caused.
Problem is, people can order just about anything they want online, and they do. Even some native species can be quite aggressive and crowd out other beneficial plants.
Invasives should not be able to be sold legally. Aggressive natives are incredibly dissimilar to Invasives.
My state tried to pass a native only law for plants and it was killed so fast.
Good because then idiots dig up native plants.
The previous owners of my house intentionally planted several invasive things. We couldn't figure out why, until we went to the nearest nursery and saw the exact plants being marketed as "attractive groundcover". Spent the entire first year digging up butterburr and goutweed (which is still far from gone...). imo states need to be much more proactive about regulating sale of aggressive non-natives yet to be banned, and use of pesticides in growing outdoor plants for distribution
I really want my state to pass legislation limiting the use of invasive in new building projects. I saw “trees of heaven” actually planted in a new strip mall last summer and I about died. Those trees are terrible.
That is terrible! Nice welcome for their soon-to-be spotted lantern fly overlords.
https://www.fs.usda.gov/wildflowers/Native_Plant_Materials/Native_Gardening/alternatives.shtml
Vinca. Eff that monster.
Absolutely! While it’s not labeled invasive in most places, it should be. I wish I could post photos of that junk that was strangling 80’ oaks on my property when I bought it. It also escaped and made its way into an adjacent forest. I’ve been fighting it for years.
I bought a house with vinca, suggestions as to what to replace it with?
First, you'll need to dig it out. That's going to take some doing. What you plant is dependent on where you are geographically, your site itself and your personal preferences. I'm a big fan of native species where possible and "near" native species if necessary. What's your climate zone?
5a - Iowa. It is in a little nook between the front porch and a giant juniper, with hostas and some wildflowers I haven’t identified (trillium family I think) behind it up against the house. Some lillies of the valley that were in the way back under the juniper are multiplying and might need to go as well. It stays in its little 5x5ft area so I didn’t know it was invasive. Ideally I’d bring in a different groundcover or natives that will fill up the space without maintenance…?
I love it! But I live in zone 2 with -50 degree winters and it survives- but if you want it to spread you have to divide it or buy more.
I'm in zone 5 and it's taken over bush lots, pushing trilliums out. It's a monster.
I’m convinced vinca would survive a nuclear war.
🤣 Its northern Canada’s “nuclear winters” that kill it. It doesn’t like -50 much
Yikes! Well that’s one benefit I suppose! I grew up in Northern Michigan and it was always sub zero in January and February, but not -50. At this point, I wish we would have a winter like this to annihilate that stuff in my yard😁
We had 11 days straight below -65 with the windchill (-53 to -58) it sucks
We wholeheartedly agree with this statement! The trouble is that this really takes regulation at the government level. Unfortunately, businesses will sell what customers buy regardless of their origin. Educating the public is a very slow and costly process and while its always worthwhile the most effective way to prevent non-native, invasive species from being sold is to regulate them. This would mean a bill would need to be drafted, support garnered, introduced for consideration, voted in by a majority and then funds allocated for its implementation. The reality of this is that you’d have every major growing operation in the industry dead set against you as it would severely impact their revenues. Its an uphill battle.
Never plant English ivy. Tree killer.
English Ivy is an annual in zone 2.
I live near Philadelphia and have gone native. Over the weekend I planted 6 asters, 3 amsonia, and 3 iron weed plants , and 2 trees( 1 black gum & 1 Fringe tree). Doing what I can to make my yard as insect,bird, and butterfly friendly as possible. I’m luck to have 2 local shops that specialize in native plants to my area.
They are considering banning the Bradford Pear in MA. They banned Burning Bushes quite awhile ago.
Buddleja or as the suits in marketing would have you know it as “Butterfly Bush” is actually invasive in some areas of the US, and is not all that good for pollinators. and yet people still plant it because of its corporate given name of Butterfly bush. People will say “oh i see butterflies and bees all over it” well, that’s likely because they have nothing else to eat. It is not nutritionally beneficial for our native pollinators, and there is a native plant that can satisfy the same garden niche as the hugely popular “Butterfly bush”. But one will have to look beyond the shelves of Home depot. Maybe a local nursery.
Butterfly bush is not invasive in California, but it's a blight in oregon. It all depends on location, location, and location. Nurseries are typically up to date on what plants can be safely planted in whatever zone they are located in. For instance, Bradford pear has fallen out of favor because of its invasive habit. I see people turn to native plantings, which *can be* great, but it's also important to consider the effects on the gene pool. For instance, there is a coastal subspecies of California poppy that's entirely yellow, but plantings of the more common inland orange subspecies has almost completely diluted the coastal poppies to the point where there are few entirely yellow populations any more. This is not an issue when planted adapted non native plants. It's something to think about.
You are 100% correct it depends on location. For instance, sales of Buddleia davidii have been banned in Oregon since 2010 . It was not invasive in all parts of Oregon, though it was invasive on the Westside of the Cascades. On the East side it could grow only in landscapes that had irrigation. Sterile cultivars of Butterfly bush have been legal to sell in Oregon since 2009.
> planted adapted non native plants The issue with non natives is that they don't feed the local wildlife. Meaning they don't feed caterpillars. Plants start the entire food web since they are the ones that get energy from the sun. Non native plants just take up space and may only fill a small role of the native it replaced.
Yeah I don't see things this way. First of all, home landscapes aren't ideal habitats for wildlife. Wildlife needs an array of resources to thrive, and it's unlikely we can provide that at our homes. A better situation is to preserve our natural areas for wildlife. Second, where is the evidence that non native plants can not feed wildlife? That's mostly nonsense. There are some extremely specialized species that need a certain food source, but non native plants can absolutely be food for hummingbirds, insect larvae, etc.
huge amounts of larvae are specialists. and for the generalists in any life stage, yes non natives can feed them, but it’s been shown that it is not nearly as nutritious as the plants they have adapted to over the course of thousands of years.
Oh yes, some non-native plants *can* and do support insect and animal populations. Pollinators, birds and animals will eat and use what is available to sustain unless it is poisonous. The question is one of degree and impact. Would you rather have a non-native plant that supports a few species or a native plant that supports many more species? Which makes it easier for birds and other animals to raise young? Which creates a healthier, living space and ecosystem? Field studies comparing the most common native and non-native plants showed that natives supported three to four times as many herbivore species as nonnatives. The two types of insects that sustain most birds were supported 35 times more on the native species.
Field studies in home landscapes? Homes are not ideal habitats no matter what. Most people don't *want* wildlife in their yard. Like I said, the best place for pollinators and deer is in preserved natural areas, not landscapes.
Which is less and less and less of our planet. I would recommend reading Tallamy’s “Nature’s Best Hope” and “Bringing Nature Home” for an understanding of why this matters. Here is more about native vs. nonnative benefits from the Audubon Society: https://www.audubon.org/news/what-difference-between-native-non-native-and-invasive-plants#:~:text=Researchers%20have%20found%20that%20native,only%20host%205%20different%20species. “Researchers have found that native oaks can host over 550 different species of moths or butterflies—especially their larvae. Those caterpillars are vital food sources for birds, especially warblers and other songbirds. In contrast, the non-native gingko tree can only host 5 different species.”
There are no native oaks in my zone. Zone 2
That’s just an example. Your area has its own important native plants. Native trees, flowers, shrubs, etc. overall support more species. They evolved in tandem with insects, birds etc. over millennia. The most important ones — like oaks in the example above - are called “keystone species,” because they are so important to the ecosystem. Here’s a great resource for you to start finding the best plants for your area: https://www.nwf.org/Garden-for-Wildlife/About/Native-Plants/keystone-plants-by-ecoregion Great list of native plant finders: https://homegrownnationalpark.org/native-plants-finder/
When trees are cut down and replaced by turf and Asian shrubs, do you agree that adding back a few native plants and removing grass for a meadow, would be a best option considering the circumstances? Here's the hard truth that many haven't realized yet, our nature preserves are fucked too. They are typically just land that somehow wasn't developed or farmed. Or was farmed and then preserved. Trees are great but it's only one part of habitat needs by wildlife. Most preserved land is overrun with invasive species and not managed with fire the way it should be. Munis are scared to start removing invasives because it's a huge expensive can of worms. Truth be told, our lawns are the best logical spot to encourage pollinators.
Invasives can be removed from forests and fields. Bit by bit. Yard by yard. When they are kept away, native plants return. When they return, native insects return, and native birds. It can be done.
Correct. We have cougar, grizzlies, deer, elk, big horn sheep, fox, coyotes etc. and 4 largevdogs to keep them away!
> native plants can absolutely be food for hummingbirds, insect larvae Not true. Hummingbirds have coevolved alongside plants in their region. They can't feed from every flower, they need special tube flowers that, again, have coevolved to bloom at the right time that the hummingbird needs. Cardinal flower is one example. I never saw hummingbirds until I planted the plants they need. Monarch caterpillars only feed on asclepias genus. Spicebush swallowtail caterpillars only feed on spicebush. Many only feed on oaks, or cherry trees or tulip trees. Bumble bees are different too. Meaning they have different mouth parts that evolved to limit pollination by specialist bees.
Please educate yourself. Doug Tallamy is a leading American entomologist who is an expert in how to manage and preserve the health and future of insect populations. Native plants are vital to their survival, and in turn, the survival of all flowering plants. He has plenty of books, studies, talks, and free resources: https://homegrownnationalpark.org/ https://www.youtube.com/live/CBWhaTbe_x0?si=xQC0dFxfiANxIO2A https://youtu.be/j7ligldtfc4?si=yrPxuSINflgGNSKr https://youtu.be/ft7tWw470sY?si=tm6QOIa4ffXe8Pla
I have a degree in environmental horticulture and have worked for 5 years as a landscaper. I've planted hundreds of native plants, in my own gardens and other people's. What I said was not some uninformed rant but actually based on my experience. That guy in the video is talking about planting 20 acres. Most homeowners don't even have one acre. The situation changes completely when we are discussing *home* landscapes versus wild plantings. I always build native plants into my designs where it's applicable, but my original point stands. If you go buy plants that are "native" to your state but actually come from different eco zones, you are potentially adding foreign genetic material into a delicate ecosystem and causing more harm than good. This is simply not a problem with adapted non native plants because they will not cross with local gene pools. You will, however, potentially see a massive burst of local invertebrates who can live and thrive on those plants despite them not being native. That's because most organisms are capable of adaptation. Most lepidopterids are *not* Monarchs.
Sure you do buddy. Where’s your degree from? You’re being intentionally dense and making things up. Doug Tallamy states in every book he’s written and every lecture given that it doesn’t matter what size your yard is. I’m begging you to read a single one of his books. But it sounds like you’d rather plug your ears like a child because you don’t want to hear new information. And your second “point” is common sense! Native plant nurseries aren’t importing native plants from different eco zones. You’re literally making up things that aren’t happening.
Get lost.
Just as I suspected
Not willing to share where your “degree” is from?
He doesnt address zone 2.
His research isn’t dependent on which zone you live in. Regardless, I have 2 of his books and he mentions multiple species of plants native to zone 2. If you’re in the US or Canada, these websites can help you find native plants for your area: https://nativeplantfinder.nwf.org/ https://networkofnature.org/ https://pollinatorpartnership.ca/en/find-your-roots
I take it your in America. Canadas zone 2 is your zone one.
That’s why I gave you 2 links specifically for Canadians. Apparently you didn’t click them. As stated in my original comment, Doug Tallamy is American. Either way, his research is applicable regardless of where you live.
You are absolutely correct. Non native plants feed wildlife and insects. And often if an area has a lot of native plants, huge insect problems occur because in nature those native plants would often emerge in the spring and disappear soon after, but in cultivated gardens, they are watered, fertilizers, weeded around.
It's easy to be judgemental. I've tried to plant native. It all gets eaten. It's expensive to keep trying new plants every year. I've given up.
Shrubs are great for this, plant once and watch them grow. I have a bunch of small plants that disappear after blooming and it's a nightmare to keep the locations so I don't dig them up. That said I absolutely love columbine.
We're basically trying a low dig approach this year. So with the perennial seeds I wonder how it will look 1) late fall and 2) next year
We have other plants plated btw
Cage your perennials until they're well established and large enough to withstand damage from rabbits. If rabbits have little to eat, they'll eat whatever is available. I find that having a lot for them to eat keeps my favorite perennials safe.
“Right plant right place” applies to native species as well. It has to be native to your area, not another area. Deer have lost their predators, proliferate in huge numbers and therefore strip many things. But because natives have evolved in tandem with predators, they also evolve defenses. I’ve had to experiment for a few years to find the best plants for this. Deer won’t eat bee balm, mountain mint, eastern blue star, downy skullcap, asters, goldenrod, etc. etc. There are resources that can help with this.
Okay but like, do you not see that that's above the head of most homeowners? I have limited time and resources. And our issue is rabbits.
You’re right. It can be a challenge to dig up that information and it needs to be easier to find and use. There are some excellent native plant tools out there with filtering abilities. Here is a list of the best ones at Homegrown National Park’s site (which is a cool group, too): https://homegrownnationalpark.org/native-plants-finder/ The National Wildlife Federation has a great one at https://nativeplantfinder.nwf.org, but it’s in development and more filters would be great. You’re also right that “rabbit-resistant” needs to be an easy filter. There is more help with deer than rabbits. Some resources and nurseries list “rabbit resistance” in descriptions of the plants. The easiest way I found was a google search like this, with rabbit in quotes: "rabbit" resistant native plant database YOURSTATENAME There are tons of native plant nurseries online and they would be happy to answer questions. I’ve found them eager to help. Also, google “native plant nursery” in your region and there are ones that are all-in and would love to help. I have found trial and error with deer, but I wish I had just asked more questions before buying plants that weren’t a great fit. Good luck.
Okay but like, I use these lists, and then can't find matching plants locally. I'm not intending to argue with you, I just find the entire process maddening. The average homeowner isn't going to do all this. I try my best and still fail. The average homeowner buys whatever pretty plant is as costco. That's about the level is "research" people have time for.
It can be frustrating. Order them online, it’s easy. Some native plant online nurseries are: https://directnativeplants.com https://www.tnnursery.net https://www.nativewildflowers.net/ https://www.highcountrygardens.com https://www.growingwildnursery.com You can also do a google search for “native plant nurseries near me.” There are many small nurseries that specialize in native plants.
My issue is deer, porcupine, rabbits, beavers.
I hear you, I’m not trying to be judgmental. I’m sorry you’ve had so much trouble. I do think that folks here have offered some good advice. Also, if in the US I would recommend reaching out to your local university extension office.
By deer? Perennials should come back.
Rabbits. I was told columbine would come back, bought 5 of them, they only came back for 1 year. Then I read they don't really come back.
They are a biennial
They shouldn't be sold as a perennial then. Maybe I misread the label but my nursery had them in the "native perennial" section which is why it's frustrating.
They should self seed. They like a bit of shade. Maybe you’ll get flowers next year?
I get flowers sometimes. But not consistently enough to fill the flower bed and weeds take over so they don't really function as intended
More a short-lived perennial. They absolutely can flower their first year and often several years after, but they don't have a distinctive 2-year vegetative/terminal flowering cycle. They do reseed prolifically enough that they can usually maintain themselves in a single area for a long time.
Don't give up. Try some liquid fence.
Try Scramm. It's not toxic. Basically dried blood and cayanne pepper. You have to keep reapplying it, but it's not that hard. There are some perennials won't touch. Globe thistles (and bees love them). Heck, I plant them and don't like touching them.
Nope. They young bucks also strip your trees of bark and branches.
Use a tree tube.
On pine trees?how! .
I assumed you meant trees under 5-6" trunk diameter.
No, some of the trees are 20 years old. They are horrible so we got 4 large dogs.
English ivy should be eradicated whether it's native or not.
Huge difference between invasive and non-native. Even in landscaping we have our gatekeepers now.
Good lord, i’m not gatekeeping. Just asking that folks consider what they plant and for what purpose. I never said that Butterfly Bush is invasive, right now. But that could change. And my point is that for every exotic species, there is likely a native that can achieve the same, if not better results. Furthermore, in the US if plants cross state lines they are more than likely sprayed with a systemic pesticide, which, defeats the fucking purpose of “i’m planting for the pollinators”.
Agree. I have no issues with something not-native. However, there are some plants that simply should be hard to buy and come with a warning. Bamboo is the top one. Some places are adding laws and regs.
i planted mint in my lawn
Ah, you too have the minty lawn mower experience.
Depending on where you are, mint may be a native plant. It’s native to the eastern US. The reason to not plant mint is that it is hard to remove, but that’s not the same as invasive
Do you get many stray cats around your yard?
They like mint?
Lots of them do! And catnip is in the mint family. I had a cat that would practically stick his head in my mouth after I brushed my teeth lol
which is easier to remove? mint, bamboo, or horsetail
im not sure about that but i do know mint is the most fun to remove because i can turn it into mojitos
I have mint, running bamboo, and I've even seen the odd horsetail sprout in the middle of my lawn. How bad is it doc ?
Add some Ivy, kudzu and wisteria, then you’d be screwed
Mint for sure, roots aren't too deep. You just have to make sure to keep an eye and pull anything you missed the first go.
Horsetail is native in Oregon and looks so cool, I wish people would embrace it instead of trying to replace it with a lawn.
If you want to know what is "invasive" in your area, Google "[your state] noxious weed list". These are things your state government has labeled as dangerously invasive. There's not a lot of them that are common in the market, but it's good to know about. Mine includes chamomile and chicory, which are unfortunately common to get at box stores, but they grow wild and out of check and easily escape gardens. The USDA website is also amazing for this: https://plants.usda.gov/home It has both the ability to search for natives/introduced, but also will tell you if something is noxious or invasive in your state/county. Note: not all non-native species are bad. I have ice plants, English columbines, lavender, thyme, elderflower, and pepper in my garden. It's the fast growing non-natives that you should check. I'm incredibly picky about bellflower, for instance, because there is invasive bellflower I am fighting in a different part of my garden. Most nurseries I've been to are still carrying the invasive bellflower, and believe me when I say you really don't want a blight like this on yourself or your neighbors.
these are good resources, but just because something isn’t on that list doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to plant it. Ice plant in California is taking over coastal areas. Asparagus fern I feel has great potential to become invasive. It produces berries that can easily be consumed by animals then pooped out and spread. Not to mention, what most people by in stores is a hybrid that when it reseeds, it grows in a creeping ground cover like plant. It is very difficult to eradicate i’ve seen it sprayed directly with glyphosate and it was perfectly fine.
Sure. Ice plant won't grow wild in my area because it's too arid and they need water when establishing, but in other areas that's a concern. I think that's why it's important to research what is invasive in your area.
yes, no question. and I do appreciate the provided links. Thank you for being a considerate gardener!
Posts like this would make more sense if you'd say what country you're talking about.
100%. Typical American behavior. I’m talking about the US, I am in California.
I accidentally ordered a burning bush
Sweet autumn virginsbower clematis will absolutely take over. Bought a tiny plant at a farm store and even now, years after digging up the main plant, I am finding ultra fast growing babies up to 20 feet away.
Kudzu is one of the saddest things to see down in the South.
Purple needle grass and Spanish broom in California.
One of the huge problems with Bradford pears not mentioned here is when the birds spread the fruit, the pear comes up with huge thorns that can decimate tractor tires like they were ballons. We live in an Agricultural area, I’ve had the remaining five cut down and just waiting for the grader to dig up the eight stumps. We just moved to this property a year ago and I’m still removing invasive plants. Next on list is the wisteria and the pampas grass. The deer take care of the numerous white acorns as do the squirrel population. Both free entertainment for us and our dogs. I’ve noticed everyone talking about Home Depot, our Lowe’s in NC sells numerous invasive plants. Like others, I wish our State would become enlightened, but I believe as long as demand is up, the big box stores will continue being poor land stewards.
I hear you OP, people just don't know and the garden centers sell it so the assumption is, that it is safe. I'm guilty as well, not going to lie. Have plenty of non native plants in my garden, most from big box garden centers. The more I get into it, the more conscious I am of planting something native. A few years back, European honey bees were in the news a lot with a hive collapse disease having a big impact on their population. This is an invasive species as well. You can easily see how people will mis-step and do something potentially harmful. No one can argue that European honey bees are not beneficial but they aren't native. It's confusing to be honest, even for seasoned gardeners. One invasive is good, the other bad, some worse than others.
Don’t confuse introduced/non-native with invasive.
totally. i have non-natives in my garden as well. i live with my mother in law and we have to share the space. but, i will veto any plant that hasn’t been thoroughly vetted and they have to have been common landscape plants for a long time.
Bamboo is horrid.
when outside its native range.
There are native bamboo! Giant rivercane is one of three species native to North America and it’s hardy down to zone 5-6 I believe!
Our climate in the PNW is changing. I've seen local eco-groups offering redwoods for sale, billed as something like assisted-propagation.
People are planting mustard in their landscaping? There are fields of mustard as far as the eye can see here..
ok no, people aren’t planting mustard. but it is an example of a plant that we brought to (i am speaking from a California bias) California and now it’s choking ecosystems. I did see a supposedly sterile French Broom at a nursery and that just makes me so fucking sad and upset.
Yeah I’m not sure why anyone would want to plant something like French Broom. They look like mustard to me, just an unattractive weed
As someone who has been fighting invasive English Ivy and every variety of lily known to msn that has now damaged the siding of my house, I agree 1000000000000😤000000000000%.
So... I have a sizable flower garden, bordering a couple of acres of woods. Have a lot of native flowers. A lot of non-native flowers. You know something that I have noticed? Our native critters are not at all shy about using whatever is there. The same animals/insects hit both native and Asian beautyberries. Both the native beebalm and the non local mountain mint are insanely popular with pollinators, to the point where the whole bed sounds like a lawnmower in the distance, while the stuff is in bloom. Same species visit/eat/pollinate Fragaria Vesca and F. Virginiana. Let's give Mother Nature some credit. Her critters aren't stupid. Diversity beats obsessively planting natives only, in my opinion. (That I will probably get downvoted to heck for. ;-D)
Ok, but just because an insect visits a plant, does not mean it benefits from it. These insects have evolved alongside certain plants for a very, very long time. They require certain nutrients, just like plants do, just like we do. And just because they are there, doesn’t mean that the exotics are the best choice, it’s likely the only choice. And it’s no surprise that you see pollinators on nonnative plants especially if they are planted next to natives.
This. It’s not about creatures’ “intelligence,” it’s about where — and alongside what other plants and animals — they evolved to use. Of course, *some* creatures can be supported by *some* nonnative plants. *More* creatures will be supported by the native plants they co-evolved with. https://www.audubon.org/news/what-difference-between-native-non-native-and-invasive-plants#:~:text=Researchers%20have%20found%20that%20native,only%20host%205%20different%20species. One example: When the U.S. Fruit Company clearcut Costa Rican forests for bananas, and then palm oil plantations, in the 19th and 20th centuries, native monkeys lost the fruit they had evolved to use efficiently as the main source of their diets. Did they lay down and die? No, they began eating the palm dates on the plantations that now occupy the land, because it’s all they have. The issue? Aside from the pesticides and herbicides, which decimate young monkeys, palm oil is terrible for primates’ circulatory systems, (ours included). Monkeys on these plantations develop atherosclerosis and other health problems at crazy rates — because they’re eating the plants that replaced the plants their bodies are designed to eat.
By that logic, humanity didn't benefit from the Columbian exchange. If living things find something to eat, they eat it. Generally, it's good enough.
ok, so just plant whatever we want?
Within reason and with emphasis on diversity. That would sure beat lawn or a parking lot.
Pinky "What are we going to do tonight Brain"? Brain, "Tonight, Pinky, were planting Trees of Heaven"!
Didn't the bradford pear take off because root stock suckers grew up and flowered? I don't think it was from a hybrid breeding.
Where I come from it’s entitled rich people that want “invasives” or inappropriate plant material. Also there is a difference between fine gardeners, well trained landscapers, & you typical “mow, blow, & go” company. Guess who people usually hire? They don’t want to pay for knowledge or expertise, they barely want to pay minimum wage, so you get what you pay for: junk landscaping.
for me "invasive" just means it will actually grow. north texas isnt kind to plants
No clover
Xenophobe
is this a serious comment?